You'll remember that in wookie culture, using your claws against someone is forbidden. You are deemed a "Madclaw", then banished. Which might explain him being alone on khofar.
Also, I think Indarra killed the witches when she freed him- cutting them off from their bodies. Their minds are in Kelnacca's mind- the reason for the witch symbols all over his hut.
@@chuck-dee I agree. I don't think she would have looked so crestfallen after Kelnacca woke up if she had just knocked them out. Plus she instructed Sol to retrieve the girls and he ran right passed all the witch bodies and didn't even attempt to help anyone as the building literally fell down around them. She totally killed them.
Seriously, fighting a Wookie is scary enough, but giving him a saber as well? Downright terrifying. That's like running into a bear in the woods... but the bear knows how to use a machete.
And then you disarm him, and realised that's actually worse. Kelnacca's deadlier with a blade, but Sol stood a better chance fighting him armed than unarmed.
I can't stand how this sub par show had gaslighted what seems like all the fans into believing this is how jedi behave and show them being utter morons.
24:18 "Indara's a total hardass, but you know what, she's not wrong." You know, after this episode, a thought has developed in my head. Maybe the by-the-book, rules & regulations, procedure & protocol, Code-to-the-letter, giant-stick-up-the-arse Jedi like Yord, Mace Windu, Luminara etc...kinda had a point. I'm struggling to think of one time we've seen a Jedi go off-book that hasn't had major consequences in the long run. Sol & Torbin (mostly Sol) both go off-book and it results in the death of an entire coven, with Mae resurfacing 16 years later as an assassin with a vendetta against the Jedi. Dooku goes off-book repeatedly while he's part of the Order, and then after he leaves, he turns to the Dark Side and ends up helping to start the Clone Wars. Qui-Gon goes off-book and insists Anakin be trained as a Jedi even though he's too old. Then Anakin himself goes off-book time & time again, ultimately turning to the Dark Side and helping facilitate the near-total destruction of the Jedi Order and the rise of the Empire. The Galaxy, already battered by 3 years of war, is now subjected to 24 years of totalitarian dictatorship as a result. Maybe the rules about emotional attachments and not letting your personal feelings cloud your judgement are in the Jedi Code for a reason.
To further prove your point. Jedi Master Sifo-Dyas foresaw the Jedi being wiped out so he went off the books and put into motion the formation of the clone army. Bringing about the very outcome that he tried to prevent.
Not so sure about that - as the "orthodox" Jedi seemed to also be unable to emphatize with emotions or attachments. I mean Yoda's advice to Anakin probably made things worse, if anything, as it sounded like the Jedi do not care about his feelings.
@@tucmakukla The rules and regulations definitely had there part to play in making the situation worse. But rash individual action was never the solution. The only real way to fix the problems the Jedi had was evaluation of the rules and principles by the council and overhaul them to fix the problems. But that would never have happened with how stuck in there ways they were. The reforms would have to be drastic as well, another reason they would never have happened. So because of their inability to evaluate and self improvement there fall was inevitable.
@@zerolegacy7821First is getting the Jedi out of Politics it is the reason that they made the wrong call with Ahsoka Tano. There main focus was not if they believed that she did what she was accused of but how it would politically look for supporting her until she was convicted. I guess the concept of guilty until proven innocent is not a thing with the Jedi which I would also change. Next thing is stop being an enforcement branch for the senate. It turned the population of the republic against them during the war and made them turn against their philosophy of being peace keepers instead of soldiers. Work for the people instead of the government and keeping the government in check for the peoples behalf. Which would turn them from an enforcement branch to an investigative branch. Next I would change the whole no emotion concept. Because that is not how sentient creatures function. And one of the biggest reasons Plalpatine was able to corrupt Anikan like he did was because Anikan did not have a father figure that he could go to for counseling. He did that with Yoda who basically just said deal with it because it is something a Jedi has to overcome on their own. The reason according to George Lucas that the battle at the end of Phantom Menace is called Duel of the Fates is because it changes every one’s fate including Anikans. If Qui-Gon had survived he would have been that father figure that Anikan needed but instead he got Obi-wan who has said multiple times that he has failed Anikan. Next the arrogance that the Jedi council have about knowing everything. “If it is not in the library it does not exist.” - Madam Jocasta in Episode 2 Attack of the Clones. “I do not believe the Sith could have returned without us knowing about it.” -Mace Windu -Episode 1 The Phantom Menace. Next would be allowing Jedi to take time off from being a Jedi. Which should be mandatory as there entire world and world view revolves around their role. Which has resulted in a feedback loop and why they are so Dogmatic. During this time they can just be people. I would also change the fact that Jedi do not know who their relatives are. Which will allow them to have a broader world view, give them more advice options and actually allow them a support structure for when that choose to leave if they do. It would also allow them somewhere to go for the leave. There are around 10,000 Jedi during the clone wars I think things will continue to function if they are allowed temporary leave and do not get involved in fighting wars. Jedi should be taught how control their emotions instead of being encourage to suppress them. Because suppressing negative emotions like Anger, fear, jealousy and so forth does not solve the problem. It just pushes it down for now. And when emotions and trauma are not dealt with they often fester and become a bigger problem. It is also important to remember that the Jedi were more open with their rules and regulations (many not all) at what is called the high republic era. When the Jedi were at their best. That is all I can think of right now but I will add on if I think of something else.
I literally came into this episode expecting Aniseya to say they couldn't take either of the girls and for Indara to be the hardass "Yes we effing are" type. I'm so glad I was wrong.
Gonna be honest, I think I might have done the same as Sol with him "accidentally" killing Aniseya. Think about it, he's seeing this chick using some creepy-looking force magic, then looks to "Osha" and sees her disappearing also into a black sand-like smoke and freaks out. Thinking she's like "killing" her or something, so his only immediate instinct is to "take out the person doing the spell casting" and kills the mother. It's just such a sad situation that STILL just had so many things that were misinterpreted.
It also shows how this regret stayed with him for the rest of his life until now. It's probably exactly why he's so hesitant to pull out his saber now unless he has no choice.
I like how this ties back to Sol's introduction in the show when he is teaching the Youngling class. His first words in the Acolyte are, "Your eyes can deceive you. We must not trust them." It was a lesson he learned the hard way
Also the fact that Mae in the ship before mentioned her mother said "everyone must be sacrificed" , so sol may have thought she was trying to do the ritual forcefully
I'm pretty sure Mother Aniseya made Torbin's desire to go home unbearable. She screwed up when she mind controlled him. Going shadowform in front of a Jedi is a huge mistake, they are trained to kill that stuff instinctivly. Both sides screwed up in EP7.
I’ve heard sooo many people be like “why would Sol do that” and I’m laughing like seriously she turned into shadow form in front of him why the hell wouldn’t his instincts be to kill it.
@@scubasteve2903 Exactly. All he saw, out of context but still, was that the adults were harsh to the girls both verbally and physically, they were clearly about to perform some kind of ritual, Mae's misquote of saying they had to be sacrificed, her turning into smoke and then "Osha" starting to fade away. He legit thought she was about to kill this child.
Honestly in that moment Sol looks straight at Mae and once he saw that Mae was starting to get affected (as in it looked like she was turning to smoke to) he took action to make sure she is safe, Mother Aniseya along with Mother Kroli elevated that situation themselves and I’m just amazed how so few see that
@@scubasteve2903no, they are still correct. Sol being a religious zealot doesn’t justify the killing of “witches” his entire arc this episode is damning the witches as dangerous with zero evidence and acting on it despite Indara saying “dude, your are being prejudiced with no evidence”
@@Scottyjscizzle They went for nuance both Jedi and Witches taking drastic action based on partial information and a massacre happened. Messing with Torbin put Sol on high alert and going shadowform next to a paranoid Jedi is begging to get merc'd.
Torbin was mind controlled as a padawan and it traumatized him so badly that he spent the next SIXTEEN YEARS meditating so hard and so strongly that Mae couldn't even physically touch him. Only his extreme guilt brought him out of it. Nice little detail.
Not just mind controlled, but he was the one that jumped the gun and kicked off everything that followed. Both the deaths but the cover-up that followed. Not being able to even confess that to anyone until Mae came along.
@@coreyschleder8418True. Though I meant more that his greatest weakness became his greatest strength. When we are introduced to Torbin he is portrayed as a master jedi with immense psychic strength....and we just learned it was because he was a mentally weak padawan who got an entire culture destroyed and has been trying to make up for it ever sense. It was a cool way to tie in how he was introduced.
@@zammis17ify Sol also lifted Osha with ease in episode 1 and used several Force pull to mess with Qimir in episode 5. He probably practiced a lot because he couldn't lift two halves of a relatively light bridge (compared to lots of heavy shits other Jedi have been shown able to life/move) with two little girls.
@@elnar71 Very true. And if you want to take this all one step further...Kelnacca was mind controlled and hurt the ppl on his team against his will. He then banished himself to the most remote outpost all by himself. They were all heavily influenced by what happened and it's cool to go back and rewatch the first few episodes with this new knowledge.
thank you for your fair reactions!! i soooo exhausted with whiners and complainers who no longer discuss stuff or add insights.... you guys rock! i needed you both to talk about this show!❤😊
} Mae MISS-quoted Mother Aniseya, she did NOT say anything about sacrificing people at all, she was talking about letting go of wants and moving past fear, to let go of fear, that was she meant by "sacrifice". } The fire spread through the 100+ year old wiring in the walls all the way to the old power generator room and the old equipment exploded } Torbin made A LOT of mistakes and misjudgements based on his own fear and mistrust } Sol made A LOT of assumptions with little evidence, and he acted out of emotions, acted out of fear } They were told NO by the Jedi council, they were all supposed to leave, they should have let it go and should have LEFT } Aniseya turned into "shadow" to teleport her and Mae to a safe place, Sol assumed it was an attack and reacted, but striking with his saber was an over-reaction on his part ) Mother Korril acted out of fear, anger and mistrust of the Jedi, she needlessly escalated things in several ways. } Indara severed the connection the witches had to Kelnacca to mind puppet him, but severing that connection killed them unintentionally; she didn't know that would happen. Ever see The Matrix? It's like abruptly unplugging 50 people from the Matrix, which results in death
Damn what a serie of fuck ups.🙃 Sol: let his prejudice over the coven bring the Jedi to meddle and investigate them.😐 Torbin: gets so afraid after being mind controlled than goes ballistic over the possibility of leaving the place using Osha and Mae as evidence of a vergence.😳 Toril: also goes ballistic. Inciting Mae to attack Osha and she was likely the one who put the fortress into self destruction mode. Her smile while she disappeared was most telling.😳 Mae: she did started a fire but lost control of it and she also incited the witches to fight.😲 Aniseya: she was way too passive and lost control of both Mae and Torill, and the coven in the process. 😳 Sol: fucks up again by confusing Aniseya's gesture as one of attacking while Torbin and Korill are facing each other.😨 Kelnacca: learns nothing from Torbin's failure and end up mind controlled. Forcing Torbin and Sol to hold their hits until Indara arrives to undo the mind control, killing the dozens of witches that were controlling them.😨 Indara: After being the voice of reason before and right after Sol finally comes to his senses she decides the best course of action is to hide the evidence and use Osha as a excuse?😨 And Let's not forget that Toril likely rescued Mae and led her to her revenge path with the Sith Qmir. After all there was no one else on the planet.😱
In Kelnacca's defense though, the ENTIRE coven seems to have been needed to actually even control him. That's some insane mental defense to the point where the entire coven needed to work to control him, not actually being that he didn't "learn" anything lol.
Thanks to Kyle, Bendu and Nerd Chronic! 🌑 The "we must be sacrificed" misquote little 'Mae' conveyed to 'Indara' and 'Sol' had a huge impact. They literally thought the girls were in mortal danger. 'Aniseya' actually said, "It is about sacrificing a *part* of ourselves". 🔸 It's also wild to learn that 'Sol' was imposing his own wants (to have a Padawan... even though he might not be ready) onto the situation. He even almost lost his temper with 'Indara' at the end. Looked like he was set to hit her. That shows a very un-Jedi-like conflict that adds to his motivations. 🔸 And don't get me started on 'Torbin' being all immature from boredom and homesickness. 'Indara' turned out to be the most reasonable one of all. 🔸 I want a second season!!!
@@zerolegacy7821 It's a master's prerogative to implement the training style they deem most beneficial to their pupil. So, I disagree with your assertions (and attitude) and I don't have time address them all... which you're not likely in a position to appreciate, currently.
Highly recommend checking out Leslye Headlands Nerdist interview about this ep, she confirms the vergence was on Brendok before the witches and is connected to the mining facility. The witches used it to hide and amplify their power.
I never thought I'd live in a world that I'd get to see a Wookie Lightsaber fight!🤯💚 Crazy! And Ditto Thank God these have been released at for My Time zone 9:00 if not it would be 3:00am! 😂 Thanks as always guy's 🤘
Something to keep in mind with Kelnacca was before he was killed by the Stranger he was tracing the symbol of the clan upon the walls of his hut. I think a piece of the witches remained latched in his head, which makes me wonder if anything might come of his death down the road, be a season two or some novel/comic down the road.
The start of the fire is such a child thing to do. Doing something, it escalated into something bad, they can't fix it and then run to a parent. Everyone did this as a child, maybe not with fire but with playing with vases or hitting a sibling and the sibling starts crying.
Torbin and Sol both made mistakes but same is true with the witches. Sol, especially, messed up but to be fair, to him, Aniseya's actions very much looked like an attack and she never gave Sol any reason to believe she wouldn't cause harm. The last time she used her powers, it was to possess Torbin. A woman turning into seriously creepy black mist and doing the same to her child, I don't blame Sol for misinterpreting the situation, but he did still killed someone who wasn't attacking him and he knows it. And honestly I have no sympathy left for the witches after this episode except for Aniseya because she wasn't going to take Osha's choice away from her. What they did to Kelnacca, making him scar a Padawan and commit a Wookiee cultural sin, was also really fucked up. Torbin was reckless and Sol was heavily projecting onto others but I get them both in this episode. They both want to serve a greater good (which is something I feel Jedi should want to do). Torbin was frustrated and then scared and Sol had some valid concerns about the safety of the girls. And while Torbin shouldn't have taken off, things were escalating to violence before he and Sol even arrived. Koril encouraged Mae to get angry and violent and that led to the fire and everything that followed. Things were already underway and the Jedi don't enter until after Sol senses Osha was in danger. I think that's important to acknowledge.
Loved the episode, and I love this show, but my god the two twins standing there doing nothing and reaching out to each other while yelling each other's names was corny as hell. My wife and I randomly shout "MAE!" and "OSHA!" to each other from different parts of the house now 😂
I totally called after episode 3 that Mae only intended to set the book on fire and only dropped the lamp after the burning book got away from her. The fire spreading into the 100+ year old wiring in the old mining facility explains why the fire got so out of hand. AndKyle, you totally called the whole tense standoff getting out of hand, somebody gets trigger happy and everyone fights scenario. I was just surprised that it was Sol who was first to lose his cool. Indara was the MVP of this episode, and I'm glad they finally showed her as a fuller character.
Im sorry but thats not how wirering is affected by fire. Most of this old Mining building is Made Out of stone. Mai just continues to have a flick flack Charakter. She wanted to kill Oasha because they other mother Made her angry? Seriously?
@@FloundFahrdienst"that's not how wiring is affected by fire" in a show about space wizards? Okey dokey. It must really piss you off that there is sound in space, not to mention single-biome planets, or the fact that every planet, asteroid, and moon seems to operate in 1-G, right? And no, Mae didn't actually want to kill Osha, and that's the point. Kids say stupid shit they didn't actually mean or don't understand all the time, especially when they're mad.
@@benjaminportilla9297 If you go by that logic than they can do anything in this and you dont care. Thats fine if you watch something like that. You do you. Regarding Mae and kids doing stipid shit. Yes, yes they do but I have never EVER in my entire life seen a kid saying or wanting to murder someone. Even kids know what that means. So no I dont buy that
@@FloundFahrdienst clearly you haven't worked with children, eh? I have and I've heard kids say to their closest friends or siblings that they want to kill each other on multiple occasions. As for not caring, sure it bugs me when the story tellers do stuff that doesn't obey the laws of physics because it suits the story they want to tell, all I'm saying is that this isn't reality. For all you know, the materials used to insulate conduit and wiring in an unmaintained structure centuries or more old may have degraded into something extremely unstable and volatile over time, allowing the fire to travel quickly through the walls to the gigantic and equally unstable generator. What fluid was inside that lamp or in the pipes feeding it, and what are its combustion properties? Who knows, and the point I was making is that things like that are really not that important to the makers of Star Wars, and they never have been.
@@benjaminportilla9297 You work as an educator or teacher I asume? You have it rough, because holy those are some really fucked up children you gotta deal with. Now Im curious, were you bothered by the bombers and bombs in the last jedi? Because thats one of my prime examples in regards to this topic
They really dug into his fears and impatience and made him susceptible to his impulses. Everyone feared the worst of everyone else, and didn’t communicate their truths. All good intentions from both sides, and no one wins
I think Indara did the mental equivalent to breaking their necks. Carrie even did the movement with the head when her character kill them, something that shows better than ever how terrifing the Jedi can be as since childhood sharped living weapons, to the point not even the witches, with all their powers, are a real menace to them. The episode made me think a lot about Path of Deceit, being some kind of reverse take of that novel. That time, the Jedi were decimated by the world they went into. This one, the people in Brendok were the ones suffering the Jedi. At the end, like Aniseya, everything is about power and who uses it
I love that almost every character had their part to play in this disaster. Really the only characters not at fault are Kelnacca, Osha, and you can also make a case for Mae. A parent should never encourage a child to make rash action on their own. As they do not have the critical or forward thinking to think through such decisions. And the fallout for this tragedy is still playing out, Sol’s Jedi team including his padawan would not have died if he did not play his part In causing this problem.
They needed Yord on the mission. He would insist all the ignition keys to speeders are safely locked up when not in use and that proper procedure be observed at all time. Also he wouldn't let Torbin or Sol leave without having them properly steam their robes. And Mother Anisseya trying to mind control him would get her stuck in a huge rule book.
I like both of your positivity, Star Wars Theory called it an abomination. I’m somewhat in the middle like Star Wars Meg. I understand why Sol killed Aniseya, she suddenly turned into a smoke demon and looked to be erasing Mae. From his perspective it looked bad. She was also very hostile towards them instead of being up front about letting Osha go with them. People seem to be confused how the fire spread, it seems to be an electrical fire. The fire spreading along the floor was the oil from the lamp, not sure how Theory missed that as he said the floor was just burning randomly. The twins aren’t a vergence like Anakin but the product of one. I think the actual vergence is either the hole or the tree.
I don't think they are going to give answers. When Indara talks to Sol she explains how he gives answers to sooth someone's mind, she prefers to let her padawan find the answers themselves so that they understand. I think the show is supposed to be like that.
The Jedi don’t steal children. Sees children in woods w/Mother, immediately/relentlessly makes excuses to take at least one for himself, children’s entire community/family dies, and fellow Jedi help to cover it up so he gets a/the child. Seems legit. 🤔
Love watching these two best friends react and discuss The Acolyte. I hope to catch y'all in the next live stream. Bittersweet the finale is nigh, but we shall "stand at the ready!"
Super ugly situation with the blame mostly on Sol, but there are still two unanswered pieces that make me hope there's another season or a heck of a long finale: did Aniseya actually have a nefarious, Plagueis-like purpose for creating the twins, or did she and Koril just want kids (who would then double as successors to their coven)? And then...literally everything about Qimir. One thing I love about this episode, besides how it deconstructs Qui-Gon (albeit indirectly right up until the "good intentions" line) is how it sets Sol as a foil to Qimir. Both just sorta want a pupil for selfish reasons. Now that they find themselves in this situation after two truly ugly paths to getting there, their future actions will now determine everything (and I'm not holding out hope for Sol's ending, if the next era being known as FALL OF THE JEDI, not to mention the Order being the cocky shitheads they are in the prequels, is any indication).
I'm firmly of the opinion Sol was defending Osha from weird sacrificial majicks when he sabered Aniseya (at least in his head) before realizing just how bad he screwed up. Koral is still out there somewhere, possibly Qimir's master or rival. Someone had to teach Plaguis how to manipulate midichlorians...
@rohirrim8488 - Agree with you on all counts. Sol definitely thought he was protecting the girls, not realizing Anaseya's (sp?) intentions. He seems to be triggered by something and driven to protect them at all costs. I get the sense it's connected to some sort of trauma in his backstory. I also believe that Mother Korill is Qimir's Master. Whether she's Sith or just Sith aligned, I'm not sure. I like the idea of her working with Plagueis on using The Force to create life, though. My guess I'd that Qimir is likely an early Knight of Ren, which is likely analogous to the idea of a Sith Acolyte. I assume the Sith Lord here is who ends up being Plagueis' Master.
The witches believe that the Force is a Thread. Master Indara cut the thread and all of their lives left them because they were all tapped into the same thread.
This is why you should be open minded when meeting people from a another culture or at least don't judge / interfere with the way they do things. Cause if you do, you get 50 + bodies in an old mining facility on a strange planet
😊 Loved your conversation about this episode. Also did you notice the echo of episode six, when Sol was talking to himself asking why he didn't see that villain's intentions. It's like a repeating trauma for him, he keeps misinterpreting everyone's intentions. The family dynamics of the twins, their mother, Qimir... even Mae says it's because his mind is clouded. Most of all, he misunderstands other so much, because he never understands his own intentions. Like Qimir said, I've accepted my darkness, what have you done with yours? He kept forcing his answer on Torbyn, then his viewpoint on Osha... even to Mae, last episode, he ties her down and says: you're going to listen... We kind of have to ask... has he changed? Has he grown?... Can't wait for the next episode :))
Sol also mistakes Mae for Osha and he reacts because he thinks Anyseia is doing something bad to her. However it is not clear what she was trying to do turning into dark mist
Sol Saber whipping Kelnacca in the face with his lightsaber hilt isn’t something I needed. It’s like that time Vader did it, I think it was in a Thrawn comic?
The word "sacrifice" has a plethora of different meanings The Jedi jumped the gun & never established what kind of sacrifice was required. The Jedi were wrong for interfering outside the republics juridiction... Now I see why Torbin drank the poision.⚗️🧪 George Lucus once said: "Star Wars is geared towards 12 year olds." It has always been a level of corniness, bad acting & writing involved since "A New Hope". However I don't see/hear 12 year olds online complaining only "adults" I respect everyones opinion but I have to always be mindful of what George Lucus said...
And to add to the Jedi's misunderstanding of Mae's explanation of the Ascension: she's 8! An 8 year old isn't a reliable resource for information on the intricacies of religion or governmental structures (what was with Indara trying to 'catch' Mae in a cultural inconsistency when she said she and Osha would lead the coven? Indara is an ADULT why is she trying to debate cultures with an 8 year old??). The Jedi should know better than to base their understanding of a group on the misquote of a child. Imagine if a child was asked about Christianity and they said 'the church says I have to take up my own cross in order to follow Jesus' (which isn't even a misquote) - should the adult assume that child is saying in order to be a Christian everyone will be killed by being willingly crucified for real? Or should they maybe do a bit more research and ask, idk, and adult what that means.
I’m beginning to think not only are we seeing the slow demise of the Jedi…they’re also showing us the beginnings of why Anakin was created…the Force is starting to sicken.
I put this much more on Sol than on Torbin. Torbin, though a complete idiot, he is a padawan who was possessed by a which like the day before. Sol on the other hand is an experienced Knight at this point, if not a master (Indara introduced him and Kalnacca as her colleagues, implying same rank). Never at one point did he try to see things differently, and he repeatedly went against his orders. He is doing the exact same thing now 16 years later. This is on Sol
Sol's attack on Aniseya, while she was changing her physical state to protect Mae, came from a place of 'fear' and 'attachment', which are paths to the darkside, as opposed to the calmness and peace of the light. To Mae, she saw her unarmed mother murdered. Sol's desire to train Osha clouded his mind. He should have listened to Indara and the Jedi council. As a Jedi knight, the responsibility of what occurred is on him alone.
*~There are but 2 reactor channels I've been anticipating, and Kyle Katarn with the Bendu is one of them.~* I share your appreciation of a mystery in SW, and not wanting it all spoon-fed. - I am SO freakin' glad you compared the death of Luke to the deaths of the Sisters. That was but ONE of my theories. - Aniseya was, in my opinion, about to channel herself into Mae, but got gutted by Sol. Gotta say, Mother Korril *DID* assume an attack stance, Torbin yoinked out his saber, Aniseya went all gassy, so Sol...death jabbed. - ndara and Kelnacca are (technically?) the only one with relatively clean hands...until they went along with *The SECRET.* - t's a rarity, but the Council was *actually right* in their decision.
In Koril's defense, the Jedi did just break into their home for a SECOND time and were demanding answers to things they had no right to - and when Mae ran into the courtyard, Sol was the one to reach toward her: something Jedi do when they are using the Force to push/pull/affect someone. Seeing someone reach toward her daughter (the one who begged her not to let the Jedi take her) of course is going to make her go on the defensive - but she DIDN'T attack, she simply went into a guarding stance. Seeing what happened when Koril dissipated into smoke, I think Mother Aniseya was just trying to teleport herself and Mae away to Osha - nothing sinister at all, but when a militant force is trained that any sudden movement is someone trying to kill you, they act with deadly force instinctively. Which is so screwed up (see: the real world and cops killing people of color even when they did nothing wrong/weren't attacking, they just moved and the cop assumed they were doing something dangerous, so shot them dead and now an innocent person has been killed and people will blame the one murdered for just 'not complying well enough') and is 100% on Sol for interpreting every single thing the coven did as evil rather than taking the time to understand them - he made his bigoted judgement of them with no info, and went on the attack immediately.
Guys i love you so much. Even this show has so many flaws and could be much better, i still dig it and I am happy, that you are one of few channels who does not just hate. Many other channels cant even udnerstand why Torbin should have guilt, even why Kelnaca? We know wookies dont use claws in fight, if they do they are expeled from tribe, plus he almost massacred his fellow jedi.
So..... can we talk about the fact that Sol could've easily lifted both girls to safety using the force..... instead of holding the bridges.... etc etc.... **cough**
a series of bad decisions, assumptions, impulsivity and emotional responses. mother anasyia buried the lede but even if she announced osha could go with the jedi i don't think mother koril would've reacted well. i love sol though. he's so flawed. lee jung-jae is giving a great performance. i do think torbin was even more reactive because of his mind fuckery he experienced so he reacted in haste. it pushed him to desperation.
Sol is becoming a huge favorite Jedi for me the more I get of him, and Torbin really surprised me with his lightsaber skills, he had Anakins move down!
Inara and Sol told the Council (and Osha) the truth like Obi-Wan told Luke about Vader killing his father- from a certain point of view. I don't think all the witches are dead, because Mae has to get off the planet somehow. The witches either own or have access to a ship to be living on this abandoned planet.
8:10 Sol is totally that tabletop player that put ranks into Investigation skills and is flexing them now that an opportunity has presented itself. I don't think the witches died when Inara yanked their Force IP from Kelnaca's brain server. More likely they passed out and later the fire claimed them. It's not like Sol or Osha had time to stop and check for a pulse.
Sol really screwed up here, but he definitely earned major badass points for straight-up punching an angry Wookiee in the face. Interesting that the two who were mind controlled are the ones who sent themselves into isolation afterwards.
26:35: We also see how Qui Gonn, despite fully sympathizing with Shmi and Anakin early on didn’t immediately commit to freeing Anakin. Like he said, “I didn’t come here to free slaves.” If he was like baby Sol, he would’ve been like, slavery is terrible. Let’s free everyone now. L
Things to be cleared up next week (1) Why Torbin wanted to get back to Coruscant so badly? (2) How Qirmir got involved in this? (You don't recognize me; do you?) and (3) How & why Qirmir got his scar? - and (my guess) they're all related.
I actually like this episode a lot. It teaches my favourite moral lesson: the road to hell is paved with good intentions. But to be honest with you, the episode lost me when Torbin stormed to the Witch's fortress... to do what exactly? Take on all the witches? Kidnap the kids? Was he sooooo homesick he would assault witches, which goes against everything he had been taught? Sorry, I am not just buying it. If there were some scenes, when it was made clear he was still under influence of Anaseas's spell and that's why he got obsessed with leaving the planet, I could understand it. But as it is... Also, loved Indara - everything she did was correct... Until she started to cover for Sol and she prevented him from revealing the truth to the Jedi council. I guess, her killing all that witches could be seen as pretty dark.
I think it's more nuanced than that: the Jedi WERE wrong, but they had 'good' intentions. They BELIEVED the girls were in danger - but they were wrong in that assumption which led them to becoming hostile and attacking the coven. They didn't become aggressive out of malicious intent, but the effect was still the same: good intentions don't cancel out the damage done.
Something I love is how Sol's biggest mistake, killing the girls' mother, ties back to his introduction in the first episode. Sol's first words onscreen are the famous "Your eyes can deceive you, you cannot trust them." And in this episode, we see him make a terrible mistake by trusting only what he saw. Brendock as a whole is a complete tragedy where each side let their fears control them rather than let cooler heads prevail. Indara urges her team to be cautious when dealing with the coven, and Mother Aniseya warns against using violence against the Jedi. Both are ignored and as a result the twins' entire lives were upended and an entire community is wiped out
I would love a padawan Sol book, as there’s definitely something going on with him. Why does he want a padawan so much, he sees abuse in the kid’s upbringing does he have trauma himself?
So hyped to watch with you guys! I thought this ep was beautiful and tragic. I’ve been very impressed with Koganada’s work in this series. Sol did basically everything wrong, Torbin was a spoiled, petulant child, but Indara was the adult in the room. And we assume Kelnacca was pretty good too, what happened wasn’t his fault. I love Aniseya as a character so much - flawed, but loves deeply and has much wisdom. Jodie Turner-Smith really needs to be Storm in the MCU. Her performance was incredible.
Indeed. Jodie Turner-Smith should, and more. She's way impressive. Beautiful, graceful, talented...she should be way more known. I truly felt for 'Aniseya'.
This episode talks about each person's desires and the resulting prejudice of seeing what they want to see, and that was the message that ran through the entire episode. Tolvin was young and energetic and had a strong desire to succeed due to his background from the outskirts, so he wanted a bigger mission than exploring a remote planet, but the witch stirred his mind and released his restrained desires, leading him to act more impulsively from then on. Sol's feelings of deprivation and slight jealousy over his relative lack of a Padawan gradually drove him to judge and act on situations as he wished. After this incident, the two Jedi who were mentally controlled by the witch, Sol, who experienced catastrophe, and Indara, who unintentionally massacred a group of witches, each seem to have lived through great aftereffects.
I'm just glad we finally got the truth. Now, I want to know what happened to Koril. She wasn't in that group of women that Indara cast out (I also don't think she killed them, I think they were just unconscious, but then the fire killed them). I think Koril had to be the one that taught Qimir about the power of two. Can't wait till next week!
There are still questions, I think there's a third party involved. The fate of Mother Koril, what happened to the witches (I really don't think they died just because of the possession ritual, it feels like there's something more to it), who was the cloaked figure with the witches in Chapter 3, the origin of the twins... And, considering we still don't know how Qimir is related to all this, I wouldn't be surprised if his master is involved in it all, making everything worse for both witches and jedi.
Of course you have to look at the scene - Koril raised her weapon looking like she was about to strike and then Torbin ignited his saber and then Mae showed up and Aniseya used her power causing her and Mei to appear to be disintegrating and Sol, who thought at that time it was Osha, thought that Aniseya was killing Osha and struck. It all happens so fast. Koril should not have engaged and Sol was acting in what he thought was defense of Osha. A lost of fucking up was happening.
I think the witches mind control enhanced Torbin's fear and desire to go home. That's the best explanation for his irrational behavior. Why else would a Padawan disobey their master and head off on that speeder.
Maybe Sol is overzealous or impatient to get a padawan, but I get the feeling that there's something more than that. I wonder if he was a little older than usual when he went to the order, like Osha. Maybe old enough to experience some serious trauma and develop deep-seated anger issues.
The "more than that" is his prejudices against anyone not using the Force the way the Jedi say it should be used. Everything the coven was doing *must* be "dark" because it doesn't fit the Order's established views. It also doesn't help that Mae misquoted her mother ("everyone must sacrifice part of themselves" vs. "everyone must be sacrificed"). It's also echoed by Qimir's insistence that a Jedi would probably call him a Sith, because they only see things in black and white (or to use SW terminology, dark and light). "Only a Sith deals in absolutes," said the last truly great Jedi of the Order. Yet here, on the verge of an era called FALL OF THE JEDI, the Jedi are dealing in absolutes. Aniseya calls it: this kind of BS (repeated 100 years later) is what leads to their ultimate failure. I really can't wait to see how Rey rebuilds the Jedi as an organization. You can't just put stain remover on something that goes this deep; it's gotta be completely changed.
The arrogance of breaking into someone’s home and then being surprised when they defend themselves. Also, even if Osha wanted to be a Jedi. Children don’t get to run off with random strangers. Sol was so out of line. You do not have a connection with a child that you don’t know. All of this was very creepy.
The show’s message is that we need to accept the differences of others and not force our worldview on them. If we don’t, it will only lead to fear, anger, hatred, and loss. I sympathize with Torbin because I had to move to different homes during my youth. It pained me so much that I wished my family and I never moved at all. The Jedi may be flawed. However, the High Republic stories show how the Jedi are still doing their best to help others and accept them for who they are. The Jedi are the only faction that even try to make the Galaxy a better place. They rarely received a single thanks or sense of appreciation while doing so. However, when the Jedi are all gone following Order 66, the people of the Galaxy realized how wrong they were and grew to appreciate the Jedi over time.
You'll remember that in wookie culture, using your claws against someone is forbidden. You are deemed a "Madclaw", then banished. Which might explain him being alone on khofar.
Also, I think Indarra killed the witches when she freed him- cutting them off from their bodies. Their minds are in Kelnacca's mind- the reason for the witch symbols all over his hut.
That's not a bad thought...you're on to something@@chuck-dee
@@chuck-dee I agree. I don't think she would have looked so crestfallen after Kelnacca woke up if she had just knocked them out.
Plus she instructed Sol to retrieve the girls and he ran right passed all the witch bodies and didn't even attempt to help anyone as the building literally fell down around them.
She totally killed them.
Seriously, fighting a Wookie is scary enough, but giving him a saber as well? Downright terrifying. That's like running into a bear in the woods... but the bear knows how to use a machete.
Not only that but the bear also has magic I think even Sol said shit lol
And then you disarm him, and realised that's actually worse.
Kelnacca's deadlier with a blade, but Sol stood a better chance fighting him armed than unarmed.
I can't stand how this sub par show had gaslighted what seems like all the fans into believing this is how jedi behave and show them being utter morons.
It's like running into a bear, but the bear also knows martial arts ...Tekken anyone? (😂)
I think Torbin was still screwed up by the mother's manipulation - she had amplified his desire to go home. It ended badly for her.
24:18 "Indara's a total hardass, but you know what, she's not wrong."
You know, after this episode, a thought has developed in my head. Maybe the by-the-book, rules & regulations, procedure & protocol, Code-to-the-letter, giant-stick-up-the-arse Jedi like Yord, Mace Windu, Luminara etc...kinda had a point. I'm struggling to think of one time we've seen a Jedi go off-book that hasn't had major consequences in the long run.
Sol & Torbin (mostly Sol) both go off-book and it results in the death of an entire coven, with Mae resurfacing 16 years later as an assassin with a vendetta against the Jedi.
Dooku goes off-book repeatedly while he's part of the Order, and then after he leaves, he turns to the Dark Side and ends up helping to start the Clone Wars.
Qui-Gon goes off-book and insists Anakin be trained as a Jedi even though he's too old. Then Anakin himself goes off-book time & time again, ultimately turning to the Dark Side and helping facilitate the near-total destruction of the Jedi Order and the rise of the Empire. The Galaxy, already battered by 3 years of war, is now subjected to 24 years of totalitarian dictatorship as a result.
Maybe the rules about emotional attachments and not letting your personal feelings cloud your judgement are in the Jedi Code for a reason.
To further prove your point.
Jedi Master Sifo-Dyas foresaw the Jedi being wiped out so he went off the books and put into motion the formation of the clone army. Bringing about the very outcome that he tried to prevent.
This comment deserves to be pinned 😂
Not so sure about that - as the "orthodox" Jedi seemed to also be unable to emphatize with emotions or attachments. I mean Yoda's advice to Anakin probably made things worse, if anything, as it sounded like the Jedi do not care about his feelings.
@@tucmakukla The rules and regulations definitely had there part to play in making the situation worse. But rash individual action was never the solution. The only real way to fix the problems the Jedi had was evaluation of the rules and principles by the council and overhaul them to fix the problems. But that would never have happened with how stuck in there ways they were. The reforms would have to be drastic as well, another reason they would never have happened. So because of their inability to evaluate and self improvement there fall was inevitable.
@@zerolegacy7821First is getting the Jedi out of Politics it is the reason that they made the wrong call with Ahsoka Tano. There main focus was not if they believed that she did what she was accused of but how it would politically look for supporting her until she was convicted. I guess the concept of guilty until proven innocent is not a thing with the Jedi which I would also change.
Next thing is stop being an enforcement branch for the senate. It turned the population of the republic against them during the war and made them turn against their philosophy of being peace keepers instead of soldiers. Work for the people instead of the government and keeping the government in check for the peoples behalf. Which would turn them from an enforcement branch to an investigative branch.
Next I would change the whole no emotion concept. Because that is not how sentient creatures function. And one of the biggest reasons Plalpatine was able to corrupt Anikan like he did was because Anikan did not have a father figure that he could go to for counseling. He did that with Yoda who basically just said deal with it because it is something a Jedi has to overcome on their own. The reason according to George
Lucas that the battle at the end of Phantom Menace is called Duel of the Fates is because it changes every one’s fate including Anikans. If Qui-Gon had survived he would have been that father figure that Anikan needed but instead he got Obi-wan who has said multiple times that he has failed Anikan.
Next the arrogance that the Jedi council have about knowing everything. “If it is not in the library it does not exist.” - Madam Jocasta in Episode 2 Attack of the Clones. “I do not believe the Sith could have returned without us knowing about it.” -Mace Windu -Episode 1 The Phantom Menace.
Next would be allowing Jedi to take time off from being a Jedi. Which should be mandatory as there entire world and world view revolves around their role. Which has resulted in a feedback loop and why they are so Dogmatic. During this time they can just be people. I would also change the fact that Jedi do not know who their relatives are. Which will allow them to have a broader world view, give them more advice options and actually allow them a support structure for when that choose to leave if they do. It would also allow them somewhere to go for the leave. There are around 10,000 Jedi during the clone wars I think things will continue to function if they are allowed temporary leave and do not get involved in fighting wars.
Jedi should be taught how control their emotions instead of being encourage to suppress them. Because suppressing negative emotions like Anger, fear, jealousy and so forth does not solve the problem. It just pushes it down for now. And when emotions and trauma are not dealt with they often fester and become a bigger problem.
It is also important to remember that the Jedi were more open with their rules and regulations (many not all) at what is called the high republic era. When the Jedi were at their best.
That is all I can think of right now but I will add on if I think of something else.
The moral of this episode: Indara was the GOAT and we all didn’t realize it
I literally came into this episode expecting Aniseya to say they couldn't take either of the girls and for Indara to be the hardass "Yes we effing are" type. I'm so glad I was wrong.
@@dimond360_ to a degree, but she let her Padawan go rogue and she also convinced everyone to cover it up.
All she wanted was for everyone to take the chill pill.
Are we not gonna talk about the fact that Bendu guessed Gonk Droid before it even appeared? The Force is strong with Bendu
He was seeing things earlier because of the connection delay. He also heard Kylo's theme and saw Kelnacca destroy a wall before Kyle.
The fight between Kelnacca, Sol and Torbin is also cool for the reason that canonically, it’s the first on screen lightsaber battle chronologically
True. Hadn't thought of that. Thanks!
Its cool for that reason?
Were there any in Young Jedi Adventures? I haven't finished that series yet, but that is set before this.
So what’s canon at this point?
@@The2ndQuest only training flights, I think.
This was the reaction I been waiting for
wish more people put more effort into their thoughts on this show's logic before judging it like most others seem to be doing.
Gonna be honest, I think I might have done the same as Sol with him "accidentally" killing Aniseya. Think about it, he's seeing this chick using some creepy-looking force magic, then looks to "Osha" and sees her disappearing also into a black sand-like smoke and freaks out. Thinking she's like "killing" her or something, so his only immediate instinct is to "take out the person doing the spell casting" and kills the mother. It's just such a sad situation that STILL just had so many things that were misinterpreted.
It also shows how this regret stayed with him for the rest of his life until now. It's probably exactly why he's so hesitant to pull out his saber now unless he has no choice.
I like how this ties back to Sol's introduction in the show when he is teaching the Youngling class. His first words in the Acolyte are, "Your eyes can deceive you. We must not trust them." It was a lesson he learned the hard way
Also the fact that Mae in the ship before mentioned her mother said "everyone must be sacrificed" , so sol may have thought she was trying to do the ritual forcefully
I'm pretty sure Mother Aniseya made Torbin's desire to go home unbearable. She screwed up when she mind controlled him. Going shadowform in front of a Jedi is a huge mistake, they are trained to kill that stuff instinctivly. Both sides screwed up in EP7.
I’ve heard sooo many people be like “why would Sol do that” and I’m laughing like seriously she turned into shadow form in front of him why the hell wouldn’t his instincts be to kill it.
@@scubasteve2903 Exactly. All he saw, out of context but still, was that the adults were harsh to the girls both verbally and physically, they were clearly about to perform some kind of ritual, Mae's misquote of saying they had to be sacrificed, her turning into smoke and then "Osha" starting to fade away. He legit thought she was about to kill this child.
Honestly in that moment Sol looks straight at Mae and once he saw that Mae was starting to get affected (as in it looked like she was turning to smoke to) he took action to make sure she is safe, Mother Aniseya along with Mother Kroli elevated that situation themselves and I’m just amazed how so few see that
@@scubasteve2903no, they are still correct. Sol being a religious zealot doesn’t justify the killing of “witches” his entire arc this episode is damning the witches as dangerous with zero evidence and acting on it despite Indara saying “dude, your are being prejudiced with no evidence”
@@Scottyjscizzle They went for nuance both Jedi and Witches taking drastic action based on partial information and a massacre happened. Messing with Torbin put Sol on high alert and going shadowform next to a paranoid Jedi is begging to get merc'd.
Kelnacca taking it upon himself to exile on Khofar because he became a madclaw 😭
To be fair to Torbin, the witches manipulated him into getting off the planet as soon as possible, which backfired since that led to the conflict.
Thank you for saying that
I'm surprised that so many people are missing this. Dude got mentally fucked up by that, to the point where he commit suicide a decade later.
@@mrsmi1ey Well, the one who suffered the most mentally was the Wooky, 47 witches died in his head.
Torbin was under a sort of triggered Suggestion spell. Makes sense
Yeah I kinda thought that, she turned his homesickness up to 100.
Torbin was mind controlled as a padawan and it traumatized him so badly that he spent the next SIXTEEN YEARS meditating so hard and so strongly that Mae couldn't even physically touch him. Only his extreme guilt brought him out of it. Nice little detail.
Not just mind controlled, but he was the one that jumped the gun and kicked off everything that followed. Both the deaths but the cover-up that followed. Not being able to even confess that to anyone until Mae came along.
@@coreyschleder8418True. Though I meant more that his greatest weakness became his greatest strength. When we are introduced to Torbin he is portrayed as a master jedi with immense psychic strength....and we just learned it was because he was a mentally weak padawan who got an entire culture destroyed and has been trying to make up for it ever sense. It was a cool way to tie in how he was introduced.
@@zammis17ify Oh, I see what you were saying now. Yeah, that would be a hell of a motivator to never let that happen again.
@@zammis17ify Sol also lifted Osha with ease in episode 1 and used several Force pull to mess with Qimir in episode 5. He probably practiced a lot because he couldn't lift two halves of a relatively light bridge (compared to lots of heavy shits other Jedi have been shown able to life/move) with two little girls.
@@elnar71 Very true. And if you want to take this all one step further...Kelnacca was mind controlled and hurt the ppl on his team against his will. He then banished himself to the most remote outpost all by himself.
They were all heavily influenced by what happened and it's cool to go back and rewatch the first few episodes with this new knowledge.
thank you for your fair reactions!! i soooo exhausted with whiners and complainers who no longer discuss stuff or add insights.... you guys rock! i needed you both to talk about this show!❤😊
} Mae MISS-quoted Mother Aniseya, she did NOT say anything about sacrificing people at all, she was talking about letting go of wants and moving past fear, to let go of fear, that was she meant by "sacrifice".
} The fire spread through the 100+ year old wiring in the walls all the way to the old power generator room and the old equipment exploded
} Torbin made A LOT of mistakes and misjudgements based on his own fear and mistrust
} Sol made A LOT of assumptions with little evidence, and he acted out of emotions, acted out of fear
} They were told NO by the Jedi council, they were all supposed to leave, they should have let it go and should have LEFT
} Aniseya turned into "shadow" to teleport her and Mae to a safe place, Sol assumed it was an attack and reacted, but striking with his saber was an over-reaction on his part
) Mother Korril acted out of fear, anger and mistrust of the Jedi, she needlessly escalated things in several ways.
} Indara severed the connection the witches had to Kelnacca to mind puppet him, but severing that connection killed them unintentionally; she didn't know that would happen. Ever see The Matrix? It's like abruptly unplugging 50 people from the Matrix, which results in death
Loved the reference to the Legacy Run disaster. The event that kicked off this whole era of content.
Damn what a serie of fuck ups.🙃
Sol: let his prejudice over the coven bring the Jedi to meddle and investigate them.😐
Torbin: gets so afraid after being mind controlled than goes ballistic over the possibility of leaving the place using Osha and Mae as evidence of a vergence.😳
Toril: also goes ballistic. Inciting Mae to attack Osha and she was likely the one who put the fortress into self destruction mode. Her smile while she disappeared was most telling.😳
Mae: she did started a fire but lost control of it and she also incited the witches to fight.😲
Aniseya: she was way too passive and lost control of both Mae and Torill, and the coven in the process. 😳
Sol: fucks up again by confusing Aniseya's gesture as one of attacking while Torbin and Korill are facing each other.😨
Kelnacca: learns nothing from Torbin's failure and end up mind controlled. Forcing Torbin and Sol to hold their hits until Indara arrives to undo the mind control, killing the dozens of witches that were controlling them.😨
Indara: After being the voice of reason before and right after Sol finally comes to his senses she decides the best course of action is to hide the evidence and use Osha as a excuse?😨
And Let's not forget that Toril likely rescued Mae and led her to her revenge path with the Sith Qmir. After all there was no one else on the planet.😱
In Kelnacca's defense though, the ENTIRE coven seems to have been needed to actually even control him. That's some insane mental defense to the point where the entire coven needed to work to control him, not actually being that he didn't "learn" anything lol.
Great summary!
Thanks to Kyle, Bendu and Nerd Chronic! 🌑 The "we must be sacrificed" misquote little 'Mae' conveyed to 'Indara' and 'Sol' had a huge impact. They literally thought the girls were in mortal danger. 'Aniseya' actually said, "It is about sacrificing a *part* of ourselves". 🔸 It's also wild to learn that 'Sol' was imposing his own wants (to have a Padawan... even though he might not be ready) onto the situation. He even almost lost his temper with 'Indara' at the end. Looked like he was set to hit her. That shows a very un-Jedi-like conflict that adds to his motivations. 🔸 And don't get me started on 'Torbin' being all immature from boredom and homesickness. 'Indara' turned out to be the most reasonable one of all. 🔸 I want a second season!!!
I want a second season MORE!! Fight me. 😅
biggest reason for second season: MORE QIMIR. MUCH MORE!
@@zerolegacy7821 It's a master's prerogative to implement the training style they deem most beneficial to their pupil. So, I disagree with your assertions (and attitude) and I don't have time address them all... which you're not likely in a position to appreciate, currently.
This episode I think is a great showcase for what Qui-Gon was saying in Phantom Menace when he says your focus determines your reality
The witches died from being disconnected forcefully, it’s like taking scissors and snipping the cord instead of unplugging it from the socket.
Oh that's a really good analogy! 👍
Their soul probably got taken by the void, like they explained in the Bane series.
They unplugged from the matrix and died.
@@smokinjoe4709 Trinity killed them in the matrix and when you die in the matrix…
The psychic backlash killed the witches after Indara broke their spell.
Mae misremembered Mother Aniseya's quote, which makes it all the more tragic.
Indarra was also troubled that Osha passed- she hoped she wouldn't pass.
Highly recommend checking out Leslye Headlands Nerdist interview about this ep, she confirms the vergence was on Brendok before the witches and is connected to the mining facility. The witches used it to hide and amplify their power.
Light of the jedi is unironically one of the best star wars books ive ever read and ive read the entire EU several times
Master *IN*dara , Bendu keeps saying "Inara" lol
I feel at this point we should just them call her that hahahahaa.
I never thought I'd live in a world that I'd get to see a Wookie Lightsaber fight!🤯💚 Crazy! And Ditto Thank God these have been released at for My Time zone 9:00 if not it would be 3:00am! 😂 Thanks as always guy's 🤘
Mother Aniseya incepted Torbin. That episode was just so tragic all around. Compelling and sad.
I was waiting for you guys. You are the best
I remember watching the first flash back episode wondering why Indara was so cold and standoffish and just looked mad… now I get it 😂
The solemn look of "my colleagues reeaaaaallly fucked up, goddammit"
Something to keep in mind with Kelnacca was before he was killed by the Stranger he was tracing the symbol of the clan upon the walls of his hut. I think a piece of the witches remained latched in his head, which makes me wonder if anything might come of his death down the road, be a season two or some novel/comic down the road.
The start of the fire is such a child thing to do. Doing something, it escalated into something bad, they can't fix it and then run to a parent. Everyone did this as a child, maybe not with fire but with playing with vases or hitting a sibling and the sibling starts crying.
Torbin and Sol both made mistakes but same is true with the witches. Sol, especially, messed up but to be fair, to him, Aniseya's actions very much looked like an attack and she never gave Sol any reason to believe she wouldn't cause harm. The last time she used her powers, it was to possess Torbin. A woman turning into seriously creepy black mist and doing the same to her child, I don't blame Sol for misinterpreting the situation, but he did still killed someone who wasn't attacking him and he knows it. And honestly I have no sympathy left for the witches after this episode except for Aniseya because she wasn't going to take Osha's choice away from her. What they did to Kelnacca, making him scar a Padawan and commit a Wookiee cultural sin, was also really fucked up.
Torbin was reckless and Sol was heavily projecting onto others but I get them both in this episode. They both want to serve a greater good (which is something I feel Jedi should want to do). Torbin was frustrated and then scared and Sol had some valid concerns about the safety of the girls. And while Torbin shouldn't have taken off, things were escalating to violence before he and Sol even arrived. Koril encouraged Mae to get angry and violent and that led to the fire and everything that followed. Things were already underway and the Jedi don't enter until after Sol senses Osha was in danger. I think that's important to acknowledge.
*Cackles loudly* I have been waiting a long time for this moment. My rebel friends.
Loved the episode, and I love this show, but my god the two twins standing there doing nothing and reaching out to each other while yelling each other's names was corny as hell. My wife and I randomly shout "MAE!" and "OSHA!" to each other from different parts of the house now 😂
I totally called after episode 3 that Mae only intended to set the book on fire and only dropped the lamp after the burning book got away from her. The fire spreading into the 100+ year old wiring in the old mining facility explains why the fire got so out of hand.
AndKyle, you totally called the whole tense standoff getting out of hand, somebody gets trigger happy and everyone fights scenario. I was just surprised that it was Sol who was first to lose his cool.
Indara was the MVP of this episode, and I'm glad they finally showed her as a fuller character.
Im sorry but thats not how wirering is affected by fire. Most of this old Mining building is Made Out of stone. Mai just continues to have a flick flack Charakter. She wanted to kill Oasha because they other mother Made her angry? Seriously?
@@FloundFahrdienst"that's not how wiring is affected by fire" in a show about space wizards? Okey dokey. It must really piss you off that there is sound in space, not to mention single-biome planets, or the fact that every planet, asteroid, and moon seems to operate in 1-G, right?
And no, Mae didn't actually want to kill Osha, and that's the point. Kids say stupid shit they didn't actually mean or don't understand all the time, especially when they're mad.
@@benjaminportilla9297 If you go by that logic than they can do anything in this and you dont care. Thats fine if you watch something like that. You do you.
Regarding Mae and kids doing stipid shit. Yes, yes they do but I have never EVER in my entire life seen a kid saying or wanting to murder someone. Even kids know what that means. So no I dont buy that
@@FloundFahrdienst clearly you haven't worked with children, eh? I have and I've heard kids say to their closest friends or siblings that they want to kill each other on multiple occasions.
As for not caring, sure it bugs me when the story tellers do stuff that doesn't obey the laws of physics because it suits the story they want to tell, all I'm saying is that this isn't reality. For all you know, the materials used to insulate conduit and wiring in an unmaintained structure centuries or more old may have degraded into something extremely unstable and volatile over time, allowing the fire to travel quickly through the walls to the gigantic and equally unstable generator. What fluid was inside that lamp or in the pipes feeding it, and what are its combustion properties? Who knows, and the point I was making is that things like that are really not that important to the makers of Star Wars, and they never have been.
@@benjaminportilla9297 You work as an educator or teacher I asume? You have it rough, because holy those are some really fucked up children you gotta deal with.
Now Im curious, were you bothered by the bombers and bombs in the last jedi? Because thats one of my prime examples in regards to this topic
They really dug into his fears and impatience and made him susceptible to his impulses. Everyone feared the worst of everyone else, and didn’t communicate their truths. All good intentions from both sides, and no one wins
@8:13 that Bill o'Reilly reference came out of nowhere. got a good chuckle out of me lol
I think Indara did the mental equivalent to breaking their necks. Carrie even did the movement with the head when her character kill them, something that shows better than ever how terrifing the Jedi can be as since childhood sharped living weapons, to the point not even the witches, with all their powers, are a real menace to them. The episode made me think a lot about Path of Deceit, being some kind of reverse take of that novel. That time, the Jedi were decimated by the world they went into. This one, the people in Brendok were the ones suffering the Jedi. At the end, like Aniseya, everything is about power and who uses it
I love that almost every character had their part to play in this disaster. Really the only characters not at fault are Kelnacca, Osha, and you can also make a case for Mae. A parent should never encourage a child to make rash action on their own. As they do not have the critical or forward thinking to think through such decisions.
And the fallout for this tragedy is still playing out, Sol’s Jedi team including his padawan would not have died if he did not play his part In causing this problem.
They needed Yord on the mission. He would insist all the ignition keys to speeders are safely locked up when not in use and that proper procedure be observed at all time. Also he wouldn't let Torbin or Sol leave without having them properly steam their robes.
And Mother Anisseya trying to mind control him would get her stuck in a huge rule book.
I like both of your positivity, Star Wars Theory called it an abomination. I’m somewhat in the middle like Star Wars Meg.
I understand why Sol killed Aniseya, she suddenly turned into a smoke demon and looked to be erasing Mae. From his perspective it looked bad. She was also very hostile towards them instead of being up front about letting Osha go with them.
People seem to be confused how the fire spread, it seems to be an electrical fire. The fire spreading along the floor was the oil from the lamp, not sure how Theory missed that as he said the floor was just burning randomly.
The twins aren’t a vergence like Anakin but the product of one. I think the actual vergence is either the hole or the tree.
Love this show. Always appreciate your guy's reactions. Thanks for bringing back the sonic charge - it wasn't right without it. Lol
I don't think they are going to give answers. When Indara talks to Sol she explains how he gives answers to sooth someone's mind, she prefers to let her padawan find the answers themselves so that they understand. I think the show is supposed to be like that.
Loved the reaction guys. Thanks. I’m enjoying this show very much
The Jedi don’t steal children. Sees children in woods w/Mother, immediately/relentlessly makes excuses to take at least one for himself, children’s entire community/family dies, and fellow Jedi help to cover it up so he gets a/the child. Seems legit. 🤔
Having issues with how Jedi bring children in for training? It goes back to Phantom Menace. Free child, keep mom in slavery. Seems legit.
Love watching these two best friends react and discuss The Acolyte. I hope to catch y'all in the next live stream. Bittersweet the finale is nigh, but we shall "stand at the ready!"
Super ugly situation with the blame mostly on Sol, but there are still two unanswered pieces that make me hope there's another season or a heck of a long finale: did Aniseya actually have a nefarious, Plagueis-like purpose for creating the twins, or did she and Koril just want kids (who would then double as successors to their coven)? And then...literally everything about Qimir.
One thing I love about this episode, besides how it deconstructs Qui-Gon (albeit indirectly right up until the "good intentions" line) is how it sets Sol as a foil to Qimir. Both just sorta want a pupil for selfish reasons. Now that they find themselves in this situation after two truly ugly paths to getting there, their future actions will now determine everything (and I'm not holding out hope for Sol's ending, if the next era being known as FALL OF THE JEDI, not to mention the Order being the cocky shitheads they are in the prequels, is any indication).
I'm firmly of the opinion Sol was defending Osha from weird sacrificial majicks when he sabered Aniseya (at least in his head) before realizing just how bad he screwed up.
Koral is still out there somewhere, possibly Qimir's master or rival. Someone had to teach Plaguis how to manipulate midichlorians...
@rohirrim8488 - Agree with you on all counts. Sol definitely thought he was protecting the girls, not realizing Anaseya's (sp?) intentions. He seems to be triggered by something and driven to protect them at all costs. I get the sense it's connected to some sort of trauma in his backstory.
I also believe that Mother Korill is Qimir's Master. Whether she's Sith or just Sith aligned, I'm not sure. I like the idea of her working with Plagueis on using The Force to create life, though. My guess I'd that Qimir is likely an early Knight of Ren, which is likely analogous to the idea of a Sith Acolyte. I assume the Sith Lord here is who ends up being Plagueis' Master.
The witches believe that the Force is a Thread. Master Indara cut the thread and all of their lives left them because they were all tapped into the same thread.
Oh that’s a interesting way of seeing it!
This is why you should be open minded when meeting people from a another culture or at least don't judge / interfere with the way they do things. Cause if you do, you get 50 + bodies in an old mining facility on a strange planet
😊 Loved your conversation about this episode.
Also did you notice the echo of episode six, when Sol was talking to himself asking why he didn't see that villain's intentions. It's like a repeating trauma for him, he keeps misinterpreting everyone's intentions. The family dynamics of the twins, their mother, Qimir... even Mae says it's because his mind is clouded. Most of all, he misunderstands other so much, because he never understands his own intentions. Like Qimir said, I've accepted my darkness, what have you done with yours?
He kept forcing his answer on Torbyn, then his viewpoint on Osha... even to Mae, last episode, he ties her down and says: you're going to listen...
We kind of have to ask... has he changed? Has he grown?...
Can't wait for the next episode :))
Sol also mistakes Mae for Osha and he reacts because he thinks Anyseia is doing something bad to her. However it is not clear what she was trying to do turning into dark mist
Sol Saber whipping Kelnacca in the face with his lightsaber hilt isn’t something I needed. It’s like that time Vader did it, I think it was in a Thrawn comic?
The word "sacrifice" has a plethora of different meanings The Jedi jumped the gun & never established what kind of sacrifice was required. The Jedi were wrong for interfering outside the republics juridiction... Now I see why Torbin drank the poision.⚗️🧪
George Lucus once said: "Star Wars is geared towards 12 year olds." It has always been a level of corniness, bad acting & writing involved since "A New Hope". However I don't see/hear 12 year olds online complaining only "adults" I respect everyones opinion but I have to always be mindful of what George Lucus said...
And to add to the Jedi's misunderstanding of Mae's explanation of the Ascension: she's 8! An 8 year old isn't a reliable resource for information on the intricacies of religion or governmental structures (what was with Indara trying to 'catch' Mae in a cultural inconsistency when she said she and Osha would lead the coven? Indara is an ADULT why is she trying to debate cultures with an 8 year old??). The Jedi should know better than to base their understanding of a group on the misquote of a child. Imagine if a child was asked about Christianity and they said 'the church says I have to take up my own cross in order to follow Jesus' (which isn't even a misquote) - should the adult assume that child is saying in order to be a Christian everyone will be killed by being willingly crucified for real? Or should they maybe do a bit more research and ask, idk, and adult what that means.
Torbin using Form 3 in that duel is the best thing to ever witness.
Even if possessed, Kelnacca’s skill made him a powerhouse.
I’m beginning to think not only are we seeing the slow demise of the Jedi…they’re also showing us the beginnings of why Anakin was created…the Force is starting to sicken.
yes because downfall of the Jedi didnt start withthe Anakin, Anakin was just peak of Bull run and then it crashed down.
I didn't think about that the force is starting to get out of balance
I put this much more on Sol than on Torbin. Torbin, though a complete idiot, he is a padawan who was possessed by a which like the day before. Sol on the other hand is an experienced Knight at this point, if not a master (Indara introduced him and Kalnacca as her colleagues, implying same rank). Never at one point did he try to see things differently, and he repeatedly went against his orders. He is doing the exact same thing now 16 years later. This is on Sol
Yeah, and in the process, the narrative deconstructs Qui-Gon in a way that recontextualizes TPM (finally!).
Sol's attack on Aniseya, while she was changing her physical state to protect Mae, came from a place of 'fear' and 'attachment', which are paths to the darkside, as opposed to the calmness and peace of the light. To Mae, she saw her unarmed mother murdered. Sol's desire to train Osha clouded his mind. He should have listened to Indara and the Jedi council. As a Jedi knight, the responsibility of what occurred is on him alone.
*~There are but 2 reactor channels I've been anticipating, and Kyle Katarn with the Bendu is one of them.~* I share your appreciation of a mystery in SW, and not wanting it all spoon-fed.
- I am SO freakin' glad you compared the death of Luke to the deaths of the Sisters. That was but ONE of my theories.
- Aniseya was, in my opinion, about to channel herself into Mae, but got gutted by Sol. Gotta say, Mother Korril *DID* assume an attack stance, Torbin yoinked out his saber, Aniseya went all gassy, so Sol...death jabbed.
- ndara and Kelnacca are (technically?) the only one with relatively clean hands...until they went along with *The SECRET.*
- t's a rarity, but the Council was *actually right* in their decision.
In Koril's defense, the Jedi did just break into their home for a SECOND time and were demanding answers to things they had no right to - and when Mae ran into the courtyard, Sol was the one to reach toward her: something Jedi do when they are using the Force to push/pull/affect someone. Seeing someone reach toward her daughter (the one who begged her not to let the Jedi take her) of course is going to make her go on the defensive - but she DIDN'T attack, she simply went into a guarding stance.
Seeing what happened when Koril dissipated into smoke, I think Mother Aniseya was just trying to teleport herself and Mae away to Osha - nothing sinister at all, but when a militant force is trained that any sudden movement is someone trying to kill you, they act with deadly force instinctively. Which is so screwed up (see: the real world and cops killing people of color even when they did nothing wrong/weren't attacking, they just moved and the cop assumed they were doing something dangerous, so shot them dead and now an innocent person has been killed and people will blame the one murdered for just 'not complying well enough') and is 100% on Sol for interpreting every single thing the coven did as evil rather than taking the time to understand them - he made his bigoted judgement of them with no info, and went on the attack immediately.
Guys i love you so much. Even this show has so many flaws and could be much better, i still dig it and I am happy, that you are one of few channels who does not just hate.
Many other channels cant even udnerstand why Torbin should have guilt, even why Kelnaca? We know wookies dont use claws in fight, if they do they are expeled from tribe, plus he almost massacred his fellow jedi.
Indara knew the right thing to do at each step, but she wasn't strong enough of a leader to keep Sol and Torbin from wandering off the field.
So..... can we talk about the fact that Sol could've easily lifted both girls to safety using the force..... instead of holding the bridges.... etc etc.... **cough**
a series of bad decisions, assumptions, impulsivity and emotional responses. mother anasyia buried the lede but even if she announced osha could go with the jedi i don't think mother koril would've reacted well. i love sol though. he's so flawed. lee jung-jae is giving a great performance.
i do think torbin was even more reactive because of his mind fuckery he experienced so he reacted in haste. it pushed him to desperation.
Nothing more scarier than a Wookiee with a lightsaber
I think Torbin's injuries came from Kelnacca's claws. That would explain why Kelnacca put himself into exile.
@@foulrot I believe the writers confirmed this.
Sol is becoming a huge favorite Jedi for me the more I get of him, and Torbin really surprised me with his lightsaber skills, he had Anakins move down!
Inara and Sol told the Council (and Osha) the truth like Obi-Wan told Luke about Vader killing his father- from a certain point of view.
I don't think all the witches are dead, because Mae has to get off the planet somehow. The witches either own or have access to a ship to be living on this abandoned planet.
8:10 Sol is totally that tabletop player that put ranks into Investigation skills and is flexing them now that an opportunity has presented itself.
I don't think the witches died when Inara yanked their Force IP from Kelnaca's brain server. More likely they passed out and later the fire claimed them. It's not like Sol or Osha had time to stop and check for a pulse.
I had hopes you were going to React with LouiseJulie😭
How dope would that be if they had her on the podcast?
YAYYYY I WAS WAITING FOR THIS I WAS STARTING TO GET WORRIED REALLY LOL!
Sol really screwed up here, but he definitely earned major badass points for straight-up punching an angry Wookiee in the face. Interesting that the two who were mind controlled are the ones who sent themselves into isolation afterwards.
26:35: We also see how Qui Gonn, despite fully sympathizing with Shmi and Anakin early on didn’t immediately commit to freeing Anakin. Like he said, “I didn’t come here to free slaves.” If he was like baby Sol, he would’ve been like, slavery is terrible. Let’s free everyone now. L
Things to be cleared up next week (1) Why Torbin wanted to get back to Coruscant so badly? (2) How Qirmir got involved in this? (You don't recognize me; do you?) and (3) How & why Qirmir got his scar? - and (my guess) they're all related.
When Osha finally asks Sol about how her mothers died, he can say Mae did it "from a certain point of view ".
The only reaction I was waiting for.
I actually like this episode a lot. It teaches my favourite moral lesson: the road to hell is paved with good intentions.
But to be honest with you, the episode lost me when Torbin stormed to the Witch's fortress... to do what exactly? Take on all the witches? Kidnap the kids? Was he sooooo homesick he would assault witches, which goes against everything he had been taught? Sorry, I am not just buying it. If there were some scenes, when it was made clear he was still under influence of Anaseas's spell and that's why he got obsessed with leaving the planet, I could understand it. But as it is...
Also, loved Indara - everything she did was correct... Until she started to cover for Sol and she prevented him from revealing the truth to the Jedi council. I guess, her killing all that witches could be seen as pretty dark.
What I like is that neither the Jedi nor the Witches were wrong.
I think it's more nuanced than that: the Jedi WERE wrong, but they had 'good' intentions. They BELIEVED the girls were in danger - but they were wrong in that assumption which led them to becoming hostile and attacking the coven. They didn't become aggressive out of malicious intent, but the effect was still the same: good intentions don't cancel out the damage done.
Torbin was a victim of inception. Mother Anaseya inadvertently caused her own demise.
Something I love is how Sol's biggest mistake, killing the girls' mother, ties back to his introduction in the first episode. Sol's first words onscreen are the famous "Your eyes can deceive you, you cannot trust them." And in this episode, we see him make a terrible mistake by trusting only what he saw.
Brendock as a whole is a complete tragedy where each side let their fears control them rather than let cooler heads prevail. Indara urges her team to be cautious when dealing with the coven, and Mother Aniseya warns against using violence against the Jedi. Both are ignored and as a result the twins' entire lives were upended and an entire community is wiped out
I would love a padawan Sol book, as there’s definitely something going on with him. Why does he want a padawan so much, he sees abuse in the kid’s upbringing does he have trauma himself?
So hyped to watch with you guys! I thought this ep was beautiful and tragic. I’ve been very impressed with Koganada’s work in this series. Sol did basically everything wrong, Torbin was a spoiled, petulant child, but Indara was the adult in the room. And we assume Kelnacca was pretty good too, what happened wasn’t his fault. I love Aniseya as a character so much - flawed, but loves deeply and has much wisdom. Jodie Turner-Smith really needs to be Storm in the MCU. Her performance was incredible.
Indeed. Jodie Turner-Smith should, and more. She's way impressive. Beautiful, graceful, talented...she should be way more known. I truly felt for 'Aniseya'.
I think the rest of the witches got hit by a rebound of their power and that’s why they all died
This episode talks about each person's desires and the resulting prejudice of seeing what they want to see, and that was the message that ran through the entire episode. Tolvin was young and energetic and had a strong desire to succeed due to his background from the outskirts, so he wanted a bigger mission than exploring a remote planet, but the witch stirred his mind and released his restrained desires, leading him to act more impulsively from then on.
Sol's feelings of deprivation and slight jealousy over his relative lack of a Padawan gradually drove him to judge and act on situations as he wished.
After this incident, the two Jedi who were mentally controlled by the witch, Sol, who experienced catastrophe, and Indara, who unintentionally massacred a group of witches, each seem to have lived through great aftereffects.
This Jedi vs night sister massacre reminds me so much of the ATF (Jedi) stand off at Waco against the branch Davidians (night sisters).
I'm just glad we finally got the truth. Now, I want to know what happened to Koril. She wasn't in that group of women that Indara cast out (I also don't think she killed them, I think they were just unconscious, but then the fire killed them). I think Koril had to be the one that taught Qimir about the power of two. Can't wait till next week!
Imagine after ALL this has happened. Osha failed and doesn't become a jedi anyway. So many life's lost because of Sol.
There are still questions, I think there's a third party involved. The fate of Mother Koril, what happened to the witches (I really don't think they died just because of the possession ritual, it feels like there's something more to it), who was the cloaked figure with the witches in Chapter 3, the origin of the twins... And, considering we still don't know how Qimir is related to all this, I wouldn't be surprised if his master is involved in it all, making everything worse for both witches and jedi.
The Acolyte may not be perfect but damn does it hold up a mirror to the hypocrisies of the Jedi and their arrogance that they are so blind to
Indara is amazeballs. Sol got the wrong idea, over and over.
Of course Kyle immediately knows it’s a nuna lol
Of course you have to look at the scene - Koril raised her weapon looking like she was about to strike and then Torbin ignited his saber and then Mae showed up and Aniseya used her power causing her and Mei to appear to be disintegrating and Sol, who thought at that time it was Osha, thought that Aniseya was killing Osha and struck. It all happens so fast. Koril should not have engaged and Sol was acting in what he thought was defense of Osha.
A lost of fucking up was happening.
24:45 Preaching my thoughts about this whole story.
Mae did start the fire, and everyone was lost, so what Indara said was true... from a certain point of view... 😀
I think the witches mind control enhanced Torbin's fear and desire to go home. That's the best explanation for his irrational behavior. Why else would a Padawan disobey their master and head off on that speeder.
I agree. I also wonder if the vergence intensified their desires- Torbin’s desire to go home and Sol’s desire for a Padawan
Interesting, Hadn't considered that. Could be
Attachment, compassion, family..
Maybe Sol is overzealous or impatient to get a padawan, but I get the feeling that there's something more than that. I wonder if he was a little older than usual when he went to the order, like Osha. Maybe old enough to experience some serious trauma and develop deep-seated anger issues.
The "more than that" is his prejudices against anyone not using the Force the way the Jedi say it should be used. Everything the coven was doing *must* be "dark" because it doesn't fit the Order's established views. It also doesn't help that Mae misquoted her mother ("everyone must sacrifice part of themselves" vs. "everyone must be sacrificed"). It's also echoed by Qimir's insistence that a Jedi would probably call him a Sith, because they only see things in black and white (or to use SW terminology, dark and light).
"Only a Sith deals in absolutes," said the last truly great Jedi of the Order. Yet here, on the verge of an era called FALL OF THE JEDI, the Jedi are dealing in absolutes. Aniseya calls it: this kind of BS (repeated 100 years later) is what leads to their ultimate failure.
I really can't wait to see how Rey rebuilds the Jedi as an organization. You can't just put stain remover on something that goes this deep; it's gotta be completely changed.
Sol said he was 4 (only saying in case you didn't remember).
Indara and Aniseya were both completely reasonable, and everyone else was bonkers.
So she was reasonable for mind raping Torbin who had done nothing wrong to her? Sure lol.
i boop at yall!~ (big love of the videos, thanks guys, checking out the books!)
The arrogance of breaking into someone’s home and then being surprised when they defend themselves. Also, even if Osha wanted to be a Jedi. Children don’t get to run off with random strangers. Sol was so out of line. You do not have a connection with a child that you don’t know. All of this was very creepy.
The show’s message is that we need to accept the differences of others and not force our worldview on them. If we don’t, it will only lead to fear, anger, hatred, and loss.
I sympathize with Torbin because I had to move to different homes during my youth. It pained me so much that I wished my family and I never moved at all.
The Jedi may be flawed. However, the High Republic stories show how the Jedi are still doing their best to help others and accept them for who they are.
The Jedi are the only faction that even try to make the Galaxy a better place. They rarely received a single thanks or sense of appreciation while doing so.
However, when the Jedi are all gone following Order 66, the people of the Galaxy realized how wrong they were and grew to appreciate the Jedi over time.