Infrasonic bass adds in another layer of depth, immersion and enjoyment that would immediately be missed once you experience it, then take it away. Once you experience deep clean infrasonic bass, it’s hard to give it up and go back to smaller subs.
@@Audioholics I spent a good deal on my Paradigm XR13 - but $12k for a sub is a bit out of my price range at this point. I would be curious how some of the DIY options from Stereo Integrity would stack up against this thing.
@rayc9838 my friend Brian Hager had the dual JTR and sold and got the dual RBH and likes it much better. You get what you pay for not that JTR is bad, however.
Th song Queen 👸🏻 Mary has been a revelation in my system. Please Gene 🧬 can you kindly do an entire playlist of SONGS (not Albums) and tell us to listen to Particular parts for good bass/mids/highs. Do an entire hour…but only songs NOT albums :)😅
@@Audioholics thanks Gene 🧬!! Look 👀 forward to it. The 3-Dimensional queen mary song (on repeat) makes me a tad mad at why every song is not recorded like this 😂
OMG! Somebody finally used the correct term, “infrasonic”, instead of the common but, entirely wrong, “subsonic”. Subsonic means below the speed of sound. Lately I’ve seen subsonic being used much more than infrasonic but, that doesn’t make it correct. Thank you Gene for getting it right!
Sounds great (pun intended). I'm happy with my home built IB sub. Eight 15" drivers. A friend played the Bass Mechanik CD, and it was rattling the room at 3 Hz. Materials cost was more like $2700. Weight equivalent: The drivers alone weigh 280 lbs. Factoring in the weight of the front baffles (2.25" thick) and the concrete slab underneath brings the total weight to over 3000 lbs.
Gene, I really like the way this review was shot and edited. You look like you're having fun and all the cuts keep it interesting to watch. I could watch this over and over!
OMG and Shiver Me Timbers Gene ! Do be careful. It's well known that ultra deep bass can cause a loss of sphincter control and cause you to dirty yourself! Sal1950
I'm so obsessed with having my own dedicated home theater. But man yeah I have got to have maybe 4 people to carry two subwoofers down to the basement... Such heavyweight subs makes me even more obsessed with home theaters. ;)
Gene ... this sub (and its dual cousin) is what dreams are made. But I have a bone ot pick regarding the group delay measurements you posted. You MUST mention taht these excellent GP measurements are pre-EQ or without equalization. The moment you add EQ to battle room modes etc, the GP curve go to pot as well. This makes it best to EQ in the preceeding AV pre-pro using its automated room eq and leave the sub alone. Makes sense? How about have GP curves pre and post EQ? Thanks!
accurate group delay measurements must be taken anechoic. The idea is build a system w low GD to do less harm with EQ. Most of the EQ done was for cuts not boots so that should NOT negatively affect GD.
"what is your favorite bass tracks, what are your favorite movie scenes with infrasounds"... Aka: feed me a list of infrasonic effects to enjoy my new infrasonic monster. 😂
Try the scene in “War of the Worlds” (2005) where the Martians first come out of the ground. Also, the Saturn 5 launch of Apollo 13 in “Apollo 13” (1995).
at some point, subwoofers will have internal pistons that move in antiphase with the driver for recoil cancelation xD. basicly a second driver pointing backwards that is totaly enclosed and has no cone.
I do have infrasonic capabilties. With 2x18s sealed i can barely do 110db at 8 hz at the listening position. Now i'm running 4x 18s sealed, i haven't measured what i can do as i don't need to. The subs run at 25% of their power, they barely even move at -8db on movies like the Ready Player One. For bass scenes, i use the: Overlord the planes in the beginning. Interstellar the black hole scene. Fury. (For that 12k USD, i can buy maybe get 14 of the 18 inch ultimax, build boxes for them, mini dsp HD and amps. With 14 subs, they would probably excurt no more than 1mm, there will be 0 distortion as the cones won't move, no need to worry about the cabinet shaking, and because they are 14 of othem, the cone area will be soooo big, i won't need tooo much amplification as well. But it will take forever to build.
Well, Gene, maybe I am "Clinically Insane" for a duel 21 but, it will just be a matter of time before you finally give in! I am sure you do know your already 99% there, all thats separating you from us excessive sub bass heads is another 21inchs and 4000 watts 😂
Wow, Thank you for your input and your contribution to this topic it has been such a wealth of knowledge and it clearly sounds like It originated from a very educated stance indeed! 😂
Hmm. I wonder if they could make a custom cabinet that's actually a couch? That's the only way I could fit this monster in my room. But I don't have $12k more to spend on audio gear for the foreseeable future anyway..
I don't like doing this because I was really liking the specs on this speaker, right up until the $12,000 price. I design and build this stuff and I'm not saying it's a bad product but I can build the exact same thing by hand for half that price and make a fat profit. $6,000 would be a reasonable price.
You can't simply build the cabinet the way they did it. On that note, the same can be said about any consumer good. You could make a meal at home cheaper than eating out too.
@@Audioholics I'm not trying to be hyperbolic I'm just saying I worked for JBL back in the 90's and have been a Machinist and fabricator for custom one off's of various arts and media and been designing and building audio systems for decades amongst other accolades, so I'll say it again I can build that cab and driver with amp for half the cost and performance equal too or greater. What's being achieved by that cabinet is nothing special at $12,000 dollars. I'm truly and honestly not trying to be rude about it it's just the truth and charging people ridiculous money for simple things is criminal but if they're willing then that's on them and more power to you. I just know I wouldn't be able to sleep at night if I charged my clients that kind of money for that.
@jedpetersen3806 OK, then do it and start a subwoofer company. I'm still waiting for JBL to make a consumer subwoofer that has a meaningful output below 25hz. That's definitely not happening with their premium brand Revel.
@@Audioholics Agreed JBL doesn't provide a cab or driver that does much below 30. They really don't feel like it's necessary, I don't feel the same way. In my experience there's a fair amount of energy below that point that adds to the experience of sound in home theater and even music. As far as starting a company I've been down that road and it's not something just anybody can do, primarily because it involves a lot smoke and mirror BS like what Bose does too sell enough quantity to be profitable and industry standard markup for most audio is in the 200% range and if that's what is required to keep the doors open it's not for me. What would be a great video from companies is a transparent educational on the business side of the audio world so maybe you can do that for the next video. I truly do hope this company succeeds and in the future we're not stuck with sourcing our components from China and the market allows the consumer to buy American MADE 100% Products and companies can prosper and consumers get fair value's. Chinese restaurants make tasty food but I make mine at home without the MSG.
Would you recommend this sub if you have a pair of electro stats (specifically magnepans lrs). I wonder if it’s too much or or if the amount of air moving from the sub could damage the speakers. Thanks
I bought a Stereo Integrity 18" subwoofer and it''s in a cardboard Tube from Lowe's which just cost me about $25. I use it for my car. The interesting fact about tube is that despite being lightweight and thin, it's almost impossible to stretch and compress the walls making tube the most ideal enclosure you can get for a car audio system. I'm not a fan of making a huge bulky heavy square wooden box which you have to brace the hell out of to avoid the walls flexing. And can be $300 or more where my tube enclosure did not pass $50 and is super strong. I don't need to go through any of those nonsensical hurdles using tube. As long as the front and rear baffle is strong enough, your good to go. (I can't find a concave structure which is the strongest to use as the rear for the enclosure) My 18" tube is about 30" long with a 100" long ported system and it's all tuned to about 17Hz. 17Hz is where the car windows flex the most and is amazing for what it is.
Great timing. I got to hear this RBH 21 SF/R subwoofer myself today at MWAVE. Also 2nd time this year I experienced the RBH SVTRS-FRS towers. One of the rooms here hit 140db tonight. lol.
Hearing protection supplied and required. All signed a waiver. This is inside of a conference center, not a hotel, so massive cu.ft. room. Our crew is 155db capable. Recommend double hearing protection. lol
@@Audioholics140db of bass (under 60hz) would never cause any sort of hearing damage on the flip side I would never listen to full range music for extended periods over 125-130 just my 2 cent great video
Parlor games aside, the RBH demos were incredible. Loved every second. RBH 7.3.4, Trinnov, JVC NZ900, Screen Innovations 135". Awesome guys to talk to. Best wishes.
Very cool! I'm sure I've never even heard TRUE infrasonics, because most speakers and subwoofers just don't go down below 20Hz with any real authority... I also wonder how this sub compares to the crazy HUGE, custom built, DUAL 33" subwoofers that Steve Meade from SMD has in his own house theater system!
Hi Gene love your video. I have a question , do you think I could use the RBH amp with the 24 intergrty sub passive ??? I would love to know what you think just like you I don’t want down to 8 single digits but a smooth clean bass
@@josealicea8691 hello! You could absolutely use our amps. The DA-2602DSP is an absolute beast with 4000 watts available at 4ohms bridged or 2200 watts 2 channels driven at 4 ohms. (Not sure what the SI sub's impedance is) Feel free to email or call us to discuss more.
A Clamshell Isobaric version with 2 x 21 inch drivers would make a lovely " compact " version with a smaller footprint and less cabinet influence. Proberly wouldnt need the internal damping either ...all the benefits of Isobaric ...half cabinet volume , and more structural rigidity. All in a sealed box , so no headache about how to tune the smaller box.
How s the mid bass on that sub. Usually bigger subs suffer from mid bass. Do u think two of those would give u enough that you could take our all the other subs and save money.
so you're paying a ton of money for the biggest ugliest thing on earth for.. what exactly. infrasonics? please tell me why we laugh at big bux cables but bass you literally can't hear is a thing. oh but you can feel it, I can feel my 4 sb2000s too. it's just audiophile nonsense for HT people. maybe I've invented something here, hmm. theaterphiles?
I think it's obvious from the CEA-2010 numbers that this is also an extremely capable sub above 20 Hz, and whether it's ugly is honestly too subjective to get into. I'll be the first to minimize the importance of infrasonics to the overall experience of a movie or a music track, and I'll even argue that chasing infrasonic output should strictly be something you do as a passion-project or because you have infinite money, because 99.9% of the time what you'll notice is that your infrasonic sub is also better or louder above 20, but it's pretty clear, to me, that this sub's ability to output massive pressure in a room at those low frequencies signifies incredible engineering, something no audiophile cable or super-tweeter or anything like that can really claim in the same way. I can generate 95 dB at 10 Hz at my listening seat from 4 on-wall 10" sealed subs, and I would never claim to hear that, and I can't say I've ever been in a room where I knew there was 120 dB of 10 Hz output, and I can't point to any studies done on the perceptibility of these frequencies in actual rooms, but I think the amount of energy and pressure that we're talking about makes it more likely that it *can* be perceptible than something like differences in cables or hi-res 48 kHz music files.
your response is well thought out and makes some good points. the engineering on this is amazing and I'm sure it is an insanely capable sub above 20. but I'm pretty sure the majority of people buying it are going to talk about how it goes down to 7 hz or whatever. and that's inaudible. the fact that it puts out a ton of inaudible sounds doesn't change that. when people hear this and say it sounds amazing they're right but it has nothing to do with "brown notes" 🙄 oh and I'm not being subjective, it's ugly. ask the wife 😂
@@itsratso. yes. By our ears. Doesn’t mean we can’t feel it, which is literally the whole point of infrasonics. It’s also why bass transducers are a thing.
Even i recently began shifting my subs to sealed ones after i just heard the difference right in my room!! Having a dayton ultimax 18", made a very big ported box around 16Cu ft. tuned to 15Hz. infrasonics were great but it always lacked something. then due to space constraints in my room decided to make it aa sealed hoping to sacrifice bass output, but to my surprise the bass cant get better than this. crossing the sub to the rest of the speakers was very easy without lacking any punch!!! infrasonics are still ok till 7Hz. So sealed is the way to go when u go big.
Back in 1988 I ran 2 separate 24inch subwoofers each with their own dedicated monoblock. The seemingly unlimited ultra Clean Power and Sub Bass they produced was nothing short of astounding.
Unfortunately, huge sealed subs are hard to get here in Europe. I somehow lucked out with my concrete box of a room, getting output down to 10hz from Arendal 1723 1V ported subs. Still not sure how. It definitely adds to the experience sometimes, but it doesn't seem like a lot of content makes use of it. I'd love to feel a comparison with huge sealed subs sometime.
@@Audioholics of course, I'm not trying to compete with a 21 inch sub with a 13 inch one :). It seems to me like there is an opportunity in Europe since there aren't really any huge sealed subs available, unless getting shipped from a US brand and importing yourself. But that gets way too expensive and comes with too many downsides. Then again, the total addressable market in Europe for those subs is probably really small. Homes are smaller, townhouses and apartments are more common, so for many people it's just not feasible.
Wonder how this sub would fair against something like the Funk Audio Ultra LFE 24" that @SpecOfTech reviewed, coz that thing was doing insane numbers of almost 127dB at 10Hz in room response at listening position. And seemed like it could still go on.
Funk or stereo integrity has more output. A 24 vs a 21 has roughly 400in squared more cone area which is 30% more. And slightly more xmax and xmech If you really wanna get off into the weeds, you can pull the 21 inch ts specs from pierce auido website and modle it again funk and SI in winisd.
A better comparison would be the Harbottle sealed L2 24 inch subwoofer vs the RBH. Both have similar excursion (38mm rbh vs 40mm one way for the Harbottle) both have neodymium magnets, carbon fiber cones, powerful amps but the harbottle is a 24 inch, so it has more cone surface area and a much nicer looking finish and also coming in at around the same price bracket. I would choose the Harbottle or Funk subwoofers over the RBH. Both Funk and Harbottle post CEA measurements for their subwoofers on their respective websites.
@@LeeLee-fi7mx I had completely forgotten about about that one, plus I thought since the driver in the Harbottle L2 24" was the same as the one in the Ultra LFE 24" or at least that's what @SpecOfTech mentioned in the video, might as well compare it to the RBH. And also I think I wanted to find out how the Ultra LFE might fare against the RBH Unrivaled 221 since it's a dual sealed.... The Ultra LFE doesn't have any CEA data on the site unless I missed it.
I built a sub that is good down to 7 hz. Got about 600 bucks in it including the 2400 watt plate amp with DSP. It is a 15" woofer that isn't made anymore. It has 27 mm xmax and it will do 121 db with extention down to 17 hz but will only do about 116 db with extension to 7 hz.
10dB increase below 20 Hz with *a single sealed sub* is absolutely insane. I don't subscribe much to infrasonic being that noticeable for most systems in most rooms, but it tells a story of just how much sheer output it has, to basically triple your output from what are already very capable subs. You don't mention it in the video, but did you level-match the system when turning the RBH on and off?
@@Audioholics, ah. I was watching on my phone, so didn't notice the minor gain. Your description gave the impression of substantial increase to perceived levels, and if all/most of that is from infrasonic increases, that's amazing
@@Clobercow1, well, yes, but actually no. Gene's system already has drivers outputting at the frequencies where room gain takes effect. The amount of room gain doesn't change because you throw more subs in a room, it's based on physical constants. So the 10dB increase at 10 Hz is extra energy in the system, plain and simple. It's also, one assumes unless the room is absolutely ginormous, well below any modal frequency, so it's not caused by any modal peak due to placement.
i had a 21 subwoofer driver in my youth, tiny sealed box, i enjoyed that for that years i had it. still have some infrasonic capability right now, 20 to 30hz is the audible low bass, but adding 15 to 20hz capability is a world of difference, some music or movies are losing a vital part without it. for music suggestion i got: Bassotronics - The Feeling Of Bass or this one if you have unlimited bass exention: Bass Test - Opus Dei
I use 5x12 inch drivers with 12.5mm xmax total sd around 2400cm2, but the single RBH wil play louder thats insane. Speakers and subwoofers are all sealed i like that also more then ported ones.
I’m surprised “infra” doesn’t get more attention.. in car audio, more and more SQ vehicles are using a 24”. Not bass heads either. 100% audiophile imaging and extension. IB cutout in the spare tire area. And even a 10” front sub. Or 8” midbass. The experience is other worldly. Queen Mary is a favorite for us as well.
Look at that b-roll! You goin' all in on RUclips now? Very stark difference from your old videos. I love the b-roll and seeing the speaker in action with those arrows and graphs. Looks great!
For the record when you herd that sub it was only running at half power all weekend long (1ch instead of bridge mode) the amp had a unexpected oops before the show 😬
Great sub. Pierce audio makes good drivers Sealed or ported tuned 10hz is the way to go. Of corse the 10hz tune cabinets by jtr, gsg, or diy are large. I run stereo integrity 24s in sealed cabinets with top notch bracing. Each driver sees plenty of voltage and 4k true rms on 240v.
What you described is what I've heard from a good dual IB sub set up. If you can do it room wise, an IB sub system can be done for much cheaper. This does sound like an amazing sub, if your wealthy.
At this rate we’ll need to build speakers in separate lighter parts that all latch together. A bass sample that stands out to me is in the first Dr Strange when he’s time looping with Dormamu there’s some nice base sweeps that cruise across the spectrum that get repeated by the scene, allowing for relaxed critical listening.
@@IanKnight40 Group delay is neither good or bad, it just is, and it's going to be different between speakers. There is no "integration" at 20hz between subwoofers. No matter what, you'll need to time align/phase correct if you really feel you have too
@@Clobercow1 in my experience as a professional loudspeaker engineer I can assure you that group delay is certainly a factor at all frequencies. My latest Dolby Atmos Professional designs have proved that in the field when integrating large Cinema systems.
@@Audionut74 It actually is legally classified as a tectonic weapon, however, I will never register it. I keep my power concealed until the time comes when the hell of 25 Hertz needs to be unleashed on the world. Yes, you heard me correctly 25 Hertz- enjoy your nightmares, It could happen at any time.
@@AudioholicsI recently saw a DIY build where they added a product used in automobile applications. Very dense squares that are self adhesive….it definitely changed the cabinet significantly. Alas, no testing for it….and it definitely won’t be as inert as your 300+ box. Gene gets all the toys.
I don't follow. As this DIY? You mean the the GSGAD 24" cabinet flat pack? Making a cabinet inert isn't hard, and isn't hat big of a deal when you're running the lower octave of bass. No one is going to hear the cabinet, but, if you insist on putting your statues on it and they not vibrate a little, then I guess you can spend 4x the money. Up to you.
I am running an SVS PB 2000pro in a 13x12 dedicated room. This sub is connected wirelessly. My next will probably be a DIY 15 or 18 but now maybe I can get 10 Hz in room with a sealed 15 (or 2). I also looked at the smaller RBH amp with DSP ($1200 is ok but 12k isn’t in the budget) and that seemed like it might have enough punch but it would be hard to not go plate amp with wireless. I see most DIY use Behringer or Crown ( mighty numbers but …). Thoughts?
Behringer and Crown amps have tons of low frequency roll off below 20hz. Not good if your looking for infrasonic bass. Better options at a decent price would be the powersoft and lab gruppen clone amps from sinbosen and sanway.
@@LeeLee-fi7mx- Crown's DriveCore 2 amplifiers do indeed have some rolloff below 20 Hz, but in terms of the transfer-function, we're talking about 1.5 dB at 10 Hz. Not that extreme IMO. I can't comment on whether it can also generate the voltage at that frequency to maintain output though.
If you're just listening to jazz or smelly cat, that's true. There is plenty of music with infrasonic bass that I'm rediscovering with this sub. I provided examples.
12k for a sub??? Cheap I consider from 50k upwards. 🤣🤣🤣 bargain...what are we saying here? 12k for just a sub...must be good I bet but that's crazy and the margin is also crazy as no sub should cost this much.
![Cody Johnson - I'm Gonna Love You (with Carrie Underwood) [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/yy9PuYMU29g/mqdefault.jpg)
Considering how new homes are constructed two of these would literally bring the house down
❤❤❤ IT ,,,,you can never have to MUCH BASSSS😊😊😊😊
I keep hearing about craks in walls and now building falling down😂🎉
I'm going to have to call BS. On that if it was commercial type audio equipment that would be in a professional sound system Maybe so.
@@TheNLHAZE found the guy who's great at parties
I can vouch for the cracks you will get in your drywall.
I have a JTR 6000ULF
Flat down to 5hz @ 100Db. 380lbs. What a beauty. Id be transformed as well. Im using 4x 15" and 4x 12" all sealed. All budget
Infrasonic bass adds in another layer of depth, immersion and enjoyment that would immediately be missed once you experience it, then take it away. Once you experience deep clean infrasonic bass, it’s hard to give it up and go back to smaller subs.
I've had sealed subwoofers for 20 years now.
When I hear normal, ported subs... all I hear is single-note peak with lots of port sound at the low end.
Incredible video Gene! This subwoofer is next level!
What a beast. The Brown Note. 😆😆
Damn…. I was hooked until the $12k reveal 😂
I know, ita no small amount 😞
@@Audioholics I spent a good deal on my Paradigm XR13 - but $12k for a sub is a bit out of my price range at this point.
I would be curious how some of the DIY options from Stereo Integrity would stack up against this thing.
I think you can get dual jtr rs2's or dual captivator 4000ulf's for less🤷🏾♂️
@rayc9838 my friend Brian Hager had the dual JTR and sold and got the dual RBH and likes it much better. You get what you pay for not that JTR is bad, however.
@Audioholics 10k would be my limit. I just figures 2 jtrs would be better than 1 rbh(for my pocket 😆)
Th song Queen 👸🏻 Mary has been a revelation in my system. Please Gene 🧬 can you kindly do an entire playlist of SONGS (not Albums) and tell us to listen to Particular parts for good bass/mids/highs. Do an entire hour…but only songs NOT albums :)😅
You got it. I've got lots, as does Don Dunn.
@@Audioholics thanks Gene 🧬!! Look 👀 forward to it. The 3-Dimensional queen mary song (on repeat) makes me a tad mad at why every song is not recorded like this 😂
That queen Mary song is amazing! Thanks for the recommendation!
OMG! Somebody finally used the correct term, “infrasonic”, instead of the common but, entirely wrong, “subsonic”. Subsonic means below the speed of sound. Lately I’ve seen subsonic being used much more than infrasonic but, that doesn’t make it correct. Thank you Gene for getting it right!
Glad you said that! You are totally correct! It's exactly the same with infrared with respect to sight.
What about the Thigpen designed infrasonic device? More compact and just as impactful
Sounds great (pun intended). I'm happy with my home built IB sub. Eight 15" drivers. A friend played the Bass Mechanik CD, and it was rattling the room at 3 Hz. Materials cost was more like $2700. Weight equivalent: The drivers alone weigh 280 lbs. Factoring in the weight of the front baffles (2.25" thick) and the concrete slab underneath brings the total weight to over 3000 lbs.
I have a Pierce Audio 21" Subwoofer powered by 2 Crown XLS 2500's into One Subwoofer it's 4800 watts RMS.
Holy crap! It makes the reviewer look like he's 2 feet tall!! Is he?
Yep, I'm just a tad taller than 2ft which is inconvenient when I want to go to theme parks :(
Gene, I really like the way this review was shot and edited. You look like you're having fun and all the cuts keep it interesting to watch. I could watch this over and over!
Thanks, really appreciate that. My good friend Brad from @hometheatergamer is helping with our produced videos now.
I wonder what Ascendo Audio’s 50” sub would sound like….
they should just call it Gravitas Mc-Boom-Boom
OMG and Shiver Me Timbers Gene !
Do be careful. It's well known that ultra deep bass can cause a loss of sphincter control and cause you to dirty yourself!
Sal1950
I have a Pierce Audio 21" Subwoofer powered by 2 Crown XLS 2500's its 4800 watts RMS
Incase anyone wants a crazy sub probably the beast of a driver is Peerless STW 350 ideal for sealed
I would love to see a build with that.
I'm so obsessed with having my own dedicated home theater. But man yeah I have got to have maybe 4 people to carry two subwoofers down to the basement... Such heavyweight subs makes me even more obsessed with home theaters. ;)
Gene ... this sub (and its dual cousin) is what dreams are made. But I have a bone ot pick regarding the group delay measurements you posted. You MUST mention taht these excellent GP measurements are pre-EQ or without equalization. The moment you add EQ to battle room modes etc, the GP curve go to pot as well. This makes it best to EQ in the preceeding AV pre-pro using its automated room eq and leave the sub alone. Makes sense? How about have GP curves pre and post EQ? Thanks!
accurate group delay measurements must be taken anechoic. The idea is build a system w low GD to do less harm with EQ. Most of the EQ done was for cuts not boots so that should NOT negatively affect GD.
"what is your favorite bass tracks, what are your favorite movie scenes with infrasounds"...
Aka: feed me a list of infrasonic effects to enjoy my new infrasonic monster. 😂
Try the scene in “War of the Worlds” (2005) where the Martians first come out of the ground. Also, the Saturn 5 launch of Apollo 13 in “Apollo 13” (1995).
at some point, subwoofers will have internal pistons that move in antiphase with the driver for recoil cancelation xD.
basicly a second driver pointing backwards that is totaly enclosed and has no cone.
I do have infrasonic capabilties. With 2x18s sealed i can barely do 110db at 8 hz at the listening position. Now i'm running 4x 18s sealed, i haven't measured what i can do as i don't need to. The subs run at 25% of their power, they barely even move at -8db on movies like the Ready Player One.
For bass scenes, i use the:
Overlord the planes in the beginning.
Interstellar the black hole scene.
Fury.
(For that 12k USD, i can buy maybe get 14 of the 18 inch ultimax, build boxes for them, mini dsp HD and amps.
With 14 subs, they would probably excurt no more than 1mm, there will be 0 distortion as the cones won't move, no need to worry about the cabinet shaking, and because they are 14 of othem, the cone area will be soooo big, i won't need tooo much amplification as well. But it will take forever to build.
fun fact: more woofer cone the less loud you have to play to get physical impact of the bass.
that also means less eq needed for deep bass extension.
This thing moves as much air as 6-8 pretty good 12 inch subs.
You asked for bass tracks people listen to....try tje group JUSTICE.songs Genesis.or Phantom....plus Deadmau5..My heart has teeth
Try the song middle child by j cole it has a really deep note that is intoxicating
You cant hide from this bass 4ever!
Well, Gene, maybe I am "Clinically Insane" for a duel 21 but, it will just be a matter of time before you finally give in! I am sure you do know your already 99% there, all thats separating you from us excessive sub bass heads is another 21inchs and 4000 watts 😂
Sounds like infra snake oil. What’s with these dumb names for subwoofers. And what’s with the junk home audio subwoofers.
Wow, Thank you for your input and your contribution to this topic it has been such a wealth of knowledge and it clearly sounds like It originated from a very educated stance indeed! 😂
Hmm. I wonder if they could make a custom cabinet that's actually a couch? That's the only way I could fit this monster in my room. But I don't have $12k more to spend on audio gear for the foreseeable future anyway..
All that nice equipment, and a lonely almost expired 360. Heh…
@jyoung3801 my Xbox One is in the family room along with my Commodore 64, Atari VCS and Nintendo Wii. 😆 🤣
Cult of the infinitely baffled 🤫
Con un 12" ya tengo a la policía llamando a la puerta, con este me viene el ejército😂.
Tremendo subwoofer.
I don't like doing this because I was really liking the specs on this speaker, right up until the $12,000 price. I design and build this stuff and I'm not saying it's a bad product but I can build the exact same thing by hand for half that price and make a fat profit. $6,000 would be a reasonable price.
You can't simply build the cabinet the way they did it. On that note, the same can be said about any consumer good. You could make a meal at home cheaper than eating out too.
@@Audioholics I'm not trying to be hyperbolic I'm just saying I worked for JBL back in the 90's and have been a Machinist and fabricator for custom one off's of various arts and media and been designing and building audio systems for decades amongst other accolades, so I'll say it again I can build that cab and driver with amp for half the cost and performance equal too or greater. What's being achieved by that cabinet is nothing special at $12,000 dollars.
I'm truly and honestly not trying to be rude about it it's just the truth and charging people ridiculous money for simple things is criminal but if they're willing then that's on them and more power to you. I just know I wouldn't be able to sleep at night if I charged my clients that kind of money for that.
@jedpetersen3806 OK, then do it and start a subwoofer company. I'm still waiting for JBL to make a consumer subwoofer that has a meaningful output below 25hz. That's definitely not happening with their premium brand Revel.
@@Audioholics Agreed JBL doesn't provide a cab or driver that does much below 30. They really don't feel like it's necessary, I don't feel the same way. In my experience there's a fair amount of energy below that point that adds to the experience of sound in home theater and even music. As far as starting a company I've been down that road and it's not something just anybody can do, primarily because it involves a lot smoke and mirror BS like what Bose does too sell enough quantity to be profitable and industry standard markup for most audio is in the 200% range and if that's what is required to keep the doors open it's not for me. What would be a great video from companies is a transparent educational on the business side of the audio world so maybe you can do that for the next video. I truly do hope this company succeeds and in the future we're not stuck with sourcing our components from China and the market allows the consumer to buy American MADE 100% Products and companies can prosper and consumers get fair value's. Chinese restaurants make tasty food but I make mine at home without the MSG.
Gravitas ….maximus . I didn’t know gloria was sick ?
Drake? Really? Have some self respect Gene.
😆 No Friends in the Industry is the story of my.life 😅
Ripping the fabric of time and space with that Maximus. RBH and Gene thanks for this showcase 👏
Gene demo BASS I LOVE with that set up. Let us know ur result.
Would you recommend this sub if you have a pair of electro stats (specifically magnepans lrs). I wonder if it’s too much or or if the amount of air moving from the sub could damage the speakers. Thanks
Absolutely, and that should not be a problem.
Bass track -
Fading Sun
Song by Terje Isungset
Hi, I wanted to ask if you have tried Ascendo or are thinking of trying them ?
I never really had the desire to try Ascendo speakers, but maybe I'll check them out at a tradeshow.
I bought a Stereo Integrity 18" subwoofer and it''s in a cardboard Tube from Lowe's which just cost me about $25. I use it for my car.
The interesting fact about tube is that despite being lightweight and thin, it's almost impossible to stretch and compress the walls making tube the most ideal enclosure you can get for a car audio system. I'm not a fan of making a huge bulky heavy square wooden box which you have to brace the hell out of to avoid the walls flexing. And can be $300 or more where my tube enclosure did not pass $50 and is super strong. I don't need to go through any of those nonsensical hurdles using tube. As long as the front and rear baffle is strong enough, your good to go. (I can't find a concave structure which is the strongest to use as the rear for the enclosure)
My 18" tube is about 30" long with a 100" long ported system and it's all tuned to about 17Hz.
17Hz is where the car windows flex the most and is amazing for what it is.
Mixed with ported. How long did that take? That may be the way to go. You get that output of a ported and subterranean Db of sealed.
I agree. Ported up front away from the listeners. Sealed back of room. It took some work but worth it.
Great timing. I got to hear this RBH 21 SF/R subwoofer myself today at MWAVE. Also 2nd time this year I experienced the RBH SVTRS-FRS towers. One of the rooms here hit 140db tonight. lol.
Anyone sitting in 140db SPL demos has instant hearing damage in minutes.
Hearing protection supplied and required. All signed a waiver. This is inside of a conference center, not a hotel, so massive cu.ft. room. Our crew is 155db capable. Recommend double hearing protection. lol
@@Audioholics140db of bass (under 60hz) would never cause any sort of hearing damage on the flip side I would never listen to full range music for extended periods over 125-130 just my 2 cent great video
@mpageaustin I wouldn't Subject myself to 140db bass or especially fullrange. I prefer sound quality and preserving my sanity over an SPL competition.
Parlor games aside, the RBH demos were incredible. Loved every second. RBH 7.3.4, Trinnov, JVC NZ900, Screen Innovations 135". Awesome guys to talk to. Best wishes.
OMG!! Exciting times to be audio!!
Very cool! I'm sure I've never even heard TRUE infrasonics, because most speakers and subwoofers just don't go down below 20Hz with any real authority...
I also wonder how this sub compares to the crazy HUGE, custom built, DUAL 33" subwoofers that Steve Meade from SMD has in his own house theater system!
When is the HSU review coming out?
Hi Gene love your video. I have a question , do you think I could use the RBH amp with the 24 intergrty sub passive ??? I would love to know what you think just like you I don’t want down to 8 single digits but a smooth clean bass
Absolutely. You just need to adjust the boost and limitors properly to get the most out of the sub without it overloading under high stress.
@@josealicea8691 hello! You could absolutely use our amps. The DA-2602DSP is an absolute beast with 4000 watts available at 4ohms bridged or 2200 watts 2 channels driven at 4 ohms. (Not sure what the SI sub's impedance is) Feel free to email or call us to discuss more.
Dampening is to make something wet. Damping is in reference to the decreasing the amplitude of an oscillation. Common mistake.
I know I said it wrong shooting the video, but it's not that big of a deal. I shot this video in one take and no script, so cut me some slack 😊
@@Audioholics Slack is definitely cut. More so a heads up on a mistake I have made myself many times.
A Clamshell Isobaric version with 2 x 21 inch drivers would make a lovely " compact " version with a smaller footprint and less cabinet influence. Proberly wouldnt need the internal damping either ...all the benefits of Isobaric ...half cabinet volume , and more structural rigidity. All in a sealed box , so no headache about how to tune the smaller box.
I like isobaric subs, but you lose efficiency to gain extension.
@@Audioholics Yes, the trade off!.
Why don't you need 2 of these subs?
Below 25Hz you're not dealing with traditional room modes and standing waves, so you're getting that infrasonic bass independent of seating location.
@@Audioholics That makes a lot of sense! Interesting.
How s the mid bass on that sub. Usually bigger subs suffer from mid bass. Do u think two of those would give u enough that you could take our all the other subs and save money.
They should only be played to 80hz. I still like having subs in my mains crossed over around 125hz to get thr mid bass punch.
@@Audioholics I agree I wouldn't sacrifice mid Bass for deep infra sonic. I think we need to have a mix of both.
so you're paying a ton of money for the biggest ugliest thing on earth for.. what exactly. infrasonics? please tell me why we laugh at big bux cables but bass you literally can't hear is a thing. oh but you can feel it, I can feel my 4 sb2000s too. it's just audiophile nonsense for HT people. maybe I've invented something here, hmm. theaterphiles?
I think it's obvious from the CEA-2010 numbers that this is also an extremely capable sub above 20 Hz, and whether it's ugly is honestly too subjective to get into.
I'll be the first to minimize the importance of infrasonics to the overall experience of a movie or a music track, and I'll even argue that chasing infrasonic output should strictly be something you do as a passion-project or because you have infinite money, because 99.9% of the time what you'll notice is that your infrasonic sub is also better or louder above 20, but it's pretty clear, to me, that this sub's ability to output massive pressure in a room at those low frequencies signifies incredible engineering, something no audiophile cable or super-tweeter or anything like that can really claim in the same way.
I can generate 95 dB at 10 Hz at my listening seat from 4 on-wall 10" sealed subs, and I would never claim to hear that, and I can't say I've ever been in a room where I knew there was 120 dB of 10 Hz output, and I can't point to any studies done on the perceptibility of these frequencies in actual rooms, but I think the amount of energy and pressure that we're talking about makes it more likely that it *can* be perceptible than something like differences in cables or hi-res 48 kHz music files.
your response is well thought out and makes some good points. the engineering on this is amazing and I'm sure it is an insanely capable sub above 20. but I'm pretty sure the majority of people buying it are going to talk about how it goes down to 7 hz or whatever. and that's inaudible. the fact that it puts out a ton of inaudible sounds doesn't change that. when people hear this and say it sounds amazing they're right but it has nothing to do with "brown notes" 🙄
oh and I'm not being subjective, it's ugly. ask the wife 😂
It’s obvious someone doesn’t understand infrasonics…
@@BPipkins 🙄 it's literally in the name. it's below detection.
@@itsratso. yes. By our ears. Doesn’t mean we can’t feel it, which is literally the whole point of infrasonics. It’s also why bass transducers are a thing.
Even i recently began shifting my subs to sealed ones after i just heard the difference right in my room!!
Having a dayton ultimax 18", made a very big ported box around 16Cu ft. tuned to 15Hz. infrasonics were great but it always lacked something.
then due to space constraints in my room decided to make it aa sealed hoping to sacrifice bass output, but to my surprise the bass cant get better than this. crossing the sub to the rest of the speakers was very easy without lacking any punch!!! infrasonics are still ok till 7Hz.
So sealed is the way to go when u go big.
Back in 1988 I ran 2 separate 24inch subwoofers each with their own dedicated monoblock. The seemingly unlimited ultra Clean Power and Sub Bass they produced was nothing short of astounding.
1:05 🥵🥵🥵🥵🥵
Unfortunately, huge sealed subs are hard to get here in Europe. I somehow lucked out with my concrete box of a room, getting output down to 10hz from Arendal 1723 1V ported subs. Still not sure how.
It definitely adds to the experience sometimes, but it doesn't seem like a lot of content makes use of it. I'd love to feel a comparison with huge sealed subs sometime.
It also matters at what output level. This sub can hit 120db peaks, most can't, especially at low F.
@@Audioholics of course, I'm not trying to compete with a 21 inch sub with a 13 inch one :).
It seems to me like there is an opportunity in Europe since there aren't really any huge sealed subs available, unless getting shipped from a US brand and importing yourself. But that gets way too expensive and comes with too many downsides.
Then again, the total addressable market in Europe for those subs is probably really small. Homes are smaller, townhouses and apartments are more common, so for many people it's just not feasible.
Gene are u guys checking out stereo integrity 24 sub woofer?
Wonder how this sub would fair against something like the Funk Audio Ultra LFE 24" that @SpecOfTech reviewed, coz that thing was doing insane numbers of almost 127dB at 10Hz in room response at listening position. And seemed like it could still go on.
In room spl vs anechoic are much different things. Can't directly compare.
@@Audioholics It looks and obviously sounds insane, I'm sure you enjoyed every moment.
Funk or stereo integrity has more output. A 24 vs a 21 has roughly 400in squared more cone area which is 30% more. And slightly more xmax and xmech
If you really wanna get off into the weeds, you can pull the 21 inch ts specs from pierce auido website and modle it again funk and SI in winisd.
A better comparison would be the Harbottle sealed L2 24 inch subwoofer vs the RBH. Both have similar excursion (38mm rbh vs 40mm one way for the Harbottle) both have neodymium magnets, carbon fiber cones, powerful amps but the harbottle is a 24 inch, so it has more cone surface area and a much nicer looking finish and also coming in at around the same price bracket. I would choose the Harbottle or Funk subwoofers over the RBH. Both Funk and Harbottle post CEA measurements for their subwoofers on their respective websites.
@@LeeLee-fi7mx I had completely forgotten about about that one, plus I thought since the driver in the Harbottle L2 24" was the same as the one in the Ultra LFE 24" or at least that's what @SpecOfTech mentioned in the video, might as well compare it to the RBH. And also I think I wanted to find out how the Ultra LFE might fare against the RBH Unrivaled 221 since it's a dual sealed.... The Ultra LFE doesn't have any CEA data on the site unless I missed it.
Loving how real and surprising “comfortable “ infrasonic feels. It’s just great.
A good song that has bass that most people can't experience due to the bass limitations of most system...., Tyga. In This Thang.
I built a sub that is good down to 7 hz. Got about 600 bucks in it including the 2400 watt plate amp with DSP. It is a 15" woofer that isn't made anymore. It has 27 mm xmax and it will do 121 db with extention down to 17 hz but will only do about 116 db with extension to 7 hz.
Amazing video, I love how you showed the different movies you watched
That's insane! What are my neighbors going to say, I live in a small apartment! 😅
10dB increase below 20 Hz with *a single sealed sub* is absolutely insane. I don't subscribe much to infrasonic being that noticeable for most systems in most rooms, but it tells a story of just how much sheer output it has, to basically triple your output from what are already very capable subs.
You don't mention it in the video, but did you level-match the system when turning the RBH on and off?
For real, it's legit. No, the 21 sub increases overall bass output 1-2db above 20hz, as you can see in the graphs.
@@Audioholics, ah. I was watching on my phone, so didn't notice the minor gain.
Your description gave the impression of substantial increase to perceived levels, and if all/most of that is from infrasonic increases, that's amazing
@@TokeBoisen correct, something I wasn't expecting for music.
It's room gain.
@@Clobercow1, well, yes, but actually no.
Gene's system already has drivers outputting at the frequencies where room gain takes effect. The amount of room gain doesn't change because you throw more subs in a room, it's based on physical constants. So the 10dB increase at 10 Hz is extra energy in the system, plain and simple. It's also, one assumes unless the room is absolutely ginormous, well below any modal frequency, so it's not caused by any modal peak due to placement.
Bring Hugo Back
Hugo moved to Spain to pursue his dreams of becoming a bull fighter.
I have 1-15”, 2-12” and 2-3/10” all sealed. Great for movies and music.
12K 😢
i had a 21 subwoofer driver in my youth, tiny sealed box, i enjoyed that for that years i had it.
still have some infrasonic capability right now, 20 to 30hz is the audible low bass, but adding 15 to 20hz capability is a world of difference, some music or movies are losing a vital part without it.
for music suggestion i got:
Bassotronics - The Feeling Of Bass
or this one if you have unlimited bass exention: Bass Test - Opus Dei
I use 5x12 inch drivers with 12.5mm xmax total sd around 2400cm2, but the single RBH wil play louder thats insane.
Speakers and subwoofers are all sealed i like that also more then ported ones.
I’m surprised “infra” doesn’t get more attention.. in car audio, more and more SQ vehicles are using a 24”. Not bass heads either. 100% audiophile imaging and extension. IB cutout in the spare tire area. And even a 10” front sub. Or 8” midbass. The experience is other worldly. Queen Mary is a favorite for us as well.
Loved the video Gene. My favorite part was seein the outtakes. "This is a big m*********ing grill..." Love to see it and love the videos.
Look at that b-roll! You goin' all in on RUclips now? Very stark difference from your old videos. I love the b-roll and seeing the speaker in action with those arrows and graphs. Looks great!
Love to see a demo of edge of tomorrow intro, yes I know what most people might think but that’s what I use to test and demo subs.
Got a chance to hear this yesterday and considering the room it was in I came away impressed.
For the record when you herd that sub it was only running at half power all weekend long (1ch instead of bridge mode) the amp had a unexpected oops before the show 😬
Yep! Developed a relatively small twin 18s. They were went down to around 12hz but had bigger cabinets. Probably not nearly as efficient.
Nice compacts!😆
Gynormic? Who gave you poetic license?
I’ve seen bigger subwoofers in cars how do they rate on your scale ?
Mass without class
@@Audioholics so for 11k what would you build there is better components out there for that price
2:17 "A Qts of around .7." Perhaps you mean a Qb of 0.7. A woofer with a Qts of 0.7 would be useless in an acoustic suspension cabinet.
yea I meant the system damping with driver/enclosure integration.
@@Audioholics I'd love to hear that thing play!
The Barbie movie should sound great.
Great sub. Pierce audio makes good drivers
Sealed or ported tuned 10hz is the way to go. Of corse the 10hz tune cabinets by jtr, gsg, or diy are large.
I run stereo integrity 24s in sealed cabinets with top notch bracing. Each driver sees plenty of voltage and 4k true rms on 240v.
I run 3x Monolith 13 THX subs and damn that Drake track really put the structural integrety of my house to the test.😵💫
10 db below 20hz is a lot. U571, Rogue One kind of fun.
What you described is what I've heard from a good dual IB sub set up. If you can do it room wise, an IB sub system can be done for much cheaper. This does sound like an amazing sub, if your wealthy.
Lookin' Buff Gene, wanna wrestle?
Ginormic. I guess that's a new word to coincide with maximus. It's obvious that you were entertained by this massive subsonic air blaster.
This or the Perlisten D215?
I don't want to know what they cost up here in Canada! Anyone into DIY would consider this a colossal rip off!
Again, what did they feed that thing? (just helping the algorithm)
It’s so pretty. My precious
At this rate we’ll need to build speakers in separate lighter parts that all latch together.
A bass sample that stands out to me is in the first Dr Strange when he’s time looping with Dormamu there’s some nice base sweeps that cruise across the spectrum that get repeated by the scene, allowing for relaxed critical listening.
Sorry, but I don't buy that anyone can hear group delay that low in frequency.
You could if it got nasty. The best sounding subs ALWAYS have low group delay...
bBll Fitzmaurice , quiet as he has been, had a lot to say about the importance 0 or not- of group delay
Good group delay performance aids integration with all the other speakers in the system. It is not all about the low frequencies.
@@IanKnight40 Group delay is neither good or bad, it just is, and it's going to be different between speakers. There is no "integration" at 20hz between subwoofers. No matter what, you'll need to time align/phase correct if you really feel you have too
@@Clobercow1 in my experience as a professional loudspeaker engineer I can assure you that group delay is certainly a factor at all frequencies. My latest Dolby Atmos Professional designs have proved that in the field when integrating large Cinema systems.
My 10-in Martin Logan Dynamo 700 would absolutely destroy this thing. It wouldn't even be close. Peasants.
Oh wow, a Dynamo 700 🤯 you should get that sub registered with the USGS for everyone's safety 😉
@@Audionut74 It actually is legally classified as a tectonic weapon, however, I will never register it. I keep my power concealed until the time comes when the hell of 25 Hertz needs to be unleashed on the world. Yes, you heard me correctly 25 Hertz- enjoy your nightmares, It could happen at any time.
I'd like it if ya took off the speaker so we can have a look on the inside to see how it is constructed.
GSGAD 24" cabinet plus a 24" woofer for 1/4 the price for better performance, if you don't mind building it yourself.
Lol
Learn how to cut wood yourself and axe gsg or ur still getting ripped off.
"Better" based on what? More output? There's no way you're building a cabinet as inert as this DIY.
@@AudioholicsI recently saw a DIY build where they added a product used in automobile applications. Very dense squares that are self adhesive….it definitely changed the cabinet significantly. Alas, no testing for it….and it definitely won’t be as inert as your 300+ box. Gene gets all the toys.
I don't follow. As this DIY? You mean the the GSGAD 24" cabinet flat pack? Making a cabinet inert isn't hard, and isn't hat big of a deal when you're running the lower octave of bass. No one is going to hear the cabinet, but, if you insist on putting your statues on it and they not vibrate a little, then I guess you can spend 4x the money. Up to you.
I am running an SVS PB 2000pro in a 13x12 dedicated room. This sub is connected wirelessly. My next will probably be a DIY 15 or 18 but now maybe I can get 10 Hz in room with a sealed 15 (or 2). I also looked at the smaller RBH amp with DSP ($1200 is ok but 12k isn’t in the budget) and that seemed like it might have enough punch but it would be hard to not go plate amp with wireless. I see most DIY use Behringer or Crown ( mighty numbers but …). Thoughts?
Behringer and Crown amps have tons of low frequency roll off below 20hz. Not good if your looking for infrasonic bass. Better options at a decent price would be the powersoft and lab gruppen clone amps from sinbosen and sanway.
@@LeeLee-fi7mx- Crown's DriveCore 2 amplifiers do indeed have some rolloff below 20 Hz, but in terms of the transfer-function, we're talking about 1.5 dB at 10 Hz. Not that extreme IMO. I can't comment on whether it can also generate the voltage at that frequency to maintain output though.
@TokeBoisen You are correct about the Crown. The rolloff is slight at 20hz but at 10hz and below it really starts to drop off.
Most music 🎶 does not go deeper than 40hz.20hz below human hearing.
If you're just listening to jazz or smelly cat, that's true. There is plenty of music with infrasonic bass that I'm rediscovering with this sub. I provided examples.
Smelly cat.im not american. Dont understand sorry.piano goes deap😅organ.yes i like jazz😊and classical 😅your talking about film muziek. Not muziek
@@ChrisTaylor-dz6nk EDM and electronic music has sub 20Hz bass. I also listen to Jazz but when I go with electronic music, I like the infrasonics :)
12k for a sub??? Cheap I consider from 50k upwards. 🤣🤣🤣 bargain...what are we saying here? 12k for just a sub...must be good I bet but that's crazy and the margin is also crazy as no sub should cost this much.
WHAT?
2nd like,, Gene your joy has really picked up lately pretty cool 😎, like it, but that enclosure. .....That's freaking too big 😮😅❤
Thanks and agreed. I may move it to behind my second row of seats on my riser. Takes 3 people though. 😆
@@Audioholics 🤣🤣🤣👍