Thank you I happen to come into this commentary, and I thank you for applying yourself. I just want to say God bless I'm smiling I'm proud of you and thank you for applying yourself to such greatness God bless
We are not Northern Africans.. We come from West/Central Africa.. Why doesn't anyone ever talk about early Christianity in West/Central Africa. They always talk about the North African's introduction to Christianity but never talk about our introduction to Christianity.. Why is that?
In my experience, I have only ever heard of the introduction of Christianity to west/Central Africans via slavery as a way to “prove” that Christianity is a “white mans religion”. Not until I learned about Christianity in Northern Africa that I learned this is not necessarily the case. Christianity civilized even white pagan nations. So how is it just a white mans religion
Yes I'm from Ethiopia and the "bisrat" is the amharic word for "good news" or "gospel" as brother bantu said. Ethiopia was the first nation to accept Christianity in the world . ( Act 8 ) Christianity became the official religion in the 4th century while the Europeans were living barbaric life.
Ethiopians were not practicing Christianity until Saint Frumentius introduced the Ethiopians to Jesus. Whenever you see a Saint at the beginning of someone's name, you know you are dealing with a European Religious Institution... In fact when St. Frumentius visited Alexandria Egypt, St. Athanasius ordained Frumentius bishop and told him to initiate the cultural adaptation of Greek Christianity’s biblical-liturgical texts to Ethiopic symbols and language. There is no Christianity in any African nation without a European missionary or colonizer telling the Africans to start their Christian Institution.
@@DJ-uc8mkSomeone is ignoring the Gospel here. Christianity might had come to Ethopia, according to you, in the 4th century.... which was nothing but the European view of the Faith. However according to our Bible the Christian Faith was introduced to Ethiopians in the 1st century. Philip de evangelist baptized the 1st Ethiopian in the 1st century.
The Middle East is not a continent. If North African Christianity descended from Phoenician people who are not "Negroid" then we must progress to talk about evangelism in Africa proper and how it did not end but continues to this very day! There is an apostolic line originating from the apostle Philip. Acts 8 tells of Philip and the Ethiopian eunuch who went back to the Ethiopian Queen and told her about Christ. Both were Jews and accepted Christ. Haile Selassie was a Christian monarch.
"Both were Jews? See this is the problem. The eunuch and Queen where not Jews. And let me explain why. The book of Acts is about the spread of the gospel and the progression from Jews to non Jews and the Apostles radically having their theology changed because they were conservative. Even "poor" Peter had to have his ideology changed by a vision given to him by Jesus. Many cite Revelation 2:9 and 3:9 per some Jews not being authentic. But somehow high hurdle Peters vision from the same Jesus as it relates to non Jews, commonly called Gentiles to obtain Salvation since God is "no respecter of persons" Acts 10:34. Show it reveals many having present day biases and imposes those biases on the text. The will of God is "all be saved" 1st Timothy 2:1-5, and that is by faith in Jesus. I dare anyone to go to someone outside their race and preach God's Love through Jesus and see what happens! That is if they know Him and His Christ. Philip went to the Ethiopian. Acts 8th chapter. Why the distinction? Was it necessary? Yes it was and probably for us today to show the Grace of God to all!
A very good presentation. But, I will raise two arguments. First, I don't believe the people of North Africa were not yet a distinct ethnic group during the Greco-Roman period. There was still an indigenous black African presence that was a part of the population. I agree that the Phoenicians mixed with the indigenous people. But, the mixture of people was still evident. Dr. Harold Snowden's books, Blacks in Antiquity and Before Color Prejudice, has several artistic examples and some stories showing evidence that there was still a black population, although small. David Wilhite's Ancient African Christianity also supports this on pages 64-65. While I understand your stance against using colonialist terms, I think "Sub-Saharan African" was not a description used in the ancient world and should not have been used in this discussion. Secondly, Christianity in North Africa didn't immediately disappear with the arrival of the Arabs and Islam. Citing Wilhite on pages 330-334, Arabs were still trying to suppress the faith as late as the 12th century with forced conversions being instituted in 1159 AD. While Egypt and Ethiopia were blessed with very strong monastic traditions, this was largely absent in North Africa. Not only Wilhite notes this (pgs. 342,343), But, as an Orthodox Christian myself, I haven't really found any monastic works from that region (Thelassios of Libya in the Philokalia Vol. 2, but that's it).
Anyway you can edit this and add the slides? Just staring at Dr. Bantu kind of takes away from the presentation when he is referencing slides that we can't see. Love the ministry. God bless 🙏
When the Ethiopian eunuch in Acts 8 was baptized by the Apostle Phillip, the eunuch went back to the Queen of Ethiopia and told her about the Messiah. Question why he was reading the Hebrew prophets in the first place: he was a Beta Israel (house of IsraEl), or what some people call the derogatory term Falasha. The Kebra Negast (Book of Kings) tells the story of how the Queen of Sheba stayed 6 months with King Solomon and returned to her country. She discovered she was pregnant. No way a woman that beautiful and smart Solomon was not going to hit that, right? Also, that is how kings became allies with other countries. The Ethiopian Tewahdo church is said to be the result of the eunuch from Acts 8 telling the Queen about the Messiah, making Christianity the national religion. King Lalibela had churches carved out of one solid stone into the shape of a cross. St. Mary's church in Axum in which it is reported to have the Ark of the Covenant under 24 hour guard. Look up how Athanasius made Frumentius a bishop.
It says that Athanasius commissioned Frumentius to initiate the cultural adaptation of Greek Christianity's biblical -liturgical texts to Ethiopic symbols and language and this is when Ethiopia became a Christian nation
@@DJ-uc8mk The translation from Greek text to Ge'ez is the same as the manuscript translation from Greek to English. Oral evangelism and preaching proceeded the written text. What you are saying is like there were no Christians before the Gospels were written down, which is illogical.
@@imanimalaika7734 I didn't say anything. I just repeated what the information was. I didnt know how Athanasius made Frumentius a bishop. So i just looked it up and thats what it said. Oral traditions always come before the institution.. But after St. Frumentius was told to start the adaptation of Greek Christianity's biblical-liturgical texts to Ethiopic symbols and language, Christianity became an institution in Ethiopia. After that is when you get the literature and the drawings of Jesus and the building of their Christian Churches. It seems like Athanasius and Frumentius had a bigger influence on Christianity in Ethiopia than Mark which is very interesting to me. I wonder why Ethiopia did not adopted Christianity after their interaction with Mark but waited 300 years later after dealing with Athanasius and Frumentius. It seems that after Mark dealt with the Ethiopians, the Ethiopians kept practicing Judaism and Paganism by worshiping some snake
@@DJ-uc8mk All I ask is that you think critically about what you read. Writers usually have a bias that is reflected in their work. What you found is a good example of that - it just does not make sense. Unfortunately, we cannot take everything we read at face value. Half-truths are more believable since most people will not take the time to think about what they read.
@@imanimalaika7734 I agree with you when you say one should read things with a critical mind. And i do agree that some writers might have biased.. But i think readers have biases too.. For example. A believer may tell me to read with a critical mind and we all know that writers are capable of being biased.. But does a believer apply that same critical mind when they read stories about talking animals and 900 year old men. Surely if a believer can believe the book of genesis as historical literature with zero historical evidence - One can believe that Frumentius was told to push Greek Christianity's biblical-liturgical texts to Ethiopian people. It seems like we critical when we read things that we dont agree with.. And we apply faith when we read things that really dont make any sense. I personally feel that literature makes the claim and the claim is verified in the field. I can look in the field and see the Greek dominance and strong influence in the Christian faith.. I can see that the oldest completed old testament that we have is in Greek.. I can see that the gospels were first written in Greek. So when i read that Frumentius was told to adopt the Greek Christianity's biblical-liturgical texts for the Ethiopians, I can accept that. But when i apply that critical mind to the book of genesis, i am told not to lean on my own reasoning and to read with faith. Question for you: You say that it does not make sense.. What part of Frumentius being told to adapt the Greek Christianity's biblical-liturgical texts doesn't make sense? Im sure you have an angle that i am overlooking...
Amazighs were not christianized, christianity in north africa was strong in the coastal cities to urban populations but the rural country side was not christianized or much less christianized. Many of these christian were romanised and hardly had anything to do with the indigenous culture. So its not accurate to say christianity dominated north africa (it dominated in urban coastal areas). When islam came many of these tons of north africans accepted islam while others fought against it. When the berber revolts took place, they didn't convert back to christianity they adoped khariji islam and fought off the caliphate. İslam spread to west africa via trade from north africans. The ones who expelled the christians of north africa were the north african berber dynasties Almoravids and Almohads.
@@soulonland6190 The trinity is a construct of pagan ideas. It is not steeped in the natural Jewish faith. The African fathers blended their polytheism into their new faith. They neglected the Jewish culture and scholarship of that time. Just look at the councils, there was no Jewish representation there. That is glaring....
@@soulonland6190 I'm sorry. What I should say is if anyone believes in the trinity, whether Jewish or not, they are deceived. It is worse for a Jewish person. There is no way a jew who understands Torah could or would believe in a 3 person god.
Here is the PowerPoint Dr. Bantu was referencing: www.jude3project.org/s/Bisrat-Podcast-North-Africa.pdf
Thanks.
Thaaaaank you 😀😀😀 was just about to ask
Thank you!
I've learned so much from Dr. Vince Bantu, and I was introduced to him thru Jude 3. Thank you!
Same here! He’s the truth!
This was absolutely fascinating and edifying! Thank you so much!
Thank you I happen to come into this commentary, and I thank you for applying yourself. I just want to say God bless I'm smiling I'm proud of you and thank you for applying yourself to such greatness God bless
Thankful for this series!
Excellent work👏🏿👏🏿👏🏿
Dr Bantu is a Genius!!!
This is great stuff!! I wish we had some graphics of maps to get an idea of the nations he is referring to
Here is the PowerPoint Dr. Bantu was referencing: www.jude3project.org/s/Bisrat-Podcast-North-Africa.pdf
Uber like, 90% of stuff out there is crap. Not this, very educational and revealing.
Thank you for all your work.
Wonderful and powerful presentation. I would love to see the slides.that he refers to.
Here is the PowerPoint Dr. Bantu was referencing: www.jude3project.org/s/Bisrat-Podcast-North-Africa.pdf
@@Jude3Project Thanks.
We are not Northern Africans.. We come from West/Central Africa.. Why doesn't anyone ever talk about early Christianity in West/Central Africa. They always talk about the North African's introduction to Christianity but never talk about our introduction to Christianity.. Why is that?
He'll probably get to that later.
In my experience, I have only ever heard of the introduction of Christianity to west/Central Africans via slavery as a way to “prove” that Christianity is a “white mans religion”. Not until I learned about Christianity in Northern Africa that I learned this is not necessarily the case. Christianity civilized even white pagan nations. So how is it just a white mans religion
Yes I'm from Ethiopia and the "bisrat" is the amharic word for "good news" or "gospel" as brother bantu said. Ethiopia was the first nation to accept Christianity in the world . ( Act 8 ) Christianity became the official religion in the 4th century while the Europeans were living barbaric life.
Ethiopians were not practicing Christianity until Saint Frumentius introduced the Ethiopians to Jesus. Whenever you see a Saint at the beginning of someone's name, you know you are dealing with a European Religious Institution... In fact when St. Frumentius visited Alexandria Egypt, St. Athanasius ordained Frumentius bishop and told him to initiate the cultural adaptation of Greek Christianity’s biblical-liturgical texts to Ethiopic symbols and language.
There is no Christianity in any African nation without a European missionary or colonizer telling the Africans to start their Christian Institution.
@@DJ-uc8mk Are you familiar with the Ethiopian eunuch?
@@DJ-uc8mkSomeone is ignoring the Gospel here. Christianity might had come to Ethopia, according to you, in the 4th century.... which was nothing but the European view of the Faith. However according to our Bible the Christian Faith was introduced to Ethiopians in the 1st century. Philip de evangelist baptized the 1st Ethiopian in the 1st century.
You can get Dr. Bantu’s book here: www.amazon.com/Multitude-All-Peoples-Christianitys-Missiological/dp/0830851070/ref=nodl_
Let’s get it!
Can we get the slides that Bantu refers to?
Here is the PowerPoint Dr. Bantu was referencing: www.jude3project.org/s/Bisrat-Podcast-North-Africa.pdf
Pure 🪔
The Middle East is not a continent. If North African Christianity descended from Phoenician people who are not "Negroid" then we must progress to talk about evangelism in Africa proper and how it did not end but continues to this very day! There is an apostolic line originating from the apostle Philip. Acts 8 tells of Philip and the Ethiopian eunuch who went back to the Ethiopian Queen and told her about Christ. Both were Jews and accepted Christ. Haile Selassie was a Christian monarch.
"Both were Jews? See this is the problem. The eunuch and Queen where not Jews. And let me explain why.
The book of Acts is about the spread of the gospel and the progression from Jews to non Jews and the Apostles radically having their theology changed because they were conservative. Even "poor" Peter had to have his ideology changed by a vision given to him by Jesus. Many cite Revelation 2:9 and 3:9 per some Jews not being authentic. But somehow high hurdle Peters vision from the same Jesus as it relates to non Jews, commonly called Gentiles to obtain Salvation since God is "no respecter of persons" Acts 10:34. Show it reveals many having present day biases and imposes those biases on the text. The will of God is "all be saved" 1st Timothy 2:1-5, and that is by faith in Jesus. I dare anyone to go to someone outside their race and preach God's Love through Jesus and see what happens! That is if they know Him and His Christ. Philip went to the Ethiopian. Acts 8th chapter. Why the distinction? Was it necessary? Yes it was and probably for us today to show the Grace of God to all!
Show the resources of your info.
A very good presentation. But, I will raise two arguments. First, I don't believe the people of North Africa were not yet a distinct ethnic group during the Greco-Roman period. There was still an indigenous black African presence that was a part of the population. I agree that the Phoenicians mixed with the indigenous people. But, the mixture of people was still evident. Dr. Harold Snowden's books, Blacks in Antiquity and Before Color Prejudice, has several artistic examples and some stories showing evidence that there was still a black population, although small. David Wilhite's Ancient African Christianity also supports this on pages 64-65. While I understand your stance against using colonialist terms, I think "Sub-Saharan African" was not a description used in the ancient world and should not have been used in this discussion. Secondly, Christianity in North Africa didn't immediately disappear with the arrival of the Arabs and Islam. Citing Wilhite on pages 330-334, Arabs were still trying to suppress the faith as late as the 12th century with forced conversions being instituted in 1159 AD. While Egypt and Ethiopia were blessed with very strong monastic traditions, this was largely absent in North Africa. Not only Wilhite notes this (pgs. 342,343), But, as an Orthodox Christian myself, I haven't really found any monastic works from that region (Thelassios of Libya in the Philokalia Vol. 2, but that's it).
Anyway you can edit this and add the slides? Just staring at Dr. Bantu kind of takes away from the presentation when he is referencing slides that we can't see. Love the ministry. God bless 🙏
It would be great to follow the slides.
Here is the PowerPoint Dr. Bantu was referencing: www.jude3project.org/s/Bisrat-Podcast-North-Africa.pdf
@@Jude3Project Thank you. Peace and blessings 🙏
When the Ethiopian eunuch in Acts 8 was baptized by the Apostle Phillip, the eunuch went back to the Queen of Ethiopia and told her about the Messiah. Question why he was reading the Hebrew prophets in the first place: he was a Beta Israel (house of IsraEl), or what some people call the derogatory term Falasha. The Kebra Negast (Book of Kings) tells the story of how the Queen of Sheba stayed 6 months with King Solomon and returned to her country. She discovered she was pregnant. No way a woman that beautiful and smart Solomon was not going to hit that, right? Also, that is how kings became allies with other countries. The Ethiopian Tewahdo church is said to be the result of the eunuch from Acts 8 telling the Queen about the Messiah, making Christianity the national religion. King Lalibela had churches carved out of one solid stone into the shape of a cross. St. Mary's church in Axum in which it is reported to have the Ark of the Covenant under 24 hour guard. Look up how Athanasius made Frumentius a bishop.
It says that Athanasius commissioned Frumentius to initiate the cultural adaptation of Greek Christianity's biblical -liturgical texts to Ethiopic symbols and language and this is when Ethiopia became a Christian nation
@@DJ-uc8mk The translation from Greek text to Ge'ez is the same as the manuscript translation from Greek to English. Oral evangelism and preaching proceeded the written text. What you are saying is like there were no Christians before the Gospels were written down, which is illogical.
@@imanimalaika7734 I didn't say anything. I just repeated what the information was. I didnt know how Athanasius made Frumentius a bishop. So i just looked it up and thats what it said.
Oral traditions always come before the institution.. But after St. Frumentius was told to start the adaptation of Greek Christianity's biblical-liturgical texts to Ethiopic symbols and language, Christianity became an institution in Ethiopia. After that is when you get the literature and the drawings of Jesus and the building of their Christian Churches. It seems like Athanasius and Frumentius had a bigger influence on Christianity in Ethiopia than Mark which is very interesting to me. I wonder why Ethiopia did not adopted Christianity after their interaction with Mark but waited 300 years later after dealing with Athanasius and Frumentius. It seems that after Mark dealt with the Ethiopians, the Ethiopians kept practicing Judaism and Paganism by worshiping some snake
@@DJ-uc8mk All I ask is that you think critically about what you read. Writers usually have a bias that is reflected in their work. What you found is a good example of that - it just does not make sense. Unfortunately, we cannot take everything we read at face value. Half-truths are more believable since most people will not take the time to think about what they read.
@@imanimalaika7734 I agree with you when you say one should read things with a critical mind. And i do agree that some writers might have biased.. But i think readers have biases too.. For example. A believer may tell me to read with a critical mind and we all know that writers are capable of being biased.. But does a believer apply that same critical mind when they read stories about talking animals and 900 year old men. Surely if a believer can believe the book of genesis as historical literature with zero historical evidence - One can believe that Frumentius was told to push Greek Christianity's biblical-liturgical texts to Ethiopian people. It seems like we critical when we read things that we dont agree with.. And we apply faith when we read things that really dont make any sense.
I personally feel that literature makes the claim and the claim is verified in the field. I can look in the field and see the Greek dominance and strong influence in the Christian faith.. I can see that the oldest completed old testament that we have is in Greek.. I can see that the gospels were first written in Greek. So when i read that Frumentius was told to adopt the Greek Christianity's biblical-liturgical texts for the Ethiopians, I can accept that.
But when i apply that critical mind to the book of genesis, i am told not to lean on my own reasoning and to read with faith.
Question for you: You say that it does not make sense.. What part of Frumentius being told to adapt the Greek Christianity's biblical-liturgical texts doesn't make sense? Im sure you have an angle that i am overlooking...
Peter denied Christ 3x and he conceded to Judaizers in Acts 15.
Sources?
Here is the PowerPoint Dr. Bantu was referencing: www.jude3project.org/s/Bisrat-Podcast-North-Africa.pdf
Amazighs were not christianized, christianity in north africa was strong in the coastal cities to urban populations but the rural country side was not christianized or much less christianized. Many of these christian were romanised and hardly had anything to do with the indigenous culture. So its not accurate to say christianity dominated north africa (it dominated in urban coastal areas). When islam came many of these tons of north africans accepted islam while others fought against it. When the berber revolts took place, they didn't convert back to christianity they adoped khariji islam and fought off the caliphate. İslam spread to west africa via trade from north africans. The ones who expelled the christians of north africa were the north african berber dynasties Almoravids and Almohads.
The demise of North African Christianity was the doctrine of the Trinity. It made the North Africans move from their culture and ways of worship.
How?
@@soulonland6190 The trinity is a construct of pagan ideas. It is not steeped in the natural Jewish faith. The African fathers blended their polytheism into their new faith. They neglected the Jewish culture and scholarship of that time. Just look at the councils, there was no Jewish representation there. That is glaring....
@@thomasbrisbane7122 So how do you explain the work of Alan Segal, Benjamin Sommer and Peter Schafer?
@@soulonland6190 Great scholarship great books. What is your point here?
@@soulonland6190 I'm sorry. What I should say is if anyone believes in the trinity, whether Jewish or not, they are deceived. It is worse for a Jewish person. There is no way a jew who understands Torah could or would believe in a 3 person god.
Christianity of Africa and Christianity of the white man r different