I remember NVIDIA saying something along the lines of “we had to increase the price due to inflation and supply shortages” meanwhile their profits are the highest they’ve ever been. It’s not just tech either, it’s pretty universal. We are living in a pretty shitty time.
Every company took advantage of the shortages and inflation. It really is a shitty time, wages haven't gone up for the majority of us (the minority top 10% is what is shown in the headlines). My friend was talking about houses in the UK- he said part ownership is the way. I said no its not, the problem now is every ceo wants to own us. we will own nothing, and we will be forced to be happy about it
The auto industry seems to be following a similar trend. They primarily focus on selling their high-margin vehicles, often neglecting the affordability factor for the average consumer. The challenge is that not many can afford these premium cars, much like these high-end computers.
This goes for everything across the board. PCs, cars, homes, appliances, etc. Everyone is chasing that champaign lifestyle on a beer budget. Manufacturers and retailers (successfully) convincing consumers that they need to buy more than what is necessary. The detachment from reality is pretty nuts.
Dude it's bad, I'm in the market to replace my focus ST with another performance 4/5 cylinder car and the options start at 40k when they used to be mid 20s, let alone getting another truck.
I just looked at a EU mini car. In 3 years. The model i look at. Went 57% up in price. And got serveral options removed. Which could be bought separately.
Basically everyone I know would buy Chinese electric car here in Europe because the "traditional brands" are not even trying to compete with them - they all probably think they will become new luxury brands... Yes, China is subsidizing the car industry but this is not how you solve the problem.
Yup! I was an enthusiast PC-builder for over 25 years, performance parts, watercooling, overlcoking etc... But I've sadly grown completely disintrested. I can afford the current pricing without any problems, but I absolutely refuse to pay what they are asking for enthusiast parts. over the past few years.
Same, I can afford MSRP even today, but I almost exclusively shop on the used market nowadays. Manufacturers hate the used market. I fully expect they'll introduce some DRM shit to curb it Apple-style soon.
Almost the same, I can't justify the money it would take to upgrade from 1440p and keep 120+ fps, right now. The 4090 can't even do 120 in a bunch of games, much less the 4080 or 7900. The $2000 it would be for the monitor, power supply and 4090 is just a non-starter for me. Between DLSS getting better and stock returning to normal, I'll wait and see what the 5080 is before deciding to wait for the 6000 series or not.
I also can afford high prices. And I did it a couple summers ago (2021), because I still had 980TIs, and it was finally time to move to a 30xx card, for two computers. But then Apple came out with the M-series chips for their Macs, and those do graphics, compute, AND they don't get hot or cost me a lot in electrical power. So I'm not planning to go to 40xx anytime soon. And THEN Nvidia's dodgy pricing practices chased EVGA out of the graphics industry, and so now I'm done. Going to wait a LONG time before buying another GPU. Like 10 more years long.
Did this man even look at inflation ? cumulative inflation since 2003 is 58.57%. Which means that 99 dollars and now 144 dollar motherboard didn't really increase in price.
I'm in that boat, I've always had a PC but I but a PS5 instead and kept my computer with 780 card for office things. I also bought a steam deck OLED recently.
Corporate greed and people just go with it... Because it's either "buying it or not", and we want our things so, we end up agreeing with the price tag despite knowing it isn't right / fair.
@@jacobroper6276 i thought about it. Brother used to work with circuits. Old roommate has a 3D printer. It's an idea. But i dont really ave anything to add to that type of schematic
@@jacobroper6276 Why put the onus on me and not the corporatist dogs that are jacking up the prices just to see higher profits? You're shifting the focus to me rather than to who needs to be focused on.
Spot on, Jay. We are/have been groomed to accept and deal with sub-par PC releases, overpriced GPUs and hardware. All these companies are racing against eachother to have the highest record profits and blaming price increases on "inflation". Thank you for being one of my favourite influencers ;)
It's all for short-term quick gains. But the longer-term effects are worse, but nothing can tank a company quicker than poor reputation and repeated mistakes and bad QC on products.
He did ignore the 3rd reason though. People. These corporation are not private companies. They are public. The reason they are always racing for record profits is because of the public. Who is making the rules on profits? We are. Case in point, bunch of articles and video have come out about the state of Square Enix lately and their stock price has taken a beating. It's all about "they are doomed", they are "bleeding", they might go bankrupt. They are hurting. Now think about this, all this is happening in a down year for then in which they still made a billion dollars PROFIT year to year. But because it was 60% less then the profit from the same time a year ago (but it was still 5 percent more then the year before that), they are all of a sudden in a horrible position. People wonder why these companies nickle and dime and try for every dollar of profit and ignore that they are being forced to because if they don't always make more the WallStreet Elite and everyone else will end up killing the company off. Before day trading and the availability of the internet to allow people to do it themselves, these types of things were blunted because people were not so quick to jump on the band wagons following the "Elite". A billion dollars profit in a bad year. That use to be the mark of a good company. In a bad year year they are still above the balance line. Now, because of day trading and everyone looking for the get rich now instead of long term investments, a billion dollar profit could cause a company to go bankrupt or be bought out.
If these influencers really cared about the consumer they would've stopped accepting these manufacturers contracts to help showcase their goods to the viewers. You know, like how these influencers are using the free goods that they received to show off the viewers of how great it is. Companies are created to make money. This have not changed. Live with it! This "simPATHETIC" victim mentality got to stop.
You cannot do anything about GPU prices unless you can personally make one Considering Apple and Intel never managed to make one that could compete with Nvidia top tier gpu i would say there is absolutely nothing you can do about this situation. Gaming gpus are not even Nvidia's biggest revenue generators (gpus for companies and supercomputers are), so all your whining ain't gonna do shit either Just be grateful that nvidia doesn't pull the plug on their gaming gpu lineup altogether
Built my first computer in 1996. Back then Moore's law was real and every two years it seemed like PC performance doubled, it was crazy what the difference was when you built a new PC and compared it to your old one. Now days you may see 10%-20% performance increase and that's usually in synthetic benchmarks, not something you can actually "feel" when you use it. Yet everything is like 3x what it used to cost back then even when you factor in inflation.
Capitalism demands the exponential growth of profit while the laws of physics are causing an exponential drain on per-generation performance gains. It's not sustainable.
This is prettt far off, man. Sorry. But its just wrong. It also depends on how youre upgrading. Are u upgrading from a mid range to a mid range high end to a midrange? Also, 2 years is not the normal length of time the vast majority of people would upgrade an entire rig. But if u wait a more normal 4-6 years for a full upgrade, and stay in the same price range you will easily see a doubled performance increase. Think about the difference between an rtx 2080 and a 3080 alone not even factoring in the cpu increase…even if ur figures were correct which i dont think they are, personally, i wouldnt consider a 20% increase in performance with only 2 years (when staying in the same price range) to be that bad…also, it was a very different time. The biggest change in graphics in the last 5-6 years has been ray tracing and bumps in resolution. The resolution increase from 1080p to 4k being the norm is huge. Ray tracing is awesome but certainly not to a point where a laymen could really tell much difference. My point is graphics technology is advancing slower than it used to. Were probably not going to see the kind of huge graphical advancements that we used to maybe ever again absent some paradigm changing tech being implemented which of course no one can really predict.
Actually you probably talk about early 2000s, in 90s, even late 90s PCs where so expensive that it's incomparable to today prices. Entry level PC was so expensive that you needed to spend equivalent of spending 10000$ (about 2500$ in 90s money). Literally you could buy very good used car for price of entry level PC (say Pentium with 16 Mb of RAM). All that changed when AMD and Nvidia started competing intel and 3dfx. By 2002 you could build very affordable PC, but not before that.
Main issue for me is that for the price I paid 10 years ago for a lower-mid tier PC, I’m looking at entry-level components in today’s market. Even if the performance is better, it still feels like I’m being ripped off, especially after growing up in the 90s when prices for new releases didn’t really climb very much. You used to be able to buy a similar tier of new computer for the same price you paid for your old one.
I’m genuinely curious if gaming on a reasonably priced machine back in the ‘golden age’ offered nearly the same experience as today at a higher price. From what I understand consoles were greatly favored - tons of games didn’t come to PC at all and many that did were awful ports.
@@jmass4207 It went both ways; there were a number of PC classics that either never made their way to console, or were ported poorly. Honestly, the preference for consoles probably had more to do with price-point than anything. My PS1 was $99 when I got it about a year after release. My home PC around that same time was ~$500, which then needed about $100-300 in additional RAM and a graphics card to really be capable of gaming to varying degrees. $600-800 was insane for a gaming device, but if you already had a family computer, the upgrade cost wasn't so bad. A decent, modern (at the time) gaming PC has always been achievable in the $600-800 price-range, at least until now
@@jmass4207 Back when I got my 1060 6GB for £220, it wiped the floor with the consoles... that was 3 years into the PS4 & XB3; we're now 3 years into PS5 & XB4, and at that price range you can just about match them. The equivalent PC > Console performance would be the 4070 at £570+. 10 series really was the golden age in that PC ports stopped sucking & most games came out on PC & console at the same time; equally it's just after the point when console exclusives went from 5 per year, to 10 per life-cycle (and not all good). PC probably still breaks even for life-cycle-cost (at the mid range) once you factor in now-mandatory internet-access fees & pricer games on console, but it's not the cut-and-dry cheeper & more performant option it used to be.
@@jmass4207it depends on what era, but generally gaming on PC has always been a superior experience to console if you could afford it. Very early on consoles had a multiplayer advantage, but when gaming over a modem became possible pc was always the better choice.
@@jmass4207 For some 2008 context my first fully new build cost me $400 (no monitor/keyboard/mouse) and was more than enough to enjoy PC gaming at an equal level to what I enjoyed on my Xbox 360. I didn't upgrade that computer until 2013. Yes it could run Crysis - yes it was on minimum Most ports weren't great but the majority of games were still developed PC first or PC equal. There was also a vibrant community of PC only games. LoL, WoW, CS, pretty much every world builder, games with deep game mechanics - all of these were PC only. 'PC Master Race' weren't trying to play shitty CoD ports and calling them equal to the console - they were playing their own games & asking why console players weren't interested in the much deeper, better designed, & immersive gaming experience PC offered. Kinda like how we look at mobile only gamers and say 'wait - THATS gaming to you?' Consoles were to PC gaming what mobile gaming is to consoles now - a pretty good, consistent gaming experience that introduced a huge new demographic to the bewilderment of the old guard. But thats ok - as long as you're having fun & not being taken advantage of by some corporation offering video game gambling to children, or destroying the industry for short term bonuses & golden parachutes.
What really pisses me off is within the last 6 years or so, the lack of basic features on even expensive motherboards. I remember back in 2017 building my 7700K machine, the Gigabyte motherboard I got had all of the bells and whistles, completely overkill in terms of features, even has a swappable audio chip, a debug readout, power and reset buttons directly on the board, and a crap ton of USB 3.0. I remember it being something like $160, I think. Nowadays, I'm looking at boards and they're over $300, and you're lucky if it has a debug readout, much less reset or power buttons. Basic f-cking features that should be on basic f-cking boards, but they're typically only available on $400-$600 motherboards, which somehow nowadays aren't even top-end boards, but middle of the road. Because apparently a top-end motherboard will cost you $800-$1200 Wtf is going on?! The industry is literally trying to kill itself. "Our sales are down, expenses are up, let's up our prices to compensate!" "Oh no, our sales are down, let's up our prices to compensate!" "Oh look, sales went down again, let's up our prices to compensate!" See where this is going? Eventually there'll be no one left who can afford to buy your stupid products just to play a stupid broken ass game. Time to start going outside again, because PC gaming is being sabotaged from the inside-out. And don't even get me started on games today. Don't get me wrong, I like Starfield, but the game runs like ass while at the same time looking like sh-t. I don't get it. I'm running a 3080 Ti, 5800X3D system that was the end-all-be-all just a year ago, and now it can barely run a game that looks decidedly last gen. I'm struggling to maintain 60FPS at 2560x1080 on a PC that cost thousands of dollars just a couple years ago. Something's gotta give.
the fact theres still boards without wifi just so you buy the Wifi version with plenty of features no casual pc player like me care about is all you need to know bout modern practices in the MB business
Back when I upgraded to a 8700K with a Z chipset plus RAM and a case, I paid around $800 Canadian. I just upgraded to a 13600K with a B chipset and reused my RAM and case for... $800 Canadian. 🤦🏻♂️
Starfield is made with a shit engine from 1997 and is a Bethesda game. They legit do not care about optimisation. Never understood the hype for it. Played it myself and was quite whelmed lmao
You purchased Starfield. You. Purchased. Starfield. You yourself (and people like you) are responsible for the entire situation you described in your own comment
Another problem when finding more budget friendly parts is that A lot of times, there aren't many reviews to go by. When I was looking for a decent mobo, there were only 2 or 3 reputable channels who were able to give an in depth review for these products.
I was on the same boat. I think it was only hardware Unboxed who tested the midrange motherboard and GPU/CPU I was looking into. All other videos about the parts I got where from smaller channels. The bigger channels no longer cover the entry level or mid-range as much as they should.
Everyone are trying to find better ways to invest for their retirement. Business, at least publicly traded companies, have a fiduciary responsibility to the shareholders. That being said, could they have a different responsibility besides a monetary one? Yes. However, how much are shareholders willing to shave off their earnings in terms of percentages? A company may have alternative KPIs to meet but if they are unable to keep the business afloat then those KPIs are for naught. We may want better products but at the end of the day how much are you willing to spend if "cheap stuff" start to get more expensive. We are seeing this now where the iPhones made in India are more expensive because Apple is required to sell iPhones made in India. However, their costs are higher so in order to cover Apple's profit margins the price has to go up. That's the cost of doing business in India for Apple.
More the system than the shareholders, if I'm not mistaken, companies have a legal obligation to make the highest amount of money for their shareholders, yes, shareholders are the face of the problem, but I think the root of the problem is the fact that a company needs to make them money, or they can get in trouble.
Sure. But the market didn't say no to any price increase. People paid silly cash for an upgrade when they could have no, I'm good for a few more years until the supplier responded.
I built my first PC in 1992. I only used top end components, the best performance-wise that was on the market. It cost me around $1000. It still runs today, too.
The worst part is realizing that the 2060 had a chip that was 42% of a 2080ti. The 3060 is 33% of a 3090ti and the most recent 4060 is only 17% of a 4090. Meanwhile prices were only rising.
Looking at the specs the 4060 is built like the 3050, 4060 ti built like a 3060 (now with a smaller bus width) and so on. All except the 4080 and 4090. 80 series got a $500 aka 71% price hike this gen so value is trash. Pretty much made every card besides the 4090 a terrible value right off the bat. 4070 is better now at $550 but it would be best to see it in the sub $500 price point.
It's because corrupted boomers are running the world. People in generation (millenials) need to start stepping up to the plate and and wrangling everything back in. These folks have lived a lavish lifestyle for decades that went unnoticed up until my generation hit the scene and the internet was the main source for info. Democrat and Republican boomers are allowing these folks to squeeze us dry while they kick backs and donations to their campaigns. Nancy pelosi is a prime example of that corruption with the chip market, she invested a whole bunch of money into a company a few days prior to meeting with them, she met with them and the implemented legislation that greatly benefited that company and their stock price shot up and she made several million dollars in 1 day. It's those types who are ruining it for us who just wanna get by, have fun, and have a nest egg, instead 70% of Americans have less then $1000 in their bank account. Nothing will change if we don't implement leadership in government who actually cares about us and not themselves.
fantastic video, the pricing for PC's has really gotten out of control. had a friend think he needed a $600 motherboard and he is not going to be over/underclocking anything. people are spending 3k on what would have been an $900 PC not that long ago.
fantastic? i disagree in a half hour video he completely ignored what caused the increase in hardware costs - cryptomining. hardware manufacturers saw a massive surge in demand, saw people making making money from their products and naturally wanted a piece of it. even though the mainstream cryptomining era might have ended, the hardware industry got a taste of crypto profits which explains their reluctance to lower prices also i dont agree that pc pricing is the main reason behind the decline in the quality of games. the whole unity fiasco led me to believe that it's the "effective" managers and similar types of greedy soulless vermins who i should blame but thats a whole different topic
@@busta798 This started long before crypto did. Started with the 20 series. All the crypto shit just accelerated the process. Either way, even with crypto mining cooling way down, people are still buying enough of this crap for Nvidia and AMD to continue on as they are. Also, you're ignoring half of this video and the point Nick is making, that the average consumer has _little to no comprehension of what they actually need_ which manufacturers used to trick them all into giving manufacturers an excuse to say "see? there's no market for a lower price range."
@@busta798 *"...also i dont agree that pc pricing is the main reason behind the decline in the quality of games."* A hot dog seller can _want_ to start selling poo dogs instead of hot dogs... He can _want_ to all day long... But how will he actually _sell_ any poo dogs if no one is willing to pay for them?
The GPU shortage screwed the entire computer industry, once companies saw customers gladly shelling out $3k for video cards the flood gates opened for the rest of the market but now the high proces coupled with a gaming industry that sux, they are shooting themselves in the foot.... Again
I blame those people paying scalpers. I bought my 6900XT card at MSRP but it's elevated because it's a aftermarket card from Asus, and used it for non-gaming tasks
@@Aereto the shortage had lasted for almost 3 years - depending on the place in the world, and GPUs don't last forever, so all the people having a card for already 1+ year in 2019 were looking at upgrading from a (or replacing a malfunctioning) 4+ year product at elevated prices. While the people, who are upgrading within the same generation or buying a near top/premium product (like 6900XT) - are the said whales, lol.
@@memespeech The "Replacing a malfuncioning 4+ year product" one was what my dad had to do. Smack in the middle of the shortage and crypto craze his 1060 kicked the bucket and not even the reflow method with the heatgun fixed anything. He had to get a new GPU ASAP cause that week he had to edit a video and send it out, and the cheapest card he could find in stock (that wasn't a GT 710) was a 3060 priced at €700, and this coming from one of the cheapest pc stores in the entire country! Nowadays the card he got, TUF Gaming 3060 12gb, is sitting around €450 in that store and it's main competitor (should mention 23% VAT since americans get surprised about the price disparity compared to US prices). I was gonna upgrade my 1060 to it, but then saw a 6700XT Sapphire Pulse being sold for €425 and grabbed it, cause you're not getting any GPU between the 3060Ti and 3070 performance range at that price anytime soon in this country (usually they go for €500). But I haven't forgotten how much a "top priced" xx60 Nvidia card cost back in the 10 Series here: under €400. I paid €380 for the 1060 Strix, and the only 1060 that cost more than that was the Gigabyte one
This was your most important video to date. Working at a minimum wage in a rich country it took me three years to buy my computer. Part by part. I started with a premade (decent motherboard) and built it until it had a gtx 1070, 16gb ram, SSD and 4790K. It was very expensive but the most rewarding thing I ever did. Now I look at the prices of RAM, graphics cards, motherboards, etc, and I just can't fathom buying a new computer. It would take me five years to upgrade, so what is the point?
I can build a 12600k with z690, 32gb ddr5, 2TB NVME SSD, and a 3060 12GB for $1300... and that's with one of the best non water-cooled cpu coolers and a $200 Fractal Torrent case for airflow. $10/hr is about $300 a week after taxes, so you're looking at about 5 weeks of pay including sales taxes. That's about 10% of your income. If you can't manage that in a single year, you're making major mistakes somewhere. Not to mention you're still on LGA1700 socket so free to upgrade to 13th or 14th gen when you want.
Also before you bring up the minimum wage thing... I live in Alabama. We get paid less here than pretty much the entire US, and I'd find it hard to even find a job that pays less than $10/hr unless it's fast food with literally zero experience.
@@Freek314 Bruh he never said that he was from the US, pricing is different all over, every reagion has its own income-to-cost ratio, just getting a GPU some time back cost me what was like two minimum wage salaries where I lived at the time, sheesh.
@@Box-O-Soldier He said he's from a rich country and I'm in probably the 2nd worst paid state in the US. Why do I feel like you paid less attention than me? Honest and sincere condolences on your economic woes, though. I know how rough it can be... my fiancee is Turkish and things haven't been going well there at all recently...
I'm just going to say it. I think this is probably one of your best videos ever, and I sincerely hope the manufacturers are watching. This is what all of the tech viewers are thinking. Thank you for saying it.
I'm glad Jay took the "Red Pill" and shared his thoughts publicly. If fewer people get into computers as they cannot afford to buy one, interest on that industry will further wane over time which will affect future generations of qualified professionals. These big tech/computer manufacturers will have difficulty finding ideal employees for the job and will affect their business in the long term. They should balance out what they're doing. Too much greediness will ruin everything for everyone.
@@rendcycleI don't think businessmen care that much what things will be in a future that doesn't directly affect them. If they can make things in a way they'll life a good life but everyone else that comes after they're gone will live a miserable life, they'll take the first option 100%. I remember there was a king in the bible that was like "if I'm okay, then fuck my sons" when god told him he would destroy his kingdom after he died - same thing today.
You've hit the nail right in the head! We've been groomed to accept crap / mediocre quality stuff and see it as AWESOME and EXCITING! Thank you for coming forward and being honest on this.
Thank you for this video. You expressed perfectly how the vast majority of the PC gaming community is feeling right now. I've been building computers since 1998 and lately I see a lot of veterans in the field saying "this isn't worth it anymore, I'll just get a ps5 and be done with it, I'm out".
@@PalatechGaming I guess so, still I dont see the point of complaning about PC parts, because it has never been better now end of 2023. Legit FSR/DLSS is major help, especially on say laptops. The PC I have now is slight overkill for my uses, but I know it will age better than me 970/I5 4590 for sure. I plan on having it for more than 8 years due to DLSS.
@@Djuntas Well, the complaints are due to terribly unoptimized games like starfield. Someone who bought a card like an rtx 3060ti brand new for 1000 bucks like almost one year ago now can't run the game at 1080p with decent settings. That's outright disgusting and if this trend continues I see many people quitting pc building altogether and I can't blame them.
I picked up a RX580 for $100 new and that was the last GPU I purchased before the madness ensued. Wake me up when the hardware prices are worth considering and games are worth a damn.
I bought sapphire nitro version for 200 euros. Still playing games on high or max. Naturally i turn off or lower stuff that barely do anything but eat a lot of fps. I am happy with my purchase. Thing is now I would like to buy a noticeable upgrade and new card would cost like 400 euros plus. You could build a great PC for a decent price. Now prices are so high that it feels like you are buying most high end stuff.
Bought a RX580 in Feb 2020 for 180. 2021 they were on amazon for 800. They are back down to 150. Prices have gone back down, WAY down from what they were. Just picked up a RX6700XT for 360 and it is the best!
@@iamsancho304 I remember that time too. Which is why I am very happy that I bought my GPU before the market shit itself. Honestly now I could sell my RX 580 for about 100 euros and buy RX 6600 for 220 euros. It would be 20-30fps boost. Not bad. I get a lot of money back for 6 year old card and get decent boost. Currently I am waiting for prices to change but if nothing changes then I am thinking about 6700 XT too. RX 580 still carries me far but a card with 2x power on 1080p I think is a great upgrade. I am sure it's great purchase but I am trying to have a bit more patience to see if there will be any changes.
no you didnt get it for $100 new without some act of god and no you aren't even close to reasonable. "GAS BETTER GET BACK DOWN TO $2/GAL OR ILL NEVER DRIVE AGAIN". ok bud
It used to be fairly easy to create a "console killer" with new pc parts but now it's nearly impossible. You have too buy used parts and exclude things from the final builds total in order to get it even close.
My last PC upgrade was at the start of this year, from Ryzen 5 1400 to 5500, and now, just a few weeks earlier, I decided to buy a PS5 for AAA gaming. My GPU (RX580 8GB) is still plenty for PC multiplayer games, but it won't cut it for AAA titles going forward anymore, especially not at 2K resolution. The PS5 will play the latest and greatest games at 4K60 for the next 6 years at the very least. That's 600€ for a brand-new GPU (and even more € considering the other upgrades I would have to make to take full advantage of the GPU, like the PSU and the Motherboard, we are getting up to the thousands of €), versus 550€ for a PS5 that will last longer. It was a no-brainer decision for me, a PC gamer for the last 10 years.... the last PlayStation I owned was the PS2...
@@mbazoka Smart move got power moded 3080 under water and that barely cuts it for AAA games. Fuck im running cyberpunk at like 45fps with 175hz oled monitor lol
@mbazoka what is this advertisement lmfao ps5 doesn't come close to 4k 60, it can be as bad as 720p upscaled with FSR 1.0 (like in ff16) your supposed PC can do the same. You aren't a PC gamer but a fanboy. Lol
I tried to make this point when the 3090 released. But no reviewer wanted to discuss the actual purpose of the 3090, to change the price paradigm. They wanted to focus on performance. Jay said the truth, "influencers" helped change the landscape. They need to own that.
Yeah, there was some fairly hushed discussions about the 90 series replacing the Titans as the flagship card only because it was a price point push. And the 90 series not actually being as good for the work the Titans were designed for. But now with team green designing AI specific cards that would be even better for that Titan scope of work, the 9 series is just stupid.
@@kicapanmanis1060 a salient point, but the Titan line was never marketed as a consumer GPU. It was sold as a high end commercial card. The 9 series is being sold as a consumer card, and most importantly, its BUILT as a "8 series but better" card, which the Titan line wasn't.
I remember maybe 12 years ago I splurged $400 on an 7950GT which ran everything I threw at it, and I remember thinking about how much money that was. Insane how far the prices have gone up since then
Yeah, i felt sick having been forced to spend like 800$ to get a 3060TI with a decent non-trash stock cooler when my GPU died in the middle of "the great shortage".
You can still buy a 7900XT for less then 700$ of you look around a bit. The problem arises when clueless Joe goes in a shop and buys the same card for 950$, or pays 600$ for a 4070, that should actually be a 4060TI, or 500$ for a 4060/16 that Is barely a 4050.
@@cardellbarkhorn yes, but when we talk about inflation we are talking about today and comparing it to a time in the past. So to be fair, here’s the better comparison: You needed a $600 (AFI) card to play Crysis on high settings in 2007, but today you can spend less to do that. So performance per dollar has actually improved.
As RUclips and the channels on the platform mature, this is the kind of content we need. Big picture, not the latest flash in the pan. Thanks for the video Jay.
It's targeted mainly at the Linux crowd (both gaming and productivity stuff) rather than general gamers, but I've seen Phoronix also doing graphs of benchmarks/MSRP, benchmarks/power consumption, etc. as part of their reviews and category rundowns for components, rather than just comparing straight benchmarks, and I find it very helpful. Seems like a very important factor that's being ignored in a lot of discussion. It's easy to find companies offering good performance, it's hard to find companies offering good value.
Building a computer in 90s, 00s, 10s and now in 20s is complete different worlds. I'd say up to 2010 it was a 'geek' thing, now because of the social media and influencing it is a 'trend' thing and it is shocking that nowadays even people who build these computers, dont care(and in most cases dont know) about specs or technological terminology. All they do is a 'custom build' from a free builder template online, throws in max rgb lights. And charges a work price for it.
Building a PC literally changed my life drastically. I was bouncing from job to job not knowing really what I wanted to do. Then I built a PC after losing my job in the dark times and fell in love with computers. Started school for computer science and now got a career I'm all about. Also shout out to you and other tech channels for having a huge impact on me finally pulling the trigger on building a PC. Thanks
It's such a grossly saturated field. I would advise youngin's to look elsewhere. All of those "learn to code" campaigns are going to bite a lot of people in the ass with the continual improvement of AI and capitalism being the economic system.
@@synergygaming65 seeing as a lot of businesses are starving for talent, I wouldn't say the market is saturated. Some companies and some niches are saturated, but others will be short staffed for years to come, even with aggressive hiring and training campaigns. Sure, I wouldn't advise someone to just go through one of those random online coding courses, thinking they'll make it big. But if someone has the passion and wants to put in the work to get the skills, get after it. It's been a while since I've been able to both enjoy and take pride in my job, but here I am feeling incredibly lucky to have found my love for computers
Price gouging as a result of corporate greed is a recurring phenomenon across all industries post pandemic unfortunately. Corporations got a taste during supply chain shortages and decided they can just charge the consumer whatever they want. The consumer has no choice but to pay up or go without because other corporations follow suit through “price leadership” to keep markets artificially inflated.
@@tobymarx-dunn2332 They are artificially high. Luxury goods have artificial pricing, even if people are "willing to pay", it doesn't make the price a fair price. However, computers are not luxury goods per se, but instead a gateway to other goods. (There is a distinciton between luxury goods such as perfume, which is perfunctioary, and those such as a computer is utility) If all web browsers suddenly started charging £300 a year, to use them, you'd fork it up. Not because its fair value. However, you're willing to pay as it is a gateway to a variety of other services. If every new triple A title, wasn't unoptimized garbage, and was able to be ran on old specs, very few people would feel the need to upgrade. Why get a 12 core cpu, if all of your requirements are already exceeded by your existing setup. In modern society, a computer is a neccessity, like a mobile phone or internet access is. If you are into gaming, then a certain level of spec is a neccessity, due to the requirements of the games that are made. Apart from a very niche set of hobbiests that just max out their build for Performance scores, no one would even buy any of these new GPU or CPU, if existing and future software did not neccessitate it.
@@tobymarx-dunn2332most people don't have a choice on whether or not they buy their family groceries (which have gone up in price almost 40% in my area).
@@tobymarx-dunn2332wtf are you talking about? Only the 1% are able to pay the higher prices, everybody else is struggling. There isn't even a middle class anymore because of greed, there are only the haves and the have nots.
I used to be able to build a solid budget workhorse for around $500-600. These days - $800-1k minimum if you are replacing everything. I've been using an AMD RX 570 for like 3 or 4 years now, because there just aren't any new cards in the price range I can really afford to justify upgrading while this thing is still running fine, which is back down around the sub-$150 range. Steam Deck is starting to look like a real solid option if/when this system gives out if things don't change.
I also was using a 570 on an even older am3 system at 1080p until just recently. An upgrade had not crossed my mind until a friend handed down his am4 with along a 5700xt, which prompted me to spend on a 1440p screen instead. The gains were noticeable, but I can honestly say that the 570/am3 combo would have carried me another few years even at 1440. If it wasn't for my friends spend happy nature, I would have skipped am4 entirely. For me, the value of that 570 can not be overstated.
That being said, Ive had a steam deck about a year now and can say the base model with a cheap SSD upgrade has great value as well. Gave that 570 a run for its money and scratched my itch for new hardware. Ill be completely happy not buying anything else for a while and I think its a great choice for someone that doesn't have unrealistic expectations of what a handheld can do.
Its brutal now, upgraded from 570 to 6700xt for 340£ half a year ago. I bought the 570 used one year after launch for 90 :/ Many people i know purchased consoles in the past few years.
That's what is so wild. A lot of people learned how to run stuff on a Steamdeck. Once you learn to downsize, your computer lasts a lot longer. A Steamdeck costs less than a mid-range video card.
@@AnabolicSaagAloo Agreed there are many MANY flaws with the Steam Deck and even the ROG's Ally handheld they both have a lot of features that were clearly cut down on to keep it affordable despite people would clearly pay up for better quality. Its like how ass backwards Apple is with their hardware. If Apple actually made like quote indestructible perfect phones there would always still be ways to make them better. But they don't cause like any arse backwards company they choose to make what makes profits over what makes long term happiness on both sides of the checkout line. Its like the meme of nokia phones vs Apple phones durability. Apple could make amazing hardware instead they opt for looks 9/10 times and then pay in spades when they get torn to shreds in small claim courts. Over mind boggling terrible designs.
Please enjoy your sub-1080p trash graphics with trash framerates while I indulge myself in the pleasures of playing games in 4K with the best settings at a minimum of 60 fps.
@@SphereofChaos I actually do notice quite a big difference between 1080p and 4K on my TV. And even on something like the Steam Deck the sub-1080p resolution is pretty damn noticable. Don't assume everyone has trash eyes simply because you have trash eyes.
Thanks for putting out that video. I currently don't upgrade my pc because of two reasons: 1. That insane prices 2. The low quality of AAA-Games that need such performance.
Same here. I have no interest in garbage AAA titles. Older titles look amazing on midrange cards, so what's the point in buying these 4090s... Looking at shiny pretty garbage? No thanks.
internet reviewers like him are part of the reason prices got stupid. they tell everyone nonstop that even last gen PC parts are inferior and you need to update to the latest, greatest (and more expensive) option. PC bulding used to be about making a machine better than the sum of it's parts. now, it's just buying all the latest hardware than has differences so minute you can't see them with the human eye.
@@theghostofthomasjenkins9643 Yeah I agree. There are also those fucks that literally have 4090's sitting around that they don't use because "iT dOeSnt MaTch mY CoLOr sCheMe" This is why budget building is more of a skill than a hobby because you need to squeeze the most performance out of a set budget
@theghostofthomasjenkins9643 jay: "you don't need the latest tech" Also Jay *has 4090, ddr5, 7950x in personal rig* I would get it if he had them for testing foe the channel but no he uses it for personal use. Rules for thee but not for me.
Agreed. Higher prices just means I'll upgrade less frequently to balance out the increased costs of parts. Which is quite easy to do these days, looking at how terrible gaming has been in recent years.
i was thinking of upgrading my ryzen 7 3700x recently but looking at the motherboard and processor costs, as well as new memory, i thought fuck that im happy with what i got
Gaming wasn't terrible in the recent years, AAA market just has less hits on average. They're also not bad but often not taking any risks so you mostly get solid titles with few to no innovation at all. Indie and AA had some real bangers though.
Dude thank you for making this. Been feeling pretty bad about buying mobos and gpus specifically for a long time now. I have a good job, no kids, and can luckily afford my bills, and I still struggle to find the budget for PC upgrades.
I picked up a 5900x CPU for $200 used November 2022. July 2023, I picked up a 6800xt for $230. Used is the way to go. Bought an x570 motherboard for $50, but it was a gamble as it was described as having issues. It did not. So you can game on the cheap with a nice system, but I hunt obsessively for cheap used components. I make upgrades if I can sell my old part for equal to or just shy of the upgraded item. Like I sold my 6700 xt on ebay for about $250, but ebay took it's cut so it wasn't quite a free upgrade to the 6800 xt. 6600 xt to 6700 xt was a similar experience as well. So I upgraded 3 times across one generation for cheap each time. Probably less than $300 out of pocket across all 3 and multiple years of enjoyable gaming. @@uthopia27
@@uthopia27 You're demonstrating the problem exactly. >Guy with No kids >Has Job >Comfortable income >Has to go last gen second hand. What exactly is the expected customer for being able to buy things new then? The fact you are even giving that advice is EXACTLY the problem. I'm sure there will be others who see this and say "Haha stop being poor then" It isn't even about that, it's about effective value. How is PC gaming worth anyone's time when that's what it asks? A large amount of the value comes from the value given by others who participate in the space, as price becomes astronomical like this the amount of people in PC gaming shrinks, which in turn makes PC gaming less fun, which in turn means it is an even bigger ask to ask such a door price to get your foot into a door that is increasingly less interesting. It's like a club asking for a $100 enterance fee. Great when the club is great, but the club is increasingly boring, neglected and empty, so that $100 is in exchange for less and less value, so we eventually hit the point where the quesiton is "Why would I even want in?" PC gaming is heading there.
The major issue lies with how everything has increased due to shortages, but now that everything is back in full production, prices stayed the same/went higher. The craziest part is that these companies are recording record profits at that time and now they are draining because people can't afford it anymore.
Record profits after massive inflation? Shocking. I'm sure that those profits must have just as much purchasing power as before, right? They must be using some _special_ currency separate from the rest of us, right? Because otherwise, those record profits mean shit. But sure, let's keep pretending that economy-wide inflation isn't caused by bad fiscal policy and that it's just because people are getting greedier suddenly.
Thanks for posting this Jay. I'd love to see a whole series on building low to mid-tier systems along with installing and tweaking current games to run on that tier of hardware. I think it would encourage more people to dive into the PC gaming world.
This is why I haven't bought a graphics card since 2017 (GTX1080), I cannot justify spending $1500+ Canadian on a 80 series SKU or even $1200 on a 70TI. These prices are just ridiculous and something needs to change. Great video Jay!
@@mycosys I'm pretty sure 6800 XT isn't $500 Canadian. Where I live (Finland) the cheapest 6800 XT is 580€ which is almost $840 Canadian, though I assume the prices are much lower in Canada but it still must be way more than $500 Canadian
@@Pasi123 my dude. 1) im Australian, and im stuffed if im double converting 2) im Australian and well aware Canadians are even more used to converting than we are, and know that theyre just as used to specifying currency if it isnt US as we are. But yeah 750-800 canuckybucks according to newegg canada
Decided to get into PC gaming after losing my mother and it gave me the distraction I needed to stay sane. Now I see it as one of the best decision I've ever made, I just wish i had gotten into it sooner.
What's making this even worse now IMO is that a lot of newer games are really badly optimized on PC, and not exactly running well on consoles either. There is little good reason as to why games such as Immortals of Aveum, Remnant 2, Starfield, and more are running as bad as they are on PC. They're also using upscalers as a crutch when they were originally meant for helping with performance under raytracing and performance of older systems.
The funny thing is $699 was seen as quite expensive if you read 1080 Ti reviews from 2017. But nvidia was king, not too different from today, so overall the price was given a pass. 4 generations later, a card performing similar to 1080 Ti should have a street price $210 - 250. But most cards in that class (RX 6650, 6700, 7600 / RTX 3060, 4060 ) generally cost well over $300 at retail.
@mattc9598 tons of them on eBay for around 150 bucks... and honestly, in this market, they are still a great buy at that price.... has more vram than my 3080.
Your point is valid. For the past 25 years or so I have done major upgrades to my PC every 2 years or so. And bought several new systems. Now I use a PC which should have been replaced 5 years ago. But I will stick with it despite its flaws, because of the insane prices.
@@scrooge1374 my e- and @ -keys are non-functional. I have to google them and copy-paste the keys when needed, unless I use a standalone keyboard. Also, my a -key gets stuck quite often.
My first desktop was built with brand new parts and have gradually upgraded it with mostly 2nd hand parts over the years. The only parts I buy new is storage. I do not know what has been stored on 2nd hand storage. I do not know how much wear or tear there is on 2nd hand storage even when checking SMART. I want them to last for years if possible, so I buy them new.
I built my first gaming PC in Oct 2008 (Q9550 + GTX 260) and then five years later in Feb 2014 I built my current system (4770K + GTX 770 --> 980 Ti --> 2080 Ti). After ten years, I am going to build a new PC, and it will be the last gaming PC I ever build... unless some kind of AAA PC Gaming Renaissance occurs. This is the first time that I am not excited about building a new system. I despise everything about Windows 10+. HW prices are through the roof. AAA games have become poorly-conceived, bug-ridden "live service" propaganda. I plan to use the Windows 10 system only for DX12 games, and my Windows 7 system to continue replaying the hundreds of great games from the last forty years. That is, excepting the games that are only available via Steam. I am shocked at the decision made by Valve to not allow games to be played on the OS they were designed and sold for --- but more to the point, the latest OS that actually _runs_ many of these games properly, or at all. I am hoping that some kind of solution will become available.
Always keep up with the new Jayz2Cents vids and lemme say. You are so correct about being in a dark place and finding building and tinkering with PCs to be a passion is so spot on I actually shed a tear or two. We love ya Jay and team! Thank you.
Of course there's secret price agreements. Can't do that if there's too much competition, but there's really just a few major companies ruling the business. Making a price agreement so you can all benefit and get more profit is only a natural consequence of the situation.
Do some videos on affordable PC builds. Please. I remember pc format magazine used to publish a shopping list for entry level, mid range and high end. It was super useful to anyone looking to build a PC. Why not do that once a month. I bet folks would like it. Let folks see what each one can do. Cool content that maps out where we are. Maybe quarterly instead of monthly, but you get the idea. Great video, someone had to do it. Well done Jay!
There needs to be more videos on modern budget PC building. Because oftentimes today the cheapest way is to buy an office workstation and then upgrade the PSU and slap a GPU in it. The days of a la carte budget PCs are sadly over but it's still most of what you find in budget quides.
That is a great suggestion. I'd also be interested in seeing Jay build some budget/midrange PCs to show more people what is possible and affordable. Show that a budget build doesn't have to be a potato.
Very good video! My personal 2 cents would be, a lot of the willing people have blown through their budget for the next few years buying the priced up parts, so it just isn't possible to upgrade now and have better performance. They will just end up waiting
Last computer I built was an 8700k and 1070ti. Just started looking again to build my daughter a rig and wow. Guess I’ll partition mine and let her run it because the prices are insane
Best to stick to AM4 for the deals, much cheaper mobos, you can recycle your DDR4 from your previous build. A 5600 is so cheap for what you get. For the graphics card.. good luck..
This is a wise choice. Especially if it's going to be her first REAL gaming PC. Me personally, I might just have to give up on gaming as a hobby and find something cheaper and more affordable to pass my time with.
@@kingepostleYou might want to take up a craft hobby such as blacksmithing, cabinet-making, or carpentry. That way, if the "shit hits the fan", then you'll have a skill that any survival settlement would find useful. Someone who's skilled at a craft would find a LOT MORE welcome in any settlement than someone who's not skilled in any craft.
I've notice the same in all industries. It seems that companies have universally decided that they only want to service the high end of the market, where there are higher margins. Look at the automobile market for example...
I remember getting my founders 1080ti for 599 on release. The 2080ti being 1299 was a kick to the gut. I feel that for Nvidia that the crypto boom over inflated their profits and Following the Fieldman Doctrine they have to keep their profits growing per quarter/year. So instead of taking the hit of correction they inflated their prices to maintain this gain. Then AMD just followed suit and price fixed the stack.
1080ti to 2080ti was quite useless upgrade for the price. When 2080ti was released 1080ti was still very good gpu. So whole 20-series should have been skipped. I mean 1080ti is rtx3060 level of performance.
The last GPU I bought was an RX 580 almost 6 years ago. I've been priced out of the GPU market, currently running a 2070 a friend gave me haha. This is a great video Jay!
I am on a Ryzen 5 5500 6 core, 32gb ddr4 ram and a now potato GTX1070. I've just accepted I am now a Retro gamer....E-Sports gamer and Indie game. When even the RTX4000 series are having issues in the latest games, PC is dying for me. I don't want pricing to return to the bad old days of the late 90's.
ive bought new GTX 750 Ti (2015) GTX 1050 Ti (2016) GTX 1080 (2017) RTX 2080 Super (2020) Ive been priced out i only nabed the super bcause of the stimulas check i knew was coming.
Hello JayZ, this was another home run for you. Well thought out and planned commentary that was brilliantly and sincerely presented. I hope the entire computer industry takes heed of your message. Its time for some marketing corrections that will bring back the joy of computing to more people.
The industry needed this open letter. I breathed a sigh of relief when I could over pay for a 3080 during the crypto boom. We jumped from cypto to AI and even though all my friends game on PC, no one but me has upgraded their system since 2020.
@@jirya957 I only upgraded from my 1050 because it died but I tried to keep within a budget and at the time a 1660 was the best for the money I had. It's running everything I play and do very well. No interest in 30 or 40 series or their equivalents.
This pricing nonsense has kept my 960 inside my system. I’ve got a 5800x, a Samsung 980 pro and Adata S40g, I wanna go 1440p for my next monitor, but GOD, are graphics cards not great right now
I remember, back before 2010 having to rebuild my brother's and my PC's after a lightning strike damaged both. New boards, chips, and ram for both cost us a grand total of $600. We literally built two, virtually new, PC's for $300 each. Both were mid level gaming pcs, which would cost @ 1500 now (each)
Yah the 1600AF(formerly ~$79), a b450 board (formerly ~$69-99), 16gb ddr4-3000mhz (~$49-69), rx570 (~$129-199) the basics of that was outside of case and power and storage, $300 mid level gaming pc was great and they still work even now
@@allxtend4005 sir I have an r9 290x (8gb) the 570 can play new games there is such a thing as low 1080p, and it gets decent frames (50-80fps), now you know probably can't play starfield ain't even going to try
@@allxtend4005 Only reason my 580 struggled was that it had minor damage. It still works, but, it isn't in good shape. My current build cost close to 1500, and has a ryzen 5 5600x, RX 6650.
I've had a near 30yr career in IT because of my passion for gaming, I had to learn so much about PCs just to get games to work back in the days where that first 640K of memory was so important lol...
@@Noodles.FreeUkraine you know it! Eventually I had a config that loaded everything I needed in the perfect order as to not waste any large blocks with a small TSR. It ended my need to mess with it, & I could run every game I had. Good times 😂
Should have started with 6800 cpus not early intel. They did not have that barrier, 486 66 were barely use able really the P1 is where PCs started to become ok for games.
If someone was to have told you 2 years ago PCs would increase in price by 200% over the next 2 years, would you have believed them bearing in mind the Produccion cost has only increased buy 24% overall.? 2 years ago, my entry level builds in my portfolio were $560. £625 now its $760 £825 The mid-range is still my top seller. at $1000 £1125. but it's just too hard now to get new consumers into the market. 82% of my sales are returning customers wanting to upgrade mostly from entry level to mid-range. it's as if the industry is trying to push out new consumer entry level altogether. at the same time has destroying the small business owner.
The *only* reason I got an EVGA 3080 Ti is because I saved for *years*.. And it STILL felt like crap to pay $980 for it. I adore the card but.. That cost eclipsed my entire last build and that just can't feel good. Love the video Jay. I agree 2,000% on everything.
I never had a 80 series card until the 3080 and then they immediately (not literally but feels like it) made a 12Gb version to replace my 10Gb one. I'm not sure I can spend over $800 on a flagship GPU again. I'll probably stick to used again.
@@jonmayer my best card prior was a 1660Ti. Watching the world progress made me realize 12GB isn't gonna be enough in a few years. Wish I sprung the extra $100 and got a 3090 *just* for the 24GB.. Funny how the world, especially tech, always makes ya wish you had more huh..
Same here. Held off on buying a GPU for 5 years. Last december I caved and spent 800e (tax included) on a Red Devil 6900XT. Great card, but the price made for a very unsatisfying purchase. Guess I'm buying GPUs every 5 to 7 years now.
Just to correct one thing: Nvidia has done "Founder's Editions" for a long time. They used to be the "bottom shelf" options from every manufacturer, the blower style, one fan things with stickers on top. Like I have old GeForce 9800GTX+ "Founder's Edition" somewhere still (I would remember Leadtek was the "manufacturer") and the thing was that the "manufacturer part" was a sticker on top, you pealed that off and vóla, you had old Nvidia GeForce logo (the double wings) under it. The old "Nvidia blower" was the founder's edition 100% made by Nvidia and just sold to AIB's to add stickers. I would remember GTX 680 still had the "Nvidia blower" and with 780 came the "Founder's Edition" silver shroud Nvidia blower with 980 Nvidia starting to sell the Founder's Edition straight. I think the worse side is the low end getting basicly to be "waste of sand" quality. Like the RTX 3050 which is pretty much a card that can perform only with the DLSS upscaling on, without it, it's just garbage. RTX 4060 is in the same ballpark, like I know my RTX 3060 12GB isn't the best card around and it lacks in computing side and kind of badly, but at least it can make do with the extra VRAM and not-the-best- but-okay memory bandwidth. It was even odd how fast games went from "8GB of VRAM is fine" to the moment that RTX 3060 is trading blows with RTX 3080 just because more VRAM (not really that much, but in few special cases which is already a BIG thing). And then you get the DLSS3.0 and soon RTX 4060 that basicly performs well only because DLSS3.0. That is also a bit of a reason I call DLSS3.0 "Nvidia BS" just as much as I called RTX Voice "Nvidia BS" and even before that PhysX "Nvidia BS". With "Nvidia BS" I mean tech that Nvidia is gatekeeping and saying that nothing else can use it because some half-magic proprietary tech that must be used and then later when it turns out it's not that important tech for Nvidia anymore, "surprise", almost everything and the 3 years old moldy potato can run it. I would bet my hat on that if the community pushed hard enough, if game devs (mostly Epic with Unreal 5) found ways around, if hackers made it work and/or AMD and Intel both came with their own versions that worked better, Nvidia would release DLSS3.0 for all RTX cards. And that is just based on the "Nvidia BS" feel I get from it, I don't buy the half-magic "optical flow accelerator is needed" reason, I believe the only reason is the good old money because that is pretty much the only thing that makes RTX4000 cards somewhat special, otherwise they are just RTX3000 cards with more VRAM and perform pretty much in the same ballpark.
Blowers didn't go out because of greed. They went out because of people testing noise(which blower style fans always lose at because of how they work). Seriously, the average "PC enthusiast" doesn't know jack shit about fans. All the fans in your computer are trash(not even kidding. Your fans are trash, but quiet trash). But "noise", because nobody wants to live next to a 10 40x38 30k RPM fan monster, much less 40x80 metal bladed counter rotating finger chopper which draw 2 amps per fan. Nobody wants to use hearing protection just to turn on their rig.
I recently got back into PC gaming. I remember wanting to build a rig during the pandemic. I almost fainted at the parts prices. Especially the GPUs. Insane.
I sat on my 1070 until a few months ago. Then I spotted a 7900XT for just a bit lower than reference MSRP and I took that as a sign. I can only say I'm super happy on AMD!
Hey, Jay! Got a new rig during this week, 5800X3D, 6900XT, 32GB RAM. I've decided to go with the previous gen due to pricing and value of newer versions, since RT is not important for me, and I've a bunch of "old" games in my Steam. My main gripe is the total price of my rig, +30% cost, but the main reason for this is sanctions and price of circumventing them. Cheers from Russia! Your vids have helped me a lot!
I feel like a good example with brands only promoting their highest end products, at least in my case, would be the 13900k vs everything else they offer. As a video editor, I've been looking online for recommendations on a good bang for the buck CPU when it comes to editing, and it feels like I'm always recommended the 13900k and I'm like "I said good bang for the buck, not cream of the crop" And then doing my own research I narrow it down to the 13700k cause to me it's like 2nd only to the 13900k, draws less power, and doesn't get as hot meaning I don't have to also invest at least another $100 to cool the 13900k all while being $200 less. But because it also feels like the consumer mentality is "go bit or go home" it never feels like I find enough research on what type of cooler I exactly need for a 13700k, it's always "this cooler doesn't work with the 13900k, but is fine for the 13600k" and I'm just like *man*. It's probably just a niche example in my case, and there's more to this that's influencing my buying decision like still using an LGA 1700 motherboard, but this is what immediately came to mind when you said "The consumer is not innocent either. There are good deals out there, you just have to look for them."
No, I don't think it is a niche example. There are a lot of people that only need a PC for "ordinary stuff" like taxes, browsing the web, etc. And maybe occasionally playing a game. Or occasionally video and photo editing. In the past there would be a mid range option for this stuff. Today people would probably right away buy a notebook. considered buying Apple * PS Maybe the ordinary, not-max-power user will be satisfied with on board gfx anyways.
Hey Jay, I believe this should be put out not just by you. If you really want the companies to change then all the tech youtubers need to release such videos simultaneously so it's loud and clear.
God I can't tell you how much I needed to hear that!!! I thought I was the only one who felt this way and I needed this video more than you can ever imagine. Thanks Jay!!!
Built my computer about 7 years ago. Works perfectly fine for everything that's been coming out at 1080p, so I will continue to wait for prices to come down before upgrading. Like you said, prices are inflated when they don't need to be; It's extremely off-putting.
Same. Still rockin' an OG 1700 w/ an RX 570 8GB myself. What big money did to mainstream movies and mainstream music, turning it into samey franchise fare taking few chances, they've finally also achieved with gaming. So i'll stick w/ what I have until something comes along that makes me go, "I HAVE to upgrade/build so I can play that!"
Companies have lost their minds. It used to be value for a great product now it's mostly profit as much as possible. Maybe not for gpus but in general Sure 10-20% increase in materials but that doesn't mean 50-100% price increase
That's what happens when you don't enforce taxes rich companies. They get greedier than they already are and try to make ALL THE MONEY rather than some of the money
@@VITAS874 yes democrats are trying to make supply chains easier. (Hence passing acts like the chips act) but republicans constantly try to block said supply chain policies (again the chips act as an example)
I feel you! Even if I’m able to afford super expensive PC parts, I’m getting tired of feeling that companies are profiting from us. Plus the fact that the PC version of games is often worst nowadays than the console version… i’m using more and more my 500$ PS5 than my 5k PC…
I mean, companies do need to profit, without it, they go bankrupt quite fast, but, the level of profit nvidia is showing is bonkers, they can profit less and still be the industry leader in both datacenter and gaming chips, but, they also can increase price and profit more because people will still buy, so, why not?
I swear, I'm tired of playing a game one day just fine, coming home from work the next day and finding that an update has bricked my game or sometimes even the whole damn PC, then spending the whole freaking evening fixing it. It always seems to take the exact amount of time I had free to play the game.
@podcasting68 and that is amazing! People in this comments are obsessed with 4k and Ultra settings. Steam surveys show over and over that the vast majority still plays at 1080p. Why would that be? Must be a real mistery :D
If they keep increasing prices, ill just stop buying new stuff, in fact i might even just stop buying stuff. I recently upgraded, I'm good for another 15 years. I would have upgraded much sooner, like after 2 years... but nope. With the current prices, no way.
You made such a great point. I have been priced out. In Australia you can almost double the prices you are talking about. The 40 series here is upwards of $3000. I used to upgrade with each new generation but I have stuck with a 6 year old system and will probably do future gaming on consoles.
And the TAX make it higer, same here in norway just got Xbox x PS5 switch, and waiting for quest 3. And way under a good PC. Cant see why i need a Good gaming PC now...
No I do not wait in line for the chance to buy something. I wait. I Agree the industry is screwing around, lootboxes, bad launches, and extra content for games is now skins not levels. But to fight this we have to use, or not use, our wallets. I want a better card than the 3070 but not for hundreds of extra bucks to get 20 frames, IF, IF im lucky.
Jay, it would be nice to see when the motherboard manufacturers want to send you their top tier boards take them and do a head to head comparison with their lowest tier board and show the little benefit you get by spending 200% more.
this will just make them charge more for the lower end board if that's what's getting recommendations. there is no solution to this except lower-priced better competition.
Thank you Jay! Truth! As a kid (currently 40 grew up/live in bay area) I messed around with pcs/gaming loved it, yet these 2 industries are in such a sad state imo from when I was a kid to now....and I vote with my wallet, so my money goes to other/new hobbies that respect my time/money.
As a first-time PC builder, a lot of what you covered played into my budget for overhauling from nearly 10-year old kit. With it capped at $1500, I figured the most expensive thing I'd have to buy was the GPU, so my motherboard was under $200 (Yes it's an ASRock, which in hindsight wasn't likely the best option, but it honestly hasn't been terrible either.) My Ryzen 7 7700 X was about $350 and I got lucky to find an unused 3060ti on Amazon for just over $450. I can't tell you how many PC mongers gave me grief over not shelling out the money I didn't have for a 4000-series card when they saw my build, and I don't care. I can play pretty much anything on this setup with no lag or serious issues aside from one potentially faulty DDR5 RAM stick, but that's a MUCH cheaper fix than I could be looking at. For a lot of us with tight budgets, the industry is so willfully ignorant because of its need for profit that it's bleeding itself dry.
honestly, given the AM5 cpu voltage issues (worst on asus boards) and how they handled that, I trust ASrock more than Asus. I have several of their boards and they work well.
You did the right thing, I'm always one or two gens behind with GPUs, unless you are an FPS queen it just doesn't matter when playing games to have the newest hotness. You can still run nearly all games at max setting without any issues with playability.
@@hvymetal86 It's crazy how Asus has fallen! I've been building gaming rigs since the early '90s and Asus was always the best, even in 2011 when I built my last one (the one I typing on right now!) I still have zero problems after over a decade of gaming on this Sabertooth MB and a room heater AMD FX-9590 (started with a FX-8150) Black processor (upgraded GPUs and SSDs over the years of course). I'm hearing too many stories about how Asus it poop now, definitely looking elsewhere for my next build when the 50 series GPUs come out and I can get a 40 series for cheap. I'm just now getting to the point where I can't run games with max settings.
@@anydaynow01 I'm playing Cyberpunk right now and have no need to overclock anything with my setup as it is. Considering my prior GPU was a 660, the 3060 seems more than capable of shouldering the load for what I do both with gaming and content creation.
@@hvymetal86 I know Jay has leaned more toward MSI boards in his videos than ASRock, so when I realized that I might have gone the wrong way with that purchase, I was a bit concerned. But aside from some random BSODs, it's been pretty stable as I've updated the BIOS along with the drivers. Like I said, I may have a faulty RAM stick, but those are easily replaceable and far cheaper. Just have to get some that aren't Corsairs apparently. 😁
As usual, a pinpoint video. I recently got into retrogaming as I'm completely burnt out of the hobby of building PCs and gaming, and playing older gems like Yoshi's Island really shines a light on how screwed we are as enjoyers of video games. The passion and the ingenuity that moved the industry decades ago has been completely STOMPED. And last week I found myself looking at 360 prices and it really saddened me, not because of a dumb console war, but because I realized that the thing that inspired my hobbies and my carreer is now completely rotten, and could be considered dead. And it's not even the prices alone. You could spend 2000 dollars on a PC, but the games that release will run like dogshit, and there is no accountability on the devoloper's end, and consoomers will just follow the trend and buy the new shit that has been gargled up.
I'm just thankful indie games are still keeping the ingenuity that drew me to the hobby alive. Playing through non-mainstream singleplayer games of years past has brought me the most joy I've had gaming in a year that otherwise would have been pretty shitty because of my reduced freetime and continued downturn in the rest of the industry.
Day 1 games always run like shit, If you're still buying and attempting to playing games on the day they release. You get what you deserve at this point.
RTX 4090 right now has the "low" price point of 2500 bucks in my country. Not to mention, there used to be a lot of cards, now suddenly they barely sell only 1 model. Same for the nearby countries. 4090 is very hard to find again. Price is also increasing on these few cards too. Now think how much a 4080 cost. Cus it ain't 1000 or even 1300.
Thanks for making this video Jay, I was SUPER into building PCs pre Covid but now I just feel like the value is gone. There is NO way you can build a console killer tower at a console price anymore and that used to be the case every other generation. and it's sad. I'm hoping the availability of Graphics cards and the lack of RT adoption makes Nvidia in particular double take and realise they are letting gamers down. You are right....they make great products, at bad prices. knock 20% off the whole Graphics card stack and 50% off the MOBO fiasco everything is all great again
You never could, unless you had many used parts. At 500& you don’t have a system that can play games at 1440p 60 fps. That’s just impossible. Let alone 4K @ 60 fps. Consoles can’t do that of course.
Exact same thing happened to me it’s hard to justify buying parts at these prices. I just ended up getting a console and haven’t paid any attention to new releases
The consoles had a new generation end of 2020, so the PS5 has roughly Zen2 8c, RX 6700, 16GB RAM plus ASICs for decompression and other gfx functions; all mass produced and designed to sell games from their own stores. People swallowed Nvidia's RTX prices and ignored the same obvious miserly amount of VRAM, guess what Nvidia see that as an opportunity to sell upgrades.
@@WhiteG60 well that was heavily down to the long crypto bubble, I did a build for someone this year and the only bad buy was the GPU. I remember crappy mobos of the decades past and the quality and large connectivity provided by a decent B550 mobo was well worth the price. I fully expect B650 to become better value too, my own PC build has X570 on offer as B550 of the time was higher priced. People have short memories and ignore many factors, including higher quality. Unfortunately the GPU market in my region isn't offering the reductions the US sees. The launch day 7800xt offerings was the first time I saw anything tempting.
Hey Jayz! I have to say that this is one of the best videos that you have ever done. I know what an uphill battle it is to try to convince the modern community not just accept what they are shown about anything in this world today, but to do a little work with what is available to drive these companies, to at least accept the consumers demands. Do a video occasionally to let us know options. They really are hard to find. I have been building my families computers since the pentium came on the market. OG here. Good luck to you sir.
One word: Consumers. Imagine what manufacturers/devs would say if no one bought their products for 1-2 years. It will greatly make them reconsider their decisions.
People will call socialism/communism idealistic and then expect shit like this to happen to fix capitalism. 😂😂😂 It's almost like having 0 separation between ridiculously powerful entities who's sole purpose is to generate money with no expense (like people's livelihood) being too great, and the people deciding what you pay and get paid for is a f*cking awful idea 😱🤯. Like literally what incentive do they have to do anything right? What would happen if both AMD and Nvidia decided to charge double for all their gpus and refused to lower them? We'd run out of 2nd hand stuff very quickly and yes seeing AMD provides the soc in the consoles and Microsoft and Sony are customers of them they'd go up too. What'd we do then? It is absolutely infantile to expect any other outcome.
it is the issue. the pride of building a PC even 15 years ago wasn't "having all the latest bells and whistles." it was "squeezing the most out of very little." that's why the price went up. consumers forgot the point of building your own PC.
I’m pretty sure if no one buys there stuff they will just make significantly worse spec and quality products, sell them for less but still keep there high margins.
You are 100 % on point. I can't even buy a graphics card anymore. I got a 3080 for €750 when they released, my wife still has a Vega 56. I would love to replace the Vega 56, but It's just far too expensive to buy anything for a small upgrade, but TBH motherboard prices keep me from buying a new PC at all.
@@thehellscourge My 1080ti died in March, and I held my nose and bought a 4080. While spending that kind of money on a single component disgusted me, the prices haven't moved in 6 months, I've suffered no depreciation at least.
@@rebdomine1 Good god, yeah. I was pondering a 40XX too but those prices... its just, jesus fucking christ. Even the 3080 was IMHO way too overpriced. I had a 1070 before, that thing cost like 400 bucks back in the day and I felt that was a fair price.
Hearing Jay talk about how good the 1070 was for its time makes me think I choose the right GPU for my first build in 2016 and got a 1070 for $350. Had it for over 5 years and was able to keep up at 2K resolution with quite a few games.
You nailed it Jay. The steep price trends and lack of good product options at more budget friendly prices are killing my interest in PC tech, and gaming. I'm sick and tired of the price hikes, poor availability, and the lack of decent options. Back in the day, the HD 7900 series and GTX-700 series had more affordable versions under their flagship cards. So did the GTX 900 series and R7 and R9 offerings. Thats about the time I got into all this "PC master race" stuff and it was all a very satisfying for me at the time. As you said, "it was the golden age". But a lot of people didn't get to live through that and experience those days. What PC enthusiasts are faced with now is beyond reason and there is no available option. Many folks just pay what ever the price is and deal with it. For me, I have a basis of comparison that goes back to those good ol days. I already paid for the Z790 and 13700K, all that I have to do now is take the RTX 4090 out of the box and install it. But the receipt says I can return it for a full refund. I'm having a moment of clarity. Probably gonna send the GPU back and sell the rest on ebay. I see no joy in owning all this after paying an arm and a leg.
Even if I could afford a 4090 I really dont think I could bring myself to buy one, so I get it. Especially when that could just get me a whole new pc on the latest platform and a pretty ok amd gpu and some left over for a new overpriced game XD
It's killing games too. If the market shrinks and people pass up or go second hand market because new is more expensive, then games have to run on older cards to sell.
You won't get back what you paid for it, might as well just keep it and use it. Already bought it. Better to have what you paid for, then to sell it and maybe get half to get something worse, y'know?
Go get another job. The problem is the cost of everything including cars, rent, food, etc have skyrocketed! My old employer did not believe in raises above 3% so I was able to afford less and less. To add insult to injury they added back to the office for collaboration and ended work at home. I quit and got a job that pays 30% more. Now I was about to upgrade my PC lol. Wage shop to get around the inflation
Funny little data point here: I was pretty into pc building... until I discovered Framework (and realized that I don't actually care about having top performance and appreciate portability lol) Decent performance from a company that prioritizes longevity and sustainability.... a lot of people would appreciate the option if they knew it existed :)
Definitely spot on and agree 100% on all of what was said here. The market is insanely high (especially GPU's) and needs to drop to reasonable prices already. TBH, if Amazon didn't have a monthly payment option for me at the time I got the EVGA 3080-Ti, I wouldn't have even tried to get it. I most likely would have gotten a 3060 or something around that price range. I may not be upgrading for a long while, or just go back to consoles for gaming if it stays like this.
Damn, Jay! Hit that on the nose. I have moved myself out of the modern gaming space totally. I am 100% retro gaming now. About a year ago, I built myself a computer with some cheap used parts to try to get back into modern gaming. 500$ didn't get me within 3 years of present. I still couldn't game competently. After much tuning and testing, I made it to 2021 spec. Then my used processor burned up. I am completely finished with gaming in the modern era. The games suck and microtransactions abound. Plus, try to buy a PC that will play today's games for less than a grand. You can't. I'm done. I bought a 200$ laptop with a low power little baby of an Intel (5090 I think) and it plays games from 10 and 15 years ago so well that it is shocking. So I play old console games (GC and PS2) and old PC games from the dos era until about 9 years ago. And that works for me. When a good game finally comes out, I will see if a PC that can play it is less than 600$. If those 2 conditions are ever met again, count me in. I will play. But until then, call me retro man. There are literally thousands of video games that I haven't played and there are hundreds that I have. So my library is functionally infinite. I have more games on my crappy laptop right now than I will ever be able to play in my whole lifetime. So screw the industry. Thanks for reading my rant. 😁
Computer things, it is a passion. I’m one of those people, Jay, I went through quite a violent breakup that left me not wanting to live anymore. I dove head-first into computer hardware to keep myself occupied and to stop planning “the end,”watching your videos along others actually, and I’m still here years later. This stuff is therapeutic, or it used to be when things were affordable. Ngreedia really needs to divorce their AI stuff from graphics cards… but as Jay also said, the consumers with deep pockets enabled them. They saw that people can and WILL buy the expensive cards… What a predicament we have
Thing is a passion will, for most people, garner only a segment of the spare cash. I can easily afford a top of the line PC each year. I won't. I can touch grass for free, I can visit historical landmarks for less than a new PC each year, let alone a top of the line one, etc. But I refuse to pay that much MERELY FOR A PASSION. By not selling lower end cards, by pricing their stuff higher, the market WILL SHRINK. Fair enough, but that means less CPUs are bought, less games that don't run acceptably on older and lower speed cards. Some will get a console, but it WILL be less, because some will not find games they like playing on a console with a controller, others will touch grass instead.
Yeah I was so excited to upgrade my computer over black friday, but I ended up deciding to just keep going with the one I've been using for the past 6 years. I've built a few PCs in my life, always with a budget of around 900$, not counting accesories like monitor and keyboard. This was the first time I realized I wouldn't really get a significant upgrade out of it.
I'm not familiar with your channel but given how quality this video is and how important this topic is, I'm subscribing. I was an old school PC gamer. I still remember installing my first video card when those were new. I used to build PCs. I tried to transition to a laptop for work reasons. I didn't like it so a few years later when it came time to replace it, I decided to build a desktop. I was in for a rude awakening at how drastically the market had changed. I feel like I paid an arm and a leg and I'm using mid tier components. I don't know if I'm going to be up for that a second time. This will kill PC gaming. There's only so much money we have.
3 times, 3 card generations, I tried to upgrade from a 1060. The 20 series was way overpriced and too small of a performance bump for rasterization alone, and that's all that mattered then, since ray tracing wasn't a thing in games yet. The 30 series looked good, then pandemic shortage and scalping hit. The 40 series was scalping from Nvidia itself. I considered a 4070, and might still get a system with one at some point, but the funny thing is that I got used to saying no to bad deals. I want a new PC, but I don't need one yet. I want to play Starfield, but I have many other games to play that don't need newer hardware. So both the PC-hardware and games industries don't get my money just yet. I'm just one guy, but I guess I'm not alone. Screw this noise. Wake me up when pricing sanity returns.
honestly, i just picked up a used 3070 for a little under 300. it's a gamble, but deals are out there if you scour. not syaing your wrong. just letting someone know where they might get some help.
I recently needed to do some upgrades. I needed 4 new PCs. I considered component upgrades vs buying complete systems. It turned out I could get the complete systems from Lenovo with 12th gen i7s and RTX 3060 cards for $1000 each. I could have built better, but it would have cost a lot more. I 'settled' for these because the cost/benefit ratio was more promising than patting myself on the back for doing it myself at a premium. Yeah, they are a year old, and yeah they are 3060s vs 4k series cards, but they perform as expected and I can take the money that I ddin't waste on premium and used it productively. My cost offset in comparison was more than $2000 total even after upgrading each system to 32GB RAM and adding additional 2 TB SSDs. I prefer to use my money wisely and productively rather than waste it on lights, unnecessary features, and hype.
Back in 2013, when I was 18, I dropped €900 on this prebuilt ACER rig. It had an Intel Core i5 3350P, 8 gigs of RAM, and a GTX 660. My storage was a small SSD for the OS and a beastly 1TB HDD. Fast forward to 2019, I went full DIY and spent €1,140 on a custom build. It was an AMD Ryzen 2700, a basic ASUS mobo, 16 gigs of RAM, and an AMD Radeon RX 5700XT. I carried over my trusty 3TB HDD and slapped in a small SSD for the OS. In 2022 was the year I decided to spoil myself. I dropped a hefty €2,872 on an enthusiast build with an AMD Ryzen 7 7700X, 32 gigs of RAM, and a 1TB Gen4 NVMe SSD for the OS. I recycled some storage from my old rigs and threw in an AMD Radeon RX 7900XT for the cherry on top. Now, looking back, I gotta admit, I kinda regret spending that much in 2022. PC parts got cheaper afterward, and I probably should've waited. But hey, we live and learn, right?
I think there’s also a problem with distrust when it comes to the secondhand market. If there were some way to guarantee that you aren’t buying some burned out mining card, or something that was “refurbished” for a serious issue, I think people would definitely go for that instead. I know there are things like buyer protection in place, but some of the secondhand prices with buyer protection can get pretty crazy too. I think it’s the same for sellers too, because I wouldn’t blame someone for not trusting me when I’m just wanting to offload some extra cost and pass off my old GPU, but that just tends to steer people toward more popular resellers. It’s a tough market :/
A mining card saw less heating than an avg gaming card with a tiny overclock. Mining card, actually got UNDER volted and core clocks UNDER clock, its the mem clock that got optimized to the lowest viable voltage to lower energy cost per hash rate. I still daily drive my GTX 1060 in the living room and it used to daily mine with a hard locked fan at 50% with a persistent temp of 55c
This is why I always make sure to properly look at the seller of a product. Often those who sell burned out stuff will usually have them come back to haunt them. I only buy from maybe 3 sellers to specialize in refurbished for multiple years and they always bring the quality I want.
Thinking mining cards are "burned out" is the biggest gimmick why prices are still high. During the gpu crisis I was happily gaming during the day and mining at night to recoup those costs. My gtx1060 that I used is still going strong with the highest oc I could find from NEW and that's while it paid for both my electric bill and the new price of the card so it wasn't mined a little either
@@Guardian_Arias I agree with this, I remember buying a "used" mining card rx 6600 and when It arrived, it looked nearly brand new, still perfectly fine today (using the pc with it now lol)
I miss the “Golden Years” of pc gaming/building. Late 90’s to mid 2000. You had options and prices where (memory excluded) reasonable. You paid for what you wanted/needed and build quality of the components was in general a lot better. No RGB stuff (except if you wanted too) and real innovation was going on. If you wanted to spend 30 dollar on a sound card, it was fine. If you wanted a Soundblaster AWE32, you could spend hundreds. But there were options.
I remember the PC FOrmat campaign against price gouging on games prices here in the UK... we managed to get them slashed from a typical £50 or so (X-Wing, for example) down to around half that. Perhaps we need to consider trying to do the same with hardware?
You just explained the whole greedflation going on everywhere. Great video, sad news is it's not just computers, but everything from cars to food, to gas, to homes.
This is why you are my favorite youtuber ( NOT influencer 😅) Unfortunately I fear this is not going to change how the industry, Nvidia in particular, or ASUS for that matter, operates... As long as there are idiots to buy stuff at these rediculous prices, the companies will keep charging them. Remember that something is only worth as much as someone is willing to pay for it. I, too, admittedly, am such an idiot. And don't get me started about the condition games are being launched in these days.... It really is a sad time when you have the most top-tiered gaming hardware available on the rediculously overpriced market, and you can't even decently run a newly released title. It's just embarrasing.😢
I'd like to see a graphic with pricing vs performance 🤔. My 2 cents on the matter; Everybody is started using the Apple tactics. Create a halo product which kind of excuses the insane prices by using FOMO and exclusivity to groom and create a new reference price point. If you release a 2000$ product as the benchmark dream product all of a sudden paying 700$ to feel you are still relevant ( for what ever that is) seems viable option. This probably also explains why CPU's aren't that effected, they don't have the the appeal a Graphics card has, marketing wise. This also alienates consumers, they feel if they can't buy the halo product they better give up. They say 'fuck it I'm out' in stead of saying "fuck it I.ll just buy an affordable PC". The marketing is just so focused on "Only the best is good enough".
CPUs dont impact performance at 4K in the way GPUs do. I remember seeing benchmark vid of a 2080Ti with a 3600 ryzen, and the 3600 onky got 5% less FPS.
Agree on the mobo point...when i went from FX to am4 i spent $345 AU on a crosshair board. Since it died a few weeks back im upgrading to am5. A BASIC ENTRY LEVEL GIGABYTE BOARD is $299 AU like wtf
I remember NVIDIA saying something along the lines of “we had to increase the price due to inflation and supply shortages” meanwhile their profits are the highest they’ve ever been. It’s not just tech either, it’s pretty universal. We are living in a pretty shitty time.
Every company took advantage of the shortages and inflation. It really is a shitty time, wages haven't gone up for the majority of us (the minority top 10% is what is shown in the headlines). My friend was talking about houses in the UK- he said part ownership is the way. I said no its not, the problem now is every ceo wants to own us. we will own nothing, and we will be forced to be happy about it
billionaire bounty hunt???
Welcome to late stage capitalism.
@@buddybleeyes so it's circle, again they take from people...
i mean i know nothing but at least Ram and ssd is cheap as hell now i think
The auto industry seems to be following a similar trend. They primarily focus on selling their high-margin vehicles, often neglecting the affordability factor for the average consumer. The challenge is that not many can afford these premium cars, much like these high-end computers.
This guy knows
This goes for everything across the board. PCs, cars, homes, appliances, etc. Everyone is chasing that champaign lifestyle on a beer budget. Manufacturers and retailers (successfully) convincing consumers that they need to buy more than what is necessary. The detachment from reality is pretty nuts.
Dude it's bad, I'm in the market to replace my focus ST with another performance 4/5 cylinder car and the options start at 40k when they used to be mid 20s, let alone getting another truck.
I just looked at a EU mini car.
In 3 years. The model i look at. Went 57% up in price. And got serveral options removed.
Which could be bought separately.
Basically everyone I know would buy Chinese electric car here in Europe because the "traditional brands" are not even trying to compete with them - they all probably think they will become new luxury brands... Yes, China is subsidizing the car industry but this is not how you solve the problem.
Yup! I was an enthusiast PC-builder for over 25 years, performance parts, watercooling, overlcoking etc... But I've sadly grown completely disintrested. I can afford the current pricing without any problems, but I absolutely refuse to pay what they are asking for enthusiast parts. over the past few years.
Once I built a high-end gaming computer, I was done. Moved on to bigger and better things.
Same, I can afford MSRP even today, but I almost exclusively shop on the used market nowadays. Manufacturers hate the used market. I fully expect they'll introduce some DRM shit to curb it Apple-style soon.
Almost the same, I can't justify the money it would take to upgrade from 1440p and keep 120+ fps, right now. The 4090 can't even do 120 in a bunch of games, much less the 4080 or 7900. The $2000 it would be for the monitor, power supply and 4090 is just a non-starter for me.
Between DLSS getting better and stock returning to normal, I'll wait and see what the 5080 is before deciding to wait for the 6000 series or not.
I also can afford high prices. And I did it a couple summers ago (2021), because I still had 980TIs, and it was finally time to move to a 30xx card, for two computers. But then Apple came out with the M-series chips for their Macs, and those do graphics, compute, AND they don't get hot or cost me a lot in electrical power. So I'm not planning to go to 40xx anytime soon. And THEN Nvidia's dodgy pricing practices chased EVGA out of the graphics industry, and so now I'm done. Going to wait a LONG time before buying another GPU. Like 10 more years long.
Did this man even look at inflation ? cumulative inflation since 2003 is 58.57%. Which means that 99 dollars and now 144 dollar motherboard didn't really increase in price.
EVGA really have foreseen this. it is now impossible for a company to do business with least bit of ethics in the market.
@@TheGuylooking They only left the GPU market.
@@kimblem.w9952 Oh really? I wonder why...
I'm in that boat, I've always had a PC but I but a PS5 instead and kept my computer with 780 card for office things. I also bought a steam deck OLED recently.
Its not just tech, its EVERYTHING. Cars, clothes, homes, tuition, Healthcare etc 👎
@@DegenerateSpeculator word, literally everything is now double the price or more than it was a couple years ago, the greed is insane.
Funny part is that it's happening everywhere, not just in computers. Everything is far more expensive and it doesn't even need to be.
Corporate greed and people just go with it... Because it's either "buying it or not", and we want our things so, we end up agreeing with the price tag despite knowing it isn't right / fair.
@TheLMFAOZ This is when people should just say fuck you and not buy it. That's all the 'inflation' are experiencing is. Pure greed.
Why don't you take one of those things, make it better, and offer it for cheaper?
@@jacobroper6276 i thought about it. Brother used to work with circuits. Old roommate has a 3D printer. It's an idea. But i dont really ave anything to add to that type of schematic
@@jacobroper6276 Why put the onus on me and not the corporatist dogs that are jacking up the prices just to see higher profits? You're shifting the focus to me rather than to who needs to be focused on.
Spot on, Jay. We are/have been groomed to accept and deal with sub-par PC releases, overpriced GPUs and hardware. All these companies are racing against eachother to have the highest record profits and blaming price increases on "inflation".
Thank you for being one of my favourite influencers ;)
It's all for short-term quick gains. But the longer-term effects are worse, but nothing can tank a company quicker than poor reputation and repeated mistakes and bad QC on products.
and all these parts are made for pennies in overseas factories
He did ignore the 3rd reason though. People. These corporation are not private companies. They are public. The reason they are always racing for record profits is because of the public. Who is making the rules on profits? We are. Case in point, bunch of articles and video have come out about the state of Square Enix lately and their stock price has taken a beating. It's all about "they are doomed", they are "bleeding", they might go bankrupt. They are hurting. Now think about this, all this is happening in a down year for then in which they still made a billion dollars PROFIT year to year. But because it was 60% less then the profit from the same time a year ago (but it was still 5 percent more then the year before that), they are all of a sudden in a horrible position. People wonder why these companies nickle and dime and try for every dollar of profit and ignore that they are being forced to because if they don't always make more the WallStreet Elite and everyone else will end up killing the company off. Before day trading and the availability of the internet to allow people to do it themselves, these types of things were blunted because people were not so quick to jump on the band wagons following the "Elite". A billion dollars profit in a bad year. That use to be the mark of a good company. In a bad year year they are still above the balance line. Now, because of day trading and everyone looking for the get rich now instead of long term investments, a billion dollar profit could cause a company to go bankrupt or be bought out.
If these influencers really cared about the consumer they would've stopped accepting these manufacturers contracts to help showcase their goods to the viewers. You know, like how these influencers are using the free goods that they received to show off the viewers of how great it is. Companies are created to make money. This have not changed. Live with it! This "simPATHETIC" victim mentality got to stop.
You cannot do anything about GPU prices unless you can personally make one
Considering Apple and Intel never managed to make one that could compete with Nvidia top tier gpu i would say there is absolutely nothing you can do about this situation.
Gaming gpus are not even Nvidia's biggest revenue generators (gpus for companies and supercomputers are), so all your whining ain't gonna do shit either
Just be grateful that nvidia doesn't pull the plug on their gaming gpu lineup altogether
Built my first computer in 1996. Back then Moore's law was real and every two years it seemed like PC performance doubled, it was crazy what the difference was when you built a new PC and compared it to your old one. Now days you may see 10%-20% performance increase and that's usually in synthetic benchmarks, not something you can actually "feel" when you use it. Yet everything is like 3x what it used to cost back then even when you factor in inflation.
Capitalism demands the exponential growth of profit while the laws of physics are causing an exponential drain on per-generation performance gains. It's not sustainable.
same since 1998.
Same here. I started with a Pentium 166 MMX and the first Half-Life. Good times =)
This is prettt far off, man. Sorry. But its just wrong. It also depends on how youre upgrading. Are u upgrading from a mid range to a mid range high end to a midrange? Also, 2 years is not the normal length of time the vast majority of people would upgrade an entire rig. But if u wait a more normal 4-6 years for a full upgrade, and stay in the same price range you will easily see a doubled performance increase. Think about the difference between an rtx 2080 and a 3080 alone not even factoring in the cpu increase…even if ur figures were correct which i dont think they are, personally, i wouldnt consider a 20% increase in performance with only 2 years (when staying in the same price range) to be that bad…also, it was a very different time. The biggest change in graphics in the last 5-6 years has been ray tracing and bumps in resolution. The resolution increase from 1080p to 4k being the norm is huge. Ray tracing is awesome but certainly not to a point where a laymen could really tell much difference. My point is graphics technology is advancing slower than it used to. Were probably not going to see the kind of huge graphical advancements that we used to maybe ever again absent some paradigm changing tech being implemented which of course no one can really predict.
Actually you probably talk about early 2000s, in 90s, even late 90s PCs where so expensive that it's incomparable to today prices. Entry level PC was so expensive that you needed to spend equivalent of spending 10000$ (about 2500$ in 90s money). Literally you could buy very good used car for price of entry level PC (say Pentium with 16 Mb of RAM). All that changed when AMD and Nvidia started competing intel and 3dfx. By 2002 you could build very affordable PC, but not before that.
Main issue for me is that for the price I paid 10 years ago for a lower-mid tier PC, I’m looking at entry-level components in today’s market. Even if the performance is better, it still feels like I’m being ripped off, especially after growing up in the 90s when prices for new releases didn’t really climb very much. You used to be able to buy a similar tier of new computer for the same price you paid for your old one.
I’m genuinely curious if gaming on a reasonably priced machine back in the ‘golden age’ offered nearly the same experience as today at a higher price. From what I understand consoles were greatly favored - tons of games didn’t come to PC at all and many that did were awful ports.
@@jmass4207 It went both ways; there were a number of PC classics that either never made their way to console, or were ported poorly. Honestly, the preference for consoles probably had more to do with price-point than anything. My PS1 was $99 when I got it about a year after release. My home PC around that same time was ~$500, which then needed about $100-300 in additional RAM and a graphics card to really be capable of gaming to varying degrees. $600-800 was insane for a gaming device, but if you already had a family computer, the upgrade cost wasn't so bad. A decent, modern (at the time) gaming PC has always been achievable in the $600-800 price-range, at least until now
@@jmass4207 Back when I got my 1060 6GB for £220, it wiped the floor with the consoles... that was 3 years into the PS4 & XB3; we're now 3 years into PS5 & XB4, and at that price range you can just about match them. The equivalent PC > Console performance would be the 4070 at £570+.
10 series really was the golden age in that PC ports stopped sucking & most games came out on PC & console at the same time; equally it's just after the point when console exclusives went from 5 per year, to 10 per life-cycle (and not all good).
PC probably still breaks even for life-cycle-cost (at the mid range) once you factor in now-mandatory internet-access fees & pricer games on console, but it's not the cut-and-dry cheeper & more performant option it used to be.
@@jmass4207it depends on what era, but generally gaming on PC has always been a superior experience to console if you could afford it. Very early on consoles had a multiplayer advantage, but when gaming over a modem became possible pc was always the better choice.
@@jmass4207 For some 2008 context my first fully new build cost me $400 (no monitor/keyboard/mouse) and was more than enough to enjoy PC gaming at an equal level to what I enjoyed on my Xbox 360. I didn't upgrade that computer until 2013.
Yes it could run Crysis - yes it was on minimum
Most ports weren't great but the majority of games were still developed PC first or PC equal. There was also a vibrant community of PC only games. LoL, WoW, CS, pretty much every world builder, games with deep game mechanics - all of these were PC only.
'PC Master Race' weren't trying to play shitty CoD ports and calling them equal to the console - they were playing their own games & asking why console players weren't interested in the much deeper, better designed, & immersive gaming experience PC offered. Kinda like how we look at mobile only gamers and say 'wait - THATS gaming to you?'
Consoles were to PC gaming what mobile gaming is to consoles now - a pretty good, consistent gaming experience that introduced a huge new demographic to the bewilderment of the old guard.
But thats ok - as long as you're having fun & not being taken advantage of by some corporation offering video game gambling to children, or destroying the industry for short term bonuses & golden parachutes.
What really pisses me off is within the last 6 years or so, the lack of basic features on even expensive motherboards. I remember back in 2017 building my 7700K machine, the Gigabyte motherboard I got had all of the bells and whistles, completely overkill in terms of features, even has a swappable audio chip, a debug readout, power and reset buttons directly on the board, and a crap ton of USB 3.0. I remember it being something like $160, I think.
Nowadays, I'm looking at boards and they're over $300, and you're lucky if it has a debug readout, much less reset or power buttons. Basic f-cking features that should be on basic f-cking boards, but they're typically only available on $400-$600 motherboards, which somehow nowadays aren't even top-end boards, but middle of the road. Because apparently a top-end motherboard will cost you $800-$1200 Wtf is going on?! The industry is literally trying to kill itself.
"Our sales are down, expenses are up, let's up our prices to compensate!"
"Oh no, our sales are down, let's up our prices to compensate!"
"Oh look, sales went down again, let's up our prices to compensate!"
See where this is going? Eventually there'll be no one left who can afford to buy your stupid products just to play a stupid broken ass game. Time to start going outside again, because PC gaming is being sabotaged from the inside-out.
And don't even get me started on games today. Don't get me wrong, I like Starfield, but the game runs like ass while at the same time looking like sh-t. I don't get it. I'm running a 3080 Ti, 5800X3D system that was the end-all-be-all just a year ago, and now it can barely run a game that looks decidedly last gen. I'm struggling to maintain 60FPS at 2560x1080 on a PC that cost thousands of dollars just a couple years ago. Something's gotta give.
the fact theres still boards without wifi just so you buy the Wifi version with plenty of features no casual pc player like me care about is all you need to know bout modern practices in the MB business
my 6800xt/5800x3d runs star at 75fps in cities at 1440P, sounds like you're 4k ?
Back when I upgraded to a 8700K with a Z chipset plus RAM and a case, I paid around $800 Canadian. I just upgraded to a 13600K with a B chipset and reused my RAM and case for... $800 Canadian. 🤦🏻♂️
Starfield is made with a shit engine from 1997 and is a Bethesda game. They legit do not care about optimisation.
Never understood the hype for it. Played it myself and was quite whelmed lmao
You purchased Starfield. You. Purchased. Starfield.
You yourself (and people like you) are responsible for the entire situation you described in your own comment
Another problem when finding more budget friendly parts is that A lot of times, there aren't many reviews to go by. When I was looking for a decent mobo, there were only 2 or 3 reputable channels who were able to give an in depth review for these products.
Nit to mention that these devices don't seem to be fully tested before shipping, such as with the AM5 ASUS explosions.
Actually Hardcore Overclocking has a overview of motherboards.
@@Gravstein thanks for the reco, we should probably make a list of youtubers who tests motherboards lol.
I was on the same boat. I think it was only hardware Unboxed who tested the midrange motherboard and GPU/CPU I was looking into. All other videos about the parts I got where from smaller channels. The bigger channels no longer cover the entry level or mid-range as much as they should.
One word, shareholders. Make worse products that don't last (or constantly change sockets) and you eliminate the secondary markets. Profit.
Well said 👏
Everyone are trying to find better ways to invest for their retirement. Business, at least publicly traded companies, have a fiduciary responsibility to the shareholders. That being said, could they have a different responsibility besides a monetary one? Yes. However, how much are shareholders willing to shave off their earnings in terms of percentages? A company may have alternative KPIs to meet but if they are unable to keep the business afloat then those KPIs are for naught.
We may want better products but at the end of the day how much are you willing to spend if "cheap stuff" start to get more expensive. We are seeing this now where the iPhones made in India are more expensive because Apple is required to sell iPhones made in India. However, their costs are higher so in order to cover Apple's profit margins the price has to go up.
That's the cost of doing business in India for Apple.
With the help of game developers and software too.
More the system than the shareholders, if I'm not mistaken, companies have a legal obligation to make the highest amount of money for their shareholders, yes, shareholders are the face of the problem, but I think the root of the problem is the fact that a company needs to make them money, or they can get in trouble.
Sure. But the market didn't say no to any price increase.
People paid silly cash for an upgrade when they could have no, I'm good for a few more years until the supplier responded.
I built my first PC in 1992. I only used top end components, the best performance-wise that was on the market. It cost me around $1000. It still runs today, too.
The worst part is realizing that the 2060 had a chip that was 42% of a 2080ti. The 3060 is 33% of a 3090ti and the most recent 4060 is only 17% of a 4090. Meanwhile prices were only rising.
Looking at the specs the 4060 is built like the 3050, 4060 ti built like a 3060 (now with a smaller bus width) and so on. All except the 4080 and 4090. 80 series got a $500 aka 71% price hike this gen so value is trash. Pretty much made every card besides the 4090 a terrible value right off the bat. 4070 is better now at $550 but it would be best to see it in the sub $500 price point.
It's because corrupted boomers are running the world. People in generation (millenials) need to start stepping up to the plate and and wrangling everything back in. These folks have lived a lavish lifestyle for decades that went unnoticed up until my generation hit the scene and the internet was the main source for info. Democrat and Republican boomers are allowing these folks to squeeze us dry while they kick backs and donations to their campaigns. Nancy pelosi is a prime example of that corruption with the chip market, she invested a whole bunch of money into a company a few days prior to meeting with them, she met with them and the implemented legislation that greatly benefited that company and their stock price shot up and she made several million dollars in 1 day. It's those types who are ruining it for us who just wanna get by, have fun, and have a nest egg, instead 70% of Americans have less then $1000 in their bank account. Nothing will change if we don't implement leadership in government who actually cares about us and not themselves.
This is an underrated comment.
They kill the 60 series. Wait, is there a 50 series? Well, sure, for play Doom and Age of Empires 1... Maybe a Grim Fandango?
The final price is made using "the disposal of buyer to buy the product". As long the money flow, the price increases.
fantastic video, the pricing for PC's has really gotten out of control. had a friend think he needed a $600 motherboard and he is not going to be over/underclocking anything. people are spending 3k on what would have been an $900 PC not that long ago.
fantastic? i disagree
in a half hour video he completely ignored what caused the increase in hardware costs - cryptomining. hardware manufacturers saw a massive surge in demand, saw people making making money from their products and naturally wanted a piece of it. even though the mainstream cryptomining era might have ended, the hardware industry got a taste of crypto profits which explains their reluctance to lower prices
also i dont agree that pc pricing is the main reason behind the decline in the quality of games. the whole unity fiasco led me to believe that it's the "effective" managers and similar types of greedy soulless vermins who i should blame but thats a whole different topic
@@busta798 to borrow a quote from Star Trek . . . it's those soulless minions of orthodoxy
@@busta798wasn't just cryptomining 😂. Cryptomining only really affected GPUs, he specifically talked about motherboards, It's purely greed.
@@busta798 This started long before crypto did. Started with the 20 series. All the crypto shit just accelerated the process. Either way, even with crypto mining cooling way down, people are still buying enough of this crap for Nvidia and AMD to continue on as they are. Also, you're ignoring half of this video and the point Nick is making, that the average consumer has _little to no comprehension of what they actually need_ which manufacturers used to trick them all into giving manufacturers an excuse to say "see? there's no market for a lower price range."
@@busta798 *"...also i dont agree that pc pricing is the main reason behind the decline in the quality of games."*
A hot dog seller can _want_ to start selling poo dogs instead of hot dogs... He can _want_ to all day long... But how will he actually _sell_ any poo dogs if no one is willing to pay for them?
The GPU shortage screwed the entire computer industry, once companies saw customers gladly shelling out $3k for video cards the flood gates opened for the rest of the market but now the high proces coupled with a gaming industry that sux, they are shooting themselves in the foot.... Again
I blame those people paying scalpers.
I bought my 6900XT card at MSRP but it's elevated because it's a aftermarket card from Asus, and used it for non-gaming tasks
@@Aereto the shortage had lasted for almost 3 years - depending on the place in the world, and GPUs don't last forever, so all the people having a card for already 1+ year in 2019 were looking at upgrading from a (or replacing a malfunctioning) 4+ year product at elevated prices.
While the people, who are upgrading within the same generation or buying a near top/premium product (like 6900XT) - are the said whales, lol.
@@Aeretopeople do what people do; this high demand/paying won’t last forever - that‘s how a crash is born…
@@memespeech The "Replacing a malfuncioning 4+ year product" one was what my dad had to do.
Smack in the middle of the shortage and crypto craze his 1060 kicked the bucket and not even the reflow method with the heatgun fixed anything. He had to get a new GPU ASAP cause that week he had to edit a video and send it out, and the cheapest card he could find in stock (that wasn't a GT 710) was a 3060 priced at €700, and this coming from one of the cheapest pc stores in the entire country!
Nowadays the card he got, TUF Gaming 3060 12gb, is sitting around €450 in that store and it's main competitor (should mention 23% VAT since americans get surprised about the price disparity compared to US prices). I was gonna upgrade my 1060 to it, but then saw a 6700XT Sapphire Pulse being sold for €425 and grabbed it, cause you're not getting any GPU between the 3060Ti and 3070 performance range at that price anytime soon in this country (usually they go for €500).
But I haven't forgotten how much a "top priced" xx60 Nvidia card cost back in the 10 Series here: under €400. I paid €380 for the 1060 Strix, and the only 1060 that cost more than that was the Gigabyte one
Big reason for that demand was crypto mining that fucked pricing
This was your most important video to date. Working at a minimum wage in a rich country it took me three years to buy my computer. Part by part. I started with a premade (decent motherboard) and built it until it had a gtx 1070, 16gb ram, SSD and 4790K.
It was very expensive but the most rewarding thing I ever did.
Now I look at the prices of RAM, graphics cards, motherboards, etc, and I just can't fathom buying a new computer. It would take me five years to upgrade, so what is the point?
I can build a 12600k with z690, 32gb ddr5, 2TB NVME SSD, and a 3060 12GB for $1300... and that's with one of the best non water-cooled cpu coolers and a $200 Fractal Torrent case for airflow. $10/hr is about $300 a week after taxes, so you're looking at about 5 weeks of pay including sales taxes. That's about 10% of your income. If you can't manage that in a single year, you're making major mistakes somewhere. Not to mention you're still on LGA1700 socket so free to upgrade to 13th or 14th gen when you want.
Also before you bring up the minimum wage thing... I live in Alabama. We get paid less here than pretty much the entire US, and I'd find it hard to even find a job that pays less than $10/hr unless it's fast food with literally zero experience.
@@Freek314 Bruh he never said that he was from the US, pricing is different all over, every reagion has its own income-to-cost ratio, just getting a GPU some time back cost me what was like two minimum wage salaries where I lived at the time, sheesh.
@@Box-O-Soldier He said he's from a rich country and I'm in probably the 2nd worst paid state in the US. Why do I feel like you paid less attention than me? Honest and sincere condolences on your economic woes, though. I know how rough it can be... my fiancee is Turkish and things haven't been going well there at all recently...
@@Freek314 usa has the cheapest prices for tech while having high wages. It's not "a rich country" it's the richest.
I'm just going to say it. I think this is probably one of your best videos ever, and I sincerely hope the manufacturers are watching. This is what all of the tech viewers are thinking. Thank you for saying it.
It's more then just price gouging. The printing of money has made our money worth less
I'm glad Jay took the "Red Pill" and shared his thoughts publicly. If fewer people get into computers as they cannot afford to buy one, interest on that industry will further wane over time which will affect future generations of qualified professionals. These big tech/computer manufacturers will have difficulty finding ideal employees for the job and will affect their business in the long term. They should balance out what they're doing. Too much greediness will ruin everything for everyone.
They can't hear anything under the pile of profits they're swimming in.
@@rendcycle Executives don't sabotage their industry for short term gains challenge. (Impossible!)
@@rendcycleI don't think businessmen care that much what things will be in a future that doesn't directly affect them. If they can make things in a way they'll life a good life but everyone else that comes after they're gone will live a miserable life, they'll take the first option 100%. I remember there was a king in the bible that was like "if I'm okay, then fuck my sons" when god told him he would destroy his kingdom after he died - same thing today.
You've hit the nail right in the head! We've been groomed to accept crap / mediocre quality stuff and see it as AWESOME and EXCITING!
Thank you for coming forward and being honest on this.
So, what does the 'Z' stand for?
@@CosmicClericZealously
@@kyyuhl Nah, that can't be it. Doesn't make sense in the context of the name. Nobody has ever laughed their f'ing ass off zealously.
Ok.. crap mediocre? I wouldn't say that. Gpu's are a powerhouse nowdays. Overpriced? For sure.
@@CosmicCleric it's for ... Z-Germans....
Thank you for this video. You expressed perfectly how the vast majority of the PC gaming community is feeling right now. I've been building computers since 1998 and lately I see a lot of veterans in the field saying "this isn't worth it anymore, I'll just get a ps5 and be done with it, I'm out".
But right now a 5600x, cheap b550 and say a 4060/7060/6700xt is cheap imo. Budgets for all.
@@Djuntas Yeah, I agree 100%, but most people aren't knowledgeable enough to buy value parts like that and fall for the marketing tricks, sadly.
@@PalatechGaming I guess so, still I dont see the point of complaning about PC parts, because it has never been better now end of 2023. Legit FSR/DLSS is major help, especially on say laptops. The PC I have now is slight overkill for my uses, but I know it will age better than me 970/I5 4590 for sure. I plan on having it for more than 8 years due to DLSS.
@@Djuntas Upscaling sucks. period.
@@Djuntas Well, the complaints are due to terribly unoptimized games like starfield. Someone who bought a card like an rtx 3060ti brand new for 1000 bucks like almost one year ago now can't run the game at 1080p with decent settings. That's outright disgusting and if this trend continues I see many people quitting pc building altogether and I can't blame them.
I picked up a RX580 for $100 new and that was the last GPU I purchased before the madness ensued.
Wake me up when the hardware prices are worth considering and games are worth a damn.
I bought sapphire nitro version for 200 euros. Still playing games on high or max. Naturally i turn off or lower stuff that barely do anything but eat a lot of fps.
I am happy with my purchase. Thing is now I would like to buy a noticeable upgrade and new card would cost like 400 euros plus.
You could build a great PC for a decent price. Now prices are so high that it feels like you are buying most high end stuff.
have a nice slumber cuz, it never going to revert.
Bought a RX580 in Feb 2020 for 180. 2021 they were on amazon for 800. They are back down to 150. Prices have gone back down, WAY down from what they were. Just picked up a RX6700XT for 360 and it is the best!
@@iamsancho304 I remember that time too. Which is why I am very happy that I bought my GPU before the market shit itself.
Honestly now I could sell my RX 580 for about 100 euros and buy RX 6600 for 220 euros. It would be 20-30fps boost. Not bad. I get a lot of money back for 6 year old card and get decent boost. Currently I am waiting for prices to change but if nothing changes then I am thinking about 6700 XT too. RX 580 still carries me far but a card with 2x power on 1080p I think is a great upgrade. I am sure it's great purchase but I am trying to have a bit more patience to see if there will be any changes.
no you didnt get it for $100 new without some act of god and no you aren't even close to reasonable. "GAS BETTER GET BACK DOWN TO $2/GAL OR ILL NEVER DRIVE AGAIN". ok bud
It used to be fairly easy to create a "console killer" with new pc parts but now it's nearly impossible. You have too buy used parts and exclude things from the final builds total in order to get it even close.
My last PC upgrade was at the start of this year, from Ryzen 5 1400 to 5500, and now, just a few weeks earlier, I decided to buy a PS5 for AAA gaming. My GPU (RX580 8GB) is still plenty for PC multiplayer games, but it won't cut it for AAA titles going forward anymore, especially not at 2K resolution. The PS5 will play the latest and greatest games at 4K60 for the next 6 years at the very least. That's 600€ for a brand-new GPU (and even more € considering the other upgrades I would have to make to take full advantage of the GPU, like the PSU and the Motherboard, we are getting up to the thousands of €), versus 550€ for a PS5 that will last longer.
It was a no-brainer decision for me, a PC gamer for the last 10 years.... the last PlayStation I owned was the PS2...
No you dont. A 3060 is on par or even beats a ps5 or a series x. Lol
not Nearly it is impossible ps5 is like 500 cant get even descent gpu for that lol.
@@mbazoka Smart move got power moded 3080 under water and that barely cuts it for AAA games. Fuck im running cyberpunk at like 45fps with 175hz oled monitor lol
@mbazoka what is this advertisement lmfao ps5 doesn't come close to 4k 60, it can be as bad as 720p upscaled with FSR 1.0 (like in ff16) your supposed PC can do the same. You aren't a PC gamer but a fanboy. Lol
I tried to make this point when the 3090 released. But no reviewer wanted to discuss the actual purpose of the 3090, to change the price paradigm. They wanted to focus on performance. Jay said the truth, "influencers" helped change the landscape. They need to own that.
Yeah, there was some fairly hushed discussions about the 90 series replacing the Titans as the flagship card only because it was a price point push. And the 90 series not actually being as good for the work the Titans were designed for.
But now with team green designing AI specific cards that would be even better for that Titan scope of work, the 9 series is just stupid.
The 1st/original Titan card was the beginning of the end in the making...
That's no different than Titan did in the past, which is just being the highest but also overpriced part.
Dont play 4k no need crying, 300 is good prize gpu
@@kicapanmanis1060 a salient point, but the Titan line was never marketed as a consumer GPU. It was sold as a high end commercial card. The 9 series is being sold as a consumer card, and most importantly, its BUILT as a "8 series but better" card, which the Titan line wasn't.
I remember maybe 12 years ago I splurged $400 on an 7950GT which ran everything I threw at it, and I remember thinking about how much money that was. Insane how far the prices have gone up since then
Adjusted for inflation, $400 in 2006 (when the 7950GT launched) is $600 today
Yeah, i felt sick having been forced to spend like 800$ to get a 3060TI with a decent non-trash stock cooler when my GPU died in the middle of "the great shortage".
You can still buy a 7900XT for less then 700$ of you look around a bit.
The problem arises when clueless Joe goes in a shop and buys the same card for 950$, or pays 600$ for a 4070, that should actually be a 4060TI, or 500$ for a 4060/16 that Is barely a 4050.
@@GMProspect ($600 in today's dollars for a top of the line card at the time)
@@cardellbarkhorn yes, but when we talk about inflation we are talking about today and comparing it to a time in the past.
So to be fair, here’s the better comparison: You needed a $600 (AFI) card to play Crysis on high settings in 2007, but today you can spend less to do that. So performance per dollar has actually improved.
As RUclips and the channels on the platform mature, this is the kind of content we need. Big picture, not the latest flash in the pan. Thanks for the video Jay.
Agree, and this would have taken weeks to pull together. Great content
It's targeted mainly at the Linux crowd (both gaming and productivity stuff) rather than general gamers, but I've seen Phoronix also doing graphs of benchmarks/MSRP, benchmarks/power consumption, etc. as part of their reviews and category rundowns for components, rather than just comparing straight benchmarks, and I find it very helpful. Seems like a very important factor that's being ignored in a lot of discussion. It's easy to find companies offering good performance, it's hard to find companies offering good value.
Building a computer in 90s, 00s, 10s and now in 20s is complete different worlds. I'd say up to 2010 it was a 'geek' thing, now because of the social media and influencing it is a 'trend' thing and it is shocking that nowadays even people who build these computers, dont care(and in most cases dont know) about specs or technological terminology. All they do is a 'custom build' from a free builder template online, throws in max rgb lights. And charges a work price for it.
🤓
To be fair the prices are pretty similar to the 90
Building a PC literally changed my life drastically. I was bouncing from job to job not knowing really what I wanted to do. Then I built a PC after losing my job in the dark times and fell in love with computers. Started school for computer science and now got a career I'm all about. Also shout out to you and other tech channels for having a huge impact on me finally pulling the trigger on building a PC. Thanks
In what way has building a pc change ur life
@@zilverhearthe literally explained it in the comment
It's such a grossly saturated field. I would advise youngin's to look elsewhere. All of those "learn to code" campaigns are going to bite a lot of people in the ass with the continual improvement of AI and capitalism being the economic system.
@@synergygaming65 seeing as a lot of businesses are starving for talent, I wouldn't say the market is saturated. Some companies and some niches are saturated, but others will be short staffed for years to come, even with aggressive hiring and training campaigns.
Sure, I wouldn't advise someone to just go through one of those random online coding courses, thinking they'll make it big. But if someone has the passion and wants to put in the work to get the skills, get after it. It's been a while since I've been able to both enjoy and take pride in my job, but here I am feeling incredibly lucky to have found my love for computers
@@ttenor12 his comp science degree changed his life
Price gouging as a result of corporate greed is a recurring phenomenon across all industries post pandemic unfortunately. Corporations got a taste during supply chain shortages and decided they can just charge the consumer whatever they want. The consumer has no choice but to pay up or go without because other corporations follow suit through “price leadership” to keep markets artificially inflated.
They arn’t artificially high. People are willing and able to pay higher prices that is the price.
@@tobymarx-dunn2332 They are artificially high. Luxury goods have artificial pricing, even if people are "willing to pay", it doesn't make the price a fair price.
However, computers are not luxury goods per se, but instead a gateway to other goods. (There is a distinciton between luxury goods such as perfume, which is perfunctioary, and those such as a computer is utility)
If all web browsers suddenly started charging £300 a year, to use them, you'd fork it up. Not because its fair value. However, you're willing to pay as it is a gateway to a variety of other services.
If every new triple A title, wasn't unoptimized garbage, and was able to be ran on old specs, very few people would feel the need to upgrade.
Why get a 12 core cpu, if all of your requirements are already exceeded by your existing setup.
In modern society, a computer is a neccessity, like a mobile phone or internet access is.
If you are into gaming, then a certain level of spec is a neccessity, due to the requirements of the games that are made.
Apart from a very niche set of hobbiests that just max out their build for Performance scores, no one would even buy any of these new GPU or CPU, if existing and future software did not neccessitate it.
@@tobymarx-dunn2332most people don't have a choice on whether or not they buy their family groceries (which have gone up in price almost 40% in my area).
@@tobymarx-dunn2332wtf are you talking about? Only the 1% are able to pay the higher prices, everybody else is struggling. There isn't even a middle class anymore because of greed, there are only the haves and the have nots.
I used to be able to build a solid budget workhorse for around $500-600. These days - $800-1k minimum if you are replacing everything. I've been using an AMD RX 570 for like 3 or 4 years now, because there just aren't any new cards in the price range I can really afford to justify upgrading while this thing is still running fine, which is back down around the sub-$150 range. Steam Deck is starting to look like a real solid option if/when this system gives out if things don't change.
I also was using a 570 on an even older am3 system at 1080p until just recently. An upgrade had not crossed my mind until a friend handed down his am4 with along a 5700xt, which prompted me to spend on a 1440p screen instead. The gains were noticeable, but I can honestly say that the 570/am3 combo would have carried me another few years even at 1440. If it wasn't for my friends spend happy nature, I would have skipped am4 entirely. For me, the value of that 570 can not be overstated.
That being said, Ive had a steam deck about a year now and can say the base model with a cheap SSD upgrade has great value as well. Gave that 570 a run for its money and scratched my itch for new hardware. Ill be completely happy not buying anything else for a while and I think its a great choice for someone that doesn't have unrealistic expectations of what a handheld can do.
Marketplace my friend, marketplace
Keep an eye on the used market and Radeon 6000 series in particular.
Its brutal now, upgraded from 570 to 6700xt for 340£ half a year ago. I bought the 570 used one year after launch for 90 :/ Many people i know purchased consoles in the past few years.
Thank you Jay for speaking up. we appreciate all that you do.
That's what is so wild. A lot of people learned how to run stuff on a Steamdeck. Once you learn to downsize, your computer lasts a lot longer. A Steamdeck costs less than a mid-range video card.
This isn't the solution
@@AnabolicSaagAloo Agreed there are many MANY flaws with the Steam Deck and even the ROG's Ally handheld they both have a lot of features that were clearly cut down on to keep it affordable despite people would clearly pay up for better quality. Its like how ass backwards Apple is with their hardware. If Apple actually made like quote indestructible perfect phones there would always still be ways to make them better. But they don't cause like any arse backwards company they choose to make what makes profits over what makes long term happiness on both sides of the checkout line.
Its like the meme of nokia phones vs Apple phones durability. Apple could make amazing hardware instead they opt for looks 9/10 times and then pay in spades when they get torn to shreds in small claim courts. Over mind boggling terrible designs.
Please enjoy your sub-1080p trash graphics with trash framerates while I indulge myself in the pleasures of playing games in 4K with the best settings at a minimum of 60 fps.
@@SphereofChaos 1440 P is the current real sweet spot. With like 60-144 hz anything more and its loss in terms of noticeable returns.
@@SphereofChaos I actually do notice quite a big difference between 1080p and 4K on my TV. And even on something like the Steam Deck the sub-1080p resolution is pretty damn noticable. Don't assume everyone has trash eyes simply because you have trash eyes.
Thanks for putting out that video. I currently don't upgrade my pc because of two reasons: 1. That insane prices 2. The low quality of AAA-Games that need such performance.
Same here. I have no interest in garbage AAA titles. Older titles look amazing on midrange cards, so what's the point in buying these 4090s... Looking at shiny pretty garbage? No thanks.
I dont upgrade my pc... cuz i have 700+ games on steamm with 30 i played fully till now.
I dubt ill finish everthing till the day ill die.
@@exvex5108 yes 👍 same here 😲
Love seeing people like you staying passionate and looking out for the majority of potential buyers.
internet reviewers like him are part of the reason prices got stupid. they tell everyone nonstop that even last gen PC parts are inferior and you need to update to the latest, greatest (and more expensive) option.
PC bulding used to be about making a machine better than the sum of it's parts. now, it's just buying all the latest hardware than has differences so minute you can't see them with the human eye.
@@theghostofthomasjenkins9643 Yeah I agree. There are also those fucks that literally have 4090's sitting around that they don't use because "iT dOeSnt MaTch mY CoLOr sCheMe"
This is why budget building is more of a skill than a hobby because you need to squeeze the most performance out of a set budget
@theghostofthomasjenkins9643 jay: "you don't need the latest tech"
Also Jay *has 4090, ddr5, 7950x in personal rig*
I would get it if he had them for testing foe the channel but no he uses it for personal use. Rules for thee but not for me.
@@RoofusRoof191000%, to you and Thomas Jenkins.
Agreed. Higher prices just means I'll upgrade less frequently to balance out the increased costs of parts. Which is quite easy to do these days, looking at how terrible gaming has been in recent years.
True. Many people have 775 or 1366 and ok with it.
i was thinking of upgrading my ryzen 7 3700x recently but looking at the motherboard and processor costs, as well as new memory, i thought fuck that im happy with what i got
i wanna know who actually buys these new games or pretends they're amazing like starfield copers
Gaming wasn't terrible in the recent years, AAA market just has less hits on average. They're also not bad but often not taking any risks so you mostly get solid titles with few to no innovation at all. Indie and AA had some real bangers though.
groomed to accept crappy games@@GaaraSama1983
Dude thank you for making this. Been feeling pretty bad about buying mobos and gpus specifically for a long time now. I have a good job, no kids, and can luckily afford my bills, and I still struggle to find the budget for PC upgrades.
Wht about last gen second hands surely the price is cheaper
I picked up a 5900x CPU for $200 used November 2022. July 2023, I picked up a 6800xt for $230. Used is the way to go. Bought an x570 motherboard for $50, but it was a gamble as it was described as having issues. It did not. So you can game on the cheap with a nice system, but I hunt obsessively for cheap used components.
I make upgrades if I can sell my old part for equal to or just shy of the upgraded item. Like I sold my 6700 xt on ebay for about $250, but ebay took it's cut so it wasn't quite a free upgrade to the 6800 xt. 6600 xt to 6700 xt was a similar experience as well. So I upgraded 3 times across one generation for cheap each time. Probably less than $300 out of pocket across all 3 and multiple years of enjoyable gaming. @@uthopia27
@@uthopia27
Sure, until you buy a DOA part off marketplace or CL and end up upside-down on your price saving endeavor.
@@uthopia27
You're demonstrating the problem exactly.
>Guy with No kids
>Has Job
>Comfortable income
>Has to go last gen second hand.
What exactly is the expected customer for being able to buy things new then?
The fact you are even giving that advice is EXACTLY the problem.
I'm sure there will be others who see this and say "Haha stop being poor then"
It isn't even about that, it's about effective value. How is PC gaming worth anyone's time when that's what it asks?
A large amount of the value comes from the value given by others who participate in the space, as price becomes astronomical like this the amount of people in PC gaming shrinks, which in turn makes PC gaming less fun, which in turn means it is an even bigger ask to ask such a door price to get your foot into a door that is increasingly less interesting.
It's like a club asking for a $100 enterance fee.
Great when the club is great, but the club is increasingly boring, neglected and empty, so that $100 is in exchange for less and less value, so we eventually hit the point where the quesiton is "Why would I even want in?"
PC gaming is heading there.
@@DanielTaneski 🔥this is fine🔥
The major issue lies with how everything has increased due to shortages, but now that everything is back in full production, prices stayed the same/went higher.
The craziest part is that these companies are recording record profits at that time and now they are draining because people can't afford it anymore.
Record profits after massive inflation? Shocking. I'm sure that those profits must have just as much purchasing power as before, right? They must be using some _special_ currency separate from the rest of us, right? Because otherwise, those record profits mean shit. But sure, let's keep pretending that economy-wide inflation isn't caused by bad fiscal policy and that it's just because people are getting greedier suddenly.
if record profits mean shit because they are inflation induced why do we insist breaking those records should be the corp priority@@FestusOmega
And no one says anything or does anything about it. Things are about to hit the fan soon
One word: Inflation
@@FestusOmega cool story.
Thanks for posting this Jay. I'd love to see a whole series on building low to mid-tier systems along with installing and tweaking current games to run on that tier of hardware. I think it would encourage more people to dive into the PC gaming world.
This is why I haven't bought a graphics card since 2017 (GTX1080), I cannot justify spending $1500+ Canadian on a 80 series SKU or even $1200 on a 70TI. These prices are just ridiculous and something needs to change. Great video Jay!
You know a $500 6800XT will obliterate a 1080ti, right?
@@mycosys or a 630 buck 6950xt
@@mycosys Hes only looking at nvidia prices xD...
@@mycosys I'm pretty sure 6800 XT isn't $500 Canadian. Where I live (Finland) the cheapest 6800 XT is 580€ which is almost $840 Canadian, though I assume the prices are much lower in Canada but it still must be way more than $500 Canadian
@@Pasi123 my dude. 1) im Australian, and im stuffed if im double converting 2) im Australian and well aware Canadians are even more used to converting than we are, and know that theyre just as used to specifying currency if it isnt US as we are. But yeah 750-800 canuckybucks according to newegg canada
Decided to get into PC gaming after losing my mother and it gave me the distraction I needed to stay sane. Now I see it as one of the best decision I've ever made, I just wish i had gotten into it sooner.
Sorry for your loss. Losing a parent is never easy to cope with; I hope you find peace and solitude.
What's making this even worse now IMO is that a lot of newer games are really badly optimized on PC, and not exactly running well on consoles either. There is little good reason as to why games such as Immortals of Aveum, Remnant 2, Starfield, and more are running as bad as they are on PC. They're also using upscalers as a crutch when they were originally meant for helping with performance under raytracing and performance of older systems.
The funny thing is $699 was seen as quite expensive if you read 1080 Ti reviews from 2017.
But nvidia was king, not too different from today, so overall the price was given a pass.
4 generations later, a card performing similar to 1080 Ti should have a street price $210 - 250.
But most cards in that class (RX 6650, 6700, 7600 / RTX 3060, 4060 ) generally cost well over $300 at retail.
Why seen? It's more expensive than ever. Now that everything in our lives costs 30-50% more... much less money to spend on entertainment.
I just looked for a 1080 Ti and can't find one for under $1000, what the hell
@@mattc9598 Sounds like scams. The RX 6700 XT should offer quite a bit of performance over 1080 Ti and not cost that much.
The 1080 TI is still a VERY solid card today, especially for around 200 bucks. That just shows how trash the market had been over the past 5 years.
@mattc9598 tons of them on eBay for around 150 bucks... and honestly, in this market, they are still a great buy at that price.... has more vram than my 3080.
Your point is valid. For the past 25 years or so I have done major upgrades to my PC every 2 years or so. And bought several new systems. Now I use a PC which should have been replaced 5 years ago. But I will stick with it despite its flaws, because of the insane prices.
😂 12 year old Acer laptop here
@@scrooge1374 my e- and @ -keys are non-functional. I have to google them and copy-paste the keys when needed, unless I use a standalone keyboard. Also, my a -key gets stuck quite often.
You finally realized you had been duped for years. You drank the coolaid and now are in recovery. How was PC rehab for you?
My first desktop was built with brand new parts and have gradually upgraded it with mostly 2nd hand parts over the years.
The only parts I buy new is storage. I do not know what has been stored on 2nd hand storage. I do not know how much wear or tear there is on 2nd hand storage even when checking SMART. I want them to last for years if possible, so I buy them new.
I built my first gaming PC in Oct 2008 (Q9550 + GTX 260) and then five years later in Feb 2014 I built my current system (4770K + GTX 770 --> 980 Ti --> 2080 Ti).
After ten years, I am going to build a new PC, and it will be the last gaming PC I ever build... unless some kind of AAA PC Gaming Renaissance occurs. This is the first time that I am not excited about building a new system. I despise everything about Windows 10+. HW prices are through the roof. AAA games have become poorly-conceived, bug-ridden "live service" propaganda.
I plan to use the Windows 10 system only for DX12 games, and my Windows 7 system to continue replaying the hundreds of great games from the last forty years. That is, excepting the games that are only available via Steam. I am shocked at the decision made by Valve to not allow games to be played on the OS they were designed and sold for --- but more to the point, the latest OS that actually _runs_ many of these games properly, or at all. I am hoping that some kind of solution will become available.
Always keep up with the new Jayz2Cents vids and lemme say. You are so correct about being in a dark place and finding building and tinkering with PCs to be a passion is so spot on I actually shed a tear or two. We love ya Jay and team! Thank you.
I would not be surprised at all if there were secret price agreements. There seems to be a huge market for affordable motherboards and GPUs.
Of course there's secret price agreements. Can't do that if there's too much competition, but there's really just a few major companies ruling the business. Making a price agreement so you can all benefit and get more profit is only a natural consequence of the situation.
Do some videos on affordable PC builds. Please.
I remember pc format magazine used to publish a shopping list for entry level, mid range and high end. It was super useful to anyone looking to build a PC. Why not do that once a month. I bet folks would like it. Let folks see what each one can do. Cool content that maps out where we are. Maybe quarterly instead of monthly, but you get the idea.
Great video, someone had to do it. Well done Jay!
Quarterly would be good.
There used to be a site that did exactly this but it’s gone.
I think PC part picker is the go to right now…
There needs to be more videos on modern budget PC building. Because oftentimes today the cheapest way is to buy an office workstation and then upgrade the PSU and slap a GPU in it. The days of a la carte budget PCs are sadly over but it's still most of what you find in budget quides.
That is a great suggestion. I'd also be interested in seeing Jay build some budget/midrange PCs to show more people what is possible and affordable. Show that a budget build doesn't have to be a potato.
Very good video! My personal 2 cents would be, a lot of the willing people have blown through their budget for the next few years buying the priced up parts, so it just isn't possible to upgrade now and have better performance. They will just end up waiting
Last computer I built was an 8700k and 1070ti. Just started looking again to build my daughter a rig and wow. Guess I’ll partition mine and let her run it because the prices are insane
Best to stick to AM4 for the deals, much cheaper mobos, you can recycle your DDR4 from your previous build. A 5600 is so cheap for what you get. For the graphics card.. good luck..
This is a wise choice. Especially if it's going to be her first REAL gaming PC. Me personally, I might just have to give up on gaming as a hobby and find something cheaper and more affordable to pass my time with.
@@kingepostle indie games
Indie games.@@kingepostle
@@kingepostleYou might want to take up a craft hobby such as blacksmithing, cabinet-making, or carpentry. That way, if the "shit hits the fan", then you'll have a skill that any survival settlement would find useful. Someone who's skilled at a craft would find a LOT MORE welcome in any settlement than someone who's not skilled in any craft.
I've notice the same in all industries. It seems that companies have universally decided that they only want to service the high end of the market, where there are higher margins. Look at the automobile market for example...
I remember getting my founders 1080ti for 599 on release. The 2080ti being 1299 was a kick to the gut. I feel that for Nvidia that the crypto boom over inflated their profits and Following the Fieldman Doctrine they have to keep their profits growing per quarter/year. So instead of taking the hit of correction they inflated their prices to maintain this gain. Then AMD just followed suit and price fixed the stack.
It was $699 USD before taxes on release. And here in EU it was even more than that, 800 EUR I believe.
1080ti on release cheapest was $900 I was there. 2080ti was $1500 on release you are going only off MSRP prices
Same. I got the 2080TI for 1200$ and it last 4 years after that and now it's crap trying to play the new games.
1080ti to 2080ti was quite useless upgrade for the price. When 2080ti was released 1080ti was still very good gpu. So whole 20-series should have been skipped. I mean 1080ti is rtx3060 level of performance.
9800GTX+ was $229. Jus saying.
The last GPU I bought was an RX 580 almost 6 years ago. I've been priced out of the GPU market, currently running a 2070 a friend gave me haha. This is a great video Jay!
Same with me but I bought an ps5 and I'm happy coming from pc. My next upgrade will be the ps5 Pro
I am on a Ryzen 5 5500 6 core, 32gb ddr4 ram and a now potato GTX1070. I've just accepted I am now a Retro gamer....E-Sports gamer and Indie game. When even the RTX4000 series are having issues in the latest games, PC is dying for me. I don't want pricing to return to the bad old days of the late 90's.
ive bought new
GTX 750 Ti (2015)
GTX 1050 Ti (2016)
GTX 1080 (2017)
RTX 2080 Super (2020)
Ive been priced out i only nabed the super bcause of the stimulas check i knew was coming.
@@FERTUHGfor me problem is all the games I like are mostly only on pc. And mostly old games.
@@Tkozuh if you are playing old games you don't need a new PC, or would suffice with a low end new PC.
Hello JayZ, this was another home run for you. Well thought out and planned commentary that was brilliantly and sincerely presented. I hope the entire computer industry takes heed of your message. Its time for some marketing corrections that will bring back the joy of computing to more people.
We need people like you who have a platform and a voice to make these things known. It's very important
The industry needed this open letter. I breathed a sigh of relief when I could over pay for a 3080 during the crypto boom. We jumped from cypto to AI and even though all my friends game on PC, no one but me has upgraded their system since 2020.
I'm still on a 1070 and have no plans on upgrading yet
@@jirya957 I only upgraded from my 1050 because it died but I tried to keep within a budget and at the time a 1660 was the best for the money I had. It's running everything I play and do very well. No interest in 30 or 40 series or their equivalents.
similar story in my friend group, I'm on 2080 and have no plans to upgrade, my friend just upgraded from 1080 and it was painful ($$$$)
This pricing nonsense has kept my 960 inside my system.
I’ve got a 5800x, a Samsung 980 pro and Adata S40g, I wanna go 1440p for my next monitor, but GOD, are graphics cards not great right now
I remember, back before 2010 having to rebuild my brother's and my PC's after a lightning strike damaged both. New boards, chips, and ram for both cost us a grand total of $600. We literally built two, virtually new, PC's for $300 each. Both were mid level gaming pcs, which would cost @ 1500 now (each)
Yah the 1600AF(formerly ~$79), a b450 board (formerly ~$69-99), 16gb ddr4-3000mhz (~$49-69), rx570 (~$129-199) the basics of that was outside of case and power and storage, $300 mid level gaming pc was great and they still work even now
Rx570 cant Play the newest Games ad a rx580/GTX 1060 strugels with that
@@allxtend4005they are talking about 2010
@@allxtend4005 sir I have an r9 290x (8gb) the 570 can play new games there is such a thing as low 1080p, and it gets decent frames (50-80fps), now you know probably can't play starfield ain't even going to try
@@allxtend4005 Only reason my 580 struggled was that it had minor damage. It still works, but, it isn't in good shape. My current build cost close to 1500, and has a ryzen 5 5600x, RX 6650.
I've had a near 30yr career in IT because of my passion for gaming, I had to learn so much about PCs just to get games to work back in the days where that first 640K of memory was so important lol...
Ah, the days when you had to edit your autoexec.bat and config.sys, so your game would run properly. 👍
@@Noodles.FreeUkraine you know it! Eventually I had a config that loaded everything I needed in the perfect order as to not waste any large blocks with a small TSR. It ended my need to mess with it, & I could run every game I had. Good times 😂
Should have started with 6800 cpus not early intel. They did not have that barrier, 486 66 were barely use able really the P1 is where PCs started to become ok for games.
If someone was to have told you 2 years ago PCs would increase in price by 200% over the next 2 years, would you have believed them bearing in mind the Produccion cost has only increased buy 24% overall.? 2 years ago, my entry level builds in my portfolio were $560. £625 now its $760 £825 The mid-range is still my top seller. at $1000 £1125. but it's just too hard now to get new consumers into the market. 82% of my sales are returning customers wanting to upgrade mostly from entry level to mid-range.
it's as if the industry is trying to push out new consumer entry level altogether. at the same time has destroying the small business owner.
The *only* reason I got an EVGA 3080 Ti is because I saved for *years*.. And it STILL felt like crap to pay $980 for it. I adore the card but.. That cost eclipsed my entire last build and that just can't feel good.
Love the video Jay. I agree 2,000% on everything.
I never had a 80 series card until the 3080 and then they immediately (not literally but feels like it) made a 12Gb version to replace my 10Gb one. I'm not sure I can spend over $800 on a flagship GPU again. I'll probably stick to used again.
@@jonmayer my best card prior was a 1660Ti. Watching the world progress made me realize 12GB isn't gonna be enough in a few years. Wish I sprung the extra $100 and got a 3090 *just* for the 24GB..
Funny how the world, especially tech, always makes ya wish you had more huh..
Yeh makes my 6900xt I got for 500 look pretty good, I've been nvidia all the way until I got that card about a year ago.
Same here. Held off on buying a GPU for 5 years. Last december I caved and spent 800e (tax included) on a Red Devil 6900XT. Great card, but the price made for a very unsatisfying purchase. Guess I'm buying GPUs every 5 to 7 years now.
My old 1080 ti died so had to buy a new card... had to pay £1600 for my 3080ti mid 2021. Now that stung!
Just to correct one thing: Nvidia has done "Founder's Editions" for a long time. They used to be the "bottom shelf" options from every manufacturer, the blower style, one fan things with stickers on top. Like I have old GeForce 9800GTX+ "Founder's Edition" somewhere still (I would remember Leadtek was the "manufacturer") and the thing was that the "manufacturer part" was a sticker on top, you pealed that off and vóla, you had old Nvidia GeForce logo (the double wings) under it. The old "Nvidia blower" was the founder's edition 100% made by Nvidia and just sold to AIB's to add stickers. I would remember GTX 680 still had the "Nvidia blower" and with 780 came the "Founder's Edition" silver shroud Nvidia blower with 980 Nvidia starting to sell the Founder's Edition straight.
I think the worse side is the low end getting basicly to be "waste of sand" quality. Like the RTX 3050 which is pretty much a card that can perform only with the DLSS upscaling on, without it, it's just garbage. RTX 4060 is in the same ballpark, like I know my RTX 3060 12GB isn't the best card around and it lacks in computing side and kind of badly, but at least it can make do with the extra VRAM and not-the-best- but-okay memory bandwidth. It was even odd how fast games went from "8GB of VRAM is fine" to the moment that RTX 3060 is trading blows with RTX 3080 just because more VRAM (not really that much, but in few special cases which is already a BIG thing). And then you get the DLSS3.0 and soon RTX 4060 that basicly performs well only because DLSS3.0.
That is also a bit of a reason I call DLSS3.0 "Nvidia BS" just as much as I called RTX Voice "Nvidia BS" and even before that PhysX "Nvidia BS". With "Nvidia BS" I mean tech that Nvidia is gatekeeping and saying that nothing else can use it because some half-magic proprietary tech that must be used and then later when it turns out it's not that important tech for Nvidia anymore, "surprise", almost everything and the 3 years old moldy potato can run it. I would bet my hat on that if the community pushed hard enough, if game devs (mostly Epic with Unreal 5) found ways around, if hackers made it work and/or AMD and Intel both came with their own versions that worked better, Nvidia would release DLSS3.0 for all RTX cards. And that is just based on the "Nvidia BS" feel I get from it, I don't buy the half-magic "optical flow accelerator is needed" reason, I believe the only reason is the good old money because that is pretty much the only thing that makes RTX4000 cards somewhat special, otherwise they are just RTX3000 cards with more VRAM and perform pretty much in the same ballpark.
Blowers didn't go out because of greed. They went out because of people testing noise(which blower style fans always lose at because of how they work). Seriously, the average "PC enthusiast" doesn't know jack shit about fans. All the fans in your computer are trash(not even kidding. Your fans are trash, but quiet trash). But "noise", because nobody wants to live next to a 10 40x38 30k RPM fan monster, much less 40x80 metal bladed counter rotating finger chopper which draw 2 amps per fan. Nobody wants to use hearing protection just to turn on their rig.
I recently got back into PC gaming. I remember wanting to build a rig during the pandemic. I almost fainted at the parts prices. Especially the GPUs. Insane.
We can partially thank Crypto for that.
@@SalimFromATL Especially the etherium shortage.
I sat on my 1070 until a few months ago. Then I spotted a 7900XT for just a bit lower than reference MSRP and I took that as a sign.
I can only say I'm super happy on AMD!
How's driver support? Really considering AMD but I'm spooked by the stories
@@rihasanatrofolo2472driver support being a problem is an outdated issue
Drivers suck ass but the price point is hard to beat
@rihasanatrofolo2472 had a 6600xt for a while and sold it to a friend and him nor I have had any issues with anything. AMD makes great cards.
Hey, Jay! Got a new rig during this week, 5800X3D, 6900XT, 32GB RAM. I've decided to go with the previous gen due to pricing and value of newer versions, since RT is not important for me, and I've a bunch of "old" games in my Steam. My main gripe is the total price of my rig, +30% cost, but the main reason for this is sanctions and price of circumventing them. Cheers from Russia! Your vids have helped me a lot!
I feel like a good example with brands only promoting their highest end products, at least in my case, would be the 13900k vs everything else they offer. As a video editor, I've been looking online for recommendations on a good bang for the buck CPU when it comes to editing, and it feels like I'm always recommended the 13900k and I'm like "I said good bang for the buck, not cream of the crop" And then doing my own research I narrow it down to the 13700k cause to me it's like 2nd only to the 13900k, draws less power, and doesn't get as hot meaning I don't have to also invest at least another $100 to cool the 13900k all while being $200 less. But because it also feels like the consumer mentality is "go bit or go home" it never feels like I find enough research on what type of cooler I exactly need for a 13700k, it's always "this cooler doesn't work with the 13900k, but is fine for the 13600k" and I'm just like *man*. It's probably just a niche example in my case, and there's more to this that's influencing my buying decision like still using an LGA 1700 motherboard, but this is what immediately came to mind when you said "The consumer is not innocent either. There are good deals out there, you just have to look for them."
No, I don't think it is a niche example.
There are a lot of people that only need a PC for "ordinary stuff" like taxes, browsing the web, etc. And maybe occasionally playing a game. Or occasionally video and photo editing.
In the past there would be a mid range option for this stuff. Today people would probably right away buy a notebook.
considered buying Apple *
PS
Maybe the ordinary, not-max-power user will be satisfied with on board gfx anyways.
Hey Jay, I believe this should be put out not just by you. If you really want the companies to change then all the tech youtubers need to release such videos simultaneously so it's loud and clear.
God I can't tell you how much I needed to hear that!!! I thought I was the only one who felt this way and I needed this video more than you can ever imagine. Thanks Jay!!!
Built my computer about 7 years ago. Works perfectly fine for everything that's been coming out at 1080p, so I will continue to wait for prices to come down before upgrading. Like you said, prices are inflated when they don't need to be; It's extremely off-putting.
Same. Still rockin' an OG 1700 w/ an RX 570 8GB myself.
What big money did to mainstream movies and mainstream music, turning it into samey franchise fare taking few chances, they've finally also achieved with gaming.
So i'll stick w/ what I have until something comes along that makes me go, "I HAVE to upgrade/build so I can play that!"
Same here, just got a PS5 now. Also got a Laptop so I can work from everywhere.
Companies have lost their minds. It used to be value for a great product now it's mostly profit as much as possible. Maybe not for gpus but in general
Sure 10-20% increase in materials but that doesn't mean 50-100% price increase
That's what happens when you don't enforce taxes rich companies. They get greedier than they already are and try to make ALL THE MONEY rather than some of the money
@@justin9202 then maybe it need change ?
@@VITAS874 yes democrats are trying to make supply chains easier. (Hence passing acts like the chips act) but republicans constantly try to block said supply chain policies (again the chips act as an example)
I feel you! Even if I’m able to afford super expensive PC parts, I’m getting tired of feeling that companies are profiting from us. Plus the fact that the PC version of games is often worst nowadays than the console version… i’m using more and more my 500$ PS5 than my 5k PC…
I mean, companies do need to profit, without it, they go bankrupt quite fast, but, the level of profit nvidia is showing is bonkers, they can profit less and still be the industry leader in both datacenter and gaming chips, but, they also can increase price and profit more because people will still buy, so, why not?
I swear, I'm tired of playing a game one day just fine, coming home from work the next day and finding that an update has bricked my game or sometimes even the whole damn PC, then spending the whole freaking evening fixing it. It always seems to take the exact amount of time I had free to play the game.
5k+ PC...you and the people who feel the need to upgrade every year are the main reason we have these prices now.
5k PC... wow now that is a ridiculus sum to spend on a PC, did you just went with all the most expensive components? xD
@podcasting68 and that is amazing! People in this comments are obsessed with 4k and Ultra settings.
Steam surveys show over and over that the vast majority still plays at 1080p. Why would that be? Must be a real mistery :D
If they keep increasing prices, ill just stop buying new stuff, in fact i might even just stop buying stuff. I recently upgraded, I'm good for another 15 years. I would have upgraded much sooner, like after 2 years... but nope. With the current prices, no way.
You made such a great point. I have been priced out. In Australia you can almost double the prices you are talking about. The 40 series here is upwards of $3000. I used to upgrade with each new generation but I have stuck with a 6 year old system and will probably do future gaming on consoles.
I agree, but it sure sucks.
And the TAX make it higer, same here in norway just got Xbox x PS5 switch, and waiting for quest 3. And way under a good PC. Cant see why i need a Good gaming PC now...
No I do not wait in line for the chance to buy something. I wait. I Agree the industry is screwing around, lootboxes, bad launches, and extra content for games is now skins not levels.
But to fight this we have to use, or not use, our wallets. I want a better card than the 3070 but not for hundreds of extra bucks to get 20 frames, IF, IF im lucky.
Jay, it would be nice to see when the motherboard manufacturers want to send you their top tier boards take them and do a head to head comparison with their lowest tier board and show the little benefit you get by spending 200% more.
this will just make them charge more for the lower end board if that's what's getting recommendations. there is no solution to this except lower-priced better competition.
Last week suppliers told us to expect a 40% increase in SSD costing and 100% in ram...self destruction for sure.
Thank you Jay! Truth! As a kid (currently 40 grew up/live in bay area) I messed around with pcs/gaming loved it, yet these 2 industries are in such a sad state imo from when I was a kid to now....and I vote with my wallet, so my money goes to other/new hobbies that respect my time/money.
As a first-time PC builder, a lot of what you covered played into my budget for overhauling from nearly 10-year old kit.
With it capped at $1500, I figured the most expensive thing I'd have to buy was the GPU, so my motherboard was under $200 (Yes it's an ASRock, which in hindsight wasn't likely the best option, but it honestly hasn't been terrible either.)
My Ryzen 7 7700 X was about $350 and I got lucky to find an unused 3060ti on Amazon for just over $450.
I can't tell you how many PC mongers gave me grief over not shelling out the money I didn't have for a 4000-series card when they saw my build, and I don't care. I can play pretty much anything on this setup with no lag or serious issues aside from one potentially faulty DDR5 RAM stick, but that's a MUCH cheaper fix than I could be looking at.
For a lot of us with tight budgets, the industry is so willfully ignorant because of its need for profit that it's bleeding itself dry.
honestly, given the AM5 cpu voltage issues (worst on asus boards) and how they handled that, I trust ASrock more than Asus. I have several of their boards and they work well.
You did the right thing, I'm always one or two gens behind with GPUs, unless you are an FPS queen it just doesn't matter when playing games to have the newest hotness. You can still run nearly all games at max setting without any issues with playability.
@@hvymetal86 It's crazy how Asus has fallen! I've been building gaming rigs since the early '90s and Asus was always the best, even in 2011 when I built my last one (the one I typing on right now!) I still have zero problems after over a decade of gaming on this Sabertooth MB and a room heater AMD FX-9590 (started with a FX-8150) Black processor (upgraded GPUs and SSDs over the years of course). I'm hearing too many stories about how Asus it poop now, definitely looking elsewhere for my next build when the 50 series GPUs come out and I can get a 40 series for cheap. I'm just now getting to the point where I can't run games with max settings.
@@anydaynow01 I'm playing Cyberpunk right now and have no need to overclock anything with my setup as it is. Considering my prior GPU was a 660, the 3060 seems more than capable of shouldering the load for what I do both with gaming and content creation.
@@hvymetal86 I know Jay has leaned more toward MSI boards in his videos than ASRock, so when I realized that I might have gone the wrong way with that purchase, I was a bit concerned.
But aside from some random BSODs, it's been pretty stable as I've updated the BIOS along with the drivers. Like I said, I may have a faulty RAM stick, but those are easily replaceable and far cheaper. Just have to get some that aren't Corsairs apparently. 😁
As usual, a pinpoint video. I recently got into retrogaming as I'm completely burnt out of the hobby of building PCs and gaming, and playing older gems like Yoshi's Island really shines a light on how screwed we are as enjoyers of video games. The passion and the ingenuity that moved the industry decades ago has been completely STOMPED.
And last week I found myself looking at 360 prices and it really saddened me, not because of a dumb console war, but because I realized that the thing that inspired my hobbies and my carreer is now completely rotten, and could be considered dead.
And it's not even the prices alone.
You could spend 2000 dollars on a PC, but the games that release will run like dogshit, and there is no accountability on the devoloper's end, and consoomers will just follow the trend and buy the new shit that has been gargled up.
I'm just thankful indie games are still keeping the ingenuity that drew me to the hobby alive. Playing through non-mainstream singleplayer games of years past has brought me the most joy I've had gaming in a year that otherwise would have been pretty shitty because of my reduced freetime and continued downturn in the rest of the industry.
Day 1 games always run like shit, If you're still buying and attempting to playing games on the day they release. You get what you deserve at this point.
RTX 4090 right now has the "low" price point of 2500 bucks in my country. Not to mention, there used to be a lot of cards, now suddenly they barely sell only 1 model. Same for the nearby countries. 4090 is very hard to find again. Price is also increasing on these few cards too.
Now think how much a 4080 cost. Cus it ain't 1000 or even 1300.
Thanks for making this video Jay, I was SUPER into building PCs pre Covid but now I just feel like the value is gone. There is NO way you can build a console killer tower at a console price anymore and that used to be the case every other generation. and it's sad. I'm hoping the availability of Graphics cards and the lack of RT adoption makes Nvidia in particular double take and realise they are letting gamers down.
You are right....they make great products, at bad prices. knock 20% off the whole Graphics card stack and 50% off the MOBO fiasco everything is all great again
You never could, unless you had many used parts. At 500& you don’t have a system that can play games at 1440p 60 fps. That’s just impossible. Let alone 4K @ 60 fps. Consoles can’t do that of course.
Exact same thing happened to me it’s hard to justify buying parts at these prices. I just ended up getting a console and haven’t paid any attention to new releases
The consoles had a new generation end of 2020, so the PS5 has roughly Zen2 8c, RX 6700, 16GB RAM plus ASICs for decompression and other gfx functions; all mass produced and designed to sell games from their own stores.
People swallowed Nvidia's RTX prices and ignored the same obvious miserly amount of VRAM, guess what Nvidia see that as an opportunity to sell upgrades.
@@WhiteG60 well that was heavily down to the long crypto bubble, I did a build for someone this year and the only bad buy was the GPU. I remember crappy mobos of the decades past and the quality and large connectivity provided by a decent B550 mobo was well worth the price. I fully expect B650 to become better value too, my own PC build has X570 on offer as B550 of the time was higher priced. People have short memories and ignore many factors, including higher quality.
Unfortunately the GPU market in my region isn't offering the reductions the US sees. The launch day 7800xt offerings was the first time I saw anything tempting.
Hey Jayz! I have to say that this is one of the best videos that you have ever done. I know what an uphill battle it is to try to convince the modern community not just accept what they are shown about anything in this world today, but to do a little work with what is available to drive these companies, to at least accept the consumers demands. Do a video occasionally to let us know options. They really are hard to find. I have been building my families computers since the pentium came on the market. OG here. Good luck to you sir.
One word: Consumers. Imagine what manufacturers/devs would say if no one bought their products for 1-2 years. It will greatly make them reconsider their decisions.
People will call socialism/communism idealistic and then expect shit like this to happen to fix capitalism. 😂😂😂 It's almost like having 0 separation between ridiculously powerful entities who's sole purpose is to generate money with no expense (like people's livelihood) being too great, and the people deciding what you pay and get paid for is a f*cking awful idea 😱🤯. Like literally what incentive do they have to do anything right? What would happen if both AMD and Nvidia decided to charge double for all their gpus and refused to lower them? We'd run out of 2nd hand stuff very quickly and yes seeing AMD provides the soc in the consoles and Microsoft and Sony are customers of them they'd go up too. What'd we do then? It is absolutely infantile to expect any other outcome.
it is the issue. the pride of building a PC even 15 years ago wasn't "having all the latest bells and whistles." it was "squeezing the most out of very little." that's why the price went up. consumers forgot the point of building your own PC.
I’m pretty sure if no one buys there stuff they will just make significantly worse spec and quality products, sell them for less but still keep there high margins.
@@DDD-xx4mg they probably close up. Or start sell drinks 😂
Exactly... People just need to stop buying it.
Man what a wild time to stumble upon this channel. I really dig the “REAL TALK”
You are 100 % on point. I can't even buy a graphics card anymore. I got a 3080 for €750 when they released, my wife still has a Vega 56. I would love to replace the Vega 56, but It's just far too expensive to buy anything for a small upgrade, but TBH motherboard prices keep me from buying a new PC at all.
I got a 3080 a few months ago. I paid 800€ for it. I wholly agree on the point though. Prices are insane and they dont go down anymore.
@@thehellscourge My 1080ti died in March, and I held my nose and bought a 4080. While spending that kind of money on a single component disgusted me, the prices haven't moved in 6 months, I've suffered no depreciation at least.
@@rebdomine1 Good god, yeah. I was pondering a 40XX too but those prices... its just, jesus fucking christ. Even the 3080 was IMHO way too overpriced. I had a 1070 before, that thing cost like 400 bucks back in the day and I felt that was a fair price.
Where did you get the 3080 at that price? Mine was €1400, is it because it was on release? I'm from Portugal by the way.
@@P3d3r0s0damn, where I live you can get a used 3080 for around 400 usd
Hearing Jay talk about how good the 1070 was for its time makes me think I choose the right GPU for my first build in 2016 and got a 1070 for $350. Had it for over 5 years and was able to keep up at 2K resolution with quite a few games.
I still have my 1070 I bought used for $125 3 yrs ago (right before the pandemic). It was too good to me to re-sell 🥺
A new 4060 is like $400; that’s reasonable for its performance
Same, my first system was a 1070. Incredible gpu that lasted.
Just to clarify, 2k is 1080p.
@@mitsuhh2K is 1440p. My monitor is a 32" 2560x1440
You nailed it Jay. The steep price trends and lack of good product options at more budget friendly prices are killing my interest in PC tech, and gaming. I'm sick and tired of the price hikes, poor availability, and the lack of decent options. Back in the day, the HD 7900 series and GTX-700 series had more affordable versions under their flagship cards. So did the GTX 900 series and R7 and R9 offerings. Thats about the time I got into all this "PC master race" stuff and it was all a very satisfying for me at the time. As you said, "it was the golden age". But a lot of people didn't get to live through that and experience those days. What PC enthusiasts are faced with now is beyond reason and there is no available option. Many folks just pay what ever the price is and deal with it. For me, I have a basis of comparison that goes back to those good ol days.
I already paid for the Z790 and 13700K, all that I have to do now is take the RTX 4090 out of the box and install it. But the receipt says I can return it for a full refund. I'm having a moment of clarity. Probably gonna send the GPU back and sell the rest on ebay.
I see no joy in owning all this after paying an arm and a leg.
Even if I could afford a 4090 I really dont think I could bring myself to buy one, so I get it. Especially when that could just get me a whole new pc on the latest platform and a pretty ok amd gpu and some left over for a new overpriced game XD
It's killing games too. If the market shrinks and people pass up or go second hand market because new is more expensive, then games have to run on older cards to sell.
You won't get back what you paid for it, might as well just keep it and use it. Already bought it. Better to have what you paid for, then to sell it and maybe get half to get something worse, y'know?
Go get another job. The problem is the cost of everything including cars, rent, food, etc have skyrocketed! My old employer did not believe in raises above 3% so I was able to afford less and less. To add insult to injury they added back to the office for collaboration and ended work at home.
I quit and got a job that pays 30% more. Now I was about to upgrade my PC lol. Wage shop to get around the inflation
@@timothygibney159 Right on. I hear that
Funny little data point here:
I was pretty into pc building... until I discovered Framework (and realized that I don't actually care about having top performance and appreciate portability lol)
Decent performance from a company that prioritizes longevity and sustainability.... a lot of people would appreciate the option if they knew it existed :)
Definitely spot on and agree 100% on all of what was said here. The market is insanely high (especially GPU's) and needs to drop to reasonable prices already.
TBH, if Amazon didn't have a monthly payment option for me at the time I got the EVGA 3080-Ti, I wouldn't have even tried to get it. I most likely would have gotten a 3060 or something around that price range. I may not be upgrading for a long while, or just go back to consoles for gaming if it stays like this.
Damn, Jay!
Hit that on the nose.
I have moved myself out of the modern gaming space totally.
I am 100% retro gaming now.
About a year ago, I built myself a computer with some cheap used parts to try to get back into modern gaming.
500$ didn't get me within 3 years of present.
I still couldn't game competently.
After much tuning and testing, I made it to 2021 spec.
Then my used processor burned up.
I am completely finished with gaming in the modern era.
The games suck and microtransactions abound. Plus, try to buy a PC that will play today's games for less than a grand. You can't.
I'm done.
I bought a 200$ laptop with a low power little baby of an Intel (5090 I think) and it plays games from 10 and 15 years ago so well that it is shocking.
So I play old console games (GC and PS2) and old PC games from the dos era until about 9 years ago.
And that works for me.
When a good game finally comes out, I will see if a PC that can play it is less than 600$. If those 2 conditions are ever met again, count me in. I will play.
But until then, call me retro man.
There are literally thousands of video games that I haven't played and there are hundreds that I have.
So my library is functionally infinite.
I have more games on my crappy laptop right now than I will ever be able to play in my whole lifetime.
So screw the industry.
Thanks for reading my rant. 😁
Computer things, it is a passion. I’m one of those people, Jay, I went through quite a violent breakup that left me not wanting to live anymore. I dove head-first into computer hardware to keep myself occupied and to stop planning “the end,”watching your videos along others actually, and I’m still here years later. This stuff is therapeutic, or it used to be when things were affordable. Ngreedia really needs to divorce their AI stuff from graphics cards… but as Jay also said, the consumers with deep pockets enabled them. They saw that people can and WILL buy the expensive cards… What a predicament we have
Ngreedia... I'm taking that term for use in posts 😂😂😂
Thing is a passion will, for most people, garner only a segment of the spare cash. I can easily afford a top of the line PC each year. I won't. I can touch grass for free, I can visit historical landmarks for less than a new PC each year, let alone a top of the line one, etc. But I refuse to pay that much MERELY FOR A PASSION. By not selling lower end cards, by pricing their stuff higher, the market WILL SHRINK. Fair enough, but that means less CPUs are bought, less games that don't run acceptably on older and lower speed cards. Some will get a console, but it WILL be less, because some will not find games they like playing on a console with a controller, others will touch grass instead.
Turn to Christ, brother. PC’s will steer you wrong.
@@ChrisVirgilioboth can steer u wrong.
@@ChrisVirgiliobe glad his computer isn't smothered in hentai images
Yeah I was so excited to upgrade my computer over black friday, but I ended up deciding to just keep going with the one I've been using for the past 6 years. I've built a few PCs in my life, always with a budget of around 900$, not counting accesories like monitor and keyboard. This was the first time I realized I wouldn't really get a significant upgrade out of it.
I'm not familiar with your channel but given how quality this video is and how important this topic is, I'm subscribing.
I was an old school PC gamer. I still remember installing my first video card when those were new. I used to build PCs. I tried to transition to a laptop for work reasons. I didn't like it so a few years later when it came time to replace it, I decided to build a desktop. I was in for a rude awakening at how drastically the market had changed. I feel like I paid an arm and a leg and I'm using mid tier components. I don't know if I'm going to be up for that a second time. This will kill PC gaming. There's only so much money we have.
Killed it for me already, personally.
The Walton family's kids I guess will buy all of them and scalp xD
3 times, 3 card generations, I tried to upgrade from a 1060. The 20 series was way overpriced and too small of a performance bump for rasterization alone, and that's all that mattered then, since ray tracing wasn't a thing in games yet. The 30 series looked good, then pandemic shortage and scalping hit. The 40 series was scalping from Nvidia itself. I considered a 4070, and might still get a system with one at some point, but the funny thing is that I got used to saying no to bad deals. I want a new PC, but I don't need one yet. I want to play Starfield, but I have many other games to play that don't need newer hardware. So both the PC-hardware and games industries don't get my money just yet. I'm just one guy, but I guess I'm not alone. Screw this noise. Wake me up when pricing sanity returns.
honestly, i just picked up a used 3070 for a little under 300. it's a gamble, but deals are out there if you scour. not syaing your wrong. just letting someone know where they might get some help.
Get a job. Imagine thinking you have the luxury to be playing games when you can't afford a 4070.
I recently needed to do some upgrades. I needed 4 new PCs. I considered component upgrades vs buying complete systems. It turned out I could get the complete systems from Lenovo with 12th gen i7s and RTX 3060 cards for $1000 each. I could have built better, but it would have cost a lot more. I 'settled' for these because the cost/benefit ratio was more promising than patting myself on the back for doing it myself at a premium. Yeah, they are a year old, and yeah they are 3060s vs 4k series cards, but they perform as expected and I can take the money that I ddin't waste on premium and used it productively. My cost offset in comparison was more than $2000 total even after upgrading each system to 32GB RAM and adding additional 2 TB SSDs. I prefer to use my money wisely and productively rather than waste it on lights, unnecessary features, and hype.
Well i7 rarely makes sense for gaming. 3060 is utter garbage for 1000$ system, even worse for 1100-1200 after the upgrades.
Back in 2013, when I was 18, I dropped €900 on this prebuilt ACER rig. It had an Intel Core i5 3350P, 8 gigs of RAM, and a GTX 660. My storage was a small SSD for the OS and a beastly 1TB HDD.
Fast forward to 2019, I went full DIY and spent €1,140 on a custom build. It was an AMD Ryzen 2700, a basic ASUS mobo, 16 gigs of RAM, and an AMD Radeon RX 5700XT. I carried over my trusty 3TB HDD and slapped in a small SSD for the OS.
In 2022 was the year I decided to spoil myself. I dropped a hefty €2,872 on an enthusiast build with an AMD Ryzen 7 7700X, 32 gigs of RAM, and a 1TB Gen4 NVMe SSD for the OS. I recycled some storage from my old rigs and threw in an AMD Radeon RX 7900XT for the cherry on top.
Now, looking back, I gotta admit, I kinda regret spending that much in 2022. PC parts got cheaper afterward, and I probably should've waited. But hey, we live and learn, right?
It's pretty rare for youtubers to care about consumers, protect influencers who stick up for us at all costs haha
That's why I unsubscribed from Jay months ago, I'm watching this because it's recommended.
He's just saying things I've been saying for years.
@@IIARROWS Yeah, he's always been Jay2Shills. He only does it when he's starving for them Views.
I think there’s also a problem with distrust when it comes to the secondhand market. If there were some way to guarantee that you aren’t buying some burned out mining card, or something that was “refurbished” for a serious issue, I think people would definitely go for that instead. I know there are things like buyer protection in place, but some of the secondhand prices with buyer protection can get pretty crazy too. I think it’s the same for sellers too, because I wouldn’t blame someone for not trusting me when I’m just wanting to offload some extra cost and pass off my old GPU, but that just tends to steer people toward more popular resellers. It’s a tough market :/
But people should though, ebay money back is amazing for the buyer. Not to mention mining cards have been shown to be a-okay time and time again.
A mining card saw less heating than an avg gaming card with a tiny overclock.
Mining card, actually got UNDER volted and core clocks UNDER clock, its the mem clock that got optimized to the lowest viable voltage to lower energy cost per hash rate.
I still daily drive my GTX 1060 in the living room and it used to daily mine with a hard locked fan at 50% with a persistent temp of 55c
This is why I always make sure to properly look at the seller of a product. Often those who sell burned out stuff will usually have them come back to haunt them.
I only buy from maybe 3 sellers to specialize in refurbished for multiple years and they always bring the quality I want.
Thinking mining cards are "burned out" is the biggest gimmick why prices are still high. During the gpu crisis I was happily gaming during the day and mining at night to recoup those costs. My gtx1060 that I used is still going strong with the highest oc I could find from NEW and that's while it paid for both my electric bill and the new price of the card so it wasn't mined a little either
@@Guardian_Arias I agree with this, I remember buying a "used" mining card rx 6600 and when It arrived, it looked nearly brand new, still perfectly fine today (using the pc with it now lol)
I miss the “Golden Years” of pc gaming/building. Late 90’s to mid 2000. You had options and prices where (memory excluded) reasonable. You paid for what you wanted/needed and build quality of the components was in general a lot better. No RGB stuff (except if you wanted too) and real innovation was going on. If you wanted to spend 30 dollar on a sound card, it was fine. If you wanted a Soundblaster AWE32, you could spend hundreds. But there were options.
I remember the PC FOrmat campaign against price gouging on games prices here in the UK... we managed to get them slashed from a typical £50 or so (X-Wing, for example) down to around half that. Perhaps we need to consider trying to do the same with hardware?
Those were the golden years of LIFE itself, mate.
You just explained the whole greedflation going on everywhere. Great video, sad news is it's not just computers, but everything from cars to food, to gas, to homes.
This is why you are my favorite youtuber ( NOT influencer 😅)
Unfortunately I fear this is not going to change how the industry, Nvidia in particular, or ASUS for that matter, operates... As long as there are idiots to buy stuff at these rediculous prices, the companies will keep charging them. Remember that something is only worth as much as someone is willing to pay for it. I, too, admittedly, am such an idiot.
And don't get me started about the condition games are being launched in these days.... It really is a sad time when you have the most top-tiered gaming hardware available on the rediculously overpriced market, and you can't even decently run a newly released title. It's just embarrasing.😢
I'd like to see a graphic with pricing vs performance 🤔. My 2 cents on the matter; Everybody is started using the Apple tactics. Create a halo product which kind of excuses the insane prices by using FOMO and exclusivity to groom and create a new reference price point. If you release a 2000$ product as the benchmark dream product all of a sudden paying 700$ to feel you are still relevant ( for what ever that is) seems viable option. This probably also explains why CPU's aren't that effected, they don't have the the appeal a Graphics card has, marketing wise. This also alienates consumers, they feel if they can't buy the halo product they better give up. They say 'fuck it I'm out' in stead of saying "fuck it I.ll just buy an affordable PC". The marketing is just so focused on "Only the best is good enough".
CPus still have some competition. On gpu-side they just stopped and are pretty much price-fixing performance.
CPUs dont impact performance at 4K in the way GPUs do. I remember seeing benchmark vid of a 2080Ti with a 3600 ryzen, and the 3600 onky got 5% less FPS.
Agree on the mobo point...when i went from FX to am4 i spent $345 AU on a crosshair board. Since it died a few weeks back im upgrading to am5. A BASIC ENTRY LEVEL GIGABYTE BOARD is $299 AU like wtf
"Companies are not your friends. They didn't get here through charity."