I am forced to live with my narcissist parent ( for now) and learning the truth about that parent feels like I'm living with a serial killer that I have to pretend is totally normal. Little by little, job by job, friend by friend ; family members, hope and joy are serial "killed " by the narcissist.
I don´t think there is no one at the Internet that explains those subjects so well as you do! Thank you very much. You are a gift of God to us. Best wishes!
The narcissist's goal is to turn you into them and it works while you're in that dynamic. You have to pick up their traits to survive inside the relationship.
Yes the approach and avoid thing but also the frozen rabbit. Sometimes when I’m around narcissists I freeze like I’m five years old again. I can’t think or feel any emotions.
My first marriage lasted 7 months...I had the same thing...caught myself freezing like a scared bunny. Once was enough. I carry now...it's been 40 years since all that but the reality is, a woman doesn't stand a chance any other way.
same here, sometimes if a male raises their voice even slightly i start shaking internally, totally forgett what i wanted to say or do and freeze....it also takes me days to feel allright again. this does not happen often, as i have years of therapy under my belt and usually am not triggered so easily, but if it happens when i allready feel bad physically or tired and it happens out of nowhere this can lead to beforesaid reaction. With females its the same result, if they display behaviours such as being hectic or interrupt. (this is bc of my covert, but highly malignant narc mom, who is part of re-lie gious cult to boot). she used to thrive on making me nervous, giving me stress, destabilise me, not replying at all to what i told her, espec. if i was happy, etc. etc.+fed on my emotional pain in many ways, this started when i was 3 years old..... it became worse with her age, where weird "accidents" started to happen where i ended up hurt or she would hurt my ears by slamming the trunk of the car extra hard, or hit the brakes when it was not necessary, one time she allmost ran me over, etc., etc., this was all before i heavilly minimized contact with her, and i no longer visit or stay over night, she used to keep me awake using sleep deprivation, or would not allow me to take a shower when i wanted, after a whole day of garden work in the sun, knowing very well, how much i needed both, especially for my chronic condition. this was her way of making me uncomfortable or controlling even my most intimate needs....bc she would offer to heat the water for the bathtub but this would take forever, causing sleep deprivation again, since she had to bathe too+it was a ordeal, which i did not want so i would only wash myself at the sink with a tiny rinse of icecold water, which was not same of course, energetically......but the shower was working and fast, so it would of been the ideal solution, but she would lie and say that it could brake, bc of the way the electricity was at the old house, however this was NOT TRUE, the Electrician clearly had said, the Problem we once had, had nothing to do with the shower, but was a old socket in the Bedroom, which he had repaired. But she loved making my Life difficult, with her evershifting goalposts, etc. I did have my own Place since Years at that Time+nothing felt better then finally coming Home+showering, washing all that toxic Energy off. One good Thing came from this, i realised how greatfull i am for what i have+seeing her clearly for who she is+ i no longer allow ANY such Behaviour in my Life though. Nowaday i am happy+thriving. ;) Fullfilling all my emotional and physical Needs sufficiently+in a healthy Way.
It takes time to heal from narcissist abuse because they don’t only break your heart, but spirit also. 💙RUclipsr That Helps People Overcome Toxic Relationships
yes. they are very similar. i am a tarot reader. the interesting thing is when i do toxic relationship readings, it's hard to tell the difference between the narc vs the victim, the abuse vs reactive abuse, etc. they have similar actions with different motives and reasons. ❤️
Thanks Michele, this was easy to follow and understand. It made a great deal of sense to me where countless books only caused more confusion in my frazzled brain. I wasn't recognised as a child, and felt it was my job to make Mum and Dad happy. It was the only validation I got so I felt good when I was thanked for my efforts. Even a small acknowledgment was like gold to me. I was the knight in shining armour to my covert narcissist as I saved her from her very dysfunctional family. She held the same morals and values as me, and I thought how lucky we both were to find each other. As time passed and I formed a deep emotional bond, slowly but surely my wishes became less and less relevant until I felt guilty to expect any love. While being told I was selfish and unreasonable. I never stood up for myself but when I saw my children being treated with the same utter contempt, while being told they were" happy" and " There's something wrong with you". I lost my temper and shouted like crazy. And yes, she did drive me crazy. I think then she realized the game was up and the mask slipped off completely. I could never leave my kids, especially with their mother so 5yrs of hell went by before she fled with the kid. Playing the victim ( DARVO) to a troop of flying monkey. So convincing I could almost believe her myself, if it weren't for her immediately promoting her best friends husband to primary supply. That didn't last six months, but it sure as hell kicked the crap out of both me and the kids. Loving someone unconditionally and hating them simultaneously is confusing to say the least, and deeply traumatic for both me and the kids. I've struggled for twenty-two years now, and am finally coming to terms with what happened. Your videos and others have helped me enormously. In a small community I am still the villain and she's the abused for many people What I named the "Fake Public Persona" is as strong and convincing as ever, and our children have grown up afraid to challenge their mother in any way, for fear of being denied the conditional affection she metres out judged on performance. I've read they steal your identity, and leave you theirs. I think it's true. To try and explain what happened to anyone who knows her is pointless, and I'd be thought as a nasty ex husband. Your videos have really helped me see I'm not mad or bad. I don't think my wife is evil, only very sick. To this day she still believes she has done nothing wrong, and I am responsible for everything. Two years ago she hoovered me for the last time. I confronted her with the knowledge I'd gained, she was terrified and promptly "Stonewalled" me. These days she has had to confine her abuse to triangulation through the kids. It has been a godsend. Knowledge truly is power!. Sorry for the long rant and thanks a million for your help. You literally saved my life.
Great topic. As a victim of narc abuse, I question my attitude. With the resentment I hold, I have became more closed in or a little snappy with ppl. I have gained so much more knowledge and with some of my verbage/actions, makes me seem toxic. That’s the hard part when it comes to explaining how I feel or I can tell others in a rage “I don’t want to see the ex or hear their voice!” And if I meet with the ex ( because We co parent ) it’s like I know how to put on the mask now
Both my parents were Narcissistic, They Divorced when I was 5 my mother only criticized me, no hugs kisses,, or love never said I love you, she only let me know I wasn't good enough like her she was God's gift, everyone loved her, but was mother dearest at home. My father was the same but 6'2 and abusive. I wasn't a person I was a extension of him, never good enough. Ever since I remember I was a loving giver, I gave kids in elementary things of mine just to make them happy, I still do and I'm 49, I'm a empath, giver that's just the way it is, I tried to change but can't. I quit talking to my parents about 8 years ago, the haven't once called me or tried for me. Thanks for the video. I'm still working on it. To not choose narcissist to be in a relationship with.. that's another story.
I don't need validation I just need them to leave me the hell alone and get the hell out of my life. I was striving to move forward throughout my life many times until I find them peaking in my life and infiltrating my life. Go no contact and they just can't understand. On that note I'm not a narcissist and found those that are that have been in my life are on another level of masterful manipulation and exploitation. They created it.
Narcs are obsessed with loading us down with contradictions & falsehoods & emotional & psychological damages. This has caused me decades of circle thoughts ruminating over what they have implanted in my mind. This is the way they remote control . I find it helpful to search out problems in my life that I can correct or fix. This helps me fix things because I am glad it is something I can control. It is helping me to get things transformed from bad energy to positive energy... because I get things fixed & I do it by not ruminating on the narc damage. It gives me something better to think about.
I Might Be A Covert Narc By That Descrition Because It Has Taken Me So Long And Has Been Excruciatingly Difficult. To Just Accept/Say This Is What I Think, This Is What I Feel, This Is What I Am. I Haven't Yet Reached As Far As, And This Is What I Would Like To Do.
This really makes sense to me. especially the validation part. For both sides. I have a horribly narcissistic husband that i have been dealing with for years and it has been emotionally draining for me. I think the part of needing validation as a victim of narcissist abuse is something I have struggled with even though i can still validate myself internally on the days i feel strong but it always goes back to being twisted that it’s my issue ( with a smirk on his face) I literally have to continually talk to myself and tell myself this is part of HIS cycle not mine. It’s scary what a narcissist believes about themselves and what they attempt to put on a spouse or children and feel no remorse. I finally got vocal with him 15 years ago in and out of marriage counseling with the same results … nothing changed. The gaslighting and the love bombing and then the “ flip” comes where i’m and intrusion to him and not respecting him and all of the other things that come. He knows exactly what to say and do to trigger my reaction to him. Sometimes it’s hard to think of someone in my mind being this calculated and evil and why would someone actually treat people this way. I am finding my feet and my own personal validation just by telling myself I am worthy of something better. I am so thankful my boys see this in him and vow to never be like him or treat a woman, wife, girlfriend like he does. For me even understanding all of this you have said in the video which is totally accurate when it’s an abuse issue I think we have to make it our daily walk to move forward and not get stuck in a pattern which i’m guilty of doing all the time. “ Why does he tell me things and never follows through? “why doesn’t he want. good and healthy marriage” “ Why is it constant turmoil?” and then I stop myself and say “ why do I keep putting up with it?” Because when you back a narcissist up to either get help and fix the issues or it’s over , then the real authentic narcissist emerges and it’s a whole different level of abuse. As a victim of narcissist abuse I think we have to know our truth and hold on to it and understand who we are dealing with.
Keep doing these videos. So helpful! I think my siblings have got worse over time. When they succeed, they become worse and very puffed up. They mock those who challenge their actions and tell you youre the problem. My covert narc mother does exactly the whole "nothing is wrong with me, nothing touches me, nothing cant be got over and remaining positive about!" Adding, your emotion are too strong for you. Like, you cant handle your emotions, you overwhelm yourself, get on with your life. When your whole family doesnt acknowledge that the other narc SIL has done something that breaks all your trust, all your work on building self validation and self trust and self reliance flies out the window. Because the abuse leaves no physical wounds, no one believes you, even significant others on why you are NEVER contacting these self grandiosing creeps again, its lonely AF. Seeing that i have been seeing life as my folks, and believing the same crap, is devastating when you realise you have to rewire yourself, and try to lose that way of thinking. Its wrecked relationships of all kinds. My marriage is better, because i dont expect what my mother does from my father, from my spouse. And i realise he actually has feelings. This has been a recent revelation. As stupid as it sounds, because he also had narc upbringing, he just came across as my mother. But i think reactive abuse is going to get a reaction where they wont behave nicely either. Moving forward in some areas, and drowning in others.
Wow! I feel so seen! The second commonality of the False Self holding me back from declaring and going for my desires totally explains so much! It feels like I have been beating against the same wall for so long. I search and learn and dig, but always end up in the same place. It makes so much sense now! Thank you!
dont study too much on narcissism before you get out it may aggrevate the complexities of the abuse instead of clearing it up. Stick to the diagnostic criteria and escape strategies is my advice. I will explain some strategies here if you wish.Godspeed
This has been my ah ha moment. 😭 I am so thankful to you. I now realize that I didn’t really exist, almost, in my head. I was only pleased when other people smiled. I thought I was doing a good and selfless thing but I have to care about myself too and that always was painful to do. Now I am learning to be in the picture as well.
I think the victim of a narcissist wants affirmation like someone who has been stabbed and has lost a lot of blood wants a blood transfusion. The narcissist is also bleeding out, but their approach is to take the blood of others (then bleed it out because they don't tend the wound). However the victim of the narcissist typically thinks you have to go by blood transfusion - they don't realise they can start wrapping their own wound and generating their own new blood supply. When they do realise and try to do so IMO they start to grow stronger and stronger at doing so. In some ways though I think the victim of a narcissist has it sort of easier because in trying to please everyone, even if that is a bit manipulative, it isn't really all that bad and so the victim doesn't have to face any history of having done hundreds of horrible things (while pretending they are great). The narcissist, to heal, does face this history. That's probably part of why they typically just don't come back from narcissism. They have to be perfect and great because the alternative is they are a monster...and in being unable to face they are a monster they can never to to the point where they merely were a monster.
I’ve always thought of it as the victims are seeking validation and abusers seek affirmation… victims want someone to understand their experience and abusers want someone to confirm that their perspective is the only valid one.
Very good video, and thank you for considering what is in common between narcs and victims of narcissistic abuse. There are many similarities. Obviously the pn always project their feelings onto other people and therefore can unload their feelings instead of processing them.... But don't the victims do the same? To my opinion, the only difference between pn and pn victims, isn't empathy, but compassion. PN do have empathy, the so called 'radar" that allows them to spot their victims. But they have no compassion. THAT is the difference. They can't love.
That is exactly what my ex did. The more he upset he could make me- the calmer he became. When I got back into meditation and journalling -self care, and stopped reacting to his triggering or anxiety inducing behavior, the more he flipped out. Daily meltdowns, fear, anger fits. It was amazing watching him emotionally dissolve in the face of my calm self assuredness. There was nothing I could do to help him. He needed to face himself and he refused. Everything was everyone else's fault for everything wrong.
Yes I put on a face for the cameras at church and social events with my narc wife and her mother as they dragged me around to events where they wanted to impress people. But before we got there and after they left I was subjected to all kinds of verbal and emotional abuse. So yes I put on a false front trying to preserve a family that had no interest in being a family. I bring the MIL in because she made sure she was the centre of everything and my wife was her chief enabler and set zero boundaries for her.
Victims of narc abuse also see the similarities between victims and abusers, and that makes us question whether we have any right to judge or blame the narcissist when we have such similar traits. It's also why we often question whether we are ourselves a narcissist. We begin to think the real narcissist is the victim, and we see ourselves as the villains. And that starts the avalanche of self-blame that can last for years.
Yes. Problem is the black and white thinking. Oftentimes it's ok to accept that if I am miserable in that relationship the majority of the time it's just not a good match regardless of who is right/ wrong. A relationship is an entangled dynamic. I think the moment we blame someone regularly and call them a narcissist yet take no real step on ending the relationship, is a good indicator that we are in cognitive dissonance and live off the victim role.
It's impressive how much the focus of the victim is on the narcissist and what they do. Even feelings of the victims are apparently not their own " he/ she makes me feel" they talk about themselves in passive form and about the other in active form a lot! It's like they cannot see any active role to asign to themselves. Questioning them about it seems to feel to them like being punched in the stomach and they view it as super offending and right off the bat their defense mechanisms rise hostility shows up and you're now an enemy too. I guess because it produces an overwhelming amount of shame. Taking accountability is not claiming blame, it is claiming our power back. Yes trauma hit us during childhood and it was not out fault it happened. Yes we developped well needed defence mechanisms back then according to our circumstances but circumstances have changed and those defense mechanisms need updating. We are safe. We are grown up now. Whether we want it or not, we are now responsible for our well being. It's a great thing actually.
Sounds like you're talking about narcissistic abuse victims which have valued extraverted feeling (Fe), such as ESFJs often. My older sister is an ISFJ, and her siblings that grew up with her sound like an INTP and ESTP, of which I've never met either of my older brothers as Joel (the INTP) was shot by gang members and Robert disappeared until recently but still avoids family like my sister. My mom, an ENFP, was almost certainly a narcissist, and would often rile up her first husband, an ESTJ, into attacking their children daily while she sat back and watched. With my dad, an ISTP, he didn't fall for mom's manipulation and had the general rule of "if I didn't see it, it didn't happen and I'm not hitting my kids", though after he died of lung cancer my mom found an ESTJ to replace him with within three month and I spent the first three years after my dad's death constantly being thrown against walls and metal shelves until I was strong enough to defend myself. Mom loved telling stories about foster care abuse, to prevent us from attempting to leave, and she did that with her first family as well. One thing she hated about me most is that I was strong-willed and wouldn't smile for her stupid fake "happy family" albums which she almost certainly made just in case police were called, so as to pretend we're all so freaking happy. She yelled at me for "ruining her pictures" by looking "angry", even though I wasn't angry mostly but just merely bored and tired. I hated going to playgrounds and being surrounded by so many loudmouthed idiots, much less having to stand and be told to fake smile. At museums though, I could evade her and just see the dinosaurs, although seeing taxidermized birds was a sadness frankly. -_-
That’s broscience.. if at all you can state that both partners who engage in the dance are codependent. One of them is usually the disempowered codependent the other the falsely empowered. They just choose a different strategy as a child/ teen to „survive“ and get their needs met. Yes the falsely empowered seems to be more mean whereas the other engages in more ppl pleasing. To make it more complicated roles can switch back and forth depending on the relationship dynamic. To talk about a victim vs a perpetrator in this context is not helpful. Obviously an outsider! (Professional, Family Friends etc) ( yes i recognize that behind close doors they might act differently yet the mask slips eventually outside too) should observe if one engages in abusive behavior (narcissistic or not). But even this is only relevant if the abusive behavior effects the other. If not it’s irrelevant. If one doesn’t engage in obvious abusive behavior (once again observed from an outside perspective) and the other feels abused it might well be that the latter is the one with the „issues“ (e.g. narcissist/ borderline react strongly on PERCEIVED feeling of abandonment, critics etc). Cheating, yelling , being assertive, argumentative, name calling etc is NOT abusive per se and doesn’t classify for a PD or in the spectrum . Ppl who claim they have been married 20y with a person and after they watched some yt vids about narcissism „suddenly“ realize that they are with an abusive partner … this does say more about the one who makes the claim than about the partner. If ppl don’t feel happy / content with their relationship they should leave if they „can’t „ cause of a „trauma bond „ etc well they should do it anyway .
My mom was a narcissist she seriously changed though, totally calm mellow person..but she bad all the traits... i definitely was shamed constantly growing up..it was bad..some really violent crazy shit happened...drugs..alcohol..divorce..did i mention physical violence Btw? It was bad...your like the prettiest therapist ever btw just sayin
Speaking from my two degrees in Psychology that’s completely wrong unless one is a narcissist and the other has borderline personality disorders. Many of us (yes me too), suffer from CPTSD. We don’t need validation any more than anyone else, and we have no false self. We are very secure in who we are. So please distinguish that.
The 2 validations are very different.
Narcissists need validation by any means.
Victims deserve validation of truth.
I am forced to live with my narcissist parent ( for now) and learning the truth about that parent feels like I'm living with a serial killer that I have to pretend is totally normal. Little by little, job by job, friend by friend ; family members, hope and joy are serial "killed " by the narcissist.
Very well said 🙏
Same here.i am forced to live with narc husband.
Yep
I understand. Make your exit plan, trust in providence, and execute your plan. You got this.
@@rubberbiscuit99 that's what I hope! Thank you
Totally agree, victims of narcissistic abuse...can heal
Victims need justice not just healing
Yeah...low self-esteem...I no longer needed validation once I realised the people from whom I sought it wouldn't piss on me if I was on fire.
I don´t think there is no one at the Internet that explains those subjects so well as you do! Thank you very much. You are a gift of God to us. Best wishes!
The narcissist's goal is to turn you into them and it works while you're in that dynamic. You have to pick up their traits to survive inside the relationship.
Why do they want that?
Yes the approach and avoid thing but also the frozen rabbit. Sometimes when I’m around narcissists I freeze like I’m five years old again. I can’t think or feel any emotions.
My first marriage lasted 7 months...I had the same thing...caught myself freezing like a scared bunny.
Once was enough.
I carry now...it's been 40 years since all that but the reality is, a woman doesn't stand a chance any other way.
same here, sometimes if a male raises their voice even slightly i start shaking internally, totally forgett what i wanted to say or do and freeze....it also takes me days to feel allright again. this does not happen often, as i have years of therapy under my belt and usually am not triggered so easily, but if it happens when i allready feel bad physically or tired and it happens out of nowhere this can lead to beforesaid reaction.
With females its the same result, if they display behaviours such as being hectic or interrupt. (this is bc of my covert, but highly malignant narc mom, who is part of re-lie gious cult to boot). she used to thrive on making me nervous, giving me stress, destabilise me, not replying at all to what i told her, espec. if i was happy, etc. etc.+fed on my emotional pain in many ways, this started when i was 3 years old..... it became worse with her age, where weird "accidents" started to happen where i ended up hurt or she would hurt my ears by slamming the trunk of the car extra hard, or hit the brakes when it was not necessary, one time she allmost ran me over, etc., etc., this was all before i heavilly minimized contact with her, and i no longer visit or stay over night, she used to keep me awake using sleep deprivation, or would not allow me to take a shower when i wanted, after a whole day of garden work in the sun, knowing very well, how much i needed both, especially for my chronic condition.
this was her way of making me uncomfortable or controlling even my most intimate needs....bc she would offer to heat the water for the bathtub but this would take forever, causing sleep deprivation again, since she had to bathe too+it was a ordeal, which i did not want so i would only wash myself at the sink with a tiny rinse of icecold water, which was not same of course, energetically......but the shower was working and fast, so it would of been the ideal solution, but she would lie and say that it could brake, bc of the way the electricity was at the old house, however this was NOT TRUE, the Electrician clearly had said, the Problem we once had, had nothing to do with the shower, but was a old socket in the Bedroom, which he had repaired. But she loved making my Life difficult, with her evershifting goalposts, etc. I did have my own Place since Years at that Time+nothing felt better then finally coming Home+showering, washing all that toxic Energy off. One good Thing came from this, i realised how greatfull i am for what i have+seeing her clearly for who she is+ i no longer allow ANY such Behaviour in my Life though. Nowaday i am happy+thriving. ;) Fullfilling all my emotional and physical Needs sufficiently+in a healthy Way.
I noticed that if somebody is highly narcissistic, I tend to fawn and freeze over them.
It takes time to heal from narcissist abuse because they don’t only break your heart, but spirit also. 💙RUclipsr That Helps People Overcome Toxic Relationships
yes. they are very similar. i am a tarot reader. the interesting thing is when i do toxic relationship readings, it's hard to tell the difference between the narc vs the victim, the abuse vs reactive abuse, etc. they have similar actions with different motives and reasons. ❤️
I am a tooth fairy and I cant differ narcs and victims teeth also. There must be something in it xD
It’s easy to tell. The victim is the one paying you.
@@boxelder9167😂 true. Still, both facets of a same coin entangled in toxic bond.
Thanks Michele, this was easy to follow and understand. It made a great deal of sense to me where countless books only caused more confusion in my frazzled brain. I wasn't recognised as a child, and felt it was my job to make Mum and Dad happy. It was the only validation I got so I felt good when I was thanked for my efforts. Even a small acknowledgment was like gold to me. I was the knight in shining armour to my covert narcissist as I saved her from her very dysfunctional family. She held the same morals and values as me, and I thought how lucky we both were to find each other. As time passed and I formed a deep emotional bond, slowly but surely my wishes became less and less relevant until I felt guilty to expect any love. While being told I was selfish and unreasonable. I never stood up for myself but when I saw my children being treated with the same utter contempt, while being told they were" happy" and " There's something wrong with you". I lost my temper and shouted like crazy. And yes, she did drive me crazy. I think then she realized the game was up and the mask slipped off completely. I could never leave my kids, especially with their mother so 5yrs of hell went by before she fled with the kid. Playing the victim ( DARVO) to a troop of flying monkey. So convincing I could almost believe her myself, if it weren't for her immediately promoting her best friends husband to primary supply. That didn't last six months, but it sure as hell kicked the crap out of both me and the kids. Loving someone unconditionally and hating them simultaneously is confusing to say the least, and deeply traumatic for both me and the kids. I've struggled for twenty-two years now, and am finally coming to terms with what happened. Your videos and others have helped me enormously. In a small community I am still the villain and she's the abused for many people What I named the "Fake Public Persona" is as strong and convincing as ever, and our children have grown up afraid to challenge their mother in any way, for fear of being denied the conditional affection she metres out judged on performance. I've read they steal your identity, and leave you theirs. I think it's true. To try and explain what happened to anyone who knows her is pointless, and I'd be thought as a nasty ex husband. Your videos have really helped me see I'm not mad or bad. I don't think my wife is evil, only very sick. To this day she still believes she has done nothing wrong, and I am responsible for everything. Two years ago she hoovered me for the last time. I confronted her with the knowledge I'd gained, she was terrified and promptly "Stonewalled" me. These days she has had to confine her abuse to triangulation through the kids. It has been a godsend. Knowledge truly is power!. Sorry for the long rant and thanks a million for your help. You literally saved my life.
The lonely despair of the child is so stark and breaks my heart as I remember similar feelings
Great topic. As a victim of narc abuse, I question my attitude. With the resentment I hold, I have became more closed in or a little snappy with ppl. I have gained so much more knowledge and with some of my verbage/actions, makes me seem toxic. That’s the hard part when it comes to explaining how I feel or I can tell others in a rage “I don’t want to see the ex or hear their voice!” And if I meet with the ex ( because We co parent ) it’s like I know how to put on the mask now
Both my parents were Narcissistic, They Divorced when I was 5 my mother only criticized me, no hugs kisses,, or love never said I love you, she only let me know I wasn't good enough like her she was God's gift, everyone loved her, but was mother dearest at home. My father was the same but 6'2 and abusive. I wasn't a person I was a extension of him, never good enough. Ever since I remember I was a loving giver, I gave kids in elementary things of mine just to make them happy, I still do and I'm 49, I'm a empath, giver that's just the way it is, I tried to change but can't. I quit talking to my parents about 8 years ago, the haven't once called me or tried for me. Thanks for the video. I'm still working on it. To not choose narcissist to be in a relationship with.. that's another story.
This is similar to my story ♥️ I'm 42.
Sorry Shane you didn’t get the love you deserved growing up .
Love you Michelle, human angel, beautiful human ❤️
This is the best description I have ever heard! It explains so much and validates! Thank you!!
Yes, exactly what i thpught..i never really heard the full logical explanation, thank you very much for that!
I don't need validation I just need them to leave me the hell alone and get the hell out of my life. I was striving to move forward throughout my life many times until I find them peaking in my life and infiltrating my life. Go no contact and they just can't understand.
On that note I'm not a narcissist and found those that are that have been in my life are on another level of masterful manipulation and exploitation.
They created it.
Behind a codependent there's a narcissist or psychopath who perverted a healthy child (at least in and emotional and psychological levels.
Narcs are obsessed with loading us down with contradictions & falsehoods & emotional & psychological damages. This has caused me decades of circle thoughts ruminating over what they have implanted in my mind. This is the way they remote control .
I find it helpful to search out problems in my life that I can correct or fix. This helps me fix things because I am glad it is something I can control. It is helping me to get things transformed from bad energy to positive energy... because I get things fixed & I do it by not ruminating on the narc damage. It gives me something better to think about.
@@helenshg4580 thanks 🙏
I Might Be A Covert Narc By That Descrition Because It Has Taken Me So Long And Has Been Excruciatingly Difficult. To Just Accept/Say This Is What I Think, This Is What I Feel, This Is What I Am. I Haven't Yet Reached As Far As, And This Is What I Would Like To Do.
This really makes sense to me. especially the validation part. For both sides. I have a horribly narcissistic husband that i have been dealing with for years and it has been emotionally draining for me. I think the part of needing validation as a victim of narcissist abuse is something I have struggled with even though i can still validate myself internally on the days i feel strong but it always goes back to being twisted that it’s my issue ( with a smirk on his face) I literally have to continually talk to myself and tell myself this is part of HIS cycle not mine. It’s scary what a narcissist believes about themselves and what they attempt to put on a spouse or children and feel no remorse. I finally got vocal with him 15 years ago in and out of marriage counseling with the same results … nothing changed. The gaslighting and the love bombing and then the “ flip” comes where i’m and intrusion to him and not respecting him and all of the other things that come. He knows exactly what to say and do to trigger my reaction to him. Sometimes it’s hard to think of someone in my mind being this calculated and evil and why would someone actually treat people this way. I am finding my feet and my own personal validation just by telling myself I am worthy of something better. I am so thankful my boys see this in him and vow to never be like him or treat a woman, wife, girlfriend like he does. For me even understanding all of this you have said in the video which is totally accurate when it’s an abuse issue I think we have to make it our daily walk to move forward and not get stuck in a pattern which i’m guilty of doing all the time. “ Why does he tell me things and never follows through? “why doesn’t he want. good and healthy marriage” “ Why is it constant turmoil?” and then I stop myself and say “ why do I keep putting up with it?” Because when you back a narcissist up to either get help and fix the issues or it’s over , then the real authentic narcissist emerges and it’s a whole different level of abuse. As a victim of narcissist abuse I think we have to know our truth and hold on to it and understand who we are dealing with.
Keep doing these videos. So helpful! I think my siblings have got worse over time. When they succeed, they become worse and very puffed up. They mock those who challenge their actions and tell you youre the problem.
My covert narc mother does exactly the whole "nothing is wrong with me, nothing touches me, nothing cant be got over and remaining positive about!" Adding, your emotion are too strong for you. Like, you cant handle your emotions, you overwhelm yourself, get on with your life.
When your whole family doesnt acknowledge that the other narc SIL has done something that breaks all your trust, all your work on building self validation and self trust and self reliance flies out the window. Because the abuse leaves no physical wounds, no one believes you, even significant others on why you are NEVER contacting these self grandiosing creeps again, its lonely AF.
Seeing that i have been seeing life as my folks, and believing the same crap, is devastating when you realise you have to rewire yourself, and try to lose that way of thinking.
Its wrecked relationships of all kinds. My marriage is better, because i dont expect what my mother does from my father, from my spouse. And i realise he actually has feelings. This has been a recent revelation. As stupid as it sounds, because he also had narc upbringing, he just came across as my mother. But i think reactive abuse is going to get a reaction where they wont behave nicely either.
Moving forward in some areas, and drowning in others.
Wow! I feel so seen! The second commonality of the False Self holding me back from declaring and going for my desires totally explains so much! It feels like I have been beating against the same wall for so long. I search and learn and dig, but always end up in the same place. It makes so much sense now! Thank you!
I feel very sick living in this sitiuation and seems I dont have a way to go out of it
dont study too much on narcissism before you get out it may aggrevate the complexities of the abuse instead of clearing it up. Stick to the diagnostic criteria and escape strategies is my advice. I will explain some strategies here if you wish.Godspeed
It's takes time to change wrong beliefs, our narrative, all the junk implanted in our subconscious mind.
This has been my ah ha moment. 😭 I am so thankful to you. I now realize that I didn’t really exist, almost, in my head. I was only pleased when other people smiled. I thought I was doing a good and selfless thing but I have to care about myself too and that always was painful to do. Now I am learning to be in the picture as well.
This is spot on to the way I’ve been in a relationship for years .. although I’ve had enough of running after him whilst he has done all for himself.
This is the best explanation I've heard re 'how and why' narcs are narcs. Thank you, Michele.
Very good video. Thank you very much. It all makes sense, been a victim of abuse for 30 years.
I couldn't agree more. perfectly put and explained.
I think the victim of a narcissist wants affirmation like someone who has been stabbed and has lost a lot of blood wants a blood transfusion. The narcissist is also bleeding out, but their approach is to take the blood of others (then bleed it out because they don't tend the wound). However the victim of the narcissist typically thinks you have to go by blood transfusion - they don't realise they can start wrapping their own wound and generating their own new blood supply. When they do realise and try to do so IMO they start to grow stronger and stronger at doing so.
In some ways though I think the victim of a narcissist has it sort of easier because in trying to please everyone, even if that is a bit manipulative, it isn't really all that bad and so the victim doesn't have to face any history of having done hundreds of horrible things (while pretending they are great). The narcissist, to heal, does face this history. That's probably part of why they typically just don't come back from narcissism. They have to be perfect and great because the alternative is they are a monster...and in being unable to face they are a monster they can never to to the point where they merely were a monster.
I think so too.
Great clarity..simply explained..much gratitude to u
Michele, this video is the best gem I could have ever received. This explains everything for me. I can see myself and others more clearly.
I’ve always thought of it as the victims are seeking validation and abusers seek affirmation… victims want someone to understand their experience and abusers want someone to confirm that their perspective is the only valid one.
Thank you for your great analysis on those similarities and differences. You have nailed it Michelle!
C'MON, BIG BEAR, YOU CAN DO IT !!!!
I believe in you!! Don't ever give up ❤
I believe
In YOU !!!
❤😻
Very good video, and thank you for considering what is in common between narcs and victims of narcissistic abuse. There are many similarities. Obviously the pn always project their feelings onto other people and therefore can unload their feelings instead of processing them.... But don't the victims do the same?
To my opinion, the only difference between pn and pn victims, isn't empathy, but compassion.
PN do have empathy, the so called 'radar" that allows them to spot their victims. But they have no compassion. THAT is the difference. They can't love.
Thanks.
That's a really clear explanation. 👍🙂
This is the best and most helpful video I've heard on this subject! Makes sense! Thank you so much! 🙏🏻🤗❤️
Thank you so much Michele, your work is so helpful. Big hugs ♥
Thank you for this video Michelle! Its what I needed to hear!
My mother is a nsrc. She just loves everybody more than me. ..always not taking me serious.
That is exactly what my ex did. The more he upset he could make me- the calmer he became. When I got back into meditation and journalling -self care, and stopped reacting to his triggering or anxiety inducing behavior, the more he flipped out. Daily meltdowns, fear, anger fits. It was amazing watching him emotionally dissolve in the face of my calm self assuredness. There was nothing I could do to help him. He needed to face himself and he refused. Everything was everyone else's fault for everything wrong.
Meditation, journaling and self care. That is exactly what got me out of the victim/ perpetrator loop. Bliss 😊
Yes I put on a face for the cameras at church and social events with my narc wife and her mother as they dragged me around to events where they wanted to impress people. But before we got there and after they left I was subjected to all kinds of verbal and emotional abuse. So yes I put on a false front trying to preserve a family that had no interest in being a family. I bring the MIL in because she made sure she was the centre of everything and my wife was her chief enabler and set zero boundaries for her.
Best explanation
Victims of narc abuse also see the similarities between victims and abusers, and that makes us question whether we have any right to judge or blame the narcissist when we have such similar traits. It's also why we often question whether we are ourselves a narcissist. We begin to think the real narcissist is the victim, and we see ourselves as the villains. And that starts the avalanche of self-blame that can last for years.
Yes. Problem is the black and white thinking. Oftentimes it's ok to accept that if I am miserable in that relationship the majority of the time it's just not a good match regardless of who is right/ wrong. A relationship is an entangled dynamic. I think the moment we blame someone regularly and call them a narcissist yet take no real step on ending the relationship, is a good indicator that we are in cognitive dissonance and live off the victim role.
It's impressive how much the focus of the victim is on the narcissist and what they do. Even feelings of the victims are apparently not their own " he/ she makes me feel" they talk about themselves in passive form and about the other in active form a lot! It's like they cannot see any active role to asign to themselves. Questioning them about it seems to feel to them like being punched in the stomach and they view it as super offending and right off the bat their defense mechanisms rise hostility shows up and you're now an enemy too. I guess because it produces an overwhelming amount of shame. Taking accountability is not claiming blame, it is claiming our power back. Yes trauma hit us during childhood and it was not out fault it happened. Yes we developped well needed defence mechanisms back then according to our circumstances but circumstances have changed and those defense mechanisms need updating. We are safe. We are grown up now. Whether we want it or not, we are now responsible for our well being. It's a great thing actually.
Sounds like you're talking about narcissistic abuse victims which have valued extraverted feeling (Fe), such as ESFJs often. My older sister is an ISFJ, and her siblings that grew up with her sound like an INTP and ESTP, of which I've never met either of my older brothers as Joel (the INTP) was shot by gang members and Robert disappeared until recently but still avoids family like my sister.
My mom, an ENFP, was almost certainly a narcissist, and would often rile up her first husband, an ESTJ, into attacking their children daily while she sat back and watched. With my dad, an ISTP, he didn't fall for mom's manipulation and had the general rule of "if I didn't see it, it didn't happen and I'm not hitting my kids", though after he died of lung cancer my mom found an ESTJ to replace him with within three month and I spent the first three years after my dad's death constantly being thrown against walls and metal shelves until I was strong enough to defend myself. Mom loved telling stories about foster care abuse, to prevent us from attempting to leave, and she did that with her first family as well.
One thing she hated about me most is that I was strong-willed and wouldn't smile for her stupid fake "happy family" albums which she almost certainly made just in case police were called, so as to pretend we're all so freaking happy. She yelled at me for "ruining her pictures" by looking "angry", even though I wasn't angry mostly but just merely bored and tired. I hated going to playgrounds and being surrounded by so many loudmouthed idiots, much less having to stand and be told to fake smile. At museums though, I could evade her and just see the dinosaurs, although seeing taxidermized birds was a sadness frankly. -_-
Do you know anything about spiritual and kundalini awakening and ways to cope with it?
But they deal w shame in completely different ways. Victims will say I need help.
Yes - 100%
That’s broscience.. if at all you can state that both partners who engage in the dance are codependent. One of them is usually the disempowered codependent the other the falsely empowered. They just choose a different strategy as a child/ teen to „survive“ and get their needs met. Yes the falsely empowered seems to be more mean whereas the other engages in more ppl pleasing. To make it more complicated roles can switch back and forth depending on the relationship dynamic. To talk about a victim vs a perpetrator in this context is not helpful. Obviously an outsider! (Professional, Family Friends etc) ( yes i recognize that behind close doors they might act differently yet the mask slips eventually outside too) should observe if one engages in abusive behavior (narcissistic or not). But even this is only relevant if the abusive behavior effects the other. If not it’s irrelevant. If one doesn’t engage in obvious abusive behavior (once again observed from an outside perspective) and the other feels abused it might well be that the latter is the one with the „issues“ (e.g. narcissist/ borderline react strongly on PERCEIVED feeling of abandonment, critics etc). Cheating, yelling , being assertive, argumentative, name calling etc is NOT abusive per se and doesn’t classify for a PD or in the spectrum . Ppl who claim they have been married 20y with a person and after they watched some yt vids about narcissism „suddenly“ realize that they are with an abusive partner … this does say more about the one who makes the claim than about the partner. If ppl don’t feel happy / content with their relationship they should leave if they „can’t „ cause of a „trauma bond „ etc well they should do it anyway .
How to work on it?
Your Creator feels and remembers everything even if you can't because it's too much, which it most likely is.
My mom was a narcissist she seriously changed though, totally calm mellow person..but she bad all the traits... i definitely was shamed constantly growing up..it was bad..some really violent crazy shit happened...drugs..alcohol..divorce..did i mention physical violence Btw? It was bad...your like the prettiest therapist ever btw just sayin
What do you think got her to change? And do you think the change was internal or she just behaves better?
?? You say they cannot see what they are doing ?
Is this always true or they can evaluate themselves after therapy
Speaking from my two degrees in Psychology that’s completely wrong unless one is a narcissist and the other has borderline personality disorders. Many of us (yes me too), suffer from CPTSD. We don’t need validation any more than anyone else, and we have no false self. We are very secure in who we are. So please distinguish that.
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