Is the RAPTURE Pre-trib, Mid-trib, or Post-trib?
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 11 сен 2024
- Our listener asks, "Please explain the difference between Pre-Trib, Mid-Tri, Post-Trib and A-mill. And, how the verses the last three use are out of context. Also, how the books mainly written to the Jews, are also meant for us." biblelineminis...
-- SUBSCRIBE -- / bibleline
-- LIKE -- / biblelinemin
-- TWEET -- / biblelinemin
-- COMMENT -- ask us a question!
-- SHARE -- with all your friends and family
Do you have a Bible question? Send your question to questions@biblelineministries.org!
Support Bibleline - www.calvaryoft...
Bibleline is a ministry of Calvary Community Church in Tampa, Florida and is hosted by Pastor Jesse Martinez.
LIKE THIS? CHECK THESE GUYS OUT:
/ northlandchurchstc
(Tom Cucuzza)
/ @ingrace
(Jim Scudder)
/ northsidechurchathens
(Freddie Coile)
/ biblelinebroadcast
(Yankee Arnold)
/ thekeesboerministrycha...
(Kees Boer)
#pretrib #midtrib #posttrib #bibleline #rapture #tribulation #daniel #thessalonians #antichrist #prophecy #prophet #revelation
There is a difference between TRIBULATION, and WRATH! The ONLY thing that we are promised to be SAVED FROM the WRATH of God.. The Church, the Christians, will go through real persecution and trouble.. BEFORE Jesus Christ comes again! PREPARE for PERSECUTION! 🙏✝️🙏
Amen! this is the True View!
@@evang.michaele.caruthers8997 praise God amen brother I agree ❤️
Yes but God has a symmetry unto Him. He doesn't just do things for no reason. Israel were called to birth the Messiah, the Gentiles were called to deliver the Gospel unto the whole world. The Kingdom Age is again about Israel, not the Church, the 70th week is about Israel, not the Church the gates of hell can not prevail against the church. We are in Christ (Barley) we thus are ready to be sifted, Israel are the Wheat, and wheat HAS TO BE CRUSHED in order to be sifted. The Wheat grows with the tares unto the end, some Jews are a part of the Bride of Christ, most will have the Fathers name on their forehead meaning they repent after the 70th week begins. Did you know the English word tribulation is derived from the Greek word used to describe a machine that crushed wheat? It was called a Tribulum, look it up. Israel is not ready to be sifted we he church bare ready.
I totally also agree with brother Jessie on the Rapture passages he gave pertaining to the removal of the church, ( body of Christ) from the earth before the tribulation period.
Here a thought!
We are also considered as tha bride of christ in Scripture.
Why , would any one want their bride to go through 7 horrible years of tribulation before the husdandman came spend time with her, as pertaining to eyernal life with christ?
That just wont fly!
Great job brother Jessie on the Rapture lesson indeed.
I believe according to Scripture you my brother Are spot on.
God bless ❤️❤️🙏👍
See there you go with that.Why would anyone want their bride to be abused like that?Why was Peter crucified upside down? Why was Paul beheaded? Why are Christians in the Middle East persecuted and murdered everyday? Aren't they, and us all the bride? There is only 1 second coming
Interesting brother, I never considered that we could not only be members of the Groom’s body, but also the “bride”…like we’re going marry ourselves?!😅 I pretty much think that God’s people Israel are the “bride of the Lamb”, and we of the nations are members of Christ’s body? Idk, but I think understanding 2 Tim. 2:15 might be what we need to clear this up👍🙂
What about all of the saints who were severely persecuted ever since the First Century? ..were they not a part of the Bride of Christ?? And yet they we severely persecuted, and put to death! We today are NO better than they! Also, there is NOT ONE Scripture anywhere in the Bible that clearly says that Jesus Christ will come again, and take us out BEFORE tribulation! WHERE does it say, BEFORE tribulation?? It is not in there.
@@evang.michaele.caruthers8997 scripture makes it pretty clear to me, what do you think these mean? “For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,”(1Thes. 5:9), or “and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, even Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come.”(1Thes. 1:10)
AMEN!
Excellent teaching, as always!
Thank you kindly! - Jesse
@@BibleLine John Neslon Darby invented the pre-tribulation rapture doctrine around 1830 AD. Prior to its popularization by the Scofield Bible, the roots of Dispensational
Theology are traceable to John Nelson Darby & the Plymouth Brethren group within England. Darby’s teaching has become enshrined in the Scofield Reference Bible, the most popular of all reference bibles. And the church is not subject to the wrath.
@@BibleLine 2 Thessalonians 2:1 - coming (παρουσία) - advent/Second coming of Christ
gathering together - "rapture" / Same event will take place.
Darby pre-trib teaching “The Rapture and the Second Coming are two distinct events".
Clearly in this verse states the rapture will take place in the Second coming of Christ. And yes once save always save.
@@BibleLine The PREtrib rapture is false. Give me one ☝🏼 PREtrib scripture? Please
@@montaguproctor-beauchamp8579 you goof by quoting heretical modern Greek as do those that quote the demonic new bible versions. As Satan has reversed meanings of words such as “ LET “ he also had heretics like Strong create bogus concordances to deceive you. God gave you the KJV bible in English so ignore men’s demonically modified Greek.
Thank you so much for this clear biblical explanation of the tribulation periods!
@IYearn4HisReturn Apparently I just did! Keep looking up, Jesus Christ is coming back soon!
@IYearn4HisReturn interesting. Hmm. truly do you yearn for His return??Hmmm.
@IYearn4HisReturnI'm unable to find your original comment. I'll pray for you my friend. The divide in Christ's Bride is real and our conversation proves this. Not one person on this earth has the answers. Scripture(His Word)holds the answers. Our feeling have nothing to do with it. God is in control and knows the ones who truly love Him and will spend forever with Him. We battle between not flesh and blood. I'm not your enemy, Satan is and He is defeated. Amen🕊
Your comment isn’t blocked. Thanks. - Jesse
@IYearn4HisReturn 2nd Chronicles 20:20 🕊
If Scofield & Co popularised the pre trib rapture it is only because it is one of hundreds of Gods teachings learned in due season. An example : do we say Billy Graham invented Christ because he introduced thousands to the word of God? : can one claim Winston Churchill or the UN wrote Joel 3:2 because they ……“ parted my land” .
Was Christianity only invented by the printing press?
How much of the word was insight gained in 1948 when surprise, surprise the land of Israel was again on the world’s map.
I think Mid-Trib myself for no other reason than "at the sound of the last trumpet the dead in Christ shall rise first"...... the last trumpet is before the 7 bowls of wrath
Actually, if you compare the trumpets (Revelation 8-11) and bowls (Revelation 16) side-by-side they appear to be describing the same events from two different perspectives. What seems to be happening is that each trumpet precedes one of the bowls. For example in chapter 16 it says that when the sixth bowl is poured out the Euphrates river is dried up, while in chapter 9 the sixth trumpet sounds and the four angels bound in the Euphrates river are released.
The pre-trib rapture follows already established biblical precedent. Look at Genesis chapter 5, and focus especially on verses 21-24. Those verses in particular specify that Enoch walked with God and was not, because God took him. This is different from all of the other people in the chapter before and after Enoch, because for the rest of them the text explicitly spells out that they died. That makes Enoch the prototype of the rapture. Then later we see Noah and his family, who are the prototype for the remnant that will be protected through the pouring out of God's wrath. Note that it isn't until after Enoch is taken out that we get to chapter 6 and the decision is made to wipe the Earth clean. If we follow the same pattern of events, the rapture will occur, after which mankind will wax worse and worse completely unchecked. God will decide it is time to wipe the slate clean again, and prepare the 144,000 witnesses who are to be a remnant, using the great tribulation period. As God pours his wrath out on the Earth, the 144,000 will be protected, just as Noah and his family rode the ark through the flood.
Amen! It seems that people who teach Mid , Post, and A mill also teach another gospel of works. Wonder what the correlation is with that ? Interesting
I've noticed exactly what you have mentioned to be true. However, I know there are solid believers with a difference of opinion. But more false doctrine is associated with mid, post, and a-mill. - Jesse
where is it written? a rapture at the coming of the Lord AND PROOF IT IS BEFORE TRIBULATION?
whats wrong with works?
if you truly love Jesus and desire to be like Him then OBVIOUSLY you would desire to do the things he did. cast out demons, heal the sick. you know, the kinda things that help advance the kingdom of God.
Mark 16
16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
Rev. 22
12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
This Last Day James Saint has NEVER spread the Gospel... not once. I am positive he isn't SAVED! Instead of arguing with him about scripture, spread the Gospel to him! He needs to fully understand Jesus did it ALL on the cross and simply believing Jesus died for your sins and rose again on 3rd day according to scriptures, saves you... works only get you rewards once you are Saved. Works don't save you, or keep you Saved.
I think this shows pre-trib rapture.
Revelation 3:10 KJV
"Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth."
That’s a useful scripture, but 1-2 Thessalonians definitely makes it clear that it’s a Pre-trib rapture
- Trent
@@BibleLine not true brother. Let’s talk about it? Let’s go live and have a discussion?
@@Keepitoriginalministry We are not appointed to wrath but to obtain salvation through Jesus Christ our lord. You think the wrath of the lamb who we are bought and paid for by his own blood will pour out his wrath upon his purchased possessions? Also who is it from every tongue tribe and nation that Jesus purchased with his life's blood giving glory to just before he opens the seals?
@larryhoward-pl1pe Sorry, but Jesus clearly says in Matthew 24 that the days of the great tribulation would be shortened because no flesh would be saved, but for the elects sake. If the great tribulation was fully God's wrath why would it be shortened
@@garrydalton1580 not appointed to wrath but to obtain salvation through Jesus Christ our Lord, what does that say to you? It's pretty obvious to me. Wrath of the lamb is God's wrath all the way to the last vial. The church is not the only ones that will be saved. There will be a lot more during the tribulation not to mention the 144000.
Thank you!
Well, since Paul states that we “have not been appointed to wrath” and that we’re to be “delivered from the wrath to come”, and Jesus says that we’ll be “kept from the trial that is to come upon the world”, I guess that means that Christ’s second coming is not the same event as the body of Christ leaving, actually we may return with Christ😊❤
I don't think that people realize that belief in post trib is logically not believing the gospel.
"Jesus died for your sins but you're going to have to reject the Mark of the beast, otherwise you'll go to hell anyway."
It's an absolutely ludicrous belief that believers will not be taken first.
There will be a lot of Christians in name only left behind because they have believed a false gospel but true believers are outta here.
@@JP-ec9rl yes sir that’s logical…God is logical! Wait until you learn about the glorious “all in all”(1 Cor. 15:21-25)
@@user-xh7cy3uj8x yes, that passage goes hand in hand with the millennial kingdom and finally the destruction of death.
@@JP-ec9rl It actually speaks to 1 Tim. 4:9-11 and Rom. 5:12-18🙏🙂
@@JP-ec9rl no what is the gospel ? That Christ was born of a virgin that he died in the cross an was buried an rose on the third day an is alive an sitting at the right hand of the father believing in Christ Jesus that when we die we will be with him for ever an all eternity that is the gospel the Bible does not say that us believing in Christ that we won’t suffer tribulation that we won’t die it teaches the exact opposite it literally says that we will die but with Jesus an walking with him we will live forever with him
I totally agree with you on the fact!
When people who are not teaching the clear true word of God, i put up a Red Flag as well!!!!
But, i also believe that brothers and sisters in Christ can agree to dis agree on things that are not being taught correctly as pertaining to the Gospel.
We all ( Christians) are to : study & show ourselves approved unto God, ( Not men)
A workman needed not be ashamed , rightly , dividing the word of truth. ( 2Timothy 2:15).
Paul plainly tells us in the word what the word of truth is.
The Gospel og Christ!
Christ died for our Sins, was buried, & Was Resurrected for our Justication.
According to the Goepel, we are Saved the moment we place our trust in the Gospel.( 1Corinthains 15:1-4).
Christ died for all my Sins, ( Past, present,& future sins)
Jesus took away All of our Sins, not a few, but ALL of them , never to be remembered again.
❤ God bless those who truly believe the truth of the Gospel.🙏🙏🙏
I found this video very comforting. That is if the pre tribulation rapture really is true according to scripture. I have to say however regarding replacement theology I am mixed about it. I admit I do believe it personally based upon what I've read in the Scriptures nevertheless I am more than willing to be proven wrong. Love your videos Thanks
Hey Keaton! Glad that you find our videos helpful. Even if we disagree on certain things, we can still fellowship in the clarity of the gospel. The Mid, Post/Pre-Wrath/Amill positions are popular in many a contexts, but I (Trent) believe they fall short. Jesse explained our position pretty well in the video, but one key thing for me is, Why the tribulation? What is the purpose that the church should go through the tribulation if it is specifically targeted toward Israel? Daniel's prophecy makes it very clear that the full 70 weeks is determined upon the people of Israel, not that of Gentiles. the first 483 years of Israel's 70x7 years (Leviticus 26 , Daniel 9) have been accomplished, but the other 7 are yet to come. Of course the OT does not detail any catching away or rapture event, but the entire church was a mystery that had not begun until Paul and Peter. This is one reason I believe in a Pre-trib rapture, but it pales in comparison to the clarity of 2 Thessalonians 2. 2 Thess. 2:1-2 cannot be escaped in honest study of the timing of the leaving of the church. We're looking for Jesus (rapture), but we aren't looking for him to come in wrath (Second coming of power). Thank you for supporting us here at Bibleline.
- Trent
Blessed hope. And at the appointed time with The Feast of Trumpets?
We shall see. The month of September is always exciting! - Jesse
@@BibleLine
You clearly OMIT the resurrection of the dead that must occur BEFORE the (rapture).
1 Thessalonians 4: 16-17
For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
... and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up ...
resurrection first
then comes the (rapture)
AT THE COMING OF THE LORD
WHEN IS RESURRECTION?
John 6: 44 - AT THE LAST DAY
John 11: 24 - AT THE LAST DAY
1 Cor. 15: 51-52 - AT THE SOUNDING OF THE LAST TRUMPET
A LAST DAY LAST TRUMPET RESURRECTION IS NOT BEFORE TRIBULATION OR GREAT TRIBULATION
ACCORDING TO REVELATION 10 and 11.
and the (rapture) comes AFTER the resurrection.
WHERE CAN WE READ ABOUT A (rapture) at the coming of the LORD after THE 7TH and LAST TRUMPET?
AT THE POURING OUT OF THE LAST VIAL OF GOD'S WRATH
Written for EVERYONE to READ and BELIEVE.
1 Thes. 5
2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
Revelation 16: 15-17
15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.
the (rapture) --- > 16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
ENDURE to the END just as JESUS told us to do.
@@BibleLine
WE ARE STILL HERE.
The lord is not slack concerning his promise but is longsuffering towards us not willing that ANY should perish.@@LastDaySaintJames
Hey Jesse, I want to openly put out there. That the only reason I came to a conclusion of the Tribulation Rapture/Resurrection. Is because every time it is written in the bible about the caught up scenario in all its verses for the books. There's an association of the word "Trump" or "Trumpet" written with it. Which has led my understanding with clear context written out from the final book of Revelation. That anything to do with a shout, and a trumpet. Is Christs second coming, and for the dead to rise first, and those that remain alive are to be caught up. Just reads to my understanding that the supernatural event of a "Rapture" is when Christ comes back to earth. Which is only said to be once more since his 1st resurrection 3 days after the cross.
Maybe I'm dense, but I couldn't quite see your point for the pre-trib Rapture in scripture. Because the verse you mentioned about a "falling away first" is what I understood as a mass amount of believers who will fall away from their faith because of a deception type of event to occur. Even in Revelation 16 it states 3 frogs, which I interpret as "Aliens", and that seems to be one of the many today topics on the media. I get the sense that because we as a nation, have done the will to believe on Jesus Christ. Are under more protection than most, and being that of Israel. In some ways I interpret all bad things to come, are prophesied to what will happen to Israel alone, but not the general Church.
I'll leave this here. If a pre-trib rapture event happens. I'm stoked! but if it doesn't. I understand that in the KJV, there is absolute certainty for a time when one will absolutely occur. Which will be the second coming.
A fellow brethren made a 2 part documentary on end times events I think BibleLine would appreciate, and enjoy speculating on. That uses scripture throughout it from the KJV. Take a look and make a video if you'd like to react. It would be a fun watch.
FILM ON THE ANTICHRIST 1: The Prince of the Covenant > ruclips.net/video/TCfJTxEUMrE/видео.html&pp=gAQB
FILM ON THE ANTICHRIST 2: Esau Is Edom > ruclips.net/video/ibv9FF91UII/видео.html
2 Thess. 2:3 is not FALLING AWAY [from the Faith) it was called the Departure in the first 7 English translations, the Church of England via the KJV changed it, seemingly taking a shot at their RCC rivals as if to imply apostacy. Now reread the passage, nowhere is FAITH ever spoke about, but a Gathering together unto Christ Jesus is spoken about in the very first verse, so Satan has lied, Paul is saying HEY, QUIT FEARING, before the DOTL comes there must be a DEPARTURE (of the Church) and the Man of Sin must be revealed, ONLY THEN can the Wrath fall. So, when does both things happen? At the exact same time, there is NO GAP like many assume, why do I now this? Because I know what the Agreement is (Agreement means Covenant) it is this, the E.U. welcomes Israel as a Member State after the Gog and Magog war, they give God's land away (basically) and Gods anger is reignited, the 70th week chastisement is on again, and the Rapture happens because the Time of the Gentiles Fulness [of SERVICE] is come full.
What about the last Trumpet that sounds as the two end time Witnesses are raised from the dead in the clouds in revelation11 ?
Rev11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
And we all know Jesus comes in the clouds at the last Trumpet
1Thess 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
1Cori15:51Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
Matt 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
??
Watch Ministry of Worldview conflict with Pastor Dave Bisenius you won't be sorry He discusses the different beliefs in Pre, Mid, And Pos Tribulation very interesting!
The Apostle foretells that before the coming of the Lord, there shall be a throne set up clean contrary to Christ’s glory, wherein that wicked man shall sit, and transfer all things that appertain to God, to himself, and many shall fall away from God to him.
Pre-Trib is a dangerous doctrine to preach if not true. We are not appointed to Gods wrath that is true, but we are subject to the wrath of the enemy, scripture says he makes war with the saints and what of those under the alter who say how long Lord before justice is brought to the earth.
I dont know if you are aware of the documentary by pastor steven anderson "After the tribulation" in which he supposedly refutes the doctrine of dispensationalism and the pre tribulation rapture? If so what are your thoughts on it?
I have not seen it, but from the little bit of Steven I have seen, it is clear he is off on certain doctrines. We plan to produce more content addressing these topics soon. We pray this will be a help to many, including yourself. If you have specific questions that you think could use a video, please email them to questions@biblelineministries.org
- Trent
My friend,
One question, by what gospel are the tribulation saints saved?
I presume we agree that there is only one gospel through all time.
Ephesians 4:5 KJV
One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
And that gospel teaches that those who are saved become the church. Therefore, the tribulation saints would now be waiting for a rapture because they are the church to be raptured also.
Absurdity.
Gods wrath is in the lake of fire. Of course the church doesn't go there.
It all happens on the final day of the Lord..
Rapture doctrine comes from John Nelson Darby of the Plymouth Brethren.
Fellow heirs of the Promise to Israel.
Ephesians 3:6 KJV
That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:
Church is the Children of Abraham
Galatians 3:7-9 KJV
Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham. [8] And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed. [9] So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.
There was the gospel of the kingdom, before the atonement of the cross.
There is the gospel of salvation according to Paul.
There will be the everlasting gospel in the 7year tribulation for the tribulation saints.
Would you say Chuck Missler has a Calvinist leaning?
The comment above is solid. I haven’t seen much of him (I’ll check him out), but just beware of terms misdefined like “elect,” “predetermined,” “foreknowledge,” and others like that. If he ever brings up any ideas surrounding TULIP or the idea of a “genuine” faith or true/false conversion; those are signs to watch for. Calvinism can be sneaky, so be careful who you listen to!!
- Trent
I agree with the pre tribulation rapture as the only sound biblical view.
the resurrection of dead proves pre tribulation rapture is a lie.
You need to read that verse again because it says what day ? The coming of the Lord it doesn’t say rapture it doesn’t say anything BUT THE COMING OF THE LORD praying the Holy Spirit reveals to you
The book of Rev says the 1st resrctn contains those bhedded by the antchrst, so pretrib is impossible
Amen
If we aren't appointed to wrath, and the great tribulation is God's wrath. Then why are there tribulation saints going through the wrath?
They evidently believe in Christ after the rapture event.
- Trent
@BibleLine But no believer is appointed to God's wrath
Well, believers in that day still aren’t appointed to His wrath. The tribulation is particular to the Jewish nation. Nonetheless, other nations are involved.
Scripture is clear that believers will be targeted and beheaded during that time. That’s not God’s appointing. That’s Satan’s doing.
- Trent
exactly the great tribulation is satans wrath
Although God did not appoint us to wrath. It does not say he will save us from the tribulation.
As a matter of fact. In John 16:33 it says we will have tribulation.
They asked Jesus in Matthew 24. When is the sign of your coming?
Jesus begins to say that there will be wars and rumors of wars, pestilence and earthquakes in divers places, etc. He said but the end is not yet.
He then states there will be false christs that arises and the son of perdition will appear. According to verse 15.
In verse 29 it says: IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE TRIBULATION of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
In verse 30 is says and THEN shall the sign be of the son of man in heaven.
In verse 31 it says: And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
This is the rapture here because it has parallels to 1 Thessalonians 4:16,17: For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
Interesting that when the 6 seal is broken. The sun goes dark and the moon turns to blood. This is when Jesus is coming back for his elect.
If you read the last few verses of Revelation chapter 6, right before the 7 seal is broken it says: This is the day of Gods Wrath. That means the first 5 or 6 seals was not Gods wrath, because its starting on the 7th seal.
I use to believe in pre trib rapture but i dont see the evidence of this. I believe we are going to be here for the tribulation but will be raptured out before Gods wrath is poured out.
How much i would like to believe we can escape harsh persecution and escape a horrible tribulation. I just dont see it in the scriptures.
It doesn't really make any sense for Jesus to warn his followers about his return and the the tribulation and signs that precede his coming, if all believers were just gonna get raptured before any of that stuff comes. Pre trib rapture is just wishful thinking
@@freegracetruth77
its more than just wishful thinking. it is a very popular doctrine that is causing a great falling away.
it is a doctrine that causes people to receive not the love of the truth.
2 Thes. 3
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
.
@@LastDaySaintJames I wouldn't go that far. A lot of people who believe the pretrib rapture are saved believers who have believed solely on Christ. However, they are doctrinally deceived. Jesus told the disciples about the persecutions and problems that would arise in the end times for a reason. He wouldn't tell them that if they were just gonna get raptured out. However, I don't think pretrib rapture is causing a "falling away" from the faith. If im not mistaken, The greek word used for the "falling away" is apostasia, which is apostasy. The pre-trib christians aren't apostates who renounced the faith and are now blaspheming and hating God. Moreover, the passage you used about God sending strong delusion is something that will happen in the end times, when the anti christ is revealed and will begin to decieve people through his ability to perform miracles and wonders. It doesn't refer to the pretrib rapture.
2 thessalonians 2:9-11
**Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,**
And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
@@freegracetruth77
ok, you say they are doctrinally 'deceived'.
now notice, the very verses that are talking about the timing of the coming of the Lord and our gathering unto him is in the same chapter which speaks directly about those who are 'deceived'.
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
LET NO MAN DECEIVE YOU
YOU SAID THEY ARE 'DECEIVED'
SO NOW THEY ARE DECEIVED and DISOBEDIENT.
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
ARE PEOPLE WHO BELIEVE A LIE THE SAME AS THOSE WHO BELIEVE THE TRUTH?
12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
the deceived take great pleasure in the unrighteous teaching of a pre tribulation rapture.
they celebrate that lie more than they celebrate the coming of the Lord, WHEN HE COMES IN THE CLOUDS WITH POWER AND GLORY, which comes after tribulation, after the signs in the sun, moon and stars
they want to be REMOVED 7 years before the coming of the Lord?
THEY MIGHT JUST GET WHAT THEY WANT
ENOCH
The words of the blessing of Enoch, wherewith he blessed the elect and righteous, who will be living in the day of tribulation, when all the wicked and godless are to be removed.
.
@@LastDaySaintJames So according to you ? Belief in Pretribulation rapture = unsaved ? What exactly do you believe about a saved person ? I believe a saved person is one who has believed solely on Jesus Christ's promise of everlasting life. There are many people who have believed on Christ for this promise, and are therefore saved, who are advocating for a pre trib rapture. Just because someone believes the gospel, it doesn't mean they cannot be doctrinally deceived in some other area. In fact, most of us might actually fallen into this category at some point and have misinterpreted something in the bible. Nobody has perfect theology. Thats why its important to correct these mistakes. So just because someone believes pre trib, im not gonna start calling them unsaved just because of that. Whether or not a person is saved hinges on whether they have believed the record God gave of his son.
I mean Jesus says clear as day it after the anti Christ has arrived and after the tribulation. It says it clear as day in Mark 13. If all of the believers will be gone before the tribulation, then why would Jesus say he will gather his elect after the tribulation?
”And then if any man shall say to you, Lo, here is Christ; or, lo, he is there; believe him not: for false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect. But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things. But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken. And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.“
Mark 13:21-27 KJV
Also btw I am very clear in the Gospel. Salvation through Grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone. And righteousness has always been by faith.
Fair question. We personally believe many will come to faith in Christ after the rapture. The 144,000 being a part of that group. We see the rapture as pertaining to the church being caught up to meet the Lord in the clouds as mentioned in 1 Thess. 4 and 1 Cor. 15. I understand many of free grace teaching disagree, but that’s okay. Let us share the good news faithfully!
- Trent
@@lacetheace9664
I agree with you.
Mat. 24, Mark 13 and Luke 21, all agree with you.
the only ones who disagree with you are those who oppose God and His Holy Word.
@@BibleLine
OF COURSE, THE BIBLE CLEARLY SAYS THE ALIVE BELIEVERS GET CAUGHT UP
IM THE CLOUDS, BUT WITH A LITTLE FOCUS APPLIED WHEN YOU READ, 1 THES. 4 GIVES ALL THE INFORMATION YOU NEED.
VERSE 14, SAYS HE BRINGS THE DEAD WITH HIM
VERSE 15 CLEARLY SAYS WE WHICH ARE ALIVE AND REMAIN 👉UNTO THE COMING OF THE LORD 👈
THIS DOES NOT SAY, UNTO 7 YEARS BEFORE THE COMING OF THE LORD.
VERSE 16 SAYS WHEN JESUS DESCENDS FROM HEAVEN, HE RAISES THE DEAD FIRST.
WHEN DOES JESUS TEACH HE RAISES THE DEAD?
John 6: 44
44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
AT THE LAST DAY ....
AFTER HE RAISES THE DEAD AT THE LAST DAY
THEN COMES VERSE 17
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
what genious is responsible for claiming the resurrection of the dead and the alive being caught up in the clouds
AT THE LAST DAY, AT THE COMING OF THE LORD ...
... when the SON OF MAN is seen coming in the clouds with power and glory, after tribulation and after the signs in the sun moon and stars
COMES ..
7 YEARS BEFORE THE COMING OF THE LORD?
pre tribulation rapture doctrine comes from a lack of reading skills and a lack of understanding.
.
And isn't it accurate to say that there actually IS no rapture if Christ only comes @ the END of the tribulation? I mean, just where would believers be taken TO if we're "raptured/gathered"? That position scrubs heaven from our future, & makes no room for the Bema Judgment, nor the marriage to the Lamb. There's o/issues with that position too that I just don't see being reconciled by the Word.
IT IS WRITTEN
Revelation 16: 15-17
15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.
Armageddon is the marriage supper.
Kman... this Last Day Saint James keeps getting weirder. First, he believes we don't go to the Father’s House, and now Armageddon is the Rapture? He also rejects we are already dwelling in Heaven BEFORE the saints even show up. See Revelation 13:6... the Mark shows up at end of Revelation 13...
@@Pre-Tribulation Heaven...just one of those "MINOR" details in our future, 'eh?
@@Kman. we will take it!!!!! Maranatha
The fallen away happens first. Then the man of sin is revealed. Don’t be deceived by anyone.
There’s a fair case to be made regarding the “falling away” being the rapture as well as “what withholdeth” being the Holy Spirit.
- Trent
@@BibleLine That makes no sense to say the rapture can’t happen till the rapture happens. Or the first resurrection can’t happen till the first resurrection happens. The fallen away is apostasy. Believers leaving the faith. Is what fallen away means.
So when it comes to the Holy Spirit. What do you think that means? So which is your strongest case for a PREtrib rapture? A clear scripture that proves The PREtrib rapture?
I’m unsure if this is a profitable conversation seeing as though you desire to derail us on a prophetic topic. How do you believe a person is saved into eternal life?
- Trent
@@BibleLine Well many see or hear the word eternal and they automatic believe that they can never lose salvation. But biblical speaking. Jesus Christ is Eternal Life. You don’t become Eternal life we have Eternal Life. We have Jesus. If you want proof that Jesus Christ is Eternal Life I’ll be happy to show you. I actually have a video on this. So God is Eternal he doesn’t have a birthday. We do, we are everlasting. So again you don’t become Eternal. You have Jesus Christ as soon as we accept him. And to answer your question. We must believe in The Lord Jesus. And we have Eternal life. Can we lose Jesus? Is the question. Yes
@@BibleLine
ruclips.net/video/n4QHmXt7LBE/видео.html
Eternal Life scriptures
I heard that God's grace is removed during 7 year period. Everyone must go through physical death-wages of sin. If raptured then we physically age to die in 1000 year period-?-.babies allowed to live & willfully choose Jesus-?-. Conjecture.
Hello
The rapture is the catching up to meet Jesus as he descends earth at the second coming
The Christian hope is not to “go to heaven” but to inherit the earth made new
When a royal visitor or important figure would come you would go out to meet them and escort them into the city
Jesus is coming to the earth to rule the nations with believers
Believers will go up to meet him and descend to the earth with him
There is no pre second coming resurrection
The resurrection of believers is at the second coming
1 Cor 15
22 For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ.
Not before
The Christian hope is not to “go to heaven” but to inherit the earth made new
@Stress
Hello
Believe in the Lord Jesus whom God sent
What about 2 Thessalonians 2:1-3 seems to say the man of lawlessness will be revealed first
We believe the “falling away first” is the rapture event.
- Trent
I do believe in pre trib rapture, but I do possibly think this scripture is saying that the man of lawlessness will be revealed right before the rapture?
Well it says “a falling away first and that man of sin be revealed.”
We believe the force “letting” (hindering) is the Holy Spirit residing in believers (v7). He must be taken out of the way (rapture of believers) in order for the tribulation to commence.
This makes the most sense to us in light of the fact that Paul, Peter, James and John ALL wrote with his coming in mind. They did not write with the tribulation in mind as being the next event. Also 2 Thess. 2:1-2 literally separates one coming from another.
V. 1 - rapture (gathering unto him)
V. 2 - day of Christ (second coming in wrath and power - Matt 24 idea)
- Trent
I see what you are saying, so the falling away and revealing of the lawless one is before the day of the lord, not the gathering together of his saints
@@BibleLine
the falling away is the rapture event?
REALLY?
THEN WHAT IS OUR GATHERING TOGETHER UNTO HIM?
THE SCRIPTURE IS CLEAR.
OUR GATHERING TOGETHER SHALL NOT COME, EXCEPT THERE BE A FALLING AWAY FIRST.
OUR GATHERING AND THE FALLING AWAY ARE NOT AND WILL NEVER BE THE SAME THING.
.
The rapture is not a "coming". It is a departure. 2Thessalonians 2 is often greatly misunderstood.
I get your point, and we do dissociate the rapture from the second coming.
Nonetheless, we do depart to see Jesus in the clouds. He evidently comes to the clouds. 1 Thess 4.
- Trent
@@BibleLine
HOW DO YOU DISASSOCIATE THE RAPTURE FROM THE SECOND COMING WHEN OUR GATHERING TOGETHER IS TIED DIRECTLY TO HIS COMING BY THE SIMPLE WORD 'and'?
2 Thessalonians 2: 1-2
Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, that ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
NOTICE THE SCRIPTURE DONT SAY
WE BESEECH YOU BRETHREN, by our gathering together unto Him , and then after that, by the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ.
you must first twist scripture and put our gathering first, and the coming of the Lord second, for your lying doctrine to hold any truth.
CLEARLY, THE COMING OF THE LORD IS LISTED FIRST, AND OUR GATHERING IS SECOND.
SHAME ON YOU.
The rapture is iminent brothers and sisters pré tribulation...
Jesus Himself said multiple times that the resurrection of all the believers, that is the saved in Christ, will be on the LAST day.
And scriptures only teach two resurrections. One for eternal life. The second for eternal damnation.
What is it about the definition of the word "last" that Christians so called, do not understand?
Only a dishonest person, a deluded person or a deceiver, would redefine words in scripture to support false dogma.
the bible proves you wrong in 3 verses.
verse 15 - the coming of the Lord
verse 16 - the rapture
verse 17 - proof of when it shall be
Revelation 16: 15-17
15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.
your pre tribulation rapture doesn't exist.
The Rapture
The rapture will happen after the Antichrist is revealed. There is no one verse in the Bible which stated clearly, “The rapture will happen before the Antichrist is revealed”. But there is one verse which clearly stated, “that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed”. “That day” meaning “the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ” (the second coming) and “our being gathered to him” (the rapture) both will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness (the Antichrist) is revealed.
2 Thessalonians 2:1 Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers and sisters,
2 Thessalonians 2:2 not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by the teaching allegedly from us -whether by a prophecy or by word of mouth or by letter -asserting that the day of the Lord has already come.
2 Thessalonians 2:3 Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction.
For sure Jesus Christ can keep us from the trial that is going to come, but the rapture of the whole true followers of Jesus Christ will be after the Antichrist is revealed.
Revelation 3:10 Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come on the whole world to test the inhabitants of the earth.
The Antichrist will be revealed when the one who now holds it back is taken out of the way.
2 Thessalonians 2:7 For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way.
2 Thessalonians 2:8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming.
There is no one verse in the Bible which clearly stated the Church is the restrainer. The Spirit of God has held back lawlessness of human hearts for 120 years before the flood, same Spirit can hold back the lawlessness of the end time generation. As an example, the Spirit can use Islam also to hold back the lawlessness of gender (LGBT movement) while many churches are compromised.
Philippians 3:15 All of us, then, who are mature should take such a view of things. And if on some point you think differently, that too God will make clear to you.
Philippians 3:16 Only let us live up to what we have already attained.
The "rapture" is at the end of the tribulation.
Jesus said,
"Immediately after the distress of those days
'the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.'
At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn.
They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory.
And He will send His angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other."
Matthew chapter 24 verses 29-31
Yes. It is pre tribulation
Where is Jesus right now? How long is He expected to be there? Follow Him and it will be Crystal Clear when He arises!
Mark 16:19 So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.
Heb 10:12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
Heb 10:13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.
It said once He sat on the right hand of God He is expecting to be there until "his enemies be made his footstool." What causes that?
Psalms 110:1 A Psalm of David. The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.
Psalms 110:5 The Lord at thy right hand shall strike through kings in the day of his wrath.
Wrath Rev 16 look after the 6th vial has been poured
Rev 16:12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.
Still hasn't came yet!
Rev 16:15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
The Greek words for Wrath is Orgay' and Thumos
Orgay' G3709
1Th 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrathG3709, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
Thumos G2372
Rev 16:1 And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrathG2372 of God upon the earth.
We are Not appointed to Orgay'... Thumos will Pass Over us, like the same way that the Jews in Egypt when the plague fell it Passed Over them!
Here is when He arises, but is there a Footstool first?
Psalms 132:7 We will go into his tabernacles: we will worship at his footstool.
Psalms 132:8 Arise, O LORD, into thy rest; thou, and the ark of thy strength.
Psalms 132:9 Let thy priests be clothed with righteousness; and let thy saints shout for joy.
Eschatology = G2078 eschatos
extreme
last in time or in place
last in a series of places
last in a temporal succession
the last
last, referring to time
of space, the uttermost part, the end, of the earth
of rank, grade of worth, last i.e. lowest
eschatos G2078 Last
John 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the lastG2078 day.
John 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the lastG2078 day.
John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the lastG2078 day.
John 6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the lastG2078 day.
Jesus is
Rev 22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the lastG2078 Eschatos.
Why did He say this?
Matt 8:20 And Jesus saith unto him, The foxes have holes, and the birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay his head.
The Jew rejected being the body and the Gentiles wasn't allowed in yet, He had nowhere to lay His head.
But now He does!
1Corin 12:27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.
Do you realize... if the church is removed before the tribulation then NOBODY is saved after that because a good tree produces good fruit. I can lie and say that means nobody gets saved for 7 years. But, at the minimum that means nobody gets saved for 3.5 years until the 144,000 come to earth.
Here's the key. Peter asked Jesus... Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?
Jesus responded: I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.
Notice what Jesus did NOT say... He did NOT say:
1. 490 TIMEs
2. seventy times seven TIMEs
3. four hundred four score and ten TIMEs
Jesus was not referring to a number of TIMEs to forgive. Jesus was referring to Daniel's 70 weeks... seventy times seven. Jesus was telling Peter forgiveness ENDS at Daniels 70 weeks.
So, if the saints are raptured before the 70th week starts then forgiveness would END at the Rapture because nobody would be left to give the gospel to anybody ... until the 144,000 showed up at the Abomination of Desolation. There is no 3.5 year gap of nobody getting saved, however.
Next, the pre-trib Rapture is popular because it robs Jesus of glory.
Jesus gets glory when people die. He gets glory when they die and go to hell. He gets glory when they die and go to heaven. OH!!!! EXCEPT if you make it to the Rapture! That violates scripture. It is appointed unto man to die ONCE... except if you are one of the lucky chosen ones who survives the tribulation. THEN you will NEVER die.
Do you realize... that's nothing more than the first lie told in the bible?
And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die...
Israel is not what you think.
Exodus 4:22 KJV
And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the Lord, Israel is my son, even my firstborn:
Hosea 11:1 KJV
When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt.
He is the promise to Abraham and his seed.
Its a seed of faith!!!
It’s none of those as it is a modern doctrine made up in the late 19th century by British preacher named JOhn Nelson Darby based in a dream of some teenage girl who hollered out during one of his sermons. It’s a man made invention. Turn away from it. If you want truth, check out the Miracle if the Sun in 1917 in Fatima, Portugal.
Forgive me, but you really haven't read up too much on the matter. You're apt at parroting false narratives, because what you said is as _FAAAAAR_ from truth, as the east is from the west. Goodness, a cursory search will silence that story line, so either...
*A.* You've not even taken the time to research it y/self, or
*B.* You're fully aware, but you're content on repeating the lies. Which is it?
Goodness, going back just a few years from your false claim, in *1700, there was a fellow who spent the last *THIRTY YEARS OF HIS LIFE* in prison for a pamphlet he published, where he said that *DEATH* could be avoided...it was not obligatory, and man be be translated. We can go as far back as you'd like to refute your nonsensical statements, even to the church fathers if you'd like?
But _BEYOND_ what even THEY would have to say, it's the BIBLE that the pre-tribulation rapture is tethered to. So if you'd like to bring an argument from any eschatological passage, please do so, because what you had to say is worth little to nothing. Not trying to be unkind, just sayin'.
This man is deceived, of course we are not appointed unto wrath.
Jesus raptures His church after the tribulation, this man has confused like most the tribulation with the wrath of God.
We shall be raptured after the tribulation, and then the wrath of God will be poured out, not before.
This man's teaching, is from Satan to make many Christian believe that they will not suffer during the tribulation, because they are not prepared to suffer any hardship due to these fakes teachers. This teaching teaches escapology instead of eschatology. Jesus can not rapture the Church until the dead in Christ are caught up first, then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up to meet them in the air. When will this happen? Jesus tells us 4 times in John 6 AT THE LAST DAY. Check it out for your self.
Im mid trib