I feel Cluth claw gave us the best way a practical human being can get close to a Bigass monster which are always moving faster being bigger.. the Worse thing is wirebugs in Rise and monster riding.. Monster riding removed the ELEGANCE, the Attitude & personality of monster.. Like really ( Riding shagaru magala, Rajang, riding on wind lord Kushala itself fyck off )
@@SpadeApeiron No mechanic should directly affect damage numbers as the game becomes inevitably balanced around it and the mechanic is forced on you. The Clutch Claw should have only increased partbreak damages or been a reasonably powerful attack, which would have felt more of a reward for getting the opening. The Clutch Claw can shatter from the get-go Kulve Taroth's arms and chest gold armor and is the only way to safely punish Alatreon's floor is ice attack. The Clutch Claw should have been focused on stuff like that rather than tenderizing hitzones, which doesn't make sense as clutch claw attacks are average damage at best, why are your regular high damaging attacks not tenderizing too?
@@johan9428 Yea good point ~ Clutch claw mechanic should have had limited uses and when it used tactically it'd be like our SUPER move. in case of safijiva we have to use Clutch claw to partbreak. without clutchclaw Safijiva quest can never be completed..
How iceborne ruined this channel The expansion was enjoyable, one of the biggest expansions sold in gaming, millions of people love it, except a guy on here who felt like whining about a gimmic in a game where shotguns can be made from a hide of a monster
@@brianleal87 I disagree with Heavy Wings saying that the clutch claw ruined the entire game as I still like it a lot for everything else. But he is right when he says that the tenderizing mechanic is a neat negative which brings nothing good to the gameplay, only makes it more tedious for the sake of it. The tenderizing mechanic is viewed by most players as the worst thing to have ever been implemented in MH. I would personally be fine with the clutch claw without the tenderizing mechanic and all the balancing around it. But the tenderizing mechanic? I hope we never see it or something similar ever again in future games.
I wonder if the clutch claw's importance was a result of a lack of focus on singleplayer testing. I felt it was a lot less overbearing when the task of softening was shared between more players. Though to be honest I didn't mind the clutch claw all that much and enjoyed iceborne a lot despite it.
That is a good point. In four players, 1 clagger = 4 tenderized spots. As a solo player, you get one and it is notl like you will have access to this tenderized spot non-stop.
I was elemental LBG main in worlds and unless u have some1 softening the right parts for ranged damage u will go 2-4 times per fight to camp to restock ammo or run around farming....
You bring up good points but overall, I still like Iceborne's combat more than Sunbreak, because of Rise / Sunbreak's over reliance on counters. You mentioned you like more grounded combat and Rise is very very far from grounded combat, it made hunters feel like superheroes. Not to mention wyvern riding removed the threat of having 2 monsters on the map by making them essentially just a free damage boost instead.
I prefer world's grounded combat and speed, but I really dislike the clutch claw. I have over 1300 hours in iceborne but you'll never see me defend the clutch claw. Sunbreak has its thing with being really fast paced and frontloading a lot of the weapons most powerful attacks to silkbinds, but as a whole I vastly prefer wirebugs over the clutch claw, even though for mh6 I hope they got rid of both. Mh6 should just have world's grounded combat with sunbreaks switch skills and I'll be happy
@@WisdomAkpan211 no, I agree, I didnt like that the clutch claw tenderize because it became mandatory. If it was just an optional damage boost mechanic that hunters can do, it would have been better. Wirebugs was implemented properly by being a core mechanic, however, it made the whole game to become a DPS fest instead. With almost every weapon having a counter, hunters didnt mind their positioning much anymore, in fact for some of the strongest weapons, they want the monster hit them so they can shortcut into their strongest attacks which to me was kinda backwards thinking. In older games we were rewarded for knowing proper positioning, knowing the monsters AOE but instead in Rise we press a button just before a monster hits and we get rewarded with even more damage. Overall, I have the same sentiments. Keep only the grounded stuff and bake them into the weapon movesets, remove the silkbind moves (especially the shortcuts which ignore the resource mechanics of weapns and the counters because not every weapon should have a counter IMO) and no clutch claw and claggers (slinger could stay or not, clutch claw could become its own weapon). Having switch skills (not switch skill swap) would expand the movesets too without making the controls too complicated and we can kinda make our own "Styles" but nothing to drastic from the core of the weapons themselves.
@forlogic53 I was looking for the best comment I could find so that I could respond. I agree with your comment in almost every way. But my agreement is primarily about how you articulated the way that IB 'feels' versus Rise. You are absolutely right about how wirebugs changed weapons AND the hunts themselves. Positioning, timing, knowledge of your weapons' capabilities, etc are what made world spectacular. Nothing is the same in rise. (Hell, any time you can pick up a SnS and it has more base raw than a hammer of the same rarity you have a problem). I only disagree with ppl who do think claw inhibits the flow. I started with the franchise in MHW so cluth claw has always been integrated into my playstyle. I just dislike its' inaccuracy.
I tend to agree, and to be honest, Rise’s combat just wasn’t for me. However, like the video said, it was like that from the beginning. No bait and switch.
I think the biggest issue with the clutch claw is tenderizing. If it had been a tool to grab on for an extra hit with some weapons and for blademaster weapons to get easier hits on flying monsters, I think that would have been a great addition. Wallbangs are a more gray area in quality, but I think they're cool. I think they should have been nerfed though.
In a sense yeah, but even without the tenderising the claw is just weirdly implemented. The aiming not really working, only some weapons having integrated combos, being thrown off constantly etc. It was not a good idea to add it in the expansion.
@@HeavyWings Personally, I had little issue with the Claw. Sure it adds tenderizing but as a SnS player often unless I get more chances to do it, I'm better off just finding the other spots to whack a monster. Times I use the claw are -avoid an attack -tenderize specific monster spots over time to make certain stuff easier to do, such as Rajang legs in case I just wish to add damage in. -Extra damage on a fleeing monster -The Wallbang. I will say though the big swords should of gotten faster animations for their big tenderizers. I still prefer the clutch over Wirebugs though anyday. Personally find then very clunky and it wasn't until freaking Narwa that I figured out how they work. Even then, I don't get the shifts, I see people abuse it and get slapped to death, and it ain't my cup of tea. There's also nothing quite like Alatreon shredding through your mantle when you clutch his head and mercing you. That's a fun anti-claw thing and it naturally plays in with finding openings on the guy.
@@Ramotttholl I actually don't like mounting in Rise either, and it ties into the general dislike of Wirebugs. I really enjoyed the actual strat of mounting the Monster for a good knockdown in World. Now it's just yeeting around and stuff Edit; should clarify its specifically the stamina contest. Alatreon and Fatalis are pretty fun to hop on but a mistake can potentially ruin the attempt. Those dashes are brutal.
Credit where credit is due: The Clutch Claw made fighting certain monsters (*COUGH* KIRIN *COUGH*) actually fun and bearable. Bouncing off of Kirin when it was enraged was not fun. With the clutch claw, all we had to do was make sure to keep it tenderized. It certainly beat trying to aim for the horn in vain.
As a Lance main, the counter clutch claw move was pure heaven. Just waiting like a Matadore against a charging bull, only to slam right back against their face with KO inducing force. Granted, the application and sheer necessity did get old.
The poor integration between all the weapons is the reason why Lance is my favorite weapon in World. The counter feels actually integrated into the moveset and helps keeps the uptime on tenderization without breaking the flow, and the super armor is something all the weapons should have had
You also have a def boost and a resistance to being thrown off if you "counter grab" but i main lance and i will be honest it keep you from sharpening alots
Insect glaive had a kinda similar system where you would be flying to reposition anyways, so instead of descending thrust you can descending clutch. Kinda still sucked because you need to tenderize twice
The Clutch Claw is why I installed the Iceborne Community Edition (ICE) mod. The modders rebalanced the game to make the CC an optional tool and not mandatory by restoring hitzone values and reducing the effectiveness of softening.
I do mention that mod near the end of the video. I would download it but I want to beat Iceborne as it is at least one more time because the mod rebalances a lot of things.
@@chadderbug7587 same. I have 6k+ hours in World, and honestly, 4u is probably my favorite next to FU. I remember thinking a few hundred hours in, "I'm not enjoying this like the others," and that was _before_ the clutch claw. I find I liked MH more as a hunting sim-like. There are videos on how Hunting "lost" its roots that are great teachers of the old ways. I'm rare enough as a PSP solo player convert, but those even fewer I met as PS2 adopters from first and second gen... that would have been my paradise.
Never realized the clutch claw wasn't part of the base game, I just remember not spamming it as much back when I played it on my brother's PS4, and thinking why I didn't use it as much. Probably cause it didn't exist lol.
The mandatory tenderizing is what kills me about clutch claw. They can incorporate clutch claw in different ways but instead they made the hunt more of a chores.
@@Knights_of_the_Nine i think you played a different game if you think clutch claw auto stagger the monster. Not only they nerf some jewel so they can incorporate tenderizing to the skill, they also ruin the flow of combat by adding clagger to the monster. And no, I can't pretend the clutch claw is not there if my damage output got downscale because i don't tenderize the monster.
@ilham adi gunawan The only way your damage is "downscaled" by the claw is the WEX nerf. Seeing it as a nerf if you don't use it (instead of a buff if you do) is a pessimistic attitude, which of course would lead you to hate it. And face it, WEX is OP and needed a nerf. Even if you don't use the claw at all, it's still the best skill in the game. And if you try to say that the nerfed hitzones are a way your damage was downscaled, nerfed monster hitzones to try and force the claw is really just... not a thing. I'm sorry, it's just not. To my knowledge, no base game monsters actually had their hitzones significantly changed going into Iceborne, at least not to the extent to make claw "required" (which it never was). What DID happen was that some monster SUBSPECIES like Coral Pukei-Pukei and Acidic Glavenus ended up with worse overall hitzones than their base species, but that usually happens with subspecies anyway. Plus, even then, those monsters still always had one or more hitzones that was able to get the first part of WEX that didn't require the claw, just like every other monster. This isn't even mentioning that World was the first game with single player scaling. Outside of base World, Iceborne at the time was literally the easiest MH game to solo, claw or not. And claggers REALLY don't happen that often at the endgame of Iceborne. Title Update monsters especially almost NEVER clagger, and Fatalis doesn't even have one at all. You're lucky if you get a single clagger to happen on a Rajang or Alatreon. I could go on, but unless you want to continue the discussion, I won't bother you with a longer comment lol. (EDIT: I have now actually seen proof that hitzone nerfs were indeed a thing in Iceborne and now feel dumb for claiming they weren't lol. I still maintain my opinion though that they weren't severe enough to make tenderizing "mandatory." The most severe nerfs from what I can tell were on already easy monsters like Pukei-Pukei and Tobi-Kadachi. But something like Rathalos and Rathian's heads were only nerfed by around 5, which isn't a huge difference on an already great hitzone.)
@@Andrew-hz5zc firstly, i don't know ehat WEX is, sorry haha And for your other take, it's fair but the general gist I'm getting at is i still feel even though statistical and system wise it's a minor nerfs, it's still bugs me that everytime my TCS hit, there's a small amount of different in the damage number if i tenderize it or not. And everytime the monster got to clagger state, i always miss my hit because the state itself demands the player to at least cluch to the monster, either to wallbang it or to tenderize it (or to reset the clagger timer), not to mention how far the monster position are before and while in clagger state. It's aggravating at least for me, and i love my ooga booga big TCS number lol
now that i see the lance CC move it makes me think of that one meme with the a dude slowly approaching you with his arm in an open state. and now i'll never unsee it
The wall bangs and attacks weapons got were what I liked about the clutch claw. But the forced tenderizing and being required to do certain things with it for specific monsters got very tedious. So I love the idea of the claw, it’s just the implementation of it is at best mixed.
@@brownboy1468 if we don’t like it, we don’t like it. Simple as. It’s a fucking boring and annoying tool to use. And I don’t like having to stop what I’m doing to tenderize some part or else I’ll miss out on big damage. Don’t tell us to stop complaining over literal personal opinions.
@@brownboy1468 Look, I don’t think cc is a huge deal most of the time either and for most monsters, I think it can be largely ignored. But…take a look at a monster like Safi’Jiiva, or Fatalis, these monsters have huge health pools and tiny time limits in comparison to the rest of the monsters. If you don’t use the cc for these monsters, which offer some of the best gear in the game, more likely than not you will NOT be winning and by proxy, not be able to acquire some of the best end game gear
The slinger itself was fine, I especially loved catching endemics and making pets of them, but yeah, needing to tenderize and wall bash every single monster was a chore.
So true. I loved the pets and just got addicted to trying to get all the crowns. Lol. But tenderizing is definitely a chore. Especially on Safi’jiiva. Good grief is that fight just overly tedious.
@@Slepepeit's was? All I can remember is people failing the mission cause they choose to put tenderizing above their own future. Ain't that the reason it gets mad and well... attacks you without chill? So you can't depend on it and actually play the game with the damage you get without tenderizing
@@Cataclysm999 I played the entire game and 100% it without the claw I maybe used it a hand full of times at the very start of the game in the test area, hell I still don't know how to tenderize to this day nor wall bang you can act like it doesn't exist and still be able to do all the content like no joke I've been able to do the hardest hunts in the game solo without ever using the claw the only use I found from it was shooting stuff out of it to keep the monster from fleeing and shooting a environment piece like the huge rock falling.
I only use the claw to hitch a ride on the monster when he is running away then I hop off when low stam. CB user here and I don't need to tenderize shiiiiiet.
Im a switch blade user and I love the clutch claw. Yes it is kind of annoying to miss or my attacks get canceled but i just try harder or figure out another strategy to use my abilities more often.
I played through World and Iceborne on both PC and PS4. On PS4 I got World at launch, played it extensively, and then picked it up again once Iceborne came out. Upon starting Iceborne, the absolute tank that was Beotodus really slapped me in the face. I couldn't believe how big of a jump it was in difficulty from base World! I then played Iceborne even more extensively than I did World. And around the time Fatalis launched I had built myself a PC and was working my way through a PC save of World. Once I got to Iceborne I remembered how much of a tanky bastard Beotodus was and bracing myself for another 20 minute hunt. But that's not what happened. All my time playing Iceborne on PS4 had made me more than adept at using the clutch claw and flinch shot to their full effectiveness, and since I was playing on PC with both lances and hammers, my weapons of choice meshed extra well with it. I ended up taking down Beotodus just as fast as any other hunt in Iceborne, tacking a couple minutes onto the timer to account for my usage of high rank equipment. The difference between using the claw and not using it is very, very easily felt, and it's a night and day difference unfortunately.
I went through the same process, except i went from Xbox to ps4. I also remember struggeling in a long drawn out battle with Beotodus the first go. The second go round was smooth. Though I honestly don't believe it was from the clutch claw. When I first fought Beo, I was not only new to the monster. But also new to the damage, speed and health it had. I struggled to recognize openings because I wasn't used to the snow. I struggled in all aspects. The second time we met, I was fully comfortable with every element of that fight. Whether i used the clutch claw or not, it was going to go smoothly because I was at a COMPLETELY different skill level then I was the first time. I came into that fight better prepared mentally and also better equipped.
i can agree but most fights were generally 20mins. so if it didn't exist you be forced into a 20 min hunt. it just makes it easier. also to me it never felt needed hell i rarely even noticed the difference
The clutch claw looks like it should have just been a gap closer. Like it could be used to move with the monster for certain attacks like greatsword charges.
I totally agree, the best part of the clutch claw was the attacks it gave some weapons, I love Greatsword, gunlance, Lance and Hammer to begin with so it was a really nice edition. I hated tenderizing monsters and everything else around it though.
I didn't ay many weapons in World, but I liked that you could combo into a clutch grab with the hammer pretty easily. Then there's IG. I hated and always avoided the claw. It was horribly difficult to aim from the air, so it didn't matter that you could use it airborne lol. I never got the muscle memory down of clicking the stick to swap to clutch claw, so I'd end up sheathing first. It wasn't til endgame of Iceborne that I felt really forced to tenderize
wirebugs made the game so piss easy to deal big chunks of damage consistently through the arts and risk free with the insane movement, I don't get how anyone can stand behind them.
Its fun to use compared to klutch claw and give many differents way to use a weapon which I feel World kinda lack, I like World btw both games got flaws. Rise main problem is the base game monsters are kinda not balanced enough around Wirebug's mobility and firepower but Sunbreak do fix that with some monsters having some moves that you need to use wirebugs mobility to dodge their attacks, just a bit scummy how you need to pay a dlc to play the better version of the game but welp its Capcom...
Wirebugs are very easy to use compared to the claw and boost the speed of play similarly to generations Clutch claw had the consistency of a crane machine claw. They gave you a free clutch claw stagger because it was literally that awkward to use
I'll take a mechanic that's designed for each weapon to make unique use of that cleanly fits into the games combat and is essentially an extension of each weapon's moveset vs a slow, janky, barely functional grappling hook with bad auto aim that barely half the weapons have any interaction with through their normal moveset
Absolutely, I really dislike both of those mechanics. It's also one of the reasons why I didn't really connect with Rise. In Rise you feel more like some superhero/demigod than a Hunter.
@robinmattheussen2395 I know, monsters are punching bags most of the time, and barely any preparation before the quest, no bombs, no meat, traps, flash bombs, just beat it until it dies.
@@anrc5439 no preparation before quests started with world though, i never prepared for quests in base world because it was such a joke difficulty wise, only used flash bombs on like 2 annoying monsters and forgot about bombs and traps altogether outside of capture quests, not to mention things like movi g while healing and the pathetic damage monsters deal make you feel like a demigod.
@@anrc5439Idk man, the monsters had a massive speed boost in rise and especially in sunbreak. The 90% of Iceborne's roster ain't adapted to the clutch claw.
I love World as it is, but your analyisis on the clutch claw is pretty fair. I think it would be better if they added the mounting mechanics to the clutch claw. For example, if the monster attacks, instead of it making you instanly fall off, it would drain your stamina quickly unless you hold on to the monster. And you can tenderize as many parts as you want for the amount of stamina you have.
I know this is an old video, but I am a new player who just got through all of base world with 2 other friends and while the cc felt fine through most of it, as soon as I got to iceborne, I noticed the MESS of design that is the fact that you are supposed to tenderize before being able to do pretty much any damage while also making all the new mobs super fast and reducing all forms of cc you'd use in the base game. It felt like the entire game was made insuferably frustrating and more boring just to force me to use a tool that I already had a mentality of "I need to learn this tool jsut ot have it, even though I don't have to" before. What a mess of a decision, and having 99% of comments online be copium sniffing "no, the game is perfect you're just bad, git gud" stuff is nothing but toxic. The cc didn't ruin iceborn for me, although the combination of forced tenderization, faster monsters, insane healthpools and frustratingly un-stoppable mobs that constantly cc you back almost made me quit the franchise forever. Had I not had the cool head to realize that this might just be one wall and I need to push through and the entire game/franchise may not be like this, I'd prlly left MH forever at barioth. Cue all the answers to this comment being like "no, you're just bad, git gud"
@@drxavier1870 World is also my first MH game and the moment I set foot in iceborne i said "this feels extremely poor, design wise". Had pretty pleasant experience in base world while iceborne felt so bad, still does. The large increase in HP, mandatory tenderizing, having to wallbang to get the damage in, the fact monsters are so fast that if you play slow weapon (I play CB) you have to wait for an opening which at times takes extremely long (which ties into poor design of massive HP and mandatory tenderizing) unless you create that opening with wallbang or do a 1 attack punish (at most 2) after you learn the moveset of the enemy. Now, learning moveset on your first attempt is not gonna happen, which is normal, so you aren't getting a lot of punishes, and the ones you do get result in very minimal damage overall (taking the entire HP into account, monster speed and their ability to stun you frequently since you don't know their moveset on your first attempt, and even few attempts after that). The amount of times I've said "Can I play the game please?" while going through iceborne is absurd. I don't think I've said that so many times in my 25 years of gaming, that's how poorly designed iceborne is in my opinion. As the good person above said, many might come and say "git gud" but that's just a phrase everyone throws nowadays. Played harder games than this, nothing wrong with not being good as a new player in the game, problem is when not being good in the game as a new player is tied to game being unfair with poor design (stunned into cart because on the same move that killed you, monster attacked after 2 seconds the first time, but second time it attacked after 4, since you decided to wait the full duration of getting up) and not your skill. The problem isn't getting gud, you get good by playing more and learning, problem is if gameplay itself isn't good/doesn't feel good, which is how iceborne feels. Apparently, to capcom, increasing the difficulty means this: Make monster extremely fast, give it large HP and make it attack non stop for 1-2 minutes. Again, you will find openings in those monsters after you have learned their moveset, but it's not a good design if only openings you find that aren't 1 attack punish for 50-100 damage on a 20k or more HP come after you have fought them enough to learn entire moveset. That's just poor design. They just made everything so fast/aggressive/relentless/tanky just because they screwed up and introduced new mechanics game didn't need in the first place (clutch claw/tenderizing). You can make the game harder without resorting to cheap and bad mechanics. So I am forced to wallbang a monster for big opening to do damage. Okay. I wallbang a monster, get my big damage in. Capcom's answer to this as a "balance" counterplay? Monster is now enraged for 45-60 seconds, where it's faster and more aggressive. That to me is the most lazy and uninspired design ever. Forcing me to use something that shouldn't have been in the game and I find not fun and good to use just because they didn't know how to make the game difficult in a proper way so they resorted to most bland option, make them extremely fast and tanky. Majority of iceborne monsters don't feel good to fight. They are just sponges that move at lightning speed and force you to use bad and unfun mechanics they added for god knows which reason. Anyway, base world was okay for the most part, iceborne is just a boring pushover with nothing really interesting in it.
@@BleedingMem0ry ok i disagree on the fight part theres some really fun monsters in World but yeah Clutch Claw is stupid because its forced but also meta. Agitator LvL is bassically manditory because the Monster is always enraged or on the floor. Im glad you see the issues though, most people just say Skill Issue or treat Iceborne like its the second coming of Jesus and perfection
@@drxavier1870 Yeah, there were a few fun fights. Problem is if there are 200 monsters in the game but only 5 of them are fun and the remaining 195 are dull, boring and annoying because they are practically the same, and the only difference between them is their size. Nothing is flawless in this world, if people treat this expansion as flawless they actually need to play more games instead of only playing this one. This is among most flawed games ever made, so I find it funny really that people call it flawless, I guess they don't know better and never played a game with really good design choices. Yeah, going in without agitator is just losing damage because of reasons you mentioned, absolutely correct. It's forced on the player, much like the poor design choice that is the clutch claw. Nice to see someone understands things and can point out the horrible decisions capcom made with iceborne.
in that old monster hunter world proto-demo, it featured part of the clutch claw, just the shooting ammo into the head thing. i see that that had plans for using it ever since that demo
The way you describe how Clutch Claw affects Iceborne reminds me of slag in Borderlands 2's Ultimate Vault Hunter Mode. Coincidentally both these can ruin the flow of combat if your build doesn't synergise with it and the game can become a slog if you don't use them.
Never had that much an issue with the clutch claw. I recently started Rise and noticed that the rhythm and weight of attacks feels much less impactful. And monsters tend to be quite relentless in attacks to the point of stunlocking me to cart. That barely ever happened in World. World had a slower methodical pace and I liked that a lot. A lot of Rise faster pace can be found in the Wirebug moves. A lot of them are dash, lunge or counter based. Makes sense but also means the rhythm is much less forgiving. That being said, I do see the argument of clutch law being not fully integrated. The idea fitted the more methodical style but it was kinda just aiming in the wrong direction. My gripe is a different one, with clutch claw anything regarding slingshot that was not triggering boulders to fall down became borderline useless. I liked using the slingshot as a tool in the arsenal. But most MR creatures had outright immunity. Behemoth was an entire fight dedicated to the slingshots functionality. That died with iceborne. Maybe a nerv had to be down. But I dont remember or caring what I shot at most wyverns as long as they took damage from what was falling down. It's a shame. One mechanic should replace the one established earlier in the same game. To me riding and clutch claw in iceborne is roughly the same as Wirebug riding in rise. Just with less agency over it. It's going to happen anyway and it's basically both a gloryfied qte. Jump moves were one of my favorites in world, especially when they ended in a ride. In Rise you can pull them of so easy they had to be nerfed into the ground. Which is a shame. I think if clutch claw was simply giving access to maneuver to and around a creature that would have been fine.
The only weapon that I really used the clutch claw with was my switch axe because it made it easier to get on the certain monster parts, and use its ability to do major damage to that one part specially if you wanted to cut tails off, it was pretty much the only weapon I need the clutch claw for.
The asmongold clowns in the comments are funny. 99% of them are skill issue with no argument or points afterwards. There is criticism then there is fair criticism. How sad his audience cant make a coherent argument.
Use the claw. Use the claw. Use the claw... Attempts to use the claw on a beastie flailing around... After three tries targeting the head, I end up on its hind leg and then I get damage, fireblight and poison from its mouth. Mm. Logical.
The biggest thing from when I started World to buying Iceborn, was that almost all my weapons would bounce off without tenderizing. You could fight a monster in the base game, have your attacks go through, then buy the DLC and then suddenly tenderizing was an integral mechanic.
I've always wondered why I didn't like the claw as much as I liked the wirebugs, and I realise it all comes down to tenderizing. I wholeheartedly believe I wouldn't love the wirebugs as much as I do if they kept the tenderizing mechanic. Sure, wirebugs are basically the claws taken to the extreme, but it's the fun part of that extreme. Instead of aiming a specific part of the monster, I can just zip onto or zip away wherever and whenever. Instead of tenderizing, we have silkbinds that are completely optional to use and are only mandatory for certain builds(the switchaxe counter is kinda important to build up the gauge in power phial switchaxes). In Sunbreak I can play like a traditional hunter, just a lot faster and more mobile, or utilise the bugs to their fullest potential. In Iceborne, the claw is a must. Anyways, that's why I don't like the claw I guess.
World was my first Monster Hunter, and Iceborne was fuckin' tight as fuck, but as soon as I got to Alatreon I started to realize that something had been nagging at me, and that was "Mandatory playstyle." I loved World because I could fuck around and still manage to beat the monsters. My friends and I had a lot of fun fighting random things, screaming, making armor, etc. None of us used the Slinger almost at all, save to flashbug monsters out of the air. But then the Clutch Claw came along. I didn't mind it at first, but it was like an itch I was sort of ignoring. I noticed that every single hunt started feeling exactly the same. Clutch claw tenderize, hit that part for 1 minute, wallbangs, claggers, etc., with our actual fighting being like 80% "Beat it up while it's on the ground after a wallbang." The game completely ceased feeling dynamic and just felt formulaic. No matter the monster, same routine. Clutch to its head, smash it into a wall, beat it up, bonus points if we put barrel bombs by the wall beforehand, tenderizing, etc. I started like, viscerally hating that if you weren't attacking the Tenderized part, you were doing like 25% damage, and sometimes would just clang off of them. It went from "Attack the part you're trying to break" or "Attack the head to try to get a stun" or "Attack the tail to cut it," to "Attack the tenderized part or you're wasting everyone else's time." Now that brings me to Alatreon. Why'd he make me realize the playstyle felt mandatory? Because after 300 attempts at Alatreon, my friends and I finally realized that it was basically mandatory to bring Fire weapons on two of us and Ice weapons on the other two, and we literally had to DPS-check break the horns at specific intervals or else we failed the hunt. The game was literally forcing us, very suddenly, to play a very specific way or we couldn't progress at all. That's when it all hit me like a ton of bricks. Alatreon's elemental weaknesses and the mandatory horn breaking, the Clutch Claw tenderizing and wallbangs, they weren't just "Do these to make the fight go faster," they were "Do these or you'll fail the hunt because there's no way you'll beat the DPS-checks or hunt timer otherwise." I only beat Fatalis one time in World, and that was it, I gave up after that, threw in the towel, and even though my friends kept playing for another full year I had completely lost interest in it because I do not like being punished for not utilizing mandatory gimmicks like the Clutch Claw, wallbanging and the Alatreon ice/fire/hornbreak gimmicks. A game like Monster Hunter is fun when the most important choices you make are what weapon fits your playstyle, what decorations you have and how much knowledge you have of a monster's attack patterns. But it rapidly screeches to a catastrophic twenty car pile-up of unfun-ness when the game very suddenly says "Alright idiot, here's a brand new gimmick, and if you don't use it and get good at using it and reuse it to weaken body parts on the monster literally every minute, you're a fucking idiot and you're gonna fail the hunt. Fuck you." So tldr: Improve your reading comprehension it's not the end of the world to take 1 minute and 45 seconds to read a comment.
I found ICE to be quite helpful. My main gripe with IB was the guiding lands since it was very grindy to get all the way to MR100 and level regions solo. The CC balancing made Ruiner much more enjoyable for me since trying to tenderize him felt extremely difficult. The only downside of ICE is that almost no other mods work with it.
ICE is good but it doesn't fix any of the problems I had with the game pre-Iceborne. Like how bad the stun effects are and other monsters constantly interrupting your hunts. It got really old really fast and it often feels like I'm spectating instead of playing.
Three times I've played through Iceborne and three times I never bothered with tenderizing (maybe I should on a few monsters with harder to reach weak zones, but frankly, the vast majority of monsters have weak zones which are perfectly accessible). I only consistently use clutch claw for wall bangs and on that I agree it's annoying to sometimes grab a monster's forelimb instead of the head (the chances of which can be reduced drastically by simply aiming and timing your grab better), but that's hardly anything which "ruins" such a good game. And without tenderizing, you can still defeat the Iceborne monsters in a reasonable amount of time (around 15 minutes for most, sometimes 20+ for elders and such, but almost never more than 25). I have to say, I think it's weird to be praising wirebugs as being so well balanced and integrated (at least, I definitely think your in the minority opinion on that one) when they only made Rise more easy and sloppy thanks to wirefall (sloppy because you don't have to play as solid; you can get hit, wirefall, chug, go back in). To try and compensate for all of the crazy movement options hunters have with the wirebug, Sunbreak gave many of the upper tier monsters new hard tracking attacks which are kind of cheap and sometimes odd looking. Sunbreak also raised the damage done by monsters as all G Ranks do, but unless a monster can one shot you, wirefall is still a get out of jail free card for the most part. Those aforementioned tracking attacks and new counters for various weapons also encourage you to use a parry-based playstyle in order to kill monsters faster thanks to fewer natural openings. There is also the palamutes and how they again change combat to make things easier (free fast movement with no stamina worries, easy sharpening, etc.). There are issues with Rise/Sunbreak (and I like Sunbreak, but I think Iceborne is the better top to bottom package for sure, and going back to play through all of World/Iceborne again while still playing through Sunbreak confirmed that without a shadow of a doubt) that many others have with it which you overlooked while concluding that you think Sunbreak is objectively the overall better game. When it comes to my MonHun background, I started with 3U and have G-Rank soloed that game, 4U, GU, Iceborne, and now Sunbreak. I'm glad I started with 3U because (small rant incoming) 4U superfans are the worst (and I mean no disrespect to anyone whose favorite is 4U but isn't a snob about the other games) with the way they hold up that game as near perfect (and I like 4U, but it has its own love or hate quirks just the same as any other Monster Hunter) but tend to nitpick every other game in the series as falling short because of one mechanic or unbalanced element that supposedly ruins the game by comparison. At least FU superfans don't deny the bad hitboxes in that one even if they feel like it's the only true hardcore Monster Hunter game. And fans brought in by World who don't like the older games are the most looked down upon by many MonHun vets anyhow (sometimes unfairly, since only the ones who dismiss the older games outright because of lesser graphics, loading zones, or not having the same QoL improvements deserve our scorn; and the vets who happen to love Rise but assume that anyone who has issues with it is a clueless World noob, well, you guys are deluding yourselves). None of the games are free of controversial or somewhat broken elements. None of them. And in a way, that's what gives each of them their own unique identity.
commenting to boost this because I couldn't agree more with it. I really only tenderized people like fatalis, alatreon and safi'jiva. The other times I was tenderizing I was just gap closing
So as a solo casual player, I can play most of the main content in Iceborne without clutch claw without feeling like I'm playing the game wrongly? Just asking as a new player because all of this is really confusing and making me not want to play Iceborne and just stick to the base game.
@@Qladstone no , clutch claw is pretty much needed for all iceborne hunts. Compared to base world the monsters hp is quadrupled with higher armor to counteract the clutch slamming and tenderizing.
@@Qladstone so ridiculous that videos like this turn new players away from an amazing expansion in Iceborne. It's a thing that, unless you're used to it not being in the game, is easily integrated into your play style. Not to mention it is an absolutely miniscule negative (if you consider it a negative) compared to the pros of how good Iceborne is in every other aspect. @HeavyWings making a mountain out of a molehill for content and "hardcore" player pandering.
@@Qladstone if you are new to mh game, no need to care about those cryings from mh community, do what you want. You can see it by your own eyes even with those "cc is this and is that", it doesn't change the fact that MHW:I is one of the best mh games and yes it is better than Rise in every aspects. No one is gonna judge how you play the game, just enjoy your hunt!
Spitting facts. Loved slinger and played on ps4 on release and rebought on steam did everything twice. Then icebourne reared it's ugly head. Never finished it, only got to 107 mr There was also Guiding lands which was horribly tedious and monotonous
I actually enjoyed the clutch claw a lot. Once you learn the monster you are able to know when the timing is optimal to clutch. I also don't think the stagger animation was bad, i felt it was more for a breathing space rather than an interruption to my combo. I don't think it is forced, i have friends that don't like it and would speed run almost every monster in less than 5 minutes, yes the tenderize reduces this time a lot, but it is still optional. I actually don't like wirebugs, like you said at the start, if a feature is optional and you dont like it, you have the option not to use it, and that holds true to the clutch claw, but take LS for example. You can't helm splitter without wirebug, That is something that is forced, when you take away a core skill from the weapon and turn it into a gadget that has a cooldown, that is the biggest problem of wirebugs which was just somewhat fixed with risen kushala's wind mantle. But I honestly would take the clutch claw always first before wire bugs. At the end of the day i feel its a matter of opinion, but still, cool video. Thanks for showing your point of view and critizism honestly, that is something this community needs a lot!
Fundamentally, I think it speaks to just how bad Claw was that mods exist whose sole purpose is to minimise or outright remove Claw's role in combat. Nobody is modding underwater combat out of 3U, or removing Wirebugs from Rise, but Claw was so genuinely terrible that people resorted to mods to just not have to deal with it. World is probably the only MH game where there is a sizeable number of dedicated players who passionately prefer the Base game over the expansion, and Claw is the sole reason for that.
I personally liked the clutch claw, both visually and mechanically, however I definitely think it's balanced poorly. I feel as though it'd be better if tenderizing didn't increase damage dealt, so monsters wouldn't have to be balanced around it, but instead focused entirely on part breaks. Then, tenderizing is optional and is just there to help farming, or in specific fights by weakening a monster. Since I only really use IG, my only issue with it was that it'd take 2 attacks to get the tenderize off, but other than that it added onto the weapon's gameplay quite a bit. Being able to dive with the clutch claw midair and latch onto whatever I hit, or using it after a mount to grapple onto a monster's head before touching the ground. It was cool and fun. Wallbangs were alright for me, mostly as a result of fights being longer, thus needing the extra openings, but in my experience it never got to the point where monsters spent too much of the fight on the ground (except Ruiner Nergi, that boi lives on banana peels). On the other hand, wirebugs made Rise and Sunbreak so easy for me that the only times I ever felt threatened was during the emergency event quests of base Rise and the higher end anomaly investigations of Sunbreak. The extra air time and mobility IG got with wirebugs made, and still makes, pretty much every single hunt extremely safe. Not to say it isn't fun tho, wirebugs are just as cool to me as the clutch claw. Of course, such experiences with either game are entirely subjective, and that's just how it was for me.
I hated the Clutch Claw for essentially why this video pointed out. It was a not fun mechanic the game forced on you if you didn't want to make each hunt take 35+ minutes. It felt bad and it felt like the game was constantly slapping you and going "Use the CC or else". It made me not even finish Iceborne. I desperately hope it doesn't return to MH again. That said I didn't particularly care for the Wirebugs either. They made the game too zippy and also felt like it punished you if you wanted to play without them. And Wyvern Riding just felt like them trying to slap together the wall banging of IB and the monsties from Stories into a weird, OP mishmash. Between hating most of Iceborne and getting bored of Rise long before SB came out I'm wary of MH6. I desperately hope it goes back to the more 3U/4U still game instead of the gimmickfest Gen 5 has been.
One thing that I wanted to add is another side effect that the Clutch Claw brought to the table: The Agitator skill. Even in older games, Agitator/Challenger was a top tier skill to have in G-Rank but in Iceborne it's on a whole other level and because of 2 reasons: 1: Agitator secret: An armor set ability that increases the maximun lever of Agitator up to 7 for even greater benefits, including extra 20% affinity. 2: Clutch Claw allows you to keep the monster constantly enraged and therefore keeping Agitator always up. This meant that, on top of all the thing you mentioned about the Clutch Claw, now you're also encouraged even more to spam the Clutch Claw, otherwise you also loose all the benefits from Agitator 7. It also means that you're always fighting monsters while enraged in Iceborne with barely any down time. Fighting monsters like this can get pretty stressful.
I will say I agree a lot with what was said as a clutch claw denier myself, but I'd also go onto say that having a little interaction between the monster and the clutch claw (like the fatalis standing up and then crawling after a flinch shot) went a long way for me and made me almost think of the clutch claw as an actually well valid and well intetactive mechanic. Almost.
The thing is, you don’t have to use the clutch claw. When people say you are forced to use it or they are being disingenuous because let’s be real, most hunters don’t even use powders, seeds, or traps to increase their damage. Those are all different ways to increase damage output and you don’t have to use them and they aren’t forced, so why is clutch claw different and you have to use it? I see clutch claw as anything else in the game, a tool that I can choose to use that make hunts easier.
@@chi7818 it's a high damage tool. I personally also denied the cape things. I forgot the name as I havent played in years. Evasion heavy invincibility fire resistance etc. I will admit the only one I did use was the fire resistance because Lunastra was an annoying b and it saver me from using fire resistant slots for more damage stones.
@@SemekiIzuio yeah I agree, but just because it’s a high damage tool doesn’t mean it’s mandatory. That’s what I don’t get, why is this one high damage tool mandatory but so many others aren’t? That’s like saying you have to use bow or hbg or LS because their damage is so much higher than let’s say lance. No one says traps are mandatory but the amount of damage you can pump out in a single trap is ridiculous. No one says mega demondrugs, demon powders, and might seeds are mandatory even though they give a lot of attack. That’s all I’m saying, they are being disingenuous and overreacting by saying clutch claw ruins the game because you have to tenderize for damage because they don’t even try to optimize damage in other ways.
@@chi7818 because they put half of Weakness Exploit into the clutch claw. They nerfed WE from its 30% iirc the percentage, cut it to 10% and put the 20% on tendering. On top of that they buffer up monsters HP in Iceborne because the game wants you, forces you to use tenderize unless suffer the consequences of weak damage/long kill time. You can make up the damage by using other crap like str, power surge, and other strong slot gems. But they literally took away a healthy damage mechanic and put it somewhere else splitting the damage. That's what a Nerf is except it wasnt broken.
@@SemekiIzuio considering might seed is 5% attack for 3 minutes, mega demon drug is 3.3% attack until you cart, and demon powder is 5% attack for 3 minutes, you are missing out on 13.3% attack by not using these items. Why isn’t this necessary but 20% crit is? Let’s also not forget they made crit eye 7 give 10% more crit, and agitator secret gave 10% more crit meaning you could make up for the missing 20% by not tenderizing. Don’t get me wrong, clutch claw is a powerful tool but like you said, it’s a tool, it’s not mandatory.
Clutch Claw forced you to not play your weapon, but play the Clutch Claw. Now Tenderise, now Wall Bang, monster is no longer enraged, Wall Bang again, you had to do those in order to be effective. It felt that a gimmicky mechanic that should be there for fun, became the standard, and it was kind of annoying tbh. Some people liked it, but I just wanted to play my weapon.
Could not agree anymore. This one thing single handily made me quit. The sad part is I didn’t even get to fight glavenus. A monster I’ve been waiting for to come back.
Biggest issue with clutch is tenderizing, I love the idea of it, hey turn a non weak point into a weak point, but they ended up making hitzones more like, hey, tenderize the weakest point, and now it's a weak point.... I'm a bowgun user, and when fighting fatalis.....I'm only allowed to shoot it's chest, even the tenderized head isn't a weak spot, so I ended up using sticky for that fight, he's immune to stun, but at least I could help break his head
Not sure about other weapons, but I think Clutch Claw + Hammer is seamless. Letting you clutch out of two of held charge attacks really helped with the flow of fights and lets me keep up with faster monsters. If I could've kept the Clutch Claw in place of Wirebugs, I probably would have, even without wallbangs and tenderizing.
The ire against the clutch claw is directed at the tenderizing mechanic. The game is inevitably balanced around it, thus you have to use it as much as possible to deal normal damages instead of when you want it. If Capcom removed the tenderizing effect, brought back the old hitzone values/made the tenderized hitzone values the default while keeping the wallbang and the clutch attacks (which you would use for example against a flying monster, an out of reach part or to punish an otherwise unpunishable attack like Alatreon's floor is ice), all of a sudden, no one would complain anymore about the clutch claw as it would be an additional tool you use on the side of the normal gameplay when you find it convenient rather than a necessary maintenance you need to do regularly. What is annoying is that it would require little work, yet Iceborne director never addressed the issue despite the community hating the tenderizing mechanic from the get-go (the most vocal being the speedrunners). He only did the barest minimum (Shaver jewel? All light weapons should tenderize in one hit period, no costly lv3 decoration needed and 3 minutes is still too short for the tenderized hitzones to last without having to overuse the clutch claw) at the very end, probably at the request of Ryozo since he seemed to be the "my way or the highway" kind of guy.
People don't realize how intrusive the clagger was in the pace of the game. I don't like how in Rise the monsters are forced to fight each other if they're in the same area but at least the wyvern riding stance it's one time per quest and after SB it's a small (huge) opening where the monster stands still. The clagger triggered WAY more often, it randomly ovverided normal staggers or even worse head staggers and messed up the positioning by pushing the monster away from you. Fighting Kushala in IB feels so different compared to base World now because of that
I measured how long it would take to reposition myself after the clagger animation is activated. It literally takes 2.4 seconds. Stop crying about the pace.
Monster Hunter suffers from a problem where it's a series that wants to be incredibly creative, change itself in new ways in new iterations, and increase player interaction in its fights. While it wants to do this, there is a vocal minority of the playerbase that just wants to play the same game it fell in love with at [insert previous title that is favorite here.] So anything that changes the gameplay flow or does anything to disrupt that desired outcome is the worst thing in the world that ruins a game. If it sounds incredibly dramatic, it's because it is. I don't have an issue with someone disliking something. I don't have an issue with someone expressing their own opinions in a way that doesn't attempt to pass them off as hard facts. But we all have to admit it's pretty ridiculous when someone claims the most sold and most well reviewed expansion of the most sold and well reviewed base game in the ENTIRE series is RUINED because of a mechanic he doesn't like, primarily because it makes him not able to fight monsters like how he could before. To put this into perspective, I don't have a favorable opinion of the new God of War. I regret spending 70 dollars on it, and if there is a third entry in the rebooted franchise I will be avoiding it until it hits the bargain bin, if not entirely. That said, I would never make a video or headline claiming Santa Monica "ruined" God of War. I would never declare that the gripes with the game I know are personal to me "ruined" the fastest selling Sony first party title and a game millions of people are currently enjoying and having an amazing time with. Coming back to Monster Hunter, the series moving to PC creates a middle ground situation where everyone can win, at least everyone that plays the game on PC. Capcom can continue innovating, increasing player interaction in fights, (charging for things that should have been added to event quests,) and increasing the exposure, and user base of the franchise. Meanwhile, people upset with those changes can use mods to revert the game mechanically back to whichever Monster Hunter title they believe the series shouldn't have moved on from. This will be extremely important for whatever the next iteration in the series is, as I have no doubt some members of the vocal minority will find some change that has utterly ruined, decimated, and annihilated the playability of the game.
Capcom nerfed the hitzones of monsters to accommodate for the tenderizing mechanic as well as WE (30% by default + 20% if tenderized instead of 50% by default). Basically, you use the clutch claw to get back to the damages you dealt pre-nerf, not to gain a damage boost. Similar to how the heat gauge of GL functioned in MHGU.
@johan9428 I don't even disagree, and I think if this video was more focused on the numerical changes, it would've been more convincing. Like when he talked about the insane hp increase. But there were too many dumb complaints that just made his whole argument feel like belly aching
(Sorry for the eventual mistakes I’m French) I didn't agree with you. MHW is a game where you have to use absolute every things to maximize your DPs and skills. It's not only ground combat and you have to make giant boulders falls, destroys the dam to flood a part of the map, perform jump attacks from walls to ride monsters. The clutch claw is just a bonus, but if you combine all the bonus you can get together won’t that make the game too easy? So yes, monsters have increased HP but the CC itself doesn't compensate this rise of HP, you have to use the CC along with all the bonuses you can get to improve your skills, for me, it's a good DLC because it makes you progress by mastering new skills and that's what I'm looking for when I'm playing MH
Having played world and ice born several times, i never felt the clutch claw was forced upon me, and i rarely used it in iceborn, despite this my hunt times barely increased, and i thknk the reason for that is because by the time you get to the expantoon of the game, you are good enough at whatever weapon you are using that the health increace dosent matter, as well as this, i never really noticed this 'clagger' effect, and when it did happen i never really thought it was too jarring or disruptive, if anything i was glad the monster was taking a break from jumping around all the time, and the wall bang always felt so cool when you could get it off, giving a great oppertuniry to whale on the monsyer while it was down, to conclude i doont think the clutch claw was a bad addition at all, and much like the slinger, it caan be mostly ignored if you dont like it, but gives a nice buff if you do
You gain way to much from using it more damage easier part breaks more monster down time Btw they nerfed so many hitzones on monsters in icebourne even further making ppl relay o. The clutch claw
10:40 Iceborne director: "Let's introduce the tenderizing mechanic". Developer #1: "But the monsters will get obliterated. It will break the game". Iceborne director: "Then, let's triple the health of the monsters, lower their hitzones and nerf WEX". Developer #2: "But then, the players are kind of compelled to tenderize all the time. Maybe we should test it to see if it is bearable. Maybe it would be simpler to just keep the wallbangs and the clutch attacks on monsters without complicating the gameplay with this tenderizing business". Iceborne director: "No need, I can't be wrong. And you know what? It gave me an idea. The Safi'jiiva siege will be centered around tenterizing and Safi'jiiva will even be able to untenderize!". Fanbase hating the tenderizing mechanic, asking for it to be scrapped and the game rebalanced for a whole year. Iceborne director: "No, I am right and you are wrong. I will throw you a bone and double the tenderizing time and give Shaver Jewel (not lv1 or lv2, but lv3) for light weapons, but that's all". Iceborne director leaves Capcom to the surprise of no one.
@@wits_end. And that's not his only bad idea, just his worst. He put a 0.7 multiplier to the elemental damages of IG and Lance as, in his mind, they were too OP. Meaning against monsters with bad hitzones and great elmzones such as Stygian Zinogre or Ebony Odogaron, these weapons are screwed compared to the others except GS. He nerfed AED and SEAD, meaning it is not uncommon for the monsters to not stagge (especially if you didn't tenderize!) and to punish you as a result right after. He nerfed Maximum Might in a way the skill is absolutely useless instead of simply decreasing the value. He also introduced crowns for endemic lifes (fortunately there is no achievement tied to them). MHWI is my favorite MH along with MH4U thanks of everything else: maps, monsters, investigation system, events, I much prefer the Guiding Lands as an endgame to the Guild Quests of MH4U or the Anomaly Quests of Sunbreak. But Iceborne director made sure it would never be a perfect MH. I am glad he is no longer part of the MH team so he doesn't get to tarnish MH6 gameplay as well, although I fear something even worse may happen with this game coughcoughmicrotransactionscough.
Honestly, 4U has the best combat. Especially for GS. GS is kinda brain dead now, it used to be about openings and timing. Now it’s hurrdurr tackle through something and throw a true charged in a situation I shouldn’t be able too but can get it off anyway
The whole premise of this video is based on you not enjoying the use of the slinger/clutch claw. The fix for you would be to lower health of the monsters so it wouldn't feel like the mechanic is required. That might be great for you, but you're just throwing a middle finger to anyone who enjoys using it. I for one like that it's not mindlessly easy to use. I like having to find an opening. I like that it's punishing to not use all the tools I have available. I like the look of the animations. I like that there are two mantles can be used to make it easier if I want. Base world was too easy, I agree. And thank you, Iceborne, for forcing me to actually think about my build and lean forward in my chair during a fight. Iceborne isn't just a story DLC. It's an entire end-game on top of World's end-game. It should be difficult, and it should absolutely expect you to do more than pack Mega Potions and bonk a monster on the head for 5 minutes.
I just recently starting going back to Worldborn, but you don't have to sheath to use the clutch claw. Why did Heavy always say you have to sheath? Did I miss something?
@@pascal2666 All weapons can use slinger and claw while unsheathed. However, Insect Glaive, Lance, and the ranged weapons need to click in the right circle pad (on Console) to swap between normal aim mode (or in the case of lance, claw counter mode) to slinger/claw aim mode.
@@Andrew-hz5zc yea that is what I remember. I played enough Worldborn that I can't tell what actions to press, I just do it without thinking :( but I felt like sheathing is something I rarely do before clawing. Anyhow, playing some hours Worldborn and then Risebreak gave me some conclusions Heavy was pointing out. Even though I like the claw combat wise, I don't like it being mandatory to progress in a decent pace. In contrast, I started learning Lance today in Risebreak and immediately liked the switchskills and their integration. A difference in feel like day and night.
Massive "Skill Issue" Vibe coming from here. Monsters have massive amount of Health in iceborne? That's unreasonable!!!! If only our gear would scale... wait a moment
I wouldn't say the Clutch Claw ruined the game. The main issue is the tenderizing. Not only it increased the raw damage, it is also bound to the effectiveness of the weakness exploit skill. These two factors alone turned it into mandatory routine resulting in a monster being covered in ugly texture. :) Saying that Capcom introduced new ways how to reach extra affinity without relying on weakness exploit and improved power of elemental builds that don't benefit from tenderized monsters as much. Later they improved the duration of tenderized effect, improved some weapon moves (clawyuken) and added decoration to make it more easy. Still I would prefer the clutch claw attack to be a way to get in some extra damage when monster is airborne or so. However, the latest version is still much more bearable. Another thing I don't like is the stagger period being extended with the clutch claw which creates these stupid looking moments when the hunter clutch on the to the monster just to jump down to artificially create an opening. This could also be easily fixed by extending time only during the clutch claw attack. Other than that I rarely had an issue with clutch claw aiming or learning when to use it or not. Despite clutch claw implementation being far from flawless, it also contributed to some cool looking cinematic moments. So I personally don't mind it as much. On the other hand, I'm surprised that in contrast people are so chill about wyvern riding mechanic. Sure Capcom fixed it so it's no longer mandatory but the whole theatre when the second monster arrives to the area is still there. You know when the monster you're fighting suddenly starts running across the whole area to greet the other monster, blocking turf wars, etc. This mechanic imo is much more intrusive in comparison.
I haven’t actually played world or iceborne, but I have played rise and sunbreak, and I just wanna point out that while the silkbind attacks are indeed mandatory, unlike the clutch claw, they only add to your punishment opportunities instead of detracting from them. The clutch claw forces you to use it to tenderize the monster when you have the chance, which means your ability to fully punish the monster is contingent on it already being tenderized, on top of having on opening. In rise/sunbreak, the silkbind attacks only give you more options for how to punish the monster when you have the chance. Not to mention the silkbind attacks can also be used strategically to actually create openings and punishment opportunities. The clutch claw technically can too, but it’s a matter of aiming your reticle at the monster and pulling off the wallbang, rather than strategically using unique moves designed specifically for the weapon you’re using.
You didn’t really need tenderize if you have affinity and mind’s eye build. People just screaming because they can’t get maximum result from attack jewel and critical eyes without tenderizing.
Just like with underwater combat, you went very hard on the negative aspects of the clutch claw, starting with the requirement of the clutch claw with just bigger hp pool (the hp pool increase attempted to fix the power Crept brought from the new skill sistem that allows for 100% affinity and more) which is far less triviliazing than the wirebug, where you have to use it for escaping combo attacks on top of dealing little damage with just the normal moveset of the weapons Saying that rise is fundamentally build with the wirebug on mind is a wrong statement because monsters weren't balanced to keep up with a casual player that attackfall or healfall (just to use your own terms) Saying that rise is for people that like wirebug is another bad statement,,, not only because people could find the wirebug annoying to use after playing with it.... But mhtri and 3u are marketed with the underwater combat as a brand new addition to the gameplay, made for people that enjoy underwater environments, yet this gimmick doesn't get the free pass you gave to the wirebug, a FAR more invasive mechanic that is present in every hunt rather than 1/4 (more or less) of the entire game Let's be honest, only because monsters are faster, that doesn't mean that you shouldn't take your time to find and opening to tenderize, you shouldn't tenderize the whole body, just few parts and some monsters like velkhana have few attacks with an hitboxe on the head, allowing for incredibly easy tenderizing.... What happened to your interest for the grounded combat when you can simply increase your damage or create opening at the cost of dealing with enraged monsters? At the end of the day i don't need to defend capcom decisions for world iceborne, im still enjoying it far more than rise-sunbreak but i do agree with one statement... The main line team should take from the portable team the things that work like switch skills (still need rebalancing though) but that shouldn't stop the main team from experimenting themselves, the series needs to be fresh with every entry or it should take what didn't worked in past in order tp give it a second chance..... Yes I'm still hoping for underwater combat, imagine having swimming fins or propellers in order to give the player great mobility underwater
So your whole essay is just you not liking wirebugs? Heavywings did say it's a like it or hate it mechanic, and there's nothing wrong with it. It is not considered "invasive" if the whole game is designed around it, which is also what Heavy explained in the video. Did you even watch the video and just sweep every point made under the rug?
Also how is "Rise is for people that like wirebugs" a bad statement? If people like the gameplay the wirebugs bring to the table, then they're going to like the game. If they don't, then that's fair enough rise is probably not the game for you. Simple as.
@@saladv3028 how could a centralized mechanic not being invasive if this mechanic adds his own broken things (movement, damage and buffs of whatever kind) while the monster are not balanced enough to keep up enough to pose a sever challenge while still making the base moveset underwhelming in comparison cause of the high hp pool and laaarge area attacks that cant be dodged with good positioning? It would be similar to take the mh4 combat and add to the player a portable dragonator that recharges after 1 min... "oh we wanna add this dragonator to the hunter moveset, its fun, but the monster would die too easily so let's increase the hp pool of the monsters to match the dragonator power and add one shot attacks that can be stopped only with the dragonator ... Its fun" No it isn't fun, you make an invasive change on the already present moveset of the player.... and don't make mistake, clutch claw was invasive because of 2 reasons, hp pool (due to an overpowered tenderizing mechanic) and partially the clagger that allows the player to tenderize one part and focusing on it or taking a break but the requirement was more for players that don't go prepared and/or don't hit often the weak spots... It seems that the clagger breaks the flow of the combat only when you are so used to attack without committent or caring about committent, i do like old monter hunter but how many times the monsters could go out of the ranges of your attacks just to hit you from behind? Back to the wirebug, it's invasive also if you consider that it removed the standard mount (caused by aerial attacks) and made Wyvern riding which you have to use silk bindings... And sunbreak added afflicted monsters that have an inherent dps check But you are right, rise is totally not for me, a lot of many different things such as the monsters always located on the map or the ability to instantly ride the palamute in combat.... It's great to use the dog for traversal movement yes,,,it shouldn't be used to run like a coward in order to sharpen your weapon during a fight without any risk (and if you want to say that in some fights you can't ride palamutes, well there are fights like the alatreon or velkhana where you don't need to tenderize because of the hitzone values already big and the tenderize formula couldn't change that much the hitzones)
I think it's a bit much to say that it "ruins" the game while every criticism can be summed up to a skill issue for the most part. I personally haven't had any issues beating monsters quickly and a lot of times i forget the clutch claw even exists. The pause that monsters do to me is no different then when they are tired in the middle of the fight as well.🤷🏾♂️🤷🏾♂️I don't see it as a big deal tbh
I've played world casually for over 80 hours and didn't use the claw much, just when I remembered I had it and i never felt like it had a detriment to the game but I keep hearing people complain about it so I am interested to see exactly why. Will edit once I've watched the video to give my opinions Edit: having now watched the video, a couple things leap out at me. The largest impact of the clutch claw on the game is the clagger, as it breaks normal gameplay, and I think while it could have worked it they didn't move so far away, it is definitely a detriment. Your other points however, I'm not so sure about. Playing through iceborne hunts took a while but I fully expected that because it's master rank and it's always harder, but until I learned they were supposed to take an extra long time in this video, I never noticed it, and it did not break my immersion at all. I also didn't notice the reduced hotzone damage either, and the cool moves and other things iceborne added far overshadowed the only thing I didn't like which was the clagger. This may be due to the fact that I play gunlance, which is a pretty slow play style so that could have contributed to not noticing the longer fight times. In conclusion: for someone playing casually or with friends not focused on optimizing the endgame(alatreon, fatalis) I don't think clutch claw is as jarring as people make it out to be even a good way into master rank. Context on me as a player(gunlance main, 800 hours across 3u, 4u, gu, world, and rise. Imo best game is 4u, world, gu, rise, 3u in that order)
Played Worlds across PS4 and PC with a combined 1400 hours. Clutch claw is 100% forced in Master/G rank and let me tell you, it's not fun at all trying to find the only window in a middle of a fight that breaks the fight cycle. Ie) you dodge and weave through attacks of a Zinogre and hit him once on an off hit and then he staggers mid combo and it goes from a game of fighting optimally to "oh I need to clutch claw now". And then if you fight Alatreon and Fatalis without tenderizing their heads, GOOD LUCK winning that fight is all I have to aay
@@leekyonion LOL, Alatreon and Fatalis are the monsters where tenderizing is literally, FACTUALLY the LEAST useful, especially their heads. Alatreon's head is an 85 hitzone. The tenderize multiplier formula is to times by 0.75, then add 25 and take off the decimal. That means the higher the hitzone the less useful tenderizing actually is. For Alatreon's 85 hitzone head, that goes up to 88, a difference of 3. Hardly anything at all. Fatalis' head is a hitzone of 75. Oh, not as high as Alatreon's, so it's more useful right? WRONG, Fatalis is special in that a negative 5 "bonus" is applied after the tenderizing formula on tenderized parts. That means that tenderizing his head literally only improves the hitzone by ONE. He also doesn't need a tenderized head in order to get a partbreak bonus on wallbangs, meaning tenderizing the head is practically worthless for Melee weapons. Saying tenderizing is required for Ala and Fatty is one of the most ignorant statements ever, the bonus you get from it is extremely tiny on them specifically. They honestly punish you more if you DO use the claw because they each have multiple moves that pin or just straight up kill you if you are clutched on, even with a mantle. It's almost like people hear that tenderizing is required and just immediately believe it without doing any research or even trying it out themselves.
Oh man, I am so sorry about the hate brigade that’s come your way. Had no idea it was going to be THIS bad. So much for react streamers benefitting the OG creator, eh? I wouldn’t blame you if you just went full recluse for like a month
I really like the clutch claw in theory, primarily because, on the face of it, it's a nice middle ground between rise's wirebugs giving too much power and freedom to the player and something more restrained. like being able to make a monster rush forward and have it hit a wall is a really good and fun mechanic and when coupled with how easy it is to fall of (ccompared to mounting for example) it makes a great risk/reward system. in theory. of course in practice it was heavily overtuned and what should've been something you could use occationally in a hunt to push an advantage became what you described here.
I've also spoken about this with some other very long time game veterans, and also broached the subject of why they don't like Rise. It is for basically the same reason that the clutch claw "ruins" Iceborne. Fundamentally, both the clutch claw and wirebugs are extremely powerful general mechanics available to all hunters which necessarily shape the game around them. At first they trivialize it because the devs themselves don't know how strong the mechanics actually are, and monsters aren't designed to really interact with them. Clutch claws made monsters in Iceborne extremely squishy and easy to permastun, wirebugs made hunters in rise functionally immortal. Naturally, this made the games "easymode" at first. But then the devs update the game. They change the monsters to take these mechanics in account, in essence assuming that the hunters can and will make full use of them. This results in anyone who wasn't using the mechanics for legacy reasons- IE they are game veterans with years of hardlocked habits and biases; and are allergic to change; and hate the idea of having to add a new tool to their kit and develop new skills or use weapons in new ways- which is fine. If they have a specific style of play they like they're fine to enjoy playing it. The issue is that when the devs inevitably make the shift in the monster designs to balance the game and make it genuinely challenging, these players get left behind extremely hard and are put into a position where they feel they have no *choice* but to use the mechanic they don't like; and thus come to hate the entire game as a whole. In other words, it goes from a matter of simply not being optimal to one of deciding between strugglebussing through the remainder of the game or hating playing it because its not what they're used to. It happened in Iceborne when they began releasing post-game monsters that had specific anti-clutch mechanics (or mechanics which outright required clutch), such as Rajang, Alatreon, AT Velk, Fatalis, Safi, Raging Brachy. It happened in Rise when they release sunbreak, and the entire second half of the game's monster cast was designed with wirebug mobility in mind (although they technically were in basegame as well, its very clear the devs really did not know the strength of the wirebug- as the game did not become difficult in any meaningful way until the event quest for the super high difficulty Crimson Glow Valstrax), including the fact that one of the game's fundamental defensive mechanics (having i-frames when on the ground) was dramatically nerfed to make up for wirebug recovery- which itself was now punished by several monsters that had moves specifically designed to counter it unless you time it perfectly (essentially the same as getup s, but just different in nature and thus something that needs to be "relearned" for veteran players not used to being bad at the game and new players who struggle with things like frame perfect timings to begin with). Some players also have severe hatreds for "easy" weapons like Bowguns- and despised wirebugs *specifically* because it gave bowguns mobility that they "shouldn't" have (although to be fair it did NOT come at the cost of their damage potential like it should have, and as a result HBGs in Rise are kind of laughably OP since they literally "have it all").
As an addon, I generally agree with the video's conclusions. The clutch claw was a half-assed addition to an already well designed game that put both the devs and the players in a tough spot, and ended up leaving sore feelings with many. The wirebug was a part of Rise from day 1, and although it wasn't really "balanced" well until Sunbreak- that is leagues better than the Clutch Claw which wasn't balanced until the last *7* monsters in the entire game. To me, the existence of the wirebug is no different than the existence of Mega Potions, or Max Potions, or Demondrugs, or Armortalon/Powertalon, the moveset of every single weapon. It's just another mechanic to add to the list of mechanics to learn. But for veterans players who fundamentally want little more than a modern graphical reboot of their favorite monster hunter game, it's an alien oddity that distinctly separates the game from what they view as the "True" monster hunter experience.
What I like about wirebugs is that it keeps the flow of combat "flowing" and it gives you strategy options, you can avoid using skills so you can jump out from a hit and keep fighting, you dont need to superman dive to avoid superattacks, if a monster gets too far away, wirebug to him and keep fighting, everything keeps you in the flow, the game never stops just so you can preform a specific action.... Well, at least now that riding isnt mandatory it doesn't. Ive been playing this series since monhun 1 and honestly risebreak has been ny favourite combat so far
I like the concept of the clutch claw, but in practice it didn’t work out quite as well as it could’ve. However I grew to like it more over time learning when I can get an opening to tenderize the monster. Having to tenderize felt tedious but it still was a little bit rewarding tendering monsters like Fatalis or Alatreon or AT Velkhana, monsters that really don’t like when you clutch on them. When you do learn their attacks and find a safe opening to tenderize or flinch shot it is rewarding, and adds another layer of combat, but in its execution it did start to feel tedious having to constantly tenderize monsters. The staggers do help to get time to tenderize but the fact they get pushed back so far is so frustrating when you whiff your helm breaker because the spirit thrust staggered them The janky aim of the clutch claw is also so frustrating
Totaly agree with everything you said. One of the most egregious parts for me was how the monster hitboxes while clutch clawing felt basicaly random, especialy when you compare one monster to another. But what realy did it for me was when I clawed onto a rathalos' wing while he was flying, and he did that swoop down claw attack. Not only did I get knocked off, but I got poisoned. How do you explain that? I guess they changed the canon so that rathalos has poison in his wings now too.
Yeah it's a bit like the Barioth tail example, they really needed to design the game around something like this from the start to avoid issues like that.
Gonna leave a bit of positivity in this sea of hate Clutch claw isn’t that good, I find it hard to use World is a fine game, but clutch claw doesn’t help with combat “Ruined” sure is a bit much But it definitely didn’t really help To those asmongold people still telling my boi to get good or bullying him, this is just his opinion ffs, he’s just sharing his experience, please stop being toxic
I've listened to a lot of people complain about clutch claw, and while I understand why people don't like it - I seem to like it almost always for the reason people dislike it. I love the feeling of getting a wallbang or a tenderize off while the monster is up and doing an attack that leaves that part open, but you really can get away with doing it during exhausts and downs. It seems like I'm in the minority for it, but I enjoy having the clutch claw far more than base World. And for the last bit of the video, I disagree with your discouragement on devs adding drastic changes. I think that once they have a solid base-combat it's great for them to experiment with some big changes and additions. It lets them know what to do in future installments/updates and allows each game to feel at least a good bit different from the last. And I'd really just rather have weird/bad mechanics than something completely run-of-the-mill.
I do really agree with the point you and a lot of others have made: that it needs to be more involved with a wider spectrum of the weapons. Part of why I like the claw so much is probably because the weapons I've played the most use it alongside DB and HH getting some level of innate Mind's Eye.
If the clutch claw was only used for the occasional wall bang and extra hit/gap close it would've been great imo. Revert hit zones to what they were in world, remove tenderize, remove the clagger and put some sort of limitation on wall bang so a non enraged monsters get to actually do something and it's fixed. There are mods that have done things like these.
Guy doesn't like clutch claw, that's all. It didn't ruin the game at all. It's not even completely necessary to use if you don't want to use all the tools provided to you. The slinger gives massive advantages to people who use it too but once again you don't need to use it if you're okay with being a sub optimal hunter. Clutch claw is fun. If you don't like it don't use it but don't pretend it ruined anything.
Pb is, the hitzones and WE were nerfed to accommodate for the tenderizing mechanic. If you don't tenderize, you do less damage than the game expects you to do, and your hunting time increases drastically. No mechanic should ever directly influence damage numbers, else the game is inevitably balanced around it, and you need to use it as much as possible instead of when and where you want it like the hunting arts.
@@johan9428 You just miss out on 20 affinity. It doesn't drastically increase hunt time unless you're not hitting a weak spot. The mechanic is fine and nitpicking about doing it is just silly. If you don't wanna be efficient don't use it... you'll still kill the monsters just fine. Same with slinger, same with optimal decos, same with sharpening. This is such a goofy perspective to take. Claw adds to the experience it is NOT the whole experience.
@@johan9428You won't reach them all. Many of them are literal children, not having the patience to take in and critically think about the information. Then you have others that view this game as their religions idol because of the pretty visuals. Criticizing the idol to them is like Criticizing them personally. Facts and math won't reach people so emotionally invested. They aren't logical thinking because they don't want to be. Again, it is their religious idol.
@@BrokenRose-mu6kx Just to be clear, I disagree with Heavy Wings who says the clutch claw ruins the game (some of his points are hypocritical and make no sense like him complaining that the monsters had too little HP and died too fast in World, but complaining also that you need to use the clutch claw in Iceborne to kill the monsters just as fast as you did in World). I prefer way more Iceborne to Sunbreak, despite the tenderizing mechanic. Yes, I dislike the tenderizing mechanic. I think it is an unnecessary chore which should have never been added in the first place and should never ever return. But at the end of the day, it is "just" an annoying maintenance we need to perform every 3 minutes. The rest of the time, the gameplay is still grounded, and it still feels like a Monster Hunter. In Sunbreak, yes, the Wirebugs are more fun to use than the clutch claw, but it changes the gameplay so much it barely looks like Monster Hunter anymore (the monsters also got BS moves to compensate, so if you refuse to use the Wirebugs, you are even more punished than in Iceborne if you don't tenderize). Example: Oh, I got knocked hard by a monster. Instead of being sent rolling on the floor and being vulnerable to be hit again when I get up, I just spiderman away on the side, barely an inconvenience aside from the damage taken. Also, Rise and Sunbreak have an even bigger sin than the tenderizing mechanic: microtransactions escalation and poor event rewards.
World has microtransactions too and laying on the floor gives you s enough for the next follow up attack to not hit you. It's a cop out than actual danger. I've never carted in Worldborne because I couldn't wirefall away as the s and being able to wake up when I want to always gives me an easy way out. Wire falling when you don't have to (pins and combos from monsters like Valstrax) leaves you open to another attack. If you've played long enough you'll notice that monsters often react to what you are doing. Ex. it's not uncommon for rajang to send out a second laser at you if you wirefall and try to heal. I've even had a rajang do his ground slam twice in a row just to spite me after using wirefall. The damage reactions are more in favor of the player in Worldborne than in Risebreak. A lot of attacks in Worldborne lets you get knocked face down while Risebreak often puts you in a slight stagger getting up. Those stagger getting up animations are what puts you at risk. Worldborne often nerfed damage reactions or increased them to favor the player. There's a youtuber known as Kītan who goes into detail about this and monster behavior and has video evidence to prove what I am saying. Edit: Forgot to mention, monsters are also more likely to attempt to grab you if you use your wirebugs up. (Rajang is notorious for this) I'd argue mantles take a lot more away from Monster Hunter. Giving players literal auto dodge, a get out of jail free card mantles when things get too intense, a mantle that nerfs damage reactions and reduces damage, mantles that make elemental attacks a joke, mantles that give free mounts for free knock downs, mantles that make stunning easy, mantles that give you tons of s while buffing you too. Not to mention you can slot decos into these to buff the player even more. @@johan9428
I've played Monster Hunter since Monster Hunter Freedom on the PSP, and honestly... I love the clutch claw and a lot of my friends who used to play with me from before do...
Is it wrong tho? The guy doesn't even know that you can brace during monster attacks, nor recovering from getting thrown off, then blames the game when he's getting punished for doing a heavy attack during a hip check lmao
@@34125867the bracing and recovering from throws is a mount thing not a clutch claw thing. The heavy attack during the attack is fair tho. Personal opinion there should be a few monster attacks with more recovery frames so that in solo you can more easily tenderize with heavy weapons. Although i play insect glaive so the tenderize times dont affect me
Actual children. This is what people meant with his toxic fanbase and will just harass someone for disagreeing with them rather than properly discussing. I think the video had some very good points with some weak points, but it doesn't warrant harassment at all since it's his opinion.
Guy complains about monster health being balanced around clutch claw then says monster health being balanced around wirebug is fine. He is joke. Complains about differences in weapon tenderizing attacks, like yeah weapons have different balance what you want to complain that blocking with a lance is better than blocking with greatsword?
@@34125867 You can't brace when clutching the monster so I don't know why you brought that up? The hip check thing is his fault though, but everything else he said in the video is correct for the most part.
How did sunbreak make riding optional? Did i miss something? im playing and still get annoyed big time everytime i have to stop my combat (or waste my weapon buffs for that matter) just so i have to do a lenghty 3-wall-bang ride
Previously if you didn't want to ride, you would have to not attack the monster for like 7 seconds, massive pace breaker. They added a setting that makes it so attacking doesn't trigger the ride, so you can keep wacking on the monster and they'll return to normal. You can also set Followers to ride for you if you don't want to.
Most of the complaints I see are about the tenderizing aspect, but my problem was always the wall bang. I could never get it to work right, and it felt like such a silly way to damage a monster anyway.
Yeah some walls don't actually count as walls and the monster slides off. It's one of those things that happens infrequently but enough to be really annoying, and it still happens in Rise too.
I always thought wall bangs felt better than the mounting mechanic. Quicker and requires paying attention to your surroundings and some careful planning. It was a little wonky at times, but if they didn't have tenderizing I bet they could make wall bangs feel more consistent.
The alatreon fight sucks, I and my friends would miss almost every wall bang, may be a skill issue but it's still frustrating seeing him running into the wall for 5 seconds and doesn't count it as wallbang
the biggest issue i have with it is how inconsistent it is and how little is actually explained of what's going on. Why do i get thrown off 7 times in a row while the monster is just standing there but can ride on for the entirety of a rathalos death lotus midair. why can my friend just clutch onto it without any problem for the entire fight. why do light weapons have to clutch it twice to tenderize it or otherwise slot in a high level decoration just to get the basic functionality of the forced mechanic. why is insect glaive reliant on landing a clutch to perform in the most basic of combat scenarios due to their reliance on monster dropped slinger ammo. sometimes the monster glides along the wall from a clagger, sometimes it hits nothing. When you're fighting safi'jiva, you're actively told that you need to clagger the monster at specific times by voice cues from the extras, yet trying to do it when they say just causes you to get arbitrarily knocked off 7 more times. why does completing a tenderize both animation lock you and drop you off directly in front of the monster/ on top of one of its attacks. like it feels like its 100% designed just to be BS from the start.
9:35 Did he just say that Rise was more challenging? RISE? It's literally the easiest of the series by a mile. Wirebug made every monster a joke, and also most bosses had bird health. Sunbreak acknowledged this and spiced up things a little bit, but still fairly easy.
Tenderizing I think is a perfectly fine mechanic implemented poorly. It would have been better as something implemented into each weapon's moveset - either as a new move or additional benefit to existing moves. SnS, DB, and Lance had this done rather well, but it could have worked as a benefit of using less-used moves as well. On GS for example it should have been included as an effect of landing Strong Wide Slash on a monster part. This would allow the mechanic while keeping combat flowing, as well as rewarding proper spacing with a tenderize on the part players are actually hitting. On a related note - the lack of necessity to tenderize is part of why the Fatalis fight is one of the best fights in the series for me. It takes what is (imo) the best base combat in the series and just pits you against the final threat. Yeah the fight has gimmicks, but it still felt really well-crafted to me.
The slinger (provided that you use dragon, bomb, or piercing pods) can stop wyverns that are flying from flying. It works very good if you hit them in the head, but each time you hit you'll need to wait for them to get through a stun animation before hitting them with the next pod. Claggering is very annoying, but aren't the only time you can stun monsters for attacks. If you claw onto their head, then perform a claw attack onto their head, it'll stagger them long enough to perform an attack.
Greatsword main from Iceborne here, While I wouldn't say Clutch Claw ruined Iceborne.. It did seriously break a flow of a hunt so lot. infact, in the very late game you could do away with tenderising as long as you hit a weakpoint because honestly, the meta was to keep a monster enraged or on a floor due VERY easily stackable secret skill. If only wallbanging was something you could do with slinger ammo and succesful mount, it would have been a lot better. IMHO. Mounting was mostly weaksauce in World
The Clutch Claw was introduced to solve a problem that didn't exist. And it resulted in an unbalanced mess. It was one of the reasons why I dropped the game when I did. Before I go on a tangent though, I wanna elaborate. I was a hardcore aerial IG main in World and Iceborne and never felt comfortable using the Crutch Claw. I think there were combos that led you crutch onto Monsters from the air, but I really disliked the whole "You have to use it to tenderize for better Hit Zone Values, nvm Weakness Exploit" part of it. So I did not use it at all. Which was actually p fine until the last two fights. After them I dropped Iceborne for the first time. Came back a bit later, but it didn't last long either.
I'd like to offer counterpoints to many stuff in the video, as a clutch claw enjoyer. Something to keep in mind, I only played World/Iceborne AFTER all the updates. I never experienced how claw was without the shaver deco and the doubled tenderize timer. For all I know, it really was atrocious then. But I'm defending it as it is NOW. 4:53-5:08 This isn't a bad point and I don't blame you for bringing it up. I think it can be largely fixed by just turning off the auto-aim assist in the settings though. Aiming where YOU want without the game trying to mess up really helps. 5:09-5:22 Congratulations, you just described... Monster Hunter combat. MH combat is about finding openings during monster attacks. You fail, you get knocked back. Claw is just an extension of that. If you claw when you don't have enough time or a safe spot to grapple to, you get knocked off. So find consistent times and positions to grapple to during attacks and you will succeed. Else, you fail. 5:23-5:36 Sure, but learning when and when not to claw is part of it. MH has always had inconsistent hitboxes that screw over game mechanics all the time. Don't act like in Rise your counters never got messed up due to hitboxes, or even you succeeded in the counter but didn't actually hit the monster. This isn't a claw problem, it's a hitbox problem. Monster hitboxes aren't different depending on if you're clutched on or not. 5:41-5:56 Fast weapons are fast and slow weapons are slow? Who would have thought!? Again, this isn't a claw problem. Each weapon plays differently, and that includes how they use the claw. As for the point later about light weapons taking two attacks, just use shaver jewel. I know it's a band-aid solution, but it's an effective one and pretty much removes a ton of problems. Extra slinger ammo is a huge benefit you also ignored here that the light weapons get. 6:50 I completely agree with the weapon integration point. LS, CB, HH, GS, and the Bowguns all suffered here. But the remaining 8 weapons all had good or even passable integration. SnS has claw uppercut to tenderize without shaver, DB has a combo to do the same, Hammer and Lance you mentioned, GL doesn't have a combo or special move, but the claw attack reloads ALL ammo and gives slinger ammo for the wyrmstake blast, Swaxe has ZSD synergy with claw, IG has aerial claw (and a straight up really good claw attack) and Bow has a super fun shot after the claw attack that flows perfectly back to normal gameplay. LBG also gets a somewhat pass here because sticky meta at endgame doesn't even need claw at all. 7:29-7:59 Don't act like Temporal and Rocksteady made claw more fun. They were half the problem. Even without claw they're the best mantles by a long shot. You always used them. And WITH claw, they reduce the matter of claw use to just putting them on and doing it for free with no skill. THAT ruins flow. If you want a tenderize or wall bang, find an opening. It's very fun to successfully claw during monster attacks once you learn to recognize when certain parts are safe and when they aren't. How do I know this? For one, because that's exactly how I play the game (I willingly don't use Temporal or Rocksteady), and for two, would you look at that, it's exactly how MH combat works. A tenderize and a lengthy attack like a TCS are the same at a fundamental level. If you don't have a free opening, you find your OWN openings while the monster attacks you by anticipating its moves. Temporal and Rocksteady negate that almost completely. This comment is getting long so I'll continue in the replies.
8:08 I'll actually concede a good amount of points about the clagger. The monster goes back pretty far, and it shouldn't have been added to base World. But it's not like other types of flinches aren't just as annoying, especially if your weapon has short reach like SnS. Knockdowns where the monster goes flying backward like Anjanath could be argued to break combat flow. So could flinches where the monster rears its head back really far before returning to it's normal position. I find this weirdly common with flying wyverns in Rise. Older games are also littered with times where you hit a monster's enrage threshold mid-combo, and they suddenly and jarringly jerk into their roar animation, interrupting your combo. It's not like the clagger is all bad either. It's a reward of a free tenderize or wallbang, and it opens up consideration of other options if the monster is already tenderized and/or enraged. Do I reset the tenderize timer? Do I soften up a different part? Or do I just use this as a damage opening? I think it's unreasonable to say it completely breaks combat flow, especially considering how rare it is in endgame fights like Rajang or Elder Dragons. Also, I never understood how it looks "unnatural." Like, it's just another type of flinch. Of course a monster would react like that if you hit it a bunch. 9:33 I just can't understand your point here. You admit yourself that World had low HP monsters, which made it easy. So how is increasing the HP by a lot a problem? And you just assume it's all because of the clutch claw? You didn't even consider the crazy amount of skills you were able to slot into your armor in Iceborne, the new weapon additions, or the fact that they just were making up for the low base game HP values. Of course they needed a high multiplier on World's HP values. They were way too low! 11:11 I've always heard this point about the monster hitzones, but I've found no evidence that it's actually true. As far as I know, base game Rathalos is the same as Iceborne Rathalos, same for every monster in base World. Until there's actual proof of this, I'm not inclined to believe it. What I think people mean here is that monsters that were added to Iceborne had lower hitzones in general. And to an extent, they're right. Subspecies and Variant monsters had nerfed hitzones in general, such as Coral Pukei, Ebony Odogarron, Seething Bazel, and even Acidic Glav compared to normal Glavenus. But this is pretty common for subs and variants anyway, and the claw isn't really to blame here. Many monsters from Old games also had significantly BUFFED hitzones across the board. Tigrex for example never had anything above 45 (Weakness Exploit range, I'll just say WEX from now on) except for its face, but now it's claws and tail are WEX. Brachy also has a WEX tail, Glavenus has a WEX back, Narga a WEX tail, Barioth has WEX claws for blunt damage, and Alatreon just got MUCH higher hitzones all around. Rajang weirdly got pretty bad nerfed hitzones, but this kind of backfired because the claw is so useless on him anyway. The back legs aren't WEX even with a tenderize, and neither are his hardened arms, and you can't even tenderize his face. He can even throw you off of his arms even with a mantle on, altogether making him a fight where it's literally better to IGNORE the claw. Maybe claw affected SOME monster hitzones, like Namielle or some of the Subspecies, but overall I'm pretty sure the monster hitzone nerfs thing is literally untrue. (EDIT: I've actually been disproven on this! Although I still think there's a defensible point to be made in this regard. Check further replies.) 11:15 Get ready, cuz I'm about to bash Temporal and Rocksteady again. Yes, wallbangs are powerful, and if used optimally, result in tons of knockdowns. You know what makes that so easy? These two mantles! I heavily recommend taking them off and never looking back. Suddenly, wallbangs and tenderizes are much more of a challenge and are actually engaging, requiring skill to pull of and making it so you DON'T just get a bunch of free knockdowns from wallbangs all the time. Replace these two mantles with different ones. Use evasion if you're concerned about the damage loss. It's a huge damage boost when you dodge correctly. You can even use affinity booster to make up for the affinity lost from the WEX nerf! (Or you could build sets that reach 100% affinity anyway even without the full effect of WEX. It's still the most powerful skill in the game and honestly NEEDED the nerf) Point is, wallbangs are more fun when they actually take skill. 11:40-11:56 I will actively laugh at this point when it comes from people like you who say 4U or any other old game is the best MH game. First of all, if hunts take 25 mins without claw for you, that's straight up a skill issue. Something tells me you don't even realize that already high hitzones don't get as much of a benefit for tenderizing due to the formula. I suppose I can't blame you for that since that's not info the game tells you. But tenderizing something like a Rathian head isn't actually that much of an upgrade outside of the affinity, which can be made up for in different ways. I can see something like a Namielle taking that long without tenderizing because of it's generally low hitzone values, but even then I don't think most people realize the front legs are a higher hitzone than the face. Face isn't even WEX on Namielle when hydrated, but forelegs are. And even IF hunts commonly took 25 minutes solo... that's still the best we've ever had it in a G rank in the series! You admitted you like 4U the most, but G rank hunts in that game aren't single-player scaled at all! Most of the highest G rank quests in that game just aren't viable solo, period, because they just have too much HP. I'd easily rather have a 25 minute hunt than having to wait 10 minutes doing NOTHING for some rando(s) to show up and actually make it reasonable for a quest to be done in the first place! I can understand not liking the clutch claw. But to claim it's forced on you, while claiming to favorite the game(s) where multi-player is ACTUALLY forced on you, is just a laughable stance to take in my opinion. I've done claw-less hunts myself, and I can tell you from experience that they last completely reasonable times. 13:05-13:17 No. Just no. NEVER use a knockdown to tenderize, unless you have a combo like Hammer or Dual Blades that tenderizes while keeping up DPS. Once again, you seriously overestimate how much damage a tenderize actually gives you. An already good hitzone, like a head, deals perfectly fine damage without tenderizing. Plus, if you can't even hit the tenderized spot frequently enough while the monster attacks you, the tenderize is very much not worth it. Tenderizing on a down isn't a DPS increase. Ideally, a tenderize is best when you're not able to get in regular moves anyway. That's why it's useful to do so against claggered monsters, flying monsters, or even to build up the tenderize with claw swipes as you go for a wall bang. (5 claw swipes is the same as a tenderize, and 3 is a half-tenderize). This reply is getting long again so I'll do one more to finish my argument.
15:31-15:36 Correction: With the clutch claw, you had 14 different weapons all trying to perform various actions in various ways. Outside of even just tenderizing and wallbanging, different weapons had different goals when it came to claw usage and different ways of going about it. I've already said how many of the weapons have unique claw combos, but it goes even beyond that. SnS with the claw uppercut can tenderize AND wallbang at the same time. Hit the uppercut, then claw swipe 3 times, and flinch shot. Bam, a tenderize and a wallbang. Many weapons might tenderize just to get slinger ammo for their powerful slinger bursts or effects, like GL wyrmstake blast and IG kinsect feeding. Swaxe might use the claw to get a ZSD on a part they want. Lance might counter claw a charging monster even though it's already tenderized, just to stick to it and get it damage while it's attacking. Heck, any weapon might even use the claw to DODGE attacks on certain monsters. Alatreon and Fatalis both have downward breath moves that offer a chance to claw to the face to dodge AND deal damage. Many times it does just focus on tenderizing and wallbangs, yes. But that doesn't mean there aren't other interesting uses for the claw. Heck, GS and Hammer have glider mantle strats with it if you're into that. Also, don't act like Rise didn't have the 14 different weapons all trying to do the same action in their own ways, that action being counters. Homogenized movesets is a huge issue with Rise and Sunbreak in my opinion due to the absurd amount of counters and I-frames or super armors. Spamming them is an overcentralizing focus on almost every weapon. And if you don't use them, not only do you not do as much damage, you also will have a much harder time because you're way more likely to actually get hit, due to the game being balanced around counters. At least not using clutch claw doesn't increase your chance of getting hit. In fact, it lowers it. 17:26-17:38 This point just feels like it comes from spite. You hate clutch claw, we get it. But saying that World "lies" to you? This is the most nit-picky thing I've ever heard about clutch claw. How about this: The old games lie to you by giving you the village quests with low HP monsters, and then give you the hub quests with insanely bloated health monsters and no single-player scaling. I'm saying this as a person who likes the old games and is playing 3U solo for the first time right now. There's criticisms to be made everywhere. But it really just sounds like you are WANTING to be negative here with this remark about World "lying" to you. You saying stuff like "the clagger is a permanent stain on the game" just makes me think you're robbing yourself of enjoyment by being so negative in general. Sorry if I'm coming off as harsh, but this is just how it seems to me. 18:59 I agree with this. Don't add huge game-changing mechanics in expansions. I just don't think the clutch claw is as games-changing as you and many people claim. Maybe it's my bias from only being introduced to the game after it was already finished, thus never NOT having the clutch claw, but even then, I have played without it before, and it really isn't required. (I thus can also disprove your claim that World "lies" to you about the claw, since I have firsthand experience using it in base World and Iceborne). I saw you playing in Fatalis gear in the video, and at that point, why bother with the claw if you don't want to? Monsters will die fast regardless, and the title update fights took a lot of focus away from the clutch claw as well (besides Safi). I touched on Rajang already, but Stygian Zinogre, Alatreon, and Fatalis all have excellent hitzones all around that make tenderizing not really necessary at all, particularly Alatreon and Fatalis (Tenderizing Fatalis' head literally only increases the hitzone by 1, and for Alatreon it's only by 3). I don't know, I just don't see the point of complaining about clutch claw at this point. Especially using such strong language as "ruined the entire game" and often coming off as framing your opinion as fact. I hope I didn't come off as too rude or aggressive or anything. I just like talking and sharing my opinions, even if (or especially if) they're controversial. I also tend to write long paragraphs lol. I doubt anyone will actually find this comment, much less read all of it, but hey, if you did, congratulations!
You are right with most of your points. But there are couple of things Heavy Wings is unfortunately correct about. The hitzones of the monsters in World were nerfed for MR. It can be checked on MHW Kiranico. For some nerfed hitzones, applying the tenderizing formula would give you the hitzones of base World, making it obvious the nerf was to accommodate the tenderizing mechanic. The tenderizing mechanic is not a neat damage buff, rather not tenderizing is a neat damage loss. It was a bad cure for a manufactured disease. This turned tenderizing into a chore rather than something feeling positive and optional (yes, you can ignore tenderizing and still beat the monsters, but it is objectively playing less efficiently, much like if you were not putting decorations on your armor). The clutch claw would have been a lot better without this unnecessary and frustrating step. Still, with the last update, the tenderizing was just that: an unnecessary and frustrating step added to a solid and grounded gameplay, which still remained solid and good despite it. For the Wirebugs/Switch Skills, sure they may be more fun to play with than the clutch claw, but they transform the gameplay into something barely looking like MH gameplay. The developers also needed to make the monsters react just as over the top to keep up with the increased mobility and powers hunters got. For this, and many other reasons, I much prefer Iceborne to Sunbreak and hope MHWilds will follow MHW road rather than the gimmick fest which is Sunbreak. Having said that, I think the whole "Iceborne is ruined" is biased opinion as all of Heavy Wings arguments could apply to MH4U (the best MH, according to him, no offence to that game as it is one of my favorites). With MH4U Apex monsters, you needed to sharpen your weapon with special stones just for the sake of not bouncing off on Apex armor (which, for some Apex like Deviljho and Zinogre, covered weakspots as well are parts IG normally collects from its red extract) and dealing elemental/statut damage. Their durations were short and the cooldowns long. This was as much of a chore as tenderizing and ignoring or mismanaging this mechanic would cause your DPS to take a nosedive, especially for weapons relying on elemental and statut. Then, there are the lv140 Guild Quests, where the monsters have the triple of their normal G-rank HP (and Heavy Wings thinks Iceborne HP and MR quests lasting 20 minutes with intermediate equipment are too much) and 2-3 times the attack power, meaning they can OS you with half of their moveset. "Oh, but it is pure optional content for hardcore players"? Nope, Guild Quests were the only way to unlock the best charms and, more egregious, the relic weapons. Top tier relic weapons were at least 20% stronger (this is in the range of the tenderizing damage increase we get in Iceborne overall) than the best augmented crafted weapons, yet had an atrocious RNG system behind them, even worse than the Kulve Taroth weapon system. To give you an idea, imagine that when you do drop a Kjarr weapon of the type you want you still have to pray the RNGesus as the raw, sharpness and element/statut (and lack of or need for awaken) are ALSO RNG. An awful system and, for this reason, I cannot put MH4U higher than Iceborne. "Don't like them? Don't use them". Too bad if you were doing lv140 Guild Quests since, as lv140 monsters are HP sponges and can OS you with half of their moves, you want to kill them as fast as possible (in MP, this is done by spamming traps, flash and mounting because otherwise, the failing rates are higher than Iceborne Fatalis). The longer the fights drag on, the exponentially higher your chance of carting due to mistakes. The 20% damage increase from using a top tier relic weapon vs a crafted weapon can be the difference between success and failure, even more so if you play solo and against lv140 Apex monsters as you also have to deal with the bs Apex mechanic (you need to pile up the DPS before your stones run out to temporarily disable the Apex state, then pile up the DPS before the monster returns to Apex state, rinse wash repeat). Again, MH4U is one of my favorite MH games and I can cut it some slack as it was the first MH game to introduce an endgame at all, but dear I much prefer Iceborne endgame to MH4U's and Sunbreak's (the Anomaly investigations essentially being the Guild Quests while replacing the atrocious RNG relic weapons with an as atrocious RNG system: the qurio augment system).
@johan9428 Interesting about the hitzones point, thanks for pointing that out to me! I just took a quick glance at it, and found it a bit interesting seeing some of the hitzones. I did notice a couple of things that I think still let me defend claw a little bit here though. I looked at the Raths first, and the main thing I noticed was that their heads (the main spot you want to hit anyway) didn't go down all that much, only by 5 (I only checked cutting as well, might be much different for ranged in particular) while their wings were knocked WAY down from like 50 to 20 or something. I don't think getting the head specifically nerfed by only a little is that bad, especially considering, as stated before, base World monsters die very quickly. And the Iceborne wing nerf on the Raths actually makes their wings closer to their original hitzones in the old games, so I don't think that change specifically was meant for the claw, it was just re-balancing. (Although Rise interestingly put the wings back at 50. Huh.) Like I said, I joined in only after Iceborne was done, so I can't even imagine how fast a Rathalos would've died in base World with a hitzones of 50 on the wings and 5 more hitzone on the head. Even after the Iceborne changes, base World monsters to me feel like they die way fast even without claw. So I would argue that some of the nerfed hitzones were arguably beneficial for the game regardless of claw or not. I only looked at the Raths and like 2 others though, and I'm not going to claim that they represent the entirety of the roster. Although from looking at Tobi, I noticed something even more interesting. Like you said, some of his hitzones are nerfed about to the level that tenderizing puts them back at what they originally were. But I took a quick glance at his RISE hitzones, and they're actually the same as ICEBORNE'S, not base World's. This makes me question again whether or not all of the hitzone nerfs were purely to balance around clutch claw, and if some of them were really just way too high in the first place. Tobi's tail is 65 after the nerf, and with a tenderize, that goes to 73. That's not even as high as it was in base World, which was just straight up 80. Holy crap that thing would have died fast before Iceborne! Some of the nerfs were just needed, regardless of clutch claw. I mean, poor Pukei! He had a 95 hitzone head in World! No wonder Heavy Wings described base World's difficulty as "nonexistent." Pukei's Iceborne head is only 60, meaning a tenderize only brings that up to 70. That's a much better designed hitzone imo than base World had. They did revert his hitzones in Rise though. But thanks for bringing up the hitzone nerf point to me! I still stand by that it wasn't purely because of claw though as many people make it out to be. There's plenty of examples like I said before of old game monsters with actually buffed hitzones, and base World's terribly underpowered monsters were definitely also a factor in the changes. Also, just to make sure I understand correctly, base World was also effected by Iceborne's hitzone nerfs, right? As in, Pukei-Pukei for example has a 60 hitzone head instead of 95 currently even in low and high rank of World, right?
A few things I can agree with, such as the reset mechanic on monsters being tired - that's too 'gamified' for how realistic and grounded World's combat generally feels, but I feel that your take on the Clutch v Wirebug mechanics are really off. - You say the clutch completely ruined World's combat, to the point you find no fun in it, and that it isn't optional. It is 100% optional, but it is 100% optimal to use. Asmon pretty much beat the entire game barely touching it, or rations for that matter lol. The wirebug is 100% optimal and borderline not optional, it's way too baked into the game. You say that someone will know if they don't like the wirebug and will likely not enjoy the game and seem fine with it, but to me that's such a terrible thing. If you don't like the clutch, you can play without it, just add 5 mins to your hunt. If you don't like the wirebug, you literally lose massive amounts of mobility and sections of your kit, often locking key moves in the process. I can't see how this is a win for Rise.
It sounds like you only have 2 real complaints that aren't related to bugs or sloppy execution: 1) The "clagger", and 2) The tenderizing. I think the saying the clutch claw ruined the game is very hyperbolic, but hey, that's youtube. I like it more than wirebugs for a more "realistic" and "grounded" combat. I think they just need to change its place/importance in the combat flow. I also don't see a problem with some weapons having better clutch claw mechanics than others. Not every weapon is areal and not every weapon is ranged and not every weapon is good at knocking out monsters or cutting tails.
bro accepted it lmao ye i also didnt like it at first but after i got the hang of it its super fun im not sure how good u are at clutch clawing but it gets pretty fun when u understand it fully@@sylnz97
Clutch claw wasn't the best but it was a improvement, it allowed for players to stay on the hunt by riding on the monster so they can follow, the slinger unload allows players who don't get much exhaust the ability to Stun, and it generally improves the combat with heavy hitting clutch claw attacks, some people don't use it because it wasn't necessary for a good hunt, it could expand a player's playstyle, that's why I think It was a good edition
The clutch claw was good; the balancing around it was *horrendous*. Nothing in a monster Hunter game should be borderline required the same way that tenderizing monsters was. I’ve been playing Iceborn Community Edition and wow, the clutch claw is legitimately so fun when it isn’t used purely to annoy the player. The option to flinch a monster and clutch onto it to throw it around or weaken parts for more damage is amazing. But with they way its balanced in vanilla it’s not even an option, you basically have to do it.
I want to comment on the wirebug chapter, but first I'll say I play Iceborne with the ICE mod, and it solves the clutch claw/clagger issues. Onto wirebugs: I agree with everything you said, HOWEVER, I don't think the wirebug is comparable to the clutch claw. The clutch claw is a massive inconvenience on top of solid MH gameplay (restored by the ICE mod). On the other hand, the wirebug is the feature that Sunbreak is designed around. Like you said, you either like it or you realize Sunbreak may not be for you, but you cannot even try to ignore the feature. Why would you want to ignore wirebugs? I think they very negatively the flow of combat. Forget about positioning, just stand still and counter, every weapon can. What attack should you prioritize at this point in the fight? Almost always wirebug. Do you play charge blade? Then forget about any attack other than SAED. I'm not exaggerating, just counter to max phials and let it rip over, and over, and over. Don't even worry about getting hit. In fact, if you watch some speedruns, it's actually optimal to SAED, get hit, wirebug recover, counter, SAED. This is related to the other huge issue: monsters. I won't get into this since it's a whole other topic, but, for charge blade specifically, many monsters move so fast that when you commit to an SAED you are agreeing to get hit. The solution to fast monsters is also wirebug related: the pizza cutter. Some people like it, but I find it very boring. Stand still, bzzzzz, wirebug shield, bzzzzz, repeat. In both playstyles, charge blade boils down to standing still and spamming wirebug skills. Notice that I never mentioned sword mode or guard points.
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Check out this video where I explain why I believe 4 Ultimate to be the best Monster Hunter game!
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I feel Cluth claw gave us the best way a practical human being can get close to a Bigass monster which are always moving faster being bigger.. the Worse thing is wirebugs in Rise and monster riding.. Monster riding removed the ELEGANCE, the Attitude & personality of monster.. Like really ( Riding shagaru magala, Rajang, riding on wind lord Kushala itself fyck off )
@@SpadeApeiron No mechanic should directly affect damage numbers as the game becomes inevitably balanced around it and the mechanic is forced on you. The Clutch Claw should have only increased partbreak damages or been a reasonably powerful attack, which would have felt more of a reward for getting the opening. The Clutch Claw can shatter from the get-go Kulve Taroth's arms and chest gold armor and is the only way to safely punish Alatreon's floor is ice attack. The Clutch Claw should have been focused on stuff like that rather than tenderizing hitzones, which doesn't make sense as clutch claw attacks are average damage at best, why are your regular high damaging attacks not tenderizing too?
@@johan9428 Yea good point
~ Clutch claw mechanic should have had limited uses and when it used tactically it'd be like our SUPER move. in case of safijiva we have to use Clutch claw to partbreak. without clutchclaw Safijiva quest can never be completed..
How iceborne ruined this channel
The expansion was enjoyable, one of the biggest expansions sold in gaming, millions of people love it, except a guy on here who felt like whining about a gimmic in a game where shotguns can be made from a hide of a monster
@@brianleal87 I disagree with Heavy Wings saying that the clutch claw ruined the entire game as I still like it a lot for everything else. But he is right when he says that the tenderizing mechanic is a neat negative which brings nothing good to the gameplay, only makes it more tedious for the sake of it. The tenderizing mechanic is viewed by most players as the worst thing to have ever been implemented in MH. I would personally be fine with the clutch claw without the tenderizing mechanic and all the balancing around it. But the tenderizing mechanic? I hope we never see it or something similar ever again in future games.
I wonder if the clutch claw's importance was a result of a lack of focus on singleplayer testing. I felt it was a lot less overbearing when the task of softening was shared between more players. Though to be honest I didn't mind the clutch claw all that much and enjoyed iceborne a lot despite it.
That is a good point. In four players, 1 clagger = 4 tenderized spots. As a solo player, you get one and it is notl like you will have access to this tenderized spot non-stop.
Probably, as a solo hunter, the few time I had one or more people helping made this almost imperceptibly.
The point is that the hunts in IB took too long without tenderizing with clutch claw. The game relied too heavily on clutch claw. Base game was fine.
Despite but not thanks to
I was elemental LBG main in worlds and unless u have some1 softening the right parts for ranged damage u will go 2-4 times per fight to camp to restock ammo or run around farming....
You bring up good points but overall, I still like Iceborne's combat more than Sunbreak, because of Rise / Sunbreak's over reliance on counters. You mentioned you like more grounded combat and Rise is very very far from grounded combat, it made hunters feel like superheroes. Not to mention wyvern riding removed the threat of having 2 monsters on the map by making them essentially just a free damage boost instead.
Rise/sunbreak feels more like a God eater title than a mh one, prolly just me tho.
I prefer world's grounded combat and speed, but I really dislike the clutch claw. I have over 1300 hours in iceborne but you'll never see me defend the clutch claw. Sunbreak has its thing with being really fast paced and frontloading a lot of the weapons most powerful attacks to silkbinds, but as a whole I vastly prefer wirebugs over the clutch claw, even though for mh6 I hope they got rid of both. Mh6 should just have world's grounded combat with sunbreaks switch skills and I'll be happy
@@WisdomAkpan211 no, I agree, I didnt like that the clutch claw tenderize because it became mandatory. If it was just an optional damage boost mechanic that hunters can do, it would have been better.
Wirebugs was implemented properly by being a core mechanic, however, it made the whole game to become a DPS fest instead. With almost every weapon having a counter, hunters didnt mind their positioning much anymore, in fact for some of the strongest weapons, they want the monster hit them so they can shortcut into their strongest attacks which to me was kinda backwards thinking. In older games we were rewarded for knowing proper positioning, knowing the monsters AOE but instead in Rise we press a button just before a monster hits and we get rewarded with even more damage.
Overall, I have the same sentiments. Keep only the grounded stuff and bake them into the weapon movesets, remove the silkbind moves (especially the shortcuts which ignore the resource mechanics of weapns and the counters because not every weapon should have a counter IMO) and no clutch claw and claggers (slinger could stay or not, clutch claw could become its own weapon). Having switch skills (not switch skill swap) would expand the movesets too without making the controls too complicated and we can kinda make our own "Styles" but nothing to drastic from the core of the weapons themselves.
@forlogic53 I was looking for the best comment I could find so that I could respond. I agree with your comment in almost every way. But my agreement is primarily about how you articulated the way that IB 'feels' versus Rise. You are absolutely right about how wirebugs changed weapons AND the hunts themselves. Positioning, timing, knowledge of your weapons' capabilities, etc are what made world spectacular. Nothing is the same in rise. (Hell, any time you can pick up a SnS and it has more base raw than a hammer of the same rarity you have a problem).
I only disagree with ppl who do think claw inhibits the flow. I started with the franchise in MHW so cluth claw has always been integrated into my playstyle. I just dislike its' inaccuracy.
I tend to agree, and to be honest, Rise’s combat just wasn’t for me. However, like the video said, it was like that from the beginning. No bait and switch.
I think the biggest issue with the clutch claw is tenderizing.
If it had been a tool to grab on for an extra hit with some weapons and for blademaster weapons to get easier hits on flying monsters, I think that would have been a great addition.
Wallbangs are a more gray area in quality, but I think they're cool. I think they should have been nerfed though.
In a sense yeah, but even without the tenderising the claw is just weirdly implemented. The aiming not really working, only some weapons having integrated combos, being thrown off constantly etc. It was not a good idea to add it in the expansion.
@@HeavyWings
Personally, I had little issue with the Claw. Sure it adds tenderizing but as a SnS player often unless I get more chances to do it, I'm better off just finding the other spots to whack a monster. Times I use the claw are
-avoid an attack
-tenderize specific monster spots over time to make certain stuff easier to do, such as Rajang legs in case I just wish to add damage in.
-Extra damage on a fleeing monster
-The Wallbang.
I will say though the big swords should of gotten faster animations for their big tenderizers.
I still prefer the clutch over Wirebugs though anyday. Personally find then very clunky and it wasn't until freaking Narwa that I figured out how they work. Even then, I don't get the shifts, I see people abuse it and get slapped to death, and it ain't my cup of tea.
There's also nothing quite like Alatreon shredding through your mantle when you clutch his head and mercing you. That's a fun anti-claw thing and it naturally plays in with finding openings on the guy.
yeah wallbangs are fun to pull of but it like with Rise.. that can be integrated in the mounting bit.
@@Ramotttholl
I actually don't like mounting in Rise either, and it ties into the general dislike of Wirebugs. I really enjoyed the actual strat of mounting the Monster for a good knockdown in World. Now it's just yeeting around and stuff
Edit; should clarify its specifically the stamina contest. Alatreon and Fatalis are pretty fun to hop on but a mistake can potentially ruin the attempt. Those dashes are brutal.
and the real issue with tenderizing is that they make monsters with dogshit hitzones to balance it out, forcing you to use the clunk claw
Credit where credit is due: The Clutch Claw made fighting certain monsters (*COUGH* KIRIN *COUGH*) actually fun and bearable. Bouncing off of Kirin when it was enraged was not fun. With the clutch claw, all we had to do was make sure to keep it tenderized. It certainly beat trying to aim for the horn in vain.
I agree with this statement can't wait for rise to come to console next year on January 20th 2023
hmm after beaten velkhana 4 times, this was the first time I even heard about cluth claw. XD I'm so blind
@@Felix-dh9tl try beat AT Velkhana without clutch claw lol
@@famicom89 yeah sounds like pain… slamming monsters in the wall is pretty nice
Break horn -people who fight elders.
As a Lance main, the counter clutch claw move was pure heaven. Just waiting like a Matadore against a charging bull, only to slam right back against their face with KO inducing force. Granted, the application and sheer necessity did get old.
As another lance main, i want this move in mh6 even though the clutch claw will be removed probably
as a new lance main, this move is the entire reason why i started maining it. (i love it now)
The poor integration between all the weapons is the reason why Lance is my favorite weapon in World. The counter feels actually integrated into the moveset and helps keeps the uptime on tenderization without breaking the flow, and the super armor is something all the weapons should have had
You also have a def boost and a resistance to being thrown off if you "counter grab" but i main lance and i will be honest it keep you from sharpening alots
Same with Dual Blades, clutch clawing mid combo meant you never had to stop attacking to aim and grapple on
The hammer combo is pretty cool too but all the other ones are weird or completely breaks the immersion
Insect glaive had a kinda similar system where you would be flying to reposition anyways, so instead of descending thrust you can descending clutch.
Kinda still sucked because you need to tenderize twice
Clutching with the bow is too smooth to complain about and is perfect for dodging sweeping attacks.
The Clutch Claw is why I installed the Iceborne Community Edition (ICE) mod. The modders rebalanced the game to make the CC an optional tool and not mandatory by restoring hitzone values and reducing the effectiveness of softening.
I do mention that mod near the end of the video. I would download it but I want to beat Iceborne as it is at least one more time because the mod rebalances a lot of things.
I wish you could mod console games. That would help a lot in ps4 for me lol
Oh, that's cool!
@@chadderbug7587 same. I have 6k+ hours in World, and honestly, 4u is probably my favorite next to FU.
I remember thinking a few hundred hours in, "I'm not enjoying this like the others," and that was _before_ the clutch claw.
I find I liked MH more as a hunting sim-like. There are videos on how Hunting "lost" its roots that are great teachers of the old ways. I'm rare enough as a PSP solo player convert, but those even fewer I met as PS2 adopters from first and second gen... that would have been my paradise.
I wish I could use it, but reject their Longsword changes...
Never realized the clutch claw wasn't part of the base game, I just remember not spamming it as much back when I played it on my brother's PS4, and thinking why I didn't use it as much. Probably cause it didn't exist lol.
The mandatory tenderizing is what kills me about clutch claw. They can incorporate clutch claw in different ways but instead they made the hunt more of a chores.
@@Knights_of_the_Nine i think you played a different game if you think clutch claw auto stagger the monster.
Not only they nerf some jewel so they can incorporate tenderizing to the skill, they also ruin the flow of combat by adding clagger to the monster.
And no, I can't pretend the clutch claw is not there if my damage output got downscale because i don't tenderize the monster.
@ilham adi gunawan The only way your damage is "downscaled" by the claw is the WEX nerf. Seeing it as a nerf if you don't use it (instead of a buff if you do) is a pessimistic attitude, which of course would lead you to hate it. And face it, WEX is OP and needed a nerf. Even if you don't use the claw at all, it's still the best skill in the game.
And if you try to say that the nerfed hitzones are a way your damage was downscaled, nerfed monster hitzones to try and force the claw is really just... not a thing. I'm sorry, it's just not. To my knowledge, no base game monsters actually had their hitzones significantly changed going into Iceborne, at least not to the extent to make claw "required" (which it never was). What DID happen was that some monster SUBSPECIES like Coral Pukei-Pukei and Acidic Glavenus ended up with worse overall hitzones than their base species, but that usually happens with subspecies anyway. Plus, even then, those monsters still always had one or more hitzones that was able to get the first part of WEX that didn't require the claw, just like every other monster.
This isn't even mentioning that World was the first game with single player scaling. Outside of base World, Iceborne at the time was literally the easiest MH game to solo, claw or not.
And claggers REALLY don't happen that often at the endgame of Iceborne. Title Update monsters especially almost NEVER clagger, and Fatalis doesn't even have one at all. You're lucky if you get a single clagger to happen on a Rajang or Alatreon.
I could go on, but unless you want to continue the discussion, I won't bother you with a longer comment lol.
(EDIT: I have now actually seen proof that hitzone nerfs were indeed a thing in Iceborne and now feel dumb for claiming they weren't lol. I still maintain my opinion though that they weren't severe enough to make tenderizing "mandatory." The most severe nerfs from what I can tell were on already easy monsters like Pukei-Pukei and Tobi-Kadachi. But something like Rathalos and Rathian's heads were only nerfed by around 5, which isn't a huge difference on an already great hitzone.)
It's not mandatory. You're just Long sword user and you're not given a good option with this system.
Or a bow gun user, or a hunting horn user, or a
@@Andrew-hz5zc firstly, i don't know ehat WEX is, sorry haha
And for your other take, it's fair but the general gist I'm getting at is i still feel even though statistical and system wise it's a minor nerfs, it's still bugs me that everytime my TCS hit, there's a small amount of different in the damage number if i tenderize it or not.
And everytime the monster got to clagger state, i always miss my hit because the state itself demands the player to at least cluch to the monster, either to wallbang it or to tenderize it (or to reset the clagger timer), not to mention how far the monster position are before and while in clagger state. It's aggravating at least for me, and i love my ooga booga big TCS number lol
now that i see the lance CC move it makes me think of that one meme with the a dude slowly approaching you with his arm in an open state.
and now i'll never unsee it
The wall bangs and attacks weapons got were what I liked about the clutch claw. But the forced tenderizing and being required to do certain things with it for specific monsters got very tedious. So I love the idea of the claw, it’s just the implementation of it is at best mixed.
@@brownboy1468 if we don’t like it, we don’t like it. Simple as. It’s a fucking boring and annoying tool to use. And I don’t like having to stop what I’m doing to tenderize some part or else I’ll miss out on big damage. Don’t tell us to stop complaining over literal personal opinions.
@@brownboy1468 You aren't someone that likes to play with optimization which is fine but for those of us that do the cc is a dogshit addition
@@brownboy1468 Look, I don’t think cc is a huge deal most of the time either and for most monsters, I think it can be largely ignored. But…take a look at a monster like Safi’Jiiva, or Fatalis, these monsters have huge health pools and tiny time limits in comparison to the rest of the monsters. If you don’t use the cc for these monsters, which offer some of the best gear in the game, more likely than not you will NOT be winning and by proxy, not be able to acquire some of the best end game gear
@@bonkusdonkus3743 skill issue
@@setya4540 virgin
10:01 - Seeing this HP chart makes me think that in MH10 monsters will have the same HP as Borderlands raid bosses
Oh Shit. 😨
We already got Frontier for that.
The slinger itself was fine, I especially loved catching endemics and making pets of them, but yeah, needing to tenderize and wall bash every single monster was a chore.
So true. I loved the pets and just got addicted to trying to get all the crowns. Lol. But tenderizing is definitely a chore. Especially on Safi’jiiva. Good grief is that fight just overly tedious.
Tenderizing is a chore yeah, but you don't have to wall bang if you don't want to dude
@@Slepepeit's was? All I can remember is people failing the mission cause they choose to put tenderizing above their own future. Ain't that the reason it gets mad and well... attacks you without chill? So you can't depend on it and actually play the game with the damage you get without tenderizing
@@Cataclysm999 I played the entire game and 100% it without the claw I maybe used it a hand full of times at the very start of the game in the test area, hell I still don't know how to tenderize to this day nor wall bang you can act like it doesn't exist and still be able to do all the content like no joke I've been able to do the hardest hunts in the game solo without ever using the claw the only use I found from it was shooting stuff out of it to keep the monster from fleeing and shooting a environment piece like the huge rock falling.
I only use the claw to hitch a ride on the monster when he is running away then I hop off when low stam. CB user here and I don't need to tenderize shiiiiiet.
Im a switch blade user and I love the clutch claw. Yes it is kind of annoying to miss or my attacks get canceled but i just try harder or figure out another strategy to use my abilities more often.
Swax
Also it gave us less reasons to have self preservation
That's because you're a fanatic. XD
I played through World and Iceborne on both PC and PS4. On PS4 I got World at launch, played it extensively, and then picked it up again once Iceborne came out. Upon starting Iceborne, the absolute tank that was Beotodus really slapped me in the face. I couldn't believe how big of a jump it was in difficulty from base World!
I then played Iceborne even more extensively than I did World. And around the time Fatalis launched I had built myself a PC and was working my way through a PC save of World. Once I got to Iceborne I remembered how much of a tanky bastard Beotodus was and bracing myself for another 20 minute hunt.
But that's not what happened. All my time playing Iceborne on PS4 had made me more than adept at using the clutch claw and flinch shot to their full effectiveness, and since I was playing on PC with both lances and hammers, my weapons of choice meshed extra well with it. I ended up taking down Beotodus just as fast as any other hunt in Iceborne, tacking a couple minutes onto the timer to account for my usage of high rank equipment. The difference between using the claw and not using it is very, very easily felt, and it's a night and day difference unfortunately.
I went through the same process, except i went from Xbox to ps4. I also remember struggeling in a long drawn out battle with Beotodus the first go. The second go round was smooth. Though I honestly don't believe it was from the clutch claw. When I first fought Beo, I was not only new to the monster. But also new to the damage, speed and health it had. I struggled to recognize openings because I wasn't used to the snow. I struggled in all aspects. The second time we met, I was fully comfortable with every element of that fight. Whether i used the clutch claw or not, it was going to go smoothly because I was at a COMPLETELY different skill level then I was the first time. I came into that fight better prepared mentally and also better equipped.
i can agree but most fights were generally 20mins. so if it didn't exist you be forced into a 20 min hunt. it just makes it easier. also to me it never felt needed hell i rarely even noticed the difference
The clutch claw looks like it should have just been a gap closer. Like it could be used to move with the monster for certain attacks like greatsword charges.
Adamant charge wirebug skill
@@Tomix4k byeah
That's what wirebugs are in rise.
People hate the necessity of clutch claw in world but in rise where not using a wirebug counter or wirebug skill is a DPS loss they like it
@@Alatyreon Wirbugs aren't just a dps loss. They are kinda your main defence for specific weapons that can't block.
I totally agree, the best part of the clutch claw was the attacks it gave some weapons, I love Greatsword, gunlance, Lance and Hammer to begin with so it was a really nice edition.
I hated tenderizing monsters and everything else around it though.
Yeah the Lance counter is a lot of fun!
I for some reason like the sns roll/claw move too, is even useful to doge some attacks
I didn't ay many weapons in World, but I liked that you could combo into a clutch grab with the hammer pretty easily.
Then there's IG. I hated and always avoided the claw. It was horribly difficult to aim from the air, so it didn't matter that you could use it airborne lol. I never got the muscle memory down of clicking the stick to swap to clutch claw, so I'd end up sheathing first. It wasn't til endgame of Iceborne that I felt really forced to tenderize
Honestly I only ever use clutch claw to wall bang. I'm not one to tenderize. It just means my hunts take a bit longer
wirebugs made the game so piss easy to deal big chunks of damage consistently through the arts and risk free with the insane movement, I don't get how anyone can stand behind them.
because it is fun to use? xd maybe?
Its fun to use compared to klutch claw and give many differents way to use a weapon which I feel World kinda lack, I like World btw both games got flaws.
Rise main problem is the base game monsters are kinda not balanced enough around Wirebug's mobility and firepower but Sunbreak do fix that with some monsters having some moves that you need to use wirebugs mobility to dodge their attacks, just a bit scummy how you need to pay a dlc to play the better version of the game but welp its Capcom...
Wirebugs are very easy to use compared to the claw and boost the speed of play similarly to generations
Clutch claw had the consistency of a crane machine claw. They gave you a free clutch claw stagger because it was literally that awkward to use
I'll take a mechanic that's designed for each weapon to make unique use of that cleanly fits into the games combat and is essentially an extension of each weapon's moveset vs a slow, janky, barely functional grappling hook with bad auto aim that barely half the weapons have any interaction with through their normal moveset
For some reason I feel more invested in MH games when the combat is more grounded instead of hunter arts or wirebugs.
Absolutely, I really dislike both of those mechanics. It's also one of the reasons why I didn't really connect with Rise. In Rise you feel more like some superhero/demigod than a Hunter.
@robinmattheussen2395 I know, monsters are punching bags most of the time, and barely any preparation before the quest, no bombs, no meat, traps, flash bombs, just beat it until it dies.
@@anrc5439 no preparation before quests started with world though, i never prepared for quests in base world because it was such a joke difficulty wise, only used flash bombs on like 2 annoying monsters and forgot about bombs and traps altogether outside of capture quests, not to mention things like movi g while healing and the pathetic damage monsters deal make you feel like a demigod.
@@anrc5439Idk man, the monsters had a massive speed boost in rise and especially in sunbreak. The 90% of Iceborne's roster ain't adapted to the clutch claw.
I still think to date 4 has the best combat because it was the last one without any major gimmicks getting in the way
I love World as it is, but your analyisis on the clutch claw is pretty fair. I think it would be better if they added the mounting mechanics to the clutch claw. For example, if the monster attacks, instead of it making you instanly fall off, it would drain your stamina quickly unless you hold on to the monster. And you can tenderize as many parts as you want for the amount of stamina you have.
I know this is an old video, but I am a new player who just got through all of base world with 2 other friends and while the cc felt fine through most of it, as soon as I got to iceborne, I noticed the MESS of design that is the fact that you are supposed to tenderize before being able to do pretty much any damage while also making all the new mobs super fast and reducing all forms of cc you'd use in the base game. It felt like the entire game was made insuferably frustrating and more boring just to force me to use a tool that I already had a mentality of "I need to learn this tool jsut ot have it, even though I don't have to" before. What a mess of a decision, and having 99% of comments online be copium sniffing "no, the game is perfect you're just bad, git gud" stuff is nothing but toxic.
The cc didn't ruin iceborn for me, although the combination of forced tenderization, faster monsters, insane healthpools and frustratingly un-stoppable mobs that constantly cc you back almost made me quit the franchise forever. Had I not had the cool head to realize that this might just be one wall and I need to push through and the entire game/franchise may not be like this, I'd prlly left MH forever at barioth.
Cue all the answers to this comment being like "no, you're just bad, git gud"
Finally, someone who gets it that isnt blinded by World being there first game and thinking its flawless
@@drxavier1870 World is also my first MH game and the moment I set foot in iceborne i said "this feels extremely poor, design wise". Had pretty pleasant experience in base world while iceborne felt so bad, still does. The large increase in HP, mandatory tenderizing, having to wallbang to get the damage in, the fact monsters are so fast that if you play slow weapon (I play CB) you have to wait for an opening which at times takes extremely long (which ties into poor design of massive HP and mandatory tenderizing) unless you create that opening with wallbang or do a 1 attack punish (at most 2) after you learn the moveset of the enemy. Now, learning moveset on your first attempt is not gonna happen, which is normal, so you aren't getting a lot of punishes, and the ones you do get result in very minimal damage overall (taking the entire HP into account, monster speed and their ability to stun you frequently since you don't know their moveset on your first attempt, and even few attempts after that). The amount of times I've said "Can I play the game please?" while going through iceborne is absurd. I don't think I've said that so many times in my 25 years of gaming, that's how poorly designed iceborne is in my opinion. As the good person above said, many might come and say "git gud" but that's just a phrase everyone throws nowadays. Played harder games than this, nothing wrong with not being good as a new player in the game, problem is when not being good in the game as a new player is tied to game being unfair with poor design (stunned into cart because on the same move that killed you, monster attacked after 2 seconds the first time, but second time it attacked after 4, since you decided to wait the full duration of getting up) and not your skill. The problem isn't getting gud, you get good by playing more and learning, problem is if gameplay itself isn't good/doesn't feel good, which is how iceborne feels. Apparently, to capcom, increasing the difficulty means this: Make monster extremely fast, give it large HP and make it attack non stop for 1-2 minutes. Again, you will find openings in those monsters after you have learned their moveset, but it's not a good design if only openings you find that aren't 1 attack punish for 50-100 damage on a 20k or more HP come after you have fought them enough to learn entire moveset. That's just poor design. They just made everything so fast/aggressive/relentless/tanky just because they screwed up and introduced new mechanics game didn't need in the first place (clutch claw/tenderizing). You can make the game harder without resorting to cheap and bad mechanics. So I am forced to wallbang a monster for big opening to do damage. Okay. I wallbang a monster, get my big damage in. Capcom's answer to this as a "balance" counterplay? Monster is now enraged for 45-60 seconds, where it's faster and more aggressive. That to me is the most lazy and uninspired design ever. Forcing me to use something that shouldn't have been in the game and I find not fun and good to use just because they didn't know how to make the game difficult in a proper way so they resorted to most bland option, make them extremely fast and tanky. Majority of iceborne monsters don't feel good to fight. They are just sponges that move at lightning speed and force you to use bad and unfun mechanics they added for god knows which reason. Anyway, base world was okay for the most part, iceborne is just a boring pushover with nothing really interesting in it.
@@BleedingMem0ry ok i disagree on the fight part theres some really fun monsters in World but yeah Clutch Claw is stupid because its forced but also meta. Agitator LvL is bassically manditory because the Monster is always enraged or on the floor.
Im glad you see the issues though, most people just say Skill Issue or treat Iceborne like its the second coming of Jesus and perfection
And most people shit on Wirebugs in Rise despite the Clutch Claw being way more centralizing and punishing NOT to use
@@drxavier1870 Yeah, there were a few fun fights. Problem is if there are 200 monsters in the game but only 5 of them are fun and the remaining 195 are dull, boring and annoying because they are practically the same, and the only difference between them is their size. Nothing is flawless in this world, if people treat this expansion as flawless they actually need to play more games instead of only playing this one. This is among most flawed games ever made, so I find it funny really that people call it flawless, I guess they don't know better and never played a game with really good design choices. Yeah, going in without agitator is just losing damage because of reasons you mentioned, absolutely correct. It's forced on the player, much like the poor design choice that is the clutch claw. Nice to see someone understands things and can point out the horrible decisions capcom made with iceborne.
in that old monster hunter world proto-demo, it featured part of the clutch claw, just the shooting ammo into the head thing.
i see that that had plans for using it ever since that demo
The way you describe how Clutch Claw affects Iceborne reminds me of slag in Borderlands 2's Ultimate Vault Hunter Mode. Coincidentally both these can ruin the flow of combat if your build doesn't synergise with it and the game can become a slog if you don't use them.
Great point. Slag ruined bl2 for me.
wow almost like end game requires a certain build. Dont play end game content then.
@@sutnack7537division 2 does not require any specific build. There are hundreds of them to be made. Not sure wtf you talking about
. The division 2 isnt the best example of a quality loot game. Just saying
Never had that much an issue with the clutch claw. I recently started Rise and noticed that the rhythm and weight of attacks feels much less impactful. And monsters tend to be quite relentless in attacks to the point of stunlocking me to cart. That barely ever happened in World. World had a slower methodical pace and I liked that a lot. A lot of Rise faster pace can be found in the Wirebug moves. A lot of them are dash, lunge or counter based. Makes sense but also means the rhythm is much less forgiving.
That being said, I do see the argument of clutch law being not fully integrated. The idea fitted the more methodical style but it was kinda just aiming in the wrong direction. My gripe is a different one, with clutch claw anything regarding slingshot that was not triggering boulders to fall down became borderline useless. I liked using the slingshot as a tool in the arsenal. But most MR creatures had outright immunity. Behemoth was an entire fight dedicated to the slingshots functionality. That died with iceborne. Maybe a nerv had to be down. But I dont remember or caring what I shot at most wyverns as long as they took damage from what was falling down. It's a shame. One mechanic should replace the one established earlier in the same game.
To me riding and clutch claw in iceborne is roughly the same as Wirebug riding in rise. Just with less agency over it. It's going to happen anyway and it's basically both a gloryfied qte.
Jump moves were one of my favorites in world, especially when they ended in a ride. In Rise you can pull them of so easy they had to be nerfed into the ground. Which is a shame. I think if clutch claw was simply giving access to maneuver to and around a creature that would have been fine.
That's because you're a fanatic, so no; what you say doesn't count. XD
@@IncognitoActivado how does that make sense? XD
@@BlackStrey Because fanaticism is bad, obviously. ;)
@@IncognitoActivado it's more how im a fanatic. But I take that^^
@@BlackStrey I'm glad to know that you accept the truth of why your opinions will never matter; It's a big step you're taking. :)
The only weapon that I really used the clutch claw with was my switch axe because it made it easier to get on the certain monster parts, and use its ability to do major damage to that one part specially if you wanted to cut tails off, it was pretty much the only weapon I need the clutch claw for.
The asmongold clowns in the comments are funny. 99% of them are skill issue with no argument or points afterwards. There is criticism then there is fair criticism. How sad his audience cant make a coherent argument.
They are no different than people that shape their views to fit with their favorite celebrities.
They're just idolizers worshipping another figure.
Use the claw. Use the claw. Use the claw...
Attempts to use the claw on a beastie flailing around... After three tries targeting the head, I end up on its hind leg and then I get damage, fireblight and poison from its mouth. Mm. Logical.
The biggest thing from when I started World to buying Iceborn, was that almost all my weapons would bounce off without tenderizing. You could fight a monster in the base game, have your attacks go through, then buy the DLC and then suddenly tenderizing was an integral mechanic.
I've always wondered why I didn't like the claw as much as I liked the wirebugs, and I realise it all comes down to tenderizing. I wholeheartedly believe I wouldn't love the wirebugs as much as I do if they kept the tenderizing mechanic. Sure, wirebugs are basically the claws taken to the extreme, but it's the fun part of that extreme. Instead of aiming a specific part of the monster, I can just zip onto or zip away wherever and whenever. Instead of tenderizing, we have silkbinds that are completely optional to use and are only mandatory for certain builds(the switchaxe counter is kinda important to build up the gauge in power phial switchaxes). In Sunbreak I can play like a traditional hunter, just a lot faster and more mobile, or utilise the bugs to their fullest potential. In Iceborne, the claw is a must.
Anyways, that's why I don't like the claw I guess.
World was my first Monster Hunter, and Iceborne was fuckin' tight as fuck, but as soon as I got to Alatreon I started to realize that something had been nagging at me, and that was "Mandatory playstyle."
I loved World because I could fuck around and still manage to beat the monsters. My friends and I had a lot of fun fighting random things, screaming, making armor, etc.
None of us used the Slinger almost at all, save to flashbug monsters out of the air.
But then the Clutch Claw came along.
I didn't mind it at first, but it was like an itch I was sort of ignoring. I noticed that every single hunt started feeling exactly the same. Clutch claw tenderize, hit that part for 1 minute, wallbangs, claggers, etc., with our actual fighting being like 80% "Beat it up while it's on the ground after a wallbang."
The game completely ceased feeling dynamic and just felt formulaic. No matter the monster, same routine. Clutch to its head, smash it into a wall, beat it up, bonus points if we put barrel bombs by the wall beforehand, tenderizing, etc.
I started like, viscerally hating that if you weren't attacking the Tenderized part, you were doing like 25% damage, and sometimes would just clang off of them. It went from "Attack the part you're trying to break" or "Attack the head to try to get a stun" or "Attack the tail to cut it," to "Attack the tenderized part or you're wasting everyone else's time."
Now that brings me to Alatreon.
Why'd he make me realize the playstyle felt mandatory?
Because after 300 attempts at Alatreon, my friends and I finally realized that it was basically mandatory to bring Fire weapons on two of us and Ice weapons on the other two, and we literally had to DPS-check break the horns at specific intervals or else we failed the hunt. The game was literally forcing us, very suddenly, to play a very specific way or we couldn't progress at all.
That's when it all hit me like a ton of bricks. Alatreon's elemental weaknesses and the mandatory horn breaking, the Clutch Claw tenderizing and wallbangs, they weren't just "Do these to make the fight go faster," they were "Do these or you'll fail the hunt because there's no way you'll beat the DPS-checks or hunt timer otherwise."
I only beat Fatalis one time in World, and that was it, I gave up after that, threw in the towel, and even though my friends kept playing for another full year I had completely lost interest in it because I do not like being punished for not utilizing mandatory gimmicks like the Clutch Claw, wallbanging and the Alatreon ice/fire/hornbreak gimmicks.
A game like Monster Hunter is fun when the most important choices you make are what weapon fits your playstyle, what decorations you have and how much knowledge you have of a monster's attack patterns.
But it rapidly screeches to a catastrophic twenty car pile-up of unfun-ness when the game very suddenly says "Alright idiot, here's a brand new gimmick, and if you don't use it and get good at using it and reuse it to weaken body parts on the monster literally every minute, you're a fucking idiot and you're gonna fail the hunt. Fuck you."
So tldr: Improve your reading comprehension it's not the end of the world to take 1 minute and 45 seconds to read a comment.
Sounds like a skill issue to me
I found ICE to be quite helpful. My main gripe with IB was the guiding lands since it was very grindy to get all the way to MR100 and level regions solo. The CC balancing made Ruiner much more enjoyable for me since trying to tenderize him felt extremely difficult. The only downside of ICE is that almost no other mods work with it.
I hear ICE also does things like make the Fatalis gear not so overpowered. Just a massive rebalance of the entire game.
ICE is good but it doesn't fix any of the problems I had with the game pre-Iceborne. Like how bad the stun effects are and other monsters constantly interrupting your hunts. It got really old really fast and it often feels like I'm spectating instead of playing.
Three times I've played through Iceborne and three times I never bothered with tenderizing (maybe I should on a few monsters with harder to reach weak zones, but frankly, the vast majority of monsters have weak zones which are perfectly accessible). I only consistently use clutch claw for wall bangs and on that I agree it's annoying to sometimes grab a monster's forelimb instead of the head (the chances of which can be reduced drastically by simply aiming and timing your grab better), but that's hardly anything which "ruins" such a good game. And without tenderizing, you can still defeat the Iceborne monsters in a reasonable amount of time (around 15 minutes for most, sometimes 20+ for elders and such, but almost never more than 25).
I have to say, I think it's weird to be praising wirebugs as being so well balanced and integrated (at least, I definitely think your in the minority opinion on that one) when they only made Rise more easy and sloppy thanks to wirefall (sloppy because you don't have to play as solid; you can get hit, wirefall, chug, go back in). To try and compensate for all of the crazy movement options hunters have with the wirebug, Sunbreak gave many of the upper tier monsters new hard tracking attacks which are kind of cheap and sometimes odd looking. Sunbreak also raised the damage done by monsters as all G Ranks do, but unless a monster can one shot you, wirefall is still a get out of jail free card for the most part. Those aforementioned tracking attacks and new counters for various weapons also encourage you to use a parry-based playstyle in order to kill monsters faster thanks to fewer natural openings. There is also the palamutes and how they again change combat to make things easier (free fast movement with no stamina worries, easy sharpening, etc.). There are issues with Rise/Sunbreak (and I like Sunbreak, but I think Iceborne is the better top to bottom package for sure, and going back to play through all of World/Iceborne again while still playing through Sunbreak confirmed that without a shadow of a doubt) that many others have with it which you overlooked while concluding that you think Sunbreak is objectively the overall better game.
When it comes to my MonHun background, I started with 3U and have G-Rank soloed that game, 4U, GU, Iceborne, and now Sunbreak. I'm glad I started with 3U because (small rant incoming) 4U superfans are the worst (and I mean no disrespect to anyone whose favorite is 4U but isn't a snob about the other games) with the way they hold up that game as near perfect (and I like 4U, but it has its own love or hate quirks just the same as any other Monster Hunter) but tend to nitpick every other game in the series as falling short because of one mechanic or unbalanced element that supposedly ruins the game by comparison. At least FU superfans don't deny the bad hitboxes in that one even if they feel like it's the only true hardcore Monster Hunter game. And fans brought in by World who don't like the older games are the most looked down upon by many MonHun vets anyhow (sometimes unfairly, since only the ones who dismiss the older games outright because of lesser graphics, loading zones, or not having the same QoL improvements deserve our scorn; and the vets who happen to love Rise but assume that anyone who has issues with it is a clueless World noob, well, you guys are deluding yourselves). None of the games are free of controversial or somewhat broken elements. None of them. And in a way, that's what gives each of them their own unique identity.
commenting to boost this because I couldn't agree more with it. I really only tenderized people like fatalis, alatreon and safi'jiva. The other times I was tenderizing I was just gap closing
So as a solo casual player, I can play most of the main content in Iceborne without clutch claw without feeling like I'm playing the game wrongly? Just asking as a new player because all of this is really confusing and making me not want to play Iceborne and just stick to the base game.
@@Qladstone no , clutch claw is pretty much needed for all iceborne hunts. Compared to base world the monsters hp is quadrupled with higher armor to counteract the clutch slamming and tenderizing.
@@Qladstone so ridiculous that videos like this turn new players away from an amazing expansion in Iceborne. It's a thing that, unless you're used to it not being in the game, is easily integrated into your play style. Not to mention it is an absolutely miniscule negative (if you consider it a negative) compared to the pros of how good Iceborne is in every other aspect. @HeavyWings making a mountain out of a molehill for content and "hardcore" player pandering.
@@Qladstone if you are new to mh game, no need to care about those cryings from mh community, do what you want. You can see it by your own eyes even with those "cc is this and is that", it doesn't change the fact that MHW:I is one of the best mh games and yes it is better than Rise in every aspects. No one is gonna judge how you play the game, just enjoy your hunt!
Spitting facts. Loved slinger and played on ps4 on release and rebought on steam did everything twice. Then icebourne reared it's ugly head. Never finished it, only got to 107 mr
There was also Guiding lands which was horribly tedious and monotonous
5:00 This first argument is just "Well I don't like it cuz I don't know how to use it properly"
judging by the footage he shows, I can conveniently dismiss most of his arguments by saying 'git gud'
I actually enjoyed the clutch claw a lot. Once you learn the monster you are able to know when the timing is optimal to clutch. I also don't think the stagger animation was bad, i felt it was more for a breathing space rather than an interruption to my combo. I don't think it is forced, i have friends that don't like it and would speed run almost every monster in less than 5 minutes, yes the tenderize reduces this time a lot, but it is still optional. I actually don't like wirebugs, like you said at the start, if a feature is optional and you dont like it, you have the option not to use it, and that holds true to the clutch claw, but take LS for example. You can't helm splitter without wirebug, That is something that is forced, when you take away a core skill from the weapon and turn it into a gadget that has a cooldown, that is the biggest problem of wirebugs which was just somewhat fixed with risen kushala's wind mantle. But I honestly would take the clutch claw always first before wire bugs. At the end of the day i feel its a matter of opinion, but still, cool video. Thanks for showing your point of view and critizism honestly, that is something this community needs a lot!
Fundamentally, I think it speaks to just how bad Claw was that mods exist whose sole purpose is to minimise or outright remove Claw's role in combat. Nobody is modding underwater combat out of 3U, or removing Wirebugs from Rise, but Claw was so genuinely terrible that people resorted to mods to just not have to deal with it. World is probably the only MH game where there is a sizeable number of dedicated players who passionately prefer the Base game over the expansion, and Claw is the sole reason for that.
I personally liked the clutch claw, both visually and mechanically, however I definitely think it's balanced poorly. I feel as though it'd be better if tenderizing didn't increase damage dealt, so monsters wouldn't have to be balanced around it, but instead focused entirely on part breaks. Then, tenderizing is optional and is just there to help farming, or in specific fights by weakening a monster.
Since I only really use IG, my only issue with it was that it'd take 2 attacks to get the tenderize off, but other than that it added onto the weapon's gameplay quite a bit. Being able to dive with the clutch claw midair and latch onto whatever I hit, or using it after a mount to grapple onto a monster's head before touching the ground. It was cool and fun. Wallbangs were alright for me, mostly as a result of fights being longer, thus needing the extra openings, but in my experience it never got to the point where monsters spent too much of the fight on the ground (except Ruiner Nergi, that boi lives on banana peels).
On the other hand, wirebugs made Rise and Sunbreak so easy for me that the only times I ever felt threatened was during the emergency event quests of base Rise and the higher end anomaly investigations of Sunbreak. The extra air time and mobility IG got with wirebugs made, and still makes, pretty much every single hunt extremely safe. Not to say it isn't fun tho, wirebugs are just as cool to me as the clutch claw.
Of course, such experiences with either game are entirely subjective, and that's just how it was for me.
I hated the Clutch Claw for essentially why this video pointed out. It was a not fun mechanic the game forced on you if you didn't want to make each hunt take 35+ minutes. It felt bad and it felt like the game was constantly slapping you and going "Use the CC or else". It made me not even finish Iceborne. I desperately hope it doesn't return to MH again.
That said I didn't particularly care for the Wirebugs either. They made the game too zippy and also felt like it punished you if you wanted to play without them. And Wyvern Riding just felt like them trying to slap together the wall banging of IB and the monsties from Stories into a weird, OP mishmash.
Between hating most of Iceborne and getting bored of Rise long before SB came out I'm wary of MH6. I desperately hope it goes back to the more 3U/4U still game instead of the gimmickfest Gen 5 has been.
One thing that I wanted to add is another side effect that the Clutch Claw brought to the table: The Agitator skill.
Even in older games, Agitator/Challenger was a top tier skill to have in G-Rank but in Iceborne it's on a whole other level and because of 2 reasons:
1: Agitator secret: An armor set ability that increases the maximun lever of Agitator up to 7 for even greater benefits, including extra 20% affinity.
2: Clutch Claw allows you to keep the monster constantly enraged and therefore keeping Agitator always up.
This meant that, on top of all the thing you mentioned about the Clutch Claw, now you're also encouraged even more to spam the Clutch Claw, otherwise you also loose all the benefits from Agitator 7.
It also means that you're always fighting monsters while enraged in Iceborne with barely any down time. Fighting monsters like this can get pretty stressful.
Asmon just watched this live and watch out, the Rise haters are gonna bomb yo ass lmao
looks like someone forgot to farm mantles~
I will say I agree a lot with what was said as a clutch claw denier myself, but I'd also go onto say that having a little interaction between the monster and the clutch claw (like the fatalis standing up and then crawling after a flinch shot) went a long way for me and made me almost think of the clutch claw as an actually well valid and well intetactive mechanic.
Almost.
The thing is, you don’t have to use the clutch claw. When people say you are forced to use it or they are being disingenuous because let’s be real, most hunters don’t even use powders, seeds, or traps to increase their damage. Those are all different ways to increase damage output and you don’t have to use them and they aren’t forced, so why is clutch claw different and you have to use it?
I see clutch claw as anything else in the game, a tool that I can choose to use that make hunts easier.
@@chi7818 it's a high damage tool. I personally also denied the cape things. I forgot the name as I havent played in years. Evasion heavy invincibility fire resistance etc. I will admit the only one I did use was the fire resistance because Lunastra was an annoying b and it saver me from using fire resistant slots for more damage stones.
@@SemekiIzuio yeah I agree, but just because it’s a high damage tool doesn’t mean it’s mandatory. That’s what I don’t get, why is this one high damage tool mandatory but so many others aren’t? That’s like saying you have to use bow or hbg or LS because their damage is so much higher than let’s say lance. No one says traps are mandatory but the amount of damage you can pump out in a single trap is ridiculous. No one says mega demondrugs, demon powders, and might seeds are mandatory even though they give a lot of attack.
That’s all I’m saying, they are being disingenuous and overreacting by saying clutch claw ruins the game because you have to tenderize for damage because they don’t even try to optimize damage in other ways.
@@chi7818 because they put half of Weakness Exploit into the clutch claw. They nerfed WE from its 30% iirc the percentage, cut it to 10% and put the 20% on tendering. On top of that they buffer up monsters HP in Iceborne because the game wants you, forces you to use tenderize unless suffer the consequences of weak damage/long kill time.
You can make up the damage by using other crap like str, power surge, and other strong slot gems. But they literally took away a healthy damage mechanic and put it somewhere else splitting the damage. That's what a Nerf is except it wasnt broken.
@@SemekiIzuio considering might seed is 5% attack for 3 minutes, mega demon drug is 3.3% attack until you cart, and demon powder is 5% attack for 3 minutes, you are missing out on 13.3% attack by not using these items. Why isn’t this necessary but 20% crit is?
Let’s also not forget they made crit eye 7 give 10% more crit, and agitator secret gave 10% more crit meaning you could make up for the missing 20% by not tenderizing.
Don’t get me wrong, clutch claw is a powerful tool but like you said, it’s a tool, it’s not mandatory.
Clutch Claw forced you to not play your weapon, but play the Clutch Claw. Now Tenderise, now Wall Bang, monster is no longer enraged, Wall Bang again, you had to do those in order to be effective. It felt that a gimmicky mechanic that should be there for fun, became the standard, and it was kind of annoying tbh. Some people liked it, but I just wanted to play my weapon.
I only bought Base Game because of this
Could not agree anymore. This one thing single handily made me quit. The sad part is I didn’t even get to fight glavenus. A monster I’ve been waiting for to come back.
Biggest issue with clutch is tenderizing, I love the idea of it, hey turn a non weak point into a weak point, but they ended up making hitzones more like, hey, tenderize the weakest point, and now it's a weak point....
I'm a bowgun user, and when fighting fatalis.....I'm only allowed to shoot it's chest, even the tenderized head isn't a weak spot, so I ended up using sticky for that fight, he's immune to stun, but at least I could help break his head
Not sure about other weapons, but I think Clutch Claw + Hammer is seamless. Letting you clutch out of two of held charge attacks really helped with the flow of fights and lets me keep up with faster monsters. If I could've kept the Clutch Claw in place of Wirebugs, I probably would have, even without wallbangs and tenderizing.
The ire against the clutch claw is directed at the tenderizing mechanic. The game is inevitably balanced around it, thus you have to use it as much as possible to deal normal damages instead of when you want it. If Capcom removed the tenderizing effect, brought back the old hitzone values/made the tenderized hitzone values the default while keeping the wallbang and the clutch attacks (which you would use for example against a flying monster, an out of reach part or to punish an otherwise unpunishable attack like Alatreon's floor is ice), all of a sudden, no one would complain anymore about the clutch claw as it would be an additional tool you use on the side of the normal gameplay when you find it convenient rather than a necessary maintenance you need to do regularly.
What is annoying is that it would require little work, yet Iceborne director never addressed the issue despite the community hating the tenderizing mechanic from the get-go (the most vocal being the speedrunners). He only did the barest minimum (Shaver jewel? All light weapons should tenderize in one hit period, no costly lv3 decoration needed and 3 minutes is still too short for the tenderized hitzones to last without having to overuse the clutch claw) at the very end, probably at the request of Ryozo since he seemed to be the "my way or the highway" kind of guy.
People don't realize how intrusive the clagger was in the pace of the game. I don't like how in Rise the monsters are forced to fight each other if they're in the same area but at least the wyvern riding stance it's one time per quest and after SB it's a small (huge) opening where the monster stands still. The clagger triggered WAY more often, it randomly ovverided normal staggers or even worse head staggers and messed up the positioning by pushing the monster away from you. Fighting Kushala in IB feels so different compared to base World now because of that
I measured how long it would take to reposition myself after the clagger animation is activated. It literally takes 2.4 seconds. Stop crying about the pace.
Monster Hunter suffers from a problem where it's a series that wants to be incredibly creative, change itself in new ways in new iterations, and increase player interaction in its fights.
While it wants to do this, there is a vocal minority of the playerbase that just wants to play the same game it fell in love with at [insert previous title that is favorite here.]
So anything that changes the gameplay flow or does anything to disrupt that desired outcome is the worst thing in the world that ruins a game.
If it sounds incredibly dramatic, it's because it is.
I don't have an issue with someone disliking something. I don't have an issue with someone expressing their own opinions in a way that doesn't attempt to pass them off as hard facts.
But we all have to admit it's pretty ridiculous when someone claims the most sold and most well reviewed expansion of the most sold and well reviewed base game in the ENTIRE series is RUINED because of a mechanic he doesn't like, primarily because it makes him not able to fight monsters like how he could before.
To put this into perspective, I don't have a favorable opinion of the new God of War. I regret spending 70 dollars on it, and if there is a third entry in the rebooted franchise I will be avoiding it until it hits the bargain bin, if not entirely.
That said, I would never make a video or headline claiming Santa Monica "ruined" God of War. I would never declare that the gripes with the game I know are personal to me "ruined" the fastest selling Sony first party title and a game millions of people are currently enjoying and having an amazing time with.
Coming back to Monster Hunter, the series moving to PC creates a middle ground situation where everyone can win, at least everyone that plays the game on PC.
Capcom can continue innovating, increasing player interaction in fights, (charging for things that should have been added to event quests,) and increasing the exposure, and user base of the franchise.
Meanwhile, people upset with those changes can use mods to revert the game mechanically back to whichever Monster Hunter title they believe the series shouldn't have moved on from.
This will be extremely important for whatever the next iteration in the series is, as I have no doubt some members of the vocal minority will find some change that has utterly ruined, decimated, and annihilated the playability of the game.
haha let me TLDR that... old hunter quit bitching and just go back to your emulators.
Clutch Claw is the reason I started to use Sticky Light Bowgun. No need to tenderize if your attacks ignores Hitzones.
"untill you find a lengthy opening, you'll be dealing less damage than you could." Ah yes, totally not how it's always been, valid complaint.
Capcom nerfed the hitzones of monsters to accommodate for the tenderizing mechanic as well as WE (30% by default + 20% if tenderized instead of 50% by default). Basically, you use the clutch claw to get back to the damages you dealt pre-nerf, not to gain a damage boost. Similar to how the heat gauge of GL functioned in MHGU.
@johan9428 I don't even disagree, and I think if this video was more focused on the numerical changes, it would've been more convincing. Like when he talked about the insane hp increase. But there were too many dumb complaints that just made his whole argument feel like belly aching
(Sorry for the eventual mistakes I’m French) I didn't agree with you. MHW is a game where you have to use absolute every things to maximize your DPs and skills. It's not only ground combat and you have to make giant boulders falls, destroys the dam to flood a part of the map, perform jump attacks from walls to ride monsters. The clutch claw is just a bonus, but if you combine all the bonus you can get together won’t that make the game too easy? So yes, monsters have increased HP but the CC itself doesn't compensate this rise of HP, you have to use the CC along with all the bonuses you can get to improve your skills, for me, it's a good DLC because it makes you progress by mastering new skills and that's what I'm looking for when I'm playing MH
Having played world and ice born several times, i never felt the clutch claw was forced upon me, and i rarely used it in iceborn, despite this my hunt times barely increased, and i thknk the reason for that is because by the time you get to the expantoon of the game, you are good enough at whatever weapon you are using that the health increace dosent matter, as well as this, i never really noticed this 'clagger' effect, and when it did happen i never really thought it was too jarring or disruptive, if anything i was glad the monster was taking a break from jumping around all the time, and the wall bang always felt so cool when you could get it off, giving a great oppertuniry to whale on the monsyer while it was down, to conclude i doont think the clutch claw was a bad addition at all, and much like the slinger, it caan be mostly ignored if you dont like it, but gives a nice buff if you do
You gain way to much from using it more damage easier part breaks more monster down time
Btw they nerfed so many hitzones on monsters in icebourne even further making ppl relay o. The clutch claw
10:40 Iceborne director: "Let's introduce the tenderizing mechanic".
Developer #1: "But the monsters will get obliterated. It will break the game".
Iceborne director: "Then, let's triple the health of the monsters, lower their hitzones and nerf WEX".
Developer #2: "But then, the players are kind of compelled to tenderize all the time. Maybe we should test it to see if it is bearable. Maybe it would be simpler to just keep the wallbangs and the clutch attacks on monsters without complicating the gameplay with this tenderizing business".
Iceborne director: "No need, I can't be wrong. And you know what? It gave me an idea. The Safi'jiiva siege will be centered around tenterizing and Safi'jiiva will even be able to untenderize!".
Fanbase hating the tenderizing mechanic, asking for it to be scrapped and the game rebalanced for a whole year.
Iceborne director: "No, I am right and you are wrong. I will throw you a bone and double the tenderizing time and give Shaver Jewel (not lv1 or lv2, but lv3) for light weapons, but that's all".
Iceborne director leaves Capcom to the surprise of no one.
@@wits_end. And that's not his only bad idea, just his worst. He put a 0.7 multiplier to the elemental damages of IG and Lance as, in his mind, they were too OP. Meaning against monsters with bad hitzones and great elmzones such as Stygian Zinogre or Ebony Odogaron, these weapons are screwed compared to the others except GS. He nerfed AED and SEAD, meaning it is not uncommon for the monsters to not stagge (especially if you didn't tenderize!) and to punish you as a result right after. He nerfed Maximum Might in a way the skill is absolutely useless instead of simply decreasing the value. He also introduced crowns for endemic lifes (fortunately there is no achievement tied to them).
MHWI is my favorite MH along with MH4U thanks of everything else: maps, monsters, investigation system, events, I much prefer the Guiding Lands as an endgame to the Guild Quests of MH4U or the Anomaly Quests of Sunbreak. But Iceborne director made sure it would never be a perfect MH. I am glad he is no longer part of the MH team so he doesn't get to tarnish MH6 gameplay as well, although I fear something even worse may happen with this game coughcoughmicrotransactionscough.
PREACH BROTHER
Honestly, 4U has the best combat. Especially for GS. GS is kinda brain dead now, it used to be about openings and timing. Now it’s hurrdurr tackle through something and throw a true charged in a situation I shouldn’t be able too but can get it off anyway
PREACH. 4U is peak monster hunter. World ruined GS and LS.
The whole premise of this video is based on you not enjoying the use of the slinger/clutch claw. The fix for you would be to lower health of the monsters so it wouldn't feel like the mechanic is required. That might be great for you, but you're just throwing a middle finger to anyone who enjoys using it. I for one like that it's not mindlessly easy to use. I like having to find an opening. I like that it's punishing to not use all the tools I have available. I like the look of the animations. I like that there are two mantles can be used to make it easier if I want. Base world was too easy, I agree. And thank you, Iceborne, for forcing me to actually think about my build and lean forward in my chair during a fight. Iceborne isn't just a story DLC. It's an entire end-game on top of World's end-game. It should be difficult, and it should absolutely expect you to do more than pack Mega Potions and bonk a monster on the head for 5 minutes.
I just recently starting going back to Worldborn, but you don't have to sheath to use the clutch claw. Why did Heavy always say you have to sheath? Did I miss something?
I believe that only a certain weapon or two have that ability. Probably the SS. Play with other weapons and see for yourself.
@@kukukachu will do. I played mostly LS and HBG, there this was an option.
@@pascal2666 All weapons can use slinger and claw while unsheathed. However, Insect Glaive, Lance, and the ranged weapons need to click in the right circle pad (on Console) to swap between normal aim mode (or in the case of lance, claw counter mode) to slinger/claw aim mode.
@@Andrew-hz5zc yea that is what I remember. I played enough Worldborn that I can't tell what actions to press, I just do it without thinking :( but I felt like sheathing is something I rarely do before clawing. Anyhow, playing some hours Worldborn and then Risebreak gave me some conclusions Heavy was pointing out. Even though I like the claw combat wise, I don't like it being mandatory to progress in a decent pace. In contrast, I started learning Lance today in Risebreak and immediately liked the switchskills and their integration. A difference in feel like day and night.
Massive "Skill Issue" Vibe coming from here. Monsters have massive amount of Health in iceborne? That's unreasonable!!!! If only our gear would scale... wait a moment
Way to completely miss his point lol
@@typhoon4994 the point was poor
I wouldn't say the Clutch Claw ruined the game. The main issue is the tenderizing. Not only it increased the raw damage, it is also bound to the effectiveness of the weakness exploit skill. These two factors alone turned it into mandatory routine resulting in a monster being covered in ugly texture. :) Saying that Capcom introduced new ways how to reach extra affinity without relying on weakness exploit and improved power of elemental builds that don't benefit from tenderized monsters as much. Later they improved the duration of tenderized effect, improved some weapon moves (clawyuken) and added decoration to make it more easy. Still I would prefer the clutch claw attack to be a way to get in some extra damage when monster is airborne or so. However, the latest version is still much more bearable.
Another thing I don't like is the stagger period being extended with the clutch claw which creates these stupid looking moments when the hunter clutch on the to the monster just to jump down to artificially create an opening. This could also be easily fixed by extending time only during the clutch claw attack.
Other than that I rarely had an issue with clutch claw aiming or learning when to use it or not. Despite clutch claw implementation being far from flawless, it also contributed to some cool looking cinematic moments. So I personally don't mind it as much.
On the other hand, I'm surprised that in contrast people are so chill about wyvern riding mechanic. Sure Capcom fixed it so it's no longer mandatory but the whole theatre when the second monster arrives to the area is still there. You know when the monster you're fighting suddenly starts running across the whole area to greet the other monster, blocking turf wars, etc. This mechanic imo is much more intrusive in comparison.
And I thought people said the old games were clunky.
Clutch Claw is clunkier than MHFU lol
I haven’t actually played world or iceborne, but I have played rise and sunbreak, and I just wanna point out that while the silkbind attacks are indeed mandatory, unlike the clutch claw, they only add to your punishment opportunities instead of detracting from them. The clutch claw forces you to use it to tenderize the monster when you have the chance, which means your ability to fully punish the monster is contingent on it already being tenderized, on top of having on opening. In rise/sunbreak, the silkbind attacks only give you more options for how to punish the monster when you have the chance. Not to mention the silkbind attacks can also be used strategically to actually create openings and punishment opportunities. The clutch claw technically can too, but it’s a matter of aiming your reticle at the monster and pulling off the wallbang, rather than strategically using unique moves designed specifically for the weapon you’re using.
You didn’t really need tenderize if you have affinity and mind’s eye build. People just screaming because they can’t get maximum result from attack jewel and critical eyes without tenderizing.
^Delusional
@@arapaimagold8088actual idiot
Ah yes the clutch claw, loved not having a shortcut to 1 tenderize as IG
Just like with underwater combat, you went very hard on the negative aspects of the clutch claw, starting with the requirement of the clutch claw with just bigger hp pool (the hp pool increase attempted to fix the power Crept brought from the new skill sistem that allows for 100% affinity and more) which is far less triviliazing than the wirebug, where you have to use it for escaping combo attacks on top of dealing little damage with just the normal moveset of the weapons
Saying that rise is fundamentally build with the wirebug on mind is a wrong statement because monsters weren't balanced to keep up with a casual player that attackfall or healfall (just to use your own terms)
Saying that rise is for people that like wirebug is another bad statement,,, not only because people could find the wirebug annoying to use after playing with it.... But mhtri and 3u are marketed with the underwater combat as a brand new addition to the gameplay, made for people that enjoy underwater environments, yet this gimmick doesn't get the free pass you gave to the wirebug, a FAR more invasive mechanic that is present in every hunt rather than 1/4 (more or less) of the entire game
Let's be honest, only because monsters are faster, that doesn't mean that you shouldn't take your time to find and opening to tenderize, you shouldn't tenderize the whole body, just few parts and some monsters like velkhana have few attacks with an hitboxe on the head, allowing for incredibly easy tenderizing....
What happened to your interest for the grounded combat when you can simply increase your damage or create opening at the cost of dealing with enraged monsters?
At the end of the day i don't need to defend capcom decisions for world iceborne, im still enjoying it far more than rise-sunbreak but i do agree with one statement... The main line team should take from the portable team the things that work like switch skills (still need rebalancing though) but that shouldn't stop the main team from experimenting themselves, the series needs to be fresh with every entry or it should take what didn't worked in past in order tp give it a second chance..... Yes I'm still hoping for underwater combat, imagine having swimming fins or propellers in order to give the player great mobility underwater
So your whole essay is just you not liking wirebugs? Heavywings did say it's a like it or hate it mechanic, and there's nothing wrong with it. It is not considered "invasive" if the whole game is designed around it, which is also what Heavy explained in the video. Did you even watch the video and just sweep every point made under the rug?
Also how is "Rise is for people that like wirebugs" a bad statement? If people like the gameplay the wirebugs bring to the table, then they're going to like the game. If they don't, then that's fair enough rise is probably not the game for you. Simple as.
@@saladv3028 heavy wings is a scrub if the Charge blade clutch attack made him quit using It
@@saladv3028 how could a centralized mechanic not being invasive if this mechanic adds his own broken things (movement, damage and buffs of whatever kind) while the monster are not balanced enough to keep up enough to pose a sever challenge while still making the base moveset underwhelming in comparison cause of the high hp pool and laaarge area attacks that cant be dodged with good positioning?
It would be similar to take the mh4 combat and add to the player a portable dragonator that recharges after 1 min... "oh we wanna add this dragonator to the hunter moveset, its fun, but the monster would die too easily so let's increase the hp pool of the monsters to match the dragonator power and add one shot attacks that can be stopped only with the dragonator ... Its fun"
No it isn't fun, you make an invasive change on the already present moveset of the player.... and don't make mistake, clutch claw was invasive because of 2 reasons, hp pool (due to an overpowered tenderizing mechanic) and partially the clagger that allows the player to tenderize one part and focusing on it or taking a break but the requirement was more for players that don't go prepared and/or don't hit often the weak spots... It seems that the clagger breaks the flow of the combat only when you are so used to attack without committent or caring about committent, i do like old monter hunter but how many times the monsters could go out of the ranges of your attacks just to hit you from behind?
Back to the wirebug, it's invasive also if you consider that it removed the standard mount (caused by aerial attacks) and made Wyvern riding which you have to use silk bindings... And sunbreak added afflicted monsters that have an inherent dps check
But you are right, rise is totally not for me, a lot of many different things such as the monsters always located on the map or the ability to instantly ride the palamute in combat.... It's great to use the dog for traversal movement yes,,,it shouldn't be used to run like a coward in order to sharpen your weapon during a fight without any risk (and if you want to say that in some fights you can't ride palamutes, well there are fights like the alatreon or velkhana where you don't need to tenderize because of the hitzone values already big and the tenderize formula couldn't change that much the hitzones)
@@Falcion-FF Whoa ok no need to write a whole novel about it. Some people like me find it and some like ypu don't. It is what it is.
I think it's a bit much to say that it "ruins" the game while every criticism can be summed up to a skill issue for the most part. I personally haven't had any issues beating monsters quickly and a lot of times i forget the clutch claw even exists. The pause that monsters do to me is no different then when they are tired in the middle of the fight as well.🤷🏾♂️🤷🏾♂️I don't see it as a big deal tbh
I've played world casually for over 80 hours and didn't use the claw much, just when I remembered I had it and i never felt like it had a detriment to the game but I keep hearing people complain about it so I am interested to see exactly why. Will edit once I've watched the video to give my opinions
Edit: having now watched the video, a couple things leap out at me. The largest impact of the clutch claw on the game is the clagger, as it breaks normal gameplay, and I think while it could have worked it they didn't move so far away, it is definitely a detriment. Your other points however, I'm not so sure about. Playing through iceborne hunts took a while but I fully expected that because it's master rank and it's always harder, but until I learned they were supposed to take an extra long time in this video, I never noticed it, and it did not break my immersion at all. I also didn't notice the reduced hotzone damage either, and the cool moves and other things iceborne added far overshadowed the only thing I didn't like which was the clagger. This may be due to the fact that I play gunlance, which is a pretty slow play style so that could have contributed to not noticing the longer fight times.
In conclusion: for someone playing casually or with friends not focused on optimizing the endgame(alatreon, fatalis) I don't think clutch claw is as jarring as people make it out to be even a good way into master rank.
Context on me as a player(gunlance main, 800 hours across 3u, 4u, gu, world, and rise. Imo best game is 4u, world, gu, rise, 3u in that order)
It's fine in World, once u get to iceborne in becomes much worse as the entire game is made around it, it in a way makes it feel mandatory.
Played Worlds across PS4 and PC with a combined 1400 hours. Clutch claw is 100% forced in Master/G rank and let me tell you, it's not fun at all trying to find the only window in a middle of a fight that breaks the fight cycle. Ie) you dodge and weave through attacks of a Zinogre and hit him once on an off hit and then he staggers mid combo and it goes from a game of fighting optimally to "oh I need to clutch claw now". And then if you fight Alatreon and Fatalis without tenderizing their heads, GOOD LUCK winning that fight is all I have to aay
@@leekyonion LOL, Alatreon and Fatalis are the monsters where tenderizing is literally, FACTUALLY the LEAST useful, especially their heads. Alatreon's head is an 85 hitzone. The tenderize multiplier formula is to times by 0.75, then add 25 and take off the decimal. That means the higher the hitzone the less useful tenderizing actually is. For Alatreon's 85 hitzone head, that goes up to 88, a difference of 3. Hardly anything at all.
Fatalis' head is a hitzone of 75. Oh, not as high as Alatreon's, so it's more useful right? WRONG, Fatalis is special in that a negative 5 "bonus" is applied after the tenderizing formula on tenderized parts. That means that tenderizing his head literally only improves the hitzone by ONE. He also doesn't need a tenderized head in order to get a partbreak bonus on wallbangs, meaning tenderizing the head is practically worthless for Melee weapons. Saying tenderizing is required for Ala and Fatty is one of the most ignorant statements ever, the bonus you get from it is extremely tiny on them specifically. They honestly punish you more if you DO use the claw because they each have multiple moves that pin or just straight up kill you if you are clutched on, even with a mantle.
It's almost like people hear that tenderizing is required and just immediately believe it without doing any research or even trying it out themselves.
He says that in the video, it doesn’t affect the base game because it didn’t exist at the time.
@@chandlerh2408 I'm not just talking about the base game, I'm a good way into master rank and I still don't use it as I had stated in my comment
Oh man, I am so sorry about the hate brigade that’s come your way. Had no idea it was going to be THIS bad. So much for react streamers benefitting the OG creator, eh? I wouldn’t blame you if you just went full recluse for like a month
I really like the clutch claw in theory, primarily because, on the face of it, it's a nice middle ground between rise's wirebugs giving too much power and freedom to the player and something more restrained. like being able to make a monster rush forward and have it hit a wall is a really good and fun mechanic and when coupled with how easy it is to fall of (ccompared to mounting for example) it makes a great risk/reward system. in theory.
of course in practice it was heavily overtuned and what should've been something you could use occationally in a hunt to push an advantage became what you described here.
I've also spoken about this with some other very long time game veterans, and also broached the subject of why they don't like Rise.
It is for basically the same reason that the clutch claw "ruins" Iceborne.
Fundamentally, both the clutch claw and wirebugs are extremely powerful general mechanics available to all hunters which necessarily shape the game around them. At first they trivialize it because the devs themselves don't know how strong the mechanics actually are, and monsters aren't designed to really interact with them. Clutch claws made monsters in Iceborne extremely squishy and easy to permastun, wirebugs made hunters in rise functionally immortal. Naturally, this made the games "easymode" at first.
But then the devs update the game. They change the monsters to take these mechanics in account, in essence assuming that the hunters can and will make full use of them. This results in anyone who wasn't using the mechanics for legacy reasons- IE they are game veterans with years of hardlocked habits and biases; and are allergic to change; and hate the idea of having to add a new tool to their kit and develop new skills or use weapons in new ways- which is fine. If they have a specific style of play they like they're fine to enjoy playing it. The issue is that when the devs inevitably make the shift in the monster designs to balance the game and make it genuinely challenging, these players get left behind extremely hard and are put into a position where they feel they have no *choice* but to use the mechanic they don't like; and thus come to hate the entire game as a whole. In other words, it goes from a matter of simply not being optimal to one of deciding between strugglebussing through the remainder of the game or hating playing it because its not what they're used to.
It happened in Iceborne when they began releasing post-game monsters that had specific anti-clutch mechanics (or mechanics which outright required clutch), such as Rajang, Alatreon, AT Velk, Fatalis, Safi, Raging Brachy.
It happened in Rise when they release sunbreak, and the entire second half of the game's monster cast was designed with wirebug mobility in mind (although they technically were in basegame as well, its very clear the devs really did not know the strength of the wirebug- as the game did not become difficult in any meaningful way until the event quest for the super high difficulty Crimson Glow Valstrax), including the fact that one of the game's fundamental defensive mechanics (having i-frames when on the ground) was dramatically nerfed to make up for wirebug recovery- which itself was now punished by several monsters that had moves specifically designed to counter it unless you time it perfectly (essentially the same as getup s, but just different in nature and thus something that needs to be "relearned" for veteran players not used to being bad at the game and new players who struggle with things like frame perfect timings to begin with). Some players also have severe hatreds for "easy" weapons like Bowguns- and despised wirebugs *specifically* because it gave bowguns mobility that they "shouldn't" have (although to be fair it did NOT come at the cost of their damage potential like it should have, and as a result HBGs in Rise are kind of laughably OP since they literally "have it all").
As an addon, I generally agree with the video's conclusions. The clutch claw was a half-assed addition to an already well designed game that put both the devs and the players in a tough spot, and ended up leaving sore feelings with many.
The wirebug was a part of Rise from day 1, and although it wasn't really "balanced" well until Sunbreak- that is leagues better than the Clutch Claw which wasn't balanced until the last *7* monsters in the entire game. To me, the existence of the wirebug is no different than the existence of Mega Potions, or Max Potions, or Demondrugs, or Armortalon/Powertalon, the moveset of every single weapon. It's just another mechanic to add to the list of mechanics to learn. But for veterans players who fundamentally want little more than a modern graphical reboot of their favorite monster hunter game, it's an alien oddity that distinctly separates the game from what they view as the "True" monster hunter experience.
Slinger should return. Clutch Claw no. I used Slinger In every hunt. Felt completely natural.
Also the cast of monsters was not boring
What I like about wirebugs is that it keeps the flow of combat "flowing" and it gives you strategy options, you can avoid using skills so you can jump out from a hit and keep fighting, you dont need to superman dive to avoid superattacks, if a monster gets too far away, wirebug to him and keep fighting, everything keeps you in the flow, the game never stops just so you can preform a specific action.... Well, at least now that riding isnt mandatory it doesn't.
Ive been playing this series since monhun 1 and honestly risebreak has been ny favourite combat so far
I like the concept of the clutch claw, but in practice it didn’t work out quite as well as it could’ve. However I grew to like it more over time learning when I can get an opening to tenderize the monster. Having to tenderize felt tedious but it still was a little bit rewarding tendering monsters like Fatalis or Alatreon or AT Velkhana, monsters that really don’t like when you clutch on them. When you do learn their attacks and find a safe opening to tenderize or flinch shot it is rewarding, and adds another layer of combat, but in its execution it did start to feel tedious having to constantly tenderize monsters.
The staggers do help to get time to tenderize but the fact they get pushed back so far is so frustrating when you whiff your helm breaker because the spirit thrust staggered them
The janky aim of the clutch claw is also so frustrating
Totaly agree with everything you said. One of the most egregious parts for me was how the monster hitboxes while clutch clawing felt basicaly random, especialy when you compare one monster to another. But what realy did it for me was when I clawed onto a rathalos' wing while he was flying, and he did that swoop down claw attack. Not only did I get knocked off, but I got poisoned. How do you explain that? I guess they changed the canon so that rathalos has poison in his wings now too.
Yeah it's a bit like the Barioth tail example, they really needed to design the game around something like this from the start to avoid issues like that.
Gonna leave a bit of positivity in this sea of hate
Clutch claw isn’t that good, I find it hard to use
World is a fine game, but clutch claw doesn’t help with combat
“Ruined” sure is a bit much
But it definitely didn’t really help
To those asmongold people still telling my boi to get good or bullying him, this is just his opinion ffs, he’s just sharing his experience, please stop being toxic
Just because you dont like it doesnt mean it ruins the game. I feel like most of your arguments arent really fair
I've listened to a lot of people complain about clutch claw, and while I understand why people don't like it - I seem to like it almost always for the reason people dislike it. I love the feeling of getting a wallbang or a tenderize off while the monster is up and doing an attack that leaves that part open, but you really can get away with doing it during exhausts and downs. It seems like I'm in the minority for it, but I enjoy having the clutch claw far more than base World.
And for the last bit of the video, I disagree with your discouragement on devs adding drastic changes. I think that once they have a solid base-combat it's great for them to experiment with some big changes and additions. It lets them know what to do in future installments/updates and allows each game to feel at least a good bit different from the last. And I'd really just rather have weird/bad mechanics than something completely run-of-the-mill.
I do really agree with the point you and a lot of others have made: that it needs to be more involved with a wider spectrum of the weapons. Part of why I like the claw so much is probably because the weapons I've played the most use it alongside DB and HH getting some level of innate Mind's Eye.
If the clutch claw was only used for the occasional wall bang and extra hit/gap close it would've been great imo.
Revert hit zones to what they were in world, remove tenderize, remove the clagger and put some sort of limitation on wall bang so a non enraged monsters get to actually do something and it's fixed. There are mods that have done things like these.
Guy doesn't like clutch claw, that's all. It didn't ruin the game at all. It's not even completely necessary to use if you don't want to use all the tools provided to you. The slinger gives massive advantages to people who use it too but once again you don't need to use it if you're okay with being a sub optimal hunter. Clutch claw is fun. If you don't like it don't use it but don't pretend it ruined anything.
Pb is, the hitzones and WE were nerfed to accommodate for the tenderizing mechanic. If you don't tenderize, you do less damage than the game expects you to do, and your hunting time increases drastically. No mechanic should ever directly influence damage numbers, else the game is inevitably balanced around it, and you need to use it as much as possible instead of when and where you want it like the hunting arts.
@@johan9428 You just miss out on 20 affinity. It doesn't drastically increase hunt time unless you're not hitting a weak spot. The mechanic is fine and nitpicking about doing it is just silly. If you don't wanna be efficient don't use it... you'll still kill the monsters just fine. Same with slinger, same with optimal decos, same with sharpening. This is such a goofy perspective to take. Claw adds to the experience it is NOT the whole experience.
@@johan9428You won't reach them all. Many of them are literal children, not having the patience to take in and critically think about the information.
Then you have others that view this game as their religions idol because of the pretty visuals. Criticizing the idol to them is like Criticizing them personally.
Facts and math won't reach people so emotionally invested. They aren't logical thinking because they don't want to be. Again, it is their religious idol.
@@BrokenRose-mu6kx Just to be clear, I disagree with Heavy Wings who says the clutch claw ruins the game (some of his points are hypocritical and make no sense like him complaining that the monsters had too little HP and died too fast in World, but complaining also that you need to use the clutch claw in Iceborne to kill the monsters just as fast as you did in World). I prefer way more Iceborne to Sunbreak, despite the tenderizing mechanic. Yes, I dislike the tenderizing mechanic. I think it is an unnecessary chore which should have never been added in the first place and should never ever return. But at the end of the day, it is "just" an annoying maintenance we need to perform every 3 minutes. The rest of the time, the gameplay is still grounded, and it still feels like a Monster Hunter. In Sunbreak, yes, the Wirebugs are more fun to use than the clutch claw, but it changes the gameplay so much it barely looks like Monster Hunter anymore (the monsters also got BS moves to compensate, so if you refuse to use the Wirebugs, you are even more punished than in Iceborne if you don't tenderize). Example: Oh, I got knocked hard by a monster. Instead of being sent rolling on the floor and being vulnerable to be hit again when I get up, I just spiderman away on the side, barely an inconvenience aside from the damage taken. Also, Rise and Sunbreak have an even bigger sin than the tenderizing mechanic: microtransactions escalation and poor event rewards.
World has microtransactions too and laying on the floor gives you s enough for the next follow up attack to not hit you. It's a cop out than actual danger. I've never carted in Worldborne because I couldn't wirefall away as the s and being able to wake up when I want to always gives me an easy way out.
Wire falling when you don't have to (pins and combos from monsters like Valstrax) leaves you open to another attack. If you've played long enough you'll notice that monsters often react to what you are doing. Ex. it's not uncommon for rajang to send out a second laser at you if you wirefall and try to heal. I've even had a rajang do his ground slam twice in a row just to spite me after using wirefall.
The damage reactions are more in favor of the player in Worldborne than in Risebreak.
A lot of attacks in Worldborne lets you get knocked face down while Risebreak often puts you in a slight stagger getting up. Those stagger getting up animations are what puts you at risk. Worldborne often nerfed damage reactions or increased them to favor the player.
There's a youtuber known as Kītan who goes into detail about this and monster behavior and has video evidence to prove what I am saying.
Edit: Forgot to mention, monsters are also more likely to attempt to grab you if you use your wirebugs up. (Rajang is notorious for this)
I'd argue mantles take a lot more away from Monster Hunter. Giving players literal auto dodge, a get out of jail free card mantles when things get too intense, a mantle that nerfs damage reactions and reduces damage, mantles that make elemental attacks a joke, mantles that give free mounts for free knock downs, mantles that make stunning easy, mantles that give you tons of s while buffing you too. Not to mention you can slot decos into these to buff the player even more.
@@johan9428
I love that world doesn't rely on gimmicks.
I've played Monster Hunter since Monster Hunter Freedom on the PSP, and honestly... I love the clutch claw and a lot of my friends who used to play with me from before do...
asmongold watchers on their way to bombard the comment section with "skill issue" 🤡
Is it wrong tho? The guy doesn't even know that you can brace during monster attacks, nor recovering from getting thrown off, then blames the game when he's getting punished for doing a heavy attack during a hip check lmao
@@34125867the bracing and recovering from throws is a mount thing not a clutch claw thing. The heavy attack during the attack is fair tho. Personal opinion there should be a few monster attacks with more recovery frames so that in solo you can more easily tenderize with heavy weapons. Although i play insect glaive so the tenderize times dont affect me
Actual children. This is what people meant with his toxic fanbase and will just harass someone for disagreeing with them rather than properly discussing. I think the video had some very good points with some weak points, but it doesn't warrant harassment at all since it's his opinion.
Guy complains about monster health being balanced around clutch claw then says monster health being balanced around wirebug is fine. He is joke. Complains about differences in weapon tenderizing attacks, like yeah weapons have different balance what you want to complain that blocking with a lance is better than blocking with greatsword?
@@34125867 You can't brace when clutching the monster so I don't know why you brought that up? The hip check thing is his fault though, but everything else he said in the video is correct for the most part.
How did sunbreak make riding optional? Did i miss something? im playing and still get annoyed big time everytime i have to stop my combat (or waste my weapon buffs for that matter) just so i have to do a lenghty 3-wall-bang ride
Previously if you didn't want to ride, you would have to not attack the monster for like 7 seconds, massive pace breaker.
They added a setting that makes it so attacking doesn't trigger the ride, so you can keep wacking on the monster and they'll return to normal. You can also set Followers to ride for you if you don't want to.
@@HeavyWings that's good news! I play with my trusted hunting group, and I already made clear I don't want to ride. That option is super sweet, thanks
Most of the complaints I see are about the tenderizing aspect, but my problem was always the wall bang. I could never get it to work right, and it felt like such a silly way to damage a monster anyway.
Yeah some walls don't actually count as walls and the monster slides off. It's one of those things that happens infrequently but enough to be really annoying, and it still happens in Rise too.
@@HeavyWings at least in Rise some walls are more clear than the ones from MHW.
I always thought wall bangs felt better than the mounting mechanic. Quicker and requires paying attention to your surroundings and some careful planning. It was a little wonky at times, but if they didn't have tenderizing I bet they could make wall bangs feel more consistent.
The alatreon fight sucks, I and my friends would miss almost every wall bang, may be a skill issue but it's still frustrating seeing him running into the wall for 5 seconds and doesn't count it as wallbang
the biggest issue i have with it is how inconsistent it is and how little is actually explained of what's going on.
Why do i get thrown off 7 times in a row while the monster is just standing there but can ride on for the entirety of a rathalos death lotus midair.
why can my friend just clutch onto it without any problem for the entire fight.
why do light weapons have to clutch it twice to tenderize it or otherwise slot in a high level decoration just to get the basic functionality of the forced mechanic.
why is insect glaive reliant on landing a clutch to perform in the most basic of combat scenarios due to their reliance on monster dropped slinger ammo.
sometimes the monster glides along the wall from a clagger, sometimes it hits nothing.
When you're fighting safi'jiva, you're actively told that you need to clagger the monster at specific times by voice cues from the extras, yet trying to do it when they say just causes you to get arbitrarily knocked off 7 more times.
why does completing a tenderize both animation lock you and drop you off directly in front of the monster/ on top of one of its attacks.
like it feels like its 100% designed just to be BS from the start.
clutch claw counter was a blessing for us Lance players. It never interrupted the flow of the combat and i wish a similar move comes back in wilds.
9:35 Did he just say that Rise was more challenging? RISE? It's literally the easiest of the series by a mile. Wirebug made every monster a joke, and also most bosses had bird health. Sunbreak acknowledged this and spiced up things a little bit, but still fairly easy.
Tenderizing I think is a perfectly fine mechanic implemented poorly. It would have been better as something implemented into each weapon's moveset - either as a new move or additional benefit to existing moves. SnS, DB, and Lance had this done rather well, but it could have worked as a benefit of using less-used moves as well. On GS for example it should have been included as an effect of landing Strong Wide Slash on a monster part. This would allow the mechanic while keeping combat flowing, as well as rewarding proper spacing with a tenderize on the part players are actually hitting.
On a related note - the lack of necessity to tenderize is part of why the Fatalis fight is one of the best fights in the series for me. It takes what is (imo) the best base combat in the series and just pits you against the final threat. Yeah the fight has gimmicks, but it still felt really well-crafted to me.
This video in a nutshell:
“I am a moron and constantly contradict myself”
The slinger (provided that you use dragon, bomb, or piercing pods) can stop wyverns that are flying from flying. It works very good if you hit them in the head, but each time you hit you'll need to wait for them to get through a stun animation before hitting them with the next pod.
Claggering is very annoying, but aren't the only time you can stun monsters for attacks. If you claw onto their head, then perform a claw attack onto their head, it'll stagger them long enough to perform an attack.
Greatsword main from Iceborne here, While I wouldn't say Clutch Claw ruined Iceborne.. It did seriously break a flow of a hunt so lot. infact, in the very late game you could do away with tenderising as long as you hit a weakpoint because honestly, the meta was to keep a monster enraged or on a floor due VERY easily stackable secret skill.
If only wallbanging was something you could do with slinger ammo and succesful mount, it would have been a lot better. IMHO. Mounting was mostly weaksauce in World
Its sooo hard to just not tenderize a monster and just hit it normally I guess
I think the issue he has is that if you ignore it you just have to deal with the bloated hp that was balanced around the player using the clutch claw.
The Clutch Claw was introduced to solve a problem that didn't exist. And it resulted in an unbalanced mess. It was one of the reasons why I dropped the game when I did. Before I go on a tangent though, I wanna elaborate. I was a hardcore aerial IG main in World and Iceborne and never felt comfortable using the Crutch Claw. I think there were combos that led you crutch onto Monsters from the air, but I really disliked the whole "You have to use it to tenderize for better Hit Zone Values, nvm Weakness Exploit" part of it. So I did not use it at all. Which was actually p fine until the last two fights. After them I dropped Iceborne for the first time. Came back a bit later, but it didn't last long either.
Same here as a Bow user. Weakness Exploit was everything for Bow. As a fast weapon, CC killed flow and had you stop from dashing rolling
I'd like to offer counterpoints to many stuff in the video, as a clutch claw enjoyer. Something to keep in mind, I only played World/Iceborne AFTER all the updates. I never experienced how claw was without the shaver deco and the doubled tenderize timer. For all I know, it really was atrocious then. But I'm defending it as it is NOW.
4:53-5:08 This isn't a bad point and I don't blame you for bringing it up. I think it can be largely fixed by just turning off the auto-aim assist in the settings though. Aiming where YOU want without the game trying to mess up really helps.
5:09-5:22 Congratulations, you just described... Monster Hunter combat. MH combat is about finding openings during monster attacks. You fail, you get knocked back. Claw is just an extension of that. If you claw when you don't have enough time or a safe spot to grapple to, you get knocked off. So find consistent times and positions to grapple to during attacks and you will succeed. Else, you fail.
5:23-5:36 Sure, but learning when and when not to claw is part of it. MH has always had inconsistent hitboxes that screw over game mechanics all the time. Don't act like in Rise your counters never got messed up due to hitboxes, or even you succeeded in the counter but didn't actually hit the monster. This isn't a claw problem, it's a hitbox problem. Monster hitboxes aren't different depending on if you're clutched on or not.
5:41-5:56 Fast weapons are fast and slow weapons are slow? Who would have thought!? Again, this isn't a claw problem. Each weapon plays differently, and that includes how they use the claw. As for the point later about light weapons taking two attacks, just use shaver jewel. I know it's a band-aid solution, but it's an effective one and pretty much removes a ton of problems. Extra slinger ammo is a huge benefit you also ignored here that the light weapons get.
6:50 I completely agree with the weapon integration point. LS, CB, HH, GS, and the Bowguns all suffered here. But the remaining 8 weapons all had good or even passable integration. SnS has claw uppercut to tenderize without shaver, DB has a combo to do the same, Hammer and Lance you mentioned, GL doesn't have a combo or special move, but the claw attack reloads ALL ammo and gives slinger ammo for the wyrmstake blast, Swaxe has ZSD synergy with claw, IG has aerial claw (and a straight up really good claw attack) and Bow has a super fun shot after the claw attack that flows perfectly back to normal gameplay. LBG also gets a somewhat pass here because sticky meta at endgame doesn't even need claw at all.
7:29-7:59 Don't act like Temporal and Rocksteady made claw more fun. They were half the problem. Even without claw they're the best mantles by a long shot. You always used them. And WITH claw, they reduce the matter of claw use to just putting them on and doing it for free with no skill. THAT ruins flow. If you want a tenderize or wall bang, find an opening. It's very fun to successfully claw during monster attacks once you learn to recognize when certain parts are safe and when they aren't. How do I know this? For one, because that's exactly how I play the game (I willingly don't use Temporal or Rocksteady), and for two, would you look at that, it's exactly how MH combat works. A tenderize and a lengthy attack like a TCS are the same at a fundamental level. If you don't have a free opening, you find your OWN openings while the monster attacks you by anticipating its moves. Temporal and Rocksteady negate that almost completely.
This comment is getting long so I'll continue in the replies.
8:08 I'll actually concede a good amount of points about the clagger. The monster goes back pretty far, and it shouldn't have been added to base World. But it's not like other types of flinches aren't just as annoying, especially if your weapon has short reach like SnS. Knockdowns where the monster goes flying backward like Anjanath could be argued to break combat flow. So could flinches where the monster rears its head back really far before returning to it's normal position. I find this weirdly common with flying wyverns in Rise. Older games are also littered with times where you hit a monster's enrage threshold mid-combo, and they suddenly and jarringly jerk into their roar animation, interrupting your combo. It's not like the clagger is all bad either. It's a reward of a free tenderize or wallbang, and it opens up consideration of other options if the monster is already tenderized and/or enraged. Do I reset the tenderize timer? Do I soften up a different part? Or do I just use this as a damage opening? I think it's unreasonable to say it completely breaks combat flow, especially considering how rare it is in endgame fights like Rajang or Elder Dragons. Also, I never understood how it looks "unnatural." Like, it's just another type of flinch. Of course a monster would react like that if you hit it a bunch.
9:33 I just can't understand your point here. You admit yourself that World had low HP monsters, which made it easy. So how is increasing the HP by a lot a problem? And you just assume it's all because of the clutch claw? You didn't even consider the crazy amount of skills you were able to slot into your armor in Iceborne, the new weapon additions, or the fact that they just were making up for the low base game HP values. Of course they needed a high multiplier on World's HP values. They were way too low!
11:11 I've always heard this point about the monster hitzones, but I've found no evidence that it's actually true. As far as I know, base game Rathalos is the same as Iceborne Rathalos, same for every monster in base World. Until there's actual proof of this, I'm not inclined to believe it.
What I think people mean here is that monsters that were added to Iceborne had lower hitzones in general. And to an extent, they're right. Subspecies and Variant monsters had nerfed hitzones in general, such as Coral Pukei, Ebony Odogarron, Seething Bazel, and even Acidic Glav compared to normal Glavenus. But this is pretty common for subs and variants anyway, and the claw isn't really to blame here. Many monsters from Old games also had significantly BUFFED hitzones across the board. Tigrex for example never had anything above 45 (Weakness Exploit range, I'll just say WEX from now on) except for its face, but now it's claws and tail are WEX. Brachy also has a WEX tail, Glavenus has a WEX back, Narga a WEX tail, Barioth has WEX claws for blunt damage, and Alatreon just got MUCH higher hitzones all around. Rajang weirdly got pretty bad nerfed hitzones, but this kind of backfired because the claw is so useless on him anyway. The back legs aren't WEX even with a tenderize, and neither are his hardened arms, and you can't even tenderize his face. He can even throw you off of his arms even with a mantle on, altogether making him a fight where it's literally better to IGNORE the claw. Maybe claw affected SOME monster hitzones, like Namielle or some of the Subspecies, but overall I'm pretty sure the monster hitzone nerfs thing is literally untrue. (EDIT: I've actually been disproven on this! Although I still think there's a defensible point to be made in this regard. Check further replies.)
11:15 Get ready, cuz I'm about to bash Temporal and Rocksteady again. Yes, wallbangs are powerful, and if used optimally, result in tons of knockdowns. You know what makes that so easy? These two mantles! I heavily recommend taking them off and never looking back. Suddenly, wallbangs and tenderizes are much more of a challenge and are actually engaging, requiring skill to pull of and making it so you DON'T just get a bunch of free knockdowns from wallbangs all the time. Replace these two mantles with different ones. Use evasion if you're concerned about the damage loss. It's a huge damage boost when you dodge correctly. You can even use affinity booster to make up for the affinity lost from the WEX nerf! (Or you could build sets that reach 100% affinity anyway even without the full effect of WEX. It's still the most powerful skill in the game and honestly NEEDED the nerf) Point is, wallbangs are more fun when they actually take skill.
11:40-11:56 I will actively laugh at this point when it comes from people like you who say 4U or any other old game is the best MH game. First of all, if hunts take 25 mins without claw for you, that's straight up a skill issue. Something tells me you don't even realize that already high hitzones don't get as much of a benefit for tenderizing due to the formula. I suppose I can't blame you for that since that's not info the game tells you. But tenderizing something like a Rathian head isn't actually that much of an upgrade outside of the affinity, which can be made up for in different ways. I can see something like a Namielle taking that long without tenderizing because of it's generally low hitzone values, but even then I don't think most people realize the front legs are a higher hitzone than the face. Face isn't even WEX on Namielle when hydrated, but forelegs are.
And even IF hunts commonly took 25 minutes solo... that's still the best we've ever had it in a G rank in the series! You admitted you like 4U the most, but G rank hunts in that game aren't single-player scaled at all! Most of the highest G rank quests in that game just aren't viable solo, period, because they just have too much HP. I'd easily rather have a 25 minute hunt than having to wait 10 minutes doing NOTHING for some rando(s) to show up and actually make it reasonable for a quest to be done in the first place! I can understand not liking the clutch claw. But to claim it's forced on you, while claiming to favorite the game(s) where multi-player is ACTUALLY forced on you, is just a laughable stance to take in my opinion. I've done claw-less hunts myself, and I can tell you from experience that they last completely reasonable times.
13:05-13:17 No. Just no. NEVER use a knockdown to tenderize, unless you have a combo like Hammer or Dual Blades that tenderizes while keeping up DPS. Once again, you seriously overestimate how much damage a tenderize actually gives you. An already good hitzone, like a head, deals perfectly fine damage without tenderizing. Plus, if you can't even hit the tenderized spot frequently enough while the monster attacks you, the tenderize is very much not worth it. Tenderizing on a down isn't a DPS increase. Ideally, a tenderize is best when you're not able to get in regular moves anyway. That's why it's useful to do so against claggered monsters, flying monsters, or even to build up the tenderize with claw swipes as you go for a wall bang. (5 claw swipes is the same as a tenderize, and 3 is a half-tenderize).
This reply is getting long again so I'll do one more to finish my argument.
15:31-15:36 Correction: With the clutch claw, you had 14 different weapons all trying to perform various actions in various ways. Outside of even just tenderizing and wallbanging, different weapons had different goals when it came to claw usage and different ways of going about it. I've already said how many of the weapons have unique claw combos, but it goes even beyond that. SnS with the claw uppercut can tenderize AND wallbang at the same time. Hit the uppercut, then claw swipe 3 times, and flinch shot. Bam, a tenderize and a wallbang. Many weapons might tenderize just to get slinger ammo for their powerful slinger bursts or effects, like GL wyrmstake blast and IG kinsect feeding. Swaxe might use the claw to get a ZSD on a part they want. Lance might counter claw a charging monster even though it's already tenderized, just to stick to it and get it damage while it's attacking. Heck, any weapon might even use the claw to DODGE attacks on certain monsters. Alatreon and Fatalis both have downward breath moves that offer a chance to claw to the face to dodge AND deal damage. Many times it does just focus on tenderizing and wallbangs, yes. But that doesn't mean there aren't other interesting uses for the claw. Heck, GS and Hammer have glider mantle strats with it if you're into that.
Also, don't act like Rise didn't have the 14 different weapons all trying to do the same action in their own ways, that action being counters. Homogenized movesets is a huge issue with Rise and Sunbreak in my opinion due to the absurd amount of counters and I-frames or super armors. Spamming them is an overcentralizing focus on almost every weapon. And if you don't use them, not only do you not do as much damage, you also will have a much harder time because you're way more likely to actually get hit, due to the game being balanced around counters. At least not using clutch claw doesn't increase your chance of getting hit. In fact, it lowers it.
17:26-17:38 This point just feels like it comes from spite. You hate clutch claw, we get it. But saying that World "lies" to you? This is the most nit-picky thing I've ever heard about clutch claw. How about this: The old games lie to you by giving you the village quests with low HP monsters, and then give you the hub quests with insanely bloated health monsters and no single-player scaling. I'm saying this as a person who likes the old games and is playing 3U solo for the first time right now.
There's criticisms to be made everywhere. But it really just sounds like you are WANTING to be negative here with this remark about World "lying" to you. You saying stuff like "the clagger is a permanent stain on the game" just makes me think you're robbing yourself of enjoyment by being so negative in general. Sorry if I'm coming off as harsh, but this is just how it seems to me.
18:59 I agree with this. Don't add huge game-changing mechanics in expansions. I just don't think the clutch claw is as games-changing as you and many people claim. Maybe it's my bias from only being introduced to the game after it was already finished, thus never NOT having the clutch claw, but even then, I have played without it before, and it really isn't required. (I thus can also disprove your claim that World "lies" to you about the claw, since I have firsthand experience using it in base World and Iceborne).
I saw you playing in Fatalis gear in the video, and at that point, why bother with the claw if you don't want to? Monsters will die fast regardless, and the title update fights took a lot of focus away from the clutch claw as well (besides Safi). I touched on Rajang already, but Stygian Zinogre, Alatreon, and Fatalis all have excellent hitzones all around that make tenderizing not really necessary at all, particularly Alatreon and Fatalis (Tenderizing Fatalis' head literally only increases the hitzone by 1, and for Alatreon it's only by 3). I don't know, I just don't see the point of complaining about clutch claw at this point. Especially using such strong language as "ruined the entire game" and often coming off as framing your opinion as fact.
I hope I didn't come off as too rude or aggressive or anything. I just like talking and sharing my opinions, even if (or especially if) they're controversial. I also tend to write long paragraphs lol. I doubt anyone will actually find this comment, much less read all of it, but hey, if you did, congratulations!
owned him
You are right with most of your points. But there are couple of things Heavy Wings is unfortunately correct about. The hitzones of the monsters in World were nerfed for MR. It can be checked on MHW Kiranico. For some nerfed hitzones, applying the tenderizing formula would give you the hitzones of base World, making it obvious the nerf was to accommodate the tenderizing mechanic. The tenderizing mechanic is not a neat damage buff, rather not tenderizing is a neat damage loss. It was a bad cure for a manufactured disease. This turned tenderizing into a chore rather than something feeling positive and optional (yes, you can ignore tenderizing and still beat the monsters, but it is objectively playing less efficiently, much like if you were not putting decorations on your armor). The clutch claw would have been a lot better without this unnecessary and frustrating step. Still, with the last update, the tenderizing was just that: an unnecessary and frustrating step added to a solid and grounded gameplay, which still remained solid and good despite it. For the Wirebugs/Switch Skills, sure they may be more fun to play with than the clutch claw, but they transform the gameplay into something barely looking like MH gameplay. The developers also needed to make the monsters react just as over the top to keep up with the increased mobility and powers hunters got. For this, and many other reasons, I much prefer Iceborne to Sunbreak and hope MHWilds will follow MHW road rather than the gimmick fest which is Sunbreak.
Having said that, I think the whole "Iceborne is ruined" is biased opinion as all of Heavy Wings arguments could apply to MH4U (the best MH, according to him, no offence to that game as it is one of my favorites). With MH4U Apex monsters, you needed to sharpen your weapon with special stones just for the sake of not bouncing off on Apex armor (which, for some Apex like Deviljho and Zinogre, covered weakspots as well are parts IG normally collects from its red extract) and dealing elemental/statut damage. Their durations were short and the cooldowns long. This was as much of a chore as tenderizing and ignoring or mismanaging this mechanic would cause your DPS to take a nosedive, especially for weapons relying on elemental and statut. Then, there are the lv140 Guild Quests, where the monsters have the triple of their normal G-rank HP (and Heavy Wings thinks Iceborne HP and MR quests lasting 20 minutes with intermediate equipment are too much) and 2-3 times the attack power, meaning they can OS you with half of their moveset. "Oh, but it is pure optional content for hardcore players"? Nope, Guild Quests were the only way to unlock the best charms and, more egregious, the relic weapons. Top tier relic weapons were at least 20% stronger (this is in the range of the tenderizing damage increase we get in Iceborne overall) than the best augmented crafted weapons, yet had an atrocious RNG system behind them, even worse than the Kulve Taroth weapon system. To give you an idea, imagine that when you do drop a Kjarr weapon of the type you want you still have to pray the RNGesus as the raw, sharpness and element/statut (and lack of or need for awaken) are ALSO RNG. An awful system and, for this reason, I cannot put MH4U higher than Iceborne. "Don't like them? Don't use them". Too bad if you were doing lv140 Guild Quests since, as lv140 monsters are HP sponges and can OS you with half of their moves, you want to kill them as fast as possible (in MP, this is done by spamming traps, flash and mounting because otherwise, the failing rates are higher than Iceborne Fatalis). The longer the fights drag on, the exponentially higher your chance of carting due to mistakes. The 20% damage increase from using a top tier relic weapon vs a crafted weapon can be the difference between success and failure, even more so if you play solo and against lv140 Apex monsters as you also have to deal with the bs Apex mechanic (you need to pile up the DPS before your stones run out to temporarily disable the Apex state, then pile up the DPS before the monster returns to Apex state, rinse wash repeat). Again, MH4U is one of my favorite MH games and I can cut it some slack as it was the first MH game to introduce an endgame at all, but dear I much prefer Iceborne endgame to MH4U's and Sunbreak's (the Anomaly investigations essentially being the Guild Quests while replacing the atrocious RNG relic weapons with an as atrocious RNG system: the qurio augment system).
@johan9428 Interesting about the hitzones point, thanks for pointing that out to me! I just took a quick glance at it, and found it a bit interesting seeing some of the hitzones. I did notice a couple of things that I think still let me defend claw a little bit here though. I looked at the Raths first, and the main thing I noticed was that their heads (the main spot you want to hit anyway) didn't go down all that much, only by 5 (I only checked cutting as well, might be much different for ranged in particular) while their wings were knocked WAY down from like 50 to 20 or something. I don't think getting the head specifically nerfed by only a little is that bad, especially considering, as stated before, base World monsters die very quickly. And the Iceborne wing nerf on the Raths actually makes their wings closer to their original hitzones in the old games, so I don't think that change specifically was meant for the claw, it was just re-balancing. (Although Rise interestingly put the wings back at 50. Huh.) Like I said, I joined in only after Iceborne was done, so I can't even imagine how fast a Rathalos would've died in base World with a hitzones of 50 on the wings and 5 more hitzone on the head. Even after the Iceborne changes, base World monsters to me feel like they die way fast even without claw. So I would argue that some of the nerfed hitzones were arguably beneficial for the game regardless of claw or not. I only looked at the Raths and like 2 others though, and I'm not going to claim that they represent the entirety of the roster.
Although from looking at Tobi, I noticed something even more interesting. Like you said, some of his hitzones are nerfed about to the level that tenderizing puts them back at what they originally were. But I took a quick glance at his RISE hitzones, and they're actually the same as ICEBORNE'S, not base World's. This makes me question again whether or not all of the hitzone nerfs were purely to balance around clutch claw, and if some of them were really just way too high in the first place. Tobi's tail is 65 after the nerf, and with a tenderize, that goes to 73. That's not even as high as it was in base World, which was just straight up 80. Holy crap that thing would have died fast before Iceborne! Some of the nerfs were just needed, regardless of clutch claw. I mean, poor Pukei! He had a 95 hitzone head in World! No wonder Heavy Wings described base World's difficulty as "nonexistent." Pukei's Iceborne head is only 60, meaning a tenderize only brings that up to 70. That's a much better designed hitzone imo than base World had. They did revert his hitzones in Rise though.
But thanks for bringing up the hitzone nerf point to me! I still stand by that it wasn't purely because of claw though as many people make it out to be. There's plenty of examples like I said before of old game monsters with actually buffed hitzones, and base World's terribly underpowered monsters were definitely also a factor in the changes.
Also, just to make sure I understand correctly, base World was also effected by Iceborne's hitzone nerfs, right? As in, Pukei-Pukei for example has a 60 hitzone head instead of 95 currently even in low and high rank of World, right?
A few things I can agree with, such as the reset mechanic on monsters being tired - that's too 'gamified' for how realistic and grounded World's combat generally feels, but I feel that your take on the Clutch v Wirebug mechanics are really off.
- You say the clutch completely ruined World's combat, to the point you find no fun in it, and that it isn't optional. It is 100% optional, but it is 100% optimal to use. Asmon pretty much beat the entire game barely touching it, or rations for that matter lol. The wirebug is 100% optimal and borderline not optional, it's way too baked into the game. You say that someone will know if they don't like the wirebug and will likely not enjoy the game and seem fine with it, but to me that's such a terrible thing. If you don't like the clutch, you can play without it, just add 5 mins to your hunt. If you don't like the wirebug, you literally lose massive amounts of mobility and sections of your kit, often locking key moves in the process. I can't see how this is a win for Rise.
It sounds like you only have 2 real complaints that aren't related to bugs or sloppy execution:
1) The "clagger", and 2) The tenderizing.
I think the saying the clutch claw ruined the game is very hyperbolic, but hey, that's youtube. I like it more than wirebugs for a more "realistic" and "grounded" combat. I think they just need to change its place/importance in the combat flow. I also don't see a problem with some weapons having better clutch claw mechanics than others. Not every weapon is areal and not every weapon is ranged and not every weapon is good at knocking out monsters or cutting tails.
replaying worldborne rn after playing risebreak and the clutch claw is just so annoying man...
You're just bad lmao
@@MrTweedle fair enough lmao
bro accepted it lmao ye i also didnt like it at first but after i got the hang of it its super fun im not sure how good u are at clutch clawing but it gets pretty fun when u understand it fully@@sylnz97
I love MHW. But I haaaate the clutch claw. Especially if you’re running solo and is harder to find the opportunity to tenderize.
Clutch claw wasn't the best but it was a improvement, it allowed for players to stay on the hunt by riding on the monster so they can follow, the slinger unload allows players who don't get much exhaust the ability to Stun, and it generally improves the combat with heavy hitting clutch claw attacks, some people don't use it because it wasn't necessary for a good hunt, it could expand a player's playstyle, that's why I think It was a good edition
If you suck just say that, if you hate it that much don’t use it
The clutch claw was good; the balancing around it was *horrendous*. Nothing in a monster Hunter game should be borderline required the same way that tenderizing monsters was. I’ve been playing Iceborn Community Edition and wow, the clutch claw is legitimately so fun when it isn’t used purely to annoy the player. The option to flinch a monster and clutch onto it to throw it around or weaken parts for more damage is amazing. But with they way its balanced in vanilla it’s not even an option, you basically have to do it.
I want to comment on the wirebug chapter, but first I'll say I play Iceborne with the ICE mod, and it solves the clutch claw/clagger issues. Onto wirebugs: I agree with everything you said, HOWEVER, I don't think the wirebug is comparable to the clutch claw. The clutch claw is a massive inconvenience on top of solid MH gameplay (restored by the ICE mod). On the other hand, the wirebug is the feature that Sunbreak is designed around. Like you said, you either like it or you realize Sunbreak may not be for you, but you cannot even try to ignore the feature.
Why would you want to ignore wirebugs? I think they very negatively the flow of combat. Forget about positioning, just stand still and counter, every weapon can. What attack should you prioritize at this point in the fight? Almost always wirebug. Do you play charge blade? Then forget about any attack other than SAED. I'm not exaggerating, just counter to max phials and let it rip over, and over, and over. Don't even worry about getting hit. In fact, if you watch some speedruns, it's actually optimal to SAED, get hit, wirebug recover, counter, SAED. This is related to the other huge issue: monsters. I won't get into this since it's a whole other topic, but, for charge blade specifically, many monsters move so fast that when you commit to an SAED you are agreeing to get hit. The solution to fast monsters is also wirebug related: the pizza cutter. Some people like it, but I find it very boring. Stand still, bzzzzz, wirebug shield, bzzzzz, repeat. In both playstyles, charge blade boils down to standing still and spamming wirebug skills. Notice that I never mentioned sword mode or guard points.