I feel Cluth claw gave us the best way a practical human being can get close to a Bigass monster which are always moving faster being bigger.. the Worse thing is wirebugs in Rise and monster riding.. Monster riding removed the ELEGANCE, the Attitude & personality of monster.. Like really ( Riding shagaru magala, Rajang, riding on wind lord Kushala itself fyck off )
@@SpadeApeiron No mechanic should directly affect damage numbers as the game becomes inevitably balanced around it and the mechanic is forced on you. The Clutch Claw should have only increased partbreak damages or been a reasonably powerful attack, which would have felt more of a reward for getting the opening. The Clutch Claw can shatter from the get-go Kulve Taroth's arms and chest gold armor and is the only way to safely punish Alatreon's floor is ice attack. The Clutch Claw should have been focused on stuff like that rather than tenderizing hitzones, which doesn't make sense as clutch claw attacks are average damage at best, why are your regular high damaging attacks not tenderizing too?
@@johan9428 Yea good point ~ Clutch claw mechanic should have had limited uses and when it used tactically it'd be like our SUPER move. in case of safijiva we have to use Clutch claw to partbreak. without clutchclaw Safijiva quest can never be completed..
How iceborne ruined this channel The expansion was enjoyable, one of the biggest expansions sold in gaming, millions of people love it, except a guy on here who felt like whining about a gimmic in a game where shotguns can be made from a hide of a monster
@@brianleal87 I disagree with Heavy Wings saying that the clutch claw ruined the entire game as I still like it a lot for everything else. But he is right when he says that the tenderizing mechanic is a neat negative which brings nothing good to the gameplay, only makes it more tedious for the sake of it. The tenderizing mechanic is viewed by most players as the worst thing to have ever been implemented in MH. I would personally be fine with the clutch claw without the tenderizing mechanic and all the balancing around it. But the tenderizing mechanic? I hope we never see it or something similar ever again in future games.
I wonder if the clutch claw's importance was a result of a lack of focus on singleplayer testing. I felt it was a lot less overbearing when the task of softening was shared between more players. Though to be honest I didn't mind the clutch claw all that much and enjoyed iceborne a lot despite it.
That is a good point. In four players, 1 clagger = 4 tenderized spots. As a solo player, you get one and it is notl like you will have access to this tenderized spot non-stop.
I was elemental LBG main in worlds and unless u have some1 softening the right parts for ranged damage u will go 2-4 times per fight to camp to restock ammo or run around farming....
I think the biggest issue with the clutch claw is tenderizing. If it had been a tool to grab on for an extra hit with some weapons and for blademaster weapons to get easier hits on flying monsters, I think that would have been a great addition. Wallbangs are a more gray area in quality, but I think they're cool. I think they should have been nerfed though.
In a sense yeah, but even without the tenderising the claw is just weirdly implemented. The aiming not really working, only some weapons having integrated combos, being thrown off constantly etc. It was not a good idea to add it in the expansion.
@@HeavyWings Personally, I had little issue with the Claw. Sure it adds tenderizing but as a SnS player often unless I get more chances to do it, I'm better off just finding the other spots to whack a monster. Times I use the claw are -avoid an attack -tenderize specific monster spots over time to make certain stuff easier to do, such as Rajang legs in case I just wish to add damage in. -Extra damage on a fleeing monster -The Wallbang. I will say though the big swords should of gotten faster animations for their big tenderizers. I still prefer the clutch over Wirebugs though anyday. Personally find then very clunky and it wasn't until freaking Narwa that I figured out how they work. Even then, I don't get the shifts, I see people abuse it and get slapped to death, and it ain't my cup of tea. There's also nothing quite like Alatreon shredding through your mantle when you clutch his head and mercing you. That's a fun anti-claw thing and it naturally plays in with finding openings on the guy.
@@Ramotttholl I actually don't like mounting in Rise either, and it ties into the general dislike of Wirebugs. I really enjoyed the actual strat of mounting the Monster for a good knockdown in World. Now it's just yeeting around and stuff Edit; should clarify its specifically the stamina contest. Alatreon and Fatalis are pretty fun to hop on but a mistake can potentially ruin the attempt. Those dashes are brutal.
The poor integration between all the weapons is the reason why Lance is my favorite weapon in World. The counter feels actually integrated into the moveset and helps keeps the uptime on tenderization without breaking the flow, and the super armor is something all the weapons should have had
You also have a def boost and a resistance to being thrown off if you "counter grab" but i main lance and i will be honest it keep you from sharpening alots
Insect glaive had a kinda similar system where you would be flying to reposition anyways, so instead of descending thrust you can descending clutch. Kinda still sucked because you need to tenderize twice
Credit where credit is due: The Clutch Claw made fighting certain monsters (*COUGH* KIRIN *COUGH*) actually fun and bearable. Bouncing off of Kirin when it was enraged was not fun. With the clutch claw, all we had to do was make sure to keep it tenderized. It certainly beat trying to aim for the horn in vain.
As a Lance main, the counter clutch claw move was pure heaven. Just waiting like a Matadore against a charging bull, only to slam right back against their face with KO inducing force. Granted, the application and sheer necessity did get old.
The Clutch Claw is why I installed the Iceborne Community Edition (ICE) mod. The modders rebalanced the game to make the CC an optional tool and not mandatory by restoring hitzone values and reducing the effectiveness of softening.
I do mention that mod near the end of the video. I would download it but I want to beat Iceborne as it is at least one more time because the mod rebalances a lot of things.
@@chadderbug7587 same. I have 6k+ hours in World, and honestly, 4u is probably my favorite next to FU. I remember thinking a few hundred hours in, "I'm not enjoying this like the others," and that was _before_ the clutch claw. I find I liked MH more as a hunting sim-like. There are videos on how Hunting "lost" its roots that are great teachers of the old ways. I'm rare enough as a PSP solo player convert, but those even fewer I met as PS2 adopters from first and second gen... that would have been my paradise.
The wall bangs and attacks weapons got were what I liked about the clutch claw. But the forced tenderizing and being required to do certain things with it for specific monsters got very tedious. So I love the idea of the claw, it’s just the implementation of it is at best mixed.
@@brownboy1468 if we don’t like it, we don’t like it. Simple as. It’s a fucking boring and annoying tool to use. And I don’t like having to stop what I’m doing to tenderize some part or else I’ll miss out on big damage. Don’t tell us to stop complaining over literal personal opinions.
@@brownboy1468 Look, I don’t think cc is a huge deal most of the time either and for most monsters, I think it can be largely ignored. But…take a look at a monster like Safi’Jiiva, or Fatalis, these monsters have huge health pools and tiny time limits in comparison to the rest of the monsters. If you don’t use the cc for these monsters, which offer some of the best gear in the game, more likely than not you will NOT be winning and by proxy, not be able to acquire some of the best end game gear
Never realized the clutch claw wasn't part of the base game, I just remember not spamming it as much back when I played it on my brother's PS4, and thinking why I didn't use it as much. Probably cause it didn't exist lol.
now that i see the lance CC move it makes me think of that one meme with the a dude slowly approaching you with his arm in an open state. and now i'll never unsee it
The mandatory tenderizing is what kills me about clutch claw. They can incorporate clutch claw in different ways but instead they made the hunt more of a chores.
@@Knights_of_the_Nine i think you played a different game if you think clutch claw auto stagger the monster. Not only they nerf some jewel so they can incorporate tenderizing to the skill, they also ruin the flow of combat by adding clagger to the monster. And no, I can't pretend the clutch claw is not there if my damage output got downscale because i don't tenderize the monster.
@ilham adi gunawan The only way your damage is "downscaled" by the claw is the WEX nerf. Seeing it as a nerf if you don't use it (instead of a buff if you do) is a pessimistic attitude, which of course would lead you to hate it. And face it, WEX is OP and needed a nerf. Even if you don't use the claw at all, it's still the best skill in the game. And if you try to say that the nerfed hitzones are a way your damage was downscaled, nerfed monster hitzones to try and force the claw is really just... not a thing. I'm sorry, it's just not. To my knowledge, no base game monsters actually had their hitzones significantly changed going into Iceborne, at least not to the extent to make claw "required" (which it never was). What DID happen was that some monster SUBSPECIES like Coral Pukei-Pukei and Acidic Glavenus ended up with worse overall hitzones than their base species, but that usually happens with subspecies anyway. Plus, even then, those monsters still always had one or more hitzones that was able to get the first part of WEX that didn't require the claw, just like every other monster. This isn't even mentioning that World was the first game with single player scaling. Outside of base World, Iceborne at the time was literally the easiest MH game to solo, claw or not. And claggers REALLY don't happen that often at the endgame of Iceborne. Title Update monsters especially almost NEVER clagger, and Fatalis doesn't even have one at all. You're lucky if you get a single clagger to happen on a Rajang or Alatreon. I could go on, but unless you want to continue the discussion, I won't bother you with a longer comment lol. (EDIT: I have now actually seen proof that hitzone nerfs were indeed a thing in Iceborne and now feel dumb for claiming they weren't lol. I still maintain my opinion though that they weren't severe enough to make tenderizing "mandatory." The most severe nerfs from what I can tell were on already easy monsters like Pukei-Pukei and Tobi-Kadachi. But something like Rathalos and Rathian's heads were only nerfed by around 5, which isn't a huge difference on an already great hitzone.)
@@Andrew-hz5zc firstly, i don't know ehat WEX is, sorry haha And for your other take, it's fair but the general gist I'm getting at is i still feel even though statistical and system wise it's a minor nerfs, it's still bugs me that everytime my TCS hit, there's a small amount of different in the damage number if i tenderize it or not. And everytime the monster got to clagger state, i always miss my hit because the state itself demands the player to at least cluch to the monster, either to wallbang it or to tenderize it (or to reset the clagger timer), not to mention how far the monster position are before and while in clagger state. It's aggravating at least for me, and i love my ooga booga big TCS number lol
I love World as it is, but your analyisis on the clutch claw is pretty fair. I think it would be better if they added the mounting mechanics to the clutch claw. For example, if the monster attacks, instead of it making you instanly fall off, it would drain your stamina quickly unless you hold on to the monster. And you can tenderize as many parts as you want for the amount of stamina you have.
I totally agree, the best part of the clutch claw was the attacks it gave some weapons, I love Greatsword, gunlance, Lance and Hammer to begin with so it was a really nice edition. I hated tenderizing monsters and everything else around it though.
I didn't ay many weapons in World, but I liked that you could combo into a clutch grab with the hammer pretty easily. Then there's IG. I hated and always avoided the claw. It was horribly difficult to aim from the air, so it didn't matter that you could use it airborne lol. I never got the muscle memory down of clicking the stick to swap to clutch claw, so I'd end up sheathing first. It wasn't til endgame of Iceborne that I felt really forced to tenderize
One thing that I wanted to add is another side effect that the Clutch Claw brought to the table: The Agitator skill. Even in older games, Agitator/Challenger was a top tier skill to have in G-Rank but in Iceborne it's on a whole other level and because of 2 reasons: 1: Agitator secret: An armor set ability that increases the maximun lever of Agitator up to 7 for even greater benefits, including extra 20% affinity. 2: Clutch Claw allows you to keep the monster constantly enraged and therefore keeping Agitator always up. This meant that, on top of all the thing you mentioned about the Clutch Claw, now you're also encouraged even more to spam the Clutch Claw, otherwise you also loose all the benefits from Agitator 7. It also means that you're always fighting monsters while enraged in Iceborne with barely any down time. Fighting monsters like this can get pretty stressful.
Im a switch blade user and I love the clutch claw. Yes it is kind of annoying to miss or my attacks get canceled but i just try harder or figure out another strategy to use my abilities more often.
I actually enjoyed the clutch claw a lot. Once you learn the monster you are able to know when the timing is optimal to clutch. I also don't think the stagger animation was bad, i felt it was more for a breathing space rather than an interruption to my combo. I don't think it is forced, i have friends that don't like it and would speed run almost every monster in less than 5 minutes, yes the tenderize reduces this time a lot, but it is still optional. I actually don't like wirebugs, like you said at the start, if a feature is optional and you dont like it, you have the option not to use it, and that holds true to the clutch claw, but take LS for example. You can't helm splitter without wirebug, That is something that is forced, when you take away a core skill from the weapon and turn it into a gadget that has a cooldown, that is the biggest problem of wirebugs which was just somewhat fixed with risen kushala's wind mantle. But I honestly would take the clutch claw always first before wire bugs. At the end of the day i feel its a matter of opinion, but still, cool video. Thanks for showing your point of view and critizism honestly, that is something this community needs a lot!
The slinger itself was fine, I especially loved catching endemics and making pets of them, but yeah, needing to tenderize and wall bash every single monster was a chore.
So true. I loved the pets and just got addicted to trying to get all the crowns. Lol. But tenderizing is definitely a chore. Especially on Safi’jiiva. Good grief is that fight just overly tedious.
@@Slepepeit's was? All I can remember is people failing the mission cause they choose to put tenderizing above their own future. Ain't that the reason it gets mad and well... attacks you without chill? So you can't depend on it and actually play the game with the damage you get without tenderizing
@@Cataclysm999 I played the entire game and 100% it without the claw I maybe used it a hand full of times at the very start of the game in the test area, hell I still don't know how to tenderize to this day nor wall bang you can act like it doesn't exist and still be able to do all the content like no joke I've been able to do the hardest hunts in the game solo without ever using the claw the only use I found from it was shooting stuff out of it to keep the monster from fleeing and shooting a environment piece like the huge rock falling.
I only use the claw to hitch a ride on the monster when he is running away then I hop off when low stam. CB user here and I don't need to tenderize shiiiiiet.
I played through World and Iceborne on both PC and PS4. On PS4 I got World at launch, played it extensively, and then picked it up again once Iceborne came out. Upon starting Iceborne, the absolute tank that was Beotodus really slapped me in the face. I couldn't believe how big of a jump it was in difficulty from base World! I then played Iceborne even more extensively than I did World. And around the time Fatalis launched I had built myself a PC and was working my way through a PC save of World. Once I got to Iceborne I remembered how much of a tanky bastard Beotodus was and bracing myself for another 20 minute hunt. But that's not what happened. All my time playing Iceborne on PS4 had made me more than adept at using the clutch claw and flinch shot to their full effectiveness, and since I was playing on PC with both lances and hammers, my weapons of choice meshed extra well with it. I ended up taking down Beotodus just as fast as any other hunt in Iceborne, tacking a couple minutes onto the timer to account for my usage of high rank equipment. The difference between using the claw and not using it is very, very easily felt, and it's a night and day difference unfortunately.
I went through the same process, except i went from Xbox to ps4. I also remember struggeling in a long drawn out battle with Beotodus the first go. The second go round was smooth. Though I honestly don't believe it was from the clutch claw. When I first fought Beo, I was not only new to the monster. But also new to the damage, speed and health it had. I struggled to recognize openings because I wasn't used to the snow. I struggled in all aspects. The second time we met, I was fully comfortable with every element of that fight. Whether i used the clutch claw or not, it was going to go smoothly because I was at a COMPLETELY different skill level then I was the first time. I came into that fight better prepared mentally and also better equipped.
i can agree but most fights were generally 20mins. so if it didn't exist you be forced into a 20 min hunt. it just makes it easier. also to me it never felt needed hell i rarely even noticed the difference
I've played Monster Hunter since Monster Hunter Freedom on the PSP, and honestly... I love the clutch claw and a lot of my friends who used to play with me from before do...
Greatsword main from Iceborne here, While I wouldn't say Clutch Claw ruined Iceborne.. It did seriously break a flow of a hunt so lot. infact, in the very late game you could do away with tenderising as long as you hit a weakpoint because honestly, the meta was to keep a monster enraged or on a floor due VERY easily stackable secret skill. If only wallbanging was something you could do with slinger ammo and succesful mount, it would have been a lot better. IMHO. Mounting was mostly weaksauce in World
I found ICE to be quite helpful. My main gripe with IB was the guiding lands since it was very grindy to get all the way to MR100 and level regions solo. The CC balancing made Ruiner much more enjoyable for me since trying to tenderize him felt extremely difficult. The only downside of ICE is that almost no other mods work with it.
ICE is good but it doesn't fix any of the problems I had with the game pre-Iceborne. Like how bad the stun effects are and other monsters constantly interrupting your hunts. It got really old really fast and it often feels like I'm spectating instead of playing.
The only weapon that I really used the clutch claw with was my switch axe because it made it easier to get on the certain monster parts, and use its ability to do major damage to that one part specially if you wanted to cut tails off, it was pretty much the only weapon I need the clutch claw for.
The clutch claw looks like it should have just been a gap closer. Like it could be used to move with the monster for certain attacks like greatsword charges.
The clutch claw was good; the balancing around it was *horrendous*. Nothing in a monster Hunter game should be borderline required the same way that tenderizing monsters was. I’ve been playing Iceborn Community Edition and wow, the clutch claw is legitimately so fun when it isn’t used purely to annoy the player. The option to flinch a monster and clutch onto it to throw it around or weaken parts for more damage is amazing. But with they way its balanced in vanilla it’s not even an option, you basically have to do it.
Absolutely, I really dislike both of those mechanics. It's also one of the reasons why I didn't really connect with Rise. In Rise you feel more like some superhero/demigod than a Hunter.
@robinmattheussen2395 I know, monsters are punching bags most of the time, and barely any preparation before the quest, no bombs, no meat, traps, flash bombs, just beat it until it dies.
@@anrc5439 no preparation before quests started with world though, i never prepared for quests in base world because it was such a joke difficulty wise, only used flash bombs on like 2 annoying monsters and forgot about bombs and traps altogether outside of capture quests, not to mention things like movi g while healing and the pathetic damage monsters deal make you feel like a demigod.
@@anrc5439Idk man, the monsters had a massive speed boost in rise and especially in sunbreak. The 90% of Iceborne's roster ain't adapted to the clutch claw.
I really like the clutch claw in theory, primarily because, on the face of it, it's a nice middle ground between rise's wirebugs giving too much power and freedom to the player and something more restrained. like being able to make a monster rush forward and have it hit a wall is a really good and fun mechanic and when coupled with how easy it is to fall of (ccompared to mounting for example) it makes a great risk/reward system. in theory. of course in practice it was heavily overtuned and what should've been something you could use occationally in a hunt to push an advantage became what you described here.
Use the claw. Use the claw. Use the claw... Attempts to use the claw on a beastie flailing around... After three tries targeting the head, I end up on its hind leg and then I get damage, fireblight and poison from its mouth. Mm. Logical.
Fundamentally, I think it speaks to just how bad Claw was that mods exist whose sole purpose is to minimise or outright remove Claw's role in combat. Nobody is modding underwater combat out of 3U, or removing Wirebugs from Rise, but Claw was so genuinely terrible that people resorted to mods to just not have to deal with it. World is probably the only MH game where there is a sizeable number of dedicated players who passionately prefer the Base game over the expansion, and Claw is the sole reason for that.
I like the concept of the clutch claw, but in practice it didn’t work out quite as well as it could’ve. However I grew to like it more over time learning when I can get an opening to tenderize the monster. Having to tenderize felt tedious but it still was a little bit rewarding tendering monsters like Fatalis or Alatreon or AT Velkhana, monsters that really don’t like when you clutch on them. When you do learn their attacks and find a safe opening to tenderize or flinch shot it is rewarding, and adds another layer of combat, but in its execution it did start to feel tedious having to constantly tenderize monsters. The staggers do help to get time to tenderize but the fact they get pushed back so far is so frustrating when you whiff your helm breaker because the spirit thrust staggered them The janky aim of the clutch claw is also so frustrating
I personally liked the clutch claw, both visually and mechanically, however I definitely think it's balanced poorly. I feel as though it'd be better if tenderizing didn't increase damage dealt, so monsters wouldn't have to be balanced around it, but instead focused entirely on part breaks. Then, tenderizing is optional and is just there to help farming, or in specific fights by weakening a monster. Since I only really use IG, my only issue with it was that it'd take 2 attacks to get the tenderize off, but other than that it added onto the weapon's gameplay quite a bit. Being able to dive with the clutch claw midair and latch onto whatever I hit, or using it after a mount to grapple onto a monster's head before touching the ground. It was cool and fun. Wallbangs were alright for me, mostly as a result of fights being longer, thus needing the extra openings, but in my experience it never got to the point where monsters spent too much of the fight on the ground (except Ruiner Nergi, that boi lives on banana peels). On the other hand, wirebugs made Rise and Sunbreak so easy for me that the only times I ever felt threatened was during the emergency event quests of base Rise and the higher end anomaly investigations of Sunbreak. The extra air time and mobility IG got with wirebugs made, and still makes, pretty much every single hunt extremely safe. Not to say it isn't fun tho, wirebugs are just as cool to me as the clutch claw. Of course, such experiences with either game are entirely subjective, and that's just how it was for me.
What I like about wirebugs is that it keeps the flow of combat "flowing" and it gives you strategy options, you can avoid using skills so you can jump out from a hit and keep fighting, you dont need to superman dive to avoid superattacks, if a monster gets too far away, wirebug to him and keep fighting, everything keeps you in the flow, the game never stops just so you can preform a specific action.... Well, at least now that riding isnt mandatory it doesn't. Ive been playing this series since monhun 1 and honestly risebreak has been ny favourite combat so far
I've always wondered why I didn't like the claw as much as I liked the wirebugs, and I realise it all comes down to tenderizing. I wholeheartedly believe I wouldn't love the wirebugs as much as I do if they kept the tenderizing mechanic. Sure, wirebugs are basically the claws taken to the extreme, but it's the fun part of that extreme. Instead of aiming a specific part of the monster, I can just zip onto or zip away wherever and whenever. Instead of tenderizing, we have silkbinds that are completely optional to use and are only mandatory for certain builds(the switchaxe counter is kinda important to build up the gauge in power phial switchaxes). In Sunbreak I can play like a traditional hunter, just a lot faster and more mobile, or utilise the bugs to their fullest potential. In Iceborne, the claw is a must. Anyways, that's why I don't like the claw I guess.
I hated the Clutch Claw for essentially why this video pointed out. It was a not fun mechanic the game forced on you if you didn't want to make each hunt take 35+ minutes. It felt bad and it felt like the game was constantly slapping you and going "Use the CC or else". It made me not even finish Iceborne. I desperately hope it doesn't return to MH again. That said I didn't particularly care for the Wirebugs either. They made the game too zippy and also felt like it punished you if you wanted to play without them. And Wyvern Riding just felt like them trying to slap together the wall banging of IB and the monsties from Stories into a weird, OP mishmash. Between hating most of Iceborne and getting bored of Rise long before SB came out I'm wary of MH6. I desperately hope it goes back to the more 3U/4U still game instead of the gimmickfest Gen 5 has been.
Never had that much an issue with the clutch claw. I recently started Rise and noticed that the rhythm and weight of attacks feels much less impactful. And monsters tend to be quite relentless in attacks to the point of stunlocking me to cart. That barely ever happened in World. World had a slower methodical pace and I liked that a lot. A lot of Rise faster pace can be found in the Wirebug moves. A lot of them are dash, lunge or counter based. Makes sense but also means the rhythm is much less forgiving. That being said, I do see the argument of clutch law being not fully integrated. The idea fitted the more methodical style but it was kinda just aiming in the wrong direction. My gripe is a different one, with clutch claw anything regarding slingshot that was not triggering boulders to fall down became borderline useless. I liked using the slingshot as a tool in the arsenal. But most MR creatures had outright immunity. Behemoth was an entire fight dedicated to the slingshots functionality. That died with iceborne. Maybe a nerv had to be down. But I dont remember or caring what I shot at most wyverns as long as they took damage from what was falling down. It's a shame. One mechanic should replace the one established earlier in the same game. To me riding and clutch claw in iceborne is roughly the same as Wirebug riding in rise. Just with less agency over it. It's going to happen anyway and it's basically both a gloryfied qte. Jump moves were one of my favorites in world, especially when they ended in a ride. In Rise you can pull them of so easy they had to be nerfed into the ground. Which is a shame. I think if clutch claw was simply giving access to maneuver to and around a creature that would have been fine.
World was my first Monster Hunter, and Iceborne was fuckin' tight as fuck, but as soon as I got to Alatreon I started to realize that something had been nagging at me, and that was "Mandatory playstyle." I loved World because I could fuck around and still manage to beat the monsters. My friends and I had a lot of fun fighting random things, screaming, making armor, etc. None of us used the Slinger almost at all, save to flashbug monsters out of the air. But then the Clutch Claw came along. I didn't mind it at first, but it was like an itch I was sort of ignoring. I noticed that every single hunt started feeling exactly the same. Clutch claw tenderize, hit that part for 1 minute, wallbangs, claggers, etc., with our actual fighting being like 80% "Beat it up while it's on the ground after a wallbang." The game completely ceased feeling dynamic and just felt formulaic. No matter the monster, same routine. Clutch to its head, smash it into a wall, beat it up, bonus points if we put barrel bombs by the wall beforehand, tenderizing, etc. I started like, viscerally hating that if you weren't attacking the Tenderized part, you were doing like 25% damage, and sometimes would just clang off of them. It went from "Attack the part you're trying to break" or "Attack the head to try to get a stun" or "Attack the tail to cut it," to "Attack the tenderized part or you're wasting everyone else's time." Now that brings me to Alatreon. Why'd he make me realize the playstyle felt mandatory? Because after 300 attempts at Alatreon, my friends and I finally realized that it was basically mandatory to bring Fire weapons on two of us and Ice weapons on the other two, and we literally had to DPS-check break the horns at specific intervals or else we failed the hunt. The game was literally forcing us, very suddenly, to play a very specific way or we couldn't progress at all. That's when it all hit me like a ton of bricks. Alatreon's elemental weaknesses and the mandatory horn breaking, the Clutch Claw tenderizing and wallbangs, they weren't just "Do these to make the fight go faster," they were "Do these or you'll fail the hunt because there's no way you'll beat the DPS-checks or hunt timer otherwise." I only beat Fatalis one time in World, and that was it, I gave up after that, threw in the towel, and even though my friends kept playing for another full year I had completely lost interest in it because I do not like being punished for not utilizing mandatory gimmicks like the Clutch Claw, wallbanging and the Alatreon ice/fire/hornbreak gimmicks. A game like Monster Hunter is fun when the most important choices you make are what weapon fits your playstyle, what decorations you have and how much knowledge you have of a monster's attack patterns. But it rapidly screeches to a catastrophic twenty car pile-up of unfun-ness when the game very suddenly says "Alright idiot, here's a brand new gimmick, and if you don't use it and get good at using it and reuse it to weaken body parts on the monster literally every minute, you're a fucking idiot and you're gonna fail the hunt. Fuck you." So tldr: Improve your reading comprehension it's not the end of the world to take 1 minute and 45 seconds to read a comment.
If the clutch claw was only used for the occasional wall bang and extra hit/gap close it would've been great imo. Revert hit zones to what they were in world, remove tenderize, remove the clagger and put some sort of limitation on wall bang so a non enraged monsters get to actually do something and it's fixed. There are mods that have done things like these.
The way you describe how Clutch Claw affects Iceborne reminds me of slag in Borderlands 2's Ultimate Vault Hunter Mode. Coincidentally both these can ruin the flow of combat if your build doesn't synergise with it and the game can become a slog if you don't use them.
Biggest issue with clutch is tenderizing, I love the idea of it, hey turn a non weak point into a weak point, but they ended up making hitzones more like, hey, tenderize the weakest point, and now it's a weak point.... I'm a bowgun user, and when fighting fatalis.....I'm only allowed to shoot it's chest, even the tenderized head isn't a weak spot, so I ended up using sticky for that fight, he's immune to stun, but at least I could help break his head
Great video, World and Iceborne are in a weird position for me. By the end of Iceborne's run for me, I found myself hating the game far more then when I started it. The clutch claw definitely played a part in it, and one point not brought up is how world's fights have very few openings or specific combos you can read. Monsters are erratic, constantly moving, and rarely have big clear openings for you to exploit. It was a much more reactionary game compared to to the older games or even Rise, and this was a big part of why I hated combat in that game. The clutch claw creating openings felt like it gave the devs more reasons to not make monsters have clear openings, since you can create your own. I often found myself trying to wait out a monster's enraged state because it was impossible to attack without getting punished. This isn't a problem with me reading monsters, I've been playing these games since Tri and have made it to the end game of nearly every game in the series. World's combat just did not gel with me at all, it was too much of a departure from the older, slower style, without proper compromises like what Rise had. If I would have to say what the perfect MH game would be for me, it would be one with combat closer to the older games (in terms of monster tells and positioning being more important than just reaction time and counters), with the in depth world building of Worldborne, and with combat as fun and rewarding with moveset customization like what Rise has.
I haven’t actually played world or iceborne, but I have played rise and sunbreak, and I just wanna point out that while the silkbind attacks are indeed mandatory, unlike the clutch claw, they only add to your punishment opportunities instead of detracting from them. The clutch claw forces you to use it to tenderize the monster when you have the chance, which means your ability to fully punish the monster is contingent on it already being tenderized, on top of having on opening. In rise/sunbreak, the silkbind attacks only give you more options for how to punish the monster when you have the chance. Not to mention the silkbind attacks can also be used strategically to actually create openings and punishment opportunities. The clutch claw technically can too, but it’s a matter of aiming your reticle at the monster and pulling off the wallbang, rather than strategically using unique moves designed specifically for the weapon you’re using.
You didn’t really need tenderize if you have affinity and mind’s eye build. People just screaming because they can’t get maximum result from attack jewel and critical eyes without tenderizing.
Seeing that health bar makes everything make sense to me now, I stopped playing the game after sometime because it was just too much of a grind and why, BECAUSE I HAD NO IDEA THE CLUTCH CLAW WAS SO INTEGRAL!!!! I totally glossed over it and whenever I came to try the game out again I forgot that it even existed 💀
The biggest thing from when I started World to buying Iceborn, was that almost all my weapons would bounce off without tenderizing. You could fight a monster in the base game, have your attacks go through, then buy the DLC and then suddenly tenderizing was an integral mechanic.
Could not agree anymore. This one thing single handily made me quit. The sad part is I didn’t even get to fight glavenus. A monster I’ve been waiting for to come back.
Not sure about other weapons, but I think Clutch Claw + Hammer is seamless. Letting you clutch out of two of held charge attacks really helped with the flow of fights and lets me keep up with faster monsters. If I could've kept the Clutch Claw in place of Wirebugs, I probably would have, even without wallbangs and tenderizing.
The ire against the clutch claw is directed at the tenderizing mechanic. The game is inevitably balanced around it, thus you have to use it as much as possible to deal normal damages instead of when you want it. If Capcom removed the tenderizing effect, brought back the old hitzone values/made the tenderized hitzone values the default while keeping the wallbang and the clutch attacks (which you would use for example against a flying monster, an out of reach part or to punish an otherwise unpunishable attack like Alatreon's floor is ice), all of a sudden, no one would complain anymore about the clutch claw as it would be an additional tool you use on the side of the normal gameplay when you find it convenient rather than a necessary maintenance you need to do regularly. What is annoying is that it would require little work, yet Iceborne director never addressed the issue despite the community hating the tenderizing mechanic from the get-go (the most vocal being the speedrunners). He only did the barest minimum (Shaver jewel? All light weapons should tenderize in one hit period, no costly lv3 decoration needed and 3 minutes is still too short for the tenderized hitzones to last without having to overuse the clutch claw) at the very end, probably at the request of Ryozo since he seemed to be the "my way or the highway" kind of guy.
in that old monster hunter world proto-demo, it featured part of the clutch claw, just the shooting ammo into the head thing. i see that that had plans for using it ever since that demo
I largely agree with this opinion, with an addition. It feels like monster aggression got sped up significantly in IB to make the clutch claw feel necessary to use. The non-stagger attack windows in the base game allowed for a couple hits with good positioning. In IB they felt few and far between, unless you managed to exhaust them, which became null once they got agitated. IB felt like they mandated a cycle of tenderize and wallbang, and then wait until the monster isn't agitated.
People don't realize how intrusive the clagger was in the pace of the game. I don't like how in Rise the monsters are forced to fight each other if they're in the same area but at least the wyvern riding stance it's one time per quest and after SB it's a small (huge) opening where the monster stands still. The clagger triggered WAY more often, it randomly ovverided normal staggers or even worse head staggers and messed up the positioning by pushing the monster away from you. Fighting Kushala in IB feels so different compared to base World now because of that
I measured how long it would take to reposition myself after the clagger animation is activated. It literally takes 2.4 seconds. Stop crying about the pace.
Tenderizing I think is a perfectly fine mechanic implemented poorly. It would have been better as something implemented into each weapon's moveset - either as a new move or additional benefit to existing moves. SnS, DB, and Lance had this done rather well, but it could have worked as a benefit of using less-used moves as well. On GS for example it should have been included as an effect of landing Strong Wide Slash on a monster part. This would allow the mechanic while keeping combat flowing, as well as rewarding proper spacing with a tenderize on the part players are actually hitting. On a related note - the lack of necessity to tenderize is part of why the Fatalis fight is one of the best fights in the series for me. It takes what is (imo) the best base combat in the series and just pits you against the final threat. Yeah the fight has gimmicks, but it still felt really well-crafted to me.
Totaly agree with everything you said. One of the most egregious parts for me was how the monster hitboxes while clutch clawing felt basicaly random, especialy when you compare one monster to another. But what realy did it for me was when I clawed onto a rathalos' wing while he was flying, and he did that swoop down claw attack. Not only did I get knocked off, but I got poisoned. How do you explain that? I guess they changed the canon so that rathalos has poison in his wings now too.
Yeah it's a bit like the Barioth tail example, they really needed to design the game around something like this from the start to avoid issues like that.
Ngl I really live the clutch claw and I’ve grown used to it with LS and CB but it does fuck you up a lot sometimes, it’s was prob mostly tested in multiplayer instead specially bc they added the SOS and prob had that in mind. But I’ve talked with people from like the gathering hub discord and they said that they wanted NEITHER the clutch claw or the wirebug and a few people probably hated the wire bug more than the clutch claw for some reason I think? Idk I prob interpreted that wrong? Who knows, I mean the tenderizing thing being a MUST have is literally annoying asf to the point that when I go to make a build and show it off people literally ask “WHERES AGITATOR, TENDERIZER AND CRITICAL BOOST?” LIKE BRO WTF I understand agitator bc it’s literally free dmg after using your clutch claw and making the monster enraged specially if you back down into low or high rank
I think it's a bit much to say that it "ruins" the game while every criticism can be summed up to a skill issue for the most part. I personally haven't had any issues beating monsters quickly and a lot of times i forget the clutch claw even exists. The pause that monsters do to me is no different then when they are tired in the middle of the fight as well.🤷🏾♂️🤷🏾♂️I don't see it as a big deal tbh
The Clutch Claw was introduced to solve a problem that didn't exist. And it resulted in an unbalanced mess. It was one of the reasons why I dropped the game when I did. Before I go on a tangent though, I wanna elaborate. I was a hardcore aerial IG main in World and Iceborne and never felt comfortable using the Crutch Claw. I think there were combos that led you crutch onto Monsters from the air, but I really disliked the whole "You have to use it to tenderize for better Hit Zone Values, nvm Weakness Exploit" part of it. So I did not use it at all. Which was actually p fine until the last two fights. After them I dropped Iceborne for the first time. Came back a bit later, but it didn't last long either.
The whole premise of this video is based on you not enjoying the use of the slinger/clutch claw. The fix for you would be to lower health of the monsters so it wouldn't feel like the mechanic is required. That might be great for you, but you're just throwing a middle finger to anyone who enjoys using it. I for one like that it's not mindlessly easy to use. I like having to find an opening. I like that it's punishing to not use all the tools I have available. I like the look of the animations. I like that there are two mantles can be used to make it easier if I want. Base world was too easy, I agree. And thank you, Iceborne, for forcing me to actually think about my build and lean forward in my chair during a fight. Iceborne isn't just a story DLC. It's an entire end-game on top of World's end-game. It should be difficult, and it should absolutely expect you to do more than pack Mega Potions and bonk a monster on the head for 5 minutes.
Clutch claw wasn't the best but it was a improvement, it allowed for players to stay on the hunt by riding on the monster so they can follow, the slinger unload allows players who don't get much exhaust the ability to Stun, and it generally improves the combat with heavy hitting clutch claw attacks, some people don't use it because it wasn't necessary for a good hunt, it could expand a player's playstyle, that's why I think It was a good edition
the biggest issue i have with it is how inconsistent it is and how little is actually explained of what's going on. Why do i get thrown off 7 times in a row while the monster is just standing there but can ride on for the entirety of a rathalos death lotus midair. why can my friend just clutch onto it without any problem for the entire fight. why do light weapons have to clutch it twice to tenderize it or otherwise slot in a high level decoration just to get the basic functionality of the forced mechanic. why is insect glaive reliant on landing a clutch to perform in the most basic of combat scenarios due to their reliance on monster dropped slinger ammo. sometimes the monster glides along the wall from a clagger, sometimes it hits nothing. When you're fighting safi'jiva, you're actively told that you need to clagger the monster at specific times by voice cues from the extras, yet trying to do it when they say just causes you to get arbitrarily knocked off 7 more times. why does completing a tenderize both animation lock you and drop you off directly in front of the monster/ on top of one of its attacks. like it feels like its 100% designed just to be BS from the start.
Yeah, the clutch claw, and the way the game feels bent around it, really takes away from the fun of the hunt. In a big way. I'd agree that the feeling of world, before iceborne, was peak mh.
I will say I agree a lot with what was said as a clutch claw denier myself, but I'd also go onto say that having a little interaction between the monster and the clutch claw (like the fatalis standing up and then crawling after a flinch shot) went a long way for me and made me almost think of the clutch claw as an actually well valid and well intetactive mechanic. Almost.
The thing is, you don’t have to use the clutch claw. When people say you are forced to use it or they are being disingenuous because let’s be real, most hunters don’t even use powders, seeds, or traps to increase their damage. Those are all different ways to increase damage output and you don’t have to use them and they aren’t forced, so why is clutch claw different and you have to use it? I see clutch claw as anything else in the game, a tool that I can choose to use that make hunts easier.
@@chi7818 it's a high damage tool. I personally also denied the cape things. I forgot the name as I havent played in years. Evasion heavy invincibility fire resistance etc. I will admit the only one I did use was the fire resistance because Lunastra was an annoying b and it saver me from using fire resistant slots for more damage stones.
@@SemekiIzuio yeah I agree, but just because it’s a high damage tool doesn’t mean it’s mandatory. That’s what I don’t get, why is this one high damage tool mandatory but so many others aren’t? That’s like saying you have to use bow or hbg or LS because their damage is so much higher than let’s say lance. No one says traps are mandatory but the amount of damage you can pump out in a single trap is ridiculous. No one says mega demondrugs, demon powders, and might seeds are mandatory even though they give a lot of attack. That’s all I’m saying, they are being disingenuous and overreacting by saying clutch claw ruins the game because you have to tenderize for damage because they don’t even try to optimize damage in other ways.
@@chi7818 because they put half of Weakness Exploit into the clutch claw. They nerfed WE from its 30% iirc the percentage, cut it to 10% and put the 20% on tendering. On top of that they buffer up monsters HP in Iceborne because the game wants you, forces you to use tenderize unless suffer the consequences of weak damage/long kill time. You can make up the damage by using other crap like str, power surge, and other strong slot gems. But they literally took away a healthy damage mechanic and put it somewhere else splitting the damage. That's what a Nerf is except it wasnt broken.
@@SemekiIzuio considering might seed is 5% attack for 3 minutes, mega demon drug is 3.3% attack until you cart, and demon powder is 5% attack for 3 minutes, you are missing out on 13.3% attack by not using these items. Why isn’t this necessary but 20% crit is? Let’s also not forget they made crit eye 7 give 10% more crit, and agitator secret gave 10% more crit meaning you could make up for the missing 20% by not tenderizing. Don’t get me wrong, clutch claw is a powerful tool but like you said, it’s a tool, it’s not mandatory.
I've played world casually for over 80 hours and didn't use the claw much, just when I remembered I had it and i never felt like it had a detriment to the game but I keep hearing people complain about it so I am interested to see exactly why. Will edit once I've watched the video to give my opinions Edit: having now watched the video, a couple things leap out at me. The largest impact of the clutch claw on the game is the clagger, as it breaks normal gameplay, and I think while it could have worked it they didn't move so far away, it is definitely a detriment. Your other points however, I'm not so sure about. Playing through iceborne hunts took a while but I fully expected that because it's master rank and it's always harder, but until I learned they were supposed to take an extra long time in this video, I never noticed it, and it did not break my immersion at all. I also didn't notice the reduced hotzone damage either, and the cool moves and other things iceborne added far overshadowed the only thing I didn't like which was the clagger. This may be due to the fact that I play gunlance, which is a pretty slow play style so that could have contributed to not noticing the longer fight times. In conclusion: for someone playing casually or with friends not focused on optimizing the endgame(alatreon, fatalis) I don't think clutch claw is as jarring as people make it out to be even a good way into master rank. Context on me as a player(gunlance main, 800 hours across 3u, 4u, gu, world, and rise. Imo best game is 4u, world, gu, rise, 3u in that order)
Played Worlds across PS4 and PC with a combined 1400 hours. Clutch claw is 100% forced in Master/G rank and let me tell you, it's not fun at all trying to find the only window in a middle of a fight that breaks the fight cycle. Ie) you dodge and weave through attacks of a Zinogre and hit him once on an off hit and then he staggers mid combo and it goes from a game of fighting optimally to "oh I need to clutch claw now". And then if you fight Alatreon and Fatalis without tenderizing their heads, GOOD LUCK winning that fight is all I have to aay
@@leekyonion LOL, Alatreon and Fatalis are the monsters where tenderizing is literally, FACTUALLY the LEAST useful, especially their heads. Alatreon's head is an 85 hitzone. The tenderize multiplier formula is to times by 0.75, then add 25 and take off the decimal. That means the higher the hitzone the less useful tenderizing actually is. For Alatreon's 85 hitzone head, that goes up to 88, a difference of 3. Hardly anything at all. Fatalis' head is a hitzone of 75. Oh, not as high as Alatreon's, so it's more useful right? WRONG, Fatalis is special in that a negative 5 "bonus" is applied after the tenderizing formula on tenderized parts. That means that tenderizing his head literally only improves the hitzone by ONE. He also doesn't need a tenderized head in order to get a partbreak bonus on wallbangs, meaning tenderizing the head is practically worthless for Melee weapons. Saying tenderizing is required for Ala and Fatty is one of the most ignorant statements ever, the bonus you get from it is extremely tiny on them specifically. They honestly punish you more if you DO use the claw because they each have multiple moves that pin or just straight up kill you if you are clutched on, even with a mantle. It's almost like people hear that tenderizing is required and just immediately believe it without doing any research or even trying it out themselves.
I've also spoken about this with some other very long time game veterans, and also broached the subject of why they don't like Rise. It is for basically the same reason that the clutch claw "ruins" Iceborne. Fundamentally, both the clutch claw and wirebugs are extremely powerful general mechanics available to all hunters which necessarily shape the game around them. At first they trivialize it because the devs themselves don't know how strong the mechanics actually are, and monsters aren't designed to really interact with them. Clutch claws made monsters in Iceborne extremely squishy and easy to permastun, wirebugs made hunters in rise functionally immortal. Naturally, this made the games "easymode" at first. But then the devs update the game. They change the monsters to take these mechanics in account, in essence assuming that the hunters can and will make full use of them. This results in anyone who wasn't using the mechanics for legacy reasons- IE they are game veterans with years of hardlocked habits and biases; and are allergic to change; and hate the idea of having to add a new tool to their kit and develop new skills or use weapons in new ways- which is fine. If they have a specific style of play they like they're fine to enjoy playing it. The issue is that when the devs inevitably make the shift in the monster designs to balance the game and make it genuinely challenging, these players get left behind extremely hard and are put into a position where they feel they have no *choice* but to use the mechanic they don't like; and thus come to hate the entire game as a whole. In other words, it goes from a matter of simply not being optimal to one of deciding between strugglebussing through the remainder of the game or hating playing it because its not what they're used to. It happened in Iceborne when they began releasing post-game monsters that had specific anti-clutch mechanics (or mechanics which outright required clutch), such as Rajang, Alatreon, AT Velk, Fatalis, Safi, Raging Brachy. It happened in Rise when they release sunbreak, and the entire second half of the game's monster cast was designed with wirebug mobility in mind (although they technically were in basegame as well, its very clear the devs really did not know the strength of the wirebug- as the game did not become difficult in any meaningful way until the event quest for the super high difficulty Crimson Glow Valstrax), including the fact that one of the game's fundamental defensive mechanics (having i-frames when on the ground) was dramatically nerfed to make up for wirebug recovery- which itself was now punished by several monsters that had moves specifically designed to counter it unless you time it perfectly (essentially the same as getup s, but just different in nature and thus something that needs to be "relearned" for veteran players not used to being bad at the game and new players who struggle with things like frame perfect timings to begin with). Some players also have severe hatreds for "easy" weapons like Bowguns- and despised wirebugs *specifically* because it gave bowguns mobility that they "shouldn't" have (although to be fair it did NOT come at the cost of their damage potential like it should have, and as a result HBGs in Rise are kind of laughably OP since they literally "have it all").
As an addon, I generally agree with the video's conclusions. The clutch claw was a half-assed addition to an already well designed game that put both the devs and the players in a tough spot, and ended up leaving sore feelings with many. The wirebug was a part of Rise from day 1, and although it wasn't really "balanced" well until Sunbreak- that is leagues better than the Clutch Claw which wasn't balanced until the last *7* monsters in the entire game. To me, the existence of the wirebug is no different than the existence of Mega Potions, or Max Potions, or Demondrugs, or Armortalon/Powertalon, the moveset of every single weapon. It's just another mechanic to add to the list of mechanics to learn. But for veterans players who fundamentally want little more than a modern graphical reboot of their favorite monster hunter game, it's an alien oddity that distinctly separates the game from what they view as the "True" monster hunter experience.
Honestly, 4U has the best combat. Especially for GS. GS is kinda brain dead now, it used to be about openings and timing. Now it’s hurrdurr tackle through something and throw a true charged in a situation I shouldn’t be able too but can get it off anyway
I know this is an old video, but I am a new player who just got through all of base world with 2 other friends and while the cc felt fine through most of it, as soon as I got to iceborne, I noticed the MESS of design that is the fact that you are supposed to tenderize before being able to do pretty much any damage while also making all the new mobs super fast and reducing all forms of cc you'd use in the base game. It felt like the entire game was made insuferably frustrating and more boring just to force me to use a tool that I already had a mentality of "I need to learn this tool jsut ot have it, even though I don't have to" before. What a mess of a decision, and having 99% of comments online be copium sniffing "no, the game is perfect you're just bad, git gud" stuff is nothing but toxic. The cc didn't ruin iceborn for me, although the combination of forced tenderization, faster monsters, insane healthpools and frustratingly un-stoppable mobs that constantly cc you back almost made me quit the franchise forever. Had I not had the cool head to realize that this might just be one wall and I need to push through and the entire game/franchise may not be like this, I'd prlly left MH forever at barioth. Cue all the answers to this comment being like "no, you're just bad, git gud"
@@drxavier1870 World is also my first MH game and the moment I set foot in iceborne i said "this feels extremely poor, design wise". Had pretty pleasant experience in base world while iceborne felt so bad, still does. The large increase in HP, mandatory tenderizing, having to wallbang to get the damage in, the fact monsters are so fast that if you play slow weapon (I play CB) you have to wait for an opening which at times takes extremely long (which ties into poor design of massive HP and mandatory tenderizing) unless you create that opening with wallbang or do a 1 attack punish (at most 2) after you learn the moveset of the enemy. Now, learning moveset on your first attempt is not gonna happen, which is normal, so you aren't getting a lot of punishes, and the ones you do get result in very minimal damage overall (taking the entire HP into account, monster speed and their ability to stun you frequently since you don't know their moveset on your first attempt, and even few attempts after that). The amount of times I've said "Can I play the game please?" while going through iceborne is absurd. I don't think I've said that so many times in my 25 years of gaming, that's how poorly designed iceborne is in my opinion. As the good person above said, many might come and say "git gud" but that's just a phrase everyone throws nowadays. Played harder games than this, nothing wrong with not being good as a new player in the game, problem is when not being good in the game as a new player is tied to game being unfair with poor design (stunned into cart because on the same move that killed you, monster attacked after 2 seconds the first time, but second time it attacked after 4, since you decided to wait the full duration of getting up) and not your skill. The problem isn't getting gud, you get good by playing more and learning, problem is if gameplay itself isn't good/doesn't feel good, which is how iceborne feels. Apparently, to capcom, increasing the difficulty means this: Make monster extremely fast, give it large HP and make it attack non stop for 1-2 minutes. Again, you will find openings in those monsters after you have learned their moveset, but it's not a good design if only openings you find that aren't 1 attack punish for 50-100 damage on a 20k or more HP come after you have fought them enough to learn entire moveset. That's just poor design. They just made everything so fast/aggressive/relentless/tanky just because they screwed up and introduced new mechanics game didn't need in the first place (clutch claw/tenderizing). You can make the game harder without resorting to cheap and bad mechanics. So I am forced to wallbang a monster for big opening to do damage. Okay. I wallbang a monster, get my big damage in. Capcom's answer to this as a "balance" counterplay? Monster is now enraged for 45-60 seconds, where it's faster and more aggressive. That to me is the most lazy and uninspired design ever. Forcing me to use something that shouldn't have been in the game and I find not fun and good to use just because they didn't know how to make the game difficult in a proper way so they resorted to most bland option, make them extremely fast and tanky. Majority of iceborne monsters don't feel good to fight. They are just sponges that move at lightning speed and force you to use bad and unfun mechanics they added for god knows which reason. Anyway, base world was okay for the most part, iceborne is just a boring pushover with nothing really interesting in it.
@@BleedingMem0ry ok i disagree on the fight part theres some really fun monsters in World but yeah Clutch Claw is stupid because its forced but also meta. Agitator LvL is bassically manditory because the Monster is always enraged or on the floor. Im glad you see the issues though, most people just say Skill Issue or treat Iceborne like its the second coming of Jesus and perfection
@@drxavier1870 Yeah, there were a few fun fights. Problem is if there are 200 monsters in the game but only 5 of them are fun and the remaining 195 are dull, boring and annoying because they are practically the same, and the only difference between them is their size. Nothing is flawless in this world, if people treat this expansion as flawless they actually need to play more games instead of only playing this one. This is among most flawed games ever made, so I find it funny really that people call it flawless, I guess they don't know better and never played a game with really good design choices. Yeah, going in without agitator is just losing damage because of reasons you mentioned, absolutely correct. It's forced on the player, much like the poor design choice that is the clutch claw. Nice to see someone understands things and can point out the horrible decisions capcom made with iceborne.
Oh man, I am so sorry about the hate brigade that’s come your way. Had no idea it was going to be THIS bad. So much for react streamers benefitting the OG creator, eh? I wouldn’t blame you if you just went full recluse for like a month
I never really thought nothing of the clutch claw in general. It was a mechanic that was added and it was up to you if you wanted to use it. Thats how I saw it and still feel like to this day. Now if you do want to say something that felt forced upon the player just go to rise. Depending on some weapons, about 20-30 percent of the weapons kit is attached to silkbug moves. Its kinda what truned me off to the game personally. Im probably one of the few who have that viewpoint of the wirebug mechanic, but oh well. Good video as always.
Three times I've played through Iceborne and three times I never bothered with tenderizing (maybe I should on a few monsters with harder to reach weak zones, but frankly, the vast majority of monsters have weak zones which are perfectly accessible). I only consistently use clutch claw for wall bangs and on that I agree it's annoying to sometimes grab a monster's forelimb instead of the head (the chances of which can be reduced drastically by simply aiming and timing your grab better), but that's hardly anything which "ruins" such a good game. And without tenderizing, you can still defeat the Iceborne monsters in a reasonable amount of time (around 15 minutes for most, sometimes 20+ for elders and such, but almost never more than 25). I have to say, I think it's weird to be praising wirebugs as being so well balanced and integrated (at least, I definitely think your in the minority opinion on that one) when they only made Rise more easy and sloppy thanks to wirefall (sloppy because you don't have to play as solid; you can get hit, wirefall, chug, go back in). To try and compensate for all of the crazy movement options hunters have with the wirebug, Sunbreak gave many of the upper tier monsters new hard tracking attacks which are kind of cheap and sometimes odd looking. Sunbreak also raised the damage done by monsters as all G Ranks do, but unless a monster can one shot you, wirefall is still a get out of jail free card for the most part. Those aforementioned tracking attacks and new counters for various weapons also encourage you to use a parry-based playstyle in order to kill monsters faster thanks to fewer natural openings. There is also the palamutes and how they again change combat to make things easier (free fast movement with no stamina worries, easy sharpening, etc.). There are issues with Rise/Sunbreak (and I like Sunbreak, but I think Iceborne is the better top to bottom package for sure, and going back to play through all of World/Iceborne again while still playing through Sunbreak confirmed that without a shadow of a doubt) that many others have with it which you overlooked while concluding that you think Sunbreak is objectively the overall better game. When it comes to my MonHun background, I started with 3U and have G-Rank soloed that game, 4U, GU, Iceborne, and now Sunbreak. I'm glad I started with 3U because (small rant incoming) 4U superfans are the worst (and I mean no disrespect to anyone whose favorite is 4U but isn't a snob about the other games) with the way they hold up that game as near perfect (and I like 4U, but it has its own love or hate quirks just the same as any other Monster Hunter) but tend to nitpick every other game in the series as falling short because of one mechanic or unbalanced element that supposedly ruins the game by comparison. At least FU superfans don't deny the bad hitboxes in that one even if they feel like it's the only true hardcore Monster Hunter game. And fans brought in by World who don't like the older games are the most looked down upon by many MonHun vets anyhow (sometimes unfairly, since only the ones who dismiss the older games outright because of lesser graphics, loading zones, or not having the same QoL improvements deserve our scorn; and the vets who happen to love Rise but assume that anyone who has issues with it is a clueless World noob, well, you guys are deluding yourselves). None of the games are free of controversial or somewhat broken elements. None of them. And in a way, that's what gives each of them their own unique identity.
commenting to boost this because I couldn't agree more with it. I really only tenderized people like fatalis, alatreon and safi'jiva. The other times I was tenderizing I was just gap closing
So as a solo casual player, I can play most of the main content in Iceborne without clutch claw without feeling like I'm playing the game wrongly? Just asking as a new player because all of this is really confusing and making me not want to play Iceborne and just stick to the base game.
@@Qladstone no , clutch claw is pretty much needed for all iceborne hunts. Compared to base world the monsters hp is quadrupled with higher armor to counteract the clutch slamming and tenderizing.
@@Qladstone so ridiculous that videos like this turn new players away from an amazing expansion in Iceborne. It's a thing that, unless you're used to it not being in the game, is easily integrated into your play style. Not to mention it is an absolutely miniscule negative (if you consider it a negative) compared to the pros of how good Iceborne is in every other aspect. @HeavyWings making a mountain out of a molehill for content and "hardcore" player pandering.
@@Qladstone if you are new to mh game, no need to care about those cryings from mh community, do what you want. You can see it by your own eyes even with those "cc is this and is that", it doesn't change the fact that MHW:I is one of the best mh games and yes it is better than Rise in every aspects. No one is gonna judge how you play the game, just enjoy your hunt!
I want to comment on the wirebug chapter, but first I'll say I play Iceborne with the ICE mod, and it solves the clutch claw/clagger issues. Onto wirebugs: I agree with everything you said, HOWEVER, I don't think the wirebug is comparable to the clutch claw. The clutch claw is a massive inconvenience on top of solid MH gameplay (restored by the ICE mod). On the other hand, the wirebug is the feature that Sunbreak is designed around. Like you said, you either like it or you realize Sunbreak may not be for you, but you cannot even try to ignore the feature. Why would you want to ignore wirebugs? I think they very negatively the flow of combat. Forget about positioning, just stand still and counter, every weapon can. What attack should you prioritize at this point in the fight? Almost always wirebug. Do you play charge blade? Then forget about any attack other than SAED. I'm not exaggerating, just counter to max phials and let it rip over, and over, and over. Don't even worry about getting hit. In fact, if you watch some speedruns, it's actually optimal to SAED, get hit, wirebug recover, counter, SAED. This is related to the other huge issue: monsters. I won't get into this since it's a whole other topic, but, for charge blade specifically, many monsters move so fast that when you commit to an SAED you are agreeing to get hit. The solution to fast monsters is also wirebug related: the pizza cutter. Some people like it, but I find it very boring. Stand still, bzzzzz, wirebug shield, bzzzzz, repeat. In both playstyles, charge blade boils down to standing still and spamming wirebug skills. Notice that I never mentioned sword mode or guard points.
10:40 Iceborne director: "Let's introduce the tenderizing mechanic". Developer #1: "But the monsters will get obliterated. It will break the game". Iceborne director: "Then, let's triple the health of the monsters, lower their hitzones and nerf WEX". Developer #2: "But then, the players are kind of compelled to tenderize all the time. Maybe we should test it to see if it is bearable. Maybe it would be simpler to just keep the wallbangs and the clutch attacks on monsters without complicating the gameplay with this tenderizing business". Iceborne director: "No need, I can't be wrong. And you know what? It gave me an idea. The Safi'jiiva siege will be centered around tenterizing and Safi'jiiva will even be able to untenderize!". Fanbase hating the tenderizing mechanic, asking for it to be scrapped and the game rebalanced for a whole year. Iceborne director: "No, I am right and you are wrong. I will throw you a bone and double the tenderizing time and give Shaver Jewel (not lv1 or lv2, but lv3) for light weapons, but that's all". Iceborne director leaves Capcom to the surprise of no one.
@@wits_end. And that's not his only bad idea, just his worst. He put a 0.7 multiplier to the elemental damages of IG and Lance as, in his mind, they were too OP. Meaning against monsters with bad hitzones and great elmzones such as Stygian Zinogre or Ebony Odogaron, these weapons are screwed compared to the others except GS. He nerfed AED and SEAD, meaning it is not uncommon for the monsters to not stagge (especially if you didn't tenderize!) and to punish you as a result right after. He nerfed Maximum Might in a way the skill is absolutely useless instead of simply decreasing the value. He also introduced crowns for endemic lifes (fortunately there is no achievement tied to them). MHWI is my favorite MH along with MH4U thanks of everything else: maps, monsters, investigation system, events, I much prefer the Guiding Lands as an endgame to the Guild Quests of MH4U or the Anomaly Quests of Sunbreak. But Iceborne director made sure it would never be a perfect MH. I am glad he is no longer part of the MH team so he doesn't get to tarnish MH6 gameplay as well, although I fear something even worse may happen with this game coughcoughmicrotransactionscough.
I just recently starting going back to Worldborn, but you don't have to sheath to use the clutch claw. Why did Heavy always say you have to sheath? Did I miss something?
@@pascal2666 All weapons can use slinger and claw while unsheathed. However, Insect Glaive, Lance, and the ranged weapons need to click in the right circle pad (on Console) to swap between normal aim mode (or in the case of lance, claw counter mode) to slinger/claw aim mode.
@@Andrew-hz5zc yea that is what I remember. I played enough Worldborn that I can't tell what actions to press, I just do it without thinking :( but I felt like sheathing is something I rarely do before clawing. Anyhow, playing some hours Worldborn and then Risebreak gave me some conclusions Heavy was pointing out. Even though I like the claw combat wise, I don't like it being mandatory to progress in a decent pace. In contrast, I started learning Lance today in Risebreak and immediately liked the switchskills and their integration. A difference in feel like day and night.
Even as a Lance main (at least in world/Iceborn/Subreak) with one of the better iterations of the clunkclaw... i feeld often interupted in my gameplay, because i had to tenderice a part and/or wallbang the monster to keep my damage up. Playng with out doubles or (sometimes) tripples my clear times. so it is realy invasiv and mandatory for that. In MHGU for me the gimmicks are also mandatory and invasiv in the gameplay, a specialy with the evade options you have (Valor stance, Adept style, absolut readynes/evasion) ... but you can at least pick your poison and mix and match your favorit Style wit some Hunter Arts to fit your own playstyle. My opinion is that Rise did this at best. With out some special pinattacks, and secret locations to get a lore item... there is not much that demands you to use Wirebugs and i know a lot people that play the majority of the game ignoring wirebugs and silkbindes and doing just well with that. i can not say the same thing about the clutchclaw. :/
Ya some tenderize attacks are slow and suck for tenderizing but clutch claw honestly made the game more fun in my opinion because who doesnt wanna grapple on to a monster and beat its hide or smash it into a wall. I like new additions like the clutch claw because its a new way to play and keeps the series interesting
I wouldn't say the Clutch Claw itself ruined Iceborne so much as the whole "Wanting players to use your new gimmick to the point fights are designed to try and punish people who don't" did. I mean, remember, when Capcom got tired of people NOT using multiplayer in base World (due to a combination of how poorly handled the multiplayer scaling was for the monsters as well as a lot of people being carried and thus sucking at a point where they really should know how to play the game at least competently), they began introducing monsters that were designed around being "impossible to beat alone".
The slinger (provided that you use dragon, bomb, or piercing pods) can stop wyverns that are flying from flying. It works very good if you hit them in the head, but each time you hit you'll need to wait for them to get through a stun animation before hitting them with the next pod. Claggering is very annoying, but aren't the only time you can stun monsters for attacks. If you claw onto their head, then perform a claw attack onto their head, it'll stagger them long enough to perform an attack.
I got MHW in April ‘19 and put 300+ hours into it before Iceborne was released that September. I have only 45 hours in Iceborne, and it’s not because the game had played out. It’s because the clutch claw. It was a horrible idea implemented horribly. Great video btw! Watched your Long Sword is OP video earlier today and now this. Subbed.
I really like the 'claw, I just think its fun. World was my first MonHun game and I fell in love with riding the monsters and bringing them to the ground for the team. When the Claw was released it just felt like they made a combat update just for me. Riding was my favorite part of the game, but it felt clunky and random, and completely threw off the pace of a fight as the Mon ran around the arena trying to shake you off. Claw feels like a response to that, giving a clear ruleset for when it can be used and when to expect it, and just overall speeding up the process of acquainting the monster with the dirt. I agree with you that its importance in iceborn is overcentralized, and that it can be buggy. However I also think it overall adds a enjoyable new moveset into the game that I find really fun. Here are just some of my favorites: On SnS you can because a absolute menace, cycling between wallbangs when not enraged and shock/pitfall traps when enraged to keep the monster almost completely out of the game, all while easily setting up sunder points for your team or yourself because of the easy access to the mantles. HBG has such a long sunder animation that you can use it to ride a monster between area's, setting up the sunder point for the next fight. One of my friends has a HBG build that specifically monopolizes on the claw and mantles by building into increasing that free damage as much as possible. I also love lance, but I don't feel I need to explain that one. Are these the best builds for these weapons? No, but to me they are a lot of fun and wouldn't be possible without the claw.
How did sunbreak make riding optional? Did i miss something? im playing and still get annoyed big time everytime i have to stop my combat (or waste my weapon buffs for that matter) just so i have to do a lenghty 3-wall-bang ride
Previously if you didn't want to ride, you would have to not attack the monster for like 7 seconds, massive pace breaker. They added a setting that makes it so attacking doesn't trigger the ride, so you can keep wacking on the monster and they'll return to normal. You can also set Followers to ride for you if you don't want to.
I'm playing MH since the PS2. And even though I liked World and played it a whole lot, as soon as I saw Iceborne and it's mandatory gimmick, I stopped, didn't even buy Iceborne and returned to 4U and GenU. Now I'm playing through Iceborne for the first time and I still hate the clutch claw. Such a stupid implementation.
Monster Hunter suffers from a problem where it's a series that wants to be incredibly creative, change itself in new ways in new iterations, and increase player interaction in its fights. While it wants to do this, there is a vocal minority of the playerbase that just wants to play the same game it fell in love with at [insert previous title that is favorite here.] So anything that changes the gameplay flow or does anything to disrupt that desired outcome is the worst thing in the world that ruins a game. If it sounds incredibly dramatic, it's because it is. I don't have an issue with someone disliking something. I don't have an issue with someone expressing their own opinions in a way that doesn't attempt to pass them off as hard facts. But we all have to admit it's pretty ridiculous when someone claims the most sold and most well reviewed expansion of the most sold and well reviewed base game in the ENTIRE series is RUINED because of a mechanic he doesn't like, primarily because it makes him not able to fight monsters like how he could before. To put this into perspective, I don't have a favorable opinion of the new God of War. I regret spending 70 dollars on it, and if there is a third entry in the rebooted franchise I will be avoiding it until it hits the bargain bin, if not entirely. That said, I would never make a video or headline claiming Santa Monica "ruined" God of War. I would never declare that the gripes with the game I know are personal to me "ruined" the fastest selling Sony first party title and a game millions of people are currently enjoying and having an amazing time with. Coming back to Monster Hunter, the series moving to PC creates a middle ground situation where everyone can win, at least everyone that plays the game on PC. Capcom can continue innovating, increasing player interaction in fights, (charging for things that should have been added to event quests,) and increasing the exposure, and user base of the franchise. Meanwhile, people upset with those changes can use mods to revert the game mechanically back to whichever Monster Hunter title they believe the series shouldn't have moved on from. This will be extremely important for whatever the next iteration in the series is, as I have no doubt some members of the vocal minority will find some change that has utterly ruined, decimated, and annihilated the playability of the game.
I dont disagree with alot of the points you raised about the clutch claw and its implementation especially in comparison to SunRise but as some who played exclusively solo before world I was more used to the exagerated health pools and thus I find your conclusion a bit hyperbolic and thought of it more like you consider the slinger in the world section, it just felt optional to me. The large health pool just adds to the challenge in my opinion but ill grant that my experience with it as an insect glaive main meant I was more easily able to intergrate tenderising and wall banging into my flow of attacks then say long sword users, which was the most popular weapon at the time. For players like yourself I can only express sympathy that it did ruin your experience with Iceborne but I found the expansion very enjoyable although I did find the availability of wall bangs quite tiresome especially by the endgame after seeing it and doing it hundreds of times and theyre much better implemented in sunbreak with the marionette spiders.
I've listened to a lot of people complain about clutch claw, and while I understand why people don't like it - I seem to like it almost always for the reason people dislike it. I love the feeling of getting a wallbang or a tenderize off while the monster is up and doing an attack that leaves that part open, but you really can get away with doing it during exhausts and downs. It seems like I'm in the minority for it, but I enjoy having the clutch claw far more than base World. And for the last bit of the video, I disagree with your discouragement on devs adding drastic changes. I think that once they have a solid base-combat it's great for them to experiment with some big changes and additions. It lets them know what to do in future installments/updates and allows each game to feel at least a good bit different from the last. And I'd really just rather have weird/bad mechanics than something completely run-of-the-mill.
I do really agree with the point you and a lot of others have made: that it needs to be more involved with a wider spectrum of the weapons. Part of why I like the claw so much is probably because the weapons I've played the most use it alongside DB and HH getting some level of innate Mind's Eye.
As a casual player who enjoys a good challenge, I personally really enjoyed the clutch claw and the difficulty spike of master rank. I started playing the game only recently and didn’t experience the game without the clutch claw, so maybe a big part of my love for it is not knowing what the game would be like without it. Regardless I think saying it ruined the game is a stretch, especially since the length of hunts in iceborne felt refreshing since only in early low rank did I ever feel like hunts were long enough.
I played base world on ps4 on release only to now try iceborne. I'm very mixed on it and clutch claw is one of the reasons why. It felt very clunky to use, it was also like chores for your weapon. It really kills the pace of a fight with the only fun thing about it being the wall banging imo. Base World is honestly one of my favorite games of all time and tbh I could do without the expansion.
I was expecting a video of someone crying about a game mechanic but I was incredibly surprised to watch a well written, well spoken and well thought out video. You absolutely in depth analyzed every aspect of the clutch claw and focused on all parts of it at a pretty quick pace but slow enough to keep me watching and 22 mins went by in a flash. Having said that I disagree. You are 100% correct and made very valid points. The clutch claw seems if you ask me that the devs implemented it very poorly. Great idea but as you stated inconsistent the way the monsters moved. With the swelling HP pools it's absolutely necessary. However as a MH veteran for years who has played since the first game I appreciate how much better combat has gotten. I loved the clutch claw. I recognize its flaws and you aren't wrong with your criticisms. I just personally enjoyed the versatility it brought to World and the MH series. Combat felt faster and more dynamic with it. I guess I just got used to it so fast it became second nature. It seems as if you just personally didn't like it because of how much you enjoyed other MH games. I however was the opposite while I loved the older games as well I always have wanted the series to evolve more beyond the slow clunky combat. So yes excellent video but I don't think it ruined MHW or Iceborne. That's just my opinion though.
Most of the complaints I see are about the tenderizing aspect, but my problem was always the wall bang. I could never get it to work right, and it felt like such a silly way to damage a monster anyway.
Yeah some walls don't actually count as walls and the monster slides off. It's one of those things that happens infrequently but enough to be really annoying, and it still happens in Rise too.
I always thought wall bangs felt better than the mounting mechanic. Quicker and requires paying attention to your surroundings and some careful planning. It was a little wonky at times, but if they didn't have tenderizing I bet they could make wall bangs feel more consistent.
The alatreon fight sucks, I and my friends would miss almost every wall bang, may be a skill issue but it's still frustrating seeing him running into the wall for 5 seconds and doesn't count it as wallbang
bro accepted it lmao ye i also didnt like it at first but after i got the hang of it its super fun im not sure how good u are at clutch clawing but it gets pretty fun when u understand it fully@@sylnz97
Having played world and ice born several times, i never felt the clutch claw was forced upon me, and i rarely used it in iceborn, despite this my hunt times barely increased, and i thknk the reason for that is because by the time you get to the expantoon of the game, you are good enough at whatever weapon you are using that the health increace dosent matter, as well as this, i never really noticed this 'clagger' effect, and when it did happen i never really thought it was too jarring or disruptive, if anything i was glad the monster was taking a break from jumping around all the time, and the wall bang always felt so cool when you could get it off, giving a great oppertuniry to whale on the monsyer while it was down, to conclude i doont think the clutch claw was a bad addition at all, and much like the slinger, it caan be mostly ignored if you dont like it, but gives a nice buff if you do
You gain way to much from using it more damage easier part breaks more monster down time Btw they nerfed so many hitzones on monsters in icebourne even further making ppl relay o. The clutch claw
They can remove the silk bind attacks, idc about that, but please do not take away my wirebugs in general. The movement in Rise is the most fun I've ever had in MH. If we can get a combo between scout flies and wirebugs, it'd be awesome.
When i saw the title of this video i immediately thought that author is delusional, but after watching it i've completely changed my opinion and almost fully agree with the author.
One mention about the "imbalance" between slow and fast weapons when tenderising? Fast weapons need to clutch and tenderise the same spot twice before the damage gets applied, which means more setup if you want to do the wall ram, whereas heavy weapons can do the ram in two clutches. However the light weapons are guaranteed to drop a slinger ammo when tenderising, so they result in more resources.
I agree with you in regards to the clutch club being a poorly implemented mechanic. I did find it interesting though that you called rise a more difficult game than world as I find rise to be much easier, although I can't really say why
For me, it's how the combat in Rise is structured, and there's several layers as to why. Wyvern riding is far more broken and crazy than mounting ever was at just a base level. Just straight up nothing I like about it apart from "oo monster shinies". You can output thousands of damage to a monster with proper wyvern riding. Even with Rise's inflated monster healthpools (to compensate for power creep) you get some amazing damage on a monster, a basically guaranteed KO/down and in multi-monster hunters you essentially can cut down both your targets HP by a 1/3 just by riding and attacking them with each other. Then you look at the weapon movesets. Rise weapons all have counters or "oh fuck get me out" buttons, or just straight up moveset-enhancements (Counter Morph Slash for Charge Blade straight up gives you a GP at the start of the axe-sword move so it straight up removes one of the weapons weakpoints). HBG for god sakes as a ranged weapon now has a counter. Even though combat was sped up and altered to adjust to the hunters new tools, we've been power creeped such that we get way more options and have less reliance on timing and positioning now, it's more about how unga bunga you can go and use counters to cover your ass. The only way to make shit hard was to tune Sunbreaks monsters starting at mid-late game to do 1 shots, and that's really _only_ if you're not collecting any of those stupid spiribirds, and even that isn't enough sometimes unless it's a truly unblockable attack (hence why so many attacks have become multi-hit to punish shield weapons and the counter skills). Then there's obviously wirefall which means you're recovering faster and staying in actual combat longer instead of being fully punished and having to choose when to get up for i-frames. Read the monster wrong and ate shit? Welp I'll just wirefall and heal up quickly. There's a million other things I could go on about but don't want to bother doing for a single youtube comment. What I will say though is I can't take anyone seriously that considers Rise/SB combat harder than any previous game in the series. That's harsh, but just all the new shiny tools that hunters were given in Rise/SB absolute catapulted them into OP territory. It doesn't mean the game can't be hard in it's own way or that people aren't allowed to cart or have trouble. But trying to be objective, it's the easiest MH.
Sunbreak monsters get more chances to pull off their moves because they got more health and don't spend 60% of the fight stunned. Its easier to avoid getting hit because Sunbreak hunters also have the best mobility and defensive options ever, but it's still fairer to the monsters than Iceborne was. It harks back to FU's balance by bilateral absurdity times.
The asmongold clowns in the comments are funny. 99% of them are skill issue with no argument or points afterwards. There is criticism then there is fair criticism. How sad his audience cant make a coherent argument.
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Check out this video where I explain why I believe 4 Ultimate to be the best Monster Hunter game!
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I feel Cluth claw gave us the best way a practical human being can get close to a Bigass monster which are always moving faster being bigger.. the Worse thing is wirebugs in Rise and monster riding.. Monster riding removed the ELEGANCE, the Attitude & personality of monster.. Like really ( Riding shagaru magala, Rajang, riding on wind lord Kushala itself fyck off )
@@SpadeApeiron No mechanic should directly affect damage numbers as the game becomes inevitably balanced around it and the mechanic is forced on you. The Clutch Claw should have only increased partbreak damages or been a reasonably powerful attack, which would have felt more of a reward for getting the opening. The Clutch Claw can shatter from the get-go Kulve Taroth's arms and chest gold armor and is the only way to safely punish Alatreon's floor is ice attack. The Clutch Claw should have been focused on stuff like that rather than tenderizing hitzones, which doesn't make sense as clutch claw attacks are average damage at best, why are your regular high damaging attacks not tenderizing too?
@@johan9428 Yea good point
~ Clutch claw mechanic should have had limited uses and when it used tactically it'd be like our SUPER move. in case of safijiva we have to use Clutch claw to partbreak. without clutchclaw Safijiva quest can never be completed..
How iceborne ruined this channel
The expansion was enjoyable, one of the biggest expansions sold in gaming, millions of people love it, except a guy on here who felt like whining about a gimmic in a game where shotguns can be made from a hide of a monster
@@brianleal87 I disagree with Heavy Wings saying that the clutch claw ruined the entire game as I still like it a lot for everything else. But he is right when he says that the tenderizing mechanic is a neat negative which brings nothing good to the gameplay, only makes it more tedious for the sake of it. The tenderizing mechanic is viewed by most players as the worst thing to have ever been implemented in MH. I would personally be fine with the clutch claw without the tenderizing mechanic and all the balancing around it. But the tenderizing mechanic? I hope we never see it or something similar ever again in future games.
I wonder if the clutch claw's importance was a result of a lack of focus on singleplayer testing. I felt it was a lot less overbearing when the task of softening was shared between more players. Though to be honest I didn't mind the clutch claw all that much and enjoyed iceborne a lot despite it.
That is a good point. In four players, 1 clagger = 4 tenderized spots. As a solo player, you get one and it is notl like you will have access to this tenderized spot non-stop.
Probably, as a solo hunter, the few time I had one or more people helping made this almost imperceptibly.
The point is that the hunts in IB took too long without tenderizing with clutch claw. The game relied too heavily on clutch claw. Base game was fine.
Despite but not thanks to
I was elemental LBG main in worlds and unless u have some1 softening the right parts for ranged damage u will go 2-4 times per fight to camp to restock ammo or run around farming....
I think the biggest issue with the clutch claw is tenderizing.
If it had been a tool to grab on for an extra hit with some weapons and for blademaster weapons to get easier hits on flying monsters, I think that would have been a great addition.
Wallbangs are a more gray area in quality, but I think they're cool. I think they should have been nerfed though.
In a sense yeah, but even without the tenderising the claw is just weirdly implemented. The aiming not really working, only some weapons having integrated combos, being thrown off constantly etc. It was not a good idea to add it in the expansion.
@@HeavyWings
Personally, I had little issue with the Claw. Sure it adds tenderizing but as a SnS player often unless I get more chances to do it, I'm better off just finding the other spots to whack a monster. Times I use the claw are
-avoid an attack
-tenderize specific monster spots over time to make certain stuff easier to do, such as Rajang legs in case I just wish to add damage in.
-Extra damage on a fleeing monster
-The Wallbang.
I will say though the big swords should of gotten faster animations for their big tenderizers.
I still prefer the clutch over Wirebugs though anyday. Personally find then very clunky and it wasn't until freaking Narwa that I figured out how they work. Even then, I don't get the shifts, I see people abuse it and get slapped to death, and it ain't my cup of tea.
There's also nothing quite like Alatreon shredding through your mantle when you clutch his head and mercing you. That's a fun anti-claw thing and it naturally plays in with finding openings on the guy.
yeah wallbangs are fun to pull of but it like with Rise.. that can be integrated in the mounting bit.
@@Ramotttholl
I actually don't like mounting in Rise either, and it ties into the general dislike of Wirebugs. I really enjoyed the actual strat of mounting the Monster for a good knockdown in World. Now it's just yeeting around and stuff
Edit; should clarify its specifically the stamina contest. Alatreon and Fatalis are pretty fun to hop on but a mistake can potentially ruin the attempt. Those dashes are brutal.
and the real issue with tenderizing is that they make monsters with dogshit hitzones to balance it out, forcing you to use the clunk claw
The poor integration between all the weapons is the reason why Lance is my favorite weapon in World. The counter feels actually integrated into the moveset and helps keeps the uptime on tenderization without breaking the flow, and the super armor is something all the weapons should have had
You also have a def boost and a resistance to being thrown off if you "counter grab" but i main lance and i will be honest it keep you from sharpening alots
Same with Dual Blades, clutch clawing mid combo meant you never had to stop attacking to aim and grapple on
The hammer combo is pretty cool too but all the other ones are weird or completely breaks the immersion
Insect glaive had a kinda similar system where you would be flying to reposition anyways, so instead of descending thrust you can descending clutch.
Kinda still sucked because you need to tenderize twice
Clutching with the bow is too smooth to complain about and is perfect for dodging sweeping attacks.
Credit where credit is due: The Clutch Claw made fighting certain monsters (*COUGH* KIRIN *COUGH*) actually fun and bearable. Bouncing off of Kirin when it was enraged was not fun. With the clutch claw, all we had to do was make sure to keep it tenderized. It certainly beat trying to aim for the horn in vain.
I agree with this statement can't wait for rise to come to console next year on January 20th 2023
hmm after beaten velkhana 4 times, this was the first time I even heard about cluth claw. XD I'm so blind
@@Felix-dh9tl try beat AT Velkhana without clutch claw lol
@@famicom89 yeah sounds like pain… slamming monsters in the wall is pretty nice
Break horn -people who fight elders.
As a Lance main, the counter clutch claw move was pure heaven. Just waiting like a Matadore against a charging bull, only to slam right back against their face with KO inducing force. Granted, the application and sheer necessity did get old.
As another lance main, i want this move in mh6 even though the clutch claw will be removed probably
as a new lance main, this move is the entire reason why i started maining it. (i love it now)
The Clutch Claw is why I installed the Iceborne Community Edition (ICE) mod. The modders rebalanced the game to make the CC an optional tool and not mandatory by restoring hitzone values and reducing the effectiveness of softening.
I do mention that mod near the end of the video. I would download it but I want to beat Iceborne as it is at least one more time because the mod rebalances a lot of things.
I wish you could mod console games. That would help a lot in ps4 for me lol
Oh, that's cool!
@@chadderbug7587 same. I have 6k+ hours in World, and honestly, 4u is probably my favorite next to FU.
I remember thinking a few hundred hours in, "I'm not enjoying this like the others," and that was _before_ the clutch claw.
I find I liked MH more as a hunting sim-like. There are videos on how Hunting "lost" its roots that are great teachers of the old ways. I'm rare enough as a PSP solo player convert, but those even fewer I met as PS2 adopters from first and second gen... that would have been my paradise.
I wish I could use it, but reject their Longsword changes...
The wall bangs and attacks weapons got were what I liked about the clutch claw. But the forced tenderizing and being required to do certain things with it for specific monsters got very tedious. So I love the idea of the claw, it’s just the implementation of it is at best mixed.
@@brownboy1468 if we don’t like it, we don’t like it. Simple as. It’s a fucking boring and annoying tool to use. And I don’t like having to stop what I’m doing to tenderize some part or else I’ll miss out on big damage. Don’t tell us to stop complaining over literal personal opinions.
@@brownboy1468 You aren't someone that likes to play with optimization which is fine but for those of us that do the cc is a dogshit addition
@@brownboy1468 Look, I don’t think cc is a huge deal most of the time either and for most monsters, I think it can be largely ignored. But…take a look at a monster like Safi’Jiiva, or Fatalis, these monsters have huge health pools and tiny time limits in comparison to the rest of the monsters. If you don’t use the cc for these monsters, which offer some of the best gear in the game, more likely than not you will NOT be winning and by proxy, not be able to acquire some of the best end game gear
@@bonkusdonkus3743 skill issue
@@setya4540 virgin
Never realized the clutch claw wasn't part of the base game, I just remember not spamming it as much back when I played it on my brother's PS4, and thinking why I didn't use it as much. Probably cause it didn't exist lol.
now that i see the lance CC move it makes me think of that one meme with the a dude slowly approaching you with his arm in an open state.
and now i'll never unsee it
The mandatory tenderizing is what kills me about clutch claw. They can incorporate clutch claw in different ways but instead they made the hunt more of a chores.
@@Knights_of_the_Nine i think you played a different game if you think clutch claw auto stagger the monster.
Not only they nerf some jewel so they can incorporate tenderizing to the skill, they also ruin the flow of combat by adding clagger to the monster.
And no, I can't pretend the clutch claw is not there if my damage output got downscale because i don't tenderize the monster.
@ilham adi gunawan The only way your damage is "downscaled" by the claw is the WEX nerf. Seeing it as a nerf if you don't use it (instead of a buff if you do) is a pessimistic attitude, which of course would lead you to hate it. And face it, WEX is OP and needed a nerf. Even if you don't use the claw at all, it's still the best skill in the game.
And if you try to say that the nerfed hitzones are a way your damage was downscaled, nerfed monster hitzones to try and force the claw is really just... not a thing. I'm sorry, it's just not. To my knowledge, no base game monsters actually had their hitzones significantly changed going into Iceborne, at least not to the extent to make claw "required" (which it never was). What DID happen was that some monster SUBSPECIES like Coral Pukei-Pukei and Acidic Glavenus ended up with worse overall hitzones than their base species, but that usually happens with subspecies anyway. Plus, even then, those monsters still always had one or more hitzones that was able to get the first part of WEX that didn't require the claw, just like every other monster.
This isn't even mentioning that World was the first game with single player scaling. Outside of base World, Iceborne at the time was literally the easiest MH game to solo, claw or not.
And claggers REALLY don't happen that often at the endgame of Iceborne. Title Update monsters especially almost NEVER clagger, and Fatalis doesn't even have one at all. You're lucky if you get a single clagger to happen on a Rajang or Alatreon.
I could go on, but unless you want to continue the discussion, I won't bother you with a longer comment lol.
(EDIT: I have now actually seen proof that hitzone nerfs were indeed a thing in Iceborne and now feel dumb for claiming they weren't lol. I still maintain my opinion though that they weren't severe enough to make tenderizing "mandatory." The most severe nerfs from what I can tell were on already easy monsters like Pukei-Pukei and Tobi-Kadachi. But something like Rathalos and Rathian's heads were only nerfed by around 5, which isn't a huge difference on an already great hitzone.)
It's not mandatory. You're just Long sword user and you're not given a good option with this system.
Or a bow gun user, or a hunting horn user, or a
@@Andrew-hz5zc firstly, i don't know ehat WEX is, sorry haha
And for your other take, it's fair but the general gist I'm getting at is i still feel even though statistical and system wise it's a minor nerfs, it's still bugs me that everytime my TCS hit, there's a small amount of different in the damage number if i tenderize it or not.
And everytime the monster got to clagger state, i always miss my hit because the state itself demands the player to at least cluch to the monster, either to wallbang it or to tenderize it (or to reset the clagger timer), not to mention how far the monster position are before and while in clagger state. It's aggravating at least for me, and i love my ooga booga big TCS number lol
I love World as it is, but your analyisis on the clutch claw is pretty fair. I think it would be better if they added the mounting mechanics to the clutch claw. For example, if the monster attacks, instead of it making you instanly fall off, it would drain your stamina quickly unless you hold on to the monster. And you can tenderize as many parts as you want for the amount of stamina you have.
I totally agree, the best part of the clutch claw was the attacks it gave some weapons, I love Greatsword, gunlance, Lance and Hammer to begin with so it was a really nice edition.
I hated tenderizing monsters and everything else around it though.
Yeah the Lance counter is a lot of fun!
I for some reason like the sns roll/claw move too, is even useful to doge some attacks
I didn't ay many weapons in World, but I liked that you could combo into a clutch grab with the hammer pretty easily.
Then there's IG. I hated and always avoided the claw. It was horribly difficult to aim from the air, so it didn't matter that you could use it airborne lol. I never got the muscle memory down of clicking the stick to swap to clutch claw, so I'd end up sheathing first. It wasn't til endgame of Iceborne that I felt really forced to tenderize
Honestly I only ever use clutch claw to wall bang. I'm not one to tenderize. It just means my hunts take a bit longer
10:01 - Seeing this HP chart makes me think that in MH10 monsters will have the same HP as Borderlands raid bosses
Oh Shit. 😨
We already got Frontier for that.
One thing that I wanted to add is another side effect that the Clutch Claw brought to the table: The Agitator skill.
Even in older games, Agitator/Challenger was a top tier skill to have in G-Rank but in Iceborne it's on a whole other level and because of 2 reasons:
1: Agitator secret: An armor set ability that increases the maximun lever of Agitator up to 7 for even greater benefits, including extra 20% affinity.
2: Clutch Claw allows you to keep the monster constantly enraged and therefore keeping Agitator always up.
This meant that, on top of all the thing you mentioned about the Clutch Claw, now you're also encouraged even more to spam the Clutch Claw, otherwise you also loose all the benefits from Agitator 7.
It also means that you're always fighting monsters while enraged in Iceborne with barely any down time. Fighting monsters like this can get pretty stressful.
Im a switch blade user and I love the clutch claw. Yes it is kind of annoying to miss or my attacks get canceled but i just try harder or figure out another strategy to use my abilities more often.
Swax
Also it gave us less reasons to have self preservation
That's because you're a fanatic. XD
I actually enjoyed the clutch claw a lot. Once you learn the monster you are able to know when the timing is optimal to clutch. I also don't think the stagger animation was bad, i felt it was more for a breathing space rather than an interruption to my combo. I don't think it is forced, i have friends that don't like it and would speed run almost every monster in less than 5 minutes, yes the tenderize reduces this time a lot, but it is still optional. I actually don't like wirebugs, like you said at the start, if a feature is optional and you dont like it, you have the option not to use it, and that holds true to the clutch claw, but take LS for example. You can't helm splitter without wirebug, That is something that is forced, when you take away a core skill from the weapon and turn it into a gadget that has a cooldown, that is the biggest problem of wirebugs which was just somewhat fixed with risen kushala's wind mantle. But I honestly would take the clutch claw always first before wire bugs. At the end of the day i feel its a matter of opinion, but still, cool video. Thanks for showing your point of view and critizism honestly, that is something this community needs a lot!
The slinger itself was fine, I especially loved catching endemics and making pets of them, but yeah, needing to tenderize and wall bash every single monster was a chore.
So true. I loved the pets and just got addicted to trying to get all the crowns. Lol. But tenderizing is definitely a chore. Especially on Safi’jiiva. Good grief is that fight just overly tedious.
Tenderizing is a chore yeah, but you don't have to wall bang if you don't want to dude
@@Slepepeit's was? All I can remember is people failing the mission cause they choose to put tenderizing above their own future. Ain't that the reason it gets mad and well... attacks you without chill? So you can't depend on it and actually play the game with the damage you get without tenderizing
@@Cataclysm999 I played the entire game and 100% it without the claw I maybe used it a hand full of times at the very start of the game in the test area, hell I still don't know how to tenderize to this day nor wall bang you can act like it doesn't exist and still be able to do all the content like no joke I've been able to do the hardest hunts in the game solo without ever using the claw the only use I found from it was shooting stuff out of it to keep the monster from fleeing and shooting a environment piece like the huge rock falling.
I only use the claw to hitch a ride on the monster when he is running away then I hop off when low stam. CB user here and I don't need to tenderize shiiiiiet.
I played through World and Iceborne on both PC and PS4. On PS4 I got World at launch, played it extensively, and then picked it up again once Iceborne came out. Upon starting Iceborne, the absolute tank that was Beotodus really slapped me in the face. I couldn't believe how big of a jump it was in difficulty from base World!
I then played Iceborne even more extensively than I did World. And around the time Fatalis launched I had built myself a PC and was working my way through a PC save of World. Once I got to Iceborne I remembered how much of a tanky bastard Beotodus was and bracing myself for another 20 minute hunt.
But that's not what happened. All my time playing Iceborne on PS4 had made me more than adept at using the clutch claw and flinch shot to their full effectiveness, and since I was playing on PC with both lances and hammers, my weapons of choice meshed extra well with it. I ended up taking down Beotodus just as fast as any other hunt in Iceborne, tacking a couple minutes onto the timer to account for my usage of high rank equipment. The difference between using the claw and not using it is very, very easily felt, and it's a night and day difference unfortunately.
I went through the same process, except i went from Xbox to ps4. I also remember struggeling in a long drawn out battle with Beotodus the first go. The second go round was smooth. Though I honestly don't believe it was from the clutch claw. When I first fought Beo, I was not only new to the monster. But also new to the damage, speed and health it had. I struggled to recognize openings because I wasn't used to the snow. I struggled in all aspects. The second time we met, I was fully comfortable with every element of that fight. Whether i used the clutch claw or not, it was going to go smoothly because I was at a COMPLETELY different skill level then I was the first time. I came into that fight better prepared mentally and also better equipped.
i can agree but most fights were generally 20mins. so if it didn't exist you be forced into a 20 min hunt. it just makes it easier. also to me it never felt needed hell i rarely even noticed the difference
I've played Monster Hunter since Monster Hunter Freedom on the PSP, and honestly... I love the clutch claw and a lot of my friends who used to play with me from before do...
Greatsword main from Iceborne here, While I wouldn't say Clutch Claw ruined Iceborne.. It did seriously break a flow of a hunt so lot. infact, in the very late game you could do away with tenderising as long as you hit a weakpoint because honestly, the meta was to keep a monster enraged or on a floor due VERY easily stackable secret skill.
If only wallbanging was something you could do with slinger ammo and succesful mount, it would have been a lot better. IMHO. Mounting was mostly weaksauce in World
I found ICE to be quite helpful. My main gripe with IB was the guiding lands since it was very grindy to get all the way to MR100 and level regions solo. The CC balancing made Ruiner much more enjoyable for me since trying to tenderize him felt extremely difficult. The only downside of ICE is that almost no other mods work with it.
I hear ICE also does things like make the Fatalis gear not so overpowered. Just a massive rebalance of the entire game.
ICE is good but it doesn't fix any of the problems I had with the game pre-Iceborne. Like how bad the stun effects are and other monsters constantly interrupting your hunts. It got really old really fast and it often feels like I'm spectating instead of playing.
The only weapon that I really used the clutch claw with was my switch axe because it made it easier to get on the certain monster parts, and use its ability to do major damage to that one part specially if you wanted to cut tails off, it was pretty much the only weapon I need the clutch claw for.
The clutch claw looks like it should have just been a gap closer. Like it could be used to move with the monster for certain attacks like greatsword charges.
Adamant charge wirebug skill
@@Tomix4k byeah
That's what wirebugs are in rise.
People hate the necessity of clutch claw in world but in rise where not using a wirebug counter or wirebug skill is a DPS loss they like it
@@Alatyreon Wirbugs aren't just a dps loss. They are kinda your main defence for specific weapons that can't block.
The clutch claw was good; the balancing around it was *horrendous*. Nothing in a monster Hunter game should be borderline required the same way that tenderizing monsters was. I’ve been playing Iceborn Community Edition and wow, the clutch claw is legitimately so fun when it isn’t used purely to annoy the player. The option to flinch a monster and clutch onto it to throw it around or weaken parts for more damage is amazing. But with they way its balanced in vanilla it’s not even an option, you basically have to do it.
For some reason I feel more invested in MH games when the combat is more grounded instead of hunter arts or wirebugs.
Absolutely, I really dislike both of those mechanics. It's also one of the reasons why I didn't really connect with Rise. In Rise you feel more like some superhero/demigod than a Hunter.
@robinmattheussen2395 I know, monsters are punching bags most of the time, and barely any preparation before the quest, no bombs, no meat, traps, flash bombs, just beat it until it dies.
@@anrc5439 no preparation before quests started with world though, i never prepared for quests in base world because it was such a joke difficulty wise, only used flash bombs on like 2 annoying monsters and forgot about bombs and traps altogether outside of capture quests, not to mention things like movi g while healing and the pathetic damage monsters deal make you feel like a demigod.
@@anrc5439Idk man, the monsters had a massive speed boost in rise and especially in sunbreak. The 90% of Iceborne's roster ain't adapted to the clutch claw.
I still think to date 4 has the best combat because it was the last one without any major gimmicks getting in the way
I really like the clutch claw in theory, primarily because, on the face of it, it's a nice middle ground between rise's wirebugs giving too much power and freedom to the player and something more restrained. like being able to make a monster rush forward and have it hit a wall is a really good and fun mechanic and when coupled with how easy it is to fall of (ccompared to mounting for example) it makes a great risk/reward system. in theory.
of course in practice it was heavily overtuned and what should've been something you could use occationally in a hunt to push an advantage became what you described here.
Use the claw. Use the claw. Use the claw...
Attempts to use the claw on a beastie flailing around... After three tries targeting the head, I end up on its hind leg and then I get damage, fireblight and poison from its mouth. Mm. Logical.
Fundamentally, I think it speaks to just how bad Claw was that mods exist whose sole purpose is to minimise or outright remove Claw's role in combat. Nobody is modding underwater combat out of 3U, or removing Wirebugs from Rise, but Claw was so genuinely terrible that people resorted to mods to just not have to deal with it. World is probably the only MH game where there is a sizeable number of dedicated players who passionately prefer the Base game over the expansion, and Claw is the sole reason for that.
I like the concept of the clutch claw, but in practice it didn’t work out quite as well as it could’ve. However I grew to like it more over time learning when I can get an opening to tenderize the monster. Having to tenderize felt tedious but it still was a little bit rewarding tendering monsters like Fatalis or Alatreon or AT Velkhana, monsters that really don’t like when you clutch on them. When you do learn their attacks and find a safe opening to tenderize or flinch shot it is rewarding, and adds another layer of combat, but in its execution it did start to feel tedious having to constantly tenderize monsters.
The staggers do help to get time to tenderize but the fact they get pushed back so far is so frustrating when you whiff your helm breaker because the spirit thrust staggered them
The janky aim of the clutch claw is also so frustrating
Now that Return to World is in full swing, you should look into the ICE mod. Iceborne Community Edition. Fixes a LOT of nonsense like claggers.
I personally liked the clutch claw, both visually and mechanically, however I definitely think it's balanced poorly. I feel as though it'd be better if tenderizing didn't increase damage dealt, so monsters wouldn't have to be balanced around it, but instead focused entirely on part breaks. Then, tenderizing is optional and is just there to help farming, or in specific fights by weakening a monster.
Since I only really use IG, my only issue with it was that it'd take 2 attacks to get the tenderize off, but other than that it added onto the weapon's gameplay quite a bit. Being able to dive with the clutch claw midair and latch onto whatever I hit, or using it after a mount to grapple onto a monster's head before touching the ground. It was cool and fun. Wallbangs were alright for me, mostly as a result of fights being longer, thus needing the extra openings, but in my experience it never got to the point where monsters spent too much of the fight on the ground (except Ruiner Nergi, that boi lives on banana peels).
On the other hand, wirebugs made Rise and Sunbreak so easy for me that the only times I ever felt threatened was during the emergency event quests of base Rise and the higher end anomaly investigations of Sunbreak. The extra air time and mobility IG got with wirebugs made, and still makes, pretty much every single hunt extremely safe. Not to say it isn't fun tho, wirebugs are just as cool to me as the clutch claw.
Of course, such experiences with either game are entirely subjective, and that's just how it was for me.
What I like about wirebugs is that it keeps the flow of combat "flowing" and it gives you strategy options, you can avoid using skills so you can jump out from a hit and keep fighting, you dont need to superman dive to avoid superattacks, if a monster gets too far away, wirebug to him and keep fighting, everything keeps you in the flow, the game never stops just so you can preform a specific action.... Well, at least now that riding isnt mandatory it doesn't.
Ive been playing this series since monhun 1 and honestly risebreak has been ny favourite combat so far
I've always wondered why I didn't like the claw as much as I liked the wirebugs, and I realise it all comes down to tenderizing. I wholeheartedly believe I wouldn't love the wirebugs as much as I do if they kept the tenderizing mechanic. Sure, wirebugs are basically the claws taken to the extreme, but it's the fun part of that extreme. Instead of aiming a specific part of the monster, I can just zip onto or zip away wherever and whenever. Instead of tenderizing, we have silkbinds that are completely optional to use and are only mandatory for certain builds(the switchaxe counter is kinda important to build up the gauge in power phial switchaxes). In Sunbreak I can play like a traditional hunter, just a lot faster and more mobile, or utilise the bugs to their fullest potential. In Iceborne, the claw is a must.
Anyways, that's why I don't like the claw I guess.
I hated the Clutch Claw for essentially why this video pointed out. It was a not fun mechanic the game forced on you if you didn't want to make each hunt take 35+ minutes. It felt bad and it felt like the game was constantly slapping you and going "Use the CC or else". It made me not even finish Iceborne. I desperately hope it doesn't return to MH again.
That said I didn't particularly care for the Wirebugs either. They made the game too zippy and also felt like it punished you if you wanted to play without them. And Wyvern Riding just felt like them trying to slap together the wall banging of IB and the monsties from Stories into a weird, OP mishmash.
Between hating most of Iceborne and getting bored of Rise long before SB came out I'm wary of MH6. I desperately hope it goes back to the more 3U/4U still game instead of the gimmickfest Gen 5 has been.
Never had that much an issue with the clutch claw. I recently started Rise and noticed that the rhythm and weight of attacks feels much less impactful. And monsters tend to be quite relentless in attacks to the point of stunlocking me to cart. That barely ever happened in World. World had a slower methodical pace and I liked that a lot. A lot of Rise faster pace can be found in the Wirebug moves. A lot of them are dash, lunge or counter based. Makes sense but also means the rhythm is much less forgiving.
That being said, I do see the argument of clutch law being not fully integrated. The idea fitted the more methodical style but it was kinda just aiming in the wrong direction. My gripe is a different one, with clutch claw anything regarding slingshot that was not triggering boulders to fall down became borderline useless. I liked using the slingshot as a tool in the arsenal. But most MR creatures had outright immunity. Behemoth was an entire fight dedicated to the slingshots functionality. That died with iceborne. Maybe a nerv had to be down. But I dont remember or caring what I shot at most wyverns as long as they took damage from what was falling down. It's a shame. One mechanic should replace the one established earlier in the same game.
To me riding and clutch claw in iceborne is roughly the same as Wirebug riding in rise. Just with less agency over it. It's going to happen anyway and it's basically both a gloryfied qte.
Jump moves were one of my favorites in world, especially when they ended in a ride. In Rise you can pull them of so easy they had to be nerfed into the ground. Which is a shame. I think if clutch claw was simply giving access to maneuver to and around a creature that would have been fine.
That's because you're a fanatic, so no; what you say doesn't count. XD
@@IncognitoActivado how does that make sense? XD
@@BlackStrey Because fanaticism is bad, obviously. ;)
@@IncognitoActivado it's more how im a fanatic. But I take that^^
@@BlackStrey I'm glad to know that you accept the truth of why your opinions will never matter; It's a big step you're taking. :)
World was my first Monster Hunter, and Iceborne was fuckin' tight as fuck, but as soon as I got to Alatreon I started to realize that something had been nagging at me, and that was "Mandatory playstyle."
I loved World because I could fuck around and still manage to beat the monsters. My friends and I had a lot of fun fighting random things, screaming, making armor, etc.
None of us used the Slinger almost at all, save to flashbug monsters out of the air.
But then the Clutch Claw came along.
I didn't mind it at first, but it was like an itch I was sort of ignoring. I noticed that every single hunt started feeling exactly the same. Clutch claw tenderize, hit that part for 1 minute, wallbangs, claggers, etc., with our actual fighting being like 80% "Beat it up while it's on the ground after a wallbang."
The game completely ceased feeling dynamic and just felt formulaic. No matter the monster, same routine. Clutch to its head, smash it into a wall, beat it up, bonus points if we put barrel bombs by the wall beforehand, tenderizing, etc.
I started like, viscerally hating that if you weren't attacking the Tenderized part, you were doing like 25% damage, and sometimes would just clang off of them. It went from "Attack the part you're trying to break" or "Attack the head to try to get a stun" or "Attack the tail to cut it," to "Attack the tenderized part or you're wasting everyone else's time."
Now that brings me to Alatreon.
Why'd he make me realize the playstyle felt mandatory?
Because after 300 attempts at Alatreon, my friends and I finally realized that it was basically mandatory to bring Fire weapons on two of us and Ice weapons on the other two, and we literally had to DPS-check break the horns at specific intervals or else we failed the hunt. The game was literally forcing us, very suddenly, to play a very specific way or we couldn't progress at all.
That's when it all hit me like a ton of bricks. Alatreon's elemental weaknesses and the mandatory horn breaking, the Clutch Claw tenderizing and wallbangs, they weren't just "Do these to make the fight go faster," they were "Do these or you'll fail the hunt because there's no way you'll beat the DPS-checks or hunt timer otherwise."
I only beat Fatalis one time in World, and that was it, I gave up after that, threw in the towel, and even though my friends kept playing for another full year I had completely lost interest in it because I do not like being punished for not utilizing mandatory gimmicks like the Clutch Claw, wallbanging and the Alatreon ice/fire/hornbreak gimmicks.
A game like Monster Hunter is fun when the most important choices you make are what weapon fits your playstyle, what decorations you have and how much knowledge you have of a monster's attack patterns.
But it rapidly screeches to a catastrophic twenty car pile-up of unfun-ness when the game very suddenly says "Alright idiot, here's a brand new gimmick, and if you don't use it and get good at using it and reuse it to weaken body parts on the monster literally every minute, you're a fucking idiot and you're gonna fail the hunt. Fuck you."
So tldr: Improve your reading comprehension it's not the end of the world to take 1 minute and 45 seconds to read a comment.
Sounds like a skill issue to me
If the clutch claw was only used for the occasional wall bang and extra hit/gap close it would've been great imo.
Revert hit zones to what they were in world, remove tenderize, remove the clagger and put some sort of limitation on wall bang so a non enraged monsters get to actually do something and it's fixed. There are mods that have done things like these.
The way you describe how Clutch Claw affects Iceborne reminds me of slag in Borderlands 2's Ultimate Vault Hunter Mode. Coincidentally both these can ruin the flow of combat if your build doesn't synergise with it and the game can become a slog if you don't use them.
Great point. Slag ruined bl2 for me.
wow almost like end game requires a certain build. Dont play end game content then.
@@sutnack7537division 2 does not require any specific build. There are hundreds of them to be made. Not sure wtf you talking about
. The division 2 isnt the best example of a quality loot game. Just saying
Man I hated slag lol good comparison
Clutch Claw is the reason I started to use Sticky Light Bowgun. No need to tenderize if your attacks ignores Hitzones.
Biggest issue with clutch is tenderizing, I love the idea of it, hey turn a non weak point into a weak point, but they ended up making hitzones more like, hey, tenderize the weakest point, and now it's a weak point....
I'm a bowgun user, and when fighting fatalis.....I'm only allowed to shoot it's chest, even the tenderized head isn't a weak spot, so I ended up using sticky for that fight, he's immune to stun, but at least I could help break his head
Great video, World and Iceborne are in a weird position for me. By the end of Iceborne's run for me, I found myself hating the game far more then when I started it. The clutch claw definitely played a part in it, and one point not brought up is how world's fights have very few openings or specific combos you can read. Monsters are erratic, constantly moving, and rarely have big clear openings for you to exploit. It was a much more reactionary game compared to to the older games or even Rise, and this was a big part of why I hated combat in that game. The clutch claw creating openings felt like it gave the devs more reasons to not make monsters have clear openings, since you can create your own. I often found myself trying to wait out a monster's enraged state because it was impossible to attack without getting punished. This isn't a problem with me reading monsters, I've been playing these games since Tri and have made it to the end game of nearly every game in the series. World's combat just did not gel with me at all, it was too much of a departure from the older, slower style, without proper compromises like what Rise had. If I would have to say what the perfect MH game would be for me, it would be one with combat closer to the older games (in terms of monster tells and positioning being more important than just reaction time and counters), with the in depth world building of Worldborne, and with combat as fun and rewarding with moveset customization like what Rise has.
I haven’t actually played world or iceborne, but I have played rise and sunbreak, and I just wanna point out that while the silkbind attacks are indeed mandatory, unlike the clutch claw, they only add to your punishment opportunities instead of detracting from them. The clutch claw forces you to use it to tenderize the monster when you have the chance, which means your ability to fully punish the monster is contingent on it already being tenderized, on top of having on opening. In rise/sunbreak, the silkbind attacks only give you more options for how to punish the monster when you have the chance. Not to mention the silkbind attacks can also be used strategically to actually create openings and punishment opportunities. The clutch claw technically can too, but it’s a matter of aiming your reticle at the monster and pulling off the wallbang, rather than strategically using unique moves designed specifically for the weapon you’re using.
You didn’t really need tenderize if you have affinity and mind’s eye build. People just screaming because they can’t get maximum result from attack jewel and critical eyes without tenderizing.
^Delusional
@@arapaimagold8088actual idiot
Seeing that health bar makes everything make sense to me now, I stopped playing the game after sometime because it was just too much of a grind and why, BECAUSE I HAD NO IDEA THE CLUTCH CLAW WAS SO INTEGRAL!!!! I totally glossed over it and whenever I came to try the game out again I forgot that it even existed 💀
The biggest thing from when I started World to buying Iceborn, was that almost all my weapons would bounce off without tenderizing. You could fight a monster in the base game, have your attacks go through, then buy the DLC and then suddenly tenderizing was an integral mechanic.
Could not agree anymore. This one thing single handily made me quit. The sad part is I didn’t even get to fight glavenus. A monster I’ve been waiting for to come back.
Ice mod
Not sure about other weapons, but I think Clutch Claw + Hammer is seamless. Letting you clutch out of two of held charge attacks really helped with the flow of fights and lets me keep up with faster monsters. If I could've kept the Clutch Claw in place of Wirebugs, I probably would have, even without wallbangs and tenderizing.
The ire against the clutch claw is directed at the tenderizing mechanic. The game is inevitably balanced around it, thus you have to use it as much as possible to deal normal damages instead of when you want it. If Capcom removed the tenderizing effect, brought back the old hitzone values/made the tenderized hitzone values the default while keeping the wallbang and the clutch attacks (which you would use for example against a flying monster, an out of reach part or to punish an otherwise unpunishable attack like Alatreon's floor is ice), all of a sudden, no one would complain anymore about the clutch claw as it would be an additional tool you use on the side of the normal gameplay when you find it convenient rather than a necessary maintenance you need to do regularly.
What is annoying is that it would require little work, yet Iceborne director never addressed the issue despite the community hating the tenderizing mechanic from the get-go (the most vocal being the speedrunners). He only did the barest minimum (Shaver jewel? All light weapons should tenderize in one hit period, no costly lv3 decoration needed and 3 minutes is still too short for the tenderized hitzones to last without having to overuse the clutch claw) at the very end, probably at the request of Ryozo since he seemed to be the "my way or the highway" kind of guy.
in that old monster hunter world proto-demo, it featured part of the clutch claw, just the shooting ammo into the head thing.
i see that that had plans for using it ever since that demo
Clutch claw is good and bring more versatile gameplay to the game. Yes, you have to be careful when use it, and it's a good thing not a bad
I largely agree with this opinion, with an addition. It feels like monster aggression got sped up significantly in IB to make the clutch claw feel necessary to use. The non-stagger attack windows in the base game allowed for a couple hits with good positioning. In IB they felt few and far between, unless you managed to exhaust them, which became null once they got agitated.
IB felt like they mandated a cycle of tenderize and wallbang, and then wait until the monster isn't agitated.
People don't realize how intrusive the clagger was in the pace of the game. I don't like how in Rise the monsters are forced to fight each other if they're in the same area but at least the wyvern riding stance it's one time per quest and after SB it's a small (huge) opening where the monster stands still. The clagger triggered WAY more often, it randomly ovverided normal staggers or even worse head staggers and messed up the positioning by pushing the monster away from you. Fighting Kushala in IB feels so different compared to base World now because of that
I measured how long it would take to reposition myself after the clagger animation is activated. It literally takes 2.4 seconds. Stop crying about the pace.
Tenderizing I think is a perfectly fine mechanic implemented poorly. It would have been better as something implemented into each weapon's moveset - either as a new move or additional benefit to existing moves. SnS, DB, and Lance had this done rather well, but it could have worked as a benefit of using less-used moves as well. On GS for example it should have been included as an effect of landing Strong Wide Slash on a monster part. This would allow the mechanic while keeping combat flowing, as well as rewarding proper spacing with a tenderize on the part players are actually hitting.
On a related note - the lack of necessity to tenderize is part of why the Fatalis fight is one of the best fights in the series for me. It takes what is (imo) the best base combat in the series and just pits you against the final threat. Yeah the fight has gimmicks, but it still felt really well-crafted to me.
Totaly agree with everything you said. One of the most egregious parts for me was how the monster hitboxes while clutch clawing felt basicaly random, especialy when you compare one monster to another. But what realy did it for me was when I clawed onto a rathalos' wing while he was flying, and he did that swoop down claw attack. Not only did I get knocked off, but I got poisoned. How do you explain that? I guess they changed the canon so that rathalos has poison in his wings now too.
Yeah it's a bit like the Barioth tail example, they really needed to design the game around something like this from the start to avoid issues like that.
Ngl I really live the clutch claw and I’ve grown used to it with LS and CB but it does fuck you up a lot sometimes, it’s was prob mostly tested in multiplayer instead specially bc they added the SOS and prob had that in mind. But I’ve talked with people from like the gathering hub discord and they said that they wanted NEITHER the clutch claw or the wirebug and a few people probably hated the wire bug more than the clutch claw for some reason I think? Idk I prob interpreted that wrong? Who knows, I mean the tenderizing thing being a MUST have is literally annoying asf to the point that when I go to make a build and show it off people literally ask “WHERES AGITATOR, TENDERIZER AND CRITICAL BOOST?” LIKE BRO WTF I understand agitator bc it’s literally free dmg after using your clutch claw and making the monster enraged specially if you back down into low or high rank
I think it's a bit much to say that it "ruins" the game while every criticism can be summed up to a skill issue for the most part. I personally haven't had any issues beating monsters quickly and a lot of times i forget the clutch claw even exists. The pause that monsters do to me is no different then when they are tired in the middle of the fight as well.🤷🏾♂️🤷🏾♂️I don't see it as a big deal tbh
The Clutch Claw was introduced to solve a problem that didn't exist. And it resulted in an unbalanced mess. It was one of the reasons why I dropped the game when I did. Before I go on a tangent though, I wanna elaborate. I was a hardcore aerial IG main in World and Iceborne and never felt comfortable using the Crutch Claw. I think there were combos that led you crutch onto Monsters from the air, but I really disliked the whole "You have to use it to tenderize for better Hit Zone Values, nvm Weakness Exploit" part of it. So I did not use it at all. Which was actually p fine until the last two fights. After them I dropped Iceborne for the first time. Came back a bit later, but it didn't last long either.
Same here as a Bow user. Weakness Exploit was everything for Bow. As a fast weapon, CC killed flow and had you stop from dashing rolling
The whole premise of this video is based on you not enjoying the use of the slinger/clutch claw. The fix for you would be to lower health of the monsters so it wouldn't feel like the mechanic is required. That might be great for you, but you're just throwing a middle finger to anyone who enjoys using it. I for one like that it's not mindlessly easy to use. I like having to find an opening. I like that it's punishing to not use all the tools I have available. I like the look of the animations. I like that there are two mantles can be used to make it easier if I want. Base world was too easy, I agree. And thank you, Iceborne, for forcing me to actually think about my build and lean forward in my chair during a fight. Iceborne isn't just a story DLC. It's an entire end-game on top of World's end-game. It should be difficult, and it should absolutely expect you to do more than pack Mega Potions and bonk a monster on the head for 5 minutes.
Clutch claw wasn't the best but it was a improvement, it allowed for players to stay on the hunt by riding on the monster so they can follow, the slinger unload allows players who don't get much exhaust the ability to Stun, and it generally improves the combat with heavy hitting clutch claw attacks, some people don't use it because it wasn't necessary for a good hunt, it could expand a player's playstyle, that's why I think It was a good edition
the biggest issue i have with it is how inconsistent it is and how little is actually explained of what's going on.
Why do i get thrown off 7 times in a row while the monster is just standing there but can ride on for the entirety of a rathalos death lotus midair.
why can my friend just clutch onto it without any problem for the entire fight.
why do light weapons have to clutch it twice to tenderize it or otherwise slot in a high level decoration just to get the basic functionality of the forced mechanic.
why is insect glaive reliant on landing a clutch to perform in the most basic of combat scenarios due to their reliance on monster dropped slinger ammo.
sometimes the monster glides along the wall from a clagger, sometimes it hits nothing.
When you're fighting safi'jiva, you're actively told that you need to clagger the monster at specific times by voice cues from the extras, yet trying to do it when they say just causes you to get arbitrarily knocked off 7 more times.
why does completing a tenderize both animation lock you and drop you off directly in front of the monster/ on top of one of its attacks.
like it feels like its 100% designed just to be BS from the start.
Yeah, the clutch claw, and the way the game feels bent around it, really takes away from the fun of the hunt. In a big way. I'd agree that the feeling of world, before iceborne, was peak mh.
The clutch claw is only good for wall bangs and evading certain floor attacks. Constantly tenderising the monster feels like a chore it’s boring.
I will say I agree a lot with what was said as a clutch claw denier myself, but I'd also go onto say that having a little interaction between the monster and the clutch claw (like the fatalis standing up and then crawling after a flinch shot) went a long way for me and made me almost think of the clutch claw as an actually well valid and well intetactive mechanic.
Almost.
The thing is, you don’t have to use the clutch claw. When people say you are forced to use it or they are being disingenuous because let’s be real, most hunters don’t even use powders, seeds, or traps to increase their damage. Those are all different ways to increase damage output and you don’t have to use them and they aren’t forced, so why is clutch claw different and you have to use it?
I see clutch claw as anything else in the game, a tool that I can choose to use that make hunts easier.
@@chi7818 it's a high damage tool. I personally also denied the cape things. I forgot the name as I havent played in years. Evasion heavy invincibility fire resistance etc. I will admit the only one I did use was the fire resistance because Lunastra was an annoying b and it saver me from using fire resistant slots for more damage stones.
@@SemekiIzuio yeah I agree, but just because it’s a high damage tool doesn’t mean it’s mandatory. That’s what I don’t get, why is this one high damage tool mandatory but so many others aren’t? That’s like saying you have to use bow or hbg or LS because their damage is so much higher than let’s say lance. No one says traps are mandatory but the amount of damage you can pump out in a single trap is ridiculous. No one says mega demondrugs, demon powders, and might seeds are mandatory even though they give a lot of attack.
That’s all I’m saying, they are being disingenuous and overreacting by saying clutch claw ruins the game because you have to tenderize for damage because they don’t even try to optimize damage in other ways.
@@chi7818 because they put half of Weakness Exploit into the clutch claw. They nerfed WE from its 30% iirc the percentage, cut it to 10% and put the 20% on tendering. On top of that they buffer up monsters HP in Iceborne because the game wants you, forces you to use tenderize unless suffer the consequences of weak damage/long kill time.
You can make up the damage by using other crap like str, power surge, and other strong slot gems. But they literally took away a healthy damage mechanic and put it somewhere else splitting the damage. That's what a Nerf is except it wasnt broken.
@@SemekiIzuio considering might seed is 5% attack for 3 minutes, mega demon drug is 3.3% attack until you cart, and demon powder is 5% attack for 3 minutes, you are missing out on 13.3% attack by not using these items. Why isn’t this necessary but 20% crit is?
Let’s also not forget they made crit eye 7 give 10% more crit, and agitator secret gave 10% more crit meaning you could make up for the missing 20% by not tenderizing.
Don’t get me wrong, clutch claw is a powerful tool but like you said, it’s a tool, it’s not mandatory.
I've played world casually for over 80 hours and didn't use the claw much, just when I remembered I had it and i never felt like it had a detriment to the game but I keep hearing people complain about it so I am interested to see exactly why. Will edit once I've watched the video to give my opinions
Edit: having now watched the video, a couple things leap out at me. The largest impact of the clutch claw on the game is the clagger, as it breaks normal gameplay, and I think while it could have worked it they didn't move so far away, it is definitely a detriment. Your other points however, I'm not so sure about. Playing through iceborne hunts took a while but I fully expected that because it's master rank and it's always harder, but until I learned they were supposed to take an extra long time in this video, I never noticed it, and it did not break my immersion at all. I also didn't notice the reduced hotzone damage either, and the cool moves and other things iceborne added far overshadowed the only thing I didn't like which was the clagger. This may be due to the fact that I play gunlance, which is a pretty slow play style so that could have contributed to not noticing the longer fight times.
In conclusion: for someone playing casually or with friends not focused on optimizing the endgame(alatreon, fatalis) I don't think clutch claw is as jarring as people make it out to be even a good way into master rank.
Context on me as a player(gunlance main, 800 hours across 3u, 4u, gu, world, and rise. Imo best game is 4u, world, gu, rise, 3u in that order)
It's fine in World, once u get to iceborne in becomes much worse as the entire game is made around it, it in a way makes it feel mandatory.
Played Worlds across PS4 and PC with a combined 1400 hours. Clutch claw is 100% forced in Master/G rank and let me tell you, it's not fun at all trying to find the only window in a middle of a fight that breaks the fight cycle. Ie) you dodge and weave through attacks of a Zinogre and hit him once on an off hit and then he staggers mid combo and it goes from a game of fighting optimally to "oh I need to clutch claw now". And then if you fight Alatreon and Fatalis without tenderizing their heads, GOOD LUCK winning that fight is all I have to aay
@@leekyonion LOL, Alatreon and Fatalis are the monsters where tenderizing is literally, FACTUALLY the LEAST useful, especially their heads. Alatreon's head is an 85 hitzone. The tenderize multiplier formula is to times by 0.75, then add 25 and take off the decimal. That means the higher the hitzone the less useful tenderizing actually is. For Alatreon's 85 hitzone head, that goes up to 88, a difference of 3. Hardly anything at all.
Fatalis' head is a hitzone of 75. Oh, not as high as Alatreon's, so it's more useful right? WRONG, Fatalis is special in that a negative 5 "bonus" is applied after the tenderizing formula on tenderized parts. That means that tenderizing his head literally only improves the hitzone by ONE. He also doesn't need a tenderized head in order to get a partbreak bonus on wallbangs, meaning tenderizing the head is practically worthless for Melee weapons. Saying tenderizing is required for Ala and Fatty is one of the most ignorant statements ever, the bonus you get from it is extremely tiny on them specifically. They honestly punish you more if you DO use the claw because they each have multiple moves that pin or just straight up kill you if you are clutched on, even with a mantle.
It's almost like people hear that tenderizing is required and just immediately believe it without doing any research or even trying it out themselves.
He says that in the video, it doesn’t affect the base game because it didn’t exist at the time.
@@chandlerh2408 I'm not just talking about the base game, I'm a good way into master rank and I still don't use it as I had stated in my comment
I've also spoken about this with some other very long time game veterans, and also broached the subject of why they don't like Rise.
It is for basically the same reason that the clutch claw "ruins" Iceborne.
Fundamentally, both the clutch claw and wirebugs are extremely powerful general mechanics available to all hunters which necessarily shape the game around them. At first they trivialize it because the devs themselves don't know how strong the mechanics actually are, and monsters aren't designed to really interact with them. Clutch claws made monsters in Iceborne extremely squishy and easy to permastun, wirebugs made hunters in rise functionally immortal. Naturally, this made the games "easymode" at first.
But then the devs update the game. They change the monsters to take these mechanics in account, in essence assuming that the hunters can and will make full use of them. This results in anyone who wasn't using the mechanics for legacy reasons- IE they are game veterans with years of hardlocked habits and biases; and are allergic to change; and hate the idea of having to add a new tool to their kit and develop new skills or use weapons in new ways- which is fine. If they have a specific style of play they like they're fine to enjoy playing it. The issue is that when the devs inevitably make the shift in the monster designs to balance the game and make it genuinely challenging, these players get left behind extremely hard and are put into a position where they feel they have no *choice* but to use the mechanic they don't like; and thus come to hate the entire game as a whole. In other words, it goes from a matter of simply not being optimal to one of deciding between strugglebussing through the remainder of the game or hating playing it because its not what they're used to.
It happened in Iceborne when they began releasing post-game monsters that had specific anti-clutch mechanics (or mechanics which outright required clutch), such as Rajang, Alatreon, AT Velk, Fatalis, Safi, Raging Brachy.
It happened in Rise when they release sunbreak, and the entire second half of the game's monster cast was designed with wirebug mobility in mind (although they technically were in basegame as well, its very clear the devs really did not know the strength of the wirebug- as the game did not become difficult in any meaningful way until the event quest for the super high difficulty Crimson Glow Valstrax), including the fact that one of the game's fundamental defensive mechanics (having i-frames when on the ground) was dramatically nerfed to make up for wirebug recovery- which itself was now punished by several monsters that had moves specifically designed to counter it unless you time it perfectly (essentially the same as getup s, but just different in nature and thus something that needs to be "relearned" for veteran players not used to being bad at the game and new players who struggle with things like frame perfect timings to begin with). Some players also have severe hatreds for "easy" weapons like Bowguns- and despised wirebugs *specifically* because it gave bowguns mobility that they "shouldn't" have (although to be fair it did NOT come at the cost of their damage potential like it should have, and as a result HBGs in Rise are kind of laughably OP since they literally "have it all").
As an addon, I generally agree with the video's conclusions. The clutch claw was a half-assed addition to an already well designed game that put both the devs and the players in a tough spot, and ended up leaving sore feelings with many.
The wirebug was a part of Rise from day 1, and although it wasn't really "balanced" well until Sunbreak- that is leagues better than the Clutch Claw which wasn't balanced until the last *7* monsters in the entire game. To me, the existence of the wirebug is no different than the existence of Mega Potions, or Max Potions, or Demondrugs, or Armortalon/Powertalon, the moveset of every single weapon. It's just another mechanic to add to the list of mechanics to learn. But for veterans players who fundamentally want little more than a modern graphical reboot of their favorite monster hunter game, it's an alien oddity that distinctly separates the game from what they view as the "True" monster hunter experience.
Honestly, 4U has the best combat. Especially for GS. GS is kinda brain dead now, it used to be about openings and timing. Now it’s hurrdurr tackle through something and throw a true charged in a situation I shouldn’t be able too but can get it off anyway
PREACH. 4U is peak monster hunter. World ruined GS and LS.
I know this is an old video, but I am a new player who just got through all of base world with 2 other friends and while the cc felt fine through most of it, as soon as I got to iceborne, I noticed the MESS of design that is the fact that you are supposed to tenderize before being able to do pretty much any damage while also making all the new mobs super fast and reducing all forms of cc you'd use in the base game. It felt like the entire game was made insuferably frustrating and more boring just to force me to use a tool that I already had a mentality of "I need to learn this tool jsut ot have it, even though I don't have to" before. What a mess of a decision, and having 99% of comments online be copium sniffing "no, the game is perfect you're just bad, git gud" stuff is nothing but toxic.
The cc didn't ruin iceborn for me, although the combination of forced tenderization, faster monsters, insane healthpools and frustratingly un-stoppable mobs that constantly cc you back almost made me quit the franchise forever. Had I not had the cool head to realize that this might just be one wall and I need to push through and the entire game/franchise may not be like this, I'd prlly left MH forever at barioth.
Cue all the answers to this comment being like "no, you're just bad, git gud"
Finally, someone who gets it that isnt blinded by World being there first game and thinking its flawless
@@drxavier1870 World is also my first MH game and the moment I set foot in iceborne i said "this feels extremely poor, design wise". Had pretty pleasant experience in base world while iceborne felt so bad, still does. The large increase in HP, mandatory tenderizing, having to wallbang to get the damage in, the fact monsters are so fast that if you play slow weapon (I play CB) you have to wait for an opening which at times takes extremely long (which ties into poor design of massive HP and mandatory tenderizing) unless you create that opening with wallbang or do a 1 attack punish (at most 2) after you learn the moveset of the enemy. Now, learning moveset on your first attempt is not gonna happen, which is normal, so you aren't getting a lot of punishes, and the ones you do get result in very minimal damage overall (taking the entire HP into account, monster speed and their ability to stun you frequently since you don't know their moveset on your first attempt, and even few attempts after that). The amount of times I've said "Can I play the game please?" while going through iceborne is absurd. I don't think I've said that so many times in my 25 years of gaming, that's how poorly designed iceborne is in my opinion. As the good person above said, many might come and say "git gud" but that's just a phrase everyone throws nowadays. Played harder games than this, nothing wrong with not being good as a new player in the game, problem is when not being good in the game as a new player is tied to game being unfair with poor design (stunned into cart because on the same move that killed you, monster attacked after 2 seconds the first time, but second time it attacked after 4, since you decided to wait the full duration of getting up) and not your skill. The problem isn't getting gud, you get good by playing more and learning, problem is if gameplay itself isn't good/doesn't feel good, which is how iceborne feels. Apparently, to capcom, increasing the difficulty means this: Make monster extremely fast, give it large HP and make it attack non stop for 1-2 minutes. Again, you will find openings in those monsters after you have learned their moveset, but it's not a good design if only openings you find that aren't 1 attack punish for 50-100 damage on a 20k or more HP come after you have fought them enough to learn entire moveset. That's just poor design. They just made everything so fast/aggressive/relentless/tanky just because they screwed up and introduced new mechanics game didn't need in the first place (clutch claw/tenderizing). You can make the game harder without resorting to cheap and bad mechanics. So I am forced to wallbang a monster for big opening to do damage. Okay. I wallbang a monster, get my big damage in. Capcom's answer to this as a "balance" counterplay? Monster is now enraged for 45-60 seconds, where it's faster and more aggressive. That to me is the most lazy and uninspired design ever. Forcing me to use something that shouldn't have been in the game and I find not fun and good to use just because they didn't know how to make the game difficult in a proper way so they resorted to most bland option, make them extremely fast and tanky. Majority of iceborne monsters don't feel good to fight. They are just sponges that move at lightning speed and force you to use bad and unfun mechanics they added for god knows which reason. Anyway, base world was okay for the most part, iceborne is just a boring pushover with nothing really interesting in it.
@@BleedingMem0ry ok i disagree on the fight part theres some really fun monsters in World but yeah Clutch Claw is stupid because its forced but also meta. Agitator LvL is bassically manditory because the Monster is always enraged or on the floor.
Im glad you see the issues though, most people just say Skill Issue or treat Iceborne like its the second coming of Jesus and perfection
And most people shit on Wirebugs in Rise despite the Clutch Claw being way more centralizing and punishing NOT to use
@@drxavier1870 Yeah, there were a few fun fights. Problem is if there are 200 monsters in the game but only 5 of them are fun and the remaining 195 are dull, boring and annoying because they are practically the same, and the only difference between them is their size. Nothing is flawless in this world, if people treat this expansion as flawless they actually need to play more games instead of only playing this one. This is among most flawed games ever made, so I find it funny really that people call it flawless, I guess they don't know better and never played a game with really good design choices. Yeah, going in without agitator is just losing damage because of reasons you mentioned, absolutely correct. It's forced on the player, much like the poor design choice that is the clutch claw. Nice to see someone understands things and can point out the horrible decisions capcom made with iceborne.
Oh man, I am so sorry about the hate brigade that’s come your way. Had no idea it was going to be THIS bad. So much for react streamers benefitting the OG creator, eh? I wouldn’t blame you if you just went full recluse for like a month
Ah yes the clutch claw, loved not having a shortcut to 1 tenderize as IG
If you like the clutch claw, imagine playing in a solo hunt, without rocksteady or temporal mantle. Still like it?
Didn't think so.
its fine, its easy as hell to tenderize and wallbang. you dont even need to stagger the monster, just learn the attacks thats it
I never really thought nothing of the clutch claw in general. It was a mechanic that was added and it was up to you if you wanted to use it. Thats how I saw it and still feel like to this day. Now if you do want to say something that felt forced upon the player just go to rise. Depending on some weapons, about 20-30 percent of the weapons kit is attached to silkbug moves. Its kinda what truned me off to the game personally. Im probably one of the few who have that viewpoint of the wirebug mechanic, but oh well. Good video as always.
looks like someone forgot to farm mantles~
Three times I've played through Iceborne and three times I never bothered with tenderizing (maybe I should on a few monsters with harder to reach weak zones, but frankly, the vast majority of monsters have weak zones which are perfectly accessible). I only consistently use clutch claw for wall bangs and on that I agree it's annoying to sometimes grab a monster's forelimb instead of the head (the chances of which can be reduced drastically by simply aiming and timing your grab better), but that's hardly anything which "ruins" such a good game. And without tenderizing, you can still defeat the Iceborne monsters in a reasonable amount of time (around 15 minutes for most, sometimes 20+ for elders and such, but almost never more than 25).
I have to say, I think it's weird to be praising wirebugs as being so well balanced and integrated (at least, I definitely think your in the minority opinion on that one) when they only made Rise more easy and sloppy thanks to wirefall (sloppy because you don't have to play as solid; you can get hit, wirefall, chug, go back in). To try and compensate for all of the crazy movement options hunters have with the wirebug, Sunbreak gave many of the upper tier monsters new hard tracking attacks which are kind of cheap and sometimes odd looking. Sunbreak also raised the damage done by monsters as all G Ranks do, but unless a monster can one shot you, wirefall is still a get out of jail free card for the most part. Those aforementioned tracking attacks and new counters for various weapons also encourage you to use a parry-based playstyle in order to kill monsters faster thanks to fewer natural openings. There is also the palamutes and how they again change combat to make things easier (free fast movement with no stamina worries, easy sharpening, etc.). There are issues with Rise/Sunbreak (and I like Sunbreak, but I think Iceborne is the better top to bottom package for sure, and going back to play through all of World/Iceborne again while still playing through Sunbreak confirmed that without a shadow of a doubt) that many others have with it which you overlooked while concluding that you think Sunbreak is objectively the overall better game.
When it comes to my MonHun background, I started with 3U and have G-Rank soloed that game, 4U, GU, Iceborne, and now Sunbreak. I'm glad I started with 3U because (small rant incoming) 4U superfans are the worst (and I mean no disrespect to anyone whose favorite is 4U but isn't a snob about the other games) with the way they hold up that game as near perfect (and I like 4U, but it has its own love or hate quirks just the same as any other Monster Hunter) but tend to nitpick every other game in the series as falling short because of one mechanic or unbalanced element that supposedly ruins the game by comparison. At least FU superfans don't deny the bad hitboxes in that one even if they feel like it's the only true hardcore Monster Hunter game. And fans brought in by World who don't like the older games are the most looked down upon by many MonHun vets anyhow (sometimes unfairly, since only the ones who dismiss the older games outright because of lesser graphics, loading zones, or not having the same QoL improvements deserve our scorn; and the vets who happen to love Rise but assume that anyone who has issues with it is a clueless World noob, well, you guys are deluding yourselves). None of the games are free of controversial or somewhat broken elements. None of them. And in a way, that's what gives each of them their own unique identity.
commenting to boost this because I couldn't agree more with it. I really only tenderized people like fatalis, alatreon and safi'jiva. The other times I was tenderizing I was just gap closing
So as a solo casual player, I can play most of the main content in Iceborne without clutch claw without feeling like I'm playing the game wrongly? Just asking as a new player because all of this is really confusing and making me not want to play Iceborne and just stick to the base game.
@@Qladstone no , clutch claw is pretty much needed for all iceborne hunts. Compared to base world the monsters hp is quadrupled with higher armor to counteract the clutch slamming and tenderizing.
@@Qladstone so ridiculous that videos like this turn new players away from an amazing expansion in Iceborne. It's a thing that, unless you're used to it not being in the game, is easily integrated into your play style. Not to mention it is an absolutely miniscule negative (if you consider it a negative) compared to the pros of how good Iceborne is in every other aspect. @HeavyWings making a mountain out of a molehill for content and "hardcore" player pandering.
@@Qladstone if you are new to mh game, no need to care about those cryings from mh community, do what you want. You can see it by your own eyes even with those "cc is this and is that", it doesn't change the fact that MHW:I is one of the best mh games and yes it is better than Rise in every aspects. No one is gonna judge how you play the game, just enjoy your hunt!
Asmon just watched this live and watch out, the Rise haters are gonna bomb yo ass lmao
I want to comment on the wirebug chapter, but first I'll say I play Iceborne with the ICE mod, and it solves the clutch claw/clagger issues. Onto wirebugs: I agree with everything you said, HOWEVER, I don't think the wirebug is comparable to the clutch claw. The clutch claw is a massive inconvenience on top of solid MH gameplay (restored by the ICE mod). On the other hand, the wirebug is the feature that Sunbreak is designed around. Like you said, you either like it or you realize Sunbreak may not be for you, but you cannot even try to ignore the feature.
Why would you want to ignore wirebugs? I think they very negatively the flow of combat. Forget about positioning, just stand still and counter, every weapon can. What attack should you prioritize at this point in the fight? Almost always wirebug. Do you play charge blade? Then forget about any attack other than SAED. I'm not exaggerating, just counter to max phials and let it rip over, and over, and over. Don't even worry about getting hit. In fact, if you watch some speedruns, it's actually optimal to SAED, get hit, wirebug recover, counter, SAED. This is related to the other huge issue: monsters. I won't get into this since it's a whole other topic, but, for charge blade specifically, many monsters move so fast that when you commit to an SAED you are agreeing to get hit. The solution to fast monsters is also wirebug related: the pizza cutter. Some people like it, but I find it very boring. Stand still, bzzzzz, wirebug shield, bzzzzz, repeat. In both playstyles, charge blade boils down to standing still and spamming wirebug skills. Notice that I never mentioned sword mode or guard points.
10:40 Iceborne director: "Let's introduce the tenderizing mechanic".
Developer #1: "But the monsters will get obliterated. It will break the game".
Iceborne director: "Then, let's triple the health of the monsters, lower their hitzones and nerf WEX".
Developer #2: "But then, the players are kind of compelled to tenderize all the time. Maybe we should test it to see if it is bearable. Maybe it would be simpler to just keep the wallbangs and the clutch attacks on monsters without complicating the gameplay with this tenderizing business".
Iceborne director: "No need, I can't be wrong. And you know what? It gave me an idea. The Safi'jiiva siege will be centered around tenterizing and Safi'jiiva will even be able to untenderize!".
Fanbase hating the tenderizing mechanic, asking for it to be scrapped and the game rebalanced for a whole year.
Iceborne director: "No, I am right and you are wrong. I will throw you a bone and double the tenderizing time and give Shaver Jewel (not lv1 or lv2, but lv3) for light weapons, but that's all".
Iceborne director leaves Capcom to the surprise of no one.
@@wits_end. And that's not his only bad idea, just his worst. He put a 0.7 multiplier to the elemental damages of IG and Lance as, in his mind, they were too OP. Meaning against monsters with bad hitzones and great elmzones such as Stygian Zinogre or Ebony Odogaron, these weapons are screwed compared to the others except GS. He nerfed AED and SEAD, meaning it is not uncommon for the monsters to not stagge (especially if you didn't tenderize!) and to punish you as a result right after. He nerfed Maximum Might in a way the skill is absolutely useless instead of simply decreasing the value. He also introduced crowns for endemic lifes (fortunately there is no achievement tied to them).
MHWI is my favorite MH along with MH4U thanks of everything else: maps, monsters, investigation system, events, I much prefer the Guiding Lands as an endgame to the Guild Quests of MH4U or the Anomaly Quests of Sunbreak. But Iceborne director made sure it would never be a perfect MH. I am glad he is no longer part of the MH team so he doesn't get to tarnish MH6 gameplay as well, although I fear something even worse may happen with this game coughcoughmicrotransactionscough.
PREACH BROTHER
I just recently starting going back to Worldborn, but you don't have to sheath to use the clutch claw. Why did Heavy always say you have to sheath? Did I miss something?
I believe that only a certain weapon or two have that ability. Probably the SS. Play with other weapons and see for yourself.
@@kukukachu will do. I played mostly LS and HBG, there this was an option.
@@pascal2666 All weapons can use slinger and claw while unsheathed. However, Insect Glaive, Lance, and the ranged weapons need to click in the right circle pad (on Console) to swap between normal aim mode (or in the case of lance, claw counter mode) to slinger/claw aim mode.
@@Andrew-hz5zc yea that is what I remember. I played enough Worldborn that I can't tell what actions to press, I just do it without thinking :( but I felt like sheathing is something I rarely do before clawing. Anyhow, playing some hours Worldborn and then Risebreak gave me some conclusions Heavy was pointing out. Even though I like the claw combat wise, I don't like it being mandatory to progress in a decent pace. In contrast, I started learning Lance today in Risebreak and immediately liked the switchskills and their integration. A difference in feel like day and night.
Even as a Lance main (at least in world/Iceborn/Subreak) with one of the better iterations of the clunkclaw... i feeld often interupted in my gameplay, because i had to tenderice a part and/or wallbang the monster to keep my damage up. Playng with out doubles or (sometimes) tripples my clear times. so it is realy invasiv and mandatory for that.
In MHGU for me the gimmicks are also mandatory and invasiv in the gameplay, a specialy with the evade options you have (Valor stance, Adept style, absolut readynes/evasion) ... but you can at least pick your poison and mix and match your favorit Style wit some Hunter Arts to fit your own playstyle.
My opinion is that Rise did this at best. With out some special pinattacks, and secret locations to get a lore item... there is not much that demands you to use Wirebugs and i know a lot people that play the majority of the game ignoring wirebugs and silkbindes and doing just well with that. i can not say the same thing about the clutchclaw. :/
Ya some tenderize attacks are slow and suck for tenderizing but clutch claw honestly made the game more fun in my opinion because who doesnt wanna grapple on to a monster and beat its hide or smash it into a wall. I like new additions like the clutch claw because its a new way to play and keeps the series interesting
I wouldn't say the Clutch Claw itself ruined Iceborne so much as the whole "Wanting players to use your new gimmick to the point fights are designed to try and punish people who don't" did. I mean, remember, when Capcom got tired of people NOT using multiplayer in base World (due to a combination of how poorly handled the multiplayer scaling was for the monsters as well as a lot of people being carried and thus sucking at a point where they really should know how to play the game at least competently), they began introducing monsters that were designed around being "impossible to beat alone".
The slinger (provided that you use dragon, bomb, or piercing pods) can stop wyverns that are flying from flying. It works very good if you hit them in the head, but each time you hit you'll need to wait for them to get through a stun animation before hitting them with the next pod.
Claggering is very annoying, but aren't the only time you can stun monsters for attacks. If you claw onto their head, then perform a claw attack onto their head, it'll stagger them long enough to perform an attack.
I got MHW in April ‘19 and put 300+ hours into it before Iceborne was released that September. I have only 45 hours in Iceborne, and it’s not because the game had played out. It’s because the clutch claw. It was a horrible idea implemented horribly.
Great video btw! Watched your Long Sword is OP video earlier today and now this. Subbed.
I really like the 'claw, I just think its fun. World was my first MonHun game and I fell in love with riding the monsters and bringing them to the ground for the team. When the Claw was released it just felt like they made a combat update just for me. Riding was my favorite part of the game, but it felt clunky and random, and completely threw off the pace of a fight as the Mon ran around the arena trying to shake you off. Claw feels like a response to that, giving a clear ruleset for when it can be used and when to expect it, and just overall speeding up the process of acquainting the monster with the dirt.
I agree with you that its importance in iceborn is overcentralized, and that it can be buggy. However I also think it overall adds a enjoyable new moveset into the game that I find really fun. Here are just some of my favorites:
On SnS you can because a absolute menace, cycling between wallbangs when not enraged and shock/pitfall traps when enraged to keep the monster almost completely out of the game, all while easily setting up sunder points for your team or yourself because of the easy access to the mantles.
HBG has such a long sunder animation that you can use it to ride a monster between area's, setting up the sunder point for the next fight. One of my friends has a HBG build that specifically monopolizes on the claw and mantles by building into increasing that free damage as much as possible.
I also love lance, but I don't feel I need to explain that one.
Are these the best builds for these weapons? No, but to me they are a lot of fun and wouldn't be possible without the claw.
How did sunbreak make riding optional? Did i miss something? im playing and still get annoyed big time everytime i have to stop my combat (or waste my weapon buffs for that matter) just so i have to do a lenghty 3-wall-bang ride
Previously if you didn't want to ride, you would have to not attack the monster for like 7 seconds, massive pace breaker.
They added a setting that makes it so attacking doesn't trigger the ride, so you can keep wacking on the monster and they'll return to normal. You can also set Followers to ride for you if you don't want to.
@@HeavyWings that's good news! I play with my trusted hunting group, and I already made clear I don't want to ride. That option is super sweet, thanks
I'm playing MH since the PS2. And even though I liked World and played it a whole lot, as soon as I saw Iceborne and it's mandatory gimmick, I stopped, didn't even buy Iceborne and returned to 4U and GenU. Now I'm playing through Iceborne for the first time and I still hate the clutch claw. Such a stupid implementation.
Monster Hunter suffers from a problem where it's a series that wants to be incredibly creative, change itself in new ways in new iterations, and increase player interaction in its fights.
While it wants to do this, there is a vocal minority of the playerbase that just wants to play the same game it fell in love with at [insert previous title that is favorite here.]
So anything that changes the gameplay flow or does anything to disrupt that desired outcome is the worst thing in the world that ruins a game.
If it sounds incredibly dramatic, it's because it is.
I don't have an issue with someone disliking something. I don't have an issue with someone expressing their own opinions in a way that doesn't attempt to pass them off as hard facts.
But we all have to admit it's pretty ridiculous when someone claims the most sold and most well reviewed expansion of the most sold and well reviewed base game in the ENTIRE series is RUINED because of a mechanic he doesn't like, primarily because it makes him not able to fight monsters like how he could before.
To put this into perspective, I don't have a favorable opinion of the new God of War. I regret spending 70 dollars on it, and if there is a third entry in the rebooted franchise I will be avoiding it until it hits the bargain bin, if not entirely.
That said, I would never make a video or headline claiming Santa Monica "ruined" God of War. I would never declare that the gripes with the game I know are personal to me "ruined" the fastest selling Sony first party title and a game millions of people are currently enjoying and having an amazing time with.
Coming back to Monster Hunter, the series moving to PC creates a middle ground situation where everyone can win, at least everyone that plays the game on PC.
Capcom can continue innovating, increasing player interaction in fights, (charging for things that should have been added to event quests,) and increasing the exposure, and user base of the franchise.
Meanwhile, people upset with those changes can use mods to revert the game mechanically back to whichever Monster Hunter title they believe the series shouldn't have moved on from.
This will be extremely important for whatever the next iteration in the series is, as I have no doubt some members of the vocal minority will find some change that has utterly ruined, decimated, and annihilated the playability of the game.
haha let me TLDR that... old hunter quit bitching and just go back to your emulators.
I dont disagree with alot of the points you raised about the clutch claw and its implementation especially in comparison to SunRise but as some who played exclusively solo before world I was more used to the exagerated health pools and thus I find your conclusion a bit hyperbolic and thought of it more like you consider the slinger in the world section, it just felt optional to me. The large health pool just adds to the challenge in my opinion but ill grant that my experience with it as an insect glaive main meant I was more easily able to intergrate tenderising and wall banging into my flow of attacks then say long sword users, which was the most popular weapon at the time. For players like yourself I can only express sympathy that it did ruin your experience with Iceborne but I found the expansion very enjoyable although I did find the availability of wall bangs quite tiresome especially by the endgame after seeing it and doing it hundreds of times and theyre much better implemented in sunbreak with the marionette spiders.
I've listened to a lot of people complain about clutch claw, and while I understand why people don't like it - I seem to like it almost always for the reason people dislike it. I love the feeling of getting a wallbang or a tenderize off while the monster is up and doing an attack that leaves that part open, but you really can get away with doing it during exhausts and downs. It seems like I'm in the minority for it, but I enjoy having the clutch claw far more than base World.
And for the last bit of the video, I disagree with your discouragement on devs adding drastic changes. I think that once they have a solid base-combat it's great for them to experiment with some big changes and additions. It lets them know what to do in future installments/updates and allows each game to feel at least a good bit different from the last. And I'd really just rather have weird/bad mechanics than something completely run-of-the-mill.
I do really agree with the point you and a lot of others have made: that it needs to be more involved with a wider spectrum of the weapons. Part of why I like the claw so much is probably because the weapons I've played the most use it alongside DB and HH getting some level of innate Mind's Eye.
As a casual player who enjoys a good challenge, I personally really enjoyed the clutch claw and the difficulty spike of master rank. I started playing the game only recently and didn’t experience the game without the clutch claw, so maybe a big part of my love for it is not knowing what the game would be like without it. Regardless I think saying it ruined the game is a stretch, especially since the length of hunts in iceborne felt refreshing since only in early low rank did I ever feel like hunts were long enough.
I played base world on ps4 on release only to now try iceborne. I'm very mixed on it and clutch claw is one of the reasons why.
It felt very clunky to use, it was also like chores for your weapon. It really kills the pace of a fight with the only fun thing about it being the wall banging imo.
Base World is honestly one of my favorite games of all time and tbh I could do without the expansion.
I was expecting a video of someone crying about a game mechanic but I was incredibly surprised to watch a well written, well spoken and well thought out video. You absolutely in depth analyzed every aspect of the clutch claw and focused on all parts of it at a pretty quick pace but slow enough to keep me watching and 22 mins went by in a flash.
Having said that I disagree. You are 100% correct and made very valid points. The clutch claw seems if you ask me that the devs implemented it very poorly. Great idea but as you stated inconsistent the way the monsters moved. With the swelling HP pools it's absolutely necessary. However as a MH veteran for years who has played since the first game I appreciate how much better combat has gotten. I loved the clutch claw. I recognize its flaws and you aren't wrong with your criticisms.
I just personally enjoyed the versatility it brought to World and the MH series. Combat felt faster and more dynamic with it. I guess I just got used to it so fast it became second nature. It seems as if you just personally didn't like it because of how much you enjoyed other MH games. I however was the opposite while I loved the older games as well I always have wanted the series to evolve more beyond the slow clunky combat. So yes excellent video but I don't think it ruined MHW or Iceborne.
That's just my opinion though.
Most of the complaints I see are about the tenderizing aspect, but my problem was always the wall bang. I could never get it to work right, and it felt like such a silly way to damage a monster anyway.
Yeah some walls don't actually count as walls and the monster slides off. It's one of those things that happens infrequently but enough to be really annoying, and it still happens in Rise too.
@@HeavyWings at least in Rise some walls are more clear than the ones from MHW.
I always thought wall bangs felt better than the mounting mechanic. Quicker and requires paying attention to your surroundings and some careful planning. It was a little wonky at times, but if they didn't have tenderizing I bet they could make wall bangs feel more consistent.
The alatreon fight sucks, I and my friends would miss almost every wall bang, may be a skill issue but it's still frustrating seeing him running into the wall for 5 seconds and doesn't count it as wallbang
replaying worldborne rn after playing risebreak and the clutch claw is just so annoying man...
You're just bad lmao
@@MrTweedle fair enough lmao
bro accepted it lmao ye i also didnt like it at first but after i got the hang of it its super fun im not sure how good u are at clutch clawing but it gets pretty fun when u understand it fully@@sylnz97
@@sylnz97 no goat u were right
Having played world and ice born several times, i never felt the clutch claw was forced upon me, and i rarely used it in iceborn, despite this my hunt times barely increased, and i thknk the reason for that is because by the time you get to the expantoon of the game, you are good enough at whatever weapon you are using that the health increace dosent matter, as well as this, i never really noticed this 'clagger' effect, and when it did happen i never really thought it was too jarring or disruptive, if anything i was glad the monster was taking a break from jumping around all the time, and the wall bang always felt so cool when you could get it off, giving a great oppertuniry to whale on the monsyer while it was down, to conclude i doont think the clutch claw was a bad addition at all, and much like the slinger, it caan be mostly ignored if you dont like it, but gives a nice buff if you do
You gain way to much from using it more damage easier part breaks more monster down time
Btw they nerfed so many hitzones on monsters in icebourne even further making ppl relay o. The clutch claw
They can remove the silk bind attacks, idc about that, but please do not take away my wirebugs in general.
The movement in Rise is the most fun I've ever had in MH.
If we can get a combo between scout flies and wirebugs, it'd be awesome.
When i saw the title of this video i immediately thought that author is delusional, but after watching it i've completely changed my opinion and almost fully agree with the author.
One mention about the "imbalance" between slow and fast weapons when tenderising?
Fast weapons need to clutch and tenderise the same spot twice before the damage gets applied, which means more setup if you want to do the wall ram, whereas heavy weapons can do the ram in two clutches. However the light weapons are guaranteed to drop a slinger ammo when tenderising, so they result in more resources.
That issue was fixed with Clutch Claw Boost decoration
I agree with you in regards to the clutch club being a poorly implemented mechanic. I did find it interesting though that you called rise a more difficult game than world as I find rise to be much easier, although I can't really say why
For me, it's how the combat in Rise is structured, and there's several layers as to why.
Wyvern riding is far more broken and crazy than mounting ever was at just a base level. Just straight up nothing I like about it apart from "oo monster shinies". You can output thousands of damage to a monster with proper wyvern riding. Even with Rise's inflated monster healthpools (to compensate for power creep) you get some amazing damage on a monster, a basically guaranteed KO/down and in multi-monster hunters you essentially can cut down both your targets HP by a 1/3 just by riding and attacking them with each other.
Then you look at the weapon movesets. Rise weapons all have counters or "oh fuck get me out" buttons, or just straight up moveset-enhancements (Counter Morph Slash for Charge Blade straight up gives you a GP at the start of the axe-sword move so it straight up removes one of the weapons weakpoints). HBG for god sakes as a ranged weapon now has a counter.
Even though combat was sped up and altered to adjust to the hunters new tools, we've been power creeped such that we get way more options and have less reliance on timing and positioning now, it's more about how unga bunga you can go and use counters to cover your ass. The only way to make shit hard was to tune Sunbreaks monsters starting at mid-late game to do 1 shots, and that's really _only_ if you're not collecting any of those stupid spiribirds, and even that isn't enough sometimes unless it's a truly unblockable attack (hence why so many attacks have become multi-hit to punish shield weapons and the counter skills).
Then there's obviously wirefall which means you're recovering faster and staying in actual combat longer instead of being fully punished and having to choose when to get up for i-frames. Read the monster wrong and ate shit? Welp I'll just wirefall and heal up quickly.
There's a million other things I could go on about but don't want to bother doing for a single youtube comment. What I will say though is I can't take anyone seriously that considers Rise/SB combat harder than any previous game in the series. That's harsh, but just all the new shiny tools that hunters were given in Rise/SB absolute catapulted them into OP territory. It doesn't mean the game can't be hard in it's own way or that people aren't allowed to cart or have trouble.
But trying to be objective, it's the easiest MH.
Sunbreak monsters get more chances to pull off their moves because they got more health and don't spend 60% of the fight stunned.
Its easier to avoid getting hit because Sunbreak hunters also have the best mobility and defensive options ever, but it's still fairer to the monsters than Iceborne was. It harks back to FU's balance by bilateral absurdity times.
@@Tempestuu rise turned great wraggi into a wmd
@@Tempestuu tbf, most of base mhw is basic af
the clutch claw is what probably made it easier
The asmongold clowns in the comments are funny. 99% of them are skill issue with no argument or points afterwards. There is criticism then there is fair criticism. How sad his audience cant make a coherent argument.
They are no different than people that shape their views to fit with their favorite celebrities.
They're just idolizers worshipping another figure.
I love that world doesn't rely on gimmicks.
I think the issue is more with the triple health of iceborne vs World