I almost commented this at the beginning but im glad I waited until the end. Ive tried every consumer isolation material and conducted my own tests using sonarworks. I found that different materials had subtle effects on the frequency response but did help to reduce vibrations through the desk/stands they sit on. Room treatment makes the biggest difference
As well as sine sweeps you should set up stereo mics and record a reference track from your mix position. I guarantee you will hear a difference between each setup. I did this because I couldn't be sure if the $$$ I spent on iso was biasing my perception. I was thrilled when the audio recording confirmed better clarity - something you won't get from simple sweeps or pink noise.
@@panorama_mastering did this vid ever come out? currently considering changing a desk and considering if I should use stands or build shelves into the desk for speakers and try some kind of decoupling...
I am loving this shift in your content. I always have found your mastering techniques and explanations on how things work super helpful and am glad you're starting to move into how audio interacts with us/our environment in general.
Glad you enjoy it! A couple more on this topic to come over the coming months; and MUCH MUCH more to come towards the end of the year regarding a new build ;)
Yep I’ve been down this rabbit hole myself! Super interested to see what kind of speaker stands you build. Nicely done video, also appreciate the different graphs you use to show the slight difference before and after. I agree in the end room nodes and type of speaker stand seem to have the most effect especially in the low end range and of course speaker size. Although I still bought into the hype and I am using Iso acoustic pucks under my Kali IN8s. I went down the speaker stand rabbit hole almost built a couple designs myself, started with cinder blocks then decided on a pair of traditional style speaker stands that I could fill with sand and that had a larger platform size for the footprint of the IN8s. Anchor stands seem pretty legit but a little out of my budget so I decided on traditional speaker stands with sand. They still resonate when you tap them. I also have built bass traps from acoustic insider Jesco’s design (I need to build a couple more) and have a few mid range traps from music city acoustics along the walls. It’s a never ending rabbit hole my friend! Can’t wait to see your next video on this journey, especially the speaker stand build! Thanks for making this video.
Thanks for watching!!! Yes; "slight" differences; What I"m excited though at the end of this series is to show the before graph against the final graph; because so far we've improved the +/- of the low end 0-350hz +/-2dB (4dB total) from leveraging SBIR and the sylomer;
what you should explore is adding weight i currently have a setup like this: speaker spikes (to couple the speakers to as much weight as possible, thats also the reason why the foam between slaps is optional) 40x40cm 10kg concrete slap (optional foam or sylomer) 40x40cm 10kg concrete slap (optional foam or sylomer) 40x40cm 10kg concrete slap 10cm foam or sylomer 40x40cm 10kg concrete slap stand this is the best isolation i heared so far... bass noticably tightens up and seems to go lower we have a very old wood floor, you hear every step but this isolation tames things very noticably down, bass in the floor (which you can sense with your feet..) is not entirely gone but like -70-90%
I think the extra weight comes from mdf blocks? Edit: nevermind, I rewatched and saw that you calibrated the scale with blocks on, it was sped up so I didn't catch it 😅
Do you hear any difference with the Sylomer pads vs without them? (like, less distortion because the speakers don't resonate the table, and things like this)
This was beyond interesting. And I really appreciate you being pedantic about precision. After all, this is physics at its best. Congrats and looking forward for your next video!
Great video. I think your process was spot on. I've recently gone through the same process with Sylomer to isolate an entire room inside a room. Perhaps many speaker isolation products are snake oil. Regardless, as you well know, the spring needs to be relative to the weight it is supporting. Great stuff!
Nice work! How do you manage weight distribution when floating an entire room; as the structural boundary walls will spread a greater load of weight across the floor from it's point of contact?
@@panorama_mastering The wall bottom plates have Sylomer under them at each stud location. The studs also take the load of the ceiling joists above. The floor is timber due to weigh limit constraints (not enough mass for isolation of lowest audible frequencies) and was designed to be independent of the main structure, although sealed to it and the perimeter. During construction I was concerned about the potential amount of movement of the floor at the perimeter.I think my theoretical load calculations for the Sylomer at the perimeter of the floor needed to be different for those away from the walls, due to the fact that floor loading is spread over less points of contact at the perimeter. Consequently I made a rash decision to fix the perimeter of the floor to the wall framing. Nonetheless, isolation testing I've conducted so far, albeit rudimentary, seems to align with theoretical calculations I had made prior to construction. I'm not an acoustician!!
I love it. Great stuff as usual. My question is this: if products like iso acoustics and the likes are useful for situations where the stand or the table are less than ideal - would building stands and keeping the isoacoustics be the same result as building the "super stands" you're aiming towards? Totally relevant for me as I have the same speakers, isoacoustics stands and am literally in the process of designing a new desk as well as stands! 😅 🤘 You're a legend mate.
Good question; and too long winded to answer here; the speaker stand video (Which is now postponed due to making the best damn video on it I can) I promise it'll be worth the wait; just trying to get through quite a bit here;
How accurate can it be if the scales aren’t calibrated, also weight distribution is different from nominal weight. The 500g tells you that, for the nominal weight use a single scale for the speaker
Finally! Im right there too😅. I gotta say that its the way i see a problem and the solution. More of a fun thing. Every time i get into these situations i learn a lot. So for me its a way of always being curious and learn. Trying to strive for best solution possible
I use spring style iso feet. I removed four of seven springs. My speakers have completely optimized. There is no looking anywhere else for me. Endgame feet!
Not an expert on this level, so i won’t start correcting but as deep as my rabbit whole went, I can tell that this wasn’t well researched nor in any form scientific. Those clips from people who claim to have great knowledge but don’t make me shy away from RUclips. In fact I suggest to correct this video and research further (transmissibility curves for example). Please don’t see this as an assault, it should be a motivation for better content. Have a great day
Hey Schall; always happy for feedback; what aspects of the video could have been better researched? This was mainly documenting my experience and journey on the topic; so I know there may have been things I missed;
@@panorama_mastering i don't have the time nor the motivation to point out every flaw. As mentioned you should research "transmissibility curves" to get a better understanding of what you are talking about. No one wants to isolate a speaker from their room.. it's about reducing mechanical vibration that are coming from (and to) the speaker, wich comes with a down side, tho by doing this in the right way you will get a way better performance. Also sylomer is not the best and even northward knows..
@@schallfarben5614 I put these video's together to explore concepts and I'm happy to be wrong; and learn from them; so if you're happy to have the time to leave a comment/critique for motivation, I'd be muchly appreciative of you sharing any summary of the information you have on hand to point our your goal for speaker isolation, how reducing mechanical vibration or transmission helps achieve that and it's relevant to better translation of the speakers?
![Decoupling a speaker from the floor. The Credo Audio "isolation base" [isolation vs. spikes]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/5ihzvD3urc4/mqdefault.jpg)
I almost commented this at the beginning but im glad I waited until the end. Ive tried every consumer isolation material and conducted my own tests using sonarworks. I found that different materials had subtle effects on the frequency response but did help to reduce vibrations through the desk/stands they sit on. Room treatment makes the biggest difference
As well as sine sweeps you should set up stereo mics and record a reference track from your mix position. I guarantee you will hear a difference between each setup. I did this because I couldn't be sure if the $$$ I spent on iso was biasing my perception. I was thrilled when the audio recording confirmed better clarity - something you won't get from simple sweeps or pink noise.
Oooo... Interesting; I don't know how I feel about this!
I love the engineering approach to the problem 👍 And the use of well-documented construction materials
Thanks mate!! More to come!!
Super interesting video. Really looking forward to your upcoming speaker stand video.
Coming soon!
@@panorama_mastering did this vid ever come out? currently considering changing a desk and considering if I should use stands or build shelves into the desk for speakers and try some kind of decoupling...
@@PsychotropicAeonian I literally have the stands all welded up, and ready to paint... just need to get around to it ... :P
I am loving this shift in your content. I always have found your mastering techniques and explanations on how things work super helpful and am glad you're starting to move into how audio interacts with us/our environment in general.
Glad you enjoy it! A couple more on this topic to come over the coming months; and MUCH MUCH more to come towards the end of the year regarding a new build ;)
@@panorama_mastering I'm exited :). You're the no bullshit hero in this industry that we don't deserve but need
Yep I’ve been down this rabbit hole myself! Super interested to see what kind of speaker stands you build. Nicely done video, also appreciate the different graphs you use to show the slight difference before and after.
I agree in the end room nodes and type of speaker stand seem to have the most effect especially in the low end range and of course speaker size. Although I still bought into the hype and I am using Iso acoustic pucks under my Kali IN8s.
I went down the speaker stand rabbit hole almost built a couple designs myself, started with cinder blocks then decided on a pair of traditional style speaker stands that I could fill with sand and that had a larger platform size for the footprint of the IN8s. Anchor stands seem pretty legit but a little out of my budget so I decided on traditional speaker stands with sand. They still resonate when you tap them.
I also have built bass traps from acoustic insider Jesco’s design (I need to build a couple more) and have a few mid range traps from music city acoustics along the walls. It’s a never ending rabbit hole my friend! Can’t wait to see your next video on this journey, especially the speaker stand build! Thanks for making this video.
Thanks for watching!!!
Yes; "slight" differences; What I"m excited though at the end of this series is to show the before graph against the final graph; because so far we've improved the +/- of the low end 0-350hz +/-2dB (4dB total) from leveraging SBIR and the sylomer;
what you should explore is adding weight
i currently have a setup like this:
speaker
spikes (to couple the speakers to as much weight as possible, thats also the reason why the foam between slaps is optional)
40x40cm 10kg concrete slap
(optional foam or sylomer)
40x40cm 10kg concrete slap
(optional foam or sylomer)
40x40cm 10kg concrete slap
10cm foam or sylomer
40x40cm 10kg concrete slap
stand
this is the best isolation i heared so far... bass noticably tightens up and seems to go lower
we have a very old wood floor, you hear every step but this isolation tames things very noticably down, bass in the floor (which you can sense with your feet..) is not entirely gone but like -70-90%
I think the extra weight comes from mdf blocks? Edit: nevermind, I rewatched and saw that you calibrated the scale with blocks on, it was sped up so I didn't catch it 😅
So do the sub isolations work? so neighbors don't hear your bass.
Do you hear any difference with the Sylomer pads vs without them? (like, less distortion because the speakers don't resonate the table, and things like this)
Would be very interesting to see the impulse graphs to see if there's any difference in the early relfections. Great video mate :)
Great suggestion! More videos to come on the topic in the future;
Looking forward to it! 🙌🏼@@panorama_mastering
This was beyond interesting. And I really appreciate you being pedantic about precision. After all, this is physics at its best. Congrats and looking forward for your next video!
Thank you glad you enjoyed it!
Great video. I think your process was spot on. I've recently gone through the same process with Sylomer to isolate an entire room inside a room.
Perhaps many speaker isolation products are snake oil. Regardless, as you well know, the spring needs to be relative to the weight it is supporting. Great stuff!
Nice work! How do you manage weight distribution when floating an entire room; as the structural boundary walls will spread a greater load of weight across the floor from it's point of contact?
@@panorama_mastering The wall bottom plates have Sylomer under them at each stud location. The studs also take the load of the ceiling joists above. The floor is timber due to weigh limit constraints (not enough mass for isolation of lowest audible frequencies) and was designed to be independent of the main structure, although sealed to it and the perimeter.
During construction I was concerned about the potential amount of movement of the floor at the perimeter.I think my theoretical load calculations for the Sylomer at the perimeter of the floor needed to be different for those away from the walls, due to the fact that floor loading is spread over less points of contact at the perimeter.
Consequently I made a rash decision to fix the perimeter of the floor to the wall framing.
Nonetheless, isolation testing I've conducted so far, albeit rudimentary, seems to align with theoretical calculations I had made prior to construction.
I'm not an acoustician!!
Makes sense! Thanks for clarifying;
I saw those digital scales in the background at the start and had questions 😂
haha :P
I love it. Great stuff as usual.
My question is this: if products like iso acoustics and the likes are useful for situations where the stand or the table are less than ideal - would building stands and keeping the isoacoustics be the same result as building the "super stands" you're aiming towards?
Totally relevant for me as I have the same speakers, isoacoustics stands and am literally in the process of designing a new desk as well as stands! 😅 🤘 You're a legend mate.
Good question; and too long winded to answer here; the speaker stand video (Which is now postponed due to making the best damn video on it I can)
I promise it'll be worth the wait; just trying to get through quite a bit here;
Cheers! Take the time it takes 🤘 thanks Nick
How accurate can it be if the scales aren’t calibrated, also weight distribution is different from nominal weight.
The 500g tells you that, for the nominal weight use a single scale for the speaker
Not sure! I have some newer takeaways for a future video I want to share as an update for this
That would be a great follow up, in any case keep it up dude!
Finally! Im right there too😅.
I gotta say that its the way i see a problem and the solution. More of a fun thing. Every time i get into these situations i learn a lot. So for me its a way of always being curious and learn. Trying to strive for best solution possible
I use spring style iso feet. I removed four of seven springs.
My speakers have completely optimized.
There is no looking anywhere else for me.
Endgame feet!
The problem here is none of your tests can measure smearing in any way that quantifies it. The ears connected to the human brain can.
ISOAcoustics Oreas the beat Hands-down!!
Not an expert on this level, so i won’t start correcting but as deep as my rabbit whole went, I can tell that this wasn’t well researched nor in any form scientific. Those clips from people who claim to have great knowledge but don’t make me shy away from RUclips.
In fact I suggest to correct this video and research further (transmissibility curves for example). Please don’t see this as an assault, it should be a motivation for better content. Have a great day
Hey Schall; always happy for feedback; what aspects of the video could have been better researched?
This was mainly documenting my experience and journey on the topic; so I know there may have been things I missed;
@@panorama_mastering i don't have the time nor the motivation to point out every flaw. As mentioned you should research "transmissibility curves" to get a better understanding of what you are talking about. No one wants to isolate a speaker from their room.. it's about reducing mechanical vibration that are coming from (and to) the speaker, wich comes with a down side, tho by doing this in the right way you will get a way better performance. Also sylomer is not the best and even northward knows..
@@schallfarben5614 I put these video's together to explore concepts and I'm happy to be wrong; and learn from them; so if you're happy to have the time to leave a comment/critique for motivation, I'd be muchly appreciative of you sharing any summary of the information you have on hand to point our your goal for speaker isolation, how reducing mechanical vibration or transmission helps achieve that and it's relevant to better translation of the speakers?
@@schallfarben5614 Why do you think Sylomer is not the best, and how do you now Thomas at Northwards knows this, too? :) I'm curious to know more..
I don't get it. Twice my comments disappeared from here
Weird, I just saw these comments disappear in my feed too!?
@@panorama_mastering i dunno man. I did some research and apparently yt has some "cleaning" algo that does what it wants ..
@@saardean4481 Yeap that's annoying :(