Coupling VS Decoupling: What you NEED to know!
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- Опубликовано: 14 янв 2020
- In AV Room Services first Tech Talk, Norman Varney walks us through what you need to know when it comes to Coupling VS Decoupling.
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Thanks Norman for a well-focused presentation that gets right to the point without wandering around unnecessarily. MANY could learn from you.
We use these products in the HVAC equipment when mounted on the roof, ceiling, wall or floor of a house structure. It kills the harmonics of the noisy equipment so the occupants of the house do not hear it vibrating through the materials it is resting on. I get the leftover waste products and use them on my speakers at home for free works great.
I actually purchased some 2x2 vibration pads at my local HVAC store. I placed them under each component in my system. They work great and are amazingly inexpensive.
Purchased pads made out of eva they use for compressors for my speakers. What a great application!
Excellent! Need more videos on this topic. Vibration control has a significant impact on speakers and components. Will be great if this series continues with a deeper dive into this subject (structure borne, component borne, air borne vibrations etc.)
Indeed
That music box test was one of those “but why didn’t I think of that” moments. I have long gone back and forth between cones, Sorbothane, restrained layers, etc. and could usually hear a difference, but still could not determine which was better.
I've always just used the bowl and plink it technique.
for subwoofers the only thing that seems to matter is that they're locked in place and risen off the floor as much as you'd want clearance behind a speaker since the floor is just a wall
@@linkeddevices Proper isolation will improve both the sound quality and the noise control.
This is SENSATIONAL Ron
Very impressive and job well done man.
OG Ron B bringing it home
Good video. I have recently removed the floor spikes from my speakers and started to use isolation pads which has improved the base significantly on my Celestine speakers.
Well done Norman!! Great video to both of you.
Great video. Super impressive and obvious differences portrayed here. The answer to getting as clean and accurate of loud speaker sound includes some sort of decoupling. It really is a small price to pay for big returns.
Small price? 8 EVPs for my speakers would cost me nearly 2 000 $ ...
Thanks Ron for your dedication and commitment.
I received SVS Soundpath isolation feet yesterday. I’ve connected them to 2 SVS SB-1000 subs. I didn’t have rattle, I wanted to tighten up the bass so I have better synergy with the Magnepan LRS. Will see how they perform over the next few days
My brother has those under his Diy floorstanders and they are awesome!
I gave the SVS Soundpath a good run today and they have made a big difference. The bass is much tighter and the synergy with the very fast Magnepan LRS has increased.
I purchased 2 of the 6 packs, so have 4 spare feet to make a plinth for a turntable
@@Newrecordday2013 I would buy them, but in Europe they are €69,- instead of $49,-. Which is almost double the price... :(
I’m really impressed Ron, great segment and will look into these myself. Hope to chat with you again at Axpona!
Exceptionally clearly explained some information I was missing. Very good visual-audible examples. Especially the kernel of knowledge everyone needs to "understand". Do the best you can to get the room as clean sounding as you can, especially when multiple subs are involved. I'm trying to learn how to wrangle 2 of them. It's simple but not easy. I definitely need to stabilize my subs with some decouplers. My subs are walking at reasonable listening levels. LVP on foam on concrete substrate. It is loose goose slick. I did find a potential great solution, but they are a bit pricey. Oh well.
There are some things in this video that has been simplified a little bit too much for my engineering tastes. Lower frequencies don't have more energy than higher ones and it isn't the density of a material that makes it carry waves well. The problem with lower frequencies is that they typically resonate with the construction elements of the building and that they can travel a long distance before fading. Spikes works well if they are applied on points under the speaker that don't resonate at any audible frequencies, typically close to the corners of the cabinet. Soft materials like silicone pads or sponge materials are easier to apply correctly for optimal result, so I would recommend those for most people. I'm sure the product mentioned in the video works very well.
I have a concrete floor with ceramic tiles and decoupling is a must. Even the subwoofer with their own decoupling feet needs it, less booming and tighter bass.
Great video. Thanks. Regarding EVP's products, what are the Natural frequencies for each products for a given mass/weight? What Norman Varney didn't tell, but I'm sure he knows the subject very well : you can amplify vibration instead of reducing them. Mass Air Mass Systems or Mass Spring Mass Systems have a resonant frequency (fn). Isolation will only start at fn√2. Hence the importance to know the Natural Frequency of the decoupling system. Thank you for the video. Jean-Pierre B. _Acoustic Designer_ @ *Neutral & Natural Acoustics*
The natural frequency for the EVP family when properly loaded is 3-4 Hz. You can see the lab tests at avroomservice.com/evp-2/.
This is very good video. I learned something new to this video. I learned about decoupling and how important it is to decouple your sound.
Fantastic content; I really loved it. Taught me a lot. Thanks for this.
I would try these products. I use Sorbothane hemispheres under my speakers on top of their stands to stop the room from singing along and, the sound is clearer and more pure. There is less energy entering the floor and the sound doesn’t travel as far from the room. These AVP decouplers would take the system to the next level for me. They would be great under my turntable too. I have been experimenting like this for a long time but, AVP have created something that fits my ideal.
That was fantastic information. I use "decouplers" in my system. In my case I have IsoAccoustics on my subs as well as my speaker stands. For the subs, it cleaned up room vibration, reduced vibration load on the surrounding speaker stands (which impacted the tweeters) as well as tightened up the bass frequency response. For the speaker stands it caused the speakers to vanish, by expanding the sound stage so fluidly, that sound seems to come from everywhere but the speaker itself, save extreme left/right sound output.
What I would like is similar information regarding electrical pathways in linear amplified systems.
all good info, but what is your opinion on cabinet resonances which are designed as part of the speaker voicing/tuning ? if you damp them out, wont that hurt the "character" of the speaker?
More great info. Thanks!
I used so many kinds of speaker stands platforms and idolators- but for me Sound Anchors lead + Sand filled with triangle rear (stops piston action of driver) and the standard spikes that come with sound anchor sits on my rug- yea they were expensive but for my Magnepan 3.6r they allow the entire speaker to tilt and be dialed in perfect and the speakers are rock solid front back piston action is zero movement. I use same type on my Vandersteen Speakers. - but for my desk top I use home depot round rubber furniture stays - 1-1/2 in. Brown Smooth Rubber Furniture Cups- (3 three for each speaker) and some balled up Loctite Fun-Tak in center of indented circle on the furniture rubber puck attaching the puck and speaker together- the puck sits naked on desk top. I test the forward and back piston effect by touching speaker at top and sides of top to see if they move- they don't tip and are balanced perfectly for moving around when I pick them up but will not be locked to desk top allowing a more natural sound - and I bought a very heavy duty tile from home depot called Envirotile Reversible 16 in. x 16 - the tile is thick and heavy rubber and that goes under sub. I irradiated vibrations cheap
Excellent video!
Great video. Lots of useful information.
Brilliant, thanks!
The A/V Room EVP looks like a good product at a reasonable price. The guy who designed them knows what he's talking about is very knowledgeable.
Contrast that to Isoacoustics Gaia range that is sky high prices. No mention of the rubber used and a video at a AV show the Gaia against spike's where they deliberately skewed the test in the Gaia favour.
I use heavy-duty velcro for decoupling and when appropriate, keep things stationary but still moveable. Heavier the item, more square inches needed. Stuff floats on a bed of barbed whiskers. Super cheap, order it in any size and cut to length/size.
Seems like a clever idea!
So if you have a concrete floor with carpet, what is best? I currently have slate under each floor stander using spikes onto the slate.
Same here. I have then tried foam between the speaker stand and speaker, spikes, black tak etc.. Definitely hear minor differences but can't say really what I prefer.
I found a sub pad that is 33x28 but my sub is 38x20. Would that still work?
Fantastic. Now, where can I get one of those music boxes?
Great presentation!
Physics and a voice of reason...a one-two punch! One curious thing to be aware of when considering vibrational energy, is that it can't be eliminated. In the case of decoupling devices such as Norman's, it's converted to heat. No, not enough to heat your house, but that's the mechanism at work. Coupling devices typically transfer vibrational energy in a sympathetic way. Thus speaker box vibration is converted into structure borne (house) vibration. As he points out, and because of typical home construction methods, results will be inconsistent at best. A real crap shoot from a scientific perspective.
The whole idea is to control the vibrations from entering the structure and becoming unwanted vibrations.
Would a rug reduce vibration too?
I just ordered two sets of these for a couple of ML Dynamo 1600Xs. I have a rattling IN My Windows and in the metal heating vents that line the walls of my home. I look forward to trying these out as soon as they come in. I really hope they work- from what I hear and read- They Should!
Now. Could you tell me the result?
When you're holding the music-box mechanism just in your hand, you're providing heavy damping to the structure's base, hence it not being very loud.
When you place the music-box mechanism on a hard surface, much of the damping has been removed, the downward direction sound is being reflected upwards AND the surface on which it sits is being excited, hence creating a panel that also creates sound.
A lesson in logic.
@@2112res logic....or physics?
@@darkmagna9004 Seems logical that physics would produce what OP states
I cant find a place to buy these, does anyone have a link?
I decoupled my loudspeakers with just a simple cheapo kitchen sponges I bought tons of ‘‘em and place them under a bamboo chopping board between the speaker base, you know what? it works sounds better than before, I get less vibrations on the floors my doors my windows etc my room sounds less quieter than before even at very high volumes I enjoy the Bass response much better now, thanks for sharing happy listening 👍
So you cleaned up the sound with a kitchen sponge....😂 Nice!
So what good do spikes do vs. putting things on a flat surface? Why does everyone seem to recommend spikes on your speakers and turntable?
That's a great question as the results are not predictable and will vary for every situation, often making matters much worse.
This was very informative once you stopped passing gas and got to the subject. Thanks for the info, :)
Always with the gas
Hi, if I want to decouple my bookshelf speakers which are kept on a speaker stand, do I install EVP under the speakers or under the stand ?
I have concrete floor and my downstairs neighbor complains about his false ceiling rattling even if volume is little higher
It would not matter, but I would recommend between the speaker and the stands for better stability.
Doesn't putting your speaker on carpet provide the same EVP function? You sure thats desireable vs spikes, and or much different from the EVP pads?
A real demo with real facts.I remember many years ago buying a cone kit to put under my 4 ways column speakers they ruined the stereo image and lost most of the bass in my particular system !
Good one.
What are the EVPs made of? How do they isolate so well?
They are layers of fiberglass working like leaf springs to change the mechanical energy into thermal energy. Learn more at avroomswervice.com/evp-2/. They are effective form about 5 Hz. on up.
Great video. Inexpensive upgrade...definitely getting these for my two subs and maybe the bookshelf speakers as well.
It's not clear to me when it's preferable to couple a piece of equipment. But I know my 100-year-old floors resonate with my sub so I'm eager to try to decoupling.
Me too! Mine are only 45yo but the creak like crazy right around the sub.
Hey Ron always great to see you! Thanks for putting this video out, found it very interesting. I use the Vibrapods product through out my system, and have had really notice a difference using them.
I just took some packing foam, used it as an acoustic isolator and it did not cost me a dime.
The universe vibrates!
Well the Earth certainly is...constantly!
Very nice, Norman sounds like a good guy. I will be purchasing serval for my setup. Thanks for the content!
Ditto jaw is still dropped! Wow!!!
What if I have thick carpet?
If sound is travelling better in denser matetial so why HiFi rackas use dence heavy wood ?
I the dancer the wood the better sound travels in it better yet what does it mean about its ability to dumpen vibrations ??
But won't it make the speaker move more instead cause it's looser, so it counteracts the movement of the drivers to some extent?
Hi very interesting video indeed I have only a comment maybe silly I think that the main source of vibrations usually is the speaker and not as someone say the sorrounding enivornment
I mean if the vibrations are dealt with at speaker level then any decent and robust stand will do fine This idea puts the cabinet design and construction under the scope
A very well executed cabinet controls the vibrations generated by the woofer during the highest peaks at low Hz
Springs iso feet!
Please try under your speakers.
Transformative and optimal sound by far.
Read comments on A-zon.
You may want to remove some springs for smaller speakers.
It’s a true decoupler. I feel no vibrations on my stands.
Doctor strange on tech Tuesdays, I am impressed
There is a very simple and cost effective way to eliminate the room. Use headphones! So, why don’t more audiophiles do, just that? Well, in honesty and in reality the room can substantially enhance the performance, add ambiance! Yes, I’ve decoupled my floor standers from my wood clad, concrete floor, to reduce colourisation of the mids and the highs. But, following the directions of the chief designer of the company who manufacture my subs, I have them firmly coupled to the floor. They are equipped with active down-firing drivers which utilise the vast surface area of the floor to evenly distribute those low frequencies. Firmly coupling them to the floor, reduces cabinet movement thereby increasing bass energy into the room.
You can listen to 10 professional opinions on coupling, or decoupling, and get 10 opposing answers. I’ve been an avid and enthusiastic audio consumer since the early 80s. Time, hard earned money, trial and error and experimentation have lead me to these conclusions.
For every action there are consequences. This is never more true than in the world of audio. Only you, the consumer, or, end user, can determine whether these consequences are favourable.
Well said!
👍🍻
Beautiful comment my fellow man. I’ve always been skeptical of the misleading rabbit holes of information in the audio world. This only further supports my theories - it’s all a business. Ive seen and heard of classic records made and mixed in less than ideal rooms with less than ideal equipment.
@@airbourne145 👍👍
Yup, 1of 6 system setups in my house, the main one really, I've got rattles inside a prefab log fireplace, to one side of the room, near all my favorite floorstanding speakers. Decupling is needed becau it ruins the purity of the sound.
4 inch medium density EVP is $200 . I need 5 of these to support my 100 pound subwoofer , which comes to $1000 . Am I missing something here ?
You could use five 2" EVP HDs for a total of $595 to handle 100 pound load.
Cool! Better than Professor Proton!....and certainly useful info. Thanks.
I had to make my own Accoustic Panels , And dang they work great ! Got the nearfield room sounds great last video upload i showed a sneak peak of the nearfield room
so, no offense I fast forwarded to the talk, and then rewound... and you were right it was very eye opening.
The music box was a good demonstration but it was only showing isolation of fairly high frequencies. That's easier to do than lower frequencies. The natural frequency of the isolation system has to be around 1/3 x the lowest frequency that you hope to isolate for. Damping will reduce the peak vibration at resonance but will reduce the degree of isolation at the higher frequencies. Most materials that people use of a rubber compound are WAY too hard for effective audio isolation and will end up isolating some frequencies but boosting others. They will most definitely change the sound heard but not all for the good. Sorbothane has a calculator that lets you design isolators for the proper isolation frequencies you need.
Pardon but those are $45 a pop. That’s for the 2”x2” ones. That’s a tad nuts sorry. That’s $360 for a pair of speakers
That’s actual very cheap for snake oil.
@@Sloimer Guess you don't believe in science then......🙄
Lol 99 a pop so over 700 for a pair of speakers.
What if I hang my speakers in rubber ropes from the ceiling? :)
It can work to the degree that the rubber tension will have resonances. The other issue is the difficulty in positioning and aiming the speakers accurately.
pretty sure they will move
I have had amazing success with some isoacoustics products. Gaia’s under floor standers and pucks under equipment.
Isoaccoustics don't even reveal what type of rubber is used in the Gaia, they are a rip off for the high snakeoil prices. There are much better vibration reduction alternatives at a fraction of the cost.
A/V Room are transparent stating fiberglass material is used in the EVP. Also Hudson Hi-Fi IsoBlock is another excellent product, they use proprietary platinum cured silicone in their products.
So coupling a solidly built speaker to a solidly built floor structure will increase the efficiency of the drivers movement by not allowing the cabinet to vibrate in the opposite direction. At what point does this increase in efficiency outweigh isolating it from the residence of the floor? Not necessarily an easy question to be answered generically, but certainly something to be considered.That is why I am guessing that in some instances coupling is better than the coupling or vice a versa.
Great question. There are many variables to consider regarding the density, stiffness and mass for each component in the system. However, proper decoupling (via a break in the path or transformation of mechanical energy to thermal energy) will keep the energy out of the structure, which leads to improved sound quality and noise control. Keep in mind that the entire loudspeaker cabinet will move regardless of it being coupled or decoupled. Sometimes it is even part of the designed sound, though usually manufacturers try to avoid any vibrations other than the drivers.
Would you recommend isolating speakers that use (or try to use) vibrations in a positive way? I’m thinking something like Audio Note or maybe the old Snell, too…
My opinion is that coupling the speaker to the sub floor is a must in carpeted rooms as leaving it on the rug would have detrimental results on driver response . Short of it being on a wood floor built like a giant base drum, I think coupling will always improve the sound and other treatments should be employed to deal with the room surfaces.
That being said, I have seen studies that show isolating works better but I think a lot of that needs to be considered as a result of a more densely constructed cabinet with greater weight will respond one way and a lighter more resonant cabinet will react differently.
In my simple understanding decoupling a speaker from the underlay just directs the energy back into the speaker enclosure and creates a feedback loop. The speaker enclosure acts as a feed back resonator for wich it was not designed. I have sorbotane decoupling pods for my speakers, but they are more accurate without them, because the pods introduced new quirky stuff I dident hear befor.e. I think this is a experiment best experienced through personal trial and errror. But I dont use decoupling products anymore. They can be useful though for isolating soundvibration to your walls ceiling and floor if you live with neighboors and dont like to bother them.
He does mention at the end that decoupling changes it, which may sound better or worse to your ears. So I think you are correct!
@@2007Tubes With the pods the sound loses a fair amount of resolution and definition, like its being sucked up by the enclosure
True isolation devices convert sound energy into thermal energy. So mechanical vibrations that enter the EVP core are dissipated i to heat, not reflected back. The Sorbothane is likely resonating at a an audible frequency. EVP do not. Their natural resonances is 3-4 Hz.
@@2007Tubes Coupling will change the sound with every different situation. EVP will not. They will be neutral, predictable and consistent no matter the conditions.
@@Funkywallot True isolation will of much more resolution and definition.
Thought I had it made when I moved from the states to Germany (to help care for elderly relatives), and got the use of a basement room to set up my gear. Super-thick concrete walls, AND, about a 5-inch concrete ceiling. "Yummy, yummy," I said to myself. Was I surprised when the wife informed me how well she could hear the thumping base in the rooms upstairs! WHAT?!!! Yup. And when the music isn't playing you can even hear them talking upstairs. Just the other day I also discovered that while the two exterior walls are concrete, the two interior walls are actually terracotta block covered with an inch or so of plaster. Obviously, the little channels inside the terracotta are boosting the vibrations. This REALLY sucks!
Do you need decoupling if your room is carpeted?
@Norman?
Yes. Carpet and pad does very little work to decouple.
what about other isolation devices ? giant bearings for amps ,, small pyramids for speaker cables,, and so on..
@@AVRoomService saw one guys serious McIntosh set up .. well matched amps anyway big impressive he had them tuned by McIntosh as a pair one for each channel feeding these refrigerator size JBL monsters. He had these on a sheet ? Of teflon under that was some kind of semi ridged foam the amps rested on big bearings that like you said would transfer vibration . System had 6 components amps speakers preamp turn table.. 650? Grand.
And he had speaker and connect cables you could jump start a car with those again were isolated from ground. Very pretty.
@@scottygdaman It is difficult to isolate via hard materials. Isolation is only done by breaking the path or by absorbing the energy to heat. You should be suspect if there is no vibration transmissibility test report.
Man !! This is old news 😄 I have used VT feet the last 15 years !!
Man !! Your old news is REALLY old news!
I've been using Sims Navcom pucks for 30yrs!!
;)
Yo! I just came across this fireplace rattle myself the other day. Grr! Need to decouple my subs from the floor asap
They worked perfect for me! Honest!
My initial thought, whilst looking at the title of the video was that you were getting into model railroading! -another hobby of mine.
So is this exclusively with music and exclusively with standard bass/LFE setups? My theater has quite the number of subwoofers (6 15s, 3 18s) and I haven't seen the point in decoupling my subs from the floor. I just don't see it making that big of a difference :(
@@AVRoomService Hi Norman, thank you so so much for replying! My theater is in a 1200sq foot basement. I get some CRAZY pressurization (over 127dB without hitting 0dB on the AVR) but I'm always trying to find ways to create a flatter response from say 5Hz up to about 150Hz. Do you think decoupling will help with that?
@@budgetaudiophile6048 Isolation will not give you anymore sound power, but would certainly give you more accurate frequency response in the room because the structure will no longer interfere.
Hmmmm....I understand coupling & decoupling rather well, but I don't think this guy explained all that much, especially in regard to what should be coupled and what should be decoupled.
Oh well... I hope others found this vid useful.
🎶
@Fat Rat Tools of the trade...I don't leave home without it. 📢
@Fat Rat Is that a hint 😳 No kids till 28th...I'm officially back the Wednesday prior as per all staff. PD's till Friday....Friday arvo meet n greet parents/students, if anybody shows. Some do & bring all their gear. I'm going in now anyhow....getting room sorted, planning etc. No pay for that....making use of Bluetac!!!
Why would anyone want to couple vibrations into a structure?
If you take this to an extreme and put a bass rig on big pile of foam, wouldn't the whole speaker cab be unstable and rocking back and forth? Wonder how he arrived at the ideal amount of isolation. Got a feeling too much of a good thing can be a problem.
It's physics- the right load with the right density and size to do the job. The website has a new calculator at avroomservice.com/evp-2/.
I thought the majority of speakers were designed / voiced with the use of spikes in mind. Surely by using such device you are changing the sound of the speaker from what the speaker designer originally intended? Just a thought.
Supes 323 this would be an excellent follow up video topic.
You can't 'voice' a speaker to compensate for resonances and vibration created noise. Also, speaker designers are not gods and they do not all know everything nor do everything right all the time. Look at the speaker industry and the recent raves and rages for plinth's and spikes. Speaker makers like selling you a rock solid stand that keeps your speakers from falling over when bumped, isolation devices will/might make your speakers seem wobbly, then the angry phone calls. You buy some stuff, Sorbothane or whatever and try it out and see if you think a speaker designer would be mad at you for it. It's a free world, sorta, and the right isolation on the right speakers is like a miracle.
Cool presentation but the price is insane. $800 to support one tower speaker or sub!
Depends on the weight of the component. At minimum, three 2" EVPs, which is $297 and can handle 3-76 pounds.
What would happen if he put a music box on an ordinary sponge?
It would work fairly well with the music box, but not with anything heavier. The low density, resilient material must be able to handle the load properly.
"Couple of Points..." =D
In Europe, we make brick walls, there are no vibrations
You don't do a TEF measurement of your room that would identify problem posts or fireplaces, etc.? A good analysis should be able to "see" anything going on.
My first time here. Just heard "Once you don't hear your room any more and you're just hearing your speakers?" OK, you fixed a rattle resonance. Saying you don't hear your room any more because something is decoupled totally ignores the physics or sound reproduction. Standing waves and room nodes are physics. You can optimize/minimize them at best but not by sticking something (which may be quite good) under your speakers. I've designed speakers and done high end audio for 35 years. Sorry but I'm outta here....
5:35 to skip to actual info
It's kind of fascinating how he didn't consider fixing what was loose in the fireplace.
Don’t need to with the evps.
Try cork.
When he demonstrated his little music box on his product, his hand covered it. And it sounded like he blocked the little levers. As i used to do as a kid.
So might work, might not. But this demo is questionable. Also 'i believe' 'i experience' is not data. Seeing that for my 2 speakers i would have to pay about 400+ euros, this is not exactly putting my mind at ease.
Not fair...have you ever used a tuning fork...?
@@steven2809 why not fair? You can't see what he does. Not saying it works or not (i have gaia feet myself btw), but when you cover it with your hand...
I put the SVS SoundPath feet on my subs, awesome tweek for $49
In Europe they are €69,- which is about 80 dollars... :(
What the frak is an "EVP"?
Wait until 14:25 to find out.
I think it would really benefit if somebody could articulate what they hear after installing the EVP's. Maybe even provide a before and after video. It's amazing what we're able to discern even with just earbuds.
I cant share a vid but I can share what I experienced when I tried a bunch of EVP’s... They do ‘suck up’/eliminate treble energy, at least in my environment. I tried them under a power filter, a memory buffered CDT, two different DACs (one tubed, one ss), a DHT preamp, large ss amp, as well as under the stands of my speakers. The only place in my system where I liked the effect was under the power conditioner/filter. My system has a carefully balanced frequency response, so that may be why I felt that the EVPs reduced or deadened high frequency energy to much for my system. That could also be because of my Harbeth 40.2’s that don’t like components that are to warm or the life of the music just wont be there. So even with ears sensitive to excessive highs, I still need that pop and presence to the sound. The EVPs took me to far into a mellow sound...for MY system... BUT it also might have to do with what Norman was talking about; how the respond different in different structural environments. My stands have granite shelves, so maybe this made the EVPs perform a certain way... Also made me realize that most of my gear -with good machined aluminum chassis- must be ‘voiced’ with at least some level of surface to chassis vibration happening.
I can see how another brighter system may love what they do. And I can see how they could work great under other speakers, just not the Harbeths w/ their purposefully designed resonating cabinets.
@@mkwilson38 Thanks for your feedback which is pretty much expected as much. I used to dialogue a bit with this Norman Varney in one of the forums years ago and he then just as now seems impressed with what he thinks he knows about vibrations, their behaviors, and methodologies. Which really is more folklore than fact. I suspect that's why Norman spent all his time in the video sharing what he thinks he knows (common folklore) rather than on any real sonic benefits his methods and/or products provide.
As you may have noticed, the EVP's have certain acknowledgements from a few of the mags. Why? Well, take your seemingly genuine feedback above from one who I presume possesses at least some listening skills and in your case the EVP's mellowed the sound as you put it. You don't prefer this mellowing maybe because you suspect live music and playback music should sound more alive than mellow. But some of these others prefer mellow over vibrant because a mellowed (warm, colored, etc) sound softens some of the audible distortions especially in the highs that can induce listener fatigue. So some of these guys automatically assume because they can tolerate a playback presentaion more with a "mellowed" sound, then it must be more musical. It just has to be more musical!!!
So here's the not-so-funny part, IMO. The vast majority of the all distortions induced on every last playback system are the result of poorly manged vibrations. The very distortions that products like EVP's suggest they address actually take a playback system in the wrong direction so that it becomes less revealing and less resolving which only helps hide the audible distortions. IOW, they compound the very problems and distortions they claim to remedy. In contrast, a more revealing playback system also reveals more of these very distortions in a given system because for the most part our components and systems are indiscriminate about what it reveals more or less of. Whether it's a musical note or a form of audible distortion. If that makes sense. Anyway, a truly superior vibration mgmt product will absolutely minimize these crippling distortions while simultaneously making the music presentation far more vibrant and live sounding to the point where a "mellow" sound is but a foreign concept.
@@ToadStool942 Why would you diss my credentials in the noise and vibration industry and not look into the EVP lab reports?
@@AVRoomService Sorry but some of us just have different perspectives regarding resonant energy, their behaviors, materials, methods, etc. I suspect you actually know very little about the fundamentals of resonant energy and their behaviors and their remedies and as a result you do little but follow industry folklore. As such, I suspect your products offer little in the way of real performance as seemingly evidenced by mkwilson38's post above. If your designs adhered to certain fundamental principles and offered genuine significant improvements across the board and across the frequency spectrum every time for most every component with not too dissimilar resutls, then I might think otherwise. Is mkwilson38 incorrect in his assessment of your products? If you answer yes, then I suppose I should ask, why are you "diss'ing" your customers? If you answer no, then I'm guessing my assessment is somewhere in the ballpark of correctness. As would be mkwison38's.
@@ToadStool942 Interesting that you still don't care about credentials or lab reports. BTW, in the two years of selling EVPs, one third of the customers buy more and we have only had 2.5 orders returned, including the one mentioned above.
Blutak between speakers and stands anyone?
Auralex Subdude platforms work similarly for subwoofers for $50 each. Maybe use them under monitor stands?
I'm going to find a music box mech as test equipment ;-)
This video will brake the money income of snake oil hi fi accessories
I've seen more than few sellers trying to hype their "isolation pads" for crazy money. Folks, they are selling you HVAC pads. They're overpriced at $3 each on Amazon. Plenty of options and sizes available.
Look at the specs, you'll see weights like 50 PSI. They are for heavy machinery and have resonances in the audible bands. Not designed for audio equipment or for that matter, anything a consumer would have at home.
My Wallet will suffer...
Isoacoustics feet do wonders vs spikes into concrete floor. Centre image more focused, speakers step out of the way more, microdynamic detail, soundstage separation, bass much more impactful and tactile. Funny though that those on AV forums said it was snake oil as it wasn't 'gear'. Alot of them are total wankers anyway
I decouple my speakers completely, no wires to anything. 0 vibration in any component. Dead quiet.
whew...... good guy, great info. but that presentation completely 'uncoupled' my attention.
The ONLY issue I have with this is the fact that you edited your video at the point where you placed the music box onto the subwoofer. For all I know, within the edit, you increased the volume output to enhance the sound. I'm not saying you did that as I agree with you on this but, for future videos on things like this, you're best doing it all in one take in order to avoid any accusation of falsification.
Interesting. 👍
Pot & Kettle what if he didn’t cut but instead just raised the volume? Sound and video are not locked in video editing. I think Ron is known for faking the earth being flat too but that’s a topic for another day.
@@ericberntson6078 Fair point. 👍
@@AVRoomService I don't doubt you at all but I hope you see my point?
No, Norman is right. There was zero editing done to the volume at all. All I did was just change the crop from scene to scene.
It's the classic UVO, unidentified vibrating object, debunked.