Why trickstar, virtual world, Qliphoth, drytron, yang zing and salamangreat died? All these decks *were tier 1 at their time, i probably already know the reason, but i love to watch the details you guys put on the videos.
that Mask change II play with the mind crush tech against nekroz searching was the MOST LIT EVER, I saw that ISH live and it reignited my DUELING SPIRIT
@MiYu trickstar lost droll reincarnation, vw lost vfd, qli is old and shit, dry lost...a bunch of stuff I think idk, yang zing lost denglong, salad lost copies of gazelle & circle and is old and shit Edit: trickstar got droll reincarnation back! I didn't realise! It's just old and shit
They need to give ba some cool support the artwork is sick they could do so mutch with it i mean japanese they really like christian mythology its insane that the deck still did not got any support for 8 years
Spell books/prophecy have that one card that looks like it was meant to be an mtg card, but like, if you want your cards to look like mtg cards, theres this game from Hasbro/Wotc called Magic: The Gathering.
Farfa played it for so long that we all wake up in the night screaming "CL1: Cir target dante, CL2: Dante target Cir" or snap awake in a cold sweat because we had dream about dropping effect veiler on cherubini.
Burning Abyss is interesting because it is one of arctypes that have a lot of summoning mechanics, even the popular mechanic from BA only the Link and XYZ. But it will be very interesting if Konami can make other mechanics like Synchro, Ritual, and Fusion BA more playable too.
@@dragon-id5uj yeah but you just want BA to have branded end boards. Branded whole gimmick is being able to make almost whatever ED monster you want and what you described sounds like BA's version of that.
@@shadowbandit147 the dude is specifically talking about in-archetype extra deck monsters of the different extra deck types being relevant rather than the ability of a deck which can summon every extra deck monster type, in which BA and branded have nothing in common in this regard since the only in-archetype extra deck monster type that branded have is obviously fusion, in which case BA can be compared to magikey or odd-eyes
@@konolinkuda3586 ohhhhhh if that's the the case then mb. I'm sorry dragon for coming at you like that. Branded has me a bit salty in MD and I mistook your comment as saying "BA should be able to summon any ED Monster"
Because you have to have no S/T cards on the field to special summon them from hand. So the field spell would have to be played after your make you initial plays, and the question is whether you could have an effect worth actually waiting until later in the combo to play.
@@superbr0ws015 you could easily circumvent that with a line of text. Something like "you may special summon burning abyss monsters by their own effect, ignoring their summoning conditions." Or maybe just make it so that the field spell specifically is exempt from that effect. Then also make it so they don't blow themselves up. Anything else beyond that is just icing.
@@YeahTheDuckweed I ain't a card text lawyer but you get what I'm going for. Use the special summon, ignore the need for no spells or traps. I think the other way I mentioned is actually better though, where the field spell exempts itself from that effect.
Speaking of Master rule 4, I wasn't playing at the time, but I would like an in depth analysis on Knightmare Goblin and or Knightmare Mermaid and how they changed the meta, maybe on an episode of the Banhammer
One of them gave you an additional normal summon, the other one let you make full orcust combo with any 2 monsters. Not really game changing, meta defining maybe, but honestly mermaid isnt that different to Halqifibrax in terms of usage. I'd say both are equivalent to Lavaval chain in their respective Metagames (single card engine that's easily accessible from the extra deck, and can acheive almost any board, if used correctly)
Nightmare Goblin was a menace because it gave every deck that can put two different names monsters on the field the ability to get an extra normal summon that was always available because it was an extra deck monster. And unlike brilliant fusion you didn't have to run any garnets (heh) in main deck so your deck can be as consistent as you wanted and still have the ability to extend your combos via extra normal summon. Hell it could even draw a card if it was co linked which was nice bonus. Mermaid is interesting because it and Orcust Knightmare made it so that any two monsters on the field can go into a full Orcust combo VERY consistently. This meant that any deck could splash in an orcust package and take advantage of the power of the Orcust cards. Searchable omni negate, galatea, ding etc are really good to be so easily accessible at the time 😀
You know how any 2 monsters make Verte make whatever fusion was pretty much in every rogue deck that couldn't do anything else or extra gas for more meta combo decks? Imagine that with Orcust cards
I’ve been wanting a field spell just called “The Burning Abyss” for ages. It keeping them from killing themselves would be very awesome, and I think the trade off of locking the special summon ability down is kinda fair and could still be played around, or it could just grant them the same effect but with “other than this card” stapled on. And shoot, while I’m asking for it, throw a 500 point stat pump on there or something, why not
effect 1: when activated search 1 BA from deck effect 2: BA monsters you control cannot be destroyed by card effects effect 3: if sent to grave recycles BA cards to draw (so multiple copies aren't useless in hand/deck)
Probably because its super niche and would like an easy to search burning abyss by name I guess, but you're completely right Fiendish Rhino is/was a great sub
@@tekken425 rhino was a godsent, rhino+any BA = normal rhino, special BA from hand, make dante then detatch rhino to mill 3, rhino sends cir/graf and you go off from there... especially after cherubini was relesead, but then we all know the deck became phantom knight and not BA
They'll be back. They're not old to the point of being outright awful and are too cool to ignore forever. Something like an in-archetype Tour Guide than when sent to the graveyard makes all your BA indestructible until your next turn.
Another thing I think really hurt the deck was the increased prevalence of handtraps making Tour Guide a significantly worse opener. It was limited for such a long time because of how easily you could kickstart BA combos with it, but nowadays most BA players (myself included) don't even run max copies of it anymore because if its effect gets negated, you pretty much lose your turn (and thus the game) since you can't get BAs on the board anymore.
Honestly surprised you guys didn't mention that Beatrice floats into Pilgrim, which while isn't the greatest boss monster, still does a lot for BA and gives you even more advantage and is untargetable by your opponent. Plus getting to knock a card out of your opponent's hand when it's sent to the GY is yet another free plus.
BA support is in a way restricted through lore. They printed the Malebranche, Dante, Vergil, Beatrice, and argumentably the Devil. They could add characters like Charon, Cerberus, Phlegias, Minos, Geryon or the Giants for example as Extradeck monsters but they have a short appearance in the Inferno. The more lore fitting support in my opinion would be a series of protected fieldspells with artworks inspired by Botticelli or Dali which resemble different circles of hell which punish the souls for their combo, handtrap or floodgate (...) sins. Or just make an extension archetype which evolves around Purgatorio or Heaven or even around the description of hell from Vergil's Aeneis or Homer's Odyssee.
I think it would be interesting to cover an archetype that was never reallyyyy that good, and explain why its never been good and what it would need to become good.
I would like a ba monster that when normal or special summon has a tour guide effect . And a continuous trap like Psy frame over load that destroys a BA on field or hand and suffles back a card on the field with no target ....to be more relevant in this meta protection effects
@@findout2655 that would be also could and would be better if it made them unable to destroy them from their own effect , in case u drew it after u enstablised board
I've been thinking about what BA needs, a bit - no expert with the deck, though. Snow being hit is obviously a big problem, so I think something that fills her place somewhat, a more archetype-restricted option that can activate as a quick from GY for some disruption, rather than needing to trigger on a new chain after being sent, would give them some more reactivity and proactivity. A link-3/4 that can be made with less restricted materials than Cherubini would be good too, so that you can clean up your field of non-BA names more easily. In terms of lore-wise, the tortured spirits of Hell would fit well as things that live in the GY and activate there, and Satan himself is one of the big notable things from the Divine Comedy that is missing, and I would previously have said that Konami would probably shy away from that, but we *do* have Darklord Morningstar, so...
I've thought about a link-3 as the most suitable supplement as well: A Link-3 (BL, B, BR), that if summoned or sent to grave copies the effects of any one BA in the grave. thats it. It could for example copy Cherubini on summon to protect your BA's it points to and Farfa when sent to grave to rid of your opponents cards. It's versatile enough to be both an extender and an endboard piece, leaves room for interaction with possible other support or synergistic engines without being too generic to become it's own broken engine in other decks (i hope), since all it does is depend on and interact with other BA's. Some flexible disruption from inside the grave would certainly be great too, but as you pointed out yourself, clearing the field of non-BA's without loosing a bunch of BA's on field when you remove Cherubini is a big issue. what i could imagine as an interesting addition would be something akin to Sky Striker's eagle boosters, where you can protect your monsters, but in this case not by having no monsters in the MMZ but instead through sending a BA/Fiend from deck to grave, that then could trigger for some interuption (Alich, Farfa or Calcab for example). Lorewise im not too well-written, so i cannot estimate how likely these ideas would fit into the narrative, nor how likely/"correct" your suggestions about the "tortured spirits of hell" is, but the idea of a sort of "archetypal Fairy Tail - Snow" is quite intriguing, tho has to be managed carefully.
BA has always been a fun archetype to play (not necessarily always the case for your opponent, especially back in the day). Cool artwork as well. But they definitely need some help if they want to be relevant in a competirive environment. For other topics in this series, with the upcoming infernity spell support, maybe they would make for a decent topic. As their problem lies in not having a hand, they have to go full gas no brakes combo and make a board full of negates (if they dont get hand trapped that is) to compensate for their inability to utilise handtraps or quick play spells that can help stop handtraps like crossout and called by the grave. Back then they could get away with this as there were less handtraps and going first felt amazing. But nowadays theyre not even rogue anymore, just a locals one trick deck.
We need the unlimiting of sekka's light on the combo side. I played the 37 monster 3 sekka build for over a year and it allowed some crazy plays usually (towards the end) ending on apo with ip +link 2 for avramax and a beatrice. It's a really weird deck to look at cause, while it is xenophobic you can still play a lot of good extenders (The psychic level 3's that special summon if you have a level 3 on field helping push through tour guide getting ashed for example, or the baby chaos dragons when they were at 3, and SNOW being gone has hurt, along with the dangers being so busted for the archtype) meaning it is a very good link climb deck, even now it is used as an engine in a lot of non adventure PK lists since you can use tour guide as a 1 card full combo. What we need tho is just a better boss monster as stated, probably something with a negate built in, or BA that shuts off the self destruction effect, like a special summon fiendish essentially. Either that or what is meta now being banned into the ground. I have done some testing with the Ishizu cards but sadly it just feels like a worse dante in the deck. TLDR: a boss with a negate and a form of protection outside of cherubini or fiendish, maybe a in archtype soul charge as well.
The strongest era of BA at any time since MR4 was BEFORE Cherubini released. The deck was great throughout 2018 but folded the first time Fairy Tail - Snow got banned.
1) A new level 3 main deck BA that searches 1 "Burning Abyss" CARD from Deck to hand when sent to GY. 2) A new Field Spell that reads "When this card is Activated; You can take 1 "Burning Abyss" monster from your Deck and either Special Summon it, or Send it to the GY. Special Summoned Level 3 "Burning Abyss" monsters have their effects negated as long as they are face-up on the field. Once per turn: If your opponent controls at least 1 monster that was Special Summoned from the Extra Deck; You can Special Summon 1 "Burning Abyss" monster from your hand, But it cannot attack or be used as Material for Link, Synchro or Fusion Summons."
@@Harmonic14 How does it negate the special summon from hand? 😄 And yes, Scarm is ultimately way too slow and doesn't keep up with the speed of every other main deck monster.
I don't know how much it counts, but when I hear 'deck that just fell off the face of the earth,' the first thing that comes to my mind is Gladiator Beasts' brief fall from grace in September 2008. It was arguably the best deck in the format from about May 2008(after the emergency ban list put down DAD Return) until the release of Duelist Genesis and the Sept. 2008 ban list. Shockingly, despite being the toppest of top dogs, Glads got absolutely zero hits on that list. It was coming into Duelist Genesis format completely untouched, and was also gaining Equeste and War Chariot. But even with all of that, TDGS allowed Tele-DAD to be born, which complete erased Glads, and everything else, out of competitive viability for six whole months. A top tier, unstoppable powerhouse of a deck, completely put to bed for half a year not because of any ban list hits, but entirely because of power creep. Insanity.
Well what about because ruling happening like the cases dino rabbit and ignition priority got remove or new ruling to x-saber Dark Souls ruling errata.
When PK fire became popular for the first time the deck was extremely fun. It felt like there was always some line you had to deal with your opponent, so many choices on What to do. After that I havent enjoyed Any deck or format as much.
I once used the term "xenophobic" when referring to how some archetypes like BA work and farfa made a point to say I was stupid for using the word incorrectly lmao
The deck is still good and fun to play even though it isn’t up there with the meta contenders. I think it’s a couple cards away from being tier 1 or 2 again. Maybe another Link or XYZ boss monster
You forgot Kaijus. Thats still the best archetype used in any deck more so than dangers still. That came out in Eng first also Spyral.... nough said. Its easy to forget that the TCG came out with some good archetypes
Beatrice needs an errata to be a BA so it doesn't blow up the other BA or we need a BA with a Field effect that all BA cant be destroyed by their own effect to replace fiendish rhino warrior. and we need Beatrice to 3!
If Konami would add new burning abyss cards they should base them off Dantes journey through purgatory and the heavens but make sure they have synergies with the burning abyss cards. Just on case they're named something different for lore reasons
Dont forget In the official timeline of release they held back cherobini while releasing called by the grave first. Also official new direct support for ba is needed. Think of dragonlink, striker, altergiest, and all these other archtypes get alot of new support. Even shaddoll got better new support. BA has to contend against so many banishing from the grave, and while new archtypes like exosister inherently out it, and so does bystial. Fusion ba's, or ritual ba's or link ba's could possibly work. They can do stacking XYZ mechanics too. They can add new spells and traps. We need HELP KONAMI! MAKE BURNING ABYSS META AGAIN!
Cyber Angels was apparently really good at one point, although I missed the boat on that one. It's still good on duel links, but in the main game it sucks. I guess Konami is too afraid to buff it because of Drytron and Heralds, which really isn't fair on the deck.
BA sadly has no real turn 2 plays and has a terrible time playing through disruptions nowadays. the only real thing BA can do now is hoping to go first so they can summon I:P mascerena + beatrice pass. sadly the only way BA has seen SOME success in the past years was a trap-heavy built with stuff like trap trick, ice-prison and so on. which has become terribly slow in modern yugioh. the deck really needs a good boss-monster that can clear stuff turn 2 without instantly dieing to a simple kind of disruption. also the deck needs a pseudo-tourguide that has BA in its name, so the deck doesnt instantly fold when your opponent has any kind of stuff like imperm, veiler, ashblossom, droplet and so on. tourguide just cloggs the field
I want it to go old school and get Virgil and Fire Lake retrains. Like a hand trap Fire Lake that sends from the deck for cost and a non-targeting, non-OPT Rank 3 Xyz Virgil that gets the draw any way it leaves the field.
Lmao the amount of times people people tried to impermanence cherubini. Also I usually set a card before activating cherubini for when people tried to get cheeky with gamma on cherubini effect
I feel like you're over-estimating how xenophobic BA actually are while building/playing them. Between the destruction immunity given by Rhino and Cherubini, Dante not having the xenophobia clause, and the tendency of BA to not stay on the field you have a lot of options. For a good idea of what I mean, take a look at Hydralander BA with Sekka's Light (my personal favorite version of the deck). Only ran like 9-10 Burning Abyss monsters tops, with the rest being a bunch of monsters that would summon themselves. PK Fire is another good example.
For the case of Djinn Releaser of Rituals, can the level of the material exceed the number needed? Like can I ritual summon Relinquished, with this card from the graveyard?
@@benito1620 Even without VFD, the archetype overall and their card advantage was great. Newer Synchro archetypes like PUNK and Swordsoul were so much stronger in design and were released only a year after. It’s not as simply as saying “VFD died they lost a boss monster lol”
So BA never needed Cherubini at the start of MR4. We all thought the deck was dead then but it was actually good at the start. That's not the reason BA isn't good anymore.
I have a ull plan for a field spell. Name; 7 layers of the burning abyss. Pay 1000lp to activate this card. Burning abyss monsters cannot be destoyed by card effects you activate while this card is on the field. Once per turn. Banish 1 card that mentions dante in its name or description from the grave and add a burnming abyss monster from your gy to your hand.
Ich werde nie ein anderes Deck anfassen, PK abyss (60 cards big abyss engine), labrynth abyss, BA pure.. es gibt so viele gründe BA zu spielen, die schönsten artworks, eine aktive Spielmechanik ohne 30 Minuten Kombi! Liebe
I know BA is kinda dead but I absolutely despise Cherubini. Foolish burial for cost is a stupid idea and should never be a thing. "Costs" like that are beyond broken should never be made on principle 😑
You skipped over one of the biggest reasons BA suffered from master rule 4 with no BA link untill cherubini the deck was unplayable because making a link monster meant all your main deck BA monsters immediately died upon summon so being able to summon monsters at all was more the issue without cherubini the deck would have been essentially executed by Konami by the mechanics of the game changing this same phenomenon was prevalent with D/D/D aswell master rule 4 killed plenty of decks to fix the problems with the pendulum mechanic BA was just collateral damage in that sense
I think the biggest problem with BA is the fact that it is so xenophobic. It makes it harder to take advantage of new support engines and cards. You have very limited options to keep your BA’s alive.
@lynaperez8022 shit bro that was 3 months ago I deleted masterduel when I got bored of vernusylph madolche like 3 weeks ago, with all the cards they banned and limited my pk fire deck died
Well isizu happening it's not bad playing swoswo but it's not that great match up against isizu it's just kick out not because it's power creep out it's just have really abysmal match up against isizu same like tri-bri.
you only ever use the fusion if Beatrice gets destroyed Also it's not really as xenophobic as you're making it out to be. All you have to do is link into Cherubini and then you have a sanctuary for your BAs. Getting rid of the xenophobia doesn't really make the deck better because it's kind of all about playing around that. Letting them get destroyed to trigger their effects.
![I Beat The WORST PvZ Knockoff [The Movie]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/l80FJTCGUuU/mqdefault.jpg)
Genuinely though, BA was so good at one point, it was winning YCS'!
The decklist for full power Burning Abyss can be found here:
bit.ly/3in9is3
Why trickstar, virtual world, Qliphoth, drytron, yang zing and salamangreat died?
All these decks *were tier 1 at their time, i probably already know the reason, but i love to watch the details you guys put on the videos.
that Mask change II play with the mind crush tech against nekroz searching was the MOST LIT EVER, I saw that ISH live and it reignited my DUELING SPIRIT
@@miyu8823 hand traps, power creep, people move on
@MiYu trickstar lost droll reincarnation, vw lost vfd, qli is old and shit, dry lost...a bunch of stuff I think idk, yang zing lost denglong, salad lost copies of gazelle & circle and is old and shit
Edit: trickstar got droll reincarnation back! I didn't realise! It's just old and shit
Have you guys talked about Plunder Patroll?
Burning abyss is probably the only archetype in the game that naturally died of old age.
thats..that's... kinda deep bro ur right
Burned into an Abyss
Gadgets and Geargia kinda did too tbf.
They need to give ba some cool support the artwork is sick they could do so mutch with it i mean japanese they really like christian mythology its insane that the deck still did not got any support for 8 years
@@Gjaku It's technically not christian.
Farfa needs to watch this
God dammit someone beat me to it. But not as much as Farfa beats the dead BA horse
Farfa : I'm die, thank you forever
"CL1 cir target Dante, CL2 Dante target cir"
@@cladiosanchez6865 trolldespair
9 years trolldespair
what i love about burning abyss is the ART. this is the only archetype that comes close to being similar to an MTG artstyle
How about Noble Knights?
Spell books/prophecy have that one card that looks like it was meant to be an mtg card, but like, if you want your cards to look like mtg cards, theres this game from Hasbro/Wotc called Magic: The Gathering.
Outer entities are pretty similar to MTG cards art too
@@tickledeggz whoa 🤯
@@tickledeggz OMFG YES IT'S *PROPHECY DESTROYER* I TELL EVERYONE ABOUT HOW SICK HE IS
Chain link 1 Cir targets Dante, Chain link 2 Dante targets *troll despair*
Oh hey fellow Farfa viewer
9 YEARS
JOEL
Thats not even the best loop. The best loop was dual dnate, firelake, and traveler. 3 free pops and rcycling lake and traveler and dnate
Farfa played it for so long that we all wake up in the night screaming "CL1: Cir target dante, CL2: Dante target Cir" or snap awake in a cold sweat because we had dream about dropping effect veiler on cherubini.
Going neg 1 after realizing it's cost
Burning Abyss is interesting because it is one of arctypes that have a lot of summoning mechanics, even the popular mechanic from BA only the Link and XYZ. But it will be very interesting if Konami can make other mechanics like Synchro, Ritual, and Fusion BA more playable too.
Tell us you play Branded without telling us
@@shadowbandit147 idgi that comment had nothing to do with branded
@@dragon-id5uj yeah but you just want BA to have branded end boards. Branded whole gimmick is being able to make almost whatever ED monster you want and what you described sounds like BA's version of that.
@@shadowbandit147 the dude is specifically talking about in-archetype extra deck monsters of the different extra deck types being relevant rather than the ability of a deck which can summon every extra deck monster type, in which BA and branded have nothing in common in this regard since the only in-archetype extra deck monster type that branded have is obviously fusion, in which case BA can be compared to magikey or odd-eyes
@@konolinkuda3586 ohhhhhh if that's the the case then mb. I'm sorry dragon for coming at you like that. Branded has me a bit salty in MD and I mistook your comment as saying "BA should be able to summon any ED Monster"
How does "Burning Abyss" not have an archetypal field spell? They literally have a place as their archetype name, it writes itself goddammit.
Because you have to have no S/T cards on the field to special summon them from hand. So the field spell would have to be played after your make you initial plays, and the question is whether you could have an effect worth actually waiting until later in the combo to play.
@@superbr0ws015 you could easily circumvent that with a line of text. Something like "you may special summon burning abyss monsters by their own effect, ignoring their summoning conditions." Or maybe just make it so that the field spell specifically is exempt from that effect. Then also make it so they don't blow themselves up. Anything else beyond that is just icing.
@Dr. Fun bro just made up a mechanic haha you can't ignore a summoning condition and then proceed to fulfill it...can you?
@@YeahTheDuckweed I ain't a card text lawyer but you get what I'm going for. Use the special summon, ignore the need for no spells or traps. I think the other way I mentioned is actually better though, where the field spell exempts itself from that effect.
@@Doc_Fun I think we should just not give ba a field spell haha we don't have to powercreep a fundamental archetypal mechanic in my imo
Speaking of Master rule 4, I wasn't playing at the time, but I would like an in depth analysis on Knightmare Goblin and or Knightmare Mermaid and how they changed the meta, maybe on an episode of the Banhammer
One of them gave you an additional normal summon, the other one let you make full orcust combo with any 2 monsters. Not really game changing, meta defining maybe, but honestly mermaid isnt that different to Halqifibrax in terms of usage. I'd say both are equivalent to Lavaval chain in their respective Metagames (single card engine that's easily accessible from the extra deck, and can acheive almost any board, if used correctly)
Nightmare Goblin was a menace because it gave every deck that can put two different names monsters on the field the ability to get an extra normal summon that was always available because it was an extra deck monster. And unlike brilliant fusion you didn't have to run any garnets (heh) in main deck so your deck can be as consistent as you wanted and still have the ability to extend your combos via extra normal summon. Hell it could even draw a card if it was co linked which was nice bonus.
Mermaid is interesting because it and Orcust Knightmare made it so that any two monsters on the field can go into a full Orcust combo VERY consistently. This meant that any deck could splash in an orcust package and take advantage of the power of the Orcust cards. Searchable omni negate, galatea, ding etc are really good to be so easily accessible at the time 😀
@@tickledeggz You're insane
You know how any 2 monsters make Verte make whatever fusion was pretty much in every rogue deck that couldn't do anything else or extra gas for more meta combo decks? Imagine that with Orcust cards
@@ashikjaman1940 honestly sounds worse haha
I’ve been wanting a field spell just called “The Burning Abyss” for ages. It keeping them from killing themselves would be very awesome, and I think the trade off of locking the special summon ability down is kinda fair and could still be played around, or it could just grant them the same effect but with “other than this card” stapled on. And shoot, while I’m asking for it, throw a 500 point stat pump on there or something, why not
effect 1: when activated search 1 BA from deck
effect 2: BA monsters you control cannot be destroyed by card effects
effect 3: if sent to grave recycles BA cards to draw (so multiple copies aren't useless in hand/deck)
It would be perfect.
They'll probably give them support next year for the 10th anniversary. I'm calling it.
8 years and still no support
With a gy effect just to piss ppl off
You didn’t mention Fiendish Rhino. It disallows self destruction when other monsters are on the field.
Probably because its super niche and would like an easy to search burning abyss by name I guess, but you're completely right Fiendish Rhino is/was a great sub
@@tekken425 rhino was a godsent, rhino+any BA = normal rhino, special BA from hand, make dante then detatch rhino to mill 3, rhino sends cir/graf and you go off from there...
especially after cherubini was relesead, but then we all know the deck became phantom knight and not BA
They'll be back. They're not old to the point of being outright awful and are too cool to ignore forever. Something like an in-archetype Tour Guide than when sent to the graveyard makes all your BA indestructible until your next turn.
I mean adventure phantom knight was heat at the start of 2022, that's like 1 step away from BA being meta
Another thing I think really hurt the deck was the increased prevalence of handtraps making Tour Guide a significantly worse opener. It was limited for such a long time because of how easily you could kickstart BA combos with it, but nowadays most BA players (myself included) don't even run max copies of it anymore because if its effect gets negated, you pretty much lose your turn (and thus the game) since you can't get BAs on the board anymore.
Honestly surprised you guys didn't mention that Beatrice floats into Pilgrim, which while isn't the greatest boss monster, still does a lot for BA and gives you even more advantage and is untargetable by your opponent. Plus getting to knock a card out of your opponent's hand when it's sent to the GY is yet another free plus.
BA support is in a way restricted through lore. They printed the Malebranche, Dante, Vergil, Beatrice, and argumentably the Devil. They could add characters like Charon, Cerberus, Phlegias, Minos, Geryon or the Giants for example as Extradeck monsters but they have a short appearance in the Inferno. The more lore fitting support in my opinion would be a series of protected fieldspells with artworks inspired by Botticelli or Dali which resemble different circles of hell which punish the souls for their combo, handtrap or floodgate (...) sins. Or just make an extension archetype which evolves around Purgatorio or Heaven or even around the description of hell from Vergil's Aeneis or Homer's Odyssee.
Farfa would tell you otherwise... 9 years TrollDespair
Isn't Farfa the only one seriously playing this deck? I played it a while in Master Duel, but it is too much of a glass cannon.
You can run BA Tearlament and hope you mill Tears but I don't see much else to do with them honestly.
Don't make me take my Dinomorphia BA deck to events.
I think it would be interesting to cover an archetype that was never reallyyyy that good, and explain why its never been good and what it would need to become good.
I would like a ba monster that when normal or special summon has a tour guide effect . And a continuous trap like Psy frame over load that destroys a BA on field or hand and suffles back a card on the field with no target ....to be more relevant in this meta protection effects
or maybe a spell like branded opening (discard to add/special 1 BA)
@@findout2655 that would be also could and would be better if it made them unable to destroy them from their own effect , in case u drew it after u enstablised board
The correct title for this video was "Why the BA die?"
It has been 9 god dayum years!... TrollDespair
Would love to see one of these on Shaddolls
They’re not dead
I've been thinking about what BA needs, a bit - no expert with the deck, though. Snow being hit is obviously a big problem, so I think something that fills her place somewhat, a more archetype-restricted option that can activate as a quick from GY for some disruption, rather than needing to trigger on a new chain after being sent, would give them some more reactivity and proactivity. A link-3/4 that can be made with less restricted materials than Cherubini would be good too, so that you can clean up your field of non-BA names more easily. In terms of lore-wise, the tortured spirits of Hell would fit well as things that live in the GY and activate there, and Satan himself is one of the big notable things from the Divine Comedy that is missing, and I would previously have said that Konami would probably shy away from that, but we *do* have Darklord Morningstar, so...
I've thought about a link-3 as the most suitable supplement as well:
A Link-3 (BL, B, BR), that if summoned or sent to grave copies the effects of any one BA in the grave. thats it.
It could for example copy Cherubini on summon to protect your BA's it points to and Farfa when sent to grave to rid of your opponents cards.
It's versatile enough to be both an extender and an endboard piece, leaves room for interaction with possible other support or synergistic engines without being too generic to become it's own broken engine in other decks (i hope), since all it does is depend on and interact with other BA's.
Some flexible disruption from inside the grave would certainly be great too, but as you pointed out yourself, clearing the field of non-BA's without loosing a bunch of BA's on field when you remove Cherubini is a big issue. what i could imagine as an interesting addition would be something akin to Sky Striker's eagle boosters, where you can protect your monsters, but in this case not by having no monsters in the MMZ but instead through sending a BA/Fiend from deck to grave, that then could trigger for some interuption (Alich, Farfa or Calcab for example).
Lorewise im not too well-written, so i cannot estimate how likely these ideas would fit into the narrative, nor how likely/"correct" your suggestions about the "tortured spirits of hell" is, but the idea of a sort of "archetypal Fairy Tail - Snow" is quite intriguing, tho has to be managed carefully.
I think a new Vergil would be cool since he's "kinda" important in the story of Dante's Inferno lol
When I started playing the second time was when Dark Law came out im a big HERO fan and all the BA players hated me at locals
BA has always been a fun archetype to play (not necessarily always the case for your opponent, especially back in the day). Cool artwork as well. But they definitely need some help if they want to be relevant in a competirive environment.
For other topics in this series, with the upcoming infernity spell support, maybe they would make for a decent topic. As their problem lies in not having a hand, they have to go full gas no brakes combo and make a board full of negates (if they dont get hand trapped that is) to compensate for their inability to utilise handtraps or quick play spells that can help stop handtraps like crossout and called by the grave. Back then they could get away with this as there were less handtraps and going first felt amazing. But nowadays theyre not even rogue anymore, just a locals one trick deck.
We need the unlimiting of sekka's light on the combo side. I played the 37 monster 3 sekka build for over a year and it allowed some crazy plays usually (towards the end) ending on apo with ip +link 2 for avramax and a beatrice. It's a really weird deck to look at cause, while it is xenophobic you can still play a lot of good extenders (The psychic level 3's that special summon if you have a level 3 on field helping push through tour guide getting ashed for example, or the baby chaos dragons when they were at 3, and SNOW being gone has hurt, along with the dangers being so busted for the archtype) meaning it is a very good link climb deck, even now it is used as an engine in a lot of non adventure PK lists since you can use tour guide as a 1 card full combo. What we need tho is just a better boss monster as stated, probably something with a negate built in, or BA that shuts off the self destruction effect, like a special summon fiendish essentially. Either that or what is meta now being banned into the ground. I have done some testing with the Ishizu cards but sadly it just feels like a worse dante in the deck. TLDR: a boss with a negate and a form of protection outside of cherubini or fiendish, maybe a in archtype soul charge as well.
The strongest era of BA at any time since MR4 was BEFORE Cherubini released.
The deck was great throughout 2018 but folded the first time Fairy Tail - Snow got banned.
1) A new level 3 main deck BA that searches 1 "Burning Abyss" CARD from Deck to hand when sent to GY.
2) A new Field Spell that reads "When this card is Activated; You can take 1 "Burning Abyss" monster from your Deck and either Special Summon it, or Send it to the GY. Special Summoned Level 3 "Burning Abyss" monsters have their effects negated as long as they are face-up on the field. Once per turn: If your opponent controls at least 1 monster that was Special Summoned from the Extra Deck; You can Special Summon 1 "Burning Abyss" monster from your hand, But it cannot attack or be used as Material for Link, Synchro or Fusion Summons."
So you want to power creep Scarm and then make card that prevents BAs from special summoning themselves from the hand, got it.
@@Harmonic14 How does it negate the special summon from hand? 😄 And yes, Scarm is ultimately way too slow and doesn't keep up with the speed of every other main deck monster.
@@AstralXMidnight Field spells are spell cards. You can't special BA monsters with the in hand effect when you control any S/T.
@@TrueScotsman96Ahhhh.... Damnit 🤣🤣🤣 Well instead of a field spell, we could make that a BA Link-3. :)
Joel
What killed BA?
Invalid question because the BA no die
more like ocg konami being reluctant to give them more support
One idea: a link 3 from 3 level/rank/link 3s. 3 downward pointing arrows. And it gives the Cherubini protection.
hope you'll get more and more subscribers, such quality content!
I don't know how much it counts, but when I hear 'deck that just fell off the face of the earth,' the first thing that comes to my mind is Gladiator Beasts' brief fall from grace in September 2008. It was arguably the best deck in the format from about May 2008(after the emergency ban list put down DAD Return) until the release of Duelist Genesis and the Sept. 2008 ban list. Shockingly, despite being the toppest of top dogs, Glads got absolutely zero hits on that list. It was coming into Duelist Genesis format completely untouched, and was also gaining Equeste and War Chariot. But even with all of that, TDGS allowed Tele-DAD to be born, which complete erased Glads, and everything else, out of competitive viability for six whole months.
A top tier, unstoppable powerhouse of a deck, completely put to bed for half a year not because of any ban list hits, but entirely because of power creep. Insanity.
Well what about because ruling happening like the cases dino rabbit and ignition priority got remove or new ruling to x-saber Dark Souls ruling errata.
CL1 CIR TARGET DANTE, CL2 DANTE TARGET CIR. Best interaction in the game to this day
When PK fire became popular for the first time the deck was extremely fun. It felt like there was always some line you had to deal with your opponent, so many choices on What to do. After that I havent enjoyed Any deck or format as much.
sooo i would love to see you cover Inzektors in this type of series , also i say Farfa (the streamer) killed BA :)
omg they made Farfa from RUclips as a yugioh card
I once used the term "xenophobic" when referring to how some archetypes like BA work and farfa made a point to say I was stupid for using the word incorrectly lmao
The deck is still good and fun to play even though it isn’t up there with the meta contenders. I think it’s a couple cards away from being tier 1 or 2 again. Maybe another Link or XYZ boss monster
Man everyone forgets about spyral a t0 threat that was a tcg exclusive.
You forgot Kaijus. Thats still the best archetype used in any deck more so than dangers still. That came out in Eng first also Spyral.... nough said. Its easy to forget that the TCG came out with some good archetypes
This video feels like Evil Farfa...
Beatrice needs an errata to be a BA so it doesn't blow up the other BA or we need a BA with a Field effect that all BA cant be destroyed by their own effect to replace fiendish rhino warrior. and we need Beatrice to 3!
If Konami would add new burning abyss cards they should base them off Dantes journey through purgatory and the heavens but make sure they have synergies with the burning abyss cards. Just on case they're named something different for lore reasons
Out of the Burning Abyss is a thematic name that could work
Thsi series is great. Keep up the good work
What killed Invoked, and maybe even Adventure are also nice topics
We already did a video covering Invoked, make sure to check it out! Adventure is definitely a good one though ! =)
Dont forget In the official timeline of release they held back cherobini while releasing called by the grave first. Also official new direct support for ba is needed. Think of dragonlink, striker, altergiest, and all these other archtypes get alot of new support. Even shaddoll got better new support. BA has to contend against so many banishing from the grave, and while new archtypes like exosister inherently out it, and so does bystial. Fusion ba's, or ritual ba's or link ba's could possibly work. They can do stacking XYZ mechanics too. They can add new spells and traps. We need HELP KONAMI! MAKE BURNING ABYSS META AGAIN!
Great Video, very enjoyable :)
Cyber Angels was apparently really good at one point, although I missed the boat on that one. It's still good on duel links, but in the main game it sucks. I guess Konami is too afraid to buff it because of Drytron and Heralds, which really isn't fair on the deck.
BA sadly has no real turn 2 plays and has a terrible time playing through disruptions nowadays. the only real thing BA can do now is hoping to go first so they can summon I:P mascerena + beatrice pass. sadly the only way BA has seen SOME success in the past years was a trap-heavy built with stuff like trap trick, ice-prison and so on. which has become terribly slow in modern yugioh.
the deck really needs a good boss-monster that can clear stuff turn 2 without instantly dieing to a simple kind of disruption. also the deck needs a pseudo-tourguide that has BA in its name, so the deck doesnt instantly fold when your opponent has any kind of stuff like imperm, veiler, ashblossom, droplet and so on. tourguide just cloggs the field
These are good content depending on the archetype, BA is a perfect choice to discuss!
The shield field spell is a mice idea
I want it to go old school and get Virgil and Fire Lake retrains. Like a hand trap Fire Lake that sends from the deck for cost and a non-targeting, non-OPT Rank 3 Xyz Virgil that gets the draw any way it leaves the field.
Lmao the amount of times people people tried to impermanence cherubini. Also I usually set a card before activating cherubini for when people tried to get cheeky with gamma on cherubini effect
Or effect veiler... I guess that's how people learn about costs.
@Edgar Nova the best was when I ran lair/infeenoids. Tribute their monster "hey I have a response to the activation!" Tributes for cost buddy
I feel like you're over-estimating how xenophobic BA actually are while building/playing them. Between the destruction immunity given by Rhino and Cherubini, Dante not having the xenophobia clause, and the tendency of BA to not stay on the field you have a lot of options. For a good idea of what I mean, take a look at Hydralander BA with Sekka's Light (my personal favorite version of the deck). Only ran like 9-10 Burning Abyss monsters tops, with the rest being a bunch of monsters that would summon themselves. PK Fire is another good example.
Why the BA die?
For the case of Djinn Releaser of Rituals, can the level of the material exceed the number needed? Like can I ritual summon Relinquished, with this card from the graveyard?
Ah yes, master rule 4, the moment everyone of my friends and myself quit the game.
What killed Virtual World would explain powercreep well
We may have you covered soon 👀
- Adam
VFD being banned
It wasn't really powercreep as much as it was that they banned VFD
@@benito1620 Even without VFD, the archetype overall and their card advantage was great. Newer Synchro archetypes like PUNK and Swordsoul were so much stronger in design and were released only a year after. It’s not as simply as saying “VFD died they lost a boss monster lol”
@@CardmarketYGO Thank you ❤ Hope your content gets more interaction, love the quality you put into these videos
Missed the opportunity to name the video "why the Ba die"
So BA never needed Cherubini at the start of MR4. We all thought the deck was dead then but it was actually good at the start. That's not the reason BA isn't good anymore.
deck was really good with the hydrolander, snow and sekka light build. Thomas rose made it relevant again then konami realized snow was dumb
I have a ull plan for a field spell.
Name; 7 layers of the burning abyss.
Pay 1000lp to activate this card. Burning abyss monsters cannot be destoyed by card effects you activate while this card is on the field. Once per turn. Banish 1 card that mentions dante in its name or description from the grave and add a burnming abyss monster from your gy to your hand.
Missed opportunity to bring Farfa on lmao
Isn’t BA supposed to get a structure deck??
Why the BA yes die?
ngl would be interesting to see a retrain of malacoda
More content like this please
Maybe how lightsworn died ? Rly loved playing them but i feel like i just cant find any good variants anymore
Ich werde nie ein anderes Deck anfassen, PK abyss (60 cards big abyss engine), labrynth abyss, BA pure.. es gibt so viele gründe BA zu spielen, die schönsten artworks, eine aktive Spielmechanik ohne 30 Minuten Kombi! Liebe
Are people doing much with the agent archetype or parshath archetype anymore??
Love this content
My all time favourite deck 😀
“shoddolls nekroz burning abyss”
and qliphort.
The great killer: Time
say the line guys
"WHY THE BA NO DIE?!" 😭
- Adam
BA troll despair
I know BA is kinda dead but I absolutely despise Cherubini. Foolish burial for cost is a stupid idea and should never be a thing. "Costs" like that are beyond broken should never be made on principle 😑
Even Rusty Bardiche is insane. I despise it.
Boy, have you heard of mathmech circular? It was just added to master duel.
@@Ragnarok540 yes and that is also stupid despite spright being the top deck. Just not a fan of "costs" like that
Talk about kozmos!
I still use em in my dark world deck. Can send them off field spell, still can search broww
Short answer is: because there was a non BA on your field
You skipped over one of the biggest reasons BA suffered from master rule 4 with no BA link untill cherubini the deck was unplayable because making a link monster meant all your main deck BA monsters immediately died upon summon so being able to summon monsters at all was more the issue without cherubini the deck would have been essentially executed by Konami by the mechanics of the game changing this same phenomenon was prevalent with D/D/D aswell master rule 4 killed plenty of decks to fix the problems with the pendulum mechanic BA was just collateral damage in that sense
CL1 cir target dante CL2 dante target sir never die saj
I think the biggest problem with BA is the fact that it is so xenophobic. It makes it harder to take advantage of new support engines and cards. You have very limited options to keep your BA’s alive.
give em a shaddoll fusion or smthn as well as a good fusion target
Burning abyss needs more spells and traps. They only got 4 lol
Pk grass fire still has me in diamond rank. Destroys the current meta other than despia
whats ur deck list?
@lynaperez8022 shit bro that was 3 months ago I deleted masterduel when I got bored of vernusylph madolche like 3 weeks ago, with all the cards they banned and limited my pk fire deck died
Suggestion for another episode of Obliterate: Swordsoul. Was it just power creeped? Or did something specific to the meta happen?
Well isizu happening it's not bad playing swoswo but it's not that great match up against isizu it's just kick out not because it's power creep out it's just have really abysmal match up against isizu same like tri-bri.
Decks topping ycses again. Bystials being able to trigger the l10 on demand is a nice addition
I've got a friend that still plays ba and its his fav deck. Mine is phantom knights.
Why did invoked died and what card would make it relevant again?
We actually did a video on this!
Check it out:
ruclips.net/video/qPJq7woeNhQ/видео.html
- Adam
I fell like one particular youtuber/streamer should have been there in the video
Why the BA Die: The Video
BA was still good in MR4. I have played BA since 2014
It's not dead as soon as new generic grave based cards come along they will be all over that same for shaddoll
So BA died Sadge
Did you try to get Farfa on this vid? You got Vlad to come on for a few things, so maybe you're talking?
"Why BA die?"
you only ever use the fusion if Beatrice gets destroyed
Also it's not really as xenophobic as you're making it out to be. All you have to do is link into Cherubini and then you have a sanctuary for your BAs. Getting rid of the xenophobia doesn't really make the deck better because it's kind of all about playing around that. Letting them get destroyed to trigger their effects.
So Dante and Cir created the final circle of hell, huh? 😂