I follow the prophet full stop. But anyone who dismisses this principle or ordinance or higher law etc etc (whatever you want to call it) IMHO doesn’t quite understand the full Gospel. (Im not saying I do) but I do know enough to know that there is something here. Abrahamic test? Maybe. I just know that when one is over the target you see the most flak (or resistance). So with such passionate resistance from almost everyone, makes me reserve judgment till I can gather greater light and knowledge.
So why didn’t Pres. Kimball use his "keys" to allow ALL men to have the priesthood instead of going through so much agony in getting the Quorum to accept it first before he declared the proclamation to the Church?
Jacob 2 and Doctrine & Covenants 132 are in agreement. Both denounce unauthorized polygamy. Both mention there are authorized exceptions to standard monogamy. Doctrine & Covenants goes into much more detail than Jacob 2. The Bible also mentions levirate marriages.
There is a huge misconception about the interpreted "exception" in Jacob 2 that we are continuing to propagate. It really isn't hard if you read the chapter in context. Jacob 2:23-34 is a chiasmus with the verse in question in the middle of the chiasmus. Looking at it this way you will see that Jacob is not endorsing multiple wives and concubines. Jacob says in verse 23 and 29, thus saith the Lord that the whoredoms (that people have justified doing like David and Solomon of having multiple wives and concubines because they don’t understand the scriptures) are an abomination before the Lord. Pretty clear so far. Then here is our traditional interpretation: For if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, 1.) raise up seed unto me [want my people to have lots of babies], 2.) I will command my people [to have many wives]; 3.) otherwise they shall hearken unto these things [obey the traditional commandment of one man and one wife]. So the Lord under this interpretation says it is okay to practice what he just declared for several verses before as abominable before his eyes? Here is the correct interpretation that is consistent with every other verse in the Book of Mormon on this topic. For by multiple witnesses is truth/interpretation confirmed. The key is in verse 25 25. “I have led this people [BoM people] forth out of the land of Jerusalem…that I might RAISE UP unto me a righteous branch.” 26. Lord tells us he doesn’t want this people [BoM] to do like they [David, Solomon, Jews, etc] did of old 27. Lord gets clearer on what he just said - “for there shall not any man among you have save it be one wife; and concubines he shall have none” 28. Lord declared what he just mentioned that those “whoredoms ARE an abomination before me” 29. “This people shall keep my commandments [of not practicing whoredoms]…or cursed be the land for their sakes” 30. For if I will RAISE UP seed unto me I will command me people [to do what? Look at the chiamus, what did he say in verse 25 about what the Lord would do to raise up seed - it is to leave on an exodus, from where wickedness is being practiced] otherwise they shall hearken unto these things [abominations]. 32. Then the chiasmus descends to echo the beginning “I will not suffer that the cries of the fair daughters of this people [BoM people], which I have LED OUT OF THE LAND of Jerusalem…” to practice this abomination which is one of the reasons the Lord took them out of Jerusalem! 34. The Nephites have come under great condemnation for this practice. Continuing to Jacob 3:5 after condemning the covenant people [Nephites], he praises the Lamanites because “they have not forgotten the commandment of the Lord, which was given unto our father [Lehi] that they should have save it were one wife and concubines they should have none” There we have it! Jacob just told us that one of the reasons that Lehi left Jerusalem was so that they wouldn’t practice polygamy. To raise up seed to a righteous (quality not quantity) branch isn’t about having as many kids as possible, it is about raising them away from wickedness
A thorough reading of Jacob 2 condemns polygamy. Jacob teaches Lehi was brought out of Jerusalem due in part to the immorality there -and that is why punishments came on them - and indicates Lehi's family must obey the law of chastity or the land will be cursed for their sakes - vs 30 clarifies in raising up a seed unto him, the people will keep his commandments (chastity) or they shall hearken unto "these things" - which throughout the chapter refers to punishments for wickedness. Interesting that after starting polygamy, the saints were driven out of their lands -and they did not get out of debt until after they disavowed polygamy
@@davidtorbenson4686 persecution = you must have sinned. Tell me then what sin did Christ commit that he was crucified. Not all trials we go through in this life are do to consequences of our actions. 2 Nephi 2, Job, and other stories in the scriptures teach against this erroneous thinking. It’s the your afflicted because you sinned fallacy. Jesus when ask why a certain man was born blind who sinned his father or himself. Jesus told them that neither sinned. There are consequences to our actions, but there are other variables that come into play in mortality like being in a fallen world or others using their agency to act unrighteously.
@@andrewdurfee3896 A great point - as humans, we look at both history in general and our own personal experience, and determine if negative events are due to general life experience/the actions of others or due to consequences for the actions of those who are suffering the consequences. Sometimes it may be a bit of both. Typically, people make those assignments to reinforce their own beliefs. Jacob 2: 26-29 - a book written for our day - clearly teaches that the Lord will not suffer the people to do like them of old and have concubines - and His people will keep the commandments, or the land will be cursed. This statement is scripture. So, it really comes down to whether one feels that this teaching of Jacob applies (even partially) to a specific scenario or not.
why don't you guys bother getting the timeline right? according to you Emma allowed joseph to marry 4 women and 'teach them the principle' (according to emily partridge)..... two months BEFORE this revelation was allegedly shown to emma. How does emma not know about the revelation and be able to teach it? Lets be honest about the contradictions here.
on pres oack and nelson mariages. :they re not practicing poly since they live with only one woman.will they be polygynist in the next life? most likely ,as i am too. in my pat. blessing i have promess that i would renew my covenant with my wifes. plural . a blessing i received before i was even married. god s blessing will not be stopped by unjust men( politicians)
I don’t even believe what you said . President oaks said we do not know how a second wife works . Just trust that all is glorious . I do not believe your PB says what you said . Put up A copy of it . Never would I. Believe that .
I don't decide for the Lord what to start or finish I try to seek his will and follow his Prophets I try not to judge none of us is perfect Don't throw stones especially when we don't have true understanding
Plural marriage is not a principle. A principle suggests truth and righteousness. Nothing righteous about plurality of wives. All throughout the Book of Mormon, which Brother Joseph said is the keystone of our religion and the most correct book ever, and the Lord Jesus Christ Himself, in 3rd Nephi had ample opportunity to teach a "higher law". Instead He stated very clearly, "anything more or less is not of me." Brigham's doctrine is far and away more than what we are required by Jesus to live with God in His kingdom. "A man will get closer to God by following the things taught in the Book of Mormon." Book of Mormon is a momogomy marriage book. Joseph fought polygamy up until the day he died. All of his "plural wives" were married to him AFTER he was dead. D&C is full of false doctrine. Brigham placed it in the D&C 30 years after Joseph was killed in 1876 to justify his false doctrine. Number the pm doctrine among his other false doctrines. Blacks never worthy to hold priesthood. Blood atonement, and Adam God doctrine. Just chock it up as one of his false doctrines. This cpm is a doctrine of the devil. Just BECAUSE it is said to be sanctioned by God when it is not. It's a trap. Its dark. And it has no place in the kingdom of God, The Lord Himself even said so. Section 132 stands alone. It has no scriptural witnesses. Too many false things said in 132. It is clearly questionable. Get a real expert to come on your shpw to answer questions. Brian Hales is like putting the inmates in charge of the asylum. He has lost any credibility he ever had because he promotes false doctrine.
Polygamy was a horrible system. The women were treated horribly, and even families that 'looked fine together' in church fought like cats and dogs at home. Horrible system. The true heros of the early church are those sisters that were forced into this bondage. Even men who were satisfied with only one wife were forced to take another or they never received church callings, got bad assignments etc. I understand the principle....but it's practice was...again...HORRIBLE.
apparently you dont understand the practice. no where in the bible people receive reproach from god about their polygyny, on the contrary god prrsent himself as husband of 2wifes, and tell king david if he had wanted more he would have given him (he had already 9 wifes and concubines. ) jacob in the bom claim god command monogamy but doesnt point to that law under moses law they were living under.i think after 2000 years of pagan law of monogamy ,going poly on the fly ,being pursued across the country at gun point didnt make it easy for anyone. god commande it so the HORRIBLE part is on human faults not god s commands.
@@francoisrobillard3164 Like I said...I understand it's principle... but the forced system upon the female immigrants to Utah was abhorrant. If they decided to leave Utah they were either killed or denied their children. Those early Wasatch Range Mormons were HORRIBLE. And now 8 of those early Danite families run the church today. Oh...I promise you the way most of those men treated their wives... THEY WILL RECEIVE REPROACH FROM GOD. Not all did it for 'altruistic' reasons.
@@francoisrobillard3164😮 God did repr. God did indeed reproach those in the bible living polygamy. In the Book of Mormon he declared it a whoredom and an abomination and it broke the hearts of His daughters and their children lost confidence in their fathers. polygamy is that abomination and whoredom.
No one was forced . Not ever . All members did not live this law . And the first wife had to approve . And you could leave or divorce if you did not like it . But this was not even in Nauvoo . Joseph Smith and Hyrum did not do polygamy . And if you did you were excommunicated . Joseph Smith had only one wife her name was Emma . Emma never agreed . Read doctrine and covenants . I did know that Orson Hyde was next for prophet but they changed the order . Orson Hyde was excommunicated. . For signing a document that put Joseph smith and others in jail . But he was kind of tricked . He got forgiven and was put back as an apostle . The apostle they picked to replace him died . His is a long story .
![ROSÉ (로제) - number one girl [더 시즌즈-이영지의 레인보우] | KBS 241129 방송](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/A9oByH9Ci24/mqdefault.jpg)
I follow the prophet full stop. But anyone who dismisses this principle or ordinance or higher law etc etc (whatever you want to call it) IMHO doesn’t quite understand the full Gospel. (Im not saying I do) but I do know enough to know that there is something here. Abrahamic test? Maybe. I just know that when one is over the target you see the most flak (or resistance). So with such passionate resistance from almost everyone, makes me reserve judgment till I can gather greater light and knowledge.
“Everlasting” had a short half-life.
Great job guys!!
NOT❗️
So why didn’t Pres. Kimball use his "keys" to allow ALL men to have the priesthood instead of going through so much agony in getting the Quorum to accept it first before he declared the proclamation to the Church?
what happened to the next podcast with Hayles?
Jacob 2 and Doctrine & Covenants 132 are in agreement. Both denounce unauthorized polygamy. Both mention there are authorized exceptions to standard monogamy. Doctrine & Covenants goes into much more detail than Jacob 2. The Bible also mentions levirate marriages.
There is a huge misconception about the interpreted "exception" in Jacob 2 that we are continuing to propagate. It really isn't hard if you read the chapter in context. Jacob 2:23-34 is a chiasmus with the verse in question in the middle of the chiasmus. Looking at it this way you will see that Jacob is not endorsing multiple wives and concubines. Jacob says in verse 23 and 29, thus saith the Lord that the whoredoms (that people have justified doing like David and Solomon of having multiple wives and concubines because they don’t understand the scriptures) are an abomination before the Lord. Pretty clear so far. Then here is our traditional interpretation: For if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, 1.) raise up seed unto me [want my people to have lots of babies], 2.) I will command my people [to have many wives]; 3.) otherwise they shall hearken unto these things [obey the traditional commandment of one man and one wife].
So the Lord under this interpretation says it is okay to practice what he just declared for several verses before as abominable before his eyes? Here is the correct interpretation that is consistent with every other verse in the Book of Mormon on this topic. For by multiple witnesses is truth/interpretation confirmed. The key is in verse 25 25. “I have led this people [BoM people] forth out of the land of Jerusalem…that I might RAISE UP unto me a righteous branch.” 26. Lord tells us he doesn’t want this people [BoM] to do like they [David, Solomon, Jews, etc] did of old 27. Lord gets clearer on what he just said - “for there shall not any man among you have save it be one wife; and concubines he shall have none” 28. Lord declared what he just mentioned that those “whoredoms ARE an abomination before me”
29. “This people shall keep my commandments [of not practicing whoredoms]…or cursed be the land for their sakes” 30. For if I will RAISE UP seed unto me I will command me people [to do what? Look at the chiamus, what did he say in verse 25 about what the Lord would do to raise up seed - it is to leave on an exodus, from where wickedness is being practiced] otherwise they shall hearken unto these things [abominations]. 32. Then the chiasmus descends to echo the beginning “I will not suffer that the cries of the fair daughters of this people [BoM people], which I have LED OUT OF THE LAND of Jerusalem…” to practice this abomination which is one of the reasons the Lord took them out of Jerusalem! 34. The Nephites have come under great condemnation for this practice. Continuing to Jacob 3:5 after condemning the covenant people [Nephites], he praises the Lamanites because “they have not forgotten the commandment of the Lord, which was given unto our father [Lehi]
that they should have save it were one wife and concubines they should have none”
There we have it! Jacob just told us that one of the reasons that Lehi left Jerusalem was so that they wouldn’t practice polygamy. To raise up seed to a righteous (quality not quantity) branch isn’t about having as many kids as possible, it is about raising them away from wickedness
A thorough reading of Jacob 2 condemns polygamy. Jacob teaches Lehi was brought out of Jerusalem due in part to the immorality there -and that is why punishments came on them - and indicates Lehi's family must obey the law of chastity or the land will be cursed for their sakes - vs 30 clarifies in raising up a seed unto him, the people will keep his commandments (chastity) or they shall hearken unto "these things" - which throughout the chapter refers to punishments for wickedness.
Interesting that after starting polygamy, the saints were driven out of their lands -and they did not get out of debt until after they disavowed polygamy
@@davidtorbenson4686 persecution = you must have sinned. Tell me then what sin did Christ commit that he was crucified. Not all trials we go through in this life are do to consequences of our actions. 2 Nephi 2, Job, and other stories in the scriptures teach against this erroneous thinking. It’s the your afflicted because you sinned fallacy. Jesus when ask why a certain man was born blind who sinned his father or himself. Jesus told them that neither sinned. There are consequences to our actions, but there are other variables that come into play in mortality like being in a fallen world or others using their agency to act unrighteously.
@@andrewdurfee3896 A great point - as humans, we look at both history in general and our own personal experience, and determine if negative events are due to general life experience/the actions of others or due to consequences for the actions of those who are suffering the consequences. Sometimes it may be a bit of both. Typically, people make those assignments to reinforce their own beliefs.
Jacob 2: 26-29 - a book written for our day - clearly teaches that the Lord will not suffer the people to do like them of old and have concubines - and His people will keep the commandments, or the land will be cursed. This statement is scripture. So, it really comes down to whether one feels that this teaching of Jacob applies (even partially) to a specific scenario or not.
Where the book about Merrill’s plural marriage !?
why don't you guys bother getting the timeline right? according to you Emma allowed joseph to marry 4 women and 'teach them the principle' (according to emily partridge)..... two months BEFORE this revelation was allegedly shown to emma. How does emma not know about the revelation and be able to teach it? Lets be honest about the contradictions here.
It worries me that you two are teaching students. I hope you are more honest with them than you have been here.
on pres oack and nelson mariages. :they re not practicing poly since they live with only one woman.will they be polygynist in the next life? most likely ,as i am too. in my pat. blessing i have promess that i would renew my covenant with my wifes. plural . a blessing i received before i was even married. god s blessing will not be stopped by unjust men( politicians)
I don’t even believe what you said . President oaks said we do not know how a second wife works . Just trust that all is glorious . I do not believe your PB says what you said . Put up
A copy of it . Never would I. Believe that .
Me as well my wife passed I remarried and believe as you have stated.
The Lord doesn't require anything that is false doctrine. He did not require it of Anyone.
Why start in the first place?
I don't decide for the Lord what to start or finish I try to seek his will and follow his Prophets I try not to judge none of us is perfect Don't throw stones especially when we don't have true understanding
Some women are lonely in a monogamous marriage.
so that makes polygamy alright?…find some friends preferably ones that don’t want to be another potential wife to your hubby 🙄
Plural marriage is not a principle. A principle suggests truth and righteousness. Nothing righteous about plurality of wives. All throughout the Book of Mormon, which Brother Joseph said is the keystone of our religion and the most correct book ever, and the Lord Jesus Christ Himself, in 3rd Nephi had ample opportunity to teach a "higher law". Instead He stated very clearly, "anything more or less is not of me." Brigham's doctrine is far and away more than what we are required by Jesus to live with God in His kingdom. "A man will get closer to God by following the things taught in the Book of Mormon." Book of Mormon is a momogomy marriage book.
Joseph fought polygamy up until the day he died. All of his "plural wives" were married to him AFTER he was dead. D&C is full of false doctrine. Brigham placed it in the D&C 30 years after Joseph was killed in 1876 to justify his false doctrine. Number the pm doctrine among his other false doctrines. Blacks never worthy to hold priesthood. Blood atonement, and Adam God doctrine. Just chock it up as one of his false doctrines. This cpm is a doctrine of the devil. Just BECAUSE it is said to be sanctioned by God when it is not. It's a trap. Its dark. And it has no place in the kingdom of God, The Lord Himself even said so. Section 132 stands alone. It has no scriptural witnesses. Too many false things said in 132. It is clearly questionable. Get a real expert to come on your shpw to answer questions. Brian Hales is like putting the inmates in charge of the asylum. He has lost any credibility he ever had because he promotes false doctrine.
Oh stop it . There is no Adam God theory no blood atonement . Brigham young did not make up anything sit down .
Disagree with you
You sure make a lot of accusations without any proof.
Polygamy was a horrible system. The women were treated horribly, and even families that 'looked fine together' in church fought like cats and dogs at home. Horrible system. The true heros of the early church are those sisters that were forced into this bondage. Even men who were satisfied with only one wife were forced to take another or they never received church callings, got bad assignments etc. I understand the principle....but it's practice was...again...HORRIBLE.
apparently you dont understand the practice. no where in the bible people receive reproach from god about their polygyny, on the contrary god prrsent himself as husband of 2wifes, and tell king david if he had wanted more he would have given him (he had already 9 wifes and concubines. ) jacob in the bom claim god command monogamy but doesnt point to that law under moses law they were living under.i think after 2000 years of pagan law of monogamy ,going poly on the fly ,being pursued across the country at gun point didnt make it easy for anyone. god commande it so the HORRIBLE part is on human faults not god s commands.
@@francoisrobillard3164 Like I said...I understand it's principle... but the forced system upon the female immigrants to Utah was abhorrant. If they decided to leave Utah they were either killed or denied their children. Those early Wasatch Range Mormons were HORRIBLE. And now 8 of those early Danite families run the church today.
Oh...I promise you the way most of those men treated their wives... THEY WILL RECEIVE REPROACH FROM GOD. Not all did it for 'altruistic' reasons.
@@francoisrobillard3164😮 God did repr. God did indeed reproach those in the bible living polygamy. In the Book of Mormon he declared it a whoredom and an abomination and it broke the hearts of His daughters and their children lost confidence in their fathers. polygamy is that abomination and whoredom.
@@francoisrobillard3164what
No one was forced . Not ever . All members did not live this law . And the first wife had to approve . And you could leave or divorce if you did not like it . But this was not even in Nauvoo . Joseph Smith and Hyrum did not do polygamy . And if you did you were excommunicated . Joseph Smith had only one wife her name was Emma . Emma never agreed . Read doctrine and covenants . I did know that Orson Hyde was next for prophet but they changed the order . Orson Hyde was excommunicated. . For signing a document that put Joseph smith and others in jail
. But he was kind of tricked . He got forgiven and was put back as an apostle . The apostle they picked to replace him died . His is a long story .