I agree with the 6v6 support take, but I'd add that while part of the problem is that 6v6 forces you to healbot more, unlike in OW1 you also have the dps passive. The combination of being forced to heal more and your healing being drastically less effective (and also your damage less effective than dps's because it doesn't apply the passive) just makes the role feel pretty awful unless you're playing something like Lucio.
Very true. I win most of my 6v6 games by locking Juno, turning my brain off and healbotting farming ult. Whenever I try to play bap or Ana and use my traditional play style of 1:1 damage and heals, my team tends to die very fast and it’s kinda lame that it forces me to heal so much
@@patricklodge1576 you say that as if in ow1 or even pre s8 things didnt explode if peoples got focus fired lol, all it did is make tank/support more irritating and dps even more deadly when flanking as the other support heal for less
Aiming down on the slash is rough when your trying to aim down and turn it can be very tricky on console. Especially if you have aim smoothing on which most people do.
Honestly I just gave him the mercy treatment and swapped his jump and movement abilities (I’m on ps4 so now I can leap with X, put my thumb back on the right stick, jump with left trigger (realizing that I also swapped his leap and spike guard buttons I think), bunny hop whatever direction I want and use melee for the slash🙏 melee is already bound to pressing the right stick in and once I do that I’m already in position to aim my next shot and hit a melee Reread this- it’s 4:30 and I can’t sleep and am super stoned but the best button set up for him is: RT- gun LT- jump/vault RB- Spikeguard (can’t primary during anyway) LB- Rock X/A/B(bottom bottom)- violent leap RS-melee (if it isn’t already lol)
Agree on how support feels 6v6. It was rough when I realized playing how I usually do was losing games for me and I had to adjust to healbot a lot more to contribute. I spent so long breaking out of healbotting habits that it doesn't feel good to go back. I feel ineffective because I have so little time to get picks and feel like I'm leaving half my kit on the floor depending on the hero. Really hope they adjust it, but I can see how it'll take fine tuning to get the healing up enough to not healbot but not have unkillable opposition.
While healing is more important now, healbotting doesn't win you games. I lock in Moira and Kiriko and can comfortably backline the supports to completely take away the enemy's healing while my team pushes in (healing them when we pincer the enemy). Same goes while playing while watching down main as Ana, Illari etc: damaging tanks has so much more value (especially as heroes who can headshot), lw feels really good and can charge tree very quickly with the tank nerf. Juno feels the worst since her damage is unchanged from 5v5 to 6v6, while her teammates have increased in numbers meaning she has to focus more on healing everyone instead of pressuring the enemy.
Reduce the damage mitigation to 50%. Easy. He needs to use spike guard to quickly mitigate some damage while reloading his weapon and keeping the damage uptime high, no "I block, therefore i don't die". He's impervious to CC anyway since he can just jump away, unlike doom who has to commit or else block goes on cd.
He's too strong all around. I expected his win rate to be higher than 56%. He's very tanky, very mobile, and very good at deleting squishies. With half a mei wall to boot. An overtuned tank in an overtuned tank role (dive)
As a console player. This is the reason why i want a higher sens cap or add a sens multiplier similar to pc with mouse dpi multipliers so we can be able to do faster inputs on a controller because sometimes even at maximum sens it feels a little slow. Especially after rivals having a much higher range on sens too
Also the charge being so hard now makes me sad😢. I'd say 6v6 might be a little bit more fun if you are any tank that plays as off tank, but for the main one who charge in and all that I didn't find much difference.
Personally, 6v6 should have left tank kits largely untouched. Zarya should keep double bubble, rein with double firestrike and hogs pigpen. Supports should also have significantly more healing to allow more space in between healing and damage.
I think I had the hero-specific sens option at like 80-85 for Winston when I played on console. Took a while to get used to, but you could literally jump on just about any non-tank for a 100% guaranteed elim if you practiced with high sens, because most people couldn't turn fast enough to react in time to be a threat.
It's funny that people thought all of the new 2024 heroes gonna be mid on launch but all of them dominated the game at some point honestly i think that's a good sign. The purpose of a brain dead hero like mauga was clear since day one but it took time for people to cook with the other new ones
I'm sorry but trying to bring console win rates and pc win rates together sounds incredibly dumb 90% of the time. Unless there is a bug, glitch, or etc. console is probably always going to have a lower win rate for the higher skilled heroes because quite frankly console players are more casual and not as good as pc (this coming from a console player). They even admit themselves that hazard takes more work on a controller to work with but it doesn't sound like they are going to do quality of life to help but instead buff actual stats. Also its 2 different pools of players so win rates differing is not bad (rainbow six siege, a game that actually shows the win rates has a good bit of difference between the console and pc players, including in which operators are banned but that's not bad it's just two different preferred pools.). Imagine if they nerfed dive because it's popular in the Asia region for instance. Edit: this whole comment is against them buffing/nerfing a character based on the stats being different between console and PC. Quality of life or additional settings to smooth out gameplay are fine
As a console player, which I personally don't have a problem with the slash (but I play with no inner deadzone so make that info what you want) but I think what they could do is simply add a "Slash Relative Aim Sensitivity" cursor like some other abilities have and it should make it feel better to use. Outside of this blog post, my friends and I who are all console players never had an issue with Leaping abilities so it came to me as a shocker that people did (so bare my ignorance please) EDIT: Forgot to mention that I do agree with all the WinRates points you made and everything else. Just wanted to Add to your comment
Being on console doesn't make someone a "casual" or a "worse player" it just means that you can't be as precise with your aim or turn as quickly. On a controller you aim with your thumb while with a mouse you aim with your whole arm.
@@bigfudge2031 that wasn't what I said. I said the console player base as a whole is a lot a more casual and not as good. It's not inherently because they play on controller but it's because there are a lot of casual gamers in the world who play on console. If you are a more casual gamer you probably aren't going to be as a good as someone who isn't a casual gamer and plays the game a lot competitively. I don't have an exact way to convey that if you don't believe me outside of the fact that buying a console is a quick and casual way to get into gaming compared to spending for a gaming PC.
You won't heal bot and can flank more as support if they remove passives like dps passive and lower hps. It's NOT a 6v6 issue. It's alot more fixable than 5v5
Doom feels bad on live rn💀 him being up to a 7.5 second cooldown on slam in 6v6 (with said slam being shorter from the live patch AND a nerf to his shield gain for 6v6)
The only reason support maybe is currently less fun that tank is because most people who are playing tank in that mode don't know how a 6v6 environment works and are just facetanking give it time the tanks will learn to adapt and adjust then you as a support would get more "offensive" presence if you are looking for that The last message was soo nice
I agree, I think many tank players dunno how to play 6v6. Lots of bad choices and not taking enough cover. Playing as Support in 6v6 is much more of a chore. I’m enjoying just playing Torb in it. If I have a decent team, I can roll the enemy teams easily with him.
They have to lol, there's a lot of heroes in the first mode I didn't like having back, but I still played. They can't pick and choose, not the point of the mode this mode.
I think it was really dumb for a lot of tanks to be changed the way they were. Most of the tanks just feel out right WORSE, Zarya bubble feels worse, rein fire strike and charge feels worse, the entire kit of roadhog feels worse, it’s just so…dumb
I'm not sure if you played but those 3 specifically are all their Overwatch 1 kits. They were changed to make them all more solo tank viable, so I guess they wanted to not take the updated versions into the 6v6 test for now for fear of 2 buffed tank variants being too strong together.
I agree some 6v6 changes were odd, peronally as a lower rank doom player he feels much better in 6vs regular even the nerfs were tough- just having the tank support is very enabling. Idk I love yapping about doom
it might just be me, but I feel like as support I'm getting my ult suuuuper fast in 6v6 w the extra tank to heal so I'm not having less fun, just different
They already did address it. They have a different perception to some fans about what constitutes a rework. Sombra as she was from Ovewatch version 2.1 to 2.7 was reworked, but 2.13 wasn't a rework but a tuning. They didn't like the idea of giving Reaper a secondary fire if there wasn't a substantive need for it, and he seems to have done quite well with his spread tightening and changing metas. After Junkenstein's Lab, there are other things they could look at to improve Wraith Form and Shadow Step. Mauga they are clinging hard onto his base design of tank shredding and haven't even remotely touched upon the idea of reworking. Same with Widow in a way, they are fine with her one shot within her falloff range. At the very least she could do with glint or laser sight dots.
Trying to balance this game killed this game make everything overpower let us have fun stop focusing around what the top players are saying and we will be fine stop trying to make this compétitif it’s not
Did you guys happen to peep the slight amount of shade at the end!? "May your plays of the game shine brightly" I think it's an obvious dig at a feature Marvel Rivals doesn't have currently.
You're definitely crazy. Rivals has MVP and SVP, and the post game lobby is infinite so you can view everyone's highlights equally. Everyone is at least forced to watch the MVP cutscene, which is a monetized product (like highlight intros), but no one is forced to watch any highlight in Rivals.
I agree some 6v6 changes were odd, peronally as a lower rank doom player he feels much better in 6vs regular even the nerfs were tough- just having the tank support is very enabling. Idk I love yapping about doom
I agree with the 6v6 support take, but I'd add that while part of the problem is that 6v6 forces you to healbot more, unlike in OW1 you also have the dps passive. The combination of being forced to heal more and your healing being drastically less effective (and also your damage less effective than dps's because it doesn't apply the passive) just makes the role feel pretty awful unless you're playing something like Lucio.
Dps passive needs to exist because of the high healing numbers. You gotta nerf all healing 25% or more to remove the passive
Personally I love turning my brain off and just pumping heals into a rein or orisa
Very true. I win most of my 6v6 games by locking Juno, turning my brain off and healbotting farming ult. Whenever I try to play bap or Ana and use my traditional play style of 1:1 damage and heals, my team tends to die very fast and it’s kinda lame that it forces me to heal so much
Your prob just doodoo big bro
@@patricklodge1576 you say that as if in ow1 or even pre s8 things didnt explode if peoples got focus fired lol, all it did is make tank/support more irritating and dps even more deadly when flanking as the other support heal for less
Aiming down on the slash is rough when your trying to aim down and turn it can be very tricky on console. Especially if you have aim smoothing on which most people do.
Honestly I just gave him the mercy treatment and swapped his jump and movement abilities (I’m on ps4 so now I can leap with X, put my thumb back on the right stick, jump with left trigger (realizing that I also swapped his leap and spike guard buttons I think), bunny hop whatever direction I want and use melee for the slash🙏 melee is already bound to pressing the right stick in and once I do that I’m already in position to aim my next shot and hit a melee
Reread this- it’s 4:30 and I can’t sleep and am super stoned but the best button set up for him is:
RT- gun
LT- jump/vault
RB- Spikeguard (can’t primary during anyway)
LB- Rock
X/A/B(bottom bottom)- violent leap
RS-melee (if it isn’t already lol)
100 100 linear 0 aim smoothing for real men
Agree on how support feels 6v6. It was rough when I realized playing how I usually do was losing games for me and I had to adjust to healbot a lot more to contribute. I spent so long breaking out of healbotting habits that it doesn't feel good to go back. I feel ineffective because I have so little time to get picks and feel like I'm leaving half my kit on the floor depending on the hero. Really hope they adjust it, but I can see how it'll take fine tuning to get the healing up enough to not healbot but not have unkillable opposition.
Wait for people to learn how to play tank in 6v6 first as most playing tanks now have no game sense and just face tank
While healing is more important now, healbotting doesn't win you games. I lock in Moira and Kiriko and can comfortably backline the supports to completely take away the enemy's healing while my team pushes in (healing them when we pincer the enemy).
Same goes while playing while watching down main as Ana, Illari etc: damaging tanks has so much more value (especially as heroes who can headshot), lw feels really good and can charge tree very quickly with the tank nerf.
Juno feels the worst since her damage is unchanged from 5v5 to 6v6, while her teammates have increased in numbers meaning she has to focus more on healing everyone instead of pressuring the enemy.
If the big shakeup is an elephant tank, I'd laugh
Please be that
That would be so epic and the ult should be stampede 😂
Spike Guard has too much uptime right now imo. Makes it feel like he can position awfully and get away with it. Would like for them to reduce it
I agree. I also hate how his spike guard targets deployables/turrets. Feels a bit cheap for it to chip down Illari pylon, destroy Sym turret, etc.
@@ladyhdwastakenthere’s no reason it shouldn’t. They’re able to damage him too so it’s brain dead that if he couldn’t
@@ThatBoiDinky Thank you
Reduce the damage mitigation to 50%. Easy. He needs to use spike guard to quickly mitigate some damage while reloading his weapon and keeping the damage uptime high, no "I block, therefore i don't die". He's impervious to CC anyway since he can just jump away, unlike doom who has to commit or else block goes on cd.
He's too strong all around. I expected his win rate to be higher than 56%. He's very tanky, very mobile, and very good at deleting squishies. With half a mei wall to boot. An overtuned tank in an overtuned tank role (dive)
As a console player. This is the reason why i want a higher sens cap or add a sens multiplier similar to pc with mouse dpi multipliers so we can be able to do faster inputs on a controller because sometimes even at maximum sens it feels a little slow. Especially after rivals having a much higher range on sens too
If you lower aim smoothing it will make it faster
@@vophop8482still not fast enough even with 0 smoothing
They better not do another rank reset, the system still hasn't recovered from the last one
I haven’t played for a while. What happened with the last time?
That's why we need a hard rank reset and hard elo reset, it would fix everything, for awhile at least.
Nobodies playing the game not sure why you want people not playing any longer holding up ranks.
Only having one firestrike for rein in 6v6 feels rough. I'd keep it at 2 but lower the damage if that's needed for it to be fair.
Also the charge being so hard now makes me sad😢. I'd say 6v6 might be a little bit more fun if you are any tank that plays as off tank, but for the main one who charge in and all that I didn't find much difference.
That’s the thing double fire strike doesn’t even 2 shot most of the cast anymore. At least let him 2 shot 225.
Personally, 6v6 should have left tank kits largely untouched. Zarya should keep double bubble, rein with double firestrike and hogs pigpen.
Supports should also have significantly more healing to allow more space in between healing and damage.
I think I had the hero-specific sens option at like 80-85 for Winston when I played on console. Took a while to get used to, but you could literally jump on just about any non-tank for a 100% guaranteed elim if you practiced with high sens, because most people couldn't turn fast enough to react in time to be a threat.
I love the ending rant AND the smooch, such polarity!
steer on charge is not quality of life, that was a huge buff to his potential lethality.
As long as you don’t have a stupid Mercy/Moira backline, Hazard is dominant.
Mobility of DVA, damage of Sigma, Mei wall to protect himself and do damage plus he can absorb damage. No wonder he’s good
i think to fix the sup 6v6 problem, is like a burst healing will work. maybe the same thing what mercy has (or something else)
He has so much mobility and survivability I knew this would happen
Where did they get the 47% winrate in rank from before the buffs. Wasn't he only available in qp during the testing?
It's funny that people thought all of the new 2024 heroes gonna be mid on launch but all of them dominated the game at some point honestly i think that's a good sign. The purpose of a brain dead hero like mauga was clear since day one but it took time for people to cook with the other new ones
He just doesn’t die sometimes. Orisa 2.0. Whenever I see a hazard, I’ll go Orisa to equal out the survivability.
AYYYOOOO THAT ENDING
I like the 6v6 but I don't like them removing quality of life things from tanks
I'm sorry but trying to bring console win rates and pc win rates together sounds incredibly dumb 90% of the time.
Unless there is a bug, glitch, or etc. console is probably always going to have a lower win rate for the higher skilled heroes because quite frankly console players are more casual and not as good as pc (this coming from a console player).
They even admit themselves that hazard takes more work on a controller to work with but it doesn't sound like they are going to do quality of life to help but instead buff actual stats.
Also its 2 different pools of players so win rates differing is not bad (rainbow six siege, a game that actually shows the win rates has a good bit of difference between the console and pc players, including in which operators are banned but that's not bad it's just two different preferred pools.).
Imagine if they nerfed dive because it's popular in the Asia region for instance.
Edit: this whole comment is against them buffing/nerfing a character based on the stats being different between console and PC. Quality of life or additional settings to smooth out gameplay are fine
As a console player, which I personally don't have a problem with the slash (but I play with no inner deadzone so make that info what you want) but I think what they could do is simply add a "Slash Relative Aim Sensitivity" cursor like some other abilities have and it should make it feel better to use. Outside of this blog post, my friends and I who are all console players never had an issue with Leaping abilities so it came to me as a shocker that people did (so bare my ignorance please)
EDIT: Forgot to mention that I do agree with all the WinRates points you made and everything else. Just wanted to Add to your comment
Being on console doesn't make someone a "casual" or a "worse player" it just means that you can't be as precise with your aim or turn as quickly. On a controller you aim with your thumb while with a mouse you aim with your whole arm.
@@bigfudge2031 that wasn't what I said. I said the console player base as a whole is a lot a more casual and not as good. It's not inherently because they play on controller but it's because there are a lot of casual gamers in the world who play on console.
If you are a more casual gamer you probably aren't going to be as a good as someone who isn't a casual gamer and plays the game a lot competitively.
I don't have an exact way to convey that if you don't believe me outside of the fact that buying a console is a quick and casual way to get into gaming compared to spending for a gaming PC.
That's literally why they balance for both sides
@@Dekatlas I agree with what you said there on how they can make it better for console players with buffing numbers.
Need the music louder, I could almost hear you
I want 9v9, 3 tanks, 3 dps, 3 support. Would be best game.
Hey KarQ, thanks for providing insight and your thoughts on 6v6 and the Hazard stats. Glad you’re not just reading the fucking blog post :)
Ive been loving doom in 6v6
You won't heal bot and can flank more as support if they remove passives like dps passive and lower hps. It's NOT a 6v6 issue. It's alot more fixable than 5v5
Doom feels bad on live rn💀 him being up to a 7.5 second cooldown on slam in 6v6 (with said slam being shorter from the live patch AND a nerf to his shield gain for 6v6)
However I actually don’t want dos doom back in this game mode whatsoever😭 he’s a good tank option instead of being just the 1:1 trade master hero
Im sad i didnt get to meet Aaron, as a Swede. But none of my friends wanted to go and I didn't wanna go alone :(
Notice how they don't diss rivals like rivals has been doing to them
Because when you have to resort to "we're better than our opponent" as your main selling points, it tells you all you need to know.
Man, Rivals really lives rent free in your head, huh?
@@vedu8519 That's such a thinly veiled whinge about a certain recent election.
@@arglebargle5531 Open any overwatch related post and read the comments. You'll see who lives in who's head
The only reason support maybe is currently less fun that tank is because most people who are playing tank in that mode don't know how a 6v6 environment works and are just facetanking give it time the tanks will learn to adapt and adjust then you as a support would get more "offensive" presence if you are looking for that
The last message was soo nice
I agree, I think many tank players dunno how to play 6v6. Lots of bad choices and not taking enough cover. Playing as Support in 6v6 is much more of a chore. I’m enjoying just playing Torb in it. If I have a decent team, I can roll the enemy teams easily with him.
Bringing back DPS doom would be the fastest way to make sure I'd never play that mode again.
i can't wait to play dps doom❤
They have to lol, there's a lot of heroes in the first mode I didn't like having back, but I still played. They can't pick and choose, not the point of the mode this mode.
Surely better players on average try a new tank in comp, as a average to bad tank I’m not confident enough to try hazard in comp
Karkhives
I think it was really dumb for a lot of tanks to be changed the way they were. Most of the tanks just feel out right WORSE, Zarya bubble feels worse, rein fire strike and charge feels worse, the entire kit of roadhog feels worse, it’s just so…dumb
I'm not sure if you played but those 3 specifically are all their Overwatch 1 kits. They were changed to make them all more solo tank viable, so I guess they wanted to not take the updated versions into the 6v6 test for now for fear of 2 buffed tank variants being too strong together.
I agree some 6v6 changes were odd, peronally as a lower rank doom player he feels much better in 6vs regular even the nerfs were tough- just having the tank support is very enabling. Idk I love yapping about doom
it might just be me, but I feel like as support I'm getting my ult suuuuper fast in 6v6 w the extra tank to heal so I'm not having less fun, just different
Where are the reworks, reapers rework hasn’t been mentioned in months and widow and mauga are in desperate need of reworks for the health of the game
there's no reason for that rather than to please a feeling in your brain that you can't have fun against mauga
After they buffed reaper with his tp, he doesnt need it anymore, cuz hes working well with brawl compositions and dive compositions
@@YayaPecZ agreed
@@Bad3abdul It surprises me cuz, thats the only buff he got, and from being the worst, he become one of the best options
They already did address it. They have a different perception to some fans about what constitutes a rework. Sombra as she was from Ovewatch version 2.1 to 2.7 was reworked, but 2.13 wasn't a rework but a tuning.
They didn't like the idea of giving Reaper a secondary fire if there wasn't a substantive need for it, and he seems to have done quite well with his spread tightening and changing metas. After Junkenstein's Lab, there are other things they could look at to improve Wraith Form and Shadow Step.
Mauga they are clinging hard onto his base design of tank shredding and haven't even remotely touched upon the idea of reworking. Same with Widow in a way, they are fine with her one shot within her falloff range. At the very least she could do with glint or laser sight dots.
Cool. Anyone excited for Ultron?
A
G
F
Trying to balance this game killed this game make everything overpower let us have fun stop focusing around what the top players are saying and we will be fine stop trying to make this compétitif it’s not
Did you guys happen to peep the slight amount of shade at the end!? "May your plays of the game shine brightly" I think it's an obvious dig at a feature Marvel Rivals doesn't have currently.
...what?
They do, but you can look at EVERY players play of the game instead of only 1 :)
@@ThatBoiDinky nope I'm in the next match before I look at that lol
You might just be crazy bro
You're definitely crazy. Rivals has MVP and SVP, and the post game lobby is infinite so you can view everyone's highlights equally. Everyone is at least forced to watch the MVP cutscene, which is a monetized product (like highlight intros), but no one is forced to watch any highlight in Rivals.
I agree some 6v6 changes were odd, peronally as a lower rank doom player he feels much better in 6vs regular even the nerfs were tough- just having the tank support is very enabling. Idk I love yapping about doom