Opinion: How good a steel does an EDC Pocket Knife actually need?
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- Опубликовано: 12 сен 2024
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In a folder, I worry about the lock long before I start to worry about steel.
Even when I get to the question of steel, I look at the maker/manufacturer and their ability to do a decent heat treat first. I'll take AUS8 from a manufacturer who knows how to heat treat it, before I'll take S30V from a manufacturer who doesn't.
Absolutely,decent heat treatment makes a big difference
I am not one of the "440C is the best Steel ever created by men" types, but I have used that steel in various knives over the years and it always was enough to get the jobs done that I had at hand, so that steel is the baseline for me for a working knife. My two edc knives that I currently use the most are the Spyderco Chicago in BD1 and the Benchmade 940 in S30V and both of those steels are waaaayyyy overkill for what I need. I enjoy maintaining my knives so I don`t mind sitting down in the evening and bringing that edge on a 440C or something knife back. I think super-steels make more sense for people who don`t know how to sharpen, who are too lazy to sharpen, who perform jobs that require extensive cutting (but those usually have speciality knives) or who carry their knives as jewelry.
Same here i still like 440c the most its so easy to sharpen and i don't have to sharpen my knife to often, also i don't cut garbage carton but i rip it with my hands much faster than using a knife. Lots of people think be cos they have a knife they need to use him. For me i prefer my hands the best tools you have.
German Survivalist I agree with you, however I believe one of the best steels (taking our mindset into consideration) is 154cm. I love my Griptilian in 154cm, perfect balance of edge retention with no chipping, and easy enough to sharpen without an expensive setup. I have had good luck with cts-xhp as well, but it does tend to chip too easily for my taste.
is aus 8 good in your opinion for edc.i know it is below 440c. i admit that i almost don't use my edc knife in reality. i just drag it along with me. Currently i use manix 2 s30v. thanks!
I agree, I hear that S110V is a nightmare to sharpen, I guess it’s ok if you pay someone to sharpen your knives or spend hundreds of dollars on a rig to do it with when I use a $5 Eze-Lap diamond stone for every knife I have and it works great.
@@appalachiangunman9589 Diamond sharpens everything, I've sharpened knives for folks in my apts. and seldom use my wet-dry belt grinder unless the knife is terrible. I sharpen my D2 easily on diamond.
Loved the topic that should definitely help people understand how to gauge your test cause I'm sure certain people have definitely said well I have that same knife you used in your test and it cuts wood for days so I don't understand your test. Sometimes people can't just enjoy the fact that your taking out your time to show how the certain steels perform when cutting that type of rope I know I certainly appreciate you doing them the same goes with the rest of your vids I know know how much time and effort goes into making a video especially since your doing videos with some great editing which I'm trying to learn how to do so my videos are more interesting to watch and also not having to get it right the first time cause I sometimes have to do many takes before I do screw up lol. Well brother hope your having a great day talk to you later
Stassa23 Hey thanks Nick - yes, Im pretty quick on iMovie (at least I was - its giving me a couple issues lately) but yeah, I've been turning out a pretty high volume because I've been on holidays from work, too. Also good to have a couple cameras to do different shots with. But yeah, all comes down to being a fairly qick editor in post production! (not that this ones anything special, edit wise!)
Cedric & Ada Gear and Outdoors so do you have I movie on your computer or your phone that's something I'm working on I know I can get it for my iPhone but not sure if I can get it on my windows laptop I'm going to start playing around with iMovie on my phone cause I hate doing it in one take cause usually there is a lot of shit I could cut from my videos when I get overly excited about a certain knife I tend to just blab my jaws not to mention being able to add in something important that I may have forgotten I'm notorious for that since my accident my memory is total shit and it was total shit before my accident lol. Well it was good talking to you as always talk to you later
Stassa23 yeah man, always good to go armed with talking points and do a few takes to make sure you get it all. Even this video I 'um' and 'aah' too much IMO! I have a mac and imovie is $20 from the store, but I would think its windows friendly too.
Cedric & Ada Gear and Outdoors I almost went with the mac but couldn't really afford it at the moment I'll probably get one when this one craps out. My brother does RUclips videos for his work so he has a lot of nice editing software I'm just not sure if they will be to complicated for me but it can't hurt to try them out and I think for the mean time I'll play around with iMovies see if I can work with it
You do realize, I hope, that an awful lot of people 'hang' some strongly held opinions on your rope!
My contention is that there are millions of folks carrying knives with steel far in excess of capability compared to what their knives will actually get used for. There was a time when you could get a pocket knife that would tarnish or you could get one marked "Stainless" on the blade and either option worked just fine for 90% of knife owners for a lot of years. Then came the 440C's & 154CM (& others) that we all thought was the beat-all, end-all solution to blade performance. Obviously it has spiraled from there.
Having said that, I'll confess that I'm just another steel-snob in the world. An observation I've made from several decades of being a knife fanatic is two fold. The improvements in blade steels has gotten incrementally smaller - meaning that they are getting better & better but not by leaps & bounds. Secondly having such durable blades has generally made the knife community as a whole less capable of maintaining an edge. It used to be something you did by hand & got better at because you did it fairly frequently.
Well if you bothered with my ramble this far I'll just close with saying most folks have far more capability steel-wise than they'll ever need.
ogenmatic agreed! which is certainly not a bad thing! I guess its better to have a rocket ship with too much fuel than one with not enough, even if you are only planning on going a short distance.
(meanwhile all the rocket scientists unsubscribe)
Cedric & Ada Gear and Outdoors
Well it's not 'rocket surgery' as AvE would say.
Less rocket scientist subs but more old-guy subs now.
(AvE is an interesting RUclipsr btw)
yeah. most people spend why more time researching the "best" tool or "best for what i do" tool than the time they actually spend using it. but hey its fun and interesting sometimes. what else we gonna talk about? some hollywood actors latest date or breakup
Most folk with a bit of disposable income have things that are often way above their abilities to fully use; whether it's kitchen knives, espresso machines or cars. Very few people with sports car can drift them let alone get both wheels off the ground around corners (and still make the corner). It doesn't mean they don't enjoy them if only to show off. I don't really need my XHP Chaparal but it still brings me joy.
True, also some of it is harder to sharpen.
I am not great at sharpening myself, I blame my knives for holding an edge too long lol!
My RAT1 has aus8 and I've found it to be perfectly good for everyday use, even on a busy day it doesn't dull whilst I'm out, and sharpens easily.
A good heat treated aus 8 works good. Have the same as a daily beater. Most times carry the rat 2 aus 8. (22$ I don't care if I destroy it but still keeps kicking strong)
When I was working in the automotive sector I had a little spyderco ambitious.Over the course of several years of cutting several pallets worth of cardboard boxes daily the 8cr13mov was fine, I think it’s probably a testament to spydercos heat treat than anything.
Another great video. Thank you.
I would also like to reinforce something here, that you have mentioned before. That the heat treat, has a great deal to do with just how well a blade ends up performing.
I'd like to give as example, to remind some of the viewers here, from your very own results.
CPM S35VN 109 / 113 (ZT) - 0909 (Two Tests)
CPM S35VN 187 - Reeve Sebenza
CPM S35VN 194 - ZT0220
CPM S35VN 198 - Kizer Gemini
This is nearly a 100% range, within a single steel type.
Steve Kluver absolutely. Steel heat treat is exceptionally important. Those ZTs were very
soft. It really makes a large variance if you rockwell a steel at 56 vs 61.
Agreed. It does make me smile a bit too, when I glance over at some of my Kizer knives ; - ) Even though I do know, that ZT does often get it right also.
I have found 12c27 the best woodworking steel as it holds a very decent to edge and gets very sharp very easily.
my favorite knife is made of that steel. really nice on all fronts
Absolutely I agree
Very sharp and lasts and easy to touch up
Would like to see rope test results of aus8 from a SOG knife that claims their cryogenic treatment of it is to die for. BTW, really like your videos. Nice work.
Edc? Umm most people dont even carry a knife at all, so i wonder what kind of an life style people who say s30v is their bare minimum? I used to work in a place where i needed a knife every 3 minutes to do various types of cutting and then my 154cm by Benchmade was enough it could go for a month without sharpening or stropping. Now i edc mostly cold steel CTS-XHP ( great steel) but i can easily get through the day with victorinox and often Case Cv.
I have carried a pocket knife EDC since I was 12 years old (so nearly 4 decades now), and as does my father has before me, and his father, and all of my friends I know also EDC at least one folder. The tradition of pocket knife carriage has only changed here in Australia since 1996. My two sons will most likely continue the tradition as well when they turn 18 as well.
Also in Qld if you you don't need a 'genuine reason' to carry the ill defined 'pen knife' or SAK, and you will pretty well get away with a multitool if you aren't being a dickhead if searched.
I just wish a knife company would cotton onto that fact and market a one handed opening lock knife as a 'pen knife' (and have 'pen knife' etched onto the knife just to make it clear to everyone it is a 'pen knife'), it wouldn't even bother me if they limited the blade length to 3" as long as they made the handle 4" to suit people like me with XXL sized hands.
Concerning a 'minimum', M390 or CPM-20CV (or equivalent) is mine and I am an unabashed steel snob, but have gotten to a stage in my knife collecting journey to be spoiled for choice for EDC knives in either of those steels (I currently have a 6 EDC rotation, 2 ZT's [ZT0920 and ZT 0456], a Steel Will C-22 CutJack, a RSK Megalodon Titan 2017, a Tuyaknife Shuriken and my latest purchase a Reate Mini Horizon D)
I’ve used chrome vanadium Case knives for a long time and you can get a razor edge on them, you just have to stay on top of them sharpening them. At least if you do let them get really dull it still doesn’t take a very long time to get them back like new.
Unpopular opinion #6: Most people buy knives because of the way they look. They should be more concerned with how useful the knife can be.
Very sensible opinion. Steel in your EDC knife has to be good enough to get you through all tasks you usualy do without too much hassle before zou are able to gat it sharp again. Then it is just a equation of what your tasks are and how do you get your blade sharp. Me being a "office rat", I use my EDC to fix me a brakfast every morning, opening an envelope or package from time to time, cutting a loose thread on a fly, peeling an apple for my daughter and cutting myself occasionaly. In other words, I am yet to find a steel that does not do the trick for me. I usualy carry Opinel No. 6 in carbon or Victorinox Waiter (although I would love to upgrade to Sportsman). I strop them very seldom, maybe every other month.
Used and abused the leatherman 154cm blade all day virtual every day. While after a few days (cutting a lot of fibers and synthetics - I worked as a cowboy/farm manager) it would loose the razor edge, it did stay relatively sharp for several weeks. I recall one time accidentally jamming it into a steel washer on a wooden post, it stuck for a moment and then fell out, thought I broke the tip and near panicked, but it was fine. That brought big points for me with the knife. I still like it. I used it recently pretty hardy for a good walking stick whittle, again, not exactly razor thereafter but still sharp and I don't fear chipping. Love the ease of carry w/ the Kershaw Ken Onion design knife (1660CKTST), but the tip snapped off in the washing machine... definitely a good edc knife, but having that edge retention with more durability would be nice. I did recently buy the Buck Impact s30v, basically so I can keep that near razor edge to use and yet still impress friends and family, ha!
Funny thing i love to sharpen knifes so much that i use my lowest quality knifes the most. Like dollar store knifes. The only thing that sucks is they hold up very well in the kitchen. I make 90 percent of my food from scratch and i only get to sharpen 1 time a month. Im using the worst steal i can. It also sharpens in a minutes on my tormek. I sometimes dull my cheap knives intentanly by cutting up cardboard. Its also why i use a mora on my farm. After a long days work on the farm i get to sharpen it and it makes me so happy. Am i alone in my love of cheap steal.
Mora knives are very well heat treated. I can't stand dollar store knives. I actually flat ground a mora for that purpose.
D2 for me.
My preferred steel overall. Tough as nails, takes a nice edge and resistant enough for me. Price is reasonable as well. 👌🏻😎
My usual EDC is a Gerber EAB, if only they made Stanley blades out of M390 my life would be complete.
Great topic! It’s wonderful to hear your sensible reasoning. Being a knife nut makes me throw logic right out the window very often. I have lots of knives to play with, including some made of 8cr13mov . They are so easy to get sharper by just rubbing them on just about anything. I consider them “fun" knives, not work knives. I also have many with higher end steel and use them for work. “Snob” Steel is great! I guess I just like knives lol
Very thoughtful. As a woodcarver/whittler I strop regularly, but I get a lot of carving even if carving dry hardwoods like Black Walnut and Sugar Maple. I prefer using carbon steels especially D2-Queen Cutlery OAR Carvers, various makers O1, and UHC Roselli, Mora laminated 120/106, Henckel's/Boker. Fixed blade carving knives from Nic Westermann, Dell Stubbs-finewood Forge, Although at times I enjoy for roughing out carvings I use a Mora with 12C27. Much better than the knife I started with 45 years ago-Swiss Army knife. EDC I carry an old 1940's Schrade Casrpenter's/Electricians'sKnife, Benchmade mini-Griptillian, and recently a Benchmade Emissary 3.5 AXIS-Assist Knife Aqua 477-1 CPM-S30V which I'm still learning to hand sharpen. I do have a question. Have you tested Japanese (King Brand) synthetic water stones (6,000 grit) work to sharpen these harder steels such as CPM-S30V? When I started sharpening when the natural Black Diamond Arkansas oilstone was the best then gradually switched to ceramic, and now I primarily use diamond stones and strops.
My Spyderco Sage1 in S30V tapped out 3/4 into preparing kindling for a camp fire where my wife's Tenacious in 8Cr13MoV did all the camp fire wood prep and was still shaving and paper cutting sharp.
that’s probably a geometry and edge angle thing not the steel. or you somehow got a fluke
Couldn't agree more! I can sharpen. Your outlook is spot on. Thanks Pete
Good discussion, Pete. For me it goes something like this:
NO WAY - 7Cr17 (and lower), 4116
ULTRA-BUDGET ONLY - AUS8, 8Cr13MoV
GOOD ENOUGH - 440C, 420HC, 12C27, 14C28N
GOOD PLUS - BD-1 (super stain resistance), D2 (wickedly sharp edges)
SUPER AS I'LL EVER REALLY NEED - XHP
Beyond that, I see diminishing returns, because I've used the heck out of my XHP blades and have only ever stropped them.
Love the topic and your delivery! Subscribed. Keep up the great work!
Interesting video. Nice to see your overall thoughts on steel comparisons and what you think about your edge retention tests. Helps puts things in perspective in my mind. I enjoy these "rambly" videos. Feel free to post more, you have a loyal viewer here!
Learning to sharpen teaches you a lot about knife steel and about yourself. If you do it often enough with a variety of knives you will answer your own questions and discover your true needs. It’s a lot like dating. Benchmade or box cutter. There is a mate for you.
I carry a small sharpening stone most of the time. And when I EDC softer steels I simply use the stone more often. Feels like back when I was smoking cigarettes - the fingers seem to roll that cigaret by them selves, when it's time to smoke.
Nice! A sensible, well spoken take on knives. Part of the experience of using a knife & knife ownership is the sharpening & maintenance of it (in my not so humble opinion). The more you do, the better you get, the better you get, the more you enjoy. With that said, there are many who own & collect knives but don't have a clue how to sharpen them without some guided device. How many people do you know who own a car but don't know how to drive? Well, I guess there are countless who know how to drive but can't change a tire or their own oil.
An earlier comment by ogenmatic was pretty much right on the money. In the end, with all these great steels available today, why settle for less if you can afford it? As a carpenter/general contractor for years, I was constantly buying the newest & best tools on the market to perform the job. It just pains me to see so many younger people with little to no real experience or knowledge espousing their opinions of what makes a good knife.
There I go again; being an old curmudgeon. ogenmatic is fully correct in that AvE is an interesting fellow & a wealth of knowledge. Just so happens he lives in the same Province as me. Carry on mate. Keep up the excellent work, cheers.
Imightberiding
Around here (the wilds of northern New York) there's a seemingly endless supply of people who own cars without having a clue about how to drive them!
Knowing how to sharpen a knife (freehand) seems to be a dying art. It was something I learned as a kid back in an age where adults instilled common sense into the brains of their offspring. Everyone's skill sets will be different though. Tried like hell to teach my son to sharpen & he just lacks the patience for that particular task. But then again he's knowledgeable, patient, & capable on doing anything & everything mechanical on the several old pickups he owns whereas I'm just his generally clueless assistant.
Remember: keep your sisal rope in a vise!
Hey ogenmatic, a pleasant surprise to realise others actually read the comments too. True words you write. It's interesting what you said about your son. I've never had children of my own but I have two step daughters & a stepson from a previous marriage. My son sounds just like yours. He too has little interest or patience for some things I find interesting or important but he became an award winning mechanic. I used to muck around on cars in the late 70's & 80's. Now I don't have a clue what to do with all the computer controlled vehicles. I can still change a tire & my own oil though.
Your closing punch line cracked me up! Cheers.
Ruike knives for EDC and 1095 Esse 4/5/6 fixed blades for camping or yard work. 🤘🏻
I have to disagree when it comes to wood cutting. Yes, it is less abrasive but it can be hard. Much harder than cardboard or any of the synthetic fiber. Plus wood often has mini knots and other hidden crap that dulls edges fast. On top of that, you can't just power through a piece of wood with a semi-sharp knife without getting tired of the job before it's even done. Ok, technically you can but it'll be dangerous, sloppy and it'll look and feel terrible. Some steels, like 12C27 can't take a regular carving session without rolling unless you put a beefier, convex edge on the knife. Another example are Condor knives made from 1070. These knives are just a pain to use cause they don't even last till I finish sharpening a few sausage skewers. They're almost as bad as Victorinox in this respect. On the other hand, that AUS-8 you have problems with, but heat treated for or by Hultafors, will last for ever and I'm sometimes able to finish an entire wooden spoon without sharpening my knife once. And I usually use dry, hard-ish wood like cherry or ash.
So yeah, if you have to split some wood, make fine feather sticks and then clean a few fish, cut up some veggies and meat, your knife has got to be able to hold an edge. Otherwise the entire trip is all about resharpening.
I make wood carving and leather cutting blades. I use a proprietary blend that has 1.78 carbon and 1% chromium for chrome carbides. The steel is 2mm or .080 thick. I heat treat them to RC 63 hard with a very shallow bevel for leather and a convex for wood, both have a mirror edge. Also for more strenuous wood carving I buy some scandi grind Lauri blades at RC 63 and they are 3.2 mm or .125 thick. and have three inch blades. I'll put the handle you want on and make a nice right or left handed hand tooled sheath for under $100 USD. I have one customer who carves desert ironwood that has silicates in it, he uses a diamond 1000 grit sharpener once a day because that's like carving rock. He has carved some beautiful handles for me though including in recon Malachite and turquiose.
I'm a chef and i love my spyderco delica at work for everything from coring tomatoes, cutting frozen puff pastry, opening bags and boxes, I've processed hundreds of whole octopus with it, i love it. That being said, i really want a Caribbean leaf spyderco but I'm afraid it will be too big for my little pockets lol.
EDC for Amazon boxes.. people don't really do that, do they. They cut the little box tape and that's about it.
For 8 years my daily beater was a Kershaw One Ton. Copper wire, car tyre, cans and even scrap grouting off a wall. Have cut more than most have watched on RUclips😎 Never felt the need to run off and get the powdered steel from the cupboard. When I open boxes and cut straps it's a shipping container full. After that day it needs a sharpen. All knives will but it works.
AUS10 has replaced it though
I draw the line @ S30V and up. I do this because I don't want to have to have a knife that needs to be sharpened frequently. This is being smart / not snobby.
That aus 8 can strop back or sharpen back in a 16th of the time it takes for maxamet, that has to count for something. A few swipes on my belt and I'm back in business. In my experience I can't do that with many of these super steels. Actually I'd have to wait until I got home to do a proper sharpening with them while aus 8 or aus 10 can quickly get back to hair popping sharp in 15 seconds on the job. No matter what steel I bring to work it's dull in 15 minutes so the ability to sharpen quickly is important to me. K390 so far has been the most impressive and lasted an hour maybe but obviously I couldn't sharpen it on site.
I like your take on this subject. Glad I listened to Nick Shabazz and came to visit your channel. One thing that continually surprises me overall is how rarely so many reviewers overlook different sorts of grinds. Not just FFG vs hollow grind; those are discussed. Rarely though does anyone seem to identify advantages for serrated edges on fibrous materials. I always have both a PE and a SE blade with me just to handle different situations. Not so much combo blades; not my thing.
I work in the plastic's industry. The steels we use daily in our cutting tools are M4. We work with heavy gauge plastics and the plastic's can be what we describe as hot or cold. When I use my pocket knife for single cuts or shaving I find need for VG10 or better. A thinner blade is always a preference.
I figured m4 would apply well to that field!
Thank you for your work. Your tests are simple and effective. I enjoy watching the videos. Keep it up.
I like these "rambling" topic vids and the steel tests are one of the best knife vids around. For me, a free hand sharpener, I look for steels that have decent edge retention and at least seem to have the ratio of edge retention to ease of sharpening tilted towards the sharpening. 1095 cro-van, kershaw 14c28n, cold steels cts-bd1 and 4116 are all good examples of this and my favorite steels. There's also an upper limit to what I can deal with, bucks Bos s30v (60-61 hrc) or cold steels Xhp are as high as I care to go.
Mt. Baldwin Get some 200-ish grit Japanese waterstones. They're cheap because the materials are more common and they'll reprofile anything in no time.
I loved this balanced view. It is difficult to put that in a spread sheet but worth the challenge? 😉
What I find very interesting is that different edges might be better for different steels.
Thank you for all the interesting tests.
Did I miss something? I've always used boxcutters to cut boxes.
i guess our worldviews are different? different grinds for different kinds maybe
My list of knife steels: CPM 30v, CPM s110v, CPM s90v, Cru-wear, CTS Maxamet, M390, CPM s35vn, CTS-XHP, K390, PSF27, CTS B70P, RWL34, CPM 20CV, LC200N, PMA11, PD#1, 154CM, 12C27 Sandvik, YK-30, 1.4116, 1050, 1095, 8Cr13MoV, AUS-8, SK5 Carbon Steel, 8Cr14MoV, 1075 Carbon Steel, 01 Tool Steel and 3Cr13. I really want a knife in ZDP-189 and Elmax.
meh. victorinox steel is enough for me to edc. ain't gonna cut ropes nor boxes all day. just occasional paper envelopes and plastic packages every now and then.
Syafique Sharif I like the SAW Waiter. It's $17 and covers all my actual EDC needs.
Swiss Army Knife.
The thing is, my Victorianox cuts boxes fine and has for 1 years. And I've only used a pull through sharpener.
For my money, it depends how often you use your knife. I'll probably use whichever of mine I'm in love with that day for maybe two, short, single tasks. AUS8 and 8cr13MoV are fine. Three or four passes on a strop with green compound bring them back quickly. I've got a ZDP189 Endura which I never use because I don't want to 'hurt' it's lovely mirror edge. On the rare occasion I need to cut many boxes, I'll use a $3 box cutter with snap-off blades.
Appreciate your experience. 4me - EDC oudoors for us is Benchmade D2 and 44mag, indoors s20v, garage m390, street 9mm-
I think you might be sharpening you knives too often. I'd recommend that you hone your edges as long as you can before you sharpen them. A regular kitchen steel can work wonders for steels softer than 56 HRC and for harder steels, polishing compound on a leather stop or ceramic honing rods are effective. Honing is quicker than sharpening and does not remove much material, so it safes you time and steel!
Dunno man doesn't seem to work all the time especially my s110v doesn't really roll rather than chip
@Tony Ochoa yeah to me s110 doesn't really seem to improve but maybe I'm just not patient enough, it works on my saks and moras tho as well as on my N690 blade
@Tony Ochoa just went back at my pm 2 in s110v with one micron diamong compound and as it turns out stropping does work, because of the steel it takes a good while tho, about 600-700 passes per side to get it back to a razors edge. Only advantage over a stone is you get to be liberal with the angle but time is almost as much as withe the stone and also the steel usually doesn't get taken away that quick so that's not as big of a concern on this knife. Still cool to know it can be done and I that I could make do with just a strop should I only be able to back very little gear
@Tony Ochoa maybe they break of the rolled bur and it takes a while for the points to get back together maybe strop longer?
You probably hit the nail on the head with regards to lowend steel. It's mostly about what you use the knife for, rather than the actual steel, which should fit the purpose. If your life consists of cutting cardboard, carpets and plastic containers, one of those super steels will be in order. I don't think many people actually do, they cut a bit of cardboard, cut tape on packages, clean a nail, open soft plastic wrapping and envelops. You don't need maxamet for it, you can pretty much settle for a Victorinox, and keep a hardcore knife for exactly those few days, where you cut boxes and carpets.
I actually doubt people watching your channel have "the perfect knife for all purposes". I have quite a few, various steels and sizes from the Leatherman Squirt, various Victorinox, CRKT, Kizer, Benchmade, WE and others S35V/S30V up to M390. Pick what's best for the purpose, don't try to find the holy grail of every situation.
Ondal1 you're right - all comes down to the use. And all us knife guys are gonna have at least a few knives with hopefully a sampling of different steels. Its just whether we can sharpen them that decides our enjoyment in a practical way!
Could you perhaps try a test of "how many envelopes can I open with a Victorinox"? :D
+Ondal1 I know you were joking but theres actually a video idea there I think!
Go for it! ;)
That one might take a while. I open my mail with a Victorinox classic (tiny blade) and while I haven't counted it would be way past 400 envelopes since I sharpened it and it still just glides thru no worries - and my "sharpening" is rudimentary at best . Granted my M390 blade glides a fraction better but the little classic just keeps on. Maybe save the envelope test till you're stuck at home for a day with no power or something . . . .
Hey Cedric totally have some of the best reviews,our tastes are almost identical in knives,keep up the good work
+gabe v thanks for saying man, always nice to hear!
440c, aus8, bd1n, 14c28n, vg10, d2, and 154cm are all acceptable for me, though I definitely prefer m390 plain edge or Lc200n serrated.
The nastiest stuff I cut often are those really thick fiberglass enforced plastic ties. Lower end steels crap the bed on those real quick, especially since one often has to cut them at goofy angles. With the right kind of edge, everything VG 10 and upwards can handle that nicely, though. Put the wrong kind of edge on the knife and even CPM3V is getting blunt on it.
I find that too many people focus on steel a lot but not enough on the actual edge. Good luck cutting plastic ties with a mirror polished edge. No matter what steel, it will be uncomfortably blunt quickly, may roll or chip and is prone to slipping off.
Many people would be a lot happier with a toothy, lower grit edge but are quick to blame the steel instead. Personally, I have yet to find a use outside of shaving for a high polish edge.
great vid! if you eliminate cardboard breakdown, more steels on the low end make sense. for me, having used razor knives (replaceable utility blade) for years in construction, i always break down cardboard using these, not my folders, thereby reducing maintenance by a high percentage on knives i carry. for about five bucks, you can enjoy the freedom from eating away a good knife blade.
Congrats on 5k!!
Love my Benchmade 550-1 and ZT 0562cf. I'm an absolute steel snob. I could have bought my Bradford Guardian3 in N690 which would be fine BUT I had to get the M390. I just bought the Edge Pro but I haven't learned to use it yet.
I think D2 is starting to be the bottom line for me... You can get it super cheap now (Just bought a 12cm-ish 3mm thick fixed blade in D2 for $23) and the toughness and edge retention are great. I've never really cared about stain resistance and I live near the water... I'm just so OCD about my knives that I wipe them down after every use on something even vaguely corrosive.
Rodrigo Teresa You bet! I ordered a Y Start knife from one of those big china sites for $12 and its apparantly in D2! I'll have to test it though cos thats crazyn
Cedric & Ada Gear and Outdoors china has d2 for dirt cheap. I love it
Rodrigo Teresa there is okay d2 decent d2 and great d2. It's hard to find the good stuff cause d2 that's good has to be specially heat treated. Read this thread. xf.bladeforums.com/threads/any-experience-with-nathans-d2.1470902/#post-16929136
Tactical Center Interesting... I've heard similar things about 440C
+Rodrigo Teresa yes, 440c also. for the most part tho, 440c is often heat treated very soft due to mass production, this allows folks to do dumb stuff to it and not have to claim a warranty within reason.
Victorinox steel has the edge retention of lead. But beyond whatever steel that is I'm not too fussy about the steel in my EDC folders. 420HC, 440C, D2, 12c27 etc. are all cheap and perfectly adequate to last me a day and with a couple of strokes on the strop when I get home I couldn't tell the difference between those and some expensive powdered steel. I'm more particular about my fixed blades at least of they are intended for meat or wood.
My main EDC is AUS8 (Homefront CRKT) works fine for me with boxes, plastic straps etc. Watching this though perhaps I'll consider better next knife.
For me something like 440c or even aus8 is fine for EDC. For outdoor blades I can work with 7cr or better for a general use knife. O1 tool steel or 1095 is my preference for belt knives. For construction work I carry a Husky stainless steel folding razor knife with plastic handle scales and belt clip. I cut wood, carpet, drywall, cardboard, plastic etc.. at the end of the day I throw the blade away and put in a new one. I can do 5,000 manila rope cuts with a single box of disposable blades ... ( :
8cr13mov steel works just fine for every day carry. So does VG-10. I just tune them up weekly.
I am an unabashed steel snob for folders, M390 or CPM-20CV only for EDC folders for me. Fixed blades I tend to be less worried and have found a lot of different steels work fine, though I really like 1075, 1095, 5160, Aus-8 and VG-1.
I did 100 cartboard boxes with 440a. Not opening, cutting.
Box cutters for boxes
That's no fun.
I m a nerd for steel discussion. ...subscribed !
If you use a box cutter to cut cardboard, then it really doesn’t matter the steel of your picket knife.
I NEVER cut cardboard with my pocket knives. I have a half dozen Stanley 99 utility knives laying around for that job. I buy the razors for those in 100-packs. If I ever get caught without a utility knife handy, I use the beater blade on my SAK, which is the small blade for me. And then I resharpen it the first chance I get. I think people are crazy for cutting cardboard with their good blades.
You deserve way more subs.... I guess less people really care about edc nowadays.... sad
+Alice Cullotto im super happy with my 5k, I never thought I'd get there! Thanks for watching and commenting!
@@CedricAda definitely climbing up there now with 35k haha.
I used to be a steel snob.but when u free hand sharpen and u r dealing with s90 my feeling started to change.
Aaron Watkins s90v for me is easy to touch up with ceramic and no issues re profiling with diamonds.
I'll carry any steel as long as the heat treat is done right. I have a CRKT M21-14G with 8CR13MOV that holds an edge every bit as well as my D2 Steel Will Cutjack or any of my VG10 Spydercos. Granted it isn't the M390 or N690CO of some of my Steel Wills or the S30V of my Paramilitary 2 or my ZT knives or the elmax on my Lionsteel but it is still a great blade
Great video. Your approach makes a lot of sense to me.
I have 2 420hc steel blade knives I got less than $20 best steel imo.
Near or above the "cut off" point, I think toughness and resistance to chipping... vs. how hard is this blade to bring back from such damage... to be a big one. I do not personally want SV110 (or the rather chippy S30V either) on a Manix 2 -- I have three compact, quality 69-gram weight EDC knives with circa 3" blades which don't take up pocket space like a Manix 2... so what I'd want from that one is a bigger blade I can thrash on a tough, hard, 'dirty' job without worrying about blade damage I cannot fix *readily* on a Sharpmaker, e.g., even with the diamond stone set.
The standard BD-1 is not quite there to me, seemingly having no standout quality like N690's high corrosion resistance to give me some value added, or some other extra fitness for purpose if chosen well. But I'd take it over the not that much more expensive SV110 (esp. buying used) for the reasons cited. GPKnives has a VERY helpful and pertinent video on Spyderco's BD-1 (Thanks, Tyler & Co.). Yeah, you can almost certainly live with that happily if you have to or want to for the not-so-usual Manix Lightweight combination of virtues. Yet I'd personally rather pay more for (maybe) S35VN, N690, LC200N, or a properly treated "tool steel" that isn't crazy tough to bring back with basic tools. Perhaps a good deal of that wariness is [new] "knife guy" psychology. "Upgrades" and specialties are fun, if nothing else, right? Rope test results fade into the background in this case.
For the hunter & field prep -centric Stretch 2, I think the regular VG-10 makes pretty good sense, despite some cautions I've seen about how Spyderco is handling the alloy. On the other hand, I really like my ZDP-189 original Stretch lightweight, a more EDC friendly design (and weight). For my suburban guy EDC tasks, that hard, long wearing alloy makes pretty good sense... IF... I am cautious about where I employ it, not being a skilled knife sharpener dude.
That's why I like a beater/backup blade 3.75 ounces or less in my everyday backpack or messenger bag. "Horses for courses", and then, a lot of varied options can make sense. I can even carry two cheap backup blades -- an Opinel No. 9 carbone for the fatter slicey things if I'm carrying my short bladed Chaparral... and a circa 1.6 ounce titanium Eafengrow/Fura "M390" [?!] 1.75-inch heavy duty beastie for the thrash and pry and twist stuff... at ~ 3.6 ounces total. The 6114 on my new Finn Bear 4" backup makes sense to me 'cause it has that very high corrosion resistance, it'll take a very sharp edge quickly as needed; and I can, I believe, bring it back from a moderate edge chewing beating with relatively simple tools if required; with it's still being slicey by design for EDC tasks. Just about as much "no worries, mate" as a backup blade can get, isn't it? Especially for under twelve bucks.
Anyway, such demonstration examples aside, I would really, really like to see the Doggedly Determined Pete rankings for steel toughness / resistance to chipping & deal-breaker edge folding. We guys could then weigh those rankings against cost or edge retention under abrasion (the rope test) according to our own requirements. I'm sure that would prompt some really helpful comments and testimonials.
Thanks, Pete. Pretty please...?
I think tool steels like M4 are the best if you don't mind the lower corrosion resistance.
AUS8A in the Finn Wolf will last me about 2 days at camp before it craps out altogether.
I have a case full of higher end steels like m390, 204p, lc200n, s35vn, etc... but my Para 3 lightweight in bd1n and my 14c28n knives get the most use and do pretty much anything I would need.
The steel type is actually a fairly small part of just how well a knife will perform, guys just don't seem to keep in mind that the heat treating can make the biggest part where things like edge rentention and what not are concerned, I.E. take the comparison of a couple of my personal knives, 1 would be my spyderco PM 2 in cpm s110v, cpm s110v should be the king of stay sharp but I have a bradford gaurdinan 4 in the bohler n690 steel that seems to cut circles around it and never seems to dull no mater what, why you ask?, I am fully believing it gets down to nothing more than how well each manufacturer does on the heat treat, both of those steels can achieve anywhere from as low as 57 or 58 rc or as high as 60-62 rc, and I know bradford takes his to a rc of 61 on the gaurdian 4 by giving it the final step of the cryogenic deep freeze treatement, I have to say that it seems spyderco is not doing the same with the cpm110v in the PM2, I don't know how high they take it to on the rc scale but it sure seems not as high as the other guys 690 is taken, in comparison I have 2 knives from Benchmade that use the cpm20cv in them and neither of the other 2 seem to even come close to the edge holding they have, makes me wonder just how high Benchmade hardened them on the scale, sharpening style can make a huge difference on edge retention and other factors like chipping, rolling and just how long the overall service life of the edge will hold up (mine are all done the same on the work sharp keen onion), then you need to bear in mind that even from batch to batch things can change slightly when knives are mass produced at the manufacturer, the only way to have things perfect really is to go with one at a time hand crafted perfection and pay dearly for that perfection if you are a real snob for the utter best performance, that way it will have the perfect edge geometry and perfectly heat treat to the utter best the chosen steel can be because it is done by itself and checked for that best possible and redone untill it is perfect....but that gets mega spendy and there are very few willing to pay for that level of perfect.
I never had a issue with my byrd cara cara 2 in 8cr but have had many issues with cs or sogs aus8. I agree aus8 is below par but not 8cr but to each their own. To me 8cr is the lowest and it has to be a real decent company like kershaw or spyderco. Love the vids especially these type of blog vids. Keep it up. Cheers
Personally, EDCs need to have a steel that will hold an edge for days of EDC use. That is, the tasks one would use their knife for every day. Okay, maybe a day and then while chillaxing, hone it back to a good edge. I've been cutting my biltong into 3mm pieces (snacking) every night for a week with my Mt-5. I stopped using the Opinel because it lost its edge to quick. But maybe that was my sharpening slackness.
Another youtuber called virtuovice did a similar cutting performance test on 2x4's. If you had a bunch of 2x4's from the same source couldn't it be as reliable as your rope test? I dunno, just food for thought. Keep up the great work my friend.
+Smprepper # I considered a few different mediums when I started. 2x4s ended up being a little bulky to have heaps of around the place and would take longer to dull the knives. Plus as its a living material folks could fairly suggest that one plank had a differnet grain than the other. The quickest, roughest stuff was what I was after, which I thought was the rope. To be honest, when I started, I thought the rope would dull them way faster than it does too, and its about the most fibrous/nasty stuff I can think of (apart from thick cardboard, but it turns out buying uniform cardboard boxes to cut up was even costlier!).
Cedric & Ada Gear and Outdoors Yeah that's true. You brought up a good point about abrasives vs natural material. I was trying to think up a uniform and consistent test to perform on a natural material and 2x4's were all I could really think of. I guess just stick with what works.
I am fine with 440c to be honest; I mostly use my stainless knife for a task that would either rust/acid damage or ruin carbon with ugly stains.
440 is enough for a simple edc
Yep...for 99% of people.
Cts-xhp is favourite right now, resharpening is sometimes a pain in the ass tho...
On my fixed blades i like carbon steel and on my folders i prefer s35vn and 154cm but ill go all the way down to anything above 420hc provided the price is ok
I can't relate to most of this, Prefer more traditional type folders or fixed blade. I have two folders with a modern design, a CRKT Voyager and a Schrade 221? both bought for buttons and both relegated to cardboard box duty straight away. I'd prefer an Opinel, Douk Douk or Mam Filmam ''peasant/traditional'' type knife for EDC given a choice, they're inexpensive, light, useful and easy to keep shaving sharp.
I like to stay in the 154cm or S30v area for my folding knife.
Update maybe. Do you still feel this way??
i got a chip on my zdp endura just by sharpening a pencil... really, i might bumped the edge into something without noticing, but the only thing i did with it that day was sharpening a pencil few times...
Carry a spyderco double stuff in you. Or a dc3 or 4. Of a One by three pieces of basswood with some compound on it. lol i know is kinda weird but I carry a dc4 in my bag And with that It doesn’t matter the steel at all. Dc4 and 8cr I can cut whatever away from my house Indefinitely
14C28N can legitimately claim to be the best steel there is:
1. It's the toughest stainless steel, far tougher than Elmax, M390 and other "super" stainless steels (see knifesteelnerds)
2. Good stainlessness which matters for those of us in wet climates
3. Easy to sharpen and takes a wicked edge
4. Reasonable edge holding - obviously not as good as some of the "super" steels but because of point 3, this doesn't matter all that much.
i carry my 940 s90v all day.. good steel
ITALIAN VAPERS definitely good on edge retention - I'll be filming a test on it today I hope!
ITALIAN VAPERS my only issue with s90v is that it can be very chippy.
Great knife, shame about the weak lock springs. Mine (standard 940 with s30v) has failed twice now through very gentle and infrequent use. I'll never buy another one.
axis lock omega springs break all the time. just send it in and get it replaced. then take off the scales and oil the spring so that it wont corrode with time. also use both finger and thumb to release the lock, as that will even the tension out between sides. benchmade say that most failures are due to too much pressure back and excessive opening/closing.
Tactical Centre - I appreciate your response, but to say that 'axis lock omega springs break all the time' does not excuse bad design. I used the finger/thumb release method since the date of purchase as I thought it was the proper way, but still it failed. Twice. And what constitutes 'excessive' opening/closing for a daily work tool? Back locks, liner locks, frame locks etc. have no such problems.
My cut off is 14c28n.
How do feel about 440c or 9cr
Two of the things that I never see taken under consideration in tests like these are (1) edge maintenance and (2) the time required to put a completely new edge on a blade. Here is a test for you to try: go back to the raw footage one of your best supersteel tests (Maxamet or M390) and note how much time you spent cutting rope. Now go back and test one of your marginal steels (Aus 8 would be a good choice) and see how many cuts you can make in the same amount of time, touching up the edge on a small pocket stone as soon as you notice a dip in cutting performance. Because these simple steels can often be brought back to original sharpness with just a few passes on the stone, don't be at all surprised if you can make nearly as many cuts in the same amount of time as you can with the supersteels.
+rockets4kids its very difficult to test edge maintenance in any form of controlled test or repeatable method. I would love to find a way to repewtably test toughness too but it would require significant investment!
I think you are missing the point of my comment. It has nothing to do with your test, and in fact I am assuming that the results have some degree of validity. What I am getting at here is that because maintenance on steels like Aus-8 is so easy it only takes a few seconds on a pocket stone to restore them to razor sharpness. I think you will find that you'll be able to make nearly as many cuts with Aus-8 as you will with M390 in the same amount of time if you maintain the edge while you are cutting.
+rockets4kids oh yeah, if you have a reliable and easy sharpening system, its really then becoming a case of how long the actual steel lasts - for example, ny falcons edge is retreating rather quickly
these days as I sharpen it a lot
That is exactly why you need to learn the difference between *sharpening* and *maintenance* of an edge. You can *maintain* an edge for quite a long time with just a few passes on a fine pocket stone before you need to reset the relief bevel. You have a double hit here using a powered system to reset the relief bevel as it is quite difficult *not* to remove far more metal than is necessary. If you run the knife against a powered abrasive wheel/belt every time the knife starts to get dull you are wasting an *insane* amount of metal. In the process you are making the blade thicker behind the edge and reducing the knife's cutting ability to boot. If you can't maintain the edge using a pocket stone, pick up a Lansky Turnbox or Spyderco Sharpmaker. Both of these are great tools for edge maintenance.
Have you tried 9cr18mov yet? I am curious as to how many cuts it would make on your tests.
1095 on fixed blades, s30 on my folders is the lowest. S35vn is my most common steel on my folders.
Love me some cheap steel, easy to sharpen and my knives don't get used very often.
I'm willing to go as low as 440C.
I have a love-hate relationship with Victorinox because I love its quality but hate the softness of the blade steel. If they launch a higher value line with D2 steel blades it would be a success.
An honorable mention, Buck's 420HC steel is OK.
Really good video...
Very interesting and informative...
What are those knives, starting at the bottom?
I really don’t care
I always and constantly touch up my knives on a DMT EF
So what ever steel I use they are always razor sharp
Thank you this was very helpful
Great chat! Great video!
I can not go over 80 bucks with my budget. I would say 14c28n is the minimum, D2 is good, M390 on the dividend is freaking amazing.
I like my Elmax and M390.
It boils down to 2 things..what are you willing to spend, and how good are you at sharpening? If you can't sharpen to save your life, you may want tp spend a bit extra to get a better steel..if you can't afford to spend the extra for better steel, then you better learn to sharpen decently well, because you will be doing it a lot if you use your knife a lot.
Great video mate