I watch that all the time when I’m feeling down, I like to imagine David Bornenaz asked the director what he wanted him to do and the director just said “go crazy” and that was the result
You don't like the phone gag? It's one of those things that are pretty unique to Angel as a superhero type. He's super old and the world is changing rapidly. And unlike other old hero characters he doesn't wan't any of this, he likes the old days (like, before electricity old days). Captain America tries to keep up and learn. But Angel only has the phone because Cordy made him get it. I just love those gags
I got to agree, I love the phone bit. I love any time the writers make use of the fact that Angel is 250 years old. Either to play up his isolation from the world, show that he is often a fish out of water, or to show that he has a different perspective and unquie insights than most because of his age, sometimes cause he was literally there to witness events. This episode did all these things, along with the dance scene making it kinda enjoyable and a bit of fun, despite the fact that many parts of the episode are rather dull and mixed with a messy theme.
Yosi: Completely agree with you. Angel's difficulties to adapt to new concepts are one of the most charming (and sometimes exasperating) parts of his character, and they make a fantastic contrast with Spike, who's able to embrace anything new in a heartbeat
While I totally agree with you the phone bit specifically is very dated considering how far mobile devices have come in the last 20 years. Also Angel almost crashes his car while distracted by his phone - not the most heroic move!
"It's one of those things that are pretty unique to Angel as a superhero type. He's super old and the world is changing rapidly. And unlike other old hero characters he doesn't wan't any of this, he likes the old days" That's not so special at all, though. There's plenty of superheroes with this shtick - 'The Dark Knight Returns', 'Watchmen', Netflix's Punisher, etc... This type was especially popular in the 1980's (because 80's reactionism). Angel's stuck-in-the-past personality is just another trait that he stole from Batman (Frank Miller's Batman, specifically). And like all those other Batman-y traits (his "Bat-cave", his gadgets, his tendency to fight in dark alleys, his femme fatales, his long flowing black clothes, etc...), it makes Angel feel cliched. #YesIAmGrumpy #FaithShouldHaveBeenTheProtagonistOfThisShow #WesleyWouldHaveBeenABetterProtagonistThanAngelToo #YesIAmBitter #StopRippingOffBatman #BatmanShouldStopRippingOffHimselfToo
I binged all of Angel a little over a year ago to get ready for these guides. The thing about binging is that when so many episodes and story beats that were meant to be experienced week to week are marathoned, the little things become a little fuzzier. When I binge-watch anything I tend to focus on what I like about a show rather than how/why certain episodes may not be the best. All this is to say: I forgot that this episode is where the bits of Angel dancing came from.
I’ve seen the first season of Angel a few times and I completely forgot about this episode to the point that it was like watching it for the first time.. I don’t recall anything, maybe a little bit of the dancing is all
Phantom Dennis Wesley in that giant sweater and awkwardly flirting with that girl I honestly don’t remember anything about this episode except the opening
Lost it at "Burny McBoobWindow," not gonna lie. Also, just spitballing here... how different would season 4 have been had there been more Dennis? Methinks Dennis woulda sniffed out not-really-Cordy from a mile away.
"... An then SHE came along." OMG THAT WAS SUCH A PERFECT INTRO. THE NOIR. THE PUN. THE METAPHOR. THE DELIVERY. DO THEY GIVE OSCARS FOR RUclips VIDEOS?!?!
I really loved this episode. And I definitely saw Jhira as cool, badass, and strangely all the similarities to Buffy. She's a powerful woman burdened by a necessity that only she could help her people. It was a choice rather than a calling but no less valid. Also, I think an important distinction to the scene where Angel was aroused to Jhira is that SHE was attracted to HIM, hence her red hot spiny area. And *her arousal* caused that uncontrollable arousal in Angel.
Y'know, I never knew why I didn't mind watching "She" but also didn't like it. But your review finally answers the question for me. It feels like a missed opportunity and even the good parts are...mishandled. Never made the connection to the Dragon Lady trope before though so makes it much more amazing to see what they were TRYING to do.
This is why i love your channel. I was still living in Rome. My father, that i was visiting on a weekend, had a satellite multichannel thing. I was a huge Buffy fan because they used to aired it dubbed on Italia1(network) so I knew the characters. I was blown away by coming across this Czech Republic network that aired Angel, of which in 2001 knew nothing about, and this was the episode that aired. There was no dubbing, just a voice talking over the English version translating in real time. Still, I forced my dad to watch it all. Shitty episode, but I was blown away by the dance scene at the beginning. That was the moment I realize Angel wasn't going to be the broody character showed in Buffy but a more 3dimensional one. So to explain my initial statement, I love your channel because you notice this little things. Keep it up, brother.
I had completely forgot about this episode until now. Well, I remembered the Wesley and Angel dancing scenes, but I couldn't remember which episode the scenes were from. Hm. I guess my brain went "nah dude" and erased the memory of it or something?😄 Interesting! It was a while ago too though, so, I don't know. ^^ Great video, as always! 😀
Yeah, I vividly remember coming away from this episode the first time watching it with a STRONG sense of ‘wtf’. As a sexual assault survivor myself, it was extremely unsettling to have the message of this seemingly be ‘it takes two to rape’. Angel’s dancing, though!
Absolutely love the guide but these are the episodes I essentially sleep through when showing people Angel, they are strange and gunning for subtext almost feels awkward or something, still, excellent video Ian, though Angel and Wesley dancing in the credits deserved to be in this video :(
If you don’t mind me saying Ian, I think your latest Buffy/Angel reviews have been your best. They’re really incredibly written and delivered. Also she always reminded me of Lady Deathstrike in X-Men 2
Wesley acting horny for the alternate dimension ladies was played as humorous, but given the context it’s super not. Maybe MAYBE it wouldn’t have been so cringey if the women hadn’t all been completely helpless and needing to be literally guided by the hand to safety, but seeing as how they were trying to escape violent sexual persecution, it still would have been inappropriate.
Wait but wasn't that an involuntary thing that happened whenever he made contact with one of the girls? I agree it was cringey but I don't think Wesley was acting horny because he was purely just horny.
One of the main problems I find with this episode is that it seemed to clearly want to bring Jhiera into the role of a guest character who would have their own individual story arc over a number of episodes. However since it ended up being a one-shot, the plot ends up going nowhere. The potential for Jhiera's character going unused I found almost criminal as she could have developed in any number of ways. A villain that cares for nothing beyond her plans, willing to slaughter the rest of the world for those she chooses to protect, a well intentioned extremist throwing herself into mortal danger time and again the hope to save those she can regardless of what she had to sacrifice or an ally willing to work alongside Angel, learning the value of lives beyond the few in her direct care. So much potential and all wasted on a standalone episode that didn't have enough time to work out the intricacies of the plot that we see.
3 is actually my favorite. The early stand alones in season 5 are kind of flat, but I wouldn't call any of them bad and other than that I think the rest of Angel is good to great.
Good for you. Imo season 3 of Angel is the worst in the Buffyverse. The season 3 finale is arguably the worst episode of the show. I don't really like season 5 of Angel either...
I cant even remember half of the plots for the angel seasons; with buffy I can look at an episode for a second or two and know exactly the season, where abouts in the season and the entire plot leading up to it - or know the entire story for a season when i think of it... perhaps i havnt watched angel as many times as buffy lol, and it was always 2nd favourite to me... i can remember lots of things i like in angel but i can also remember LOADS of things I dont like lol...
Aside from the dancing there is another hilarious moment in this episode that I think a lot of people miss. Watch Angel's face when Wesley is talking to the woman at the party and saying all the wrong things. Angel is just standing between them watching the tragic events unfold and his expressions are perfect 😂
Ok so I know I've watched every episode of Buffy and Angel... But god do I not remember this one. I remembered a few beats be jesus this episode was dull. Great vid though.
This episode is not the best, but if you are not trying to find "the meaning of life" in it, it is not dreadful either. I just enjoy watching the most beautiful man who ever walked the face of the earth, playing a great character. They can't all be "Not Fade Away".
I can't with the Chowder thing in the beginning. Love seeing your hard work in the livestream pay off! Also I seriously can't with Giles's face when he's doing the needle thing. It's too funny.
Well, the review wasn't as bad as I expected. Thanks, Ian. It would have been good to tackle the subject of Jhiera sacrificing team Angel to save her women though, part of the grey zone activists face often in extreme situations
Damn! Your last livestream was copyrighted and removed, I was just about to go enjoy it once more with feeling. I'm glad I caught it live, waiting for the next :)
Whatever critisism there is about this episode it is nulified by the dance scene. Also this episode has great character moments, for the main cast from Wesley putting himself out there and Angel's hesitation to do the same to Angel's museum scene this episode was ripe with great moments. Yes the plot and villians could have been done better but again, dance scene.
This is the episode of Angel that sticks in my head the most from my first watch of it when it aired. It's such a standalone, there are so many awkward bits, the story isn't perfect but the worldbuilding of Jhiera's home is done well. It just left an impression on me as memorable yet also somehow forgettable. As an episode of Angel, it's fine if a little clunky. As an episode of TV, I enjoy it quite a bit.
When this first started I thought "She" was "Eternity" and I was very confused by your dislike, but then you continued and I realized I didn't recall this episode at all. ...I'll allow it.
When Angel was just picked up he did a signing at Forbidden Planet London and I can confirm from a few of the people who worked there (I knew them personally and worked there myself later after leaving WBSS Regent Street) and went out clubbing with him afterward that his dancing isn’t much different from that in this episode and this made me so happy 🤣🤣🤣🤣
When re-watching the Buffyverse, I only skip two episodes this one and Buffy's "Where the Wild Things Are". For this one I watch the opening scene and move on. On a side note: I feel bad for Bai Ling, being in two great shows, Lost and Angel, and they are the worst episodes of both shows.
I'm really looking forward to your review of the season 1 finale after your comment that "it's all uphill this season". From what I remember, the bad guy was so campy I almost skipped the episode.
Episode is definitely one of the weaker ones, but almost everyone can agree that dance scene is freaking brilliant. When I watched it, I actually had to rewind it, to make sure what I saw actually happened :P
The opening of the video was the perfect way to describe the episode. The only moment that I believe is even a little good is when Angel hides from the museum guards in plain sight by pretending to be one of their tour guides (as well as Angel and Wesley's dancing which is funny). It shows off his acting skills which come up numerous times in both BtVS and AtS. Although I don't believe he was pretending to have information on the painting, I believe he actually knew that stuff, which BtVS and AtS didn't play with as much as they could or even should have or even the way they could or should have. 3:42 through the end of the video discusses everything I knew was wrong with the episode and in some cases didn't realize was a problem with why I disliked it so much that I loved watching the video over and over. Thankfully it didn't make me want to rewatch the episode though. That would have been the video not doing its job correctly. It IS all uphill from here. It would have been a nightmare if it weren't.
Good review. There were some one off characters that came and went over the course of Angel that I wish we got to see again. This was a case where I wish we saw them again at least once.
The mystical pregnancy trope usually ends withe the "host" dying horribly. That's what mskes it misogynist. Angel does this to BOTH it's female characters, which is why Joss Whedon can take his feminist creds and drown in open sewage.
I've noticed that Marti Noxon episodes, particularly those focused on sexual themes, have a particular tendency to be loaded with (presumably) unintended sexist implications.
My feelings about this episode when I first watched it were "Wow this is such a cool idea but they rushed it and it doesn't fit in the time they devoted to it" and it wasn't until much later when I was participating in the larger Buffyverse fandom that I realized so many people hated it. I don't feel anything here or that is more broadly leveled at this episode is necessarily wrong, but I do think your perspective can change the impression you get from it by the end. The FGM connection wasn't one I made at all and I loved Jhira and hoped she would come back later along with her plotline. Functionally, I just assumed this was our requisite Angel refresher about alternative dimensions being a possible solution or problem later on. The message I got was that men always try to control women's sexuality and sexual expression reguardless of what they do, so the only possible solution is for women to take control of it and choose for themselves, but admittedly it's weak and not well supported as it could be by the episode narrative. I do think it's clumsy and paced weird, and to me feels like the plot of a whole season boiled down into one empty-feeling episode. Or maybe I just like the idea and wanted more of it, not sure. Either way, I don't hate this episode the way people on the internet seem to hate this episode. Plus for me, I guess.
Hi Ian. Off-topic question. I'm guessing that you are aware of the Australian reactor, "After Show Reactions". She's doing Buffy, Angel, Vampire Dairies, Arrow, and others. She's having copyright problems. Would you be willing to talk to her about what has worked for you? Still loving your content, btw.
I'm not sure how helpful I can be. My grounds for fighting copyright was that these are reviews. Criticism is protected speech according to the DMCA (the American digital copyright act that RUclips has to adhere to.) Criticizing a piece of art requires using a certain amount of it in order to make your point, in my case a brief summary and bullet point analysis. I have not watched any reaction videos and I have no idea how reaction videos would apply to the DMCA. I have not seen her content but if I were in her position the argument I would make is that reaction videos are a form of review. Like an impression gathered from a piece of the material itself that conveys something to the people watching the reaction. One major aspect of arguing for the review exception with Fair Use is consideration of how much of the original work you use. I've argued 30-40 copyright flags (I've never taken a video down) now and one of the main things I mention when counter the flag is that I've used just enough of the content to illustrate my points about the movie/video itself. I have heard of reaction videos that show the ENTIRE video again with the person watching it and reaction videos that are heavily edited to just show what was necessary, thus transforming the work (another aspect of fair use) to something different than what it was. So I would be sure I was heavily editing whatever I was watching just to hit the main points. But I don't know. So much of what we do now is completely new and reaction videos are new WITHIN that new. I think there is an argument to be made that they are fair use but I think you'd have to be VERY careful about how you assembled your final product. Another thing to bear in mind is that a lot of people striking things on RUclips do NOT care whether something is fair use or not. They don't have lawyers evaluating each piece of content. They have roomfuls of people making minimum wage sitting in a cubicle farm searching for their properties and striking everything. It's important to educate yourself first about fair use so you can counter that terrifying legalese and not be kept awake at night. When it started happening to me I watched a LOT of content and read up on it. But, as I said, I've never taken a video down since. I would refer your friend to some of the things I consumed when I got started but, if she wants, she can contact me: @iannitram
"I would refer your friend to some of the things I consumed when I got started but, if she wants, she can contact me:" That's great. Thanks, Ian. "I'm not sure how helpful I can be." I certainly don't expect you to work miracles and I'm sure she wouldn't either. I was thinking that since you've had a lot of experience with these issues that you might know the answers to *some* of her questions... if she even wanted to consult someone. I decided to ask you before raising it with her, to avoid putting you in an awkward position and so that I could tell her what your response was. It probably would have been a good idea to mention that first.
btw, I'm rewatching B4 and A1 along with you -- and her -- and I'm enjoying them quite a bit. The Buffyverse is a pretty rich fictional place. I guess you're the last person that I would need to convince of that. :P Take care!
Hey, Ian, McBurney BoobWindow! LOL! I love it! I did love the dance scene, foreshadowing Angel's attempt at karaoke'ing "Mandy" later--the guy is just hopeless--and when Angel curates at the museum, but otherwise.. Oy ve!
I like Angel's struggle to use modern tech, but maybe in this episode, it was a little overdone? I don't know; outside of this guide, I haven't seen it since I first watched it.
did i miss the stream for this one? I enjoyed this video. I think you touched on something I think about sometimes. Which is the traps and pitfalls of any show with a certain lead character. You have to play up to the lead character's strengths to make people care about them. In this world Angel does have to be the hero and having themes of "she needs to find her own strength" are nice but subconsciously always makes me think "ok are men just getting in the way" and as a guy I don't like thinking about that in the show. I remember watching Agent Carter and the thing I found disgusting about the show is it almost bordered the edge of making it seem like Captain America was holding her back from being the hero. The scene that kinda annoyed me was Peggy fighting someone and there's a radio show in the background praising how strong Captain America is and how he saved us. It felt like a passive aggressive dig at Steve Rogers for simply trying to be strong. But his strength somehow overshadowed other people's shine. I love Buffy and Angel for different reasons. And imo Angel does eventually realize to put Angel in positions to look strong and not just be a passenger along for the ride. Really good video this time. This episode was always kinda meh for me even before I ever analyzed it. looking forward to more
About the Agent Carter thing: I always saw that part as saying that the PERCEPTION of Captain America is holding Peggy back. Both because he's "dead" and she needs to move on (the first season is about her grief in a lot of ways), and because of people's reluctance to recognize her heroism the way they recognized Cap's. It's not a dig at Cap, it's a dig at SOCIETY.
Yes, but in a way it's like when your sister gets in trouble and is getting yelled at then she yells "well why don't you yell at him for not doing this and this". It's like you have that person's back then they throw you under the bus whenever they want to show themselves in a better light. It's such a disloyal and underhanded thing a lot of feminist shows do that I hate. You want to point out that there's something wrong in society fine, but don't make it seem like Captain America didn't deserve more credit than her or anyone. He was freaking Captain America and he died for this country. Again like I said this type of (idk if there's a name for it) trope of saying the big strong man's efforts should not be valued higher simply because other people don't get as much recognition is such a frustrating thing to see in feminist type shows. Agent Carter had good elements to it but the whole show kept digging at Captain America. Like PassionoftheNerd said in his video about other tropes, it's not an inherently sexist trope. But doing it badly does make it sexist
I don't understand the purpose of the sister metaphor here. If a sister is getting yelled at more than her brother, for no good reason, then it makes sense to call out that hypocrisy. And if the brother isn't calling out the fact that his sister gets yelled at more, then how can you say that the brother "has that person's back"? It seems to me that the brother is being selfish through his silence, and the sister is simply defending herself. The sister is in the right, in this metaphor. And again - the show WASN'T throwing Cap under the bus. In fact, the show was written by THE SAME WRITERS WHO WROTE THE CAPTAIN AMERICA MOVIES (look it up). The writers weren't attacking Cap at all - his sacrifice was noble and heroic, and no one ever criticized it. The only thing that was criticized was the fact that Peggy wasn't getting the recognition that she deserved, the way Cap did. And that was an attack on society, not on Cap. I don't see anything "disloyal" or "underhanded" about the show's handling of that. And I didn't even like the show all that much. It seemed kinda dull to me, honestly. But this particular criticism just doesn't make sense.
When this came out, i crossed my fingers that i wasnt crazy about hating this episode. I would always skip after the first watch. Cannot wait to get to Eternity.
They were legitimately considering making Jheira a series regular at the time this episode was made. Bai Ling still had star appeal back then. The poor reception to this episode probably contributed to quashing that idea, as did her difficulty speaking clear enough English.
Then change it. Guys need to learn how to control themselves. They claiming that they can’t only implies to me that they aren’t smart enough and have no emotional intelligence LOL. How embarrassing on their part. I can see a good-looking man like Jensen Ackles and know how to control myself, so I expect men to be on the same level as myself.
With how the dudes are over there, it only proves to me how the development of women’s brains are more advanced. I don’t need to have men cutting stuff off to control my impulses LMFAO! Having to treat them like mentally sick children has gotten old… they’re grown up and need to take accountability for their own actions. I’m guessing the men of your country would probably see a show like Angel or Buffy and go “whaaa? I’m so confused”. Clearly, because otherwise they wouldn’t be so dense and act so ridiculous after all this time. It’s weird and loony.
He can't upload too many Buffy/Angel videos at one time because they always get flagged by the show's rights holder, and he can only appeal a small number of strikes per month.
I would say the difference between this and “Helpless” pertains to how we respond when we wake up to the injustices that have been white-washed by our own traditions vs how we respond to injustices we perceive in other cultures. Even fundamentalist evangelicals react to literal FGM as abhorrent; and consider the men who allow/encourage it to be barbaric. It bolsters a sense of moral superiority, and justifies their ongoing blindness to their own sins. And any woman who grew up in “purity culture” (more commonly used within that circle or those of us who came out of it) is going to feel very seen in the symbolism of the young women on ice or the “subdued” woman in white. EDIT: I also want to say that true feminism is supported by positive masculinity. If a strong woman is being assaulted by a few man, a friend or witness (whether it’s a man or a woman, gay or straight, white or POC) is not a good person if they don’t intervene. Sometimes the strongest of us end up in impossible situations and need help-even if that help comes in the form of a “strapping white male”. 😏 I think what tripped people up with Whedon is the same thing that trips them up with Dave Filoni: these guys love their subversions and subtexts; but every so often they decide to acknowledge how frustrating reality can be.
Thanks for saying what I've been thinking about Burny McBoobWindow. After that torment I ALWAYS have to go to this fanvid m.ruclips.net/video/SendZQVVMQM/видео.html to remind me what a treasure my buffyverse is..
Is it ever explained on Buffy or Angel why some humans just randomly are born with superpowers (seemingly) without a mystical connection? Like the girl with telekinesis or the other one with electrokinesis.
Huh. The dance party, and Cordy calling Angel out on his broodiness afterwards are some of my most vividly remembered funny scenes in Angel, yet nothing about what happened afterwards rings a bell in the slightest... either I've turned this episode off halfway through, or I must have repressed it...
I appreciated the sequence where they didn't just go with the (if we count Buffy) 4 seasons and counting trope of "man bad" and tried to challenge the notion of the girls just murdering every dude they found because they literally couldn't hold their urges (Their physiology is dumb af tho). Angel worked as a moral compass in the situation and beyond the "me so horny" trope, it was kinda refreshing. The goal of these shows is to delve in feminist notions and tell a good story but it tends to get a little brusque when they don't have a good story to tell, like some other later angel episodes that just border on misandry. PS: I know that "man bad" is a trope today, not then. That's why I like the buffyverse, back in the day it was fresh, different and the stories were great.
That dance sequence will always be gold.
one of the few things in this world that can cheer me up no matter what.
(the other is the opening credits for The Adventures of the Little Koala)
E. C. Newman I love that dance sequence lol 😂😂
Yep!!!
I watch that all the time when I’m feeling down, I like to imagine David Bornenaz asked the director what he wanted him to do and the director just said “go crazy” and that was the result
The tiny clapping just kills me XD
You don't like the phone gag?
It's one of those things that are pretty unique to Angel as a superhero type. He's super old and the world is changing rapidly.
And unlike other old hero characters he doesn't wan't any of this, he likes the old days (like, before electricity old days). Captain America tries to keep up and learn. But Angel only has the phone because Cordy made him get it.
I just love those gags
I got to agree, I love the phone bit.
I love any time the writers make use of the fact that Angel is 250 years old. Either to play up his isolation from the world, show that he is often a fish out of water, or to show that he has a different perspective and unquie insights than most because of his age, sometimes cause he was literally there to witness events. This episode did all these things, along with the dance scene making it kinda enjoyable and a bit of fun, despite the fact that many parts of the episode are rather dull and mixed with a messy theme.
Yosi: Completely agree with you. Angel's difficulties to adapt to new concepts are one of the most charming (and sometimes exasperating) parts of his character, and they make a fantastic contrast with Spike, who's able to embrace anything new in a heartbeat
'I'm not cheap, I'm just old. I remember when a few bob got you a good meal, a bottle and a tavern wench.'
While I totally agree with you the phone bit specifically is very dated considering how far mobile devices have come in the last 20 years. Also Angel almost crashes his car while distracted by his phone - not the most heroic move!
"It's one of those things that are pretty unique to Angel as a superhero type. He's super old and the world is changing rapidly.
And unlike other old hero characters he doesn't wan't any of this, he likes the old days"
That's not so special at all, though. There's plenty of superheroes with this shtick - 'The Dark Knight Returns', 'Watchmen', Netflix's Punisher, etc... This type was especially popular in the 1980's (because 80's reactionism). Angel's stuck-in-the-past personality is just another trait that he stole from Batman (Frank Miller's Batman, specifically). And like all those other Batman-y traits (his "Bat-cave", his gadgets, his tendency to fight in dark alleys, his femme fatales, his long flowing black clothes, etc...), it makes Angel feel cliched.
#YesIAmGrumpy
#FaithShouldHaveBeenTheProtagonistOfThisShow
#WesleyWouldHaveBeenABetterProtagonistThanAngelToo
#YesIAmBitter
#StopRippingOffBatman
#BatmanShouldStopRippingOffHimselfToo
I binged all of Angel a little over a year ago to get ready for these guides. The thing about binging is that when so many episodes and story beats that were meant to be experienced week to week are marathoned, the little things become a little fuzzier. When I binge-watch anything I tend to focus on what I like about a show rather than how/why certain episodes may not be the best.
All this is to say: I forgot that this episode is where the bits of Angel dancing came from.
I’ve seen the first season of Angel a few times and I completely forgot about this episode to the point that it was like watching it for the first time.. I don’t recall anything, maybe a little bit of the dancing is all
Pros of the episode:
The dance scene
Angel curating at the gallery
Jhiera was sorta cool
Angel goes shirtless again
Ok, that's it.
You forgot Phantom Dennis.
Captain Phoenix true
Phantom Dennis
Wesley in that giant sweater and awkwardly flirting with that girl
I honestly don’t remember anything about this episode except the opening
I love the end credits of this episode with both Angel and Wesley dancing.
Lost it at "Burny McBoobWindow," not gonna lie.
Also, just spitballing here... how different would season 4 have been had there been more Dennis? Methinks Dennis woulda sniffed out not-really-Cordy from a mile away.
"... An then SHE came along."
OMG THAT WAS SUCH A PERFECT INTRO. THE NOIR. THE PUN. THE METAPHOR. THE DELIVERY. DO THEY GIVE OSCARS FOR RUclips VIDEOS?!?!
Do they give awards for over-dramatic RUclips comments?
@@LukeBailey182 THEY SHOULD!
I always forgot everything else that happens in this episode because I just have angel dancing on repeat
I really loved this episode. And I definitely saw Jhira as cool, badass, and strangely all the similarities to Buffy. She's a powerful woman burdened by a necessity that only she could help her people. It was a choice rather than a calling but no less valid.
Also, I think an important distinction to the scene where Angel was aroused to Jhira is that SHE was attracted to HIM, hence her red hot spiny area. And *her arousal* caused that uncontrollable arousal in Angel.
Everybody forgets the ending; i loved it
I'm glad someone pointed it out
I love Pre-Crisis Wesley in these early seasons of Wesley. This episode reminded me of that. Now let's all agree to forget it.
That addition in the intro was the best. It really did all go wrong.
Actually.... I almost stopped watching with the intro addition. I didn't like it at all, an unnecessary mockery
Y'know, I never knew why I didn't mind watching "She" but also didn't like it. But your review finally answers the question for me. It feels like a missed opportunity and even the good parts are...mishandled.
Never made the connection to the Dragon Lady trope before though so makes it much more amazing to see what they were TRYING to do.
This is why i love your channel.
I was still living in Rome. My father, that i was visiting on a weekend, had a satellite multichannel thing. I was a huge Buffy fan because they used to aired it dubbed on Italia1(network) so I knew the characters. I was blown away by coming across this Czech Republic network that aired Angel, of which in 2001 knew nothing about, and this was the episode that aired. There was no dubbing, just a voice talking over the English version translating in real time. Still, I forced my dad to watch it all. Shitty episode, but I was blown away by the dance scene at the beginning. That was the moment I realize Angel wasn't going to be the broody character showed in Buffy but a more 3dimensional one. So to explain my initial statement, I love your channel because you notice this little things. Keep it up, brother.
cannot wait for you to talk about the faith episode
been waiting for that too.
I had completely forgot about this episode until now. Well, I remembered the Wesley and Angel dancing scenes, but I couldn't remember which episode the scenes were from. Hm. I guess my brain went "nah dude" and erased the memory of it or something?😄 Interesting! It was a while ago too though, so, I don't know. ^^
Great video, as always! 😀
I feel like Jhiera needed another episode to click with people. She was such a cool character, and had interesting powers
Dennis is amazing, and the dancing was perfect.
Yeah, I vividly remember coming away from this episode the first time watching it with a STRONG sense of ‘wtf’. As a sexual assault survivor myself, it was extremely unsettling to have the message of this seemingly be ‘it takes two to rape’.
Angel’s dancing, though!
"It's all uphill this season"
Key words being "this season."
Yeah :-( But it never gets THIS bad again.
I totally forgot this episode existed until this video. Maybe for the better
Absolutely love the guide but these are the episodes I essentially sleep through when showing people Angel, they are strange and gunning for subtext almost feels awkward or something, still, excellent video Ian, though Angel and Wesley dancing in the credits deserved to be in this video :(
MauLer yeah Angel season 1 had a rough patch similar to Buffy's 1st season
The810kid i would argue angels rough patch was season 4
@MauLer This is random but are you the same person who did some voiceovers for the "Why I hate" LoL videos?
If you don’t mind me saying Ian, I think your latest Buffy/Angel reviews have been your best. They’re really incredibly written and delivered.
Also she always reminded me of Lady Deathstrike in X-Men 2
I vaguely remember stopping around this episode or after. I really love that I don't have to watch the beginning ones again thanks to your guides!
ever since these live streams, you sir are slaying through these reviews... you have found the right motivation. keep kicking ass
"Boob-window" hahaha...I love that one. I agree that's not a great episode but as always there are some good bits and pieces :-)
Maybe it’s just me but I am a sucker for Angel can’t use technology or Angel is really old gags.
Wesley acting horny for the alternate dimension ladies was played as humorous, but given the context it’s super not. Maybe MAYBE it wouldn’t have been so cringey if the women hadn’t all been completely helpless and needing to be literally guided by the hand to safety, but seeing as how they were trying to escape violent sexual persecution, it still would have been inappropriate.
Wait but wasn't that an involuntary thing that happened whenever he made contact with one of the girls? I agree it was cringey but I don't think Wesley was acting horny because he was purely just horny.
One of the main problems I find with this episode is that it seemed to clearly want to bring Jhiera into the role of a guest character who would have their own individual story arc over a number of episodes. However since it ended up being a one-shot, the plot ends up going nowhere. The potential for Jhiera's character going unused I found almost criminal as she could have developed in any number of ways. A villain that cares for nothing beyond her plans, willing to slaughter the rest of the world for those she chooses to protect, a well intentioned extremist throwing herself into mortal danger time and again the hope to save those she can regardless of what she had to sacrifice or an ally willing to work alongside Angel, learning the value of lives beyond the few in her direct care. So much potential and all wasted on a standalone episode that didn't have enough time to work out the intricacies of the plot that we see.
Richard Warner I prefer the 1st two options as team Angel is perfect with the members they recruited
I think making it an ongoing arc could've worked better. She doesn't have to join the team and could just be like Kate.
The hard part is over, the only two downright bad episodes of Angel are now behind us... let us speak of them no more
Have you seen season 3? it's awful.
3 is actually my favorite. The early stand alones in season 5 are kind of flat, but I wouldn't call any of them bad and other than that I think the rest of Angel is good to great.
Good for you. Imo season 3 of Angel is the worst in the Buffyverse. The season 3 finale is arguably the worst episode of the show. I don't really like season 5 of Angel either...
You forgot to spit.
I cant even remember half of the plots for the angel seasons; with buffy I can look at an episode for a second or two and know exactly the season, where abouts in the season and the entire plot leading up to it - or know the entire story for a season when i think of it... perhaps i havnt watched angel as many times as buffy lol, and it was always 2nd favourite to me... i can remember lots of things i like in angel but i can also remember LOADS of things I dont like lol...
Thank you for Uploading this video on my Birthday
Aside from the dancing there is another hilarious moment in this episode that I think a lot of people miss. Watch Angel's face when Wesley is talking to the woman at the party and saying all the wrong things. Angel is just standing between them watching the tragic events unfold and his expressions are perfect 😂
Ok so I know I've watched every episode of Buffy and Angel... But god do I not remember this one. I remembered a few beats be jesus this episode was dull. Great vid though.
Me too. I have feelings about expecting because I actually remember it. This was just completely forgettable.
This episode is not the best, but if you are not trying to find "the meaning of life" in it, it is not dreadful either. I just enjoy watching the most beautiful man who ever walked the face of the earth, playing a great character. They can't all be "Not Fade Away".
I can't with the Chowder thing in the beginning. Love seeing your hard work in the livestream pay off!
Also I seriously can't with Giles's face when he's doing the needle thing. It's too funny.
Didn't know this was hated, I actually enjoyed this more than Expecting.
Well, the review wasn't as bad as I expected. Thanks, Ian.
It would have been good to tackle the subject of Jhiera sacrificing team Angel to save her women though, part of the grey zone activists face often in extreme situations
tsukigalleta interesting point
I’m so looking forward to your videos on season two. Like holy crap a lot of stuff happens. Yes. Thank you.
i remember this episode and i remember the dance scene
but i did not remember that they are from the same episode
Damn! Your last livestream was copyrighted and removed, I was just about to go enjoy it once more with feeling. I'm glad I caught it live, waiting for the next :)
Whatever critisism there is about this episode it is nulified by the dance scene. Also this episode has great character moments, for the main cast from Wesley putting himself out there and Angel's hesitation to do the same to Angel's museum scene this episode was ripe with great moments. Yes the plot and villians could have been done better but again, dance scene.
She is not a terrible episode. It was just an unfulfilled Sci-Fi series instead of an episode of Angel.
The clapping is the best part.
The dance scene helped me through S1 lol and I love Cordy of course
I love your reviews. Seriously spot on
This is the episode of Angel that sticks in my head the most from my first watch of it when it aired. It's such a standalone, there are so many awkward bits, the story isn't perfect but the worldbuilding of Jhiera's home is done well. It just left an impression on me as memorable yet also somehow forgettable. As an episode of Angel, it's fine if a little clunky. As an episode of TV, I enjoy it quite a bit.
When this first started I thought "She" was "Eternity" and I was very confused by your dislike, but then you continued and I realized I didn't recall this episode at all.
...I'll allow it.
Good review. Favorite Cordy quote: "It smells like flower poop!"
And the ride towards the end of season begins, and what a last reveal we get, but that's for later. Great review.
When Angel was just picked up he did a signing at Forbidden Planet London and I can confirm from a few of the people who worked there (I knew them personally and worked there myself later after leaving WBSS Regent Street) and went out clubbing with him afterward that his dancing isn’t much different from that in this episode and this made me so happy 🤣🤣🤣🤣
This episode was just fun and sad at the time Wheadon is really good at that
Sean Gunn also played Lucas in "Hero" just a few episodes back.
I knew I never liked this episode but I couldn't explain exactly why. Thank you for helping me understand my hatred.
When re-watching the Buffyverse, I only skip two episodes this one and Buffy's "Where the Wild Things Are". For this one I watch the opening scene and move on. On a side note: I feel bad for Bai Ling, being in two great shows, Lost and Angel, and they are the worst episodes of both shows.
Aaron M. Carpenter uhhhhh Nikki and paulo
I hate to be that guy, but I really have never been this early before.
Hey! Angel being unable to use a cell phone properly was one of the show's good gimmicks.
I remember watching She and the I in Team in the same week and turning off my TV and going, "welp...there's always next week."
It could be the worst TV episode of all time but the Angel Dance "daydream" is like one of my top 5 things in the Buffyverse.
I'm really looking forward to your review of the season 1 finale after your comment that "it's all uphill this season".
From what I remember, the bad guy was so campy I almost skipped the episode.
Alan Hegewisch yep
Episode is definitely one of the weaker ones, but almost everyone can agree that dance scene is freaking brilliant.
When I watched it, I actually had to rewind it, to make sure what I saw actually happened :P
I didn't remember this episode...
Thanks!
Love the noir sounding opening monologue 😂
Burny McBoob Window
The opening of the video was the perfect way to describe the episode. The only moment that I believe is even a little good is when Angel hides from the museum guards in plain sight by pretending to be one of their tour guides (as well as Angel and Wesley's dancing which is funny). It shows off his acting skills which come up numerous times in both BtVS and AtS. Although I don't believe he was pretending to have information on the painting, I believe he actually knew that stuff, which BtVS and AtS didn't play with as much as they could or even should have or even the way they could or should have.
3:42 through the end of the video discusses everything I knew was wrong with the episode and in some cases didn't realize was a problem with why I disliked it so much that I loved watching the video over and over. Thankfully it didn't make me want to rewatch the episode though. That would have been the video not doing its job correctly.
It IS all uphill from here. It would have been a nightmare if it weren't.
This episode almost derailed me from this show. Glad I stuck with it.
SQUAD. Also, this episode...
Good review.
There were some one off characters that came and went over the course of Angel that I wish we got to see again. This was a case where I wish we saw them again at least once.
The mystical pregnancy trope usually ends withe the "host" dying horribly. That's what mskes it misogynist. Angel does this to BOTH it's female characters, which is why Joss Whedon can take his feminist creds and drown in open sewage.
Love your reviews man Angel and buffy' s a great show
Bernie McBoob Woman. ROTFL. That was worth the pain you paid watching this episode.
I've noticed that Marti Noxon episodes, particularly those focused on sexual themes, have a particular tendency to be loaded with (presumably) unintended sexist implications.
Bai Ling is so underated all I'm gonna say is Dumplings
holy shit i always forget this episode... now i know why...
The bored warlock having had created the cell phone was funny ... At least I think so, as I'm old enough to remember the shitty cell phones of old.
My feelings about this episode when I first watched it were "Wow this is such a cool idea but they rushed it and it doesn't fit in the time they devoted to it" and it wasn't until much later when I was participating in the larger Buffyverse fandom that I realized so many people hated it.
I don't feel anything here or that is more broadly leveled at this episode is necessarily wrong, but I do think your perspective can change the impression you get from it by the end. The FGM connection wasn't one I made at all and I loved Jhira and hoped she would come back later along with her plotline. Functionally, I just assumed this was our requisite Angel refresher about alternative dimensions being a possible solution or problem later on. The message I got was that men always try to control women's sexuality and sexual expression reguardless of what they do, so the only possible solution is for women to take control of it and choose for themselves, but admittedly it's weak and not well supported as it could be by the episode narrative.
I do think it's clumsy and paced weird, and to me feels like the plot of a whole season boiled down into one empty-feeling episode. Or maybe I just like the idea and wanted more of it, not sure. Either way, I don't hate this episode the way people on the internet seem to hate this episode. Plus for me, I guess.
Fun fact: The lady who was in She was also in a movie called The Breed which starred Adrian Paul from Highlander the Series
She was also in The Crow with Brandon Lee.
Hi Ian.
Off-topic question.
I'm guessing that you are aware of the Australian reactor, "After Show Reactions". She's doing Buffy, Angel, Vampire Dairies, Arrow, and others.
She's having copyright problems. Would you be willing to talk to her about what has worked for you?
Still loving your content, btw.
I'm not sure how helpful I can be. My grounds for fighting copyright was that these are reviews. Criticism is protected speech according to the DMCA (the American digital copyright act that RUclips has to adhere to.) Criticizing a piece of art requires using a certain amount of it in order to make your point, in my case a brief summary and bullet point analysis.
I have not watched any reaction videos and I have no idea how reaction videos would apply to the DMCA. I have not seen her content but if I were in her position the argument I would make is that reaction videos are a form of review. Like an impression gathered from a piece of the material itself that conveys something to the people watching the reaction.
One major aspect of arguing for the review exception with Fair Use is consideration of how much of the original work you use. I've argued 30-40 copyright flags (I've never taken a video down) now and one of the main things I mention when counter the flag is that I've used just enough of the content to illustrate my points about the movie/video itself. I have heard of reaction videos that show the ENTIRE video again with the person watching it and reaction videos that are heavily edited to just show what was necessary, thus transforming the work (another aspect of fair use) to something different than what it was. So I would be sure I was heavily editing whatever I was watching just to hit the main points.
But I don't know. So much of what we do now is completely new and reaction videos are new WITHIN that new. I think there is an argument to be made that they are fair use but I think you'd have to be VERY careful about how you assembled your final product. Another thing to bear in mind is that a lot of people striking things on RUclips do NOT care whether something is fair use or not. They don't have lawyers evaluating each piece of content. They have roomfuls of people making minimum wage sitting in a cubicle farm searching for their properties and striking everything. It's important to educate yourself first about fair use so you can counter that terrifying legalese and not be kept awake at night. When it started happening to me I watched a LOT of content and read up on it. But, as I said, I've never taken a video down since.
I would refer your friend to some of the things I consumed when I got started but, if she wants, she can contact me: @iannitram
"I would refer your friend to some of the things I consumed when I got started but, if she wants, she can contact me:"
That's great. Thanks, Ian.
"I'm not sure how helpful I can be."
I certainly don't expect you to work miracles and I'm sure she wouldn't either. I was thinking that since you've had a lot of experience with these issues that you might know the answers to *some* of her questions... if she even wanted to consult someone.
I decided to ask you before raising it with her, to avoid putting you in an awkward position and so that I could tell her what your response was. It probably would have been a good idea to mention that first.
btw, I'm rewatching B4 and A1 along with you -- and her -- and I'm enjoying them quite a bit.
The Buffyverse is a pretty rich fictional place. I guess you're the last person that I would need to convince of that. :P
Take care!
Hey, Ian,
McBurney BoobWindow! LOL! I love it!
I did love the dance scene, foreshadowing Angel's attempt at karaoke'ing "Mandy" later--the guy is just hopeless--and when Angel curates at the museum, but otherwise..
Oy ve!
Btw, LOVED your intro..."and then SHE came along..."
I like Angel's struggle to use modern tech, but maybe in this episode, it was a little overdone? I don't know; outside of this guide, I haven't seen it since I first watched it.
Alex Hyde g
Alex Hyde wait until the episode in season 3 where Angel doesn't know how to check his voice messages for his cell phone
did i miss the stream for this one? I enjoyed this video. I think you touched on something I think about sometimes. Which is the traps and pitfalls of any show with a certain lead character. You have to play up to the lead character's strengths to make people care about them. In this world Angel does have to be the hero and having themes of "she needs to find her own strength" are nice but subconsciously always makes me think "ok are men just getting in the way" and as a guy I don't like thinking about that in the show.
I remember watching Agent Carter and the thing I found disgusting about the show is it almost bordered the edge of making it seem like Captain America was holding her back from being the hero. The scene that kinda annoyed me was Peggy fighting someone and there's a radio show in the background praising how strong Captain America is and how he saved us. It felt like a passive aggressive dig at Steve Rogers for simply trying to be strong. But his strength somehow overshadowed other people's shine.
I love Buffy and Angel for different reasons. And imo Angel does eventually realize to put Angel in positions to look strong and not just be a passenger along for the ride.
Really good video this time. This episode was always kinda meh for me even before I ever analyzed it. looking forward to more
About the Agent Carter thing:
I always saw that part as saying that the PERCEPTION of Captain America is holding Peggy back. Both because he's "dead" and she needs to move on (the first season is about her grief in a lot of ways), and because of people's reluctance to recognize her heroism the way they recognized Cap's. It's not a dig at Cap, it's a dig at SOCIETY.
Yes, but in a way it's like when your sister gets in trouble and is getting yelled at then she yells "well why don't you yell at him for not doing this and this". It's like you have that person's back then they throw you under the bus whenever they want to show themselves in a better light. It's such a disloyal and underhanded thing a lot of feminist shows do that I hate. You want to point out that there's something wrong in society fine, but don't make it seem like Captain America didn't deserve more credit than her or anyone. He was freaking Captain America and he died for this country. Again like I said this type of (idk if there's a name for it) trope of saying the big strong man's efforts should not be valued higher simply because other people don't get as much recognition is such a frustrating thing to see in feminist type shows. Agent Carter had good elements to it but the whole show kept digging at Captain America. Like PassionoftheNerd said in his video about other tropes, it's not an inherently sexist trope. But doing it badly does make it sexist
I don't understand the purpose of the sister metaphor here. If a sister is getting yelled at more than her brother, for no good reason, then it makes sense to call out that hypocrisy. And if the brother isn't calling out the fact that his sister gets yelled at more, then how can you say that the brother "has that person's back"? It seems to me that the brother is being selfish through his silence, and the sister is simply defending herself.
The sister is in the right, in this metaphor.
And again - the show WASN'T throwing Cap under the bus. In fact, the show was written by THE SAME WRITERS WHO WROTE THE CAPTAIN AMERICA MOVIES (look it up). The writers weren't attacking Cap at all - his sacrifice was noble and heroic, and no one ever criticized it. The only thing that was criticized was the fact that Peggy wasn't getting the recognition that she deserved, the way Cap did. And that was an attack on society, not on Cap. I don't see anything "disloyal" or "underhanded" about the show's handling of that.
And I didn't even like the show all that much. It seemed kinda dull to me, honestly. But this particular criticism just doesn't make sense.
No Diggity MRA much?
Chesterette well that contributes nothing to the conversation
When this came out, i crossed my fingers that i wasnt crazy about hating this episode. I would always skip after the first watch.
Cannot wait to get to Eternity.
They were legitimately considering making Jheira a series regular at the time this episode was made. Bai Ling still had star appeal back then. The poor reception to this episode probably contributed to quashing that idea, as did her difficulty speaking clear enough English.
And then she came along
05:18
You just explained our daily life in Iran... wow, we made it to Buffyverse as villains :))
Gosh, I hate this wild wasteland so much.
Then change it. Guys need to learn how to control themselves. They claiming that they can’t only implies to me that they aren’t smart enough and have no emotional intelligence LOL. How embarrassing on their part. I can see a good-looking man like Jensen Ackles and know how to control myself, so I expect men to be on the same level as myself.
With how the dudes are over there, it only proves to me how the development of women’s brains are more advanced. I don’t need to have men cutting stuff off to control my impulses LMFAO! Having to treat them like mentally sick children has gotten old… they’re grown up and need to take accountability for their own actions. I’m guessing the men of your country would probably see a show like Angel or Buffy and go “whaaa? I’m so confused”. Clearly, because otherwise they wouldn’t be so dense and act so ridiculous after all this time. It’s weird and loony.
Chowder intro is the best intro.
Whenever I watch Person of interest I think back on Angel
this message is so creepingly way to close to the real world..
But Angel IS antiquated... he is old. :-)
P.S. Glad you kept that comment in there.
Have to say pal you do a great job but I would only ask that you upload their video more often but all the same keep up the good work
probably takes him awhile to do the research and get the script together
No Diggity very true
He can't upload too many Buffy/Angel videos at one time because they always get flagged by the show's rights holder, and he can only appeal a small number of strikes per month.
I dislike this episode so much that I almost didn't watch this review. So glad that I did. Your intro made it all worthwhile.
Notification Squad!
I would say the difference between this and “Helpless” pertains to how we respond when we wake up to the injustices that have been white-washed by our own traditions vs how we respond to injustices we perceive in other cultures. Even fundamentalist evangelicals react to literal FGM as abhorrent; and consider the men who allow/encourage it to be barbaric. It bolsters a sense of moral superiority, and justifies their ongoing blindness to their own sins.
And any woman who grew up in “purity culture” (more commonly used within that circle or those of us who came out of it) is going to feel very seen in the symbolism of the young women on ice or the “subdued” woman in white.
EDIT: I also want to say that true feminism is supported by positive masculinity. If a strong woman is being assaulted by a few man, a friend or witness (whether it’s a man or a woman, gay or straight, white or POC) is not a good person if they don’t intervene. Sometimes the strongest of us end up in impossible situations and need help-even if that help comes in the form of a “strapping white male”. 😏
I think what tripped people up with Whedon is the same thing that trips them up with Dave Filoni: these guys love their subversions and subtexts; but every so often they decide to acknowledge how frustrating reality can be.
Accurate as always!
Was I the only one to think to 1984 by George Orwell, or THE GIVER seeing the episode besides than Female Genital Mutilation?
Kial Marti Noxon ne skribis aliajn epizodojn per "Angel"?
Does anyone else remember a time when James was Sean Gunn's brother and not the other way around?
Thanks for saying what I've been thinking about Burny McBoobWindow. After that torment I ALWAYS have to go to this fanvid m.ruclips.net/video/SendZQVVMQM/видео.html to remind me what a treasure my buffyverse is..
Is it ever explained on Buffy or Angel why some humans just randomly are born with superpowers (seemingly) without a mystical connection? Like the girl with telekinesis or the other one with electrokinesis.
Huh. The dance party, and Cordy calling Angel out on his broodiness afterwards are some of my most vividly remembered funny scenes in Angel, yet nothing about what happened afterwards rings a bell in the slightest... either I've turned this episode off halfway through, or I must have repressed it...
I was expecting an end credits scene of wes\angel dancing..... I feel so disappointed Ian!
And yes, "she" was a totally forgettable episode.
I went back to the well twice on that one.
I appreciated the sequence where they didn't just go with the (if we count Buffy) 4 seasons and counting trope of "man bad" and tried to challenge the notion of the girls just murdering every dude they found because they literally couldn't hold their urges (Their physiology is dumb af tho). Angel worked as a moral compass in the situation and beyond the "me so horny" trope, it was kinda refreshing. The goal of these shows is to delve in feminist notions and tell a good story but it tends to get a little brusque when they don't have a good story to tell, like some other later angel episodes that just border on misandry.
PS: I know that "man bad" is a trope today, not then. That's why I like the buffyverse, back in the day it was fresh, different and the stories were great.
I've seen Angel several times, once recently even, but I genuinely don't remember this episode at all.