Heating an off-grid ham radio station in winter
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- Опубликовано: 24 янв 2024
- The Lithium LiFePO4 batteries used in the off-grid ham radio station must be protected from freezing temperatures during charging. In this video, I demonstrate how a Chinese diesel heater can keep our lithium batteries, and the off-grid ham shack warm enough for charging in winter, even when it's far below freezing outside.
73
Julian #oh8stn
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Here's the links to share the video as well as the episode notes.
73
Julian oh8stn
Share vidro utl: ruclips.net/video/Rp7MmarKKjM/видео.html
Episode notes: oh8stn.org/blog/2024/01/25/keeping-lithium-batteries-warm-in-winter/
This is why I'm glad I live alone. I have my shack be in my office, and the home is heated with a woodstove in the living room.
lots to consider in regard to offgrid hamshacks and offgrid living.
People who think electrification is the answer to climate change need to watch this video. Thank you man, keep up the good work
Never had an issue with your audio but the new microphone is smoother. 73 Julian
Thanks for the feedback 👍
Not 5 minutes after watching this I find an advert for a LiFePO4 with internal heater in my email.... THEY'RE WATCHING!!!! LOL
🤣
That's Ai
@@sh839cmore like A. Spy...
I heat my shack (garage) with a wall mount 30K BTU natural gas heater. It was cheap, no electric needed to be run to it, and I had a natural gas line right there. I'd imagine it uses little, it's almost never on hi. 73
J,
I am sure that in your part of the world you have something like a wood fired boiler that has a water jacket and a manifold. You would hook up water pipes in the typical installation would be to run them underneath the floor the small wood fire boiler would be outside obviously, it heats the water and heats your shack. I’m told from friends that have these devices they can basically heat an entire house on a couple of sticks of wood per day.
Thank you... Interesting unit. Ill get one for heating a small outside shed. Fairbanks Alaska is currently -40F / same as -40C today.
Thanks for the comment. You definitely understand what we're going through.
Be safe, stay warm 👍
Morning Julian. 15 C here in the Ozarks. Waiting for another freeze forecasted. Schizophrenic weather this year.
Sounds like a great option for shack heating. Relatively inexpensive heater, abundant fuel. More and more a concern as LiFePO4 adoption grows in various home uses.
Those are great heaters, i mount them in boats and a bunch of stuff! I would mount inside and run exhaust through wall with the proper fitting like we do on boats and cabins. You then circulate intake air from inside and not cold outside air and its a lot more efficient. Espar heaters 8 to 10 times more and i still install them becasue they are serviceable and parts available.
About 20 years ago I bought 6 Espar heaters at auction for only $200. Out of the lot I have easily constructed two working heaters. These are the early DL1 heaters but they work like a charm. Only thing I did not receive in the lot were the pumps. Had to order it from a dealer who was the authorized sales center for these units. Back then an authentic pump cost $140 in the states. To day Chinese pumps are cheap but there are some alternatives.
much more efficient but what if your area to heat is only 100-120 square feet???
more than one way to measure efficiency.
@@sk8crk They have thermostats and they ramp the burner, pump, and fan up or down depending on demand.
@@LaneGiesler-KL5PK i was talking in regard to fresh air intake
I always enjoy the knowledge you share with everyone! Keep up the great work!
73
W5RDC
🙏 Thank you.
73
Julian oh8stn
Those Chinese diesel heaters seem to be very popular and a great economical option for applications like yours. The modification will make it even better.
Julian have you considered insulating that corrugated metal pipe. I’m sure you’re loosing some efficiency to the cold since it’s kind of like a giant heatsink out there.
For the ice fishing “portable” set up something like the SOK battery might be worth the extra cost because of the ruggedized case and low temperature charging disconnect.
Great video man. Very informative and thought provoking.
Audio is great, I’ve never had an issue with your audio. Perhaps this is because you annunciate unlike those of us in the states.
Diesel starts gelling at -10°C. Could you keep the tank inside? Making an enclosure for the heater will help keep it and the fuel lines from gelling as well. Adding some kerosene can help keep it from gelling as well. Could you put a woodstove outside and just run the flue through the shack? A rocket stove is cheap and easy to make. That would allow a long run of flue along the floor of the shack. Stack some bricks around it, or encase it in concrete and that thermal mass will continue to radiate heat long after the stove goes out.
I have a diesel heater much like yours, which I intend to install in my utility trailer (improvised off-grid/hunting camper) this year. However, I'm going to be installing it inside the trailer in it's entirety, running the exhaust outside (down and out), and the diesel tank mounted on the tongue. I suppose you could say, the opposite of what you've done there. I fear you might be losing some of your precious heat to the elements. Therefore I might recommend insulating your duct work. Even if it just saves you a little runtime.
Goes without saying Julien always a pleasure and a learning experience, cheers, gd dx n keep warm/well, you have definitely peaked my interest for a diesel heater, its a gd option. I use a combination of electric, propane and pellet system for heat in Bulgaria, always 1 works!! I will add a diesel heater as an additional option!!
Thanks!
Thank you 🙏
I enjoy your videos so much! Things that would not "ever" come up in my environment have happened over the last couple of years. (Temps in Texas below 20 degrees Fahrenheit for several days).
I have invested in batteries that I didn't know wouldn't charge in these temps, so your insight and solutions are very helpful.
Thanks for the video!
73,
Brett K5WXP
Run my D heater on red diesel (less tax in the Uk) Don't put it in your car coz you will get nicked. Big fan of diesel heaters many thanks for the video.
Some Chinese heaters have a controller that will thermostaticly shut down and turn back on as needed
Indeed. I didn't know about them when starting this project. Ironically I just saw an advertisement for one, after publishing this video 🤣
Take air from inside haystack. Vs. Outside ambient colder air. This way your reheating inside air. (Loke a car recirculate)
I'll give this try. 👍
No issues about the audio from me.
Make sure to use winter diesel to prevent it from turning into gel in freezing temps. Non diesel user may not know this.
On the heat exchanger there's a return heat it's on the opposite side of the main hose that you pipe inside the building instead of pulling that air from outside it needs to be attached to the building just like the hot air inlet this way you recirculating hot air and not pulling the cold air from the outside to heat up was also stops any of the exhaust fumes from getting pulled into the building as well this normally is not a problem because people usually have the whole unit inside therefore it's already automatically recirculating the air without an additional pipe it only becomes a problem when you mount the thing outside I hope this is better it actually deleted the other post I apologize
Excellent advice I will certainly do this! Thanks for taking the time to explain. 🙏👍
Another option is to put some sort of air valve on the cold air inlet after you instal it to the inside so you can adjust the mixture of return warm air with some fresh air. Just enough to remove a bit of stale air while working inside the shack. I have one of the Gitchners connex style radio boxes( the 20x8x7 ) that has an ECU attached to one opening. On it they have a damper that one can adjust the amount of fresh air brought into the container. This is another on going restoration project 😢.
Thanks for responding
I always try to respond but sometimes Some get through the cracks.
Thanks for watching and commenting. It's very much appreciated.
Not a problem. I look forward to each video you make, very informative & inspiring. Keep up the vidio ,you'll probably never how much we other hamm appreciate all that you do. KD9WTH- 73
Bonjour,
Tres intéressant, je ne suis pas concerné par ces température mais il fait que 7 degré celcius dans mon local, donc je stock mes batteries de radio à l'intérieur de la maison
Excellent
Merci
Keeping them LiFePO4's warm is always a concern. I'm starting to see self-heating large RV lithiums to address this issue.
Indeed! In fact, I didn't know they existed when I got the first of this. Set of batteries. If you look in the episode notes, there's a LiFePO4 battery version mentioned there, which has a self heating feature built in.
I install lithium batteries in RV"s for a living. I make sure they purchase batteries that have some sort of low temperature protection in the description.
I think to Cresson H. Kearny's book, as well as permaculture tech...big takeaway: DIG DOWN.
5-6 feet in ground and the structure is covered = ambient temp of 50-60F.
If its 'main HQ' and permanent/semi-permanent, rather than forward-line position: this makes 100% sense.
Just run a longer antenna/tower. This can act like a heatsink, so minimize connection of above-ground and below-ground.
Even 3ft down (instead of 6ft+) and you warm ambient temp by >=10-20F when running electronics or there are ppl in it; let alone something like stove/heater.
4
Agreed. We have a root cellar which remains temp stable all year round. To dink a radio room sized underground space requires lots of work, but does make since.
@@OH8STN1 person, yes. But read Nuclear War Survival Skills.
It talks about how you dig such structures as a group: 4-8 ppl and it'll take a day (8-10hrs), maybe far less depending on soil composition.
Look at what vietkong did in 'nam: with their tunnel systems and radio rooms. Sure those were built over months/years...but at times they'd flood/backfill them in, (in other part of tunnel) just dig new one, and a antenna hole, disguise with hollowed out bamboo. etc.
1000L=264.172 gal
Dealing with similar issues. Have 87kw of lithium batteries. Was doing diesel heater also, but for total offgrid. Diesel is a consu.abke resource. Have you thought about using rv tank heaters. (12/24vdc squar pad heating pads. And have them turn at xx degrees. Sandwich them between your batteries. That's what I'm looking at doing. Possible feed them from. Old gel batteries I have laying around (with a dedicated solar panel charging battiers feed heaters)
You know that's a magnificent idea. I think I'd have to build a small closet to mount the batteries, But that might allow me to heat just the battery space when I am not in the hamshack. This sounds like a brilliant idea. Do they consume a lot of amps?
Yes, and if you put extra insulation around the batteries that will help, too, as just the act of charging and discharging them creates heat as well.
@@OH8STNGood points, but you still have to warm your radios too, as you mentioned near the end.
Any problems with the diesel fuel gelling at your latitude? We had that problem with the fuel filter on our generator during an outdoor training exercise here in New England. We were only able to get it going by wrapping one of those chemical hand warmers around it.
This is a topic I can add to the episode notes. In fact yes! We had a few days here below -30c/-22f. We had to switch over to the arctic diesel fuel which has a lower freezing point. I like the chemical handwarmer idea by the way. And you're right, It was the fuel filter which couldn't handle the thicker less viscous diesel fuel. With the arctic diesel it doesn't happen anymore.
Excellent feedback and comment.
Even in Texas we are warned about gelling, although my diesel tractor is not used in winter.
In the USA they are labeled diesel #1 (kerosene) and diesel #2 (normal on-off road low sulfur)
#1 is strongly recommended in a 50% blend with #2 in very cold conditions. Sometimes requiring #1 only to eliminate gelling. Great episode @oh8stn
Great insight to what is possible thankyou Dylan just a quick question do u still use the ic-705 for portable Or the tx500? Be well
Julian can you buy, non-road taxed diesel in-country? It's Red Dyed Diesel in Thee States.
Thank you for the testing and your time bringing us along, I've learned so much here!
Thanks for watching and commenting. Yes, we can buy it, but the lefty greenies have made it nearly as expensive as normal diesel. 😪
@@OH8STN That's unfortunate for your agricultural sector and price of food :/
Something to note;
I presume all diesel in your A.O. is winterized, but something to note I had a newer tractor not start in -10F not because of gelling diesel fuel but rather the glow plugs could not be activated. Either by some tempt control unit in the machine or by the literal cold tempts I'm not sure.
Ended up warming the machine with a propane stove (with extreme care) in the elements for over an hour, just manage the snow fall and move the machine indoors.
A potential problem with the wood stove, is the smoke contains particulates which could potentially damage the radios and computers etc
What about humidity issues in the shack or are you maintaing temps?
Humidity is one of the reasons for using the diesel heater. It is a very dry heat, keeping the space rather consistent in humidity and temperature. Perhaps in a few weeks i've do a video on monitoring the environmental variables outside and in the shack.
Where do you store your diesel to prevent it from freezing?
Did you have issues with RF Noise being produced on HF Bands from this diesel heater? I've heard of some having this issue
How much fuel will you use in an unusually cold winter? I'm scientifically guessing that you have at least two winters' worth of heat in your 1,000L of fuel. I don't think diesel will ever be completely unavailable long term, though local short term outages are probable.
How are you storing it?
Is the warmed air blowing on the batteries, or just in a general direction?
It's just an in general direction as it's heeding the entire space. Do you have another idea? Please share 🙏👍
@OH8STN No more, just wondering.
Not in a cold place so no heating required. The lowest we have is 7 degree celcius so heating not an issue.
Very nice. Sometimes I miss my work North Africa. No arthritis, No 5kg winter coat, no bears.
Thanks for watching and commenting.
Are you going to put a roof over top of the heater? To keep the snow off the heater KD9WTH 73
Yes, we will build an enclosure around it when it's warmer. 👍
HI i dident know you ar limited at fuel storage only up to 1000L in winter i count on may iron nikel batery bank i dont use litium in winter it is too cold here in winter vold hav problems with everiting lov the whay you mounted the heater loks similar with what my truk has from factory the mobil ham sach has its own heting batery bank and generator unit
264 gallons
Jus' gotta ask ya, Julian: wouldn't it be soooo much easier/better to have your ham shack >inside< your house? If your spouse is you obstacle, you tell her she can have her own hobby that costs as much as your radios (friend did that with his wife and her horses). She can also benefit from your batts to power the tv when the public power goes out. ;-))
She kicked me, my radios, my motorcycle, and my 3d printer out of the house. She wanted us to make room for my music equipment 🤣
The ham shack is a safe, warm space in shtf also.
Your a musician?
@@OH8STN "... shtf also ..." I.E., when you piss off the spouse? ;-))
Keyboards, marimba, bells and a little contra bass
Nice videos
j88NFD
Why not just use a 12V heater?
Great question. If I were only hitting the battery box. It would be okay for sure to amount of time. Sadly twelve volt heaters are notoriously inefficient. If I were at a lower latitude it would be fine. But because i'm charging off grid with solar power, It might not be possible to keep up with the load.
Thanks for watching and commenting and again that was an excellent question.
If what you are doing is "rambling", I hope you heed an imperitive from Led Zeppelin and "Ramble On!"
1 Euro equals $1.09 USD
🙏👍
Yeah, bummer. Hoping the dollar gains against the euro soon, cuts into one’s retirement funds fast.
To be fair, those dead EVs were in were -27°C/-10°F. Diesel starts gelling at -10°C/15°F. You need a block heater and tank/fuel line heater once you start going much below those temps. So it's not like EVs are worse, they're just new tech. We have over a hundred years of experience running gas and diesel vehicles in extreme cold, and even then people were waking up to cars that wouldn't start. Also, all you need to do for a Tesla is punch in a stop at a charger and the Tesla will start pre-condioning the battery so that it can charge at max speed. These people lklely just pulled in without doing that, so the car didn't know to start pre-heating. Also, the range does drop and people probably weren't planning on that. Like, if you drive 40km/day for work, you're probably used to hitting a charging station once per week. But in the winter you'll need to add a charging stop mid-week and that can throw people off. But, if you're plugged in at home, set it to start prewarming a half hour before you leave - you'll come out to a warm interior, snow and ice melted off all the windows, and a warm, full, happy battery. Keep in mind that countries like Norway and Sweden are already around 90% of new cars being EVs, so they can certainly handle the cold! My cousin in Winnipeg (northern Canada) loves his Model Y!
In northern europe a winter diesel fuel available from the beginning of the cold season. In arctic regions special classes of fuel are available (EN 590 Class 1 to 4) - down to -44 C
your audio is no worse than listening to the guys on wires-x. just normalize and send it. I dont mind.
If what you are doing is "rambling", I hope you heed an imperitive from Led Zeppelin and "Ramble On!"