The book is definitely worth a read though. I think I hated every character in the book besides Eddie by the end, and I don't mean that in a bad way at all.
In regards to 'the dip': during the early animation years (30s-50s), as a cost saving measure, Disney, Warner Bros. and their contemporaries used to reuse the animation cels from finished productions by scraping off the artwork and giving them 'the dip' to clean off the cel so it could be used for a new production (since every frame of animation required its own cel). It isn't just some crazy idea made for the film, its based on a niche part of animation history!
Roger Rabbit's animation director Richard Williams (best known for his insane unfinished film The Thief and the Cobbler, may he rest in peace , etc. etc.) was probably the one responsible for the attention to detail with the animation. He was a notorious perfectionist and would take forever to finish stuff if left to his own devices. The scene in the prohibition room with the lamp actually inspired the term "bumping the lamp" which is used in animation and film to mean "going above and beyond expectations/requirements".
Yes! He wrote a/the book on animation, The Animator's Survival Kit. There are cuts of the Thief movie, recobbled is much more faithful to the artist than uh the Matthew Broderick version. Wristbreaking beauty in every cell.
The "dropped a piano on his head" line is so great because it's such a classic Chuck Jones cartoon gag, but actually doing that to a real human being would be unspeakably horrible.
It's a real shame they didn't mention Richard Williams, the animation director. They credit Robert Zemeckis for moving the camera but in the beginning he was told any scenes with animation had to be a static shot. When Zemeckis asked Williams about this, Williams told him "you were told that because the animators are lazy," he went on to tell Zemeckis to film it like he would any movie and they'll animate with it because their job was creating movement. So it should be Richard getting the credit. There's also a story Andreas Deja (animator on Roger Rabbit and the animator of Scar, Gaston abd more) tells about working on a shot he thought was static but after Roger was moving out of place slightly, he had an assistant take the background prints and track a wooden beam in the shot. They took the tracked paper (simple traced pencil line) held it to a window and sure enough, the line was jittering. It was a hand held camera he needed to animate with. He found a cheat that is used in programs today. He tracked a object in the scene, moving the paper so it always lined up with it. Punched the paper so the traced line stayed in one place. Then he'd animate on what in the end looked like an unstraightened stack of paper, but once lined up, the rabbit would jitter along with the camera.
We can also thank Richard Williams for Jessica Rabbit, and his never ending war on the female waistline. Seriously, he's a genius of an animator, but the man could not draw more than a 1cm wide waistline for women.
Zemeckis asked about this because he was planning not to, it was a lot of work for him too so its not wrong per say to say they both made this decision, he was told it was _possible_ by Williams, Zemeckis still had to direct and make a lot of other decisions around this. Static shot is easier for the director too you know
One of my favorite little incidental scene, Richard Williams talks about it in his famous book (The Animator's Survival Kit). Bob Hoskins was apparently amazing at acting at nothing. He was able to fully focus on the cartoon characters he couldn't see, while the other actors sort of seemed like they were looking past them. Hoskins could look Roger dead in the eyes, and the animators worked with that great. But there was one scene where he was talking to Roger backed into a wall. Hoskins was supposed to look down at him, but instead for some reason he looked straight ahead. A rare blunder. So what did the animators do? They had Roger back into the wall stretched out and on his toes to meet with Bob's eyes. It's so genius, that you wouldn't even notice it was there to fix a mistake.
I love that too. You wonder how many scenes did that in post. It was an Invisible Man movie completed later on. Let's not forget that Bob started seeing cartoon characters everywhere as a weird side effect of making this movie.
I thought it was a glaring oversight that Richard Williams (RIP) isn't mentioned in this entire video (I don't think so, anyway)... but somehow Ralph Bakshi IS? Williams definitely deserves credit for the animation side of this movie. Maybe a mention of other movie intros he worked on, or the sad story of the ill-fated Thief and the Cobbler / Arabian Knight... Also, I had successfully forgotten about Cool World. Thanks a lot guys, for bringing that back into my mind!
@@btr3k I don't think RedLetterMedia generally respects or cares about animation. This is like, the first time they ever talk about it, besides jokes with Looney Tunes or Simpsons, and when Rich talked about Danny Phantom, or when Mike said "taken for granite" from Rick & Morty. Anyways, they probably wouldn't know or care who Richard Williams was. Which is a shame, but that's the way it is.
@@uknownada The video's description reads "Rich and Jay discuss the classic 1988 film noir zany animated groundbreaking visual effects masterpiece Who Framed Roger Rabbit while somehow never once mentioning the name of animation legend Richard Williams."
"bump the lamp" is actually a term in traditional animation that basically means going above and beyond in ways that only a small part of the audience will actually notice. This movie is iconic
“No, not at any time. Only when it was funny.” It sets the basic rules of human/toon interaction. It explains why Roger doesn’t go 100 ft tall and takes the city hostage. It states the “anything for a joke” nature of the very medium of early cartoons. It’s a perfect line.
I wonder if this line is the origination of the concept of "toon force", or if the line is describing an existing writing rule known to animation pros. I mean, the writers for bugs bunny (for example) certainly KNEW he could do anything they wrote for him, but it would only make it to production if it was funny, but were they conscious of it as a pseudo law of physics?
That scene ruins the movie. The entire thing is obnoxious and mean spirited in a way classic WB cartoons never were, but that cold blooded murder was pointless edginess.
@@dennissullivan6700 Agreed...it makes me freaking sick every time I watch it. I genuinely loathe that scene, putrid and unnecessary. And you're right, for all the violence, the old school WB cartoons never had anything so awful.
At least Artax was somewhat complicit in his death. That was just torture porn but because it's animated we're not supposed to feel. Except for the animated parts of the movie we're supposed to feel for.🤦♂
It bugs me a bit that in this 50 minute discussion, Richard Williams’ name wasn’t mentioned once. Not only is he a massive part of this movie’s success and creative vision, he’s also a complete nutjob who would have made for excellent fodder for the boys. I guess chock it up to these being film buffs; not animation buffs. But still.
Judge Doom being the toon that killed Eddie's brother is not a conincidence. It's very baked into the plot. The money he stole from the robbery where he killed the brother, he used to buy up all the land in toon town, to facilitate the entire scam. There's a throughline for the entire thing in the story. It's insane how good the script is. I also love the little touch of the poster of pistol packing possum when RK Maroon dies. The shot of the gun matches the gun on the poster, and the eyes of the possum basically give away who he really is. It's a really great bit.
I understand and knew the connection when Rich said it, but I think I see what Rich meant. It had to be Doom that stole the money and killed anyone that followed him, but it didn't have to be Eddie Valiant that hunted Doom. That said, I think he is wrong. I think it is just tight story telling.
@@furtim1 Eddie had a reputation among toons, which is why Roger went to him in the first place. It's all connected as well as it can be in a movie, especially one like this where most of the time the plot and continuity take a backseat to the gags. Rich sometimes misses a lot of stuff in movies, just watch the "Joker" HitB. He missed the entire civil unrest subplot happening throughout the movie. Edit: I was reminded that it was Jay who missed the subplot in Joker. My Bad. The rest still stands.
Holy crap, I never noticed the poster before. The fact they hid Dooms identity in a "background" image blows my mind. They even mention in the end of the film "Gee, I wonder who he was?" and as an audience member, that never gets answered unless you pay close attention early on.
@@happytrails151 When Eddie tells Rodger the story of his brothers murder he mentions the robbery. When Eddie's friend from the LAPD let's him on the Acme murder scene he mentions that Doom bought the election to become Judge of Toontown.
The connection between the Valliant Brother's death and Judge Doom bothered me until I noticed the subtle hints laid out. The Eddie's brother was killed by a toon robbing a Bank (a toon that is never found) which the toon then used to start the Cloverfield company and ultimately use that power to destroy toon-town. Yes, it's a bit of a coincidence that Eddie is attached to the case (although not really since he is one of, if not the only, the most famous toon-detectives) but it's not a coincidence that the the toon who killed his brother turns out to be Doom.
Doom is also said to have "spread a bunch of samolians around Toon Town" in order to buy his way into having it under his jurisdiction. Obviously taken from that "zillion samolians" he swiped the night he killed Teddy Valiant.
Yeah I think it actually works great. you're wondering who this guy is, what bug he got up his butt about cartoons, and then it turns out.. nah he's just a murderer. just a guy who kills people and steals money and does shady deals to make more. After the saccharine treatment of toons as this subtly oppressed minority, it's good to see actually they can just be jerks sometimes.
More specifically, there is a line about how Doom became judge over toon town by another detective - Eddie: "How did that gargoyle get to be a judge?" Other detective: "Spread a couple simoleons around toon town a couple years back...bought the election" The bank robbery connection isn't a coincidence either, since Eddie worked with toons for years, which put him onto the bank robbery and why he later worked for Roger. It isn't a coincidence, Toons just have "only one place to go, Valiant and Valiant", according to Roger.
I think the best thing about that twist is that while Doom may seem unquestionably obvious as a bad guy, who would have ever guessed he was a toon in disguise? I certainly would not have.
Bob Hoskins is literally one of the best casting decisions of all time. Disney really wanted Harrison Ford or Tom Hanks and they turned it down. Meanwhile, Bob had a bit of cultural clout thanks to The Long Good Friday and an Oscar nod for Mona Lisa, so it was a textbook case of right place, right time.
Now imagine they replaced Bob Hoskins with Whoopi Goldberg. And Roger Rabbit with a T-rex. And now you are stuck with the knowledge that Theodore Rex is a remake of Who Framed Roger Rabbit. You are welcome.
Fantastic actor. Unfortunately for Bob, he also took the Super Mario Brothers gig. I can't imagine taking that role even if you WANTED to ruin your career.
The CGI Roger Rabbit test is a lot more exciting when you consider that it was made in 1998. To replicate the look of hand drawn animation they actually did animate him traditionally, and then modeled the CGI Roger frame by frame on top of the drawings so his character could still have the same squash and stretch that toons did. This process for this was so time intensive and cost prohibitive that the movie was never made. As cool as the technology was, I agree with Jay and Rich's sentiment that we do not need a sequel.
"Kids" movies from the 80s are VERY different from kids movies today. With scenes like Large Marge in Peewee's big adventure, or the tunnel scene in Willy Wonka, all the way down to entire movies like Labyrinth and probably most of all, Dark Crystal. Without much exaggeration, much of what's in those movies could qualify as horror today.
I saw one person say something like "if Roger Rabbit is a love letter to the golden age of animation, Chip and Dale Rescue Rangers is a death threat to the animation industry," and I think that's very accurate, not even in a bad way. Maybe in a little bit of a bad way, but only a little.
To me, the Chip N' Dale movie represents the worst aspects of modern pop culture and movie making - everything is meta, nothing is played straight, and actual humor and storytelling has been replaced with references that tricks audiences in to thinking they're watching something enjoyable because they go "OMG THIS IS A THING THAT I KNOW!!!!"
who framed roger rabbit pretty much reinvigorated the american animation industry - it triggered not only all the disney afternoon shows, but also stuff like nickelodeon shows, warner animation like tiny toon adventures and animaniacs, and also a renewed interest in the history of american animation, all the way back to the really old stuff. it also very likely inspired the next thirty years of children to become animators and artists who grew up to make all the more modern shows. it's a really impressive work technically, but it's had a serious cultural impact as well.
I was so glad to hear Jay elevate the genius of Warner Bros Looney Tunes above Disney. Bugs Bunny and Daffy and co made me laugh so many times as a child and adult and brought me so much joy. But even as a child, Disney cartoons made me want to puke with their sickly sweet sentiment. Disney was technically brilliant but utterly uninteresting as far as entertainment goes. It's easy to see the Loony Tunes inspiration behind early Spongebob and even The Simpsons and I'd bet the artists behind such works were avid Loony Tunes fans.
@@aarondavis8943 Same here - everyone felt this way, right? As a kid I didn’t really know anything about Humphrey Bogart, Peter Lorre, etc but when their caricatures appeared, I still knew it was creative and funny. It shows the timeless nature of these shorts. I’d put the black and white Fleischer cartoons in the same category.
This is the last movie (or one of) that my grandma, Lorraine Davis, worked on when she was in the animation dept. at Disney, so it warms my heart to hear the boys hold such a special movie to my personal childhood in high esteem. This movie had heart.
✨ Animators are truly the unsung heroes of Hollywood ✨ I often think of them when I see hand drawn animated movies - the skill and talent is amazing to me. Hats off to your grandma and all artists in the animation profession through the ages. 🌹
One of the greatest speeches in film history: "Of course not. You lack vision, but I see a place where people get on and off the freeway. On and off, off and on all day, all night. Soon, where Toontown once stood will be a string of gas stations, inexpensive motels, restaurants that serve rapidly prepared food. Tire salons, automobile dealerships and wonderful, wonderful billboards reaching as far as the eye can see. My God, it'll be beautiful."
The guys are right that the motion capture trilogy in the 2000s broke Zemeckis’ brain somehow. This is the same chap who made that dreadful The Witches remake.
Roger Rabbit is authentic. The cameos complimented the story and built the world. They weren’t treated as cameos for eye candy but as real living characters.
Who Framed Roger Rabbit is a stone cold masterpiece. And you guys are right, it's so much better viewing it as adult. I played my vhs copy over and over growing up. But I notice so much more now. One thing I spotted to make Judge Doom just a tad more off as a human was his duster. Every time he is on screen it's moving ever so subtly like there's a slight breeze. Even when he is indoors! Like Plinkett says. You may not have noticed it, but your brain did. Pure brilliance!
My favorite scene is when Eddie finally goes to Toontown, and it's got this huge serious dramatic build-up, with the super scary music in the tunnel, and he's clearly terrified, on edge, pouring sweat, psyching himself up for it... And then the red curtain opens into a Disney vault acid trip musical where the sun is shining, all the old cartoons are running around, every inanimate object is smiling and singing; the sudden shift in tone never fails to make me laugh.
You know, not a lot of people give the movie credit for that particular moment. To me, that scene was just as groundbreaking as Judy Garland stepping out into the colorful world of Oz from her sepia toned Kansas home.
That scene was a massive payoff for how hard it was built up throughout the movie. It's horrifying really, to go from a world where the tree you carve your initials in is just a tree to a world where that tree has a face, a name, a personality and probably a wife and a grove of saplings at home.
Richard Williams along with Ralph Bakshi are some of the unsung heroes of animation. It’s a shame that Williams passed away before what would have arguably been his magnum opus - Thief and the Cobbler - got released
I am glad that the thief and the cobbler has been mostly restored and released on RUclips for free so that everyone can see it. I love the final confrontation between the thief and cobbler fighting over the the last golden ball and how in the end the thief for the only time in the entire film...just gives us and lets it go cause its just not worth the trouble. its a great character beat and a wonderful conclusion to his arc as this thing just determined to steal everything he can, damned the consequences.
Ralph Bakshi's Wizards is an amazing visual film. Silhouetteing classic movie battle scenes with psychedelic backgrounds is phenomenal. Really suggest checking it out, even if it's a very strange and weird film
Eddie murphy was orginally asked to play the lead in this movie.. in an interview he says it was one of the only roles he regrets not taking. But i think this was one of the times it worked out for the best since this movie is perfect in so many ways as is.
The animation director Richard Williams was an amazing animator. He had a talent for making hand drawn animations that look like they're being filmed by a movie camera on a rig, not unlike how CG is handled now. The cartoons in this film are always captured at the correct perspective as the camera moves around the set.
Richard Williams' influence on the animation industry is really difficult to emphasise. Almost every single animation student of the past 15 years has had a copy of his "Animators Survival Kit" on their desk... it's like a bible for animation. I even know high end VFX artists working on Star Wars, Marvel, etc, who all started their journey from learning to animate a bouncing ball from his book.
@@jessehcreative Considering who made it, that's probably a no, LOL. (The guy who made the Recobbled Cut, Garrett Gilchrist, used to be friends with Mike and Jay and had a big falling out with them.)
What KILLS me to think about as an animator is not only are all the characters hand-animated. They're hand animated ON PHYSICALS CELS WITH INK AND PAINT. The sheer monumental level of effort that went into this movie on a technical level that we never even think about is enough to keep you awake at night.
Jay is such an attention to detail person, how did he miss on the desk that Eddie and his brother were acrobats, there is a photo of them as kids with their family. So him doing the backflips and such is explained through subtly
I think it's kinda part of his character, that he used to be a super fun and easy-going type until his brother was murdered? I thought the woman in the bar makes such a remark...
Unless you're talking about a different part, I believe Jay's issue wasn't that Eddie was jumping around, it was specifically when he jumps too high on the pogo stick and gets his head stuck in the lamp and cartoonishly gets electrocuted.
I get more baffled by Roger Rabbit as time goes on. It's impressive to a point that I feel its biggest failing is that there's a 100% lack of Tom & Jerry in it.
I read somewhere there was supposed to be a scene where Tom and Jerry were in attendance at Marvin Acme's funeral, but no one could get the licensing for their involvement
@@Grovester77 Popeye was supposed to be there, too. There are storyboards out there on the internet. Some studios would only let them use a certain amount of their characters for some reason.
Glad to see Richard Williams getting the recognition he deserves in the comment section. Genius animator, everybody should look at his work for his unreleased magnum-opas 'The Thief and the Cobbler'. Some of the most visually stunning 2D animation ever put to screen.
"Recobbled Cut" specifically. It omits the terrible musical numbers and bad dialogue added after it was picked up for distribution, and reinserts pencil tests of scenes Richard was never able to complete.
the segment of the space jam 2 rap battle genuinely filled me with rage. that movie is the real life equivalent of the anti-life equation i swear to god
Rest In Peace Richard Williams, the director of animation. I know a lot of people know of his book "The Animator's Survival Kit," but I'd highly recommend it even if you have no interest in actually animating. He covers the history of animation and the industry titans that he worked with as well as a "how-to" on, well, everything. Its worth a read if you're interested in understanding how animating is actually done. "Simple to learn, hard to master" type deal.
He was chosen for Roger Rabbit specifically because he was comfortable animating "on ones" (every frame), which made it easier to match his animation to the acting.
Isn't The Animator's Survival Kit a series of books with a total cost of over $1000? His work is amazing and I'm sure each volume is well worth the cost, since it's basically academic textbooks by a master. I just haven't been able to justify such costs yet personally. If only the internet had come sooner, he probably would have had a popular and lucrative RUclips channel where information/education is more democratized. But there are others like Jazza with popular 2D animation channels.
This is my favorite movie of all time, so I’ve got a few things to say… A nitpick about Rich’s nitpick: Doom being Teddy’s murderer AND the villain behind Cloverleaf isn’t a contrived coincidence. The movie states outright that Doom bought the election that made him a judge and it’s heavily implied he did so with the simoleons he stole in the heist the Brothers Valiant were trying to foil. It’s set up and paid off in the script. As Jay pointed out, the Ink and Paint Club is an allusion to a real life situation at an unfortunate point in our country’s history. Specifically, it is a reference to The Cotton Club in Harlem, and it existed more or less as he described. To my knowledge, all the recognizable voices in the movie are THE voices. Whoever was voicing those characters in official licensed works at the time, that’s who they got for Roger Rabbit. The dueling pianos scene was developed in part by Chuck Jones himself. However, he disavowed the film and talked endless trash on it until the day he died. This is because there are two recognized versions of Daffy Duck: there’s the original, wacky, off-the-wall Daffy created by Bob Clampett and there’s the self-important, indignant, “you’re dethpicable” Daffy popularized by Jones. Chuck wanted to use his version for the film but Zemeckis and the rest of the crew wanted Clampett’s Daffy, as they felt he was a better fit for the tone and period of the film. To appease Jones, they allegedly made two versions of the scene, one with each Daffy, promising to use whichever one played better. Of course, they then went ahead and used the Clampett version as they always planned and a lifelong grudge was born. As for Mickey being mean, I assume he was just smiling and playing along so Bugs wouldn’t big league him. We all no what an insufferable people pleaser that mouse is…
Never knew that about Jones. I agree with Zemeckis, original Daffy definitely fit the tone better, Chuck's Daffy only works when he gets to be the butt of the joke.
Even if judge's earlier run in wasn't related to the main plot, it's still not much of a stretch if murderous mastermind toons are a rarity. A detective of all people IS going to have run ins with criminals.
There are a couple of instances in the film where the looney tunes were not Mel Blanc due to his age, The woohoo's for Daffy in the ink and paint club scene was an animator. The second was Yosemite sam, Mel recorded the lines but the audio engineers couldn't quite get it to sound right, so they had Joe Alaskey fill in. Mel Blanc apparently didn't notice it wasn't him.
@@deadpanjelly2913 Yeah, there's a few exceptions. For example, some of Donald's lines in the piano duel are old audio of Clarence Nash, with the rest done by Tony Anselmo, the primary voice at the time. The general rule, though, was that all the AAA voice talent was on board.
Honestly it's one of the reasons Smash Bros. still has appeal. So many characters are third party that just imagining the red tape Nintendo had to go through just for something like Smash Ultimate to exist as all is mind boggling.
They originally had a much smaller budget for this film. Robert Zemeckis went back to the studio and got more money. They were originally going to go with no interactions, static camera work to make the animation easier but Zemeckis insisted on making his life harder. It paid off so hard for the studio!
When I was in like 7th grade Charles Fleischer had a website called monkey dog. It was an awful little geocities style thing. But there was his email address there. I told him I loved Roger rabbit and he sent a very nice response telling me about a planned sequel involving ww2 and nazis. Definitely a strange guy (why i like him) but I'll never forget that and how nice that was of him.
There was a real script with this plot called Roger Rabbit II: The Toon Platoon. Spielberg refused to sign onto it because how it cartoonishly depicted Nazis.
I hear that Jack Nicholson was actually one of the casting choices they considered for Valiant before they settled on Bob, which would *really* create some mind-bending confusion with Chinatown. I also heard that Tim Curry was one of the potentials they were looking at for casting as Judge Doom, but the producers thought that his performance would be too scary. In my mind there now lives a version of WFRR starring Jack Nicholson as the depressed alcoholic loser detective, and Tim Curry as the creepy maniacal cartoon villain in another IT-esque performance.
Interesring to note that Curry did end up getting the opportunity to deliver a solid performance as an animated villian with FernGully, only 4 years later.
@@tweeeeeex Lloyd is tall as well and this works nicely because he looms over Bob Hoskins. Whereas Curry was roughly Jack's height, probably an inch shorter. There wouldn't have been the same physicality.
That's exactly the thing, it could only come about in this little window between the advent of motion controlled cameras and digital movie making. Before motion control, you couldn't have this dynamic interplay between live action and animation. And ever since digital animation/CGI and non-linear editing took over, there are so many shortcuts available to film makers that there's no way they'd be able to justify sticking to traditional cel animation all the way through. Animators still do great work today and it's never easy, but that hardheaded stylistic purity is a huge part of what makes Roger Rabbit sing (The Merry-Go-Round Broke Down).
It's not a stretch when Eddie does all those circus acts in the third act because during the slow pan scene you see that him and his brother were part of a performing act. Eddie knew how to entertain and do acrobatic acts. Nitpick absolutely but I adore you guys for reviewing this film. It's special in the hearts of many of us and I love this film so much. Just wanted to contribute the logic in the film and I'm sure there's a hundred comments already pointing out what I already did.
Eddie and his brother were almost like toons themselves which is why they were so in tune with them and worked well with them. Part of the tragedy of Eddies brother's death was that he cut himself off from that part of himself.
In case anyone doesn't already know this, a "cattle call" is how producers refer to the process of casting featured extras and other bit parts open to public audition.
Talking about the voice actress for Betty Boop Mae Questel, it's so funny to me that many anime voice actresses are also of a similar age as she was during the filming of this movie and they're very active. The voice actress for Goku (Masako Nozawa) for example is 85 and she still screams like a lunatic into microphones voicing those scenes.
I watched Pixar's "Turning Red" a few weeks ago and when the character Mr. Gao showed up I said to myself "wait is that James Hong" before looking it up - I was floored to discover that not only is Hong still around (he's 93) but he's still working!
@@samworf6550 Yeah he's in "Everything Everywhere All at Once" that also came out this year which is a great film if you haven't seen it yet. He has some mild action scenes too lol...
It's too bad I hate how Goku sounds in Japanese. God bless Masako Nozawa but with her voice acting Goku he sounds like a crazy Japanese grandmother screaming while taking a hard shit. Not for me...
June Foray was still working until a few years before she died in 2017; her last performances are from when she was 96 years old, when she again performed Rocky the Flying Squirrel in a short. The year before she returned (alongside a 93 year old Alan Young) to voice her DuckTales characters in the Remastered version of the video game.
I graduated high school in 88 my dad and I were hanging out, kinda for the last time really, and we went to see this movie. My dad and I LOVE old 30's/40's Warner Bros. cartoons and we laughed like hell during this show. It was the last movie dad and I went to see, he is 82 now and suffering dementia, but he still loves WB cartoons from the Golden Age, and I will always remember seeing WFRR with him.. Thanks, Roger.
I will attest that Charles Fleischer is a crazy character - met him at a horror con years ago and the conversation just got weirder and more intense. Like that scene of him in the movie Zodiac, it was not too far removed from that. There were hundreds of people around me, but I felt like Jake Gyllenhaal trapped in a basement with him trying to find my way out of the situation. Kind of scary and intimidating. He wasnt a bad guy - just reallllllly weird.
I saw him perform standup at the Improv in LA, I was unfortunately in the front row and got roasted by him. It was really bizarre crowd work. He's intense for sure.
@@gsesquire3441 He definitely has an unusual reputation in Hollywood. I've seen a lot of comedians on podcasts reference him as being kind of an eccentric fixture at L.A. comedy clubs. Nothing malicious, just off putting.
This movie truly is an anomaly. One of those that seemingly avoided the scrutiny and interference of the studio, and some really talented people got to make something great.
This is actually where the term "bumping the lamp" came from: when an artist/animator/team goes above and beyond and delivers something ridiculously amazing.
I watched this movie so many times as a kid and Christopher Lloyd's character was always the most horrifying and terrifying! The eyes and his melting just so scary! I don't think I've seen it as an adult so I'll definitely need to watch it again.
One little thing I never picked up on when I was a kid, was that after the judge got dipped, they pointed out that it was a rubber mask. So you never actually see what the toon underneath looked like.
As a kid that pattycake bit always flew over my head. Watching that same scene and the eventual punchline of that joke as an adult was one of the funniest experiences that I had from watching a movie. Brilliant stuff.
One of my all time favorites. I love how its limitations has also made it hold up all these years. Side note as a kid I was like “why is doc brown evil now”
Hey um, this is a side note but, can someone explain to me why the poster for Space Jam is up on the wall between Rich and Jay, instead of Who Framed Roger Rabbit?
As a kid, for whatever reason, I never made the connection between Doc Brown and Doom. Christopher Lloyd was so good at differentiating himself in each role.
I feel like the Daffy and Donald on piano scene might have been inspired by Charlie Chaplin and Buster Keatons pianist and violinist scene in Limelight. Two comedy rivals trying to out do each other on stage
The Lego Movie is the only movie that's come close to being this good in terms of the novelty of mixing multiple properties together but still remembering to tell a really good story.
The Lego Movie and The Lego Batman Movie were pretty much the last IP crossover movies to actually be fun, like the whole crossover aspect didn’t even happen in Lego Batman until the last act
I think the Lego Movie's solid, but like the new Chip And Dale one, the message falls apart when you stop to think about who is delivering it. Disney's going to criticise nostalgic rose tinted glasses? And something connected to Lego is going to champion creativity when they've been making very deliberate model kits with not a brick out of place for decades?
@@Joe90h I think Phil Lord and Chris Miller made the message in the lego movie work. If anything, they got away with somewhat criticizing the product they were selling in a way I don't think Lego fully realized.
@@Joe90h as a peripheral Lego fan I assure you that they still make a lot of unique kits and ranges. Ninjago for example, which also had multi media tie in.
@@Scripture-Man Everything you think is a problem is why I love it. The dark, tense, menacing motif is what helps make this movie feel like there's more at stake which is hard in a movie with cartoon characters... it's a brilliant contrast that also works alongside the dark noir mood the film is also going for. This is not a "cartoon" movie it's a film noir first that is also about cartoons so it needed a score that while quite insane at times also brought the tension, suspense and have that be at the forefront.
Not only you guys did a great job on covering this gem of a movie, but the comment section is a goldmine of informations on its own. And that's one of the many reasons why I adore RLM. Oh and thanks to anyone sharing their knowledge about the movie 🙏🏻
That Chip and Dale movie was a production nightmare: 8 years, 3 directors, two different teams of writers and a last minute re-write to replace Pluto with Peter Pan as the villain. Remnenats are still left over from the original plot of creating the “ultimate toon” using different character’s signature features like hair, mouths and accessories which made no sense in the re-write’s plot about making bootleg movies. The plot about toons being kidnapped and the Rescue Rangers trying to uncover who’s behind it actually had promise, but the rest of the movie is just slapping the audience in the face with references, then explaining those references.
Just asking, whats special about creating the "ultimate toon", becuase that seems some shit storytelling in the vein of creating the perfect dinosaur in Jurassic World. What are you accomplishing with creating the ultimate toon, who wins with that? The bootleg part may be a rewrite, but then, is a better excuse of why someone is actually kidnapping cartoons that plays well with real life happenings (just like toontown being destroyed parallels to motorways and the car mass transit los angeles got in that era). The bad guy being pluto, completely understand the reference (but then, why also not donald) but damn if it isnt harder to explain in a good manner. And i say this as someone who hates that in the movie chip and dale are kids from the 80's, just to cram some modern school kid cartoon references, instead of actually making them be 1930's kids that then worked with pluto and donald on the disney short, maybe you can make then they went into theater after that and that didnt work, until their gig in Rescue Rangers. I dont even think it would have altered too much the bootleg plot at all, its clear as movie rules go toons do not grow if its not funny for them to grow (like peter pan), just like roger can get out of handcuffs, so it makes sense they stay the same age for nearly a 100 years.
@@SPRidley sounds like toon eugenics to me, makes sense to me if you want to make the evil toons akin to Nazis. Haven't seen the movie, so I'm just guessing.
@@SPRidley Creating the "ultimate toon" is mostly motivation for the villain to kidnap famous toons and excuse to shove as many references into the movie as possible along with some plausible deniability for recognizable characters. But even that is lazily done in the lab, with things like Jimmy Neutron's hair being taken from one of the first google images that comes up when you search Jimmy Neutron hair. I think the kidnapping plot works, but the villain and their motivation needs to match it.
Watching the behind-the-scenes footage, I can never tell if Charles Fleischer is legitimately insane... or if he's just fucking with everyone because he knows everyone else _thinks_ he's insane. Either way, his interviews for the movie are absolutely hilarious because he's so damn serious about it... while wearing a cartoon rabbit suit.
There's a bit on Norm MacDonald Live (his RUclips talk show) where they talk about Fleischer and Norm's sidekick Adam Eget thinks Fleischer's a bit crazy after dealing with him at his (Adam's) comedy club.
Who framed Roger rabbit is one of the most intelligent family films I've ever had the pleasure of watching. It's witty, moving, exciting, funny as hell, timeless, it can be rewatched many times, and it isn't so complicated that children can't follow the story or too simple that adults feel like they're watching a kiddies film. The sad part is that this kind of a movie would be impossible nowadays...
I like this movie and I seen it when I was little and it's my favorite movie from my childhood and it's a good movie but not funny about this movie and it's still a good movie but not funny about this movie and do you agree with me about what I say
I met Richard Williams a few years back at the Ottawa animation festival. He is a very interesting dude but he spoke during a resrospective of his showing off all of his old work. He did a ton of commercial work that was quality animation. Everyone was asked to not ask about his pet project, The Thief and the Cobbler because it was too depressing for him to even discuss. An animation legend for sure. Him and Glen Keane.
Don't forget that Andreas Deja also worked on Roger Rabbit! For anyone who doesn't know, Deja did a lot of famous characters from the Disney renaissance like Scar, Hercules, and Gaston.
I've never seen it confirmed for sure, but something about Christopher Lloyd's performance in hindsight makes him being a cartoon make so much sense. Like I feel like he deliberately acted physically like a cartoon. Watch his head turns and him turning on his heels all the time. He moves with ease-in and ease-out, a principle of animation that exaggerates movement and timing. Like in the bar, when someone kicks over the can of dip, you get the obvious hint seeing him back up away from it, but also when he looks up and sees eddie and roger escape, his head moves like a cartoon. His facial expressions are very sharp and fast and then held still for long stretches of time like a cartoon. I'd love to hear if that's what his technique was for the character, 'cause it just sticks out to me now after learning about animation.
He never blinks in the movie too. Cuz those aren't his real eyes. And he wears all black like old movie and tv villians used to do. And whenever he shows up wind blows his cape back.
Foreshadowing. I mean it's obvious in hindsight but on a first viewing it probably will surprise someone. I unfortunately had most of the movie spoiled back then from making of featurettes that aired on TV before it came out.
He absolutely acts like a cartoon character. Remember when he trips on the glass balls in the Acme factory? He runs in place on them for a few seconds before falling when any normal person would have fallen immediately. It is so obvious that Judge Doom (DOOM!!!) is a toon and that's one of the best things about rewatching the movie.
I always felt that Goofy and Donald were way more likeable because they're flawed, and Mickey's sanitized corporate logo status kept writers from really doing anything interesting with him at all. My generation knows him as the mindlessly smiling Disney World logo, and the younger generation think of him as a CGI toddler character.
"Mickey Mouse Shorts" fixes the blandness in ways that I'm surprised they were allowed to do, but it should not have taken 90 years to make him entertaining.
You're right; Mickey actually was sanitized. At some point (this was when Walt Disney was still alive) he became the corporate logo and they restricted what Mickey was allowed to do. All the "bad" stuff he used to be able to do was reassigned to Donald. The same thing happened to Popeye. He became popular with children so he was toned down, and they introduced Popeye's dad to do all the stuff Popeye used to do that would be a bad influence on kids. (Popeye could still fight, though. They didn't go too nuts toning him down.)
In Europe, Mickey is nothing but a logo, but Donald Duck is huge. Like really huge, the Donald Duck comic books released weekly for almost 60 years and Carl Barks and Don Rosa are legends here.
Mickey Mouse was always my favourite, because I don't really like stupid characters as a rule (and while Goofy is likable, he is pretty stupid), and Donald's temper put me off. Thus said, the Mickey I had most contact with as a child was the version from the early shorts (in which Mickey still had his own misadventures instead of always being forced to pay the straight man to the other two) and the Lustige Taschenbücher, in which Mickey was a smart detective (and I LIKE smart characters as a general rule). I was very glad though that in the more recent cartoons Mickey has been allowed to have more misadventures again. And naturally House of Mouse did a great job playing with Mickey's "perfect guy" image.
The french dub can be seen as one step more "meta", the voice actor voicing Roger is the usual french voice actor for Michael J. Fox. So we have a loony Marty against an evil Doc Brown in another Zemeckis movie - sort of.
When I first saw Roger Rabbit in the theater, a young girl started crying so much when Judge Doom dipped the shoe in The Dip, that her mother had to take her from the theater and they never came back. I always think about that when watching this movie and feel sorry for her. It was a strange movie to try to guess if you could bring your kids or not.
Honey I shrunk the kids was the first movie I saw in the theater as a child and I cried so much when that damn Scorpion killed the Ant, but my mom was mindful enough to tell me to shut the hell up because I disturb the other viewers. So I just cried in silence like a good citizen. In retrospect it seems like that wasn't the best parenting, haha. Ah childhood, I miss you.
The funny thing is that Disney was convinced this would be the movie that would bring a new era of animation. Then The Little Mermaid came the following year and blew Roger out of the water.
The prequel that almost happened, "Roger Rabbit: The Toon Platoon", would have had Roger going from his adopted human home to find his parents in LA. He meets a wannabe actor and Roger accidentally steals the role the guy was auditioning for. Then WW2 happens, both these characters and other toons are drafted, and the army send off an entire Toon platoon to fight Germany since Toons are indestructible. But once the toons get there, they can't fight anyone. They just try to entertain. The climax has Roger, guy, and the other toons storm a base to rescue Jessica who was kidnapped from America and forced to make radio broadcasts for Germany Steven Speilberg changed his opinion on WW2 after Schindler's List, so he wouldn't sign off on it. Also the recent merger of WB and Hanna Barbera made things really tricky. Another version of this movie could have gotten made but it was between making another Roger Rabbit movie and the cinematic classic Pearl Harbor. Also Roger's dad would have been Bugs Bunny but who seriously fucking cares
the original screen play if it was as explained here by you would have actually been fkn amazing. i can say without a doubt i would have owned the sequel and would have wore out the vhs just like i did the original. lol.
@@SmEiF- I condensed it as much as I could. This specific script most definitely would have been retooled if they went through with another RR movie. The entire script of this version IS in fact online for all to read and is very very easy to find
My recollection from a Walt Disney biography is that Mickey Mouse started out with a strong mischievous personality. The character became the popular face of Walt Disney animation, and so Walt felt the need to make the character a good role model for children. This meant essentially removing that old personality, and all future Mickey Mouse cartoons became about things happening to Mickey rather than him doing things actively. That mischievous personality was given to Donald Duck, who coupled it with extreme narcissism.
Yeah when a character becomes more of a "brand" than a character they tend to lose a lot of personality. The same kind of applies to Mario, we'll have to see how the movie of that works but it makes him seem pretty bland.
I think Bugs is infinitely more charming and entertaining than Mickey. I could make a short essay but bugs does something mickey used to do or would do where something stupid happens than Bugs looks at the camera with a wry/annoyed look and wiggles his nose like, 'you believe this?' Meanwhile modern boring Mickey would just cross his arms and go, 'aw shucks...' like he's some geriatric old man.
That mischievous personality is in full force if you check out the old Mickey comics from like the 30s and 40s. He brandishes guns, gets in fights, flirts with Minnie, etc.
I helped interview Charles Fleischer at a comic convention in CT. I was the cameraman for my Buddy's coverage of the con and we met Charles and attempted to do an interview with him. It was planned and not meant as a gotcha, we had done research and wanted to ask him questions about Roger Rabbit specifically. The interview was going well for a few minutes and he was very well spoken and friendly. Suddenly Fleischer's whole demeanor changed and he turned and looked straight through the camera and into my eyes. "I know who you are...Stop it. STOP IT." Then he just clams up and points at us, backing away and leaving. Never gonna forget that, it was creepy.
@@Scripture-Man i chalked it up to being sleep deprived, or medicated and on a busy schedule...until I saw this video and heard that he may be more than a bit eccentric
The shoe part was brilliant, not just the execution of the scene, but also conceptually: you've got these cartoony anthropomorphized shoes that naturally exist as a pair, and you have your antagonist just murder one of them in a display of evil villainy. It's cartoony, but the implications are impactful and chilling. It was such a treat to see this on re:View, I've been hoping to see this come up for as long as I've watched RLM. This movie really stuck with me, even though I only saw it a couple times. I always want to describe this movie and recommend it, but there's no way to express to the average content consumer in 2022 how special and great this movie really is.
Who Framed Roger Rabbit gave us the ground-breaking technology for merging animation and live-action, that allows us now to see the iconic Rich Evans come to life in these RLM videos
It's amazing how much this rendition of Rich Evans blurs the line between his current reality as a tragic and real alcoholic, and his unforgettable origins as a buffoonish cartoon character. The animation department deserves an Annie.
I watched half of this while folding laundry and they convinced me to turn the video off and watch the entire movie just as a refresher because they made it sound so good all over again.
9:20 that was actually a Richard Williams call. Richard Williams was the animation director and was notorious for being one of the most overcomplicated animators who always wanted to push his work as far as possible. Honestly, this movie probably couldn't have been made to the degree of fine tuning that it was if they didnt have Richard Williams. Look up his portfolio. Fantastic animator.
this is why we shouldn't just worship actors and directors. movie making is a team exercise and we neglect great artisans because of entertainment elite vanity there are the crafty amongst us, empower them directly maybe we should crowdfund Rich's (and science mans) investigation into chip'n'dale's mirth
@@man.inblack Because most people dont know how animation works, it is very hard for people who arent in the field to know who to reward for what. Most people know actors and directors so it's easy to reward them, but most people dont know what a layout artist, in-betweener, color key artist, vis dev director, supervising animator, effects animator, crowd animator, lighter, rigger, modeler, or texture artist are. I find it funny when the oscars will award some live action movie for special effects, but won't award an animated movie for special effects because... The entire thing is special effects haha. That's why the Annie award ceremony is fun to watch because it is run by animators and rewards specific fields of animation that would never make it into the oscars
@@bloopboop9320 I never knew what showrunners were till the cons dragged them into the limelight. BTS videos are quite popular and many are aware of the roles of the entertainment industry more than any other. It’s simpler to herd people with the pretty faces and creative management. Most people don’t know what directors do but they still applaud their work
I was told that "swing the lamp" became a winged word among animators. It is supposed to mean that an animator always should try to overshoot the boundaries of animation.
Yes, there were a number of hard rules that animators held to in having interactions between animated and live action characters. Fixed camera, flat lighting, characters didn't move around each other, characters didn't touch each other, the angle of the lighting never changed, etc. The creators of Who Framed Roger Rabbit made a point of breaking every one of those rules just so they could push the art as far as possible.
This movie is slightly my villain origin story because I tried to show it to a group of friends years back and the only thing they had to say when they looked up from their phones halfway through was "so does this movie actually have a story or is it just the live action animation thing"
Actually, over the last decade, we've had a bunch of really excellent Mickey Mouse animated shorts by Paul Rudish. They're actually pretty good, and some of them are actually really funny! It honestly warms my heart a little that some kids today will grow up remembering quality mickey cartoons from their childhood.
I would assume that one of the larger groups of people today with positive childhood memories of Mickey formed those memories while playing video games. Kingdom Hearts and Epic Mickey have sold tens of millions of copies
I'm half way through and worried they won't mention Richard "Thief and the Cobbler" Williams. That guy's animation direction is so much of why this film works.
I'm a professional 2D animator and I can't express enough how mind-blowingly impressive the animation in this movie is. Richard Williams is an absolute genius and for good reason his animation course was used as the blueprint for my own education in art school. Everyone should check out The Animator's Survival Kit, even if you're not thinking about actually animating anything. It's a fascinating read about the artform and you really get a sense of what a brilliant man he was. RIP
Agreed. Animators survival kit is incredible. If you're just getting started though it can be intimidating. Also, Preston Blair's book is great for idiots like me.
My head cannon on why Mickey Mouse is more characteristically "cartoony" in this movie is because much like Disney he's a legit psychopath who will perform whatever role he needs to on camera to make money, but in real life he's soulless and inflicts suffering wherever he can.
Yeah, it was established with baby Herman in the first scene that a toon's real personality could be completely different from his performance while working.
there are actually newer Mickey cartoons that are great because they realize that any character who has to spend his entire life never being selfish or even mildly inconveniencing anyone would be a neurotic ball of anxiety issues, and it's hilarious
the new shorts (produced under Paul Rushdie) of Mickey and friends, understands that and how a toony characters should be written. The characters are both hilarious and at the same time relatable. The characters are written in a way their goals and feelings are serious to them and still they are "toony" and they also knows that. Mickey is a loveable friend and also a wreck, a ball of stress, on the verge of collapsing and at time he knows and try to change :) Goofy is totally random, over the top, and because he knows that, he's thankful for his friends. Donald knows it can explode like a volcano at any minute and so on. It also succeeds in giving to Minnie a distinct personality from Mickey...
I agree! I adore the newer Mickey Mouse cartoons, it really gives so much life and personality into all the characters, life that’s been sorely needed as of recent.
Holy shit I never realized Charles Fleisher was Bob Vaughn in Zodiac! That's easily the creepiest scene in the whole movie. Zodiac doesn't get enough love. It's one of my favorite movies of all time. You guys should to a Re:Review of it someday. Great video! Who Framed Roger Rabbit? still totally holds up.
That scene never fails to make me feel tense and on edge. The scene with the double stabbing on the lake side..... Still one of my favourite movies! I never realised that either.
I always thought the Judge Doom twist was set-up well. The movie hints at it throughout the movie but it's done in a subtle manner. 1 - It was established by Eddy that the Evil Toon got away with a shitton of money from the bank heist that got Eddy's brother killed. 2 - One of the cops mentions that Judge Doom bought the election by coming in out of nowhere and spending a ton of money 3 - note his reaction when he's dealing with "dip". The gloves, backing away from it like it was acid, etc... and so on.
There's also the theory that Judge Doom's true identity was the character Pistol Packin' Possum, who is the only character with a poster on RK Maroon's wall that does not make an official appearance in the movie. The character sports the same red eyes as Doom as well as the same gun. Watch the first scene in Maroon's office. The character's gun is always pointed at Maroon in that scene, foreshadowing his imminent demise later in the film.
haven't finished the vid, not sure if this is mentioned, but there's also the fact his cape is always flowing even without wind and how he wears gloves and backs away from the toon killing barrel when it spills.
@@Awesoman Ooh that makes a lot of sense. In the murder scene, Eddie first notices the gun in the reflection of PPP's poster, exactly layered on top of PPP's gun, and when Maroon is being shot, PPP in the poster has his gun to Maroon's head.
@@manjackson2772 Exactly. Definitely not a coincidence. Considering that neither Zemeckis nor anyone else involved with the movie has ever commented on PPP, it's possible that the character isn't really Doom's true form and only served as symbolic foreshadowing towards Maroon's demise. But there is plenty of room for speculation. I believe Zemeckis or someone involved in the film have joked that in an earlier draft, Doom was actually the hunter that shot Bambi's mother but decided that might be a little too mean-spirited. And I reject the Marvel graphic novel sequel where Doom's real identity as "Baron Von Rotten" as canon. Especially since no one directly involved in that film worked on that book.
The gloves bit was great. I remember thinking as a kid that of course he'd want to wear gloves; if it can dissolve immortal toons then a human still probably wouldn't want it on their hands. But then when the twist happened I went "Oh! The gloves!"
It was just solid gold of a movie. The effort put in, the story, the acting and getting all those studio people to sign off on it. Truly a labor of love! Ready Player One and the newer Space Jam 2 are just a product. Even the book was just made to get cash and is devoid of soul. A complete lack of depth and just full on spectacle. Years later kids will have nostalgia for it because growing up with it but nobody will speak well of it beyond that. Who Framed Roger Rabbit is still talked about and seen as the gold standard for this type of film. It lasts.
Much like Big Bang Theory, I've taken to calling Ready Player One "Nerd Black Face". It's all pandering, all posing, all fake....to an offensive degree.
21:45 That wasn't a coincidence, it was laid out by two earlier scenes: The Theater scene where Eddie explains his brother's death to roger, and Doom's introduction scene. Eddie in the theater scene tells roger they were investigating a bank robbery for a million "simoleans"(slang for dollars) when the robber killed his brother. In the earlier scene of doom, Eddie asks the Lt. how Doom was able to be a judge, the Lt. tells him "spread a bunch of simoleans around ToonTown and bought the election." Doom's bank robbery funded everything he did afterward.
I appreciate the extra effort of hand-drawing Rich Evans into this episode. So much better than the CGI version from the Star Trek: Picard reviews.
You guys will say anything about this poor man
He's still got those dead eyes though. They creep me out
I didn't really buy it as the shots were all static and he wasn't interacting much with any real world objects.
Not interacting with the real world is just part of Rich Evans's tragic character.
@@somethingsomething8511 Black, like a dolls eyes.
I adore the fact that that author of “Who Censored Roger Rabbit” loved the movie so much that he retconned his own book as a bad dream.
I think it was more due to the fact that the movie was a tremendous hit and his book wasn't, so he went where the money was.
I looked up who fucked Roger rabbit and just got porn, idk what I exp xted
@@johnsensebe3153 its probably both
One of most cherished items is a signed book by him my brother bought me.
The book is definitely worth a read though. I think I hated every character in the book besides Eddie by the end, and I don't mean that in a bad way at all.
A true classic. I hope Rich will not someday laugh himself to death, like one of the weasels.
If he provides the footage of him trying to keep his angelic ghost from flying away, we will animate it
Mike would be doing his Palpatine laugh
@@BRBMrSoul Bold to asume Mike still has a soul
Rich's laugh is the stuff of angels.
Wish i could like this comment more than once
In regards to 'the dip': during the early animation years (30s-50s), as a cost saving measure, Disney, Warner Bros. and their contemporaries used to reuse the animation cels from finished productions by scraping off the artwork and giving them 'the dip' to clean off the cel so it could be used for a new production (since every frame of animation required its own cel). It isn't just some crazy idea made for the film, its based on a niche part of animation history!
oh maaan. imagine wiping the classic cels like that.. all just to save on celluloid. they had no idea how much those were gonna sell for later.
@RedLetterMedia Pin this comment already!
That’s amazing!
@@KairuHakubi Yeah but they needed the money then, they not going to wait 50+ years lol
@@sparda9060 people live a long time, gotta plan for the future.
Kudos to them mentioning Jessica Rabbit and "Rack Focus" in the same sentence without making the obvious joke.
Huh?...
OOOOOH! Nice.
Fantastic.
I dont get it..
@@alfias7316 godbless you
@@alfias7316
>profile pic
Everything checks out
Roger Rabbit's animation director Richard Williams (best known for his insane unfinished film The Thief and the Cobbler, may he rest in peace , etc. etc.) was probably the one responsible for the attention to detail with the animation. He was a notorious perfectionist and would take forever to finish stuff if left to his own devices. The scene in the prohibition room with the lamp actually inspired the term "bumping the lamp" which is used in animation and film to mean "going above and beyond expectations/requirements".
Animation is concentration.
Strongly appreciate this comment. Also aspiring animators should read his book "The Animators Survival Kit"
THE BALL IS LIFE. THE BALL IS EVERYTHING. YOU WILL FUCKING LOVE THAT BOUNCING FUCKING BALL.
Yes! He wrote a/the book on animation, The Animator's Survival Kit. There are cuts of the Thief movie, recobbled is much more faithful to the artist than uh the Matthew Broderick version. Wristbreaking beauty in every cell.
For the animation Zemeckis told Williams he wanted the look of Disney with the humour of Warner Bros, or something like that
The "dropped a piano on his head" line is so great because it's such a classic Chuck Jones cartoon gag, but actually doing that to a real human being would be unspeakably horrible.
I won't even subject you to the horrors of our 3 Stooges ward
Agree about that line. They sure got a whole lot right in the movie from the writing to the execution.
It's a real shame they didn't mention Richard Williams, the animation director. They credit Robert Zemeckis for moving the camera but in the beginning he was told any scenes with animation had to be a static shot. When Zemeckis asked Williams about this, Williams told him "you were told that because the animators are lazy," he went on to tell Zemeckis to film it like he would any movie and they'll animate with it because their job was creating movement. So it should be Richard getting the credit. There's also a story Andreas Deja (animator on Roger Rabbit and the animator of Scar, Gaston abd more) tells about working on a shot he thought was static but after Roger was moving out of place slightly, he had an assistant take the background prints and track a wooden beam in the shot. They took the tracked paper (simple traced pencil line) held it to a window and sure enough, the line was jittering. It was a hand held camera he needed to animate with. He found a cheat that is used in programs today. He tracked a object in the scene, moving the paper so it always lined up with it. Punched the paper so the traced line stayed in one place. Then he'd animate on what in the end looked like an unstraightened stack of paper, but once lined up, the rabbit would jitter along with the camera.
That’s a amazing solution; real genius move by the artists
Thank you.
We can also thank Richard Williams for Jessica Rabbit, and his never ending war on the female waistline.
Seriously, he's a genius of an animator, but the man could not draw more than a 1cm wide waistline for women.
Zemeckis asked about this because he was planning not to, it was a lot of work for him too so its not wrong per say to say they both made this decision, he was told it was _possible_ by Williams, Zemeckis still had to direct and make a lot of other decisions around this. Static shot is easier for the director too you know
Bruh Jessica Rabbit is a cartoon character married to a rabbit. Its not meant to look realistic at all@@Chernobog34
One of my favorite little incidental scene, Richard Williams talks about it in his famous book (The Animator's Survival Kit). Bob Hoskins was apparently amazing at acting at nothing. He was able to fully focus on the cartoon characters he couldn't see, while the other actors sort of seemed like they were looking past them. Hoskins could look Roger dead in the eyes, and the animators worked with that great.
But there was one scene where he was talking to Roger backed into a wall. Hoskins was supposed to look down at him, but instead for some reason he looked straight ahead. A rare blunder. So what did the animators do? They had Roger back into the wall stretched out and on his toes to meet with Bob's eyes. It's so genius, that you wouldn't even notice it was there to fix a mistake.
I love that too. You wonder how many scenes did that in post. It was an Invisible Man movie completed later on. Let's not forget that Bob started seeing cartoon characters everywhere as a weird side effect of making this movie.
I thought it was a glaring oversight that Richard Williams (RIP) isn't mentioned in this entire video (I don't think so, anyway)... but somehow Ralph Bakshi IS? Williams definitely deserves credit for the animation side of this movie. Maybe a mention of other movie intros he worked on, or the sad story of the ill-fated Thief and the Cobbler / Arabian Knight...
Also, I had successfully forgotten about Cool World. Thanks a lot guys, for bringing that back into my mind!
@@btr3k I don't think RedLetterMedia generally respects or cares about animation. This is like, the first time they ever talk about it, besides jokes with Looney Tunes or Simpsons, and when Rich talked about Danny Phantom, or when Mike said "taken for granite" from Rick & Morty.
Anyways, they probably wouldn't know or care who Richard Williams was. Which is a shame, but that's the way it is.
Beautiful.
Made me smile
@@uknownada The video's description reads "Rich and Jay discuss the classic 1988 film noir zany animated groundbreaking visual effects masterpiece Who Framed Roger Rabbit while somehow never once mentioning the name of animation legend Richard Williams."
"bump the lamp" is actually a term in traditional animation that basically means going above and beyond in ways that only a small part of the audience will actually notice.
This movie is iconic
“No, not at any time. Only when it was funny.” It sets the basic rules of human/toon interaction. It explains why Roger doesn’t go 100 ft tall and takes the city hostage. It states the “anything for a joke” nature of the very medium of early cartoons. It’s a perfect line.
Agreed!
I wonder if this line is the origination of the concept of "toon force", or if the line is describing an existing writing rule known to animation pros. I mean, the writers for bugs bunny (for example) certainly KNEW he could do anything they wrote for him, but it would only make it to production if it was funny, but were they conscious of it as a pseudo law of physics?
It explains why Judge Doom was so powerful, he found the idea of murder and mayhem HILARIOUS.
R.I.P. to the most adorable cartoon shoe in cinema history 😢
he was just trying to be friendly :(
That scene ruins the movie. The entire thing is obnoxious and mean spirited in a way classic WB cartoons never were, but that cold blooded murder was pointless edginess.
@@dennissullivan6700 Agreed...it makes me freaking sick every time I watch it. I genuinely loathe that scene, putrid and unnecessary. And you're right, for all the violence, the old school WB cartoons never had anything so awful.
Hated that scene as a kid and always skipped it.
At least Artax was somewhat complicit in his death. That was just torture porn but because it's animated we're not supposed to feel. Except for the animated parts of the movie we're supposed to feel for.🤦♂
It bugs me a bit that in this 50 minute discussion, Richard Williams’ name wasn’t mentioned once. Not only is he a massive part of this movie’s success and creative vision, he’s also a complete nutjob who would have made for excellent fodder for the boys. I guess chock it up to these being film buffs; not animation buffs. But still.
Just to be that person, it's "chalk" it up. But I totally agree, Richard Williams really was an indispensable part of that project
@@shmunkyman33 Well let me be that person, I graciously accept your correction and commit to doing better in the future
@@dillflynn No worries man, if you've only ever heard it out loud then it makes perfect sense to spell it that way :)
Film buffs to a T. They still think cartoons are for kids. Angel Cop laughs in bloody bullets.
well i mean they acknowledge that in the description
This film not only saved disney from bankruptcy and the animation department from being shut down, but revitalized American animation in general.
And it had a sexy cartoon lady with huge boobs
Judge Doom being the toon that killed Eddie's brother is not a conincidence. It's very baked into the plot. The money he stole from the robbery where he killed the brother, he used to buy up all the land in toon town, to facilitate the entire scam. There's a throughline for the entire thing in the story. It's insane how good the script is.
I also love the little touch of the poster of pistol packing possum when RK Maroon dies. The shot of the gun matches the gun on the poster, and the eyes of the possum basically give away who he really is. It's a really great bit.
I understand and knew the connection when Rich said it, but I think I see what Rich meant. It had to be Doom that stole the money and killed anyone that followed him, but it didn't have to be Eddie Valiant that hunted Doom. That said, I think he is wrong. I think it is just tight story telling.
Was the money angle from the robbery mentioned in the movie or was that in the later comics?
@@furtim1
Eddie had a reputation among toons, which is why Roger went to him in the first place.
It's all connected as well as it can be in a movie, especially one like this where most of the time the plot and continuity take a backseat to the gags. Rich sometimes misses a lot of stuff in movies, just watch the "Joker" HitB. He missed the entire civil unrest subplot happening throughout the movie.
Edit: I was reminded that it was Jay who missed the subplot in Joker. My Bad. The rest still stands.
Holy crap, I never noticed the poster before. The fact they hid Dooms identity in a "background" image blows my mind. They even mention in the end of the film "Gee, I wonder who he was?" and as an audience member, that never gets answered unless you pay close attention early on.
@@happytrails151 When Eddie tells Rodger the story of his brothers murder he mentions the robbery. When Eddie's friend from the LAPD let's him on the Acme murder scene he mentions that Doom bought the election to become Judge of Toontown.
The connection between the Valliant Brother's death and Judge Doom bothered me until I noticed the subtle hints laid out. The Eddie's brother was killed by a toon robbing a Bank (a toon that is never found) which the toon then used to start the Cloverfield company and ultimately use that power to destroy toon-town. Yes, it's a bit of a coincidence that Eddie is attached to the case (although not really since he is one of, if not the only, the most famous toon-detectives) but it's not a coincidence that the the toon who killed his brother turns out to be Doom.
Doom is also said to have "spread a bunch of samolians around Toon Town" in order to buy his way into having it under his jurisdiction. Obviously taken from that "zillion samolians" he swiped the night he killed Teddy Valiant.
I also love how judge doom is cartoonishly evil its so clever to make his character that way
Yeah I think it actually works great. you're wondering who this guy is, what bug he got up his butt about cartoons, and then it turns out.. nah he's just a murderer. just a guy who kills people and steals money and does shady deals to make more. After the saccharine treatment of toons as this subtly oppressed minority, it's good to see actually they can just be jerks sometimes.
More specifically, there is a line about how Doom became judge over toon town by another detective -
Eddie: "How did that gargoyle get to be a judge?"
Other detective: "Spread a couple simoleons around toon town a couple years back...bought the election"
The bank robbery connection isn't a coincidence either, since Eddie worked with toons for years, which put him onto the bank robbery and why he later worked for Roger. It isn't a coincidence, Toons just have "only one place to go, Valiant and Valiant", according to Roger.
"Remember me Eddy?!!!!"
Who Framed Roger Rabbit has a better story and character development than 95% of big Hollywood releases over the past 5 years.
*25 years
I think the best thing about that twist is that while Doom may seem unquestionably obvious as a bad guy, who would have ever guessed he was a toon in disguise? I certainly would not have.
@@motherplayer
I also think it’s amazing that it was revealed many years later that Doom’s true identity is alluded to in Maroon’s office.
"WHEN I KILLED YOUR BROTHER??!!"
You'll never forget the first time you see that.
Plus is there anything more evil than destroying America's public transportation infrastructure in favor of endless cars?
Boy that Batman review must be amazing if they’re making us wait this long!
Bob Hoskins is literally one of the best casting decisions of all time. Disney really wanted Harrison Ford or Tom Hanks and they turned it down. Meanwhile, Bob had a bit of cultural clout thanks to The Long Good Friday and an Oscar nod for Mona Lisa, so it was a textbook case of right place, right time.
Now imagine they replaced Bob Hoskins with Whoopi Goldberg.
And Roger Rabbit with a T-rex.
And now you are stuck with the knowledge that Theodore Rex is a remake of Who Framed Roger Rabbit.
You are welcome.
had he been younger, he would have been a great wolverine.
Fantastic actor. Unfortunately for Bob, he also took the Super Mario Brothers gig. I can't imagine taking that role even if you WANTED to ruin your career.
@@cullen4847 alcohol fam
True, but now I really would have loved to see Harrison Ford in that role.
The CGI Roger Rabbit test is a lot more exciting when you consider that it was made in 1998. To replicate the look of hand drawn animation they actually did animate him traditionally, and then modeled the CGI Roger frame by frame on top of the drawings so his character could still have the same squash and stretch that toons did. This process for this was so time intensive and cost prohibitive that the movie was never made. As cool as the technology was, I agree with Jay and Rich's sentiment that we do not need a sequel.
Oh wow, that is pretty impressive for 98.
1989
As a kid, that entire climactic sequence with Christopher Lloyd was absolutely terrifying
Pure horror. Oh the nightmares I had from that...
100%!!
"Kids" movies from the 80s are VERY different from kids movies today. With scenes like Large Marge in Peewee's big adventure, or the tunnel scene in Willy Wonka, all the way down to entire movies like Labyrinth and probably most of all, Dark Crystal. Without much exaggeration, much of what's in those movies could qualify as horror today.
I saw one person say something like "if Roger Rabbit is a love letter to the golden age of animation, Chip and Dale Rescue Rangers is a death threat to the animation industry," and I think that's very accurate, not even in a bad way.
Maybe in a little bit of a bad way, but only a little.
Ah, I see you're a watcher of TeamFourStar as well
And Ready Player One was a dick pic sent to every IP available
@@Malygosblues Was it them? I heard it second-hand.
@@Malygosblues link to it?
To me, the Chip N' Dale movie represents the worst aspects of modern pop culture and movie making - everything is meta, nothing is played straight, and actual humor and storytelling has been replaced with references that tricks audiences in to thinking they're watching something enjoyable because they go "OMG THIS IS A THING THAT I KNOW!!!!"
who framed roger rabbit pretty much reinvigorated the american animation industry - it triggered not only all the disney afternoon shows, but also stuff like nickelodeon shows, warner animation like tiny toon adventures and animaniacs, and also a renewed interest in the history of american animation, all the way back to the really old stuff. it also very likely inspired the next thirty years of children to become animators and artists who grew up to make all the more modern shows. it's a really impressive work technically, but it's had a serious cultural impact as well.
Let's also not forget that Disneyland built an entire new section "Toontown" which was inspired by the movie - that's a pretty big pull.
Just look at how stiff 80's cartoons were compared to 90's cartoons.
I was so glad to hear Jay elevate the genius of Warner Bros Looney Tunes above Disney. Bugs Bunny and Daffy and co made me laugh so many times as a child and adult and brought me so much joy. But even as a child, Disney cartoons made me want to puke with their sickly sweet sentiment. Disney was technically brilliant but utterly uninteresting as far as entertainment goes. It's easy to see the Loony Tunes inspiration behind early Spongebob and even The Simpsons and I'd bet the artists behind such works were avid Loony Tunes fans.
@@aarondavis8943 Same here - everyone felt this way, right? As a kid I didn’t really know anything about Humphrey Bogart, Peter Lorre, etc but when their caricatures appeared, I still knew it was creative and funny. It shows the timeless nature of these shorts. I’d put the black and white Fleischer cartoons in the same category.
Donald Duck is the only good thing Disney made. And the Scroodge McDuck comics by Carl.Barks and Don Rosa.
You're absolutely right, this movie makes me miss "movie magic"
This is the last movie (or one of) that my grandma, Lorraine Davis, worked on when she was in the animation dept. at Disney, so it warms my heart to hear the boys hold such a special movie to my personal childhood in high esteem. This movie had heart.
Wow, any behind the scenes deets you could share? 🥺
✨ Animators are truly the unsung heroes of Hollywood ✨
I often think of them when I see hand drawn animated movies - the skill and talent is amazing to me.
Hats off to your grandma and all artists in the animation profession through the ages. 🌹
That's cool
Seriously? That is so neat
That's awesome. Respect.
One of the greatest speeches in film history:
"Of course not. You lack vision, but I see a place where people get on and off the freeway. On and off, off and on all day, all night. Soon, where Toontown once stood will be a string of gas stations, inexpensive motels, restaurants that serve rapidly prepared food. Tire salons, automobile dealerships and wonderful, wonderful billboards reaching as far as the eye can see. My God, it'll be beautiful."
Just watched this with my 9yo, a week before this video was released. Still holds up so well. A bloody masterpiece.
The guys are right that the motion capture trilogy in the 2000s broke Zemeckis’ brain somehow. This is the same chap who made that dreadful The Witches remake.
Roger Rabbit is authentic. The cameos complimented the story and built the world. They weren’t treated as cameos for eye candy but as real living characters.
Who Framed Roger Rabbit is a stone cold masterpiece. And you guys are right, it's so much better viewing it as adult. I played my vhs copy over and over growing up. But I notice so much more now. One thing I spotted to make Judge Doom just a tad more off as a human was his duster. Every time he is on screen it's moving ever so subtly like there's a slight breeze. Even when he is indoors! Like Plinkett says. You may not have noticed it, but your brain did. Pure brilliance!
i still have my copy of the VHS in my parents attic. Still has the original sleeve too. that thing was probably watch 300 times easy.
My favorite scene is when Eddie finally goes to Toontown, and it's got this huge serious dramatic build-up, with the super scary music in the tunnel, and he's clearly terrified, on edge, pouring sweat, psyching himself up for it...
And then the red curtain opens into a Disney vault acid trip musical where the sun is shining, all the old cartoons are running around, every inanimate object is smiling and singing; the sudden shift in tone never fails to make me laugh.
Yeah, that tunnel scene especially, with the dramatic music... So good.
"Smile, darn ya, smile!"
You know, not a lot of people give the movie credit for that particular moment. To me, that scene was just as groundbreaking as Judy Garland stepping out into the colorful world of Oz from her sepia toned Kansas home.
That scene was a massive payoff for how hard it was built up throughout the movie. It's horrifying really, to go from a world where the tree you carve your initials in is just a tree to a world where that tree has a face, a name, a personality and probably a wife and a grove of saplings at home.
Love that shift also but in a completely opposite way, for some reason that always made me feel uneasy. It gave me a disturbed feeling.
Richard Williams along with Ralph Bakshi are some of the unsung heroes of animation. It’s a shame that Williams passed away before what would have arguably been his magnum opus - Thief and the Cobbler - got released
One of the most heartbreaking stories in the world of animation. the assholes who gutted his masterpiece deserve a special place in toontown hell
Honestly wondering if you mentioned The Thief and the Cobbler as one hell of an RLM deep cut reference.
I am glad that the thief and the cobbler has been mostly restored and released on RUclips for free so that everyone can see it. I love the final confrontation between the thief and cobbler fighting over the the last golden ball and how in the end the thief for the only time in the entire film...just gives us and lets it go cause its just not worth the trouble. its a great character beat and a wonderful conclusion to his arc as this thing just determined to steal everything he can, damned the consequences.
Ralph Bakshi's Wizards is an amazing visual film. Silhouetteing classic movie battle scenes with psychedelic backgrounds is phenomenal. Really suggest checking it out, even if it's a very strange and weird film
@@grover7531 I think most of that drama predates a lot of fans. The channel has grown quite a bit
Jay has one of the best, most consistent hair-cuts I have ever seen.
Future Jay with his completely shaved head.....
Eddie murphy was orginally asked to play the lead in this movie.. in an interview he says it was one of the only roles he regrets not taking. But i think this was one of the times it worked out for the best since this movie is perfect in so many ways as is.
The animation director Richard Williams was an amazing animator. He had a talent for making hand drawn animations that look like they're being filmed by a movie camera on a rig, not unlike how CG is handled now. The cartoons in this film are always captured at the correct perspective as the camera moves around the set.
Richard Williams' influence on the animation industry is really difficult to emphasise. Almost every single animation student of the past 15 years has had a copy of his "Animators Survival Kit" on their desk... it's like a bible for animation. I even know high end VFX artists working on Star Wars, Marvel, etc, who all started their journey from learning to animate a bouncing ball from his book.
Special mention to Dale Baer that lead (iirc) the second animation studio working on this movie.
we know.
I’d love a Re:View on The Recobbled Cut
@@jessehcreative Considering who made it, that's probably a no, LOL.
(The guy who made the Recobbled Cut, Garrett Gilchrist, used to be friends with Mike and Jay and had a big falling out with them.)
A classic. One of the most well-structured scripts in film history. So many little setups that get paid off. Every joke lands. Brilliant.
"Fuck Mickey Mouse."
You mean Space Jam: A New Legacy?
@@drobinson-uo7ic definitely not
What KILLS me to think about as an animator is not only are all the characters hand-animated. They're hand animated ON PHYSICALS CELS WITH INK AND PAINT.
The sheer monumental level of effort that went into this movie on a technical level that we never even think about is enough to keep you awake at night.
At the time is was the most expensive movie ever made. Fortunately, it paid off and gave us a classic.
Jay is such an attention to detail person, how did he miss on the desk that Eddie and his brother were acrobats, there is a photo of them as kids with their family. So him doing the backflips and such is explained through subtly
Yeah isn't there a bit about their father working in the circus? He has a background in silly theatrics that ties them well into toons.
Because he’s old and has dementia
I think it's kinda part of his character, that he used to be a super fun and easy-going type until his brother was murdered? I thought the woman in the bar makes such a remark...
Did they work as clowns before they were cops?
Unless you're talking about a different part, I believe Jay's issue wasn't that Eddie was jumping around, it was specifically when he jumps too high on the pogo stick and gets his head stuck in the lamp and cartoonishly gets electrocuted.
I get more baffled by Roger Rabbit as time goes on. It's impressive to a point that I feel its biggest failing is that there's a 100% lack of Tom & Jerry in it.
I read somewhere there was supposed to be a scene where Tom and Jerry were in attendance at Marvin Acme's funeral, but no one could get the licensing for their involvement
@@Grovester77 Popeye was supposed to be there, too. There are storyboards out there on the internet. Some studios would only let them use a certain amount of their characters for some reason.
Glad to see Richard Williams getting the recognition he deserves in the comment section. Genius animator, everybody should look at his work for his unreleased magnum-opas 'The Thief and the Cobbler'. Some of the most visually stunning 2D animation ever put to screen.
"Recobbled Cut" specifically. It omits the terrible musical numbers and bad dialogue added after it was picked up for distribution, and reinserts pencil tests of scenes Richard was never able to complete.
I will. Never even heard of it before but looks intriguing
@@pokcow01 interestingly, the guy who made that has some history with RLM. He worked on Gorilla Interrupted with Mike, Jay, and Rich.
@@mawbts530 Oh really? That’s cool!
it's truly insane
the segment of the space jam 2 rap battle genuinely filled me with rage. that movie is the real life equivalent of the anti-life equation i swear to god
Rest In Peace Richard Williams, the director of animation. I know a lot of people know of his book "The Animator's Survival Kit," but I'd highly recommend it even if you have no interest in actually animating. He covers the history of animation and the industry titans that he worked with as well as a "how-to" on, well, everything. Its worth a read if you're interested in understanding how animating is actually done. "Simple to learn, hard to master" type deal.
I picked it up by accident at my library because it’s so much better than most modern animator guides out there. Serendipity
He was chosen for Roger Rabbit specifically because he was comfortable animating "on ones" (every frame), which made it easier to match his animation to the acting.
100% this, every student at my animation college was issued a copy on the first day as required reading! Truly an inspiration
The Theif and The Cobbler being his biggest legacy for better and worse, he was an absolute one man powerhouse with a mind for animation. RIP a legend
Isn't The Animator's Survival Kit a series of books with a total cost of over $1000? His work is amazing and I'm sure each volume is well worth the cost, since it's basically academic textbooks by a master. I just haven't been able to justify such costs yet personally. If only the internet had come sooner, he probably would have had a popular and lucrative RUclips channel where information/education is more democratized. But there are others like Jazza with popular 2D animation channels.
This is my favorite movie of all time, so I’ve got a few things to say…
A nitpick about Rich’s nitpick: Doom being Teddy’s murderer AND the villain behind Cloverleaf isn’t a contrived coincidence. The movie states outright that Doom bought the election that made him a judge and it’s heavily implied he did so with the simoleons he stole in the heist the Brothers Valiant were trying to foil. It’s set up and paid off in the script.
As Jay pointed out, the Ink and Paint Club is an allusion to a real life situation at an unfortunate point in our country’s history. Specifically, it is a reference to The Cotton Club in Harlem, and it existed more or less as he described.
To my knowledge, all the recognizable voices in the movie are THE voices. Whoever was voicing those characters in official licensed works at the time, that’s who they got for Roger Rabbit.
The dueling pianos scene was developed in part by Chuck Jones himself. However, he disavowed the film and talked endless trash on it until the day he died. This is because there are two recognized versions of Daffy Duck: there’s the original, wacky, off-the-wall Daffy created by Bob Clampett and there’s the self-important, indignant, “you’re dethpicable” Daffy popularized by Jones. Chuck wanted to use his version for the film but Zemeckis and the rest of the crew wanted Clampett’s Daffy, as they felt he was a better fit for the tone and period of the film. To appease Jones, they allegedly made two versions of the scene, one with each Daffy, promising to use whichever one played better. Of course, they then went ahead and used the Clampett version as they always planned and a lifelong grudge was born.
As for Mickey being mean, I assume he was just smiling and playing along so Bugs wouldn’t big league him. We all no what an insufferable people pleaser that mouse is…
Never knew that about Jones. I agree with Zemeckis, original Daffy definitely fit the tone better, Chuck's Daffy only works when he gets to be the butt of the joke.
Do you happen to know if the alternate Daffy take was ever released?
Even if judge's earlier run in wasn't related to the main plot, it's still not much of a stretch if murderous mastermind toons are a rarity. A detective of all people IS going to have run ins with criminals.
There are a couple of instances in the film where the looney tunes were not Mel Blanc due to his age, The woohoo's for Daffy in the ink and paint club scene was an animator. The second was Yosemite sam, Mel recorded the lines but the audio engineers couldn't quite get it to sound right, so they had Joe Alaskey fill in. Mel Blanc apparently didn't notice it wasn't him.
@@deadpanjelly2913 Yeah, there's a few exceptions. For example, some of Donald's lines in the piano duel are old audio of Clarence Nash, with the rest done by Tony Anselmo, the primary voice at the time. The general rule, though, was that all the AAA voice talent was on board.
The crossovers in Who Framed Roger Rabbit were a collaboration between companies. Now it's a reminder of how many IPs megacorporations own.
Honestly it's one of the reasons Smash Bros. still has appeal. So many characters are third party that just imagining the red tape Nintendo had to go through just for something like Smash Ultimate to exist as all is mind boggling.
People criticize 80s cartoons for being glorified toy commercials, yet that's what these huge crossovers really are in essence.
@uNnHkP8mza fortnite is easy because it's all SO clearly a cashgrab
They originally had a much smaller budget for this film. Robert Zemeckis went back to the studio and got more money. They were originally going to go with no interactions, static camera work to make the animation easier but Zemeckis insisted on making his life harder. It paid off so hard for the studio!
Just searched for the box office - i don't know if this is true but - holy moly about 250 million $ revenue. in 1988! Good god.
When I was in like 7th grade Charles Fleischer had a website called monkey dog. It was an awful little geocities style thing. But there was his email address there. I told him I loved Roger rabbit and he sent a very nice response telling me about a planned sequel involving ww2 and nazis. Definitely a strange guy (why i like him) but I'll never forget that and how nice that was of him.
There was a real script with this plot called Roger Rabbit II: The Toon Platoon. Spielberg refused to sign onto it because how it cartoonishly depicted Nazis.
I hear that Jack Nicholson was actually one of the casting choices they considered for Valiant before they settled on Bob, which would *really* create some mind-bending confusion with Chinatown. I also heard that Tim Curry was one of the potentials they were looking at for casting as Judge Doom, but the producers thought that his performance would be too scary. In my mind there now lives a version of WFRR starring Jack Nicholson as the depressed alcoholic loser detective, and Tim Curry as the creepy maniacal cartoon villain in another IT-esque performance.
I love this alternate universe idea, I'd pay way too much to see it.
Interesring to note that Curry did end up getting the opportunity to deliver a solid performance as an animated villian with FernGully, only 4 years later.
@@tweeeeeex Lloyd is tall as well and this works nicely because he looms over Bob Hoskins. Whereas Curry was roughly Jack's height, probably an inch shorter. There wouldn't have been the same physicality.
Eddie Murphy said he turned down the role as well
There will literally never be another movie like this. Who framed Roger rabbit is a once in a lifetime opportunity for such an amazing work of art.
what about MONKEYBONE :^)
@@nepdisc3722 I see you're a man of culture. I saw that movie in theaters at age 12 and I loved it. Fell in love with the cat lady
@@alexanderbrambila8274 monkeybone is a 2/10 film, thus the :^)
That's exactly the thing, it could only come about in this little window between the advent of motion controlled cameras and digital movie making. Before motion control, you couldn't have this dynamic interplay between live action and animation. And ever since digital animation/CGI and non-linear editing took over, there are so many shortcuts available to film makers that there's no way they'd be able to justify sticking to traditional cel animation all the way through. Animators still do great work today and it's never easy, but that hardheaded stylistic purity is a huge part of what makes Roger Rabbit sing (The Merry-Go-Round Broke Down).
@@nepdisc3722 nah I'd give it atleast a 5/10. Perfect weirdo movie for a Sunday afternoon. Or a gift for that furry friend/relative
u guys are definitely my comfort channel
It's not a stretch when Eddie does all those circus acts in the third act because during the slow pan scene you see that him and his brother were part of a performing act. Eddie knew how to entertain and do acrobatic acts.
Nitpick absolutely but I adore you guys for reviewing this film. It's special in the hearts of many of us and I love this film so much. Just wanted to contribute the logic in the film and I'm sure there's a hundred comments already pointing out what I already did.
Eddie and his brother were almost like toons themselves which is why they were so in tune with them and worked well with them. Part of the tragedy of Eddies brother's death was that he cut himself off from that part of himself.
Yours was the first I saw on this point
In case anyone doesn't already know this, a "cattle call" is how producers refer to the process of casting featured extras and other bit parts open to public audition.
I remember it was a legit movie thing that had zero to do with cows. But couldn't remember exactly what, thanks.
Talking about the voice actress for Betty Boop Mae Questel, it's so funny to me that many anime voice actresses are also of a similar age as she was during the filming of this movie and they're very active. The voice actress for Goku (Masako Nozawa) for example is 85 and she still screams like a lunatic into microphones voicing those scenes.
I watched Pixar's "Turning Red" a few weeks ago and when the character Mr. Gao showed up I said to myself "wait is that James Hong" before looking it up - I was floored to discover that not only is Hong still around (he's 93) but he's still working!
@@samworf6550 Yeah he's in "Everything Everywhere All at Once" that also came out this year which is a great film if you haven't seen it yet. He has some mild action scenes too lol...
It's too bad I hate how Goku sounds in Japanese. God bless Masako Nozawa but with her voice acting Goku he sounds like a crazy Japanese grandmother screaming while taking a hard shit.
Not for me...
June Foray was still working until a few years before she died in 2017; her last performances are from when she was 96 years old, when she again performed Rocky the Flying Squirrel in a short. The year before she returned (alongside a 93 year old Alan Young) to voice her DuckTales characters in the Remastered version of the video game.
@@AndyAnonymous Legends.
I graduated high school in 88 my dad and I were hanging out, kinda for the last time really, and we went to see this movie. My dad and I LOVE old 30's/40's Warner Bros. cartoons and we laughed like hell during this show. It was the last movie dad and I went to see, he is 82 now and suffering dementia, but he still loves WB cartoons from the Golden Age, and I will always remember seeing WFRR with him.. Thanks, Roger.
I will attest that Charles Fleischer is a crazy character - met him at a horror con years ago and the conversation just got weirder and more intense. Like that scene of him in the movie Zodiac, it was not too far removed from that. There were hundreds of people around me, but I felt like Jake Gyllenhaal trapped in a basement with him trying to find my way out of the situation. Kind of scary and intimidating. He wasnt a bad guy - just reallllllly weird.
I saw him perform standup at the Improv in LA, I was unfortunately in the front row and got roasted by him. It was really bizarre crowd work. He's intense for sure.
He doesn’t blink. His eyes only grow wider and wider. He was perfectly cast for that creepy ass scene in Zodiac.
@@gsesquire3441 He definitely has an unusual reputation in Hollywood. I've seen a lot of comedians on podcasts reference him as being kind of an eccentric fixture at L.A. comedy clubs. Nothing malicious, just off putting.
Dude has serious Crispin Glover vibes.
@@gsesquire3441 possibly. But no less awkward. I think it is probably a mix of both.
This movie truly is an anomaly. One of those that seemingly avoided the scrutiny and interference of the studio, and some really talented people got to make something great.
Spielberg was really big at that time
This is actually where the term "bumping the lamp" came from: when an artist/animator/team goes above and beyond and delivers something ridiculously amazing.
Yeah, the animators brag about working on that scene
I have never heard that term anywhere in my life but am sure as hell going to start using it as often as possible
Never heard it before. That's awesome
I watched this movie so many times as a kid and Christopher Lloyd's character was always the most horrifying and terrifying! The eyes and his melting just so scary! I don't think I've seen it as an adult so I'll definitely need to watch it again.
Remember me edddieeee
Always brings chills down my spine
One little thing I never picked up on when I was a kid, was that after the judge got dipped, they pointed out that it was a rubber mask.
So you never actually see what the toon underneath looked like.
@@st0rmforce it’s implied he’s the hunter who shot Bambi
@@claymathewselevator8121 Not in the film. It was an idea that was dropped and never made it into the final script.
For me it was the voice that made it frightening.
As a kid that pattycake bit always flew over my head. Watching that same scene and the eventual punchline of that joke as an adult was one of the funniest experiences that I had from watching a movie. Brilliant stuff.
yeah same here. thats just a classic chuck jones gag too. it works so well
@@Poormrworry More Tex Avery than Chuck. Tex was the horndog while Chuck just wanted to make some good jokes.
Eddie says it best when he's taking the pictures; "You've got to be kidding me!"
One of my all time favorites. I love how its limitations has also made it hold up all these years.
Side note as a kid I was like “why is doc brown evil now”
im still trying to find jessica rabbit's ears
Didnt expect to see you here! Cool lol
Hey um, this is a side note but, can someone explain to me why the poster for Space Jam is up on the wall between Rich and Jay, instead of Who Framed Roger Rabbit?
As a kid, for whatever reason, I never made the connection between Doc Brown and Doom. Christopher Lloyd was so good at differentiating himself in each role.
Same.
I really enjoyed hearing Jay’s thoughts on Who Framed Roger Rabbit, and also the guy who liked Kenobi was there
By the end of it, it was actually okay.
@@GavinAeilts Kenobi?? What are you smoking?
I love your comment.
That is all.
@@HerohammerStudios the leia chase scene was insane, i was laughing my ass off
Leia doesn't trust Obi-wan, but instantly trusts the empire female XD
The "guy" you're talking about is a paid actor
I feel like the Daffy and Donald on piano scene might have been inspired by Charlie Chaplin and Buster Keatons pianist and violinist scene in Limelight. Two comedy rivals trying to out do each other on stage
The Lego Movie is the only movie that's come close to being this good in terms of the novelty of mixing multiple properties together but still remembering to tell a really good story.
Especially when you see how LAZY the Lego Movie 2 is.
The Lego Movie and The Lego Batman Movie were pretty much the last IP crossover movies to actually be fun, like the whole crossover aspect didn’t even happen in Lego Batman until the last act
I think the Lego Movie's solid, but like the new Chip And Dale one, the message falls apart when you stop to think about who is delivering it. Disney's going to criticise nostalgic rose tinted glasses? And something connected to Lego is going to champion creativity when they've been making very deliberate model kits with not a brick out of place for decades?
@@Joe90h I think Phil Lord and Chris Miller made the message in the lego movie work. If anything, they got away with somewhat criticizing the product they were selling in a way I don't think Lego fully realized.
@@Joe90h as a peripheral Lego fan I assure you that they still make a lot of unique kits and ranges. Ninjago for example, which also had multi media tie in.
They cast Amy Irving as she was both 1) great for the role and a talented singer and 2) just so happened to be Spielberg's first wife
The most underrated aspect of the film is Alan Silvestri’s amazing score. It’s pretty much perfect!
I think it's Silvestri's best score TBH
@@Scripture-Man Everything you think is a problem is why I love it. The dark, tense, menacing motif is what helps make this movie feel like there's more at stake which is hard in a movie with cartoon characters... it's a brilliant contrast that also works alongside the dark noir mood the film is also going for. This is not a "cartoon" movie it's a film noir first that is also about cartoons so it needed a score that while quite insane at times also brought the tension, suspense and have that be at the forefront.
The guys have to do a re:View of 'Brazil' from 1985. That movie fits this show perfectly!
Not only you guys did a great job on covering this gem of a movie, but the comment section is a goldmine of informations on its own. And that's one of the many reasons why I adore RLM. Oh and thanks to anyone sharing their knowledge about the movie 🙏🏻
You know a film is special when the usual tired memes are only occasionally appearing in the comments section
Very cool
That Chip and Dale movie was a production nightmare: 8 years, 3 directors, two different teams of writers and a last minute re-write to replace Pluto with Peter Pan as the villain. Remnenats are still left over from the original plot of creating the “ultimate toon” using different character’s signature features like hair, mouths and accessories which made no sense in the re-write’s plot about making bootleg movies. The plot about toons being kidnapped and the Rescue Rangers trying to uncover who’s behind it actually had promise, but the rest of the movie is just slapping the audience in the face with references, then explaining those references.
Just asking, whats special about creating the "ultimate toon", becuase that seems some shit storytelling in the vein of creating the perfect dinosaur in Jurassic World. What are you accomplishing with creating the ultimate toon, who wins with that?
The bootleg part may be a rewrite, but then, is a better excuse of why someone is actually kidnapping cartoons that plays well with real life happenings (just like toontown being destroyed parallels to motorways and the car mass transit los angeles got in that era).
The bad guy being pluto, completely understand the reference (but then, why also not donald) but damn if it isnt harder to explain in a good manner. And i say this as someone who hates that in the movie chip and dale are kids from the 80's, just to cram some modern school kid cartoon references, instead of actually making them be 1930's kids that then worked with pluto and donald on the disney short, maybe you can make then they went into theater after that and that didnt work, until their gig in Rescue Rangers. I dont even think it would have altered too much the bootleg plot at all, its clear as movie rules go toons do not grow if its not funny for them to grow (like peter pan), just like roger can get out of handcuffs, so it makes sense they stay the same age for nearly a 100 years.
@@SPRidley sounds like toon eugenics to me, makes sense to me if you want to make the evil toons akin to Nazis. Haven't seen the movie, so I'm just guessing.
@@SPRidley Creating the "ultimate toon" is mostly motivation for the villain to kidnap famous toons and excuse to shove as many references into the movie as possible along with some plausible deniability for recognizable characters. But even that is lazily done in the lab, with things like Jimmy Neutron's hair being taken from one of the first google images that comes up when you search Jimmy Neutron hair. I think the kidnapping plot works, but the villain and their motivation needs to match it.
Peter's bit is also kind of fucked when you think about how Bobby Driscoll ended up.
@@kurowasanabe Very much so
Watching the behind-the-scenes footage, I can never tell if Charles Fleischer is legitimately insane... or if he's just fucking with everyone because he knows everyone else _thinks_ he's insane. Either way, his interviews for the movie are absolutely hilarious because he's so damn serious about it... while wearing a cartoon rabbit suit.
There's a bit on Norm MacDonald Live (his RUclips talk show) where they talk about Fleischer and Norm's sidekick Adam Eget thinks Fleischer's a bit crazy after dealing with him at his (Adam's) comedy club.
I think it's possible to both be clever enough to play up your craziness while also being genuinely crazy, almost like Andy Kaufman
Who framed Roger rabbit is one of the most intelligent family films I've ever had the pleasure of watching. It's witty, moving, exciting, funny as hell, timeless, it can be rewatched many times, and it isn't so complicated that children can't follow the story or too simple that adults feel like they're watching a kiddies film.
The sad part is that this kind of a movie would be impossible nowadays...
Did you see The Last Wish? Very different tonally, but there are still great animated family movies that everybody can enjoy.
I like this movie and I seen it when I was little and it's my favorite movie from my childhood and it's a good movie but not funny about this movie and it's still a good movie but not funny about this movie and do you agree with me about what I say
I met Richard Williams a few years back at the Ottawa animation festival. He is a very interesting dude but he spoke during a resrospective of his showing off all of his old work. He did a ton of commercial work that was quality animation. Everyone was asked to not ask about his pet project, The Thief and the Cobbler because it was too depressing for him to even discuss. An animation legend for sure. Him and Glen Keane.
Don't forget that Andreas Deja also worked on Roger Rabbit! For anyone who doesn't know, Deja did a lot of famous characters from the Disney renaissance like Scar, Hercules, and Gaston.
oh man yeah, the thief and the cobbler. now that was something, what a tragedy
I've never seen it confirmed for sure, but something about Christopher Lloyd's performance in hindsight makes him being a cartoon make so much sense. Like I feel like he deliberately acted physically like a cartoon. Watch his head turns and him turning on his heels all the time. He moves with ease-in and ease-out, a principle of animation that exaggerates movement and timing. Like in the bar, when someone kicks over the can of dip, you get the obvious hint seeing him back up away from it, but also when he looks up and sees eddie and roger escape, his head moves like a cartoon. His facial expressions are very sharp and fast and then held still for long stretches of time like a cartoon. I'd love to hear if that's what his technique was for the character, 'cause it just sticks out to me now after learning about animation.
I read somewhere that he correctly guessed his character was a toon when he started reading the script, he did a great job.
He never blinks in the movie too. Cuz those aren't his real eyes. And he wears all black like old movie and tv villians used to do. And whenever he shows up wind blows his cape back.
Wait, you mean the actor, having prior knowledge of who his character is....acted that way?! Great freakin observation!
Foreshadowing. I mean it's obvious in hindsight but on a first viewing it probably will surprise someone. I unfortunately had most of the movie spoiled back then from making of featurettes that aired on TV before it came out.
He absolutely acts like a cartoon character. Remember when he trips on the glass balls in the Acme factory? He runs in place on them for a few seconds before falling when any normal person would have fallen immediately. It is so obvious that Judge Doom (DOOM!!!) is a toon and that's one of the best things about rewatching the movie.
I always felt that Goofy and Donald were way more likeable because they're flawed, and Mickey's sanitized corporate logo status kept writers from really doing anything interesting with him at all. My generation knows him as the mindlessly smiling Disney World logo, and the younger generation think of him as a CGI toddler character.
"Mickey Mouse Shorts" fixes the blandness in ways that I'm surprised they were allowed to do, but it should not have taken 90 years to make him entertaining.
You're right; Mickey actually was sanitized. At some point (this was when Walt Disney was still alive) he became the corporate logo and they restricted what Mickey was allowed to do. All the "bad" stuff he used to be able to do was reassigned to Donald. The same thing happened to Popeye. He became popular with children so he was toned down, and they introduced Popeye's dad to do all the stuff Popeye used to do that would be a bad influence on kids. (Popeye could still fight, though. They didn't go too nuts toning him down.)
The new Mickey Mouse cartoons definitely fix that. I’ll even argue 2000’s Mickey stuff like House of Mouse fixed that too
In Europe, Mickey is nothing but a logo, but Donald Duck is huge. Like really huge, the Donald Duck comic books released weekly for almost 60 years and Carl Barks and Don Rosa are legends here.
Mickey Mouse was always my favourite, because I don't really like stupid characters as a rule (and while Goofy is likable, he is pretty stupid), and Donald's temper put me off. Thus said, the Mickey I had most contact with as a child was the version from the early shorts (in which Mickey still had his own misadventures instead of always being forced to pay the straight man to the other two) and the Lustige Taschenbücher, in which Mickey was a smart detective (and I LIKE smart characters as a general rule). I was very glad though that in the more recent cartoons Mickey has been allowed to have more misadventures again. And naturally House of Mouse did a great job playing with Mickey's "perfect guy" image.
The french dub can be seen as one step more "meta", the voice actor voicing Roger is the usual french voice actor for Michael J. Fox.
So we have a loony Marty against an evil Doc Brown in another Zemeckis movie - sort of.
When I first saw Roger Rabbit in the theater, a young girl started crying so much when Judge Doom dipped the shoe in The Dip, that her mother had to take her from the theater and they never came back. I always think about that when watching this movie and feel sorry for her. It was a strange movie to try to guess if you could bring your kids or not.
Fox and the hound! I remember going into the washroom following and sobbing and another woman trying to comfort me
Honey I shrunk the kids was the first movie I saw in the theater as a child and I cried so much when that damn Scorpion killed the Ant, but my mom was mindful enough to tell me to shut the hell up because I disturb the other viewers.
So I just cried in silence like a good citizen.
In retrospect it seems like that wasn't the best parenting, haha.
Ah childhood, I miss you.
@@Bensonders Nooo I had completely forgotten about Anty, and you just reminded me. Damn you feelings.
@@eblatz80 yes, first movie I ever cried to!
Roger Rabbit is when Animation/live Action movies peaked. Nothing had or will pass it.
It's not even close tbh, this movie is so much better than any other Animation/Live Action movie it's not even funny.
Okay, foreseer!
Damn straight
Space Jam exists sir 😤
The funny thing is that Disney was convinced this would be the movie that would bring a new era of animation. Then The Little Mermaid came the following year and blew Roger out of the water.
“Mickey would never do something funny” is such a perfect summation.
Videos like this are the reason Redlettermedia continues to remain the best film analysis channel on youtube, point blank.
In terms of profit, Roger Rabbit was the actual start of the Disney renaissance. It literally saved the studio (for better or for worse)
Best being the 90’s animation studios
Worst being everything after that (except for Tron legacy)
@@eleSDSU different strokes for different blokes
ones man suckage is anothers particular pleasure.
@@eleSDSU I can’t imagine out of all of Robert Valley’s animated projects, someone would choose Tron Legacy over Motor City
Yep. Little Mermaid gets too much credit.
The prequel that almost happened, "Roger Rabbit: The Toon Platoon", would have had Roger going from his adopted human home to find his parents in LA. He meets a wannabe actor and Roger accidentally steals the role the guy was auditioning for. Then WW2 happens, both these characters and other toons are drafted, and the army send off an entire Toon platoon to fight Germany since Toons are indestructible. But once the toons get there, they can't fight anyone. They just try to entertain. The climax has Roger, guy, and the other toons storm a base to rescue Jessica who was kidnapped from America and forced to make radio broadcasts for Germany
Steven Speilberg changed his opinion on WW2 after Schindler's List, so he wouldn't sign off on it. Also the recent merger of WB and Hanna Barbera made things really tricky. Another version of this movie could have gotten made but it was between making another Roger Rabbit movie and the cinematic classic Pearl Harbor.
Also Roger's dad would have been Bugs Bunny but who seriously fucking cares
the original screen play if it was as explained here by you would have actually been fkn amazing. i can say without a doubt i would have owned the sequel and would have wore out the vhs just like i did the original. lol.
That's the dumbest shit I've ever heard.
@@SmEiF- I condensed it as much as I could. This specific script most definitely would have been retooled if they went through with another RR movie. The entire script of this version IS in fact online for all to read and is very very easy to find
Yeah and Spielberg brought on board JJ Abrams as the writer before he left the Project.
My recollection from a Walt Disney biography is that Mickey Mouse started out with a strong mischievous personality. The character became the popular face of Walt Disney animation, and so Walt felt the need to make the character a good role model for children. This meant essentially removing that old personality, and all future Mickey Mouse cartoons became about things happening to Mickey rather than him doing things actively. That mischievous personality was given to Donald Duck, who coupled it with extreme narcissism.
same thing kinda happened with Kermit the Frog. I mean he had a lot more edge before his face was the logo.
Yeah when a character becomes more of a "brand" than a character they tend to lose a lot of personality. The same kind of applies to Mario, we'll have to see how the movie of that works but it makes him seem pretty bland.
I think Bugs is infinitely more charming and entertaining than Mickey. I could make a short essay but bugs does something mickey used to do or would do where something stupid happens than Bugs looks at the camera with a wry/annoyed look and wiggles his nose like, 'you believe this?'
Meanwhile modern boring Mickey would just cross his arms and go, 'aw shucks...' like he's some geriatric old man.
Came here to comment this
That mischievous personality is in full force if you check out the old Mickey comics from like the 30s and 40s. He brandishes guns, gets in fights, flirts with Minnie, etc.
I helped interview Charles Fleischer at a comic convention in CT. I was the cameraman for my Buddy's coverage of the con and we met Charles and attempted to do an interview with him. It was planned and not meant as a gotcha, we had done research and wanted to ask him questions about Roger Rabbit specifically. The interview was going well for a few minutes and he was very well spoken and friendly. Suddenly Fleischer's whole demeanor changed and he turned and looked straight through the camera and into my eyes. "I know who you are...Stop it. STOP IT." Then he just clams up and points at us, backing away and leaving. Never gonna forget that, it was creepy.
@@Scripture-Man i chalked it up to being sleep deprived, or medicated and on a busy schedule...until I saw this video and heard that he may be more than a bit
eccentric
One of my childhood favorites and at the same time the fuel of many of my childhood nightmares.
I'll never forget Christopher Lloyd's fucked up face as long as I live
why would you have nightmares about jessica rabbit?
same here, guy
I watched this at an age where my fear of the uncanny turned into morbid fascination. The Judge was great for that. It's impossible to look away.
@@richarddecat3417
Not Jessica Rabbit, “Lena Hyena”
The shoe part was brilliant, not just the execution of the scene, but also conceptually: you've got these cartoony anthropomorphized shoes that naturally exist as a pair, and you have your antagonist just murder one of them in a display of evil villainy. It's cartoony, but the implications are impactful and chilling.
It was such a treat to see this on re:View, I've been hoping to see this come up for as long as I've watched RLM. This movie really stuck with me, even though I only saw it a couple times. I always want to describe this movie and recommend it, but there's no way to express to the average content consumer in 2022 how special and great this movie really is.
It's also symbolic in a subtle way, seeing how Doom also killed Eddie's brother.
Yes like Eddie is a shoe who is missing his other shoe.
I miss movies where you can actually hate the villain.
@@happytrails151 Whoa man.... never thought of that.
"Gum" shoe
Who Framed Roger Rabbit gave us the ground-breaking technology for merging animation and live-action, that allows us now to see the iconic Rich Evans come to life in these RLM videos
I like how they’ve evolved his animation model. He’s starting to look distinguished.
It's amazing how much this rendition of Rich Evans blurs the line between his current reality as a tragic and real alcoholic, and his unforgettable origins as a buffoonish cartoon character. The animation department deserves an Annie.
@@EricLeafericson the dedication RLM shows to put all of Rich’s beer bottles on strings is really remarkable. They could have just made it all CGI.
I watched half of this while folding laundry and they convinced me to turn the video off and watch the entire movie just as a refresher because they made it sound so good all over again.
9:20 that was actually a Richard Williams call. Richard Williams was the animation director and was notorious for being one of the most overcomplicated animators who always wanted to push his work as far as possible. Honestly, this movie probably couldn't have been made to the degree of fine tuning that it was if they didnt have Richard Williams.
Look up his portfolio. Fantastic animator.
this is why we shouldn't just worship actors and directors.
movie making is a team exercise and we neglect great artisans because of entertainment elite vanity
there are the crafty amongst us, empower them directly
maybe we should crowdfund Rich's (and science mans) investigation into chip'n'dale's mirth
@@man.inblack Because most people dont know how animation works, it is very hard for people who arent in the field to know who to reward for what. Most people know actors and directors so it's easy to reward them, but most people dont know what a layout artist, in-betweener, color key artist, vis dev director, supervising animator, effects animator, crowd animator, lighter, rigger, modeler, or texture artist are.
I find it funny when the oscars will award some live action movie for special effects, but won't award an animated movie for special effects because... The entire thing is special effects haha.
That's why the Annie award ceremony is fun to watch because it is run by animators and rewards specific fields of animation that would never make it into the oscars
@@bloopboop9320 I never knew what showrunners were till the cons dragged them into the limelight.
BTS videos are quite popular and many are aware of the roles of the entertainment industry more than any other.
It’s simpler to herd people with the pretty faces and creative management.
Most people don’t know what directors do but they still applaud their work
I was told that "swing the lamp" became a winged word among animators. It is supposed to mean that an animator always should try to overshoot the boundaries of animation.
Yes, there were a number of hard rules that animators held to in having interactions between animated and live action characters. Fixed camera, flat lighting, characters didn't move around each other, characters didn't touch each other, the angle of the lighting never changed, etc. The creators of Who Framed Roger Rabbit made a point of breaking every one of those rules just so they could push the art as far as possible.
kaptainkristian made a high quality video about doing this animation the hard way, explaining the term and idea.
@@geozop ha, yes! had thought i heard it from somewhere else but i definitely picked this up from our kaptain too!
This movie is slightly my villain origin story because I tried to show it to a group of friends years back and the only thing they had to say when they looked up from their phones halfway through was "so does this movie actually have a story or is it just the live action animation thing"
Damn, don't you just love when people won't give something a chance, then criticize it out of ignorance?
Those friends have no taste I’m sorry man.
So you dipped them all?
I'm terrified to ask what movies your "friends" thought had a good story.
Get new friends
Actually, over the last decade, we've had a bunch of really excellent Mickey Mouse animated shorts by Paul Rudish. They're actually pretty good, and some of them are actually really funny!
It honestly warms my heart a little that some kids today will grow up remembering quality mickey cartoons from their childhood.
Cultural stagnation
I would assume that one of the larger groups of people today with positive childhood memories of Mickey formed those memories while playing video games. Kingdom Hearts and Epic Mickey have sold tens of millions of copies
I'm half way through and worried they won't mention Richard "Thief and the Cobbler" Williams. That guy's animation direction is so much of why this film works.
Read the full expanded description on the video lol.
@@itsd0nk oh 😆 thanks for drawing my attention to that
@@Orgotheonemancult their amazing and sneaky editing skills even apply to their description text on so many videos 😂
I'm a professional 2D animator and I can't express enough how mind-blowingly impressive the animation in this movie is. Richard Williams is an absolute genius and for good reason his animation course was used as the blueprint for my own education in art school. Everyone should check out The Animator's Survival Kit, even if you're not thinking about actually animating anything. It's a fascinating read about the artform and you really get a sense of what a brilliant man he was. RIP
Agreed. Animators survival kit is incredible. If you're just getting started though it can be intimidating. Also, Preston Blair's book is great for idiots like me.
My head cannon on why Mickey Mouse is more characteristically "cartoony" in this movie is because much like Disney he's a legit psychopath who will perform whatever role he needs to on camera to make money, but in real life he's soulless and inflicts suffering wherever he can.
AMEN
Yeah, it was established with baby Herman in the first scene that a toon's real personality could be completely different from his performance while working.
That's the south park canon
there are actually newer Mickey cartoons that are great because they realize that any character who has to spend his entire life never being selfish or even mildly inconveniencing anyone would be a neurotic ball of anxiety issues, and it's hilarious
They also brought back old school jerk mickey from the older cartoons which I loved.
@@toastedt140 Indeed. Mickey Mouse cartoons were awesome before his cartoons were made in color. Check out The Karnival Kid, everybody!
holy shit is this why im the way i am
the new shorts (produced under Paul Rushdie) of Mickey and friends, understands that and how a toony characters should be written.
The characters are both hilarious and at the same time relatable. The characters are written in a way their goals and feelings are serious to them and still they are "toony" and they also knows that.
Mickey is a loveable friend and also a wreck, a ball of stress, on the verge of collapsing and at time he knows and try to change :)
Goofy is totally random, over the top, and because he knows that, he's thankful for his friends.
Donald knows it can explode like a volcano at any minute
and so on.
It also succeeds in giving to Minnie a distinct personality from Mickey...
I agree! I adore the newer Mickey Mouse cartoons, it really gives so much life and personality into all the characters, life that’s been sorely needed as of recent.
"Who Framed Roger Rabbit" has been such a huge influence in my life. Visually and technically stunning, as well as being a good and fun movie.
@@dallesamllhals9161 I'm a 6 foot redhead with an hourglass figure.
@@AmiYamato who's dating a hyperactive rabbit
It's always strange seeing RUclipsrs you follow crossing over 😂
That new thing you did was aight. I don't know how the math on it would check out, but have you considered doing a vtuber thingy?
absolutely 10/10
Holy shit I never realized Charles Fleisher was Bob Vaughn in Zodiac! That's easily the creepiest scene in the whole movie. Zodiac doesn't get enough love. It's one of my favorite movies of all time. You guys should to a Re:Review of it someday. Great video! Who Framed Roger Rabbit? still totally holds up.
That scene never fails to make me feel tense and on edge.
The scene with the double stabbing on the lake side.....
Still one of my favourite movies! I never realised that either.
@@PatstarDeluxe "Rick didn't draw any posters."
"No he drew this one."
"Mr. Greysmith...I do the posters myself. It's my handwriting." 😳😳😳
@@spencerkindra8822 So, so creepy. Fincher's best (but so many people will disagree)
@@PatstarDeluxe I'm one of those few people who agrees with you, I think it's his best movie.
I always thought the Judge Doom twist was set-up well. The movie hints at it throughout the movie but it's done in a subtle manner.
1 - It was established by Eddy that the Evil Toon got away with a shitton of money from the bank heist that got Eddy's brother killed.
2 - One of the cops mentions that Judge Doom bought the election by coming in out of nowhere and spending a ton of money
3 - note his reaction when he's dealing with "dip". The gloves, backing away from it like it was acid, etc...
and so on.
There's also the theory that Judge Doom's true identity was the character Pistol Packin' Possum, who is the only character with a poster on RK Maroon's wall that does not make an official appearance in the movie. The character sports the same red eyes as Doom as well as the same gun. Watch the first scene in Maroon's office. The character's gun is always pointed at Maroon in that scene, foreshadowing his imminent demise later in the film.
haven't finished the vid, not sure if this is mentioned, but there's also the fact his cape is always flowing even without wind and how he wears gloves and backs away from the toon killing barrel when it spills.
@@Awesoman Ooh that makes a lot of sense. In the murder scene, Eddie first notices the gun in the reflection of PPP's poster, exactly layered on top of PPP's gun, and when Maroon is being shot, PPP in the poster has his gun to Maroon's head.
@@manjackson2772 Exactly. Definitely not a coincidence. Considering that neither Zemeckis nor anyone else involved with the movie has ever commented on PPP, it's possible that the character isn't really Doom's true form and only served as symbolic foreshadowing towards Maroon's demise. But there is plenty of room for speculation.
I believe Zemeckis or someone involved in the film have joked that in an earlier draft, Doom was actually the hunter that shot Bambi's mother but decided that might be a little too mean-spirited. And I reject the Marvel graphic novel sequel where Doom's real identity as "Baron Von Rotten" as canon. Especially since no one directly involved in that film worked on that book.
The gloves bit was great. I remember thinking as a kid that of course he'd want to wear gloves; if it can dissolve immortal toons then a human still probably wouldn't want it on their hands. But then when the twist happened I went "Oh! The gloves!"
This was one of your best re:Views. It felt good to see Who Framed Roger Rabbit shown some love and respect. Thank you so much!
It’s one of those movies you look at and say “Nobody in the filmmaking industry has the time, money, or drive to make anything like this ever again.”
It was just solid gold of a movie. The effort put in, the story, the acting and getting all those studio people to sign off on it. Truly a labor of love!
Ready Player One and the newer Space Jam 2 are just a product. Even the book was just made to get cash and is devoid of soul. A complete lack of depth and just full on spectacle. Years later kids will have nostalgia for it because growing up with it but nobody will speak well of it beyond that.
Who Framed Roger Rabbit is still talked about and seen as the gold standard for this type of film. It lasts.
Much like Big Bang Theory, I've taken to calling Ready Player One "Nerd Black Face". It's all pandering, all posing, all fake....to an offensive degree.
Its like racism in the old stuff. Sign of sickness of society. Only its the other way round now, it subverted expectations, it broke new ground!
@@rudeboyjohn3483 That's a good way to describe it. I'm going to adapt that to modern country music- "redneck black face"
21:45
That wasn't a coincidence, it was laid out by two earlier scenes: The Theater scene where Eddie explains his brother's death to roger, and Doom's introduction scene. Eddie in the theater scene tells roger they were investigating a bank robbery for a million "simoleans"(slang for dollars) when the robber killed his brother. In the earlier scene of doom, Eddie asks the Lt. how Doom was able to be a judge, the Lt. tells him "spread a bunch of simoleans around ToonTown and bought the election." Doom's bank robbery funded everything he did afterward.
The amount of effort that went into the tiniest of details. Rewatched it today with my parents and it holds up magnificently.