Adrian! You nailed this lesson. Thanks so much for taking the time to break it down for Charlie Brown! I appreciate it. So complex but your delivery is very comprehensive. Awesome!
*I propose you try bamboo instead for bracing because it allows you to thin it down to about 1/16 of an inch, enabling more vibration while remaining strong enough to safeguard the soundboard. Merry Christmas to you*
Excellent lesson on bracing. As someone who is hoping to make a guitar, this was seriously informative on the guitar top. There is not much information on this, so thanks for putting this up.
Wonderful explanation, short and sweet. I'm a new owner of. 2019 Martin D-18 and i love to understand the technical and physics aspects of my beautiful instrument. Thanks for sharing.
excellent Adrian. I have shared it among the pupils of my HTL School for stringed Musical instruments in Hallstatt / Austria. One little - interesting thing. Kalamazoo is not always the best example for ladder bracing, maybe either Kay, Harmony etc. As you might remember, the Kalamazoo KG21 of my father, for which you built new sides, had a combination of ladder bracing and cross bracing..... I measured that same guitar, explained how it possibly could have been designed by Gibson - measures loosly based on the older Gibson L00 etc - measuring all possible distances, vonstructing circles and seeing the relations between the dadius of the circles etc and also explaned the bracing. The Kalamazoo has an X bracing with some rudiments of ladder bracing, very interesting design, which still sounds and holds up very well, ever since 1937! Best wishes Adrian and thanks for the good work!
That's what I love about Martin. That rich, warm sound. Taylors are known for their bright sound, but I've heard/seen a 314ce Taylor and 50th Anniversary 814ce that sound warmer with good mids than most of the other Taylors and am considering one of these 2. The 814ce has a V-bracing. How does that affect the tone?
Search for curfed bracing in US patents. Curfed braces can be used with any bracing patterns. They would accomodate the top to vibrate better than the regular braces.
My guitar teacher told me he liked the warm tones from a cedar topped guitar I bought. It DOES have warm pleasant tones, I agree. But, I wasn’t able to choose spruce (as I wanted). My life’s battle-24/7-365- is righteously questing for guitars that grant equality to all six strings. Through various testing methods, you can find out which strings are your guitar’s favourite children. For FAR too much of my life, I’ve lived with the A string and the wound E dominating, and I am DONE with that sh**. Spruce is stiffer & brighter, and its treble- love CAN sound ugly. I admit it. But your high E and your B string are less likely to get lost. I believe (excluding all other factors for the sake of this talk) that spruce is usually more egalitarian regarding wound & unwound strings. Wound-string “squeek” is louder with spruce, but that’s not the guitar’s fault: we ALL should be practicing our playing to avoid / eliminante that. For me-personally-I’d trade or exchange cedar’s warmth for spruce’s articulate clarity.
Martin's gradual tapering of the bracing towards the side edges is rather because the areas of the top, approaching the side edges, is gradually receiving support from being fastened to those sides. The sound (resonant top vibration) would be correspondingly deadened if the bracing weren't tapered there. This way, it keeps its linearity of vibration amplitude across the top, which is very important for balanced sound across the spectrum. That's why he's added extra bracing on the bass side, for another example. The 'stone dropped in the water,' implies that there is somehow a significant lessening of vibration moving away from the bridge, owing to wood damping it. While this is a relatively minor consideration, the bracing would be carved, if that were the primary factor, to emulate the inverse square law all the way from the bridge plate. It is not. Voila.
Great one! Could you please spell out the name of this luthier making parlour guitars with ladder bracing? You mention him at 2:36, but my french ear can't hear that name ;-)
Thank you for your presentation. Could you get into discussing the size or thickness of the braces and how it affects tone in your next video? Again thanks.
Hey Mark, great question! Wether it makes a difference is debatable, some people think it does whilst some think it doesn't. But looking at the facts, bracings aren't symmetric and on paper this will affect the sound.
@@thefellowshipofacoustics Tx, that's what I always thought, it should make a difference. I had it done a couple of times, and still have an old Yamaha FG75 waiting for it, or not, I don't know, while having shied away from a couple of '70s (cheap) D18s, because I had doubts how it would work out.
@@MarkJVSomers the bracing will make little difference on a FG75 with it's laminate top. Saddle intonation and nut slots need to be reversed along with pickguard.
Hey thanks for the video! Q: Do you think that taylors V bracing is more of a gimmick to stand out from other acoustic guitars or does it actually have some advantages? I'm also curious if you prefer it to X bracing or not, thanks!
V-Class bracing is not just a gimmick! Taylor claims that V-Class can produce more volume and sustain with a good balance between the top's stiffness and flexibility. Which type of bracing is better is mostly a matter of personal preference. Our advice: try out both and discover what fits you best! 😊
Great video, very informative, thanks I hope to build a hybrid acoustic But should I allow the bracing to touch the sides/make slots for the bracing in the sides of the hollowed out solid body, or should the braces end, leaving a clear parameter around the edges?
Very informative video, thank you. I am building a OM guitar in spruce and rosewood and want to produce a “crisp, dry and woody” base sound. How do I shape the brasing to get that? I work with a “Martin” X brace. Thanks again Jørgen, Denmark
That's the quest many luthiers are on! It is often said that with less material, you'll get more bass response. But there are many, many ways to do the bracing, so it will be a process of testing and experimenting.
Yes, I bought the v bracing guitar and it’s not very good. so I went back to Martin and got me an HD28 adi top with standard X brace and it sounds amazing. However, in your opinion, which is better the scallop bracing regular forward shifted just for overall play be at rhythm style, etc. thank you
The forward shifted bracing allows for more bass projection so for rhythm playing it really adds a lot low end. But for other styles this could also be very valuable. It depends on the tone you're looking for. ;)
I recently purchased a fusion/crossover nylon string guitar and I noticed that the fan bracing is shifted over to the bass string side. What the benefit of moving the braces left and right as you mentioned the benefits of moving x beacing up and down. Thanks.
Belly bulge is a big problem with x types of bracing . Taylor guitars were not immune to this. My fantastic Taylor GS acoustic is now a victim of bulge. Do you think the new Tylor v bracing will help prevent the bulge problems. Those two long v rods look like they will stop this maybe ?
Hmmm I don't think so. Bulge almost always stems from humidity problems, and wood that thin just isn't capable of handling that! No matter the bracing type.
Hi Adrian! I believe v-class bracing has really improve intonation and sustain, however overtones became less complex and bass frequencies are not amazing to say the least. What are the changes that needed to be applied on the bracing so we get back those complex overtones?. I really hope Taylor do something about that. Everything else on Taylor Guitars is amazing, they are excellent in every feature, but those are my only complains (unfortunately very important ones). Great video! Very informative.
What a great video. Thanks. Question. Does the X brace mean you can use steel strings even if the headstock is a typical slotted classical guitar but with X bracing inside?
For classical Spanish guitars, lattice bracing was introduced several decades ago, and it does help the instrument refine its harmonics .. is it possible to implement it in some form on the steel string guitars?
Great question. To be honest, I'm not sure. Strength whilst remaining a light build are key for acoustics, sounds like it could be too weak for steel strings.
Our luthiers could write a complete book about this haha! In a nutshell: with a 12 fret neck, the bridge will move further away from the sound hole. Often the bracing also moves the same amount so it comes more in the center of the lower bout (but doesn't have to!). It depends on the body shape, dimensions of the body, and type of sound you're aiming for.
What is the best glue for the braces? I have one that’s loose in a 1960-70 that I just picked up. The body is solid, neck is straight but if you tap you’ll find the vibration from one loose brace. Just need the right glue. Very interesting brace info. Will have to look up construction changes by year.
I had a '64 made Gibson J-50. I don't know what type of bracing they used, but it had a booming, punchy sound and sustain that I really liked. I was forced to sell that guitar and somebody got a real prize. The $1850 I was paid for it has long been spent.
Hello Adrian! I own a Martin HD-28. (2002) Can you tell me if it's scalloped bracing or straight? I heard the scalloped bracing stopped in 1944. But it was mentioned that "HD" 28 & 40 models were still scalloped. Also, it is an Electric, factory installed. So I guess its an HD-28-E Thank you!
Very interesting Adrian, I was wondering about the wood types for the braces. I see where spruce is used for bracing. Can mahogany or just any type of spruce be used for braces. Does the Spruce need to be Adirondack or Sitka spruce, for the Braces? is all spruce wood good for Bracing? Thanks, Russell
Hey Russel, Maarten here over at TFOA. Using different tonewoods than Spruce is nothing out of the ordinary. Spruce is definitely the most common, but Mahogany and Cedar are used as well. Although there are certain tonewoods that don't make fantastic braces ;)
Most flat-topped guitars are the same in terms of durability. A ladder-braced guitar would be the 'weakest' but nothing to worry about, also a classical fan-braced guitar could be considered 'weak'. But guitars are made to last :)
Obsessing about bracing then weakening the Soundboard structurally by drilling a row of Six-6mm holes across the middle of the Soundboard and Bridge, (close together), to accommodate Bone, (or plastic), Pins on Western guitars why not use `Trapeze-Tailpieces´ like Django Rheinhart had on his guitar. Long-term, Pins cause bowing of the Soundboard or loosening of the Bridge, they seem like an inferior compromise of material structurally weakening and acoustically dampening the Soundboard with subsequent costs and early replacement being the result. One can stamp a brass trapeze tailpiece. One should aspire to build guitars to outlast one's self! Hardwoods are too finite a substance to waste. Nice Visual Aid, doesn't show the Holes though! Why is that?
@@thefellowshipofacoustics Lacing Pin Holes in the middle of the soundboard are a design flaw used to; denigrate the guitar sound over time, sell new guitars, and make work for Luthiers.
What I wonder is, how many guitars did CF have to make until he thought had the sound he wanted and understood the mechanics. Must have been a huge amount of trial and error and lots of failed guitars.
Thanks a million, that was the best discussion of bracing I've ever heard. You guys are real pros.
Thank you! Always happy to help :)
Thanks for this amazing resource
Scalloped bracing = less stiffness = more volume
Stiffer unscalloped = more sustain and less volume
Glad to help!
I haven't found anybody explain bracing the way you did.
Many thanks.
You're welcome! 😃
Dry clear and informative
Glad I came across you
Happy Xmas 24
Adrian! You nailed this lesson. Thanks so much for taking the time to break it down for Charlie Brown! I appreciate it. So complex but your delivery is very comprehensive. Awesome!
*I propose you try bamboo instead for bracing because it allows you to thin it down to about 1/16 of an inch, enabling more vibration while remaining strong enough to safeguard the soundboard. Merry Christmas to you*
Merry Christmas to you as well! :)
Excellent lesson on bracing. As someone who is hoping to make a guitar, this was seriously informative on the guitar top. There is not much information on this, so thanks for putting this up.
Glad to help Patrick! Good luck (& fun) with building :)
Wonderful explanation, short and sweet. I'm a new owner of. 2019 Martin D-18 and i love to understand the technical and physics aspects of my beautiful instrument. Thanks for sharing.
Outstanding! (And underrated, like a lot of true expertise.)
excellent Adrian. I have shared it among the pupils of my HTL School for stringed Musical instruments in Hallstatt / Austria. One little - interesting thing. Kalamazoo is not always the best example for ladder bracing, maybe either Kay, Harmony etc. As you might remember, the Kalamazoo KG21 of my father, for which you built new sides, had a combination of ladder bracing and cross bracing..... I measured that same guitar, explained how it possibly could have been designed by Gibson - measures loosly based on the older Gibson L00 etc - measuring all possible distances, vonstructing circles and seeing the relations between the dadius of the circles etc and also explaned the bracing. The Kalamazoo has an X bracing with some rudiments of ladder bracing, very interesting design, which still sounds and holds up very well, ever since 1937! Best wishes Adrian and thanks for the good work!
Thanks for sharing! Adrian sends you best wishes as well! 😄
That's what I love about Martin. That rich, warm sound. Taylors are known for their bright sound, but I've heard/seen a 314ce Taylor and 50th Anniversary 814ce that sound warmer with good mids than most of the other Taylors and am considering one of these 2. The 814ce has a V-bracing. How does that affect the tone?
You can read about the effects of V-bracing in our blogpost here: www.tfoa.eu/en/blog/blogs-2/taylor-s-new-v-bracing-vs-the-standard-x-bracing-119
This was extremely informative! Thank you for sharing this!
You're very much welcome Thomas!
Love the way your accent has changed, love your work. ❤️
Search for curfed bracing in US patents. Curfed braces can be used with any bracing patterns. They would accomodate the top to vibrate better than the regular braces.
I suspect you mean kerfed.
Very interesting!! Thanks for the video!
Thanks for watching!
Hey Adrian. Thanks a lot. This Video answered all of my questions rearding Guitar bracing
Take care. Mike
Glad to help Larry!
Tell me more about cedar and spruce. Thank you!
My guitar teacher told me he liked the warm tones from a cedar topped guitar I bought. It DOES have warm pleasant tones, I agree. But, I wasn’t able to choose spruce (as I wanted). My life’s battle-24/7-365- is righteously questing for guitars that grant equality to all six strings. Through various testing methods, you can find out which strings are your guitar’s favourite children. For FAR too much of my life, I’ve lived with the A string and the wound E dominating, and I am DONE with that sh**. Spruce is stiffer & brighter, and its treble- love CAN sound ugly. I admit it. But your high E and your B string are less likely to get lost. I believe (excluding all other factors for the sake of this talk) that spruce is usually more egalitarian regarding wound & unwound strings. Wound-string “squeek” is louder with spruce, but that’s not the guitar’s fault: we ALL should be practicing our playing to avoid / eliminante that. For me-personally-I’d trade or exchange cedar’s warmth for spruce’s articulate clarity.
Sir! I need to replace or install additional Number 1 brace. Which wood and size should I use? String moved up because the brace is bent down. Thanks.
Good info.Could you do a video on choice of woods different companies used for bracing.
Martin's gradual tapering of the bracing towards the side edges is rather because the areas of the top, approaching the side edges, is gradually receiving support from being fastened to those sides. The sound (resonant top vibration) would be correspondingly deadened if the bracing weren't tapered there. This way, it keeps its linearity of vibration amplitude across the top, which is very important for balanced sound across the spectrum. That's why he's added extra bracing on the bass side, for another example. The 'stone dropped in the water,' implies that there is somehow a significant lessening of vibration moving away from the bridge, owing to wood damping it. While this is a relatively minor consideration, the bracing would be carved, if that were the primary factor, to emulate the inverse square law all the way from the bridge plate. It is not. Voila.
Really liking this series
Good to hear Joris! We'll keep them coming ;)
Wow thank you so much for this video!
Great one! Could you please spell out the name of this luthier making parlour guitars with ladder bracing? You mention him at 2:36, but my french ear can't hear that name ;-)
Waterloo! We just received a used model from 2017 with ladder bracing! --> www.tfoa.eu/nl/waterloo-wl14-l-sunburst-2017.html?sqr=waterloo&
Thank you for your presentation. Could you get into discussing the size or thickness of the braces and how it affects tone in your next video? Again thanks.
Great explanation Adrian.👍
Great education........... thank you.
@thefellowshipofacoustics
Can a 70s "Norlin era" Gibson J50 be re-braced with a Martin X pattern ad a way to improve tone and volume?
That woud be a very difficult and costly job.
As a lefty, I also look at right handed guitars to switch over to left handers. How does the bracing affect that? tx
Hey Mark, great question! Wether it makes a difference is debatable, some people think it does whilst some think it doesn't. But looking at the facts, bracings aren't symmetric and on paper this will affect the sound.
@@thefellowshipofacoustics Tx, that's what I always thought, it should make a difference. I had it done a couple of times, and still have an old Yamaha FG75 waiting for it, or not, I don't know, while having shied away from a couple of '70s (cheap) D18s, because I had doubts how it would work out.
@@MarkJVSomers the bracing will make little difference on a FG75 with it's laminate top. Saddle intonation and nut slots need to be reversed along with pickguard.
Hey thanks for the video! Q: Do you think that taylors V bracing is more of a gimmick to stand out from other acoustic guitars or does it actually have some advantages? I'm also curious if you prefer it to X bracing or not, thanks!
V-Class bracing is not just a gimmick! Taylor claims that V-Class can produce more volume and sustain with a good balance between the top's stiffness and flexibility. Which type of bracing is better is mostly a matter of personal preference. Our advice: try out both and discover what fits you best! 😊
Great video, very informative, thanks
I hope to build a hybrid acoustic
But should I allow the bracing to touch the sides/make slots for the bracing in the sides of the hollowed out solid body, or should the braces end, leaving a clear parameter around the edges?
Very informative video, thank you. I am building a OM guitar in spruce and rosewood and want to produce a “crisp, dry and woody” base sound. How do I shape the brasing to get that? I work with a “Martin” X brace. Thanks again Jørgen, Denmark
That's the quest many luthiers are on! It is often said that with less material, you'll get more bass response. But there are many, many ways to do the bracing, so it will be a process of testing and experimenting.
Yes, I bought the v bracing guitar and it’s not very good. so I went back to Martin and got me an HD28 adi top with standard X brace and it sounds amazing. However, in your opinion, which is better the scallop bracing regular forward shifted just for overall play be at rhythm style, etc. thank you
The forward shifted bracing allows for more bass projection so for rhythm playing it really adds a lot low end. But for other styles this could also be very valuable. It depends on the tone you're looking for. ;)
Thanks Adrian, very helpful and well explained👍🏾
I recently purchased a fusion/crossover nylon string guitar and I noticed that the fan bracing is shifted over to the bass string side. What the benefit of moving the braces left and right as you mentioned the benefits of moving x beacing up and down. Thanks.
Belly bulge is a big problem with x types of bracing . Taylor guitars were not immune to this. My fantastic Taylor GS acoustic is now a victim of bulge. Do you think the new Tylor v bracing will help prevent the bulge problems. Those two long v rods look like they will stop this maybe ?
Hmmm I don't think so. Bulge almost always stems from humidity problems, and wood that thin just isn't capable of handling that! No matter the bracing type.
Great video, Adrian!!!
Thanks!
Hi Adrian! I believe v-class bracing has really improve intonation and sustain, however overtones became less complex and bass frequencies are not amazing to say the least. What are the changes that needed to be applied on the bracing so we get back those complex overtones?.
I really hope Taylor do something about that. Everything else on Taylor Guitars is amazing, they are excellent in every feature, but those are my only complains (unfortunately very important ones).
Great video! Very informative.
What a great video. Thanks. Question. Does the X brace mean you can use steel strings even if the headstock is a typical slotted classical guitar but with X bracing inside?
Hey, yes it does! X-bracing isn't the only bracing type that will fit slotted headstocks or steel strings, but in this case you're correct ;)
What about lattice bracing.
Why do the braces always appear to be linear, rather than a mix of linear and curved shapes? There's not many other linear contours on a guitar.
i'm kind of surprised you didn't mention the most superior bracing: lattice bracing
We mainly tried to focus on western-guitar bracings :)
Thank you for your education about guitar bracing. Could you explain about C class bracing?
So do you like the Taylor V class stuff vs the martin d28 for example?
I personally don't like the taylor v class bracing.
Nah
For classical Spanish guitars, lattice bracing was introduced several decades ago, and it does help the instrument refine its harmonics .. is it possible to implement it in some form on the steel string guitars?
Great question. To be honest, I'm not sure. Strength whilst remaining a light build are key for acoustics, sounds like it could be too weak for steel strings.
Yeah you can use lattice bracing on steel strings. I know Batson guitars use them on at least some models.
How does the bracing change in guitars with 12th fret neck to body joints?
Our luthiers could write a complete book about this haha! In a nutshell: with a 12 fret neck, the bridge will move further away from the sound hole. Often the bracing also moves the same amount so it comes more in the center of the lower bout (but doesn't have to!). It depends on the body shape, dimensions of the body, and type of sound you're aiming for.
What do you think of the River song guitars?
Thank you very much for sharing! So pro!
Very informative. Thanks for that.
You're welcome!
What is the best glue for the braces?
I have one that’s loose in a 1960-70 that I just picked up. The body is solid, neck is straight but if you tap you’ll find the vibration from one loose brace. Just need the right glue.
Very interesting brace info. Will have to look up construction changes by year.
Original titebond works great. Unless the guitar was originally built with hot hide glue, then use that, not bottled hide glue.
I had a '64 made Gibson J-50. I don't know what type of bracing they used, but it had a booming, punchy sound and sustain that I really liked. I was forced to sell that guitar and somebody got a real prize. The $1850 I was paid for it has long been spent.
Probably "standard" bracing. The tone of a J50 comes from the shape, the top thickness and the scale.
very informative. Thank you
Thanks for the compliment Mario :)
Hello Adrian! I own a Martin HD-28. (2002) Can you tell me if it's scalloped bracing or straight? I heard the scalloped bracing stopped in 1944. But it was mentioned that "HD" 28 & 40 models were still scalloped. Also, it is an Electric, factory installed. So I guess its an HD-28-E
Thank you!
99% sure it's scalloped! :)
@@thefellowshipofacoustics Thank you!
What purpose has the piece of tape in the middle of the X?
That's just something for this demo piece!
What about double X bracing? Does it affect response/volume as compared to single X bracing (Martin)?
Very interesting Adrian, I was wondering about the wood types for the braces. I see where spruce is used for bracing. Can mahogany or just any type of spruce be used for braces. Does the Spruce need to be Adirondack or Sitka spruce, for the Braces? is all spruce wood good for Bracing? Thanks, Russell
Hey Russel, Maarten here over at TFOA. Using different tonewoods than Spruce is nothing out of the ordinary. Spruce is definitely the most common, but Mahogany and Cedar are used as well. Although there are certain tonewoods that don't make fantastic braces ;)
@@thefellowshipofacoustics Thanks Maarten.
I did enjoy that. Cheers
Thx Mike, cheers!
😊 great video
Thanks Robert :)
is there a difference in terms of durability? which one is the weakest/strongest?
Most flat-topped guitars are the same in terms of durability. A ladder-braced guitar would be the 'weakest' but nothing to worry about, also a classical fan-braced guitar could be considered 'weak'. But guitars are made to last :)
@@thefellowshipofacoustics nice, thank you!
Thank you so much!
whats the mm of the top
Hey! It varies a lot per guitar and guitar maker. Also it depends on what spruce you want to use :)
Your couch is perfectly fine!!!!!
Best video ever
Damn, thanks!
Geweldige video!
Dankjewel Nick!
I love a heavy relic custom shop as much as the next man, but the relicing on that rory gallagher sofa is just too much.
Hahaha, we're not ready to give up on this couch yet :p
Obsessing about bracing then weakening the Soundboard structurally by drilling a row of Six-6mm holes across the middle of the Soundboard and Bridge, (close together), to accommodate Bone, (or plastic), Pins on Western guitars why not use `Trapeze-Tailpieces´ like Django Rheinhart had on his guitar. Long-term, Pins cause bowing of the Soundboard or loosening of the Bridge, they seem like an inferior compromise of material structurally weakening and acoustically dampening the Soundboard with subsequent costs and early replacement being the result. One can stamp a brass trapeze tailpiece. One should aspire to build guitars to outlast one's self! Hardwoods are too finite a substance to waste. Nice Visual Aid, doesn't show the Holes though! Why is that?
These soundboards are simply meant to show what's underneath the top, so which braces and in what pattern. And the bridge plate is also there! 😉
@@thefellowshipofacoustics Lacing Pin Holes in the middle of the soundboard are a design flaw used to; denigrate the guitar sound over time, sell new guitars, and make work for Luthiers.
The guy nextdoor had a tighter baught in the waist now he has Egg Gas
You need a new couch......
It’s brand new. Relic’d .
@@williamb4652taylor experimenting with relics
Looks like all the nauga came off your naugahyde
It's just Hyde now 🤣
What I wonder is, how many guitars did CF have to make until he thought had the sound he wanted and understood the mechanics. Must have been a huge amount of trial and error and lots of failed guitars.
Interesting question! Maybe it was a 'happy accident'... :p
Taylor's V bracing sucks really bad.
The most over rated guitars! The cheapest Martin with fake wood beats any taylor guitars
i need to drop the electric for one of those