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- Опубликовано: 29 авг 2024
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Here Gavin Ashenden talks with Larry Chapp about the Papacy, the upcoming Synod and the liturgy wars going on in the Church today,
Pope Francis often signals left and turns right, causing ambiguity which leaves the faithful in a state of confusion.
#jesuschrist #catholicchurch #catholicmass #liturgy #theism #christian #popefrancis #tradition
Catholic Unscripted is a light in the darkness. I am so grateful for these three courageous Catholics and this comment is from an Orthodox Catholic.
Yes. Spread the word about Catholic Unscripted! Not to be missed!
‘ Real ecumenism is bringing people home to our Catholic Church ‘ amen..
Orthodox here. What good awaits us in the Novus Ordo Church? None.
Woke is NOT of Jesus
No, it is cultural marxism, arguably the roots lay in the Kabbalah which is from you know where. Dr. Deep State the tube channel is good on this.
No...he hated making people feel good about themselves!
You have got it so, so wrong.
@@marygunning5121 Utter drivel.
@@paddymeboy I am not the only one who thinks what I say. perhaps what you think is drivel.
@@paddymeboy Who hated people feeling good about themselves.? Marx. His roots are very interesting. The apple does not fall far from the tree.
So illuminating. Yes, secularism is far more damaging than we realize.
I'm not sure how much more damage secularism could do than what the current pope has already done.
"Ecumenism should be about making other people Catholic." Well said.
Gavin you are so spot on I wonder why you didn't make the leap to Catholicism years ago. Deo Gratias.
Ideally he should (and may) make the leap to the Holy Orthodox Church.
Oe better yet, the leap away from T-pronouncing
@@marcokiteGavin is a Papal Protestant. He’s far from Orthodox imo. Unless he gets his head round the fact that the Filioque clause is a travesty and needs to go the Orthodox Church will always be alien to him.
The more Larry Chapp the better
Amen!
Two of my favorite-knowledgeable communicators. Please do this again!! You have so much to convey.
I agree with every Gavin has said. As a cradle catholic,
I live close to a very good Anglican ordinariate church within 20 miles of me. I go to the TLM in the middle of a very bad neighborhood inside the city instead. Even though there is great reverence there at the AO church I just can’t wrap my head around the priests being allowed to marry.
Also, there have been so many prayers that were taken out of the mass after Vll. I need the preist to pray more for me than less. He is turned to God asking for mercy for my sins and I need the strongest prayers on earth. At the TLM I feel I am getting those graces. Thank you for this interview! God Bless.
Bravo! The only manner of improving the discussion would be to include Mark and Katherine! ❤
Much love to you both.
Very interesting conversation. I was dipping into the Ratzinger Report (1984) recently and was struck by the phrase "interpretation of the Council". This is what marks the last council and separates it from the others, its lack of clarity. Previous councils majored in making a half decent effort to be accurate and clear in the documents it published. It is worth noting that at least one peritus at the last council admitted that ambiguous phrases had been included in the various documents deliberately in order to facilitate or allow for more liberal interpretation. During the Council Cardinal Heenan ventured to say that he hoped that the documents issued by the Council would not end up being interpreted by their authors, the periti. That is of course exactly what happened!
Love this! My first listen. I think that the Church has much more of the living out of the Passion to go yet, even after Francis, to the point of the death, the tomb and the the catacombs which will be relived until She rises again in such holiness. with her Christ after her purgation.
Great host. Great guest!
I returned to the church precisely because Catholicism asks a lot from me. Converts and returnees ask only that Catholicism be Catholic. There are over 40,000 Christian denominations to meet the needs of the others.
Fascinating discussion. Let’s hope we outlive the present bishop of Rome and his Vatican bureaucracy.
Very educational and powerful talk. It’s great to see Catholicism discussed at a level which allows even me to both understand and debate the subject. How exciting that the truth hasn’t changed one iota, only that we understand more and more of the depth and beauty being given to us by the Holy Spirit.
One of your more enjoyable, important, and thoughtful discussions. Thanks to both of you!
The problem I have come to realise with the NO Diocese's and Liturgy is if you attend it you are forced into a position where you will have no choice but to accept everything this current Papacy has decreed, stated and enforced.
What do I mean by that and why shouldn't we accept all of the above?
Simply this. I was of the mind that both The NO and TLM are both valid and on an equal footing with Rome as is reception of Communion ( either in the hand or kneeling and on the tongue ).
I would consider my local NO as a reverent Mass with the exception of a guitar mass or gospel choir once a month. It allows both ways of receiving Holy Communion. However last Sunday when the prayers of the faithful commenced, one pray went as follows more or less like this;
' For those who suffer from homophobia or bigotry to come to understand the fullness of GOD's creation '!
Do you see the problem? They are slipping this stuff into The NO under the radar in disguise of a prayer.
You see I didn't invent homophobia, neither did anyone else who agrees with Church Doctrine and is obedient to the teachings of Jesus and The Apostles.
This so-called prayer indicates that GOD's creation includes more than just male and female who were created to go forth and multiply. It changes the Truth into a lie by indicating that there are other anomalies or relationships created by GOD outside of male and female together.
The worst of all about this is that it changes the Truth in favour of worldly ideologies inspired by the devil and we need conversion to not be homophobic, to accept the lie and normalise it.
Since Fiducia Supplicans opened the bowels of hell which have been spilled into the modernist ideology in The Catholic Church and The NO is now the chosen mechanism to promote this evil agenda.
I don't think the next successor to Pope Francis will reverse anything, but rather push the modernists agenda further down our necks. This is the main reason I believe why they want to cancel The TLM as there is no room to maneuver their agenda going forward. Your choice will be either you submit to the modernist ideology in the Church or you are not in it.
It's a very dangerous situation right now for souls and many cannot or do not want to see the writing on the wall
I will only attend The TLM from here on as that disgrace in my local church has now shown me the real agenda behind all of this.
CS Lewis.....Screwtape Letters is invaluable !
What I don't understand in all of this is, when did the noticeable categories of liberal and conservative theologians become a thing?
It strikes me that ambitious people have taken over in all areas of the church, to the extent that neither humble laity nor clergy are recognised. These ambitious theologians are aiming their arrows at the centre of our faith. What they don't appear to understand is that there is nothing new under the sun. Are they swimming around in a soup of competing perspectives where concepts have eclipsed percepts, do they no longer see nor hear. Gavin alluded to the fallacy of the open mind, which i will venture to say has lead to all these ambitiously competing perspectives. We ought to have just one perspective and make it wide, thus widening the perspective, not the path.
Brilliant. Intelligent. Honest. Informative. Simplifying. Clarifying. Thank you.
We could make a huge and conclusive case for the value and goodness and truth of the Catholic Church. But we did that, and the world mostly did not listen. And the world would not listen now. So in love how do we act in that situation?
So happy that you both love C.S. Lewis - he may have saved my faith when I was a teenager.
Dale Ahlquist, founder of the Chesterton Academies here in the US also says Lewis would’ve become a Catholic.
I remember reading that, but I don’t remember what was holding him back because I know he was good friends with JRR Tolkien
Of course Lewis would be Catholic.
Sinclair Lewis? Why does that matter?
A woman once told me " Do you really think papal encyclicals are written for women in the third world?"
Actually such women usually know and live their faith better than the current leaders of all the churches.
Yes there was a time when encyclicals were written in technical language for a theologically educated few. However there is a vast difference between Orthodox theology and Catholic theology on basic concepts of living a holy life, like divinization and the end things. There are vast differences between various Protestant ideas and Catholic theology on issues like Our Lady, wealth obtained through prayer, faith and works etc.
We simply cannot meet on the same playing field because we are playing different games.
Synodality simply means that lobby groups with the loudest voices get a seat, and real Catholics both rich and poor get ignored and silenced. If anyone is getting dumbed down it is the ordinary Catholic believer.
Thank you!
Interesting but I still don't know what synodality is. When I was a kid were told that Catholic means universal. And as far as I can tell synodality is something like the opposite of universal.
A tour de force ! Thank you both.
i find this papacy is self absorbed and egotism of me myself and I.
I think we need to ask what kind of Holy Mass God prefers. I doubt it’s the NO.
Do not think we can judge God's mind in this way.
It will be the Mass of the Ages that has been guided by the Holy Ghost for nearly 2000 years. Not the one that was drafted on a paper napkin.
The Pope ,Cardinals, and Bishops need to watch this Video and they need speak with Gavin because he was once on the left and shifted more to the right but not super Trad.He is i think were our clergy needs to be . Excellent Video.i My self prefer the Latin Mass. If our Pope Cardinals and Bishops go woke they are going go Broke.
I too, remember the 80's being only 20 or 25 years ago, surely...... oh my!
Just brilliant 😮
exactly!! i have no idea what parishes believe anymore. the TLM does exactly that. gives the focus for holiness. and common belief which everyone in the community believes is true, beautiful and genuine.
Anyone setting out to produce a long document will expect and perhaps hope that it will be poorly understood.
In the Lord's Prayer we say "Hallowed be thy name", which means that we ought to recognise God's holiness and approach Him in awe and reverence and respect and love, and approach in the same way "what is his" like the Church, the liturgy, the Sacraments, the sacred books, spaces, vestments, etc etc
yes!! a better pope!! tired of the reducing truth to oblivion.
Synodality is superfluous in the way it is presented. In the Catholic Church there are the councils of the (local) Bishops, and there are the Ecumenical Councils too (with Bishops from all over the world). These are the provisions that steered the Boat of Peter until now, and there is no reason to devalue or underestimate their efficacy now
.
Gavin, I think your comparison of the Orthodox with blackmailers is out of order!
YES they HAVE adopted the woke language and they ARE linguistically ambidextrous. That's the very game they play.
To the vloggers of Catholic Unscripted: Greetings! Your understanding and use of the word "woke" demonstrates your lack of knowledge of the Catholic Social Teaching (CST) and the unmindful and uncritical following of the ultraright smear campaign which tag social justice activists as "woke" taken as a pejorative dirty word, and in the process perpetuate social injustices. The word "woke" originated as slang for "awake" specifically meaning aware, conscious, and passionate about addressing social injustices, specifically in the original case - racial and economic injustices. CST leads us to take Scripture more deeply which paints God specifically as "woke" in this original and right sense of the word, for example: "The Lord is a God of Justice" (Isaiah 30:18); Jesus inaugurated his public ministry by envisioning his mission to consist in works of social justice, "to bring Good News to the poor, proclaim liberation to captives, recovery of sight to the blind, let the oppressed go free...." (Luke 4:18) Jesus is woke, so do we his followers need to be. When you call Pope Francis "woke," in your ignorance and distaste for him, you actually portray him the ideal way all of us Catholics need to be likewise.
Mentioning the "language in the Vatican" I would take it further and say that it becomes very clear, for any theologian to have a good knowledge of Greek and Latin is a necessity, not an option, so neologisms like "synodality" will not become a catch word to "murk the waters" so to speak.
ask prottys if they care that the Catholic Church survives. 🤔🤔🤔curious cradle Catholic. honest answer only.
Lex Orandi, Lex Credendi, Lex Vivendi.That is the reason "they" use the Novus Ordo and wish to destroy the Roman Catholic Mass. Viva Christo Rey!!!!
Ah more elderly men afraid they’ll loose their cushy spots in the church so they have to fight every pastoral effort.
the goal of pope francis remains to be seen.
I worry we may get more of the same or worse for the next pope. One that may welcome the beast as savior.
I pray that is not the case but God’s will be done. Maranatha!
The claims of the Orthodox to leadership within Orthodoxy can be schematically laid out as follows: Constantinople is the New Rome, therefore must be the "first"; Moscow is the Third Rome, so they must be the "first". So, their reference remains THE SEE OF ROME.
There is rivalry but co-operation is scant...
I'm evidently a non-sophisticate! I didn't understand the Irish joke. Could someone please explain?
The idea that in asking for directions you would be given the advice not to start from here suggests two things. Firstly the place that you were in is not one that is going to easily allow you to travel to where you want to go -in other words you’re starting from the wrong place, or in conversation from the wrong presupposition; but secondly, in practice there isn’t any way you can’t start from where you are so that is not helpful. But it may suggest that the journey can’t even be made.
the sad component of calling young people who recognize genuine sacredness in the latin form of mass, psychotic, is the same thing as calling a liberalist who reduces truth to anything will do as an acceptable behaviour. both are trying to find and make the sacred again.. the lost soul is the one who strives toward the sacred, the genuine truth, the God who is Trinity.
man crouched to set, thence slithered to perdition. I dare not look.
I do think calling norvus ordo only kindergarten level is unfair ! Latin Mass should also be honored !
Let’s call it watered down, man focused then.
I sense Dr Ashenden's thinking on liturgy is still evolving. It certainly isn't identical with Dr Chapp's thinking.
@revelation1215 So St JPII and Benedict XVI gave us baby food? I must remember when I'm serving at a Requiem Mass tomorrow that it's inferior.
exactly!! a very cunning manipulative way to sway ordinary faithful people into a false sense of charity hence the document FS by the DDF to affirm homosexual blessings in a manipulative way of words to explain differences but affirm sameness.
we need a better liturgy than the guitar reviles and the silly dance and the absolute clown sermons
You refer Fr. Rob Esdale no doubt.
Orthodox here. You wanted a all powerful Pontifical monarchy. Why do you complain?
Kyrie eleison.
Hence why there is no unity in the Orthodox Church.
The alternative would seem to be synodality, or something the same, and the fuss is in great part over the Pontifical monarch wishing to effectively abdicate. A more nuanced criticism might go farther.
FSSPX
without music and a serman.. is true that it is thevest.
Another Vatican 11 Pope, are you two really serious?????????? Sancta Maria Ora Pro Nobis.
So many drama queen commentators looking inward rather than going out and spreading the good news.
You refer to Jorge and his henchmen I assume.
Yes, yet how do we then, get to Dublin?
They do love their own voices.
Horrendous waiting music.
Bisop maaligaa sinhalata bisop maaligaava
Joke pope
Every time I hear the words journey and accompaniment I feel like getting nauseous. They just seem like the modern-day buzzwords
Christ in his journey to the cross was accompanied by his mother, Mary.
@@oliverclark5604 touche
Much better to desert and abandon!
So Gavin has his own kind of 'derangement syndrome', he gets triggered (I guess) by an objective, logical, historical objection to the heresy of papal infallibility.
Time for Orthodoxy Gavin!!
☦
Which orthodox church? 😂
Francis is not a Pope!
Are you a Catholic? If so, your statement makes you schismatic.
'Gaudiam et spes' - neither of them things that you people believe in, clearly.
Jorge and his crusade against the Traditional Catholic Liturgy is enough to make a Saint lose joy and hope!!!
the sad component of calling young people who recognize genuine sacredness in the latin form of mass, psychotic, is the same thing as calling a liberalist who reduces truth to anything will do as an acceptable behaviour. both are trying to find and make the sacred again.. the lost soul is the one who strives toward the sacred, the genuine truth, the God who is Trinity.