I just want to say how much I appreciate your interpretations of the data you collect. A lot of the more “scientific” reviewers tend to assume their audience understands how the data translates to what we hear. I also appreciate that you provide use case examples based on the strengths and weaknesses of a product. It seems obvious but a lot of consumers and even “professional” reviewers just don’t seem to consider a use case. Akin to a car reviewer or a consumer complaining that a sports car has an uncomfortable ride or a luxury car can’t handle well on a race track. Engineers typically make good products and I rarely see bad products. What often happens is the marketing team decides to target a demographic that might be more profitable but doesn’t suit the product. I’ll stop rambling, but thanks again for all your really helpful and honest content!
Thank you very much for starting the amp measurements! I think that 1khz vs multitone power is very clever, i have never seen this test on ASR. I also noted that they are starting to use your test of relative frequency response change at different spl for speakers. Please keep it up with passion and creativity as always!
Ah, ASR the land of 1k sinad determining what is best. The hoard over there will argue until death that a DAC is a DAC, and a $20 DAC is better than a $1k DAC based on 1 measurement.
@@juicebox853 and people will dream. Plug the power cable in with a cryogenic treated fuse. Get an ethernet audiophile switch and some cable lifters. 😂
Love your reviews on loudspeakers. Objective and subjective are blended nicely to give us a valuable direction. Looking forward to you building up a strong amp review database! Maybe a comparison of 2-3 Amps at around 1000 dollars/euro would be a nice next one!
I didn’t realize how important EQ was until I started tinkering with the PEQ in my WiiM. I figured “oh to have the highest quality you have to run everything flaaaaat” but then realized that to be a poor stance. Kicked in a little low and boom we’re sitting happy as a clam.
I liked it so much I bought a second WiiM amp and pair of LS50s. I have one in the bedroom and one near field at my desk. It doesn’t get super loud but we never listen at more than 85db anyway. That apartment life !
Erin, Not sure you realize this, but multitone signals have a higher crest factor than a single sine wave. If you drive the amp to almost clipping with a multitone signal, the average power is necessarily lower than if you use a single sine wave (exactly half in the case of a 1:1 two-tone IMD test). From a power perspective, multitone tests are easier than sine waves.
I believe higher crest factor in effect means more peak power is required for the same RMS power. Hence your last sentence should be exactly the opposite of what it is. The higher the crest factor the more demanding of power. Erin's test is a good indicator of peak power capability. I think you are confusing cause and effect here.
@@razisnNo actually I am correct in my comments above and discussed this topic last year with Bruno Putzeys from PuriFi over a year ago when I bench tested one of his amp designs. I don't use multi-tone testing for power as a result. I do single tone sweeps as well as CEA-2010 burst testing. That's a pretty standard way of amplifier testing in the industry by professionals.
@Audioholics I'm sorry, but, as I said, your last sentence above does not follow from your, indeed correct, first two sentences. Higher crest factor is more demanding of the amp, not less. Hence an amp may not be able to produce its max rated RMS power when fed with a higher than 1 crest factor signal, as is the case here, unless it has great peak power reserves. Any signal engineer, including Putzeys, will tell you that. You make it sound like a signal with higher crest factor makes less power demands from the amp where in fact it is exactly the opposite. You don't have to use this test for checking peak power of course, there are standardised tests for this. This test though is a good indicator (not measurement) of an amp's peak power ability in relation to its RMS power measured at 1kHz as standard.
@olics I'm sorry I don't know what average power is. I understand RMS power and peak power. If you look at Erin's test you will see the amp can sustain its RMS power at low power demand in the multitone test. This is because it has power reserve at that power level. If you were right it would produce less RMS power vs the 1kHz test, even in this unstressful case. At max power demand though it cannot sustain it. For me it is clear as glass. I still think you are confusing cause and effect. You think the amp produces less than its rated RMS power because there is no demand for it, I think that it produces less than its rated RMS power because it can't produce more under this test. Let's agree to disagree. You think you are correct in your last sentence, I think you're viewing things upside down. Until we get a test of an amp with better power reserves (peak current ability) than this one to compare, we will not have proof of who's right here.
PEQ should be a standard functionality of modern audio equipment. Such a small thing to add that is more valuable than anything else they can fit in the box.
that's so true .. the big problem is there's these "purists" that think that using EQ is a no no, which is really sad because even if you have the perfect system, if you compare recordings, every recording doesn't necessarily function best with that "no EQ" situation.
It could be a blessing and a curse. Someone who is not experienced with good sound might be inclined to adjust it to the smiley face shape. They may think it sound better when it's actually worse.@@shipsahoy1793
I would imagine that for most manufacturers it wouldn't be an easy thing to do. Many of them are strictly hardware companies and would have to outsource the development of software or pay licensing fees to utilize an existing software. It would likely be a significant cost to them and probably increase the amount of after sale support too. I'd like to see it happen too though.
@@JosephTongret Well certainly for the first implementation might be tricky to some, but many have apps and streaming support etc included so it ought to be a relatively small addition in those situations.
Hi Erin. I'm fully on board with the need for EQ in 2 channel listening for two basic reasons: 1. Room acoustics is a dark science and no one no matter who they are will get it perfectly. Even perfection itself is a moving target. 2. Recording quality varies significantly just as no 2 studios are the same, no 2 engineers, no equipment, no two pairs of ears are the same. Best is to have passive treatment augmented with active such as DSP. Wiim ought to put a preamp out in next version. This should solve any drive issue with current hungry speakers. Keep up the good job!
Andrew Robinson needs to watch and learn. Context is important toward setting reasonable expectations, and you nailed it! For the price, there’s nothing that even comes close. It’s simple to use and also highly tweakable for those who are so inclined.
Ya I actually unsubscribed to Andrew Robinson a while back. He and his never seen girlfriend come across very snobbish . They also are heavy handed if you make a comment that differs at all from their view point. I remember once that he refused to review the Sony sscs 5 bookshelf speaker because he thought it was inferior to waste his time on…. Snob city big time.
For higher power we can add a WiiM Pro Plus to a power amp, or a WiiM Pro to a DAC + power amp and keep the same excellent software. But WiiM should eventually release a higher power amp based on Hypex or Purifi too imo. Thanks for the great review! Very interesting take on single tone versus multi tone power.
While I agree and do exactly this for bedroom vs living room setups, the all-in-one nature of the Amp makes the bedroom system a breeze to operate which definitely keeps my wife happy! By the time Wiim creates a bigger, more powerful version (with its associated price increase) then they are quickly approaching making a full AVR and all the additional complexity that comes with it and quickly deteriorating the value proposition over the likes of Denon, Onkyo, etc.
@@mdfrick I somewhat agree. Adorama recently had/has the Onkyo TX-NR6050 7.2-Channel 8K Network AV Receiver On Sale for $299 ($329 Off MSRP). ...90 WPC output (200 WPC "Dynamic", which I'd be curious to see how a test would determine this), but quite a bit more functionality overall, with built-in Streaming/Or use other streaming apps, Tuner, Phono Turntable preamp input, More HDMI/Analog/Digital Inputs, Subwoofer Out, etc. It's definitely a larger box, but a lot more versatile IMO for the price. It depends on your use case scenario.
... At this point you may as well get something like Bluesound Powernode? But I guess you'll lose out on some equalization features. And people online complain everyday about BluOS (even though it's perfectly serviceable). Ultimately, you can find a solid vintage integrated AB amplifier for $300 and add a Wiim Pro.
Wow a perfect review. I honestly mean that. I feel like I got all the technical info I needed , and didn't get from other reviewers, and also your honest thoughts on the product while being fair about it's price point and not comparing it to a $5K amp. I have nothing to ask just praise, awesome review Erin!
I was thinking the same thing. I imagine offloading the duties 80Hz and up (or whatever crossover you want) would go a long way in minimizing the demand.
@@johnsmith-i5j7i While I agree that this might help a bit, and I usually suggest it as well, realistically, don't expect too much gain by doing this. It wil depend on several factors, but on average, don't expect to gain more than a few dB. This amplifier already has some inherent "output limiting" going on in its design.
Excellent review Erin.I got one of these for Christmas and put in my Daughter's bedroom system (Alexa Dot and NHT Super Ones). Your description is spot on. Amp sounds good, I was expecting a bit more output for the rated power and the EQ allowed me to address a few room/speaker issues. I would not make this my one an only, but for a bedroom, dorm room or 2nd system it is a good choice. Special thumbs up for the aluminum case, app, remote with mic, subwoofer out with X-over and EQ.
One heck of a review of an electronic product!! Keep them coming Brother!! I had to look as the list of videos to affirm there were no previous electronic equipment reviews!! 😂. Great explanation and layout!
Great review Erin, refreshing to not hear words like "rich" or "soundstage" overall a nice choice of "success metrics" considering most of the time you review speakers.
Brother Erin :) Nailed it, this is what we want to see, can't wait to see more electronic reviews. You aren't that far from me can load up the car and bring some Anthem products and Akitika.
This is probably a TPA3255 "chip amp" with a nice selection of potentially useful "bells and whistles" on the input side -- as such, it's a pretty decent value and surely the EQ feature can be used to mitigate any FR irregularities that turn out to be audible. It's not something I personally have any use for, but it's certainly an impressive little product for a wide range of use cases -- and it certainly provides a good deal more "bang for the buck" than something like the $800 PS Audio Sprout100.
It is a TPA3255 ... but I suspect they're using current limiting (pin 7) to mitigate a thermal problem with all that electronics jammed into such a small case.
Agree on the PEQ becoming a valuable and easy to include function. As it already has a subwoofer output, it wouldn’t hurt to include buffered pre-amp outs for an upgrade path.
Avr have more power, can run 5.1 or 7.2 for little more money, decode atmos. Better sound quality. For 500$ can buy yamaha rx-v6a for 400$ yamaha rx-v4a. It's very good on stereo also. Specially in beamp mode if have proper large front speakers
@@fedurrrass4226 yeah, but as I said the WiiM is not as large, which in modern day is a huge selling point. Also, biamp mode actually is less powerful than standard mode (confirmed with Denon/Marantz, they said they add it because people want it). 100W into treble and 100W into bass is nearly identical to 100W into full bandwidth. Also, AVRs lose wattage the more channels are active, Marantz for instance is 80% for 5ch (meaning if 100W for 2ch it’s 80W for 5ch), as such biamp mode is actually less powerful.
Great idea to test the power rating with multi-tone vs a single tone! Thanks for that addition providing great real-world AND technical review. I have this integrated amp paired with KEF R3 Metas in my office (Yes, I know it is a mismatch and will eventually move it to replace the soundbar in my bedroom.) I compared it to the SMSL AO300 (thanks Amazon!). My main mode of playback is DLNA over Ethernet using the Asset UPnP server and Bubble UPnP app on Android. (The WiiM app is great, but I mostly use it for device configuration.) My take is the AO300 is better sounding (especially via Bluetooth LDAC which the WiiM does not support) with more connectivity, power, and format/CODEC support than the WiiM. IMO the WiiM is market focused on regular consumers, not audiophiles or engineers (and I am in firmly in both camps). Even, so I kept the WiiM because it supports a subwoofer with adjustable high-pass to the speakers, it has a modest PEQ, and better device and mobile app software support (AO300 has no mobile app). WiiM SW support is automatic and happens behind the scene. SMSL required downloading and installing a driver from a DOS shell. As an engineer, this wasn't anything new or difficult, but neither is it where the market is today. I listen to this setup daily in both near-field and 6' distances in my office. The power is adequate for that. On compressed albums it gets louder than I care to listen. On audiophile full dynamic range albums, I wish I could turn it up louder. Overall, I enjoy the WiiM and the music it brings to the office. Even though it has limited I/O and power, for $300 I found it to compelling to pass up.
I’m not in the market for an amp…that being said…I was anxious to see what Erin had to say about this affordable amp… and I was not disappointed… I’m no longer a “newbie” nor do I consider myself an audiophile…but I have learned over the years that ya gotta be careful which Hi-Fi RUclipsr’s to trust…so for those who are here to research this amp…and U like what Erin had to say…I feel very confident that U can trust what this man has to say…just my humble opinion… we appreciate ya Erin!
Reading over the comments, I think we need to talk about reasonable expectations. These devices are clearly MID-FI ... they're intended for people like me who never "crank it up" and don't expect concert level playback in wildly sound absorbing rooms. Reviewers over time have created the impression that unless an amp or speaker can reach ear-bleed levels, with perfect dispersion and no distortion, they aren't good enough... and that simply is not true. If it will reach a reasonable sound level (70 to 80dba) with inaudible distortion it will be plenty good enough for about 90% of the population. I use TPA3255 based amps in my main system. I don't do concert levels because I have neighbours, and I like keeping my hearing. I've never felt these amps are lacking... although some are better implemented than others on a technical level. Has Erin found a major flaw in the Wiim Amp ... probably not. He has discovered an amplifier that will suit the needs of millions of living room and bedroom installations perfectly ... but like most smaller amps (75 watts or less) it's not going to give you concert level output (90+dba) in a large listening room. I have no doubt the Wiim amp, like it's TPA3255 brethren, was created with the "average user" in mind... with little or no intention of meeting the goals of audiophiles. Like it or not Audiophilia is a fringe hobby... Nobody is building reasonably priced gear for you, if you want to play the big game you're gonna get stuck with the high prices.
@@ErinsAudioCorner Sure thing. I will not be buying one but if asked I will be happy to evaluate one for a friend or client. I've heard one at a neighbour's house and it's a pretty decent little setup. He runs it in his living room where it seems to meet their needs just fine. It appears to be the guys expecting to hook this up in their dedicated listening rooms and replace $100,000 systems that are be dumping on it. But then, they dump on most everything... so no surprises there.
I am pretty happy with mine, I have Kef R3 Metas and a monolith thx sub with crossover set at 80hz. I was planning on moving it to the bedroom and replacing it with the Wiim Ultra when it comes out(Q2) and drive the r3's with Fossi Za3 mono blocks. I listen from 75-85 decibels at 9 feet and it hits at least 97 decibels maxed out which is uncomfortably loud for me.
Best amplifier under $1,000 🤔 Your review was thankfully missing the hype or clickbait I watch a lot of reviews and you do a great job of fact and subjective impressions. This amplifier is not for me at present but knowing Wiim I expect continued improvements
If you use a subwoofer, and say a 150Hz or 200Hz DSP crossover - does that change the effective power availability enough to make it more widely applicable?
I tried to test this but I don't have the means at the moment. I'd say it is certainly plausible but that doesn't mean it's true, at least in this case.
I've got the same question. I think a lot of people have this question. If paired with a powered sub, will I be happy with the power output since presumably more power would be available for the main speakers. For testing, could you just plug an RCA into the sub out, set the crossover and measure the decibel output with the crossover engaged? (Meaning you wouldn't need a sub to test this)
I think it’s a great value option but it’s not going to compare to avr’s with power, features, connections, adjustments via eq, dsp configurations and room correction ie Dirac, mcaac, etc. Great for a bedroom or smaller room on a secondary system.
I said something similar in another comment here, but I agree...depending on your use case and the level of simplicity vs. complexity desired. Adorama recently had/has the Onkyo TX-NR6050 7.2-Channel 8K Network AV Receiver On Sale for $299 ($329 Off MSRP). It is rated at 90 WPC @ 8 ohm (200 WPC "Dynamic", which I'd be curious to see how a test would determine this), but it offers quite a bit more functionality overall, with built-in Streaming/Or use other streaming apps/protocols, a Tuner, Phono Turntable preamp input, More HDMI/Analog/Digital Inputs, Subwoofer Out, etc. But it's definitely a larger box, though more versatile for the price. It's going to depend on your use case scenario.
@@bbfoto7248 ya it does depend on use case. I currently am using 2 pioneer avr’s the Elite 504 and the Elite 103 I don’t use the built in streamer on them though I use the Bluesound Node 130 for the 504 and the Node 2i on the 103. I’m planning to get the eversolo dmp a6 master edition . I love the versatility of the avr’s they also have really good AKM dac chips in them. Wiim is good value on all their products but I doubt I’d buy one. Cheers 🍻
I was excited to get this amp but wasn’t knowledgeable enough (and hadn’t decided on my speakers yet)when I bought one to try. I think my unit wasn’t quite up to their quality specs because I had a horrendous time get it connected to wifi and the app couldn’t keep connection with the amp. In trying it out with the KEF R3 meta I ended up with based upon your req (affiliate linked used 😉) it just wasn’t doing it for me in a similar sized room (also playing into the kitchen) and needed to be returned because of the connectivity issues. Overall I think it’s gonna be a great product for a lot of people and the app features are very nice but people will need to make sure they’re aware of what they need. Great review, Erin! Glad you’re doing other hardware now.
@adame52 Just as a Side Note for others: Whenever you receive a product such as this that includes a streamer and network connectivity, etc, always check the manufacturer's website support section to see if there are any Firmware or Software Updates for the device. You or others may have received an early release unit with outdated firmware/software, and an update MIGHT help to remedy one or more of these issues. This has been my experience with many such devices in the past. They are just like your Smartphone or PC/Mac regarding updates for bug fixes and feature/functionality updates.
@@bbfoto7248 @adame52 While I agree that it is always good to check for firmware updates, it isn't necessary for the WiiM Amp as it will automatically update the firmware and let you know when a new app is available. In my experience with networking and connectivity issues, it is typically the WiFi router that needs upgrading. So if you are experiencing drop-outs first try upgrading the firmware on your WiFi router. If that doesn't work, try a new one. Finally, connection drop-outs don't happen with wired Ethernet connections, so use one if possible. This is how I am using the WiiM Amp: hard-wired with WiFi disabled in the settings.
Im on the verge of buying another bluesound device for upstairs. Have a NODE X downstairs that I love, and thinking about getting a powernode or powernode edge for a small system upstairs in my loft area. Id love to see a review of one of those.
Vielen lieben Dank für diesen aufschlussreichen, Grund soliden und vor allem objektiven Test des WiiM AMP. Mir hast du sehr bei der Entscheidungsfindung geholfen. Jetzt nach deinem Test werde ich mir ein Bluesound Powernode und nicht den WiiM AMP zulegen auch wenn dieses Gerät teurer ist. Beste Grüße aus Berlin / Deutschland
I think I could mount this on the wall behind the TV and get the receiver out of a vented cabinet. I'll have to keep it in mind. Would be better with an HDMI out for replacing a receiver.
I want to test noise but the device I’m using doesn’t have the greatest noise for. Although it is still pretty good. I might look into options for providing that.
@@ErinsAudioCorner I think Archimago and a few others started using E1DA Cosmos ADC/APU/Scaler + REW RTA with great results for a cheaper Audio precision APx555 alternative.
Nicely done Erin ... First, on load dependency ... that will be because of the output filters peaking. Class D is known for this and keeping it under 1db (i.e. inaudible) is not easy. I seriously doubt that when sitting down and listening to the amp anyone would ever hear it. Second the power on multitone ... probably a limitation of the power supply or the chip's current limiting setup. Not all TPA3255 amplifiers do this.
Yeah, I was unsure if the power with multitone is common so I checked my NAD C 3050 that I currently have in for testing. It hits 96-98 watts @ 4 ohm with MTON while the single 1kHz tone does 100w. Which is a lot less 'degradation' than this WiiM with about 30w of output loss. Still, I have to consider that the WiiM Amp is itty bitty and feature packed for only $299.
@@ErinsAudioCorner The TPA3255 chip has a programming pin for current limiting. In fully encased setups like the Wiim ... some current limiting is necessary to prevent thermal panics. This can limit both multitone power and dynamics by some small amount. Without that the 3255 chip behaves more like your c3050 but requires a pretty chunky heat sink and fan. For a comparison ... I'm using a Fosi Audio TB10D, which is also a TPA3255 chip with a pair of Pioneer fs52 towers that run about 85db sensitivity in a 12 by 24 foot room and routinely listen at 80 db. The amplifier is set to 1/3 volume (knob at 10 o'clock) and I keep the digital volume from my HTPC at about 50%. (i.e. 1/6th volume) Nobody is working hard and it's plenty loud enough. My power meters almost never get over 5 watts on either music or movies. One point to consider with multi-tone testing is that unless you are controlling the levels of each tone to mimic normal musical decay (see the Fletcher Munson curves) you are asking for a lot more power than even heavily compressed music would. Typically if you have a bass note at 60hz and a flute at about 4khz ... the flute would need about 10 to 12 db less power to sound equally loud. Above the 4,200 hz piano scale all the harmonics fall off very rapidly at 10 khz normal decay would place that at -20db.
I was really interested in this to replace a mini PC running Foobar, playing my library off an internal SSD, driving a DAC to an integrated amp in a music-only speaker rig. It would allow me to get rid of the TV attached to that to PC, the wireless keyboard, and integrated amp remote and run it all from a 10 inch tablet (bad eyes means a phone is just too small.) Unfortunately the info I find on the WiiM users or other forums to date suggests that even though it should be able to read an SSD in a USB enclosure, there are problems with initial indexing, USB drive disappearing completely, etc.. I also can find no info regarding how one can easily create playlists other than individually dragging each cut into the playlist. That's a deal breaker for me with 16,000 FLACs in roughly 1500 folders. I'm curious to know what you thought about the app. Thanks!
I doubt that cruising an external hard disk is a priority in an IOT device like the Wiim. But for playlists, if you can discover the format (most are pretty simple) that Wiim will play, you can probably create them in a text editor.
The Wiim has a nice feature set. Would be ok nearfield for me, but not enough output for my theater or music needs. Once you own some pro audio gear, you will find a lot of the consumer stuff lacks output. Erin, thanks for another great review.
If the power this unit provides is not enough and you still don't want to spend a lot, i'd say check the other wiim products and connect them to more powerful gear. Specially if you just want to stream. Same software, same features (except for the mini that is a bit more limited). Wiim ultra is soon to be released and that will have even more features.
Love it Erin! Can’t wait for more electronics reviews. As others have said the multi-tone, both channels driven test is extremely revealing. My take is that because most bass in recordings is mono and makes the most demand in power terms, this test is of upmost importance in assessing an amplifier’s performance. Regarding outright power, isn’t amazing in this day and age when 90W is considered underpowered for an average size room and average sensitivity speakers…
I was around in the 70s and 80s when all the big manufacturers were bragging about breaking the 25 watt barrier... If you have the chance, hook a pair of calibrated power meters up to your speakers and watch just how much juice actually flows in your listening sessions... Mine almost never get over 5 watts on music and might occasionally hit 10 watts on movie special effects.
Well done Erin great to see you moving into AMPs it's an excellent idea and very complementary to the technical speaker reviews. Looking forward to seeing more AMP reviews. thank you!
I'm debating between this and an SMSL AO300 + a WIIM Pro. I've got a pair of ELAC debut B6's, so they're 6ohm and this would give 90W per speaker. The SMSL AO300 would give 125W per channel. Would that actually make a material difference?
You knocked it out of the park. All of the relative information without the BS. I'm thinking power supply size on that 30 watt power drop with multi-tone only can do so much with the size and the price. If it had an external power supply that could have been easily tested but everything's a trade-off.
I think adding a powered sub should help in minimizing the output concerns. Though I think if WiiM launched a more powerful version and/or one with Pre-outs and charged more, I would buy it yesterday! If they BOTH a stronger amp (comparable to the PowerNode) and pre-outs, I'd be more than fine paying 2-3X the price.
Great review Erin. One detail I have not yet found is the nature of the output volume control. Do you know if the WiiM Amp controls volume digitally, as in the Mini, Pro or Pro+, or is the volume control an analog control of the amp output?
I love your reviews. You are one of the few people I trust. :) If Sonos had decent EQ, I wouldn't even be looking at this device. I've had 10 zones of Sonos for about 15 years and I love it. I'm moving to a new house soon and I want step up the quality on everything. My problem is that ceiling speakers sound terrible, and most of the outdoor speakers aren't much better. I suspect that many affordable speakers could sound much better with EQ. For half of my house, the Wiim amp is plenty. But outdoors, and the main living area will need more power. 4 Wiim Pros plus an 8-channel 250w Buckeye amp is still cheaper than 4 Sonos Amps, even after my 30% loyalty discount. So 10 zones of Wiim (6 amps, and 4 pros) would be $6200. 10 Sonos amps with the 30% discount would be $4900, but there would be no PEQ. To try to use Sonos ports with a mini DSP and an amp would cost a small fortune and be a big mess in the rack and harder to use than the Wiim. I guess the best solution is to spend stupid money on good ceiling speakers and stay with Sonos. I still have a few months to decide.
Thanks for this, Erin! Really informative and objective. I'm a WiiM Amp user and can attest to your findings regarding the power of the Amp - in smaller spaces, you don't lack power at all. I've stepped down from an Atoll IN100 amp and, although Atoll is clearly a better amp, I don't feel the little WiiM hasanything much to be ashamed of, especially for 5x less money. One more observation: I switched from my usual QA 3020i's to a borrowed pair of CSS 1 TD-X's and noticed a significant rise in sound quality. That is telling me that a pair of higher-quality, not-too-bright speakers is in order. Best regards, Vlada
Hi! This was very informative. Would you review a decent "vintage" AB amplifier? I am saying this because the used market is flooded with 80s, 90s and 2000s AB amplifiers (some of which are sold under $100). I reckon that manufacturers are price gouging consumers for modern features like streaming, HDMI eARC etc... These features can be added through an external streaming DAC. Note that American/Japanese brands like Marantz, Pioneer, Technics or Yamaha command a higher price for hype reasons. British brands (Creek, Rega, Musical Fidelity, Arcam, NAD etc...) offer tremendous value.
I think this looks excellent, but with a slightly underpowered amp for some circumstances. So what’s needed is a WiiM Pre-amp; exactly the same, but let’s you choose your own amp. And if you want something g with moderate power, then the Fosi Audio V3 is there for you. Want something more? Buy a bigger amp. But this is a great front end, from streamer, through EQ, through DAC, through bass management.
@@don1946 So Don... Do you have subwoofer capability with this setup and furthermore does that Wiim product allow you to access the equalization program on their app? Thanks!
Excellent!!! This review, your first off this type, was FANTASTIC!!!! MORE PLEASE!!!!! Did you say there was a crossover built in to the Wiim software/app?
Thanks! Yes, when you engage the subwoofer output, you can adjust the crossover from 30 Hz to 250 Hz. The crossover slope is not adjustable but the frequency is.
@@ErinsAudioCorner Sorry, I meant to specify, is there a hi-pass filter for the speakers? Thank you so much for your reply! Made my day! I really enjoy your review and am soo happy you are back and better than ever!
Purchased in order to move Bluesound Powernode to another room. HDMI ARC was DOA so it's going right back. WiFi worked well but power is so-so even handing lows to sub. Oh well!
Could you please tell me what speakers do you use? And what did you finally decide to get instead of Wiim? Another Powernode looks like a good investment here
I appreciate the talk about actual use case, why people might say this or that. Who the product is for, who it's not for.. I do find the approach to measurements obscure maybe? It's still very interesting, But its hard to relate these measurments to other amps. (Unless you assume we are going to hunt down other sources for the more common measurements.)
I’ll provide measurements. The thing that matters is what I’ve provided, though. Now you know a) does the speaker change the response of the amp (yes, it can) and b) does this make rated power and are there any caveat to that power rating (yes, and yes). 👍 Now that you know this information, you can find an online calculator to determine if this is enough power to get the volume level that you want for your room. 💪
ALthough those small amps are not for me I appreciate you reviewing more stuff as I trust your objectivity and there's not a lot of that online these days..
Sub out not working even though the high pass works when toggled on the app. No EQ on Bluetooth out. And tons and tons of lag over Bluetooth are some of the things I found on day one. It would have been too good to be true otherwise. Hope they fix it because I love the ability to room EQ among other features.
For $250.00 more, I can buy a Pioneer VSX-LX305 for $529.00 plus tax from Adorama. From a cost perspective I can't agree. Plus Dayton Audio has a tube A/B amp with HDMI and 100 WPC for $50.00 bucks more than this Wiim. And I'll take a class A/B amp over a class D any day of the week. Just my opinion.
The Onkyo TX-NR6050 AVR was/is also On Sale at Adorama for $299 and is much more versatile, 90 WPC @ 8-ohms for the front channels, but admittedly a much larger box.
Don't Scott Wilkinson things to death, i.e. explaining the obvious... a 300 buck do-all box should not be on the radar of those with large rooms/speakers, or high SPL and Godzilla bass requirements. Keep up the [otherwise] good work Erin.
Great video! Do you think integrating a subwoofer with a pair of bookshelf speakers could make it into the living room without affecting sound quality?
great vid but a little unclear for me on how to think toward the data. did you hear an inherent treble/air/ 20kh ish boost then (compared to an amp that tests flatter, both given a control source / song), would be a great way to confirm that data set as audible. i didn’t think amps could affect frequencies so much. if it’s brighter sounding i don’t think i’d care for it.
The tpa3255 is close as makes no difference to being dead flat in response. The only serious deviation is well above 20khz and, unless you're a bat, you ain't never gonna hear it. (Most people only hear from about 40hz to 14khz)
The features on these Wiim devices are crazy! I got the Amp first but decided to go with the Pro Plus and a separate amp, not because I needed it, but just because I could. I was impressed that you could change the output voltage on the Pro Plus; 2v, 1v, etc and then cap the max volume to exactly match the input of your amp.
Wow. Just wow. Erin - the depth of your investigation and measurements is second to none. I much more prefer the measurements you've done to a much more well established reviewers in this field. Very well done.
You need data from as many sources as possible, it's just got to be good reliable data. Otherwise you end up buying power cables, special interconnects and cable lifters. Oh and ethernet switches, the audiophile ones.
Aaron Tuchardt @ Cascade Audio posted a brief comparison of WiiM amp vs an older Onkyo AVR rated 75 Watts. The WiiM amp can not deliver rated power compare older AVR of similar rated power. The sound quality from the WiiM amp is wimp. A good old A/B amp is the way to go for quality sound.
For single use in a smaller room, this hobbyist's amp is hard to beat. Ease of use with streaming services and integration with TV sound is its greatest strength. It is a good representative the direction audio technology is progressing to. For those who want significantly more power, consider its predecessor, the Sonos Amp. No I don't work for Sonos and I'm not a fanboy of the brand but the Sonos Amp provides 120 Watts/ch in 8 ohms and can be expanded into an integrated whole home audio system controlled by the most intuitive app on the market. Sonos also has plenty of useful tricks that have not been reliably duplicated by other whole-house audio system
one problem I had with the WiiM was lack of bass , was comparing 2 pairs of speakers with the WiiM and SONOS AMP ,at fairly high listening volume, and the WiiM was very bass thin , even when I cranked the bass EQ up.Not sure what that was , but it was a very obvious difference.perhaps with a subwoofer it won't matter.
Something to try ... instead of turning up the bass, turn down the mid and treble. If the amplifier (any amplifier) is close to it's power limits, turning things up is likely to lead to clipping, literally demanding more than it can give. The minimal result of this will be an increase in distortion without an increase in loudness, in extreme cases is can generate a lot of harmonic content that is known to damage tweeters.
I think my mistake was to try different speakers with different amps , for the lack of a switch box that's all I had at that time. probably not a fair comparison @@Douglas_Blake_579
I was shocked with how low the output was... its really niche use cases. A kitchen radio with impressive quality stats :P but useless to real audiophile type listening. Subjective but I was super disappointed.
went with the russound ava31 instead of the wiim... the Wiim is a bit too thick to mount behind a tv and no center channel. Not too many reviews on the russound system
Thanks for the video. Appreciate you adding amp reviews to your armamentarium. The fact that you are buying is helpful as are your measurements and listening comments. Rock on Erin!
Really good review, you are on to something by looking into amp performance with both simple and complex signals. Most other reviewers do not have this ability or your expertise in speaker design and interface. You picked a fun little amp to review as it is so versatile. Would like to know how the stereo amp performs when in 2.1 channel mode with lows filtered at about 80 Hz.
Thanks. I had a subwoofer connected and was quite happy with it. Being able to adjust the crossover on the app from the seat is excellent. Makes dialing the crossover frequency in much easier.
Can someone tell me: Does this amp offer a L/R balance control? I need a small form factor amp with balance control and it's been incredibly difficult to find one that offers that basic feature. Can the balance be adjusted in the app?
Thanks very much for the info, Erin! Looks like I may have found my amp. (As long as, that is, the balance you set remains constant, vs re-setting each time you use the app). @@ErinsAudioCorner
Hey Erin, Is this streamer capable of combining multiple units into a zone audio solution? Is it capable of connecting to a computer via the usb to use as an amp/DAC combo for passive speakers to step up my near field PC listening experience?
Great review with great tests. So when you set the sub crossover point, it's feeding the mains a signal above that? So not just a crossover point for the sub, but also the mains? I am shocked at all they put into this amp. I would like to see their next amp to provide twice the power and 2 sub outputs - very important for those running subs up past 80 hz. Those are the only two issues I see, except overall sound quality.
The general consensus on this product seems to be that you CAN do better with separates, but the convenience of the Wiim Amp is through the roof for the right application. Separates: Wiim Mini, SMSL SU-1 DAC, Fosi V3 amp, HDMI converter if needed. Thats like $250 to $300 and I'm sure sounds and tests better (based on great numbers for the V3). Probably the biggest issue I see with the low power of the Wiim Amp is that for a compact system, you're likely to use compact, cheaper, high draw speakers. It's an odd design in that sense. I'd be quick to recommend the Dayton 402x with the Wiim Amp as a killer sub $400 system, but the Dayton is like 81db sensitive... so I'd have to recommend the separates. It's not till you get to an 87 or 88db sensitive 5" monitor (with mediocre bass tuning) that things get reasonable. NEEDING to add a sub is an oversight for an amp designed for compact systems. Those Daytons will put out useful bass, but need power to do it. They should package it with an outboard power supply (I hate that I just said that) or make the box big enough to produce a true 50 wpc.
Instead of the WIIM Mini and SU-1 the WIIM Pro plus. Get the Fosi ZA3 instead, because it has a sub out and can be used in Mono PBTL mode. You have a better upgrade path that way. You can add a second ZA3 and a separate DAC later. It will cost you 70 bucks more but you are getting more and better power out of the bat. Alternatively the Aiyima A07 MAX. (No sub out tho)
Boom. Or get an SMSL a300 integrated amp. You dont even need a dac or streamer for a while becasue of nice BT connection. It has remote, hipass crossover and full sub out.@@D1N02
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I just want to say how much I appreciate your interpretations of the data you collect. A lot of the more “scientific” reviewers tend to assume their audience understands how the data translates to what we hear. I also appreciate that you provide use case examples based on the strengths and weaknesses of a product. It seems obvious but a lot of consumers and even “professional” reviewers just don’t seem to consider a use case. Akin to a car reviewer or a consumer complaining that a sports car has an uncomfortable ride or a luxury car can’t handle well on a race track. Engineers typically make good products and I rarely see bad products. What often happens is the marketing team decides to target a demographic that might be more profitable but doesn’t suit the product. I’ll stop rambling, but thanks again for all your really helpful and honest content!
Could you please make a short video on how to use peq?
See if this helps.
Budget Stereo Systems You Will Love
ruclips.net/video/6GcFznDiJQU/видео.html
Thank you very much for starting the amp measurements! I think that 1khz vs multitone power is very clever, i have never seen this test on ASR. I also noted that they are starting to use your test of relative frequency response change at different spl for speakers. Please keep it up with passion and creativity as always!
Ah, ASR the land of 1k sinad determining what is best. The hoard over there will argue until death that a DAC is a DAC, and a $20 DAC is better than a $1k DAC based on 1 measurement.
@@juicebox853 and people will dream. Plug the power cable in with a cryogenic treated fuse. Get an ethernet audiophile switch and some cable lifters. 😂
Love your reviews on loudspeakers. Objective and subjective are blended nicely to give us a valuable direction. Looking forward to you building up a strong amp review database! Maybe a comparison of 2-3 Amps at around 1000 dollars/euro would be a nice next one!
I didn’t realize how important EQ was until I started tinkering with the PEQ in my WiiM. I figured “oh to have the highest quality you have to run everything flaaaaat” but then realized that to be a poor stance. Kicked in a little low and boom we’re sitting happy as a clam.
We all like our big bottoms
I use the WiiM amp in the bedroom powering LS50 metas and a Martin Logan Dynamo 400 sub. The HDMI Arc makes it sooooo good for that application.
How do you like the ls50 with wiim amp?
I liked it so much I bought a second WiiM amp and pair of LS50s. I have one in the bedroom and one near field at my desk. It doesn’t get super loud but we never listen at more than 85db anyway. That apartment life !
Erin,
Not sure you realize this, but multitone signals have a higher crest factor than a single sine wave. If you drive the amp to almost clipping with a multitone signal, the average power is necessarily lower than if you use a single sine wave (exactly half in the case of a 1:1 two-tone IMD test). From a power perspective, multitone tests are easier than sine waves.
I believe higher crest factor in effect means more peak power is required for the same RMS power. Hence your last sentence should be exactly the opposite of what it is. The higher the crest factor the more demanding of power. Erin's test is a good indicator of peak power capability. I think you are confusing cause and effect here.
@@razisnNo actually I am correct in my comments above and discussed this topic last year with Bruno Putzeys from PuriFi over a year ago when I bench tested one of his amp designs. I don't use multi-tone testing for power as a result. I do single tone sweeps as well as CEA-2010 burst testing. That's a pretty standard way of amplifier testing in the industry by professionals.
@Audioholics I'm sorry, but, as I said, your last sentence above does not follow from your, indeed correct, first two sentences. Higher crest factor is more demanding of the amp, not less. Hence an amp may not be able to produce its max rated RMS power when fed with a higher than 1 crest factor signal, as is the case here, unless it has great peak power reserves. Any signal engineer, including Putzeys, will tell you that. You make it sound like a signal with higher crest factor makes less power demands from the amp where in fact it is exactly the opposite. You don't have to use this test for checking peak power of course, there are standardised tests for this. This test though is a good indicator (not measurement) of an amp's peak power ability in relation to its RMS power measured at 1kHz as standard.
@@razisnagain read my comment about average power, not peak power. It's correct.
@olics I'm sorry I don't know what average power is. I understand RMS power and peak power. If you look at Erin's test you will see the amp can sustain its RMS power at low power demand in the multitone test. This is because it has power reserve at that power level. If you were right it would produce less RMS power vs the 1kHz test, even in this unstressful case. At max power demand though it cannot sustain it. For me it is clear as glass. I still think you are confusing cause and effect. You think the amp produces less than its rated RMS power because there is no demand for it, I think that it produces less than its rated RMS power because it can't produce more under this test. Let's agree to disagree. You think you are correct in your last sentence, I think you're viewing things upside down. Until we get a test of an amp with better power reserves (peak current ability) than this one to compare, we will not have proof of who's right here.
PEQ should be a standard functionality of modern audio equipment. Such a small thing to add that is more valuable than anything else they can fit in the box.
that's so true .. the big problem is there's these "purists" that think that using EQ is a no no, which is really sad because even if you have the perfect system, if you compare recordings, every recording doesn't necessarily function best with that "no EQ" situation.
It could be a blessing and a curse. Someone who is not experienced with good sound might be inclined to adjust it to the smiley face shape. They may think it sound better when it's actually worse.@@shipsahoy1793
I would imagine that for most manufacturers it wouldn't be an easy thing to do. Many of them are strictly hardware companies and would have to outsource the development of software or pay licensing fees to utilize an existing software. It would likely be a significant cost to them and probably increase the amount of after sale support too. I'd like to see it happen too though.
@@JosephTongret Well certainly for the first implementation might be tricky to some, but many have apps and streaming support etc included so it ought to be a relatively small addition in those situations.
Separate PEQ for left and right channels is really needed
Hi Erin. I'm fully on board with the need for EQ in 2 channel listening for two basic reasons:
1. Room acoustics is a dark science and no one no matter who they are will get it perfectly. Even perfection itself is a moving target.
2. Recording quality varies significantly just as no 2 studios are the same, no 2 engineers, no equipment, no two pairs of ears are the same.
Best is to have passive treatment augmented with active such as DSP.
Wiim ought to put a preamp out in next version. This should solve any drive issue with current hungry speakers.
Keep up the good job!
Andrew Robinson needs to watch and learn.
Context is important toward setting reasonable expectations, and you nailed it! For the price, there’s nothing that even comes close. It’s simple to use and also highly tweakable for those who are so inclined.
You're right. His review was so odd.
I pretty much quit watching the videos of most other reviewers once I discovered Erin's channel.
Context is key. I otherwise found Robinson to be way too high brow.
nah let him continue to be like an rc willies sales person i say
Ya I actually unsubscribed to Andrew Robinson a while back. He and his never seen girlfriend come across very snobbish . They also are heavy handed if you make a comment that differs at all from their view point.
I remember once that he refused to review the Sony sscs 5 bookshelf speaker because he thought it was inferior to waste his time on….
Snob city big time.
For higher power we can add a WiiM Pro Plus to a power amp, or a WiiM Pro to a DAC + power amp and keep the same excellent software. But WiiM should eventually release a higher power amp based on Hypex or Purifi too imo. Thanks for the great review! Very interesting take on single tone versus multi tone power.
While I agree and do exactly this for bedroom vs living room setups, the all-in-one nature of the Amp makes the bedroom system a breeze to operate which definitely keeps my wife happy! By the time Wiim creates a bigger, more powerful version (with its associated price increase) then they are quickly approaching making a full AVR and all the additional complexity that comes with it and quickly deteriorating the value proposition over the likes of Denon, Onkyo, etc.
Word is they are working on a WiiM Ultra. Amp or preamp don't know. Have a WiiM pro plus into a Fosi V3 amp. great little combo.
@@mdfrick
I somewhat agree. Adorama recently had/has the Onkyo TX-NR6050 7.2-Channel 8K Network AV Receiver On Sale for $299 ($329 Off MSRP).
...90 WPC output (200 WPC "Dynamic", which I'd be curious to see how a test would determine this), but quite a bit more functionality overall, with built-in Streaming/Or use other streaming apps, Tuner, Phono Turntable preamp input, More HDMI/Analog/Digital Inputs, Subwoofer Out, etc.
It's definitely a larger box, but a lot more versatile IMO for the price. It depends on your use case scenario.
... At this point you may as well get something like Bluesound Powernode? But I guess you'll lose out on some equalization features. And people online complain everyday about BluOS (even though it's perfectly serviceable). Ultimately, you can find a solid vintage integrated AB amplifier for $300 and add a Wiim Pro.
@@user-xg6zz8qs3q true but you won't have a sub out w/crossover
Wow a perfect review. I honestly mean that. I feel like I got all the technical info I needed , and didn't get from other reviewers, and also your honest thoughts on the product while being fair about it's price point and not comparing it to a $5K amp. I have nothing to ask just praise, awesome review Erin!
Well, I really appreciate that.
Adding a powered subwoofer would go a long way towards addressing the power deficit. Most power is needed down low hence the powered subwoofer.
I was thinking the same thing. I imagine offloading the duties 80Hz and up (or whatever crossover you want) would go a long way in minimizing the demand.
Yup and since speakers are lower impedence at lower frequencies that will help a lot. Mine go down to 2.8ohm
@@johnsmith-i5j7i
While I agree that this might help a bit, and I usually suggest it as well, realistically, don't expect too much gain by doing this.
It wil depend on several factors, but on average, don't expect to gain more than a few dB. This amplifier already has some inherent "output limiting" going on in its design.
Excellent review Erin.I got one of these for Christmas and put in my Daughter's bedroom system (Alexa Dot and NHT Super Ones). Your description is spot on. Amp sounds good, I was expecting a bit more output for the rated power and the EQ allowed me to address a few room/speaker issues. I would not make this my one an only, but for a bedroom, dorm room or 2nd system it is a good choice. Special thumbs up for the aluminum case, app, remote with mic, subwoofer out with X-over and EQ.
That is awesome!
One heck of a review of an electronic product!! Keep them coming Brother!!
I had to look as the list of videos to affirm there were no previous electronic equipment reviews!! 😂.
Great explanation and layout!
Great stuff, so good to see you venturing into new areas where some honesty is much needed.🙂
As for the WIIM, for it's cost it darn impressive.
Great review Erin, refreshing to not hear words like "rich" or "soundstage" overall a nice choice of "success metrics" considering most of the time you review speakers.
Thanks Erin. I believe you misspoke when describing the 8 ohm frequency response, saying it peaked at "+6dB". Should be +0.6 dB, looks to me.
Great review and totally different to most (if not all) other reviews, and therefore very valuable.
Thanks for reviewing!
Brother Erin :) Nailed it, this is what we want to see, can't wait to see more electronic reviews. You aren't that far from me can load up the car and bring some Anthem products and Akitika.
Thanks, man! Those sound good to me! :)
This is probably a TPA3255 "chip amp" with a nice selection of potentially useful "bells and whistles" on the input side -- as such, it's a pretty decent value and surely the EQ feature can be used to mitigate any FR irregularities that turn out to be audible. It's not something I personally have any use for, but it's certainly an impressive little product for a wide range of use cases -- and it certainly provides a good deal more "bang for the buck" than something like the $800 PS Audio Sprout100.
It is a TPA3255 ... but I suspect they're using current limiting (pin 7) to mitigate a thermal problem with all that electronics jammed into such a small case.
For $300 and not as big as an AVR it is indeed a great value.
Agree on the PEQ becoming a valuable and easy to include function. As it already has a subwoofer output, it wouldn’t hurt to include buffered pre-amp outs for an upgrade path.
Avr have more power, can run 5.1 or 7.2 for little more money, decode atmos. Better sound quality. For 500$ can buy yamaha rx-v6a for 400$ yamaha rx-v4a. It's very good on stereo also. Specially in beamp mode if have proper large front speakers
@@fedurrrass4226 yeah, but as I said the WiiM is not as large, which in modern day is a huge selling point.
Also, biamp mode actually is less powerful than standard mode (confirmed with Denon/Marantz, they said they add it because people want it). 100W into treble and 100W into bass is nearly identical to 100W into full bandwidth. Also, AVRs lose wattage the more channels are active, Marantz for instance is 80% for 5ch (meaning if 100W for 2ch it’s 80W for 5ch), as such biamp mode is actually less powerful.
Great idea to test the power rating with multi-tone vs a single tone! Thanks for that addition providing great real-world AND technical review.
I have this integrated amp paired with KEF R3 Metas in my office (Yes, I know it is a mismatch and will eventually move it to replace the soundbar in my bedroom.) I compared it to the SMSL AO300 (thanks Amazon!). My main mode of playback is DLNA over Ethernet using the Asset UPnP server and Bubble UPnP app on Android. (The WiiM app is great, but I mostly use it for device configuration.) My take is the AO300 is better sounding (especially via Bluetooth LDAC which the WiiM does not support) with more connectivity, power, and format/CODEC support than the WiiM. IMO the WiiM is market focused on regular consumers, not audiophiles or engineers (and I am in firmly in both camps). Even, so I kept the WiiM because it supports a subwoofer with adjustable high-pass to the speakers, it has a modest PEQ, and better device and mobile app software support (AO300 has no mobile app). WiiM SW support is automatic and happens behind the scene. SMSL required downloading and installing a driver from a DOS shell. As an engineer, this wasn't anything new or difficult, but neither is it where the market is today.
I listen to this setup daily in both near-field and 6' distances in my office. The power is adequate for that. On compressed albums it gets louder than I care to listen. On audiophile full dynamic range albums, I wish I could turn it up louder. Overall, I enjoy the WiiM and the music it brings to the office. Even though it has limited I/O and power, for $300 I found it to compelling to pass up.
I’m not in the market for an amp…that being said…I was anxious to see what Erin had to say about this affordable amp…
and I was not disappointed…
I’m no longer a “newbie” nor do I consider myself an audiophile…but I have learned over the years that ya gotta be careful which Hi-Fi RUclipsr’s to trust…so for those who are here to research this amp…and U like what Erin had to say…I feel very confident that U can trust what this man has to say…just my humble opinion…
we appreciate ya Erin!
Simple rule ... No measurements? It's *advertising*
Reading over the comments, I think we need to talk about reasonable expectations.
These devices are clearly MID-FI ... they're intended for people like me who never "crank it up" and don't expect concert level playback in wildly sound absorbing rooms.
Reviewers over time have created the impression that unless an amp or speaker can reach ear-bleed levels, with perfect dispersion and no distortion, they aren't good enough... and that simply is not true. If it will reach a reasonable sound level (70 to 80dba) with inaudible distortion it will be plenty good enough for about 90% of the population.
I use TPA3255 based amps in my main system. I don't do concert levels because I have neighbours, and I like keeping my hearing. I've never felt these amps are lacking... although some are better implemented than others on a technical level.
Has Erin found a major flaw in the Wiim Amp ... probably not. He has discovered an amplifier that will suit the needs of millions of living room and bedroom installations perfectly ... but like most smaller amps (75 watts or less) it's not going to give you concert level output (90+dba) in a large listening room.
I have no doubt the Wiim amp, like it's TPA3255 brethren, was created with the "average user" in mind... with little or no intention of meeting the goals of audiophiles. Like it or not Audiophilia is a fringe hobby... Nobody is building reasonably priced gear for you, if you want to play the big game you're gonna get stuck with the high prices.
Agreed. It's a great piece of gear for most people. I'm actually buying this review sample to use in my bedroom.
@@ErinsAudioCorner
Sure thing. I will not be buying one but if asked I will be happy to evaluate one for a friend or client. I've heard one at a neighbour's house and it's a pretty decent little setup. He runs it in his living room where it seems to meet their needs just fine.
It appears to be the guys expecting to hook this up in their dedicated listening rooms and replace $100,000 systems that are be dumping on it. But then, they dump on most everything... so no surprises there.
This seems like a good device for a Studio Apt. setup 👌
We need PEQ and a highpass in all amps!!! Also wished this has a pre out, that would solve all power problems.
I use the WiiM Pro Plus streamer for the EQ function- so, so useful.
I am pretty happy with mine, I have Kef R3 Metas and a monolith thx sub with crossover set at 80hz. I was planning on moving it to the bedroom and replacing it with the Wiim Ultra when it comes out(Q2) and drive the r3's with Fossi Za3 mono blocks. I listen from 75-85 decibels at 9 feet and it hits at least 97 decibels maxed out which is uncomfortably loud for me.
Great review Erin! Looking forward to more electronics review from your channel!
Best amplifier under $1,000 🤔
Your review was thankfully missing the hype or clickbait
I watch a lot of reviews and you do a great job of fact and subjective impressions.
This amplifier is not for me at present but knowing Wiim I expect continued improvements
If they made those cascadable so you could do multi channel crossover it would be fantastic.
Excellent - You have a different take on amplifier reviews, one which adds to our understanding.
Glad it was helpful!
Remember that 90W vs. 120W is just over 1dB. Most people would never even notice the difference in maximum output.
Indeed.
So when the WiiM Pro Plus gets the HDMI input, we are golden.
If you use a subwoofer, and say a 150Hz or 200Hz DSP crossover - does that change the effective power availability enough to make it more widely applicable?
I tried to test this but I don't have the means at the moment. I'd say it is certainly plausible but that doesn't mean it's true, at least in this case.
I've got the same question. I think a lot of people have this question. If paired with a powered sub, will I be happy with the power output since presumably more power would be available for the main speakers. For testing, could you just plug an RCA into the sub out, set the crossover and measure the decibel output with the crossover engaged? (Meaning you wouldn't need a sub to test this)
I think it’s a great value option but it’s not going to compare to avr’s with power, features, connections, adjustments via eq, dsp configurations and room correction ie Dirac, mcaac, etc.
Great for a bedroom or smaller room on a secondary system.
I said something similar in another comment here, but I agree...depending on your use case and the level of simplicity vs. complexity desired.
Adorama recently had/has the Onkyo TX-NR6050 7.2-Channel 8K Network AV Receiver On Sale for $299 ($329 Off MSRP).
It is rated at 90 WPC @ 8 ohm (200 WPC "Dynamic", which I'd be curious to see how a test would determine this), but it offers quite a bit more functionality overall, with built-in Streaming/Or use other streaming apps/protocols, a Tuner, Phono Turntable preamp input, More HDMI/Analog/Digital Inputs, Subwoofer Out, etc.
But it's definitely a larger box, though more versatile for the price. It's going to depend on your use case scenario.
@@bbfoto7248 ya it does depend on use case.
I currently am using 2 pioneer avr’s the Elite 504 and the Elite 103 I don’t use the built in streamer on them though I use the Bluesound Node 130 for the 504 and the Node 2i on the 103. I’m planning to get the eversolo dmp a6 master edition . I love the versatility of the avr’s they also have really good AKM dac chips in them.
Wiim is good value on all their products but I doubt I’d buy one. Cheers 🍻
I was excited to get this amp but wasn’t knowledgeable enough (and hadn’t decided on my speakers yet)when I bought one to try.
I think my unit wasn’t quite up to their quality specs because I had a horrendous time get it connected to wifi and the app couldn’t keep connection with the amp. In trying it out with the KEF R3 meta I ended up with based upon your req (affiliate linked used 😉) it just wasn’t doing it for me in a similar sized room (also playing into the kitchen) and needed to be returned because of the connectivity issues.
Overall I think it’s gonna be a great product for a lot of people and the app features are very nice but people will need to make sure they’re aware of what they need.
Great review, Erin! Glad you’re doing other hardware now.
@adame52
Just as a Side Note for others:
Whenever you receive a product such as this that includes a streamer and network connectivity, etc, always check the manufacturer's website support section to see if there are any Firmware or Software Updates for the device.
You or others may have received an early release unit with outdated firmware/software, and an update MIGHT help to remedy one or more of these issues.
This has been my experience with many such devices in the past. They are just like your Smartphone or PC/Mac regarding updates for bug fixes and feature/functionality updates.
@@bbfoto7248 @adame52
While I agree that it is always good to check for firmware updates, it isn't necessary for the WiiM Amp as it will automatically update the firmware and let you know when a new app is available. In my experience with networking and connectivity issues, it is typically the WiFi router that needs upgrading. So if you are experiencing drop-outs first try upgrading the firmware on your WiFi router. If that doesn't work, try a new one. Finally, connection drop-outs don't happen with wired Ethernet connections, so use one if possible. This is how I am using the WiiM Amp: hard-wired with WiFi disabled in the settings.
Im on the verge of buying another bluesound device for upstairs. Have a NODE X downstairs that I love, and thinking about getting a powernode or powernode edge for a small system upstairs in my loft area. Id love to see a review of one of those.
Vielen lieben Dank für diesen aufschlussreichen, Grund soliden und vor allem objektiven Test des WiiM AMP.
Mir hast du sehr bei der Entscheidungsfindung geholfen.
Jetzt nach deinem Test werde ich mir ein Bluesound Powernode und nicht den WiiM AMP zulegen auch wenn dieses Gerät teurer ist.
Beste Grüße aus Berlin / Deutschland
I think I could mount this on the wall behind the TV and get the receiver out of a vented cabinet. I'll have to keep it in mind. Would be better with an HDMI out for replacing a receiver.
Absolutely love your amp testing methods.
Noise floor is really important to me.
Multitone power output results were surprising.
Thank you!!!
I want to test noise but the device I’m using doesn’t have the greatest noise for. Although it is still pretty good. I might look into options for providing that.
@@ErinsAudioCorner I think Archimago and a few others started using E1DA Cosmos ADC/APU/Scaler + REW RTA with great results for a cheaper Audio precision APx555 alternative.
This amp fit my needs for a sound bar replacement that is used for music only. Wiim amp, Polk XT60 tower, Emotiva SE8 subwoofer.
Nicely done Erin ...
First, on load dependency ... that will be because of the output filters peaking. Class D is known for this and keeping it under 1db (i.e. inaudible) is not easy. I seriously doubt that when sitting down and listening to the amp anyone would ever hear it.
Second the power on multitone ... probably a limitation of the power supply or the chip's current limiting setup. Not all TPA3255 amplifiers do this.
Yeah, I was unsure if the power with multitone is common so I checked my NAD C 3050 that I currently have in for testing. It hits 96-98 watts @ 4 ohm with MTON while the single 1kHz tone does 100w. Which is a lot less 'degradation' than this WiiM with about 30w of output loss. Still, I have to consider that the WiiM Amp is itty bitty and feature packed for only $299.
@@ErinsAudioCorner
The TPA3255 chip has a programming pin for current limiting. In fully encased setups like the Wiim ... some current limiting is necessary to prevent thermal panics. This can limit both multitone power and dynamics by some small amount. Without that the 3255 chip behaves more like your c3050 but requires a pretty chunky heat sink and fan.
For a comparison ... I'm using a Fosi Audio TB10D, which is also a TPA3255 chip with a pair of Pioneer fs52 towers that run about 85db sensitivity in a 12 by 24 foot room and routinely listen at 80 db. The amplifier is set to 1/3 volume (knob at 10 o'clock) and I keep the digital volume from my HTPC at about 50%. (i.e. 1/6th volume) Nobody is working hard and it's plenty loud enough. My power meters almost never get over 5 watts on either music or movies.
One point to consider with multi-tone testing is that unless you are controlling the levels of each tone to mimic normal musical decay (see the Fletcher Munson curves) you are asking for a lot more power than even heavily compressed music would. Typically if you have a bass note at 60hz and a flute at about 4khz ... the flute would need about 10 to 12 db less power to sound equally loud. Above the 4,200 hz piano scale all the harmonics fall off very rapidly at 10 khz normal decay would place that at -20db.
@@Douglas_Blake_579
Good info, tx! 👌
Thank you great information.
@@don1946
You're welcome.
I was really interested in this to replace a mini PC running Foobar, playing my library off an internal SSD, driving a DAC to an integrated amp in a music-only speaker rig. It would allow me to get rid of the TV attached to that to PC, the wireless keyboard, and integrated amp remote and run it all from a 10 inch tablet (bad eyes means a phone is just too small.) Unfortunately the info I find on the WiiM users or other forums to date suggests that even though it should be able to read an SSD in a USB enclosure, there are problems with initial indexing, USB drive disappearing completely, etc.. I also can find no info regarding how one can easily create playlists other than individually dragging each cut into the playlist. That's a deal breaker for me with 16,000 FLACs in roughly 1500 folders. I'm curious to know what you thought about the app. Thanks!
I doubt that cruising an external hard disk is a priority in an IOT device like the Wiim. But for playlists, if you can discover the format (most are pretty simple) that Wiim will play, you can probably create them in a text editor.
The Wiim has a nice feature set. Would be ok nearfield for me, but not enough output for my theater or music needs. Once you own some pro audio gear, you will find a lot of the consumer stuff lacks output. Erin, thanks for another great review.
This reminds me of my old Sony UDA-1 DAC/amp. It was a great product for me, before I experienced good sound...
I highly respect your opinion then use the. External pre out if you thank you need more power
Thanks for this review! I’m running mine in our great room with Paradigm Monitor 7s ver3. Don’t need loud so I’m happy with it, so far.
If the power this unit provides is not enough and you still don't want to spend a lot, i'd say check the other wiim products and connect them to more powerful gear. Specially if you just want to stream. Same software, same features (except for the mini that is a bit more limited). Wiim ultra is soon to be released and that will have even more features.
Love it Erin! Can’t wait for more electronics reviews. As others have said the multi-tone, both channels driven test is extremely revealing. My take is that because most bass in recordings is mono and makes the most demand in power terms, this test is of upmost importance in assessing an amplifier’s performance.
Regarding outright power, isn’t amazing in this day and age when 90W is considered underpowered for an average size room and average sensitivity speakers…
I was around in the 70s and 80s when all the big manufacturers were bragging about breaking the 25 watt barrier...
If you have the chance, hook a pair of calibrated power meters up to your speakers and watch just how much juice actually flows in your listening sessions... Mine almost never get over 5 watts on music and might occasionally hit 10 watts on movie special effects.
Well done Erin great to see you moving into AMPs it's an excellent idea and very complementary to the technical speaker reviews. Looking forward to seeing more AMP reviews. thank you!
Thank you this is great! I will definitely buy one and try it out!
I'm debating between this and an SMSL AO300 + a WIIM Pro. I've got a pair of ELAC debut B6's, so they're 6ohm and this would give 90W per speaker. The SMSL AO300 would give 125W per channel. Would that actually make a material difference?
Great to see the electronics reviews. It would be great if you could get a hold of a Yamaha RN1000a or better yet a RN 2000a for measuring. 👍🏻
nice review. i will be honest. i buy most of my gear used at this point. surely they will sell the crap outa this unit. college kids dream
This was a very good review, Erin. Hopefully you will do a lot more of amps in the future
Thanks!
You knocked it out of the park. All of the relative information without the BS. I'm thinking power supply size on that 30 watt power drop with multi-tone only can do so much with the size and the price. If it had an external power supply that could have been easily tested but everything's a trade-off.
From the specs. I would think it's running on either a 32 or 36 volt, probably 5amp supply.
I think adding a powered sub should help in minimizing the output concerns.
Though I think if WiiM launched a more powerful version and/or one with Pre-outs and charged more, I would buy it yesterday! If they BOTH a stronger amp (comparable to the PowerNode) and pre-outs, I'd be more than fine paying 2-3X the price.
Great review Erin. One detail I have not yet found is the nature of the output volume control. Do you know if the WiiM Amp controls volume digitally, as in the Mini, Pro or Pro+, or is the volume control an analog control of the amp output?
I love your reviews. You are one of the few people I trust. :)
If Sonos had decent EQ, I wouldn't even be looking at this device. I've had 10 zones of Sonos for about 15 years and I love it. I'm moving to a new house soon and I want step up the quality on everything. My problem is that ceiling speakers sound terrible, and most of the outdoor speakers aren't much better. I suspect that many affordable speakers could sound much better with EQ. For half of my house, the Wiim amp is plenty. But outdoors, and the main living area will need more power. 4 Wiim Pros plus an 8-channel 250w Buckeye amp is still cheaper than 4 Sonos Amps, even after my 30% loyalty discount.
So 10 zones of Wiim (6 amps, and 4 pros) would be $6200. 10 Sonos amps with the 30% discount would be $4900, but there would be no PEQ. To try to use Sonos ports with a mini DSP and an amp would cost a small fortune and be a big mess in the rack and harder to use than the Wiim.
I guess the best solution is to spend stupid money on good ceiling speakers and stay with Sonos.
I still have a few months to decide.
Thanks for this, Erin!
Really informative and objective.
I'm a WiiM Amp user and can attest to your findings regarding the power of the Amp - in smaller spaces, you don't lack power at all.
I've stepped down from an Atoll IN100 amp and, although Atoll is clearly a better amp, I don't feel the little WiiM hasanything much to be ashamed of, especially for 5x less money.
One more observation: I switched from my usual QA 3020i's to a borrowed pair of CSS 1 TD-X's and noticed a significant rise in sound quality. That is telling me that a pair of higher-quality, not-too-bright speakers is in order.
Best regards,
Vlada
Hi! This was very informative. Would you review a decent "vintage" AB amplifier? I am saying this because the used market is flooded with 80s, 90s and 2000s AB amplifiers (some of which are sold under $100). I reckon that manufacturers are price gouging consumers for modern features like streaming, HDMI eARC etc... These features can be added through an external streaming DAC. Note that American/Japanese brands like Marantz, Pioneer, Technics or Yamaha command a higher price for hype reasons. British brands (Creek, Rega, Musical Fidelity, Arcam, NAD etc...) offer tremendous value.
Great review, Erin! With 10 band PEQ at this stage?
Great review Erin, this amp has a place and at the price its a bargain
Great real-world review. Hope to see more amp reviews. Btw, did you ever do a video on the Polk R500s?
Thanks. It's coming. I'm working on that one right now.
I think this looks excellent, but with a slightly underpowered amp for some circumstances.
So what’s needed is a WiiM Pre-amp; exactly the same, but let’s you choose your own amp. And if you want something g with moderate power, then the Fosi Audio V3 is there for you. Want something more? Buy a bigger amp. But this is a great front end, from streamer, through EQ, through DAC, through bass management.
Word is WiiM is working on a WiiM Ultra maybe preamp? I agree, now using a WiiM pro plus into a Fosi V3 which is a great little system.
@@don1946
So Don... Do you have subwoofer capability with this setup and furthermore does that Wiim product allow you to access the equalization program on their app? Thanks!
Excellent!!! This review, your first off this type, was FANTASTIC!!!! MORE PLEASE!!!!! Did you say there was a crossover built in to the Wiim software/app?
Thanks!
Yes, when you engage the subwoofer output, you can adjust the crossover from 30 Hz to 250 Hz. The crossover slope is not adjustable but the frequency is.
@@ErinsAudioCorner Sorry, I meant to specify, is there a hi-pass filter for the speakers? Thank you so much for your reply! Made my day! I really enjoy your review and am soo happy you are back and better than ever!
Does the power output improve if you use a more powerful power supply?
It might. But the power supply is built in on this one.
Purchased in order to move Bluesound Powernode to another room. HDMI ARC was DOA so it's going right back. WiFi worked well but power is so-so even handing lows to sub. Oh well!
Could you please tell me what speakers do you use? And what did you finally decide to get instead of Wiim? Another Powernode looks like a good investment here
If power is a concern but a person likes the Wiim ecosystem and feature set, getting a WiiM mini or Pro + a beefier amp could be a solution
I appreciate the talk about actual use case, why people might say this or that. Who the product is for, who it's not for..
I do find the approach to measurements obscure maybe? It's still very interesting, But its hard to relate these measurments to other amps. (Unless you assume we are going to hunt down other sources for the more common measurements.)
I’ll provide measurements.
The thing that matters is what I’ve provided, though. Now you know a) does the speaker change the response of the amp (yes, it can) and b) does this make rated power and are there any caveat to that power rating (yes, and yes). 👍
Now that you know this information, you can find an online calculator to determine if this is enough power to get the volume level that you want for your room. 💪
ALthough those small amps are not for me I appreciate you reviewing more stuff as I trust your objectivity and there's not a lot of that online these days..
Sub out not working even though the high pass works when toggled on the app. No EQ on Bluetooth out. And tons and tons of lag over Bluetooth are some of the things I found on day one. It would have been too good to be true otherwise. Hope they fix it because I love the ability to room EQ among other features.
Great test with relevant info thanks brother !
For $250.00 more, I can buy a Pioneer VSX-LX305 for $529.00 plus tax from Adorama. From a cost perspective I can't agree.
Plus Dayton Audio has a tube A/B amp with HDMI and 100 WPC for $50.00 bucks more than this Wiim. And I'll take a class A/B amp over a class D any day of the week. Just my opinion.
The Onkyo TX-NR6050 AVR was/is also On Sale at Adorama for $299 and is much more versatile, 90 WPC @ 8-ohms for the front channels, but admittedly a much larger box.
@@bbfoto7248 I actually have this model - it's worked flawlessly to date.
Can someone explain me why a class A amp with 25watt is often used in demo’s with large speakers… as far as I know 1watt is 1watt.
I like this, it may be your first it I think it was the best I’ve seen.
Wow! Thanks!
Don't Scott Wilkinson things to death, i.e. explaining the obvious... a 300 buck do-all box should not be on the radar of those with large rooms/speakers, or high SPL and Godzilla bass requirements. Keep up the [otherwise] good work Erin.
Great video! Do you think integrating a subwoofer with a pair of bookshelf speakers could make it into the living room without affecting sound quality?
I’m wondering the same.
great vid but a little unclear for me on how to think toward the data. did you hear an inherent treble/air/ 20kh ish boost then (compared to an amp that tests flatter, both given a control source / song), would be a great way to confirm that data set as audible.
i didn’t think amps could affect frequencies so much. if it’s brighter sounding i don’t think i’d care for it.
The tpa3255 is close as makes no difference to being dead flat in response. The only serious deviation is well above 20khz and, unless you're a bat, you ain't never gonna hear it. (Most people only hear from about 40hz to 14khz)
The features on these Wiim devices are crazy! I got the Amp first but decided to go with the Pro Plus and a separate amp, not because I needed it, but just because I could. I was impressed that you could change the output voltage on the Pro Plus; 2v, 1v, etc and then cap the max volume to exactly match the input of your amp.
Wow. Just wow. Erin - the depth of your investigation and measurements is second to none. I much more prefer the measurements you've done to a much more well established reviewers in this field. Very well done.
You need data from as many sources as possible, it's just got to be good reliable data. Otherwise you end up buying power cables, special interconnects and cable lifters. Oh and ethernet switches, the audiophile ones.
Can you also test the XTZ EDGE A2-400?
Well covered here. You provided info that most reviewers haven’t. I appreciate that. I look forward to more content like this. Thank you.
How are you controlling the Apple TV without video? If you ran straight into the WiiM then you would not have any video.
It will be interesting to see if they go same route as their streamers....Wiim Amp Pro.....Wiim Amp Pro Plus
Word is a WiiM Ultra is in the works may be an amp or preamp? 0:02
Aaron Tuchardt @ Cascade Audio posted a brief comparison of WiiM amp vs an older Onkyo AVR rated 75 Watts. The WiiM amp can not deliver rated power compare older AVR of similar rated power. The sound quality from the WiiM amp is wimp. A good old A/B amp is the way to go for quality sound.
For single use in a smaller room, this hobbyist's amp is hard to beat. Ease of use with streaming services and integration with TV sound is its greatest strength. It is a good representative the direction audio technology is progressing to. For those who want significantly more power, consider its predecessor, the Sonos Amp. No I don't work for Sonos and I'm not a fanboy of the brand but the Sonos Amp provides 120 Watts/ch in 8 ohms and can be expanded into an integrated whole home audio system controlled by the most intuitive app on the market. Sonos also has plenty of useful tricks that have not been reliably duplicated by other whole-house audio system
could not agree with you more...wish it had more power.
one problem I had with the WiiM was lack of bass , was comparing 2 pairs of speakers with the WiiM and SONOS AMP ,at fairly high listening volume, and the WiiM was very bass thin , even when I cranked the bass EQ up.Not sure what that was , but it was a very obvious difference.perhaps with a subwoofer it won't matter.
Something to try ... instead of turning up the bass, turn down the mid and treble.
If the amplifier (any amplifier) is close to it's power limits, turning things up is likely to lead to clipping, literally demanding more than it can give. The minimal result of this will be an increase in distortion without an increase in loudness, in extreme cases is can generate a lot of harmonic content that is known to damage tweeters.
I think my mistake was to try different speakers with different amps , for the lack of a switch box that's all I had at that time. probably not a fair comparison
@@Douglas_Blake_579
I was shocked with how low the output was... its really niche use cases. A kitchen radio with impressive quality stats :P but useless to real audiophile type listening. Subjective but I was super disappointed.
went with the russound ava31 instead of the wiim... the Wiim is a bit too thick to mount behind a tv and no center channel. Not too many reviews on the russound system
Thank you kindly Erin,, 🌟🙏🌟
Thanks for the video. Appreciate you adding amp reviews to your armamentarium. The fact that you are buying is helpful as are your measurements and listening comments. Rock on Erin!
Really good review, you are on to something by looking into amp performance with both simple and complex signals. Most other reviewers do not have this ability or your expertise in speaker design and interface.
You picked a fun little amp to review as it is so versatile. Would like to know how the stereo amp performs when in 2.1 channel mode with lows filtered at about 80 Hz.
Thanks.
I had a subwoofer connected and was quite happy with it. Being able to adjust the crossover on the app from the seat is excellent. Makes dialing the crossover frequency in much easier.
Can someone tell me: Does this amp offer a L/R balance control? I need a small form factor amp with balance control and it's been incredibly difficult to find one that offers that basic feature. Can the balance be adjusted in the app?
Yep, you can adjust the balance via the app. You can also set the sound to be stereo or mono via the app as well.
Thanks very much for the info, Erin! Looks like I may have found my amp. (As long as, that is, the balance you set remains constant, vs re-setting each time you use the app). @@ErinsAudioCorner
Hey Erin, Is this streamer capable of combining multiple units into a zone audio solution? Is it capable of connecting to a computer via the usb to use as an amp/DAC combo for passive speakers to step up my near field PC listening experience?
Great review with great tests. So when you set the sub crossover point, it's feeding the mains a signal above that? So not just a crossover point for the sub, but also the mains? I am shocked at all they put into this amp. I would like to see their next amp to provide twice the power and 2 sub outputs - very important for those running subs up past 80 hz. Those are the only two issues I see, except overall sound quality.
That is correct. The crossover is active for the mains and the subwoofer pre-out.
The general consensus on this product seems to be that you CAN do better with separates, but the convenience of the Wiim Amp is through the roof for the right application. Separates: Wiim Mini, SMSL SU-1 DAC, Fosi V3 amp, HDMI converter if needed. Thats like $250 to $300 and I'm sure sounds and tests better (based on great numbers for the V3).
Probably the biggest issue I see with the low power of the Wiim Amp is that for a compact system, you're likely to use compact, cheaper, high draw speakers. It's an odd design in that sense. I'd be quick to recommend the Dayton 402x with the Wiim Amp as a killer sub $400 system, but the Dayton is like 81db sensitive... so I'd have to recommend the separates. It's not till you get to an 87 or 88db sensitive 5" monitor (with mediocre bass tuning) that things get reasonable. NEEDING to add a sub is an oversight for an amp designed for compact systems. Those Daytons will put out useful bass, but need power to do it.
They should package it with an outboard power supply (I hate that I just said that) or make the box big enough to produce a true 50 wpc.
Instead of the WIIM Mini and SU-1 the WIIM Pro plus. Get the Fosi ZA3 instead, because it has a sub out and can be used in Mono PBTL mode. You have a better upgrade path that way. You can add a second ZA3 and a separate DAC later. It will cost you 70 bucks more but you are getting more and better power out of the bat. Alternatively the Aiyima A07 MAX. (No sub out tho)
Boom. Or get an SMSL a300 integrated amp. You dont even need a dac or streamer for a while becasue of nice BT connection. It has remote, hipass crossover and full sub out.@@D1N02