Another option is to find a race where A, B, C and D all start together at the same time. These can be quite interesting! Also longer races can be useful to make it more challenging. The downside of riding a category higher is, as you say, you just end up riding round on your own having been dropped! But you won't know unless you try...
Trying A is playing with fire, we often do 5wkg+ average in a race , and then pull out 13wkg sprints at the end, last thing you want to do is do slightly more power than normal and find yourself locked in A cat prison. Just like in C cat when you had the matches to play games , start to give yourself 2 matches where you are the one driving the pace in B. It's time you started being the hammer and not the nail.
I'm a similar age and level to you, Max. Our numbers and performances are pretty similar. A flat A race with a decent sized field is no problem for me to finish, and hit 4+ w/kg average. Problem is that there are few of such races. But if you see one, do it! Any significant hill and I'm struggling as A riders tend to be pretty light and can hit elite w/kg climbing. This is also where they attack. A also has the most cheats, who can totally distort a race with a small field. It's easy to end up in a tiny group off the back when the best A riders jump after a cheat. In the lesser attended A races you often see riders finishing in ones and twos with some distance in between. This can be boring if you are bringing up the rear. But if the group is big and you are hanging with it, it's awesome! And doing a B race feels easier afterwards. Today I tried an A race, got dropped on a hill 15 minutes in (311w average). Quit, joined a B race twenty minutes later and found it 'easy' in comparison.
This is what I want to start doing. I think the odd A race will help me develop and then will bring my Cat B racing into a better place. Also going to have to try cause some trouble in a Cat B race
I did my first climb portal race up the virtual Tourmalet a couple days ago and it was a very different yet motivating experience competing with a handful of people with very little draft involved. I would encourage you to try a mountain race at some point even though (or perhaps because) it's scary.
Another great race for you, mate. I found it interesting when you mentioned the northern hemisphere folks are starting to ride outdoors more, reducing the number of riders in the prime time race slots. I'm in the southern hemisphere, so it's the reverse for me, naturally. My prime time slots are starting to build up with more riders. Fancy waking up at 3:00 am your time for a ride? Ha!. Regarding up catting yourself to A. I mean, go for it! Nothing to lose? Would be fun to see how you can go against the big guns. I've always thought it'd be cool to race the A cat races and sometimes come up against pro's and get ABSOLUTELY flogged by them. I'll be cranking as hard as I can, HR at 190+, literally about to die. And old mate, Norwegian pro over here is just cruising zone 2 barely raising his heart rate above 115 lol.
Ha I’d be tempted to join a southern hemisphere race, need to see if I can make the whole time thing work. I see a lot of great Aus races in events and keen to get involved
Moving up on zMAP instead of zFTP makes it tough. I just published my video of this race. It's possible to stick in there depending on the field. But if A+ riders show up it's over.
I commend you for wanting to progress and move up in the categories. Many people including some of the big RUclipsrs just want to say in C and when they get promoted to B stop racing until they get sent back to C.
Your thinking is totally right. I got to the same place. Had the fitness to hold the front but still didn’t have the grunt to take the win. Where do I find the grunt is the same question you are asking yourself. I chose to hit the Alpe. I have held 300 watts for the whole climb. To win in CAT B I feel I need to be able to hold 350 watts for long periods. Do I’ve began doing some climbing on the Alpe and holding 350 for as long as I can.
@@thewattlife cycling is a tough old game, specially when I don’t have age on my side. Having said that I just love it as it offers endless scope to better yourself. I enjoy watching your stuff. The in-depth commentary adds value. Hearing a riders thoughts as a race unfolds is the most interesting part. You’re looking super healthy as well. Have a great week.
Max, you could also try the "A" pace group (the pacer is named Constance). I've noticed a lot of gains by riding in that pace group for an hour at a time two or three times per week, especially when there are only a few people riding with the pacer - it makes for a much more challenging ride. Better yet, try staying with Constance in Makuri Islands for an hour by yourself. I've yet to accomplish this, but I'm working on it. Good luck in the "A" race. Hopefully you can find one that has some good attendance.
Ah this is a good idea. I haven’t ridden a pace group in a while but this actually makes way more sense than hitting a Cat A race so will have to give it a demo next week and see how it goes
10 months ago you were doing good cat c trying cat b. Your rate of improvement is insane. I heard it usually takes a year for somebody to go from cat C to cat B and another year cat B to cat A.
I think you'll surprise yourself how well you go in A grade. I've done a bunch of A grade races lately, mainly City Crit Bell Laps. I sat fairly comfortably in the A grade group for "THE CHOP", which is a regular handicap race here in AU. B grade has got so hard these days that there's really not that much difference if you race A grade. The only downside to A grade is the bunch sizes are much smaller and A grade seems to attract the cheaters. A few A grade races I wanted to do only had 1 other in A, so I jumped over into the B grade pen.
Even though I've yet to win a B race, I have also thought the same. In my latest race, with 49 riders, I was in the front group the whole race ending up in 4th place!
I think you have two opposing thoughts in your head and regardless of the Cat its unlikely to pan out how you want it to. How many running races have you experienced where you were neck and neck with someone for 20-30min threshold efforts? Its rare right, its the ideal situation and you'll remember the experience forever but it hardly ever happens. Same thing in these zwift races. You're either looking to win, playing it smart and tactical or you're looking for a hard workout. It will be rare for you to get the perfect mixture of both. I am not trying to dissuade you from Cat A but i think going for a hard long solo breakaway in Cat B will give you the same effort you're after. The difference in the Cats is all about duration, the power levels are relatively the same but we just hold it forever. Wish i could be there for your first Cat A Congrats on the marathon! Sounds like your running is on point atm
@@tombarnes2652 I actually wish that was an option for normal races, like hey i wanna go for a solo breakaway. You would be telegraphing to everyone to jump on your wheel but it would be a cool dynamic
@@joshvillen True but if having a group to ride with is motivation to keep pressure on the pedals may work well. Effectively you would just get rid of the lulls.
You will do fine in cat A. Your wats will allow you to sit in the bunch. If you hit the wind, you would have to spike up your power by about 100w at least, so watch your position in the bunch. Good luck 👍
Come join us in Cat A. Only way to get better is to race people who are better than you. I'd much rather come last in a Cat A race (but still have put out the numbers) than a top ten in Cat B. See you in a start pen soon.
Do you regularly adjust your shoes during the ride as part of normal racing? Or were you trying to find the right tightness or fixing an issue or something? Good video, btw.
Apologies for the late reply. Not normally no, usually I’d crank them before a race, but my legs were knackered from running Manchester marathon on the Sunday so I think I was just a bit lazy and not quite in full race mode for it.
By all means jump into a Cat A race, but if you want to work harder you kinda answered your own question - just work harder in Cat B. Drive the pace from the front if you're hitting grey/blue power. I recently got cat enforcement upgrade into A by just trying to set 2/5/10 min power PB's in B races, driving off the front and just trying to hold my own effort at specific w/kg's etc - for me that was more enjoyable than just joining A races and trying to hold on as I got a few podiums (it's also fun to cause the hurt on others) - but to each their own!
Exactly, i love doing this too. It's still pretty crazy when you're doing a 5min 10min max and still cant shake some of these monsters!!! I did 6.3wkg for 5 minutes and just gave someone a nice pull hahahaha HOW ARE YOU HOLDING ON
Yeah I think I’m going to have to start doing this, but I know it will ruin me for the finish. I guess you just have to have faith that other people will find the pace hard too
Well done. Just sign up on flat A cat races and Pump the acid lactic up to the ears!! 👂🏻 🎉 You will improve quickly. Perhaps choosing similar circuit, or flat London with enough time for recovery between efforts.
It can also depend on your body weight- lighter riders will have to push more watts to hold the group. Also slightly better kit will help you move faster with slightly less watts
If you're holding 3.7w/kg in b grade, you could expect 3.9w/kg in A grade. It's not a huge bump. You just have to go with all the moves as the A grade bunches are generally a little smaller so you can't rely on the size of the bunch to pull back the riders trying to break away. In A grade there's usually more riders keen to break away as a solo or a group of 2 or 3 so you have to go with those moves. It will be interesting to see how you experience A grade racing.
I’m just keen to push a little harder after holding 310 watts for 40 mins the other day. So I think I have a little more in me and I want to get a few more watts out
Yeah. I think you don’t have a good handle on how bike racing works. If you aren’t winning B then there are some massive holes in your power profile. Your average power is only one metric. 1 minute to 5 minute power wins bike races inside and outside.
So much this. Guy is way too focused on average power. Who cares? Is he training for tri? He needs to work on the upper end of his power curve like you say. That means sprints and Vo2 efforts. Also, how many hours is he training? Sounds like he wants to improve his LT1. That requires more volume, not doing the same hours at a slightly higher pace. Get a coach mate.
Guys I appreciate this- but here’s a few things to remember. 1. My 1-5 min power has gone up a load. Check out my videos on Quarry wood climb which used to take be 3:15 and I’m now at 2:45. 2. I’m not fused about tactically winning an esports race because… well, it’s a Zwift race on a random night and ultimately isn’t a huge thing to shout about. 3. I’m training for some racing later this summer, crit and road. Please remember I’m not a pro, semi-pro or even accomplished club rider. I’m still pretty new and I’m building my numbers. Oh and I have a 100 mile run in two weeks so a lot of my races I’m doing after 10-12 mile runs. I’m not saying I’m special, I’m just making content about cycling and trying to get better ✌🏻
@@thewattlife really not sure why you are racing then. Just do threshold workouts if you care about just holding a particular power. Bike races are won by going over threshold and recovering quickly. Not by holding a high power consistently. Working on base is still really important but catting up so you can just have a higher average wattage is a bit silly.
I rode the same i cat A. Problem 1. There are only 5-10 riders. Problem 2. Cheaters. If you cheat in cat B, you will soon be cat A. Not mush happends in cat A. Cat A is now boring....😢
A cat is pretty dead at the moment. Most races are empty or less than 10 riders. Half of those will be cheats or "misconfigured" trainers. Zwift doesn't care. Only the big A cat races are worth doing. Tiny Races for example.
Another option is to find a race where A, B, C and D all start together at the same time. These can be quite interesting! Also longer races can be useful to make it more challenging. The downside of riding a category higher is, as you say, you just end up riding round on your own having been dropped! But you won't know unless you try...
Yeah mixed Cat sounds like a good way to go
Trying A is playing with fire, we often do 5wkg+ average in a race , and then pull out 13wkg sprints at the end, last thing you want to do is do slightly more power than normal and find yourself locked in A cat prison. Just like in C cat when you had the matches to play games , start to give yourself 2 matches where you are the one driving the pace in B. It's time you started being the hammer and not the nail.
I agree R.T and I'm stuck in that prison 😆
Always with the wise words. Cheers man hope you are well
Maybe try chasing tour events. They are multi cat starts, so you get a taste of higher pace at start, then ride with your group once you pop.
Yeah I think I need to find some multi start events, you always forget they are mixed cat and just try hold fast groups
I'm a similar age and level to you, Max. Our numbers and performances are pretty similar.
A flat A race with a decent sized field is no problem for me to finish, and hit 4+ w/kg average. Problem is that there are few of such races. But if you see one, do it!
Any significant hill and I'm struggling as A riders tend to be pretty light and can hit elite w/kg climbing. This is also where they attack.
A also has the most cheats, who can totally distort a race with a small field. It's easy to end up in a tiny group off the back when the best A riders jump after a cheat.
In the lesser attended A races you often see riders finishing in ones and twos with some distance in between. This can be boring if you are bringing up the rear.
But if the group is big and you are hanging with it, it's awesome! And doing a B race feels easier afterwards.
Today I tried an A race, got dropped on a hill 15 minutes in (311w average). Quit, joined a B race twenty minutes later and found it 'easy' in comparison.
This is what I want to start doing. I think the odd A race will help me develop and then will bring my Cat B racing into a better place.
Also going to have to try cause some trouble in a Cat B race
I did my first climb portal race up the virtual Tourmalet a couple days ago and it was a very different yet motivating experience competing with a handful of people with very little draft involved. I would encourage you to try a mountain race at some point even though (or perhaps because) it's scary.
Go for it Max! 💪 Looking forward to your first A cat win! 😉
Haha I never even got a Cat C win!!! 😂🤣
Another great race for you, mate.
I found it interesting when you mentioned the northern hemisphere folks are starting to ride outdoors more, reducing the number of riders in the prime time race slots. I'm in the southern hemisphere, so it's the reverse for me, naturally. My prime time slots are starting to build up with more riders. Fancy waking up at 3:00 am your time for a ride? Ha!.
Regarding up catting yourself to A. I mean, go for it! Nothing to lose? Would be fun to see how you can go against the big guns. I've always thought it'd be cool to race the A cat races and sometimes come up against pro's and get ABSOLUTELY flogged by them. I'll be cranking as hard as I can, HR at 190+, literally about to die. And old mate, Norwegian pro over here is just cruising zone 2 barely raising his heart rate above 115 lol.
Ha I’d be tempted to join a southern hemisphere race, need to see if I can make the whole time thing work. I see a lot of great Aus races in events and keen to get involved
i got moved up to cat a and blocked from cat b. i avg 4.0 so usually finish well at the back every race now, not fun.
Similar story for me. FTP Ramp Tests move me into Cat A based on 5m power. If I only raced Cat B races I would never move up.
@@ColoCX it changed. They now track every ride you do on the platform for determining your category.
I got bumped up into Cat B from doing a bunch of FTP videos.
Moving up on zMAP instead of zFTP makes it tough. I just published my video of this race. It's possible to stick in there depending on the field. But if A+ riders show up it's over.
I commend you for wanting to progress and move up in the categories. Many people including some of the big RUclipsrs just want to say in C and when they get promoted to B stop racing until they get sent back to C.
The plan is it try get as many watts as possible!!!
Your thinking is totally right. I got to the same place. Had the fitness to hold the front but still didn’t have the grunt to take the win. Where do I find the grunt is the same question you are asking yourself. I chose to hit the Alpe.
I have held 300 watts for the whole climb. To win in CAT B I feel I need to be able to hold 350 watts for long periods. Do I’ve began doing some climbing on the Alpe and holding 350 for as long as I can.
Good plan- I need to make a few changes but at the moment I have a bunch of running to do too
@@thewattlife cycling is a tough old game, specially when I don’t have age on my side. Having said that I just love it as it offers endless scope to better yourself. I enjoy watching your stuff. The in-depth commentary adds value. Hearing a riders thoughts as a race unfolds is the most interesting part. You’re looking super healthy as well. Have a great week.
Max, you could also try the "A" pace group (the pacer is named Constance). I've noticed a lot of gains by riding in that pace group for an hour at a time two or three times per week, especially when there are only a few people riding with the pacer - it makes for a much more challenging ride. Better yet, try staying with Constance in Makuri Islands for an hour by yourself. I've yet to accomplish this, but I'm working on it.
Good luck in the "A" race. Hopefully you can find one that has some good attendance.
Ah this is a good idea. I haven’t ridden a pace group in a while but this actually makes way more sense than hitting a Cat A race so will have to give it a demo next week and see how it goes
10 months ago you were doing good cat c trying cat b.
Your rate of improvement is insane.
I heard it usually takes a year for somebody to go from cat C to cat B and another year cat B to cat A.
Im hoping this summer will do my engine some good and by Zwift season ill be in a better position to race Cat b
I think you'll surprise yourself how well you go in A grade. I've done a bunch of A grade races lately, mainly City Crit Bell Laps. I sat fairly comfortably in the A grade group for "THE CHOP", which is a regular handicap race here in AU. B grade has got so hard these days that there's really not that much difference if you race A grade. The only downside to A grade is the bunch sizes are much smaller and A grade seems to attract the cheaters. A few A grade races I wanted to do only had 1 other in A, so I jumped over into the B grade pen.
Even though I've yet to win a B race, I have also thought the same. In my latest race, with 49 riders, I was in the front group the whole race ending up in 4th place!
I think you have two opposing thoughts in your head and regardless of the Cat its unlikely to pan out how you want it to. How many running races have you experienced where you were neck and neck with someone for 20-30min threshold efforts? Its rare right, its the ideal situation and you'll remember the experience forever but it hardly ever happens. Same thing in these zwift races. You're either looking to win, playing it smart and tactical or you're looking for a hard workout. It will be rare for you to get the perfect mixture of both. I am not trying to dissuade you from Cat A but i think going for a hard long solo breakaway in Cat B will give you the same effort you're after. The difference in the Cats is all about duration, the power levels are relatively the same but we just hold it forever. Wish i could be there for your first Cat A
Congrats on the marathon! Sounds like your running is on point atm
Or hop on the TT bike :D
@@tombarnes2652 I actually wish that was an option for normal races, like hey i wanna go for a solo breakaway. You would be telegraphing to everyone to jump on your wheel but it would be a cool dynamic
@@joshvillen True but if having a group to ride with is motivation to keep pressure on the pedals may work well. Effectively you would just get rid of the lulls.
This is definitely giving me some motivation to start pushing a bit harder in Cat B races- even knowing you’ll end up pulling the group along.
I was actually in this event and wasn't expecting it to be so hard. Legs were dead at the end or even before.
Yeah the last time through the Esses was horrible!!!!
You will do fine in cat A. Your wats will allow you to sit in the bunch. If you hit the wind, you would have to spike up your power by about 100w at least, so watch your position in the bunch. Good luck 👍
Come join us in Cat A. Only way to get better is to race people who are better than you. I'd much rather come last in a Cat A race (but still have put out the numbers) than a top ten in Cat B. See you in a start pen soon.
Very valid in catting up to race harder 👍
Hopefully just into one together soon
@@thewattlife looks like it'll be tonight Big Spin at 6:16pm. We riding it like it's A Cat?
Sorry to miss this. Next week hit me ip
Do you regularly adjust your shoes during the ride as part of normal racing? Or were you trying to find the right tightness or fixing an issue or something? Good video, btw.
Apologies for the late reply.
Not normally no, usually I’d crank them before a race, but my legs were knackered from running Manchester marathon on the Sunday so I think I was just a bit lazy and not quite in full race mode for it.
Nice one Max!
Thank you
Had a group in Cat B of 20 riders and still did it in 30 minutes thanks to one mad lad who pulled with an average of 360 watts the whole race
By all means jump into a Cat A race, but if you want to work harder you kinda answered your own question - just work harder in Cat B. Drive the pace from the front if you're hitting grey/blue power. I recently got cat enforcement upgrade into A by just trying to set 2/5/10 min power PB's in B races, driving off the front and just trying to hold my own effort at specific w/kg's etc - for me that was more enjoyable than just joining A races and trying to hold on as I got a few podiums (it's also fun to cause the hurt on others) - but to each their own!
Exactly, i love doing this too. It's still pretty crazy when you're doing a 5min 10min max and still cant shake some of these monsters!!! I did 6.3wkg for 5 minutes and just gave someone a nice pull hahahaha HOW ARE YOU HOLDING ON
Yeah I think I’m going to have to start doing this, but I know it will ruin me for the finish. I guess you just have to have faith that other people will find the pace hard too
Well done. Just sign up on flat A cat races and Pump the acid lactic up to the ears!! 👂🏻 🎉 You will improve quickly. Perhaps choosing similar circuit, or flat London with enough time for recovery between efforts.
London flats is always a good race for trying to hold on!!! Will see what the Zracing monthly’s come up with next week
I’ve been holding upto 4.2w/kg in these races and still not getting near the front! How am I so inefficient?!!
It can also depend on your body weight- lighter riders will have to push more watts to hold the group.
Also slightly better kit will help you move faster with slightly less watts
If you're holding 3.7w/kg in b grade, you could expect 3.9w/kg in A grade. It's not a huge bump. You just have to go with all the moves as the A grade bunches are generally a little smaller so you can't rely on the size of the bunch to pull back the riders trying to break away. In A grade there's usually more riders keen to break away as a solo or a group of 2 or 3 so you have to go with those moves. It will be interesting to see how you experience A grade racing.
I’m just keen to push a little harder after holding 310 watts for 40 mins the other day. So I think I have a little more in me and I want to get a few more watts out
you wanna see the difference between A+B , just join rhino chase race sunday evening , you can join B and do some pulls or A and hang on for dear life
Going to mix up the hanging on for dear life and the pushes from the front in Cat B…. I hope
Yeah. I think you don’t have a good handle on how bike racing works. If you aren’t winning B then there are some massive holes in your power profile. Your average power is only one metric. 1 minute to 5 minute power wins bike races inside and outside.
I may be wrong but Max doesn't seem that bothered by winning races. If he's just in it for a workout then fair enough.
@@harrybrooks03why enter the race at all then?. Just do a workout.
So much this. Guy is way too focused on average power. Who cares? Is he training for tri? He needs to work on the upper end of his power curve like you say. That means sprints and Vo2 efforts. Also, how many hours is he training? Sounds like he wants to improve his LT1. That requires more volume, not doing the same hours at a slightly higher pace. Get a coach mate.
Guys I appreciate this- but here’s a few things to remember.
1. My 1-5 min power has gone up a load. Check out my videos on Quarry wood climb which used to take be 3:15 and I’m now at 2:45.
2. I’m not fused about tactically winning an esports race because… well, it’s a Zwift race on a random night and ultimately isn’t a huge thing to shout about.
3. I’m training for some racing later this summer, crit and road. Please remember I’m not a pro, semi-pro or even accomplished club rider. I’m still pretty new and I’m building my numbers.
Oh and I have a 100 mile run in two weeks so a lot of my races I’m doing after 10-12 mile runs.
I’m not saying I’m special, I’m just making content about cycling and trying to get better ✌🏻
@@thewattlife really not sure why you are racing then. Just do threshold workouts if you care about just holding a particular power.
Bike races are won by going over threshold and recovering quickly. Not by holding a high power consistently.
Working on base is still really important but catting up so you can just have a higher average wattage is a bit silly.
I rode the same i cat A. Problem 1.
There are only 5-10 riders.
Problem 2.
Cheaters. If you cheat in cat B, you will soon be cat A. Not mush happends in cat A.
Cat A is now boring....😢
Yeah I’ve heard that Cat A is a bit of a nightmare and doesn’t get the same numbers.
Still willing to give it a go
A cat is pretty dead at the moment. Most races are empty or less than 10 riders. Half of those will be cheats or "misconfigured" trainers. Zwift doesn't care. Only the big A cat races are worth doing. Tiny Races for example.
Thanks for the heads up- I need to find the right race to give it a crack but I imagine it will take more than a few attempts