@Mario H I think he just means video quality, not player quality. Take this random video uploaded 1.5 months ago for example: ruclips.net/video/G29_pfU9qyY/видео.html
@Mario H I think you're overestimating today's table tennis. It's still just a table and two guys hitting at each other. I'd argue that the guys above wouldn't get smashed despite the obvious lack of movement in their playstyle. They'd still lose, but it's not that giant gap that you're talking about. Their reactions are still quite good. Then again, it's silly to compare since even the ball today isn't the same as back then.
I was at this event aged 12yrs old. Absolutely amazed and inspired by Waldner. I'm sure I have VHS footage of the earlier rounds where Carl Prean played Teng Yi and the last few points of Andrez Mazunov playing Yu Nam Kyu.
@Lewis5525 Waldner is old and yet he was able to pull the unthinkable in 2004 Olympics beating Timo Boll and Ma Lin. You can't really compare him now against Top Chinese players thats half his age. He is by far the most brilliant player in Table Tennis.
On 2000 ittf made the ball bigger so that people will see the ball better on TV they said. Yet I can see the ball on this 87's game footage very clearly.
I remember watching this when it came out. Still today it's great coverage. The game evolved so much between about 1980 and 1987. Compare Waldner's efficient pendulum serve and forehand topspin with Klampar's more old-school technique. Both supremely talented players.
I wonder if Jan-Ove has seen these videos himself on RUclips...Thank you Murrayfield for uploading this, it is really great to watch for any table tennis fan.
@Lewis5525 @quickzilver333 Yes, and it's a logical error to think that the game was less aggressive in Waldner's time. It's rather the opposite: Players like Wang Tao, Ma Wenge, Yoo Nam Kyu or Kim Taek Soo were playing extremely fast, in combination with speed glueing I would say even faster than nowadays chinese top players. But Waldner could handle them all. ;)
This sport follows the Magnus Effect, which is the study of the movement of spheres through fluids. Jan Ove masters the Laws of Physics somehow and since very early age. He should be awarded the Nobel Prize of Physics. He is the best no doubt, others will follow.
@maxfratz33 Waldner has said in an interview that todays players are more "robot like" thanks to the new table/ball. In his prime there was more sense of style and finesse.
Muy buen partido, aunque sea el perdedor Li Gun Sang ha demostrado ser un buen defensivo perdiendo ajustadamente contra el mejor jugador de la historia del tenis de mesa. Me extraña que no le haya visto en ningun otro partido... Aun asi buen partido de ambos, siempre es agradable conocer otros estilos dentro del juego defensivo
Waldner was genius player. He had great successes against the best players even after 40'ies.Let's not discuss if he can win against today's top players. Let's discuss if he had the same conditions and the same age with any other players. He would still be #1 of Table Tennis World.
How old are you? A humble guess is that you didn't live to watch the greatness of JO. The tournament circuit was completely different back then, so you can't compare 1 to 1 in terms of number of tournaments won. He was in 3 straight finals and finished top 3 or better in 6 out 7 straight world championsships (12 year period). He went through the 1996 world championship without dropping a single set. He was in 7 straight team world championship finals from 1983 to 1993 and in 2000 he won again with Sweden where China were HUGE favourites with nr. 1, 2 and 4 on the world ranking. Waldners results are insanely good and in my book, he is by far the greatest ever.
so crazy to see the difference between the old skills compared with the skills of today..i guess even in his best days waldner couldnt beat the players of the current top10. thanks a lot for uploading!!
@TheKarub1 Joo, Chen, Hao Yingchao, Gionis, Wang Xi, Jang Song Man, that new Japanese junior who beat a Chinese in the junior team finals, plus in women's there are tons of top choppers. I mean wake up and look around, there are plenty of top defenders still.
Joe Marshall it’s easier to miss read the spin on the serve as you can cover the serve with your hand back then. but now those Waldner’s serves are illegal.
Waldner didnt use that much athletisism instead he used smart play of top class ball placement, blocks and third ball attacks. Waldner beat wang liqin, ma lin(even if ma lin got the better of waldner), timo boll who are modern day players. If waldner played in his prime today and if he was raised in this era i think he would be in the top3-4 today along with fzd, ma long, xuxin. But thats my opinion
@bizlawprofessor hehe if you think so.. i don't.. 2004 is 8 years ago and the competition is way stronger today.. timo boll is stronger in my oppion.. ma lin as well.. but whatever.. of course he was an supergood play andhe sitll is.. but in his best days he couldnt beat a ma lin, ma long, zhang jike or whang hao at their current level
makes no sense why you would repeatedly spike it when he is in the corner fake the spike let it 2 tap his side.. ur point. seems like a lot of people play stupid. you could be as good as you want to be but being a baseball player I have learned that outsmarting people is more important than your skill.
What an ignorant moron you are. This game is about spin. A drop shot (to drop the ball low and short, close to the net) against a chop will have backspin and is very predictable. It's also very difficult, and if the drop shot is placed too high (which is quite likely) the advantage goes to the chopper. Dumbass. 😏 Go play baseball. Table tennis is a whole new level, not suitable for you stupid Americans.
Waldner is one of the best TT players in the world, but he is not the best.u have to agree that Liu guiliang and Kong linghui is at the same level of him.And if W at his top nowadays or play with the balls and scores of today,he won't be a legend. Cause his best ability is change,not power. So with 40+, maybe Malong or Zhang jike, even some other players who is at the top of TT,can beat him. Time makes heroes ,not heroes makes time.
omg you clearly see how much our sport evolved, waldner, ranked number2 wouldnt even be top 100 today compared to players in our era. he cant even hit a backhand shot properly
@bizlawprofessor we all know that waldner is a legend in table tennis and that he was a unique player. But gertnaster is right, i think at least the top 5 players today would win against waldner in his best times. Just watch the huge difference btw. him and the #2 player today (zhang jike). Sry but he would dominate walnder.
![1995 WTTC 43rd (MT-Final/CHN-SWE/game4) MA Wenge Vs Jan-Ove WALDNER [Full Match/Chinese|720p]](/img/1.gif)
This is better than the ITTF videos today.
@Mario H I think he just means video quality, not player quality. Take this random video uploaded 1.5 months ago for example: ruclips.net/video/G29_pfU9qyY/видео.html
@Mario H he was obviously talking about the video quality lmao
@Mario H I think you're overestimating today's table tennis. It's still just a table and two guys hitting at each other. I'd argue that the guys above wouldn't get smashed despite the obvious lack of movement in their playstyle. They'd still lose, but it's not that giant gap that you're talking about. Their reactions are still quite good. Then again, it's silly to compare since even the ball today isn't the same as back then.
@Mario H you say it like it's easy to play like these dudes
I was at this event aged 12yrs old. Absolutely amazed and inspired by Waldner. I'm sure I have VHS footage of the earlier rounds where Carl Prean played Teng Yi and the last few points of Andrez Mazunov playing Yu Nam Kyu.
Йю
هذا يعني أنك من مواليد 75
Chuck Norris versus Bruce Lee
Both players demonstrate almost a perfect technique in any stroke....everyone should learn from it...
So when did the pros start the obnoxious habit of yelling after every single point won- even on the errors of the opponent?
@Martin Johnsons harimoto
Chuck Norris vs Bruce Lee. Thanks for uploading this !!
@Lewis5525 Waldner is old and yet he was able to pull the unthinkable in 2004 Olympics beating Timo Boll and Ma Lin. You can't really compare him now against Top Chinese players thats half his age. He is by far the most brilliant player in Table Tennis.
On 2000 ittf made the ball bigger so that people will see the ball better on TV they said. Yet I can see the ball on this 87's game footage very clearly.
I remember watching this when it came out. Still today it's great coverage. The game evolved so much between about 1980 and 1987. Compare Waldner's efficient pendulum serve and forehand topspin with Klampar's more old-school technique. Both supremely talented players.
It was a nce tutorial of the forehand topspin against backspin
I wonder if Jan-Ove has seen these videos himself on RUclips...Thank you Murrayfield for uploading this, it is really great to watch for any table tennis fan.
@Lewis5525 @quickzilver333 Yes, and it's a logical error to think that the game was less aggressive in Waldner's time. It's rather the opposite: Players like Wang Tao, Ma Wenge, Yoo Nam Kyu or Kim Taek Soo were playing extremely fast, in combination with speed glueing I would say even faster than nowadays chinese top players. But Waldner could handle them all. ;)
This sport follows the Magnus Effect, which is the study of the movement of spheres through fluids. Jan Ove masters the Laws of Physics somehow and since very early age. He should be awarded the Nobel Prize of Physics. He is the best no doubt, others will follow.
You smell like someone with a theoretical physics major. What has Waldner’s technical abilities got to do with his knowledge of fluid mechanics 😳.
@@yaweli2968 nothing...but I bet when you walk you're effectively applying Newton's Third Law.✌
The best part about this game is the fact you don't have some jackass yelling "cho", or whatever the fuck it is they yell, after every damn point.
masanf Waldner doesn't usually "cho" after winning a point, and the chopper didn't win that many points...
masanf very much true
Yeessssss
Exactly
thank you
great upload, tt history
I love how over 20 years ago they were talking about the defender having no future in the modern game of table tennis.
What’s the situation these days, 27 years later?
@@Michael.Eddington very few top class defenders. They are fewer now than in the 80`s
26 years passed and the commentator is still the same in 2013 :)
They have what we called training
damn dude you are old af 2013.
now its 2019
A seesaw battle. Li Gun actually won 7 points in a row, down 13-9.
"With Waldner serving 16:19 the match is still anybodys"
true
@maxfratz33 Waldner has said in an interview that todays players are more "robot like" thanks to the new table/ball. In his prime there was more sense of style and finesse.
Yes a victory yell should be reserved for a rare occasion when a point is earned with great play---never for an opponents missed shot.
Great comeback
Why I dont know Li Gun Sang? Seems to be a good Chopper :D
at 2:16 bottom row middle. I think it's the woman version of the kid from home alone
That is a women? lol 2 years ago
5:04, just for personal reference..
That's why he ask that because, in the screen he is WR no.2.
For someone who's not tremendously apt with the rules, why didn't the first set end at 4:38, when it turned 11-7?
It was 21 for the win needed
This is an old match, they used to play to 21 rather than 11
And there was 5 serves each instead of 2
amazing
he have a killer spin
how many serve is there for each..
Muy buen partido, aunque sea el perdedor Li Gun Sang ha demostrado ser un buen defensivo perdiendo ajustadamente contra el mejor jugador de la historia del tenis de mesa. Me extraña que no le haya visto en ningun otro partido... Aun asi buen partido de ambos, siempre es agradable conocer otros estilos dentro del juego defensivo
Waldner was genius player. He had great successes against the best players even after 40'ies.Let's not discuss if he can win against today's top players. Let's discuss if he had the same conditions and the same age with any other players. He would still be #1 of Table Tennis World.
How old are you? A humble guess is that you didn't live to watch the greatness of JO. The tournament circuit was completely different back then, so you can't compare 1 to 1 in terms of number of tournaments won. He was in 3 straight finals and finished top 3 or better in 6 out 7 straight world championsships (12 year period). He went through the 1996 world championship without dropping a single set. He was in 7 straight team world championship finals from 1983 to 1993 and in 2000 he won again with Sweden where China were HUGE favourites with nr. 1, 2 and 4 on the world ranking. Waldners results are insanely good and in my book, he is by far the greatest ever.
a guy whose first name was Jan-Ove from Sweden. Just answerin'
players in the old days play so slowly compared to the fast paced players of today like Ma long and Zhang Jike
It's Don Parker
Nice vedio ! 🏓
so crazy to see the difference between the old skills compared with the skills of today..i guess even in his best days waldner couldnt beat the players of the current top10.
thanks a lot for uploading!!
Who was world no.1 at Waldner's time? Just askin
Jiang Jia Liang?
@samheng29....Jiang Jialiang was the world's nr1 that year...
I didn't know Waldner had played Bruce Lee.
maybe jiang jialiang?
@TheKarub1 Joo, Chen, Hao Yingchao, Gionis, Wang Xi, Jang Song Man, that new Japanese junior who beat a Chinese in the junior team finals, plus in women's there are tons of top choppers. I mean wake up and look around, there are plenty of top defenders still.
1:56 . Dmitry Ovcharov?
ocho was barely born in 1987
4:27 lmfao
Edited by Kina.... :( :(
@samheng29 Jiang Jaliang China i think...
@Opalance well who is there but joo ?
hmm...was it Mikael Appelgren?
watching this today feels like a am better than them and i am not that kind of a pro :D :D
Yeah..I can be Christiano Ronaldo on year1800
that mostly because of the rackets i think
How often do you see a world-class player miss three serves in a row? Then his opponent misses two at a key point!
Joe Marshall it’s easier to miss read the spin on the serve as you can cover the serve with your hand back then. but now those Waldner’s serves are illegal.
In the days of speed glue it took years upon years of training to refine the serve-return game.
@raykaracan maybe among the european players. Modern Chinese players are far too powerful and fast for him to be able to handle.
Waldner didnt use that much athletisism instead he used smart play of top class ball placement, blocks and third ball attacks. Waldner beat wang liqin, ma lin(even if ma lin got the better of waldner), timo boll who are modern day players. If waldner played in his prime today and if he was raised in this era i think he would be in the top3-4 today along with fzd, ma long, xuxin. But thats my opinion
That is annoying to watch, but still better than tennis where they moan after each shot.
Was Kim Jong Un at this??
@bizlawprofessor hehe if you think so.. i don't.. 2004 is 8 years ago and the competition is way stronger today.. timo boll is stronger in my oppion.. ma lin as well.. but whatever.. of course he was an supergood play andhe sitll is.. but in his best days he couldnt beat a ma lin, ma long, zhang jike or whang hao at
their current level
Chuck vs Bruce 😂
Waldner vs Bruce Lee
lol he doesn't need to waldner style
waldner who else
after 5 they switch
Neji Black this was old table tennis then it got to 11 points and they changed switch thing
legal serve
makes no sense why you would repeatedly spike it when he is in the corner fake the spike let it 2 tap his side.. ur point. seems like a lot of people play stupid. you could be as good as you want to be but being a baseball player I have learned that outsmarting people is more important than your skill.
What an ignorant moron you are. This game is about spin. A drop shot (to drop the ball low and short, close to the net) against a chop will have backspin and is very predictable. It's also very difficult, and if the drop shot is placed too high (which is quite likely) the advantage goes to the chopper. Dumbass. 😏
Go play baseball.
Table tennis is a whole new level, not suitable for you stupid Americans.
5;56
李根相
試合で怒るワルドナー。始めてみたw
しかしワルドナー若いなぁ
sweeden lose against china?
ben hubbs the tiny dabber Waldner won...
id beat them at drinking beer
Хануй
Оъ
NEGO STA NEGO DA SU LUDI DO DASKE.LUDACI DO DASKE.DRUGI JOO SE HYUK OD CHINA TAJ VRSI NAJJACI ATAK NA WALDNERA.
Waldner is one of the best TT players in the world, but he is not the best.u have to agree that Liu guiliang and Kong linghui is at the same level of him.And if W at his top nowadays or play with the balls and scores of today,he won't be a legend. Cause his best ability is change,not power. So with 40+, maybe Malong or Zhang jike, even some other players who is at the top of TT,can beat him. Time makes heroes ,not heroes makes time.
But Ma Long doesn't have power-only pace.His shots are flat with very predictable trajectories.Hell,a 14 yo Harimoto beat him.
how the fuck did i get to this
omg you clearly see how much our sport evolved, waldner, ranked number2 wouldnt even be top 100 today compared to players in our era. he cant even hit a backhand shot properly
@bizlawprofessor we all know that waldner is a legend in table tennis and that he was a unique player. But gertnaster is right, i think at least the top 5 players today would win against waldner in his best times.
Just watch the huge difference btw. him and the #2 player today (zhang jike). Sry but he would dominate walnder.
Walter's serves, block, and ability to change speeds and disguise his placement make him unique….
Waldner havent skill lol
Zhang Jike is not better than Kong Linghui in his prime.
neroma When was Kong in his prime? 2000, when he barely beat Schlager and Waldner?