Toxic Shame - The Soul Eater
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- Опубликовано: 26 июл 2024
- Carl Jung described shame as 'the soul eating emotion'. In this video Darren Magee discusses when feelings like embarrassment, guilt and shame become toxic and can lead to avoidance behaviours as well as social anxiety, self loathing, low self esteem and confidence and fear of criticism and rejection.
Looking also at where it comes from and ways to help address it.
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#toxicshame #shame #shameful
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This is another of my earlier videos where I've tried to improve the sound. Hope it's a bit better, if not subtitles will be following soon.
The sound is loud and clear. Thank you. 😊
Hi Darren, great video, thanks.
Many comments on sound being great 👍🏻, I also agree. If you think close caption (CC) helps those who have hearing difficulties or those who are wanting to read due to the fact that they can’t have the sound on , because maybe it would disturb others around them ,etc, then you can always add CC function. It is up to you. You can always test CC out on your most popular video and see if it is something people use. All the best.
Thanks for adding the closed captioning so quickly!
Would also like to see your version of shame versus regret.
Then maybe people who feel no shame, no regret, no guilt.
Or no responsibility for the messes they’ve caused.
The sound is good and the contents are like a most excellent BlackBerry cobbler.
Good video. Thank you. I have suffered with toxic shame most of my life. I am in my 70s and finally I am forgiving myself and my mother. Both of my parents were emotionally not available for me. If I stated an emotion, my mother would say "you shouldn't feel that way," but I did. I thought I was the problem. If I did something well and I was happy my mother would say "self praise stinks." I remember on several occasions when I would get the highest grade in my class at school my mother would say "self praise stinks." After that I didn't want to study or do well at school. I was allowing another person's behavior to influence my thoughts and behavior. When my parents put me down like this, it really hurt. Finally I am breaking free of living my life from my parents values. I am starting to be myself and the person God wanted me to be.
So happy you are healing.
My Slovak family always used the "self pride stinks!!" And I'm told that was a regular philosophy for slovaks
My narcissistic mother (also from a Slavic state) said the same thing “self praise stinks” then my narcissistic father would add insult to injury by saying about a stellar report card “you should do that all the time”. I quit trying to ‘please them’ in my early teens but all the abuse (physical, mental, emotional, sexual) took its toll. Started researching RUclips NPD videos ~ 7 years ago & it has helped immensely. Recommend ‘The Little Shaman’ who was one of the ‘originals’ & has succinct playlists similar to Darren. I have unsubscribed to ALL for a break but my favorites pop up in the algorithms. 70 here next year… planning to make the remainder of my life as guilt free & joyous as possible! Best to you.
❤️🩹❤️🩹❤️🩹❤️🩹❤️🩹❤️🩹❤️🩹❤️🩹
One of the long term effects of this has been because I got no encouragement as a child for anything, I struggle to be able to give encouragement to others who need it! :(
I thank all the replies. My mother was Slovak. She was the first general born in the United States. Thanks for telling me it is Slovak cultural slogan (self praise stinks).
Brilliantly said Darren. Toxic shame is not built in a day, we have been often targeted by toxic people projecting their shame and trauma onto us. Even if we think or believe something it doesn’t mean it’s true. We need time to heal that toxic shame which is devil’s talk in our heads. We must forgive ourselves and think of the past experiences as life lessons and not life sentences. When we know better, we do better. Thank you for this extremely compassionate message Darren.
Thanks again Darren, I come from narc parents, a overall narc family, born in to a high control religion/cult like, left it all behind and educated myself, processed, grieved, healed, now 5 months ago my husband went from covert to overt, and ended our marriage, a few weeks ago I was at my lowest, felt buried alive, he is being manipulative, abusive mentally and emotionally, not just to me but also to our 4 daughters, I was at a point where I felt sooooo tired and low, however I had to feel this desperate, to actually ask for help, asking for help is very difficult for me, as I feel like I am a burden or not worth it, thinking I won't be believed and I find it hard to trust, since then I had so much help and support from a therapist, health workers, doctors, and I am no longer afraid to ask for help. Your videos and some other youtube videos have been validating and life saving, Thanks so much!
My biggest struggle was related to toxic shame, which was somehow an internal battle. I was toxically shamed since early childhood. Unfortunately, I developed a shame-based identity that was operating within me 24/7. I was painfully self-conscious whenever I talked to people. If I wanted to laugh, I felt ashamed. When eating in public, I felt ashamed. When making eye contact, I felt ashamed. When walking in public, I felt ashamed. Whatever I was doing in the eyes of others, I felt ashamed. I was basically shamed at my core. That toxic shame was a defensive mechanism? I don't know - yet. But it was plaguing my soul because I felt like I didn't exist psychologically. There is a difference between regular shame and toxic shame. The toxic one is excruciatingly painful. Moreover, you can't make eye contact without feeling awkward; that makes people feel uncomfortable around you.
Just when I think I’m on my feet I fall down again and I realise I’m back to where I was, all this came back when a relative who was stopping with me took me for granted and abused my hospitality..Cutting a long story short he had to leave..then came the questions..was I too hard on him..what will people think of me, I’ll have to explain to everybody..That old person is always lurking about waiting for your weaknesses..
@Tara Ann, I feel you, sister. ::safe hug::
I completely understand
It is very rare to bring me to tears like this from a psych message. You bring up aspects of shame that has been like a type of invisible cement shoes. But it took me a long time to realize how damaging the sick insidious damage a malignant narcissist can pile on an already crushed adopted children. Why they let those people adopt kids is a solid mystery to me. Many blessings to you for these words of understanding. Rare words of understanding. It's like a little more weight of that cross has fallen off my shoulders. The one my now deceased stepdad told me before passing to let go of. Gaining awareness and understanding helps bring healing. Not so sure it would have happened 40 yrs ago. Many blessings for a more peaceful world.
When you talked about the childhood part, things made more sense and compiled with what you were talking about. I know my parents aren't perfect, but a lot of damage has been done that has left toxic shame in its wake. Even if they do love me the best they are able to, this video was very validating, and I've been seeking answers for awhile. Thank you♡ I'm going to seek more.
I’m glad you found it helpful
I was in a work situation that was rife with this stuff. I even participated in some of it, I regret that now. But once I left that seasonal job I started seeing the abuse for what it was. I did a deep dive into NPD videos and videos about manipulation and how to recognize it and get free of it. That's how I discovered your channel, I've shared your videos with many others going through similar situations. I hope it helps them as much as it helped me. I just wanted to say thank you.
This video and your video about Ostracism spoke to me deeply, especially regarding that work and friend circle.
For some reason temporary jobs seem to be filled with people that want to spend the whole day treating each other as bad as they possibly can. If you work those jobs being a confident person, that works hard and does their job right, you will be their target
yes.... forgive yourself... doesnt mean... didnt happen .. or you have forgotten ... we need to learn from it....... 'learn from it'
that is some damn good advice there, Mr Magee ... x
It certainly is! ❤️
That wave when I’m struck by a memory of a time I did a thing that looked stupid, that was stupid… I’ve got a pink box visualization to help contain the feeling. Lots of pink boxes, actually, in an imaginary closet.
Thanks! High level explanation
Soooo clean and clear... Useful
Thank you so much for this succinct and comprehensive description of toxic shame. It has been the bane of my existence my whole life and I’m so glad to be beginnig to heal from it.
It’s interesting that because it is a socially-originating feeling, with enough of it we avoid social situations, yet we need to be our authentic, imperfect, and vulnerable selves with others in order to heal it.
yes, i remember this vid... the most shame i feel, relates to my children being sexually abused. i didnt recognize it was happening, i didnt do enuff to help my children recover. it has impacted on their lives in such a way that ... one child died at the hands of her abusive partner [echoing the domestic and sexual violence that was part of our lives for many years] i have been trying to recover as well. my other two adult children are estranged from me .... they dont blame me for what 'he' did ... but i did a really bad job of helping my children recover. there is nothing i can do now, and it hurts, and i feel so much guilt that i didnt do enuff or i did the wrong things, or i focused to much on my self and what i thought was the right things to do....... i have a thousand excuses for the way things turned out... but ultimately my actions [and failure to act appropriately] has caused so much damage... irreparable damage.
.. i just weep.
You didn't recognise it happening yet you blame yourself for not doing anything about it?
You don't get the nonsense of that do you?
You're blaming yourself for something you didn't know was happening. How can anybody be responsible for something they knew nothing about?
I don't believe for a second you would not have acted had you realised the true nature of what was happening. And i don't believe you do either.
Maybe the place to start is being real about a few things
1 You aren't to blame and aren't responsible for any of it because
2 by your own admission you didn't know.
That doesn't mean you don't care about what happened to your children. But it does mean you drop the fantasy of thinking you should have had superhuman powers and some kind of crystal ball that would have enabled you to see what was happening.
You didn't know. And perhaps your adult children aren't estranged from you because they have already figured this out - that you aren't a superhuman and you didn't know.
Maybe you're estranged from them. And very probably estranged from a lot of other people for the same reasons.
Now substitute estranged for isolated and put self in front of it.
@@johnrauner2515 ... i understand watt u saying ... ofcourse i dont blame myself for 'his' actions.. [i should've recognised it .. no crystal ball needed]. im sure you have an understanding of the complex family dynamic that was 'going on' but ... helping my children recover .... [as primary care giver] .... thats 'all on me' [so to speak]... i know you are right about a lot of what you are saying ... yes i am very isolated .... thankyou for being so frank and taking the time to comment.
This is me. My whole life
I'm crying here.
What a wonderful world this would be if young people everywhere were educated on this topic. They would be spared a lot of pain and suffering. They wouldn’t pass on the suffering either. ☮️ sincerely, thank you! 💕
The sound is great, and thanks for re-releasing this video. It is one of the first videos of yours that I watched, and it's helped me a great deal.
These videos are gems. I like the way he just explains things objectively. The videos calm me down and give me a sense of hope. :)
Thank you for a very helpful and supportive message that comes from your words. Healing from toxic shame is vital but it is a process, it takes time. I also truly believe that shame is a soul eating emotion. Sadly shaming and guilt tripping are favourite toxic people’s tactics. Toxic and evil people head straight for soul and character assassination and that is one of the reasons we have to stay away from such individuals!
Part of not wanting to ask for help is thinking you are imposing on others, putting them out, being a nuisance...
1 What somebody else thinks of you or has an opinion about is THEIR opinion. Just because somebody else says something about you doesn't mean it's true. It's just something somebody else has said - about you.
2 Who died and made them god with the right to pass judgement over you (or anyone else)?
3 The only thoughts in your head are the thoughts YOU choose to put in there. Nobody else can. Your thoughts are the one place in the world that is entirely your own that nobody else has access to. Nobody can force you to think anything. The thoughts you choose to think (about yourself or anything else) are what YOU choose to think.
4 Yes if you are in the sights of a manipulator or narcissist it's easy to fall into the trap of believing this stuff. But the first step to being free of the trap that has been set for you, is to realise you were the one who was silly enough to fall for it. Not in terms of blame, in terms of seeing you were and are in control of your own destiny. It was YOUR mistake to believe what was being fed to you. And you are entitled to make mistakes, that's part of being human.
5 So how about forgiving yourself and giving yourself permission to be a human being like all the rest of us.
Welcome to the human race.
'one of us .. one of us .. one of us' ... just a line from an old Simpson episode ... Lo ...
.. i like ur opinion. ... from Australia.. x
Best explanation of the intricacies of shame. Thank you. I felt this at age 8.
Parent shaming me: check! Unavailable parent: check! Bullying at school: check! Narcissistic (ex)partner shaming me: check!
I feel ashamed for being alive. I try to avoid getting close to anyone, avoid social interaction, ...
Me too
@@taymar3 me too. Just 50 grandfather have this 5yrs now didn't understand. searching now for understanding got some understanding. Now need to get back out their again hermit mode yrs now. Ex never stopped telling me how bad i was just as i get clean start heal & family join in as im back sheep i nearly stopped myself 4good. Trying to heal myself in turmoil and couch surfing. I need GOD'S HELP AMEN. GOD BLESS YOU ALL AMEN ✝️.
Same ❤
Guilt is about failed actions
Shame is about failed sense of self
His closing thoughts are so important!
Darren, god bless you. Your videos have been explained so clearly and set a light bulb off in me for the issues I’ve dealt with my whole life and couldn’t understand. Thank you 🙏🏻
Another thought...'triggers'....i've been soo abused most of my childhood and married life. ..the abuse was multifaceted too....how does one deal with 'triggers'? My kid is presently hanging with my ex and idolizing the jerk! After all the years of protecting my kid from such a bloody monster too! My kid is becoming my ex and im getting trashed talked by my kid and triggered like crazy! Also issues i thought were long past dealt with have resurfaced and those nasty neg feelings of inatiquacy etc. So now with lack of patience..i now have very deep anger issues surfacing too. ..and alot of old baggage resurfacing...aaaah! So not only wiyh several chronic health issues....reprocussions from a recent 2nd stroke and a diagnoses of terminal cancer ...i have now way too much on my plate at present and im doing everything alone too. Its just way too much to handle and im feeling like im losing it...definitely snapping a heck of a lot lately and my potty mouth has returned in a vengence..after over 20 plus years of not swearing...so not kewl! I used to be very laid back, had extreme patience and used to verbalize pretty well too...not now tho! .ive become unhinged and i do not like what im becoming! The present me i do not like at all!....im becoming very dark.. full of anger and a hate for people too now. Im now numbed right out and detached...stupid protective srlf insulating walls are back too!...heart no longer feels lately as well.. .just too detached and numbed out..not doing meds/anti psychotic drugs either! I dont like how anti depressants make me feel...been there..done that ....and dont want to repeat that again!
I understand you 100% been going through this myself for a long time , I said to my husband the other day “I’ve lost my funny “ thank God he’s a good man and very supportive. He seen what I’ve gone through. I hope you start to feel better you deserve it ! Sending you a big hug 🤗
Thank you Darren.
This is Awesome,one of your very best ! Would be awesome to be able to get some more tips on overcoming toxic shame that is soul destroying. Thank you so very much 🙏 bless you and all of us that have and are still carrying this toxic poisonous shame . We need to get some joy in our later years , would be tragic to pass on with this shame.
John Rauner
1 What somebody else thinks of you or has an opinion about is THEIR opinion. Just because somebody else says something about you doesn't mean it's true. It's just something somebody else has said - about you.
2 Who died and made them god with the right to pass judgement over you (or anyone else)?
3 The only thoughts in your head are the thoughts YOU choose to put in there. Nobody else can. Your thoughts are the one place in the world that is entirely your own that nobody else has access to. Nobody can force you to think anything. The thoughts you choose to think (about yourself or anything else) are what YOU choose to think.
4 Yes if you are in the sights of a manipulator or narcissist it's easy to fall into the trap of believing this stuff. But the first step to being free of the trap that has been set for you, is to realise you were the one who was silly enough to fall for it. Not in terms of blame, in terms of seeing you were and are in control of your own destiny. It was YOUR mistake to believe what was being fed to you. And you are entitled to make mistakes, that's part of being human.
5 So how about forgiving yourself and giving yourself permission to be a human being like all the rest of us.
Welcome to the human race.
Toxic shame. Destroys lives. It’s like having toxic sludge all over your body that you can never wash away. Every movement every word you utter is drenched in toxic shame. Finding someone who actually “understands” and can help and not hurt is not a fun process.
John Rauner
1 What somebody else thinks of you or has an opinion about is THEIR opinion. Just because somebody else says something about you doesn't mean it's true. It's just something somebody else has said - about you.
2 Who died and made them god with the right to pass judgement over you (or anyone else)?
3 The only thoughts in your head are the thoughts YOU choose to put in there. Nobody else can. Your thoughts are the one place in the world that is entirely your own that nobody else has access to. Nobody can force you to think anything. The thoughts you choose to think (about yourself or anything else) are what YOU choose to think.
4 Yes if you are in the sights of a manipulator or narcissist it's easy to fall into the trap of believing this stuff. But the first step to being free of the trap that has been set for you, is to realise you were the one who was silly enough to fall for it. Not in terms of blame, in terms of seeing you were and are in control of your own destiny. It was YOUR mistake to believe what was being fed to you. And you are entitled to make mistakes, that's part of being human.
5 So how about forgiving yourself and giving yourself permission to be a human being like all the rest of us.
Welcome to the human race.
Thanks, Darren. I've enjoyed a lot of your videos, but this one really hit home for me.
So very healing and helpful. I’m so glad I found this channel ❤. Thank you for your videos and for sharing your expertise.
Thank you!
Thank you for your videos 🙏 I find them very helpful and shows us all that we are not alone 😞
I was abused as a child and self sabotage myself all the time and don't believe I deserve anything worthwhile in life
What fascinates me is how core shame impacts both people with NPD and codependents without it, but how different behaviors the shame causes in people with NPD vs those with Cptsd. Some with Codependency may also replicate emotionally hateful coping skills their narcissistic caregiver modelled, other people with CPTSD may rarely go into Fight Mode, get stuck in Freeze or Flight. They can feel the shame instilled by their parents and later Shame for having allowed to be a victim of shame driven narcissists.
Pathological Narcissists on the other hand drop Shame onto others as not to feel the Shame themselves. Later they try to push their Shame onto their children and the generational cycle of suffering continues..
Rather a sombre reflection.
I am 44 and have not been able to conquer my toxic shame due to many instances of abuse.
I really love this one. It's a good one to save for a pick me up. ❤
Dr. Magee, I have listened to MANY videos and podcasts about narcissism but when I heard your first video.. tears streamed down my face. You are looking into my soul. I was raised by a narcissist mom. I’m 50 yrs old and I’m living with her 6 months out of the year so going no contact isn’t possible. I’m in the states and have not found a therapist who specializes in this. Do you offer any one on one?
I found you through your talk with Jay Reid, just wanted to give him the cred for a new subscriber 😊
"Don't want people to see me as how I see myself"..they do! No one likes me. I'm obviously toxic though I know I'm not a horrible person. Hard thought process to break from but good video as usual.
I had read that shame is who we are , guilt is what we do.
Hi it's Stephanie. Waiting more.
Amen, Thank you Sir!
I tried. Really i did. No help. No help at all
.. sending you strength, the strength to endure...
and love .... x i hope in some small way this 'helps'
Thank you.
Another thought just now... those nasty people who constantly 'dump' all their toxic, negativity...blame everybody else bs and constantly play the victim/drama queens.... and so damn headgamy like all get out!....its like you are their doormat for all their mental and verbal trash... it makes my head spin!!!
How do I help someone who is self sabotaging all the time? They seem to pick the worst option every time.
Hi Darren...could it be said that Narcissism, in essence, is all encompassing toxic shame (as a defense mechanism)? Thanks for yet another great video! Cheers.
There is a lot of shame at the core of narcissism so I guess it is toxic yes, maybe a different kind though. The defence mechanisms are quite maladaptive
"They" never need help. Always the victim does. Very interesting.
One of the things I've recognized within myself is that when I know my thoughts were distorted, there is something to be said that I still experienced them even while knowing it wasn't accurate.
It's kinda like being in a room with an angry person. It's not you, you didn't do anything, but you're still affected by it nonetheless.
I'm glad that I don't experience every single one of these symptoms lol
WHEN A PERSON LIVES IN A HOUSE WHICH IS PAINTED BLACK, THERE IS SOMETHING SERIOUSLY WRONG WITH THE PSYCHE IN THAT PERSON. IT IS AN EXTREMELY NEGEIVE SPACE
people have made me feel like pure evil just because im straight and single. i have been shamed just for being male and liking women.
♥️
Do you know of narcissism that develops without the shame, or the abuse that produces shame and self-loathing?
I know if such a case and wonder how narcissism developed. Thank you.
Anxiety = shame I once had a fear of going into good restaurants because my clothes I was wearing weren't fashionable it was like I couldn't even walk in and ask can I order some food or make a reservation it was the one thing I was concious of for a four year period very strange looking back on it
Do narcs use their depression as an excuse for their behaviour of neglect and irresponsibility? Is this a sort of paradox because their depression stems from induced trauma guilt shame etc. unresolved past and current emotions and situations?
A lot of them justify their actions with the argument "somebody else did it to me so that gives me the right to do it to somebody else". But what if the person who did it to them never had any right in the first place? Where does that leave their argument?
p͎r͎o͎m͎o͎s͎m͎
Thank you for helping the oppressed. // SHLM & HaB (peace & love). The Name of the Creator is Hayah asher Hayah, as what He told Moshah (Exodus 3:14), preserved in the Hebrew Scriptures. There is a curse to the G-o-d name (Isaiah 65:11-12), preserved in the Hebrew Scriptures. All followers of the Messiah are to do the 7 appointed times (Leviticus 23), but no more animal sacrifices, following the Crucifixion of the Messiah. We are now of the order of MLK TSDQ (King, righteous), to Whom ABRaHM tithed. Ask the Messiah to be your personal Savior. He said to him, I am the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me (John 14:6). All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of Hayah (Romans 3:23). The wages for sin is death but the gift of ALaHYM is Everlasting Life through Messiah Yahushgh our Master (Romans 6:23). That if you confess with your mouth the Master Yahushgh and believe in your heart that ALaHYM raised Him from the dead, you shall be saved (Romans 10:9). He Himself is an Atoning Offering for our sins, and not for ours only but also for all the world (1 John 2:2). The Messiah died on the cross, & Resurrected three days later (presenting Himself as First Fruits to the Father). Please ask Him to be your Savior. He is the ONLY way to Everlasting Life.
Your explanation of the difference between guilt & shame makes absolutely no sense! It sounds like word salad! Maybe try to explain it differently. Please stop referring to Carl Jung like other lazy counselors. 90% of his work doesn't apply to behaviors and mental illnesses of today.
This is the song i was trying to recall lately...explain my recent situations...its how im presently feeling btw....
Numb by linkin park
m.ruclips.net/video/kXYiU_JCYtU/видео.html&feature=emb_imp_woyt
I'm tired of being what you want me to be
Feeling so faithless, lost under the surface
I don't know what you're expecting of me
Put under the pressure of walking in your shoes
Caught in the undertow, just caught in the undertow
Every step that I take is another mistake to you
Caught in the undertow, just caught in the undertow
I've become so numb, I can't feel you there
Become so tired, so much more aware
By becoming this all I want to do
Is be more like me and be less like you
Can't you see that you're smothering me?
Holding too tightly, afraid to lose control
'Cause everything that you thought I would be
Has fallen apart right in front of you
Caught in the undertow, just caught in the undertow
Every step that I take is another mistake to you
Caught in the undertow, just caught in the undertow
And every second I waste is more than I can take!
I've become so numb, I can't feel you there
Become so tired, so much more aware
By becoming this all I want to do
Is be more like me and be less like you
And I know I may end up failing too
But I know you were just like me with someone disappointed in you
I've become so numb, I can't feel you there
Become so tired, so much more aware
By becoming this all I want to do
Is be more like me and be less like you
I've become so numb, I can't feel you there
I'm tired of being what you want me to be
I've become so numb, I can't feel you there
I'm tired of being what you want me to be
Thank you!