I have used the Audio Technica AT4053B for a number of years and never had any issues with it until we flew recently for an indie feature film shoot in New York City. We filmed in 7 interior locations, and in 3 of those locations, the AT4053B experienced very bad RF interference. I don't know the source, we were not using wireless gear on-set and everyone on-set had their cell phones off or on flight mode. NYC is full of wi-fi signals of all kinds etc. The interference was so bad, it ruined the AT4053B boom audio at two of the locations we filmed at. In the worst locations, it kicked in every 10-20 seconds making capturing clear audio impossible. Thankfully we had on-camera Rode NTG mics and they captured great audio and did not suffer the same RF interference issues the AT4053B did. If it had not been for the backup Rodes, we would have been screwed...
Enjoyed the video Curtis. To be honest, when you consider the price of the AT4053B, it likely offers the best price to performance ratio and one I would have no issues picking up in the future. But of course if your doing million dollar productions, then it make sense to use the Sennheiser or Schoeps as they are better.
Agreed for micro and no-budget productions, the AT is amazing. Once one is doing paid work as a location sound mixer, the investment in the Sennheiser and Schoeps makes sense (they are, after all, a LOT less expensive than what most enthusiast filmmakers spend on many of their pro-level zoom lenses)
Thanks for the very detailed explanation! Very cool and timely. I am looking to buy a new mic for my new RUclips/Green Screen Studio. In my setup the ideal place for the mic is over top of the camera which is about 8 feet away from me. I have a Samson Pencil Condenser mic which is going through my mixing board, to my computer. At this distance, the sound is not great, I have to add way too much gain to pick me up, and then the mic it too live. I did find that the ideal placement for it would be a ceiling mount just out of frame...about 3-4 feet from my standing position. So that is option 1...or I could get a shotgun mic. The question is, for the room I described, is there a particular mic you would recommend for this room?
No, I’d stick with a pencil condenser but get it closer. Within 18 inches will give the best results, but anything closer than 8 feet will be an improvement.
Curtis, why do you persist with the 4053b when the 4051b is a cardiod? On paper isnt the 4051b the better option for indoor boom because of more rear rejection? Is there a reason everyone seems to go for the 4053b instead for indoor speech?
Hi Alan, generally for production sound, most mixers prefer a super cardioid polar pattern (or hyper in the case of the AT) for its more directional front. There are no hard and fast rules but cardioid polar patterns often do not have as much "reach" because of their wider pickup on the front. But again, do what works for you. There aren't any rules saying you cannot use a cardioid.
Man, when they sound is subjective and there's no one perfect mic they're not lying. I like how the Sennheiser sounded on Curtis but preferred the AT4053b for his wife's voice. I'm looking into buying a mic for indoor dialogue for my work and man, there's a lot of hearing one needs to do but most important keep in mind, sound is really subjective. I own the MKH 416 and man that thing shines in outdoors. Clearest audio without much need for processing. For indoors, not such a good idea. Overall, I appreciate your videos Curtis.
I would love to watch 2020 remake of this video. Hint hint..... :) I’m in the market for a high quality indoor mic, to make videos just like yours (male talking head “interview“).
@@curtisjudd can the 8050 be used for Foley? I'm starting my first one man band, short film. I have the budget for one mic, I have the TL47 Lav now. I was considering the 416, but after watching your videos, I'm leaning more toward 8050/8060. Most of the scenes are indoors, or quiet outdoor (evening/night). Any input would be appreciated. Thanks!
@@misterunfocused7818 Yes, certainly you could use the 8050 for foley. Just keep in mind that its polar pattern is a bit wider than the 8060 or most other shotgun microphones. "Forgiving" is one way to describe it. But also, "Not as Focused". The 8050 is my favorite to use for indoor dialogue when the space is quiet.
@@curtisjudd thanks for the response. I looked at some more videos by you and I'm thinking what might be more appropriate for my budget and shooting situation, is a second TL47 lav, and an NTG5. I appreciate your input, and your videos, so thank you again
That's potentially good news - all of them very good. You might also try headphones. Often you can hear a bigger difference in quality over-ear headphones.
does the schoeps cmc1 with mk41k capsule have rf protection your referring to ? the schoeps cmc6 doesn't have same rf protections ? why do u use the 8050 more than Cheops cmc6?
So this may be one of the only samples of the MKH 8050 on RUclips, and I think it might be the only English one. It was actually pretty helpful, I recently bought an MKH 8050, will be using my Oktavas for back ups/crash mics. Honestly I hate the sound of the MKH50, but I really like the 8050 for the much more natural high end.
Thanks Curtis for the great video! I’ve been using the AT4053B for about 4 years now and it’s been a great workhorse. Obviously there are some better microphones out there, but for the price I’m very happy. However, I would definitely recommend picking up another mic windshield though as the included one is quite thin!
Hi Curtis, I’m looking to shed some weight ti my boom set up. I currently have a mkh4060 but would like to replace it for a 8050 or even an 8040 ( I prefer a slightly wider cardiod). Two questions please are all the MKH range 60 50 40’s are they the same diameter thickness ( not length ) as I don’t want to buy new suspension if possible. Second question what did you notice about the reach difference between Cardioid such as 40 or 50 compared to shotgun MKH 416 or 4060, would I be fine to swing a cardiod inside and exterior? Would I need to get in closer to talent with a cardiod or it’s pretty similar ? Many thanks
I believe they are the same diameter, but the lyres need to be optimized based on microphone weight. Cardioids are fine outdoors, in my experience. Always keep it as close as you reasonably can.
Have you used your 8050 in car scenes or do you use something else. I'm looking at the 8050 for using in as many scenarios as possible for that price 😁
This helped make my decision to get the 8050 and it paid off on the first shoot after I got it when there were a couple surprise two-person interviews. I was able to put it in the middle and they both sounded great. Definitely better results than my Rode NT3 would would have managed. I'm curious if you have spent much time with the MKH 8060 and MKH 8070 - I'm looking for a shotgun I can pair with the 8050 in noisier environments - figured they'd match the closest tonally.
The Audix SCX-1HC Seems to perform pretty well even when in the "Scoop" position. Something my Oktava MK-012 with Hyper Cardiod dose not. After finding the Audix SCX-1HC I stopped looking for an interior dialogue mic. It really performs extremely well.
Audix SCX-1HC is an excellent budget choice. AT4053B was a good mic but had to return due to the low vibrating frequency pick up issue Curtis mentioned.
Curtis wondering if you have had issues with increased sibilance with talent. I have had a few jobs where I would let the producer listen to the difference between my shotgun and my dialog mic and they would prefer the dialog mic but the sibilance would be an issue, however this for the most part is easy to remove as long as your post production has budget for it. Have you run into this issue.
Hey Jared, yes, all the time. And some microphones are definitely more sensitive in the sibilance range. On most of the productions I work on, I choose the boom mic we're going to use and often I try to get a sense for that while I'm putting the talent's lavalier on them. And sometimes, it just needs to be handled in post with a de-esser. If the producer is making that decision from a comtek feed, I'd be pretty wary and would at least have them use my headphones directly from the mixer to have a better listen. You must be working with some amazing producers if they care enough about audio to actually want to hear various microphones and choose which to use. :)
Well it took a few years but after doing dozens of interviews and getting a good sense of where our business was headed, we finally decided to take the next step and invest in a high-end Boom mic for indoor dialogue. Thanks to your advice we invested in the MKH 8050 and my world has changed forever. Thank you for all your videos and advice, and I can't think of a purchase I've ever been happier with! It was very helpful to make a well-informed decision and the 8050 is the perfect fit for what we do these days. Cheers
Thanks Carlos! I agree, on my voice the 8050 is the most flattering. On most jobs I start with the Schoeps (and it sounds great on the majority of voices) but every once in a while, the 8050 is the best choice.
Why they all sound distorted radio-like? Including the mic you use throughout the video. I checked on macbook, iphone, headphones. Its not much, but am I the only one noticing it ?
I am curious if you think I should get one of these expensive Mics from my situation. I'm going to be recording someone in a Room where there is a road nearby and you can hear cars every now and then going by. I have a rode pin mic and Senhieser g3 lav system. I also have a rode NTG. So far the rode pin lav mic sounds the best. Do you think one of these mics in your video would sound better than my rate pin mic? The room is 16' wide by 28' long. The road nearby as all times of rumbling and voom sounds in various frequencies.
And if it helps this is the person I will be videoing ruclips.net/video/kC4DP7CIgEE/видео.html In this video we are using the Senhieser lav system but it's using the kit Mic not the rode pin. I think the rode sounds better
My bet is that the Pinmic will pick up less ambient noise than a boom mic. Booms generally pick up a bit more ambient sound, part of the reason they sound more "natural".
Hi Curtis, very nice comparison thank you! In a later comparison if you do can you please add the Sanken CS-M1 witch I am kinda leaning of buying lately because is great on a boom for interiors and it's great on cam too.
@@curtisjudd Yes sorry, I though you had some easy ways to get gear for free ;-)! After all you are in my opinion the best audio gear reviewer out there . Thank you for your answer I am looking to get more info on this mic because it looks like a great allrounder (interior dialogue(less prone to reverb and room sounds) , on cam (good side isolation and great focus, and sooo short and light), and can easily double as an instrument mic for someone like me who does a lot of live music recordings. And its a Sanken! We all know they don't do bad mics. This one is well isolated and quiet and probably well made.
Hi Curtis, thank you for all your informative videos! I would like to shoot a series of video interviews, with only one subject (average male non-sibilant voice) in my moderate acoustically treated home-studio. The interviews will be used for a documentary, and some only as voice-over (without image). After some EQ my aim is a rich, warm, “bigger than live” voice. My idea is to put a voice over-mic (such as ElectroVoice RE20) sideways of the mouth, not covering the face (so I can edit it out of the shot in post production). 1) Would this achieve a better result compared to Sennheiser 8050 or Schoeps? 2) When applying EQ anyways, would I be able to achieve a similar result with a less expensive mic (if so, which one)? Thank you.
Hi Udo, dynamic microphones like the RE20 really need to be within about 4 inches of the mouth of the person talking to sound right. I don't think you'll be able to put it out of frame and achieve the sound you want. That's where one of these pencil condenser mics will do a lot better.
Thanks for your excellent revoiws! I´ve seen lots of them and they are truly awesome. I'm thinking about buying a hypercardioid, for a while the AT 4053B was on my to-buy-list, but now I've started to think about the Schoeps 641 and the DPA 4018 also... More expensive, yes, but if they are better, then maybee... Have you done any comparison between the Schoeps 641 and the DPA 4018, and if so, what´s your opinion?
Hi Mattias, I have the DPA 4017B shotgun but have not used the 4018. Based on comparisons I've heard, it sounds very good but since I already have the Schoeps, I cannot quite justify the 4018 in my budget, at least for the moment. Ty Ford did a nice comparison over here if you're interested: ruclips.net/video/3rR4wqqMoc8/видео.html
Hey Curtis, really stuck between the Sennheiser 8050 and the MKH 50 for indoor dialogue. Am I overthinking or does one have an advantage over the other?
Hi Dillon, I have used the MKH50, but not extensively. All I can say is that having used both of them, and the 8050 fairly extensively, I have no regrets going with the 8050.
This is the second video you've made where I've disliked the MKH8050 on your voice - the other one was the automix test. Schoeps was lovely, audio technica did really well. It would be interesting to hear them in a slightly livelier location. That said I'm choosing pleasant sounding realism over radio announcer. Ah well....
When you shoot these youtube videos, what are you using to boom the mic over your head? Would it also be suitable for a wider shot than the one you're showing here in this video? If not, what solution would you recommend for booming a wider shot on a solo operation where the talent is sitting still?
I'm using a K-tek boom pole on a century stand. If I wanted to go wider, I'd either use a lavalier or this technique for static shots: ruclips.net/video/FUJ07WF-x30/видео.html
Great video Curtis. Thinking of getting the MKH-8050 for weddings (indoors). Currently use a MKH-416. Love the MKH-416, but too long for my Canon C70 when using certain lens combinations which can show in the footage. Would you still recommend the 8050 or do you suggest another mic to look at. Thanks
I really like the 8050 and use it all the time, but note that its polar pattern is not nearly as focused as the MKH416. So it can pick up a bit more ambient sound/noise.
Call me crazy, but I can't tell the difference on the dialogue test between the three with two different pairs of reference headphones, trying with an external USB audio interface on my laptop, again straight into the laptop headphone jack (noticeably worse reproduction on all three direct from the laptop, so my ears aren't broken), and again with both pairs of headphones connected to my phone via USB-C adapter. However, I can clearly tell the difference between the mics on your "5 Boom Microphones for Indoor Dialogue". What gives? (Unrelated, but the AT4053B was my least favorite from that video. My best guess is that the other two mics sound very much like it - more broadcast-y and darker, less natural.)
On the female voice, I couldn't hear much difference. On my voice, the Sennheiser has a bit more bass response than the other two. The Schoeps seemed to emphasize my sibilance. The AT seemed most balanced on my voice. Of course, every voice is different so the different mics will favor different voices. In short, the differences are quite subtle. So if most of your audience isn't going to be listening to your content on high quality playback systems (e.g., phone speakers, earbuds, in-built mics on laptops or TVs) then none of these are going to make much of a difference.
My favorite interior mic is the MKH 50, it seems to have a little bit more bite than the scheops, which is also a great mic. The Audio Technica seems great for the price though.
Sennheiser had the most isolation, albeit narrowly. The Schoeps however seemed to capture higher end better. Having said that, I went with the MKH 8050 for the size
Hi. Great reviews. I need a versatile microphone that I can use indoors and outdoors. What mic would you recommend. Money is not an issue. Thank you in advance.
I thoughts the AT4053b made the mids of your voice sound a little crunchier/fuzzier. MKH8050 has a muddier bass response than the 641 but that's easy to mend with the rolloff filter or in post.
Have you ever reviewed the Sennheiser E614 as an indoor dialogue microphone? Can't seem to find many good reviews of it. Even though its specifications are unimpressive, I really liked its sound in the few reviews I could find.
Hello Curtis. Is too late for asking, but I hope that you can see my question. Ok, I have $500 and I need a good mic for interior, dialogue, I know that you favorite is AT but, I no have more money for spending. i spend a lot money at items for movies, is a project, short movie, but I need a good sonic for interior. I have a Zoom F4. what is my best option?
I’d love to know if you or anyone you know has ever used an AKG 451b for indoor dialogue. I own a stereo pair which I’ve used on instrument recording but didn’t know your thoughts for dialogue.
I haven't, but I've used other cardioid pencil condenser mics before with good results - if you boom them fairly closely. I'd encourage you to do some test recordings and see what you think.
So, probably like others I normally wouldn't comment, fearing my perspective and relative lack of knowledge compared to others would be a poor cousin and no help to anyone. But I wanted to take the time to thank you for your extremely helpful explanations and clear information. It helped me to decipher the many offerings, seem half knowledgeable in store and finally pull the trigger on the MKH8050 which, while probably a little overkill for my situation, has solved my audio struggles with a horrible studio area and battling a Video Mic, NTG2 and sensitivity issue of an Oktava. The Expense is all relative though. Was it worth it ?...... every penny, dime, nickel or cent whatever currency matters as now I just don't have to worry about that one thing anymore. So, many thanks from me down here in Australia, I really appreciate you and your channel and i will keep subscribed !
Oddly enough, comparing listens with headphones vs phone speakers I can actually hear a little more difference on my phone speakers. Lol The Senn is clearly darker than the other two on both platforms but the difference I can hear between the AT and Schoeps is that the AT sounds very mildly more robotic, the Schoeps sounds very natural but I’m not sure what it is about the AT but it sounds a touch artificially boosted in the upper ranges. If I weren’t explicitly listening for differences I probably wouldn’t have noticed, but for me it is there. Great comparison.
Really nice review and comparison. The measurement tests were interesting and rarely seen in other videos. I have two 8050 mics for interior dialog (sometimes use two booms) and also a 8040 for getting dialog between two talents close to each other talking to camera or to each other. Tests I heard by a pro mixer showed the MKH8050 and MKH50 sound identical up to about 18 inches from talent, beyond that distance the 50 sounded better. The only problem with using the 8050 is that it is so short that it can be difficult to mount or use it with a larger windscreen, normally I use the Sennheiser windscreen that came with the mic which is a good design but will not prevent boom swing wind sound. I use the Rycote INV 3 which works well enough. I also have a Cinela mount which is stupid expensive but sounds about the same as the INV 3. But I also use a thin Canare mic cable rather than the usual thick cables made to drag around on a stage floor. This needed to provide proper mechanical isolation when using the 8050 in a Rycote mount.
I love the canare L-4e6s star quad cable, used to work on film floors alot with electrical wires everywhere, after I made the switch, electrical interference is a thing of the past. And have noticed a huge reduction in rf interference.
A while ago since this video. I'm about to invest in my first real indoor mic for corporate interviews. Would the 8050 be a good choice or anything newer since this video you would recommend me to research?
The Sennheiser MKH50 is another option (older, actually) that has a bit more "reach" than the 8050, but also sounds a bit more "in your face" than the 8050. Samples here - ruclips.net/video/JXTpL4Ovr2I/видео.html
Do you ever heard of lewitt lct 340 or shure ksm 137? I don't know anything about mic for film use, but i'm sure it should be suitable for indoor-booming needs. Hope you could review any of those too.
Do you know the difference between the Shoeps CMC641 and the Schoeps CMC 6 Ug? The second one is $200 more expensive and I'd like to know if it's worth paying extra for it.
I didn't, but found this to describe how the Colette 6 U differs from the 6 which we reviewed here: Apart from the standard CMC 6 version, Special versions of the CMC 6 U are available. CMC 6 U linear The CMC 6 U microphone amplifier normally has a gradual rolloff in response below 20 Hz to guard against infrasonic disturbances from various sources such as air movement and vibration. However, when using pressure (omnidirectional) transducers, particularly with digital recording, it can be desirable to pick up frequencies below 20 Hz without attenuation. The special technology of the CMC 6 U linear microphone amplifiers makes this possible;... Not something we would normally seek when using directional capsules for recording dialogue for film. More for music recording with omni or perhaps sound effects where you wanted the below 20Hz energy.
1:20 You've told about this "wobbly sound" that can appear when using shotgun mics in reverberant environments in other videos too, however you only explain it in words. Could you please provide examples on what to listen for/what to avoid? I love your videos
Hi Curtis, just found this, thanks for the comparison review! IMHO Sennheiser 8050 sounds the most natural for your voice in this setup. It actually also wins on the female voice in this example. The worst is AT 4053B on your voice and Schoeps CMC641 on the female voice. Thanks again!
Hi Curtis, quick question how do these compare to something like a sure sm81? I have 3 of those since i do a ton of studio band recordings. I might want to try messing around with something like this as a alternative or backup mic along side with a lav.
Hi, these each have tighter polar patterns - hyper or super-cardioid. But I think an SM81 is definitely an option for relatively tight shots where you can keep the mic within about 12-18 inches.
Hey Curtis, I finally went ahead and bought myself an mkh 8050. Still haven't been able to test it fully though. I wanted to know what suspension and/or wind protection do you use with the mkh 8050?
Hi Vipul, congratulations on the new microphone! I usually don't use the 8050 outdoors, but if I did, I'd use my Rycote Cyclone which is a windshield plus shock mount. You could use the small version.
Yes. My DPA 4017b shotgun was included in this comparison of shotgun mics: ruclips.net/video/veD8BVXV3Ls/видео.html This is the shotgun mic I use for most of my paid jobs. I also really like the DPA 4160 lavalier but have not had a chance to review it yet.
Usually two cardioid "pencil" condenser microphones like the RODE NT5. The most important thing is to position them so that the sound of the loudspeakers does not go directly back into the microphones so you don't create feedback.
I have the Rode NT5 MP mic but was wondering what would be the next major step up for audio quality for mic? I would be using mic for indoor dialogue for recording training videos primarily but would like to use it for interviews as well. I have a sibilant voice so a mic that can handle that well would be good.
Hi Michael, a super or hyper-cardioid is probably the next logical step. I found the Oktava MK-012 to work nicely with sibilant voices: ruclips.net/video/iLOp-_oIzeg/видео.html
Solid info as always Curtis!! Self-taught audio guy here - and I've been getting intermittently poor/great results on indoor interviews from my 'investment' MKH416...and now I know why, thanks to your explanation. Ugh... (the daysaver has been my redundancy audio which is a RODE Wireless GO!!!) I am pretty keen on spending yet more of my savings on either the MK 50 0r the MKH 8050 for better indoor interview audio but another brand has come up in my research for a 'pencil' mic being the Neumann KM185 (obvs it's different to the Sennys in that it's hyper cardioid and not RF biased, so not quite an apples and apples comparison). Have you ever used these and if so, anything to comment on them? Thanks in advance :)
Hi Doug, thanks. I haven't used the KM185 first hand, but that's a classic mic and there are plenty of people who are very happy with the results. And I'm still using the 8050 as my primary indoor boom. Best of wishes!
Hi Curtis, I know this an old video but it's one of the many few out there talking about the Sennheiser MKH 8050. I was so close in picking up a Sennheiser MKH 50 until I saw your video saying how the 8050 was basically the same mic but just the updated version. That has just stuck in my mind and now it's making me think of getting the 8050 instead. Firstly, if it's the updated version, then why not...plus, it's cheaper as well. I will use it mainly for indoor dialogue (short films, interviews). I just wanted to double check with you if you still think it's the best mic for indoor dialogue at that price point? I did like the sound from the MKH 50 in examples I heard where it gives a nice base sound. would that be same with the 8050? On a slightly different note, would lav mics be better to use in a noisy environment if for example I wanted to capture audio of someone talking in a very busy hall full of people? Thanks.
Hi Stu Co, We use the MKH50 at work and I use the MKH8050 for my personal projects. I find the MKH50 to be rather unforgiving on voices with a lot of mid-range energy so that the recording sounds rather harsh. The 8050 does not seem to have this same issue. I very much prefer the 8050.
Was thinking about picking up the MKH8050, but I came across the Sanken CS-M1 which is a bit cheaper than the MKH8050 and is supposed to be comparable. I have read several positive reviews on it. Anyone ever do a comparison?
I haven't. Note that they are rather different microphones. The CS-M1 is a short shotgun microphone while the MKH8050 does NOT use an interference tube design like the CS-Mi. From the samples I've heard, the prefer the Sennheiser, but again, that's only based on really subjective, stand-alone samples and not formal comparison.
@@curtisjudd Thanks for the reply! I had also thought the CS-M1 had a regular interference tube, but then I was told the technology is somehow different and it doesn't act the same as a regular shotgun. Thereby not having the phasing issues in reflective rooms. But, that is what I am curious to know about if that is indeed the case. It's also supposed to have a bit more 'reach' than the 8050.
Curtis - maybe I'm missing something: All the mics you are demoing are supercardioid (or hypercardioid for the AT4053B), so I'm confused as to why you are describing them as cardioid. Otherwise, a great review.
Sorry for the confusion, the explanation starting at 00:27 explains that I'm using "Cardioid" in a general sense here to describe boom microphones that are not shotgun microphones and have cardioid, super-cardioid, or hyper-cardioid polar patterns.
Hi Mr Judd ... I have a question that requires your experience...... Would a very good preamp, improve the sound quality of a not too expensive microphone?
Would you pick a Rode NT 1 over any of these boom mics (or others) for indoor dialog? I bought one because of its low self noise. But it does pick a low of low rumble and I have to cut the
Hi Curtis, hope you’re well. I wanted to ask if you would be able create a video or shed some light on how you achieve that blue background as well as the blue right light around you face. I normally use Philips hue bulbs for the background, but I get too much light spill from my key light. Thank you. -Samar Ali Khan
Hi Samar, yes, a tutorial is on my list. The short version: Use tungsten colored key light, white balance the camera to tungsten, then use a daylight or cooler colored light on the white paper backdrop. More to come.
I’m buying the cmc641 for shooting one person interviews and I’m wondering what your advice would be for an audio recorder for less than $2000. I was thinking of either zoom f8n or mixpre 3. Or do you have any other recommendation that would work well with cmc6?
Hi Curtis, a lot of thanks for your helpful videos. I am a voiceover artist and I spend most of my time traveling by caravan. so i get my recordings inside the trailer. i wanna buy 8050, do you recommend? or Which microphone would you recommend to me?
did Schoeps ever get the audio kinks worked out of the CMC6. i know a lot of mixers in hollywood went back to the Schoeps CMC5 or should i say had a new/old one made?
If you are dirt broke and looking for a microphone for indoor dialogue check out the Samson C02 small diaphragm condenser microphone. The audio is not as pristine as any of these microphones but it will get you 90% of the way for 10% of the cost.
Hi Curtis, good test. I would ask you a thing about noise measurements average RMS you often do. I found 2 recording mics with these noise (after normalizing them): www.sendspace.com/file/v440un noise1 has MaxMinRMS -54.61-68.04__averageRMS -62.15 noise2 has MaxMinRMS -59.91-67.71__averageRMS -64.01 If you look only at these data you can make the assumption that noise2 mic is better than 1! INSTEAD hear it! Noise1 is LOT better than 2!! The point is noise1 have a max RMS -54 (maybe a very short peak) whilst noise2 only -59 and this will count in the average. But the result is totally wrong! So, I'm doubtful on this RMS test to compare noises...
Hi, thanks and you bring up a good point. I have not found a really good way to measure noise without electronic measurement devices (and I'm not especially skilled in electronics). So yes, the RMS method is not perfect. However max is not useful either since human hearing is closer to RMS. I wanted to show the frequency response (RTA) view of the noise floor sections of the audio. I think where in the spectrum the noise falls is part of the difference. But overall, with all three of these mics, we are hearing mostly actual noise that was in the recording room and they each color what is recorded of that noise (note the Sennheiser's peak in the 16-20kHz range). I'm still very much open to suggestions and I agree that the RMS measure is not perfect or maybe even useful.
Yes, I was not referring to these mics in particular: they are all very good mics, so the noise is quite equal and not a problem. But the files I uploaded show that a great, quite noise free, like noise1 NT1a should be worse than the noise2 mic that is an Aputure a.Lav, looking on RMS... that's impossible of course and it can be heared infact! I think I found 2 better ways: 1) could be infact the frequency response analysis: imgur.com/QN0sVDu noise1 is red, noise2 is orange here you can see noise1 is better in the most hearing freq even like 10dB diff! So this should be more real than RMS... 2) More, if you zoom a lot the noises you get this: noise1= imgur.com/hISD4zI noise2= imgur.com/CDgTklG It can be seen the noisiest have a thicker waveform than the Rode, more clean and thin, so I think more hearable sound.
The thing I notice most, and this is listening on an inexpensive pair of Sony on-ear headphones, the Sennheiser seems to have a slightly fuller feel with a bit more bass response compared to the Schoeps and AT, and both the Sennheiser and Schoeps are much cleaner sounding than the AT, which seems like it'd be expected for the price difference. All sound fantastic though.
Thanks for that. Yes, the Sennheiser seems to work best for my voice from my perspective but I think the Schoeps is probably more "truthful". And I agree, all three are quite good.
Hey Curtis, huge fan here! I just saw the new sE7 SDC and was wondering if it would perform better than the Samson C02, could you give me your opinion? I live in south america and have a friend traveling to europe who could bring me one of them. Thanks in advance!
Hey Reg, thanks! Unfortunately I haven’t used the sE so I don’t have personal experience with it. But I’ve heard good things about their mics. Best wishes!
Thanks for the reply Curtis, anyway you make me confident that the C02 is a fair choice for my needs and budget. I’m sure it will perform well, as your tests portray.
Both are good, but it depends on the sound you want. The 8050 has less midrange and often sounds better directly out of the recorder on most voices to my ears.
@@khoonchaii-businessonlines5467 Probably the 8050, but no boom mic sounds quite like the SM7B simply because one usually positions the SM7B so much closer. I don't want to give you the impression that the 8050 is just like the Shure. It isn't. But between the two, I think it is closer.
Hey Curtis, what is the reach difference like on the 8050 vs the Schoeps? I'm considering buying either a CMC641 or an 8050... but I'm worried if spending the additional $500CAD for a CMC is worth it over the 8050. So many mixers have trusted the Schoeps for so long, and I haven't seen any 8050 testimonials anywhere. The frequency response up close seems too similar to tell the difference, I think my deciding factor will be the reach. Thanks for the videos!
Hi Nathan, the concept of "reach" when talking about microphones is a bit misleading. Really it is a consideration of how directional the microphone's polar/pickup pattern is relative to another microphone. The white noise samples here show that they're quite similar. So from that point of view, they each have similar "reach". My take is that if you want a less colored sound and you will not be regularly recording in especially humid environments, the Schoeps is great. If you light the slightly colored/warmer sound or will be recording in very humid environs, the Sennheiser is probably the better choice. I hope that helps!
Thanks for this! I live in British Columbia, we get fairly radical humidity shifts throughout the year. I'll have to talk with more local mixers/boom ops to see if their Schoeps have had issues.
That's just a white paper roll: bhpho.to/2kNP1xO Then I light it with various lights to get the different effects, sometimes the same color temperature as the key light, other times with a much cooler temp light so that it appears blue.
Hi Lewis, I don't have enough experience with the MKE 600 to have an opinion on it. But lots of people seem to like it and there are several reviews here on RUclips which cover it. Best wishes!
@@curtisjudd thanks, I got it on impulse for a job which ended up not even happening so I was considering selling it for a ngt 3. I'm also going to get the at4053b on your recommendation and I'm going to purchase your mix pre 3 class :)
Great content as always! If I can buy only one microphone for RUclips, indoor, out of frame boomed above my head, in a non-sound-treated (though not too echoey) room which microphone would you recommend? RODE NTG5+MixPre3 or Schoeps CMC641 (with the Schoeps is it a must to have a MixPre3 also)? Or something else? (Max. budget: 1500-2000 USD) Thanks!
@@curtisjudd Thanks a lot! So great to hear that the NTG5 is a good option (and I've been in love with the MixPre - such a great relief that I can pull the trigger on that one - thanks again!)
What if you wrap the interference tube of a shotgun microphone with soundproof material, will it perform better than the indoor boom cardioid microphones?
Hi Curtis, one question, but first, I've watched many of your videos, and want to thank you for such solid yet concise information. So helpful. Thank you... Okay, in short, I have created a RUclips studio, it's time to decide on a solid mic for indoor recording talking head and occasional interview videos in a modestly sound-treated garage studio. I see all these reviews and RUclipsrs talking and using long tube shotgun mics...not outdoors, but indoors, in seemingly controlled, talking head environments. What gives? Are they just using them incorrectly...IE, they should be going for a boom mic like you review here instead of a shotgun mic, or maybe perhaps using them outside (without mentioning that), or maybe they are using the shotguns because they have a completely untreated recording space, what? The three boom mics you review in this video all seem great, and I'm strongly considering one, but what am i missing?
Hi, Shotgun microphones *can* be used indoors but when they are, they risk producing an effect that does not affect non-shotgun microphones: Off axis phase interference. This occurs with shotgun microphones when the sound source (person talking) is slightly off to the side of the front of the mic and there is enough reverberation in the room ("echo"). What happens is that the mic captures this with a warbling sort of sound to the voice. It only happens if all of these factors line up perfectly, but it is an effect that cannot be fixed in post. For this reason, many pro location sound mixers will not use shotgun microphones indoors. Some still do and in most circumstances are fine, it is simply a risk you take on when you do use a shotgun mic indoors. So if all of your shooting will be indoors, I'd recommend going with one like the three we reviewed here and avoid that risk altogether. Best wishes!
Hi, What's best type of microphones to go for less mic bleed? This is the situation: Four people sitting back to back, close to each other and facing their own camera (4) while each of them can't see the others person in that same room. ---------------------------- | * | | 1 | | v | |* 3 > < 2 * | | ^ | | 4 | | * | ------------------------------- *=Camera (Numbers are persons who let's say face the wall but has his/her own mics and 5 feet distant to each mic) All of them record at the same time and mostly talking together with each other. Thanks.
Hi Iman, it depends on a few factors including how the room sounds (is it particularly reverberant?) and how much the people will be moving. If they don't move a lot, lavs may be best. If the room is not particularly reverberant, super-cardioid boom might be best.
![Cody Johnson - I'm Gonna Love You (with Carrie Underwood) [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/yy9PuYMU29g/mqdefault.jpg)
I have used the Audio Technica AT4053B for a number of years and never had any issues with it until we flew recently for an indie feature film shoot in New York City. We filmed in 7 interior locations, and in 3 of those locations, the AT4053B experienced very bad RF interference. I don't know the source, we were not using wireless gear on-set and everyone on-set had their cell phones off or on flight mode. NYC is full of wi-fi signals of all kinds etc. The interference was so bad, it ruined the AT4053B boom audio at two of the locations we filmed at. In the worst locations, it kicked in every 10-20 seconds making capturing clear audio impossible. Thankfully we had on-camera Rode NTG mics and they captured great audio and did not suffer the same RF interference issues the AT4053B did. If it had not been for the backup Rodes, we would have been screwed...
Thanks for sharing, Paul!
Enjoyed the video Curtis. To be honest, when you consider the price of the AT4053B, it likely offers the best price to performance ratio and one I would have no issues picking up in the future. But of course if your doing million dollar productions, then it make sense to use the Sennheiser or Schoeps as they are better.
Joe's Photo & Video Channel I have both capsules, cardioid and hyper. Use them all the time if I an indoors. I think they represent good value.
Agreed for micro and no-budget productions, the AT is amazing. Once one is doing paid work as a location sound mixer, the investment in the Sennheiser and Schoeps makes sense (they are, after all, a LOT less expensive than what most enthusiast filmmakers spend on many of their pro-level zoom lenses)
Curtis Judd agreed.
Oh my...did you read my mind?! This video is exactly what I have been looking for!
I don't think so but glad it helped!
Thanks for the very detailed explanation! Very cool and timely. I am looking to buy a new mic for my new RUclips/Green Screen Studio. In my setup the ideal place for the mic is over top of the camera which is about 8 feet away from me. I have a Samson Pencil Condenser mic which is going through my mixing board, to my computer.
At this distance, the sound is not great, I have to add way too much gain to pick me up, and then the mic it too live.
I did find that the ideal placement for it would be a ceiling mount just out of frame...about 3-4 feet from my standing position.
So that is option 1...or I could get a shotgun mic.
The question is, for the room I described, is there a particular mic you would recommend for this room?
No, I’d stick with a pencil condenser but get it closer. Within 18 inches will give the best results, but anything closer than 8 feet will be an improvement.
Curtis, why do you persist with the 4053b when the 4051b is a cardiod? On paper isnt the 4051b the better option for indoor boom because of more rear rejection? Is there a reason everyone seems to go for the 4053b instead for indoor speech?
Hi Alan, generally for production sound, most mixers prefer a super cardioid polar pattern (or hyper in the case of the AT) for its more directional front. There are no hard and fast rules but cardioid polar patterns often do not have as much "reach" because of their wider pickup on the front. But again, do what works for you. There aren't any rules saying you cannot use a cardioid.
@@curtisjudd ok thanks.
Man, when they sound is subjective and there's no one perfect mic they're not lying. I like how the Sennheiser sounded on Curtis but preferred the AT4053b for his wife's voice. I'm looking into buying a mic for indoor dialogue for my work and man, there's a lot of hearing one needs to do but most important keep in mind, sound is really subjective. I own the MKH 416 and man that thing shines in outdoors. Clearest audio without much need for processing. For indoors, not such a good idea. Overall, I appreciate your videos Curtis.
Thanks!
I would love to watch 2020 remake of this video. Hint hint..... :) I’m in the market for a high quality indoor mic, to make videos just like yours (male talking head “interview“).
The MKH8050 is still my indoor boom mic of choice in 2020. So that's good news - nothing to update, at least as of now. 😀
@@curtisjudd can the 8050 be used for Foley? I'm starting my first one man band, short film. I have the budget for one mic, I have the TL47 Lav now. I was considering the 416, but after watching your videos, I'm leaning more toward 8050/8060. Most of the scenes are indoors, or quiet outdoor (evening/night). Any input would be appreciated. Thanks!
@@misterunfocused7818 Yes, certainly you could use the 8050 for foley. Just keep in mind that its polar pattern is a bit wider than the 8060 or most other shotgun microphones. "Forgiving" is one way to describe it. But also, "Not as Focused". The 8050 is my favorite to use for indoor dialogue when the space is quiet.
@@curtisjudd thanks for the response. I looked at some more videos by you and I'm thinking what might be more appropriate for my budget and shooting situation, is a second TL47 lav, and an NTG5. I appreciate your input, and your videos, so thank you again
Thank you Curtis! What is the main difference between the mkh50 and the mkh8050? Can the 8050 be used interchangeably?
Sigh... I'm sitting here with Dynaudio Monitors and can't hear the difference lol. Maybe it's just my years.
That's potentially good news - all of them very good. You might also try headphones. Often you can hear a bigger difference in quality over-ear headphones.
does the schoeps cmc1 with mk41k capsule have rf protection your referring to ? the schoeps cmc6 doesn't have same rf protections ? why do u use the 8050 more than Cheops cmc6?
Great techniques for comparing mic's and isolating the different categories of performance. I always learn something from your videos.
Thanks!
So this may be one of the only samples of the MKH 8050 on RUclips, and I think it might be the only English one. It was actually pretty helpful, I recently bought an MKH 8050, will be using my Oktavas for back ups/crash mics. Honestly I hate the sound of the MKH50, but I really like the 8050 for the much more natural high end.
I agree - I prefer the 8050 over the 50 as well.
Thanks Curtis for the great video! I’ve been using the AT4053B for about 4 years now and it’s been a great workhorse. Obviously there are some better microphones out there, but for the price I’m very happy. However, I would definitely recommend picking up another mic windshield though as the included one is quite thin!
Thanks Matt, good point on the windshield.
What could be better than AT4053B?
Hi Curtis, I’m looking to shed some weight ti my boom set up. I currently have a mkh4060 but would like to replace it for a 8050 or even an 8040 ( I prefer a slightly wider cardiod). Two questions please are all the MKH range 60 50 40’s are they the same diameter thickness ( not length ) as I don’t want to buy new suspension if possible. Second question what did you notice about the reach difference between Cardioid such as 40 or 50 compared to shotgun MKH 416 or 4060, would I be fine to swing a cardiod inside and exterior? Would I need to get in closer to talent with a cardiod or it’s pretty similar ?
Many thanks
I believe they are the same diameter, but the lyres need to be optimized based on microphone weight. Cardioids are fine outdoors, in my experience. Always keep it as close as you reasonably can.
Have you used your 8050 in car scenes or do you use something else. I'm looking at the 8050 for using in as many scenarios as possible for that price 😁
I usually use lavs up in the visors but the 8050 could do the job nicely.
This helped make my decision to get the 8050 and it paid off on the first shoot after I got it when there were a couple surprise two-person interviews. I was able to put it in the middle and they both sounded great. Definitely better results than my Rode NT3 would would have managed. I'm curious if you have spent much time with the MKH 8060 and MKH 8070 - I'm looking for a shotgun I can pair with the 8050 in noisier environments - figured they'd match the closest tonally.
Glad to hear the 8050 works well for you 👍 I haven’t worked directly with the 8060 or 8070.
No Audix SCX-1? Good video anyway :)
The Audix SCX-1HC Seems to perform pretty well even when in the "Scoop" position. Something my Oktava MK-012 with Hyper Cardiod dose not. After finding the Audix SCX-1HC I stopped looking for an interior dialogue mic. It really performs extremely well.
We covered that with similarly priced microphones here: ruclips.net/video/q-b_1gOYOEQ/видео.html
Thank you Curtis Judd. Some how I missed that one. I very much appreciate your reviews and approach to conducting A/V gear assessments.
Audix SCX-1HC is an excellent budget choice. AT4053B was a good mic but had to return due to the low vibrating frequency pick up issue Curtis mentioned.
Curtis wondering if you have had issues with increased sibilance with talent. I have had a few jobs where I would let the producer listen to the difference between my shotgun and my dialog mic and they would prefer the dialog mic but the sibilance would be an issue, however this for the most part is easy to remove as long as your post production has budget for it. Have you run into this issue.
Hey Jared, yes, all the time. And some microphones are definitely more sensitive in the sibilance range. On most of the productions I work on, I choose the boom mic we're going to use and often I try to get a sense for that while I'm putting the talent's lavalier on them. And sometimes, it just needs to be handled in post with a de-esser. If the producer is making that decision from a comtek feed, I'd be pretty wary and would at least have them use my headphones directly from the mixer to have a better listen.
You must be working with some amazing producers if they care enough about audio to actually want to hear various microphones and choose which to use. :)
Well it took a few years but after doing dozens of interviews and getting a good sense of where our business was headed, we finally decided to take the next step and invest in a high-end Boom mic for indoor dialogue. Thanks to your advice we invested in the MKH 8050 and my world has changed forever. Thank you for all your videos and advice, and I can't think of a purchase I've ever been happier with! It was very helpful to make a well-informed decision and the 8050 is the perfect fit for what we do these days. Cheers
So glad to hear the Sennheiser works well for you! Happy recording!
The schoeps sound so good, maybe because the "lack" of low frequencies improves the clarity, but the schoeps sound is smooth !
👍
What about the Sennheiser MKE600 and MKH416 indoor used?
Got those covered over here: ruclips.net/video/KVaKstb35LQ/видео.htmlfeature=shared
Thanks 🙏🏽 for another terrific comparison. To my ears 👂🏼 the 8050 sounds warmer and more pleasing out of the three.
Thanks Carlos! I agree, on my voice the 8050 is the most flattering. On most jobs I start with the Schoeps (and it sounds great on the majority of voices) but every once in a while, the 8050 is the best choice.
It has a very natural sound, I think.
Rarely did something so small do so much good ... at such a high price.
Why they all sound distorted radio-like? Including the mic you use throughout the video. I checked on macbook, iphone, headphones. Its not much, but am I the only one noticing it ?
That is my mid-range focused voice - resonances at approximately 1kHz and 2kHz.
The Schoeps sounds a bit more natural than the other two, but definitely any of the three would be fine for most applications.
👍
I would say, "**may** be the truth." :)Great vid, exactly what I was looking for.
👍
I am curious if you think I should get one of these expensive Mics from my situation. I'm going to be recording someone in a Room where there is a road nearby and you can hear cars every now and then going by. I have a rode pin mic and Senhieser g3 lav system. I also have a rode NTG. So far the rode pin lav mic sounds the best. Do you think one of these mics in your video would sound better than my rate pin mic? The room is 16' wide by 28' long. The road nearby as all times of rumbling and voom sounds in various frequencies.
And if it helps this is the person I will be videoing ruclips.net/video/kC4DP7CIgEE/видео.html
In this video we are using the Senhieser lav system but it's using the kit Mic not the rode pin. I think the rode sounds better
My bet is that the Pinmic will pick up less ambient noise than a boom mic. Booms generally pick up a bit more ambient sound, part of the reason they sound more "natural".
Hi Curtis, very nice comparison thank you! In a later comparison if you do can you please add the Sanken CS-M1 witch I am kinda leaning of buying lately because is great on a boom for interiors and it's great on cam too.
Thanks. Will need to find a way to buy a CS-M1. 🤓
@@curtisjudd Yes sorry, I though you had some easy ways to get gear for free ;-)! After all you are in my opinion the best audio gear reviewer out there . Thank you for your answer I am looking to get more info on this mic because it looks like a great allrounder (interior dialogue(less prone to reverb and room sounds) , on cam (good side isolation and great focus, and sooo short and light), and can easily double as an instrument mic for someone like me who does a lot of live music recordings. And its a Sanken! We all know they don't do bad mics. This one is well isolated and quiet and probably well made.
Hi Curtis, thank you for all your informative videos!
I would like to shoot a series of video interviews, with only one subject (average male non-sibilant voice) in my moderate acoustically treated home-studio. The interviews will be used for a documentary, and some only as voice-over (without image). After some EQ my aim is a rich, warm, “bigger than live” voice.
My idea is to put a voice over-mic (such as ElectroVoice RE20) sideways of the mouth, not covering the face (so I can edit it out of the shot in post production).
1) Would this achieve a better result compared to Sennheiser 8050 or Schoeps?
2) When applying EQ anyways, would I be able to achieve a similar result with a less expensive mic (if so, which one)?
Thank you.
Hi Udo, dynamic microphones like the RE20 really need to be within about 4 inches of the mouth of the person talking to sound right. I don't think you'll be able to put it out of frame and achieve the sound you want. That's where one of these pencil condenser mics will do a lot better.
Thanks for your excellent revoiws! I´ve seen lots of them and they are truly awesome. I'm thinking about buying a hypercardioid, for a while the AT 4053B was on my to-buy-list, but now I've started to think about the Schoeps 641 and the DPA 4018 also... More expensive, yes, but if they are better, then maybee... Have you done any comparison between the Schoeps 641 and the DPA 4018, and if so, what´s your opinion?
Hi Mattias, I have the DPA 4017B shotgun but have not used the 4018. Based on comparisons I've heard, it sounds very good but since I already have the Schoeps, I cannot quite justify the 4018 in my budget, at least for the moment. Ty Ford did a nice comparison over here if you're interested: ruclips.net/video/3rR4wqqMoc8/видео.html
Good comparison! The AT definitely offers a lot of value for that price but tbh the other mics are better just on the more expensive side.
+GansoFlair thanks! I agree, the AT is very good value. I’m not selling it. :)
Hey Curtis, really stuck between the Sennheiser 8050 and the MKH 50 for indoor dialogue. Am I overthinking or does one have an advantage over the other?
Hi Dillon, I have used the MKH50, but not extensively. All I can say is that having used both of them, and the 8050 fairly extensively, I have no regrets going with the 8050.
@@curtisjudd Thanks for the quick reply, you have a lifetime subscriber
Curtis how the 8050 compares to the mkh50 for indoors RUclips videos (talking heads)? Thanks for the video!
Here’s my comparison: ruclips.net/video/CqasOA0kFno/видео.htmlfeature=shared
Thanks Curtis, always appreciate your help and efforts to share your knowledge!🎉
The man - does it again! Great job Curtis!
Thanks!
This is the second video you've made where I've disliked the MKH8050 on your voice - the other one was the automix test. Schoeps was lovely, audio technica did really well. It would be interesting to hear them in a slightly livelier location. That said I'm choosing pleasant sounding realism over radio announcer. Ah well....
Fair assessment!
Lets have some green screen fun with Curtis' jacket. 😃
I’m waiting.
Curt, you my Ol buddy Ol Pal Ol friend are the best.
Thanks Pal!
When you shoot these youtube videos, what are you using to boom the mic over your head? Would it also be suitable for a wider shot than the one you're showing here in this video? If not, what solution would you recommend for booming a wider shot on a solo operation where the talent is sitting still?
I'm using a K-tek boom pole on a century stand. If I wanted to go wider, I'd either use a lavalier or this technique for static shots: ruclips.net/video/FUJ07WF-x30/видео.html
@@curtisjudd ..
@@useruser2957 ..
@@curtisjudd 8050 or mkh50?
@@wcsdiaries Usually the MKH8050.
Hi, "Akg p170 " mic is good for indoor dialogues? Please lemme know...
Yes, though a little on the noisy side
@@curtisjudd thank you so much, making a shortfilm so I bought one...
Great video Curtis. Thinking of getting the MKH-8050 for weddings (indoors). Currently use a MKH-416. Love the MKH-416, but too long for my Canon C70 when using certain lens combinations which can show in the footage. Would you still recommend the 8050 or do you suggest another mic to look at. Thanks
I really like the 8050 and use it all the time, but note that its polar pattern is not nearly as focused as the MKH416. So it can pick up a bit more ambient sound/noise.
Call me crazy, but I can't tell the difference on the dialogue test between the three with two different pairs of reference headphones, trying with an external USB audio interface on my laptop, again straight into the laptop headphone jack (noticeably worse reproduction on all three direct from the laptop, so my ears aren't broken), and again with both pairs of headphones connected to my phone via USB-C adapter.
However, I can clearly tell the difference between the mics on your "5 Boom Microphones for Indoor Dialogue". What gives?
(Unrelated, but the AT4053B was my least favorite from that video. My best guess is that the other two mics sound very much like it - more broadcast-y and darker, less natural.)
On the female voice, I couldn't hear much difference. On my voice, the Sennheiser has a bit more bass response than the other two. The Schoeps seemed to emphasize my sibilance. The AT seemed most balanced on my voice. Of course, every voice is different so the different mics will favor different voices. In short, the differences are quite subtle. So if most of your audience isn't going to be listening to your content on high quality playback systems (e.g., phone speakers, earbuds, in-built mics on laptops or TVs) then none of these are going to make much of a difference.
Hello! What kind of shock mount you suggest to use with mkh8050?
Rycote lyre
@@curtisjudd Ok, I'll try Cinela Minix 8000
whats the difference between mkh 8050 and mkh50
We cover that here: ruclips.net/video/CqasOA0kFno/видео.html
My favorite interior mic is the MKH 50, it seems to have a little bit more bite than the scheops, which is also a great mic. The Audio Technica seems great for the price though.
I agree - the 50 definitely sounds a bit more aggressive. Great sound for the right piece.
Finally some info on the 8050! Great video, as always. Kudos
Thanks!
Sennheiser had the most isolation, albeit narrowly. The Schoeps however seemed to capture higher end better. Having said that, I went with the MKH 8050 for the size
All good.
ok i will not spend much in microphones
Ok, good luck.
Hi. Great reviews. I need a versatile microphone that I can use indoors and outdoors. What mic would you recommend. Money is not an issue. Thank you in advance.
The RODE NTG3 or the Sennheiser MKH416 or if money really isn’t an issue, BPA 4017B.
I thoughts the AT4053b made the mids of your voice sound a little crunchier/fuzzier. MKH8050 has a muddier bass response than the 641 but that's easy to mend with the rolloff filter or in post.
Thanks. Interesting observations.
Have you ever reviewed the Sennheiser E614 as an indoor dialogue microphone? Can't seem to find many good reviews of it. Even though its specifications are unimpressive, I really liked its sound in the few reviews I could find.
I haven’t. So many mics, so little time…
Hello Curtis. Is too late for asking, but I hope that you can see my question. Ok, I have $500 and I need a good mic for interior, dialogue, I know that you favorite is AT but, I no have more money for spending. i spend a lot money at items for movies, is a project, short movie, but I need a good sonic for interior. I have a Zoom F4. what is my best option?
The Deity S-Mic 2S is good: ruclips.net/video/n2dbpwbAP4M/видео.html
I’d love to know if you or anyone you know has ever used an AKG 451b for indoor dialogue. I own a stereo pair which I’ve used on instrument recording but didn’t know your thoughts for dialogue.
I haven't, but I've used other cardioid pencil condenser mics before with good results - if you boom them fairly closely. I'd encourage you to do some test recordings and see what you think.
So, probably like others I normally wouldn't comment, fearing my perspective and relative lack of knowledge compared to others would be a poor cousin and no help to anyone. But I wanted to take the time to thank you for your extremely helpful explanations and clear information. It helped me to decipher the many offerings, seem half knowledgeable in store and finally pull the trigger on the MKH8050 which, while probably a little overkill for my situation, has solved my audio struggles with a horrible studio area and battling a Video Mic, NTG2 and sensitivity issue of an Oktava. The Expense is all relative though. Was it worth it ?...... every penny, dime, nickel or cent whatever currency matters as now I just don't have to worry about that one thing anymore. So, many thanks from me down here in Australia, I really appreciate you and your channel and i will keep subscribed !
Thanks and glad the 8050 is working well for you!
Oddly enough, comparing listens with headphones vs phone speakers I can actually hear a little more difference on my phone speakers. Lol
The Senn is clearly darker than the other two on both platforms but the difference I can hear between the AT and Schoeps is that the AT sounds very mildly more robotic, the Schoeps sounds very natural but I’m not sure what it is about the AT but it sounds a touch artificially boosted in the upper ranges. If I weren’t explicitly listening for differences I probably wouldn’t have noticed, but for me it is there. Great comparison.
Thanks, interesting that you heard more of a difference on phone speakers!
Excelente. I'm Brazíliam
👍
Really nice review and comparison. The measurement tests were interesting and rarely seen in other videos. I have two 8050 mics for interior dialog (sometimes use two booms) and also a 8040 for getting dialog between two talents close to each other talking to camera or to each other. Tests I heard by a pro mixer showed the MKH8050 and MKH50 sound identical up to about 18 inches from talent, beyond that distance the 50 sounded better. The only problem with using the 8050 is that it is so short that it can be difficult to mount or use it with a larger windscreen, normally I use the Sennheiser windscreen that came with the mic which is a good design but will not prevent boom swing wind sound. I use the Rycote INV 3 which works well enough. I also have a Cinela mount which is stupid expensive but sounds about the same as the INV 3. But I also use a thin Canare mic cable rather than the usual thick cables made to drag around on a stage floor. This needed to provide proper mechanical isolation when using the 8050 in a Rycote mount.
+RallenMan thanks Allen, good info. I need to invest in the canare cable. Interesting re: the 50 and 8050.
I love the canare L-4e6s star quad cable, used to work on film floors alot with electrical wires everywhere, after I made the switch, electrical interference is a thing of the past. And have noticed a huge reduction in rf interference.
A while ago since this video. I'm about to invest in my first real indoor mic for corporate interviews. Would the 8050 be a good choice or anything newer since this video you would recommend me to research?
The Sennheiser MKH50 is another option (older, actually) that has a bit more "reach" than the 8050, but also sounds a bit more "in your face" than the 8050. Samples here - ruclips.net/video/JXTpL4Ovr2I/видео.html
@@curtisjudd tyvm 🙏 can I also conclude I can't go wrong with the 8050? Any extras needed? Like capsules. For typical conferenceroom interviews?
Dear sir
Please we have small choir 20 people
Also we have sound graft signature mixer
So please suggestion which mic suitable
RODE NT5 pair.
When I see a Curtis Judd vid, that I already watched after buying a microphone featured in the vid, I leave another comment.
Congratulations on the new microphone! Which did you add to your kit?
For female indoor dialogue would you go with the Schoeps in this video or a Sennheisser mkh50?
I would opt for the MKH8050, personally. I find it sounds great on almost all voices. I find the MKH50 a little too harsh on some voices.
Do you ever heard of lewitt lct 340 or shure ksm 137? I don't know anything about mic for film use, but i'm sure it should be suitable for indoor-booming needs. Hope you could review any of those too.
Hi Aditya, thanks for the tip on the Lewitt and Shure. I'll have a look at them.
What techniques did you use to get that shadowing of the 2 of you ? That was really cool. I want to do that as well.
#CurtisJudd @CurtisJudd
Light on the back wall, no light on the subject like this: ruclips.net/video/a1F-7f-IryY/видео.html
Do you know the difference between the Shoeps CMC641 and the Schoeps CMC 6 Ug? The second one is $200 more expensive and I'd like to know if it's worth paying extra for it.
I didn't, but found this to describe how the Colette 6 U differs from the 6 which we reviewed here:
Apart from the standard CMC 6 version, Special versions of the CMC 6 U are available.
CMC 6 U linear
The CMC 6 U microphone amplifier normally has a gradual rolloff in response below 20 Hz to guard against infrasonic disturbances from various sources such as air movement and vibration. However, when using pressure (omnidirectional) transducers, particularly with digital recording, it can be desirable to pick up frequencies below 20 Hz without attenuation. The special technology of the CMC 6 U linear microphone amplifiers makes this possible;...
Not something we would normally seek when using directional capsules for recording dialogue for film. More for music recording with omni or perhaps sound effects where you wanted the below 20Hz energy.
@@curtisjudd Great info! Thank you so much! Definitely going for the 641.
1:20 You've told about this "wobbly sound" that can appear when using shotgun mics in reverberant environments in other videos too, however you only explain it in words. Could you please provide examples on what to listen for/what to avoid? I love your videos
Warbly like a bird. Yes, I’ll do that in a future video
Hi Curtis, just found this, thanks for the comparison review! IMHO Sennheiser 8050 sounds the most natural for your voice in this setup. It actually also wins on the female voice in this example. The worst is AT 4053B on your voice and Schoeps CMC641 on the female voice. Thanks again!
👍
Hi Curtis, quick question how do these compare to something like a sure sm81? I have 3 of those since i do a ton of studio band recordings. I might want to try messing around with something like this as a alternative or backup mic along side with a lav.
Hi, these each have tighter polar patterns - hyper or super-cardioid. But I think an SM81 is definitely an option for relatively tight shots where you can keep the mic within about 12-18 inches.
@@curtisjudd thansk for the quick response. Ill try it out and probrably pick up one of theese than
Hey Curtis, I finally went ahead and bought myself an mkh 8050. Still haven't been able to test it fully though. I wanted to know what suspension and/or wind protection do you use with the mkh 8050?
Hi Vipul, congratulations on the new microphone! I usually don't use the 8050 outdoors, but if I did, I'd use my Rycote Cyclone which is a windshield plus shock mount. You could use the small version.
Nice video,I thought that the Sennheiser 8050 was like an hybryd between the 416 and the mkh50, could be?
Thans, I agree. The 8050 is quite similar to the 416 and 50.
Have you ever reviewed any DPA mics?
Yes. My DPA 4017b shotgun was included in this comparison of shotgun mics: ruclips.net/video/veD8BVXV3Ls/видео.html
This is the shotgun mic I use for most of my paid jobs. I also really like the DPA 4160 lavalier but have not had a chance to review it yet.
What type of mic is suitable for choir singing facing audience with the pa speakers also face same direction to the sitting audience?
Usually two cardioid "pencil" condenser microphones like the RODE NT5. The most important thing is to position them so that the sound of the loudspeakers does not go directly back into the microphones so you don't create feedback.
I have the Rode NT5 MP mic but was wondering what would be the next major step up for audio quality for mic? I would be using mic for indoor dialogue for recording training videos primarily but would like to use it for interviews as well. I have a sibilant voice so a mic that can handle that well would be good.
Hi Michael, a super or hyper-cardioid is probably the next logical step. I found the Oktava MK-012 to work nicely with sibilant voices: ruclips.net/video/iLOp-_oIzeg/видео.html
have the AT mic, but replaced the hypercardiod elemt with a cardiod one so there's NO pickup from the rear of the mic.
Nice!
Solid info as always Curtis!! Self-taught audio guy here - and I've been getting intermittently poor/great results on indoor interviews from my 'investment' MKH416...and now I know why, thanks to your explanation. Ugh... (the daysaver has been my redundancy audio which is a RODE Wireless GO!!!) I am pretty keen on spending yet more of my savings on either the MK 50 0r the MKH 8050 for better indoor interview audio but another brand has come up in my research for a 'pencil' mic being the Neumann KM185 (obvs it's different to the Sennys in that it's hyper cardioid and not RF biased, so not quite an apples and apples comparison). Have you ever used these and if so, anything to comment on them? Thanks in advance :)
Hi Doug, thanks. I haven't used the KM185 first hand, but that's a classic mic and there are plenty of people who are very happy with the results. And I'm still using the 8050 as my primary indoor boom. Best of wishes!
Hi Curtis, I know this an old video but it's one of the many few out there talking about the Sennheiser MKH 8050. I was so close in picking up a Sennheiser MKH 50 until I saw your video saying how the 8050 was basically the same mic but just the updated version. That has just stuck in my mind and now it's making me think of getting the 8050 instead. Firstly, if it's the updated version, then why not...plus, it's cheaper as well. I will use it mainly for indoor dialogue (short films, interviews). I just wanted to double check with you if you still think it's the best mic for indoor dialogue at that price point? I did like the sound from the MKH 50 in examples I heard where it gives a nice base sound. would that be same with the 8050?
On a slightly different note, would lav mics be better to use in a noisy environment if for example I wanted to capture audio of someone talking in a very busy hall full of people?
Thanks.
Hi Stu Co, We use the MKH50 at work and I use the MKH8050 for my personal projects. I find the MKH50 to be rather unforgiving on voices with a lot of mid-range energy so that the recording sounds rather harsh. The 8050 does not seem to have this same issue. I very much prefer the 8050.
@@curtisjudd Hi Curtis. Thank you very much for your reply. Much appreciated 👍
Was thinking about picking up the MKH8050, but I came across the Sanken CS-M1 which is a bit cheaper than the MKH8050 and is supposed to be comparable. I have read several positive reviews on it. Anyone ever do a comparison?
I haven't. Note that they are rather different microphones. The CS-M1 is a short shotgun microphone while the MKH8050 does NOT use an interference tube design like the CS-Mi. From the samples I've heard, the prefer the Sennheiser, but again, that's only based on really subjective, stand-alone samples and not formal comparison.
@@curtisjudd Thanks for the reply! I had also thought the CS-M1 had a regular interference tube, but then I was told the technology is somehow different and it doesn't act the same as a regular shotgun. Thereby not having the phasing issues in reflective rooms. But, that is what I am curious to know about if that is indeed the case. It's also supposed to have a bit more 'reach' than the 8050.
@@paulndorosh Ah, ok, interesting...
Curtis - maybe I'm missing something: All the mics you are demoing are supercardioid (or hypercardioid for the AT4053B), so I'm confused as to why you are describing them as cardioid. Otherwise, a great review.
Sorry for the confusion, the explanation starting at 00:27 explains that I'm using "Cardioid" in a general sense here to describe boom microphones that are not shotgun microphones and have cardioid, super-cardioid, or hyper-cardioid polar patterns.
@@curtisjudd Oh, I see. Many thanks!
Hi Mr Judd ... I have a question that requires your experience......
Would a very good preamp, improve the sound quality of a not too expensive microphone?
A little. It won’t fix a poor quality mic but will help it operate at its best.
Would you pick a Rode NT 1 over any of these boom mics (or others) for indoor dialog? I bought one because of its low self noise. But it does pick a low of low rumble and I have to cut the
All mics will pick up some sub 100Hz rumble and I recommend just using a high pass/low cut filter.
@@curtisjudd Thank you
If i could subscribe again and again I will till u get 100k hehe
good review Curtis! As always! =)
Haha, thanks Mikhail!
Hi Curtis, hope you’re well. I wanted to ask if you would be able create a video or shed some light on how you achieve that blue background as well as the blue right light around you face. I normally use Philips hue bulbs for the background, but I get too much light spill from my key light.
Thank you.
-Samar Ali Khan
Hi Samar, yes, a tutorial is on my list. The short version: Use tungsten colored key light, white balance the camera to tungsten, then use a daylight or cooler colored light on the white paper backdrop. More to come.
shuuups not sheps
Ok
I’m buying the cmc641 for shooting one person interviews and I’m wondering what your advice would be for an audio recorder for less than $2000. I was thinking of either zoom f8n or mixpre 3. Or do you have any other recommendation that would work well with cmc6?
Hi Jake, those are both fine choices. I personally prefer the MixPre series but the Zoom F8n is great as well. Happy recording!
@@curtisjudd Thank you! I will be ordering the mixpre :)
Hi Curtis, a lot of thanks for your helpful videos. I am a voiceover artist and I spend most of my time traveling by caravan. so i get my recordings inside the trailer. i wanna buy 8050, do you recommend? or Which microphone would you recommend to me?
I do recommend the 8050. It is my main boom mic.
@@curtisjudd Thank you so much Curtis
did Schoeps ever get the audio kinks worked out of the CMC6. i know a lot of mixers in hollywood went back to the Schoeps CMC5 or should i say had a new/old one made?
The issues with humidity or are you referring to other issues? I'm not aware of any changes.
Would love an outdoor Mic comparison!
You got it! 5 Shotgun microphones compared here: ruclips.net/video/veD8BVXV3Ls/видео.html
Rode ntg4+ or sennheiser mke600? Which has better audio? THANKS...
I'd probably go for the Sennheiser but remember that every voice works differently with every microphone.
Hi Curtis, do you ever feel guilty after buying a really expensive piece of gear, such as a microphone? (i do)
Hi Harri, not if I have a legitimate need for the microphone. If I’m just collecting for fun, then perhaps. 😀
If you are dirt broke and looking for a microphone for indoor dialogue check out the Samson C02 small diaphragm condenser microphone. The audio is not as pristine as any of these microphones but it will get you 90% of the way for 10% of the cost.
Agreed, we looked at it here: ruclips.net/video/YDy75_ciuf8/видео.html and compared it to 4 other mics here: ruclips.net/video/q-b_1gOYOEQ/видео.html
Nice, keep up the great work Curtis!
Hi Curtis, good test. I would ask you a thing about noise measurements average RMS you often do.
I found 2 recording mics with these noise (after normalizing them):
www.sendspace.com/file/v440un
noise1 has MaxMinRMS -54.61-68.04__averageRMS -62.15
noise2 has MaxMinRMS -59.91-67.71__averageRMS -64.01
If you look only at these data you can make the assumption that noise2 mic is better than 1! INSTEAD hear it! Noise1 is LOT better than 2!!
The point is noise1 have a max RMS -54 (maybe a very short peak) whilst noise2 only -59 and this will count in the average.
But the result is totally wrong!
So, I'm doubtful on this RMS test to compare noises...
Hi, thanks and you bring up a good point. I have not found a really good way to measure noise without electronic measurement devices (and I'm not especially skilled in electronics). So yes, the RMS method is not perfect. However max is not useful either since human hearing is closer to RMS. I wanted to show the frequency response (RTA) view of the noise floor sections of the audio. I think where in the spectrum the noise falls is part of the difference. But overall, with all three of these mics, we are hearing mostly actual noise that was in the recording room and they each color what is recorded of that noise (note the Sennheiser's peak in the 16-20kHz range). I'm still very much open to suggestions and I agree that the RMS measure is not perfect or maybe even useful.
Yes, I was not referring to these mics in particular: they are all very good mics, so the noise is quite equal and not a problem.
But the files I uploaded show that a great, quite noise free, like noise1 NT1a should be worse than the noise2 mic that is an Aputure a.Lav, looking on RMS... that's impossible of course and it can be heared infact!
I think I found 2 better ways:
1) could be infact the frequency response analysis:
imgur.com/QN0sVDu
noise1 is red, noise2 is orange
here you can see noise1 is better in the most hearing freq even like 10dB diff! So this should be more real than RMS...
2) More, if you zoom a lot the noises you get this:
noise1= imgur.com/hISD4zI
noise2= imgur.com/CDgTklG
It can be seen the noisiest have a thicker waveform than the Rode, more clean and thin, so I think more hearable sound.
Thank you. Interesting things to consider.
The thing I notice most, and this is listening on an inexpensive pair of Sony on-ear headphones, the Sennheiser seems to have a slightly fuller feel with a bit more bass response compared to the Schoeps and AT, and both the Sennheiser and Schoeps are much cleaner sounding than the AT, which seems like it'd be expected for the price difference. All sound fantastic though.
Thanks for that. Yes, the Sennheiser seems to work best for my voice from my perspective but I think the Schoeps is probably more "truthful". And I agree, all three are quite good.
Hey Curtis, huge fan here! I just saw the new sE7 SDC and was wondering if it would perform better than the Samson C02, could you give me your opinion? I live in south america and have a friend traveling to europe who could bring me one of them. Thanks in advance!
Hey Reg, thanks! Unfortunately I haven’t used the sE so I don’t have personal experience with it. But I’ve heard good things about their mics. Best wishes!
Thanks for the reply Curtis, anyway you make me confident that the C02 is a fair choice for my needs and budget. I’m sure it will perform well, as your tests portray.
Which is better for an indoor video recording like a bed room condo? Sennheiser MKH 8050 or MKH 50?
Both are good, but it depends on the sound you want. The 8050 has less midrange and often sounds better directly out of the recorder on most voices to my ears.
@@curtisjudd I own SM7B and I really like that kind of sound. Which one of these two do you think has the closest sound to SM7B? Thank you so much :)
@@khoonchaii-businessonlines5467 Probably the 8050, but no boom mic sounds quite like the SM7B simply because one usually positions the SM7B so much closer. I don't want to give you the impression that the 8050 is just like the Shure. It isn't. But between the two, I think it is closer.
Hey Curtis, what is the reach difference like on the 8050 vs the Schoeps? I'm considering buying either a CMC641 or an 8050... but I'm worried if spending the additional $500CAD for a CMC is worth it over the 8050. So many mixers have trusted the Schoeps for so long, and I haven't seen any 8050 testimonials anywhere. The frequency response up close seems too similar to tell the difference, I think my deciding factor will be the reach. Thanks for the videos!
Hi Nathan, the concept of "reach" when talking about microphones is a bit misleading. Really it is a consideration of how directional the microphone's polar/pickup pattern is relative to another microphone. The white noise samples here show that they're quite similar. So from that point of view, they each have similar "reach".
My take is that if you want a less colored sound and you will not be regularly recording in especially humid environments, the Schoeps is great. If you light the slightly colored/warmer sound or will be recording in very humid environs, the Sennheiser is probably the better choice.
I hope that helps!
Thanks for this! I live in British Columbia, we get fairly radical humidity shifts throughout the year. I'll have to talk with more local mixers/boom ops to see if their Schoeps have had issues.
please tell me what do you use for backgrounds, I really like your backgrounds.
That's just a white paper roll: bhpho.to/2kNP1xO Then I light it with various lights to get the different effects, sometimes the same color temperature as the key light, other times with a much cooler temp light so that it appears blue.
What's your thoughts on the sennheiser mke 600 for indoor dialogue? It says its lobar but also super cardoid?
Hi Lewis, I don't have enough experience with the MKE 600 to have an opinion on it. But lots of people seem to like it and there are several reviews here on RUclips which cover it. Best wishes!
@@curtisjudd thanks, I got it on impulse for a job which ended up not even happening so I was considering selling it for a ngt 3. I'm also going to get the at4053b on your recommendation and I'm going to purchase your mix pre 3 class :)
great comparison! Thank You.
Thanks!
Great content as always! If I can buy only one microphone for RUclips, indoor, out of frame boomed above my head, in a non-sound-treated (though not too echoey) room which microphone would you recommend? RODE NTG5+MixPre3 or Schoeps CMC641 (with the Schoeps is it a must to have a MixPre3 also)? Or something else? (Max. budget: 1500-2000 USD) Thanks!
I would probably choose the NTG5 and MixPre for my voice.
@@curtisjudd Thanks a lot! So great to hear that the NTG5 is a good option (and I've been in love with the MixPre - such a great relief that I can pull the trigger on that one - thanks again!)
What if you wrap the interference tube of a shotgun microphone with soundproof material, will it perform better than the indoor boom cardioid microphones?
Not sure. Worth experimenting. 😀
helpful information,thank you for great content
Thanks Viktor.
Hi Curtis, one question, but first, I've watched many of your videos, and want to thank you for such solid yet concise information. So helpful. Thank you...
Okay, in short, I have created a RUclips studio, it's time to decide on a solid mic for indoor recording talking head and occasional interview videos in a modestly sound-treated garage studio. I see all these reviews and RUclipsrs talking and using long tube shotgun mics...not outdoors, but indoors, in seemingly controlled, talking head environments. What gives?
Are they just using them incorrectly...IE, they should be going for a boom mic like you review here instead of a shotgun mic, or maybe perhaps using them outside (without mentioning that), or maybe they are using the shotguns because they have a completely untreated recording space, what?
The three boom mics you review in this video all seem great, and I'm strongly considering one, but what am i missing?
Hi, Shotgun microphones *can* be used indoors but when they are, they risk producing an effect that does not affect non-shotgun microphones: Off axis phase interference.
This occurs with shotgun microphones when the sound source (person talking) is slightly off to the side of the front of the mic and there is enough reverberation in the room ("echo"). What happens is that the mic captures this with a warbling sort of sound to the voice. It only happens if all of these factors line up perfectly, but it is an effect that cannot be fixed in post.
For this reason, many pro location sound mixers will not use shotgun microphones indoors. Some still do and in most circumstances are fine, it is simply a risk you take on when you do use a shotgun mic indoors.
So if all of your shooting will be indoors, I'd recommend going with one like the three we reviewed here and avoid that risk altogether.
Best wishes!
@@curtisjudd Wonderful, thank you so much for the response! Makes sense😎
Hi, What's best type of microphones to go for less mic bleed? This is the situation:
Four people sitting back to back, close to each other and facing their own camera (4) while each of them can't see the others person in that same room.
----------------------------
| * |
| 1 |
| v |
|* 3 > < 2 * |
| ^ |
| 4 |
| * |
-------------------------------
*=Camera
(Numbers are persons who let's say face the wall but has his/her own mics and 5 feet distant to each mic)
All of them record at the same time and mostly talking together with each other.
Thanks.
Hi Iman, it depends on a few factors including how the room sounds (is it particularly reverberant?) and how much the people will be moving. If they don't move a lot, lavs may be best. If the room is not particularly reverberant, super-cardioid boom might be best.