I love when someone who is well beyond the skill level they are giving advice to, still takes the time to give the expert advice. I'd see 500 options for sale and have to choose randomly otherwise. Thanks for doing this, I hope your channel takes off.
I know nothing about filming or audio recording, a friend wants to make a video and I'm researching... but I can tell! the information here (and the way it is transmited) is definitely in another level.
One mic worth looking at at the low end is the Audio Technica ATR-6550. The noise floor is a little high (but better than your "ebay special") and it has a permanently attached TRS cable but it is a proper shotgun mic meaning it rejects sound coming from the sides very, very well. I was shooting an interview segment in an office with the subject in front of the computer. With the mic aimed from above frame down, it was pointing at the PC under the desk introducing tons of noise. Bringing the mic down and pointing up to my subject removed that noise entirely. The crazy thing is that in this new position the mic was right next to the PC ... about 1.5 feet. but side rejection did it's magic. The office was super small so I was limited in where I could place the mic ... was looking at maybe switching to a lav mic instead. I wish I could have a version of this with XLR instead of a permanently attached TRS cable. That being said, looking at upgrading to a slightly better mic ... not that' I've ever been particularly disappointed with this mic for the type of work I do. A bit of post processing and it's sounds fine for what I use it for.
Hi. I think positioning the Sennheiser closer because its actual transducer element is behind the interference tube is a bad decision for a test. The reason is because in actual usage, you wouldn't be able to put it any closer than the other mics. Usually, we get the mic about as close as we can without getting in the shot and that means the tip of the shotgun mic is not going to be able to get any closer than the tip of any of these other mics. Other than that, thanks for the thoughtful comparison.
Probably for interior dialogue the industry standard is more like the MKH-50/Schoeps MK41, not the 416. The interference tube design of the MKH 416 can produce phase issues in reverberant interiors and is used mostly outdoors or at least in a very large sound stage. In terms of your review, the Samson fared pretty well I think. Thanks.
It's good luck to find a review that conveniently answers questions I had about what I consider 3 totally unrelated microphones, all in one go. What are the odds of that? So thanks for making those choices. 1/ Is the MK 416 "all that?" 2/ Samson CO2's are an interesting option for getting 2 compact condenser mics at a very reasonable price, to use with my Tascam DR-40 for portable interviews, audio for video and open mic performances. 3/ The 14" no name thingy came to my attention only this morning in a sidebar ad but no true user reviews could be found. Yikes! I didn't need headphones to be exposed to its hopelessly huge noise floor and thin sound. It's also generating a lot of sibilance and you weren't even trying to demonstrate how they handle S's. No redeeming qualities except maybe gut it and use the tube to protect a private stash of Smarties.
It seems to me that this test methodology flatters the Sennheiser shotgun compared to all the others. For most video dialogue-recording purposes you want to know how the mic sounds with the front end (not the capsule) at the same distance. The relevant distance is usually far enough from the subject that you can get the entire mic out of the shot. (You wouldn't use the Sennheiser with several inches of interference tube sticking into the frame.) Even a few inches difference will affect the noise floor significantly, because the sound energy is inversely proportional to the square of the distance from the subject. (A mic 1.41 feet away will have twice the signal energy of one 2 feet away, making it sound significantly less noisy and/or echoey.) I also read a comment somewhere saying that a shotgun mic CAN work with the capsule at the front of the interference tube. That sort of makes sense to me because what matters most is that you're combining pressure coming via different-length paths and the paths will have the same differences in length independent of which end of the tube you put the capsule on. Unfortunately I don't understand the physics well enough to be sure. (One difference would be that the straight-path signal will be a bit stronger relative to the longer paths' signals if the capsule is in the front, just because it's closer to the subject. It seems like that would mean that at short distances it would be less directional, but at longer distances it wouldn't make much difference.)
Battery powered electret condensers have noise issues. That was true when I purchased my first one in the 1980s, a stereo Realistic 33-1065, and it is true today with the 14.37 "shotgun" mic. Large diaphragm condensers that run on 48V phantom power can be found in the $20 price range from Neewer, Fosmon, Aokeo, and the unbranded MB-800. I'm not "endorsing" any of these cheapie Chinese mics, but all of them would likely outperform the 14.37 electret included in this test. That being said, most cameras and comcorders lack XLR connectors with phantom power, so a pre-amp stage is necessary.
Your channel deserves a hell of a lot more subs. Great video, been struggling for ages to figure out the best audio solution for my videos, never quite satisfied with my audio quality.
They all sound very "hissy". The hiss can be reduced by placing them at least 30° out of axis. In my experience and from what I've studied on manuals many years ago, the ideal position for shotgun microphones is slightly over the head pointing them to take a good balance of cranium, mouth and chest sound. The more the mic is directional the more the difference is audible. ;)
Nice, I own the co2 mics. They're not bad. I'm looking to step it up a bit though and considering the oktava or a mod'd nt5 with Micheal joly capsule. So many mics, so little money. Lol
the lyxpro and samson sound pretty similar, with quite noticeable noise compared to the sennheiser. how do you feel these work with a bit of noise reduction?
Great video and review. I wish I would have seen this before purchasing my Behringer c-2 microphone set, but not sorry I have them. Did you make the video showing the Lyx Pro capsules? I have been looking for it and can't find it. Thanks again for the review.
Hi, you are the first person using a Zoom F4 when comparing the Samson C02 with other mics. I have the F8 just some weeks now and now I am aware what I can expect. I tried my C02 with the F8, but was a little distracted by the noise floor. But it seems 1) be the headphone amp I am plugged in my very old MB Quart Phone 55X and 2) I cranked up the amps to get any hearing while I am speaking. So I need to start a test recording and setup the levels correctly to -12 dB or the like and listen in post to it. Thanks a lot :-)
Hi Jeff, thanks for your video. I am looking to upgrade my sound for Zoom conferencing and auditioning purposes and was wondering about the Samson CO2. When using this mic(s) should I use both since they come in a pair? Or would you recommend the LyxPro because of the interchangeable capsules?
I need to record a VO for a project coming up. I have a rode video mic pro. Would this be comparable? Better or worse than these options? I also have a lav mic and a zoom h5.
I'm about to purchase the Sound Devices Mixpre-3. I currently use a Røde NTG-2 with it but will probably get the NTG-4 due to the slightly better noise floor in the not to distant future. I'm a production sound mixer and would love to get your response to the following scenario: If I have a budget of around $250, which cardiod mic would you most recommend for me to add to my kit as a complimentary mic. At the moment I use the NTG-2 for everything and while it doesn't do a bad job, I'd like something more suitable for interior shots. I do at times use a Sony UWD-11 wireless lav kit or the Rødelink film shooter wireless lav as well. Thanks for this awesome review and I look forward to more in the future.
doubledark2 Personally, I wouldn't be surprised if they are the same electronics in different housings. if I had to judge, maybe the lyx by a hair... but they are hard to tell apart..
wow; how's that for a fast reply. I've mentioned your review and reply on this forum www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?354730-indoor-dialogue-416-or-cheap-Hypercardioid&p=1986703215#post1986703215 Thanks again for all your effort.
doubledark2 Thanks for the mention. I have another test coming shortly with the 416, lyxpro, me64, me65, me66, and at4053b. I'm not sure, but I think it may be the first me65 review on RUclips (I couldn't find one). weird.
Thank you for this. It was really good information for a Low budget equipment. I saw that you are using a Zoom interface. I got a question about this product: I bought days ago the Zoom H6, but every time that I try to record something it's appears a message saying WAITING FOR SIGNAL. And I can't record. But if I just move the Zoom H6 start it to record. Do you know why this is happening? Or should be something wrong in my set up? Thank you. oscar
Not sure if this comes a little late, but have you tried turning on the phantom power on your Zoom H6? I have both the H6 and C02 and they work perfectly fine together. Hope this helps.
Could you use the to record audio for podcasts as well? I'm searching for a cost effective method to record multiple audio sources on a mobile divice for podcasting. I think with a good phantom power source the Samson or LyxPro may be my best options I can find right now.
I only have a couple lavs at the moment (and only one wireless system), but if I am able to acquire a few, I will certainly put together reviews for those as well.
Jeff Ello - PhotonArmy.com thanks! do you know of any shotguns that are between the cheap $20 and the better ones? around the $30-40 area? ideally with a battery instead of 48v.
How does the LyxPro SDPC-2 work at a distance of 2ft-3ft? I am choosing between it and the MXL 770 right now. I want to avoid having to kiss the microphone because I will be using it for video interviews and I don't want it to obscure the frame.
I know the 416 is supposed to be used outdoor BUT, when I listen to your video, I god damn love it In indoor, what is your opinion about that? thanks for your video
Nothing wrong with using it indoors as long as you have echoes suppressed... Hard echoes can cause an odd phasing sound on shotguns. In a reasonably controlled room, it's fine.
It's probably self noise Antoine. The LyxPro has a self noise of 24 dBA (it's basically a rebranded iSK Little Gem) and the Samson C02 is 22 dBA self noise. That's quite a bit higher than most mics. Even the cheapest modern condensers are only 18-20 dBA self noise. The LyxPro isn't really worth picking up for filming, since the iSK CM-20C is essentially the same thing minus the omni and cardioid capsules and is 4 dBA quieter.
Very useful and informative comparison. However, in my opinion, you'd have to declare yourself a deaf person to not notice that the 3 alternatives sound like crap compared to the Sennheiser. Granted, there's a spectrum in that crap. The chinese cheapo is the only one that sounds 10 times worse.
De lo que escucho por aqui, el Sehnheiser les gana a todos por goleada, después de lejos le siguen Samson, seguido por Lyx Pro, del Shotgun ni hablar, es horrible...
Finally, someone mentioned it. The reason, which isn't a great reason, but at the time it made sense... was to maintain the maximum dynamic range, because pumping it to RUclips max has a tendency to reduce it. At one point, I was going to pull it and repost it, but then I was curious if anyone would comment on it.... and here you are, fulfilling destiny.
I love when someone who is well beyond the skill level they are giving advice to, still takes the time to give the expert advice. I'd see 500 options for sale and have to choose randomly otherwise. Thanks for doing this, I hope your channel takes off.
I know nothing about filming or audio recording, a friend wants to make a video and I'm researching... but I can tell! the information here (and the way it is transmited) is definitely in another level.
Now THIS was a good review, bravo man! Well done, thank you.
Thank you. I can finally know what the noise floor of the c02 really is. I want to use it for my youtube setup. Love your video! Subscribed!!
One mic worth looking at at the low end is the Audio Technica ATR-6550.
The noise floor is a little high (but better than your "ebay special") and it has a permanently attached TRS cable but it is a proper shotgun mic meaning it rejects sound coming from the sides very, very well.
I was shooting an interview segment in an office with the subject in front of the computer. With the mic aimed from above frame down, it was pointing at the PC under the desk introducing tons of noise.
Bringing the mic down and pointing up to my subject removed that noise entirely. The crazy thing is that in this new position the mic was right next to the PC ... about 1.5 feet. but side rejection did it's magic.
The office was super small so I was limited in where I could place the mic ... was looking at maybe switching to a lav mic instead.
I wish I could have a version of this with XLR instead of a permanently attached TRS cable.
That being said, looking at upgrading to a slightly better mic ... not that' I've ever been particularly disappointed with this mic for the type of work I do. A bit of post processing and it's sounds fine for what I use it for.
Hi. I think positioning the Sennheiser closer because its actual transducer element is behind the interference tube is a bad decision for a test. The reason is because in actual usage, you wouldn't be able to put it any closer than the other mics. Usually, we get the mic about as close as we can without getting in the shot and that means the tip of the shotgun mic is not going to be able to get any closer than the tip of any of these other mics. Other than that, thanks for the thoughtful comparison.
Yeah he should redo it to make sure make a real informed decision about the 416 or the $20 “shotgun” mic.
so today i learn that the sennheiser mkh416 is sounds so tender... nice review n advice. thanks :)
Probably for interior dialogue the industry standard is more like the MKH-50/Schoeps MK41, not the 416. The interference tube design of the MKH 416 can produce phase issues in reverberant interiors and is used mostly outdoors or at least in a very large sound stage. In terms of your review, the Samson fared pretty well I think. Thanks.
Really good simple analysts, this helped a ton
Thank you for this excellent straight-up video. Simple and to-the-point! Would you do a similar video for exterior mics?
Your mic comparison was so well done 👍. You just got a subscriber. Keep up the good work
The noise difference is striking. Great video.
I was thinking "I can't tell the difference" until it got the the "14 inch mic". Bloody hell, that's crap.
It's good luck to find a review that conveniently answers questions I had about what I consider 3 totally unrelated microphones, all in one go. What are the odds of that? So thanks for making those choices.
1/ Is the MK 416 "all that?"
2/ Samson CO2's are an interesting option for getting 2 compact condenser mics at a very reasonable price, to use with my Tascam DR-40 for portable interviews, audio for video and open mic performances.
3/ The 14" no name thingy came to my attention only this morning in a sidebar ad but no true user reviews could be found. Yikes! I didn't need headphones to be exposed to its hopelessly huge noise floor and thin sound. It's also generating a lot of sibilance and you weren't even trying to demonstrate how they handle S's. No redeeming qualities except maybe gut it and use the tube to protect a private stash of Smarties.
It seems to me that this test methodology flatters the Sennheiser shotgun compared to all the others. For most video dialogue-recording purposes you want to know how the mic sounds with the front end (not the capsule) at the same distance. The relevant distance is usually far enough from the subject that you can get the entire mic out of the shot. (You wouldn't use the Sennheiser with several inches of interference tube sticking into the frame.) Even a few inches difference will affect the noise floor significantly, because the sound energy is inversely proportional to the square of the distance from the subject. (A mic 1.41 feet away will have twice the signal energy of one 2 feet away, making it sound significantly less noisy and/or echoey.)
I also read a comment somewhere saying that a shotgun mic CAN work with the capsule at the front of the interference tube. That sort of makes sense to me because what matters most is that you're combining pressure coming via different-length paths and the paths will have the same differences in length independent of which end of the tube you put the capsule on. Unfortunately I don't understand the physics well enough to be sure. (One difference would be that the straight-path signal will be a bit stronger relative to the longer paths' signals if the capsule is in the front, just because it's closer to the subject. It seems like that would mean that at short distances it would be less directional, but at longer distances it wouldn't make much difference.)
I saw this comment after I wrote the same thing.
Waitng for the LyxPro capsule comparison!!
Great video. Exactly what we need to see or in this case hear. As well as some great advice and insight.
Battery powered electret condensers have noise issues. That was true when I purchased my first one in the 1980s, a stereo Realistic 33-1065, and it is true today with the 14.37 "shotgun" mic. Large diaphragm condensers that run on 48V phantom power can be found in the $20 price range from Neewer, Fosmon, Aokeo, and the unbranded MB-800. I'm not "endorsing" any of these cheapie Chinese mics, but all of them would likely outperform the 14.37 electret included in this test. That being said, most cameras and comcorders lack XLR connectors with phantom power, so a pre-amp stage is necessary.
Great job!
Your channel deserves a hell of a lot more subs. Great video, been struggling for ages to figure out the best audio solution for my videos, never quite satisfied with my audio quality.
Thanks for the video, please do an outside mic comparison too!
Great review I love watching reviews that are straight forward and honest. Keep up the good work!
They all sound very "hissy". The hiss can be reduced by placing them at least 30° out of axis. In my experience and from what I've studied on manuals many years ago, the ideal position for shotgun microphones is slightly over the head pointing them to take a good balance of cranium, mouth and chest sound. The more the mic is directional the more the difference is audible. ;)
Excellent review, thanks.
Nice, I own the co2 mics. They're not bad. I'm looking to step it up a bit though and considering the oktava or a mod'd nt5 with Micheal joly capsule. So many mics, so little money. Lol
This is great
Informative, and great delivery thanks
Thank you
Awesome thank you! I think Im picking up the Samson
Rico Roman It seems to be on sale, not a bad deal. Glad it helped
the lyxpro and samson sound pretty similar, with quite noticeable noise compared to the sennheiser. how do you feel these work with a bit of noise reduction?
I noticed that all the mics except for the dead quiet MKH-416 have a high noise floor.
Brilliant, thank you very much, very informative.
Thanks mate, the samson sounds good just a bit more ‘hiss’.
Definitely useful mate 👍
Great video and review. I wish I would have seen this before purchasing my Behringer c-2 microphone set, but not sorry I have them. Did you make the video showing the Lyx Pro capsules? I have been looking for it and can't find it. Thanks again for the review.
Samson C02 is a very Noisy mic .. I returned to the shop and bought lewitt 040 match pair
This is a great example of Review, well done Thank You :)
Hi, you are the first person using a Zoom F4 when comparing the Samson C02 with other mics. I have the F8 just some weeks now and now I am aware what I can expect. I tried my C02 with the F8, but was a little distracted by the noise floor. But it seems 1) be the headphone amp I am plugged in my very old MB Quart Phone 55X and 2) I cranked up the amps to get any hearing while I am speaking.
So I need to start a test recording and setup the levels correctly to -12 dB or the like and listen in post to it.
Thanks a lot :-)
Nice job, love this video.
I wish Amazon had the LYX pro new.
It is clear that why MKH-416 considered as a industry standard.
Great review!
That 416 is tops.... wish it was less 😂
Excellent!
Samson sounds pretty good
Nice review! New sub!
Hi Jeff, thanks for your video. I am looking to upgrade my sound for Zoom conferencing and auditioning purposes and was wondering about the Samson CO2. When using this mic(s) should I use both since they come in a pair? Or would you recommend the LyxPro because of the interchangeable capsules?
Could you make review of LyxPro SDPC-2 ?
I need to record a VO for a project coming up. I have a rode video mic pro. Would this be comparable? Better or worse than these options? I also have a lav mic and a zoom h5.
I'm about to purchase the Sound Devices Mixpre-3. I currently use a Røde NTG-2 with it but will probably get the NTG-4 due to the slightly better noise floor in the not to distant future.
I'm a production sound mixer and would love to get your response to the following scenario:
If I have a budget of around $250, which cardiod mic would you most recommend for me to add to my kit as a complimentary mic. At the moment I use the NTG-2 for everything and while it doesn't do a bad job, I'd like something more suitable for interior shots.
I do at times use a Sony UWD-11 wireless lav kit or the Rødelink film shooter wireless lav as well.
Thanks for this awesome review and I look forward to more in the future.
amazing
Thank you for taking the time to do this review. Can I ask, did you prefer the LyxPro SDPC-2 or the Samson CO2 in terms of clarity/self-noise ?
doubledark2 Personally, I wouldn't be surprised if they are the same electronics in different housings. if I had to judge, maybe the lyx by a hair... but they are hard to tell apart..
wow; how's that for a fast reply. I've mentioned your review and reply on this forum www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?354730-indoor-dialogue-416-or-cheap-Hypercardioid&p=1986703215#post1986703215 Thanks again for all your effort.
doubledark2 Thanks for the mention. I have another test coming shortly with the 416, lyxpro, me64, me65, me66, and at4053b. I'm not sure, but I think it may be the first me65 review on RUclips (I couldn't find one). weird.
Will you do the review of the three different LyxPro modules that you mention in this video ?
What about the Rode M5?
Thank you for this. It was really good information for a Low budget equipment.
I saw that you are using a Zoom interface. I got a question about this product:
I bought days ago the Zoom H6, but every time that I try to record something it's appears a message saying WAITING FOR SIGNAL. And I can't record. But if I just move the Zoom H6 start it to record.
Do you know why this is happening? Or should be something wrong in my set up?
Thank you.
oscar
Not sure if this comes a little late, but have you tried turning on the phantom power on your Zoom H6? I have both the H6 and C02 and they work perfectly fine together. Hope this helps.
@@rfllovit I going to check that.
Thank you.
Oscar
Hi this is a great review. Which would you recommend for attaching to a camera for dialogue?
Could you use the to record audio for podcasts as well? I'm searching for a cost effective method to record multiple audio sources on a mobile divice for podcasting. I think with a good phantom power source the Samson or LyxPro may be my best options I can find right now.
Please do one for lav mics too! and cheap wirelss options?
I only have a couple lavs at the moment (and only one wireless system), but if I am able to acquire a few, I will certainly put together reviews for those as well.
Jeff Ello - PhotonArmy.com thanks! do you know of any shotguns that are between the cheap $20 and the better ones? around the $30-40 area? ideally with a battery instead of 48v.
How does the LyxPro SDPC-2 work at a distance of 2ft-3ft? I am choosing between it and the MXL 770 right now. I want to avoid having to kiss the microphone because I will be using it for video interviews and I don't want it to obscure the frame.
Best argument for the 416 I have ever heard. Night and day.
What do you think about Sennheiser ME-64 for indoor dialogue?
I know the 416 is supposed to be used outdoor BUT, when I listen to your video, I god damn love it In indoor, what is your opinion about that? thanks for your video
Nothing wrong with using it indoors as long as you have echoes suppressed... Hard echoes can cause an odd phasing sound on shotguns. In a reasonably controlled room, it's fine.
Could you test mkh-416 vs Marantz Audio Scope SG-5B (CHEAP)?
There was hissing in the audio of the small diaphragm pencil microphones....was that self noise ....and why?
It's probably self noise Antoine. The LyxPro has a self noise of 24 dBA (it's basically a rebranded iSK Little Gem) and the Samson C02 is 22 dBA self noise. That's quite a bit higher than most mics. Even the cheapest modern condensers are only 18-20 dBA self noise.
The LyxPro isn't really worth picking up for filming, since the iSK CM-20C is essentially the same thing minus the omni and cardioid capsules and is 4 dBA quieter.
In case you're interested, Deity is giving away a V-Mic D3 Pro on March 31, 2020. You can enter here wn.nr/22W9qX
Very useful and informative comparison. However, in my opinion, you'd have to declare yourself a deaf person to not notice that the 3 alternatives sound like crap compared to the Sennheiser. Granted, there's a spectrum in that crap. The chinese cheapo is the only one that sounds 10 times worse.
What shock mounts do you recommend for the LyxPro?
De lo que escucho por aqui, el Sehnheiser les gana a todos por goleada, después de lejos le siguen Samson, seguido por Lyx Pro, del Shotgun ni hablar, es horrible...
416 wins
Im buying samson CO2 tomorrow
How it is
All three sound terrible. This noise is just too high.
Jesus. No brainer huh.
I have 416 and it's trash, I am gonna sell it. avoit
Nope. 14.37 inch shotgun and throw it away.
Unless you're a middle or high school student you can do better.
why are you sooo quiet. testing microphones lol
Finally, someone mentioned it. The reason, which isn't a great reason, but at the time it made sense... was to maintain the maximum dynamic range, because pumping it to RUclips max has a tendency to reduce it. At one point, I was going to pull it and repost it, but then I was curious if anyone would comment on it.... and here you are, fulfilling destiny.