Surely the final sound for บ is p and the final sound for ด is t , not b and d. 😊 Although I am not Thai I have been studying Thai language for 20 years and in my studies บ and ด have always been pronounced with p and t as a final sound.
Hello Mark, They are not. In Thai grammar, the final consonants จ ด ต ถ ฐ ท ธ ฎ ฏ ฑ ฒ ช ซ ศ ษ ส is pronounced as ด. The tongue is placed where we make the Thai ด sound (you can see in the video for where we place our tongue for Thai ด sound, how the sound is articulated and how the air flows) and it is not the Thai ท ต and nothing like the English t, th or d at all. The final consonants บ ป พ ภ ฟ is pronounced as บ. The tongue is placed where we make the Thai บ sound, a non aspirated which is unlike the พ (ph or p) or ป (similar to p in some words), (you can see in the video for where we place our tongue for Thai บ sound, how the sound is articulated and how the air flows) and it's not the Thai ป พ and nothing like the English p or ph (aspirated sounds) at all. You can ask your Thai friends to pronoune words ending with บ or ด and ask the Thai friends to show you where we place our tongue. Please note, you can't compare Thai sounds to English sounds. If you think of บ and ด as the English p and t, that's not the right way to learn correct Thai sounds because they are not the same at all.
hello I'm afraid your lesson here is very misleading. You are misunderstanding the difference between the pronunciation of p and b in Thai. It is not a question of exaggerating at all - it is about not voicing the B or the D so they remain P and T respectively. Please think about studying the linguistics of Thai more closely - all three final dead sounds are blocked sounds where the air is is stopped from being released ie K T P - K being a glottal stop T being a top by the tongue behind the upper teeth and P a stop delivered by closing the lips.
Hello Mark, Thank you for your feedback. I'm not misunderstanding the pronunciation of p and b in Thai. I have studied languages and linguistics for many years and hold two degrees; BA in English and Mass Communication and BA in Thai and Linguistics. I've written 9 books on Thai language and created courses to help people learn Thai. The THING is I have a simple method and explanation for Thai learners. I don't use complicated linguistic terms to teach learners because the majority of the learners have very basic knowledge about learning languages. You can see the feedback below. Learners find my teaching method help them to easily understand how to make Thai sounds "The videos make the Thai language manageable and easy. Thank you." I can't explain about all the aspects of my teaching method on here but my courses have been proven to be a very successful method for people who wish to speak read and write Thai. I appreciate your comment and respect your knowledge of the Thai language, but my aim here is to simplify Thai for the average learner.
@@Learnthaistyle hello Khun Jiab (or perhaps Chiap as the letter J does not exist as a sound in Standard Thai and there is never ever a -B final in Standard Thai as I'm sure you know). Thank you for your very quick response and I am heartened that you are so well qualified in linguistics however this makes me even more puzzled that you see teaching the sounds of a language accurately cannot be taught simply? I worry that such qualified professors who know what the actual sounds of Thai are and how they vary from, say, English would fudge it. So many books and happy customers all thinking that Thai words end with a -B or a -D when spoken when it is impossible. In your video clip above you do refer to the change in the language when these consonants are finals but a simple explanation that all non voiced consonants transform into a -T a -P or a -K final would seem much simpler than insisting that there are these somehow modified Bs or Ds when they never, ever are when spoken! As your qualifications surely have informed you. If I were a student and found this out I would not be pleased. Aren't you just confusing the student by pretending that the spoken word and the written word share all the same sounds? Also reinforcing bad pronunciation habits which are not going to be undone easily as the student advances? I think it is better, I'm sorry to say, to be honest and clear about the language from the beginning rather than saying it is one thing when it never can be? I think I am on a crusade to ask established Thai language teachers to rethink the approximation of language rather than teaching the truth. I'm sorry to be a critic of your methods but when do you teach your students the truth? After how long do you correct these pronunciation approximations to teach the real sounds? I just don't accept that it is too complicated. And I don't buy the "linguistics is too difficult ploy" - if linguistics is the truth of the language. It is the teacher who should be skilled enough to transfer this truth to the student and easily surely! Anyway thank you for your response. Sincerely
@@markgower2538 Hello Mark, or perhaps your name should be spelt Marque. In Thai your name can also be spelled as มาร์ก or มาร์ค and both spelling are pronounced the same and native Thais who don’t know English would pronounce your name the way we understand it in Thai pronunciation and would not voice the k. So what is right and what is wrong? In fact, it doesn't matter what symbols or letters used as long as we teach the students to pronounce the sounds of the language correctly. If you met my students you would hear them reading Thai correctly, both from the phonetic/transliteration letters I use in my courses or Thai script itself. How can we say that other people’s teaching methods are wrong when the outcome is good? As a content creator myself, I understand that other schools may have their own methods too, but if they work and more people can learn Thai then great! I’m also a translator with CIOL certification and I know my name เจี๊ยบ should be spelt Chiap according to the Royal Thai Phonetic Alphabet but when spelt this way, please tell me what most English speakers would pronounce Chiap in real life? They would pronounce CH as in charlie and P as in pen. It turns out to be like nothing close to how we pronounce เจี๊ยบ in Thai, so how can we judge that the spelling “Jiab” is a wrong spelling according to the real Thai pronunciation? We can't compare languages by using phonetic letters or transliterations. They are created as tools to help language learners to visually compare and/or distinguish the sounds we make in different languages. We actually should learn from real pronunciation from native speakers like a kid learn from their mother tongue and the original spelling is with the Thai scripts itself ‘เจี๊ยบ' I teach my students the truth by asking them to learn to pronounce Thai sounds and practice their pronunciation with native Thai speakers. We help to correct their pronunciation. We teach our students in a similar way to how children learn their mother tongue as well as providing them simplified learning process. This is not because I underestimate or try to be condescending to my students knowledge, but the vast majority of learners are only interested to be able to communicate in Thai. Very few people learn Thai for further education or learn linguistics. Thai Style Language is a tutoring company helping people to learn to speak, read and write Thai and communicate in everyday conversation. We do not use complicated methods. We simplify the learning process. We also do not have a market for teaching linguistic terms. Our learners are the average foreigners who want to learn for communication with family, friends work colleagues or travel. Yes some start or progress to learn Thai script also. I have spent 12 years working on my methods and after teaching hundreds of learners I have refined my system based on their feedback and their needs. Please send me an email address to info@learnthaistyle.com. I will email you my 34 page introduction to Thai language and Thai pronunciation of my courses. I understand your challenge and what you want to do with teaching methods, but this is the same age old argument about transliteration. The reality is, no transliteration system is perfect, right, wrong, better or worse, as long as it helps the learner to achieve their goal. It would be best for all students to start learning Thai script from day 1 but this is not how the majority of foreigners want to learn Thai. They want basic communication skills using a system of written letters they are already familiar with, so we need to use something to bridge the gap. Send me your email and I will show you how I bridge the gap in my Speak Thai Course materials. You need to learn my methods in order to understand my methods fully.
@@Learnthaistyle All I can say after reading that is, "wow!". I am amazed at how well your video was done, I really appreciate it. Regards Jeff (or should I spell it Geoff, 555)
@@Learnthaistyle well said I think you teach the people who want to learn from you very good method and all can understand from what you are teaching not confusing and very sensible methods thank you
The videos make the Thai language manageable and easy. Thank you.
The Best You Tube teacher
Excellent!
Thank you very much.
Surely the final sound for บ is p and the final sound for ด is t , not b and d. 😊
Although I am not Thai I have been studying Thai language for 20 years and in my studies บ and ด have always been pronounced with p and t as a final sound.
Hello Mark, They are not. In Thai grammar, the final consonants จ ด ต ถ ฐ ท ธ ฎ ฏ
ฑ ฒ ช ซ ศ ษ ส is pronounced as ด. The tongue is placed where we make the Thai ด sound (you can see in the video for where we place our tongue for Thai ด sound, how the sound is articulated and how the air flows) and it is not the Thai ท ต and nothing like the English t, th or d at all. The final consonants บ ป พ ภ ฟ is pronounced as บ. The tongue is placed where we make the Thai บ sound, a non aspirated which is unlike the พ (ph or p) or ป (similar to p in some words), (you can see in the video for where we place our tongue for Thai บ sound, how the sound is articulated and how the air flows) and it's not the Thai ป พ and nothing like the English p or ph (aspirated sounds) at all. You can ask your Thai friends to pronoune words ending with บ or ด and ask the Thai friends to show you where we place our tongue. Please note, you can't compare Thai sounds to English sounds. If you think of บ and ด as the English p and t, that's not the right way to learn correct Thai sounds because they are not the same at all.
1st.... Thumbs up to this video
What are initial consonants
ขอบคุณครับ Ajaan Jiab shared this VDO on facebook.com/groups/faranglearnthai/
hello I'm afraid your lesson here is very misleading. You are misunderstanding the difference between the pronunciation of p and b in Thai. It is not a question of exaggerating at all - it is about not voicing the B or the D so they remain P and T respectively. Please think about studying the linguistics of Thai more closely - all three final dead sounds are blocked sounds where the air is is stopped from being released ie K T P - K being a glottal stop T being a top by the tongue behind the upper teeth and P a stop delivered by closing the lips.
Hello Mark, Thank you for your feedback. I'm not misunderstanding the pronunciation of p and b in Thai. I have studied languages and linguistics for many years and hold two degrees; BA in English and Mass Communication and BA in Thai and Linguistics. I've written 9 books on Thai language and created courses to help people learn Thai. The THING is I have a simple method and explanation for Thai learners. I don't use complicated linguistic terms to teach learners because the majority of the learners have very basic knowledge about learning languages. You can see the feedback below. Learners find my teaching method help them to easily understand how to make Thai sounds "The videos make the Thai language manageable and easy. Thank you." I can't explain about all the aspects of my teaching method on here but my courses have been proven to be a very successful method for people who wish to speak read and write Thai. I appreciate your comment and respect your knowledge of the Thai language, but my aim here is to simplify Thai for the average learner.
@@Learnthaistyle hello Khun Jiab (or perhaps Chiap as the letter J does not exist as a sound in Standard Thai and there is never ever a -B final in Standard Thai as I'm sure you know).
Thank you for your very quick response and I am heartened that you are so well qualified in linguistics however this makes me even more puzzled that you see teaching the sounds of a language accurately cannot be taught simply? I worry that such qualified professors who know what the actual sounds of Thai are and how they vary from, say, English would fudge it. So many books and happy customers all thinking that Thai words end with a -B or a -D when spoken when it is impossible. In your video clip above you do refer to the change in the language when these consonants are finals but a simple explanation that all non voiced consonants transform into a -T a -P or a -K final would seem much simpler than insisting that there are these somehow modified Bs or Ds when they never, ever are when spoken! As your qualifications surely have informed you.
If I were a student and found this out I would not be pleased. Aren't you just confusing the student by pretending that the spoken word and the written word share all the same sounds? Also reinforcing bad pronunciation habits which are not going to be undone easily as the student advances? I think it is better, I'm sorry to say, to be honest and clear about the language from the beginning rather than saying it is one thing when it never can be? I think I am on a crusade to ask established Thai language teachers to rethink the approximation of language rather than teaching the truth. I'm sorry to be a critic of your methods but when do you teach your students the truth? After how long do you correct these pronunciation approximations to teach the real sounds? I just don't accept that it is too complicated. And I don't buy the "linguistics is too difficult ploy" - if linguistics is the truth of the language. It is the teacher who should be skilled enough to transfer this truth to the student and easily surely! Anyway thank you for your response. Sincerely
@@markgower2538 Hello Mark, or perhaps your name should be spelt Marque. In Thai your name can also be spelled as มาร์ก or มาร์ค and both spelling are pronounced the same and native Thais who don’t know English would pronounce your name the way we understand it in Thai pronunciation and would not voice the k. So what is right and what is wrong?
In fact, it doesn't matter what symbols or letters used as long as we teach the students to pronounce the sounds of the language correctly. If you met my students you would hear them reading Thai correctly, both from the phonetic/transliteration letters I use in my courses or Thai script itself. How can we say that other people’s teaching methods are wrong when the outcome is good? As a content creator myself, I understand that other schools may have their own methods too, but if they work and more people can learn Thai then great!
I’m also a translator with CIOL certification and I know my name เจี๊ยบ should be spelt Chiap according to the Royal Thai Phonetic Alphabet but when spelt this way, please tell me what most English speakers would pronounce Chiap in real life? They would pronounce CH as in charlie and P as in pen. It turns out to be like nothing close to how we pronounce เจี๊ยบ in Thai, so how can we judge that the spelling “Jiab” is a wrong spelling according to the real Thai pronunciation? We can't compare languages by using phonetic letters or transliterations. They are created as tools to help language learners to visually compare and/or distinguish the sounds we make in different languages. We actually should learn from real pronunciation from native speakers like a kid learn from their mother tongue and the original spelling is with the Thai scripts itself ‘เจี๊ยบ'
I teach my students the truth by asking them to learn to pronounce Thai sounds and practice their pronunciation with native Thai speakers. We help to correct their pronunciation. We teach our students in a similar way to how children learn their mother tongue as well as providing them simplified learning process. This is not because I underestimate or try to be condescending to my students knowledge, but the vast majority of learners are only interested to be able to communicate in Thai. Very few people learn Thai for further education or learn linguistics.
Thai Style Language is a tutoring company helping people to learn to speak, read and write Thai and communicate in everyday conversation. We do not use complicated methods. We simplify the learning process. We also do not have a market for teaching linguistic terms. Our learners are the average foreigners who want to learn for communication with family, friends work colleagues or travel. Yes some start or progress to learn Thai script also. I have spent 12 years working on my methods and after teaching hundreds of learners I have refined my system based on their feedback and their needs.
Please send me an email address to info@learnthaistyle.com. I will email you my 34 page introduction to Thai language and Thai pronunciation of my courses.
I understand your challenge and what you want to do with teaching methods, but this is the same age old argument about transliteration. The reality is, no transliteration system is perfect, right, wrong, better or worse, as long as it helps the learner to achieve their goal. It would be best for all students to start learning Thai script from day 1 but this is not how the majority of foreigners want to learn Thai. They want basic communication skills using a system of written letters they are already familiar with, so we need to use something to bridge the gap. Send me your email and I will show you how I bridge the gap in my Speak Thai Course materials. You need to learn my methods in order to understand my methods fully.
@@Learnthaistyle All I can say after reading that is, "wow!". I am amazed at how well your video was done, I really appreciate it. Regards Jeff (or should I spell it Geoff, 555)
@@Learnthaistyle well said I think you teach the people who want to learn from you very good method and all can understand from what you are teaching not confusing and very sensible methods thank you