My C&B revolvers in both .44 and .36 have the sharp edge of the chamber mouth just broken. When I load instead of shaving a "ring of lead", the ball is swaged into the chamber. Over the years i have shot away literally multiple pounds of lead and never have had a chain fire. You are absolutely correct chain fire come from ill fitting caps, ones that have been "pinched" to fit. Cap an empty gun and go outside in the dark and see the flash from the cap. Some caps will scare you with the ball of fire they make.
I been shooting percussion revolvers since 1969 I have had one chain fire ever out of a ASM 3rd model 1848 Dragoon. We were trying to make it chain fire but the only way was to not cap the loaded chambers on ether side of the fired chamber. We were using card and paper over the chambers not lead balls for safety reasons. We just wanted to see if all we heard about how easy it was to get a chain fire was true. In our limited experiment it's not that easy.
I often used to load six and cap 5 for western action matches.... never had a chain fire... but that was with a Remington which has better protected nipples than the Colts.
Even though the caliper measured width of the two balls are both 0.452, the difference is that the length of the lead that is 0.452 is greater on the 0.457 ball than on the 0.454 ball. The sphere of lead (and its volume) is greater for the 0.457 ball. This means there is a greater amount of surface area from the 0.457 ball in contact with the chamber (and will be with the rifling) than the surface area compared to the 0.454 ball. If you were to use a 0.460 ball, it would still be shaved down to 0.452 at its width, but that length of lead that measures 0.452 would be even greater - and therefore even more surface area in contact with the chamber. Essentially the balls are be coming cylinders the large the diameter of the ball been forced in. I use 0.457 in my "44 cal" revolvers and 0.375 in my "36" cals. You can use large balls, they just get harder to seat.
That’s exactly what I said but if you are concerned, at all, with accuracy then the chambers should be teamed closer to groove diameter or slightly larger if the mechanics of the revolver will allow.
Chain fires can happen at the front when there is a “lip” at the chamber mouths where it is smaller at the mouth than inside, so the ball isn’t tight in the chamber. Alternatively, damage to the chamber mouths can lead to gouges that create flame channels around the ball. From the cap end, using too hot of caps (which are now common for reliability of ignition), can create enough flame to engulf other caps. If those caps are even a fraction of a millimeter too wide, it can set up a chain fire. The reason to use .457 for a .44 and .380 for a .36 is because each ball size varies by a small amount. You want to make sure that the smallest out of spec ball in the bag is still able to shave a ring. There are only benefits to using an oversized ball. It gives a larger driving band for the rifling to engage, and it adds weight to roundball, which is the lightest projectile weight for caliber to begin with. Every extra grain adds around 10 foot pounds energy, so it matters to have slightly extra lead per ball.
@@buckoff4162 I will also say sprue orientation, though as the video of yours showed the length of the flat surface caused by the chamber was a certain length and the larger the diameter of the ball starting with the longer that flat side will be. The smaller the diameter the shorter the flat surface. I think for good measure go oversized and have that buffer of long flat lead against the chamber wall.
@@kevinbietry7527 so you would sacrifice accuracy thinking that more seal is needed? Colt didn’t design the revolver that way and the Italians build them the way they do as a cost cutting measure.
@@buckoff4162 how does increasing contact with the bore decrease accuracy? If anything colt designed them to run bullets not balls and they have more contact.
The one and only time I had a chain fire was when I didn’t lube over the chamber mouth. Pinching caps never lead to chain fires for me. Just my experience.
Hello I have a question, it s look like pietta 36 are bigger than uberti. I try 375 on it but the ball fall in the chamber and run freely in the barrel for a centimeter. Did they size for 391?
I see a couple hundred Pietta navy revolvers a year and have never seen one with Chambers that large. Have you measured the ball and chambers to be sure everything is as you think?
I’m triggered 😂 This is contrary to everything I’ve heard and adhered to as a result of what so many of the RUclips “experts” I’ve followed say. I refuse to abandon the false paradigm I’ve adhered to. Haha. But we know- the definition of an expert is Ex is a has been and spert is a drip of water under pressure lol Great video sir! I enjoyed this a lot! I do wonder though. Is there a remedy for the Italian copies? Can they be brought to proper specifications? Incase anyone missed the obvious- I was kidding about being triggered and refusal to abandon my false paradigm.
I watched this a couple times now n i can not figure what you are trying to convey. If you swage an oversize ball into a chamber it takes the size of the chamber, or at least the openning. Right, right we both got that. I cant fallow the point you are trying to make beyond that.
My C&B revolvers in both .44 and .36 have the sharp edge of the chamber mouth just broken. When I load instead of shaving a "ring of lead", the ball is swaged into the chamber. Over the years i have shot away literally multiple pounds of lead and never have had a chain fire.
You are absolutely correct chain fire come from ill fitting caps, ones that have been "pinched" to fit.
Cap an empty gun and go outside in the dark and see the flash from the cap. Some caps will scare you with the ball of fire they make.
I been shooting percussion revolvers since 1969 I have had one chain fire ever out of a ASM 3rd model 1848 Dragoon. We were trying to make it chain fire but the only way was to not cap the loaded chambers on ether side of the fired chamber. We were using card and paper over the chambers not lead balls for safety reasons. We just wanted to see if all we heard about how easy it was to get a chain fire was true. In our limited experiment it's not that easy.
I often used to load six and cap 5 for western action matches.... never had a chain fire... but that was with a Remington which has better protected nipples than the Colts.
Even though the caliper measured width of the two balls are both 0.452, the difference is that the length of the lead that is 0.452 is greater on the 0.457 ball than on the 0.454 ball. The sphere of lead (and its volume) is greater for the 0.457 ball. This means there is a greater amount of surface area from the 0.457 ball in contact with the chamber (and will be with the rifling) than the surface area compared to the 0.454 ball. If you were to use a 0.460 ball, it would still be shaved down to 0.452 at its width, but that length of lead that measures 0.452 would be even greater - and therefore even more surface area in contact with the chamber. Essentially the balls are be coming cylinders the large the diameter of the ball been forced in. I use 0.457 in my "44 cal" revolvers and 0.375 in my "36" cals. You can use large balls, they just get harder to seat.
That’s exactly what I said but if you are concerned, at all, with accuracy then the chambers should be teamed closer to groove diameter or slightly larger if the mechanics of the revolver will allow.
Agreed
Imagine.......Bigger Balls!!!
Chain fires can happen at the front when there is a “lip” at the chamber mouths where it is smaller at the mouth than inside, so the ball isn’t tight in the chamber. Alternatively, damage to the chamber mouths can lead to gouges that create flame channels around the ball.
From the cap end, using too hot of caps (which are now common for reliability of ignition), can create enough flame to engulf other caps. If those caps are even a fraction of a millimeter too wide, it can set up a chain fire.
The reason to use .457 for a .44 and .380 for a .36 is because each ball size varies by a small amount. You want to make sure that the smallest out of spec ball in the bag is still able to shave a ring. There are only benefits to using an oversized ball. It gives a larger driving band for the rifling to engage, and it adds weight to roundball, which is the lightest projectile weight for caliber to begin with. Every extra grain adds around 10 foot pounds energy, so it matters to have slightly extra lead per ball.
This video assumes people are smart enough to understand all those things….
If you watch the video " what causes a chain fire " he will prove to you that chain fire happens at the front of the cylinder and not at back .
By using undersized balls which is antithetical to this discussion
@@buckoff4162 I will also say sprue orientation, though as the video of yours showed the length of the flat surface caused by the chamber was a certain length and the larger the diameter of the ball starting with the longer that flat side will be. The smaller the diameter the shorter the flat surface. I think for good measure go oversized and have that buffer of long flat lead against the chamber wall.
@@kevinbietry7527 so you would sacrifice accuracy thinking that more seal is needed? Colt didn’t design the revolver that way and the Italians build them the way they do as a cost cutting measure.
@@buckoff4162 how does increasing contact with the bore decrease accuracy? If anything colt designed them to run bullets not balls and they have more contact.
I think you missed part of the video
If the cylinder bores are out of round, it doesnt matter.
why haven't I had any change fires, when I grease my cylinders?
The one and only time I had a chain fire was when I didn’t lube over the chamber mouth. Pinching caps never lead to chain fires for me. Just my experience.
Lol chain fire never happens from the cap side.
Is this a Kirst cylinder ? Or a Howell?
Using a 45lc or acp cylinder to show how a blackpoder round ball cylinder fits?
Talking about how a cylinder “fits” when the video is about projectile size versus chamber dimensions?
Hello I have a question, it s look like pietta 36 are bigger than uberti. I try 375 on it but the ball fall in the chamber and run freely in the barrel for a centimeter.
Did they size for 391?
I see a couple hundred Pietta navy revolvers a year and have never seen one with Chambers that large. Have you measured the ball and chambers to be sure everything is as you think?
I use eras gone bullet molds .390 diameter Conicles for my .36 pietta
I’m triggered 😂
This is contrary to everything I’ve heard and adhered to as a result of what so many of the RUclips “experts” I’ve followed say. I refuse to abandon the false paradigm I’ve adhered to. Haha.
But we know- the definition of an expert is Ex is a has been and spert is a drip of water under pressure lol
Great video sir! I enjoyed this a lot!
I do wonder though. Is there a remedy for the Italian copies?
Can they be brought to proper specifications?
Incase anyone missed the obvious- I was kidding about being triggered and refusal to abandon my false paradigm.
I watched this a couple times now n i can not figure what you are trying to convey.
If you swage an oversize ball into a chamber it takes the size of the chamber, or at least the openning. Right, right we both got that. I cant fallow the point you are trying to make beyond that.
@@jacobwilbert1018 your typical chamber size is in the .440 range, your bore is going to be .45+
@@SayMyNameOutLoud
Right, in cap n ball revolvers. So hes just stating that?
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