Excellent info. I’ve never had a scope slip, but also, I’ve never scoped anything with more recoil than a .308. And I haven’t used LocTite on rings or bases. One thing you didn’t mention that I think is important: after screws are all barely snug, progressively tighten each screw a bit in rotation, and repeat the rotation until all have reached desired torque at the same time. I also watch that the gaps between upper and lower halves of the rings stay the same through the process. LOL what you said about applying much torque to cheapie no name rings from [major online seller who gets no-name junk from large Asian nation]. Those screws and the “allen” wrenches that come with them are true low grade junk steel.
I've used Loctite in the past for a variety of gun applications, usually blue, and sometimes purple. I've installed a number of scopes in American Defense rings/mounts, and they come with a little pouch of Vibra-tite VC-3 threadlocker. That is now my go-to threadlocker for all sorts of applications. You smear a bit on the screw threads, and let the solvent evaporate. It's basically like Nylock in liquid form. You can loosen and adjust the screws, and you can even prep the screws hours or days in advance. The one catch is that it uses a pretty nasty solvent, and apparently can't be shipped to some states.
Many years back I had a Browning 300 Win Mag with a ferocious recoil, never knew why, but it would move the scope base and loosen the screws on the rings and bruise your shoulder after a couple rounds. The original scope 4-12 Redfield with Redfield base and rings are still on it and not going to come off without machining. They were all put in place with epoxy, the guy who owns it now knows all about it and never plans to remove any of it. Very extreme to keep it shooting, the recoil is still the same.
Fastener metallurgist here. I would actually recommend aluminum-base anti-seize grease (no need to shovel it on, a little dab'll do ya!) ANY time you're threading aluminum into aluminum, such as a buffer tube into a receiver. Thread galling is the biggest risk here. As far as scope rings, I lean towards using quality parts with threadlocking compound and 20% reduced torque. Any rings/screws so weak that they'll break before loosening with medium-strength threadlocker are too crap for me to waste my time on.
When I worked at a gun shop in Germany, the master gunsmith would apply laminating epoxy to the rings to stop the scopes from moving with recoil. The screw would not be epoxied or coated with locktite, as it was not needed if properly tightened.
Important tip: if you buy a factory "package" rifle, with scope and rings installed, you MUST take it all apart, clean and reassemble ( I use either blue locktite or powdered rosin on screws).. I've found countless rifles with loose fasteners, oil filled holes etc, straight out of the box ;)
The gap(s) involving the ring caps can be evened up (side to side,,and front cap to back cap) with use of an automotive feeler gauge. Helps get rid of pinch effect. With the close tolerancing of tubes to rings , I cant eyeball the gap that well anymore without an ".005, or ".010 feeler shim. The importance of a good torque driver is even more necessary when using 4 screw ring caps.
Purple Loctite is the tight one to use (LOCTITE 222) - blue (LOCTITE 243) is too much for little screws like this. I don`t use any Loctite on rings/optics. Degreasing is really the important thing.
The name of the video was scope base and ring torque. Did I miss you saying how much torque to use on the base? I heard you say 15-20 for the rings. You should also specify to people that this is INCH-POUNDS and not FOOT POUNDS.
Took my scope to the range after installing it using 18in/lbs like the mount suggested and I noticed the scope was sliding forward after shooting so many rounds, .308 caliber AR, any idea if tightening the screws more would solve the issue?
People say I'm stupid, but I buy a scope for a rifle, blue locktite on everything and use titebond roofing adhesive in the ring to scope connections and torque lightly and forever that mount, never had an issue and if I do, I'll be so old I won't care. Or buy another gun, that is actually fun. Once I put a lite on, if that lite is trash, I love to start fresh, I have a job, f it.
Anybody else seen what they charge for their torque wrench. You can get them just as good for way less money. Also using blue and only blue and very very little is perfectly fine and will save you major headaches down the road like your scope spinning upside down.
Why wouldn't you use a soldering iron to heat up the scope ring screws? It would give you precise heat without affecting the scope. Still, I would not use permanent loctite on scope ring screws...
15 to 20in-lb on dry clean threads is plenty, get a fat wrench or go to your auto parts store and get a in-lb wrench. There's no real reason to be torquing something without a measuring device.
Blue Locktite is the wrong one to use. Blue locktite is for 1/4" to 3/8" fastener. You should be using 222 or better 222MS locktite this is the right formula for these ring and mount screws People use blue because they keep hearing bad Infomation like this
I'm a gunsmith, and I actually use thin, double-sided tape for high recoil rifles. I wrap it around the scope exactly where I'm going to put the rings. It's cut to be only an exact single layer all the way around. Then, I carefully place the top of the ring straight down on it. Then, I use the alternating method you should always use (start on one side then go kiddie corner to the other side, then over to the other side then kiddie corner to the other side etc.) And I torque it down to manufacturer torque specifications which, is actually usually 18 inch lbs of torque now-a- days in most modern mounts (it used to be 15 inch lbs more often but most manufacturers have moved away from that to 18 inch lbs). Then, I fire the rifle to zero and one zeroed I verify that I can use the dials to create a perfect square and then return to zero. Then, they never ever come loose. There's no accidentally crushing your scope, and you don't run into problems of removing the scope ring screws like you would with loctite. Been doing it that way for 1,000's of customers and haven't had any problems (except occasional super crap cheap mounts can have weak screws that snap off, but that has nothing to do with the tape and everything to do with the quality control during manufacturing, but even then, if you only lose one screw, because of the thin (thin is important here) double-sided tape the scope still doesn't lose zero and then you can just extract the broken screw and put a new one in after your hunting/ range trip) I also encourage everyone to check their equipment before and after they fire their weapon and to periodically check that torque to make sure it stays properly torqued because screws threads on both the screw and the mount can stretch over time. But, again, that double sided tape stops the big failures. Leaving you with just your, what should be standard, preventive maintenance.
@@natew.-victoryorvalhalla4571 Thanks for your reply , about 45 years ago a gun Smith told me to put a tiny drop of valve grinding compound ( 10 to 15 thousandth of an inch ) on the top rings . Have been doing this since then and have never had a scope move it the rings. Have used this method on 45 70 , 340 WBY , 300 WBY , 7 STW , 270 WBY with good success
Very good point on torque change due to lock tite. In my industrial field we use a 20% torque reduction as a correction.
Excellent info. I’ve never had a scope slip, but also, I’ve never scoped anything with more recoil than a .308. And I haven’t used LocTite on rings or bases. One thing you didn’t mention that I think is important: after screws are all barely snug, progressively tighten each screw a bit in rotation, and repeat the rotation until all have reached desired torque at the same time. I also watch that the gaps between upper and lower halves of the rings stay the same through the process.
LOL what you said about applying much torque to cheapie no name rings from [major online seller who gets no-name junk from large Asian nation]. Those screws and the “allen” wrenches that come with them are true low grade junk steel.
I've used Loctite in the past for a variety of gun applications, usually blue, and sometimes purple. I've installed a number of scopes in American Defense rings/mounts, and they come with a little pouch of Vibra-tite VC-3 threadlocker. That is now my go-to threadlocker for all sorts of applications. You smear a bit on the screw threads, and let the solvent evaporate. It's basically like Nylock in liquid form. You can loosen and adjust the screws, and you can even prep the screws hours or days in advance. The one catch is that it uses a pretty nasty solvent, and apparently can't be shipped to some states.
Many years back I had a Browning 300 Win Mag with a ferocious recoil, never knew why, but it would move the scope base and loosen the screws on the rings and bruise your shoulder after a couple rounds. The original scope 4-12 Redfield with Redfield base and rings are still on it and not going to come off without machining. They were all put in place with epoxy, the guy who owns it now knows all about it and never plans to remove any of it. Very extreme to keep it shooting, the recoil is still the same.
👍👍never used loctite on rings…… never had a problem. Thanks fellows .
Never had a problem? Is it because you never shot the firearm after you installed the rings?😂 😂😂. Just kidding.
@@onionhead5780 😆😆I guess that would be one way to not have any problems.
Thank you both, another good tip. Really enjoy you all.
Fastener metallurgist here. I would actually recommend aluminum-base anti-seize grease (no need to shovel it on, a little dab'll do ya!) ANY time you're threading aluminum into aluminum, such as a buffer tube into a receiver. Thread galling is the biggest risk here. As far as scope rings, I lean towards using quality parts with threadlocking compound and 20% reduced torque. Any rings/screws so weak that they'll break before loosening with medium-strength threadlocker are too crap for me to waste my time on.
When I worked at a gun shop in Germany, the master gunsmith would apply laminating epoxy to the rings to stop the scopes from moving with recoil. The screw would not be epoxied or coated with locktite, as it was not needed if properly tightened.
Thank you guys for the information.
Thanks. Good info.
Important tip: if you buy a factory "package" rifle, with scope and rings installed, you MUST take it all apart, clean and reassemble ( I use either blue locktite or powdered rosin on screws).. I've found countless rifles with loose fasteners, oil filled holes etc, straight out of the box ;)
My destructions say to use an impact when installing rings and bases
Do it right! Get yourself one of those big old Ingersoll Rand 3/4 inch drive two-handed Impact Guns!
The gap(s) involving the ring caps can be evened up (side to side,,and front cap to back cap) with use of an automotive feeler gauge. Helps get rid of pinch effect. With the close tolerancing of tubes to rings , I cant eyeball the gap that well anymore without an ".005, or ".010 feeler shim.
The importance of a good torque driver is even more necessary when using 4 screw ring caps.
I use purple loctite on optic mounts and usually reduce the torque by 10%.
Lol “the destructions”
Can you guys cover lapping the scope rings?
Have you ever tried green thread locker . It is not as agressive as red or blue but it retains the fastener. It also will wick up vertical fasteners.
What is your opinions on Vibra Tite?
Dido 👍
Thats the only way to go!
Better than Loc-tite.
Steve was doing this stuff before Caleb was saying goo-goo, ga-ga and messing up his diapers. LOL
What do you recommend for torque attaching a rail to a brass henry 45-70?
Use the fix it stick all in one torque. You'll get very accurate torque on your scope rings and base.
I use loctite on ring screws but haven’t had any problems. Main thing is to never over torque or strip your screws
Purple Loctite is the tight one to use (LOCTITE 222) - blue (LOCTITE 243) is too much for little screws like this.
I don`t use any Loctite on rings/optics. Degreasing is really the important thing.
The name of the video was scope base and ring torque. Did I miss you saying how much torque to use on the base? I heard you say 15-20 for the rings. You should also specify to people that this is INCH-POUNDS and not FOOT POUNDS.
I use blue locktight on springer air rifles.
Took my scope to the range after installing it using 18in/lbs like the mount suggested and I noticed the scope was sliding forward after shooting so many rounds, .308 caliber AR, any idea if tightening the screws more would solve the issue?
People say I'm stupid, but I buy a scope for a rifle, blue locktite on everything and use titebond roofing adhesive in the ring to scope connections and torque lightly and forever that mount, never had an issue and if I do, I'll be so old I won't care. Or buy another gun, that is actually fun. Once I put a lite on, if that lite is trash, I love to start fresh, I have a job, f it.
Never did get an answer on any video! Give it your best guess!
What about loc tite on bases?
I had to email primary arms because it was nowhere to be found in the manual for my slx.
Anybody else seen what they charge for their torque wrench.
You can get them just as good for way less money.
Also using blue and only blue and very very little is perfectly fine and will save you major headaches down the road like your scope spinning upside down.
Why wouldn't you use a soldering iron to heat up the scope ring screws? It would give you precise heat without affecting the scope. Still, I would not use permanent loctite on scope ring screws...
Would never get hot enough with all the aluminum conducting the heat away. Aluminum is an excellent conductor of heat
because the heat will still transfer to the scope tube long before you heated the rings up
Is it really that common of an issue that people destroy scope rings? It seems pretty simple to do correctly.
It seems every time I start googling stuff a tech tip comes out.. suspicious 😂
15 to 20in-lb on dry clean threads is plenty, get a fat wrench or go to your auto parts store and get a in-lb wrench.
There's no real reason to be torquing something without a measuring device.
I occasionally use blue loctite but 99% of the time it’s Vibra tite.
Blue Locktite is the wrong one to use. Blue locktite is for 1/4" to 3/8" fastener. You should be using 222 or better 222MS locktite this is the right formula for these ring and mount screws People use blue because they keep hearing bad Infomation like this
Torque on the rings to the rail?
Manufacturer specs is usually the best answer to that.
Is there any coffee in that cup?
Yes
Wheeler can't call it a Thick Wrench because F.A.T. stands for Firearm Accurizing Torque.
Lol, the Midwest industries mount says 25 inch pounds ooof. Seems like a lot more than 15
Sounds good! What the heck!
: OUTSTANDING info information : 🐢 👍 🐢 😲 🐢 😀
I wish you would have covered hard recoiling rifles such as the 300 WBY , 300 Ultra Mag ect .
They did
I'm a gunsmith, and I actually use thin, double-sided tape for high recoil rifles. I wrap it around the scope exactly where I'm going to put the rings. It's cut to be only an exact single layer all the way around. Then, I carefully place the top of the ring straight down on it. Then, I use the alternating method you should always use (start on one side then go kiddie corner to the other side, then over to the other side then kiddie corner to the other side etc.) And I torque it down to manufacturer torque specifications which, is actually usually 18 inch lbs of torque now-a- days in most modern mounts (it used to be 15 inch lbs more often but most manufacturers have moved away from that to 18 inch lbs). Then, I fire the rifle to zero and one zeroed I verify that I can use the dials to create a perfect square and then return to zero. Then, they never ever come loose. There's no accidentally crushing your scope, and you don't run into problems of removing the scope ring screws like you would with loctite. Been doing it that way for 1,000's of customers and haven't had any problems (except occasional super crap cheap mounts can have weak screws that snap off, but that has nothing to do with the tape and everything to do with the quality control during manufacturing, but even then, if you only lose one screw, because of the thin (thin is important here) double-sided tape the scope still doesn't lose zero and then you can just extract the broken screw and put a new one in after your hunting/ range trip) I also encourage everyone to check their equipment before and after they fire their weapon and to periodically check that torque to make sure it stays properly torqued because screws threads on both the screw and the mount can stretch over time. But, again, that double sided tape stops the big failures. Leaving you with just your, what should be standard, preventive maintenance.
@@natew.-victoryorvalhalla4571 Thanks for your reply , about 45 years ago a gun Smith told me to put a tiny drop of valve grinding compound ( 10 to 15 thousandth of an inch ) on the top rings . Have been doing this since then and have never had a scope move it the rings. Have used this method on 45 70 , 340 WBY , 300 WBY , 7 STW , 270 WBY with good success
I always go 2 lbs more than specified lol. Just to make sure the torque wrench is at or barely above the needed torque setting
I use beeswax on my screws, rings and bases, have never had them come loose and were easy to take off.
Why's he call his dad Steve
Used a fat wrench on mine set at 10 lbs stripped it right out lesson learned do it by feel
Wheeler is garbage.
That was painful to watch. Not your best segment.