Fixing a Toro 190cc Mower That Won’t Start. Timing is Off and Gas is Blowing Out of the Carburetor
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- Опубликовано: 4 авг 2020
- Watch as I dive in on a Newer Toro 7.25 190cc that wont start and is shooting gas out of the Carburetor. Chances are when something like this is happening the timing is off and the Cam Shaft has skipped a few teeth or the sheer key on the flywheel is broken.
This was a fun project and the first time I have ever had to replace a Cam Shaft in a Briggs and Stratton.
Engine Model number is Briggs & Stratton 128M05-0026-F1
Part number for the Head Gasket is: 799875
Part number for the Cam Shaft is: 590463
Part number for Sump pan gasket is: 692232
No matter where you work on something that the kids got to play right there I always thought that was pretty funny
If you want the kids to play somewhere else for a while threaten them with having to stand around while you teach'um about fixing lawnmowers. They'll be quietly playing around the corner for hours.
So true
It happens too me all the time lol my tools show up in the strangest places
When I was out of work I made a few dollars out of old lawnmowers.
I need a pickup truck so I have a workbench anywhere I go
The wire wheel scares me on an aluminum head but it sure does a good job cleaning.
Excellent Work 1/21/2023
Thanks for watching! Cheers!
I had a similar Briggs mower, and everything checked out (spark, fuel, compression) but it just wouldn't start. Checked the flywheel key, and it looked OK. The crankshaft and flywheel key way alignment looked just a teeny bit off. Took the key out and you could barely see the offset imprinted on the key. Replaced the key, and the mower started right up. So if in doubt with the key, replace it, even if it isn't sheared. It may just take half a degree or even less off timing to prevent a start-up. Great video!
It doesnt take much at all. My moto with flywheel keys is... When in doubt, SWAP IT OUT! Thanks for watching! Cheers
Just a suggestion, if you have a compression tester, that's a lot faster. If it doesn't have compression the first thing I check is the head/ valves. I worked on a Briggs OHV and the valve guide on the intake moved and held the valve open. The fix was remove the valves, the guide, had the guide knurled replaced the valve guide and had a machine shop grind the valves and seats. Not cheap, but it runs great even better than new. If it has the compression release should have at least 50 PSI to about 65. If it doesn't have the compression release should have at least 60 PSI to over 100PSI (that would be a very good compression)
For a beginner your doing a very good job Sir. Keep it up and you will keep learning.
I should have test started for everyone as you and another mentioned. It had compression but because of that cam being broke it was always changing.
@@Ajsupcyclegarage
Thank you for your response Sir. It makes sense that it might have good compression at one point then drop off when the cam got out of timing. Still a good video Sir.
Excellent repair with good persistence
Always check the flyw😮heel key when you have covers off.
I wasn't sure where you were going there for a few minutes, but in the end this was an excellent repair! Glad you were able to recycle a used camshaft. Very thorough in replacing the belt while you had better access. 2 thumbs up!!
I agree completely, nice job, was what I was looking for. Did you show putting the sump cover on twice? What did I miss here?
Thank you! it was quite a job. I wanted to show as much as I could in this video (mistakes and wrong guesses alike) in hopes that it would help others too. Cheers!
@@tomfowlbal1185 Ill have to watch it again. I'm a fixer... still working on my video editing abilities. Rookie at best. Thanks for watching. Cheers!
I am a new subscriber after watching your video that was just awesome the best mower video I have seen you found the cause congratulations my friend just class
Phil in stone in the UK
Next time you make a video put those annoying kids in the house !!!! Great video !!!
Not gonna lie... this comment makes me want to include them in every video. ;) Cheers. Thanks for watching!
Those are great mowers, so glad u saved it from the landfill!!!
Great job! I have this mower, minus the key start. Best mower I ever had! I cant believe there are internal plastic parts!
Great video. I see you use safety squints, too.
Brilliant well done.
1st compression test before just taking head off just saves time.
I admire your determination !! Good job !
Nice job!
Thank you for this amazing video. I'm not sure I would do it, but now I know what it takes. I have the exact same mower, a non starte,r with some compression, a clean carburetor and spark, and will measure actual compression next.
Fantastic video thank you.
Good job keeping it out of the landfill, I always try to do the same. I have this exact same mower/engine, would have never guessed the cam shaft and gear were plastic.
This one had me stumped because it was spinning in the engine. it would have compression and then it would loose it. It would faintly pop like it wanted to start but would backfire out of the carb. Kind of a wild ride on my end. Cheers! Thanks for watching
Great job!
Amazing job, thanks Lewis
Nice job 👍
I believe cris-cross pattern is the way to go!!
Great video and very good job. Well done.
Thank you for watching! Cheers!
Great video!👍Great job!👍
Good job.
Great video! Thanks for that in depth fix
Thank you Jeff! Hope it was helpful! Cheers!
Great job mister.
Thank you! Cheers!
Nice job!👍
Thank you! Cheers!
I admire your never give up attitude. BTW they purposely make those components out of plastic or something less strong than metal so that if they fail they won't tear up the engine. This is common in many things. I have seen it in high end lathes and other machinery. It's smart engineering.
You are correct, the issue I have with it is when these plastic pieces fail the mower gets thrown away, not rebuilt. Would be better for the parts to not be plastic and then the engines could last longer.
The manufacturer wants you to scrap it and buy a new one keep them in business
@@bray1461 If they wanted that they wouldn't make them out of plastic that is easily and cheaply replaced. They'd make them out of metal so they do tear up everything causing the need for a new machine. You have it completely bass ackwards. lol.
@@snappingbear my point is most people will not tear into there lawn mower they will scrap it and buy a new one plastic will not last as long as metal so they will need to purchase sooner keeping the money flowing.....
@@bray1461 The plastic is cheap and designed to fail to protect the more important components. Most people I know will fix it themselves or get a mechanic to fix it at much less the cost than a new purchase.
Fantastic
Job well done, good eye catching that Crack n the cam gear.
You have to look really close on some of them! Thanks for watching! Cheers
Awesome!
Right stuff it's a better silicone than that I'll throw that comes in a can so it doesn't dry out as fast it's a little pricey but you'll never have a leak
Good job but when you work under the deck please pull the spark plug wire
That is defiantly a good safety step to take. This engine is equipped with an engine brake and is controlled up on the handle bars but you are correct. If you want to be sure... Unplug it!
timing is related to the flywheel key
unless someone has had it apart before you
Normally with the flywheel it wouldn't be spitting it out the carburetor which is why I went that direction first. The flywheel key only controls the ignition timing not the valve timing. You are correct though.... My moto with flywheel keys is... When in doubt, SWAP IT OUT! Thanks for watching! Cheers
If it still burns oil, maybe the valve guides are worn and or rings are stuck! More than likely there was excess oil in the cylinder head fro tipping it over! Great video! thank You!
Correct. Luckily it was just burning it off from me having it torn apart and flipped upside-down. Thanks for watching! Cheers
You should use the gasket, it sets the endplay for the crank. There are actually different thicknesses to adjust endplay.
You are totally right. I was waiting for someone to mention this. I would have used one of I had it.
@@Ajsupcyclegarage not only sets the endplay for the crank but also its a no no to use silicon gasket maker for mating parts with spinning vibration transferred thru it...a fiber gasket wont deteriorate from vibration loads like a silicon gasket will...the sump silicon gasket will fail long before other parts will because of this....first rule is dont use gasket maker for parts with vibration loading from spinning parts between the gasket...
@@timw6281 actually, many manufacturers such as kawasaki, stihl, etc.. use a sealant rather than a gasket to mate their sump onto the crankcase. It is very common in the small engine world. But there are some that use the gasket to set the endplay. You just have to know which one you're dealing with.
@@dangroce82 ive worked on the stihl and others that use sealant instead of gaskets and theres a precut groove in the middle of the mating surfaces on one side to form escentually an o ring from the silicone to seal the surfaces...unless its designed for it...a gasket is the only correct solution for flat surfaces with spining parts between them...
@@timw6281 kawasaki uses sealant, honda uses sealant, neither have a groove as you suggest. I would rather use a fiber-type gasket, but you can't argue that kawasaki and honda aren't successful using sealant rather than traditional gaskets. Other manufacturers are following suit in the small engine field. It is, like it or not, a tried and true method, as long as you don't need the gasket as mentioned to set endplay.
Aweso Briggs with auto chock just like quantum from 10 15 years ago.
Choke lol
Best auto choke design to date
verry good job
Thank you! Cheers!
Fun video. Would have like to see a base line. Try to start, see what it’s doing etc. Thanks
Im going to make several more videos this spring and summer. I will be sure to do that. Thank you for watching
You can adjust rear wheel to put bottom bolt in easy
to paraphrase the immortal w c fields, do you have the proper amount of air in the tires ? of course, it may be the wheelbase. well done. way to persevere. thank you for posting.
You don't take off the sump to check timing, you check the keyway, under the flywheel. The timing marks don't jump.
On some of the plastic cams, the gears don't move but the cam lobes can
Unless the cam gear broke like this one ;)
@@bertgrau3934 yep, that's what happened on this one!
I'll do that same my problem leaking oil to head cylinder,, many thanks...
Never miss the perfect opportunity to clean the deck and undercarriage.
Awesumz👍
Take fine sandpaper and go around crank lube well and the bottom plate will come right off
Try checking the flywheel key ! Quite often they shear !
It sure does! Good suggestion! Thanks for watching
I'm going to check my old reliable mower and see if this is what's wrong. I pull the recoil string and it snatched out of my hands and the mower lifted and dropped. Has not started since. I've replaced the carburetor, plug, fuel line, changed the oil and gas, bought a replacement coil, new air filter, cleaned everything and it still won't start. Checked the flywheel and flywheel key. I'm going to take the engine loose tomorrow and try what u did. I have 2 other mowers but I hate for something to beat me. I was going to put the old carburetor back on because this one seems to leak gas and I couldn't figure why and I know nothing is loose. I don't think. This thing is driving me crazy! Thanks for the video. Hopefully this fixes it.
Need to adjust valves
@@joeguidry9744 I'll look for a video on that. I think I've seen one about them showing that the valves move and aren't stuck. When I took the head off both were moving. So even if the valves move it can be a problem with them?
I have had this happen to me when the metal Pulley and Blade holder under the deck has a broken Shaft key and it spins slightly on the shaft below the mower deck. Craftsman started using these on newer mowers and they fail if you hit something. Saves the engine shaft from bending but if you don't change it out your mower is junk because it will sound like its knocking, it will rip the cord out of his hand, and several other things. Check that.
@@Ajsupcyclegarage I just this week decided I'd give old girl another try. I replaced the adapter that holds the blade. The 2 round places on both sides that hold the blade were broken off so I ordered a new one. Mower still didn't start. I'm going to see if I tightened the bowl on the carburetor tight enough. I don't think it's getting gas. I changed the fuel line. I've had this mower nearly 20 yrs. I prefer it over my newer ones. Any other suggestions let me know. Thanks
@@cbreezy1322 Sounds like you found the cord getting ripped out of your hands issue. Now try taking the air breather off and spraying some starting fluid into the intake. If it starts and dies (and has gas in the tank) your issue is probably a dirty carb. If nothing happens you either have no spark or the timing is off and its sparking at the wrong time. Try pulling the fly wheel off and checking the flywheel key. If it isnt perfect replace it and reinstall the flywheel and try again. This involves the ignition timing thats why I say check it. after that try a new plug and be sure your kill wire isnt grounding out and is actually opening up when you pull the safty handle back on the handlebars. Good luck!
Did this Toro recycler have a cast iron cylinder liner or anodized aluminum?
I have the exact same push mower with the exact same problem. Its been sitting for a year until I find a donor camshaft. They are a little pricey!!
That is the only way to do it I'm my opinion because the new cams are costly. Look on Craigslist / FB Marketplace for freebies. Count the teeth on it to ensure its the correct cam. Also, Make sure to use the Gasket on the sump. I didn't use one (because I was trying to finish this video with out waiting for more parts in the mail) and it still does not leak but its best to have one.
This guy knows his stuff.
Where do you get parts for your lawn mower.
HEY !!!! It's working how about that!!!!!
Show AJ where did you get the parts for the five lawn boys that you have I have a lawn boy riding mower tractor??!!
I was lucky enough to find parts mowers so I didn’t have to order anything.
When you removed the gasket for the sump and installed gasket maker you changed the crankshaft end play by the thickness of the gasket. Is it too much who knows but always reuse a gasket when one comes off…
what are using to record this ? and have you ever dug into an mtd with the 123cc chineese knock of engine with gouverneur issues. just curious now that i watched you thanks tell family to take care
Just my phone. I don’t believe I’ve ever worked on that engine
Ill try to make a video on this over the upcoming summer
Briggs and Fisher Price should merge!
I realise that this is an old post but honestly the cam is a massive load bearing component why they would use plastic instead of steel is ridiculous.
don't you need to turn the piston to top dead or approaching before lining the cam/crank marks?
He did
i have the same lawn mower like this one /on mine certaintly have a spark & clean caburator clean but there is no way to start may be it's fly wheel cam shaft is gone too ? (ohm measure on coil ground to prime 2 ohms / ground to secondary 6k ohms )
It could be the flywheel key is partially sheered as well. it sounds like you are trying to eliminate things one at a time and that is the right way to approach it. If you spray carb cleaner down the throat of the carburetor... will it run and die?
@@Ajsupcyclegarage Yes Master I found my key splited into two pieces / It's very suprise that may happen when the mower hit the hard root or a rock with full speed/ I'm ordering that key already when i'm finished I'll let you know
Thanks
@@Ajsupcyclegarage /also I already spray Cleaner but no luck /Let see after I'll replace the key that broken /if it start again I'm thrill
Pulled the head before checking spark and compression?
The compression was changing from full compression to no compression every other time I pulled it. I wanted to see if it had a stuck valve. I check for spark by shooting carb spray down the intake tube and it did nothing besides spit it out. I appricate your thoughts. Thanks for watching
Js it posible for you to give me the valve clearins on this lawn mower, as i can not find any torque specs or adjustments on it, please.
what is the model number on the engine?
@@Ajsupcyclegarage I found it, thank you.
Hi sir. My lawn mower engine when I want to start it gives reaction power and pulls the cord quickly do you know what the problem and how can I fix it please thank you
Hello, The fly wheel shear key has probably has probably been sheared. The timing is off a little now and its ripping the cord out of your hand. You need to remove the flywheel and replace the key and retorque + reassemble. that's my guess anyhow
@@Ajsupcyclegarage hi sir. I find the solution. It’s need valves adjusting
I agree that plastic internal engine parts are total garbage. I can't think of a better example of planned obsolesence than plastic internal engine parts.
Your 100% right! From what I see every summer ... no one knows how to take care of anything or is to lazy to. Seems like people throw mowers away if they get dirty anymore so maybe its smart that they don't waste money on good parts. People are never going to change the oil anyways. HA!
Help please, my riding mower does'nt start, I used a spark plug tester to test for spark and i get a spark connect the spark wire back to the spark plug and won't start but if I leave the spark plug tester in line between the spark wire and the spark plug it will run, what could be the problem?? Thanks for any help.
Try a new plug. Could also be a bad coil wire
MAS - Possible a loose / bad contact between plug wire and spark plug - or - a broken / bad plug. Suggest you go to a car parts store, buy a new plug, have them properly gap it for you and swap out the old plug for the new one. Make sure the spark plug wire snaps tightly onto the new plug tip. If it works then you are in high cotton and the old plug was bad. If the problem still exists it could be coil air gap or just a bad coil. New spark plug is the cheap and easy first step
@@joesinakandid528 I replaced the spark plug and now is running much better thank you for you help
where do you get the "torque" image so you can check how much torque you apply to the bolt?
Harbor Freight
I wish you lived in Dallas,Tx....I have a toro recycler that won't start and would love to find someone with your work ethic to fix it. Dealer says I should replace it....I think they just want to sell a new mower to a "female" that doesn't know anything. Oh well.....really enjoyed your video.
Use starting fluid engine sounds dry it needs to pick up the gas stRting fluid would help
lots of times sombudy hit somthing and the shear key let go
He alt to of checked that well he had it apart the first time
Plastic camshaft = planned obsolescence. I've got an old quantum I am trying to fix, and it probably doesn't have a camshaft problem, but it might not long after I get it running because old plastic gets brittle.
Your camera is to far away we can’t see you do anything to that motor what good it is
Yeah... Im a small engine guy and not a camera guy. LOL. Ill try to do a better job on the next videos. Thanks for watching!
Not show so sorry AJ
Hi.look..goob.
Torque specs
Should of checked the valves.
They were bumping when I had the head off. The cam would go in and out of timing because of the broken cam gear. So when Iooked it was fine but then after I would try to start it the gear would turn and the timing would be off.
Thanks for watching
The mower was giving to me n the lady said she started it up n blow white smoke what would cause it
To much oil would be the first thing you should check.
Too much plastic on machines today.
Barefooted repair ? Lol
You aint livin until you are fixing lawn equipment barefoot. I'm trying to show up those guys out there that are slingin lawnmower parts with crocs on. ;) Thanks for watching! Cheers
Who runs a lawnmower in bare feet ??
apparently that day... I did lol
I'm trying to show up those guys out there that are slingin lawnmower parts with crocs on. ;) Thanks for watching! Cheers
go with a honda those b/s motors are junk just when you need them they get hot and crap out go with the old motors
Ain’t that the truth
volume too low !
Yeah sorry, my editing skills are not the best. sorry about that
It's a piece of shit motor, junk it and find a better motor.
or just fix it and make it run 🤷♂
@@Ajsupcyclegarage or just keep dropping money in a bottom less pit.
I had parts laying around so it didnt cost me anything to fix it. I think the cams are about 50-60$ so if you have some time and a little know how... 50-60$ is cheaper than a new mower or engine. Last time I checked a new engine is around $300 or more depending on what your trying to drop in there. Thanks for watching. Cheers
Plastic cam,sure spent alot of time getting nothing done,fuel,air,compression,timing.
You forgot to check the flywheel key since you where down there,this is why you can't bring them in to get fixed because the time it takes them you could buy a new one, but I give you an A for effort, good luck.
Yep, the flywheel key only controls ignition timing and not the valve timing. I was getting compression and then no compression the next time I would try to start it. I pulled the head to see if a valve was stuck. You're right... defiantly a lot of dinking around for a silly push mower but hopefully that helps someone in a pinch. spending 50-75$ and a little time is better than having nothing at all if your budget doesn't allow the purchase of a new engine or mower all together. Thanks for watching!