Make sure any linear bearing that moves horizontally is rotated in a way that the top side of the rod is touched by two rows of balls (at 1:00 and 11:00 o'clock). If there is a ball row at 12:00 o'clock, any slack of the bearing will make it swing left and right making it noisy as the ball rows on the sides hit the rod. Also the load is more evenly distributed this way.
I had planned on using these when I built my Hypercube. I tried to run it at .600 V for the VRef, but ended up having to run it up to .9V to avoid any layer stepping. Runs like a stealthy beast now though :) I can be sitting at the computer and forget that I had started printing something, even with the printer sitting about a meter behind my back. Super quiet. Love it.
you were not reusing your 8mm rods, you were reusing your 5/16 rods. 5/16=.3125. .3125x25.4mm=7.9375 or as your calipers pretty much said- 7.94. You must be careful when buying multiples off 8mm & 19mm these are within .06mm and .05mm of their imperial twin. Vendors of these items may unknowingly mess up your project if they are not competent. Great for sockets, but a nogo with precision machinery.
Your right. Precision ground shafting for rotary motion or linear motion also have different tolerances that should be checked. Tolerance for 8mm shafting for linear applications is typically +0/-.009mm while for rotary it's +0/-.005mm.
I have been researching 3D printer kits for a while. Your video walk through of this build has provided me with a tremendous amount of knowledge. Your attention to detail and meticulous testing of various components to ensure the most accurate results for this printer is inspiring. As such, I have decided to build your design. I truly appreciate all the work you have done to help others build a functional printer. This includes the videos, the parts lists, and other information required to build the HyperCube. To say thank you I will be sure to purchase items using your affiliate links. I do have one dilemma that will prevent me from building this printer and that is access to the printed parts needed for the build. Is there a service that would print this kit for me? Cheers, Greg
Let me elaborate. Full stepping is normally used on the Z axis because you are guaranteed that, assuming you have 0.02mm per step, when you step into a direction the plate will move exactly 0.02. In a microstepping situation though, lets say 8 microsteps, you are absolutely not guaranteed that when moving a step, the build plate will move 20/8=2.5 microns. It might not move at all or move toward the next step. Stepper drivers might make bold claims but in reality the accuracy is not improving, and in static situations like the Z axis it might actually suffer. In a X/Y application it would lead to smoother operation, and should have no adverse effect on accuracy. On a side note, as i am understanding, you would need only 16 steps to drive the TCM2100 and it will multiply them to 256? That would be great, because arduino based controllers would really struggle above 16 or 32 msteps per step.
assuming the movement is 100% easy to move- it does provide accuracy- in real world however with the friction and wobble and forces- its more like a spring that smooths out motion. its not reliable. the only way to get microsteps to perform is pull up your motor amperage super high. that's why its best to get small pullies and or move to 0.9 steppers to get real -world results for resolution without loud prints
i think using 2 gears instead of microstepping will be superior, since you dont loose torque (infact you increase it) + you get real non interpolated "resoloution". For Exaple Gear1 8 or 10 teeth and Gear 2 = 80 or 100 teeth. Also using a 0.9 degree Motor will reduce the torque/resoloution problem by 50% :).
Thanks for the close up on the rear motor, I'm currently modifying your design to fit a frame I already have and needed to see where to position my 6mm rod compared to the motor
The most drastic difference I made to both of my printers (Sintron Kossel & SmartrapPlus) was to place anti slip mat under them. Its the soft mesh stuff you get in DIY stores. It isolates all vibration by about 95%.
Regarding the X-Axis rails - An interesting side effect of the Core-XY drive system that I found in my build is that it also provides the XY axis alignment, the XY bearing carriers do not play much part in XY alignment (getting them square). I did my XY alignment by differing the tension on the two belts; tensioning the lower one and locking it then changing tension on the upper one until the XY axis is square. This side effect is nice in that the XY bearing carrier prints do not have to be exactly square so small print defects can be corrected! Thanks for another tips on the Hypercube, useful as always! - Eddy
Have you tried 3d printed bushings? I've had some success with making some out of PETG. I have Taulman 910 that I want to try too. In order to reduce friction without sacrificing precision I make the hole a square with the sides the same length as the rod diameter, then print the bushing vertically so that they are just vertical walls. Then I take a drill bit with the right diameter and clean up the holes. Because the holes are square there's a lot less plastic in contact with the rod (it is only in contact at 4 points and not around the entire rod) which reduces friction, but the bearing is still captured and cannot move or wobble around. In order to reduce friction further I hollow out most of the middle so that it only leaves 5mm of the square holes at the ends. This actually leaves lots of space to fill up with grease if you want to try lubricating the plastic. There are also tons of drop-in replacement designs on thingiverse to try out. The benefit at the end of the day is a lot less vibration and no metal against metal. Plastic bushings just aren't going to rattle the way the individual balls inside linear bearings do. If that fails you always get off-the-shelf IGUS bushings.
Yes replacing the LM8LUU with a polymer will solve the noise, but as I found out in video Build Log #15, the XY_Joiners clamp around the bushing and disfigure the shape. This vastly increases friction and so I couldn't use them here. Good idea with your method, thanks for sharing :)
IGUS do have 3d printing fillament. I got a 10m sample from them and I made a few tests and a few bushings it. Right now i've put 1 of the bushing on my printer to test it's durability. You really have to make it just a tad loose, so it doesn't bind.
Pilot16H, you heard that about prior model of Igus bushings, and you probably heard it on Thomas Sanlanderer's video. Allegedly the newer RJMP series doesn't need to be pressed into final dimension, as it's designed for ring mounts that couldn't possibly do that.
It looks like the belt drive gear on the left-side motor is out of round. That may have a part in the rattling, but while listening, I was homing in on those stacked belt idler bearings in the corners. I think they may be either buzzing up and down or too loose on their bolt. Perhaps holding a pencil eraser on the various subcomponents of those idler assemblies can help you isolate the vibrations.
Very nice! Stepper drivers technology progresses. Clocking the linear bearings symetrically with 2 ball rows opposing gravity help along with Dow Corning 111 grease.
For higher accuracy, disable microstepping and use mechanical reduction on motors. There'll be harsher moves but some flexible joints and flexible couplings may help to solve this. Nice comparison btw, thanks for the video!
belt strings helped me reduce the belt transferred vibration by a good amount but I heard they can reduce the print quality. no issues here tho. the issue was on my Y axis only!
From ABH on the Raise3D forums: "In the datasheet for TMC2100 it is stated: "Attention: microPlyer only works perfectly with a stable STEP frequency". Well, a 3D printer has nothing but an unstable step frequency! It accelerates and brakes and changes motor direction all the time, just think of a rectilinear infill pattern, usually created at quite high speed." Long story short, the TMC2100 algorithm is a look-ahead algorithm that can easily produce partial and whole skipped steps under the right conditions. The newer series of TMC22XX chips solve this problem and are just as quite. I was having the skipped steps problem and am now using the TMC2224 on my Raise3D N2 printer and getting spectacular results and no skipped steps at about 0.5vdc.
it can change your resonance frequency when you increase the entire mass of the printer. Ive done it- it works, try to bolt it onto the hard surface though- it also makes for better prints as the movement doesn't wobble the printer. next time your at bunnings just get a big tile slab for like 15 bux and CA glue your feet to it to test - do a before and after
I went with Sorbothane 3/4" diameter. Work great. They're used in the High End Audio field for damping vibration on turntables, preamps, tube amps, and other vibration sensitive devices. No affiliated with these guys AT ALL, but I got them from www.isolateit.com . I also use them in my audio equipment, so I know they work. NASA and the military use Sorbothane in many applications.
I'm glad you're finally doing these sorts of things with the HyperCube now it's all mechanically dialled in. It's almost insulting to the printer's ability to make it suffer the crappy old RAMPS and A4988s ;)
After that you'll need a Volcano hotend to keep up with the speeds possible :) I'm sure you've seen Bryce Standley's video where he found layer adhesion was poor above 150mm/sec due to the small melt zone of the V6 heater design.
I will second the Duet WiFi, i love it! One little thing i've requested is to allow us to connect to more complex security protected networks, not something the average user needs though.
I have 3 duet wifi's and an original duet 0.6x board. Far superior to ramps with tmc2100 drivers. I've had those too and if they aren't on 24v the motors whine a bunch unless they somehow fixed that issue. It is a costly upgrade, but wifi access to your printer without the need for extra hardware like a pi with octoprint is better and it has better tmc drivers on there as well..
Beautiful work.. but that twisted belt is making my OCD flare up. I also realize this is quite old.. but consider replacing your bearings with the printed option for a less rattling.
Tmc2100 need a good heat to work properly, or in the printing process will be out of step. Need extreme air cooling or water cooling can be used normally, the temperature is too high when the work.
I wonder if you could modify the stepper motor mounts to have an imprint where the dampeners would go. So they would sit up in the parts. you probably wouldnt lose any strength because you are replacing plastic with metal.
256 microsteps are supposed to be way too hot for the 8 bit arduino to handle . try printing the cylinder you used to benchmark on the ' hypercube 8 bit speedwall ' with 256 microsteps you may see the artifacts on the cylynder even when printing at slow speeds . i cant confirm this but its just theory . for this reason i use a drv8825 on 16 microstep settings for my 3d printer to solve this issue a 32 bit microcontroller is needed to replace the 8 bit arduino to print happily with 256 microsteps
Yes they would solve the rattling noise, but I tried them in video Build Log #15. The XY_Joiners disfigure the shape of the IGUS bushing and causes the motion to be sticky and brake. A hard shell polymer bushing should work though.
Tech2C Igus bearings are not a direct replacement for LM8UUs. The metal bearings have a 15mm OD and the Igus bushings have a 16mm OD. Even the captive Igus bushings have the larger OD. You need an XY Joiner with a 1mm larger bearing hollow :)
Not that I can see. RJM-01-08, RJZM-01-08, and RJZM-03-08 self-aligning carrier all have OD 16mm or 15.8mm. What's the part number of the ones with 15mm OD?
Hello and thank you very much for very informative videos. I am quite new in 3d printing field, I want to ask you. I have a 3d printer and I want to make for it new aluminium frame. Is it possible to increase printing area just by relocating stopswitches or some software adjustments are also needed? Thank you very much. Regards...
I use HR4988 1/128 driver set at 1/64 mode for XY-axis and 1/128 mode for extruder and Z-axis, I also run the whole printer at 60mm/s, it is extremely quite and while printing what I can hear is just fan noise and nothing else, a better driver worth it. Consider the price is just around 1USD each, I would say it is a good chip alternative to normal A4988 too
You couldn't use a 1/128 driver in a RAMPS board. The Arduino can't step fast enough, it can only manage about 10kHz accurately and 40kHz while quadstepping. The fastest that a single motor could move is less than 32mm/sec, and you use more than one motor while printing so two motors would move at 16mm/sec. I don't expect miracles but I want to print faster than that ;)
I use a custom Arduino 2560 board. And also because the Arduino isn't fast enough, I had to run the XY axis in 1/64 mode, so I can get faster print speed, but for Z and Extruder, they rarly move at high speed, so a 1/128 stepper driver is fine
Do you think that i could put everything that you have outside the frame inside? Like the power supply and the extruder? I want to make one fully enclosed by aluminum panels. Thank you!
Why my stepper motors after replacing the stepstic's and setting the voltage to 0.6 volts during the printing sound squeaky? There is no video on your video. Have you edited anything else in Marlin?
Spread Cycle is still quiet. In fact my inkjet printer is louder than that. I have been tempted by these drivers for a while now, but have been unsure if they will drive my steppers (Nema 17 48mm 2.5A). Has anyone seen the TMC 2660 drivers available anywhere yet? Might just have to break the budget and purchase a Duet Wifi.
On your thingiverse parts list, you link a teflon PTFE tube. Should i order the 1.75mm or 3mm variant? Guessing 1.75mm since i use that filament? Oh and, so far, have you found any downsides to using carbon rods instead of alu?
I use a large gaming mouse mat!, works well for damping 3d printer noise, I had an old one knocking about and tried it, it works great!. Where did you buy them linear bearings they sound really bad, what brand are they?, Are your rods 8mm or under size?
A corrugated plastic tube that has a split down the side to allow for easy cable/wire insertion and extraction. www.mcmaster.com/#split-loom-sleeving/=17fn6gw
@Tech2C How about the new(er) TMC2130 ? Worth the change out? I am building the hyper cube and my daily, and would love for it to be as quiet as possible!
hey just a ps. i added dampeners to the xy motors and it reduced my print quality and caused issues. I guess the reason being on this printer (corexy) the belt tensions directly affect the skew and all of the x/y axis. so I don't recommend doing that for a corexy printer.
Hi, I just brought the Anycubic i3 Mega, the the PLA broke in the feeding tube not near the extruder and the feeder, would you be able to advise how to remove the PLA, and is the PLA being brittle normal?
My fan sounds like jet taking off so I'm planning to replace them. What brands would you recommend among these? Nidec Funcooler Sunon Evercool (please specify bearing type) I will be replacing at least two of the drivers with TMC2130 and hotend with genuine E3D V6 because Chinese clone got screwed up with malicious filament which was a bit too elongated. P.S. I have no problem with other factors of noise, though the Y axis bearing is making worryingly large amount of black powder...
Do both your printers use 80 steps per mm on X & Y axis? I'm at 100 steps/mm so far, with anet a8 nema17 motors, and the hypercube scaled up 2cm in each direction
Your CGF6 pin is set to GND or open? CFG6 is the pin just under CFG1 and it seems to be set to GND at 8:25 while mine is set to open... www.trinamic.com/fileadmin/assets/Products/ICs_Documents/TMC2100_datasheet.pdf
I have a question for you and that is how do I switch X with Y? In my printer's design my motors are both on one side (say right hand side) instead of in the back. How does the CoreXY handle something like this? Does it matter? I ask because with my printer's front that is towards me it ends up like your printer did in the very opening of this video. I have no access to the build plate on the side with the motors and on the direct opposite side (the same orientation you had in this video). My printer is basically 90 degrees off from yours.
I guess it matters where the endstops are. You have a choice of min or max for the X and Y axis endstop location. And correct me here, but if you've rotated your motors 90 degress to my setup, the your X is Y and Y is X? It may be easy to slice your files at 90 degress so it faces you whilst printing?
Well, look at how you had your printer when you showed it moving without the rods and that is precisely how my printer is set up but whilst you would remove the print from the side (if using it like that) and I would from the front I can't figure out how I would tell Marlin it is shifted. I could do it in the slicer but man oh man it would begin to get confusing so I was hoping there was another way. On a plain box printer I would just swap the motor wires but for a CoreXY it controls those two motors for X and Y. If my print says to move 100mm in the X direction something tells me CoreXY would move it in the Y by 100mm with my setup.
In that case I would connect the X-Carriage endstop to Y MIN on RAMPS, and the Y axis endstop into X MAX on RAMPS. You'll need to update Marlin for X endstop direction (from -1 to 1). Then I believe you have 4 combinations of the motor connections to try. FF, FR, RF, RR. F=forward, R=reverse.
Endstop has to be swapped for a regular printer as well but I know zilch about CoreXY. If I have two motor plugs shouldn't there be only four combinations possible as you said? forums.reprap.org/read.php?4,347816,353444#msg-353444 This said eight, shows eight too, which has me befuddled.
Damn, your spreadcycle is so quiet! Mine makes a really loud whining noise (Similar to DRV8825). I boosted the driver's voltage from 12 to up to 34.6V and it didn't make that much of a difference.
I am getting the same noise. Reducing current doesn't help. I tried upping the chopper frequency by reducing the slow decay to its min, as well as setting hysteresis and blank time to 'recommended' settings, which reduced it but didn't eliminate it. I guess it just comes down to the motors :(
wait you only put your stepper drivers at 0.6v? for my y-axis I had a lot of miss-steps at 0.9v so it's at 1.2v now x is at 0.9v z is at 1.5v (because 2 motors), E0 is at 0.8v Also get a 40mm fan adapter i think the e3d uses 30mm? and a noctua fan. ugly color scheme but silent.
First nice video, I am glad that you also got this nasty rattle and tried to solve . You should have recorded sound closer to the printer, for me it sounded like I could still hear the rattling all the time ! But if you say that the TMC will fix the rattling I will also order ... my problem is that my rattling is over 50 mm/s and it gets worse when increasing speed, I will put some dampening material under my printer I saw some feet that use tennis balls as dampers ...
If yours rattles the faster you move, then maybe a component is really lose, or one of the step driver sticks is faulty. Try moving 1 motor at a time by moving diagonally, it should be much quieter.
Tech2C I already identified the rattle as being caused by only one of the motors and then switched motors but it stayed so probably it is one of the sticks . Problem is I have a Printrboard so no way to change sticks . Then I bought a RAMPS clone with A4988 sticks, configured it but it seems to rattle even worse than the Printrboard . So now I am thinking to buy either 2 DRV or 2 TMC2100 just for X Y ... of course I rebuilt the printer 3 times with different bearings, IGUS, bushings etc but no change .
Hello, can you share or recommend what speed and layer time you use for the cooling ? Recently I found out that my PLA prints on unheated bed they basically get loose at about 25 mm of print height, I suspect that my fan is too strong and is cooling the print too strongly . Of course I could disable it but it is still needed for some bridges and some cooling helps with PLA but I don't know some way to calibrate it
Did you ever find the cause of this noise? My HyperCube just started doing a similar thing after I switched control boards, though I'm using the same sort of driver chip (A4988) and same firmware on both boards. I thought it was a loose screw or nut but seems not. I'll try your solution so I've ordered TMC steppers as well.
Hey! Nice video, thanks! Are you using 12 or 24 V? Reason I ask: I run my Kossel @12V and at that voltage, the TMC2100s will hiss quite badly with spreadcycle enabled. I nearly *have* to use stealthchop, otherwise my ears would fall off... any similar experiences?
I have the same problem. The Whining noise should be reduced on Spreadcycle over 18V. But I've tried up to 34.6V and it didn't make that much of a difference. If I'm not mistaken, it comes down to inductance. Some motors will just be quieter than others.
They are not "drop in" per se, but they do have step/dir pins (and enable) that are 3.3v (and 5v tolerant due to logic level shifting). I have them running on my RAMPS and Smoothieboard. They are directly compatible with the I/O on RAMPS and Smoothieboard. Look at my channel for examples or look at the "Tropical Labs" channel. They show tons of good information.
Sevendogtags That's true, they are not polulu in price, but you will never miss a step again! And you will never have layer shift from motor harmonics either.
I have. I hear a high pitched squeal from the motors so I don't use them. Also they require the Arduino to process the 32 micorsteps which reduces our CPU ability on the old 8-bit processor.
Do you have a link where I can read more about that? I will receive a Delta Kossel DIY Kit soon. It comes with Arduino, Ramps and DRV8825. As deltas need more calculations for their movements, I want to use 1/16 microstepping, but if you're right, the arduino would need to calculate 32 microsteps, no matter if the DRV8825 is jumpered to 1/16, which would be sad.
Maybe this has already been suggested but when you installed your linear bearings did you make sure you installed them in a X pattern What I mean by that is the balls should form a imaganary X with the too on top and bottom on the right and left side of the rods. if not check that it will cause premeture wear if not installed correctly
Make sure any linear bearing that moves horizontally is rotated in a way that the top side of the rod is touched by two rows of balls (at 1:00 and 11:00 o'clock). If there is a ball row at 12:00 o'clock, any slack of the bearing will make it swing left and right making it noisy as the ball rows on the sides hit the rod. Also the load is more evenly distributed this way.
@Conor Weston Definitely, been watching on instaflixxer for months myself =)
@Conor Weston Yup, I've been using instaflixxer for since november myself :D
I had planned on using these when I built my Hypercube. I tried to run it at .600 V for the VRef, but ended up having to run it up to .9V to avoid any layer stepping. Runs like a stealthy beast now though :) I can be sitting at the computer and forget that I had started printing something, even with the printer sitting about a meter behind my back. Super quiet. Love it.
you were not reusing your 8mm rods, you were reusing your 5/16 rods. 5/16=.3125.
.3125x25.4mm=7.9375 or as your calipers pretty much said- 7.94. You must be careful when buying multiples off 8mm & 19mm these are within .06mm and .05mm of their imperial twin. Vendors of these items may unknowingly mess up your project if they are not competent. Great for sockets, but a nogo with precision machinery.
Your right. Precision ground shafting for rotary motion or linear motion also have different tolerances that should be checked. Tolerance for 8mm shafting for linear applications is typically +0/-.009mm while for rotary it's +0/-.005mm.
I have been researching 3D printer kits for a while. Your video walk through of this build has provided me with a tremendous amount of knowledge. Your attention to detail and meticulous testing of various components to ensure the most accurate results for this printer is inspiring. As such, I have decided to build your design. I truly appreciate all the work you have done to help others build a functional printer. This includes the videos, the parts lists, and other information required to build the HyperCube. To say thank you I will be sure to purchase items using your affiliate links. I do have one dilemma that will prevent me from building this printer and that is access to the printed parts needed for the build. Is there a service that would print this kit for me?
Cheers,
Greg
Hi Greg, thanks for your kind words and support. For the printed parts you can try the 3DHubs website.
Cheers!
"Spooky action at a distance" HAHAHAHA I get it
richmanricho ahaha, just casually alluding to quantum entanglement
or just, regular ass gravity. lmao.
6:33 - Microstepping does not provide greater accuracy. This is a common misconception. It is only for smoothness.
In hindsight a better word would have been resolution. 1/16 micro-steps will provide greater resolution than 1 full step.
Let me elaborate. Full stepping is normally used on the Z axis because you are guaranteed that, assuming you have 0.02mm per step, when you step into a direction the plate will move exactly 0.02. In a microstepping situation though, lets say 8 microsteps, you are absolutely not guaranteed that when moving a step, the build plate will move 20/8=2.5 microns. It might not move at all or move toward the next step. Stepper drivers might make bold claims but in reality the accuracy is not improving, and in static situations like the Z axis it might actually suffer. In a X/Y application it would lead to smoother operation, and should have no adverse effect on accuracy.
On a side note, as i am understanding, you would need only 16 steps to drive the TCM2100 and it will multiply them to 256? That would be great, because arduino based controllers would really struggle above 16 or 32 msteps per step.
assuming the movement is 100% easy to move- it does provide accuracy- in real world however with the friction and wobble and forces- its more like a spring that smooths out motion. its not reliable. the only way to get microsteps to perform is pull up your motor amperage super high. that's why its best to get small pullies and or move to 0.9 steppers to get real -world results for resolution without loud prints
i think using 2 gears instead of microstepping will be superior, since you dont loose torque (infact you increase it) + you get real non interpolated "resoloution". For Exaple Gear1 8 or 10 teeth and Gear 2 = 80 or 100 teeth. Also using a 0.9 degree Motor will reduce the torque/resoloution problem by 50% :).
Thanks for the close up on the rear motor, I'm currently modifying your design to fit a frame I already have and needed to see where to position my 6mm rod compared to the motor
The most drastic difference I made to both of my printers (Sintron Kossel & SmartrapPlus) was to place anti slip mat under them. Its the soft mesh stuff you get in DIY stores. It isolates all vibration by about 95%.
Regarding the X-Axis rails - An interesting side effect of the Core-XY drive system that I found in my build is that it also provides the XY axis alignment, the XY bearing carriers do not play much part in XY alignment (getting them square). I did my XY alignment by differing the tension on the two belts; tensioning the lower one and locking it then changing tension on the upper one until the XY axis is square.
This side effect is nice in that the XY bearing carrier prints do not have to be exactly square so small print defects can be corrected!
Thanks for another tips on the Hypercube, useful as always!
- Eddy
tcm2100 drivers, my fans are ALOT louder than my printer since I switched over
links?
thank you! :)
Have you tried 3d printed bushings?
I've had some success with making some out of PETG. I have Taulman 910 that I want to try too. In order to reduce friction without sacrificing precision I make the hole a square with the sides the same length as the rod diameter, then print the bushing vertically so that they are just vertical walls. Then I take a drill bit with the right diameter and clean up the holes.
Because the holes are square there's a lot less plastic in contact with the rod (it is only in contact at 4 points and not around the entire rod) which reduces friction, but the bearing is still captured and cannot move or wobble around.
In order to reduce friction further I hollow out most of the middle so that it only leaves 5mm of the square holes at the ends. This actually leaves lots of space to fill up with grease if you want to try lubricating the plastic.
There are also tons of drop-in replacement designs on thingiverse to try out.
The benefit at the end of the day is a lot less vibration and no metal against metal. Plastic bushings just aren't going to rattle the way the individual balls inside linear bearings do.
If that fails you always get off-the-shelf IGUS bushings.
Yes replacing the LM8LUU with a polymer will solve the noise, but as I found out in video Build Log #15, the XY_Joiners clamp around the bushing and disfigure the shape. This vastly increases friction and so I couldn't use them here.
Good idea with your method, thanks for sharing :)
You can try and print the joiner and bushing as one part.. ;)
IGUS do have 3d printing fillament. I got a 10m sample from them and I made a few tests and a few bushings it. Right now i've put 1 of the bushing on my printer to test it's durability. You really have to make it just a tad loose, so it doesn't bind.
I'm using printed LM8-style bearings on both X and Y axis. Working fine so far.
Pilot16H, you heard that about prior model of Igus bushings, and you probably heard it on Thomas Sanlanderer's video. Allegedly the newer RJMP series doesn't need to be pressed into final dimension, as it's designed for ring mounts that couldn't possibly do that.
Best, most straightforward explanation of the TMC2100's that i've seen. Great job.
"HyperCube 3D Printer free download:" this makes it sound like you're just downloading a printer for free entirely xD
that clicking from the split loom is why i use braided weave on my printer. also it looks way nicer!
It looks like the belt drive gear on the left-side motor is out of round. That may have a part in the rattling, but while listening, I was homing in on those stacked belt idler bearings in the corners. I think they may be either buzzing up and down or too loose on their bolt. Perhaps holding a pencil eraser on the various subcomponents of those idler assemblies can help you isolate the vibrations.
Very nice! Stepper drivers technology progresses. Clocking the linear bearings symetrically with 2 ball rows opposing gravity help along with Dow Corning 111 grease.
For higher accuracy, disable microstepping and use mechanical reduction on motors. There'll be harsher moves but some flexible joints and flexible couplings may help to solve this. Nice comparison btw, thanks for the video!
belt strings helped me reduce the belt transferred vibration by a good amount but I heard they can reduce the print quality. no issues here tho. the issue was on my Y axis only!
From ABH on the Raise3D forums: "In the datasheet for TMC2100 it is stated: "Attention: microPlyer only works perfectly with a stable STEP frequency". Well, a 3D printer has nothing but an unstable step frequency! It accelerates and brakes and changes motor direction all the time, just think of a rectilinear infill pattern, usually created at quite high speed."
Long story short, the TMC2100 algorithm is a look-ahead algorithm that can easily produce partial and whole skipped steps under the right conditions. The newer series of TMC22XX chips solve this problem and are just as quite. I was having the skipped steps problem and am now using the TMC2224 on my Raise3D N2 printer and getting spectacular results and no skipped steps at about 0.5vdc.
Some people say using a slab of concrete as the base also helps with dampening vibrations.
it can change your resonance frequency when you increase the entire mass of the printer. Ive done it- it works, try to bolt it onto the hard surface though- it also makes for better prints as the movement doesn't wobble the printer.
next time your at bunnings just get a big tile slab for like 15 bux and CA glue your feet to it to test - do a before and after
That would make the printer a bit heavy to move around, haha.
yea makes it hard when i bring my printer to church every weekend :P
I went with Sorbothane 3/4" diameter. Work great.
They're used in the High End Audio field for damping vibration on turntables, preamps, tube amps, and other vibration sensitive devices.
No affiliated with these guys AT ALL, but I got them from www.isolateit.com . I also use them in my audio equipment, so I know they work. NASA and the military use Sorbothane in many applications.
I'm curious about what it is you are using your printer at church for?
Great design and thank you for sharing . I have multiple Robo3d printers and I am printing my parts for a Hyper cube.
I'm glad you're finally doing these sorts of things with the HyperCube now it's all mechanically dialled in. It's almost insulting to the printer's ability to make it suffer the crappy old RAMPS and A4988s ;)
So true, I need to move to 32-bits soon.
After that you'll need a Volcano hotend to keep up with the speeds possible :) I'm sure you've seen Bryce Standley's video where he found layer adhesion was poor above 150mm/sec due to the small melt zone of the V6 heater design.
huge difference in noise. :O
You should consider upgrading your ramps to something like a duet wifi. I have a duet wifi and love it
I will second the Duet WiFi, i love it! One little thing i've requested is to allow us to connect to more complex security protected networks, not something the average user needs though.
I have 3 duet wifi's and an original duet 0.6x board. Far superior to ramps with tmc2100 drivers. I've had those too and if they aren't on 24v the motors whine a bunch unless they somehow fixed that issue. It is a costly upgrade, but wifi access to your printer without the need for extra hardware like a pi with octoprint is better and it has better tmc drivers on there as well..
I've found that felt pads make great feet for isolating and dampening noise.
just made the conversion to the TCM2100 drivers, wow, man , almost can't hear the steppers anymore, thanks for the recommendation
Beautiful work.. but that twisted belt is making my OCD flare up. I also realize this is quite old.. but consider replacing your bearings with the printed option for a less rattling.
Tmc2100 need a good heat to work properly, or in the printing process will be out of step. Need extreme air cooling or water cooling can be used normally, the temperature is too high when the work.
I wonder if you could modify the stepper motor mounts to have an imprint where the dampeners would go.
So they would sit up in the parts. you probably wouldnt lose any strength because you are replacing plastic with metal.
girrrrrrr2
ive seen people use a peice of hose as a damper, a peice at each side of the screw like a sandwich, and it somewhat worked
if you have play and rattle in your bearings maybe try some angular preload on the bearings
256 microsteps are supposed to be way too hot for the 8 bit arduino to handle . try printing the cylinder you used to benchmark on the ' hypercube 8 bit speedwall ' with 256 microsteps you may see the artifacts on the cylynder even when printing at slow speeds . i cant confirm this but its just theory . for this reason i use a drv8825 on 16 microstep settings for my 3d printer
to solve this issue a 32 bit microcontroller is needed to replace the 8 bit arduino to print happily with 256 microsteps
How about replacing the LM8UU's with Igus Polymer Bearings?
Yes they would solve the rattling noise, but I tried them in video Build Log #15. The XY_Joiners disfigure the shape of the IGUS bushing and causes the motion to be sticky and brake. A hard shell polymer bushing should work though.
It would be great, then, to see you test out the ones with the metal casings!
Tech2C Igus bearings are not a direct replacement for LM8UUs. The metal bearings have a 15mm OD and the Igus bushings have a 16mm OD. Even the captive Igus bushings have the larger OD. You need an XY Joiner with a 1mm larger bearing hollow :)
No you're just looking at the wrong ones. They sell ones with a 15mm OD.
Not that I can see. RJM-01-08, RJZM-01-08, and RJZM-03-08 self-aligning carrier all have OD 16mm or 15.8mm. What's the part number of the ones with 15mm OD?
Thank you for posting! I'm switching from a printrboard, and this is the best comparison I've seen thus far.
I subscribed only because of your spooky action joke
But what about when the print head moves over the cross-section of a print and bonking into every part of the infill on the way?
I use polymer bearings and greased rods and I now get very little, if any, noise. Metal bearings tend to scratch the rods then grate after a while.
Hello and thank you very much for very informative videos. I am quite new in 3d printing field, I want to ask you. I have a 3d printer and I want to make for it new aluminium frame. Is it possible to increase printing area just by relocating stopswitches or some software adjustments are also needed? Thank you very much. Regards...
I use HR4988 1/128 driver set at 1/64 mode for XY-axis and 1/128 mode for extruder and Z-axis, I also run the whole printer at 60mm/s, it is extremely quite and while printing what I can hear is just fan noise and nothing else, a better driver worth it. Consider the price is just around 1USD each, I would say it is a good chip alternative to normal A4988 too
tmc work in a different way, yours are real microstepping tmc use the normal micorstepping but split each one in 256 sub-step.
You couldn't use a 1/128 driver in a RAMPS board. The Arduino can't step fast enough, it can only manage about 10kHz accurately and 40kHz while quadstepping. The fastest that a single motor could move is less than 32mm/sec, and you use more than one motor while printing so two motors would move at 16mm/sec. I don't expect miracles but I want to print faster than that ;)
Of course a 32-bit board solves this problem. RepRapFirmware steps at 240kHz and Smoothieware steps at 100kHz.
What controller did you use?
I use a custom Arduino 2560 board. And also because the Arduino isn't fast enough, I had to run the XY axis in 1/64 mode, so I can get faster print speed, but for Z and Extruder, they rarly move at high speed, so a 1/128 stepper driver is fine
Do you think that i could put everything that you have outside the frame inside? Like the power supply and the extruder? I want to make one fully enclosed by aluminum panels. Thank you!
Why my stepper motors after replacing the stepstic's and setting the voltage to 0.6 volts during the printing sound squeaky? There is no video on your video. Have you edited anything else in Marlin?
Spread Cycle is still quiet. In fact my inkjet printer is louder than that. I have been tempted by these drivers for a while now, but have been unsure if they will drive my steppers (Nema 17 48mm 2.5A). Has anyone seen the TMC 2660 drivers available anywhere yet? Might just have to break the budget and purchase a Duet Wifi.
On your thingiverse parts list, you link a teflon PTFE tube. Should i order the 1.75mm or 3mm variant? Guessing 1.75mm since i use that filament? Oh and, so far, have you found any downsides to using carbon rods instead of alu?
I use a large gaming mouse mat!, works well for damping 3d printer noise, I had an old one knocking about and tried it, it works great!. Where did you buy them linear bearings they sound really bad, what brand are they?, Are your rods 8mm or under size?
What is a 'split loom'?
The black tube you see on the printer's head.
A corrugated plastic tube that has a split down the side to allow for easy cable/wire insertion and extraction. www.mcmaster.com/#split-loom-sleeving/=17fn6gw
Indeed, had to do a google image search while watching
40mm/s is "slow"? heh. My printer max speed is something around 38mm/s :(. I guess I need a new 3D printer.
Can you do this upgrade to any 3d printer ? cause i want to get a Anet A3..... :/
@Tech2C How about the new(er) TMC2130 ? Worth the change out? I am building the hyper cube and my daily, and would love for it to be as quiet as possible!
hey just a ps. i added dampeners to the xy motors and it reduced my print quality and caused issues. I guess the reason being on this printer (corexy) the belt tensions directly affect the skew and all of the x/y axis. so I don't recommend doing that for a corexy printer.
Have you tried to rotate the yy bearings a little?
Are there any printers that use brushless motors and position encoders, instead of counting steps with conventional steppers?
Did you mean servo motors?
Do the bearings wear into the carbon rods?
Did you find carbon rods that were perfectly round?
Thanks!
Hi, I just brought the Anycubic i3 Mega, the the PLA broke in the feeding tube not near the extruder and the feeder, would you be able to advise how to remove the PLA, and is the PLA being brittle normal?
man i wish i could buy the plasric parts kit for this. i need a 3d printer so i can make a 3d printer:)
where did you get he black cable hose from ? i can not find it :(
Where did you connect your meter while adjusting that pot?
My fan sounds like jet taking off so I'm planning to replace them.
What brands would you recommend among these?
Nidec
Funcooler
Sunon
Evercool (please specify bearing type)
I will be replacing at least two of the drivers with TMC2130 and hotend with genuine E3D V6 because Chinese clone got screwed up with malicious filament which was a bit too elongated.
P.S. I have no problem with other factors of noise, though the Y axis bearing is making worryingly large amount of black powder...
i heard tmc2100 produce a lot heat on the motors. is that true? will it need to augment the motors with heatsinks?
Do both your printers use 80 steps per mm on X & Y axis? I'm at 100 steps/mm so far, with anet a8 nema17 motors, and the hypercube scaled up 2cm in each direction
Your CGF6 pin is set to GND or open? CFG6 is the pin just under CFG1 and
it seems to be set to GND at 8:25 while mine is set to open...
www.trinamic.com/fileadmin/assets/Products/ICs_Documents/TMC2100_datasheet.pdf
That pin is controlled by firmware. It's the driver enable/disable input.
I think you might also be missing the fact the all the cfg points have 3 states !! Open , shorted and GND
by shorted i mean pulled high to VDC
I have a question for you and that is how do I switch X with Y? In my printer's design my motors are both on one side (say right hand side) instead of in the back. How does the CoreXY handle something like this? Does it matter? I ask because with my printer's front that is towards me it ends up like your printer did in the very opening of this video. I have no access to the build plate on the side with the motors and on the direct opposite side (the same orientation you had in this video). My printer is basically 90 degrees off from yours.
I guess it matters where the endstops are. You have a choice of min or max for the X and Y axis endstop location.
And correct me here, but if you've rotated your motors 90 degress to my setup, the your X is Y and Y is X?
It may be easy to slice your files at 90 degress so it faces you whilst printing?
Well, look at how you had your printer when you showed it moving without the rods and that is precisely how my printer is set up but whilst you would remove the print from the side (if using it like that) and I would from the front I can't figure out how I would tell Marlin it is shifted. I could do it in the slicer but man oh man it would begin to get confusing so I was hoping there was another way. On a plain box printer I would just swap the motor wires but for a CoreXY it controls those two motors for X and Y. If my print says to move 100mm in the X direction something tells me CoreXY would move it in the Y by 100mm with my setup.
In that case I would connect the X-Carriage endstop to Y MIN on RAMPS, and the Y axis endstop into X MAX on RAMPS. You'll need to update Marlin for X endstop direction (from -1 to 1).
Then I believe you have 4 combinations of the motor connections to try. FF, FR, RF, RR.
F=forward, R=reverse.
Endstop has to be swapped for a regular printer as well but I know zilch about CoreXY.
If I have two motor plugs shouldn't there be only four combinations possible as you said? forums.reprap.org/read.php?4,347816,353444#msg-353444 This said eight, shows eight too, which has me befuddled.
What model are those black motors you have? Are they from stepperonline? Cheers
Just generic NEMA17 motors with 40mm height and 4.0kg.cm holding torque.
Damn, your spreadcycle is so quiet! Mine makes a really loud whining noise (Similar to DRV8825). I boosted the driver's voltage from 12 to up to 34.6V and it didn't make that much of a difference.
Sevendogtags
it will make a lot of a difference in the maximum speed you can achieve
I'm talking about the noise. It didn't change much. The noise is supposed to be reduced when the motors are over 18V.
Can you reduce the current to the motors without skipping steps?
I am getting the same noise. Reducing current doesn't help. I tried upping the chopper frequency by reducing the slow decay to its min, as well as setting hysteresis and blank time to 'recommended' settings, which reduced it but didn't eliminate it. I guess it just comes down to the motors :(
wait you only put your stepper drivers at 0.6v? for my y-axis I had a lot of miss-steps at 0.9v so it's at 1.2v now
x is at 0.9v z is at 1.5v (because 2 motors), E0 is at 0.8v
Also get a 40mm fan adapter i think the e3d uses 30mm? and a noctua fan. ugly color scheme but silent.
First nice video, I am glad that you also got this nasty rattle and tried to solve . You should have recorded sound closer to the printer, for me it sounded like I could still hear the rattling all the time ! But if you say that the TMC will fix the rattling I will also order ... my problem is that my rattling is over 50 mm/s and it gets worse when increasing speed, I will put some dampening material under my printer I saw some feet that use tennis balls as dampers ...
If yours rattles the faster you move, then maybe a component is really lose, or one of the step driver sticks is faulty.
Try moving 1 motor at a time by moving diagonally, it should be much quieter.
Tech2C I already identified the rattle as being caused by only one of the motors and then switched motors but it stayed so probably it is one of the sticks . Problem is I have a Printrboard so no way to change sticks . Then I bought a RAMPS clone with A4988 sticks, configured it but it seems to rattle even worse than the Printrboard . So now I am thinking to buy either 2 DRV or 2 TMC2100 just for X Y ... of course I rebuilt the printer 3 times with different bearings, IGUS, bushings etc but no change .
Oh that sux. It definitely sounds like the on-board stepper driver is faulty. Luckily a RAMPS kit is cheap ;)
Soft mounting the soft mount FTW!!!
What is split loom creaking? I printer clicks too!
just wondering is there a one click parts list anyone has assembled for this printer?
as i would like to build one myself
Short question - as my Prusa I3 on 8mm rods is also making these strange noises. Is the TMC stepstick the final resolution?
did you find a solution? if not, maybe try polymer bushings instead of linear bearings
Hello, can you share or recommend what speed and layer time you use for the cooling ? Recently I found out that my PLA prints on unheated bed they basically get loose at about 25 mm of print height, I suspect that my fan is too strong and is cooling the print too strongly . Of course I could disable it but it is still needed for some bridges and some cooling helps with PLA but I don't know some way to calibrate it
If you can't activate the heat bed, then add a brim to your prints.
bbogdanmircea I'm not sure what you're already doing, but you can set your fan not to come on for the first few layers and often that will help.
Did you ever find the cause of this noise? My HyperCube just started doing a similar thing after I switched control boards, though I'm using the same sort of driver chip (A4988) and same firmware on both boards. I thought it was a loose screw or nut but seems not. I'll try your solution so I've ordered TMC steppers as well.
Jamie did the tmc2100 steppers help? I have the same problem as well.
Same here.
Hey! Nice video, thanks! Are you using 12 or 24 V? Reason I ask: I run my Kossel @12V and at that voltage, the TMC2100s will hiss quite badly with spreadcycle enabled. I nearly *have* to use stealthchop, otherwise my ears would fall off... any similar experiences?
maybe rhis is the same problem with the DRV8825 ? www.engineerination.com/2015/02/drv8825-missing-steps.html?m=1
I have the same problem. The Whining noise should be reduced on Spreadcycle over 18V. But I've tried up to 34.6V and it didn't make that much of a difference. If I'm not mistaken, it comes down to inductance. Some motors will just be quieter than others.
Thanks mate, good to know, will keep this in mind.
TMC2100 at 0.60v ?? loses steps...I have this at 1.3v, works well
whats ur heat bed carriage？wood？
What do the TL smoothing boards do?
What about a nano zero stepper driver? I have these in my hyper cube. Super silent, and the don't heat the stepper motors.
btechnet are they a Drop in replacement for the pololu ones?
They are not "drop in" per se, but they do have step/dir pins (and enable) that are 3.3v (and 5v tolerant due to logic level shifting). I have them running on my RAMPS and Smoothieboard. They are directly compatible with the I/O on RAMPS and Smoothieboard. Look at my channel for examples or look at the "Tropical Labs" channel. They show tons of good information.
Did I mention that the Nano Zero Steppers are closed loop?
Damn, they're 50 bucks each! :D
Sevendogtags That's true, they are not polulu in price, but you will never miss a step again! And you will never have layer shift from motor harmonics either.
In firmware to change need to with 4988 on 2100 and where?
howmuch does a hypercube cost to build? with a clone hotend and all :P
that low key quantum mechanic joke nearly choked!
from where can i buy like these printer?
Link please
Feynman approved video, Einstien disapproved. ;)
Thanks for other great Video, Amazing!!!
Q:Which driver do you currently use in your printers?
What about Smoothieboard?
Have you tried the DRV8825? Do you think they're worth it over the normal A4988?
I have. I hear a high pitched squeal from the motors so I don't use them. Also they require the Arduino to process the 32 micorsteps which reduces our CPU ability on the old 8-bit processor.
Thanks! But you said the TMC2100 did 256 microsteps? Or does it do that independent from the CPU somehow?
Yes it accepts the same 16 microsteps from the controller and interpolates that into 256 microsteps. Very convenient!
So, no stress on the Ramps then? Ramps can barely keep up with 1/16.
Do you have a link where I can read more about that? I will receive a Delta Kossel DIY Kit soon. It comes with Arduino, Ramps and DRV8825. As deltas need more calculations for their movements, I want to use 1/16 microstepping, but if you're right, the arduino would need to calculate 32 microsteps, no matter if the DRV8825 is jumpered to 1/16, which would be sad.
At 0:11 quantum entanglement
OR you can get some bearing grease.
oh so you can't do much about the rattling? my belts transfer a ton of vibration.
A4988 Classic sound XD
my dirvers overheat after a few sec and stops working
Maybe this has already been suggested but when you installed your linear bearings did you make sure you installed them in a X pattern What I mean by that is the balls should form a imaganary X with the too on top and bottom on the right and left side of the rods. if not check that it will cause premeture wear if not installed correctly
Your Banggood link is out of stock. But if you search for "nema 17 vibration damper" on amazon or Ebay, you'll find tons for cheaper.
Nice!
actual measured results for microstepping: hackaday.com/2016/08/29/how-accurate-is-microstepping-really/
you sounds like colinfurz.
Great video.
but....
Am I the only one that is bothered by the twist in that belt?
Solution : unplug it
I am going to print like this in future, I will be able to save money on filament, and no one will be able to criticise my prints. :)
Print speed 100 km/s
too much talk mate
talking about 3d printing can never be too much