Toyota Mirai Hydrogen Fuel Cell hybrid car | Fully Charged
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 17 ноя 2015
- The world's first designed from the ground up, mass produced hydrogen fuel cell hybrid car.
Will Toyota's hydrogen fuelled offer be the start of the giant move away from fossil fuel burning?
Will the fuelling infrastructure be developed?
Will hydrogen that isn't stripped from fossil fuel become widely available and economically viable?
It's a great car to drive though. 
Авто/Мото
![DRAGON BALL: Sparking! ZERO - Fused Warriors Trailer [BUDOKAI TENKAICHI Series]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/84p4Lvyfyes/mqdefault.jpg)
Secret location.
*Shows GPS*
+Greenwolf25 *Misses that, but Googles 'Skywood' anyway . . * :-)
+Nick Cummings Skywood: goo.gl/zHbRfo
+paulwesterberg Real MVP
Just read the sign as he enters the main gate, add some Google and "Skywood House" quickly pops out.
Greenwolf25 lollll
A low efficiency car that runs on reformed natural gas, how exciting.
+JDViddy Exactly. 50% electricity wasted on electrolysis alone, then there's the compression and storage losses, AND the fuel cell efficiency losses as well. So yes you are wasting energy, and a lot of it.
And the biggest H2 producer is still the oil industry. You're still forced to put a coin into their slot.
No thanks. I'll stick to my Zoe and, in a few years, hopefully a Model 3. Which doesn't run on one of the most dangerous combustible gasses in existence, it's filled with over a hundred valves and solenoids that can all cause expensive failures, and costs more than a Model S.
+Toumal Rakesh exactly; why not go directly from wind to electricity to car? the argument that you have lots of wind (when?) should be used and applied in terms of the best energy production pipeline; Robert, you can do better comments than those on this video of yours!!
electric cars are simple and you become independent; hydrogen cars are complicated and you remain dependent; why is it good?
More: the pressure needed to completely fill the hydrogen tank is enormous, ins't it true one of the first buyers of this car only got the car delivered with half tank because the hydrogen station did not have enough pressure to pump more?
+pcdeflopes Once the wind power is converted to hydrogen is simpler to store.
+Toumal Rakesh
Industrial electrolysis is about 70% efficient (not just 50%).
The biggest problem (expense and time) is purifing the product of electrolisys. For use in hydrogen fuell-cells, hydrogen has to be minimum 99,97% pure. That means water vaper and other gases have to be removed, before hydrogen it is ready to use.
Looking over the entire hydrogen production process (electolisys, purifing, compressing, using (H fuell cell is about 50% efficient)) it is about 30% as efficient as using that electricity to charge a battery powered EV.
+MuitoDaora Use methane then. Much less corrosive, much less dangerous.
I feel bad for Toyota, throwing this much R&D money into something as obsolete as this.
LOL!
.
From Autocar... 'Don’t expect Prius levels of market penetration, though. With production limited to just 700 cars this year, Toyota says initial volumes will be restricted to just 12 in the UK, followed by a further 18 next year.'
And now in 2020..... hydrogen cars failed
I love these videos. Fully Charged has to be my favourite RUclips channel at present !
I look forward to Fully Charged 2018/19 when you can review (hopefully) the Bentley EXP-10 Speed 6, recently announced to be fully-electric on release!!
love the hydrogen powered cars...made from water, its amazingly good for the environment...makes pure water and cleans the air while you drive...nice work Toyota
+Matthew Sherman Current hydrogen is made from natural gas, it doesn't clean anything as it drives, and the water emitted Toyota recommends not drinking. You have got to stop being taken in by the propaganda.
Toyota is making a huge mistake. Rather than use energy to produce hydrogen to charge a battery, why not just use the energy to charge the battery. It's really hard to imagine why they are going down this path. If range is their argument, they should've use the R&D on battery capacity improvements. The only way they will succeed is if oil companies provide hydrogen at gas stations.
+Stace Karussos A possible reason may be collusion with the oil companies, since most Hydrogen is made from natural gas, a fossil fuel.
Seems likely.
+Stace Karussos Officially they claim it's because hydrogen is the fuel of the future, and is renewable via electrolysis. They wouldn't be wrong on that aspect, since oil as we know it is finite and will run out sooner or later.
But in reality, I think they're doing it because of the massive tax incentives given to them by both the government of Japan, as well as California. Japan wants to reduce their dependence on fossil fuels, since they have to import virtually all of their oil/gas.
So they're throwing tons of money at companies who are willing to make a hydrogen economy a reality, even if it doesn't make much sense financially. But hey, since when is govt spending ever done with common sense, right?
If they attempt to have hydrogen fuel cell vehicles survive on their own, it wouldn't last very long, since the car is expensive to build, the infrastructure is expensive to build, and the fuel is expensive to make. And plug-in cars are becoming cheaper to build/buy, with longer ranges and more charging stations popping up. Plus there's the fact that you can "fill them up" in your home, which is much more convenient and cheaper than going to a hydrogen station and hoping their stuff is working.
So expect them to lobby/bribe various governments to give fuel cells lots of subsidies, probably more than the ones given to the oil companies.
+Stace Karussos You ARE using the energy to charge the battery! Hydrogen is a energy carrying molecule. In the factory they use one electron (or two, too lazy to look it up) to break the bond between the molecules, and when combining the molecules again in the car it releases that exact same electron!
+mitchell van eldik TWO SCENARIOS: Use electricity - make hydrogen - transport to gas station - dump to car and convert back to electricity (in fuel cell)
.
OR: Just skip the middle/lossy stuff and dump the electricity directly to the car
.
As an EE option two makes more sense
.
Yay new fully charged video!
I have read that it takes 5-15 minutes to refuel. if you arrive immediately after another user has just finished it takes 15+ minutes to refuel as the pump needs to pressurise before delivering any fuel. Suddenly were in the region of current evs charging times which are already viable and useable. The technology in evs is also more controllable and known. The race is over before its begun......
+Ryan Noble THERE is no repressurize time since the station has HUGE tanks full of hydrogen, however the transfer time is 20 minutes since the inlet to the car is very small
.
+electrictroy2010 my understanding is the main tanks aren't under a constant pressure and the pumps therefore have a small pressurised tank ready which takes time to charge.
Cool car, but hydrogen fuel cell takes a simple battery EV and makes it complicated! I see this as beautifully complicated engineering for no reason.
+oisiaa Fuel Cell Vehicles largely exist to prop up the fossil fuel industry since most industrial scale Hydrogen is made from natural gas, a fossil fuel.
+Loanword Eggcorn This is for now. And even electricity is produced by fossil fuels.
+MuitoDaora If that's your argument, you've already lost :)
+MuitoDaora Except for electricity produced from renewable sources like wind and solar, which the world is already pushing for a heavier dependence on.
+oisiaa The plus side to Hydrogen is being able to simply refill the tank in a few minutes instead of waiting hours for an EV's batteries to charge.
thanks for educating the masses...people are for the most part in the dark about hydrogen...so thanks for being a voice of truth
What a one sided review.
Where is the comment that it is around 10 times more expensive to fill with Hydrogen than an electric car?
Where the mention that a hydrogen fuel station can't fill up more than a dozen cars a day?
No mention of the American Hydrogen filling station that blew up in 2010
No mention that 95% of all hydrogen comes from natural gas - so still a greenhouse gas & still dependent on the petrochemical industry
No mention that no one has successfully developed an accurate measuring device so the pumps can be "out" by up to 20%
No mention of the need for 4-5 more tankers to delivery the Hydrogen equivalent of Petrol due to the low energy density
etc etc etc
When you leave the parking lot at the start, there is a Tesla parked. Yours? :D
+Joren Vandamme Yes :-)
+fullychargedshow Robert. Seriously allowing the Fully Charged show to be used as an unwitting shill for this bunch of corporate criminals with their hydrogen fossil fuel scam while condemning VW's diesel scam makes absolutely no sense. PLEASE read and take the time to understand the following reality check fully: www.energy.ca.gov/contracts/notices/2012-07-10_workshop/comments/2012-09-17_Paul_Staples_Hygen_Industries_comment_TN-67178.pdf
+Gainsborough I have to agree. It just sounded so silly to me to have him explain the wind turbine creating electricity to make hydrogen. Then compress it? Then maintain it till it's used?
Isn't that outrageously silly when compared to just putting that energy into a battery?
+PaleHearse Batteries have limited range ,the fuel cell in generating electricity . The emissions from diesel is carcinogenic the emission from this is water .
+1lightheaded Your comment makes you either a fucking liar or a fucking idiot. Maybe people like you should make a clear disclosure which group you are representing as a pretext for your comments.
Minimal losses because its produced by wind? How does THAT fanciful math work?
Seriously. Please do the math and don't say "it doesn't matter".
How many miles do you get per kWh of wind generated?
And now you are retethered to going to fuelling stations?
And " no range anxiety" as if cars fuelled at fueling stations are immune to creating range anxiety?
This is bumming me out. I'm feeling betrayed.
+Ted Kidd Can you please rephrase your question?
+Ted KiddRobert was referring to the transmission losses - between the power station and end user. If the turbine is right next to the electrolyser, there would be no transmission losses.
+Kano Wins Basically he's asking how much electricity is required to make hydrogen via electrolysis? I don't have the numbers, but you do need quite a bit of it.
Sure, hydrogen fuel cell vehicles work out if money is no object. But since people don't really want to pay more for stuff, I doubt they'll want hydrogen FCV's over a plug-in vehicle, especially as plug-ins are coming down in costs, coming out with longer ranges, and more charging infrastructure is put in place at a fraction of the cost it would take to build out a nationwide/global hydrogen network.
Ok thanks for that explanation. Yeah it seems as though EV is taking over.
Damn, this show is so relaxing...please keep bringing more and more videos! :)
Musk was right. This thing is all but useless for day to day life other than refueling speed when compared to a fully electric vehicle. Why waist so much energy separating and compressing hydrogen when you can more or less just plug the car directly into the turbine and cut out the excessive machinery and electronics that can fail?
The tech might work for things like big rigs for long haul driving where you have the room for massive storage tanks but the weight of a fully electric isn't as viable, but it's not really cost effective for Tom and Jane Smith down the street when it's more expensive than even a gas vehicle.
1:50 Oh god, I would love to live in a solar powered modern house with an electric car in a suburban area with other houses also powered by solar panels, with the nicest people and the nicest government with nature parks and nice weather all year round!
Awesome. Thanks for the overview. It now has my interest... :-)
Love my 2017 Mirai !..AKA the Pregnant Prius :)
No one ever mentions the cost of maintenance for these H2 production systems. It has to be quite high, really.
+JohnSnow
Wery big I would presume, since there is a 700bar preasure tank (amoung other things). I wonder what the replacement cost of that tank is.
Furthere more, I have not seen any studies lately about H leaking. From the information that I have from a couple of years ago, the tank was depleated because leaking in 2 weeks (and that was not because of bad technology used).
So that would cost you allot of money in fuel.
+matko000, BS.
+JohnSnow what maintenance? What do you think needs to be maintained? The fuel cell does not have moving parts. There is a flow control regulating hydrogen to the fuel cell, but beyond that it is an electric car and they all have far lower maintenance requirements than any ICE car.
+Alberto Knox First, you've already stated that there are other moving parts outside of the FC. However, I was discussing H2 generation, not its use. Compressors, pumps, and electrolysers all need routine maintenance. Anything that operates at 10,000 psi is going to be more susceptible to wear.
Even the H2 pumps themselves seem to have high maintenance frequency:
www.greencarreports.com/news/1099082_ca-fuel-cell-car-drivers-says-hydrogen-fuel-unavailable-stations-dont-work
+JohnSnow I sincerely hope FCEV's will be regularly checked for hydrogen leaks.
Found the house by eyeing the sat nav. Pretty impressive place, bigger than i imagined it to be. :)
So, basically, you get a Prius (similar size, similar performance, similar operating behaviours), fuelled by an even more terrifying flammable substance that can only be refuelled at a few places in the whole of the UK. And for, what, 3 or 4 times the cost?
Fool's cell tech. right now is not worth it or maybe never.
Fully accounted for, the energy for electrolyzing hydrogen from water, compressing the hydrogen, converting it to electricity in a fuel cell, etc., would drive a pure electric car about three to four times as far. In other words Hydrogen fuel cell vehicles (FCV) are about 3 to 4 times less energy efficient than a battery electric vehicle (BEV). And most of the hydrogen today comes from natural gas, a fossil fuel. When Toyota commits to using only Hydrogen and hybrids, they are largely committing to a fossil fuel future. Very disappointing.
Said another way, the same windmills used to make Hydrogen could drive an electric car three to four times as far. Using the energy to make Hydrogen would be wasteful and inefficient. Hydrogen is largely a smokescreen for the fossil fuel companies to try to stay relevant and sell their Hydrocarbons. It's not a practical solution because it's objectively very energy inefficient.
Most of the power in an FCV used for propulsion comes from its battery pack because the fuel cell stack alone can't produce enough power to accelerate the car quickly enough to be practical. The fuel cell stack is like a low power generator to slowly recharge the battery pack. So most FCVs are serial hybrid BEVs with a weak generator.
In that sense FCVs are very much like a hybrid Prius which uses gasoline as a generator to recharge its battery pack some of the time. (A Prius can also use its gasoline engine to directly move the car with mechanical power since that's more efficient than using it as a generator. That's part of the reason why the battery packs in most (non-plug-in) hybrids are very small.)
BEVs are vastly more energy efficient than FCVs and therefore clearly and objectively superior.
For comparing greenhouse gas emissions, FCVs using electrolyzed water to get Hydrogen are more than double the emissions of BEVs. Reference: www.transportation.anl.gov/pdfs/TA/273.pdf
+Loanword Eggcorn Humans will pay for 'convenience', - that's why a little bottle of Coke costs the same as a big one . . .
+Loanword Eggcorn One factiod rarely mentioned is that even hydrogen when liquified, [ the hydrogen actually used is a compressed gas and is even lighter ] , has a volume about 10 times that of gasoline per kilo. Gigantic tank or crap miles per fill? Either way, it equals range anxiety! Other missing factoids are fuel tax that Gummints can apply easliy and not being able to use the Chunnel.
+Nick Cummings Let's see if these people are willing to pay the external costs of having a wind turbine "in their back yard". We need 3 times as many remember?
+Ad van der Meer ARRRGH. The infra-sound! The infra-sound! The infra-sound! The infra-sound! WIll be three (3) times nocebo-ish!
+Jon Summers I don't have issues with wind turbines, but the resistance against them is very real. Fact is you need three times as much electricity per mile driven for hydrogen cars compared to electric cars and thus 3 times as many wind turbines.
Well my electric doesn't take 5 minutes to fill up, it takes 5 seconds or less. The lead is on the floor, I pull up next to it, get off the bike, bend down and plug in. That's *IT* And I fill it in my garage. Having to drive to the shops to buy a fill seems like a very retrograde step to me.
Yes I tell people that EV recharge time at home is essentially zero (while watching TV or eating or sleeping). Meanwhile the hydrogen car is stuck at a gas station for 20 minutes
.
thanks
could there be a methane (compressed gas) or methanol (liquid fuel) variant?
is there anyway to utilize the pressure change as the hydrogen moves from the tank to the fuel cell?
Thats kinda cool. I didn't get what Toyota was doing before with the Mirai... but it actually makes a lot of sense.
Especially when there are clean hydrogen sources like electrolysis and wind turbines. Neat.
+jacob jacobson There are not 'clean hydrogen sources like electrolysis and wind turbines' though.
+FFVoyager Exactly! Although possible, large scale production is made from the cheapest electricity available which is most probably coal or other fossil fuels.
FFVoyager ***** Apparently we have a few people who didn't pay attention.There is a company called ITM Power mentioned in the video " 3:24 " *that have installed one in South Yorkshire* www.itm-power.com/project/wind-hydrogen-development-platform
*This exists* and the tech has been here for decades.
Iceland has been creating hydrogen from water at fueling stations for years.
I don't know what tiny ass bubble you guys are living in... but honestly... think for yourself and look into stuff before saying incredible dumb things.
+jacob jacobson I know it is possible. Clean electricity is possible. I live in Quebec Canada, we are 98% Hydro electricity.
At 100% effectiveness, you would need roughly 40 kWh to produce 1 kg of hydrogen, sadly, the process isn't 100% effective and on top of that, you need electricity after that to compress the hydrogen into a tank at the production and while refueling the vehicle.
Electrolysis being ~70% effective and you would need to factor in the electricity needed to compress the gas into tanks the electricity needed to produce 1 kg of hydrogen is more likely 55 kWh or more.
So a Mirai tank capacity is roughly 5 kg.
55 kWh * 5 kg = 275 kWh to refuel a Mirai and do 300 miles.
Any battery electric vehicle could travel more distance using 275 kWh but let's stay focus and check, how much Mirai could we refuel per day with clean energy.
To refuel 1 Mirai per day in the Saudi Arabia desert, you need about 150 solar panels. Solar is nice but when you factor in hydrogen production losses, you need a much higher production. Try to scale this for every location on earth to refuel those FCEV. There is plenty of calculator online.
Same goes for wind, it is awesome but you would need a wind turbine farm at every location only to refuel a few Mirai per day.
Geothermal could allow you to refuel a large amount of Mirai per day but not everyone is sitting on a fault line like Iceland.
Most solutions are great for small scale production of hydrogen but if my goal is to sell hydrogen at a very large scale and at competitive prices, I would make a deal with a country or state and buy all their excess electricity at very low prices, like 2 cents per kWh and I would need to factor in transportation to all the stations. Cheap clean energy is hard to come by, at a few location you might be able to score a deal on hydro power otherwise you end up buying high pollution electricity.
jacob jacobson I can tell the difference between bullshit PR waffle and what we can actually do - and filling a Mirai from 'clean hydrogen sources' is not something that the public can actually do.
In 10 or 15 years it might have changed but I doubt it. Hydrogen powered cars are a dead end that the fossil fuel industry has a vested interest in promoting, I very much doubt the public will have the patience to wait for the fuel delivery systems to ramp up and will buy Teslas (and the like) instead.
Good luck with the wind turbines powered ITM units in urban environments - where most people will want to drive most of the time.
@fullychargedshow
you should also give some more details of the cars regarding its practical aspects like boot space etc i mean give a full review.
+Zaeem Khichi HE never does that. It's all about the technology and the drive, rather than boring crap like how many kids can you fit in the trunk, or MP3s squeezed into the 10x overprice screen
.
no no you didnt got me bro, i was just wondering if cars are getting modern day by day and using battery pack rather than engines then these has to be practical as an old engine powered car. cars are the main way of transport these days and these has to be practical like it needs to be squeeze more people or kids in ur particular case and if kids and people are there it has to have a mp3 player. i hope you got me.
the story is just unbelievable. thnx a lot
If my only choice was this or a gasoline car, I'd pick this. But I honestly can't see any reason to go for this because the #1 thing I love about my Volt is that I fuel up at home. If I have to make regular trips to the gas station for hydrogen, It's barely any better than a gasoline car.
+The 8-Bit Guy I'D choose the 40-50mpg gasoline (or diesel) because they provide almost the same fuel savings, but there's no $3000 battery to replace. (Disclosure: I had to replace both my Honda and Toyota batteries..... wiping out all the fuel savings.)
.
Every day I drive by dozens of petrol stations. Nobody does any "regular trips to the gas station", there's always few on the way to wherever you are going.
I wonder what it would take for you to object to something a car maker does, Robert :)
Could VW invite you to their factory and say this is where we install the defeat device and have you say 'right, amazing technology'. Or would you tell them off :)
You see the hydrogen liars have touted their 5 minute refueling for many years but in reality it takes 20 minutes. And you should ask why they lie about that.
And it's also worth noting that it uses 3 times as much electricity as a battery EV does so you just casually need to increase the size of your solar installation to accommodate that minor detail. And that is, in the event that you could also refuel it at home which you can't. Unless you get a home electrolysis device. Whereas for EVs we call it a plug.
Then there is the cost of the thing. And the absent very expensive infrastructure. And the inherent higher cost of refueling because of that infrastructure and the lower efficiency. Say a minimum factor 4 more expensive than a battery EV. Unless of course it's hydrogen from fossil fuel which it normally is. Which is where the merit becomes particularly precarious to say the least.
And then there is the tanks which hold the pressure of a good way down the Mariana trench. Where even the thickest steel submarines struggle to go. a 7km water column is behind those fiber walls trying to get out. A 7km water column is pumped against at every step they want to transfer the fuel. A 7km water column is handled in every pipe and pressure regulator in the car.
While the docile batteries are approaching 100$/kWh.
The car isn't mass produced either. As deranged as they are, they are still aware enough to know that they wont sell and didn't build a billion dollar factory for them. They are hand built iirc. Because only a handful will ever be sold.
+Dan Frederiksen To be fair Robert does have a rant video about the VW dieselgate affair.
+hiddengrousefarm TO BE FAIR: Other diesel cars from Mercedes, BMW, Chevrolet with NOx neutralization pass emissions inspection with flying colors (super-ultra-low emission as rated by California). AND YES I too want to know why Toyota/others say 5 minutes when it takes 20 minutes. I confronted a liar..... professional marketer at the car show & he just kept repeating "That's what Toyota tells me to say." Eventually someone will sue them for false advertising
.
There is only one reason we have hydrogen cars and that is that the fossil industry wants to continue selling us expensive fuel. Sure you can split water but it's extremely inefficient compared to reforming natural gas which is what the "hydrogen economy" will actually use if it ever becomes mainstream. So the hydrogen car is really just a continuation of the fossil fuel era.
Nice video, and certainly very neat technology. If you say the Mirai is a production car, does that mean that Toyota are selling these cars without making a loss on each one (and I'm of course not talking about recovering development costs)? I ask this because I seem to remember that fuel cells are (or used to be) really expensive to build.
The problem is that it is cheaper to make hydrogen from natural gas. Sure you could use a huge wind turbine connected to an expensive electrolysis system to make hydrogen, but you can't power very many cars for many miles using such a system. You would be better off charging the electric cars with wind power directly.
One of the great things about electric cars is being able to recharge at home for cheap so you never have to go to the gas station. The Leaf is already cheaper to operate than a petrol car and battery prices are still coming down. With the expense of Hydrogen and the lack of filling stations I can't see why anyone would make the switch.
Cool video, thanks Robert. It would be nice to think that they're will be widespread production of hydrogen from renewable energy/splitting water but given the companies that control service stations/refining and their vested interests, not to mention the sheer volume of hydrogen needed for widespread use then I think we're kidding ourselves to think it won't predominantly be produced from and powered by fossil fuel.
I love the idea of hydrogen power but i am one of those people that get worried about the tank of 10,000 psi pressurized hydrogen that could go pop in a crash
The words hydrogen and bomb come to mind. I'm not sure I'd like to have a serious accident or have the car catch fire!
+Jason Jones to be honest the fact that its hydrogen is almost a secondary worry. i wouldnt want to travel with a 10,000 psi tank of creme cheese on a long term basis.
+JellyMan3634 oh dude, you're killing me. Ha!
Hydrogen-powered cars is a bad idea. Only Toyota (and a few minor others) see the value in it. They took a look at the simplicity of an EV wondered how they would make money out of cars that don't need much parts or service.
It's more like they found an efficient and clean way to produce the electricity to power an EV on board the vehicle. It's just a shame that hydrogen being a gas makes it much more difficult to deal with compared to liquids like Petrol or Diesel.
It's really not that efficient - it's pretty bad, actually.
While the technology behind this car is very impressive, I can't get over the fact that this is one of the most revolting cars to look at in the past 10 years. Its only rival to that claim might be the newly revealed Prius, which somehow manages to be slightly worse. If Toyota wants to people to get behind their hybrid and hydrogen cars, they'll need to completely rethink their designs.
Finally, someone mentions it. This car is FUGLY!
I do like the technology of hydrogen fuel cells. I just think it's an additional step that's kinda superfluous. You take perfectly good electricity, and use it to make hydrogen, which is stored in a tank then pumped into another tank which is then used to make electricity and /that/ is used to drive the motor.
Or you can take that electricity, put it in a battery, then take it back out again to drive the motor.
Can't argue against the refuelling time though haha
It's for people who comment about charging the battery using electricity.toyota had advanced in this technology to eliminate the use of fossil fuels and instead on alternative energy resources.so hydrogen is the effective energy to be found and burnt in order to produce electricity on the go (while the car is driven).the range can be extended in future vehicles as they started off with the Prius hybrid,phev,leaf etc.please try to appreciate the effort and risk what Toyota has taken rather than just sit somewhere and just criticise others for their hard work.
I'm running a Yaris hybrid, [my second] and have test driven both the Auris and the Prius. There is NO discernible delay when you press the accelerator, you must be imagining things. Go and see your GP mate!
If you compare the delay to EV's complete lack of it, you'll know the difference.
+wynos0 After I wrote that, I stomped out and tested my own hybrid car for this so called 'delay'. There is no delay at all, not a smidgen, not an iota, not a quark, at least not to the 72 year-old brain I'm stuck with till medical science comes up with a new one with a windmill on top c/o Apple, [the i-am?]. In fact, my Yaris will often move off without the engine running, [ in warm weather it will happily go a kilometer up my lane with the ic engine off ] and it springs into action at the hint of a pedal at speed. In that circumstance, with the ic off, it's an ev, is it not? In fact, the electric motors, [ yes there are two ], ALWAYS provide at least part of the traction in Toyota's hybrid transmission because of the way the cv system works. It's always 'engaged' when in drive and it creeps like a conventional automatic, [ which I do not like, after I ran into the kiosk at my gas station after spotting a 5 euro note on the pavement and then opened my door to snaffle it and took me foot off the brake. DOH!.......]. Where was I? Oooh yes, worse was to come - I could not discern any delay worth a flea's fart in my 14 year old Opel diesel either, except for the usual delightful kick in the pants when the turbo comes in! Quite frankly, this is all a load of bollocks as far as a critique of cars go!
This car will literally blow your mind. Carboom!
Once the infrastructure is there, hydrogen will prevail
+Chandler Shelnut To be honest, that's unlikely. Other than a handful of car builders and government grants, there is next to no commercial interest in development full cell stacks. However huge numbers of manufacturers have na interest in improving battery technologies due to the huge number of devices using them. Anyone who develops a cheaper, lighter, more energy dense battery has a massive market in everything from phones to cars to utilities to satellites. Fuel cells are incredibly niche and niche products just don't attract the same critical mass of research, and tend to evolve very slowly.
The car was incredibly quiet, looks like it gave a smooth ride and wasn't a futuristic extreme design. It is $66,000 and you only have one fueling station currently. So why wouldn't anyone who has that kind of money not buy a Tesla S 70D for a little more money? You get a car that holds more people, things (2 trunks) has great range and you can "re-energize" at home if you have a solar panel, or use the FREE supercharger network that is currently all over the UK, Europe, the USA and a few cities in Canada today? Free, fast, safer ( did you see all that metal in the front that will damage you in a front collision) and available today. Or you can wait, be limited in range and have to pay the company for expensive maintenance and fuel after you purchase it. Sounds wonderful.
As a huge hydrogen sceptic you had me thinking "hmm, not too bad" until the end.
Same price and range as a Tesla 85D for a smaller car with much less power.
i think this is case of thinking way ahead of your time, this is so clearly the future of transportation but it just feels way to soon props to Toyota for taking the risk
+GemMine NO the future of transport is charging your car directly from the solar roof on your house (or power company), not wasting precious time driving to a gas station to buy from the Exxon-Shell-BP monopoly
.
Can this be plugged in, or is the battery only there to store electicity produced from regen and from the fuel cell?
+Mark Atkin Yes, the battery is there only to level out the fluctuations in power consumption/regeneration that the fuel cell cannot handle. And it is so small (1.6kWh) that allowing it to be plugged in would make little sense.
Why go from wind turbine to electricity to hydrogen and back to electricity is it not easier just to charge the battery direct from the wind turbine?
So this car could actually re generate or refill its hydrogen tanks whilst in motion ie utilising the wind resistance against the vehicle as it drives ?.
What is the alternative to get rid of the charging times? Exchangable battery systems?
+Li Buddha ON the road charging is downto 20 minutes (Tesla supercharger). At home charging is Zero perceived time (while you eat dinner or sleep)
.
Is the Mirai a plugin for the electricity?
Rather see this care as pure electric, fully agree with oisiaa, better looking than a prius though !
Nice review, as always. One thing you forgot to mention is, what is the cost of driving on H2. How many EUR/100km?
+Andrej Potokar We have a hydrogen fuel contract with Toyota. The cost per kg of Hydrogen is £10, the car has 5kg tank.
+ITM Power Thank you for your reply!
That's quite expensive, considering the car consumes about 1kg of H2/100km. That means that driving the H2 car costs 10 UK Pounds/100km :(
It costs me 1.5 EUR/100km driving my EV.
"Someone coming down the way... and I just missed him..." ha ha ha ha ha.. Its like you were aiming for him or something.
Well, this turned out exactly like expected.
Feels a lot like they got someone from the oil industry to come up with the way we power cars in the future. Only he forgot to miss himself out with the refining process. I'm going EV.
coupling a fuel cell and a battery system in the same car ...that will be the revolution and it would still take less space that fuel engine and transmission in the car
I Have been fascinated with fuel cells since the late Nineties when I had the opportunity to work with a company in SoCal developing solid oxide fuel cells, I am guessing that that car has a PEM cell in it.
My question is what is its output and what is the capacity of the battery, as a hybrid power train fan, as you are we should be hearing this stuff from you or why would I be watching your first drive in the new Toyota fuel cell hybrid here on YT?
*_Can't wait till alternate fuels become the norm for cars around 2022_*
the location is not so secret when, you know, you display it on a big ass satnav!
2 million dollars per filling station, will make it hard to justify the investment. Prices per gallon equivalent could be 10 dollars per gallon.Only three filling stations in the country is a great monopoly.
Nice but I can't see anything other than a handful of sales in the UK.
I saw one of these driving in to this extremely secluded area, hmmm could it have been where you were? probably not.
After seeing the oil leaking from pipelines across Africa and Asia, and seeing the sheer scale of untouched land on the UK that will be destroyed by fraking I just can't get behind hydrogen yet.
Until we _know_ that 80% of the hydrogen mix is from plain water then I'll stick to BEVs.
Just waiting for the first accident in one of these. Kaboom! Don't even bother sending the ambulance, just send in the clean up crew to pick up the chunks. 10000 PSI?! No thanks!
Jose D Well accidents have happened in California & there wasn't any mass destruction like you're predicting...In your honest opinion,do you think TOYOTA,one of the most hated auto manufacturers out there would take a chance on making a "Ford Pinto" type of vehicle,knowing the consequences?...
So you're saying that this vehicle was NEVER tested by independent bodies to see whether or not it would go "kaboom" in an accident?
Here you go btw...www.google.ca/amp/www.autoblog.com/amp/2015/09/24/first-toyota-mirai-hydrogen-fuel-cell-crash-in-us-uneventful/
LOL a 15mph side swipe? Let see how it does in a full collision before you can declare hydrogen "safe". Oh wait, it'll never happen because the Toyota Mirai is as rare as Astatine which is similar in wording to anyone pushing Hydrogen, asinine.
So a wind turbine to generate electricity, which is used to separate oxygen and hydrogen from water, just to put it back together. Why not just use the electricity generated by the turbine for a battery in a car? So much extra work, for less efficiency.
AND: so a solar roof to generate electricity, which is used to separate oxygen and hydrogen from water, just to put it back together.
Why not just use the electricity generated by the solar for a battery in a car? IT'S MORE EFFICIENT
.
+electrictroy2010 hell of a lot more efficient
+iMiguelAOG I think the argument he gave here is that while it's less efficient, charging it into your vehicle would take a fraction of the time, closer to that of gasoline refueling. I don't like the sound of a 10,000 psi tank filled with hydrogen however.
+aaron4820 Yeah it's a great concept but going a step backwards as we're back to a gas in a tank that could ignite. Yeah there's no fuel burning, and batteries can exlode too, but they would really have to have a large puncture and you could easily escape the car if that happened as opposed to all that pressure being released at once
MS90D goes 294 miles...
Is this the way we can have a green sprinter size van. So you can do Manchester to Cornwall do a days work and drive home carrying two tons?
Thanks RobertInteresting but can we now have a program on ITM Power to explain more about their system.Not just the brochure stuff, some "behind the scenes" information to allow us to form our own opinions.Oh and a check to see if they're part owned be the nasty oil companies, please.
Amazing to read the negative comments on Fuel Cell technology here. Five years ago a working fuel cell car cost millions and now it's about $100k. What will it be in another five? For all you Li Cobalt battery lovers, remember fuel cells can be used in trucks, trains and ships which potentially ends the oil industry monopoly. Can't see an EV truck any time soon.
+Robin Tankard EVEN if fuel cells cost Zero they still don't make sense because they use twice as much energy as an EV (due to conversion losses from electric-to-hydrogen and back to electric)
.
Also the oil industry is who supplies the hydrogen in California stations, so the monopoly does not end. It continues
.
This hydrogen car is comfortable to ride and make fresh air and Good economy
how much coste???? how much range whit battery???? how much range whit a full tank of hydrogen?
Secrets out! Denham in Bucks :)
Hi Robert.Why don't the power stations Make hydrogen overnight when they can't store surplus electricity?
nice car, fuellled by water and wind
I'd love to drive an electric car sooner than later but I am just too lazy and spontaneous to plan my journeys around the location of charging stations. Do I have to wait until someone makes these massive investments into a hydrogen fuel infrastructure or is there any alternative like exchangeable battery systems, for instance. I just wonder why companies like Better Place went bust because theoretically they were on a good move to reduce the process friction caused by charging your battery for more than half an hour at least. What do you think? Would removing the charging times make EVs more popular?
+Li Buddha ON the road superchargers are only 20 minutes, and at home perceived times are zero (while you sleep)
.
+electrictroy2010 what if you could just elminate charging times completely? That would be like filling a petrol tank. Wouldn't that be great?
Fuel cells have been the next big thing since I was a kid in the late fifties. Nineteen fifties that is.
Bonjour from Québec
What could be the cost of reflueling with hydrogen versus electricity. The big oil of course will get in the game and will still want to control the cost. At least you can produce your electricity with solar and stay independant from the big oil. Producing hydrogen is to high tech for the common person.
I think you misspoke at 2:20. You said sometimes it runs on hydrogen and sometimes it runs by mixing oxygen with hydrogen in the fuel cell. @fullychargedshow
The fuel tank is always FULL,it's just the pressure that matters.
What does it cost at the pump to fill with hydrogen?
Essentially, both hydrogen hybrids and full electric cars are supposed to drive on electricity derived from above-ground resources. Therefore, we should look at the concept that uses that electricity as efficiently as possible. This is where the hydrogen car falls short by about 300% to the battery-powered car.
Okay, that's all well and good, I like that it's environmentally friendly and all that; but if you have a canister of hydrogen gas compressed to 10000 psi in the car, what exactly happens in a serious car crash? Would the hydrogen not ignite and cause a large explosion?
What different between mirai with car electric?
At 2:02 it's stated that sometimes the car is running on hydrogen alone, and sometimes on electricity. I think you misspoke there.
+markweatherill NO he did not. I have a hydrogen car and just as a BMW i3 hybrid can alternate between pure EV mode or pure gasoline mode....... the Mirai can alternate between EV mode, or hydrogen mode, or both. It all depends on power demand, if the fuel cell is running (sometimes it's off), if the battery is over 60% (pure EV), or below 20% (pure hydrogen mode), and so forth
.
+electrictroy2010 ...YES he did. It's quite clear. My point is simply that the car does not run on hydrogen 'alone' at any time; it always runs on electricity generated by burning hydrogen.
I thought all you had to do is put water into it!?
I remember they had commercials all over RUclips showing them fill up at some lake
LOL. Professional liars.... I mean marketers are not a source for tech info. They don't even know how to pronounce Hyundai correctly (the Korean way)
.
I love Toyota. But they made a high quality electric car that you cannot charge at home. Doesn't make sense. Toyo should have led the way on EVs. Disappointed in TMC now.
+Bob Owen old dogs don't get new tricks...those are left for the new ones.
With a 10,000 lb. psi tank, you would hope to never have an accident. You might survive the accident and be killed by the tank rupturing. fuel tank aging and getting brittle, could be dangerous.
My main concern with hydrogen power is that an awful lot of the stuff is produced by cracking natural gas, which essentially makes it no cleaner than running an LNG/LPG vehicle. Even if clean hydrogen were to be embraced, it would essentially be building the infrastructure of BEVs (clean electricity sources) then adding a layer of complexity and energy loss in the compression/separation plant. I suspect also by the time clean hydrogen and lighter fuel cells are developed, battery technology will already have overtaken them in efficiency and power/weight ratios. If I had £60k to drop on a car, it'd be a Tesla, not a Mirai.
Not interested in HFC cars, but thanks for posting.
I'm not betting on H like many of you. Now if in the end, I'm wrong and it's the way to go, we'll be better off. The infrastructure cost is too high. We basically have to replace the current petroleum infrastructure with a H infrastructure. When there are more electric and/or fuel cell cars on the road, there will be more and more places to recharge/refill.
"There's not a lot of places you can refuel this car, which is very like the early days of electric cars" It's like the early days of petrol cars too, drivers had to buy barrels of oil from the pharmacy.
+David Willanski Yeah, but charging stations don't cost millions to build. A Tesla Supercharger station only costs a few hundred thousand, compared to the $1-3 million a hydrogen station costs to build.
Then there's the equipment needed to compress the hydrogen and fill vehicles with, which will also need regular maintenance due to this thing called "hydrogen embrittlement". I can't imagine it's cheap to replace that equipment.
Another issue is they can only service a few dozen cars a day at best, since the tank has to get re-pressurized after every fill-up. So the third guy in line will also likely have an hour wait or so to fill up his hydrogen, assuming the machine isn't broken. Most gas stations can service a few dozen cars an hour.
Indeed. My point was more to the naysayers who say it won't work because of lack of infrastructure - that didn't stop 100 years of petrol powered vehicle deployment and development. I bet in 100 years, everyone will be driving electric or hydrogen cars, and petrol cars will be considered "historical interest only".
+David Willanski But back then EVs were the only competition for ICE, and electricity cost around 6x more than petrol.
FCEVs have to not only compete with ICE, but also BEVs. Both of which are cheaper to purchase, and have lower operating costs. Currently, the Mirai is being sold for what the industry believes is the cost of the FC by itself...and likely the Mirai actually costs Toyota over $100k to build. What FCEVs do have is longer range between re-fueling (currently negated by the lack of infrastructure) and faster refueling times (though not as fast as manufacturers' quote, because of extenuating circumstances).
Not only is the infrastructure non existent for H2, and the costs high...private industry is not the one funding the stations. Currently, the majority of stations in the US and elsewhere are paid for with tax payer funding. On top of that, none of them are actually making money selling H2. Hydrogen, where it can actually be purchased, is currently $14/kg, and the cost of the fuel is not likely to go down in the near-term. Conversely, gasoline is under $2/gallon, and electricity is cheaper still.
For H2 to succeed, it is going to take billions of dollars of public funds, and even then there is no guarantee that you could privatize the infrastructure. Especially if you incorporate any amount of battery range into the FCEVs...as that would lower the need for H2, and therefore cause sporadic demand.
+David Willanski Also, in the early days of electric cars (the modern generation, that is - 1990s onwards) there were plenty of places to charge it - anywhere there was a power point.
No mention of kg hydrogen cost or how much that hydrogen machine was in London? or reliability of it either? Moving on... I'll stick with my Beverly!
Great video as usual Mr Llewellyn. Have to say though, I'm not sold on hydrogen. Not at all. Seems like the petroleum industry making sure they've still got a revenue stream in the future.
The extreme pressure in the fuel tank, and that also required to refuel scares me. I mean a few hundred PSI of air is dangerous, let alone any gas at ten thousand PSI.
I wonder if hydrogen vehicles are allowed in closed parking lots, since allot of closed parking lots today prohibit CNG (LPG) vehicles from entering those parking lots.
Because from what I see the dangers are the same with both vehicles, but more problematic with hydrogen, since it is oderless, more explosive and it leaks more easily.
Its nearly 2021 and we still don't have enough hydrogen plug in hybrid and we dobt have enough hydrogen refuelling stations
I wonder if we will see something like a hydrogen range extender any time soon? Seems to me it would work better as one because you have the normal electric then range on demand without having to have the filth of an ICE. I know this isn't completely clean but it's a damn sight better than burning fossil fuels at the point of use.
I've tried to do a back-of-an-envelope computation to see how a dream of putting huge wind turbines on service stations (4:04) would work out. While not completely impossible, it does not seem to make much sense economically.
I estimate the energy content of the Mirai H2 tank to be around 130kWh, which I think would require at least 160kWh to generate (probably too optimistic). That means an average of 6 cars per hour would require an average power production of 1MW (both figures would have large variations over time). That is an industrial size wind turbine, that would cost well over a million dollars (or pounds), probably more than the service station itself.
And there is no point in making such an investment unless you are in a very windy place, which is probably not where your service station happens to be. So my conclusion is it would be better to just get electricity off the gird at low-demand hours, and build a huge wind farm in a windy place.
Interesting, it seems Toyota is serious about Hydrogen fuel cell technology.
Looks like a concept car from 1980.
Word is that California's H2 stations aren't performing well - most can only handle a couple cars per hour or cannot consistently deliver a full tank