A couple points to note, I believe this station was actually a station where trucks bring the hydrogen to it - it is just created in a greener way. Also, the Mirai has a 5 kg tank so we weren’t completely dead although the gauge cluster showed that we were at a minimal level
Kyle how is this green? As I understand it most hydrogen comes from methane gas. And the conversion process shows it's even less efficient from a well-wheels energy efficiency perspective. Than driving a gas or diesel car is today. Plus of course still uses rare earths for the catalysts, still uses big batteries and electric motors etc. 🤔
@@acatic80 I am very aware after 4 years of research on modern evs about what they are and are not. Unless you have something worth actually reading? Don't respond to someone who didn't engage you. 👍🏻
Greener than what? That hydrogen delivery truck probably came from one of the five oil refineries in the LA area or if that is "making" reformed natural gas on site, it is emitting CO2 from that elevated pipe or other vent. In either case that is not "green" hydrogen, as neither method is using electrolysis from a green source of surplus electricity. I do thank you for pointing out the time and trouble needed to get to these infrequently operational stations. HFC long haul trucks and busses maybe, but we average drivers should not be subsidizing the developments needed for that niche market at those exorbitant prices per kg. Any way, my Tesla Model 3 LR can get from 20 to 80% in the much rarer instance of a road trip like yours and have the same number of potential miles in the time I took to view this video at a Supercharger:) Oh and the Mirai is actually heavier than my car.
@@4literv6 It is not green. However as you noted produced from natural gas(methane) which the US has a large supply. East coast is just brimming full of natural gas which we should also use to produce electricity.
Hydrogen was $13.14/KG when filmed. Now it's $36.95/KG x 5.65 KG=$208.77 for a fillup to go 260 miles or 80 cents per mile. Ridiculous. And in Missouri, the only hydrogen filling station makes you get a container containig 100kg at H35 or 5000psi at a minimum.
Exponential technological improvement will deal with this compared with the 20 minute highway chargers fill up. Not to mention the millions of tons of copper wiring - equal to the total copper mined since the beginning of the Bronze Age.
There is an H2 station near me at a Shell station, but comments on Google Maps say it has been broken for over a year and attendants say no plans to fix it. Shell also dropped a plan funded by California to install more stations, so seems like Mirais will be orphans soon. Fueling costs ~4x an efficient gasoline sedan.
As I'm sure millions have said already, the key issue with hydrogen is we have to make it. And we make it from carbon sources, using a staggering amount of power. (compressing it, pumping it, carrying it, etc., etc.) If you want to be "green", H2 absolutely is not the path. Alcohol, bio-diesel, and solar, wind, geothermal, hydro, etc. are all better ways to be "green". Making H2 from "excess electricity" is also not a very good means of storage. (maybe better than aluminium-air batteries... smelting Al is a very energy intense process.) But I will concede, a liquid (or compressed gas) is way faster to "recharge" than any battery ever will be.
Even EVs are a scam and the furthest thing away from being green, in an even more extreme fashion than hydrogen vehicles. What they fail to tell you is that one excavator burns thousands of gallons of diesel in a 12 hour shift in order to mine the lithium, cobalt and nickel thats needed to create a single battery pack. EVs use many battery packs in one vehicle. Mind you I have nothing against EVs, but marketing it as a green alternative to gas vehicles is just downright deceptive.
Same you to are supporting expensive fossil fuel, sabotaging green energy like the curruption people in the past critics. Disregarding green energy, switch to distructive pollution fossil oil gas mining big profit.
It won't let you start filling unless it's properly attached, also the reason why it had him take it out and try again is because he kept putting it in and taking it out.
You could see the greenish yellow ring appear at the base of the coupler when he finally figured out how to attach it, it's similar to your typical air hose connection, pull back the locking collar slightly before meeting male to female connections and it'll clip right on(I'm sure many of us watching were either yelling at our phones or mumbling it under our breaths when he couldn't figure it out lol)
I was in line to get gas in Anaheim, and noticed a long line of cars waiting for one pump. I asked a guy what was happening and he told me they were all waiting to fill up with hydrogen. We talked through the cost, which when he started his lease was less that gas, but now a month ago, it was more expensive then gas. He loved the actual car, but said that owning a hydrogen car was more like being owned by a hydrogen car. There were only two places for fuel in the area, the other being a Toyota in Orange. And they were often down. He also told me that if you wanted to say drive to Las Vegas, which many Southern Californian's do, you're out of luck, no hydrogen stations in Las Vegas or along the route. In that case you notify the company, and they rent a car for you for the trip, which you were allowed to do several times a year. Also, when he got the car, they supplied him with a $15,000 dollar fuel card, which after over two years of driving he had barely dented, so at the moment the car was cheap to operate, but once the card ran out, he figured it would be more expensive then a similar ICE powered car of the same size and cost. I thought it was fascinating, but very limiting. I mean, if you think an EV is limiting, hydrogen's another ballpark. He did say that there were fleets of cars used by delivery services that loved it, but they had access to fuel, and all their trips were local. The incentive when he got the car was a) Federal Rebates, b) CA Rebates, c) So. California Rebates, d) Manufacturer Rebates, and finally e) that $15k fuel card. So he got a $40K car for around $22k, plus no fuel costs. So, he was pleased, for now. "Would he buy one again" I asked, and he said, "Not sure. I do think about that question though."
interesting. I feel like H2 is more for vehicles that need a LOT of energy, more energy than you could easily get from batteries, such as aircraft, ships, trains, LONG distance trucks (over 250 miles), etc. Because those vehicles operate from certain places, such as airports for aircraft, marine ports for ships (usually deep water ports), etc. For small cars the size of the Mirai, I feel like battery is better, since we people already have electric going into their house/apartment/condo, and at worst it is a question of having an L2 charger installed. 🙂
Although, the other other reason to make green hydrogen is LARGE SCALE energy storage. You can carve out a storage cavern underground, and when you are generating excess green power, you split water and pump H2 underground. It should last a long time down there. Then when it's time to get it back, you let the H2 out and either combust it (with a flame) or run it through a high power fuel cell. 🙂
@@Henning_Rech "H2 is good for airplanes, maybe ships, and steel production. For cars it is just a waste of energy." Yes, this is what I said, I agree with this statement.
A 2 year old Mirai with 15k miles for $19k is overpriced by $3700 according to car gurus. Even with the incredible subsidies, they are basically worthless once they drive off the lot. No way this makes sense for any consumer. Agree with all the sentiments on this thread.
I missed the final cost.... and another 260 miles. Believe I'll stick with my 98 civic hatch. I drove right at ll00 miles to see my brother in New Mexico, and it cost me a whopping $62- a few cents, That was running 75/80 with a/c. Had a 96 that got 42 mpg, at 65/75 with a/c. That was at least 90+% interstate driving.
If you already have a decent ride and you don't mind keeping it vs a newer model, it literally doesn't matter. Unless it's a piece of junk that needs repair every 2 months, using your older vehicle is always better than the production required to build a new EV or hydrogen car.
@@sws212 was nationally certified mechanic, but I also have an A&P license. Worked everything from a 2stroke weed easter to a Boeing 747, The Ole Honda will be cruising for some time. I do hope you do not have a serious accident. Ask your dealer how they have protected the hydrogen bomb you are carrying around as fuel. Car batteries give off hydrogen gas, have you seen one explode! I hope you don't.
@@pdufusc ......I've seen batteries blow. It wasn't like a stick of dynamite. I'm excited for the Hydrogen vehicles as I don't believe electric cars are the way. Electric is exciting, but not for the scale they want. BTW, I've seen gas cars explode (Pinto) so I would trust it as we can't be worried by what if.....
I remember getting I believe it was 62 miles a gallon in a late 90s Civic traveling cross country from Cali to Chicago. The interstate performance and downhill driving helped a lot! I think the inevitable EV backlash will drive a new era of fuel and environmental performance in ICE vehicles. PHEV are already have far surpassed the 100mpg-e mark, and 150mpg will be standard in a few years.
I live in NM and unfortunately you see 20-30 SUVs/Pick-ups for every Honda Civic. It could make a difference that will add up over time in the long run if those 20-30 SUVs/Pick-ups also were BEV, PHEV, or had hybrid powertrains. People will switch to hydrogen in a minute if it only cost $5-$10 to fill up each time for +300 mile range.
Really enjoyed this look into the new Mirai. And don't worry about the newbie aspects of the refilling, we're all newbies at some point and this is a great overview. It's also refreshing to hear someone who's experienced with plug in electric, but is also open minded about hydrogen fuel cell vehicles like this one. Also like the sleek futuristic interior. Have to say too, plug in electric are a stepping stone to hydrogen or some other advanced technology. Battery EV's have so many batteries which are often mined in appalling conditions, and those materials are finite. Then there's the end of life recycling of all those batteries. When an hydrogen filling station is running on renewables and doesn't need tanker trucks to bring in hydrogen, it's wonderful. Those are the ones that need to be invested in. Less than five minutes to fill the tank and getting a wicked range is WAY better than waiting over half hour for crappy batteries to charge. I will never do that, it's retarded 🥴👉
So, at $60 to fill up divided by a 260 mile range, it seems to cost about $0.23/ mile to drive. An economical car that gets 35 MPG and assuming $5.00/ gallon will cost about $0.14/ mile to drive.
Gasoline in d still the best option, but we have a administration that has been pushing for batteries. Follow the investments in mining lithium, creating battery cars and charging stations, and of course totally ignore over worked to the max electric grid. If you're going to demand a alternative to gasoline, then hydrogen bests batteries by MILES (pun intended). Especially with the newest technology and solid storing hydrogen at half the weight of batteries
The US is 30x more dopey than we are then. This is the dumbest idea that just passes away energy to try make a market for the fossil fuel companies who want to greenwash their gas/coal via making hydrogen from it.
Hello. I test hydrogen fuel quality for the State of California. My colleagues and I routinely visit all hydrogen stations in California and obtain samples. This is a liquid hydrogen station. This allows for much more hydrogen to be stored on site. The older gaseous stations only have a capacity around 100 kg. The liquid stations have a capacity around 1000 kg. The hydrogen is truck delivered and stored in a liquid state on site. The station then boils off the liquid into a gas and maintains the gaseous hydrogen at fill pressure. The vent is actually not too loud since the vent has such a wide bore. I'm guessing this is the Baldwin Park station. We haven't tested it yet, but it will be on our docket soon!
@@tmiller64 You're welcome! Thank you for highlighting the technology. From my many conversations, most people I meet don't even know that fuel cell vehicles exist or what they even are. Feel free to ask me any other questions.
@@andrewadkins727 do you know why some of the stations run out very frequently? Are they not operated as other gas stations? Do you know why the development plan for hydrogen gas is stalled? It seems that they are way behind everywhere installing those stations. Would have loved to get a fuel cell car but live in the country and theres no station around😔
I think, hydrogen can be a good option for construction equipment. JCB is developing Hydrogen diggers after they realized electric diggers wont even last 1 hour of work.
That’s not true. Diggers aren’t moving very far like a car does, so the workload is actually less. Remember a car is moving 5000 lbs 250 miles. That’s a huge workload as compared to digging 200,000 lbs over 100 feet.
Another example of just how poor EVs work in the real world. They’ll never replace ICE vehicles in the near future. Unless they just want people to not go to work. Diggers still do the same amount of work digging as cars just going down the road
@@BioniqBob Ok, so you are selfish like most people. No problem. Now that we've solved your own personal financial savings - how about the rest of the people soaking up electricity off the grid to charge their cars, forklifts, trucks, etc. to save money on gas? They already have planned brownouts in the 'we don't give a crap about you' areas of California to offset the problem. It is growing, and for every cola power plant they shutdown and don't replace, the problem gets worse. Everyone I know, including me, are all for green energy - but we can't just magic it into existence. We have to get it in place and 100% replacement before we shut down the prior source, and we actually need to be adding on top of it for all these electric vehicles that will be replacing ICE over the next decades. Any suggestions for the people crying about Solar? The war for batteries that there aren't enough of to supply even the USA alone for power consumption right now? I think people need to lighten up about nuclear fission and fusion if we're going to get off of fossil fuels. We're never going to get away from oil and gas for some things anyway for many more decades. There is oil in everything from solar panels to the composites in your EVs, your house, your office, almost everything synthetically produced has some amount of oil in it.
FYI: All gas heat up when is compressed in a fixed volume not just hydrogen. Is not the expansion of gas that cause it to heat up, but compression. H2 is at a low pressure in the tank. As you add more H2 into the tank, work is put into the tank. It takes a lot of energy to compress gas. That is work. When you put compressed air into a tank, you are putting that work into the tank. If the tank has a piston moving on the other end, then the tank is doing work. Since the tank is rigid, is taking in energy, but not putting out energy. That energy it takes in becomes heat. One way to counter that is to pump in cold H2 to counter the heat.
All this work takes energy. Carnot (intrinsic) limits the amount of energy that can be recovered. If there is no mechanism for recovery - the amount recovered is zero.
Oh - yeah. Right - Let's just say stuff without checking it out. This is from a paper by Siemens Energy USA - but what would they know : Hydrogen has a unique characteristic that can present a challenge for safe compression. Ordinarily, when gas expands from higher pressure to a lower pressure, at normal temperatures, it cools down. Hydrogen, on the other hand, heats up when expanded at a temperature above its ‘inversion point’ of -112˚F (-80˚C). This characteristic is known as the ‘Reverse Joule-Thomson effect’
I purchased a second generation Mirai back in 2021 (like his, but mine is black in color), gorgeous car, but getting hydrogen could be a challenge at times, not to mention the price of hydrogen went up more than a 100% since 2021 (from $13.05 kg to $26.75 a kg). True Zero really jacked up the price as it appears they’re a majority hydrogen supplier in the market, no market competition, so who knows, they might raise the price up again next month. I love the zero omission that hydrogen engine produced, but against the idea of market monopoly by True Zero, sadly, I will have to let go of this beautiful vehicle next week. Thanks to the Toyota dealer where I bought this vehicle from as my salesman says that the dealer will buy it back from me.
You do realize your price means nothing to someone used to gasoline a their fuel. In addition, gasoline prices vary greatly by location and fluctuate throughout the year.
The overwhelming problem with hydrogen vehicles is it’s a continuation of the complexity of the gasoline car. And the pressurizing adds even more complexity. The simplicity of the ev system is only going to get better and cheaper.
I like the idea of this technology, But I live in Europe, and fuel is very expensive. But I also own a 6-year-old Diesel Ford Focus that burns so clean that the UK does not tax it. And I get about 55 MPG. Oh, BTW, it is no dog on the road, Higher to[p end that my Mustang had. I understand Diesel Fuel is cleaner over here, but why cant we do that in the States also? I still remember being happy with 7-8 MPG and $0.19 a gallon. I just do not believe we have to be so hard on ourselves. we can make much cleaner, more efficient engines if we really want to. but where are the Taxes on that? IMO
@@clintatk The Marai is not an ICE vehicle. It's an electric motor vehicle. The hydrogen fuel cell powers the electric motor. But you are correct that it won't work for passenger but probably for construction, heavy work, etc. It's a lab test in reality and it's also necessary with states/feds mandates for zero emissions.
@@tracys2354 To be completely accurate the Mirai is a hydrogen-electric hybrid. It may remove the complexity of an ICE vehicle but replaces it with the complexity of said hybrid.
As a college student training to be an automotive technician 45 years ago in 1977, my professor said he could envision hydrogen becoming the dominant fuel source for the transportation industry. I have watched with great interest the development of hydrogen technology ever since to see how it would all play out. Like the EV industry, large-scale public adoption will in part depend on having an infrastructure that supports the convenience the public has come to demand with fuel stations located nearby wherever you are. As I see in this video, the story is still evolving. Thank you for the update!
...I studied it extensively back then, did my thesis on hydrogen economy, it will come as there are so many benefits. The tipping point is using renewable energy ideas to generate the hydrogen through electrolysis, then use it for many applications like transportation, but better for when the renewables are off-line. The only issue keeping this from happening is cheap oil, but oil and gas will be depleted and this form will dominate - I guess another 30-50 years transition. (and interesting downside is the over manufacture of oxygen, affecting the environment adversly - so the oxygen will have to also be used as the oxidizer in combustion and not air) will be a cool wild transition ride....
I’ve watched True Zero trucks come in to fill up the stations before as a Mirai owner myself (Aliso Viejo and San Juan Capistrano are my two go-to stations) - they actually truck it in not as compressed cylinders but as a cryogenic liquid. As for that vent, yes that is what it’s for - the reason why it’s that high up is to take advantage of the fact that hydrogen is lighter than air. When excess gas is let out of that vent, it escapes the atmosphere and just floats off into space.
Plot twist, Hydrogen is similar to carbon monoxide in that it acts as an indirect greenhouse gas through its effect on hydroxyl (OH) radicals. By reducing the levels of OH in the atmosphere, hydrogen increases the lifetime of some direct greenhouse gases, such as methane. So hopefully not much escapes..
@@marcdeboer1280 free hydrogen escapes quite readily from Earth's atmosphere. That's why most atmospheric hydrogen left at this time is bound chemically (water vapour, etc). It's too bad they can't have a pilot light or something to flare off that gas, as this will become a larger problem if this tech ever became dominant.
When there's a line waiting to fill up, if you're the 3rd car, you will have to wait while the nozzle warms up. I wouldn't be surprised if that took at least 15 minutes.
The fuel up time is actually better than I thought it would be. Your average gas pump does about 7 to 9 gallons a minute. So, you're looking at 2 to 3 minutes to fill up a standard car.
Building a hydrogen station costs "$1.9 million in capital (median capital cost of $1.9 million)". Compare that to EV charging stations: "Electric vehicle charging stations can come in Level 1, Level 2, and DC fast charging types. The cost of an electric vehicle charging station can range from $300 to $100,000" Hydrogen fuel is not the future and generating it requires a lot of energy. This is not environmentally friendly at all. "Today, about 95% of all hydrogen is produced from steam reforming of natural gas. Learn more about: Natural gas reforming. Coal gasification."
I used to drive a CNG van at work. I remember a couple of years ago when waiting at the pump. It was about -20° F and the van in front of me was filling up when all of a sudden the tank ruptured. Fortunately, no one was injured.
@@ellau5850 Yep, I won't be sacrificing anything. I now drive a gasoline vehicle for work. My personal vehicle is also gasoline powered. The oly way to save the planet is to eliminate the WEF.
why pressurize it? Ovshinsky developed a tank that ran his Prius hybrid for years. Solid hydride absorbs the H2 into a normal gas tank. Look uo Stanford Ovshinsky the self taught engineer with 300+ patents....
You need to fillup in the same spot if someone just filled up in front of you. I believe that station needs to repressurise and will make you wait 15min before you can get 4.5 min fill again.
0:08 Hear are the two big questions every one should be asking about Hydrogen, being a viable fuel for the future, and they are How much energy in total did the processes take to 1. disassociate the hydrogen from water ? 2.Compress the disassociated Hydrgen into a suitable vessel for transport ? I'm pretty sure its more energy than you can recover from burning it, or converting it directly back to electricity even using the most eficient fuel cell technology available. Remember, Energy is neither created nor destroyed. It's simply converted from one form to another, also there are conversion efficiencies that are not ideal through the processes and because of this there will be losses in the form of heat along the way so either solar, wind or nuclear electrical energy would be required for truly green Hydrogen.
Thinking back to the early conversations around EVs, I'm looking forward to the coming advances in hydrogen. The current state of the tech seems to be more geared towards industrial/freight uses, but if the refueling process (namely, the connecting/disconnecting the hose) and the ability to cheaply and cleanly process the hydrogen advance enough, I'd much prefer a hydrogen car to an EV. I wouldn't be able to charge it at home, but I can't do that with my current car.
Well this it is an EV, It's a hydrogen fuel cell (like a EV/Hydrogen hybrid). But I am excited to see if true Hydrogen cars will ever be practical. The Yamaha hydrogen engine sounds awesome!
I was actually interested in the actual cost for this fill up and the $/per mile breakdown. It's available but the station can't produce the hydrogen without electric power. At least you can have some emergency gasoline or diesel safely stored at home when electricity isn't available at these stations during a power grid outage or crisis such as a a earthquake, hurricane, or typhoon.
They could have a real winner here. It's like a master piece puzzle coming together..solar panels/wind farms/dam power constantly charging huge batteries that power the electricity needed to create the hydrogen out of the air and put into tanks as fuel for cars!! License the technology in Tesla cars to recharge the battery from different motions such as breaking. We can achieve the perfect car! It's not a full electric car either like Tesla, I certainly believe we will get to perfect hydrogen cars BUT, it will be a consortium of technologies to achieve it, hopefully the techs necessary to complete the perfect car come soon..
You missed showing the sticker inside the filling door which displays an expiration date. After that date, you are not allowed to fill the vehicle without replacing the hydrogen components so it's basically an expiration date for the car.
aaronw • 😂🤣😂 Garbage technology! So you get more extra car parts of the whole system, you use the grid electricity to create hydrogen, the hydrogen is used in the fuel cell to create electricity again to power the electric motor = two wasteful energy conversion processes = the idiotic hydrogen car. What if you just use the grid electricity to charge a car battery to power the electric motor = one economical energy conversion process = the electric car? 🙄😏🙂
@@mikel4879 Exactly. Hydrogen is a bitch to deal with, just look at how many scrubbed rocket launches there are due to leaks. It embrittles metal and leaks through everything. Its volumetric density is quite low compared to traditional fuel. Transporting it is also expensive. You can't use traditional pipelines due to embrittlement, and the only way to transport it in a big enough quantity is to cryogenically freeze it to 20K, which takes a lot of energy. It takes a ton of energy just to deal with hydrogen. Electricity is easy by comparison. The only reason it's priced as low as it is is due to the fact it's created from natural gas, a process limited to no more than 70% theoretical efficiency with a CO2 biproduct. Only 2% of hydrogen comes from water. Then the HFC stack is around 60% efficient at best. Not only do you need to deal with hydrogen, but the HFC system needs to do a lot more to filter the air than a traditional car. They can't handle pollutants like NOx or any sort of dirt. The PEM membrane also degrades over time as platinum is lost.
how long expiration do those components typically have? i drive biogas (methane) vehicles at work and the expiration on those components there basically means the scraping of the vehicle so essentialy if u have a 10 year old car with those expired u can basicaly throw the otherwise good car into a landfill.. biogas is also another name for natural gas used by the companies here..
@@tomwolf2603 I think for hydrogen cars it's 14 years from the date of manufacture. Hydrogen is hard on components, especially metal where it causes embrittlement. Hydrogen molecules are so small they basically seep through everything.
@Tim Rock-It Saunders You're clueless if you're comparing hydrogen to propane. Hydrogen is VERY different in almost all respects. First of all, hydrogen embrittles metal and is highly reactive, but propane is not. Due to the hydrogen molecule's small size, it seeps through virtually all materials. Propane does not. You're also dealing with extremely high pressures with hydrogen (7500-10,000PSI) whereas propane remains liquid at relatively low pressures (100-200PSI). Propane can easily be contained in steel tanks. Hydrogen cannot since it embrittles steel. HFC vehicles also require batteries. Fuel cells cannot be ramped up and down quickly. Fuel cell stacks also have a limited lifetime. The PEMFC membrane degrades. After 5000 cycles, for example, the Mirai has lost 60% of the electrochemical surface area in the fuel cell. (www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0306261919319786). Hydrogen filling stations are also very expensive. Unless they liquify hydrogen at 20C above absolute zero, they can only handle between 50-67 cars per day. The cost of a hydrogen filling station is around $2M. The cost of a Tesla supercharger stall is under $50K. Hydrogen is not very dense volumetrically, so it is very expensive to transport significant quantities to many locations. The equipment needed at a filling station is and always will be expensive. There's no way to avoid the cost of compressors and cooling equipment. And yes, hydrogen leaks are very much a thing. There have been numerous fires at hydrogen filling stations. Hydrogen leaks. Just look at how many rocket launches have had to be scrubbed due to hydrogen leaks, most recently with the SLS. And hydrogen also presents a big problem for the environment. If 5% of it leaks, not an unreasonable amount, it will significantly interfere with the breakdown of methane in the atmosphere, a very potent greenhouse gas. Hydrogen interacts with OH radicals in the atmosphere that would otherwise break down methane. The only reason there are any hydrogen filling stations is due to heavy subsidies. Hydrogen vehicles are also significantly more expensive than BEV vehicles. And as far as batteries breaking down? There are plenty of Teslas hitting 300,000 miles on their original battery packs. The cost of operating a HFC vehicle always will be significantly more than the cost of a BEV. Electricity is virtually everywhere and BEV vehicles are very efficient in how they use it. The cost of batteries has also dropped significantly and continues to fall rapidly. BEVs can already drive to most places in the country and the infrastructure is expanding rapidly. The only advantage a HFC vehicle has is that it can be filled in 7 minutes. It can't be charged at home, and filling it costs significantly more than charging a BEV, some of which can be charged to 80% in 20 minutes and that time is dropping.
Wow, that was impressive and fast. Of course, the main benefit of a hydrogen engine is that the only waste "exhaust" is water (apart from a trace bit of nitrogen oxide when oxidation occurs at normal environmental temperatures). So 300 miles with no carbon waste and only water generated- that is what makes this fantastic!
False, as most hydrogen stations need their fuel delivered via... you guessed it... ICE/diesel trucks. Worse, the hydrogen is either produced as an impurity removed during fossil fuel refinement or generated through electrolysis via the standard electric grid unless you're somehow using a producer that has verifiably committed to using 100% renewable power. At the absolute best, it's no cleaner AND less efficient than an EV charging from your own home's solar or some other renewable power source. But as of today, the best-case scenario is basically nonexistent for H2.
@@vaporcobra if your going down that rabbit hole, the majority of households get their electric from coal or natural gas plants. Solar panels are not zero emissions as the creation of solar panels requires a lot "dirty" processes. The only 3 viable combinations for the future without fusion becoming a thing, is Nuclear plants with electric cars , or Hydro cars with local Electrolysis systems, which need to be powered by nuclear. If your not a fan of Nuclear then Solar Satellite network in orbit, would be the best bet for a runner up in clear energy. H2 will probably lose out to EVs as people get scared with the concept of Hydrogen being unsafe due to airships blowing up in the1930s, people perception matters more than the actual science and stats in the fearmongering world of environmentalist Doomer land.
You had problems with the pump because you didn't follow the instuctions. It says to connect it to your car. You try but fail and then see a flashing light so you select your grade before you have it successfully connected. LOL. Just do what the pump tells you and it will work better.
Typical pressurized tanks have a 'shelf life' before needing to be recertified or replaced. I would be interested to know the service life of the H2 tank.
How about the life of *the fuel cell* ? From Energy.gov (US) "DOE has set ultimate targets for fuel cell system lifetime under realistic operating conditions at 8,000 hours for light-duty vehicles," Note that's ULTIMATE" targets and depends on factors including atmospheric conditions (temperature, air and fuel contamination) and "dynamic load cycles" that result in stresses on the chemical and mechanical stability of the fuel cell system materials and components" In other words you may be wondering after you have a "fender bender" if a fuel line or connection was "stressed" to the point it may fail in future..... 🤔 . And, "dynamic load cycles"? The more you use it, the more stress.
@@ronkosanovich6450 you can store hydrogen long term or transport it in pipelines as ammonia which is just 3 hydrogen atoms and one nitrogen. they're even working on engines that burn it without having transform it back into hydrogen.
@@anthonyrowland9072 Honestly, it's kinda awkward seeing people complain about what is, instead of realizing that those challenges are already in consideration and being actively developed to be eliminated. Do we still have horse-driven trams running through the cities? I don't think so... so why people want to volunatrily blind themselves towards possibilities, I do not know.
With Hydrogen pumps, the important question is how long does it take an immediately following car to fill up. Reportedly, this can be ~20 minutes, if the pump does not get rest periods to rebuild storage tank pressure.
wanted to write exactly this. people dont understand anything about how it works and take "best case" scenarios and run with it. lol. hydrogen will not become the standard at large scale. i dont see any alternative to electric battery cars for the next 1-2 decades.
@@12P14D22C You need to go back to school. Not to put too fine a point on it. There is only one reason we havent been using hydrazine since 1920. There is your clue, now research it and stay away from the trunkated youtube vids that show a lot of shortcuts without true science.
@@wjgoh653 nah there are more then one. First its the hardest gas to safe. It goes through alot of materials like its nothing. Making ot very hard to store. Also the way to create it is very inefficient. So even if we had a perfect engine that transforms 100÷ into kinetic energy it would still be a hard sell. There is more but These 2 are enough to Show that u dont know enough to be that bossy. Have a good day.
@@Got-Ash dang that seems a bit expensive. i drive a 2019 camry xse and i get an average of 480 miles with 14.5 gallons of gas. average gas price is about 4.30, so i spend about~$60 for a full tank. mind you, the 480 miles are mainly highway miles
fou mentioned cost at the beginning of the video, but didn't say how much at the end. Also, it would seem to me that the amount of gas that would fit into the tank would vary depending on the ambiant temperature, as at a given pressure, the density varies with temp.
I want a plug-in hybrid hydrogen/ battery car. Considering propulsion is electric in a hydrogen car, and there is a small battery as well, just increasing battery size to give 50 to 60 miles of plugin range, before hydrogen tank kicks in would be great. Use plugin power for daily commute and hydrogen for longer trips.
I do believe they have that, just for the purpose of regenerative braking. I don't think they can "back-feed" a fuel cell, to store energy. The battery isn't huge, but rather like a Toyota Prius, with a range of about 5 miles. With those huge Hydrogen pressure cylinders, there's no space for a big battery.
Please correct me if this is no longer an issue, but my understanding was that a further limitation was the pump needed to repressureize between fills - and that took something like 20 minutes - rending the pump pretty useless if you had a line of folks wanting to fill up. Again, let me know if they’ve overcome this. I’d be interested to know.
Hydrogen is too sensitive to ambient temperatures the biggest problem the General Motors has been having is to deal with sub-zero weather and then tropical weather in order to make a car that'll work well in both environments
@@unitforce4163 tech should be allowed to compete - instead EV was decided. Perhaps it is the best tech. But I fundamentally object to a heavy battery system with a steel cage and tons of space around it. Those 3 wheeled tictuks in India etc... flimsy, lightweight, but run for miles on a 2 stroke.
Thank you so much, So I have question so now is approximately $66 for the full tank of 5 kilogram hydrogen of the Toyota Mirai and will give you only 320 miles or 400 miles ?
20 cents per mile is close to the low average compared to gas so there is no savings there. I enjoyed this video, it was very informative. At $4.27 per gal for gas my Subaru Outback averages about 15 cents per mile plus my range is more. Unless money means nothing to you it will have to be economically feasible before people start buying these cars.
@@maanimrankhan2265 Fuel shortages in the coming years? I think you're confused with the electricity shortage that will cause even more rolling blackouts.
Just purchased a Mirai last week and have done 1/2 tank fill up. Very simple and easy. It's the cost of the Hydrogen that is a question, but with a $15000 fuel card, that isn't an issue. i am sure H2 will come down in cost as the cost of Natural gas goes down as well.
Generally speaking-The 15k is just an incentive.. remember when it was 10k tax credit for electric? Now it’s 7.5k IMO- The happy medium to all of this is hybrid
As an owner can you enquire with toyota about claimed 402 epa mile range. I say this because i want people to find out how to get closer to that and if they have any tips etc
Whoa. $15k fuel card. So if you pay say $80-$100 for a full tank, that is about about 150-200 times you can fill your car. If you commute 50mi/day (250mi/week) range and fill it say once a week then it is 200 weeks of free charging which is 4y of free charging. They're doing this very likely to get customers. For the EV, you get $7500 back + some states have additional EV rebates on top, which works out to easily $10k+ rebates back. At $10 for full EV tank, keeping same 250mi commute, you get 1000 charges which is 20y charging
@@fr9714 Creator does a video you get more perks than just gas card,but bare in mind this is still early days and advancements are being made in the hydrogen space but takes while to drip through Lots of countries have national hydrogen plans,germany,korea and japan have more hydrogen stations but planning for many more and even china is hoping to have 1000 built by 2030 supporting 1 million fcevs albeit mostly commercial/heavy industry vehicles. The other day big station opened in paris with electrolyzer on site,theres many ways to make hydrogen and the understanding of the physics,nano materials,economies of scale,modularization will bring prices down sharply
But $60 for 320 miles of range seems really high, at least compared to electric. The same level of charge into my Bolt cost me $17 (though it did take an hour...) Hydrogen seems to be closer to gasoline in cost. If we assume 25 MPG car with a 12 gallon tank, it can go approximately 300 miles on a fill up and costs roughly $5/gal * 12 gallons = $60
We had a Marai when we lived in Newport Beach. Two options to fill one of which was always and mean permanently out of service leaving UCI as the only option. Sometimes there would be 10-20 cars waiting.. Sometimes they were working on the station so out of service and sometimes we’d go around midnight to get filled up. The technology is fussy, the quick coupler connector was a pita and we learned pretty fast to use a glove to prevent ice burns . It was always super expensive but Toyotas card was great . Fueling stations were really limited to so cal . like you said ,50% of the stations were always offline .
For a truck with a giant capacity fuel tank to drive across the country, do you think a giant hydrogen tank is cheaper to build than a giant battery bank? 🤔
I use to drive for Schwann's Food services, which for those who do not know it is a home delivery of frozen foods. Anyway our Trucks used Propane, I hated them TBH lol.
Yes it all comes down to infrastructure. Currently there are no H stations in my state and the closest EV charging station is 20 miles away. Neither are present in my home town. We do however have multiple gas stations.
In my daily 4 mile commute to the freeway, I pass 7 gas stations, zero hydro, and zero EV chargers. So here in a 4 million people populated city of Phoenix AZ, there is also no infrastructure.
Have the grid connection at home ? Because almost every one does in the civilized world . Most ev users just plug in at home chargers are only need when on a road trip.
thanks for the complete honesty throughout. the reason why i went electric for my snowplow machine was because starting the gasoline powered machine each time was too hard for me. your struggling fueling the hydrogen car reminded me of exactly that. pardon my ignorance but i thought fulling hydrogen was simply to put water into tank home but after watching this video, for a person as weak as i am, i'm totally staying away from the hydrogen powered cars
You need electricity to make hydrogen gas from liquid water, then you have to squeeze the gas with tank pressure similar to that of rocket ship, so you need a very sturdy hose to handle the pressure, with electric battery cars you just turn up the voltage with a on-site transformer so you don't need a thick copper cable to charge the car, tesla even runs liquid through their cable to keep it cool to further reduce the wire thickness and making it easier to handle, so the cable they use to charge a semi truck battery isn't much thicker than their cable made for sedans.
He failed to push the blue locking sleeve forward the first time, possibly because it was frozen, so when he unplugged the filling hose to try again the system reset itself and he had to start again.
I haven't read all the replies. But, the rule is, as more cars fill up. It gets slower and slower. The nozzle starts to freeze to the cars nipple. Eventually, you'll have to wait for others to fill up and thaw in between. TFL did a great review on filling up Mirai. It took 45 minutes for him to get filled up.
@@RhaspunSome form of an auto warming on the pump head would be smart with an auto shutoff at achieves temperature, Also with a way so it won’t over heat, Limiter.
@@incognito-yj4gu Minus-300° coming out of the nozzle.. The hose isn't the problem. It's the nozzle tip coming in contact with the car's intake. You'll need a flame thrower. 😂
Being from nj and a fan of led zeppelin, I remember the hindenburg. I can appreciate the possibilities of hydrogen fuel but I would want blast panels like the Abrams tank has with its ammo compartment.
As an Aussie the noises are common as we use LPG here to fuel cars, mostly taxis now as fallen out of favour for average user as cost benefit fell off a cliff.
It’s about half the price, but at least 40% savings. Issue is tank inspections and other stuff. With modifications efficiency however can be substantially improved. Thinking about it tbh.
As CEO of a company that has expertise in Hydrogen, we recognize that H2 production, compression, transportation and storage can in no way even remotely compete with the energy density, stability and availability of liquid hydrocarbons. H2 is VERY reactive and difficult to produce, it is not available as free hydrogen in the atmosphere. H2 is useful for onsite production and use, such as in manufacturing cleaner liquid hydrocarbons, chemicals and fertilizers... as a direct fuel - it is silly. (Btw... that you actually considered that unit was a hydrogen production facility, shows just how uninformed the masses are - no offense.)
All it takes is electricity and water to produce hydrogen locally. So yeah, a building that big could easily be producing hydrogen. Of course 95% of hydrogen is produced by oil companies by processing all the virtually free methane they would otherwise burn off at the wells. Funny how a CEO could be so uninformed.
Might have missed this in the video but if this is renewable at the gas station the price seems pretty high at $60 for 260 miles. Will these prices go down after the equipment is paid for? I've never even heard of hydrogen cars before so this is extremely interesting just trying to do the math on cost of travel.
At the current price of gas the price is equal. Gas will only go up in price, and Hydrogen will only go down as technology advances. Green Hydrogen is the future, no pollution.
No it won't. Gas prices stay low because we the ppl demand it. There aren't enough ev or hydrogen cars (or tree huggers) to over power the masses with gas cars. And yes big oil will become big hydrogen if it is the only choice. When the numbers are good with alternative fuels ppl will transition to them. No amount of environmental bull shit is going to help. In fact it hurts the argument for them. If there is 1 thing most ppl know it's that the movement is full of shit and lie constantly.
Thanks this was quite informative. I believe you should have started the stopwatch earlier, like when you pulled up to the pump, because all the jerking around with cards and nozzles is part of the filling experience... especially if you hope to compare the time to fill with other fuels or with a tesla supercharger, for example.
Yep. The person in line behind you when filling has to wait for the complete proccess, not just the actual fill time. Timer starts when you put it in park, doesnt stop until you pull away. Anything else is simply obvious propoganda.
@@apexcrazyful How is it "obvious propaganda"? He was documenting the entire process slowly so the audience could understand it fully? He ordinarily wouldn't go that slow. Everyone's fill times, no matter the fuel type, would vary due to any number of variables in the transaction, including payment processing. The only constant that can be measured in any fill situation is when you're allowing the pump to do the work.
If there was a person in line behind you, he/she would have to wait 10 to 15 minutes for the pump to get to the right pressure, before being able to use it. That's an important disadvantage of H2
it really depends on how full the tanks are at the refueling station, I owned an LPG car, it's a car that ran on liquified gas IE: propane/butane mix. When the tanks were full then the limiter kicks in, it takes 15-30 seconds from empty and I am on my way shortly after... But when the the fuel stations tanks are running low then the PSI of the tank would take a while to fill, sometimes minutes as the meter clicks by slowly... so it is all about how much fuel they have to sell you
Hydrogen vehicles are fine if you live within a 30 mile radius of San Francisco or about a 40 mile radius of Los Angeles because there are a grand total of 4 stations located anywhere else in the State.
I agree about the lack of stations. Orange county has a bunch too. San Diego only has one!!!! They are going to build a few more but that is not great at all.
In Europe it‘s a bit better in Germany and the Netherlands elsewhere you have practically no hydrogen filling stations and new ones are built at a rate of 10-20 per year (for the whole of Europe)…
@@karlgunterwunsch1950 I don't know if Toyota will continue with the Mirai but I am enjoying it fully. I hope they can turns thing around but without the infrastructure it would be hard.
does the ease of filling up with Hydrogen outweigh the burden of having to look for a working hydrogen pump station? You said 50% were working? Did that mean you were having to spend more hydrogen just to find a pump or did you use some kind of app to locate a good one?
As the technology progresses and methods of separating the atoms in water into the usable hydrogen get cheaper the cost will go down. As well as the expansion of the fueling stations. Its a new technology just like a flat screen panel tv was many thousands of dollars when they first came out you can get them for a few hundred depending on the size.
Yes, because its hard to make, and there is not too many companies around that make hydrogen... However, it is expanding. A lot of companies switching to hydrogen powered vehicles like buses, forklifts, trucks, heavy duty vehicles etc. Matter of the time, when we will see more and more companies going to make hydrogen, and the price will go down. Matter of the time. Id say petrol and diesel powered cars are the gen 1 cars, Electric cars are then gen 2, and the gen 3 will be the hydrogen ones. I think it is way better than EV cars and better than petrol/diesel cars, and i would love to own a hydrogen powered car. Maybe later, hopefully.
It will never be more efficient than an EV either. So if you're making the hydrogen from splitting water with electricity, it's better to just put it into a battery with that same electricity.
Fun fact. Locally in sunny South Africa I can book at least 4 seperate average fare return flights between Johannesgburg and Durban (567.4km) for the dollar amount it costs to fill that one hydrogen tank. So for a 1/4 of the price you pay to travel 418Km's I can fly even further - Money and time saved! - The math seems insane. I'd say the green revolution needs better bean counters if they want to make it work.
I think the main downside is that when there are fuel shortages it will be difficult for people to fill up shopping bags full of hydrogen like they do with gasoline 🤣 but in all seriousness, hydrogen seems really cool, thanks for the video. Definitely pros and cons to each so it will be interesting to see where things go in the next 10-15 years
@@Alab.A the same could be said for batteries - factor in power loss during the charge, and then the discharge to power the motor, we are looking at a 40% power loss.
@@vintagethrifter2114 lol well for one you would need some darn large shopping bags (1kg of H2 gas at standard temp&pressure = 120000 liters ( 3170 USgal ) volume, you will loose some on the way due to its permeability through materials and how are you going to fill a high pressure tank with atmospheric pressure Hydrogen in shopping bags? ;)
I don't know about this just yet--I drove busses in Las Vegas about 20 years ago that were Compressed Natural Gas engines, they had more power than the diesels, and were much cleaner in emissions. We could re-fuel a bus in 5 mins or so--basically the same methods as the hydrogen. I think the pressure in the tanks were around 4000 psi. I haven't been out there is many years, don't know what they're running today. But I thought CNG powered vehicles were the way to go, And I think the conversion from conventional gas engines may be easier
Gas engines (lpg/cng) etc run much quieter and they have very little carbon blow-by which allows the engine oil to remain a similar golden colour in between oil changes. Much less engine wear and the oil seals stay in very good condition as they’re not getting soaked by dirty, black engine oil.
With 25 million LPG vehicles being used it is the way to go, less expensive and lower emissions. Dacia have Duel Fuel vehicles, LPG and petrol. The US could benefit from using LPG with lower cost and emissions.
I’d certainly prefer the hydrogen fuel to the ev , for people like myself who have to use a ferry to get to family then stopping for 5 minutes is something that we have to do anyway so filling up whilst my wife has her comfort break instead of having to hang around for the ev to charge seems like my preferred choice
I have owned 2 EVs since 2014 charging the majority of the time off a 110 plug …. I recently upgraded to a level 2 charger Jan 2022 as I plan to get a 3rd EV for my son I prefer fueling at home
Cost? The latest batteries from CATL and BYD charge really fast. But I think charging time is a red herring, because I charge overnight. The convenience factor with hydrogen is really poor.
Definitely fills faster than an Electric. But the downsides are too high - it seems to cost about twice as much as Gasoline (compared to Electric, which varies but averages to about 1/4 the price gasoline). Plus, you can't fill up at home. Which sounds minor to some, but its actually incredibly awesome to wake up to a full "tank" every day.
@@rodriguez3939 Used prices seem fine on my Bolt - nearly the same as new. But I've only had it a little over a year. Best thing is it's saved more on fuel costs than the car payment, even with the price of gas dropping.
Buying a hydrogen storage tank would be expensive compared to gas, but who wants to buy a hydrogen fuel tank? Once they have more stations and better methods to produce the fuel, it will be cheaper than gas. And the US would be the leader in the tech.
@@easyenetwork2023 Who wants to ever go anywhere and refuel? It's much nicer just not doing that. The last time I needed to stop at a charger was in 2022. I wake up with a full tank every day. Can't beat that with Hydrogen.
I like my 2015 Subaru. I paid cash for it new. It has been averaging 33 mph and I drive mostly around town. It only has 23,000 miles on it because I don’t drive much. We get some snow in winter here so AWD with winter tires is nice.
I will also stick with my Subaru AWD, however the sales people at Subaru told me that Subaru expects to go to all electric in just a few years ??? I will hate to see that day as I love the Boxer engine and will keep mine for many years to come.
You always need to leave some expansion room for when it gets warm/hot! You can demonstrate this by simply measuring the pressure is in your tire, go for a drive of at least 20 minutes non-stop, and then check the pressure! (Be careful, your tire will be warm to maybe even hot). I'm afraid that Hydrogen will never really catch on, almost everyone has seen pictures of the Zeppelin Hindenburg going up in flames.... and will always think of that whenever they hear the word Hydrogen! Also, -40 agrees C = -40 degrees F.
Hydrogen is also extremely tough to contain, it tends to leak through most seals/gaskets. Small leak of hydrogen could end up with your garage exploding many times more violently than a natural gas explosion. Batteries are safer, especially the iron phosphate ones. I'd rather deal with a thermal runaway battery than a hydrogen explosion.
@@boxlid214 So, slippery little hydrogen, the smallest element in the universe, is going to escape tanks and seals designed to contain it, but your garage will hold it in? Durrrr. I don't think so, Jack. Even if you cracked open a hydrogen tank and let it all escape out into your garage it would escape your garage quickly there would never be a chance of explosion.
I'd say most people over the age of 30 remember learning about the Hindenburg, but kids these days don't even know how many states are in the United States or how many continents are on the Earth. Not to mention the fact of the matter is the hydrogen had nothing to do with the Hindenburg coming down. The Hindenburg was made out of a flammable fabric and painted with a flammable paint and then was struck by lightning. It caught on fire, all of the hydrogen escaped into the atmosphere (likely contributing little to the flames), and then the Hindenburg came crashing down because it had no buoyancy. It was not a hydrogen explosion.
@@joshuaewalker Actually, she did Not get struck by lightning, what happened was improper grounding (those "ropes" that they lowered but no one got close to were actually steel cables to electrically ground the Hindenburg and tests have showed that various skin panels could still have a charge on them. Add in a sharp and sudden maneuver that apparently ripped at least one of her Hydrogen cells (big bag full of Hydrogen) so it was leaking right by where a wire stay was broken and -- -- -- !
Lol hydrogen is lighter then air and the tanks are fitted with pressure release valves in case of fire. U like Tesla which spontaneously combust on their own and even fireman can't put the fire out form the deadly lithium battery fires.
Thank you for a very educational video. Wow, 320 miles between a fill up on a hydrogen vehicle. That is an impressive travel range. Approx 4 mins to fill the tank, sweet!
$60 that about 15 mpg. I get 65mpg with my diesel in the UK and get 550 miles per tank. Crazy expensive vehicle and crazy expensive fuel. Only crazies will buy them
Cost to fill was $60.25 and he said that should get him 260 miles. You must have missed the part where he said they had stopped once before to top it off on their journey.
As an Engineer who has registered designs for compressed air systems 125 psi, pressurized water systems 400 psi and designed natural gas piping, this scares me. Our standard in Canada is TSSA which references ASME standards. We are talking 70 MPa or 10,000 psi, in the hands of consumers. Obviously this passed the ASME requirements.
$60.00/300 Mi=$.20/mile. About double the cost of an electric charging at~$.40/kWh. No fear though, the cost will come down, as the system develops. Great review! I've been waiting to actually see someone do a 'road trip' in a hydrogen fuel cell car.
Oranges and apples to compare $.20/mile to $.40/kWh. The accurate comparison is $.20/mile for hydrogen and $.045/mile for EVs. If you don't believe me Google it. But 20 cents a mile to not even a penny per mile is a no-brainer. I saw Carl Rove pull a similar stunt on Faux entertainment only Carl got his decimal places wrong for EVs in his comparison to ICE vehicles. ICE = internal combustion engines. There is so much misinformation out there it all depends on your bias about what you believe without looking up the facts.
@@alexnutcasio936 One H2 station in Norway had a tank explode in 2019 - the shockwave blew out windows and activated airbags in cars driving nearby. That pretty much did it for consumer adoption, probably unfairly, but BEVs had enough lead at that point. They do still have Hydrogen in Norway, but, it's facing an uphill struggle.
@@brushlessmotoring yeah, I remember very clearly the two guys who had bought new mirai’s just a month before or whatever, it was kinda funny, they suddenly had useless cars as all stations closed for some time
Chris Bates The stop watch should run from the moment the car door closes, to the moment you finish "fuelling"..... And.... Running to the bathroom, (washing hands!) Buying the coffee, Checking email while you drink it. All of which you do WHILE a car is charging, rather than AFTER you finish "fuelling" Hydrogen, etc......? . Suddenly charging becomes less time intensive? . You charge "while you do other things" not "BEFORE you do other things".
What is the average distance to a filling station and what happens when the ambient temperature is minus 20 to minus 40 Celsius. When will it be possible to fill up at home?
The biggest pro is definitely the filling speed. The biggest con is, Kyle just paid $60+ to get to 259 projected miles of range. That's far more expensive than an equivalent ICE car (around $35 for the same mileage), while an equivalent EV would be even cheaper yet.
Looks like about year ago pricing. At that time I could fill up for $40 and get 450 miles with my Kia Forte. This and EV make no sense.
10 месяцев назад+1
Re-writing comment. No idea why it was removed. It's way too expensive now , for sure. Projections do put 2030 prices at $1.5 for 3 kg, which would make the refill in the video a $2.5 transaction. You probably have to add some fees and jazz on top of that, but it seems it will get a lot cheaper - if projections hold true.
I am all for this, as opposed to EV. I cannot get my head around the worlds push for EV as opposed to this more environmentally efficient technology. I can only think that it is down to big money. Hydrogen needs more investment to make filling stations more readily available, pretty simple.
Putting a hydrogen plant next to a solar farm would make sense. The hydrogen stores the energy. The by product is oxygen. That also can be bottled and sold. BUT will The CA DNR allow them in California deserts?. I am pretty sure it won't happen on US government property in California. And there is lots of both.
If you think EITHER hydrogen or EVs are beneficial to the environment, you are mistaken. The most responsible way forward are biomass-derived motor fuels. Not biofuels like ethanol or bio-diesel, biomass-derived Fischer Tropsch hydrocarbons. Maybe in 20 years the MSM will catch on to this fact.
@@warrenpuckett4203 dude... storing hydrogen is a HUGE issue. First thing it leaks. From the walls of the tanks. The higher the pressure the more it leaks. Second- its a bomb. As one of the most explosive substences any car crash can lead to an explosion. And any accident in gas station can take out a block. 3. The production of hydrogen makes alot of pollotion. Electoliting water takes a lot of energy and account for only 4%. Main production is from mathen gas. For every ton of hydrogen you get 10-12 tons of co and co2 and other bad gases.
Glenn here. Just wondering what the total bill was for the fill up? I heard you say $60 but I think that was before you were topped off. What would your Tesla cost for the same miles at a supper charger? Love your videos, THANKS A BUNCH!
Hydrogen cars have an efficiency of about 15-20% while EVs are +-80% efficient. It takes a lot more energy to create, compress and transport hydrogen compared to just directly use the electricity. This means driving a car with green hydrogen is at least 4 times more expensive than a typical EV.
If you want to completely fill your tank you need to start with minus 40C - as like ALL Gases when you compress them they HEAT up! At minus 40C you will end up with 80C in your tank - so it will be about 3/4 full - if you want it FULL then its at least half an hour
I spent over 5year designing hydrogen reformers and fuel cell systems… I’m a trained, ME with a degree from a top school and I’ll tell you hydrogen for transportation applications is an absolute scam. Fuel cells are great for the space station not for a car just use a lithium battery duh. Hydrogen is not energy dense and takes more energy to get into H2 gas from H2O liq than you can every get back sooo ya it’s a joke for cars and will never pan out. The entire H2 industry is only propped up by gov handouts. H2 gas can only be stored efficiently at really high pressures - so now your car is a giant bomb ya idk that’s going to work
Then why even use lithium batteries…costs too much to replace, if it catches fire, you cannot extinguish it with normal procedures and it is way too costly for the roi. stick with ICE with diesel or gas.
The reason our governments spend so much propping up this H2 scam is because of successful lobbying by oil companies. I can only assume our "representatives" are getting a sizable kickback.
The benefit of Hydrogen is that really you can pretty much build the generators anywhere... so there would be minimal need for transporting the liquid over long distances.
@@Wirmish Yeah, in an ideal world, the energy would come from the likes of solar and wind power. I was thinking that its much cheaper to store H2 than electricity.
How would you fill a hydrogen car in the cold and rain without the nozzle freezing in place? Could it even work when the ambient temperature is below freezing as it's not like you can wait a few moments for it to thaw out.
Every hospital in country that uses liquid oxygen and is able to get loaded in the winter and rain with no problems. Hydrogen should be no different. Also if it becomes more common and the infrastructure is expanded they will address some of the inconveniences now experienced.
@@gsxrsquid Toyota state in the Mirai owners manual "If the nozzle cannot be removed after fueling, it may be frozen to the vehicle. Wait for the hydrogen nozzle to thaw before attempting to remove. Do not pull or rotate the hydrogen nozzle forcibly. Failure to follow these precautions may cause damage. Refer to the Toyota Owner’s Manual-Refueling, for additional Warnings/Notices." Hence, the question is valid. Waiting for a fill port to thaw in California is perfectly reasonable but how can you disconnect a hydrogen fill port when the ambient temperature is below zero? www.glpautogas.info/documentos/HOW-REFUEL-HYDROGEN-CAR.pdf
Well I think the thing that kills the hydrogen idea will be the price of hydrogen. Since there is no good way to generate hydrogen gas efficiently, the price of hydrogen will always be tied to the price of electricity. Plus transport. So driving a hydrogen car will be 3 to 5 times as expensive as driving an EV just for the saved refueling time on long trips. I dont think it will be worth it for many people....
There are at least 2 ways to power a car with H2, this one uses a hydrogen fuel cell; decades ago, the American Hydrogen Association bought a used rare Internal Combustion Engine with 3 ports into the engine instead of the normal 2, and made some modifications to the vehicle to successfully run it with hydrogen. They had fun taking it for its Emissions test and watching the technicians trying to figure out how their equipment had failed so badly as to be giving negative readings. They went over and explained to the technicians that their equipment was functioning just fine, they were just testing a vehicle that actually cleaned the air as it ran, because it was burning hydrogen, not a fossil fuel.
Would love to know how long term reliable these fuel cell vehicles are and how they do in the cold and heat. Would love more information about these vehicles. I actually like this idea and would love more info and how far along the development is. Also would love to know if there are any plans to put up more of these hydrogen stations and what the roll out plan is.
@@GT1Vette Would love to see the testing and longevity data. I have read the studies published on some of the bus fleets in CA and first gen was mixed bag. They retooled for a second gen to address the issues they have had. All that data is only in milder climates in CA. I would like to know what the expected service life is like for consumer applications.
@@feero9680 These companies appear to be planning for a longer time horizon where hydrogen is one of the key storage methods. They need to start backing it up by planning the infrastructure and to begin deploying it. Tesla wouldn't be where it is today if they hadn't built out the charging infrastructure. CCS charging infrastructure is terrible by comparison and is creating problems. Infrastructure is key. Tesla created the software tailored around that infrastructure to make using an EV almost effortless and is only getting better as more infrastructure is rolled out. People won't even need the nav software once there are chargers on every street corner like gas stations. If hydrogen is going to play a central role they need to be building the infrastructure now.
the other often missed benefit of H cars is the size of the battery. The Toyota can go just about as far (miles) as a Tesla with about 1% of the battery size. Battery raw materials are going to be an issue...we can stretch it 100 times farther this way...
True. Battery packs in FCEVs act more like a buffer for temporal storage and deliver based on the vehicle's power needs, thus being much smaller than the ones in BEVs. They're the same size as those on hybrid cars, and could be even smaller.
Looks like a pain in the heini. This system will have to get a LOT simpler for it to be safe enough for the average person to handle safely. In the mean time I am sure the tech's are working hard to smooth things out so it can be as simple as a gas or electric car/truck to fuel up.
I wish these companies could realize all they have to do is just engineer a little more complex efficient exhaust system on cars and we could reduce CO2 and gasses from cars by 90%. I mean seriously, it’s so abundant why would we not use natural gas or gas in general for cars?
money is the answer. With Hydrogen the power of many oil companies who rule the world now, would end. Also with proper equipment you can make your own hydrogen in home with help of solar panels for example. This way people would get independent and it’s not what government likes.
New tech has been announced (capillary-fed electrolysis) that makes it as cheap to make from electricity (solar) as it is to make from natural gas, so green hydrogen is on its way. It might even be possible for the stations to make their own Hydrogen. There is also a more traditional design (crank, pistons, driveshafts) hydrogen engine in the works (very small and light), instead of the fuel cell technology you see here.
As a retired firefighter, I was taken aback a little when you stated that the hydrogen tanks can only withstand 80 degrees Celsius. Do you realize that that is only 176 degrees Fahrenheit? What happens if you have this car parked in your garage and you have a house fire. Temperatures in a structure fire will easily reach 1000F. Does that mean that your hydrogen-fueled Toyota will do a credible imitation of the Hindenburg? And what about the poor firefighter that has just used his Haligan tool to pop the lock on your garage door when she blows! Everyone will say that liquid-fueled vehicles can catch fire too, but everyone watches too many movies. Vehicle fires are really pretty rare, and are quite easy to extinguish. Glad I'm retired.
Actually, I heard that the reason the Hindenburg burned so badly was not the hydrogen gas, but the very volatile doping substance used to seal the fabric of the bag around the zeppelin's spindly frame. Look up the episode on Myth Busters where they debunk the urban legend of shooting high-pressure flammable gas bottles to cause explosions...
I think you've left off a zero on the number of degrees Celsius that a hydrogen fuel tank in a Mirai can withstand, but I'm writing that only because I saw another video claiming 800 degrees. Do you know this to be false?
Bless you for spreading the truth about hydrogen. Everytime I hear the about the Hindenburg as some kind of evidence that hydrogen is bad, I feel brain cells dying. It is literally safer than gasoline and batteries in the event of a collision.
You also need to consider the drive to the fueling station. Which makes refilling this car about 6 times slower than an EV. In my country there are currently TWO active hydrogen stations. This car was an enormous failure.
Thank you for this video! Fascinating. I see the potential downsides-given American history with hydrogen (Hindenburg) I suspect the noise associated with hydrogen, and the complicated freezing connection will delay widespread acceptance of these vehicles. Upside-can be filled up quickly similar to petrol.
as I remember the hindenburg sported a swastika on the tail fin so it's probably German at that and it burned also because they shalacked the outside with some kind of flammable paint
It currently cost me about the same amount to refuel my jeep cherokee. I get around 350 miles on a full tank of gasoline. The Toyota Mirai costs close to triple what my jeep was purchased for. I understand that the Mirai is clean energy but the price difference doesn't make any sense to switch over.
Yes. We are all going to run either hydrogen or electric cars because we have 30 years of fossil fuel left (which decreases with the increasing need..) But until then they'll milk us until they can. Pretty funny that we could create a car that LASTS and is affordable, but people are generally selfish which means they wouldn't want a car like that, nor do the companies. If you can buy a car that is slightly different, why would you choose the one that makes sense?
@@onequestion2059 problem is that there is not many hydrogen stations and when I saw the price he paid and how much miles he will out of it I was like silent lol same thing happen to the guy in the vid
Wow! Great information. Obviously, infrastructure (for refilling tanks) is what needs to take place before people will begin buying and using Hydrogen powered vehicles. I'm guessing you are right about trucks being the first major users because their filling infrastructure will be more planned and assured for them, based on their regular routes. Maybe, if you're interested, you could give a short "thumbnail" on "the plan" to generate and distribute hydrogen to these stations? So far your video is the first description of hydrogen vehicles I've seen on You tube. Many thanks!
@@s0012823 Hydrogen for cars is both very dangerous and totally pointless. Battery EVs are where it's at. Nobody apart from Toyota bothers with this nonsense.
How long does the next on in line have to wait for the station to be ready? Does the station have to lower the pressure and sort of reboot? Or is it ready again immediately after you've finished? Im not sure less powerful people are able to handle this with ease. Especially in colder regions.
@@zepm7184 Nope, the trucks are run at half the pressure. After filling up the station must cool down (as hydrogen warms up when the pressure drops during transfer to the car from 1150 bar to 700 in the tank). Be 5th in line and you should be ready in 2 hours…
A couple points to note, I believe this station was actually a station where trucks bring the hydrogen to it - it is just created in a greener way. Also, the Mirai has a 5 kg tank so we weren’t completely dead although the gauge cluster showed that we were at a minimal level
Kyle how is this green? As I understand it most hydrogen comes from methane gas. And the conversion process shows it's even less efficient from a well-wheels energy efficiency perspective. Than driving a gas or diesel car is today.
Plus of course still uses rare earths for the catalysts, still uses big batteries and electric motors etc. 🤔
@@4literv6 what is your point? EVs aren't even "green" either....just so you know.
@@acatic80 I am very aware after 4 years of research on modern evs about what they are and are not.
Unless you have something worth actually reading? Don't respond to someone who didn't engage you. 👍🏻
Greener than what? That hydrogen delivery truck probably came from one of the five oil refineries in the LA area or if that is "making" reformed natural gas on site, it is emitting CO2 from that elevated pipe or other vent. In either case that is not "green" hydrogen, as neither method is using electrolysis from a green source of surplus electricity.
I do thank you for pointing out the time and trouble needed to get to these infrequently operational stations. HFC long haul trucks and busses maybe, but we average drivers should not be subsidizing the developments needed for that niche market at those exorbitant prices per kg.
Any way, my Tesla Model 3 LR can get from 20 to 80% in the much rarer instance of a road trip like yours and have the same number of potential miles in the time I took to view this video at a Supercharger:) Oh and the Mirai is actually heavier than my car.
@@4literv6 It is not green. However as you noted produced from natural gas(methane) which the US has a large supply. East coast is just brimming full of natural gas which we should also use to produce electricity.
My son is an engineer and contributed to the design of the hydrogen tanks in the Mirai. I'm so proud of him.
Legend
Good boy. He's doing a great job
yea yea
Proud of him, Sir
Regards from India
Please thank your son ..from Arizona ..bless
Hydrogen was $13.14/KG when filmed. Now it's $36.95/KG x 5.65 KG=$208.77 for a fillup to go 260 miles or 80 cents per mile. Ridiculous. And in Missouri, the only hydrogen filling station makes you get a container containig 100kg at H35 or 5000psi at a minimum.
Not even surprised oil companies raise prices when they feel like it. They're trying to trick ppl into thinking it's a possibility alternative.
Wow....
Great information
It would have to get a lot cheaper for the vehicle and the fuel. We have loads of fossil fuels and can insure for the environment and price.
Exponential technological improvement will deal with this compared with the 20 minute highway chargers fill up. Not to mention the millions of tons of copper wiring - equal to the total copper mined since the beginning of the Bronze Age.
There is an H2 station near me at a Shell station, but comments on Google Maps say it has been broken for over a year and attendants say no plans to fix it. Shell also dropped a plan funded by California to install more stations, so seems like Mirais will be orphans soon. Fueling costs ~4x an efficient gasoline sedan.
Shell are closing their H2 fuelling stations.
As I'm sure millions have said already, the key issue with hydrogen is we have to make it. And we make it from carbon sources, using a staggering amount of power. (compressing it, pumping it, carrying it, etc., etc.) If you want to be "green", H2 absolutely is not the path. Alcohol, bio-diesel, and solar, wind, geothermal, hydro, etc. are all better ways to be "green". Making H2 from "excess electricity" is also not a very good means of storage. (maybe better than aluminium-air batteries... smelting Al is a very energy intense process.)
But I will concede, a liquid (or compressed gas) is way faster to "recharge" than any battery ever will be.
Even EVs are a scam and the furthest thing away from being green, in an even more extreme fashion than hydrogen vehicles. What they fail to tell you is that one excavator burns thousands of gallons of diesel in a 12 hour shift in order to mine the lithium, cobalt and nickel thats needed to create a single battery pack. EVs use many battery packs in one vehicle. Mind you I have nothing against EVs, but marketing it as a green alternative to gas vehicles is just downright deceptive.
The solution is to make it from nuclear power stations. Duh.
Same you to are supporting expensive fossil fuel, sabotaging green energy like the curruption people in the past critics. Disregarding green energy, switch to distructive pollution fossil oil gas mining big profit.
There should be feedback like a light or beep to indicate when the H2 nozzle is securely attached to the refilling port of the vehicle.
In oil n gas industry there are mechanical indicator to indicate correct coupling
It won't let you start filling unless it's properly attached, also the reason why it had him take it out and try again is because he kept putting it in and taking it out.
It's just quick connect which is standard on air connections. Just pull back the collar momentarily and push it on until it clicks into place
You could see the greenish yellow ring appear at the base of the coupler when he finally figured out how to attach it, it's similar to your typical air hose connection, pull back the locking collar slightly before meeting male to female connections and it'll clip right on(I'm sure many of us watching were either yelling at our phones or mumbling it under our breaths when he couldn't figure it out lol)
Yea, a light bulb next to hydrogen. What could possibly go wrong. Even hear of the Hindenburg?
I was in line to get gas in Anaheim, and noticed a long line of cars waiting for one pump. I asked a guy what was happening and he told me they were all waiting to fill up with hydrogen. We talked through the cost, which when he started his lease was less that gas, but now a month ago, it was more expensive then gas. He loved the actual car, but said that owning a hydrogen car was more like being owned by a hydrogen car. There were only two places for fuel in the area, the other being a Toyota in Orange. And they were often down. He also told me that if you wanted to say drive to Las Vegas, which many Southern Californian's do, you're out of luck, no hydrogen stations in Las Vegas or along the route.
In that case you notify the company, and they rent a car for you for the trip, which you were allowed to do several times a year. Also, when he got the car, they supplied him with a $15,000 dollar fuel card, which after over two years of driving he had barely dented, so at the moment the car was cheap to operate, but once the card ran out, he figured it would be more expensive then a similar ICE powered car of the same size and cost.
I thought it was fascinating, but very limiting. I mean, if you think an EV is limiting, hydrogen's another ballpark. He did say that there were fleets of cars used by delivery services that loved it, but they had access to fuel, and all their trips were local. The incentive when he got the car was a) Federal Rebates, b) CA Rebates, c) So. California Rebates, d) Manufacturer Rebates, and finally e) that $15k fuel card. So he got a $40K car for around $22k, plus no fuel costs. So, he was pleased, for now. "Would he buy one again" I asked, and he said, "Not sure. I do think about that question though."
interesting. I feel like H2 is more for vehicles that need a LOT of energy, more energy than you could easily get from batteries, such as aircraft, ships, trains, LONG distance trucks (over 250 miles), etc. Because those vehicles operate from certain places, such as airports for aircraft, marine ports for ships (usually deep water ports), etc.
For small cars the size of the Mirai, I feel like battery is better, since we people already have electric going into their house/apartment/condo, and at worst it is a question of having an L2 charger installed. 🙂
Although, the other other reason to make green hydrogen is LARGE SCALE energy storage. You can carve out a storage cavern underground, and when you are generating excess green power, you split water and pump H2 underground. It should last a long time down there. Then when it's time to get it back, you let the H2 out and either combust it (with a flame) or run it through a high power fuel cell. 🙂
@@neutrino78x H2 is good for airplanes, maybe ships, and steel production. For cars it is just a waste of energy.
@@Henning_Rech
"H2 is good for airplanes, maybe ships, and steel production. For cars it is just a waste of energy."
Yes, this is what I said, I agree with this statement.
A 2 year old Mirai with 15k miles for $19k is overpriced by $3700 according to car gurus. Even with the incredible subsidies, they are basically worthless once they drive off the lot. No way this makes sense for any consumer. Agree with all the sentiments on this thread.
I missed the final cost.... and another 260 miles. Believe I'll stick with my 98 civic hatch. I drove right at ll00 miles to see my brother in New Mexico, and it cost me a whopping $62- a few cents, That was running 75/80 with a/c. Had a 96 that got 42 mpg, at 65/75 with a/c. That was at least 90+% interstate driving.
If you already have a decent ride and you don't mind keeping it vs a newer model, it literally doesn't matter. Unless it's a piece of junk that needs repair every 2 months, using your older vehicle is always better than the production required to build a new EV or hydrogen car.
@@sws212 was nationally certified mechanic, but I also have an A&P license. Worked everything from a 2stroke weed easter to a Boeing 747, The Ole Honda will be cruising for some time. I do hope you do not have a serious accident. Ask your dealer how they have protected the hydrogen bomb you are carrying around as fuel. Car batteries give off hydrogen gas, have you seen one explode! I hope you don't.
@@pdufusc ......I've seen batteries blow. It wasn't like a stick of dynamite. I'm excited for the Hydrogen vehicles as I don't believe electric cars are the way. Electric is exciting, but not for the scale they want. BTW, I've seen gas cars explode (Pinto) so I would trust it as we can't be worried by what if.....
I remember getting I believe it was 62 miles a gallon in a late 90s Civic traveling cross country from Cali to Chicago. The interstate performance and downhill driving helped a lot!
I think the inevitable EV backlash will drive a new era of fuel and environmental performance in ICE vehicles. PHEV are already have far surpassed the 100mpg-e mark, and 150mpg will be standard in a few years.
I live in NM and unfortunately you see 20-30 SUVs/Pick-ups for every Honda Civic. It could make a difference that will add up over time in the long run if those 20-30 SUVs/Pick-ups also were BEV, PHEV, or had hybrid powertrains. People will switch to hydrogen in a minute if it only cost $5-$10 to fill up each time for +300 mile range.
Really enjoyed this look into the new Mirai. And don't worry about the newbie aspects of the refilling, we're all newbies at some point and this is a great overview. It's also refreshing to hear someone who's experienced with plug in electric, but is also open minded about hydrogen fuel cell vehicles like this one. Also like the sleek futuristic interior.
Have to say too, plug in electric are a stepping stone to hydrogen or some other advanced technology. Battery EV's have so many batteries which are often mined in appalling conditions, and those materials are finite. Then there's the end of life recycling of all those batteries.
When an hydrogen filling station is running on renewables and doesn't need tanker trucks to bring in hydrogen, it's wonderful. Those are the ones that need to be invested in. Less than five minutes to fill the tank and getting a wicked range is WAY better than waiting over half hour for crappy batteries to charge. I will never do that, it's retarded 🥴👉
So, at $60 to fill up divided by a 260 mile range, it seems to cost about $0.23/ mile to drive.
An economical car that gets 35 MPG and assuming $5.00/ gallon will cost about $0.14/ mile to drive.
Exactly. And the pump itself freezing up is a joke LOL.
And for the amount of energy used to make that hydrogen they could have charged 3 to 6 EVs.
Fuel costs in California average $6-7 a gallon recently
@@warrensteel9954 Provide the specs for that?
@@claudioklaus2642 : I was wondering if that pump would work in northern winter.
Takes 4:31 to fill the tank. You just got back some additional time to watch more Out of Spec videos.
14:03 minutes. That's how long!
@@LarsDennert makes sense to me
No one was pushing for this technology. Follow the money in political battery investments.
thanks 😂 I didn't need to watch the video because its impractical to have this type of fueling station at home where we all know it is most needed
Gasoline in d still the best option, but we have a administration that has been pushing for batteries. Follow the investments in mining lithium, creating battery cars and charging stations, and of course totally ignore over worked to the max electric grid.
If you're going to demand a alternative to gasoline, then hydrogen bests batteries by MILES (pun intended). Especially with the newest technology and solid storing hydrogen at half the weight of batteries
There's only two hydrogen filling stations in australia.
There's 60 in the US, nearly all in Califiornia.
The US is 30x more dopey than we are then. This is the dumbest idea that just passes away energy to try make a market for the fossil fuel companies who want to greenwash their gas/coal via making hydrogen from it.
Hello. I test hydrogen fuel quality for the State of California. My colleagues and I routinely visit all hydrogen stations in California and obtain samples. This is a liquid hydrogen station. This allows for much more hydrogen to be stored on site. The older gaseous stations only have a capacity around 100 kg. The liquid stations have a capacity around 1000 kg. The hydrogen is truck delivered and stored in a liquid state on site. The station then boils off the liquid into a gas and maintains the gaseous hydrogen at fill pressure. The vent is actually not too loud since the vent has such a wide bore. I'm guessing this is the Baldwin Park station. We haven't tested it yet, but it will be on our docket soon!
Mow THIS is a helpful post….
Thank you
@@tmiller64 You're welcome! Thank you for highlighting the technology. From my many conversations, most people I meet don't even know that fuel cell vehicles exist or what they even are. Feel free to ask me any other questions.
@@andrewadkins727 How many hydrogen stations exist in CA?
I built them! Hydrogen, CNG, and Cyro CNG! all dead ends! all energy Up Side Down!
@@andrewadkins727 do you know why some of the stations run out very frequently? Are they not operated as other gas stations? Do you know why the development plan for hydrogen gas is stalled? It seems that they are way behind everywhere installing those stations. Would have loved to get a fuel cell car but live in the country and theres no station around😔
I think, hydrogen can be a good option for construction equipment. JCB is developing Hydrogen diggers after they realized electric diggers wont even last 1 hour of work.
That’s not true. Diggers aren’t moving very far like a car does, so the workload is actually less.
Remember a car is moving 5000 lbs 250 miles. That’s a huge workload as compared to digging 200,000 lbs over 100 feet.
Another example of just how poor EVs work in the real world. They’ll never replace ICE vehicles in the near future. Unless they just want people to not go to work.
Diggers still do the same amount of work digging as cars just going down the road
@@jimsteinway695 Buy a coal fired car. Gas is the new dinosaur. My EV will pay for itself in 10 years of gas & oil savings. Solar or cry.
@@BioniqBob Ok, so you are selfish like most people. No problem. Now that we've solved your own personal financial savings - how about the rest of the people soaking up electricity off the grid to charge their cars, forklifts, trucks, etc. to save money on gas? They already have planned brownouts in the 'we don't give a crap about you' areas of California to offset the problem. It is growing, and for every cola power plant they shutdown and don't replace, the problem gets worse.
Everyone I know, including me, are all for green energy - but we can't just magic it into existence. We have to get it in place and 100% replacement before we shut down the prior source, and we actually need to be adding on top of it for all these electric vehicles that will be replacing ICE over the next decades.
Any suggestions for the people crying about Solar? The war for batteries that there aren't enough of to supply even the USA alone for power consumption right now?
I think people need to lighten up about nuclear fission and fusion if we're going to get off of fossil fuels. We're never going to get away from oil and gas for some things anyway for many more decades. There is oil in everything from solar panels to the composites in your EVs, your house, your office, almost everything synthetically produced has some amount of oil in it.
@@jimsteinway695 just add more batteries
FYI: All gas heat up when is compressed in a fixed volume not just hydrogen. Is not the expansion of gas that cause it to heat up, but compression. H2 is at a low pressure in the tank. As you add more H2 into the tank, work is put into the tank. It takes a lot of energy to compress gas. That is work. When you put compressed air into a tank, you are putting that work into the tank. If the tank has a piston moving on the other end, then the tank is doing work. Since the tank is rigid, is taking in energy, but not putting out energy. That energy it takes in becomes heat. One way to counter that is to pump in cold H2 to counter the heat.
All this work takes energy. Carnot (intrinsic) limits the amount of energy that can be recovered. If there is no mechanism for recovery - the amount recovered is zero.
Oh - yeah. Right - Let's just say stuff without checking it out.
This is from a paper by Siemens Energy USA - but what would they know :
Hydrogen has a unique characteristic that can present a
challenge for safe compression. Ordinarily, when gas expands
from higher pressure to a lower pressure, at normal
temperatures, it cools down. Hydrogen, on the other hand,
heats up when expanded at a temperature above its ‘inversion
point’ of -112˚F (-80˚C). This characteristic is known as the
‘Reverse Joule-Thomson effect’
@@tommidgley6811 Hi, can you please post a link to this paper? Thank you
@@tommidgley6811 always better to just speak from our a##!
Siemens Energy aren’t deep state either. They can say whatever they want to! They are not for us.
I purchased a second generation Mirai back in 2021 (like his, but mine is black in color), gorgeous car, but getting hydrogen could be a challenge at times, not to mention the price of hydrogen went up more than a 100% since 2021 (from $13.05 kg to $26.75 a kg).
True Zero really jacked up the price as it appears they’re a majority hydrogen supplier in the market, no market competition, so who knows, they might raise the price up again next month.
I love the zero omission that hydrogen engine produced, but against the idea of market monopoly by True Zero, sadly, I will have to let go of this beautiful vehicle next week. Thanks to the Toyota dealer where I bought this vehicle from as my salesman says that the dealer will buy it back from me.
You do realize your price means nothing to someone used to gasoline a their fuel. In addition, gasoline prices vary greatly by location and fluctuate throughout the year.
The overwhelming problem with hydrogen vehicles is it’s a continuation of the complexity of the gasoline car. And the pressurizing adds even more complexity. The simplicity of the ev system is only going to get better and cheaper.
I like the idea of this technology, But I live in Europe, and fuel is very expensive. But I also own a 6-year-old Diesel Ford Focus that burns so clean that the UK does not tax it. And I get about 55 MPG. Oh, BTW, it is no dog on the road, Higher to[p end that my Mustang had. I understand Diesel Fuel is cleaner over here, but why cant we do that in the States also? I still remember being happy with 7-8 MPG and $0.19 a gallon. I just do not believe we have to be so hard on ourselves. we can make much cleaner, more efficient engines if we really want to. but where are the Taxes on that? IMO
@@clintatk The Marai is not an ICE vehicle. It's an electric motor vehicle. The hydrogen fuel cell powers the electric motor. But you are correct that it won't work for passenger but probably for construction, heavy work, etc. It's a lab test in reality and it's also necessary with states/feds mandates for zero emissions.
@@tracys2354 To be completely accurate the Mirai is a hydrogen-electric hybrid. It may remove the complexity of an ICE vehicle but replaces it with the complexity of said hybrid.
As a college student training to be an automotive technician 45 years ago in 1977, my professor said he could envision hydrogen becoming the dominant fuel source for the transportation industry. I have watched with great interest the development of hydrogen technology ever since to see how it would all play out. Like the EV industry, large-scale public adoption will in part depend on having an infrastructure that supports the convenience the public has come to demand with fuel stations located nearby wherever you are. As I see in this video, the story is still evolving. Thank you for the update!
...I studied it extensively back then, did my thesis on hydrogen economy, it will come as there are so many benefits. The tipping point is using renewable energy ideas to generate the hydrogen through electrolysis, then use it for many applications like transportation, but better for when the renewables are off-line. The only issue keeping this from happening is cheap oil, but oil and gas will be depleted and this form will dominate - I guess another 30-50 years transition. (and interesting downside is the over manufacture of oxygen, affecting the environment adversly - so the oxygen will have to also be used as the oxidizer in combustion and not air) will be a cool wild transition ride....
@@wokewokerman5280 Oxygen is killing us...
Hydrogen Fuel Cell all the way!
Your professor was and is wrong. The future is battery.
And your choice of petrol or diesel cars is endless....
I’ve watched True Zero trucks come in to fill up the stations before as a Mirai owner myself (Aliso Viejo and San Juan Capistrano are my two go-to stations) - they actually truck it in not as compressed cylinders but as a cryogenic liquid.
As for that vent, yes that is what it’s for - the reason why it’s that high up is to take advantage of the fact that hydrogen is lighter than air. When excess gas is let out of that vent, it escapes the atmosphere and just floats off into space.
Nothing is TRUE ZERO just a virtue signaling name.
Plot twist,
Hydrogen is similar to carbon monoxide in that it acts as an indirect greenhouse gas through its effect on hydroxyl (OH) radicals. By reducing the levels of OH in the atmosphere, hydrogen increases the lifetime of some direct greenhouse gases, such as methane. So hopefully not much escapes..
It does not float off into space.... we have gravity lol. It definitely stays in our atmosphere.
@@marcdeboer1280 free hydrogen escapes quite readily from Earth's atmosphere. That's why most atmospheric hydrogen left at this time is bound chemically (water vapour, etc). It's too bad they can't have a pilot light or something to flare off that gas, as this will become a larger problem if this tech ever became dominant.
Hi Kenny. I’m in Dana point and getting my mirai tomorrow 🙂
I think you need to attach the filling probe BEFORE pressing the fuel grade button on the dispenser
And learn to read the on screen instructions..
When there's a line waiting to fill up, if you're the 3rd car, you will have to wait while the nozzle warms up. I wouldn't be surprised if that took at least 15 minutes.
The fuel up time is actually better than I thought it would be. Your average gas pump does about 7 to 9 gallons a minute. So, you're looking at 2 to 3 minutes to fill up a standard car.
7:48
Process of hydrogen produsing is so simple, that in future every home will have own ministation.
Building a hydrogen station costs "$1.9 million in capital (median capital cost of $1.9 million)".
Compare that to EV charging stations:
"Electric vehicle charging stations can come in Level 1, Level 2, and DC fast charging types. The cost of an electric vehicle charging station can range from $300 to $100,000"
Hydrogen fuel is not the future and generating it requires a lot of energy. This is not environmentally friendly at all.
"Today, about 95% of all hydrogen is produced from steam reforming of natural gas. Learn more about: Natural gas reforming. Coal gasification."
@@arturmedia I mean individual (for one family) small hydrogen generator. There a lot of types of it on youtube. Just try to find it
@@arturmedia🤦♂️
I used to drive a CNG van at work. I remember a couple of years ago when waiting at the pump. It was about -20° F and the van in front of me was filling up when all of a sudden the tank ruptured. Fortunately, no one was injured.
Sacrifice for Climate which is changing, do not eat beef, do not breathe out co2, do not take shower, do not fly plane, stop all ships....
@@ellau5850 Yep, I won't be sacrificing anything. I now drive a gasoline vehicle for work. My personal vehicle is also gasoline powered. The oly way to save the planet is to eliminate the WEF.
Only those people that fly charter plane need to sacrifice, only those billionaire with 10,000 square feet houses need to sacrifice
why pressurize it?
Ovshinsky developed a tank that ran his Prius hybrid for years.
Solid hydride absorbs the H2 into a normal gas tank.
Look uo Stanford Ovshinsky the self taught engineer with 300+ patents....
@@brianjones7660 Did big oil buy his patent to hide it so they can continue to push gasoline?
You need to fillup in the same spot if someone just filled up in front of you. I believe that station needs to repressurise and will make you wait 15min before you can get 4.5 min fill again.
0:08 Hear are the two big questions every one should be asking about Hydrogen, being a viable fuel for the future, and they are
How much energy in total did the processes take to
1. disassociate the hydrogen from water ?
2.Compress the disassociated Hydrgen into a suitable vessel for transport ?
I'm pretty sure its more energy than you can recover from burning it, or converting it directly back to electricity even using the most eficient fuel cell technology available. Remember,
Energy is neither created nor destroyed. It's simply converted from one form to another, also there are conversion efficiencies that are not ideal through the processes and because of this there will be losses in the form of heat along the way so either solar, wind or nuclear electrical energy would be required for truly green Hydrogen.
Thinking back to the early conversations around EVs, I'm looking forward to the coming advances in hydrogen. The current state of the tech seems to be more geared towards industrial/freight uses, but if the refueling process (namely, the connecting/disconnecting the hose) and the ability to cheaply and cleanly process the hydrogen advance enough, I'd much prefer a hydrogen car to an EV. I wouldn't be able to charge it at home, but I can't do that with my current car.
Well this it is an EV, It's a hydrogen fuel cell (like a EV/Hydrogen hybrid). But I am excited to see if true Hydrogen cars will ever be practical. The Yamaha hydrogen engine sounds awesome!
@@quattrocity9620 They should honestly make it both ways where you get get hydrogen refueled but also have a plug in outlet charge port for EV.
@Karl with a K welp, gas is a explosive/flameable materials too
@ What will be the end result?
Thorium Fueled is the future
I noticed you did not highlight the cost. From what I saw, it was about $60 for the hydrogen used for the 300 miles?
So essentially it’s same as ICE car then at today’s petrol prices? NO thank you.
Thats the next video. It should be 1.00 a gallon.
I was actually interested in the actual cost for this fill up and the $/per mile breakdown. It's available but the station can't produce the hydrogen without electric power. At least you can have some emergency gasoline or diesel safely stored at home when electricity isn't available at these stations during a power grid outage or crisis such as a a earthquake, hurricane, or typhoon.
You can even store power for your EV and even make a little yourself in case of an outage compared to hydrogen.
They could have a real winner here. It's like a master piece puzzle coming together..solar panels/wind farms/dam power constantly charging huge batteries that power the electricity needed to create the hydrogen out of the air and put into tanks as fuel for cars!!
License the technology in Tesla cars to recharge the battery from different motions such as breaking.
We can achieve the perfect car! It's not a full electric car either like Tesla, I certainly believe we will get to perfect hydrogen cars BUT, it will be a consortium of technologies to achieve it, hopefully the techs necessary to complete the perfect car come soon..
backup generators at the station
@@h8GW I can also dump my old EV batteries into the ocean to help kickstart new coral reefs!
@@neal-stewart834 include solar panels
Thank you for giving live demonstration of the use of hydrogen as a fuel for the daily usage such as driving a vehicle.
You missed showing the sticker inside the filling door which displays an expiration date. After that date, you are not allowed to fill the vehicle without replacing the hydrogen components so it's basically an expiration date for the car.
aaronw • 😂🤣😂 Garbage technology!
So you get more extra car parts of the whole system, you use the grid electricity to create hydrogen, the hydrogen is used in the fuel cell to create electricity again to power the electric motor = two wasteful energy conversion processes = the idiotic hydrogen car.
What if you just use the grid electricity to charge a car battery to power the electric motor = one economical energy conversion process = the electric car? 🙄😏🙂
@@mikel4879 Exactly. Hydrogen is a bitch to deal with, just look at how many scrubbed rocket launches there are due to leaks. It embrittles metal and leaks through everything. Its volumetric density is quite low compared to traditional fuel. Transporting it is also expensive. You can't use traditional pipelines due to embrittlement, and the only way to transport it in a big enough quantity is to cryogenically freeze it to 20K, which takes a lot of energy. It takes a ton of energy just to deal with hydrogen. Electricity is easy by comparison. The only reason it's priced as low as it is is due to the fact it's created from natural gas, a process limited to no more than 70% theoretical efficiency with a CO2 biproduct. Only 2% of hydrogen comes from water. Then the HFC stack is around 60% efficient at best. Not only do you need to deal with hydrogen, but the HFC system needs to do a lot more to filter the air than a traditional car. They can't handle pollutants like NOx or any sort of dirt. The PEM membrane also degrades over time as platinum is lost.
how long expiration do those components typically have? i drive biogas (methane) vehicles at work and the expiration on those components there basically means the scraping of the vehicle so essentialy if u have a 10 year old car with those expired u can basicaly throw the otherwise good car into a landfill..
biogas is also another name for natural gas used by the companies here..
@@tomwolf2603 I think for hydrogen cars it's 14 years from the date of manufacture. Hydrogen is hard on components, especially metal where it causes embrittlement. Hydrogen molecules are so small they basically seep through everything.
@Tim Rock-It Saunders You're clueless if you're comparing hydrogen to propane. Hydrogen is VERY different in almost all respects. First of all, hydrogen embrittles metal and is highly reactive, but propane is not. Due to the hydrogen molecule's small size, it seeps through virtually all materials. Propane does not. You're also dealing with extremely high pressures with hydrogen (7500-10,000PSI) whereas propane remains liquid at relatively low pressures (100-200PSI). Propane can easily be contained in steel tanks. Hydrogen cannot since it embrittles steel.
HFC vehicles also require batteries. Fuel cells cannot be ramped up and down quickly. Fuel cell stacks also have a limited lifetime. The PEMFC membrane degrades. After 5000 cycles, for example, the Mirai has lost 60% of the electrochemical surface area in the fuel cell. (www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0306261919319786).
Hydrogen filling stations are also very expensive. Unless they liquify hydrogen at 20C above absolute zero, they can only handle between 50-67 cars per day. The cost of a hydrogen filling station is around $2M. The cost of a Tesla supercharger stall is under $50K. Hydrogen is not very dense volumetrically, so it is very expensive to transport significant quantities to many locations. The equipment needed at a filling station is and always will be expensive. There's no way to avoid the cost of compressors and cooling equipment.
And yes, hydrogen leaks are very much a thing. There have been numerous fires at hydrogen filling stations. Hydrogen leaks. Just look at how many rocket launches have had to be scrubbed due to hydrogen leaks, most recently with the SLS.
And hydrogen also presents a big problem for the environment. If 5% of it leaks, not an unreasonable amount, it will significantly interfere with the breakdown of methane in the atmosphere, a very potent greenhouse gas. Hydrogen interacts with OH radicals in the atmosphere that would otherwise break down methane.
The only reason there are any hydrogen filling stations is due to heavy subsidies. Hydrogen vehicles are also significantly more expensive than BEV vehicles.
And as far as batteries breaking down? There are plenty of Teslas hitting 300,000 miles on their original battery packs.
The cost of operating a HFC vehicle always will be significantly more than the cost of a BEV. Electricity is virtually everywhere and BEV vehicles are very efficient in how they use it. The cost of batteries has also dropped significantly and continues to fall rapidly. BEVs can already drive to most places in the country and the infrastructure is expanding rapidly. The only advantage a HFC vehicle has is that it can be filled in 7 minutes. It can't be charged at home, and filling it costs significantly more than charging a BEV, some of which can be charged to 80% in 20 minutes and that time is dropping.
Wow, that was impressive and fast. Of course, the main benefit of a hydrogen engine is that the only waste "exhaust" is water (apart from a trace bit of nitrogen oxide when oxidation occurs at normal environmental temperatures). So 300 miles with no carbon waste and only water generated- that is what makes this fantastic!
There is no nitrogen oxide. It is not an engine it's a fuel cell that generates electricity with an working temperature 80-100C
False, as most hydrogen stations need their fuel delivered via... you guessed it... ICE/diesel trucks. Worse, the hydrogen is either produced as an impurity removed during fossil fuel refinement or generated through electrolysis via the standard electric grid unless you're somehow using a producer that has verifiably committed to using 100% renewable power.
At the absolute best, it's no cleaner AND less efficient than an EV charging from your own home's solar or some other renewable power source. But as of today, the best-case scenario is basically nonexistent for H2.
@@vaporcobra yes, really inefficient. BEV has tiny losses.
@@vaporcobra if your going down that rabbit hole, the majority of households get their electric from coal or natural gas plants. Solar panels are not zero emissions as the creation of solar panels requires a lot "dirty" processes. The only 3 viable combinations for the future without fusion becoming a thing, is Nuclear plants with electric cars , or Hydro cars with local Electrolysis systems, which need to be powered by nuclear. If your not a fan of Nuclear then Solar Satellite network in orbit, would be the best bet for a runner up in clear energy. H2 will probably lose out to EVs as people get scared with the concept of Hydrogen being unsafe due to airships blowing up in the1930s, people perception matters more than the actual science and stats in the fearmongering world of environmentalist Doomer land.
@@vaporcobra it all has to start somewhere. Any amount of carbon generation from society is a good thing. One step at a time.
You had problems with the pump because you didn't follow the instuctions. It says to connect it to your car. You try but fail and then see a flashing light so you select your grade before you have it successfully connected. LOL. Just do what the pump tells you and it will work better.
Usual mistake made by impatient people -, as they say "when all else fails read the instructions!" 😄
Don't have any problems filling up my 05 civic 👍👍👍👍
Speed to fill is nice, but it's really only an advantage on road trips. And that advantage comes with a real cost premium.
Typical pressurized tanks have a 'shelf life' before needing to be recertified or replaced. I would be interested to know the service life of the H2 tank.
In the 2016 Mirai, it was 15 years. Not sure about the new one.
How about the life of *the fuel cell* ?
From Energy.gov (US)
"DOE has set ultimate targets for fuel cell system lifetime under realistic operating conditions at 8,000 hours for light-duty vehicles,"
Note that's ULTIMATE" targets and depends on factors including atmospheric conditions (temperature, air and fuel contamination) and "dynamic load cycles" that result in stresses on the chemical and mechanical stability of the fuel cell system materials and components"
In other words you may be wondering after you have a "fender bender" if a fuel line or connection was "stressed" to the point it may fail in future..... 🤔
.
And, "dynamic load cycles"?
The more you use it, the more stress.
They're using carbon tanks, but look for hydrogen stored in solid form that's just being developed.
@@ronkosanovich6450 you can store hydrogen long term or transport it in pipelines as ammonia which is just 3 hydrogen atoms and one nitrogen. they're even working on engines that burn it without having transform it back into hydrogen.
@@anthonyrowland9072 Honestly, it's kinda awkward seeing people complain about what is, instead of realizing that those challenges are already in consideration and being actively developed to be eliminated. Do we still have horse-driven trams running through the cities? I don't think so... so why people want to volunatrily blind themselves towards possibilities, I do not know.
With Hydrogen pumps, the important question is how long does it take an immediately following car to fill up. Reportedly, this can be ~20 minutes, if the pump does not get rest periods to rebuild storage tank pressure.
wanted to write exactly this. people dont understand anything about how it works and take "best case" scenarios and run with it. lol. hydrogen will not become the standard at large scale. i dont see any alternative to electric battery cars for the next 1-2 decades.
I have refueled right after someone never been a problem
@@manika8248 same Station same nozzle? Thanks for writing your expierience maybe iam outdated
@@12P14D22C You need to go back to school. Not to put too fine a point on it. There is only one reason we havent been using hydrazine since 1920. There is your clue, now research it and stay away from the trunkated youtube vids that show a lot of shortcuts without true science.
@@wjgoh653 nah there are more then one. First its the hardest gas to safe. It goes through alot of materials like its nothing. Making ot very hard to store. Also the way to create it is very inefficient. So even if we had a perfect engine that transforms 100÷ into kinetic energy it would still be a hard sell. There is more but These 2 are enough to Show that u dont know enough to be that bossy.
Have a good day.
Did you ever do a breakdown comparison of hydrogen vs. gas cost for the miles you drove and what you had to pay?
Real rough calc, it was ~$60 usd to fill and he said the car projected range of 260 miles.
@@Got-Ash dang that seems a bit expensive. i drive a 2019 camry xse and i get an average of 480 miles with 14.5 gallons of gas. average gas price is about 4.30, so i spend about~$60 for a full tank. mind you, the 480 miles are mainly highway miles
How much of that cost was road tax or whatever other taxes have been put in place?
The cost seems incredibly high for a fill-up.
fou mentioned cost at the beginning of the video, but didn't say how much at the end. Also, it would seem to me that the amount of gas that would fit into the tank would vary depending on the ambiant temperature, as at a given pressure, the density varies with temp.
He was too bizzy blithering nonsense to let us know the cost, which of those watching only 100% want to know. Undid subscribing.
I want a plug-in hybrid hydrogen/ battery car. Considering propulsion is electric in a hydrogen car, and there is a small battery as well, just increasing battery size to give 50 to 60 miles of plugin range, before hydrogen tank kicks in would be great. Use plugin power for daily commute and hydrogen for longer trips.
if only there was a refueling station...
I do believe they have that, just for the purpose of regenerative braking. I don't think they can "back-feed" a fuel cell, to store energy. The battery isn't huge, but rather like a Toyota Prius, with a range of about 5 miles. With those huge Hydrogen pressure cylinders, there's no space for a big battery.
Please correct me if this is no longer an issue, but my understanding was that a further limitation was the pump needed to repressureize between fills - and that took something like 20 minutes - rending the pump pretty useless if you had a line of folks wanting to fill up. Again, let me know if they’ve overcome this. I’d be interested to know.
Hydrogen is too sensitive to ambient temperatures the biggest problem the General Motors has been having is to deal with sub-zero weather and then tropical weather in order to make a car that'll work well in both environments
GM doesnt know how to isolate the tanks in a efficient way, Japanese know
GM is all you have to say
@@kene3431 Bingo!
EVs also lose a lot of range in extremely cold weather. They're not the perfect option either.
@@unitforce4163 tech should be allowed to compete - instead EV was decided. Perhaps it is the best tech. But I fundamentally object to a heavy battery system with a steel cage and tons of space around it. Those 3 wheeled tictuks in India etc... flimsy, lightweight, but run for miles on a 2 stroke.
Thank you so much, So I have question so now is approximately $66 for the full tank of 5 kilogram hydrogen of the Toyota Mirai and will give you only 320 miles or 400 miles ?
You did a great job to explain everything clearly in one take, which is pretty impressive.
Great job!
There were sneaky cuts.
20 cents per mile is close to the low average compared to gas so there is no savings there. I enjoyed this video, it was very informative. At $4.27 per gal for gas my Subaru Outback averages about 15 cents per mile plus my range is more. Unless money means nothing to you it will have to be economically feasible before people start buying these cars.
You know that there will be fuel shortages in up comings years. So these alternatives are best option as the fuel won’t remain on the same price.
@@maanimrankhan2265 stop with your doomer nonsense
@@maanimrankhan2265 Fuel shortages in the coming years? I think you're confused with the electricity shortage that will cause even more rolling blackouts.
Just purchased a Mirai last week and have done 1/2 tank fill up. Very simple and easy. It's the cost of the Hydrogen that is a question, but with a $15000 fuel card, that isn't an issue. i am sure H2 will come down in cost as the cost of Natural gas goes down as well.
Generally speaking-The 15k is just an incentive.. remember when it was 10k tax credit for electric? Now it’s 7.5k
IMO- The happy medium to all of this is hybrid
As an owner can you enquire with toyota about claimed 402 epa mile range. I say this because i want people to find out how to get closer to that and if they have any tips etc
Whoa. $15k fuel card. So if you pay say $80-$100 for a full tank, that is about about 150-200 times you can fill your car. If you commute 50mi/day (250mi/week) range and fill it say once a week then it is 200 weeks of free charging which is 4y of free charging. They're doing this very likely to get customers. For the EV, you get $7500 back + some states have additional EV rebates on top, which works out to easily $10k+ rebates back. At $10 for full EV tank, keeping same 250mi commute, you get 1000 charges which is 20y charging
@@fr9714 Creator does a video you get more perks than just gas card,but bare in mind this is still early days and advancements are being made in the hydrogen space but takes while to drip through
Lots of countries have national hydrogen plans,germany,korea and japan have more hydrogen stations but planning for many more and even china is hoping to have 1000 built by 2030 supporting 1 million fcevs albeit mostly commercial/heavy industry vehicles.
The other day big station opened in paris with electrolyzer on site,theres many ways to make hydrogen and the understanding of the physics,nano materials,economies of scale,modularization will bring prices down sharply
@Jordan Brown
The race is on. For me, the convenience of charging batteries at home most of the time, is pretty convincing.
But $60 for 320 miles of range seems really high, at least compared to electric. The same level of charge into my Bolt cost me $17 (though it did take an hour...)
Hydrogen seems to be closer to gasoline in cost. If we assume 25 MPG car with a 12 gallon tank, it can go approximately 300 miles on a fill up and costs roughly $5/gal * 12 gallons = $60
yes, costs a fortune to run a hydrogen car. get a tesla.
We had a Marai when we lived in Newport Beach. Two options to fill one of which was always and mean permanently out of service leaving UCI as the only option. Sometimes there would be 10-20 cars waiting.. Sometimes they were working on the station so out of service and sometimes we’d go around midnight to get filled up. The technology is fussy, the quick coupler connector was a pita and we learned pretty fast to use a glove to prevent ice burns . It was always super expensive but Toyotas card was great . Fueling stations were really limited to so cal . like you said ,50% of the stations were always offline .
Gloves anyone?
Sacrifice please for new toy
It needs investments
From what I have read many of the electric recharging stations are also off line when you want them.
For a truck with a giant capacity fuel tank to drive across the country, do you think a giant hydrogen tank is cheaper to build than a giant battery bank? 🤔
Its like filling a tank in a propane powered vehicle. We had one once (an old converted Ford) - very similar experience.
I use to drive for Schwann's Food services, which for those who do not know it is a home delivery of frozen foods. Anyway our Trucks used Propane, I hated them TBH lol.
Yes it all comes down to infrastructure. Currently there are no H stations in my state and the closest EV charging station is 20 miles away. Neither are present in my home town. We do however have multiple gas stations.
$60 with heavy subsidies from California here. There's no way this ever works out economically. Without that we'll never get stations across the US.
In my daily 4 mile commute to the freeway, I pass 7 gas stations, zero hydro, and zero EV chargers.
So here in a 4 million people populated city of Phoenix AZ, there is also no infrastructure.
Have the grid connection at home ?
Because almost every one does in the civilized world .
Most ev users just plug in at home chargers are only need when on a road trip.
thanks for the complete honesty throughout. the reason why i went electric for my snowplow machine was because
starting the gasoline powered machine each time was too hard for me. your struggling fueling the hydrogen car
reminded me of exactly that. pardon my ignorance but i thought fulling hydrogen was simply to put water into tank home
but after watching this video, for a person as weak as i am, i'm totally staying away from the hydrogen powered cars
You need electricity to make hydrogen gas from liquid water, then you have to squeeze the gas with tank pressure similar to that of rocket ship, so you need a very sturdy hose to handle the pressure, with electric battery cars you just turn up the voltage with a on-site transformer so you don't need a thick copper cable to charge the car, tesla even runs liquid through their cable to keep it cool to further reduce the wire thickness and making it easier to handle, so the cable they use to charge a semi truck battery isn't much thicker than their cable made for sedans.
He failed to push the blue locking sleeve forward the first time, possibly because it was frozen, so when he unplugged the filling hose to try again the system reset itself and he had to start again.
I haven't read all the replies. But, the rule is, as more cars fill up. It gets slower and slower. The nozzle starts to freeze to the cars nipple. Eventually, you'll have to wait for others to fill up and thaw in between.
TFL did a great review on filling up Mirai.
It took 45 minutes for him to get filled up.
Maybe at some point someone will have to come up with a way of warming the nozzle.
@@Rhaspun
Everyone pack their wife's hair dryer.
@@RhaspunSome form of an auto warming on the pump head would be smart with an auto shutoff at achieves temperature, Also with a way so it won’t over heat, Limiter.
Nozzle freezing is no big deal since all it needs is a warming element inside it.
@@incognito-yj4gu
Minus-300° coming out of the nozzle..
The hose isn't the problem. It's the nozzle tip coming in contact with the car's intake.
You'll need a flame thrower. 😂
Being from nj and a fan of led zeppelin, I remember the hindenburg. I can appreciate the possibilities of hydrogen fuel but I would want blast panels like the Abrams tank has with its ammo compartment.
I don't know why, but I was frightened the entire time he was filling the tank.
Gasoline is pretty combustible too you know. One of the main ingredients in Nepalm too.
Don't know if u guys ever heard of Stanley Meyer b4
Hydrogen blast is up a regular fuel tank blows at all directions unless you are setting above the hydrogen tank you are safe not so for gas tanks.
Hydrogen burned in the Hindenberg. Gasoline vapor explodes. Hydrogen is lighter than air and dissipates rapidly.
As an Aussie the noises are common as we use LPG here to fuel cars, mostly taxis now as fallen out of favour for average user as cost benefit fell off a cliff.
It’s about half the price, but at least 40% savings. Issue is tank inspections and other stuff. With modifications efficiency however can be substantially improved. Thinking about it tbh.
Yes, I remember your idiotic government promoting the savings of LPG use, and then doubled the taxes on it.
As CEO of a company that has expertise in Hydrogen, we recognize that H2 production, compression, transportation and storage can in no way even remotely compete with the energy density, stability and availability of liquid hydrocarbons. H2 is VERY reactive and difficult to produce, it is not available as free hydrogen in the atmosphere. H2 is useful for onsite production and use, such as in manufacturing cleaner liquid hydrocarbons, chemicals and fertilizers... as a direct fuel - it is silly. (Btw... that you actually considered that unit was a hydrogen production facility, shows just how uninformed the masses are - no offense.)
All it takes is electricity and water to produce hydrogen locally. So yeah, a building that big could easily be producing hydrogen. Of course 95% of hydrogen is produced by oil companies by processing all the virtually free methane they would otherwise burn off at the wells. Funny how a CEO could be so uninformed.
Might have missed this in the video but if this is renewable at the gas station the price seems pretty high at $60 for 260 miles. Will these prices go down after the equipment is paid for? I've never even heard of hydrogen cars before so this is extremely interesting just trying to do the math on cost of travel.
He doesn't know. This station recieved hydrogen in liquid form by trucks, and guess what runs those trucks. ☹️
Yea it’s cool it’s fast but electric cost like 20 percent off that
At the current price of gas the price is equal. Gas will only go up in price, and Hydrogen will only go down as technology advances. Green Hydrogen is the future, no pollution.
@@onequestion2059 I'm just wondering when it's only hydrogen power then what stops the same companies from hiking up that price?
No it won't. Gas prices stay low because we the ppl demand it. There aren't enough ev or hydrogen cars (or tree huggers) to over power the masses with gas cars.
And yes big oil will become big hydrogen if it is the only choice.
When the numbers are good with alternative fuels ppl will transition to them. No amount of environmental bull shit is going to help. In fact it hurts the argument for them. If there is 1 thing most ppl know it's that the movement is full of shit and lie constantly.
Thanks this was quite informative. I believe you should have started the stopwatch earlier, like when you pulled up to the pump, because all the jerking around with cards and nozzles is part of the filling experience... especially if you hope to compare the time to fill with other fuels or with a tesla supercharger, for example.
wrong
Yep. The person in line behind you when filling has to wait for the complete proccess, not just the actual fill time. Timer starts when you put it in park, doesnt stop until you pull away. Anything else is simply obvious propoganda.
@@apexcrazyful How is it "obvious propaganda"? He was documenting the entire process slowly so the audience could understand it fully? He ordinarily wouldn't go that slow. Everyone's fill times, no matter the fuel type, would vary due to any number of variables in the transaction, including payment processing. The only constant that can be measured in any fill situation is when you're allowing the pump to do the work.
The length of the video is kind of the timer. Just edit out a couple mins of his useless rambling and sponsor.
If there was a person in line behind you, he/she would have to wait 10 to 15 minutes for the pump to get to the right pressure, before being able to use it. That's an important disadvantage of H2
it really depends on how full the tanks are at the refueling station, I owned an LPG car, it's a car that ran on liquified gas IE: propane/butane mix.
When the tanks were full then the limiter kicks in, it takes 15-30 seconds from empty and I am on my way shortly after...
But when the the fuel stations tanks are running low then the PSI of the tank would take a while to fill, sometimes minutes as the meter clicks by slowly... so it is all about how much fuel they have to sell you
Hydrogen vehicles are fine if you live within a 30 mile radius of San Francisco or about a 40 mile radius of Los Angeles because there are a grand total of 4 stations located anywhere else in the State.
What about in Orange county and San Diego county?
I agree about the lack of stations. Orange county has a bunch too. San Diego only has one!!!! They are going to build a few more but that is not great at all.
In Europe it‘s a bit better in Germany and the Netherlands elsewhere you have practically no hydrogen filling stations and new ones are built at a rate of 10-20 per year (for the whole of Europe)…
@@rmcfoy44 Gotta use up all the money from fuel card within 6 yrs
@@karlgunterwunsch1950 I don't know if Toyota will continue with the Mirai but I am enjoying it fully. I hope they can turns thing around but without the infrastructure it would be hard.
does the ease of filling up with Hydrogen outweigh the burden of having to look for a working hydrogen pump station? You said 50% were working? Did that mean you were having to spend more hydrogen just to find a pump or did you use some kind of app to locate a good one?
As the technology progresses and methods of separating the atoms in water into the usable hydrogen get cheaper the cost will go down. As well as the expansion of the fueling stations. Its a new technology just like a flat screen panel tv was many thousands of dollars when they first came out you can get them for a few hundred depending on the size.
$60 for only 260 miles is very very expensive! thanks for the viedeo, I had no idea hydrogen cost this much.
Yes, because its hard to make, and there is not too many companies around that make hydrogen... However, it is expanding. A lot of companies switching to hydrogen powered vehicles like buses, forklifts, trucks, heavy duty vehicles etc. Matter of the time, when we will see more and more companies going to make hydrogen, and the price will go down. Matter of the time. Id say petrol and diesel powered cars are the gen 1 cars, Electric cars are then gen 2, and the gen 3 will be the hydrogen ones. I think it is way better than EV cars and better than petrol/diesel cars, and i would love to own a hydrogen powered car. Maybe later, hopefully.
Hydrogen is hard to make ? 😂😂😂😂😂 bro wake up
@@dymon1997I think they were referring to the tremendous amount of energy to generate it rather than difficulty as such.
It will never be more efficient than an EV either. So if you're making the hydrogen from splitting water with electricity, it's better to just put it into a battery with that same electricity.
You can thank the Fossil Fuel Lobby for that one.
Fun fact. Locally in sunny South Africa I can book at least 4 seperate average fare return flights between Johannesgburg and Durban (567.4km) for the dollar amount it costs to fill that one hydrogen tank. So for a 1/4 of the price you pay to travel 418Km's I can fly even further - Money and time saved! - The math seems insane. I'd say the green revolution needs better bean counters if they want to make it work.
what do you use for transport to get to the plane and when you reach your destination, typical dimwit post.
I think the main downside is that when there are fuel shortages it will be difficult for people to fill up shopping bags full of hydrogen like they do with gasoline 🤣 but in all seriousness, hydrogen seems really cool, thanks for the video. Definitely pros and cons to each so it will be interesting to see where things go in the next 10-15 years
Lol it takes nore energy to produce hydrogen than what we could actually get from it
@@Alab.A the same could be said for batteries - factor in power loss during the charge, and then the discharge to power the motor, we are looking at a 40% power loss.
They can still use shopping bags. The only problem is that the shopping bags will float away.
@@vintagethrifter2114 lol well for one you would need some darn large shopping bags (1kg of H2 gas at standard temp&pressure = 120000 liters ( 3170 USgal ) volume, you will loose some on the way due to its permeability through materials and how are you going to fill a high pressure tank with atmospheric pressure Hydrogen in shopping bags? ;)
I would not be happy sitting on top of a tank pressurised to 10000 psi (that's what he said, isn't it?)
I don't know about this just yet--I drove busses in Las Vegas about 20 years ago that were Compressed Natural Gas engines, they had more power than the diesels, and were much cleaner in emissions. We could re-fuel a bus in 5 mins or so--basically the same methods as the hydrogen. I think the pressure in the tanks were around 4000 psi. I haven't been out there is many years, don't know what they're running today. But I thought CNG powered vehicles were the way to go, And I think the conversion from conventional gas engines may be easier
Gas engines (lpg/cng) etc run much quieter and they have very little carbon blow-by which allows the engine oil to remain a similar golden colour in between oil changes. Much less engine wear and the oil seals stay in very good condition as they’re not getting soaked by dirty, black engine oil.
With 25 million LPG vehicles being used it is the way to go, less expensive and lower emissions. Dacia have Duel Fuel vehicles, LPG and petrol. The US could benefit from using LPG with lower cost and emissions.
I’d certainly prefer the hydrogen fuel to the ev , for people like myself who have to use a ferry to get to family then stopping for 5 minutes is something that we have to do anyway so filling up whilst my wife has her comfort break instead of having to hang around for the ev to charge seems like my preferred choice
Most BEV owners simply charge at home and never go to public stations.
I have owned 2 EVs since 2014 charging the majority of the time off a 110 plug …. I recently upgraded to a level 2 charger Jan 2022 as I plan to get a 3rd EV for my son
I prefer fueling at home
@@MarvinFontanilla so glad everyone has the option of just staying home while the rest of us have jobs.
@@roboteen overnight? You sleep right?
Try to fuel 4 cars in a row. ..
Does not work! No pressure.... Always showing one car.... May be because there are and will not be more hydrogen cars
Cost? The latest batteries from CATL and BYD charge really fast. But I think charging time is a red herring, because I charge overnight. The convenience factor with hydrogen is really poor.
The same range concept applies to internal combustion engines as well. Want more range out of your tank of gas, go easy on the throttle ...
And... don't tow anything, use your A/C, drive uphill or plow snow.
Definitely fills faster than an Electric. But the downsides are too high - it seems to cost about twice as much as Gasoline (compared to Electric, which varies but averages to about 1/4 the price gasoline). Plus, you can't fill up at home. Which sounds minor to some, but its actually incredibly awesome to wake up to a full "tank" every day.
How's your resale?
@@rodriguez3939 Used prices seem fine on my Bolt - nearly the same as new. But I've only had it a little over a year. Best thing is it's saved more on fuel costs than the car payment, even with the price of gas dropping.
Buying a hydrogen storage tank would be expensive compared to gas, but who wants to buy a hydrogen fuel tank? Once they have more stations and better methods to produce the fuel, it will be cheaper than gas. And the US would be the leader in the tech.
@@easyenetwork2023 Who wants to ever go anywhere and refuel? It's much nicer just not doing that. The last time I needed to stop at a charger was in 2022. I wake up with a full tank every day. Can't beat that with Hydrogen.
is hydrogen any safer then lithium batteries if it goes boom? we seen what happens to EVs when they catch fire
I like my 2015 Subaru. I paid cash for it new. It has been averaging 33 mph and I drive mostly around town. It only has 23,000 miles on it because I don’t drive much. We get some snow in winter here so AWD with winter tires is nice.
I will also stick with my Subaru AWD, however the sales people at Subaru told me that Subaru expects to go to all electric in just a few years ??? I will hate to see that day as I love the Boxer engine and will keep mine for many years to come.
What runs the pump and refrigerator/freezer ?
Good point, I'll bet it is electricity and how much electricity is unknown. Maybe enough to charge a BEV to 10%?
You always need to leave some expansion room for when it gets warm/hot! You can demonstrate this by simply measuring the pressure is in your tire, go for a drive of at least 20 minutes non-stop, and then check the pressure! (Be careful, your tire will be warm to maybe even hot).
I'm afraid that Hydrogen will never really catch on, almost everyone has seen pictures of the Zeppelin Hindenburg going up in flames.... and will always think of that whenever they hear the word Hydrogen!
Also, -40 agrees C = -40 degrees F.
Hydrogen is also extremely tough to contain, it tends to leak through most seals/gaskets. Small leak of hydrogen could end up with your garage exploding many times more violently than a natural gas explosion. Batteries are safer, especially the iron phosphate ones. I'd rather deal with a thermal runaway battery than a hydrogen explosion.
@@boxlid214
So, slippery little hydrogen, the smallest element in the universe, is going to escape tanks and seals designed to contain it, but your garage will hold it in? Durrrr. I don't think so, Jack. Even if you cracked open a hydrogen tank and let it all escape out into your garage it would escape your garage quickly there would never be a chance of explosion.
I'd say most people over the age of 30 remember learning about the Hindenburg, but kids these days don't even know how many states are in the United States or how many continents are on the Earth.
Not to mention the fact of the matter is the hydrogen had nothing to do with the Hindenburg coming down. The Hindenburg was made out of a flammable fabric and painted with a flammable paint and then was struck by lightning. It caught on fire, all of the hydrogen escaped into the atmosphere (likely contributing little to the flames), and then the Hindenburg came crashing down because it had no buoyancy. It was not a hydrogen explosion.
@@joshuaewalker Actually, she did Not get struck by lightning, what happened was improper grounding (those "ropes" that they lowered but no one got close to were actually steel cables to electrically ground the Hindenburg and tests have showed that various skin panels could still have a charge on them. Add in a sharp and sudden maneuver that apparently ripped at least one of her Hydrogen cells (big bag full of Hydrogen) so it was leaking right by where a wire stay was broken and -- -- -- !
Lol hydrogen is lighter then air and the tanks are fitted with pressure release valves in case of fire. U like Tesla which spontaneously combust on their own and even fireman can't put the fire out form the deadly lithium battery fires.
Pretty cool, it will only get better as time goes on
Thank you for a very educational video. Wow, 320 miles between a fill up on a hydrogen vehicle. That is an impressive travel range. Approx 4 mins to fill the tank, sweet!
Well they will have to come up with new tax's no won't they.and they will
$60 that about 15 mpg. I get 65mpg with my diesel in the UK and get 550 miles per tank.
Crazy expensive vehicle and crazy expensive fuel.
Only crazies will buy them
Cost to fill was $60.25 and he said that should get him 260 miles. You must have missed the part where he said they had stopped once before to top it off on their journey.
As an Engineer who has registered designs for compressed air systems 125 psi, pressurized water systems 400 psi and designed natural gas piping, this scares me. Our standard in Canada is TSSA which references ASME standards. We are talking 70 MPa or 10,000 psi, in the hands of consumers. Obviously this passed the ASME requirements.
$60.00/300 Mi=$.20/mile. About double the cost of an electric charging at~$.40/kWh. No fear though, the cost will come down, as the system develops. Great review! I've been waiting to actually see someone do a 'road trip' in a hydrogen fuel cell car.
Hyundai offers free hydrogen for 5 years or so.
The cost will come down..i hopes so. Maybe before I'm dead
@@silkemueller1391 It's not free, it's figured into the price of the car.
Still cheaper than than gas, and that's pretty incredible considering it has no developed infrastructure at this point.
Oranges and apples to compare $.20/mile to $.40/kWh. The accurate comparison is $.20/mile for hydrogen and $.045/mile for EVs. If you don't believe me Google it. But 20 cents a mile to not even a penny per mile is a no-brainer. I saw Carl Rove pull a similar stunt on Faux entertainment only Carl got his decimal places wrong for EVs in his comparison to ICE vehicles. ICE = internal combustion engines. There is so much misinformation out there it all depends on your bias about what you believe without looking up the facts.
No California video is complete without sirens in the background.
I really think the stop watch should start from the moment you get out of your car. To the point when you are done charging.
Or, when you board a flight to a state/country where you can find a hydrogen filling station....
@@williammillard687 touche’ @William Millard, even Norway has not generally adopted it and they are on the forefront of “ green.”
@@alexnutcasio936 One H2 station in Norway had a tank explode in 2019 - the shockwave blew out windows and activated airbags in cars driving nearby. That pretty much did it for consumer adoption, probably unfairly, but BEVs had enough lead at that point. They do still have Hydrogen in Norway, but, it's facing an uphill struggle.
@@brushlessmotoring yeah, I remember very clearly the two guys who had bought new mirai’s just a month before or whatever, it was kinda funny, they suddenly had useless cars as all stations closed for some time
Chris Bates
The stop watch should run from the moment the car door closes, to the moment you finish "fuelling"..... And.... Running to the bathroom, (washing hands!)
Buying the coffee,
Checking email while you drink it.
All of which you do WHILE a car is charging, rather than AFTER you finish "fuelling" Hydrogen, etc......?
.
Suddenly charging becomes less time intensive?
.
You charge "while you do other things" not "BEFORE you do other things".
What is the average distance to a filling station and what happens when the ambient temperature is minus 20 to minus 40 Celsius.
When will it be possible to fill up at home?
It never gets that cold in California.
The biggest pro is definitely the filling speed. The biggest con is, Kyle just paid $60+ to get to 259 projected miles of range. That's far more expensive than an equivalent ICE car (around $35 for the same mileage), while an equivalent EV would be even cheaper yet.
Too gad dam high
Looks like about year ago pricing. At that time I could fill up for $40 and get 450 miles with my Kia Forte.
This and EV make no sense.
Re-writing comment. No idea why it was removed. It's way too expensive now , for sure. Projections do put 2030 prices at $1.5 for 3 kg, which would make the refill in the video a $2.5 transaction. You probably have to add some fees and jazz on top of that, but it seems it will get a lot cheaper - if projections hold true.
It cost about that to buy cheap fuel in a 14 mile per gallon Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0!!
I am all for this, as opposed to EV. I cannot get my head around the worlds push for EV as opposed to this more environmentally efficient technology. I can only think that it is down to big money. Hydrogen needs more investment to make filling stations more readily available, pretty simple.
Putting a hydrogen plant next to a solar farm would make sense. The hydrogen stores the energy.
The by product is oxygen. That also can be bottled and sold.
BUT will The CA DNR allow them in California deserts?.
I am pretty sure it won't happen on US government property in California. And there is lots of both.
If you think EITHER hydrogen or EVs are beneficial to the environment, you are mistaken. The most responsible way forward are biomass-derived motor fuels. Not biofuels like ethanol or bio-diesel, biomass-derived Fischer Tropsch hydrocarbons. Maybe in 20 years the MSM will catch on to this fact.
@@warrenpuckett4203 dude... storing hydrogen is a HUGE issue. First thing it leaks. From the walls of the tanks. The higher the pressure the more it leaks. Second- its a bomb. As one of the most explosive substences any car crash can lead to an explosion. And any accident in gas station can take out a block. 3. The production of hydrogen makes alot of pollotion. Electoliting water takes a lot of energy and account for only 4%. Main production is from mathen gas. For every ton of hydrogen you get 10-12 tons of co and co2 and other bad gases.
More expensive and no greener than an EV. This tech has waaaay more potential then BEVs at this stage, IMHO.
@@13thCP every car is a bomb. Every gas station is a tectical nuke. Just think about 1 ton of hydrogen blowing up in a resedential area.
Glenn here. Just wondering what the total bill was for the fill up? I heard you say $60 but I think that was before you were topped off. What would your Tesla cost for the same miles at a supper charger?
Love your videos, THANKS A BUNCH!
Hydrogen cars have an efficiency of about 15-20% while EVs are +-80% efficient. It takes a lot more energy to create, compress and transport hydrogen compared to just directly use the electricity. This means driving a car with green hydrogen is at least 4 times more expensive than a typical EV.
How much for the extra large lithium battery costs from creation to usage 🤔
@@MyTwoCents2 AND DISPOSAL> DO HYDROGEN CARS CATCH ON FIRE LIKE EVs??? o they kill as many people because of the EVs huge weight????
Fuel costs for Mira's are zero.
@@scottinohio701 you mention the weight but not how its carried way lower than any ice vehicles and are far less prone to rollovers..
If you want to completely fill your tank you need to start with minus 40C - as like ALL Gases when you compress them they HEAT up!
At minus 40C you will end up with 80C in your tank - so it will be about 3/4 full - if you want it FULL then its at least half an hour
I spent over 5year designing hydrogen reformers and fuel cell systems… I’m a trained, ME with a degree from a top school and I’ll tell you hydrogen for transportation applications is an absolute scam. Fuel cells are great for the space station not for a car just use a lithium battery duh. Hydrogen is not energy dense and takes more energy to get into H2 gas from H2O liq than you can every get back sooo ya it’s a joke for cars and will never pan out. The entire H2 industry is only propped up by gov handouts. H2 gas can only be stored efficiently at really high pressures - so now your car is a giant bomb ya idk that’s going to work
And there we have it......
Then why even use lithium batteries…costs too much to replace, if it catches fire, you cannot extinguish it with normal procedures and it is way too costly for the roi. stick with ICE with diesel or gas.
The reason our governments spend so much propping up this H2 scam is because of successful lobbying by oil companies. I can only assume our "representatives" are getting a sizable kickback.
The benefit of Hydrogen is that really you can pretty much build the generators anywhere... so there would be minimal need for transporting the liquid over long distances.
Yes, but you need a lot of energy (electric or combustion) to produce it
Absurd amount of electricity is used to make even a kg of compressed hydrogen
@@diesel701ful Only 3 times more electricity than for an electric vehicle.
PLUG
@@Wirmish Yeah, in an ideal world, the energy would come from the likes of solar and wind power. I was thinking that its much cheaper to store H2 than electricity.
How would you fill a hydrogen car in the cold and rain without the nozzle freezing in place?
Could it even work when the ambient temperature is below freezing as it's not like you can wait a few moments for it to thaw out.
Every hospital in country that uses liquid oxygen and is able to get loaded in the winter and rain with no problems. Hydrogen should be no different. Also if it becomes more common and the infrastructure is expanded they will address some of the inconveniences now experienced.
@@gsxrsquid Toyota state in the Mirai owners manual
"If the nozzle cannot be removed after fueling, it may be frozen to the vehicle. Wait for the hydrogen nozzle to thaw before attempting to remove.
Do not pull or rotate the hydrogen nozzle
forcibly. Failure to follow these precautions may cause damage.
Refer to the Toyota Owner’s Manual-Refueling, for additional
Warnings/Notices."
Hence, the question is valid.
Waiting for a fill port to thaw in California is perfectly reasonable but how can you disconnect a hydrogen fill port when the ambient temperature is below zero?
www.glpautogas.info/documentos/HOW-REFUEL-HYDROGEN-CAR.pdf
Well I think the thing that kills the hydrogen idea will be the price of hydrogen. Since there is no good way to generate hydrogen gas efficiently, the price of hydrogen will always be tied to the price of electricity. Plus transport. So driving a hydrogen car will be 3 to 5 times as expensive as driving an EV just for the saved refueling time on long trips. I dont think it will be worth it for many people....
I didn't even know you could even but a hydrogen car. I've always thought it was a fantastic idea.
There are at least 2 ways to power a car with H2, this one uses a hydrogen fuel cell; decades ago, the American Hydrogen Association bought a used rare Internal Combustion Engine with 3 ports into the engine instead of the normal 2, and made some modifications to the vehicle to successfully run it with hydrogen. They had fun taking it for its Emissions test and watching the technicians trying to figure out how their equipment had failed so badly as to be giving negative readings. They went over and explained to the technicians that their equipment was functioning just fine, they were just testing a vehicle that actually cleaned the air as it ran, because it was burning hydrogen, not a fossil fuel.
But very susceptible to Exploding when being Fueled!😮
@@hfc3249 And your gas car doesn't?
It's dumb
no@@certiPHIer just say no
Would love to know how long term reliable these fuel cell vehicles are and how they do in the cold and heat. Would love more information about these vehicles. I actually like this idea and would love more info and how far along the development is. Also would love to know if there are any plans to put up more of these hydrogen stations and what the roll out plan is.
@@GT1Vette Would love to see the testing and longevity data. I have read the studies published on some of the bus fleets in CA and first gen was mixed bag. They retooled for a second gen to address the issues they have had. All that data is only in milder climates in CA. I would like to know what the expected service life is like for consumer applications.
Mobile filling is used in marine ports.
so true. im pretty invested in hydrogen cars since Toyota CEO announced they will be focusing more on this
@@feero9680 These companies appear to be planning for a longer time horizon where hydrogen is one of the key storage methods. They need to start backing it up by planning the infrastructure and to begin deploying it. Tesla wouldn't be where it is today if they hadn't built out the charging infrastructure. CCS charging infrastructure is terrible by comparison and is creating problems. Infrastructure is key. Tesla created the software tailored around that infrastructure to make using an EV almost effortless and is only getting better as more infrastructure is rolled out. People won't even need the nav software once there are chargers on every street corner like gas stations. If hydrogen is going to play a central role they need to be building the infrastructure now.
@@Longsnowsm
totally agree with you
the other often missed benefit of H cars is the size of the battery. The Toyota can go just about as far (miles) as a Tesla with about 1% of the battery size. Battery raw materials are going to be an issue...we can stretch it 100 times farther this way...
True. Battery packs in FCEVs act more like a buffer for temporal storage and deliver based on the vehicle's power needs, thus being much smaller than the ones in BEVs. They're the same size as those on hybrid cars, and could be even smaller.
So platinum to manufacture fuel cells won't ever be an issue then??
Looks like a pain in the heini. This system will have to get a LOT simpler for it to be safe enough for the average person to handle safely. In the mean time I am sure the tech's are working hard to smooth things out so it can be as simple as a gas or electric car/truck to fuel up.
I wish these companies could realize all they have to do is just engineer a little more complex efficient exhaust system on cars and we could reduce CO2 and gasses from cars by 90%. I mean seriously, it’s so abundant why would we not use natural gas or gas in general for cars?
money is the answer. With Hydrogen the power of many oil companies who rule the world now, would end. Also with proper equipment you can make your own hydrogen in home with help of solar panels for example. This way people would get independent and it’s not what government likes.
We have oil reserves only for 50 years.
@@ArunKumar-pu8gi No we don’t buddy not in the USA lmfao. Those strategic oil reserves are draining each day because Biden
@@ArunKumar-pu8gi correct. oil companies will maximize profit and then switch to another branch - maybe hydroxygen.
Green Hydrogen electrolyzed by solar has ZERO carbon emission.
New tech has been announced (capillary-fed electrolysis) that makes it as cheap to make from electricity (solar) as it is to make from natural gas, so green hydrogen is on its way. It might even be possible for the stations to make their own Hydrogen. There is also a more traditional design (crank, pistons, driveshafts) hydrogen engine in the works (very small and light), instead of the fuel cell technology you see here.
zero carbon hellcats for everybody.
@@anthonyrowland9072 Yep, zoom, zoom, zoom
PLUG
As a retired firefighter, I was taken aback a little when you stated that the hydrogen tanks can only withstand 80 degrees Celsius. Do you realize that that is only 176 degrees Fahrenheit? What happens if you have this car parked in your garage and you have a house fire. Temperatures in a structure fire will easily reach 1000F. Does that mean that your hydrogen-fueled Toyota will do a credible imitation of the Hindenburg? And what about the poor firefighter that has just used his Haligan tool to pop the lock on your garage door when she blows!
Everyone will say that liquid-fueled vehicles can catch fire too, but everyone watches too many movies. Vehicle fires are really pretty rare, and are quite easy to extinguish.
Glad I'm retired.
Actually, I heard that the reason the Hindenburg burned so badly was not the hydrogen gas, but the very volatile doping substance used to seal the fabric of the bag around the zeppelin's spindly frame. Look up the episode on Myth Busters where they debunk the urban legend of shooting high-pressure flammable gas bottles to cause explosions...
Yes sounds like they still need to do a lot of work on the tanks!
ruclips.net/video/hghIckc7nrY/видео.html
I think you've left off a zero on the number of degrees Celsius that a hydrogen fuel tank in a Mirai can withstand, but I'm writing that only because I saw another video claiming 800 degrees. Do you know this to be false?
Bless you for spreading the truth about hydrogen. Everytime I hear the about the Hindenburg as some kind of evidence that hydrogen is bad, I feel brain cells dying. It is literally safer than gasoline and batteries in the event of a collision.
You also need to consider the drive to the fueling station. Which makes refilling this car about 6 times slower than an EV.
In my country there are currently TWO active hydrogen stations. This car was an enormous failure.
“We are at a gas station”. - Yes in the literal form of “gas”
Thank you for this video! Fascinating. I see the potential downsides-given American history with hydrogen (Hindenburg) I suspect the noise associated with hydrogen, and the complicated freezing connection will delay widespread acceptance of these vehicles. Upside-can be filled up quickly similar to petrol.
as I remember the hindenburg sported a swastika on the tail fin so it's probably German at that and it burned also because they shalacked the outside with some kind of flammable paint
The first kid that gets his tongue stuck on a frosty hydrogen filling port will be famous forever.
Maybe they will make a movie about it with an older gentleman narrating it.
"But the bell rang!"-Ralphie
Famous AND RICH!
Total cost to fill up….$60.29 all the chatter with no real useful info
Thank You Jesus.
I hate the chatter 😕.
It currently cost me about the same amount to refuel my jeep cherokee. I get around 350 miles on a full tank of gasoline. The Toyota Mirai costs close to triple what my jeep was purchased for. I understand that the Mirai is clean energy but the price difference doesn't make any sense to switch over.
Yes. We are all going to run either hydrogen or electric cars because we have 30 years of fossil fuel left (which decreases with the increasing need..) But until then they'll milk us until they can. Pretty funny that we could create a car that LASTS and is affordable, but people are generally selfish which means they wouldn't want a car like that, nor do the companies. If you can buy a car that is slightly different, why would you choose the one that makes sense?
@@moo8698 we actually have 200 years of oil left in just texas alone, not sure where you got your data but in alaska theres 250 years or more.
Haha You clearly live in Midwest, gas is easily 6 dollars a gallon. I didn’t know they made cars with 6 gallon tanks haha
It wasn't 7 years ago that people said the same thing about EVs. Hydrogen technology is advancing very quickly.
@@onequestion2059 problem is that there is not many hydrogen stations and when I saw the price he paid and how much miles he will out of it I was like silent lol same thing happen to the guy in the vid
Wow! Great information. Obviously, infrastructure (for refilling tanks) is what needs to take place before people will begin buying and using Hydrogen powered vehicles. I'm guessing you are right about trucks being the first major users because their filling infrastructure will be more planned and assured for them, based on their regular routes. Maybe, if you're interested, you could give a short "thumbnail" on "the plan" to generate and distribute hydrogen to these stations? So far your video is the first description of hydrogen vehicles I've seen on You tube. Many thanks!
You need a company like Tesla that wants to take the risk to invest in their own network
@@s0012823 Hydrogen for cars is both very dangerous and totally pointless. Battery EVs are where it's at. Nobody apart from Toyota bothers with this nonsense.
How long does the next on in line have to wait for the station to be ready? Does the station have to lower the pressure and sort of reboot? Or is it ready again immediately after you've finished?
Im not sure less powerful people are able to handle this with ease. Especially in colder regions.
This is a good question
If a semi-truck can fill up that takes probably 20 times as much as the car then there should be no waiting for recharging.
@@zepm7184 Nope, the trucks are run at half the pressure. After filling up the station must cool down (as hydrogen warms up when the pressure drops during transfer to the car from 1150 bar to 700 in the tank). Be 5th in line and you should be ready in 2 hours…
@@karlgunterwunsch1950 isn’t gas supposed to cool down when it expands? Like this is the reason why any spray can gets colder when you use it.
@@testi2025 Hydrogen and Helium happen to have physical properties that in this use case result in heating up the equipment.
In the UK we currently have fifteen hydrogen filling stations, so unless you live near one they're a bit of a no-go for us.