In Defense of Rey in 'The Force Awakens' | JUST A MARY SUE?!
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- Опубликовано: 29 сен 2024
- A lot of people had a problem with Rey's progression as a character in 'The Force Awakens' and resorted to calling her character a "Mary Sue." I personally did not and believe the label is unfair. In this video, I discuss and analyze her journey in comparison to Luke's in 'A New Hope.'
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I'm hearing this Mary Sue argument a lot lately and my initial reaction is to wonder if people saw the same movie I saw. Not only does she have character flaws but her character flaws are clearly highlighted in this film. She's timid, scared, doesn't trust her abilities (until the very end), scared of change, and unwilling to make moves to change her current situation. When she finds Luke's lightsaber and learns she's the chosen one, she refuses to accept that responsibility. She turns down a offer to be a pilot for Han even though she's over qualified and wants to go back to Jakku and collect scraps for small portions of food. She's waiting for her parents to return even though she clearly knows they won't. I don't understand how people are missing these things. She has more character flaws than Luke Skywalker had.
You sir, deserve an award for that comment. Bravo. Slow hand clap. You win the internet for the day.
Mary sues can feel there are many marysues in fanfiction that are dramatic and sad so it's not uncommon ever since the term "marysue" was made, there are types of marysues listed in Tvtropes, like "god mode sue" "copycat sue" "sympathetic sue"" Rey is a mixture of these btw,
flawless actions is what makes a marysue, they never have consequences even when they do encounter problems, like how Rey released the tentacle monster she was able to take out the goons, and manage to save Finn's Life, though she was never in any danger, but when she is like how Kylo kidnapped Rey, she was able to gain powers and save herself, Finn and Han didn't even have to save her, if Rey didn't bump into Han and Finn in the hall she would have stolen a Tie fighter to make her escape.
and you know thats Bs when you say she has more flaws than Luke, Luke actually struggled to get to what he is, he started off naive like a child, he was taken cared of, even after his aunt and uncle died he was still babysitted by other characters who save his life multiple times, if it weren't for his supporting characters he would be DEAD
If it were Rey she would be untouchable, she would beat up the tuskan raiders, the guys at the bar, she would kill the Garbage monster etc, Rey's supporting characters don't even do anything they don't even help Rey one bit.
it's all about comparison, and where the scale weighs more, I'd say Rey weighs it down for being a badly written character.
Along with what the poster was trying to explain, you are correct that Luke was basically babysat his entire life. Conversely, Rey was on her own and defending herself for years, unlike Luke. I would argue that she learned a few things over that time as far as self defense and fixing things. I was re-watching this film last night and when Rey decides to fly into the wrecked Star Destroyer to escape the TIE fighter, it was actually a great decision on her part. Who knows the insides of those wrecked ships more than her? She probably knows them inside and out from scavenging them. There is still a year until VIII and I do hope that her backstory is explained a bit more. I believe that will negate any Mary Sue comparisons. Time will tell.
Rey's independence is admirable but when she, a 9 year old living on Jakku alone gets so much convenience is just bad writing, so I don't think it justifies her Marysue traits, shes still talented in multiple ways which marysues are usually known for,
remember Marysue from Strek's infamous fanfiction? shes also talented in multiple ways, but it doesn't stop there in comparison with Rey
they both save everyone's butts
reduces original characters to uselessness (Rey being the center of lime light making everyone look useless)
Always has to save everyone's butts
Multiple Men are interested in her
both are new captains of an iconic ship formerly owned by an iconic character
She totally is a Marysue, and it's not just Rey that is badly written, it's everything about the force awakens, even if they explain something to justify Rey's character it would obviously be something predictable, another marysue trait to add to her character, Marysues are often depicted as a secret relative to a previous protagonist from a franchise, fanfiction writers always try to make them related to main characters to explain why they're so powerful, so Rey is either a skywalker, the reincarnation of Anakin, or the "real" chosen one.
+John Goldfield Except she doesn´t perform perfect feats all the time like how Ren captured her and tormented he, how she was unable to save Han sole from death and finally how she was fell for finn´s lies. some flawless acts don´t make you a mary sue, being perfect meaning having no flaws makes you perfect, so your argument here is completely moot.
Luke is more deserving to be called a mary sue and deyning it is just self defeating ( He is not one). He had no formal, if not any training with driving complex machines and should´t be able to FUCKING DESTROY A DEATH STAR IN THE FIRST EPISODE FOR NO REASON despite being persued by DV, a better and more experienced pilot. Yes he got help from Han and maybe obi wan, but it doesn´t change much. Rey had help from her supporters as well, without the others, she would have never left her home and wouldn´t have defeated Kylo weren´t it for han solo mentally destroying him, Chewbacca wounding him physically and Finn protecting her from Kylo.
She is no by no means a mary sue and impling it is just bad criticism on your part, exspecially then when Luke achieved far more ridicoulous feats.
You nailed it man. It doesn’t matter though because people want to hate the character and look for reasons to hate her. It’s sad. She is a wonderful character and I can’t wait to see her in 9.
Thank you for the kind words! I can't wait for her in 9 too.
Congratulations - You just earned yourself a subscriber :) You deserve much more because of common sense like this alone! Great video! You were dead on! Rey is an awesome flawed character!
This video is worth 60 portions.
+YehThatRocks! Both of my In Defense of... videos deserve 60 portions?! That's 120 in total! Thanks a ton.
Rey may be a force parasite or succubus. She would be at her strongest in the vicinity of other force users, being able to utilise whatever abilities they have - against them. The only known defence is pure gold thread clothing or gold plated armour that covers most of the body.
Her innate force abilities are limited especially when sent into exile on a backwater outer rim planet where she poses little threat to other force users. if she is around another force user for too long she may indeed suck away most of their power.
Unfortunately for her she will not retain these newly-acquired powers for long and it will seemingly dissipate into the ether. It is unknown whether the original force user can claim back their powers. Maybe the answer is in the Journal of the Whills? However the victim's midichorian count is is irrevocably affected.
It is possible that she can also take knowledge from supposed non-force users as well... like a deep understanding of hyperdrive engines that seems to come out of nowhere!
Her job might be to bring balance to the force by relieving all users, of the ability to use it.
Discuss amongst yourselves...
I have a question about the scene you mentioned where Rey has a vision, the flashback sequence. You said a lot was going on, a lot of exposition and lore and backstory, and I do not dispute that. I'm confused about your next point, i.e. that Rey has all these experiences and so forth, but the audience does not see everything she does. I may have completely misunderstood your point, and if so please correct me. I say this with all due respect. Did you say that Rey has knowledge/information from these flashbacks that the audience are not privy to? Or did I misunderstand the wording? If not, why was that decision made from a film-making standpoint, in your opinion? In this particular case, in this film, this scene, would it not, at least from a logical standpoint, benefit by having the audience see everything Rey does? Sorry if this makes no sense. Thank you for your time.
I like your analyses. Come back to RUclips.
I like rey she is my favorite character of the sequel trilogy
SORRY
NO blindshot punk
Luke uses a TARGETING computer
He also states he has hit targets that size mutliple times. this is a simple argument and it has heart, but its wrong
delete this video
From a storytelling perspective, the progression between Luke and Rey can claimed to be similar. This is rather irrelevant, however, when understanding the criticism of Rey. This being that the character may have shown a complete disregard for the lore of the Star Wars universe. You mention that she may have had training, which is possible, and I think such a thing will alleviate concerns regarding the character. However, there is also the potential that she didn't which may be potential for a problem. Rey's progression in terms of combat proficiency is much faster than what Luke exhibited. You comment on Luke's first bit of force training, but leave out some key details. Luke's first experience with a lightsaber would be exceeded by four year old Jedi younglings in Attack of the Clones. This is the guy that would go on to become the greatest, most powerful Jedi ever according to George Lucas. Luke would have three years of weapon specific experience, and guidance from Yoda before being routinely bested by Vader. Luke's learning curve is rather pedestrian compared to Rey's. We will see if a suitable explanation is presented. Of course, Rey could simply be the best ever, and I will be fine with this, as long as they are consistent. This would mean Kylo no longer being a threat to her. Thank you for the video.
+Ryan Martian So theories are the only defense. A theory cannot debunk the facts
Quin Skew Theories start out as ideas. Many times, they end up being fact after proven correct.
Ryan Martian Theories are not correct until the person says so. So since Lucas did not say this film is cannon, it's not cannon.
+Quin Skew George Lucas lost the power to decide what is or is not canon the minute he sold the rights to Star Wars for a billion dollars.
Ryan Martian Sorry but Lucas is the creator. Only the creator is the one in charge of cannon
Rey is not a Mary Sue....
The worst thing I can say about this video is that it's reaching. I will give that this new trilogy is just starting and there's many questions to answer. When all is said and done if the answers are not up to snuff what then?
+longkuei Then we can all argue and cry like little babies and/or discuss it intelligently. I prefer to discuss things in a calm and reasonable demeanor, rather than screaming into a microphone like a lot of other videos which have crapped all over Rey and now Jyn Erso (a character in a film that hasn't even been RELEASED yet) for no logical reason. As you said, we still have two films left in this trilogy and I find it hard to believe that none of these "issues" will be answered or resolved considering how many talented people are working behind the scenes. At this point, we only have to wait. Luke's journey ended up being a great character arc and I have faith that the same will happen with Rey and the rest of the characters. Thanks for checking out my video and for the comment which was very reasonable and open minded!
+Ryan Martian Rey is a Mary Sue and if you need more films to get to understand a character, then the character is going to end up being horrible in the long run.
+Quin Skew did Darth Vader end up being a horrible character? Because we sure learned a lot about him in the second film he appeared in.
Everyone needs to realize that it's not about Rey being female, not like Luke or Anakin, or anything like that. Jaina Solo was a badass bitch. Abaloth was the strongest force user in the galaxy (beat Luke and Krayt). Darth Talon was Krayt's second in command and a goddamn badass (as well as my Star Wars love
Actually it kind of is, No one complained when Anakin won the pot racing as an child or how luke learned to pilot despite having no experience with it and eventually destroys the Death star, which is much harder than what Rey faced. Rey defeated a guy who was in the worst condition and like many fighters can tell you, even the most experienced fighter can be defeated very easily when he/she is not at her fullest, so beating him up was just as logical as luke destroying the death star, if not more so.
Calling her a mary sue is a self defeating argument and shows how little people understand stories, which is something you shouldn´t do.
in response to Luke's flying the x wing, I'm pretty sure han solo says something about it being like a crop duster on his farm, also his use of the force begins more passively whereas rey can immediately use advanced force techniques to interact with the environment.
The controls of the X-Wing are similar to Luke's Skyhopper. That's why the Rebellion had them for training new recruits.
Many planes in our universe are also very similar but that doesn't mean you can jump from a bi-wing plane to a fighter jet and automatically know what you are doing. The Rebellion was actually pretty careless giving Luke an X-wing when you think about it. Would a Rebellion commanding officer, right before what is arguably the most important battle in their history, just be like, "well he SAID he flew Skyhoppers before... I guess I should believe him without any proof whatsoever." If you honestly believe the writers didn't had a plan to explain Rey's powers from the very start, I'd say you are selling them completely short. That being said, if we don't get a reasonable explanation in episode 9, I'll take all of this back. I have faith in the people in charge of this trilogy and I don't think they will disappoint.
Well, he did have Biggs Darklighter to back up his story, didn't he?
From the wikia: "these airspeeders were often used as training vehicles by the Rebel Alliance, due to the fact that their flight controls were similar to those of X-wings."
starwars.wikia.com/wiki/T-16_skyhopper
And I do have faith that they will explain all this shit, and Rey's status as a Mary Sue will be removed from her, just like how they did with Anakin. But it's going to take a lot to explain how she was able to resist Kylo Ren's mind probe, yes, while straining, but not much (compare the scene to when it happened to Poe and you'll see what I mean), and how she was able to use a Mind Trick, a very advanced force ability, with no training (Even though that scene was freaking hilarious), and how she was able to wield a lightsaber expertly when all we know she was able to use was a staff (two completely different weapons, as anyone who trains others or has been trained in weapons will tell you.
Can you explain why Luke was able to shoot a torpedo through a tiny hole with a few hours - at most - of Force "training?" Just because a ghost told him to use the Force he was able to do it? The whole Star Wars saga in general is fairly absurd, but we take it with a grain of salt because it's science-FANTASY. This is the farthest one could possibly get from reality and yet some of us are losing our minds over it? Plain and simple, some people see a female in the lead and cannot believe she is capable of such feats, when if it was a male (like Luke) those same people can look past it? We all need to relax and just enjoy the first important Star Wars films since Return of the Jedi. We might be the most impossible to please fans on the face of the Earth.
lets compare Startrek's original Marysue with Starwars Marysue (Rey)
They're both talented in many ways
They save everyone's butts
Multiple men are interested in her.
Both are half unique being (Marysue being half Vulcan and Rey being a SUPER force sensitive being)
Both are the new captains of an iconic ship formly owned by an iconic character
Marysue with the enterprise
Rey with the Millennium Falcon
They're too similar to deny it, Rey is literally a counterpart to the original marysue, and ironically from StarTrek.
That's probably because when you give a female any sort of character depth and character flaws you get called sexism because real women aren't interesting in the slightest according to feminists
John Goldfield
"They're both talented in many ways" like alomst every character ever
"They save everyone's butts" Again every main character did it
"Multiple men are interested in her" The diffrence is that everyone wanted her for her powers and abilities so that they can rule the Galaxy, whereas Mary was loved by everyone. Luke was pretty high in the wanted list in the Original trilogy too, the everyone wants them trope is something nearly every main character had experienced one way or another
"Both are the new captains of an iconic ship formly owned by an iconic character" That is no real argument, such things happened in a lot of stories too,where the main character gets an device from a iconic character. Evenso, that doesn´t make her a mary sue at all
"They're too similar to deny it, Rey is literally a counterpart to the original marysue, and ironically from StarTrek."
I admit that there are some similiarites, but they aren´t anything major LOL. Rey had been way too often decieved, broken, and beaten to be even considered a mary sue and stating otherwise is nothing, but hidden chauvinism trying to slander the name of a character for their own ends.
was this video made before the Last Jedi? Because we get no help there as to why she has her force powers. if anything, its just poor writting and pretty frustrating.
smh, mayb she is just force sensitive that's how the jedi in the jedi order has their force powers, dummy
Remember kids if your a nice person you can beat a trained lightsaber and trained force user the first time to you touch a lightsaber you can beat someone who was trained by Luke Skywalker the greatest Jedi in the galaxy, She also has no personality at all
Lord Blue Balls she used the staff for years. And this is after he was very badly wounded and mentally screwed by killing his father, the light side conflicting him. Hell yea she beat him of course she beat him. Especially after tapping into anger . Do you not factor those things in
r u a moron, reylo only had the basic lightsaber training as the lightsaber forms were LOST IN TIME and luke was only taught basic lightsaber training, plus how do u even know, he was taught everything before he went to the dark side , he was only a padawan NOT A KNIGHT , get your facts right