The worst part about console is easily how the slightest bit of connections issues can make light attacks go from a manageable/reactable parry, to one where you are just playing a guessing game. Hopefully the dedicated servers can alleviate this
MixedReadings the only reason you are able to block/parry that is because he is required to go top, no one is parrying that in reaction they are parrying of a prediction. (Which isn't honestly the worst thing in the world for a fighting game usually but this is for honor and they have yet to really find their footing)
Bro it's horrible I hate that fact on console we suffer this And worst part connection issue is extremely common Especially for me I just can't wait for Dedicated servers
Hawk Stirke I believe a little separate balancing between pc and console would go a long way. I do like that console is more aggressive because of the greater difficulty to react. However I’m afraid that since console is already more aggressive, the turtle meta changes may work great for pc play but turn console into just a slug fest
My experience is that technically yes, most attacks are reactable. But the constant training you need to keep your reactions up, requires you to be playing the game a lot. If I take a week long break from games that need extremely fast reaction times, it takes another week to get them back, so I end up losing loads. So for new players or old players coming back it is unreactable, at least for a while.
Relic O' Justice it doesn't take a week, maybe a few games for me lol but then again everyone's different. I always take like 1 month breaks from this game and get destroyed when I get on lmao
Relic O' Justice I'm more zone based I've taken 1 and a half month breaks from this game and come back gotten light attack parries the whole time against a Shinobi. Then I'll come back in a week not even be able to get a raider heavy power.
the problem is some attacks just are too quick. try to parry shamans jump forward attack. you wont. but you can dodge. because figuring out which direction they are attacking, putting your guard there and parrying takes too long. these things exist quite often, like a bezerk faint. you wont parry that without training in specifically bezerk countering. its a problem
Freeze, thanks so much for these videos. You put so much time and effort into every one you produce. Your information is incredibly helpful to so many of us. Ubisoft should put you in charge of the staff that has no clue as to what they put out in many cases. You’re a great asset to the FH community. Thank you.👍
I really like how closely you looked at Glad Skewer. lawbringer's 3rd swing unblockable, kensei's hard feint ub and raider neutral zone also seem to have a similar tell. Thanks!
Alright, long story short, the average human needs 250 milliseconds to react to visual stimulus. That puts the gladiator, at 200 milliseconds, a full 20% faster than the average human reaction time. That sounds pretty Unreactable to me.
That'd be true if there would be no pre-attack indicators for the move and if it would come out at a different angle every time. Like Freeze already said, the animation is a dead give away, add to that it always comes from the same attack direction makes it easily parryable.
Average for someone who does not train their reflexes in any way though, which we do every day. Not that we are lol, but olympic level reaction times for men range from 0.166 at the high end down to 0.020
@@OzzyBlazeGaming Noticed as well later on. The real issue that seems to make it easy to parry is the fact that the stun from the punch doesn't last long enough to cover the attack indicator and parry window up. All you've left with is a well telegraphed 700ms attack
From what I've read, nobody has ever surpassed a 110 ms reaction time to visual stimulus, and a 90 ms reaction time to audio stimulus. I've never heard of a 20 ms reaction. I'm a gamer, and I've been playing games all my life. I have a reaction time of between 220 and 400 ms depending on state of mind and familiarity with the task. My reaction time is incapable of improving significantly, according to many studies. If I trained it, I might gain 10 ms or so. Genetics are a major determining factor for reaction time. Requiring a player to have a reaction time faster than 200 ms cuts out almost 80 percent of potential players on account of genetics alone. Few are able to consistently react faster. Not to mention that, if the move requires a 200 ms reaction time to begin with, the grace period will be tiny unless you are one of the aforementioned 110-ms-reaction-time freaks. So, assuming you can react to the move at all, you also need to be trained to make a decision and act on it within three or four frames. This isn't necessarily a bad thing. Genetics certainly give advantages and disadvantages to players in all kinds of sports. Some genetic conditions entirely preclude you from engaging - a dwarf will have a hard time breaking into the NFL, for example. But there's little room to argue that the highest level of play will be available to all given enough practice in a game reliant on fast reaction times. However, to add on to that last point: a lot can be said for prediction. I have a fairly slow reaction time, but good game knowledge, which allows me to be competitive in games like League of Legends, simply because I can rely on experience to predict. Therefore, mind games don't necessarily rely on reaction, though reaction certainly helps limit the guesswork necessary. Why is it that every time I write up a comment it turns into a novel?
You should take a look at the reactability of shaman's front dash heavy/bite/feint mixup. In my experience it's easily one of the most problematic (even if that may be affected by the wonky hitbox/tracking sometimes hitting you even if you react correctly). Knowing the exact timings in place there would be interesting.
Ashiraya S. I have seen people react correctly to it with dodge at the right time and holy shit the punishment is real the guard break you get from it is highly rewarded as you can even get it from dodgeing her left are right dodges
Shaman is the most broken hero in the game, I despise Shaman... I can deal with every other hero really well as a rep 50 Warlord, but Shaman... she just takes the piss, rep 0 Shamans beat me a lot.
it's the same as used in this one docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1wwr17AtTDFU3BZY_81axLVMKdHdNZuV0wGOb589VKgc/htmlview?sle=true# it's explained at the bottom
You did not consider different decisions that might influence the reaction. Meaning: normal reaction time for humans is around 240ms if we are talking about one action (mouse click when light turns green) but that window increases when you have different actions to perform, for example: left click if the light turns green BUT right click in the light turns blue. With For Honor is the same, you have 3 defense/parry directions, GB and other options other options. Regards.
oh nono, I didn't mean you with the "talking out of your arse". I sometimes come off as harsh, without really meaning to. there are also other things, like block stun (mentioned by snakezarr) that might play a role in this whole scenario. It's always a problem when you look at something in a more abstract way, without even having all the proper variables, or even knowing what variables are relevant.
Shinobi is straight up broken on console. The side lights feel just as fast (if not faster) as an Orochi top light, but Shinobi can do it from any guard direction. I honestly can't react fast enough to guard against a Shinobi that does nothing but light attack.
for honor simply lacks consistency things sometimes come out slow and sometimes come out fast, and it messes with your reaction. we need consistency. thanks for your videos they are super helpful and with super high quality as always
Hamad khalid i have strongly disagree here. I think we need even less consinstency, whit that a parry isnt just a trained reflex but an actual counterreaction. Nearly every other fighting game has this kind of variation which can make combos very surprising. another reason we need the variation is because for honor has very small movesets compared to other games so that with more or even pure consistency every attack would be memorized pretty fast and parried with ease
Im completely fine with different parry timing and it makes u learn how to counter different attacks. What I do want Ubi to fix is the inconsistent server. Like you can parry attacks when against AI but cannot parry the same thing against real people
great video freeze only thing i would suggest is maybe a key describing UB as unblockable etc. in your spreadsheet this info is most useful to newer players and they may not know what those terms mean fully
On console any assassin light attacks are too fast. You physically can not move your guard fast enough as a non-assassin to react between directional attacks. Orochi overhead light and zone is basically a 50/50 on console. Assassins health and damage output are also disproportionate when compared to other heroes. Assassins practically break this game.
Jaeger II not really. You must have really bad reaction time. I main lawbringer,valkyrie, and shaman. It’s really easy as i’ve fought and killed many assassins as lawbringer and valkyrie.
Nope, 50/50 doesn’t apply to me you go either way I will react, and if I play one match with you you can bet on the next match you try it again you’ll get parried, and yes I’m on Xbox.
As you said about the animation I keep my eyes on the raider's back when he throws a zone to anticipate the result. Also he is a bit slumped when he it's the attack that puts him oos.
I think the Kensei, along with a few other characters, can faint later depending on their attack. The Kensei's unblockable can be canceled after his feet have left the ground. I wonder how that would effect the reaction window. Great vid man, nice work on the spreadsheet too.
Me: Just finishing my for honor games on my barely functional ultralow setup. Let's warch a quick video. Video: Max graphics and perfect framerate. Me: Dear god how do i even hit anything ...
hey freeze, may i suggest something? add the animations from the defender's POV. that way we can get a more accurate view of how we, as the ones who will react, to said attack.
I'm a console player and everything you can react to on PC you can react to on Console as well with no difficulty. It actually makes you a better player reacting to certain attacks on console.
Can you make a vid about when you get a free guardbreak when baiting enemy into parry ( like unblockable cancel into guardbreak). Because I've played about 1000 hours of For Honor and I have had both occasions when I, played as Kensei, did unblockable cancel (not soft) into guardbreak and it landed, and when it didn't. Its really interesting topic. Thanks
problem is, it will never be consistent. Sometimes your opponent messes up the parry timing and your GB, that should've landed, will bounce off, because he is too far into the animation already. But I'll think about it. Thanks for suggesting it. Those are always welcome!
Overall, devs once said on the stream that heavy startups durations were matching with the heavy duration. And concretely, it should be considered that any heavy that is
Marks Župerka you also have to consider that you can GB a heavy if the enemy feinted it... In that case you could also gb a centurion heavy. But Orochi's top heavy is for sure un-gb-able if he didn't feint it and did it to react to your own heavy.
On console it's harder but on impossible you just have to predict what your opponent might do either from past experience with that character or just how often they use it. But when I'm really into it and only a couple feet from the tv I turn out to be low-key ass at for honor
Sometimes you react on time it's just some attacks you literally can't get out of range . I feel like you should have that option especially. Especially when trying to parry can get you killed,also side dash attacks are impossible to block from PK
it got incorporated in the "main" spreadsheet for this game. docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1wwr17AtTDFU3BZY_81axLVMKdHdNZuV0wGOb589VKgc/htmlview?sle=true# check the bottom it should explain everything.
Really? Gladiator's skewer of all abilities? I can think of a ton of other abilities I think are harder to react to then gladiator. I personally don't have trouble with it if I just react to the parry flicker. Not saying I'll avoid it 100% of the time, but thats with anything even easy counter guardbreaks you miss every now and then, but gladiator's skewer is one of the abilities that gives me the least trouble.
I want the devs to nerf light speed cause, I had this match as raider where the opponent will do nothing but only light me out of everything till the timer ends. And it happened
jea for me its mostly just the animation. thats why its so hard for me to even block a pk properly. the animation is really hard to see. especially because the heavy and the light animation are so similar.
Thats not really how you parry bait, only characters with really fast heavies will throw them on your guard if you feint like that. you'll have to mostly use feint into gb
Squattingturtle do the unblockable when they're out of stamina. Focus more on throwing them into a wall and getting the combo: Top heavy light Top heavy light. People don't use it, but it does more damage as centurions wallbang and hits often.
Feinting at high level play is different you party with a heavy right so if you throw a heavy and you realise it was a feint if you went for the party then you just press B and cancel your heavy unless they go for guard breaks then it can get tricky
In consoles especially with connections issues i'm not sure you have the time to react. Its more a guessing game acording to the characters moves and what you think the human player's style is. Anticipation more than reaction.
Warlord is arguably the best equipped in the game for he has nearly everything. Huge health pool Can ledge you from any direction Hyper armour High damage Long range attack Full guard stance that's actually useful Top heavy from guard break Ability to be either highly aggressive or full turtle Incredibly fast 50/50 headbutt Fast zone Making a mistake means nothing due to high health No skill required Guard break spam 2 warlords = unstoppable force General scumbags I rather play against shamans
That Wizard or you could just git gud he only has 2 chains so you could easily parry his attacks, headbutt can be predictable depending on how your enemy plays warlord and how frequently he uses it. I'm rep 126 on ps and I play all characters, nobushi is a good counter to warlord imo
Would be great if you could analize this but for console, i think reactions are too powerful and game changing on console in the sense that if you have very good reactions you have great advantage no matter how bad you can be in others abilities such us mind games or techs and mechanics knowledge, and if you have slow reactions you are in great disadvantage, not to say doomed, no matter how good you can be in the other abilities or how experience you are. And making this worst is the fact that all new heroes tend to be extremely fast, like Gald, Shaman and even Aramusha which unbalances console even more. What do you think about this @freeze?. Very useful info btw, thanks for sharing.
You asked for the same analysis but on console and then you wrote general complaints about the game being too fast for you apparently. So I just answered you that there's no point doing such a video since the reaction data are exactly the same on pc or console. I think that was your question, otherwise you might wanna make it clearer.
I get your point, but i still stand by both my question and my answer to you. Regarding time windows (ms) strictly, yes they are the same for every platform, but for the same window, console has less frames, this makes a significative difference in how the game is played. Besides the numbers, @freeze made a qualitative analysis about "reactability" arround this numbers but focusing on the game mechanics and my question to him was centered around this qualitative analysis.
Leon he said until they make kensei viable he has no interest in the game or something like that. Its strange when you consider the dude did insane things and he would beat the living crap out of 99% of the players with the character yet even he thinks kensei is obsolete. Especially after they got rid of the unlock tech because he used that a lot.
Specter _Of _The Stars I wasnt talking about the unlock exploit. I was talking about 2nd hit unlock to reach chainfinishe and one and a half circle spin etc. which the dude invented.
I get moves not being possible to react to can be quite annoying.... But not every move should possible to block based off of reaction. Does anybody remember how horrible the turtle meta used to be? The games to a certain point has gotten too far and gives too much punishment for how quick some attacks are at some instants but the game should make you think on what's their next move and try to predict and punish what they're going to do next so it keeps the game enticing
I find it funny how someone with the name “Freeze” is talking about things that are reactable, seeing a being frozen somewhat limits your ability to react to things.
Shugoki has the most useless unblockable feint imo. Everyone can just press space and then they will get out of it. and shugo is too slow to be able to guardbreak them so they can counter guardbreak. making his the most reactable.
Personally I feel everything in the game is reactable It's just a matter of training your eyes to the animation like now at this point I can parry pk lights like their nothing but still have a hard time with shinobi even though supposedly they're the same speed. Us console players have to have wayyy faster eyes then these pc players
It's just easier for me to parry everything from a shinobi because they are always overly aggressive but PKs annoy me so I just turtle the fucker and get them mad (I despise all assassin classes)
I'd say a big majority of the gane is good under the circumstances it was ment to be played, sadly latency exists and the Xbox systems havent been able to operate smoothly and efficiently enough to acknowledge certain movements\actions quick enough during soft feints, we see certain moves go past the feint window of opportunity before it shows them actually feint and it can throw you off alot, softfeinting gb's is the most noticeable when you know its coming and counter at a regular tine but the game doesnt tech it since the soft feint shows up too late, raider dodge and cent heavy soft feint gb has an extremely high success rate when they are unguaranteed rnow.. I've seen a few posts and friends disscuss this with me and try to decode the purpose but its ultimately internet simply failing to be a flawless invention in a tining based game, as long as internet is flawed, the game will be too
nah but in all seriousness: the consoles might have the same hardware, but to not be at an even furher disadvantage, people need a proper TV (preferably with a gaming setting) or play on a monitor and on top of that have their controllers plugged in. That should already help out a lot of console players.
What they need to do is balance PC and console differently. An attack may be just fine on PC but on console it's likely horrid. So the speed of some attacks should be toned down for console to be level with PC's experience. I really don't know why Ubisoft doesn't prioritize console when the majority of the community is there.
Orochi top lights unreactable? Lol no. Sorry dude but I play Xbox and frequently parry, block and get parried or blocked with top lights. Like every light Orochi does its easy to react too. Only low tier players cant do it.
ConceitedCynic This is a old comment but based on the results on humanbenchmark, i'd say it's pretty safe to assume that 200 ms window is unreactable and 300 ms is very hard, possibly unreactable for most people as well.
Warden attacks are relatively slow so it's best to keep your guard to the left when against a warden but orochi attacks are very fast and the zone is just pure cheese and the only way an orochi can kill a good player
Anthony Mercado You’re damn right about that. Let’s take the nobushi for example. I hate fighting nobushis because all their attacks are fast as hell and i do not understand the people that parry her lights and say she is the easiest to parry in the game. I don’t understand it at all. The next season coming out is all about reworking stuff though, changing things up with parrying, defensive meta (which is good!) because people turtle way too much in this game and it ain’t fun at all. I can’t wait for that, and let’s not forget dedicated servers!
Don't say high tiered pc players and shit on console, since most pc players would get bodied by console players. We have a much smaller opportunity window to react to attacks since our game runs at 30 fps, which means our reaction time is faster and timing in FH is key. Great video nonetheless.
The worst part about console is easily how the slightest bit of connections issues can make light attacks go from a manageable/reactable parry, to one where you are just playing a guessing game. Hopefully the dedicated servers can alleviate this
MixedReadings the only reason you are able to block/parry that is because he is required to go top, no one is parrying that in reaction they are parrying of a prediction. (Which isn't honestly the worst thing in the world for a fighting game usually but this is for honor and they have yet to really find their footing)
Bro it's horrible
I hate that fact on console we suffer this
And worst part connection issue is extremely common
Especially for me
I just can't wait for Dedicated servers
It effect pc also. Not as bad obvisously but still noticable
I don't think Dedicated servers will fix ping issues...
Hawk Stirke I believe a little separate balancing between pc and console would go a long way. I do like that console is more aggressive because of the greater difficulty to react. However I’m afraid that since console is already more aggressive, the turtle meta changes may work great for pc play but turn console into just a slug fest
My experience is that technically yes, most attacks are reactable. But the constant training you need to keep your reactions up, requires you to be playing the game a lot. If I take a week long break from games that need extremely fast reaction times, it takes another week to get them back, so I end up losing loads. So for new players or old players coming back it is unreactable, at least for a while.
Relic O' Justice it doesn't take a week, maybe a few games for me lol but then again everyone's different. I always take like 1 month breaks from this game and get destroyed when I get on lmao
Agreed. I'll spend a consistent amount of time getting my reactions down. However, the second I take a break, I'm terrible again.
Relic O' Justice I'm more zone based I've taken 1 and a half month breaks from this game and come back gotten light attack parries the whole time against a Shinobi. Then I'll come back in a week not even be able to get a raider heavy power.
Relic O' Justice after 2 games youre back at it believe me doesnt matter how long you havent played
the problem is some attacks just are too quick. try to parry shamans jump forward attack. you wont. but you can dodge. because figuring out which direction they are attacking, putting your guard there and parrying takes too long. these things exist quite often, like a bezerk faint. you wont parry that without training in specifically bezerk countering. its a problem
Freeze, thanks so much for these videos. You put so much time and effort into every one you produce. Your information is incredibly helpful to so many of us. Ubisoft should put you in charge of the staff that has no clue as to what they put out in many cases. You’re a great asset to the FH community. Thank you.👍
thank you very much :)
Totally agree!
I love the time you put in your vids, good job man!
I really like how closely you looked at Glad Skewer. lawbringer's 3rd swing unblockable, kensei's hard feint ub and raider neutral zone also seem to have a similar tell. Thanks!
BaxterX7 or soft feints from shaman and aramusha
Alright, long story short, the average human needs 250 milliseconds to react to visual stimulus. That puts the gladiator, at 200 milliseconds, a full 20% faster than the average human reaction time.
That sounds pretty Unreactable to me.
That'd be true if there would be no pre-attack indicators for the move and if it would come out at a different angle every time. Like Freeze already said, the animation is a dead give away, add to that it always comes from the same attack direction makes it easily parryable.
Average for someone who does not train their reflexes in any way though, which we do every day.
Not that we are lol, but olympic level reaction times for men range from 0.166 at the high end down to 0.020
@@PivotCyroy Gladiator skewer can come from all 3 directions my friend
@@OzzyBlazeGaming Noticed as well later on. The real issue that seems to make it easy to parry is the fact that the stun from the punch doesn't last long enough to cover the attack indicator and parry window up.
All you've left with is a well telegraphed 700ms attack
From what I've read, nobody has ever surpassed a 110 ms reaction time to visual stimulus, and a 90 ms reaction time to audio stimulus. I've never heard of a 20 ms reaction.
I'm a gamer, and I've been playing games all my life. I have a reaction time of between 220 and 400 ms depending on state of mind and familiarity with the task. My reaction time is incapable of improving significantly, according to many studies. If I trained it, I might gain 10 ms or so. Genetics are a major determining factor for reaction time.
Requiring a player to have a reaction time faster than 200 ms cuts out almost 80 percent of potential players on account of genetics alone. Few are able to consistently react faster.
Not to mention that, if the move requires a 200 ms reaction time to begin with, the grace period will be tiny unless you are one of the aforementioned 110-ms-reaction-time freaks. So, assuming you can react to the move at all, you also need to be trained to make a decision and act on it within three or four frames.
This isn't necessarily a bad thing. Genetics certainly give advantages and disadvantages to players in all kinds of sports. Some genetic conditions entirely preclude you from engaging - a dwarf will have a hard time breaking into the NFL, for example. But there's little room to argue that the highest level of play will be available to all given enough practice in a game reliant on fast reaction times.
However, to add on to that last point: a lot can be said for prediction. I have a fairly slow reaction time, but good game knowledge, which allows me to be competitive in games like League of Legends, simply because I can rely on experience to predict. Therefore, mind games don't necessarily rely on reaction, though reaction certainly helps limit the guesswork necessary.
Why is it that every time I write up a comment it turns into a novel?
You should take a look at the reactability of shaman's front dash heavy/bite/feint mixup. In my experience it's easily one of the most problematic (even if that may be affected by the wonky hitbox/tracking sometimes hitting you even if you react correctly). Knowing the exact timings in place there would be interesting.
Ashiraya S. I have seen people react correctly to it with dodge at the right time and holy shit the punishment is real the guard break you get from it is highly rewarded as you can even get it from dodgeing her left are right dodges
Shaman is the most broken hero in the game, I despise Shaman... I can deal with every other hero really well as a rep 50 Warlord, but Shaman... she just takes the piss, rep 0 Shamans beat me a lot.
Historically Accurate Black Shaman
She's just very tan.
She enjoys the sun a great deal.
freeze You’re shaman is dying of severe skin cancer if that’s a tan. Which means she’s a Biologically Accurate Black Shaman.
read that in a Scottish accent
Great vid. Definitely agree that the animations have a huge impact on the reactability of an attack.
Just spent time watching all your vids and will be using everything you said. The straight fast facts are very useful. Keep up the great work!
Would you be able to add a legend to your spreadsheet? Thanks.
it's the same as used in this one
docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1wwr17AtTDFU3BZY_81axLVMKdHdNZuV0wGOb589VKgc/htmlview?sle=true#
it's explained at the bottom
Once parried a Shaman jump attack I felt like a god...only problem was that it was the sprinting one
You did not consider different decisions that might influence the reaction.
Meaning: normal reaction time for humans is around 240ms if we are talking about one action (mouse click when light turns green) but that window increases when you have different actions to perform, for example: left click if the light turns green BUT right click in the light turns blue. With For Honor is the same, you have 3 defense/parry directions, GB and other options other options. Regards.
well obviously the whole thing is highly theoretical
yet it's still better than talking out of your arse
freeze you probably got me wrong, I wasn’t criticizing, I was trying to help. Seen the reaction though, I can only say good luck, mate...
oh nono, I didn't mean you with the "talking out of your arse".
I sometimes come off as harsh, without really meaning to.
there are also other things, like block stun (mentioned by snakezarr) that might play a role in this whole scenario. It's always a problem when you look at something in a more abstract way, without even having all the proper variables, or even knowing what variables are relevant.
freeze ok, sorry, my bad. Good job with the analysis.
basically if you don't have a monitor that doesn't mess with your reaction time, you win
Shinobi is straight up broken on console.
The side lights feel just as fast (if not faster) as an Orochi top light, but Shinobi can do it from any guard direction.
I honestly can't react fast enough to guard against a Shinobi that does nothing but light attack.
I was searching for these long ago... Thanks
for honor simply lacks consistency things sometimes come out slow and sometimes come out fast, and it messes with your reaction.
we need consistency.
thanks for your videos they are super helpful and with super high quality as always
Hamad khalid i have strongly disagree here. I think we need even less consinstency, whit that a parry isnt just a trained reflex but an actual counterreaction. Nearly every other fighting game has this kind of variation which can make combos very surprising. another reason we need the variation is because for honor has very small movesets compared to other games so that with more or even pure consistency every attack would be memorized pretty fast and parried with ease
Im completely fine with different parry timing and it makes u learn how to counter different attacks. What I do want Ubi to fix is the inconsistent server. Like you can parry attacks when against AI but cannot parry the same thing against real people
Wentao Feng Yes, why is it so difficult to land a parry on players even when I'm sure I hit the key before the attack connected?
great video freeze only thing i would suggest is maybe a key describing UB as unblockable etc. in your spreadsheet this info is most useful to newer players and they may not know what those terms mean fully
On console any assassin light attacks are too fast. You physically can not move your guard fast enough as a non-assassin to react between directional attacks. Orochi overhead light and zone is basically a 50/50 on console. Assassins health and damage output are also disproportionate when compared to other heroes. Assassins practically break this game.
Jaeger II not really. You must have really bad reaction time. I main lawbringer,valkyrie, and shaman. It’s really easy as i’ve fought and killed many assassins as lawbringer and valkyrie.
Its still easy to parry but when somebody have a connection of a fucking rock then yeah...
Nope, 50/50 doesn’t apply to me you go either way I will react, and if I play one match with you you can bet on the next match you try it again you’ll get parried, and yes I’m on Xbox.
You can react to Orochi's zone. Just keep your guard on top and be careful with blocking the zone.
Jaeger II I can reaction Parry every attack in the game besides orochi zone warden zone and kensei zone.
As you said about the animation I keep my eyes on the raider's back when he throws a zone to anticipate the result. Also he is a bit slumped when he it's the attack that puts him oos.
I think the Kensei, along with a few other characters, can faint later depending on their attack. The Kensei's unblockable can be canceled after his feet have left the ground. I wonder how that would effect the reaction window. Great vid man, nice work on the spreadsheet too.
Great video man, love the indepth information you have, have to sub
Me: Just finishing my for honor games on my barely functional ultralow setup. Let's warch a quick video.
Video: Max graphics and perfect framerate.
Me: Dear god how do i even hit anything ...
really a great video ! we need more of this! can you maybe put up a legend in the sheet for the different shortcuts like H,S,C etc...?
hey freeze, may i suggest something?
add the animations from the defender's POV. that way we can get a more accurate view of how we, as the ones who will react, to said attack.
jesus christ are these lights slow
Phenomenal analysis bro. Subbed
The Ice Skate Dlc was installed on that Shamen Clip, go look at it frame by frame.
Can you direct me to a video where shaman's abysmal stamina is shed some light?
You mind taking a look at Raider Zone feint 50/50 and Lawbringer Shove 50/50? Those are the ones that feel truly unreactable, not Kensei feint...
I'm a console player and everything you can react to on PC you can react to on Console as well with no difficulty. It actually makes you a better player reacting to certain attacks on console.
what is the ms times for block stuns?
Anyone else notice new bezerker max punish? It’s only one heavy now wtf..?
Can you make a vid about when you get a free guardbreak when baiting enemy into parry ( like unblockable cancel into guardbreak). Because I've played about 1000 hours of For Honor and I have had both occasions when I, played as Kensei, did unblockable cancel (not soft) into guardbreak and it landed, and when it didn't. Its really interesting topic. Thanks
problem is, it will never be consistent.
Sometimes your opponent messes up the parry timing and your GB, that should've landed, will bounce off, because he is too far into the animation already.
But I'll think about it. Thanks for suggesting it. Those are always welcome!
Overall, devs once said on the stream that heavy startups durations were matching with the heavy duration. And concretely, it should be considered that any heavy that is
CaptainVallois I could guardbreak orochi top heavy on few occasions, i never could guardbreak centurion and gladiator heavies.
Marks Župerka you also have to consider that you can GB a heavy if the enemy feinted it... In that case you could also gb a centurion heavy. But Orochi's top heavy is for sure un-gb-able if he didn't feint it and did it to react to your own heavy.
Raider Knee directly into zone various timings???
Please do an updated version of this
Miss my lights being modern day heavy attacks
Centurions dabs while in the middle of fight...
You can set a custom moveset for the enemy AI in the training grounds. This will solve all of your problems.
So, top light Orochi is unreactable??... Or is it?
Crazy work I have to admit! Could you allow us to post comments on your speadsheet i wanted to ask about something ?
I updated the link. I hope commenting works now.
On console it's harder but on impossible you just have to predict what your opponent might do either from past experience with that character or just how often they use it. But when I'm really into it and only a couple feet from the tv I turn out to be low-key ass at for honor
What is hard feint and soft feint
the beginning of the end
Sometimes you react on time it's just some attacks you literally can't get out of range . I feel like you should have that option especially. Especially when trying to parry can get you killed,also side dash attacks are impossible to block from PK
Raider soft feint, aramasha soft feint and don’t forget about things like highlander kick and grab feint great job on the video btw
Could you please give us a key to the google doc?
it got incorporated in the "main" spreadsheet for this game.
docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1wwr17AtTDFU3BZY_81axLVMKdHdNZuV0wGOb589VKgc/htmlview?sle=true#
check the bottom it should explain everything.
Thanks alot!
Really? Gladiator's skewer of all abilities? I can think of a ton of other abilities I think are harder to react to then gladiator. I personally don't have trouble with it if I just react to the parry flicker. Not saying I'll avoid it 100% of the time, but thats with anything even easy counter guardbreaks you miss every now and then, but gladiator's skewer is one of the abilities that gives me the least trouble.
I want the devs to nerf light speed cause, I had this match as raider where the opponent will do nothing but only light me out of everything till the timer ends. And it happened
4:03
why does this never happen with me
Warden soft feint into gb?
jea for me its mostly just the animation. thats why its so hard for me to even block a pk properly. the animation is really hard to see. especially because the heavy and the light animation are so similar.
Lawbringer base heavy feint feels so useless. This hero is supposed to parry yet i can't fool anyone into using a heavy.
Thats not really how you parry bait, only characters with really fast heavies will throw them on your guard if you feint like that. you'll have to mostly use feint into gb
Squattingturtle do the unblockable when they're out of stamina. Focus more on throwing them into a wall and getting the combo: Top heavy light Top heavy light. People don't use it, but it does more damage as centurions wallbang and hits often.
Jeffrey Schwanke - assassins can't actually react to it so I always use it
Feinting at high level play is different you party with a heavy right so if you throw a heavy and you realise it was a feint if you went for the party then you just press B and cancel your heavy unless they go for guard breaks then it can get tricky
Did you seriously wrap through that pillar at 4:03?
#OP
*Behold the power of RNG guard break!*
what you mean rng? that was a baited dodge which my GB tracked. that's why it looked so weird
Guard break works in mysterious ways
Thanks for the vids freeze.
In consoles especially with connections issues i'm not sure you have the time to react. Its more a guessing game acording to the characters moves and what you think the human player's style is. Anticipation more than reaction.
Shinobi's lights are faster than anything
For me the Warlords headbutt is unreactable
Same
Same. Just predictable in some occasion.
Warlord is arguably the best equipped in the game for he has nearly everything.
Huge health pool
Can ledge you from any direction
Hyper armour
High damage
Long range attack
Full guard stance that's actually useful
Top heavy from guard break
Ability to be either highly aggressive or full turtle
Incredibly fast 50/50 headbutt
Fast zone
Making a mistake means nothing due to high health
No skill required
Guard break spam
2 warlords = unstoppable force
General scumbags
I rather play against shamans
That Wizard or you could just git gud he only has 2 chains so you could easily parry his attacks, headbutt can be predictable depending on how your enemy plays warlord and how frequently he uses it. I'm rep 126 on ps and I play all characters, nobushi is a good counter to warlord imo
Jesus trujillo - what's your highest rep character?
Would be great if you could analize this but for console, i think reactions are too powerful and game changing on console in the sense that if you have very good reactions you have great advantage no matter how bad you can be in others abilities such us mind games or techs and mechanics knowledge, and if you have slow reactions you are in great disadvantage, not to say doomed, no matter how good you can be in the other abilities or how experience you are. And making this worst is the fact that all new heroes tend to be extremely fast, like Gald, Shaman and even Aramusha which unbalances console even more. What do you think about this @freeze?. Very useful info btw, thanks for sharing.
The game on console is perfectly the same than on PC, you are just locked to 30fps maximum. But none of the durations change.
I know the durations are the same but you completely missed the point of my question.
You asked for the same analysis but on console and then you wrote general complaints about the game being too fast for you apparently. So I just answered you that there's no point doing such a video since the reaction data are exactly the same on pc or console. I think that was your question, otherwise you might wanna make it clearer.
I get your point, but i still stand by both my question and my answer to you. Regarding time windows (ms) strictly, yes they are the same for every platform, but for the same window, console has less frames, this makes a significative difference in how the game is played. Besides the numbers, @freeze made a qualitative analysis about "reactability" arround this numbers but focusing on the game mechanics and my question to him was centered around this qualitative analysis.
What happened to bighat logan?
Leon he said until they make kensei viable he has no interest in the game or something like that. Its strange when you consider the dude did insane things and he would beat the living crap out of 99% of the players with the character yet even he thinks kensei is obsolete. Especially after they got rid of the unlock tech because he used that a lot.
Levente Ács
Yeah making your attacks unparryable through unlocking sure sounds like a respected skill lol
Dam I really miss the dude
Specter _Of _The Stars I wasnt talking about the unlock exploit. I was talking about 2nd hit unlock to reach chainfinishe and one and a half circle spin etc. which the dude invented.
I think it was alphastrike that showed it to him, but not 100% sure.
For some reason, freeze, i feel you should consider develop or help in developing a video game. Particularly a fighting game.
He sounds just like Jack Frags
The Top-lights though lol
I get moves not being possible to react to can be quite annoying.... But not every move should possible to block based off of reaction. Does anybody remember how horrible the turtle meta used to be? The games to a certain point has gotten too far and gives too much punishment for how quick some attacks are at some instants but the game should make you think on what's their next move and try to predict and punish what they're going to do next so it keeps the game enticing
Big brain far ahead of his time
I find it funny how someone with the name “Freeze” is talking about things that are reactable, seeing a being frozen somewhat limits your ability to react to things.
Shugoki has the most useless unblockable feint imo. Everyone can just press space and then they will get out of it. and shugo is too slow to be able to guardbreak them so they can counter guardbreak. making his the most reactable.
Personally I feel everything in the game is reactable It's just a matter of training your eyes to the animation like now at this point I can parry pk lights like their nothing but still have a hard time with shinobi even though supposedly they're the same speed. Us console players have to have wayyy faster eyes then these pc players
It's just easier for me to parry everything from a shinobi because they are always overly aggressive but PKs annoy me so I just turtle the fucker and get them mad (I despise all assassin classes)
I'd say a big majority of the gane is good under the circumstances it was ment to be played, sadly latency exists and the Xbox systems havent been able to operate smoothly and efficiently enough to acknowledge certain movements\actions quick enough during soft feints, we see certain moves go past the feint window of opportunity before it shows them actually feint and it can throw you off alot, softfeinting gb's is the most noticeable when you know its coming and counter at a regular tine but the game doesnt tech it since the soft feint shows up too late, raider dodge and cent heavy soft feint gb has an extremely high success rate when they are unguaranteed rnow.. I've seen a few posts and friends disscuss this with me and try to decode the purpose but its ultimately internet simply failing to be a flawless invention in a tining based game, as long as internet is flawed, the game will be too
Excellent video you need more subs
I'm not doing stupid meme shit, so I'm missing out on a big portion of this game's population.
freeze DEUS VULT
This is gold..
So baisically a good console player is a really good For Honor player 🤔
there are good console players? 🤔
freeze haha touche
nah but in all seriousness: the consoles might have the same hardware, but to not be at an even furher disadvantage, people need a proper TV (preferably with a gaming setting) or play on a monitor and on top of that have their controllers plugged in. That should already help out a lot of console players.
freeze 👍🙌
Your voice Sounds like Ravi Zacharias.
What they need to do is balance PC and console differently. An attack may be just fine on PC but on console it's likely horrid. So the speed of some attacks should be toned down for console to be level with PC's experience. I really don't know why Ubisoft doesn't prioritize console when the majority of the community is there.
For a long time I've felt that the Centurion heavy into GB soft feint is...OP. Nice to see some stats backing it up.
Lmfao
I just guard bereak intterupt now im used to it... DEUS VULT
raider unblockable in to stuning tap
Obviously reactable 👍
Orochi top lights unreactable? Lol no.
Sorry dude but I play Xbox and frequently parry, block and get parried or blocked with top lights. Like every light Orochi does its easy to react too. Only low tier players cant do it.
i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/992/402/c35.gif
50 lag 50 disconnected, which is totally reachable to ditch the game to the ground
So... you didn’t give any definitive answer at all.
no, because it differs from person to person.
I'm giving you the tools to figure it out yourself.
ConceitedCynic This is a old comment but based on the results on humanbenchmark, i'd say it's pretty safe to assume that 200 ms window is unreactable and 300 ms is very hard, possibly unreactable for most people as well.
The orochi gameplay is sickening.
doesn't matter what I play, there's always some clown complaining
freeze well forgive me if all I ever see "good" orochis doing is double top light, and zone attack; usually in that order.
you're forgiven ;)
and I'm not a good orochi, no matter how you look at it, hehe
Valks lights are un reactable
Petition to replace freeze with spliced
that's a little rude
Great video other than the completely pointless stabs at console players. It takes away all professionalism in the video
Wtf...wow😂 deflex are real
orochi & warden zones are too fast imo
Warden attacks are relatively slow so it's best to keep your guard to the left when against a warden but orochi attacks are very fast and the zone is just pure cheese and the only way an orochi can kill a good player
For Honor is basically a guessing game.
Not basically. It is.
SUIT UP! Yeah, you right.
Anthony Mercado You’re damn right about that. Let’s take the nobushi for example. I hate fighting nobushis because all their attacks are fast as hell and i do not understand the people that parry her lights and say she is the easiest to parry in the game. I don’t understand it at all. The next season coming out is all about reworking stuff though, changing things up with parrying, defensive meta (which is good!) because people turtle way too much in this game and it ain’t fun at all. I can’t wait for that, and let’s not forget dedicated servers!
Noah Pace you're kidding right? Nobu lights are the easiest lights to parry for me, even Cent heavies are faster
_Sub_
Don't say high tiered pc players and shit on console, since most pc players would get bodied by console players. We have a much smaller opportunity window to react to attacks since our game runs at 30 fps, which means our reaction time is faster and timing in FH is key.
Great video nonetheless.
is that why PC players are winning console tournaments?
freeze How many PC players have won console tournaments?
orochi sidelight with reaction guard? i think not
Every attack it reactable if ur gd u will react but pk's zone is too fast on console for me atleast
Oh yeah? When i played pk yesterday i just get parried