Too much volume
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- Опубликовано: 15 окт 2024
- More is not always better. The greatest mistake trainees is using too much volume. In fact, frequency is more important that volume for building muscle. Evidently this differs between enhanced vs natural lifters.
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Just discovered this channel.. amazing and underrated
He also has great articles on his website.
You should check him out on tnation
agree!
Totally agree!
Who's underrated it??
This dude is working up a sweat just talking about training. Love it.
i start jumping around and yelling just thinking about deadlifts
Yeah hes pretty intense and stereotypical its hilarious even though hes not trying to be funny. I subscribed just for that. He has great knowledge too
Protein synthesis
Easily one of the best fitness channels i’ve found!
Thank you
So much of your stuff is centered around the roles of insulin, cortisol, and stored-energy mobilization that I may actually have a decent understanding of these things if I continue following your channel. Thanks mang
Well, training is essentially stimulating a physiological response. It makes sense to understand human physiology as much as possible to maximize progress
You were several months ahead of this big debate on RUclips. Man, great job
nucleus overload?
Christian, shows what passion, work ethic, intelligence analytical skills and applying all these virtues through your lifetime can accomplish. He does not look for the quick fix, but the correct protocols.
I'm addicted to coach Thib's videos. Best info out there
This is great video for naturals, when I switched from split training to full body workouts 3x week, I started getting better results in strength and muscle mass. more frequency for more protein synthesis up time and less volume for faster recovery.
What was your split if you dont mind me asking?
@@canihazburgers Monday: chest/biceps - Tuesday: back - Wednesday: legs and shoulders - Friday: biceps/triceps.
Less time in the gym too.
Won't work forever though. After a while you just stop getting the same response doing the same volume per session. Your third, fourth, fifth exercises really turn into junk volume when you get stronger and stronger, so you can't stimulate everything at once. Recovery capacity improves with experience as well, there will come a time when you need 7-8 hard sets of bench presses to grow, you will feel barely sore, and you'll still be able to do 7-8 hard sets of incline presses just a couple days later, while getting stronger. You obviously need to train a muscle group 2 to 5 times a week for optimal growth (depends on the muscle group; you can't train your quads 5 times a week, but you can train your calves, traps, biceps and abs, for instance), but you will need more than just full body workouts and still match the same frequency while doing higher volume. Anyways, enjoy while it still works!
What are your strength levels if you don’t mind me asking? Trying to see if I can manage 3 days full body
Your articles on Tnation have transformed me into the lifter I am today. Im so happy i found this channel!
I was not expecting to hear such great information when i clicked on your video. subbed.
The more you work, the more your money get taxed. The more you work out, the more your body gets taxed ;)
wotyoutalkinabeet
Hmmmmm. That actually makes a lot of sense!
claim 9 dependents
Except ultimately the more you work you're still getting more money in the end. Just takes more to get more.
It makes sense.
That was amazing! I’ve been watching Jeff Nippard + Cavalier, Mike And Greg Doucette and you’ve just rounded off the information from them all, perfectly!
vince orr albert LoL Jeff definitely over exaggerates some things but he is definitely natural. The only crazy things about his physique are his arms.
@CheezusCrust jeff is hella skinny
He does give some solid advice tho other than the fake weights allegations
@CheezusCrust Jeff is just a pumped up ottermode
Actually no. All those guys took their information from HIM and rounded off the information.
Absolutely!! Just talked with a lot of people in my gym about this. Everyone is doing tons of exercises for each body part with very little intensity. They wonder why i am still improving at 58 and they are not changing much at all!
Many built great physiques by doing tons of low intensity volume.
@@varnadoreli have yet to see anybody look even decent doing what u describe: lots of low intensity sets and exercises.
Good morning.
What is your actual split ?
I love how he yells and gets passionate when he speaks. Subbed!
i also learned this the hard way. ive made more gains following a high frequency high intensity low volume protocol.
Do you mind sharing your training
CT’s the shit. I learned 10x more about lifting and health from this one person than my entire useless health promotion and wellness / strength and conditioning degree. Anyone looking to take their training to a higher level, listen to, and buy this man’s books. You won’t regret it that I promise you.
Love this channel. Too much volume is disastrous. That's why my back hurts a lot because of earlier years of squatting too much.
Impossible to more clear. Thanks for sharing!
Great info. Try and see what works for you.
I agree with the too much volume comment completely. Ive been in the gym seriously for 5 years now, went from 420lbs obese to 260lbs lean! The last 2 years or so though Ive been training for power lifting and strongman comps. Trying to do my high volume body building workouts but with heavy weights and barbells movements destroyed me and was a detriment to my strength and size gains. Recently Ive been doing much less volume workouts, such as a starting strength model and 2-3 times a week and my strength is shooting through the roof!
That why I stick to full body workout three times a week. Only do more higher frequency on lagging body parts. Learned that style of the training from Leroy Colbert.
Leroy Colbert was one of the best.
After careful consideration...THIS GUY IS THE BEST IV SEEN OR HEARD DISCUSS CRITICAL ISSUES REGARDING NATURAL BODYBUILDING.
Less is more... Great tshirt btw
Mike Mentzer advocated the same decades ago. High-Intensity training is the answer, especially if you are a hard gainer. There are numerous Mentzer lectures on the subject.
Mentzer heavy Duty is very high intensity and very low frequency and volume. Here it is stated that the frequency in naturals must be high by sacrificing volume.
awesome!
Yes, Mike was generally leading people in the right direction. But he advocated very little volume and too little frequency, i think far too little. Perhaps meant for extreme hardgainers?
@@IronWarrior86 I think that perhaps, extreme failure intensity is more optimal for doped people.
IF your on the gear you are correct, higher reps. If your natty lowers reps, heavier weight more often.
Very well explained. Love it.
It took me many years to figure this out on my own because I read the muscle mags when I was a kid.
exactly!
I just watched 2 of your videos and I can tell you have so much to teach to all newbies and most intermediate athlettes. Great advice🤙
Something about this guy's honesty. Instant fan.
I reduced my Training from 2 to 1,5 hours ..after your Videos i will reduce it even to one hour per day ..Ty
mensc en
How about 1 hour in the morning plus another hour in the evening?
Thanks Coach im taking notes
Thank you soooo much for YOUR CHANNEL!!!😀👍
this vid and the other Thibarmy vids have been great esp since I've been working out at home since shutdown. a LOT of info.
This is amazing...the channel isn't so popular but all his videos are *****. Wealth of info & great scientific advises. Keep up!!!
Thanks for all these helpful information
True this man got talent and knowledge
Coach thanks for sharing your knowledge.
Like your channel. I do have one question though. If high volume is correlated to hypertrophy and therfore muscle size, as opposed to small volume heavy for strength, and a natural shouldn't do high volume. Then how can a natural effectively establish hypertrophy if they can't do high volume
Great content brother. Your channel is very underrated. Here's to your channel getting the exposure you deserve!
This is why my best gains were when I did breathing squats (only one exercise) once per week and a very brief upper body workout the other day. I was rushing at the time, and I made my best gains since my initial newbie gains many years prior.
What was your very brief upper body workout like?
Lots of people have been instinctively feeling the validity of these ideas. I'm happy he is providing the scientific backing for them.
Spot on.
I used to believe that more is better until I started having intense muscle tension in my upper back/traps/neck area which caused me to experience dizziness, trouble breathing normally, increased heart rate, nausea etc.
Train smarter, not harder.
Too much preworkout...
@@otallono Never used preworkout…
I was with you with the muscle tension in that area but what the hell it sounds like you have more problems than lifting and should go to the doctor. A sore neck doesn’t make you nauseous and dizzy
Miles Stuckey There is a difference between sore muscles and tension. My neck didn’t hurt. It was just under a constant tension which I was told by my doctor and multiple YT videos actually can cause dizziness
Mikkel S Plus trouble breathing, increased heart rate, and nausea?
Thanks! THIS is the most important topic, specially for natural athletes!
I am 62, do HIT, and I am on TRT, to keep me in a normal range. I guess I would not be considered a natural ?
Thanks for all you sharing , so clear and easy to understand for anyone
By far the most underrated fitness channel on YT
Lots of GREAT info just in this short video....Thank you!
Always wondered why l showed little hypertrophy pumping out 25 to 30 sets per body part which from a logical perspective would produce more hypertrophy not less, but of course didn't take into account other factors. Have cut the volume down and since doing that, l am building more muscle and strength
Yep.
I used to do 25-30 sets (for big muscle groups) every workout - twice a week with only 1 rest day so just about 50-60 sets a week for chest, back and legs alone.
Looking back at it I feel like a complete idiot for doing so much.
@@ohMikkel Hey just think, while you were doing those killer workouts, there were all those fatass's doing the same thing at Mc Donalds and Burger King. And then the bath room.
Absolutely brilliant
I am interested, you say that to much volume was your greatest down fall. In your Black Book you give set and reps recommended volume for certain fiber types. Has your data changed also?
I am currently studying for your Neuro Typing Cert but I have not gotten to the volume of work yet.
Also I am 42 sitting at 10% BF. I am certified Strength Coach. I am a retired MMA fighter and currently a Pro BJJ player. I lift only 3 times per week. 1 Very heavy, 1 moderate and 1 very light more active recovery. To much volume on the mats it’s hard to recover from 3 solid workouts. I am natural and have no need for PEDS.
Ofcourse I also plan for speed and power twice a year for peaking. That way I don’t burn out my CNS
I think the big problem is thinking one way of training only makes you grow at a 10% rate while another makes you grow at a 30% etc… it’s more likely wether you are stimulating growth or not, and wether you’re staying consistent or not
I just found this channel, i'm happy i did, you know what you are talking about.
I am 70 years old and do a 2 day a week split because recovery is slower at my age, I push hard and eat well, can I make gains on this schedule?.
John Middleweek cut down your intensity for example in those full bodys maybe hit each muscle once per session then go more often perhaps 3-4 times a week
keep the intensity high on those sets
He got sweat just from this speech)))
Thank you for sharing!
sure thing!
So same volume idea as Mentzer but completely opposite on frequency. Interesting. Lately there have been a lot of people swearing by Mentzer's program. Glad I came across your video. I dont understand why so many people take Mentzer's words as gospel.
guy Kills it with the logic...fkin legend.
5 sets per major muscle twice per week will get gains for ordinary people right up through the advanced beginner (strength double compared to the start) stage. That has been my experience. 5 sets of bench press, 5 sets of squats, 5 sets of bent-over rows, then 3-5 sets for the smaller muscles depending on your ability to recover and desire to emphasize. 35 sets (chest, back, quads, hams, delts, biceps, triceps, I ignore the calves) X 2 at the most. And you will get good gains. Moderate increase in carbs and VERY moderate increase in protein. That's it. Double your strength in a year. For normal people, this is wonderful progress that will make life easier, fit your clothes better, and it doesn't cause any joint or other problems!
Thib is one of the best, a) i dunno how i only just found this channel, b) how is it so few subscribers?
Same! He also teaches oly lifting which is truly awesome! So underrated!
i have generally done about 5 to 8 sets for 1 body part, once a week....
im done in 30mins and out....
pick an exercise you enjoy and make it a challenge,... the rest will follow.
Yes, me too! I was trying to do more to build glutes and had some progress at first but no growth thereafter. It wasn't until I increased weight, used proper form and less sets and reps did I see and feel results.
Hed argue you should be doing that 3x a week
@@johns783 It just has always made sense to train all your muscles, at least 2-3 times a week.
so fuckin underrated.
thanks for the wakeup call
absolument incroyable comme information, j'ai hate de confirmer cette theorie avec mon propre entrainement!
Amazing! Love this guy
You found your niche. Now, you're channeling your natural power.
awesomeeeee video, one of the best advice for natty guys, how much time and sets for session?
Didn't know coach thibbs had a RUclips channel, instasub
Great advice bro thank you for this info what an eye opener
This should be on the news
The hard part is people like me that are on PED's (currently 300mg/week test + 25mg/day ostarine) don't have a lot of guidance. Most of the guides in regards to routines and volume are for natural lifters. I've had to sort of feel my way through what I am capable of on PED's and have strayed into overtraining territory (4+ hours/day of exercising) many times even on gear
Absolutely nailed it. I couldn’t lose fat because I was lifting too hard too often. Spiked cortisol.
Right, I believe that to lose fat you should increase physical activity, but that doesn't mean doing more hard training. Too much hard training, when you are in a caloric deficit (so your capacity to recover is lower) is not a great idea for long-term progress
The real question is what's considered too much volume?
30 sets+/session ? I guess... But depends on so many factors.
Check this out : Dr. Mike Israetel's Training Tips for Hypertrophy
more than 5-10 sets (depending on muscle group and exercise) on a muscle group in one session is probably too much (according to recent research, but tbh, we can only trust fitness research so far. Better than not having it though). Beyond 20-30 sets in a week is mostly likely too much as well. This will of course vary depending on your RiR. If you insist on only doing RPE 6 or below, then you would of course require more volume.
But I think that a general rule is that the more advanced you get, the more volume matters, but intensity also costs you more recovery time (as weight is still weight, even as you get stronger). As you become more advanced you should know your body enough to modulate this though. For beginners, I think that aiming at 3-6 sets 2-3 times per week per muscle group is a good general recommendation. Basically, say you're looking at the pushing chain of the upper body. If you do a 5x5 bench + 3x10 triceps extension on the first day, (of a whole body program) and a 5x8 OHP + 3x6 pause bench the second day, then you're hitting the different muscles very roughly at least 3 sets per session and at least 8 sets per week (assuming some carry over between exercises).
Great content
From his other videos I watched, you want to train each muscle group at least twice a week, optimally 3 times (as a natural). So whatever volume allows you to recover fast enough to do that. If you're unsure, it's always better to start lower and progressively add each workout if you feel like you've recovered properly than try to be at your limit from the start. adding even just 1 rep per workout is progress, just don't add more sets, I'd keep it 2-3 per exercise and focus more on compound.
Bruh u make so much sense
Another excellent video.
Thank you Chris you sound like a preacher at the church
Using lighter weights to train more often?
I need that T-Shirt!
How many sets do you recommend per day if your training the muscle 3 times a week. How many sets per muscle group. 3-4 something like that. I guess I could do upperbody one day then lower body then repeat untill I do them 3 days a week
IF you;re asking this question reg park 5x5 to begin with
Or do 3 full body a week
John S yea how many sets on a full body 3 days a week
@@jessedavis1489 you want 10 to 20 sets weekly. So 3 to 5 sets per exercise per session. Do whatever is enough to train the muscle, but also can be recovered before your next session.
John S 10-4 thanks
So does this mean no cardio after weights?
exactly!
Hey Christian! Does this go for beginners and intermediate too who are yet to make considerable gains?
If this guy was my personal trainer I’d piss my pants every time he raised his voice.
I've cut out my junk volume and gone to three full-body workouts per week. Despite being north of 50 and having been training for years, I'm seeing gains in mass and strength. My only supplementation is creatine.
Most of the athletes (as in sport athletes) train the whole body three times per week.
@@THIBARMY I was going with bro-splits with way too many exercises and sets each week. (I was also doing way too much thunder-and-lightning cardio.) I started actually looking at the research (some of which you've been highlighting), and I have become a believer that less is more.
I can only wonder how much progress I've chewed up by overtraining. Anyway, good work.
@@steelmongoose4956 Mike Rashid (and many others) are advertising overtraining still... but, I guess, that works only for such "overjuiced" guys. I like his mentality though... can't understand how could he lie that blatantly with his mindset.
@@8000860 I dunno, maybe whatever he's doing works for him or people he coaches. Juicing would certainly allow anyone to accommodate a much larger training volume. I'm not willing to get more exotic than creatine and protein shakes.
Bro splits are the worst for natural lifters.
Not enough frequency and way too much volume in one workout.
There's a guy in my gym who does like 30 sets of pulldowns every workout and he looks like shit.
best advice I've heard from this TN celebrity
Ray Garcia he’s from Tennessee?
He's from Canada 🇨🇦
I got it. But, what about that burning in muscle? That "pain for gain"... I can't reach it with big weight and with small amount of reps.
I have to take lighter weight and concentrate (focus) a lot to feel the muscle.
So, how to deal with that? Is that "feeling" really important, or I just have to use heavy weights (without burning in muscle) as far, as it meets technique requirements?
I find dorian yates techniques gave me best result as a natural. Set 1 15 reps really focused 2nd around 10 then 3rd is proper all out of 6-8 with a spotter or drop sets and rest pause to total failure. Just one insane set
@@joshmuz9018 Yeah, I've tried it also, since it's logical (to prepare muscles for heavy sets with mind-muscle connection). But a lot of people are totally against pyramids 🙄
Très bon vidéo merci !
Thibs is a preacher and the gym is his congregation.
lol, I was thinking the same thing
Holy shit, amen. Thank you.
Love this man
Thanks you sir 👍👍
Can you tell us your steroid cycle when you gained 15 lbs of muscle in 2 months? Really interested because it's physically impossible to gain 15lbs of muscle naturally in two months.
lol iam not sure in Lbs but i gained 14kg in one month its possible step out of you comfort zone leave your fears and ego in home and eat like an animal and lift heavy ass plates dude. its impossible for you dont put your limits on other
@@elmuciodingdong1873 Bro, no offense, but you definitely didn't lol. Even if you were an anorexic, absolute beginner and were taking steroids and eating in a caloric surplus you WOULD NOT gain 14 KGS (30-31 pounds) of muscle in just ONE month. Christian himself said in a bulking video, that even in the best conditions with 'supplements' you can't gain more than 20 lbs, so 9 KGS in 3 month. 9/3= 3 kilograms of muscle per month.
@@emin4704 Maybe he is weighing himself while lifting his heavy ass plates. Lol!
Elmucio Dingdong yea what the fuck are you smoking dude, you did not gain 30 lbs in one month. Why bother to lie to strangers what do u get out of it.
He was talking about when he was younger, which is possible for someone in there 20's . You just have to eat and train like an animal. You might think its not possible because you couldnt do it. Maybe you should accept the fact that people can go places you cannot instead of being a hater.
How do you know muscle protein synthesis has been triggered, physiologically is there a definite signal?
It can be measured in a lab. But you can't tell by yourself
Full body workouts are for beginners. There is no way to work legs and back on the same day and destroy both of them let alone add in the rest of your body. This is my split. I workout monday wednesday and friday and split my body in half.
Squats 6 sets of 6-10
deadlifts 3 regular 3 sumo 4-6 reps
pelvic hip thrust machine 4 sets 8-12
lying leg curls 3 sets 6-10
shrugs heavy cheat wide grip bar 3x12
straight bar curl 5x8
seated calf raise 3x12-20
I superset a lot of the little stuff. workout takes about 1.5 hours max
next day off then workout b
cable lat pullover 2x15
hammer strength one arm reverse pulldown heavy 3x6-12
cable rows 4x6-10...I prefer to do tbar rows but it is too much with so many deadlifts every 4-5 days.
hammer strength incline press close grip 4x6-12
close grip bench 2 sets 6-8
dips weighted 2 sets 8-12
heavy supported one arm side lateral with very wide stance. 3x8-12
standing dumbbell press 3x8-12
face pulls cable seated on row machine 3x 10-15
I do not know how to lift easy. I like to push it hard. I need the rest day after every workout and 2 days rest on the weekend is perfect to restart a hard week. I am 52 years old with a 35 year lifting history. I am 220 pounds aprox 17% bodyfat and look like a natural bodybuilder at his genetic limit. I am 5 foot 10. I went on trt 3 years ago as my test levels were less than 200. I keep my test levels in the 600-800 range on 70mg twice per week. I also take 100mg of deca durabolin to help aid in protein synthesis and help lower cortisol. My labs are always fine. I take niacin every day to keep my HDL elevated. I also take chromium picolinate 1000mcg twice per day with my high carb meals. I shoot for 300 grams of carbs and 200 grams of protein each day that I lift and 200 of each on non lifting days. I am gonna keep this workout for another 3 or 4 months and then do Dorian Yates split for a while and then go back to this one after that one fizzles out. Keep trying new things and realize that your body needs change occasionally. good luck.
Merci pour votre honnêteté
I do ppl 4 times by week.
Day 1 chest , shoulders,Triceps.
Day 2 quads, Ishios ,calves.
Day 3 rest.
Day 4 back, Biceps,trapeze.
Day 5 rest,
Day 6 chest ,shoulder,triceps.And so on.
Thus thé Day 1 repeat two times in à week.
One group of muscles will be worked 4 times in 3 weeks.
I do 4 sets by group style heavy duty.
What are you thinking about ?
Eric
This guy is so legit. Can't believe he's not more well known.
I'm not more well-known on social media. But social media are not the real world. I give packed seminars around the world. Australia, Hong Kong, Shanghai, France, Germany, Poland, Slovenia, Croatia, US, Canada, Switzerland, UK, Belgium... and that's just on top of my head.
THIBARMY nowadays social media is the real world. There are plenty of people that make millions just off social media. Never underestimate that and fail to adapt. But I am very happy that you get more attention outside of social media because you have a lot of knowledge and valuable information to share. Keep up the good work!
So should beginner train harder by going to failure or close to failure or maybe going all out on the first set, or should beginner train a moderate weight and add more volume more sets? Which is better?
Training to failure is useless for beginners. They don't need it to progress and doing it just leads to inconsistency.
Beginners should be focusing on perfecting form and consistency.
Great video & it shows how much ur pissed off with the volume issue. Am 52 & thinking of starting a push,pull, legs over five days Monday to Friday keeping low volume but high intensity with Sat Sunday off. Would love to know your opinion if poss. Thx a lot
If you do PPL for 5 days you are skipping a leg workout. So you have to either do it 6 days a week. Or pick another routine so you can have weekends off.
So maybe pick Upper/ Lower or Full body 3 times a week.
Hello sir, does this mean that methods like pre fatigue ,post fatigue, drop sets or sets to failure are causing cortisol to rise? I implemented pre fatigue method in all of my exercises in first workout of the week for accumulation block. Bad or good idea?
Thanks !
so how many times should I train per muscle part? and how many sets should I do per muscle per session???
How would this concept apply to new trainees?
This is why I do totall body each workout, but only 3 sets per muscle. 2 reasonably hard sets, followed by a f**k all hard set 🤪
I have 3 different programs, so the muscle beeing worked first, is sirculated. (Due to hipreplacement surgery 4 moths ago, legs are still last on each program, because I can not train them hard at this point).
I also change reprange, first two is low rep, next 2 medium, then high.
This I do, so that I get to trigger the muscle with different exercises, volume and intensity. 😊
ok.. but how much is too much volume ?
Lol I’m was looking in the comments hoping someone wrote it out
80-100 sets a week per muscle this is considered high volume
depends on how fast you can recover, it's different for everyone based on genetics and experience/years training. You want to train each muscle group min twice, optimally 3 times per week (like a 6 day push pull for examplel) The volume is whatever allows you to do that and still recover. Proper recovery with progressive overload and frequency is the answer.
@@stilladreamer1 awesome comment ill keep that in mind
here is the answer...it varies CONSTANTLY if you just wanna look good and are not a competitive bodybuilder...which is 99.9% of the population do about 3 to 4 exercises per body part,,,again this varies 3 to 12 reps or so and in my case NEVER EVER EVERRRRRRRRRRRRR goin to failure and beyond
Frecuency or volume?
I have that t-shirt!
Great video!!! Time to cut down the volume a bit 👍🏼