He’s not lying. I went to prison all they had was pull up and dip stations on the yard. (They took the weights out because they didn’t want the inmates getting to strong). But i was amazed at how big these dudes were and all they did were dips and pull ups and all natural no cycle.
@@jpm7049yeah I do them weighted. I add weight each session. I don’t worry about a pump - I just focus on adding weight each session which means am getting stronger
Remember this trainees when you're told you have to change or alter your routines & lifts because the muscle mags say so. Gymnasts don't do that & you see their physiques.
Agreed. All false propaganda to sell programs. Only reason to switch is boredom of excersise. If they work no reason to change. Adding weight or reps shocks the muscle you don’t need to change excersise. People are so naive
@@Shagley I’ve done juice. Absolutely can train a ton on it evacuee you recover like you’re superhuman. I found a few sets low volume has actually worked wonders for me at 41 natural. I don’t do one set but 2-3 per excersise for 2 excersises each and I’ve gotten good results. Upper lower split. Don’t need tons of volume
Basics, Basics, Basics! I see these dudes in the gym with no muscle doing these isolation exercises because they saw their juiced up fitness influencer do it on Instagram.
Yes, I think the basis of a routine should be dips, chin ups, pull ups and pushups. You do isolation exercises to build areas where you are genetically weak to improve them. I have a naturally well developed chest from doing push ups since I was a kid, but my biceps and lower back are not as developed as I would like. So I do two back , bicep workouts a week, only one on chest and shoulders and of course.. I never skip leg day ; ] I usually do that as part of my second back routine.
So true, if you can't master the basics first, don't move onto advanced movements. It's like being handed the keys to a Porsche GT as your first car. However I must admit that I was at fault of doing all those isolation workouts with heavy volume when I was younger because that's all you would see on you tube at the time.
I finally got the courage to get better at dips and for the last 8 months or more I do them every single day no matter if it’s a back day or what. Completely changed my chest. My lower chest is damn near more dominant than the middle. Thank you Mike
Thanks Mentzer brother for all the research on bodybuilding ! I have put into practice the Mentzer's routines with amazing results. The recovery phase is one of the most important period in their routine as they stated.
Just bought both books on Amazon. I''m going though each and everyone of these videos on this channel. I can't believe more people to know this is more than gold this is diamonds of knowledge.
@@timmian85 Horrible comparison. Mike Mentzer is preaching that you should pay attention to the basics, and focus on intense brief workouts with adequate recovery. All things which modern medicine has agreed is critical for muscle growth. So no, a pseudoscience like acupuncture is not at all comparable to Mike Mentzer's teachings.
At least at my gym I have never seen anyone do the pull downs to failure like me… I am so grateful for Mike passing down this exercise, Which is one of my all-time favorites, but the dip bar in my gym seems a little too wide for me and I don’t know if I ever felt sore from dips. But I do go to complete failure and I feel like I fought my heart out during the dips and I hope and I mean I HOPE its really benefiting me. Because the next day after pull downs, I feel multiple muscles sore
Same the dip bars are also too wide in my gym and its really annoying but im gonna make them buy a better one, and i do pull ups instead of pulldowns i think they are way better and also more usefull in other sports and activity
It's also my understanding that gymnasts get their biceps without weights simply by doing rope climbs, which is similar to the pulldown he's advocating here. They sit on the ground with their legs in a V position and pull themselves up while remaining in that position. Also as far as dips, they do a variation called Russian Dips. You have to be able to do that variation to do the various parallel bar moves. The Russian Dip is also the missing piece in muscle-up progressions.
A nice, Ill have to look into that. I cant for the life of me even begin to do a muscle up.. I gave up in frustration, maybe the Russian dip is the missing piece for me. Cheers ; ]
@@PhilMcCrackin-f3n Yeah even the Russian Dip is hard. I use parallel bars at my local park and slightly jump up into the position..I can't even pull myself up yet. There's also something called the False Grip used in rings which is a major component as well. There are certain progressions you do on the rings to get a ring muscle up and I imagine that's the best way to learn. I have some rings..they're great and there's really nothing harder. The gymnasts know what they're doing when it comes to strength I just follow them. Their methodical progressions will keep you from getting injured as well. I really recommend channels with a gymnast background like GMB Fitness, Gymnastics Method, GymnasticBodies, Sid Paulson etc.
@@PhilMcCrackin-f3n Also look into learning the False Grip on rings. Learning on rings is probably the best way to achieve the muscle up. There are all sorts of progressions to strengthen certain aspects of the movement because of being able to adjust the ring height. The gymnastics approach to progressions in general will keep you from getting injured as well. Rings are very difficult..worth having!
@@PhilMcCrackin-f3n I've been looking around and there's also something called the False Grip on rings which others say is essential. I imagine learning to do the muscle-up on rings while also practicing the Russian Dip on bars is the way to go. The great thing about having a set of rings is that they allow you to do all sorts of progressions to make it easier, but rings in and of themselves are about as difficult as it gets.
Im a skinny guy. When I was young I started doing chin ups off the bar in my closet. Im still skinny my biceps grew a lot and my back is my best muscle group now. I have done lots of curls but never got nearly as much growth from them. I truly believe the foundation of my body was built on chin ups dips and one legged squats.
Glad you like the videos, Dimitris. Right now I want to focus on ensuring Mike's legacy is preserved and his teachings are accessible to all. Perhaps at a later date I'll do some videos on my thoughts on training.
@@HEAVYDUTYCOLLEGE You are welcome Mr Little. Your introductory book in Bodybuilding was a bible for me:-)! By the way Marvin Eder's (natural) strenghth and muscles prove once for all how effective dips are!
Cross posting my comment on palms up close grip pulldowns from another video: Tried this for the first time today. Hands shoulder width, but preferred closer together. Sets to failure ---- slow, controlled, full ROM. It's absolutely bananas. Forearms, arms, even chest, all destroyed. Don't sleep on this one, folks.
@@SmokyOle Three warmup sets, the third one being somewhat challenging. And then finally an all-out heavy set to failure, managing to squeeze in partial reps. This last set was torture. So three warmups, and then the main set.
Presently doing a 'consolidated routine' consisting of dips and reverse close grip bent-over barbell rows one working set each to failure plus one or two rest pause reps and finish off with slow negatives. Excellent combo! 💪
@@eoinforHIT mostly out of personal preference. I find they work better to build upper back thickness and the reverse grip puts secondary emphasis on the biceps.
@@leolee6786 that would make sense but I don't think he tore it because he was using an underhand grip on his rows. Still one of the best exercises for back Imho 😉
@@nelacostabianco "you dont think". Funny how it is ALWAYS the supinated hand that gets a biceps tear when doing mixed grip deadlifts. Maybe you should think about it for a few more reps.
During wrestling all we did was dips and pullups. Ring dips ring pullups rope climbs. Crazy variations. No weight. But all taken to failure and not high volume but high intensity. Deff built alot of muscle and strength during in season and off season for wrestling.
@@joshuajackson4161 100% it was our most developed body part along with our traps… the dips and pushups built our front delts and the pullups and rope climbs hit our rear delts… along with constant hand stand walks they made us too at the end of practice… best thing for us
@@IrishJJ27 jump lunges, duck walks, forward squat jumps. We also would carry a teammate up flights of stairs that was in our weight class. And of course some air squats at the end
I leaned forward a little bit during dips this morning, and wow. It hit my chest so hard! It made the exercise so much more difficult. I hope my form was okay. I can’t tell while I’m doing it.
@@yojeli Yes. I did the dips on an assisted pull-up machine today, but it didn’t slide very well. It felt like I was pushing all of my weight on the way up. There’s another similar machine in the gym. I’ll try it next time.
Dips leaned forward (as much as you can) is the optimal way to preponderantly work the chest; you can do this by raising the knees toward the chest. Also, to engage the chest to the max, another important trick is to flare the arms/elbows. This are the dips for chest. Dips for triceps are done with the body in a vertical position and arms tucked/closed to body.
Mr. John, You are doing tremendous job with this YT channel! Very educational and, at the same time, in memory of great Mike Mentzer. Respectfully, from Serbia! PS: Maybe You can set some profile and topic photos with Mike and You for more attractiveness to the channel.
Personally, l prefer seated machine dips. It's much easier on my shoulders, and l have more control of the range of motion. For Lats, l sometimes use the Max straps. Thanks for the advice, John. 👍💪💯
@@dbozexpat894 I'm 44 with bad shoulders, one is worse than the other. I do hundreds of manual dips a week. The secret of doing dips without injuring your shoulders is the same as it is for bench press or any other lift that involves your chest. You have to push back your shoulders and do your best to keep them "pinned together" while you are doing your dips. This keeps your shoulders out of the workout and stops them from being injured. Also, you don't need to go down super low, just go the same amount that you would when you are doing the machine dip.
@@p2a0p2e0r1 I'm over the age of 50 and have perfect working shoulders. I used to do dips, and got great results. However, l don't them anymore. Since my teens, l never did these marathon workouts (6 days a week) promoted in the bodybuilding magazines. 💪
Very true. Basics worked for me. Lots of time wasted on isolation, it should only compliment a workout. The gymnasts are not even trying to gain muscle, far from it, muscle is heavy and a problem in their craft. They don’t train to failure - wouldn’t make sense for them to, they rely on repeated efforts/bouts. That’ll show you the power of pull ups and dips. Add reps, add *gulp* volume, add weight , go to failure the odd time, eat a little over you calorie requirements and hey presto. Gear helps too 😂
And FYI, as a skinny 53 years old man, with no progress in the gym for years, I started heavy duty training 4 weeks ago. Very good strength progress between workouts, of course that's just the beginning but let's see. I'll try to keep one workout every 7 days, even if that is really hard, as i feel enthusiastic about training and always want to go sooner. I'll resist and follow Mike's advice, as long as there is progress.
@@lisleigfried4660 sadly, overall it was disappointing. Strength progress continued, which was very good, and also the very intense but brief sessions seem to be indeed kinder to the joints, so definitely a plus. But the negative was the absence of muscle size gain. After 2 months, precise measurement including body fat showed I had no size increase, only strength. I realized it might be because I needed more calories (indeed I don't digest as well as 30 years ago, so tend to avoid overfeeding), so I tried for a couple of months to add an extra 500 to 700 calories, while maintaining a good balance of nutrients. I did gain weight, but precise measurements showed it was only fat :-( It might be a decrease in T levels, I'm actually currently evaluting this. Sorry for the negative feedback. I lowered intensity since then, until I understand why I'm not progressing (when I was 18, I did gain a lot of size, like 40 pounds in 2 years, 30 lean 10 fat, so I know what it is, and definitely don't find anything comparable today, maybe age, or metabolism, or hormonal, hopefully I find out).
@@afco06 Maybe try looking into some more current literature and research than a guy who insists that training 20 minutes every 5 days with just one set per muscle group is optimal. But i can tell you right now that you're not doing anything correctly according to modern day exercise science. Your volume and frequency is too low, you might as well not go to the gym. Do you really think training briefly once every 7 days is going to justify bumping up your calories 500-700?! Jesus christ that is ALL fat, every single ounce of extra weight is going to be fat. For your sake i hope that is a weekly surplus and not daily. If you are dead set on doing this HIT training style, that is fine, but i would strongly suggest you do it as Dorian Yates did it.
@@timmian85 Indeed I'm questionning the validity, at least for me. Mentzer's book is pretty convincing though. And I know for a fact that it works for some people. My early days training, with rapid gains, were indeed with higher volume, and higher calories. Probably need to find a compromise. I'll keep experimenting. Nothing should be ignored until tested. All theories are just this, theories, and I've never seen a real scientific proof that a particular routine works. It varies so much between people. The extra 500 cal were per day, but not a big deal, I'm also doing cardio between weight sessions.
@@afco06 Dorian Yates suggested beginners do a 3 day split, basically half a push pull legs routine. I would start there and you can play around with volume and intensity and figure out what works for you. You could also google "minimalist workout routine" and see what comes up, those are short routines based around low volume and and taking things to failure. ALSO, you have the (in)famous starting strength routine, which if i recall is just a 2-3x a week heavy barbell compound workout based on progressive overload in weight. Squats, bench, overhead press and deadlifts.
Thanks again for posting these, John. One comment on the close grip pulldown and impact on biceps. Of course I agree that it works strongly and directly the biceps, in addition to lats and rear delts, that's pure mechanics. But about the fact that it is better than curl based on the fact that 2 joints are involved, I would comment that in the pulldown, the elbow movement is concentric yes, but in the shoulder it seems it is excentric, so the 2 joint movements seem opposite, aren't they ? Now it may be irrelevant as I suspect the biceps attachment in the shoulder joint is not equivalent to the elbow attachment. Feel free to share any opinion you may have on this.
I'd say it's a natural pulling motion so there's no problem. It's just overall better to do compound multi joint lifts. Biceps curls do have a place if you need extra work imo.
Correct analysis. Like anyone else, Mentzer didn’t know Everything. He gave great advice on a lot of things, but often his reasoning behind the advice wasn’t fantastic. But he is a legend nonetheless
Pull downs is for hypertrophy mostly and pullups give you both, especially strength, that you can then use to pulldown more 🫡 Most people shy away from pullups cause they look silly and can't execute 1 complete rep Pulldowns won't help pullups, only mass amount of pullups help you pullup better!
Most gymnasts develop big biceps through the exercises on rings, especially static exercises like horizont when the biceps are in a super stretched position and overwhelmed. This I know from my friend who half of his life gymnast. The are lots of strong calisthenics people who can do lots of pull-ups with big weights, but I never see anyone who is even close in biceps size and form to those guys (gymnasts) who specialize in rings.
If you Google muscles worked in dips you will see that the anterior deltoid is involved during the exercise. Here is one example: kinxlearning.com/pages/bar-dips
I have subscribed to your channel, John. Really enjoying the content and have just completed the 4th day of training, I do have a question though, can you or anyone else who reads this tell me where I can get the Heavy Duty (1 and 2) by Mr Mentzer. Amazon do not have any and I have been looking but can find no one selling them.
dips is mainly lower chest, push ups for upper chest would have to be on a decline with feet elevated on a surface, those are killer. dips and decline push ups with a weight vest will make your chest explode
i prefer pull ups, but yeah, guy's completely right. i haven't done a bench press or bicep curl in years, still jacked af. the gymnast workout is king, accept no substitutes. buy a pair of rings already.
A lot of trainers will tell you that dips are "bad" because it replaces many machines and weights...if you do pull ups, dips, lounges and Bulgarians with bands you won't need to pay a gym in the case that you just want to get fit and Strong.
Yeah, why go to a place designated to work out when you can just do lunges in the living room and generally save 10 bucks on doing a jail workout in the comfort of never leaving your home and meeting other people. Great advice.
It was a well-balanced diet, but the calories were drastically reduced, going down to 1,200-1,500 a day (and on occasion slightly lower). He speaks about this on other videos on this channel.
Yes, I believe Mike would agree that chins are just as good as lat pulldowns, providing that, once you hit 10 repetitions, there is a way of increasing resistance in a safe fashion. Mike dropped rows from the program simply because of the overlap involved when doing pulldowns. He preferred pulldowns as they provided a greater range of motion, and also involve the biceps muscles to a greater degree than a pronated grip does when doing barbell rows.
Mike, exalted the gimnasts bodies ,I agree, they have beautiful upper bodies. The question is: How do they develop those bodies if ,number one, they only lift their bodies,,number two, they do way more volumen that any professional bodybuilder ,number tree , they do not train to failure and number four, I doubt they use PEDs . So this issue contradicts totally Mike's heavy duty philosophy of training. Why Mike never commented on this? Any thoughts, John Little?
Yeah, I have a couple of thoughts. One, Mike was discussing bodyweight exercises (chins and dips) when he referenced the gymnasts; two, gymnasts are no strangers to steroid use; and three, Mike wasn’t saying you should do a gymnast’s parallel bars or high bar routine for your workouts but that chin ups and dips will effectively stimulate all of the major muscle groups in the upper body. Taking these exercises to a point of failure will be an effective way of stimulating muscle growth and performing them under strict, muscular control (rather than in the high force manner gymnasts incorporate them into their routines) will also be a safer way to employ these movements.
@@HEAVYDUTYCOLLEGE Yes, John, I agree with him that with those two exercises you can develop great upper bodies, you can confirm that going to any public park and watching all those guys with very nice bodies doing only those two exercises, but again, they do that daily and with lots of volume. To me that is very confusing. As I said in another comment below, I was Mike's phone client many years ago, also I know very well Dorian, I train heavy duty style since then but I repeat, for me this is very confusing I wish he explained that when he was with us. Sorry for my english.
@@pelonete5000 Your English is fine. However, I think you’re missing Mike’s point. He was talking about performing those two exercises for the upper body. For those who might think that those two exercises would not be enough, he pointed out that gymnasts tend to use those only those two movements (dips and chins) and are able to build muscular upper bodies. Therefore, you don’t have to worry if those two exercises will not be enough to build your upper body muscles. That was all he was saying. He was not discussing the fact that gymnasts have to practice their routines many times over in order to perfect them, he was only speaking about the value of the exercises in terms of the muscles that are activated by those two movements.
His theory was that the ability to tolerate the type of effort required to stimulate and produce muscular mass increases varies across a broad genetic continuum, with some people able to tolerate more of it and others not so much. The majority of people do not have the ability to tolerate high volumes of exercise performed frequently, nor the genetic endowment to grow muscle easily. He further stated that it was up to the individual to find out the practical application of volume and frequency for themselves. The gymnast analogy doesn’t disprove this, particularly when he is referencing Olympic-level athletes who, clearly, are well beyond the norm in terms of their genetic endowment for muscular coordination and strength. Moreover, the point of his analogy was intended to show that a dip and a pulldown motion, such as a gymnast would use on the rings or the high bar, are the primary exercises they use and yet their torsos are tremendously muscular. In other words one doesn’t need to a variety of exercises for each muscle group in order to make them bigger and stronger.
@@HEAVYDUTYCOLLEGE Very true. I spent quite a few years on the wrestling mat and observed the same among us wrestlers: We essentially all did the same high volume wrestling sessions with lots of calesthetics, and while many became lean with above average muscularity, only a small handful developed highly developed physiques due to the broad genetic differences and individual exercise tolerances.
I agree with you. As a matter of fact I just posted the same topic. And the answer John gave you is not very convincing to me. BTW, I train in a heavy duty style (and was a Mike phone client), but this kind of issues really make me think that there is much more to understand. John says that this olympic athletes have the genetics to tolerate volume, but way more volume that a professional bodybuilder? This athletes train daily for hours and hours.
@@pelonete5000 look at very early pictures of Mike and he was already incredible, potentially. Same with reeves, etc. A lot of what we are looking at is genetics. Not just in recovery. If Ray Mentzer was the ambassador for HIT would we be talking about it as much? And Ray was good. He just wasn't Mike in physique or the communication skills.
Deeps for pecs it depends on how your body reacts, to say they are the best is just a matter of opinion, I don’t feel deeps in my pecs… fullstop. Some people do. Having said that I do feel deeps in my triceps. But not just any deeps. There use to be two cylindrical palls in my children’s park so I would approach them come between them and hit that deep, could only do 5 reps could of month down the line I was at 20 reps body weight.,. My triceps exploded literally. When I went to join a gym first time and told the guy showing me around that I was hitting them triceps at my kid’s park play ground he looked at me like I was insulting him .. He was like “ who you kidding?” With these strong arms you want me to believe that junk 😢!! That’s when I knew these deeps at the park were definitely doing something. Down the line I moved away to another town and decided to buy a triceps deep station on Amazon. After setting it up, it looked like a V shape station. They claimed it was the best position for deeps. Well it’s not 😮.. I never ever got to achieve the same pump I got with the cylindrical polls at kid’s playing ground, and with that station I was adding weight on my weighing belt easily still no pump. Didn’t understand why. Simple changing the angle of my usual straight cylindrical polls to a v station on Amazon ruined my entire deep exercise . I know what I need I need to straight polls again.
Man I miss Mike Mentzer. Wish I could've attended one of his seminars when he was with us. RIP
He’s not lying. I went to prison all they had was pull up and dip stations on the yard. (They took the weights out because they didn’t want the inmates getting to strong). But i was amazed at how big these dudes were and all they did were dips and pull ups and all natural no cycle.
Dips have without doubt packed on the most muscle and size in my routine. It’s incredible how true it is. Thanks Mike!
Do you do weighted dips? I’m kinda thin need to do a million dips to get a pump. Kinda similar with pull-ups too.
@@jpm7049yeah I do them weighted. I add weight each session. I don’t worry about a pump - I just focus on adding weight each session which means am getting stronger
If you can do more than the prescribed amount add weight @@jpm7049
Why you lie though?
@@jpm7049weighted dips is a must, going back to body weight dips it’s insane how light they feel, can easily crank out 25 bw dips for 3 sets
Remember this trainees when you're told you have to change or alter your routines & lifts because the muscle mags say so. Gymnasts don't do that & you see their physiques.
Agreed. All false propaganda to sell programs. Only reason to switch is boredom of excersise. If they work no reason to change. Adding weight or reps shocks the muscle you don’t need to change excersise. People are so naive
They don’t only train once or twice a week 😂 they developed their big muscles training for hours every day
@@Shagley Maybe not once a week but hours a day is not necessary. Leads to injury eventually
@@gporr7004 there’s only one reason as to how they can and do train for hours each day whilst perfecting their skills…. Steroids
@@Shagley I’ve done juice. Absolutely can train a ton on it evacuee you recover like you’re superhuman. I found a few sets low volume has actually worked wonders for me at 41 natural. I don’t do one set but 2-3 per excersise for 2 excersises each and I’ve gotten good results. Upper lower split. Don’t need tons of volume
Basics, Basics, Basics! I see these dudes in the gym with no muscle doing these isolation exercises because they saw their juiced up fitness influencer do it on Instagram.
Yes, I think the basis of a routine should be dips, chin ups, pull ups and pushups. You do isolation exercises to build areas where you are genetically weak to improve them. I have a naturally well developed chest from doing push ups since I was a kid, but my biceps and lower back are not as developed as I would like. So I do two back , bicep workouts a week, only one on chest and shoulders and of course.. I never skip leg day ; ] I usually do that as part of my second back routine.
Awesome comment 👏
So true, if you can't master the basics first, don't move onto advanced movements. It's like being handed the keys to a Porsche GT as your first car. However I must admit that I was at fault of doing all those isolation workouts with heavy volume when I was younger because that's all you would see on you tube at the time.
I finally got the courage to get better at dips and for the last 8 months or more I do them every single day no matter if it’s a back day or what. Completely changed my chest. My lower chest is damn near more dominant than the middle. Thank you Mike
Thanks Mentzer brother for all the research on bodybuilding ! I have put into practice the Mentzer's routines with amazing results. The recovery phase is one of the most important period in their routine as they stated.
This man was ahead of his time.
Just bought both books on Amazon. I''m going though each and everyone of these videos on this channel. I can't believe more people to know this is more than gold this is diamonds of knowledge.
Which books?
That is like saying acupuncture is more advanced than modern medical science.
@@timmian85 Horrible comparison. Mike Mentzer is preaching that you should pay attention to the basics, and focus on intense brief workouts with adequate recovery. All things which modern medicine has agreed is critical for muscle growth. So no, a pseudoscience like acupuncture is not at all comparable to Mike Mentzer's teachings.
@@blakeslide6919 tl;dr idiot
I train at home and I do Chin-ups and Dips in a controlled manner, as Mike recommended. My arms are always fried and I don't do any direct arm work.
@@dindrmindr626 None of those work the triceps, doesn't he do any pushing movements?
@@stu73ke dips 💪
@@stu73ke Dips most certainly work the tri's
@@stu73kedips are the best push exercise
@@SickplayaMright. Therefore theyre perfect at activating the triceps.
At least at my gym I have never seen anyone do the pull downs to failure like me… I am so grateful for Mike passing down this exercise, Which is one of my all-time favorites, but the dip bar in my gym seems a little too wide for me and I don’t know if I ever felt sore from dips. But I do go to complete failure and I feel like I fought my heart out during the dips and I hope and I mean I HOPE its really benefiting me. Because the next day after pull downs, I feel multiple muscles sore
Till failure 🏆🏆🏆
@@8MWm3e4b i think he means that the next day he is sore
Same the dip bars are also too wide in my gym and its really annoying but im gonna make them buy a better one, and i do pull ups instead of pulldowns i think they are way better and also more usefull in other sports and activity
the wider dip bars are great for chest, not so for triceps. You need a narrower dip bar for triceps.
I don't understand why pulldowns, and not same hand position pull-ups.
It's also my understanding that gymnasts get their biceps without weights simply by doing rope climbs, which is similar to the pulldown he's advocating here. They sit on the ground with their legs in a V position and pull themselves up while remaining in that position. Also as far as dips, they do a variation called Russian Dips. You have to be able to do that variation to do the various parallel bar moves. The Russian Dip is also the missing piece in muscle-up progressions.
A nice, Ill have to look into that. I cant for the life of me even begin to do a muscle up.. I gave up in frustration, maybe the Russian dip is the missing piece for me. Cheers ; ]
@@PhilMcCrackin-f3n Yeah even the Russian Dip is hard. I use parallel bars at my local park and slightly jump up into the position..I can't even pull myself up yet. There's also something called the False Grip used in rings which is a major component as well. There are certain progressions you do on the rings to get a ring muscle up and I imagine that's the best way to learn. I have some rings..they're great and there's really nothing harder. The gymnasts know what they're doing when it comes to strength I just follow them. Their methodical progressions will keep you from getting injured as well. I really recommend channels with a gymnast background like GMB Fitness, Gymnastics Method, GymnasticBodies, Sid Paulson etc.
@@PhilMcCrackin-f3n Also look into learning the False Grip on rings. Learning on rings is probably the best way to achieve the muscle up. There are all sorts of progressions to strengthen certain aspects of the movement because of being able to adjust the ring height. The gymnastics approach to progressions in general will keep you from getting injured as well. Rings are very difficult..worth having!
@@PhilMcCrackin-f3n I've been looking around and there's also something called the False Grip on rings which others say is essential. I imagine learning to do the muscle-up on rings while also practicing the Russian Dip on bars is the way to go. The great thing about having a set of rings is that they allow you to do all sorts of progressions to make it easier, but rings in and of themselves are about as difficult as it gets.
@@xheyderek3356 Cheers mate ; ]
Never got my biceps to blow up and peak until I started doing a lot of chipups.
can i still make my biceps bigger without creatine?
@@parthianwarrior1901 yes
@@mrjamesgrimes but how? so creatine make a big difference or a little difference ?
@@parthianwarrior1901never know unless you try
Im a skinny guy. When I was young I started doing chin ups off the bar in my closet. Im still skinny my biceps grew a lot and my back is my best muscle group now. I have done lots of curls but never got nearly as much growth from them. I truly believe the foundation of my body was built on chin ups dips and one legged squats.
The videos are pure gold. Thank you Mr Little! You could prepare some videos for your training programs as well.
Glad you like the videos, Dimitris. Right now I want to focus on ensuring Mike's legacy is preserved and his teachings are accessible to all. Perhaps at a later date I'll do some videos on my thoughts on training.
@@HEAVYDUTYCOLLEGE You are welcome Mr Little. Your introductory book in Bodybuilding was a bible for me:-)! By the way Marvin Eder's (natural) strenghth and muscles prove once for all how effective dips are!
Cross posting my comment on palms up close grip pulldowns from another video:
Tried this for the first time today. Hands shoulder width, but preferred closer together.
Sets to failure ---- slow, controlled, full ROM. It's absolutely bananas. Forearms, arms, even chest, all destroyed.
Don't sleep on this one, folks.
How many sets did you do? The Mentzer way would only be one set.
@@SmokyOle Three warmup sets, the third one being somewhat challenging. And then finally an all-out heavy set to failure, managing to squeeze in partial reps. This last set was torture. So three warmups, and then the main set.
@@cszabo8899do you also need to take the warm up sets till failure ? I am doing those sets till failure too
In warm-up sets use only 70 % of your
max weight
And never go for failure
Presently doing a 'consolidated routine' consisting of dips and reverse close grip bent-over barbell rows one working set each to failure plus one or two rest pause reps and finish off with slow negatives. Excellent combo! 💪
Why the rows over chins?
@@eoinforHIT mostly out of personal preference. I find they work better to build upper back thickness and the reverse grip puts secondary emphasis on the biceps.
@@nelacostabianco Yates switched to doing his famous rows Pronated because the bicep stress was dangerous especially after his tear
@@leolee6786 that would make sense but I don't think he tore it because he was using an underhand grip on his rows. Still one of the best exercises for back Imho 😉
@@nelacostabianco "you dont think". Funny how it is ALWAYS the supinated hand that gets a biceps tear when doing mixed grip deadlifts. Maybe you should think about it for a few more reps.
During wrestling all we did was dips and pullups. Ring dips ring pullups rope climbs. Crazy variations. No weight. But all taken to failure and not high volume but high intensity. Deff built alot of muscle and strength during in season and off season for wrestling.
Did your delts grow bigger
@@joshuajackson4161 100% it was our most developed body part along with our traps… the dips and pushups built our front delts and the pullups and rope climbs hit our rear delts… along with constant hand stand walks they made us too at the end of practice… best thing for us
What did you do for legs?
@@IrishJJ27 jump lunges, duck walks, forward squat jumps. We also would carry a teammate up flights of stairs that was in our weight class. And of course some air squats at the end
@@joshuajackson4161 deff. The handstand walks and handstand pushups helped
I learnt this from James from 88 Fitness Training who said he learnt from Mike Mentzer.
It's a staple in my training now.
I leaned forward a little bit during dips this morning, and wow. It hit my chest so hard! It made the exercise so much more difficult. I hope my form was okay. I can’t tell while I’m doing it.
You can do assisted dips by placing something behind you for your feet to rest on and work on form.
@@yojeli Yes. I did the dips on an assisted pull-up machine today, but it didn’t slide very well. It felt like I was pushing all of my weight on the way up. There’s another similar machine in the gym. I’ll try it next time.
Dips leaned forward (as much as you can) is the optimal way to preponderantly work the chest; you can do this by raising the knees toward the chest. Also, to engage the chest to the max, another important trick is to flare the arms/elbows. This are the dips for chest.
Dips for triceps are done with the body in a vertical position and arms tucked/closed to body.
Thank You Much Mike Menzer whatever You are for your hereteged.it's very appreciated today in 2022 👋.
Im not a big dude but im so glad i got great bicep genetics
Legend. Ready to listen this days
Amazing video, amazing intro and sound, thank you Mr John Little, we sincerely appreciate your work.
Thanks, Lyes. Much appreciated.
Also sprinting is a great muscle builder as well.
Yes, particularly calves and hamstrings.
Absolutely amazing to see the benefits explained and how well the results show. Great video
"Think of dips as the upper body Squat"
Well, when you put it that way 🥂
Mr. John,
You are doing tremendous job with this YT channel!
Very educational and, at the same time, in memory of great Mike Mentzer.
Respectfully, from Serbia!
PS: Maybe You can set some profile and topic photos with Mike and You for more attractiveness to the channel.
Thanks for the kind words, Slobodan. I’ve actually been thinking about that.
Nice ! these videos are gold ! keep it up bro ! Excellent no bs info !
Thanks. I will do my best.
Personally, l prefer seated machine dips. It's much easier on my shoulders, and l have more control of the range of motion. For Lats, l sometimes use the Max straps. Thanks for the advice, John. 👍💪💯
Nothing like the old school dip brother!
@@biglos5291 I'm pass middled age. Thus, I have to do what works best for me.
@@dbozexpat894 I'm 44 with bad shoulders, one is worse than the other. I do hundreds of manual dips a week. The secret of doing dips without injuring your shoulders is the same as it is for bench press or any other lift that involves your chest. You have to push back your shoulders and do your best to keep them "pinned together" while you are doing your dips. This keeps your shoulders out of the workout and stops them from being injured. Also, you don't need to go down super low, just go the same amount that you would when you are doing the machine dip.
@@p2a0p2e0r1 I'm over the age of 50 and have perfect working shoulders. I used to do dips, and got great results. However, l don't them anymore. Since my teens, l never did these marathon workouts (6 days a week) promoted in the bodybuilding magazines. 💪
Try doing some external rotation work for your rotator cuffs. Helps shoulder pain immensely
man, thanks for putting Mentzer's references in the video. Loving this content
So I have a question, should the close grip pull down as mentioned in the video by teacher Mike count as a biceps or dorsal exercise?
Both
Very true. Basics worked for me. Lots of time wasted on isolation, it should only compliment a workout.
The gymnasts are not even trying to gain muscle, far from it, muscle is heavy and a problem in their craft. They don’t train to failure - wouldn’t make sense for them to, they rely on repeated efforts/bouts.
That’ll show you the power of pull ups and dips. Add reps, add *gulp* volume, add weight , go to failure the odd time, eat a little over you calorie requirements and hey presto.
Gear helps too 😂
Long live Mike Mentzer
Check the biceps on the guys on Olympic rings. They don’t do curls
And FYI, as a skinny 53 years old man, with no progress in the gym for years, I started heavy duty training 4 weeks ago. Very good strength progress between workouts, of course that's just the beginning but let's see. I'll try to keep one workout every 7 days, even if that is really hard, as i feel enthusiastic about training and always want to go sooner. I'll resist and follow Mike's advice, as long as there is progress.
How's it been?
@@lisleigfried4660 sadly, overall it was disappointing. Strength progress continued, which was very good, and also the very intense but brief sessions seem to be indeed kinder to the joints, so definitely a plus. But the negative was the absence of muscle size gain. After 2 months, precise measurement including body fat showed I had no size increase, only strength. I realized it might be because I needed more calories (indeed I don't digest as well as 30 years ago, so tend to avoid overfeeding), so I tried for a couple of months to add an extra 500 to 700 calories, while maintaining a good balance of nutrients. I did gain weight, but precise measurements showed it was only fat :-(
It might be a decrease in T levels, I'm actually currently evaluting this. Sorry for the negative feedback. I lowered intensity since then, until I understand why I'm not progressing (when I was 18, I did gain a lot of size, like 40 pounds in 2 years, 30 lean 10 fat, so I know what it is, and definitely don't find anything comparable today, maybe age, or metabolism, or hormonal, hopefully I find out).
@@afco06 Maybe try looking into some more current literature and research than a guy who insists that training 20 minutes every 5 days with just one set per muscle group is optimal.
But i can tell you right now that you're not doing anything correctly according to modern day exercise science. Your volume and frequency is too low, you might as well not go to the gym.
Do you really think training briefly once every 7 days is going to justify bumping up your calories 500-700?! Jesus christ that is ALL fat, every single ounce of extra weight is going to be fat. For your sake i hope that is a weekly surplus and not daily.
If you are dead set on doing this HIT training style, that is fine, but i would strongly suggest you do it as Dorian Yates did it.
@@timmian85 Indeed I'm questionning the validity, at least for me. Mentzer's book is pretty convincing though. And I know for a fact that it works for some people. My early days training, with rapid gains, were indeed with higher volume, and higher calories. Probably need to find a compromise. I'll keep experimenting. Nothing should be ignored until tested. All theories are just this, theories, and I've never seen a real scientific proof that a particular routine works. It varies so much between people. The extra 500 cal were per day, but not a big deal, I'm also doing cardio between weight sessions.
@@afco06 Dorian Yates suggested beginners do a 3 day split, basically half a push pull legs routine. I would start there and you can play around with volume and intensity and figure out what works for you.
You could also google "minimalist workout routine" and see what comes up, those are short routines based around low volume and and taking things to failure.
ALSO, you have the (in)famous starting strength routine, which if i recall is just a 2-3x a week heavy barbell compound workout based on progressive overload in weight. Squats, bench, overhead press and deadlifts.
i tried those close pulldowns for biceps and fuck, they feel craazzy I felt like my biceps were struggling more than ever
Thanks John.
Thanks again for posting these, John.
One comment on the close grip pulldown and impact on biceps. Of course I agree that it works strongly and directly the biceps, in addition to lats and rear delts, that's pure mechanics. But about the fact that it is better than curl based on the fact that 2 joints are involved, I would comment that in the pulldown, the elbow movement is concentric yes, but in the shoulder it seems it is excentric, so the 2 joint movements seem opposite, aren't they ? Now it may be irrelevant as I suspect the biceps attachment in the shoulder joint is not equivalent to the elbow attachment. Feel free to share any opinion you may have on this.
I'd say it's a natural pulling motion so there's no problem. It's just overall better to do compound multi joint lifts. Biceps curls do have a place if you need extra work imo.
Correct analysis. Like anyone else, Mentzer didn’t know Everything. He gave great advice on a lot of things, but often his reasoning behind the advice wasn’t fantastic. But he is a legend nonetheless
Thanks John!!
RIP Mike.
The Greatest Mind and Body.
Trust me guys, trap bar deadlift low handle, chin up, ring dips
What's the difference between pull downs and chin-ups?
Pull downs is for hypertrophy mostly and pullups give you both, especially strength, that you can then use to pulldown more 🫡 Most people shy away from pullups cause they look silly and can't execute 1 complete rep
Pulldowns won't help pullups, only mass amount of pullups help you pullup better!
Most gymnasts develop big biceps through the exercises on rings, especially static exercises like horizont when the biceps are in a super stretched position and overwhelmed. This I know from my friend who half of his life gymnast.
The are lots of strong calisthenics people who can do lots of pull-ups with big weights, but I never see anyone who is even close in biceps size and form to those guys (gymnasts) who specialize in rings.
Agreed, rings are unmatched for upper body development more so than parallel bars and nothing beats doing cross on rings for biceps.
Would close grip chin ups work if one does not have access to a pull down machine?
Absolutely.
How do dips work the delts, since the arms are pushing downward?
If you Google muscles worked in dips you will see that the anterior deltoid is involved during the exercise. Here is one example: kinxlearning.com/pages/bar-dips
@@HEAVYDUTYCOLLEGE Ahh, shoulder flexion, thanks! My gym only has angled rather than parallel bars, which makes dips rather uncomfortable.
I have subscribed to your channel, John. Really enjoying the content and have just completed the 4th day of training, I do have a question though, can you or anyone else who reads this tell me where I can get the Heavy Duty (1 and 2) by Mr Mentzer. Amazon do not have any and I have been looking but can find no one selling them.
Unfortunately, they are no longer in print. The ones I’ve seen for sale on eBay are ridiculously overpriced. Hopefully that will change in the future.
Are dips good for upper pec development? I think push ups are better, ppl just dont do them correctly.
dips is mainly lower chest, push ups for upper chest would have to be on a decline with feet elevated on a surface, those are killer.
dips and decline push ups with a weight vest will make your chest explode
I dont feel the bicep with the close grip, someone knows how to do it properly?
🤔 I guess make sure you’re not leaning back. It should be a straight up and down motion.
Also, try narrowing your grip a bit more
i prefer pull ups, but yeah, guy's completely right. i haven't done a bench press or bicep curl in years, still jacked af. the gymnast workout is king, accept no substitutes. buy a pair of rings already.
Love these ❤️❤️❤️
A lot of trainers will tell you that dips are "bad" because it replaces many machines and weights...if you do pull ups, dips, lounges and Bulgarians with bands you won't need to pay a gym in the case that you just want to get fit and Strong.
Yeah, why go to a place designated to work out when you can just do lunges in the living room and generally save 10 bucks on doing a jail workout in the comfort of never leaving your home and meeting other people. Great advice.
@@timmian85 except if you.. live away from gyms? like 25 miles...
where can we watch the full video?
Why isnt dip in the "ideal workout routine"?
It is. It's the second part of the superset of Triceps Pressdowns and Dips during the arm routine (Workout 3).
Thank you veru much!!!!!
yeah dips are awesome, BUT you got to get the right width dip bars, if they are too wide, your shoulder joints will be destroyed
Vince Gironda said 32”s is best. Vince is who mentzer, Arnold, Larry Scott, original got this info.
Truth!
ANyone got link for whole presentation?
Can that pulldown be substituted by a chin up?
Yes with variations of time under tension and/or weighted
Wow
What grip he use?
So i bought a dip station now...
Nice!
Do you know what his cutting diet looked like? Only found a bulking one and how much he trained while cutting hut Never an example of the cutting diet
It was a well-balanced diet, but the calories were drastically reduced, going down to 1,200-1,500 a day (and on occasion slightly lower). He speaks about this on other videos on this channel.
@@HEAVYDUTYCOLLEGE I’ll take a look🙏
Would Mike agree that chin ups would be just as good as lat pulldown? And i see in his routine rhere were no rows of any kind. Any reason for that?
Yes, I believe Mike would agree that chins are just as good as lat pulldowns, providing that, once you hit 10 repetitions, there is a way of increasing resistance in a safe fashion. Mike dropped rows from the program simply because of the overlap involved when doing pulldowns. He preferred pulldowns as they provided a greater range of motion, and also involve the biceps muscles to a greater degree than a pronated grip does when doing barbell rows.
@@HEAVYDUTYCOLLEGE thanks for the reply! I can't get enough of your videos
@@scorchrp6871 I’m glad you are enjoying them.
Will chin ups build a thick back or do i still need backrows an shrugs?
Not really
ohmy god time to start gimnastics....
Mike, exalted the gimnasts bodies ,I agree, they have beautiful upper bodies.
The question is: How do they develop those bodies if ,number one, they only lift their bodies,,number two, they do way more volumen that any professional bodybuilder ,number tree , they do not train to failure and number four, I doubt they use PEDs .
So this issue contradicts totally Mike's heavy duty philosophy of training. Why Mike never commented on this? Any thoughts, John Little?
Yeah, I have a couple of thoughts. One, Mike was discussing bodyweight exercises (chins and dips) when he referenced the gymnasts; two, gymnasts are no strangers to steroid use; and three, Mike wasn’t saying you should do a gymnast’s parallel bars or high bar routine for your workouts but that chin ups and dips will effectively stimulate all of the major muscle groups in the upper body. Taking these exercises to a point of failure will be an effective way of stimulating muscle growth and performing them under strict, muscular control (rather than in the high force manner gymnasts incorporate them into their routines) will also be a safer way to employ these movements.
@@HEAVYDUTYCOLLEGE Yes, John, I agree with him that with those two exercises you can develop great upper bodies, you can confirm that going to any public park and watching all those guys with very nice bodies doing only those two exercises, but again, they do that daily and with lots of volume. To me that is very confusing. As I said in another comment below, I was Mike's phone client many years ago, also I know very well Dorian, I train heavy duty style since then but I repeat, for me this is very confusing I wish he explained that when he was with us. Sorry for my english.
@@pelonete5000 Your English is fine. However, I think you’re missing Mike’s point. He was talking about performing those two exercises for the upper body. For those who might think that those two exercises would not be enough, he pointed out that gymnasts tend to use those only those two movements (dips and chins) and are able to build muscular upper bodies. Therefore, you don’t have to worry if those two exercises will not be enough to build your upper body muscles. That was all he was saying. He was not discussing the fact that gymnasts have to practice their routines many times over in order to perfect them, he was only speaking about the value of the exercises in terms of the muscles that are activated by those two movements.
@@HEAVYDUTYCOLLEGE Hi John, Did you erase my last reply? Just asking.
@@pelonete5000 No. I haven’t seen your last reply.
1:31
Ive never seen anyone else use such slow tempo
Get strong on pull ups and dips and you'll have a well developed upper body no question
What would you classify as strong on these exercises? Weight or reps?
@@skad2485 basic high volume bodyweight supersets of pull ups and dips 💪 never fails
Looks to me like the gymnast analogy would disprove Mentzers theory of over training
His theory was that the ability to tolerate the type of effort required to stimulate and produce muscular mass increases varies across a broad genetic continuum, with some people able to tolerate more of it and others not so much. The majority of people do not have the ability to tolerate high volumes of exercise performed frequently, nor the genetic endowment to grow muscle easily. He further stated that it was up to the individual to find out the practical application of volume and frequency for themselves. The gymnast analogy doesn’t disprove this, particularly when he is referencing Olympic-level athletes who, clearly, are well beyond the norm in terms of their genetic endowment for muscular coordination and strength. Moreover, the point of his analogy was intended to show that a dip and a pulldown motion, such as a gymnast would use on the rings or the high bar, are the primary exercises they use and yet their torsos are tremendously muscular. In other words one doesn’t need to a variety of exercises for each muscle group in order to make them bigger and stronger.
@@HEAVYDUTYCOLLEGE Very true. I spent quite a few years on the wrestling mat and observed the same among us wrestlers: We essentially all did the same high volume wrestling sessions with lots of calesthetics, and while many became lean with above average muscularity, only a small handful developed highly developed physiques due to the broad genetic differences and individual exercise tolerances.
@@johntaylor5288 Thanks for your post.
I agree with you. As a matter of fact I just posted the same topic. And the answer John gave you is not very convincing to me. BTW, I train in a heavy duty style (and was a Mike phone client), but this kind of issues really make me think that there is much more to understand. John says that this olympic athletes have the genetics to tolerate volume, but way more volume that a professional bodybuilder? This athletes train daily for hours and hours.
@@pelonete5000 look at very early pictures of Mike and he was already incredible, potentially. Same with reeves, etc. A lot of what we are looking at is genetics. Not just in recovery. If Ray Mentzer was the ambassador for HIT would we be talking about it as much? And Ray was good. He just wasn't Mike in physique or the communication skills.
The intros are way too long.
Don’t watch them then.
Double tap to fast forward
Deeps for pecs it depends on how your body reacts, to say they are the best is just a matter of opinion, I don’t feel deeps in my pecs… fullstop.
Some people do.
Having said that I do feel deeps in my triceps.
But not just any deeps.
There use to be two cylindrical palls in my children’s park so I would approach them come between them and hit that deep, could only do 5 reps could of month down the line I was at 20 reps body weight.,.
My triceps exploded literally.
When I went to join a gym first time and told the guy showing me around that I was hitting them triceps at my kid’s park play ground he looked at me like I was insulting him ..
He was like “ who you kidding?” With these strong arms you want me to believe that junk 😢!!
That’s when I knew these deeps at the park were definitely doing something.
Down the line I moved away to another town and decided to buy a triceps deep station on Amazon.
After setting it up, it looked like a V shape station. They claimed it was the best position for deeps.
Well it’s not 😮.. I never ever got to achieve the same pump I got with the cylindrical polls at kid’s playing ground, and with that station I was adding weight on my weighing belt easily still no pump.
Didn’t understand why.
Simple changing the angle of my usual straight cylindrical polls to a v station on Amazon ruined my entire deep exercise .
I know what I need I need to straight polls again.
Can Pulldowns be replaced with Chin Ups? They seem to be similar movement.
Yes.
he knew... back then already jesus...
Ikr