I am impressed at Mike Mentzer's ability to explain concepts and new information like you're having a regular conversation with him. It's so simple yet fascinating.
@terrymedlicott3580 No, it is not. This channel is owned by Mike's personal best friend John Little and he has been uploading his works for quite some time now.
@@terrymedlicott3580The audio is from a phone interview that Mike did with Bill Phillips, who was then the publisher of muscle media 2000, a bodybuilding magazine. While it’s true that Mike has been gone for over two decades, he did leave behind a considerable amount of audio recordings; some recorded over the phone, others in a studio. None of this is AI generated.
i have trained for 15 years including competing in bodybuilding, done steroids etc...im on trt now and i only train 1-2 times a week. i wanted to train 3 times a week but i started my own construction company and work is really hectic. basicly this month i have trained 4 times...yes thats correct i trained 4 times in 4 weeks. i did legs 2 weeks ago, back and BI yesterday and i did shoulders and triceps 2 times this month...sounds preety stupid right ? but heck im gaining every time. basicly what im saying. you can tke 2-3 weeks rest without any training and u will come back stronger, as long as u train really heavy when u first are in the gym, so now my 3 day splitt i try to do them every other 2 weeks....so first week is monday leggs wensday back and bi, sunday shoulders triceps....week 2 rest week 3 training again week 4 no gym all rest...this fucking works bro
Ive just finished my third cycle of Mike's training program roughly 6 weeks in. I cant believe how strong im getting in that short amount on time. The resting between work outs is a game changer! Keep at it!
I'm so thankful I found this channel two years ago. I'm on vacation right now going way off my diet & not training. If not for Mentzer & John Little I'd be self-defeating. This video specifically is helping me mentally get past those resentful sentiments.
I took 12 weeks off this Spring. Are the same macro-spread but at maintenance. Wasn’t exactly sedentary as I have a physical job, but nothing akin to weight training. When I got back to the gym I had lost no strength or body weight, and within 2 weeks had returned to a similar aesthetic state as before. Rest is wonderful and the importance of training all the time is exaggerated.
The man is right about rest and recovery. It takes time. You gotta give the nervous system AND the muscles time to recover. Weight training hits your nervous system hard. Especially HIT. I take three days off sometimes, but never more than 4.
Overtraining is a real thing but you and most people will never reach that point even if you train everyday. That's cuz you are worried of overtraining even before getting the workout in. Also just think about farmers and military people. Overtraining is an absolute must in their training regimen. Somehow they are still as strong(or even stronger) as people who dont overtrain.
@@arindamadhikary1844 Military people are bad examples. The main purpose of their regimen is to get them used to stress in extreme situations as much as possible. The military isn't about getting big or hitting PRs, it's about being able to carry out the required objective even if it kills you.
@@excalibro8365 and?? They are still almost just as strong as your "big" bodybuilder + more endurance + more functional strength than your "big" bodybuilder + not lacking flexibility like your "big" bodybuilder
I used to lift weight for some time, i got strong as fuck but got nothing to show for it, aesthetics wise. I recently got back into it, followed mentzer's advice and waddya know.. im seeing results, way more than i expected. Rest is so so important.
Recovery happens in order of first CNS, then DOMS, and lastly swelling. This process can take anywhere from 2-7+ days depending on genetics and the intensity and/or volume of the workout done. This is shown in studies now and Mike knew this decades before. I'm grateful to have found Mike's wisdom through your channel John. It has helped me understand the true nature of exercise science specifically bodybuilding. Thank you!
@@steelphantom9105 Yes that would be a great starting point. The frequency and volume will depend on the individual. Best to keep a training log to track and regulate the program as you go on.
This was a fantastic post because this is exactly what I feel. I feel worked like a mofo right after, the fatigue and soreness sets in for like a day or two after and then on the third day or so I feel like Superman.
I got injured using my previous training regimen since I overtrained and didn't allow the muscles to rest properly. Even with an inadequate training regimen ,sleep and diet, I still managed to be around 95kg around 18% ( I don't take gear). I will resume training again using Mike's principles. Before, I'd train Monday, Wednesday & Friday. I felt I wasn't getting enough rest and discovered the first 2 days after an intense workout, my muscles were still exhausted and sore. However, after 3 days have elapsed, I always felt fully recovered. I'm looking forward to the progress I will make using these principles. I am well aware I am genetically gifted and want to see the peak physique I can achieve naturally.
Even further background information, I started at 155lbs at 30% body fat, after 3 months I then went up to 175lbs at 16% body fat. I took a few months off then I started training again and went around 93-95 kg at 18% body fat. I kept fluctuating between 18-20% since I didn't train very much due to injuries. In total, I was sidelined for 10 months because of the injuries. Which brings us to the present, where I will begin training again.
2:12 Training every 3-4 days. So what Mike is saying for this example is Monday chest & back, Thursday arms & shoulders, Sunday legs. 3 days rest cycle -- or 9 days total before you return to chest & back. The 4 day rest cycle would be 12 days before repeating chest & back. I'm doing a minimum of 15 days before I repeat chest & back workout. It's just that life gets busy. I have more to do than spend time in the gym. But it's working for me. John, I was convinced back in 2007 when I first discovered your books. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you !
@@steelphantom9105 When I do Mentzer/John Little high intensity type training, my muscles grow. I remember at one point, I lifted 825 pounds for 1 second -- many years ago. That was really cool! But there have been years when I did not train or go to the gym at all (raising kids, marriage, you know). During those periods, my muscles grew weaker. But every time I return to CORRECT high intensity training, my muscles grow back quickly -- like 12 months. I've never reached my genetic potential yet, because of my own failings. Tbh, eating is the other half of the bodybuilding equation. I'm just recently getting free from my sugar addiction (worse than drugs in some ways). In a nutshell, I'm starting healthy keto & intermittent fasting (a good resource for me is DrEricBerg's youtube channel. He also agrees with High Intensity Training.) I hope this time to come closer to my potential. Hope this is helpful.
I've made the best progress by training only twice a week, about 45 mins per session. It might seem nothing to those used to volume training, but it can be very effective when done intensely. And always enough time to recover and grow until the next session.
you also can do high volume training sessions but the frequency has to be adequate to your recovery, HIT is just more efficient way but both systems give same results if done correctly
@@steelphantom9105 After some experimenting I found out that this works best FOR ME: Day 1: Back + Biceps (week 1) Day 2: Chest + Triceps Day 3: Legs + Fore-arms (week 2) Day 4: Shoulders + Traps Which comes down to every muscle twice a month, but of course there is a lot of overlapping.
For years I've only trained 3 times a week,1 hour at a time,very high intensity, Monday chest shoulders and triceps,weds back biceps and traps, Friday legs,rest Tuesday and Thursday and Saturday and Sunday, you'll grow like a weed so long as you're eating well and sleeping well, you'll grow even more if you're enhanced,natty or not this is how everyone should train
@@DonnieBrascoolike how Dorian Yates trained he did short warm up set and then 1 set too failure i remember him saying he would get his workout done in 1 hour
I always keep thinking that the food and supplement industry are covering up the truth about how many rest days you need. Supplement industry wants you to take their products often, so they would be against bodybuilders taking longer rest days. I truley believe longer rest days are vital!
Im doing full body three times a week, 12 exercises one set. Same routine every time. At 52 this is working for me really well. Any more than 3 times a week is overkill for a natural. Every five weeks I do a split routine for a week to shake it up, then back to full body. I love it, as I get stronger and need more recovery I'm going to reduce the workouts to twice a week. Monday and Friday.
@@owenboyd8817 Just one set mostly all out, leave one in the tank. By the end I'm pretty wiped out. I was hurting myself all the time doing volume but I haven't had so much as an ache since I started this routine. Growing way faster too.
So true especially when you're 67-year-old body builder you need time to rest. The only thing you're doing if you keep on doing days in a row is just go through the motion and have sore joints and get weaker and lose muscle. That's great advice.
God bless you, John. I hope you are doing well. I have completed my 1 year experiment following Mikes axioms of truth and I am going to release the results very, very soon.
First time in the gym i struggled with 30kg on the incline bench. Since i started the program it went to 40kg 3-5 reps, 42.5kg 5 reps and last time i did 42.5 for 7 reps. In 4 days (on the fourth) i have chest again. For the person reading this, feel free to experiment wirh 1 day of rest instead of 2 since leg day already isnt exhausting the upper body. Yes tour whole energy reserve is used to recover the legs but thats a whole extra rest day for the upper body. I do chest/back rest legs/abs rest arms/delts rest legs/abs rest repeat
I'm natural and train twice a week or once in 5 to 6 working days.. works for me .. occasionally take longer breaks and find I'm stronger and lifting heavier more easily Different strokes for different folks. just gotta find what works for you.
As a natural I can only train each muscle once a week. I’ve tried twice a week and can tell I haven’t fully recovered. Typically in winter I’ll train specific muscles 5 days a week which I find has worked for me. Might change that to 2-3 days a week.
I did a high intensity workout for biceps and it's been 3 days and I still have pain in my biceps. Just shows that the muscle is not fully recovered even after 3 whole days, If U workout hard enough. Before if it was like my usual bicep workout the pain would only last about a day or two utmost
I am one of those guys who take longer to recover. Mike sad it was common for individuals taller than 6 feet. I am above feet 6 tall. I haven't reduced the number of exercises but increased the number of days of rest. I still grow stronger.
Question, but mike here say's something about eliminate arms and shoulders if you are over lapping, and just focus on the back and chest and legs. Is there a training program for that?
Now how do I know when I exceded the recivery time and started detraining? And lets say i do not get sore and after 48 i feel fine and ready to go again, should I just go on and train again or should I wait? How do I actually know when the over compensation has take place? Thanks
Ah it makes sense now, he says overlapping is over training! Best bodybuilding philosophy ever! My only question is how long can you go without working out until you start to lose your gains / muscle mass?
You can find that out by trying. The orthodox opinion claims it is about a month, even shorter for older lifters, but experience shows me even this is nonsense. If you have e.g. 7+ days between arm workouts and you notice strength gains and retained mass, you're good. Try fewer days and more days and see what happens. According to how good your recovery is.
I have been training mike mentzer workout routine for 7 months now . I got so much bigger. Working out for three years consistently won't even get this much results. I am taking 4-5 rest days. Should i increase it into 7 rest days . Please reply
when i first started training like 40 years ago , it was 4 days a week up to 2 hours a session GROSSLY overtrained , now its once a week for 20 minutes and im looking mighty fine at 66
@@MrProzacmilkshake one set to failure on everything .. 4 sec up pause 4 seconds down..leg ext, leg biceps, one legged calf raises .. lat pulldown, lat row, chest press , pec deck , side laterals , dumbell presses , rope triceps , biceps dumbells , thats it
I’m 55 i train half boxing program and half weights on a Sunday and wednesday and only boxing on a Friday each session is about 40mins. The weights part is probably only 15 minutes per workout so 30 minutes a week and i am getting bigger and stronger.
How can I tell if I’m not completely recovered yet and need more rest days than was mentioned in the suggested plan? Other than still feeling sorenesss in the muscle I worked out, is there something else I should be on the lookout for?
In Mike’s Heavy Duty 2 book he talks about how you should feel pretty amped and ready to go + one extra day. Meaning you feel good to go again, ready to lift on a Sunday, and then wait one more day til Monday to train. Personally I’d say you should see how your body reacts. You know it was too soon if you go to the gym and you’re feeling weak and sore and everything feels heavier and you’re just tired. Take note of that and add a few more rest days in.
It depends on intensity and your goals too though. If you’re not training to failure which is what he advocates you can train more often. If you enjoy getting a pump only you can train more often.
The point is that training to failure reduces the time spent and increases the recovery time. Volume training is much more work, more frequently to achieve a similar level of fatigue over time. Why would anyone want to do that?
High volume full body workouts every other day or 60-72 hours. Listen to your body. Some days where I sleep well, eat well, and have less life stress, I can go the next day. Listen to your body!
You're training for different goals. High volume full body workouts every other day is not optimized for maximizing muscle growth in a non-enhanced body.
@@abu.nahiyannah it all depends The body is designed to lift everyday for survival that's how farmers and construction workers get big Anything humans do to get stronger in a natural setting is done daily that's how the body's designed even ask Joe Rogan
I agree...if I feel great I train...if I feel a little off or tired I don't train...I can train 2 to 3 days in a row and feel great...it just depends on how my body feels...working out is not an exact science imo...what works for one person may not work for another...I do mostly bodyweight workouts like pushups, dips and pullups and mix in some free weights in between....what made the difference for me is high rep pullups...that was a game changer for me as I had been stagnant in my growth for years it seems.
Question: Does the rest period also include no cardio? So if I work out on Monday but I'm also training for a 5k. Do I also stop training for the 5k while I'm resting my body from the intense weight training I did on Monday?
Training for size and strength (Heavy Duty) and training for endurance (a 5k) are polar opposites. If running a 5k is your goal, then focus your training on that by practicing the 5k run. When you've accomplished that, and if you want to get bigger and stronger, then switch over to Heavy Duty the way it was prescribed by Mike Mentzer. If you try to combine the two approaches, you will get a little bit of improvement in each, but not maximal improvement in either as you will be splitting the stimulus (i.e., 50% for endurance and 50% percent for strength and size). Plus the supplemental road work will also use up your recovery resources, resulting in diminishing your progress (in terms of size and strength).
@HEAVYDUTYCOLLEGE Awesome, thank you for the excellent feedback! So, just to be clear, if I'm working on intensive lifting, let that be my source of cardio, correct? No light walking on an incline, nothing?
@@LeeJohn007 The only way to engage the cardiovascular system at all is through mechanical muscular work, and the more demanding the muscular work, the stronger the cardiovascular stimulus (which is why you can peddle a bike on a flat roadway and not be winded, but peddling up a steep hill - even for as little as 20-20-seconds - will leave you out of breath). However, again, if your goal is to run a 5k, then train specifically for that and come back to Heavy Duty when (and if) your goal becomes to build size and strength.
Is this conversation before or after he recommended The Ideal Workout of Heavy Duty 2? Chest/Back, Legs (Leg Press/ Leg Extension & Calfs), Shoulders and Arms, Legs (Squats/ Leg Press & Calfs) with 3 days in between workouts.
@@dextermorgan7764 Not really; maybe the modified consolidation program (1998), but the principles and the suggested workouts remained pretty much the same.
Yes guys most people don’t know if you hit a PB it’s 10 days before you should attempt another PB I’ve implemented this and went 316 - 666 - 1000 pushups in a month with 10 days rest in between
Hello John, I need your help with this ( and anyone else reading this you are most welcome ) I read mike's book high intensity training and he mentioned that as we progress by reps and or weight ( let's assume i went past 10 or more reps using a certain weight ) we should increase our weight ( intensity ) by 10%, but how do you calculate that ? I did try but i don't think i did get it right I get what mike mean to say " pick a weight which allows you to go back to the rep range of 6 to 10" and that's pretty easy doing it with your own head just by visualizing and estimating which weight to pick ( and by my experience in person a 5 to 2.5kg is enough ) but i am looking for a precise calculation, and that's because im building an app where we can keep track of workout and progress.
It means sense for a natural bodybuilder or weight trainee can't do workout following day. Body needs recovery for growth & repair of muscles. When a bodybuilder abled to do workout 6 days a week & growing you'll know they're on roids
Not true i work out 4-5 days a week for average of 2-3 hours seperate body part each day. I listen to my body when im tried i take a day off every 2 months i take a week off. My body looks insane Its all about what works for you Stop listening to other people
No protein shakes 95% vegetarian diet lots of natural vitamin pills water lots of sleep gospel music or listen to sermons being preached in the GYM no masturbation or sex till marriage
@@BradLydiaP when i stopped eatimg meat i put on more weight. Meat is dead flesh. Dead flesh has no nutrition. Vegetables are alive if you take a vegetable a plant it, it will grow and produce more vegetables. Try doing that with a peice of meat and see what happens. The meat you eating could have come from anywhere it could have been stored in a frozen for 10 years before it gets to you and full of chemicals and preservers. You wanna to eat chicken and beef but what did the chicken and cows eat???? Grass and corn!!! think about it GOD bless
A progress chart is simply a training logbook wherein you keep a record of the exercises you perform, the weights used, the repetitions completed and the days off in between workouts. If what you're doing in terms of exercise is spaced properly, then you will be going up in reps, weights or both each and every workout. If what you're doing is only enough to allow you to recover from your exercises, then your reps and weights will stay the same; and if what you're doing is not enough to allow you to recover from your exercises, your reps and/or weights will be going down. Your training logbook is your source of feedback and thus will give you answers regarding whether or not adding exercises, days off, changing your nutritional intake, etc., is moving your closer or further away from achieving your goals.
You are torturing your mind and body for just 15 min of pump not muscle growth. Your brain will release dopamine thinking that you have achieved something harder by working out two hours everyday . Think smart .you don't grow during workout you grow during rest days
I promise you this is 100% facts also you know this within your heart of hearts if you have ever planted anything in the ground and saw it grow you didn't plan it 15 times you playing it a couple of seeds put some fertilizer in it and in season it grew in time it grew and you kept watering it and it grew more after a week or two imagine planning and digging up the same seed 8 to 12 times day after day lol you just delayed the growth process everyday you do that
It depends on the individual's personal rate of recovery and adaptation (which is a genetic trait that varies across a broad continuum). Some can recover relatively quickly (24-48 hours), most require 3-4 days, and some require 5-7 (or longer) days off in between workouts. That's why Mike recommended that you track your workouts (exercises, weights, repetitions) in a logbook. If you are progressing in weight and repetitions, then you are allowing adequate time for your personal rate of recovery and adaptation from the workouts. If you are staying the same, then you are allowing for recovery but not enough time for adaptation (growth). And, if your weights and/or reps are going down, then you are not allowing enough time for recovery to take place in between workouts. Your logbook data should guide you, rather than an arbitrary number of days off between workouts. Also, as you grow stronger, the greater the demands on your energy reserves, which can extend your recovery periods (as it's an organic rather than mechanical process), so you will (over time) have to drop out certain exercises from the program in order to continue to progress, and also allow additional rest days to provide your body with the time it requires to recover its energy reserves and produce the adaptation that your workouts have demanded.
I think the part about the routine that cuts out overlap is good for beginners, then do the routine he mentioned initially after getting a good base strength.
Would that also apply to people who are overweight and going to do their first session at the gym? If they are using weights (machines or free) they should not go down the next day but wait at least 48 hours? someone please reply.
You'll find the information Mike share in this video to be helpful: ruclips.net/video/SjzJ_rZzZ4A/видео.html (starting at 4:55). The workouts, it should be pointed out, are performed for the specific purpose of stimulating muscle growth. The non training or rest days are when the body recovers and adapts (grows) from the workout. Performing regimented "cardio" on your off days will compete for your recovery resources and compromise your progress. If weight loss is your primary goal, then follow Mike's advice in the video I have linked above.
I wait until the DOMS effect is completely gone. Sometimes it takes 3 days sometimes it takes 4 days. If it take less than 24 hours to subside then you really didn't get a proper workout.
The muscle needs approximately 48 to 72 hours to regenerate. the nervous system takes much longer. But why do you train so hard and damage the central nervous system instead of training so that you can train the muscle again after about 72 hours
What Mike said here is the least disputable and controversial of all the bodybuilding topics he covered...(the "one set" stuff was stupid but he only said use it as a starting point)...It's NOT the breakdown of local skeletal muscle during the intense workouts (how many people even have the balls to do a real high intensity workout?). Its the recovery of your nervous system that gets FRIED during the short intense workouts...The bottom line is if you feel like s hit from the last workout DO NOT go break yourself down again until you are recovered and 72 hours between is usually correct...
For me its simple. In my opinion you need to train every muscle 2-3 times a week. So what i have been doing. Is training full body 3 times a week. As a natural it gives good results. I cant imagine hitting chest once a week, thats just not going to work. However if you train extemely hard and too failure. Then this mike mentzer plan could work.
And on top of that say your requirement is say you're like me 230 lb right you need that much protein now if you take say 4 days of rest so divide 230 by 4 it's 55 g of protein per day. Much easier to consume isn't it
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I am impressed at Mike Mentzer's ability to explain concepts and new information like you're having a regular conversation with him. It's so simple yet fascinating.
You do realise this is AI generated and he is dead 23 years
@terrymedlicott3580 No, it is not. This channel is owned by Mike's personal best friend John Little and he has been uploading his works for quite some time now.
@@terrymedlicott3580The audio is from a phone interview that Mike did with Bill Phillips, who was then the publisher of muscle media 2000, a bodybuilding magazine. While it’s true that Mike has been gone for over two decades, he did leave behind a considerable amount of audio recordings; some recorded over the phone, others in a studio. None of this is AI generated.
Its not ai, he sounds bit like the ai voice people use for you tube shorts 😂
@@terrymedlicott3580dweeb.
My strength has gone up so much since I started resting more.
i have trained for 15 years including competing in bodybuilding, done steroids etc...im on trt now and i only train 1-2 times a week. i wanted to train 3 times a week but i started my own construction company and work is really hectic. basicly this month i have trained 4 times...yes thats correct i trained 4 times in 4 weeks. i did legs 2 weeks ago, back and BI yesterday and i did shoulders and triceps 2 times this month...sounds preety stupid right ? but heck im gaining every time. basicly what im saying. you can tke 2-3 weeks rest without any training and u will come back stronger, as long as u train really heavy when u first are in the gym, so now my 3 day splitt i try to do them every other 2 weeks....so first week is monday leggs wensday back and bi, sunday shoulders triceps....week 2 rest week 3 training again week 4 no gym all rest...this fucking works bro
Man I've been resting for 36 years and im still not gettin' any gains. I guess i need to rest more.
@@MeditationMindless It's probably your diet or your mindset man
@@SweetLuups maybd
@@brownpleasure9320Are you still doing the same ?
This makes so much more sense to me at 42 because my recovery time is longer, I can’t wait to start implementing this
Been doing this for about 3 weeks now, I literally add weight/reps to my workouts every 5 days
I'm 51, recovering from health issues.. this workout method still works!
Ive just finished my third cycle of Mike's training program roughly 6 weeks in. I cant believe how strong im getting in that short amount on time. The resting between work outs is a game changer! Keep at it!
I'm so thankful I found this channel two years ago. I'm on vacation right now going way off my diet & not training. If not for Mentzer & John Little I'd be self-defeating. This video specifically is helping me mentally get past those resentful sentiments.
I took 12 weeks off this Spring. Are the same macro-spread but at maintenance. Wasn’t exactly sedentary as I have a physical job, but nothing akin to weight training. When I got back to the gym I had lost no strength or body weight, and within 2 weeks had returned to a similar aesthetic state as before. Rest is wonderful and the importance of training all the time is exaggerated.
@@c.j.howard2857 Wow 12 weeks! 🤯
The man is right about rest and recovery. It takes time. You gotta give the nervous system AND the muscles time to recover. Weight training hits your nervous system hard. Especially HIT. I take three days off sometimes, but never more than 4.
What about if you do like three exercises 3-4 sets. Do i still need 2-3 days off?
Actually cardio hits it harder than weight.
@DYPSD absolutely it is. If you never allow your body to truly recover you are not at your full potential.
@@williebanks81 he's saying that's too little time for recovery, Mike himself said that at least 5 days
@@williebanks81
Perhaps there's a difference between rest and a hiatus.
How often do you workout in a week? and your rest periods?
The legendary Mike Mentzer.
GOOD STUFF !!😮 It’s so true , so many people are working so hard only to lack progress and even get smaller.
Overtraining is a real thing !
I don't know about the overtraining but I know for sure about injuries, crippling injuries 😢 .
I'd rather focus on resting and eating and miss a workout, then workout and over train.
Overtraining is a real thing but you and most people will never reach that point even if you train everyday. That's cuz you are worried of overtraining even before getting the workout in. Also just think about farmers and military people. Overtraining is an absolute must in their training regimen. Somehow they are still as strong(or even stronger) as people who dont overtrain.
@@arindamadhikary1844 Military people are bad examples. The main purpose of their regimen is to get them used to stress in extreme situations as much as possible. The military isn't about getting big or hitting PRs, it's about being able to carry out the required objective even if it kills you.
@@excalibro8365 and?? They are still almost just as strong as your "big" bodybuilder + more endurance + more functional strength than your "big" bodybuilder + not lacking flexibility like your "big" bodybuilder
I used to lift weight for some time, i got strong as fuck but got nothing to show for it, aesthetics wise.
I recently got back into it, followed mentzer's advice and waddya know.. im seeing results, way more than i expected. Rest is so so important.
Recovery happens in order of first CNS, then DOMS, and lastly swelling. This process can take anywhere from 2-7+ days depending on genetics and the intensity and/or volume of the workout done. This is shown in studies now and Mike knew this decades before.
I'm grateful to have found Mike's wisdom through your channel John. It has helped me understand the true nature of exercise science specifically bodybuilding. Thank you!
You’re welcome. All the best!
Would full body low to moderate volume (1-2 hard sets) be the way to train say twice (every 3-4 days) a week for most naturals?
@@steelphantom9105 Yes that would be a great starting point. The frequency and volume will depend on the individual. Best to keep a training log to track and regulate the program as you go on.
This was a fantastic post because this is exactly what I feel. I feel worked like a mofo right after, the fatigue and soreness sets in for like a day or two after and then on the third day or so I feel like Superman.
But some studies shows hit twice a week for protien synthesis? For natural lifters.. it's so confusing
100% agree with Mike. Trained Saturday and still feel exhausted.
I had all these tapes about 30 years ago. Good stuff.
Me too...I even received a phone call from Mike back in 1994 after I place an order...
@@dquinn8344 Wow what did he say?
I got injured using my previous training regimen since I overtrained and didn't allow the muscles to rest properly. Even with an inadequate training regimen ,sleep and diet, I still managed to be around 95kg around 18% ( I don't take gear).
I will resume training again using Mike's principles. Before, I'd train Monday, Wednesday & Friday. I felt I wasn't getting enough rest and discovered the first 2 days after an intense workout, my muscles were still exhausted and sore. However, after 3 days have elapsed, I always felt fully recovered.
I'm looking forward to the progress I will make using these principles. I am well aware I am genetically gifted and want to see the peak physique I can achieve naturally.
Even further background information, I started at 155lbs at 30% body fat, after 3 months I then went up to 175lbs at 16% body fat. I took a few months off then I started training again and went around 93-95 kg at 18% body fat. I kept fluctuating between 18-20% since I didn't train very much due to injuries. In total, I was sidelined for 10 months because of the injuries. Which brings us to the present, where I will begin training again.
I did every body part 1 set to failure, takes about 8 days for the nervous system to recover
2:12 Training every 3-4 days. So what Mike is saying for this example is Monday chest & back, Thursday arms & shoulders, Sunday legs. 3 days rest cycle -- or 9 days total before you return to chest & back. The 4 day rest cycle would be 12 days before repeating chest & back. I'm doing a minimum of 15 days before I repeat chest & back workout. It's just that life gets busy. I have more to do than spend time in the gym. But it's working for me. John, I was convinced back in 2007 when I first discovered your books. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you !
You’re very welcome! Thanks for your post.
Can you be more specific about your results from training this way?
I train Legs pull push each 14-16 days, it is similar train Tom platz Legs, but whitout anabolics
@@steelphantom9105 When I do Mentzer/John Little high intensity type training, my muscles grow. I remember at one point, I lifted 825 pounds for 1 second -- many years ago. That was really cool! But there have been years when I did not train or go to the gym at all (raising kids, marriage, you know). During those periods, my muscles grew weaker. But every time I return to CORRECT high intensity training, my muscles grow back quickly -- like 12 months. I've never reached my genetic potential yet, because of my own failings. Tbh, eating is the other half of the bodybuilding equation. I'm just recently getting free from my sugar addiction (worse than drugs in some ways). In a nutshell, I'm starting healthy keto & intermittent fasting (a good resource for me is DrEricBerg's youtube channel. He also agrees with High Intensity Training.) I hope this time to come closer to my potential. Hope this is helpful.
@@leavingbabylon3008 Are you doing the exact program as far as frequency and volume?
I've made the best progress by training only twice a week, about 45 mins per session. It might seem nothing to those used to volume training, but it can be very effective when done intensely. And always enough time to recover and grow until the next session.
Full Body or a Split routine?
COYS 👍🏼
you also can do high volume training sessions but the frequency has to be adequate to your recovery, HIT is just more efficient way but both systems give same results if done correctly
@@steelphantom9105 After some experimenting I found out that this works best FOR ME:
Day 1: Back + Biceps (week 1)
Day 2: Chest + Triceps
Day 3: Legs + Fore-arms (week 2)
Day 4: Shoulders + Traps
Which comes down to every muscle twice a month, but of course there is a lot of overlapping.
I am training on his method & gaining muscles greatly! I was training like arnold first but I didnt gained anything bu now Im satisfied with my growth
Arnold was/is a liar. You cant believe anything he said
C'est dire que c'est normal d'envoyer ce qu'on te rende chez soion baisse les yeux on baisse le regard on empreinte le
For years I've only trained 3 times a week,1 hour at a time,very high intensity, Monday chest shoulders and triceps,weds back biceps and traps, Friday legs,rest Tuesday and Thursday and Saturday and Sunday, you'll grow like a weed so long as you're eating well and sleeping well, you'll grow even more if you're enhanced,natty or not this is how everyone should train
Thanks Sam.😮😅
How do you train 3 muscle groups in 1 hour? How many sets each?
@@DonnieBrascoolike how Dorian Yates trained he did short warm up set and then 1 set too failure i remember him saying he would get his workout done in 1 hour
@@DonnieBrascoo One obviously.
@DonnieBrascoo for instance, 3 chest exercises, 2 shoulders ,1 triceps 5 sets each to absolute failure,very little rest between sets
Since following Mike mentzers resting advice I've definitely have had way more gains
Mike is Right.
I always keep thinking that the food and supplement industry are covering up the truth about how many rest days you need.
Supplement industry wants you to take their products often, so they would be against bodybuilders taking longer rest days.
I truley believe longer rest days are vital!
my chest is finally grown since iv rested a week before I hit it again
Im doing full body three times a week, 12 exercises one set. Same routine every time.
At 52 this is working for me really well. Any more than 3 times a week is overkill for a natural.
Every five weeks I do a split routine for a week to shake it up, then back to full body.
I love it, as I get stronger and need more recovery I'm going to reduce the workouts to twice a week.
Monday and Friday.
Doing the same other than the split to shake things up. Never felt stronger.
One set balls to the wall sort of thing? How many warm up sets per exercise? Cheers
@@owenboyd8817 Just one set mostly all out, leave one in the tank. By the end I'm pretty wiped out. I was hurting myself all the time doing volume but I haven't had so much as an ache since I started this routine. Growing way faster too.
So true especially when you're 67-year-old body builder you need time to rest. The only thing you're doing if you keep on doing days in a row is just go through the motion and have sore joints and get weaker and lose muscle. That's great advice.
What’s your training program, are you doing exactly what Mike suggested?
At 56 I agree brother.
God bless you, John. I hope you are doing well. I have completed my 1 year experiment following Mikes axioms of truth and I am going to release the results very, very soon.
First time in the gym i struggled with 30kg on the incline bench. Since i started the program it went to 40kg 3-5 reps, 42.5kg 5 reps and last time i did 42.5 for 7 reps. In 4 days (on the fourth) i have chest again. For the person reading this, feel free to experiment wirh 1 day of rest instead of 2 since leg day already isnt exhausting the upper body. Yes tour whole energy reserve is used to recover the legs but thats a whole extra rest day for the upper body. I do chest/back rest legs/abs rest arms/delts rest legs/abs rest repeat
Metzner was a genius
My energy has improved by training less. I’m just hoping my strength continues going up and my muscle definition doesn’t decrease.
I'm natural and train twice a week or once in 5 to 6 working days.. works for me ..
occasionally take longer breaks and find I'm stronger and lifting heavier more easily
Different strokes for different folks.
just gotta find what works for you.
This is exactly it. And why the ideology of 'must train within at least 48 hours' can't possibly be for everyone.
As a natural I can only train each muscle once a week. I’ve tried twice a week and can tell I haven’t fully recovered. Typically in winter I’ll train specific muscles 5 days a week which I find has worked for me. Might change that to 2-3 days a week.
I did a high intensity workout for biceps and it's been 3 days and I still have pain in my biceps. Just shows that the muscle is not fully recovered even after 3 whole days, If U workout hard enough.
Before if it was like my usual bicep workout the pain would only last about a day or two utmost
mike was a very clever guy
I am one of those guys who take longer to recover. Mike sad it was common for individuals taller than 6 feet. I am above feet 6 tall. I haven't reduced the number of exercises but increased the number of days of rest. I still grow stronger.
His advice is nonsense and we know better now.
I am 6'3 and train every day. Your body adapts and recovers faster.
talking bs u should resttttt@@doctorcatnip2551
@@doctorcatnip2551 No it doesn't and you'd grow faster if you only worked out three times a week. Unless you're on gear, then fly at it.
This man's mustache is a national treasure.
I simply do a full body consolidation WO that only takes 15 minutes twice a week. This seems to be the sweet spot of frequency for me.
Its like Mike is talking to us from heavan
lol
Question, but mike here say's something about eliminate arms and shoulders if you are over lapping, and just focus on the back and chest and legs. Is there a training program for that?
The Goat!
One day I will post these types of training videos for RUclips…subscribe & progress everyone ❤❤❤
Thank you
one of the cycles that some olympic lifters max out on negatives 140% max to failure then rest 10 days!!
Name one, the goat of Oly Lifting is China and they definetely don't do that.
@@davidpinzon3620 bulgaria
They train for hours everyday ..and practice movements ..never go to failure
@@davidpinzon3620 keep learning
@@larrybaba5635 keep learning
Now how do I know when I exceded the recivery time and started detraining? And lets say i do not get sore and after 48 i feel fine and ready to go again, should I just go on and train again or should I wait? How do I actually know when the over compensation has take place? Thanks
Ah it makes sense now, he says overlapping is over training! Best bodybuilding philosophy ever! My only question is how long can you go without working out until you start to lose your gains / muscle mass?
You can find that out by trying. The orthodox opinion claims it is about a month, even shorter for older lifters, but experience shows me even this is nonsense. If you have e.g. 7+ days between arm workouts and you notice strength gains and retained mass, you're good. Try fewer days and more days and see what happens. According to how good your recovery is.
Actually very logical
Where do you get these videos
I have been training mike mentzer workout routine for 7 months now . I got so much bigger. Working out for three years consistently won't even get this much results. I am taking 4-5 rest days. Should i increase it into 7 rest days . Please reply
Whats your split now ?
when i first started training like 40 years ago , it was 4 days a week up to 2 hours a session GROSSLY overtrained , now its once a week for 20 minutes and im looking mighty fine at 66
what the **** are you doing in 20 minutes 😳
@@MrProzacmilkshake one set to failure on everything .. 4 sec up pause 4 seconds down..leg ext, leg biceps, one legged calf raises .. lat pulldown, lat row, chest press , pec deck , side laterals , dumbell presses , rope triceps , biceps dumbells , thats it
@@MrProzacmilkshake doable with very short breaks. Also, only main compound exercises, no minor exercises. Leg days for me take more time though!
@@MrProzacmilkshake😅😅
I’m 55 i train half boxing program and half weights on a Sunday and wednesday and only boxing on a Friday each session is about 40mins. The weights part is probably only 15 minutes per workout so 30 minutes a week and i am getting bigger and stronger.
Thank you!
I train Monday/ chest and bicep, Wednesday/ legs, and Friday shoulders, back, and triceps. Take Saturday and Sunday off.
How can I tell if I’m not completely recovered yet and need more rest days than was mentioned in the suggested plan? Other than still feeling sorenesss in the muscle I worked out, is there something else I should be on the lookout for?
In Mike’s Heavy Duty 2 book he talks about how you should feel pretty amped and ready to go + one extra day. Meaning you feel good to go again, ready to lift on a Sunday, and then wait one more day til Monday to train.
Personally I’d say you should see how your body reacts. You know it was too soon if you go to the gym and you’re feeling weak and sore and everything feels heavier and you’re just tired. Take note of that and add a few more rest days in.
Beast
The first tried and true and still applies to Scientific Approach to training.
It depends on intensity and your goals too though. If you’re not training to failure which is what he advocates you can train more often. If you enjoy getting a pump only you can train more often.
The point is that training to failure reduces the time spent and increases the recovery time. Volume training is much more work, more frequently to achieve a similar level of fatigue over time. Why would anyone want to do that?
High volume full body workouts every other day or 60-72 hours. Listen to your body. Some days where I sleep well, eat well, and have less life stress, I can go the next day. Listen to your body!
You're training for different goals. High volume full body workouts every other day is not optimized for maximizing muscle growth in a non-enhanced body.
@@abu.nahiyannah it all depends The body is designed to lift everyday for survival that's how farmers and construction workers get big Anything humans do to get stronger in a natural setting is done daily that's how the body's designed even ask Joe Rogan
I agree...if I feel great I train...if I feel a little off or tired I don't train...I can train 2 to 3 days in a row and feel great...it just depends on how my body feels...working out is not an exact science imo...what works for one person may not work for another...I do mostly bodyweight workouts like pushups, dips and pullups and mix in some free weights in between....what made the difference for me is high rep pullups...that was a game changer for me as I had been stagnant in my growth for years it seems.
@@abu.nahiyan no.... i am training for bodybuilding..
@@HamhocksUnlimited the body will adapt to anything. just a few weeks i couldnt do more than 3 mins jump roping straight. today i did 7 minutes.
Question: Does the rest period also include no cardio? So if I work out on Monday but I'm also training for a 5k. Do I also stop training for the 5k while I'm resting my body from the intense weight training I did on Monday?
Training for size and strength (Heavy Duty) and training for endurance (a 5k) are polar opposites. If running a 5k is your goal, then focus your training on that by practicing the 5k run. When you've accomplished that, and if you want to get bigger and stronger, then switch over to Heavy Duty the way it was prescribed by Mike Mentzer. If you try to combine the two approaches, you will get a little bit of improvement in each, but not maximal improvement in either as you will be splitting the stimulus (i.e., 50% for endurance and 50% percent for strength and size). Plus the supplemental road work will also use up your recovery resources, resulting in diminishing your progress (in terms of size and strength).
@HEAVYDUTYCOLLEGE Awesome, thank you for the excellent feedback! So, just to be clear, if I'm working on intensive lifting, let that be my source of cardio, correct? No light walking on an incline, nothing?
@@LeeJohn007 The only way to engage the cardiovascular system at all is through mechanical muscular work, and the more demanding the muscular work, the stronger the cardiovascular stimulus (which is why you can peddle a bike on a flat roadway and not be winded, but peddling up a steep hill - even for as little as 20-20-seconds - will leave you out of breath). However, again, if your goal is to run a 5k, then train specifically for that and come back to Heavy Duty when (and if) your goal becomes to build size and strength.
@HEAVYDUTYCOLLEGE thanks again!
Is this conversation before or after he recommended The Ideal Workout of Heavy Duty 2?
Chest/Back, Legs (Leg Press/ Leg Extension & Calfs), Shoulders and Arms, Legs (Squats/ Leg Press & Calfs) with 3 days in between workouts.
This was recorded in 1995; Heavy Duty II came out in 1996.
@@HEAVYDUTYCOLLEGE Thanks.
@@HEAVYDUTYCOLLEGEJohn, did Mike come out with another program after heavy duty 2?
@@dextermorgan7764 Not really; maybe the modified consolidation program (1998), but the principles and the suggested workouts remained pretty much the same.
Yes guys most people don’t know if you hit a PB it’s 10 days before you should attempt another PB I’ve implemented this and went 316 - 666 - 1000 pushups in a month with 10 days rest in between
What’s a PB
@@TheBest0704personal best
Hello John,
I need your help with this ( and anyone else reading this you are most welcome )
I read mike's book high intensity training and he mentioned that as we progress by reps and or weight ( let's assume i went past 10 or more reps using a certain weight ) we should increase our weight ( intensity ) by 10%, but how do you calculate that ?
I did try but i don't think i did get it right
I get what mike mean to say " pick a weight which allows you to go back to the rep range of 6 to 10" and that's pretty easy doing it with your own head just by visualizing and estimating which weight to pick ( and by my experience in person a 5 to 2.5kg is enough ) but i am looking for a precise calculation, and that's because im building an app where we can keep track of workout and progress.
It means sense for a natural bodybuilder or weight trainee can't do workout following day. Body needs recovery for growth & repair of muscles. When a bodybuilder abled to do workout 6 days a week & growing you'll know they're on roids
Not true i work out 4-5 days a week for average of 2-3 hours seperate body part each day.
I listen to my body when im tried i take a day off every 2 months i take a week off.
My body looks insane
Its all about what works for you
Stop listening to other people
No protein shakes 95% vegetarian diet lots of natural vitamin pills water lots of sleep gospel music or listen to sermons being preached in the GYM
no masturbation or sex till marriage
@@aaronedwards6507ha ha this is trolling
@@BradLydiaP im trolling???? Everything i said is facts
@@BradLydiaP when i stopped eatimg meat i put on more weight. Meat is dead flesh. Dead flesh has no nutrition. Vegetables are alive if you take a vegetable a plant it, it will grow and produce more vegetables. Try doing that with a peice of meat and see what happens.
The meat you eating could have come from anywhere it could have been stored in a frozen for 10 years before it gets to you and full of chemicals and preservers.
You wanna to eat chicken and beef but what did the chicken and cows eat????
Grass and corn!!!
think about it
GOD bless
What to do on a day off?
This dudes a clown i dont take days off
Mike spoke about that ,look up "mike mentzer days off"
@@Andrew-iq5udNo hes a legend and a genius .
Why is he a clown? Uncrowned Mr Olympia 1980... let's see your credentials
@@Andrew-iq5udOk cool, now post physique
Mike’s method is better for naturals, Arnold’s applies more to those on gear.
Could I follow this 72 hours pattern while still working a physical job and do some light cardio work or would that affect recovery process too much?
Only you and your progress chart can provide the answer to that question. It is best to go by your own data.
@@HEAVYDUTYCOLLEGE could you direct me to the right place to get a good idea of the chart you're talking about?
A progress chart is simply a training logbook wherein you keep a record of the exercises you perform, the weights used, the repetitions completed and the days off in between workouts. If what you're doing in terms of exercise is spaced properly, then you will be going up in reps, weights or both each and every workout. If what you're doing is only enough to allow you to recover from your exercises, then your reps and weights will stay the same; and if what you're doing is not enough to allow you to recover from your exercises, your reps and/or weights will be going down. Your training logbook is your source of feedback and thus will give you answers regarding whether or not adding exercises, days off, changing your nutritional intake, etc., is moving your closer or further away from achieving your goals.
@2:52 bro had a whole other shoulder bicep tricep and forearm as a tricep 😳
Wow! To a gym addict, resting 2 days between workouts is torcher. 😅😅😅
You are torturing your mind and body for just 15 min of pump not muscle growth. Your brain will release dopamine thinking that you have achieved something harder by working out two hours everyday . Think smart .you don't grow during workout you grow during rest days
I don't mean to train like this but I do on average out of shear laziness. I am growing pretty well at 45.
I promise you this is 100% facts also you know this within your heart of hearts if you have ever planted anything in the ground and saw it grow you didn't plan it 15 times you playing it a couple of seeds put some fertilizer in it and in season it grew in time it grew and you kept watering it and it grew more after a week or two imagine planning and digging up the same seed 8 to 12 times day after day lol you just delayed the growth process everyday you do that
So if I understood, you work each muscle group every 9 days? Right?
It depends on the individual's personal rate of recovery and adaptation (which is a genetic trait that varies across a broad continuum). Some can recover relatively quickly (24-48 hours), most require 3-4 days, and some require 5-7 (or longer) days off in between workouts. That's why Mike recommended that you track your workouts (exercises, weights, repetitions) in a logbook. If you are progressing in weight and repetitions, then you are allowing adequate time for your personal rate of recovery and adaptation from the workouts. If you are staying the same, then you are allowing for recovery but not enough time for adaptation (growth). And, if your weights and/or reps are going down, then you are not allowing enough time for recovery to take place in between workouts. Your logbook data should guide you, rather than an arbitrary number of days off between workouts. Also, as you grow stronger, the greater the demands on your energy reserves, which can extend your recovery periods (as it's an organic rather than mechanical process), so you will (over time) have to drop out certain exercises from the program in order to continue to progress, and also allow additional rest days to provide your body with the time it requires to recover its energy reserves and produce the adaptation that your workouts have demanded.
@@HEAVYDUTYCOLLEGEthank you sir!!!!
Does this still apply to absolute beginners? I believe he said it’s not as important
I think the part about the routine that cuts out overlap is good for beginners, then do the routine he mentioned initially after getting a good base strength.
Would that also apply to people who are overweight and going to do their first session at the gym? If they are using weights (machines or free) they should not go down the next day but wait at least 48 hours? someone please reply.
You'll find the information Mike share in this video to be helpful: ruclips.net/video/SjzJ_rZzZ4A/видео.html (starting at 4:55). The workouts, it should be pointed out, are performed for the specific purpose of stimulating muscle growth. The non training or rest days are when the body recovers and adapts (grows) from the workout. Performing regimented "cardio" on your off days will compete for your recovery resources and compromise your progress. If weight loss is your primary goal, then follow Mike's advice in the video I have linked above.
I thought working out 5 days a week was hard.
Just working out 3 days feels ever more challenging.
Im wondering how mikes concepts apply to mma and not weight training.
FAX
I wait until the DOMS effect is completely gone. Sometimes it takes 3 days sometimes it takes 4 days. If it take less than 24 hours to subside then you really didn't get a proper workout.
DOMS has no direct correlation to muscle growth
@@poppy9955 Of course not it's used as a gauge to not over train and avoid injury
@@onesetmax true
I found that I can train same muscle group once per week but to get stronger is once every other week - sad reality of being natural 😂
I also do the same lifts once every 14 days and I am getting stronger. I might have to go as far as 21 days later. However I still train once a week.
The muscle needs approximately 48 to 72 hours to regenerate. the nervous system takes much longer. But why do you train so hard and damage the central nervous system instead of training so that you can train the muscle again after about 72 hours
Maximum stimulation in the shortest amount of time. Which requires longer recuperation. Who wants to do more work for the same payoff?
Push day off,legs day off,and pull day off gives the body all the rest it needs….tmo
Yates trained 2 days in a row but... He didnt have a job but eat workout rest sleep!
I prefer chest and triceps. Back and biceps
RIP
What Mike said here is the least disputable and controversial of all the bodybuilding topics he covered...(the "one set" stuff was stupid but he only said use it as a starting point)...It's NOT the breakdown of local skeletal muscle during the intense workouts (how many people even have the balls to do a real high intensity workout?). Its the recovery of your nervous system that gets FRIED during the short intense workouts...The bottom line is if you feel like s hit from the last workout DO NOT go break yourself down again until you are recovered and 72 hours between is usually correct...
One set to failure using progressive overload isn't stupid.
For me its simple.
In my opinion you need to train every muscle 2-3 times a week.
So what i have been doing.
Is training full body 3 times a week.
As a natural it gives good results.
I cant imagine hitting chest once a week, thats just not going to work.
However if you train extemely hard and too failure. Then this mike mentzer plan could work.
Have you ever tried a real HIT program? Are you familiar with junk volume?
it works for me👌
Im the few days guy.
And on top of that say your requirement is say you're like me 230 lb right you need that much protein now if you take say 4 days of rest so divide 230 by 4 it's 55 g of protein per day. Much easier to consume isn't it
Wouldn’t you still need the same amount of protein even on rest days