I can totally see why this method didn’t catch on. You can’t market it - not enough days at the gym means you don’t consume more protein shakes/food, products, etc.
Yeah! Although I'd say it's silly not to promote this method for those reasons. One can still consume as many supplements and products as usual (within health) and still only train once a week.
I agree with both ideas here. I think the fraud was already underway, and likely didn't consider that avenue as marketable. Of course only they would know but is interesting to contemplate.
Not trying to be rude bro, I don't know you.... but do you hear how stupid this sounds? "The bigger they get, the more that train" THEY KEEP GETTING BIGGER! That's the point
@@donnyridgeway4395 im talking about the harder they workout more then train and we supposed to do the opposite the harder we train less we should workout so the muscle can recuperate and get bigger.
I've been doing his program the most accurate I can on my own for about 2 months and I just wish I would have known this 10 years ago. I'm so happy with the results.
Mike is spot on. The least amount of stimuli necessary to create adaptation, (growth) is by far the most profitable. Anything more DOES NOT create better results. Most gym rats are brainwashed by YT videos of endless bombing and Blitzing. Most mistakenly think you can substitute Volume for intensity. That's a huge trap that snares most lifters. They lose sight of the objective, by focusing of Volume instead of Growth. (Which is in intensity) Do you want Growth? or do you just want to show everyone (including yourself) how many sets you can do?? With respect to "Growing" those 19" arms, excessive stimulus impedes both growth and density. ***Get the size and then worry about the fine details. Most think their workouts are "Training"! NO! Not true. Simply "working out" regardless of volume or intensity is still just working out. "Training" is to have a crystal clear objective, both short and long term goals and a precise method (program) to "Train" specifically in order to achieve those specific goals. The actual workout, though it IS very important. (done hap hazardly, willy nilly or randomly, is of much MORE concern and yet of far less value to the lifter) The "workout" is still only a part of the equation. MORE importantly for most lifters is Sufficient diet to fuel the workouts and to feed recovery and GROWTH! The other over looked aspect is the REST! Without enough Rest to create full recovery, Growth is always compromised. So, WHY hit those muscles again before the rest and recovery cycle is completed?? You cannot expedite recovery and growth (at least not without pharmaceuticals) but, you sure can compromise it and make it take longer... This IS the beauty of Mikes HD training. It gives you the minimum EFFECTIVE dose on the stimulus and absolutely sufficient rest and recovery. But, make no mistake, these low volume/extremely intense workouts ARE NOT EZ! But, the pain (though it can be quite over whelming at times!) is ONLY momentary per set. (MINIMAL SETS!!) But, as good as it is, it will Never work for those who cannot believe. Just as those who cannot CLEARLY visualize themselves with 18" arms AND believe, will Never actually have 18" arms. Those who have worked out for years and actually maxed out their natural potentials may obviously need a little different recipe or protocol as the one lined out. But make no mistake, they too ONLY need their particular MINIMUM stimulus for optimal Growth... Good Luck it's a awesome journey. I've got 41 yrs in it and it is still unbelievably fascinating to me
Another problem with the YT influencer crowd is young guys with superior recovery ability (either enhanced or not) who gain from volume, then tell their followers 'this is the way'. With the followers not asking themselves if their own recovery capacity matches that of the guy in the video. 3/4 of those in the comments are getting nowhere, but like watching the videos and dreaming.
@@baronmeduse 100%! I've been watching guys go hog wild for a cycle or for several weeks, just as excited and full of optimism, piss and vinegar and then either injure themselves or burn out temporarily. They then disappear from the gym for 2, 3 or more weeks. Come back with shoulders slumped, in a beaten posture, and the FIRST words outta their mouths to everybody who will listen is; "Man, I been out for the last X weeks" or "Man, this is my 1st day back in X weeks".... So, their annual lifting graph of progression ends up looking like a heartbeat rhythm on an EKG. Up, Down, Up, Down and they make little to NO progress year in and year out.... Less IS More most of the time @ the gym!
Excellent video. I have 2 questions, John: 1) Are there any other basic exercises to replace the ones Mike said? 2) Why do we have to perform more repetitions for the legs than for the upper body? What would happen if the same number of repetitions were performed as those used for the upper body? Thanks!
Good questions. My answer would be, taking your questions in order, first, yes; there are exercises that can replace the ones that Mike indicated if the prescribed exercises cannot be performed for whatever reason (leg presses, rows, bench presses and shrugs come to mind). Second, it’s by no means scratched in stone that you have to do more than 6-10 reps for the legs (in both of his books “Heavy Duty” and “Heavy Duty II”, for example, 6-10 is the recommended guideline). Mike often said that the rep ranges were merely “suggested guidelines”, so experiment a bit there to determine which rep range gives you the best results.
I find that 12-20 for squats allows you to get reps to failure without having to go massively heavy to achieve it. However a lot of people who try this will find that the load they were using for multiple sets (e.g. 120kg 3-4 x 10, building up fatigue over sets) is actually too light to do an all-out single set of 12-20; certainly with all-out effort. Once the load and reps ratio is found a single set is massively stimulating.
This reminds me of Stewart McRobert's Brawn and Beyond Brawn. Though exercises are different, the idea of doing only one workout a week, no more that a Monday, Friday, Wednesday, Monday, Friday split doing full body workouts is almost identical to Mike's Heavy Duty method.
Yes, please make sure you don't simply lift weights, do low intensity zone 2 cardio for each muscle group trained to increase muscle adaptation, going just under the lactate threshold. Localised muscle stimulation leads to localised muscle gain.
@@steelphantom9105 1 set to failure does 50% of the job. The other 50% is recovery, where you must do low intensity cardio, going just under the lactate threshold (i.e. you might train hard, but realise you are going to hard as you start to feel lactic acid build up so you go slower/less intense until it goes away and then come back rinse and repeat). Localised muscle stimulation leads to localised muscle gain --> this means if you trained back with pulldowns 1 set to failure, then you must do concentric only low intensity pulldowns to create blood pooling in the worked area, to make it recover. You can do this Zone 2 cardio for up to an hour, all depending on the initial 1 set volume.
@@undeniabletruth-HITmore sources please? It seems like going for a hike/walking regularly would be just fine, but also see the benefit to moderate stress from zone 2 cardio. Sauna 1-4 times a week seems like it would take you 30-40% of the way without jogging/swimming. Make the cardio fun/meaningful is all I say in the end
I just did day one for the second time and my reps increased on average 33%. And you might not believe me, but I didn't take any protein supplement and I've been on a vegetarian diet the whole time I did take creatine, however.
Was this before Mike started recommending up to 20 reps for legs? I feel like he was already suggesting that in the mid-90s, but I guess that wasn't the case. When did he switch to 15-20 reps for legs?
How does one know whether they should do the consolidation routine or if they should do the Heavy Duty program? If someone is making progress on each workout; that is increasing in reps weight or both each workout while training Heavy Duty, then is it necessary for them to switch to the consolidated routine? And if so, how do they know when they should do it?
Do the "Ideal Routine" as Mike suggests, making sure to regulate volume and frequency over time. In due course, your reduction in volume and frequency will be such that you will be left with predominantly (if not exclusively) compound movements performed once every seven days or so. At this point, check what you're doing with Mike's recommendations for the Consolidated Program and make the switch if you like.
@@HEAVYDUTYCOLLEGEIf I stop making progress training once every 8 days, should I just immediately start training once every 9 days or should I take a 2-3 week layoff and then start training once every 9 days in terms of quicker progress? Also on a layoff should I decrease my calories since I’m not as active?
@@909Scubasteve ah, very good. I’m just 6 workouts in on the heavy duty program. I’ve been taking 4-6 days off and am seeing improvement in strength but not much physically yet but that’s to be expected. Keep up the hard work!
@Justforfun-ek7et You to bud keep it up! I take fadoia agrestis and tonkat alo by earth elixir i highly recommend. Its my secret though dont tell anyone 🎉@Justforfun-ek7et
Ive been working out for a while i have a good size but after i apllied mikes method i got so strong and big he is rigth ... i was wrong for a good while
Hello John I hope you are doing well I was wondering if an individual has done training wrong which led to skinny fat, does Sir Mike Mentzer have any suggestions related to solve this problem??
What you’re describing simply sounds like someone who is under muscled. If you train with too much endurance type activity, you will not develop your muscles, save perhaps for slow twitch muscle fibers, which have the least mass potential. By adopting a high intensity training program and obtaining adequate rest for recovery and adaptation, one’s muscles should grow larger and stronger.
@@HEAVYDUTYCOLLEGE thank you for your kind reply Therefore i should bulk first gain some muscles and then maintain it for the time being and then possibly cut down at a slower rate and follow the exercises Mike Mentzer has provided?
Not "bulk" necessarily (as that implies, or at least once did, adding fat along with muscle), but use Mike's advice: determine your maintenance need of calories (presumably, if you're gaining fat or are overweight at all, you're eating above your maintenance need of calories), and then employ one of Mike's programs - either the "Ideal Routine" or the "Consolidated Program" (both of which are explained in other videos on this channel) - and build muscle.
Hi John, do I understand your above comment correctly reading it so that you should build muscle keeping a maintenance calories level rather than being in a small surplus (300-500 calories)?
@@bfjey No, the person who was inquiring indicated they were carrying some body fat, which indicated them to be already in a calorie surplus (if I understood their question ). However, as this person also indicated, there was also a wish to lose fat at some point, so I was simply alerting the person to the importance of establishing your maintenance level of calories. Mike indicated that one could lose fat and build muscle at the same time, but that this was a genetically mediated trait and probably could be done only for a short period of time. However, as this individual’s desire was to build some muscle and ultimately lose some fat, such knowledge might prove beneficial.
The claims of mass gains seem outlandish. Was this mostly marketing hype or was he serious? I'm asking because this goes against his other recordings/seminars where he says the human body's physiological limit for recovery and muscle gain is around 15 lbs per year of pure lean muscle mass.
It depends on how beneath baseline (underweight) the individual is when he begins training. The more underweight, the more weight can be gained until a normal body weight is reached. Mike trained over 2,000 individuals. In this video he’s referencing 2 individuals. Given what I have stated, along with the tremendous genetic variation among individuals with regard to potential response to exercise, two people who responded exceptionally well out of 2000 doesn’t seem outlandish at all.
@@HEAVYDUTYCOLLEGE the answer of just NO is not very intelligent,so it makes me wonder if your NO is because your hidding something from my question ,if im nature will i make any progress ,thats the question i should have used.
It is worth noting that Mike Mentzer himself, as well as many of the bodybuilders he trained, were not natural lifters. Mentzer had a solid physique, but he also used anabolic steroids, which can significantly impact muscle growth and recovery. It is important to consider the context in which Heavy Duty training was developed [1].
This type of training is tailor made for the drug free trainee as such extreme precautions for recovery are made. Steroids primarily act as recovery ability enhancers among other things. The decision to use drugs is a personal decision and one to not take lightly. To understand what true muscular failure is it must be experienced to be understood fully. Most feel they train hard but going to failure is an intensity almost off the charts. The recovery is needed for such efforts.
I can totally see why this method didn’t catch on. You can’t market it - not enough days at the gym means you don’t consume more protein shakes/food, products, etc.
Yeah! Although I'd say it's silly not to promote this method for those reasons. One can still consume as many supplements and products as usual (within health) and still only train once a week.
I agree with both ideas here. I think the fraud was already underway, and likely didn't consider that avenue as marketable. Of course only they would know but is interesting to contemplate.
The method was more suited for selling gym apparatus. He had a deal with nautilus
as well as more personal gym sessions with a coach.
😂😂😂 makes sens now
He makes so much sense. Ppl do the opposite,bigger they get more they train. Wish he was still alive to see how many ppl love his training.
Gone too soon😢
A lot of fitness influencers look the same over years.
Not trying to be rude bro, I don't know you.... but do you hear how stupid this sounds?
"The bigger they get, the more that train" THEY KEEP GETTING BIGGER! That's the point
@@donnyridgeway4395 im talking about the harder they workout more then train and we supposed to do the opposite the harder we train less we should workout so the muscle can recuperate and get bigger.
I've been doing his program the most accurate I can on my own for about 2 months and I just wish I would have known this 10 years ago. I'm so happy with the results.
Holy moly!! He consolidated it even more???!!! This is simply amazing!! Thank you so much for this!! Long live Mike Mentzer
Wish this guy was appreciated when he was alive! This guy is a genius! Perfect teacher for natural bodybuilders!!!
Mike was RIGHT!!!
Thank you for posting these videos! I enjoy listening to Mike and what he has to say. He seems like quite a nice guy.
You can apply his principles to Calisthenics and gettin fit as a normal dude as well. Great knowledge, thank you very much.
Very motivating to really focus on quality, not quantity
Mike is spot on. The least amount of stimuli necessary to create adaptation, (growth) is by far the most profitable. Anything more DOES NOT create better results. Most gym rats are brainwashed by YT videos of endless bombing and Blitzing. Most mistakenly think you can substitute Volume for intensity. That's a huge trap that snares most lifters. They lose sight of the objective, by focusing of Volume instead of Growth. (Which is in intensity) Do you want Growth? or do you just want to show everyone (including yourself) how many sets you can do?? With respect to "Growing" those 19" arms, excessive stimulus impedes both growth and density. ***Get the size and then worry about the fine details.
Most think their workouts are "Training"! NO! Not true. Simply "working out" regardless of volume or intensity is still just working out. "Training" is to have a crystal clear objective, both short and long term goals and a precise method (program) to "Train" specifically in order to achieve those specific goals.
The actual workout, though it IS very important. (done hap hazardly, willy nilly or randomly, is of much MORE concern and yet of far less value to the lifter) The "workout" is still only a part of the equation. MORE importantly for most lifters is Sufficient diet to fuel the workouts and to feed recovery and GROWTH! The other over looked aspect is the REST! Without enough Rest to create full recovery, Growth is always compromised. So, WHY hit those muscles again before the rest and recovery cycle is completed?? You cannot expedite recovery and growth (at least not without pharmaceuticals) but, you sure can compromise it and make it take longer...
This IS the beauty of Mikes HD training. It gives you the minimum EFFECTIVE dose on the stimulus and absolutely sufficient rest and recovery. But, make no mistake, these low volume/extremely intense workouts ARE NOT EZ! But, the pain (though it can be quite over whelming at times!) is ONLY momentary per set. (MINIMAL SETS!!)
But, as good as it is, it will Never work for those who cannot believe. Just as those who cannot CLEARLY visualize themselves with 18" arms AND believe, will Never actually have 18" arms. Those who have worked out for years and actually maxed out their natural potentials may obviously need a little different recipe or protocol as the one lined out. But make no mistake, they too ONLY need their particular MINIMUM stimulus for optimal Growth...
Good Luck it's a awesome journey. I've got 41 yrs in it and it is still unbelievably fascinating to me
Another problem with the YT influencer crowd is young guys with superior recovery ability (either enhanced or not) who gain from volume, then tell their followers 'this is the way'. With the followers not asking themselves if their own recovery capacity matches that of the guy in the video. 3/4 of those in the comments are getting nowhere, but like watching the videos and dreaming.
@@baronmeduse 100%!
I've been watching guys go hog wild for a cycle or for several weeks, just as excited and full of optimism, piss and vinegar and then either injure themselves or burn out temporarily.
They then disappear from the gym for 2, 3 or more weeks. Come back with shoulders slumped, in a beaten posture, and the FIRST words outta their mouths to everybody who will listen is; "Man, I been out for the last X weeks" or "Man, this is my 1st day back in X weeks"....
So, their annual lifting graph of progression ends up looking like a heartbeat rhythm on an EKG.
Up, Down, Up, Down and they make little to NO progress year in and year out....
Less IS More most of the time @ the gym!
Excellent video. I have 2 questions, John:
1) Are there any other basic exercises to replace the ones Mike said?
2) Why do we have to perform more repetitions for the legs than for the upper body? What would happen if the same number of repetitions were performed as those used for the upper body?
Thanks!
Good questions. My answer would be, taking your questions in order, first, yes; there are exercises that can replace the ones that Mike indicated if the prescribed exercises cannot be performed for whatever reason (leg presses, rows, bench presses and shrugs come to mind). Second, it’s by no means scratched in stone that you have to do more than 6-10 reps for the legs (in both of his books “Heavy Duty” and “Heavy Duty II”, for example, 6-10 is the recommended guideline). Mike often said that the rep ranges were merely “suggested guidelines”, so experiment a bit there to determine which rep range gives you the best results.
I find that 12-20 for squats allows you to get reps to failure without having to go massively heavy to achieve it. However a lot of people who try this will find that the load they were using for multiple sets (e.g. 120kg 3-4 x 10, building up fatigue over sets) is actually too light to do an all-out single set of 12-20; certainly with all-out effort. Once the load and reps ratio is found a single set is massively stimulating.
This reminds me of Stewart McRobert's Brawn and Beyond Brawn. Though exercises are different, the idea of doing only one workout a week, no more that a Monday, Friday, Wednesday, Monday, Friday split doing full body workouts is almost identical to Mike's Heavy Duty method.
stimulate growth then go home and rest
Yes, please make sure you don't simply lift weights, do low intensity zone 2 cardio for each muscle group trained to increase muscle adaptation, going just under the lactate threshold. Localised muscle stimulation leads to localised muscle gain.
@@undeniabletruth-HIT. I’am not sure I understand exactly what you mean?
@@steelphantom9105 1 set to failure does 50% of the job. The other 50% is recovery, where you must do low intensity cardio, going just under the lactate threshold (i.e. you might train hard, but realise you are going to hard as you start to feel lactic acid build up so you go slower/less intense until it goes away and then come back rinse and repeat). Localised muscle stimulation leads to localised muscle gain --> this means if you trained back with pulldowns 1 set to failure, then you must do concentric only low intensity pulldowns to create blood pooling in the worked area, to make it recover. You can do this Zone 2 cardio for up to an hour, all depending on the initial 1 set volume.
@@undeniabletruth-HITmore sources please? It seems like going for a hike/walking regularly would be just fine, but also see the benefit to moderate stress from zone 2 cardio. Sauna 1-4 times a week seems like it would take you 30-40% of the way without jogging/swimming.
Make the cardio fun/meaningful is all I say in the end
I just did day one for the second time and my reps increased on average 33%. And you might not believe me, but I didn't take any protein supplement and I've been on a vegetarian diet the whole time I did take creatine, however.
Soreness is not a indicative of growth but dude I'm sore for days after each workout and hungry.
Facts! Keep chasing those gains!
Haha same its wild
Was this before Mike started recommending up to 20 reps for legs? I feel like he was already suggesting that in the mid-90s, but I guess that wasn't the case. When did he switch to 15-20 reps for legs?
Around 1998, which is when this video was filmed.
how many reps you do doesn't matter as long as the rep range works for you - that's what Mike said
How does one know whether they should do the consolidation routine or if they should do the Heavy Duty program? If someone is making progress on each workout; that is increasing in reps weight or both each workout while training Heavy Duty, then is it necessary for them to switch to the consolidated routine? And if so, how do they know when they should do it?
Do the "Ideal Routine" as Mike suggests, making sure to regulate volume and frequency over time. In due course, your reduction in volume and frequency will be such that you will be left with predominantly (if not exclusively) compound movements performed once every seven days or so. At this point, check what you're doing with Mike's recommendations for the Consolidated Program and make the switch if you like.
@@HEAVYDUTYCOLLEGEIf I stop making progress training once every 8 days, should I just immediately start training once every 9 days or should I take a 2-3 week layoff and then start training once every 9 days in terms of quicker progress? Also on a layoff should I decrease my calories since I’m not as active?
I swear since I started doing this and going slower but so much harder and focusing on negative reps my arms have gotten way bigger in 2 weeks
In two weeks you would have been able to workout your arms once and they feel bigger!?
@@Justforfun-ek7et not I work out my arms on shoulder day, chest , day and back day 3 times a week
@@909Scubasteve ah, very good. I’m just 6 workouts in on the heavy duty program. I’ve been taking 4-6 days off and am seeing improvement in strength but not much physically yet but that’s to be expected. Keep up the hard work!
@Justforfun-ek7et You to bud keep it up! I take fadoia agrestis and tonkat alo by earth elixir i highly recommend. Its my secret though dont tell anyone 🎉@Justforfun-ek7et
Should one start with the "ideal routine" and then move to the "consolidation program"?
Ideal routine ❤️
yes.
When I forgot that I had already liked it and unliked it, then liked it again. 😂
Ive been working out for a while i have a good size but after i apllied mikes method i got so strong and big he is rigth ... i was wrong for a good while
People always comment on my physical condition. I’m 51 train only 2 hours a week including warm ups. Just makes sense to me.
Does this replace ‘the ideal routine’?
You may use this program AFTER mastering the ideal routine
@@ahmedefetelbisoglu2363in this video mentzer said to use this one
Hello John
I hope you are doing well
I was wondering if an individual has done training wrong which led to skinny fat, does Sir Mike Mentzer have any suggestions related to solve this problem??
What you’re describing simply sounds like someone who is under muscled. If you train with too much endurance type activity, you will not develop your muscles, save perhaps for slow twitch muscle fibers, which have the least mass potential. By adopting a high intensity training program and obtaining adequate rest for recovery and adaptation, one’s muscles should grow larger and stronger.
@@HEAVYDUTYCOLLEGE thank you for your kind reply
Therefore i should bulk first gain some muscles and then maintain it for the time being and then possibly cut down at a slower rate and follow the exercises Mike Mentzer has provided?
Not "bulk" necessarily (as that implies, or at least once did, adding fat along with muscle), but use Mike's advice: determine your maintenance need of calories (presumably, if you're gaining fat or are overweight at all, you're eating above your maintenance need of calories), and then employ one of Mike's programs - either the "Ideal Routine" or the "Consolidated Program" (both of which are explained in other videos on this channel) - and build muscle.
Hi John, do I understand your above comment correctly reading it so that you should build muscle keeping a maintenance calories level rather than being in a small surplus (300-500 calories)?
@@bfjey No, the person who was inquiring indicated they were carrying some body fat, which indicated them to be already in a calorie surplus (if I understood their question ). However, as this person also indicated, there was also a wish to lose fat at some point, so I was simply alerting the person to the importance of establishing your maintenance level of calories. Mike indicated that one could lose fat and build muscle at the same time, but that this was a genetically mediated trait and probably could be done only for a short period of time. However, as this individual’s desire was to build some muscle and ultimately lose some fat, such knowledge might prove beneficial.
The claims of mass gains seem outlandish. Was this mostly marketing hype or was he serious? I'm asking because this goes against his other recordings/seminars where he says the human body's physiological limit for recovery and muscle gain is around 15 lbs per year of pure lean muscle mass.
It depends on how beneath baseline (underweight) the individual is when he begins training. The more underweight, the more weight can be gained until a normal body weight is reached. Mike trained over 2,000 individuals. In this video he’s referencing 2 individuals. Given what I have stated, along with the tremendous genetic variation among individuals with regard to potential response to exercise, two people who responded exceptionally well out of 2000 doesn’t seem outlandish at all.
Crush on...
are they using steroids with this program to gain muscles mass
No.
@@HEAVYDUTYCOLLEGE the answer of just NO is not very intelligent,so it makes me wonder if your NO is because your hidding something from my question ,if im nature will i make any progress ,thats the question i should have used.
It is worth noting that Mike Mentzer himself, as well as many of the bodybuilders he trained, were not natural lifters. Mentzer had a solid physique, but he also used anabolic steroids, which can significantly impact muscle growth and recovery. It is important to consider the context in which Heavy Duty training was developed [1].
This type of training is tailor made for the drug free trainee as such extreme precautions for recovery are made. Steroids primarily act as recovery ability enhancers among other things. The decision to use drugs is a personal decision and one to not take lightly.
To understand what true muscular failure is it must be experienced to be understood fully. Most feel they train hard but going to failure is an intensity almost off the charts. The recovery is needed for such efforts.