Shadow of the Colossus Story & Lore Explanation
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- Опубликовано: 3 апр 2020
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Footage used from Shadow of the Colossus, Ico, and The Last Guardian, copyright credited to Sony Computer Entertainment.
All music is public domain. Credits and licensing are as follows
Darkling Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
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Grim Idol Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
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Malicious Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
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Unholy Knight Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
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Killers Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
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Rynos Theme Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
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The Descent Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
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Игры
There is a simpler explanation that relies on how the game plays in our real world - just a theory that I think makes more sense:
That place... began from the resonance of intersecting points... the intersecting points are pixels, pixels consist of x & y co-ordinates of the screen, and each pixel is an intersecting point.
They are memories replaced by ens and naught, 'ens and naught' are ones and zero of digital data, 'ens' means an existing or real thing and 'naught' means nothing, something and nothing, light and dark, 1 and 0.
'and etched into stone' on the game's disc. (In Japanese the phrase is "burnt into stone", using the same verb as burning a CD or DVD.)
'Blood, young sprouts, sky' refer to the colours they represent, red, green and blue - RGB the colours on the computer screen.
And the one with the ability to control beings created from light... the player is a person who can manipulate "beings created from light" (game characters on the screen).
In that world, it is said that if one should wish it one can bring back the souls of the dead... in the game you can revive Wander as many times as you want after he dies!
But to trespass upon that land is strictly forbidden... this line is the only one that makes sense to the story, there is no need of an explanation here.
I don't know...it sounds kinda weird...buuuut I guess you are kind of the internet's chief authority on finding secrets in SotC so yeah you're probably right.
May I just say it is an honor to be trolled by you, Nomad 😂
The legend himself
@@RobertEdwinHouse9 right?? I kinda freaked a little when i saw he commented 😂
Boa metáfora
What if the trespassing part is talking about how you cant actually leave the world map, without cheats or other means at least
You can say what you want about Dormin, but he held true to his promise and revived Mono
You're not wrong, but we can make the same argument for when people make a deal with Satan himself. He keeps his word, just not the way you're expecting. And you'll have a hard time convincing me the devil isn't the definition of a bad guy just because he technically keeps his word 😂
@@sunnbrothers3183 actually no, because Dormin tells Wander "i can resurrect her BUT you wil have to pay a heavy price"
There was no further negotiation. If you sign a deal without knowing what will come, its your fault.
By no means does that make Dormin good, but the Deal was as it was
@@derbaertiger again, I'm not arguing that it isn't Wander's own fault; it totally is. Telling him, "the price may be heavy indeed," is so ambiguous it's funny. Its truthful, but its intentionally vague. When Wander answered that it didn't matter, Dormin got exactly the answer they wanted, because now they didn't have to find a way to skirt the truth about what would happen, without lying outright. Dormin could've said, "no, look. I'm going to steal your body, assuming you don't just die outright on your journey," but they didn't. Wander probably assumed the heavy price was his life. What heavier price could there be? Instead, Dormin was more than content to let Wander remain ignorant. It's not Dormin's fault directly, but it doesn't mean they're not in any way responsible. That's what I'm trying to get across. If someone is content to stand and watch while someone else makes a truly fatal mistake, they're an asshole. Hands down.
You got a point there
But in reality who revived is the femenine half of Dormin in that body
Mono "was sacrificed, for she had a cursed fate." But we're never told what that fate was.
And, as said, it was obviously so bad that the ENTIRE village, except Wander, had no issue to it.
I always figured it was because: They found out her fate was connected to Dormin's return, but didn't know how. So they sacrificed her, meaning she couldn't bring him back.
Not realizing that BY sacrificing her, it'd cause Wander to become so desperate that it's EXACTLY what ended up causing Dormin's return.
That’s usually how prophecies work, like with Oedipus.
@@Thor-Orion "One often meets his Destiny, on the road he takes to avoid it." -Oogway.
@@Thor-Orion That's basically my personal favorite parallel. I like to see Wander as a tragic hero who suffers in the grip of an inexorable fate, when men's fear creates the very thing they fear.
One often meets his destiny on the road he takes to avoid it
That was my impression too, you see it all over mythology. Someone is told something bad will happen and in trying to stop the bad thing from happening they bring it on themselves. If they'd never killed Mono in the first place then Wander would have had no reason to steal the sword or enter the Forbidden Lands at all.
I think a really good example of this is the prophecy of Ragnarok, where in banishing Loki's children Fenrir, Hel, and Jörmungandr Odin gives them the exact powers and motivations they need to march against him in Ragnarok and end the rule of the old gods.
i thought Wander was made into a child because it was the spells way of removing all corruption from Wander...to reduce him to the most innocent form, that of a child. However, the reason he is horned in a side effect of the possession from Dormin. At least that's what I feel.
Anyway, I guess its time to play Ico!
Exactly what I was thinking too! When the spell is cast by eco, metaphorically and physically all of the darkness is being sucked out to contain dormin, a being of darkness, but also coincidentally sucks out all of Wander’s darkness as well, leaving him as the most innocent creature, pure of darkness, a child.
You guys are really good and I agree with you
I second this it makes the story so much more beautiful
The lesson that we can learn from wander's journey is : "never accept a vague contract"
Read the fine print! 😂
I never felt that Wander was being manipulated in anyway. Wander never asks Dormin why he has to do what he does or why his body is changing after each colossus' fall, so Dormin never has any reason to explain his request. Wander doesn't care as long as his wish is granted. I also felt Dormin was completely fair throughout. He listens to Wander's wish, tells him what he needs him to do, warns him and in the end, revives Mono despite being dispersed.
Sins of omission vs sins of commission. Dormin intentionally withholds relevant information from Wander. It's more of a passive deception than an active one. Dormin grants wishes like a Djinn, a magic flick of the wrist, followed by a hard backhand. They give Mono her life back, but happily leave out that it will cost Wander himself, and possibly Mono's soul, and her capacity to die a normal death ever again. Wander still would likely have completed his task anyway because he didn't care about the cost, but calling Dormin fair is like calling the devil fair because he technically follows all the rules.
Wander was manipulated into doing something he had no intention of doing, just because knowledge of the outcome might not have changed anything, that doesn't mean Dormin isn't a dick for not telling him something he had reason to know.
@@sunnbrothers3183 one could say that both dormin and wander are just being neutral (not good nor bad). It's kinda like, so long you do you side of the deal i do mine, like that kind of a deal. Also it's not like wander care what would happen to him so long as his wish is granted, if you pay attention before he turn to dormin, just when he's about to take an arrow to his knee, he is just looking at the girl, to see if she would wake up, have her life back. He didn't even pay attention to what is happening to himself, not even a single word.
@@sunnbrothers3183 Absolutely disagree, dormin never lied to wander, they tell him from the beginning that killing the colossi will cost him greatly and wander even cuts them of and says "i doesnt matter".
Dormin holds there part of the bargin.
And for this point: "cost Wander himself, and possibly Mono's soul" it is especially said that she will get her soul back and she did
@@sunnbrothers3183 I know im a year late but well... i hope you still see it
First to Dormin: all we know is that its a immortal being of darkness with the power to control the soul. Just the soul bit is enough to be a glimmer of hope for some and a source of fear for many.
Just imagine living in a City and one random person there has a remote and when he clicks your corresponding button you just die. That is a fear nobody whants to live with. On the other hand this can work the other way around: if you give him a favor he can just bring your loved one back from the dead.
So the reason why he was sealed might just have been his possibility to do something but not the actual occurance. People just didnt want to live in that fear anymore.
Next to the deal with Wander: After Wander told him the price doesnt matter why would he need to be malicious about it? He could have guessed that Wander already know about the consequences, maybe even overrestimated them (ill come to that part later on). He simply went with what Wander told him to and took that as a fact. You could say that he has been egotistical in not further explaining the consequences, but you can argue that he just respected Wanders statement as well.
When Wander ask for Dromin to bring Monos soul back he answers laughingly "That saidens soul? Souls that are once lost cannot be reclaimed... Is that not the law of mortals?" and then adds "with that sword however... it may not be impossible." One could argue that hes mocking Wander, looking down on him or maybe even playing with him. But he could also just test his resolve with these questions.
Of course he proceeds to ask him for the favor of killing the colossi next but that may be because Dormin wouldnt be able to return her soul in his current state (considering hes been broken apart to not be able to fiddle with souls anymore).
Now the colossi: We know theyre living beings that are at least to a certein degree sentient. They react to Wander. Next we know that they contain something, the black tendrils that leave their body when they die, most like a piece of dormins body. We dont know if its his physical body or spiritual or whatever, we dont even know if he really has or ever had a physical body. All we know is that those tendrils seek out Wander once their vessel is destroyed. I'd guess they are part of dormins spiritual body and cant exist outside of a vessel for long, thats why they seek out wander, the only other living thing nearby. For the reason why you get teleported back everytime a colossus is defeated: most likely just a gameplay decision. Running the same trip twice just feels tedious and the game has no other type of a fast travel system.
Now coming back to the consequences of Wanders wish: Dormin knew that his body parts needed a temporary vessel that would contain them until he could reunite with them and recreate his body. But a humans body isnt made to contain the whole body of a god. Thats why he degrades. Maybe even Dormin wasnt sure if it was possible for Wander to contain all of his body and fulfill his side of the deal. I mean its most likely the first time for him being recreated from such a situation as well. Maybe thats why he tested him with the questions in the beginning. If he has a strong enough will to contain Dormins body. Maybe it wouldnt change much for Dormin if Wander failed in his quest, its not like Dormin has placed to be... But its just the question of what would happen if Wander managed to defeat some of the colossi and then die. What would happen to the bodyparts already in Wander? would they manage to find another vessel? If a human cant contain his bodyparts why should a turtoise be able to? Or a Kite? And I dont think they could seek out another colossus to find their place there because its unlikely their seals would let darkness in but not out... but this is getting into too much detail. So thats why Dormin gave Wander this glimmer of hope to return Mono to him. Maybe it was necessary maybe not, of the essence is that he did it.
So to the ending: Wander looks awful. Dormins parts inside him arent supposed to be there. Theyre starting to make him something that he isnt supposed to be. In that sense you could say Dromin has all the parts he needs, but not the time to rebuild him. Its like having just gotten a lego set but before you could complete it youre told to come eat dinner. Just in that case the lego pieces are Dromins body and dinner is a sword... through the chest to be exact. So now we have a half build Dormin inside the dying body of a human he respects. But why can I say Dormin respects Wander? Simple: When he takes control over the body he says "We have BORROWED the body of this WARRIOR". By saying borrowed he implies of returning it and by adding of this warrior he acknowledges Wanders abilities, or at least his resolve for his cause (maybe thats something thats completly different in the original/japanese version but id like to think that this choice of words is important). He could have left the "of this warrior" out, he could have just not said this entire sentence, but he did.
For the reason of why he took over the body: Maybe ,while he was still in the middle of reconstructing his body, when then the host died, he wouldnt be able to reincarnate, or, what i like to believe, he grew fond of Wander and wanted to pay him back for bringing all parts back together. When we consider Dormin to be a creature of Darkness that only takes live then why should he keep up his bargain? After Wander basically died he would have no reason to return Monos soul other that to fulfill the deal. Maybe he just took over Wanders body so he could bring the attention away from Mono. She was in the middle of getting her soul back and if Lord Emon and the soldiers realised that they would most likely just kill her again. In other words we cant say if it was to protect himself or Wander and Mono.
But what we do know is that he corrupted Wanders body so far to the darkness that even the seal considerd him to be a part of Dormin. Maybe it wasnt the seal that returned Wander to an infant but it was all Dromin could do to not have Wander be sealed with him. Taking away as much of the darkness as he could to make him no longer the target of the spell. Maybe Dormin had so much respect for Wander because he didnt care for the consequences of the deal. Maybe Wander guessed from the beginning that the only outcome he could have is death. Either by dying to a colossus or as a price to pay to bring back Mono. A soul for a soul kind of deal. On the other Hand Dormin might just be concerned about if it even was possible for Wander to contain him long enough and die or at least degrade to an irreversable level.
We dont know what happened to Dormin. Maybe he turned into the sword that you get after finding all 79 relics which is why its normally impossible to get in yor first playthrough (tho that only exists in the rerelease so...)
I know a lot of that is wishful thinking and i tend to see too much good in people (at least until im proven otherwise) but in the end i dont think Dormin was a being of pure darkness (at least in his mindset). Its more like a sign that even in the (literally) darkest places there is a way to shine a light. Even if that way consists of abandoning your own humanity and take a deal that shouldnt be taken to save the ones you love.
And with that clichee ending im gonna close my case.
@@archangel3286 Well I don't know if he read it, but I did and I thought it was interesting, so thanks for sharing.
dormin used "we" when it introduced itself and had a voice of both female and male, and once he's taken wander as a vessel the voice becomes more male we can see mono glowing, almost as if she was deity of light; perhaps the two "voices" split itself into the two characters.
That's a very plausible theory
I love this theory and if wanderer knew what was about to happen that makes his sacrifice that much more noble
We is actually how a person with hight status (like a lord or king) describe them self in most Asian languages including Japanese culture which the writer is from
@@seemann2401 wareware wa
i think when dormin said "we", he ment the bits of his fragmented soul throughout the colossi, but then again, that doesnt make too much sense since its still a part of dormin.
I love the idea that becoming the queen in Ico was the curse Mono's death was supposed to prevent. That would fit the themes very nicely, and it's the lore equivalent of juicy gossip
It wasn't a reversal of time that transformed Wander back into a baby. The pool that consumed Dormin was actually just consuming all the dark essence/magic in the area. Naturally, since Wander was not a being of complete darkness, some essence of him would remain. Babies can be a symbol of innocence as they have not yet had the chance to become corrupt by darkness and as such. Wander's innocence representing the light left inside of him took the form of a baby. Uncorrupted and full of potential for attonement.
Then why it got horns tho...
@@CrypticCobraI would say because him and the his children are cursed until Ico kills the queen and he loses his horns. Something that I think is a cool small detail is after the horns break they bleed out.
@@rustymiller9555the Queen also got so powerful from extracting whatever small power of Dormin existed in the horned children.
My theory:
The Forbidden Land is where all of human civilization began. It was originally put there by various gods of nature as a safe haven for humanity from a threatening outside world, but they were gradually forsaken for a new god; one that sprang from humanity itself, not nature: Dormin, who represents mankind’s cunning, warlike, power-thirsting essence but also is bound by his essence to keep any pacts made with humans. His emergence pollutes humanity terribly. At first, his followers and the old gods’ followers coexist. The many temples around the land are theirs. Eventually, the pollution is too great to bear, or a war breaks out, and followers of the old nature gods manage to unite their powers and seal Dormin within those gods, which become the Colossi and are trapped in the statues.
Much of the Forbidden Land’s habitable areas were destroyed by the atrocities of Dormin’s reign and his sealing process. Therefore, the whole place was abandoned and sealed, to act as his final tomb. A single bridge was left in place, in case he were ever to somehow weaken the seals, so they could be maintained, but it was heavily guarded on most occasions...except for the sacrificial rituals, which all were mandated to attend. Quite unable to stop the ritual on his own, Wander waits until it is complete, then snatches both the girl and the holy(?) sword used to kill her in the name of good(?). It’s certainly in the name of light, but good is perhaps debatable. The sword, created from the old gods of nature and light, is the only thing capable of harming them, and still has a connection to them. Perhaps continual escape from Dormin’s darkness requires many heavy sacrifices such as this one. Maybe the result is a society whose ways are difficult to accept.
Wander isn’t even remotely content with this particular sacrifice, as she means more to him than himself and all humanity combined...and that’s his tragic flaw. He is so blinded by love, he is willing to throw everyone in the world into chaos to save it. He was not the first to have objections, but he was the cleverest about his plan to swoop in and take control of things. This makes him much like Dormin.
Since it is impossible to actually destroy Dormin, as he is linked to humanity itself, all that they’ve been able to do is reset his growth to its beginnings, signaling that we can never truly eradicate the evils of mankind, but that we will be given multiple opportunities over the ages to do battle with this force. (Hence Wander’s rebirth. He, too, was reset to a time prior to all this suffering and given a chance to right things somehow, like a new generation of humans. He tries this, one day in the distant future, betraying his now-corrupted love, the Queen. She is ultimately victorious, killing him. His final act and his loss drive her mad with rage and bitterness, and any time one of his unique bloodline re-emerges, the child is ordered by her to be sacrificed (as she once was), this time to prevent the old gods and humanity from dominating her and the will of Dormin.
(Man, I really have to beat Ico now. lol It was soooooo hard for me back in the day! But I beat SotC without much trouble or any guide.)
I do like the idea of the Colossi perhaps being gods from the previous era. It would make them all the more suitable to serve as containers for the new god, Dormin. It would also offer an explanation for the existence of the temple. I love this damn game. There's so much going on, and every time you discuss it with someone, there is a potential to hear a slightly different perspective on something. It is a masterpiece.
Sunn Brothers absolutely!! My favorite game beyond any doubt. Just wish there was anything even remotely like it! Thanks for your work on this analysis. It’s very strong stuff and the real plot of this thing has always driven me nuts, but I think I can accept this version. :D
@@TimBitten it will forever be in a league all it's own. I think it's safe to say that anyone who loves this game, REALLY loves this game, and it will be near impossible for something to affect us and inspire the same awe as SotC.
I'm glad you enjoyed the video and don't think my entire theory is garbage 😂 This video took a lot of work, but it was incredibly fun doing the necessary digging to piece everything together. And the best part is, everything I said could be totally wrong, and everyone else's theories are every bit as valid. As long as we keep digging, new aspects of the story will continue to unfold.
A story that continues to evolve, grow, and change for years without any additional input from the writers? Now THAT is good storytelling.
That was such a satisfying read. I hate when people call Lord Emon the villain. My man only trying to prevent Dormin
wrong
I believe that the whirlwind pool didn't reverse time, but sucked all the darkness from the land. This is why Wander is now a baby (the symbol of innocents itself).
Don’t forget Dormin said he‘d only borrow Wanders body and never intended to kill him. I think it is an ancient god, not a symbol for false worship.
I love the vid!!
Something interesting that I noticed is that when the shaman and his men are scaping the temple in the final sequence and the bridge starts to collapse, the blocks that hold it don't actually explode, the kind of disintegrate in light.
Visually, it's almost identical to the crumbling of the statues inside the temple when you defeat a colossus. We can safely say it's linked to the light seals placed over the shrine, and when Emon initiates the backup seal as their last hope, it destroys the bridge the ancestors constructed with light so that no one will ever be able to leave the sacred land again. Dormin would have a very hard time reconstructing something made with light magic, after all.
Considering its a prequel to ico i feel that mono was killed because she was going to be the queen in ico and they could see it coming and that is likely what they meant by cursed fate
I don’t think so. I think somebody got it right when they said she was prophesied to bring about the return of Dormin, but they didn’t know how, accidentally causing the events to go into motion by killing her. This is often how prophecies work in the ancient epics.
Of course agro will survive...
He's the horse of steel...
I was NOT OKAY on my first playthrough of the game when I thought they killed off my best friend lol
All Kim Kardashian ugly crying because I let my horse died.
"I just feel like such a bitch!" 😭
She is the horse of steel
I keep forgetting that Agro is actually female, lol
Btw it is true if u try to hit agro ur sword will bounce off like if she was made out of... Steel
The fun part about this is knowing originally the tendrils were tendrils of darkness contained in light, and that Dormin's original model was semi-transparent. As though it was more a shadow than a deep darkness. It originally didn't appear as a void, but a shade, a being that straddles the line between light and dark. It's little things like that that kind of make me disappointed in the remake.
I've always thought of the ending as a sort of "do-over". Since Wander and Dormin are one by the end of the game, I think it's fair to say that they can no longer be separated, and one can no longer overpower the other. (Like we see Wander with the blue eyes and horns, or Dormin form himself around Wander's body.) They have created a new entity that exhibits qualities of both beings. It feels like whatever spell trapped Dormin in Wander's body both was set to make them stuck together, and make them both powerless and weak. It would also be interesting to see what this baby would be like grown. Since there are two opposing forces that created the baby, would the baby then be a completely neutral force? Not good and not bad? Perhaps that was the intention of not only combining the two, but reverting them to the state of a baby. A do-over, essentially a "try-again" in hopes of having a different outcome, and possibly destroying Dormin's forces forever with this new creation.
Interesting point about the feminine presence counteracting Dormin's likely masculine nature.
Fresh conjecture: Maybe Mono was sacrificed as part of the ritual keeping Dormin...dormant. The people led by Eamon might have habitually sacrificed women/feminine people to protect the seal. If Wander's quest to revive Mono was another key piece for Dormin to free themself (undoing the sacrifice by reviving her and/or removing her soul from being part of the seal), that would be to Dormin's benefit too. Hence another reason they helped Wander succeed, all for the purpose of being freed, since they probably don't care about Wander himself. Otherwise, breaking the seal(s) of Dormin's prison may have revived Mono without their influence; maybe she wasn't dead but her soul was being used as part of Dormin's captivity, keeping her comatose until it was freed.
Maybe someone has already said this or something similar. (P.S. I appreciate the use of neutral pronouns. They work in both the sense that Dormin might be a plural entity and/or not defined by gender.)
Debunk if you please, but please do so politely :)
I've considered the same as well. That perhaps whatever sacrifice she was offered up as is a part of the maintaining of the seal. Something that's been passed down from their earliest ancestors whether they know its true purpose or not. I don't have a solid debunk, but I can tell you the big thing that stopped me personally from following that route of thinking.
Mono actually has a voice actress that speaks to you while you're being transported back to the temple after defeating each colossi (she's basically begging you to stop if I remember correctly.) The voice actress for that sequence is different than the woman who voices Dormin's female aspect. I think it's likely that if these girls were being sacrificed in order to maintain the seal, the most recent sacrifice would provide the female voice. Aside from that one little tidbit, it's really not an improbable theory.
Notice how when mono wakes up she is surrounded by light but she herself is dark signifying that she is the darkness In the light and when we see wander as a baby he is surrounded by darkness but is a baby a pure manifestation of innocence and light signifying that wander is light In the darkness
It's hard to explain but I just found it interesting
i like to think that wander was also reborn, with the horns being a mark of dormin perhaps, doing an "evil" act and was cursed for his kin forever marked by dormin. now at the end of ico, we lose our horns, now this could be coincidence, but it's still a nice thought of synergy in the story, a man releasing Dormin, and being cursed with horns, and in ico, it's a boy doing a good act, killing the queen and destroying the castle, and his horns are lifted
I've been watching every single SOTC video I can since I finally played this. This is probably the only game I've ever played where I disliked the gameplay but kept at it. And after finishing it I'm in love with it. The soundtrack is just too good. Coupled with the atmosphere and lore I understand why so many love this game.
There is nothing else like it. It's more like a visual novel than a game, honestly. The ride to each area is every bit as good as even the best battle. I have thoroughly enjoyed reading the comments on this video and hearing other people explain what they love about it, because there is so much to love about it.
@@sunnbrothers3183 I couldn't agree more. But it's hard to explain exactly what it is I like so much about the game. The action? The music? The map you play in? I could say those things about many games. For some reason though S.O.T.C. drew me into it's world in a way no other game ever has. But here's hoping that the full complete "Praey For The Gods" will be the S.O.T.C. sequel we never got.
Excellent video. Personally I like to believe that Mono, Agro, and Wander managed to scale the mountains around the forbidden lands to make it back to their home tribe wherein Wander was given a new start. After death (whenever that would be), Mono's body was resurrected once again by what remains of Dormin, eventually leading to her becoming The Queen from Ico.
I certainly enjoy the optimism in that theory. It's about the closest thing to a happy ending one could hope for given how bleak the ending is.
Shoot, have Agro watch a few, "How to be a Skyrim horse," videos on RUclips, and they'd all be out of there in no time at all 😂
One of many reasons this game continues to be discussed for the better part of 17 years now, is the fact we don't get answers about almost anything. We the player must think of all the many possibilities as to what happened before Wander arrives in the Forbidden Lands, & what happens after Lord Emon & his men leave & Mono is re-awakened. Many other games take place in ancient lands too, & without much back story, but none seem to capture the imagination quite like "Shadow Of The Colossus".
18:45 all I have to say is powerful beings are often said to be bound to their word, they can say things or leave things out but cannot go directly against what they’ve said they would do
I never got the impression that either Dormin or the people were good or evil, but they were all selfish. We don't know what they trapped Dormin for, but I wonder if as the God of death it was an act of folly on the part of their ancestors to almost usurp that power by getting rid of them. They didn't exactly become peaceful or merciful in Dormins absense, they willingly murdered someone because someone else said their fate was cursed. They took someones life to protect themselves. Wander kills the collosi to gain something for himself, the people kill Mono to gain something for themselves, Dormin uses Wander to gain something for themselves. Its a circle of power and insecurity leading to nothing but death.
Personally I've always interpreted Dormin himself to be a god of light. Seeing as how he communictes to Wander through a light that shines in through the ceiling of the temple. And I don't think Dormin is necessarrily the bad guy of the story. His actions are inherrently evil, however Dormin is no deceiving trickster, like many other villains are. He never lies to Wander, explainig to him plain and simple that what he wishes to happen will come with a great cost. He keeps his deal at the end of the day reviving Mono, just as he had promised. Than again that's what I personally believe to be Dormin's character as. This is one of those rare occasions where leaving a story purposefully vague and up to interpretation really succeeds in creating a truly engaging and well made piece of fiction. Great Video as well.
i always thought mono's cursed fate was something along the lines of "will bring into the world a cursed child". It would make sense for the tribe to kill her so she never becomes pregnant but doing that is precisely what will bring the cursed baby into the world because that baby is the one who wanted to rescue her... tell me if that make sense lmao
It's been years and i still call Dormin, door man (this all could have been avoided if wander was named stay put)
Wow, this video is seriously underrated. Really good stuff!
Thank you friend! We here at Sunn Brothers are very greedy and vain, and your praise feeds our souls and egos!
This was good
I had a ton of fun putting this together, so I'm glad you enjoyed it! I've been considering doing bits of either Dragon Age or Elder Scrolls for the next lore entry.
@@sunnbrothers3183 dragon ageee! Skyrim is overwhelming explained already
Man dormin was a true G, he revived mono, and he gave fair warnings to wander, not only that but he said he borrowed the boys body not taken
Spoilers/speculation for Sotc and Ico
The glowing pool removes all the darkness from Wanda, being birthed as an infant: the symbol of innocence.
Dormin's light energy revives Wanda, and he is cursed. Males born into Wanda's lineage are special because they have both the Light and Dark essence of Dormin. This cycle is created by Dormin to achieve fruition in the reincarnation of Dormin. Males born of his lineage will have horns as a mark of Wanda's sin for entering the Forbidden Lands, for making his contract with Dormin.
Dormin's dark energy revives Mono, and she is cursed. She becomes the Queen. She seeks males from Wanda's bloodline to extract the Dark energy for herself, she extracts the Light energy for Yorda.
It was Dormin's plan that their energy be gathered into two vessels, the Queen would merge Yorda with herself and with two complete vessels of duality, Dormin would be reincarnated.
In SotC, Lord Emon prays that, should Wander be alive, he will one day atone for said sins. Ico fulfills this prophesy by killing the Queen. During their battle, one of Ico's horns is broken. This is symbolic of the freedom from the curse.
Unfortunately, I also think that the broken horn, and bloodied stump means that Ico dies.
Yorda, whos spirit is tied to the Queen, also dies.
Yorda's last act is one of respect, as she turns into shadow and the two escape the castle in a boat. The boat is symbolic of Greek funerary tradition, the voyage to the beach is the afterlife, as watermelons don't typically grow on the beach, it is the sweetness in their relief.
The curse is over, Dormin lives on and continues to influence human hearts with their rich content of light and dark energies, planning a way to reincarnate again.
Swords split things into two. Upon throwing the sword into the pond (which also reflects things back at themselves), light and dark are recombined and you get a little demon baby.
Wander has become the vessal for Dormin in mortal flesh. He may not remember himself but he'll know his actions through deja vu and time. That or Dormin is the prodigy of Ico's race
My theory is that's a not normal horse by no means there is something about that horse 🐴
Classic example of show, don't tell. How many fantasy games do we have where story dialogue and exposition is drilled into your head by lengthy cutscenes and narration?
Just start the game, play the music and point us in the right direction. That's what I think shadow does so well.
Just stumbled upon your video I really like this take on the story I like that the darkness isn’t sucked out cause if it was there really wouldn’t be shadow ppl in eco. I also really like the idea of mono becoming the dark queen! awesome video!
This is one of the best breakdowns of the lore to this series. I’ll direct other folks your direction for sure
We would be honored for you to do so, fellow wanderer! Thanks for the love! ❤
The biblical connections and the theme of idolatry are really neat. Always thought it was interesting that once Dormin manifests in that horrifying form the light from the sky is gone. The humans were the ones who built the idols to seal Dormin away. Dormin says that it is “the law of mortals” that souls cannot return from death. Always saw that as a law that the mortals held, rather than something imposed on them. He also told the truth though with elements of mischief. Wander payed a great price and Mono was resurrected. Wander himself was even reborn. At the end, after the shaman and the warriors leave and the bridge is destroyed Mono, the baby and Agro live in a garden at the highest point close to the sky from which Dormin spoke. Always thought this game was very misinterpreted. Just the game of course. Good video, thank you.
Great video! I think this is the best treatment of the SotC story I’ve heard. Thanks for the content!
We deeply and genuinely appreciate that. Seriously, thank you. There are so many incredible videos and creators out there that have spent time on SotC lore, and for even a single individual to have this much appreciation even a single piece of content makes any hate we get worth it ❤️ any other games you're curious about? We're always down for recommendations and trying something new.
U deserve more views. A great video man! Subbed.
Many thanks friend! We will be doing more lore videos in the future since this one has done fairly well, so keep an eye out for those.
Wow, what an experience/ explanation. Thank you
an absolute MASTERPIECE ART !
..and here's me, reviving my PS2 just to play this masterpiece.
Wow i think mine went missing lol bit the ps4 remare was good too
I never took into account that with them sacrificing her life because of her fate is what made it grow to fruition
My theory is the boy from TLG is dormin, the tattoos show magically properties, he's the only one who survives and escapes the nest, the loading screens show giants existed possible before trico, so inspired by these creatures and the tricos they split him into the buildings of the nest and remains of the tricos, the decents of the boys former tribe becomes wonder's tribe, and mono becomes the queen, given the whole "falling into darkness" theme with wonder becoming dormin, all the majors becoming "evil" isn't out the question
I've often wondered if there is supposed to be any connection between the trico beasts and the colossus, but man is it impossible to find rock solid evidence of....anything, in Team Ico's creations lol
This was super good thank you very much for putting it together. 🙏
We're glad you enjoyed it! A lot of time and effort went into this one.
This was such a deep telling of the story. I learned a lot. Very cool 😎
Thank you! I just wish I could be truly confident that anything I said was truly right 😂 that's the beauty of the story though, your imagination is the only limitation on how events might have unfolded.
I believe he held true to his word because that was his last ditch effort to stay alive and unchained by seals
I love this game on the ps2. It's not as good looking, but it's nostalgic, and I've still got those rose tinted glasses
I recently just played it on ps2 and there are some fights that run at about 10 fps
Really great video. You’ve shown me some hacks and shortcuts that I can use next time I play.
Sorry for the long comment, i just love this game so much
I think it's important to take in the themes/messages of the story for one to understand it fully, bcs well-written and thought out stories usually have them present in every character and plot
Imo every character in the story (except Mono) are not necessarily evil neither good, but selfish. Wander is willing to commit treason and murder of fantastic creatures to resurrect the one he loves in a obsessive manner, Emon (which we can assume is an priest of sorts) willingly sacrificed a innocent girl bcs of a possible curse, Dormin not necessarily is a beast of pure evil, he just wants to live and be free and is willing to take someone for it (with some advertise of possible consequences)
All of this is thematically resonant with light and dark being present in every creature, good and evil dwell in every person, some more and some less but never fully one or another. One can think of Dormin story as a cult/religion that scared the beliefs of Wander and Emon ancestrals, similar to how christians behaved in middle age in regard to different creeds. Morality isn't black or white in this story, even the colossi, so imo it's an indication on how we can perceive Dormin.
The themes of survival and things that look like they're evil but not necessarily are, is present in the colossi too. The game frequently wants to make you sympathize with them, during battle the songs feels like an epic tale of a adventurer taking on impossible odds but when you kill them a striking silence comes with the sound of the sword piercing it's flesh louder than normal, their screams of pain and the fall is followed by Requiems that feels like a lamentation of it's demise, the requiems slowly become more prominent as the tone of the story darkens from a heroic adventure to a tragedy (the game even throws at your face the corpses at it's credits). Also there's a subtle moment that i love in the 16th where he has his yellow eyes during the whole fight, but one moment you're in his hands and he looks at you with blue eyes without shaking or attacking, and some colossi being peaceful until attack, 11th that feels fear or 13th that is just that fantastic creature that never attacks you.
Also about the futility of trying to run from the consequence of your actions, imo the game allowing you to try to run from the tendrils a very subtle but incredible nod for that, and at the end of the game we are given one more try to run from the pool, but all we are doing is just delaying the inevitable, you can't run from the consequences forever.
Also i like how killing Mono is actually what sealed her cursed fate, without her sacrifice the events that led to Dormin resurrection wouldn't exist.
About the baby, and also answering about what makes the ancient sword special, how the colossi might been made and so on this video below explains it well. And i also believe in Wander becoming a baby being a symbolical form of him being cleansed to the point of returning to the most pure form of a human, a new born. And he became because the sword is filled with light, Wander body was filled with darkness and with water the pool served to unite these elements, and as i stated and as the video below develops this argument, light + shadow created everything in the world of SotC, water being what lets both act and react
ruclips.net/video/ZAWFiwN63No/видео.html
I played this back in 2005 for the forst time. I never would have guessed that 20 years later if still be trying to doscover its secrets and looking at other peoples thoughts. I fucking love this game so much
Just when I think I’ve read the ultimate theory, the next one is equally great.
I have no theories, but I do know this- All of these theories are a perfect example of the level of genius that went into the making of it.
It’s still being discussed nearly 18 years later. Listening to all the details in this video left me wondering “What kind of mind comes up with this story?!”
This was such a great video! How do you not have more subscribers?!
Very nice! Thank you for the detailed explanation! Well done!!!!!
Thanks m8!
Great vid! Love to see more like it!
Mono going on to become the queen is an interesting theory.
Although that queen was about to discard her old body and use her daughter Yorda to serve as a replacement to grant herself a few more decades of life.
What’s to say that was the first time she had done this? Likely the body she then wore use to be a previous generation. Perhaps she is Mono or a descendant of her and kept herself alive indefinitely by hijacking her daughter’s body and then conceiving another one.
man i remember seeing that horse fall for the first time as a kid and crying my eyes out i was so attached
I enjoy your work!
Many thanks, friend! We have a few more lore videos in the oven, so keep an eye out for those as well!
I’m glad to hear this story
amazing video! i had a hard time interpreting this story
I was shocked when I saw how many subs you had (no offence) you deserve so much more for the effort you put in
As long as there are a few people that genuinely enjoy one or two of my videos, I'm happy. But it's nice to know all the work that went into this one hasn't gone unnoticed. I did a lot of digging, and I had so much fun putting it all together.
Not sure if you're a Dark Souls fan, but I just started gathering all the info for a DS3 lore video, so keep an eye out for that if you're interested!
Sunn Brothers never really played it but you might be the one to inspire me, looking forward to it
@@dead1997 dang homie, that's pretty touching 😭 I will do my best not to let you down!
Amazing work fella
super dope video, thank you
Excellent video, such an epic game. Agro forever!💙
Love the microphone quality. Subscribed. You have a lovely voice!
Hey, that is a legitimately nice thing for you to say and it made me feel pretty good...are you sure you're using the internet right? 😂
Jokes aside, thank you. I get pretty self-conscious about my narrations, so that is a highly appreciated comment 👍
No worries brother! Credit where credit is due!
I totally understand getting anxious about your own voice especially in a longer video. Feeling like you need to talk faster or enunciate better because you just want want to finish your point. I'm glad you don't seem to do that.
Your natural storytelling flows really well and your delivery is excellent.
RUclips is missing content like yours dude.
I just finished my 2nd playthrough of SotC so it was great stumbling across this video. Can't wait to see what you do next. Gaming or otherwise!
@@thomasroarty5211 I'm in the process of making a Dark Souls lore video, but it's been slow going with real life being an unfortunate side effect of needing to be alive to play video games 😂
Maybe the girl was killed because it was foreseen that she'll bring dormin back into the world as his mother? And so she was killed to avoid that. So the game could be like a self fulfilling prophecy
Amazing video
I always figured Wander being turned into a baby was giving him a chance to atone for his actions with a new beginning
Two forces: light and darkness, yin and yang. Antagonistic but complemetaries. The beginning is ok: it mentions the duality of the duality: that the two forces are both contrary and necessary. After that, this idea is thrown out the window: light is good and darkness bad, bad, bad, and all the theory rises from here. Westerners...
It is easy to argue that is more likely that, in this game universe, light is the evil one.
In this game we do not see Dormin doing anything evil. Not are we informed of anything evil done in the past. On the contrary, he/she is the giver of life. He/she resurrects Mono, as promised. The price was high, but he/she warns wander about it. No lies. No deception. And it is not an arbitrary condition: Dormin needs to be freed in order to regain the power needed to perform the task that Wander requested.
The tribe of Wander is the giver or death. They killed Mono because some nebulous fate. That's what we know for sure.
But Dormin kills nobody. Not even his/her attackers. He/she can't do that, that is not his/her nature.
Add this to the thought: Agro is also miraculously alive at the end. a) it is impossible that she did survive the fall. b) neither mono, wander or the tribe revives her. So the only option is that she was revived by the entity who we know it can return life: Dormin.
That's Dormin deal: returning life. That's why the forbidden lands were before a prosperous land and now they are only ruins, after Dormin's banishing. If there is a mythological parallel, think of the lost Garden of Eden. The colossi, made by the ancestors of the tribe, are the angels forbidding not the entrance, but the liberation of Dormin. The tribe doesn't want a world were they are all blissed but not in power, and they require death to be permanent in order to achieve that power, because without that, their punishments and sacrifices are meaningless.
For the givers of death to stay in power, the unkillable giver or life must be put to sleep.
'qui vivificat est dormiens'
Amazing take, no clue why this isn't more upvoted!
Underrated comment
Now heres a side Ive never once concidered.
Top marks, my man.
Damn man, this theory is the coolest I've ever read
the best sotc theory that I've ever read
wow
I like to imagine that during the ritual that split dormin into 16 pieces. The Colossus's bodies were man made from stone and clay, and were given a part of dormins soul. But I don't think that the Colossus are part of dormin, or on dormins side, I think they're just made to keep anyone from releasing dormins souls. And the statues are like the chain that holds the Colossus to the forbidden lands. I also believe that wander is returned to an infant as the well is meant to remove all the darkness from the temple, so being a baby is a sign of true inocents, essentially washing him of all his sins, even before he fought the Colossus.
It’s kind of a simple yet interesting change they made to typical stories.
The wise shaman is the antagonist and the evil deity is effectively the closest thing to a mentor for the hero.
Wonder is reborn as a horned child because there is nothing more innocent than a new born baby. And the horns are a mark of what he had done
Ah, a fellow Warrior of Sunlight. A subscribe has been given.
To my sword, and your valor, and to Gwynevere's righteous bewbage. LONG MAY THE SUN SHINE! AHAHAHAHAHA!!
@@sunnbrothers3183 ...Well, I'm going to have myself a little nap. That's the only thing to do really after a nice toast.
I personally love the idea of monos fate being a self fulfilling prophecy. She was destined to have a cursed fate so in order to prevent it she is killed. Her lover Wander unable to accept such an absurd idea steals her body away and sacrifices everything to bring her back and succeeded however he is possessed by dormin as his end of the bargain giving mono her soul back. I think you are right in that her soul was tainted being handled by dormin thus eventually causing her decent into madness and becoming the evil queen. I also think the reason wander is reborn as a baby is the priests prayer being answered as a result perhaps of the lingering effects of the spell they just cast to purify wander and dormin. I think it was able to work because despite being so saturated with darkness he was pulled into the well of light there was still a small portion that was trying to resist. The pure form that causes all of this for love. He is reincarnated in an endless loop as the horned boy, marked by horns so even if he has no memory of it all who view him know of his past transgressions. He must overcome his former love and allow her to finally rest no longer forced to live a twisted mockery of her past life, and in so doing wander is redeemed and Icos final horn falls from his head finally able to live as a normal child
Great video
Angry pointing woman: A SUNN BROTHERS PRODUCTION - White Cat: A BROTHERS SUNN PRODUCTION
A shadow of the colossus movie with little to no dialogue would have serious potential. But only if they keep it vague and open to interpretation like the game
for the light beams that appear where you killed the colossi I think that at the top where there is the black spot where it goes into the clouds are portals and and the same thing with the hole in the middle it is a portal back to the temple the hole in the middle is also where Dorman is held
Awesome video
The land is cursed and the colossuses are cursed. Killing the colossuses removes the curse from that being. That is why I never felt bad in killing the colossuses because we were just curing them of the curse. We know this is true because at the end of the game, Wonder becomes a cursed colossus himself.
6:40 Honestly, I felt a deep sense of frustration with the horse by that point. So sluggish to control and very rarely used in the battles. (Might have been different if I'd never seen any LPs of the game before playing myself, though.)
Darkness literally doesn't contain light. It is the absence of light.
Yeah that bothered me too when he said it. Pure darkness is possible, and so is pure light with no shadow.
19:05 "it may have given her an unnaturally long life, a life long enough to repopulate with Wander and their children."
*SWEET HOME ALABAMA*
awesome video
Don’t think I saw anyone say this, but I think the pool cleansed all of the darkness. Assuming they are beings of light, the small amount left in Wander was only enough to leave him in the form of a baby. But the darkness was too much a part of him already, inseparable. So you are left with a badass horned protagonist
A bit late to the party but here's my take on the game:
I think in a moral sense the game was really about Wander's deal with Dormin. In a metaphorical sense, the game is about Wander's innocence; on one hand, he was heroic because he was willing to do whatever it took to revive Mono. On the other, he was reckless and foolish for trusting someone (or something) that he did not truly comprehend. There are many ways to interpret this game, both in terms of lore and of the "message" the game is trying to tell. I just was thinking about this game, thought of this and sort of wanted to tell someone, but I don't know anyone else who has played this game idk
I'm suprised you all dont know that each game is connected to the other. Icko (Iko) Is wander. Mono becomes the pale lady. as to how the last guardian plays into all of this, I am not yet sure, but delving deep is always fun!
Very nice video analysis! You earned a sub from me
Noice! Much appreciated brother! We had a lot of fun with this one 👍
From subway? 12in on italian
I played this game so many times on 3 console generations.
Thank You to all Japanese Game Developers.
i assumed because the light counters dormin, it made wander into a child because children are innocent, pure, uncorrupted. it is the opposite of the malice, evil and corruption of Dormin. the horns are the last parts of Dormin's evil in wander that managed to survive the light
I liked this video
The queen in ico has to be mono since mono was sacrificed because she was dangerous in the first place.
Very interesting video, the game is also very good as well.
As far as being inexperienced with the sword. I’m not sure that’s necessarily even true. He’s not fighting against humanoids armed with weapons. He’s stabbing it into a giant monster that’s impossible to miss whilst climbing with the other hand.
He’s only being as precise as the situation calls for.
I'm talking more about the way he swings the sword while on the ground. The way he swings doesn't look like the technique of someone that's comfortable with a sword. The way he throws too much of his body into it, wasting energy, preventing proper follow-up strikes or defensive maneuvers if one was fighting another human. Again, it could've just been the devs saying, "who cares how it looks? It's not something they'll be doing much." But I like to think that everything in this game was done with a measure of purpose, to convey something without saying it outright.
The only thing i cqn say that i cried and felt sorrow for days back then when i finished on Ps2
well I think the light have taken out all the evil in Wander. But as the Dormin used Wander as it's vessel, it is possible that Dormin is still inside Wander. The reason why Wander became a baby because the babies have pure innocence; they don't know what is good or evil.
It means that Wander and Dormin have somewhat good in their soul despite the darkness they have possessed
If you look Closer into valus's legs it might look like a entrance to a tower
Dormin is dangerous to say the least but he’s not a liar, he did resurrect Mono even when he himself was being destroyed, that being said he is also manipulative and I have my doubts that he would be open to discussing what the “heavy price” would be even if Wander cared.