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Judo newaza Don't
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- Опубликовано: 1 дек 2019
- Judo newaza Don't
I see knee wrestling all the time. It is the biggest waste of your precious Judo training time. Please dont do it!
#judo #bjj
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Thank you for filming this. Knee wrestling is one of the most stupid things ever, but is unfortunately common in Judo. It's good to see someone at a higher rank state this out loud.
It's kinda fun tho.
Speaking as a BJJ instructor, I totally agree. When having my students do newaza rounds I always have them start from a position that could realistically result from a takedown or guard pull.
Love your vids man ...I'm a bjj guy who splits 50/50 standing/ground work. Nicely explained videos and super easy to understand.
I need literally everyone in the world to watch this video.
100% correct. If you’re school makes you start from the knees for newaza, let the other guy push you over and start your game from disadvantage. I learned from my early days that you cheat both you and yourself from actually practicing and training the real techniques from my fear of being on my back.
Now, if the opponent wants top, he can have it. Never resist force with direct force. And ever since, my game has consistently improved.
Extremely good video that everyone should watch before training Newaza.
- From aJudoka and a Gracie Jiujitsu practitioner who can identify with this wisdom.
Thank you Sensei. Good instruction as always, sir!
Another judo don't: while flattening oneself out on one's stomach is a legitimate technique to save yourself from a pin or submission, try engaging in the newaza as if it's BJJ rules to improve many aspects of your newaza game rather than just your ability to stay on your flattened out on your belly!
Alec Wilcosky this is what I try to do. A lot of my classmates will just Tuttle up and assume that I will give up and reset. However I treat it how I would submission grappling and dig in. It has worked for me okay
So frustrating when people want to run out the clock instead of actually grappling me lol
Alec Wilcosky good opportunity to work on my deadlift form lifting them up from the belt to get hooks in 😂
excepts usually in a comp, when a transition happens from a throw, the person being thrown instinctively goes into a turtle defence or flat. so alternating who plays defence to start the randori is actually a more real world approach to ni waza in Judo. If you plan on competing . And that is why I also think knee wrestling is silly )although I have actually seen it in my time in comps very occasionally.
I have developed my own ways of being the one on the offence from a defensive position due to the way we train ni-waza. Just because someone is flat or turtle, does not mean they are playing the clock or playing defence. Be very careful because you may just end up being baited
I disagree a bit there, purely because for judo, pulling down promotes chokes and transition from the front, like a sankaku turnover, and armpit and collar choke (like a reverse okuri eri turnover) and kuzushi, tewaza in positions that really made me strong on Newaza in the past, and pulling guard from that position while the other trying to get past the legs, plus it was loads of fun, just my opinion, but I was used to practicing Newaza from that position in the past and learned a lot, especially the grips. Great channel.
At my dojo we do that, but only for the kids under the age of 12
Everyone above starts in standing and guard position since as you said if both are on their knees they would just stand up and go for takedown from a standing position which is obviously easier then from a kneeling position
Of course we get taught how to pass guard and how to sweep from guard so that no party is overly dominant
Thanks for pointing out the uselessness of both fighters kneeling
All sparring in my bjj class starts on the knees. I hate it. Can you make a video of how to quickly (and safely) go from knee to guard, mount or whatever?
Just get your grips and leg switch, or literally go from your knees and sit in open guard as soon as the match starts. If the other person doesn't stand you can easily pull them into your guard or sweep by pushing out the knees. If they won't let you sweep them, that means they are engaging, and not on their knees anymore. Either way, problem solved.
In a ijf tournament, how long do we have to do newaza when we're on the ground? about 2-3 seconds?
You are a hero for putting this video out. Knee wrestling is stupid and a waste of time. Every sensei from Nome, AK to Suva, Fiji and all points in between should teach this day one.
You're the hero we need, not the one we deserve.
I do both judo and Bjj, I never think about this🤣 Interest, thank!
Make more newaza vidéo 🙏🙏
I wish that I was given this advice ten years earlier.
Personnally when starting "on the knees" I immediately put myself sitting on my butt, like in a butterfly guard (see how Marcelo Garcia rolls for example, I try to do the same)
Thought you were going to say something like "don't stand up", cause when I went to my first judo lesson and someone put me in the "judo not actually closed guard", that is logically the first thing I did, but got told you can't because matte will be called. I then spent the rest of the training pulling guard (because I don't really like guard passing from the knees), and some people were confused by that lol.
I like when people do it to me , can use their momentum to sweep , the surprise on the face is precious ;)
Guilty... I will think about that tomorrow at my bjj training
Great points. I hate staying there anyway, because it just plain hurts. It's one of those things that, like drop seoi nage, I have to avoid because of pain in my janky knees.
Yah, I also try to train moves that I could use on concrete. Any "drop your knee to the mat" techniques are a no-go for me lol.
i like to just attack basic armbar right away from that position to get things started and if the person defends or passes my guard and gets on top i can just start working from there
Ok, the message is clear and I see your point. What is your proposal how to practice newaza randori?
Start in a more realistic position such as guard, turtle, or half-guard. Obviously being on the bottom of turtle is not the most fun, but it does pay off!
He suggested them already.
One of the best examples for the effect you create is Hanmi hantachi in Aikido: in order to grab Nage the Uke must bend down to him or at least lean forward and that's what Nage uses against him easily.
Thank You. Nothing is stupider in training.
So what should we do? Also I wish someone at my Dojo had told me this.
They only mentioned in the video, one person should just start on their back, playing guard
Start in the guard, in turtle, or half-guard. Take turns with who is on bottom. This requires a little more negotiation with your partner, but it pays off.
It is good practice for judo newaza competitions as facing each other on your knees is how you start a newaza competition other than that that it's a totally unrealistic position to ever be👍
From my understanding Seiza was introduced to add the concepts of ‘bunbu ryodo’ - the martial and the cultural way, together, especially the concepts of zanshin & o-shiki-uchi, because Jujutsu was associated with gangsters during the Meiji era.
Can you explain more and what does it have to do with what we saw in the video
Seiza is the position they are sitting in on both knees. On one knee it is called Hiza. He stated in the video that these positions doesn't exist, but it's actually part of several Judo Kata and taught as a way to introduce newaza from suwariwaza. It's a safe neutral position to start from similar to par terre in wrestling where both are already down on the mat before starting thereby bypassing the tachiwaza standing technique phase. When I started learning Gracie Jiujitsu and Judo both introduced newaza from seiza. I started GJJ in 1994 and Judo in 1989. The predecessor ryuha of Judo also have curriculum that start from seiza.
Ok, i admit we are starting often newaza randori at the knees. But we prefer doing the knee stand with only one knee down - Katame-no-Kata style i would say.
Normally it takes no long time to go top or bottom ... At BJJ randoris i remember, its not uncommon too ...
If it were such useless, why Katame-no-Kata emphazises shikkô (膝行 - movement on the knees)?
Is it against the rules to use standing guard passes in judo? Tried to use a toreando pass and was reprimanded by one of the black belts. I can’t tell if it’s because it’s bad etiquette or if it’s because nobody there likes me lol.
I’m a yellow belt in judo but have trained a fair bit of bjj and a lot of people seem to not like me. idk if it’s because people think I’m a sandbagger or something but a lot of the old black belts seem to hate bjj practitioners aha
i did that too and the teacher immediately stopped me. Apparently you "can't" use standing guard passes because "as soon as you stand up the ref will call matte" - it's not a foul or anything like that though. They just don't want you doing it because it is not competition-relevant.
Tbh it's just another part of the IJF ruleset that I cannot stand, which is why I compete in BJJ although I love and train both.
Mirage- that’s crazy I would have thought I would be allowed to stand and immediately toreando pass or something.
It’s probably annoying to roll bjj guys because I probably break rules like this all the time. Still not sure if I can touch the back of the opponents head to keep posture down in closed guard and things like that.
buzz magister I think the judo rules changed dramatically in the last 10 years but I’m not 100% sure about when.
And yeah haha I mostly try to take people’s irritation as a sign that my ne Waza is a little too good for their liking. Not that I’m amazing or anything it’s just all I do. I’ll look into some referee courses so that I don’t feel quite as out of my depth :)
I agree. I only start from positions now. Knee wrestling is a waste of time and energy.
In my class we stand up to take down then roll in jiujitsu but we do wrestling judo the important parts to get to the floor i jump gaurd sometimes just hurry things lol
Totally agree
ITS FUN THO!!!
Wow, I am shocked at what he is saying. As a BJJ black belt and a Judo black belt, if I am starting on my knees and my opponent stands up, I am going to go to ashi garame or de la riva and sweep my opponent down and go immediately for an ankle lock submission. Yes, I agree that real fights don't start on the knees, though they often end up there while in transition from the ground up to the feet or on the way own from poor balance on someone's part. There are a dozen or more takedowns when I am on my knees and my partner stands, which is what I am going to do. So, it is not a waste of time. Learn to dominate from ALL positions and all situations would be a more worthwhile pursuit.
You are a different case. MOST people are not double black belts like you. Have you seen what happens when two beginners start from their knees?
You are a different case. MOST people are not double black belts like you. Have you seen what happens when two beginners start from their knees?
In jits one guy will be on his knees and the other guy will be on his back. The position you may hypothetically be in after a take down. Our instructor calls knee wrestling “footsies” and says “don’t play footsies with your training partner.”
Jay Middleton Open bjj randori typically starts w both on knees. Higher rank typically dictates starting position by either sitting guard or staying on knees, implying other should sit guard.
Shannon Sofield yeah that’s how we do it - sitting guard vs knees. Not the same as knee wrestling. Our instructor always calls it footsies if both people are doing the same thing - particularly if both people are in sitting guard.
I always hate "knee wrestling". It feels so awkward.
As unrealistic as it is, Judo throws still work from the knee wrestling position so I just use those.
Dude on the right looks like a lean version of Jason Mamoa
God I hate starting from knees! I just find it so dumb.. and I suck ass on the ground so that’s probably why.
Can confirm, I practice Bjj and for years I’ve come across guys when we start on our knees, if I push into them to go in their guard, they either push back ferociously or back away to retreat, so then if I pull on them to get them in my guard, again they back away and retreat and I’m like DUDE WTF are we gonna spend the entire round pushing and pulling and not actually rolling? Quit being such a scary ass and just let me jump in your guard or come into mine nobody cares, it’s just TRAINING.
Sometimes I just give in and let them bulldoze me and give away a submission to let them feel more comfortable then begin to turn the heat up. It’s like an icebreaker thing, some people really just don’t wanna lose anything at all even if it’s just an inch of position.
you can just lay ib your back if you do not want to fight in your knee
Damn straight. That stuff is for BJJ schools, trying to stack their training hall with students in order to buy that nice house!
Guilty...
Kian G we all are...
from personal experience in BJJ, one reason to start on knees is because too many people on a little bit of mat space. It saves people getting thrown to one another
It's not about starting on knees but knee wrestling is pointless, pull guard if the other guy doesn't pull guard, that way you can start the actual training
You did not get the point.
Well it does happen. But not very often. We find when teaching kids and beginners it can be helpful but I think when they progress you should mostly move on. Though every now and then is is just plain fun.
I posted a video much like this on a couple of judo FB groups.. I was shocked by the hurt feelings and salty attitude I got from a lot of judokas even high ranking. In the freestyle judo group I posted to I was met with hostility and immature comments again from higher ranks.
Why would even higher ranks believe knee wrestling has so much benefit?
I take on this was that ultimately itasca waste of time. Look to break them down, or work on your guard or passing.
in real live it does not existe so if it does not exist how you can start in yours knees?
it exist is educational and developpe habilities to put the other persone down to be in top position .
is safer than standing up and is not a waste of time .
when start standing up and no one can to theother one down is a losing time?
Rotweisser Gürtel zum blauen Gi, das ist no go. Müsste man wissen als Danträger.
Thank you for the thoughtful suggestion. I will make sure I avoid this in the future. 👍🙏
JESUS thank you
Ramsey Dewey said the same thing: ruclips.net/video/KBlr5BV4LWc/видео.html
I think there's also a video of Keenan Cornelius on the same topic
Check also:
ruclips.net/video/ObTZTQgWowE/видео.html
ruclips.net/video/lu_uJQFaAO0/видео.html
Ane pertamax gan
Isn't that the dragon from Skyrim?
Sensei Higashi, isn't ''Brazilian'' Jiu Jitsu really just Newaza-Judo? I feel like BJJ is plagiarized. That being said, isn't modern Judo not just a very restricted form of Kodokan-Judo, with so many techniques being banned? I was shocked to learn that heel hooks and leg attacks originally came from Judo.
Knee wrestling can be good for people who are just starting out and aren't used to proper ukemi yet, or for people with injuries, as it reduces the amount of space to fall, saving energy for the ground game. One could think of wrestling from the knees as training wheels, whilst standup to newaza is the full experience.
Keritzel Justifying a very stupid practice does not make his point wrong.
Wrestling on your knees is for people who chickened out of the stand up fight. Weak stuff. Just stop and give top so you can actually learn something.
If you are afraid to give top, then you need to.
Could you please do a video about the history of Judo? How it started and the evolution to the art🙏
It depends on the setting for me. :-)
Yah, it's so stupid. There are 3 acceptable ways to start, imo. Both standing, one standing and one in open guard, or in a position with one person being dominant and the other defending/escaping.
👌👍
This happened to me last week! It was so stupid. Precisely the kind of silly unrealistic scramble that you see here. This week we sorted it out, going into newaza from failed throws and taking turns in position and I had my best newaza session ever. Must have learnt about three new holds and escapes from them.
OOSSSSSS ^^
Does your newaza have as much submission as bjj?
All bjj submissions are from judo newaza
@@johnathannelsonento2040 At the beginning yes but, bjj has had years to refine and mold newaza. A judo guy isn't beating a bjj guy in newaza unless his Kosen judo teacher is a bjj expect and puts as much emphasis on newaza as much as throws but I've yet to see that. That's why I asked.
@@LibraryAstro tell that to Kimura
@@johnathannelsonento2040 How long ago did Kimura fight Gracie? Did I not say bjj has involved ? Do you see judo guys winning adcc?
@@LibraryAstro typically the highest level judoka dont bother with adcc or mma for that matter. They're more focused on world championships or Olympic competition.
Wow, this should be written on the walls.
Certainly guilty of this in the past..
I hate this in BJJ it's such a waste of time plus it's terrible for your knees.
Someone should play guard aka bottom position and get on with the game. Or if you want to fight for to position stand up and play that game!
👍👍👌👌🙏🙏🥊🥊🥋🥋
If its bad in judo its even worse at bjj schools i see! Especially beginners, always tell them to stand or start in butt and they just stare at me puzzled
Derek Butler-Kim it’s a white belt thing. I doubt you’ll find many color belt knee wrestling.
i guess you culd start from feet
that's my talking, it's so stupid. someone stand up then opponent stand up that's common sense who fuxxing push oppenent on nee down position. who fuxxing push with each other in real situation. and I don't understand why two man must nee down for newaza. i'm seriously confuse because this fuxx rule. when person guard position then i can stand up? or not? bjj can do that... it fuxxing shit.
I thought the biggest don't would have been *don't roll with a BJJ blackbelt*
Midget wrestling can be useful if you are attacked by one!
Arigato! I hate the start from knees or butt. Plus leave the slaps and fist bumps at your Bjj clubs. Judo we bow. Gomen but I can’t understand why so many people accept these silly Bjj dogmas. Either attack from standing or choose to be the guy on the bottom. Arigato
I am the tamilnadu best player
Hey I'm a wrestler, I learned while standing up, engage I a clinch and sprawl or drop to your knee, there was a guy on my team who would do this and then flatten you.
In my Judo club, they teach this nonsense. Ground randori on the knees...
That's exactly how most of my bjj and judo newaza sessions start off 😂. I do find that it is a great way to develop good timing with pushing and pulling in the 8 directions. It also allows me to read how different people react. Especially in bjj a lot of bjj practioners aren't well versed in judo and you can almost certainly take advantage to gain a more dominant position. I can even get some ogoshis and uchimatas from the knees.
As a man with his legs amputated below the knee, Shintaro Higashi better hope he never encounters me around NYC.
Heh, this kid literally thinks my primary position doesn’t exist. Judo 101: never think your opponent doesn’t exist.
See you when I see you, sensei.
Could not disagree more vigorously. The first fight is always to avoid going into guard or to pull guard so you should not agree on who gets to do it. You should fight for it
Bilbo Baggins noob
That would be fine if you had tachi-waza transitions into ne-waza. But if you really think that its worth knee wrestling for position, then you are wasting time.
Utterly no purpose in self defence, competition, knee health and plain aesthetics. Better off letting one guy work his passing and the other work on sweeps.
All these years of my life wasted `a knee wrasslin`....
Got it. I don't have to watch the video and I only read the title. I will not do Judo newaza. Thanks for the advice.
start from a hold down... kesa gatame or yoko shiho or any of the many other hold downs and practice both holding and escaping... practice both side's from the inside and the outside lol lol lol ... done
Personally, for me a big No No is the freaking turtle position.
you're just shouting to the winds man, people are gonna be doing that dumb crap forever. I guess if you're watching this, just don't be that guy.
Your absolutely incorrect.......I'm a 3rd Dan in judo .......judo is a limited art with rules. Fighting from kneeling position helps with many things such as arm drags, reversals. ect.......... If you are not very experienced in takedowns such as white belts
First of all I don't want to offend you to get that out of the way
In fact I'm not even a Judoka myself but a bjj practitioner
I was just wondering how you practice an arm drag while on your knees since you want to drag the opponent to make a step and you have to step in yourself to get on the opponents back
I believe it would be rather impractical to do that from a kneeling position
Can you describe how you do it?
From my experience fighting on your knees always resulted in having the stronger and heavier person overpower the weaker person and getting a good position so I would gladly take your advice to up my ground game
YOU are absolutely incorrect and making excuses cuz what you do has been called out.
Arm Drag with the Inside Step or the Outside Step?
Oh wait, you cannot do EITHER from your knees. Apparently you have developed a poor Arm
Drag for starters, as it is impossible to train it correctly to use standing from there.
Just one example.