I can recommend the KMC EPT chain which "have to pass a 650-hour salt test". Also you can spray ACF-50 into the inner and outer parts of your bike. It was developed to stop corrosion in the aero space industry. It can go in the bottom bracket housing (if alloy), down the seat tube and in the headset housing. Its not a replacement for grease, but can be sprayed additionally. It can also be sprayed onto the derailleur springs and rim brake springs .It can even be injected into the outer cable housing. There are also specific corrosion block greases which are supposed to have an agent that actively fights corrosion (though not sure how effective these are).
I just recently started considering an EPT chain, as I seem to have totally underestimated the potential of waxed chains to rust. Just a couple weeks ago I installed my first waxed chain, a standard Shimano (105, if I recall correctly). I knew that the wax wouldn't protect it from corrosion nearly as well as an oil-based lube, so I carry a microfiber cloth on my rides and make sure to dry the chain with it at the end of any wet ride. I assumed that a simple wipe-drying with a cloth would be sufficient to prevent corrosion, but I've very quickly come to realise that it definitely isn't, as most of the links on the chain show noticeable rust-spots after just a few wet rides. The bike is stored inside, in my building's dedicated bike-storage, which is relatively warm and not super humid.
@@MarginalLossesI have an EPT chain and immersive wax and they do work. I also have Aluminium 7075 alloy Zicral chainrings which are much harder than the 6061 alloy ones and don't rust. I still dry my drivetrain , especially after a salty ride to stop galvanic corrosion.
@@MarginalLosses yes I had the same issues when switching to wax. Many of those proponents of chain waxing are from Australia (Adam Kerin, Oz cycle), which has a dry climate. I run waxed Ept chains in winter. One thing though, when the roads are salted, even the ept chain struggles. I have taken to spraying water over the chain when I come home at night and drying with a cloth. This is only needed when there is salt though.
As a corrosion engineer it sparks my OCD when people talk about 'rust' vs corrosion or even 'surface corrosion'. *All* metals and alloys corrode (including Ti) depending on the exposure conditions; that's fundamental thermodynamics folks. 'Rust' is hydrated iron oxide and corrosion is the electrochemical process that forms 'rust'. Al corrodes to form alumina. Most atmospherically formed 'rust' actually looks far worse than it is in terms of metal loss: only about 10% of the total mass is iron from the corroded steel. Pitting is a different matter, but loss of structural integrity due to corrosion on a bike could take years depending on the wall thickness of the component.
Any kind of pitting is likely to make a precision part like a chain useless, and perhaps even dangerous, because it could break under load, and at the very least run rough and inefficient. Same with bearings. Probably less of a problem with most other bike parts, and even less so with car parts, unless, again, they're precision parts like engine or transmission internals. And yes, even Ti "rusts" (i.e. corrodes), but it's such a microscopically thin layer that you can't see it, and from what I understand it actually protects the Ti underneath. Truly a miracle metal. Whereas when even Al "rusts", it leaves these nasty-looking white aluminum salt deposits. And I'm using the word "rust" very loosely of course, and only ferrous metals actually rust.
Really good info thanks again guys, recently discovered GCN and it’s brilliant as I’ve just returned to road riding. Without going all Karen what’s happened to the word “very”. Everything is now super exciting super important super difficult…….! Cheers for the video
I know that some might find it going a bit too far but I bought myself a cheap hairdryer (this one has a nozzle attachment making it quite directional) on Amazon that now lives out in the shed and is used purely for giving some of the nooks and crannies a blast after washing the bike.
Not at all going too far because flash rust can actually start forming literally within seconds, not hours. I've seen it myself. So absolutely dry a newly derusted part as quickly and completely as possible, then coat it with some oil, lube or wax. Air drying isn't always fast enough. Another method is to dip it in alcohol, which will drive off most of the water.
Cables on mountain bikes, I use steel cables they stretch a lot less. On the roadbikes? Rust?! Are you crazy these babies are cleaned and dried after each ride and stored in a no window humidity controlled room. 😅
Just about every bit of metal on my old mountain bike went rusty. I did use it to cycle between 2 islands at low tide regularly. I just greased up or replaced part, repainted the frame many times and its still going 25 years after I got it second hand.
Worst place for me are the bolts on the stem and water bottle holders. These do not easily drain out and if you ride in the rain a lot especially as a commuter these will rust. My fix is to apply a couple of times during the year a drop of Triflow lubricant on the each bolt head. It is teflon based and does the trick for me.
@@hulabulaaaHow so? If it completely covers the metal then how could it rust, unless you wait too long between rewaxing and metal is exposed. So if you wax and are done for the year and store your bike, either rewax it first, or at least apply some oil or lube until you're ready to start riding again, then wipe that down.
Hydrogenated aluminium oxychloride (HAO) is your bicycle's worst nightmare. It can be caused by contact even between different aluminium alloys. It will grow so big, 3.5 times the original volume, that it will cause serious damage causing fasteners to fail. Put an aluminium fastener in a steel component and it won't take long to fail. Your High School chemistry may work in a student's lab but not in real world applications with water and salty electrolytes.
Basically yes, Aluminium Oxide does protect the Aluminium beneath. But like @MarkSmithSa said, it tends to expand, so it also damages any paint from underneath, and creeps further under the paint. Generally it does not structurally harm the metal so you can sand it and reapply paint, BUT metals are weird, they tend to sacrifice themselves. What that means is, there is sort of a nobility structure between metals, and the lesser noble metal gets sacrifised. This can occur through simply the two metals touching. So yeah oxidised aluminium components like screws and fasteners can be dangerous, just as rusty steel ones. To be fair, when you buy a bike, whatever the producer of said bike is, knows about this, and won't mix metals too much. Bigger problem can be, when you start messing with the screws on the bike yourself. Correctly applying new paint, is a bit more complicated than GCN makes it out to be in this video... that is if you want it to be actually usefull and good looking. Explaining that would take a bit more time though, and if it's an expensive bike... rather leave it to a professional.
RE “Can carbon fiber rust/corrode”, yes you are correct carbon fiber itself cannot corrode. However, most carbon frames use alloy inserts for stuff like the BB threads and brake mounts. Those areas absolutely CAN rust and you do need to still keep an eye on those areas.
Evapo-rust is amazing for rustremoval. I use Boeshield T-9 on aluminium inserts in alu, steel and carbon frames and on alu corrosion under paint, carbon etc. to prevent it from expanding further. I use Smoove as it is a wax dripon but with a little oil for rust prevention of the chain.
As a marine engineer this is routine stuff. Galvanic corrosion caused by an electrolyte between dissimilar metals. We used to learn about this at school.
@@MarkSmithSaI have a similar blower and it's very useful well beyond this. I use it to clean the inside of my PC and various nooks and crannies at home and in my car, even my bike. I even use it as a light leaf blower when working on my car outside. The one I have is also a mini vacuum cleaner, with a mini HEPA filter!
Despite my best efforts cleaning and drying, some of my hex bolt heads have a little superficial rust building up after outdoor rides. Would I be better off treating them with a rust inhibitor or fill the bolt head with grease on a regular basis?
hi GCN, could you talk about headset expansion plug please? (although i saw you guys done a simple one before) like things to be aware of, length/types/how to install... so on got a 1 inch carbon fork and finally kind of found the ONE expansion plug, and it has drive my crazy, felt like i done a phd topic on it. thanks in advance
One of the best practices after a bike wash, is to dry the chain with a micro fiber cloth, and then apply lubricant. Most chain lubricants require time to set anyways
# ask Gcn tech Hi all great show , can you please tell me if there is a calculation that you can do to find out the watts that we were putting out say back in the 1970’s before power meters . ie riders weight 70 kgs over 10 miles ( 16 kilometres ) with a time of 22:30 . Would great to know what sort of power we were doing on steel bikes etc . Many thanks
It's not that complicated because unlike cars which not everyone can store inside a garage and whose under sides and parts are hard and take time to get to, clean, dry and protect, which therefore tend to rust, bikes can generally be stored inside, easily cleaned, wiped off, dried and lubricated. So unless for some reason you have to store your bike outside, only laziness or literally not having the time and energy to do the relatively little it takes to keep rust off of a bike is why most bikes rust. Also, a little tip. If you use muriatic acid, a common pool cleaner, DO NOT store it anywhere near your bikes and anything else that's iron or steel or it WILL cause MASSIVE rusting, even if you seal it well.
Expensive bicycles with materials that are corrosion-proof, such as titanium and carbon, are not left outside because of the high risk of theft. Cheap bicycles, with a low risk of theft and slightly rusty steel, can be left on the bicycle rack in front of the house. But these bikes rust there.
Are you ever going to do some actual performance testing of the DRIVE wheels or just highlight them by including them in your videos. This is really getting annoying.
If it's not really much rust oil it and ride it. The rust will wear away during ride. If the chain is extremely rusty (like on an old, abandoned bike) the chain can be gone if the rust is not just outside on the plates.
If the rust doesn't appear to be too bad then obtain something called Evaporust, remove the chain and soak it completely in it overnight or longer, occasionally agitating it. It's non rough on your hands so you don't need gloves. Then remove it, rinse it off thoroughly with warm water while brushing it off to get any dissolved rust and the Evaporust off, dry it off with a hair dryer or blower of some sort, and if it looks like it's still in good shape, lube and use it. If it's pitted or the links don't move freely, it's toast and you need a new chain. Save the Evaporust as it can be reused. I've tried all kinds of rust removal methods and this is the only one that can get inside the parts that you can't get to with a brush and really get rust off, without harming the metal, which most acids and traditional rust removers can do. You could also use a weak acid like vinegar, which if the rust is really light might work well too, following the same procedures.
I can recommend the KMC EPT chain which "have to pass a 650-hour salt test". Also you can spray ACF-50 into the inner and outer parts of your bike. It was developed to stop corrosion in the aero space industry. It can go in the bottom bracket housing (if alloy), down the seat tube and in the headset housing. Its not a replacement for grease, but can be sprayed additionally. It can also be sprayed onto the derailleur springs and rim brake springs .It can even be injected into the outer cable housing. There are also specific corrosion block greases which are supposed to have an agent that actively fights corrosion (though not sure how effective these are).
I just recently started considering an EPT chain, as I seem to have totally underestimated the potential of waxed chains to rust. Just a couple weeks ago I installed my first waxed chain, a standard Shimano (105, if I recall correctly). I knew that the wax wouldn't protect it from corrosion nearly as well as an oil-based lube, so I carry a microfiber cloth on my rides and make sure to dry the chain with it at the end of any wet ride. I assumed that a simple wipe-drying with a cloth would be sufficient to prevent corrosion, but I've very quickly come to realise that it definitely isn't, as most of the links on the chain show noticeable rust-spots after just a few wet rides. The bike is stored inside, in my building's dedicated bike-storage, which is relatively warm and not super humid.
@@MarginalLossesI have an EPT chain and immersive wax and they do work. I also have Aluminium 7075 alloy Zicral chainrings which are much harder than the 6061 alloy ones and don't rust. I still dry my drivetrain , especially after a salty ride to stop galvanic corrosion.
@@MarginalLosses yes I had the same issues when switching to wax. Many of those proponents of chain waxing are from Australia (Adam Kerin, Oz cycle), which has a dry climate. I run waxed Ept chains in winter. One thing though, when the roads are salted, even the ept chain struggles. I have taken to spraying water over the chain when I come home at night and drying with a cloth. This is only needed when there is salt though.
@@MarginalLosses Haha, maybe that rust will reduce the weight of your chain, while still being structurally sound?
As a corrosion engineer it sparks my OCD when people talk about 'rust' vs corrosion or even 'surface corrosion'. *All* metals and alloys corrode (including Ti) depending on the exposure conditions; that's fundamental thermodynamics folks. 'Rust' is hydrated iron oxide and corrosion is the electrochemical process that forms 'rust'. Al corrodes to form alumina. Most atmospherically formed 'rust' actually looks far worse than it is in terms of metal loss: only about 10% of the total mass is iron from the corroded steel. Pitting is a different matter, but loss of structural integrity due to corrosion on a bike could take years depending on the wall thickness of the component.
Any kind of pitting is likely to make a precision part like a chain useless, and perhaps even dangerous, because it could break under load, and at the very least run rough and inefficient. Same with bearings. Probably less of a problem with most other bike parts, and even less so with car parts, unless, again, they're precision parts like engine or transmission internals.
And yes, even Ti "rusts" (i.e. corrodes), but it's such a microscopically thin layer that you can't see it, and from what I understand it actually protects the Ti underneath. Truly a miracle metal. Whereas when even Al "rusts", it leaves these nasty-looking white aluminum salt deposits. And I'm using the word "rust" very loosely of course, and only ferrous metals actually rust.
Had my 3 year old bike serviced last week. Had to have new headset bearings due to rust. Would've never known from the outside.
Just had to replace my chain after some wet snowy winter rides. I didn’t dry it straight away - hard lesson.
Now you know! 👀at least you didn't have to replace the cassette?
I replace my chain every spring anyway
Really good info thanks again guys, recently discovered GCN and it’s brilliant as I’ve just returned to road riding. Without going all Karen what’s happened to the word “very”. Everything is now super exciting super important super difficult…….! Cheers for the video
hi, thanks for the comment and glad you are enjoying our videos 🫶
I know that some might find it going a bit too far but I bought myself a cheap hairdryer (this one has a nozzle attachment making it quite directional) on Amazon that now lives out in the shed and is used purely for giving some of the nooks and crannies a blast after washing the bike.
just be careful near water!
@@gcntech True, but I wash the bike outdoors and then bring it in the shed for drying, so should be perfectly safe.
Not at all going too far because flash rust can actually start forming literally within seconds, not hours. I've seen it myself. So absolutely dry a newly derusted part as quickly and completely as possible, then coat it with some oil, lube or wax. Air drying isn't always fast enough. Another method is to dip it in alcohol, which will drive off most of the water.
What is the rustiest part you've seen on your bike (excluding your legs 👀)? Let us know 👇
Inside of bolt heads.
Cables on mountain bikes, I use steel cables they stretch a lot less.
On the roadbikes? Rust?! Are you crazy these babies are cleaned and dried after each ride and stored in a no window humidity controlled room.
😅
My Arse is pretty rusty 😂😂😂
Just about every bit of metal on my old mountain bike went rusty. I did use it to cycle between 2 islands at low tide regularly. I just greased up or replaced part, repainted the frame many times and its still going 25 years after I got it second hand.
Chain
Worst place for me are the bolts on the stem and water bottle holders. These do not easily drain out and if you ride in the rain a lot especially as a commuter these will rust. My fix is to apply a couple of times during the year a drop of Triflow lubricant on the each bolt head. It is teflon based and does the trick for me.
Thanks Alex and crew...did I hear him say lube is better than wax for chains ?? I wax in the dry seasons , lube in the wet . chain hasn't rusted yet .
Lube protects better against rust than wax.
@@hulabulaaaHow so? If it completely covers the metal then how could it rust, unless you wait too long between rewaxing and metal is exposed. So if you wax and are done for the year and store your bike, either rewax it first, or at least apply some oil or lube until you're ready to start riding again, then wipe that down.
@@kovie9162Oil based lubes usually stay on the chain longer when riding in the wet and have some additives which help prevent rust.
According to my high school Chemistry, Aluminium Oxide is Rigid and helps protect from further corrosion...
Hydrogenated aluminium oxychloride (HAO) is your bicycle's worst nightmare. It can be caused by contact even between different aluminium alloys. It will grow so big, 3.5 times the original volume, that it will cause serious damage causing fasteners to fail. Put an aluminium fastener in a steel component and it won't take long to fail. Your High School chemistry may work in a student's lab but not in real world applications with water and salty electrolytes.
Besides which, it’s ugly.
Basically yes, Aluminium Oxide does protect the Aluminium beneath.
But like @MarkSmithSa said, it tends to expand, so it also damages any paint from underneath, and creeps further under the paint.
Generally it does not structurally harm the metal so you can sand it and reapply paint, BUT metals are weird, they tend to sacrifice themselves.
What that means is, there is sort of a nobility structure between metals, and the lesser noble metal gets sacrifised. This can occur through simply the two metals touching.
So yeah oxidised aluminium components like screws and fasteners can be dangerous, just as rusty steel ones.
To be fair, when you buy a bike, whatever the producer of said bike is, knows about this, and won't mix metals too much. Bigger problem can be, when you start messing with the screws on the bike yourself.
Correctly applying new paint, is a bit more complicated than GCN makes it out to be in this video... that is if you want it to be actually usefull and good looking. Explaining that would take a bit more time though, and if it's an expensive bike... rather leave it to a professional.
That's fantastic! Now we don't hve to worry about all of the parts on our bikes that are made of pure aluminium!
We'll have to pass this by PHD Chemist Ollie 👀
RE “Can carbon fiber rust/corrode”, yes you are correct carbon fiber itself cannot corrode. However, most carbon frames use alloy inserts for stuff like the BB threads and brake mounts. Those areas absolutely CAN rust and you do need to still keep an eye on those areas.
not only they can, surely they will rust!
Great point! Are you a big advocate for fully stripping your bike down and checking everything 👀
Evapo-rust is amazing for rustremoval.
I use Boeshield T-9 on aluminium inserts in alu, steel and carbon frames and on alu corrosion under paint, carbon etc. to prevent it from expanding further.
I use Smoove as it is a wax dripon but with a little oil for rust prevention of the chain.
As a marine engineer this is routine stuff. Galvanic corrosion caused by an electrolyte between dissimilar metals. We used to learn about this at school.
Wow! Sounds like an interesting job 👷 Does the job help when you're looking after your bike?
Thanks Alex, good solid stuff. I admit I hadn't thought of an air blower. I'll set up next to the air line next time.
I try to keep my bike dry and like the blower idea what is a good blower to buy do you have any suggestions 🤔
Alex already told us. See 2:44: an AirGro blower. I'm going to buy one - it seems like a good idea living in a very rainy country - Thailand.
@@MarkSmithSa thanks
I'm going to use a Shop-Vac instead
I use a 'leaf blower' - it seems to do the trick!
@@MarkSmithSaI have a similar blower and it's very useful well beyond this. I use it to clean the inside of my PC and various nooks and crannies at home and in my car, even my bike. I even use it as a light leaf blower when working on my car outside. The one I have is also a mini vacuum cleaner, with a mini HEPA filter!
Despite my best efforts cleaning and drying, some of my hex bolt heads have a little superficial rust building up after outdoor rides. Would I be better off treating them with a rust inhibitor or fill the bolt head with grease on a regular basis?
My bike has been sitting in the rain for almost a year. Is it already too late to prevent rusting stage or should I cover it from now on
hi GCN,
could you talk about headset expansion plug please? (although i saw you guys done a simple one before)
like things to be aware of, length/types/how to install... so on
got a 1 inch carbon fork and finally kind of found the ONE expansion plug, and it has drive my crazy, felt like i done a phd topic on it.
thanks in advance
ceramic spray helps keep a steel frame from rusting
One of the best practices after a bike wash, is to dry the chain with a micro fiber cloth, and then apply lubricant. Most chain lubricants require time to set anyways
Thanks professor alex🤗
For carbon bike with carbon components, change all bolts to Titanium, chose good sealed hubs/put extra grease to BB/headset/hub bearings. That’s it.
Sounds like some great tips 🙌Have you done this to you bike?
# ask Gcn tech
Hi all great show , can you please tell me if there is a calculation that you can do to find out the watts that we were putting out say back in the 1970’s before power meters . ie riders weight 70 kgs over 10 miles ( 16 kilometres ) with a time of 22:30 . Would great to know what sort of power we were doing on steel bikes etc .
Many thanks
RUST is a computing program, poised to compete or overtake C.
#askgcntech will Titanium rust and or corrode? Thanks for the knowledge.
It's not that complicated because unlike cars which not everyone can store inside a garage and whose under sides and parts are hard and take time to get to, clean, dry and protect, which therefore tend to rust, bikes can generally be stored inside, easily cleaned, wiped off, dried and lubricated.
So unless for some reason you have to store your bike outside, only laziness or literally not having the time and energy to do the relatively little it takes to keep rust off of a bike is why most bikes rust.
Also, a little tip. If you use muriatic acid, a common pool cleaner, DO NOT store it anywhere near your bikes and anything else that's iron or steel or it WILL cause MASSIVE rusting, even if you seal it well.
Grease is good a stopping moisture getting in but its also good a stopping moisture getting out.
4:15 calling Adam Kerin from ZFC note this .
If only I knew how to clean my bike properly. Can you do a video on that ? 😂
Fairy liquid and WD40, it’s the cleaning system of the future.👍
Aluminium causes a serious interaction with carbon fiber, too, severe galvanic corrosion!
Corrosion is your friend, hold things together.
Engineers will know 😂
Hahahaha corrosion on chains is not the one though 👀
2:25 Alex has clearly not seen Olli's latest video on how to wash your bike in 5 minutes? Who spends 10 minutes washing... ridiculous 😉
Use a stainless steel chain.
just stay away from Alec Baldwin
Expensive bicycles with materials that are corrosion-proof, such as titanium and carbon, are not left outside because of the high risk of theft. Cheap bicycles, with a low risk of theft and slightly rusty steel, can be left on the bicycle rack in front of the house. But these bikes rust there.
Why don’t they make components out of stainless steel?
Send the video to shimano
You could just be like Si and keep your bike covered in enough old lubricant and dirt that moisture can’t reach it!
Are you ever going to do some actual performance testing of the DRIVE wheels or just highlight them by including them in your videos. This is really getting annoying.
Tips for removing rust from my chain?
If it's not really much rust oil it and ride it. The rust will wear away during ride.
If the chain is extremely rusty (like on an old, abandoned bike) the chain can be gone if the rust is not just outside on the plates.
Soft wire brush.
Or toothbrush and degreaser should do it.
If the rust doesn't appear to be too bad then obtain something called Evaporust, remove the chain and soak it completely in it overnight or longer, occasionally agitating it. It's non rough on your hands so you don't need gloves. Then remove it, rinse it off thoroughly with warm water while brushing it off to get any dissolved rust and the Evaporust off, dry it off with a hair dryer or blower of some sort, and if it looks like it's still in good shape, lube and use it. If it's pitted or the links don't move freely, it's toast and you need a new chain. Save the Evaporust as it can be reused.
I've tried all kinds of rust removal methods and this is the only one that can get inside the parts that you can't get to with a brush and really get rust off, without harming the metal, which most acids and traditional rust removers can do. You could also use a weak acid like vinegar, which if the rust is really light might work well too, following the same procedures.