Rethinking Resistance // TrueKinetix TrueTrainer 8.2 Smart Trainer
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- Опубликовано: 11 июл 2024
- A look at the premium direct drive smart trainer by TrueKinetix, the TrueTrainer 8.2. With 'TrueForce' technology, TrueKinetix claim it accurately simulates the forces and resistances of outdoor cycling, providing a ride experience similar to being on a road bike. How does it hold up in the Lama Lab? Watch to find out!
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Links:
TrueKinetix TrueForce Technology Overview: tinyurl.com/bdhmmf68
TrueKinetix TrueTrainer 8.2 Official Website: tinyurl.com/mpp5trnh
Video Index
0:00 Intro
0:23 Company Background
1:00 Technical Specifications
2:43 Pricing and Availability
3:03 Virtual Cassette Setup
3:41 Virtual Shifting (Coming Soon!)
4:09 Indoor Resistance Discussion
5:42 TrueTrainer Ride Experience
6:58 Willunga Hill Climb vs Zwift Climb Portal
9:24 Data Review
13:19 Summary
15:05 Wrap Up
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gplama.com
#TrueKinetix #IndoorCycling #Cycling 
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You had a close one with that red car!!
Outdoor pedalling "feel" is very much about the small accelerations needed to counteract the changes in resistance that occur continuously throughout each pedal stroke. Ride up hill or into a strong wind and you must accelerate, with a small cadence increase, after the flat spot in each pedal stroke to maintain a constant pace. The stronger the head wind or steeper the hill, the bigger the acceleration needed to avoid slowing down. You know the feeling.
Now let's move inside. Most indoor bikes and trainers offer only constant resistance that stays fixed until the simulated terrain or wind changes. No small accelerations. No resistance changes during a pedal stroke. You just pedal against constant resistance with a flywheel partially flattening out the dead spots. Constant resistance is a big reason why indoor climbs can feel more like riding in mud rather than fighting the push-back from gravity in the real world.
The TrueKinetix trainer continuously varies resistance. It reads cadence many times a second and adjusts resistance to simulate the outdoor pedal stroke accelerations described above. This is a big deal.
very well described. I feel like outdoor riding also requires more torque, so I'm fascinated by this new trainer.
Garmin/Tacx did a lot to provide me a good "feel". The emotions I had after they cut me off from my accounts for over a year after merge was comparable to what you felt when that red car cut you off! I believe I have used very same words then!!
Jokes aside, thank you for this videa. Shall anything happen to my old-good neo after ehm, ehm "firmware update", I'll know where to look next :)
Look at you overtaking everyone up that climb!
Definitely a good area to improve. My tacx neo definitely builds different muscles over the winter and i need a period of adjustment in the spring
Interesting! This is something I think they claim they’ve improved on the Neo 3M, but that’s still unavailable here in AU.
I bought Net 2T after using Elite Direto, Elite Turbo Muin. Used Neo 2T and didn't like the feel from the beginning, actually. This spring i sold Neo 2T and bought Kickr v6. And from the first kilometers on it i feel much better overall feelings. I don't know what exactly is the reasons for it.
I tested the Truetrainer vs The Wahoo Move for a Dutch Magazine. The Truetrainer was superior in ridefeel. 250 watt on the True was like outside ‘do-able’. On the Wahoo It Felt like riding against the wind or as some mentioned ‘in the mud’. As soon as you drop some input you get punished. Not with the True. More Like riding outside. On the wahoo the hipflexors got tired from the more pulling need in the pedalstroke. The Truetrainer provides flow in the pedalstroke. Not so ‘angular’. Great feel!
Cool video Shane. Cheers
Great topical RUclips again thanks Shane - it's so awesome you bring these products to a wider audience's attention. This is very old school to say, but why do we care so much about making a different way of cycling, in a different environment, so similar to the real world? Can't we accept that they're just different?
I still ride my lemond sometimes just to be reminded of the ride feel!! Love it. My rim brake TT bike is perfect for it
Lucky enough to have 2 lemonds 🎉
From 1987 till Dec 2023 I used my CATEYE CS-1000 wind trainer . In Dec I got the NEOX 2 with $ 500 off . And 8690 KM later and level 63 on Zwift , So 37 yrs forward is alot .
I'm also glad others are looking at riding feel. My Elite Suito is a fine trainer, but I've been feeling for quite a while that it really doesn't simulate outdoor riding at all. It particularly bugs me how when I get to the bottom of the hill, my speed in sim will barely drop, but suddenly my wheel slows down to a crawl. I'm pretty sure the ideal trainer wouldn't "simulate resistance" at all, but rather just rotate your wheel at the speed it should based on the state of your simulation software with the force you provide on the pedals acting as input to the software. It would take a beefy motor that's able to update quickly, but that's the direction sim racing wheels have been moving for years.
This is spot on how tacx does inertia on its Neo also at 10,OO0 times a second.
Hey Shane, to help prevent the situation like you had with that red car pulling in front of you get some bright daytime running lights I swear by them. Those drivers are not looking for a bike they're looking for a car to see if the coast is clear and they look right through you I know because I've accidentally done it myself as a driver and saw the cyclist at the last moment but a bright flashing light gets that second look at least that's what I've experienced over the years just an FYI take care buddy and be SAFE!
Absolutely seconded. I run a Bontrager light with DRL flash, every ride since I got doored. Close calls still happen but a lot further and far between
In my experience lights etc make no difference, with the exception of a rear day runner on lo-vis days. That driver pulled straight into the bike lane, it's a bad driver.
@@twatts4436 Sometimes seat belts make no difference, but it's best to do it anyway just in case lol
I absolutely agree, since I started running a (rather bright) daytime flashing light I have definitely noticed less cars turning right in front of me.
Can you make a top 5 trainer in ridefeel?
I have a suggestion, if you setup the Tacx, Wahoo and Truetrainer in the Lama lab on 3 different bikes with same saddle we could have more accurate feedback how they compare to each other as you would be able to switch between them quickly :)
Personally, i felt the Neo2t was smoother so i sold Kickr v6, but impossible to tell on which i can put out more power. i do recall the neo2t slipping when sprinting around 1200-1300W but not on the Kickr which is quite odd as they claim a maximum resistance of 2000+ watts
I tried the TrueKinetix. When working, it really rides smooth. For longer endurace rides indoor this could be a very good trainer. No problem with that. But my first unit died within a week and also when fixed it became a problem again. I think the concept is really good. But sometimes too much of a hassle to start riding, connecting,...The product does not have the robustness compared to Tacx or Wahoo yet, certainly not for harder efforts (IMO). If they can manage this they will have a good product.I used to ride on a Tacx Neo. Then tried the truekinetix but after month trial I decided to use the Wahoo Kickr V6 and for me this is the best trainer. Use it mostly in zwift and with the virtual gears and the Wifi or BT fast connection..Real good.
Same story here. First one died in a week with slip problems. The second after an year also slip problems and an crazy self speed up motor without pedaling.😢
@@jornremi5721 same here. Speed up and spinning like crazy. I returned it because I wanted to avoid things like that after a year.
Hi @stijnb2645
Thank you for your thorough review.
We've reviewed the data and it seems that you have the first generation of the TrueTrainer 6.2.
Since then, we've made several changes to the hardware and software. If you would like to give us another chance, please contact us and we will be happy to ship you a new trainer
@@truekinetix_ Thx for answering. Like I said, I really liked the feel of the trainer. It was very smooth so certainly want to try out the trainer again but I already had my re-fund after my trial period.
Its ancient now, but my old Elite Turbo Muin (fluid-based) trainer had brilliant road-feel, and nothing I've ridden since (including TacX Neo, Kickr v6 and Stages SB20) have come even close to feeling like riding outside - for all the technical advantages of recent trainers, the ride feel has taken big steps backwards.
Same.
I had a Real Turbo Muin, and now a KickR V5. They are pretty identical.
I only have experience with a fluid trainer (elite turno) but am quite happy with it.
You really need to try a smart trainer. The difference is a game changer.
Great summery of that trainer.. when do you expect it to be available in Oz?
I think Kickr with climb meets my needs. Indoor riding for me is only utilised when the weather is woeful or recovering from injury.
I noticed you mentioned the Lemond Revolution. I use this with powerpedals currently, as I've never found smart trainer feel very good. I had bought a Tacx Neo 2T ages ago and ended up selling it to a friend, as I couldn't stand the feel of it. So would you equate this as more similar to the Lemond in feel?
I know the market for track bike trainers is insane due to the amount of watts and stuff back in the day when we had almost nothing for road cycling. So not surprising to see other companies trying to continually "improve" by providing new offerings. But I feel like the name of the game here is physical improvements that you can witness like why risers and virtual shifting is the name of the game and why something like this won't take off even if it has a supposed benefit.
And more old school thoughts: In the early 2000's, Kiwi cyclists started using the BT erg indoor trainer after Charlie Walsh (then NZ National Track team Coach) brought them across from Australia. I use to feel you could tell who had built the superior strength from the no inertia/no momentum BT erg trainer when racing on the road. Then from the BT arose the RevBox - I wonder do you have similar feelings about the BT as the RB Shane?
how would it go with / on a rocker plate?
Fine if you want it on one.
Shane. My kickr core is on it's last fumes, but with all these options out there it's hard to have some actual comparison. Do you plan on doing any up to date comparisons (sorta like the new gen vid) ?
Maybe later in the year as companies release new products as indoor season ramps up (usually late September)
How dare you not to the test the max output!!
Still love my Elite TurboMuin direct drive fluid trainer. Nothing smart about it and you can ditch the misuro b+ faff. But still the smoothest roadfeel I've come across in my turbo adventures. So much so I recently bought another - one of the last made - after I got rid of my first one when I got a Kickr v4.
Did I see it wrong or was there some rust showing on HDMI plug already? Putting them right underneath the bike might catch some sweat?
Yeah, that was something that caught my eye too. Also, looking at the angle of the plug it looks optimised for drips will roll into the socket connection. 😮
I still don't understand why Zwift doesn't just go ahead and take over Virtual Shifting.. they control pretty much every aspect of trainer difficulty and climbing gradients.. and resistance changes. Maybe my thinking about how it all works is wrong. Great Video! Looking forward to the Virtual Shifting parts.
Zwift actually supports virtual shifting on some newer wahoo trainers
Does it feel less like riding through a swamp going uphill on the small ring compared to other trainers?
The resistance should probably be user-configurable as I find my Kickr Core V5 feels too heavy with the resistance in Zwift for any given gear compared to in real life, but I can understand a couple of reasons why this won't happen. I'll be surprised if TrueKinetix gets the balance (with air and rolling resistance) right for everyone.
LeMond replacement do you reckon?
If I have a Lemond, and pretty much most important is the ride feel, would a Neo or Kickr be a disappointing downgrade?
The Wahoo Kickr has a very weird feel but i've bodged it to feel better. I find when calibrated the flywheel feels like 1kg and tends to feel 20% harder than outdoors. if i manually slow the flywheel during calibration then i get a much better road feel and is pretty close to outdoor efforts.
Then the wattage is not correct. Reading from the trainer is to high in this case
@@rallyden7684 yeah wattage is off. Reads over at low speeds and under at high speeds but I get a much better workout. Weirdly even then the power levels are still much lower than what I can manage outside on the same bike.
How does this one differ from their more budget friendley options 4.2 and 6.2? Other than higher resistance and incline? And speaking of Eurobike. I hope we get to see new road pedals from Favero with a podless design..
I believe the motor resistance unit is the same across the three models. The difference being the additional features. They're briefly shown in the video. More details over on the TK website. If there's any news on the Favero front, I'll cover it on here right away!
I think the Kickr with 5+kg flyweel weight still isn't enough. Resulting in indoor being more tough than outdoor. If this is "solved" with this trainer, I would be willing to pay double... I find it frustrating because it impacts training due to power zones potentially being incorrect or at least different between in and outdoors...
Shane, are U planning to make review about Decathlon smart bike ? It's only 1300 eur
I can’t get a hold of their products. They offered to send all trainers over for review, then stopped replying to emails. 🤷🏻♂️
I'm intrested too
This is extremely interesting to me, as I have a Stages SB20 as a replacement for cycling outdoors because of extreme brain fatigue trying to ride on a bicycle outside caused by a severe traumatic brain injury.
The SB20 is not not the same as riding outside.
So would a TrueBike be a better alternative to my Stages SB20 experience?
Plus, do you think I need to start panicking about the Stages having now closed there doors permanently?
I appreciate your feedback.
The SB20 does have a MASSIVE flywheel but the belt drive does deaden the feeling a little. The gear changes on it also feel a little sluggish with the buttons they use. Those things aside, it's still a pretty good workout. Would the TrueBike be better? You'll have to step on one and determine that one yourself.
As for Stages going out of business - The risk is that the configuration app will stop working at some point. Without that you're locked into whatever virtual gearing configuration it has AND crank length (which need to be set in the app for the power to read correctly).
Hi@@gplama thanks.
For myself it’s more about the feel and work out second.
I keep leaving my Stages in the corner and go for a walk/run instead because I don’t enjoy the feeling of riding it.
@@gplama I also have a horrible feeling that crank length is resetting (On the SB20) if you unplug the bike from the mains, as I get uplifted power numbers by a set % compared to my Assioma's (reset setting the length in the app seems to bring them back in line..) its very odd. So yeah we need the App for the life of the bike...
I come from a Tacx neo 2T to a truekinetix true trainer , this was the first edition , what I found that could be better is more clearance for the axle removal and also for the rear derailleur, if it is fit with a 34 cassette then the cage will hit the unit , further I sometimes have problems with the connection, while I am doing a workout sometimes the connection fails and the wattage goes up , because the trainer resets it self to gradient and the gear you ride in , ending up with lots of watts to get your crank spninning. Also sometime the trainer is making a lot of noise , 5 minutes later it is gone , no idea why this is happening...expected more of this trainer because of the high price
Which model TrueTrainer?
@@gplama I have their first truetrainer the 6.2
@@gplama they also had the 4.2 , but this one was without the virtual gears.
That is a great screen of data GPLama has on the right of the real life video. What hardware does he use to see that? It's not a garmin!
That’s data from an Edge 1040 and 840 combined in post edit. I was using two bike computers on that climb outside.
No specific comment on the massive price?
It’s up there for sure, but not setting any new high watermarks. Quick conversion shows it’s still well under the Neo 3M here (but both are unavailable in AU).
does hot summer heat affect the stages pm at under 200 watts?
Are you asking about the indoor trainer or a road bike?
@@derekbiggerstaff just crank arm
Is this working with the zwift cog and frame?
This doesn't support Zwift Protocol (required for virtual shifting in Zwift) as yet.
I still don’t think any trainer has a large enough flywheel. The rowing machines at the gym have far more realistic feel due to their massive flywheels.
Couldn't agree more.
I could have bought a 14KG flywheel for my Kurt Kinetic Road Machine. That would make it the heaviest trainer available for home use.
I've got one of those trainers at home (concept 2), the flywheel is like 13pounds, roughly the same as a Kickr Core. Those rowing machines generate resistance through the fan blades attached to the flywheel.
@@rhenic They do have blades but they also have large flywheels. If you zero the resistance they spin for quite a while. I think large flywheel mass plus variable electronic resistance is the closest feel to a bike outdoors. The flywheel mass gets you through the dead spot in your pedaling stroke, whereas the constant resistance from low mass flywheel trainers feels totally unnatural.
StagesBike SB20 has a 50lbs flywheel, it’s really good. No idea if you can still buy one or get support though…
You cant do 2500+ watts? 😮 hehe
Who in fact has "upgraded" doesn't indicate who it's really providing any benefits for. I would bet they're mostly getting wealthy chronic early adopters. I'm pretty serious and I don't see how I could justify that cost. I don't ride indoors to scratch my cycling itch. I do it to get a workout. The feel of the rear wheel spinning just isn't what I care about when cycling outdoors. It's all the things you will never get indoors, or at least not until we have 100% realistic VR.
It's a bit weird naming it after another trainer company (TruTrainer). That's like someone creating a new trainer called the "Wahoo" 🤨
Way out of my price range. Interesting concepts that I hope other trainers pick up on.
Software wise the TT is horrible over Tacx. If you have structured trainings from Garmin or TriDot, you cannot simply transfer to TT which is a no go for me. Also very loud compared to Tacx Neo. They will have to work on both
What's giving you that 360 degree real time torque graph? 🤔
Rotor 2INPower SL power meter.
@@gplama Thanks. These days I'm really wishing I had true independent L/R power measurement and torque vector analysis. Asymmetry is a b!tch.
What’s going to happen if you have a Kickr Climb…..hack???
Hyundai driver's eyes must be painted on, what a tool.
Price is ridic...
1700 Pounds? lol. Thanks but no thanks.
1432 is my direct EU to GBP conversion. What are the import taxes?
@@gplama 1699£ on their website
20% plus handling fees, so Jeff's rounding down a bit. 😮
(£1432 * 1.2 = £1720)
price is FAR TOO HIGH
Much toooooooo loud!!!!!
Neo is best!
Or you could go outside on a real bike
Yes, and you could have a real conversation, not through TCP/IP, but here you are :>