Sonic's Biggest Problem and how to fix it
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- Опубликовано: 8 сен 2024
- There's incredible talent working on Sonic that needs to be elevated in order to fix the franchise's biggest issue.
#SonicTheHedgehog #Sonic #SonicXShadowGenerations #ShadowGenerations
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Referenced videos:
The "Problem" with IDW Sonic: • The "Problem" with IDW...
PROJECT UPDATE - Sonic Frontiers Anime Opening: • PROJECT UPDATE - Sonic...
Sonic Vs The Mirage Express (TMOSTH Animation): • Sonic Vs The Mirage Ex...
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Wikipedia:
Sonic the Hedgehog[a] is a video game series and media franchise created by the Japanese developers Yuji Naka, Naoto Ohshima, and Hirokazu Yasuhara for Sega. The franchise follows Sonic, an anthropomorphic blue hedgehog who battles the evil Doctor Eggman, a mad scientist. The main Sonic the Hedgehog games are platformers mostly developed by Sonic Team; other games, developed by various studios, include spin-offs in the racing, fighting, party and sports genres. The franchise also incorporates printed media, animations, feature films, and merchandise.
Naka, Ohshima, and Yasuhara developed the first Sonic game, released in 1991 for the Sega Genesis, to provide Sega with a mascot to compete with Nintendo's Mario. Its success helped Sega become one of the leading video game companies during the fourth generation of video game consoles in the early 1990s. Sega Technical Institute developed the next three Sonic games, plus the spin-off Sonic Spinball (1993). A number of Sonic games were also developed for Sega's 8-bit consoles, the Master System and Game Gear. After a hiatus during the unsuccessful Saturn era, the first major 3D Sonic game, Sonic Adventure, was released in 1998 for the Dreamcast. Sega exited the console market and shifted to third-party development in 2001, continuing the series on Nintendo, Xbox, and PlayStation systems. Takashi Iizuka has been the series' producer since 2010.
While Sonic games often have unique game mechanics and stories, they feature recurring elements such as the ring-based health system, level locales, and fast-paced gameplay. Games typically feature Sonic setting out to stop Eggman's schemes for world domination, and the player navigates levels that include springs, slopes, bottomless pits, and vertical loops. Later games added a large cast of characters; some, such as Miles "Tails" Prower, Knuckles the Echidna, and Shadow the Hedgehog, have starred in spin-offs. The franchise has crossed over with other video game franchises in games such as Mario & Sonic, Sega All-Stars, and Super Smash Bros. Outside of video games, Sonic includes comic books published by Archie Comics, Fleetway Publications, and IDW Publishing; animated series such as The Adventures of Sonic the Hedgehog (1993), Sonic X (2003-2006), and Sonic Prime (2022-2024); a live-action film series distributed by Paramount Pictures; and toys including Lego construction sets.
Sonic the Hedgehog is Sega's flagship franchise and one of the bestselling video game franchises, selling over 140 million units by 2016 and grossing over $5 billion as of 2014. Series sales and free-to-play mobile game downloads totaled 1.6 billion as of 2023. The Genesis Sonic games have been described as representative of the culture of the 1990s and listed among the greatest of all time. Although later games, notably the 2006 game, received poorer reviews, Sonic is influential in the video game industry and is frequently referenced in popular culture. The franchise is known for its fandom that produces unofficial media, such as fan art and fangames.
Link to intro music: • Micheal Jackson x Brun...
For some reason I mispronounced a tonne of words in this recording. I think I was just tired. I'll have to time stamp them at some stage with corrections. 😂
What's a tonne 🤔
@@jordanromesburg6819 ton in French.
You have me dead 😂
If the problems in the Sonic franchise are so obvious that anyone on the internet can point it out, then chances are Sega doesnt care.
For example, anyone can point out the problems with Sonic 1 genesis (GBA.) If problems and solutions are so obvious that anyone can point it out... then Sega does not care
This is great but you never once explained what a “Sonic” is.
You know that restaurant with the chili dogs?
It’s a fancy word for anything that goes super fast.
What the FUCK is a Sonic!?
@@hydrocityshark Sonic is just pure dogshit. A pathetic attempt at copying the legendary Mickey Mouse. And his gloves? A wannabe replica. If you tried to bring Sonic into Disney's realm, you would be arrested for imitating the greatest character of all time. Mickey Mouse reigns supreme. Sonic? Just a poser.
@@KaleBennett Sonic is just pure dogshit. A pathetic attempt at copying the legendary Mickey Mouse. And his gloves? A wannabe replica. If you tried to bring Sonic into Disney's realm, you would be arrested for imitating the greatest character of all time. Mickey Mouse reigns supreme. Sonic? Just a poser.
I feel like Sonic has always been an experimental series, but I think Sega's attempts to streamline everything doesn't address the biggest problem with the franchise. I don't think the problem is an inconsistent image, but lackluster execution of those images.
Mario has a million different canons, artstyles, and even gameplay genres with its abundance of spinoffs, but he's still beloved because the mainline stuff is high quality and the spinoff media often ranged from beloved to servicable. It was only in the early 2010's where people started pointing out the flaws in the franchise, not just because the different brands were being streamlined into the well-known iconography, but because the products were a noticably lower quality, feeling less ambitious and more simplistic.
I think a similar case can be made with Sonic. The next Sonic game could be a lighthearted adventure, a mature drama, a romcom, or any other genre, but if the core product isn't good enough to justify the decision, then why was the decision made in the first place?
I wish Sega would stop prioritizing brand consistency and start prioritizing brand quality. Don't limit what Sonic is capable of, just give Sonic the time and ability to reach his full potential. Don't limit the comics or cartoons to a certain template, just find the right people to take full advantage of whatever concepts they come up with. Give Sonic Team and other developers the time to decide and refine their vision, rather than spending a majority of the development time in the planning phases.
I don't think the key to Sonic's success is deciding the right template for him, but deciding the best execution for whatever template you give him. You and I have drastically different ideas for what we want out of Sonic: You like a cartoony cel-shaded look whereas I like a realistic Pixar look. You like 2D and 3D staying apart whereas I like them being merged. This difference in opinion means there will never be a definitive Sonic style, or at least one that can unanimously be agreed upon, but if Sonic could not only do both, but do a phenomenal job at both, then we could both have two high quality games, but with different opinions on our favorite. I'd rather than an inconsistent aesthetic with a consistent quality, over a consistent aesthetic with an inconsistent quality.
Genius essay.
Because quality level designers are expensive. Sega does not like expensive things. Sega does not even like expensive voice actors, thats why the Sonic voice cast changed
@@VanessaWong-yi5pe I’d imagine Roger Craig would charge more than Jason or Ryan…
@@VanessaWong-yi5pe no Wonder why Nintendo always was better succefull to me at least. ,
Sega never learns ....
@@Darkparadox64 but Sega does one thing that Nintendon't: Allow fans to make content likes music osts and fangames.
The franchise has been a downward spiral ever since Sonic and the Big Cheese
Yeah, if only the giant chao was implemented better.
Ur pfp made me think there was a spec on my phone screen
Cell shaded sonic, a coherent art style with the animation quality of dream team ALL put in a frontiers successor sounds too good to be true. I hope that one day we can get something like that.
HI-FI Rush is a good example of blending 2D and 3D aesthetics together.
It SURE IS! Love Hi-Fi Rush! I opted to go for Persona 5 as my example in this video though as it's a Sega property so it proves that they can apply that to Sonic if they want to WHICH THEY SHOULD.
A perfect universe in my head SEGA would buy the Studio before Microsoft closed it😢
Ever played Dragon Ball FighterZ
@@ChannelPupyeah, no. Ian had said there is no Sonic Frontiers comic adaptation in the works. Whenever the comic catches up to the time period of Frontiers. The comic will skip it.
I understand them not wanting to bring Archie back, because unlike live-action Spider-Man, Archie Sonic and Actual Sonic share the same design, so it's harder to differentiate the two.
I mean, they could just change Archie Sonic's design and call it a day. Just say that he wanted to try something new
Game Sonic and X Sonic share almost designs too, the reason is Sega for whatever reason just gatekeeps everything.
"But these versions are so different from the games" Yeah, because fans totally wouldn't whine from Sega repeating the exact same stories from the games.
At the same time, there are plenty of Peters who are similar and share the same red and blue suit design and it’s well understood that these versions are in different parts of the Spider-verse. If the comic establishes this like Pup recommends, there wouldn’t be a problem.
@@hydrocityshark - But the artstyle is massively different.
Not only that, but each Spider-Man has their own title too, amazing, spectacular, ultimate and so on.
@@ashesGeek - Back when Sonic X was airing Archie was also being made.
Now neither X nor Archie exists anymore, so what's your point?
So Sonic is suffering the whole Pokémon deal. Highly doubt that's ever gonna die off.
The Pokemon thing is: you know you are gonna buy the game anyway even if it sucks.
@@VanessaWong-yi5peYou could say the same with Sonic
@@VanessaWong-yi5pe The same thing that happens with sonic, they see that the game is broken or leaves much to be desired and still buy it, some tell you that it is the best game 20/10 if you don't like it you are a hater (the conformism of the community) or the mythical phrase of the fandom of pokemon that is now emerging in the fandom of sonic: a new hope or way for the franchise, so that then in the next game they are disappointed.
Well at least the games and the TV series are separate so they both do their own thing even if they have some parallel events
@@crestofhonor2349you sure about that? 😋
The real issue is that everyone wants something different from the franchise
For example in this video it explains how archie sonic was the best because it was more emotional but i know for a fact that there are people who hate that interpretation of Sonic or really any interpretation that doesnt come purely from the games and more specifically from the japanese version of the games
People like pariah695 for example preach this idea that american Sonic is not the real Sonic and the best version of sonic is not the archie one but the one wrote from 1998 to 2009 by Shiro Maekawa
This idea that the stories need to be more like archie then goes against a good chunk of the fanbase that thing like that and dont want any more american influences than the necesary ones
Not like they are in the right of course but it goes to show how divides the fanbase is on any topic
Sonic is just pure dogshit. A pathetic attempt at copying the legendary Mickey Mouse. And his gloves? A wannabe replica. If you tried to bring Sonic into Disney's realm, you would be arrested for imitating the greatest character of all time. Mickey Mouse reigns supreme. Sonic? Just a poser.
Agree
Especially if you're a big fan of the Maekawa Adventure/4Kids era of stories from the games; where the character development is a relatively less explicit and more subtle
I feel the only folks that'd be for the type of change Pup presents are folks already satisfied with IDW and were huge Archie/SatAm fans (at least in Pup and GameApologist case); Which is a group already being catered to anyway, so it defeats the purpose to propose as a way to unify the franchise.
That's not really an issue at all, there are many franchises like Ninja Turtles or Transformers that have a ton of completely different media with different tone making people prefer particular aspect of the franchise. People complaining about what they want franchise to be is normal in that case.
The real problem is Sega of Japan doesn't respect the history of the franchise and wants everybody to believe there were no comics or cartoons in the 90's except Sonic Ova(even though they don't remember about it either due to legal issues)
@@ashesGeek i mean most of all of that media is in legal limbo or causes more problems that they would like (Ken Penders is only the most popular case but even Sonic X is in a weird legal limbo licensing wise, and even the creator of Mamouth Mogul has threatened to lawyer up)
Also again there are plenty of people who dislike or don't want elements from those early cartoons to appear and there are people who already feel like this side of the pond is given too much power (just look again at people like pariah who hates the very idea that Ian Flynn is now the main writer for the games)
Comparisons with other franchises are also i believe not accurate not all franchises aim for the same thing and having a more unified franchise can have a lot of positives the issue is that everyone has their own idea of what the perfect "X" franchise looks like and it's imposible to catter to everyone
Also while i love the cómics there are many issues with trying to make them to interconnected to the plot of the games, mainly that people can get confused if they need to read the cómics to understand the motivations of the villains in the games or viceversa
I think it is better if there is a level of separation between both there are ways in which you can write interesting stories for the cómics or the games that exploit and use the advantages of each medium
@carso1500 "Also there are plenty of people who dislike or don't want elements" I don't give a shit. TMNT fans, even one of Turtles creator Peter Laird always mocked Venus de Milo and didn't want 87 characters combine with Mirage ones yet Venus has eventually returned and stuff like 2012 show and IDW comics mix up all the characters like it's cooking something new.
Hell, Silver was a punching bag for Sonic fans for a long time yet he's still in the games and comics.
That alone debunks the whole "spin-off characters and game characters can't work together in a story" argument that people still throw up just because they just don't admit for some reason they don't like the characters.
But the thing is, Flynn still isn't the main writer of the games, Japanese are being way too of a control freaks and it's hard to believe they would even bother to take ideas from him. What a surprise considering they don't really give credit to Sonic Movies for popularizing the franchise again and bringing a lot more money than most of their games combined.
My point still stands, Sega doesn't respect Sonic's history and therefore its fans. The only thing that keeps them from being total morons and assholes is not banning every fan project like Nintendo does.
You might be on to something Channel Pup, I really hope Sonic gets even better, but then again, that's what I've been hoping for 13 years
It always has
@@reggielacey2235 I mean, yeah, perception of the brand has never been better, and I enjoy the comics and how Sega is bringing talented fans on board.
I just want it to reach the heights that I know that it's capable of reaching.
I absolutely want the Archie characters back, they already proven that Sonic exists within a multiverse. Imagine if Scourge, an evil Sonic from another reality, could have shown up in Sonic Prime or the Freedom Fighters were in Sonic Forces.
It's funny with the whole thing with pender and the characters that he owns, because if Sega really cared they could probably get them back or even buy them. Get the most prominent ones back like scourge, Prince Elias, Sonic's parents, and don't even bother with all the other background characters Ken owns. The real obstacle is Sega (a big corporation) spending money to get them back.
@endosaurus1404 And still, Sega pretty much owns The Freedom Fighters yet they act like they completely can't do anything(or simply, they don't give a shit) with any of these characters.
If any other franchise is criticized for nostalgia pandering nowadays then Sega of Japan is completely 360° opposite of that. They don't bother to make anniversary editions of the media they own.
No
I don't want the Archie characters back. Archie's reboot messed them up, so if they came back in the games, they'd be worse. All I want is Archie re-released, and maybe to get some merchandise for collectors of the Archie characters. Archie Sonic is my favorite story ever, so I don't want its characters back if they'd be ruined.
Another problem is that SEGA apparently doesn’t want Sonic interacting with other iterations of himself (minus Classic Sonic). It’s the reason why “Boom” Sonic was left out of the “Worlds Unite” crossover and why “Prime” doesn’t involve any other incarnations of Sonic.
It's kinda sad, considering that sonic was made to be the risky mario. The bugs bunny to mickey mouse. Now he is as coperate as Mario
Sonic's situation nowadays is even worse than Mario. At least Nintendo consistently makes good Mario games, they have courage to experiment with genres and mechanics and they eventually bring characters like Pauline back.
@@ashesGeekTell me about it! It's funny how people are always complaining about Mario games, calling them "stale" or "predictable", and yet they're never unwilling to experiment or try new things when they need to. And yet people still insist that in order for the Sonic series to be better, it needs to emulate Mario. The fact that Sonic was different to Mario is what made him stand out in the first place, so how people are coming to this conclusion I'll never know.
@bowmaj8666 I mean if Sega wants the franchise to be consistently good they need to use Nintendo's strategy of doing consistently good games instead of solely relying on trends. Mario games work because despite them being quite different in overall style like, say Paper Mario and Mario Odyssey, they still have a ton of fun features and serve their purpose: bring fun to the player.
Sonic games succeed in that quite rarely and with Sega playing it safe they either won't try anything experimental or that something experimental will turn out to be dogshit due to Sega's CEOs corporate incompetence specifically to this property(Yakuza and Persona don't suffer from this)
@@ashesGeek I think the real issue though is that Sonic can do the same things as Mario, but get a completely different reaction from the public.
For example, Nintendo can make multiple spin off titles like Mario Kart and the sports games and get universal praise for it. Yet when was the last time you ever heard a hardcore Mario fan whine "What is this? Why is Mario in a Kart? He's got Yoshi, he's got power ups that can make him fly; he doesn't need a kart! Why is he playing Tennis Doubles with Bowser? Um, hello! They're arch enemies! Bowser should be trying to stomp him flat! None of this makes any sense at all!"
With the Sonic fan base though, this unfortunately is the norm! Sega have to lightly step into mediocrity to appease fans, while Nintendo are leaping miles into greatness. Nintendo has the sense to not allow silly fan complaints and demands ultimately dictate what their franchise can and can't be. They're also not setting unnecessary limitations on their games for this either. In Super Mario Bros Wonder, they could bring a popular character like Daisy into a mainstream game as a playable character no problem. Meanwhile, fans want to see Shadow in a traditional 2D Sonic game, but Sega have basically shot themselves in the foot by bringing back Sonic's older design as an entirely separate entity and saying "only characters in this black eyed art style can be in these kinds of games from now on!" It's ridiculous!
@@ashesGeek With Yakuza, things are pretty self-contained. You get what you get in the title alone. As for Persona, since both niche franchises that focus on humans (and real-life issues) in a metropolitan setting, and debuted around the sixth generation of gaming, it's very unlikely that they'll jump the shark or get super experimental the same way Sonic has in '92-'94 alone, following the 3D era.
If I may be so bold....because Archie went in such a drastic direction and was more or less a product of its time.....they wouldn't be a natural fit.
I'd argue that sometimes it is best to "let the dead rest", in this case. Yeah, they could always release collections of Archie comics in order to raise awareness....but considering the minefield of copyright that book eventually became because of Archie themselves....are we REALLY surprised they wouldn't dare touching it again?
While I agree with most of the points in this video...I feel as though Archie, particularly for the fans of it....they would rather the brand not change at all and stick to what they know forever. To revive that universe now would set the expectations far too high.
Yeah I kind of lean towards this opinion myself.
Here's the thing... I'd understand this point of 'letting the dead rest' if there weren't thousands of people, particularly SoJ purists and the most rabid sects of SonAmy shippers, rubbing the cancellation of the Archie comics in our collective faces, telling us how glad they are that the comics are finished, that we're wrong for ever liking them, and that it was never any good. If this idea of 'letting the dead rest' didn't come prepackaged with a demand to shut up whenever we want to talk about it because 'we had our time in the sun', and that IDW is 'better in every way'.
And especially if this notion of 'letting the dead rest' applied to more than just the Archie fans. Where is this notion when people bring up the Archie comics just to throw spite at them and the fans? Why do they get a pass? Because they're 'true fans'? Because they 'follow the sacred timeline'?
Because to me, this demand to just 'let the dead rest' seems less like an effort to get us to move on and more an attempt to shame us into submission whenever we want a long-spanning part of Sonic's history to be recognized. Like it's not enough for us to suffer - we have to suffer in silence.
@@morganr9825 rest assured, I am neither of these people. The only reason I say it's best to let the dead rest is because it seems that SEGA doesn't have an interest in it. At least for now. What they decide to do is up to them as I can't control it.
On the note of those people, they aren't helping. If anything, it is rubbing salt in already wide open wounds. It's uncalled for and toxic. They have no business doing what they do. But you aren't wrong for liking it. There is no right or wrong way to write a canon...but when head canon pollutes your judgment .... everything that runs contrary to it is wrong. However this in and of itself is tunnel vision
@@cyberprime9355yes the people who throw salt on the wound and bully those for like the western stuff is pretty much why we’re in this sensitive age, but that’s neither here nor there.
We are not wrong for liking the Archie and/or SatAM stuff, and as long as fans keep those alive, and as long as Sega still owns at least the SatAM stuff (there’s a reason why some people argue that Ken Penders own SatAM characters) then there’s hope they’ll return.
Sure it’s a slim chance, but the hope is there. Maybe not tomorrow, next week, next month, next year or so on, but someday. It just depends on management change.
I will say, I don’t particularly care about the freedom fighters and even I think they should have their books re-released.
I prefer the characters in the actual games as that’s just my cup of tea, but even I think it’s a dumb business decision to do absolutely nothing with characters you own.
Even if they don’t do anything with them (which I do have to say they could totally just say the freedom fighters are from another universe and have them pop up every once in a while in interdimensional crossovers without affecting the sacred timeline) they should at least re-release the old Archie stuff for the sake of financial gain
Sega is a business. Not the best business, but they only care about fast money. Sega rereleasing Archie books is as likely as Sega paying for Sonic 3's music licenses fees.
Sega does not want to do that. If Archie needs has loyalty fees that need to be paid to Ken Penders Sega won't do it.
What is being requested would require a situation similar to Sonic Mania where fans forcibly pitch an idea to Sega and prove it can make money.
Thats how Sega operates.
Also just to protect myself from Archie and SATAM purists, I don’t dislike the freedom fighters. I think they are a perfectly good group. It is just not my personal preferred Sonic cast.
11:42
I have absolutely nothing against these two as people, but please god no
I’m so tired of hearing this exact sentiment over and over, can we just get new fresh blood please
Yes its pretty annoying how many of these creators and fans a like seem to hard focus in on just these 2.
@Agee_IenteeI genuinely think Final Horizon kinda killed Frontiers as a whole. It is genuinely pretty horrendous in multiple ways and storywise one can't even ignore it because anything we see or learn retroactively applies to the maingame story content.
I don't know how to even recommend the game to people now. "yeah, play the game. But ignore more than 1/5th of its total content, which includes the presumed canon ending, because it sucks."
I like them as well but I do agree that the entirety of the franchise shouldn't be spearheaded by the same one or two people. Letting new people with different ideas express themselves is how you get good conversations at the boardroom.
@@corruptedteka It doesn't help that these 2 alone also bring in there own at times controversial fan views on certain characters (like with these 2 is there no one in the room to remind them that Silver is suppose to be overly serious when he locks in on a goal) most explosively seen with Ian's take on Sonic's morals in the IDW Sonic comics 50th issue.
@@rynobehnke8289 A lot of current concepts are pretty weird and I am not even sure who has what percentage on it between the gamedirectors, Ian, Sega and Iizuka.
Stuff like "all games gotta be canon even if it makes no sense"(Spinball, lmao) and "Silver's future never changes and he just randomly jumps into time portals that open when he is needed"(Which is just dumb and contradicts who and what he is on the core)
Man, being a fan of this series long-term is a weird experience to see. One decade you hear all these talks about how "sonic shouldn't be doing this or that", in the next decade its all like "actually maybe we should bring that stuff back because we kind of got rid of some of the good stuff that came with it too", and it kinda just happens over and over again.
. Sonic is just pure dogshit. A pathetic attempt at copying the legendary Mickey Mouse. And his gloves? A wannabe replica. If you tried to bring Sonic into Disney's realm, you would be arrested for imitating the greatest character of all time. Mickey Mouse reigns supreme. Sonic? Just a poser.
Honestly, that's exactly the reason that the series is in the state that it's in. Practically every time fans start whining about something, Sega responds and changes it thinking that fans will like it, only to have another set of fans, or sadly even the very same fans, to start saying "Oh but everything was PERFECT the way it was! Why did you change it? CHANGE IT BACK!" I truly wonder how many people who work on these games have received concussions from violently banging their heads against their computers because of this crap!
Ok Frontiers does not look as bad as you say, could it be better sure but people talk as if it's visuals are bubsy 3d levels of bad. There's so much worse looking games out there people, and while I have not been shy about laying into Sega's blunders. People ALSO need to acknowledge that right now Sega really IS trying to step up their game with Sonic too. Actually being respectful to the charachters, not rushing release dates to meet an anniversary, hiring a Sonic comic writer, acknowledging fan critiques, and trying to fix mistakes. All this is stuff Sega would never have done before 2020, if people remain pessismistic now at a time when Sega is actively putting in the effort we really will end up losing Sonic and I don't want that to happen.
That's not to say their perfect now and they should definetly keep trying to push themselves with each new release. My point is that keeping an open mind right now is crucial, I do see cracks in things they've released but I also see all the good too and I've enjoyed everything they've put out since Frontiers too. Hell I really want to play Dream Team and their stubbornly keeping that on mobile devices. And then Sonic X shadow Generations looks like such a needed return to form for Shadow, even Kirk Thorton sounds so much better than in anything previously.
I do like alot of your ideas for how to keep things rolling the cel shaded look especially is something that can benefit Sonic greatly. I just want people to make sure their being fair to Sega now and realize that things are different compared to the 2010's, and I lived through all that too trust me I get it. I was hating that era so much I wanted Sega to lose the rights to Sonic, but the movies and then Frontiers got me back into the series by genuinely addressing the things I was so frustrated about. Not only that but I noticed right away the behavior of Sega was vastly different after the movies. Frontiers did'nt need to be perfect for me it just needed to be good and I'm so happy I can say that about a Sonic game now and not just that one as I explained.
Sonic is just pure dogshit. A pathetic attempt at copying the legendary Mickey Mouse. And his gloves? A wannabe replica. If you tried to bring Sonic into Disney's realm, you would be arrested for imitating the greatest character of all time. Mickey Mouse reigns supreme. Sonic? Just a poser.
Besides that realistic texture lightning are high quality!! It has a better quality than cell shading
Sega need to improve a bit characters models because they need to be more expressive but actually they give new models to sonic and shadow in new generations promos so maybe finnaly they learn on mistakes and also they need to change the restrictions because we will forever end on grumpy and edgy Shadow without any friends.
There's an issue with that logic...i mean personally i don't have any problem with the renders they look fine to me the problem is how can they look worse and worse if they're remain the exact same look!? This doesn't make any sense here.
@@user-vt6dd4kz5tI was writing this comment on fast and it was having some mistakes so sorry about it . Models aren't bad in games only on some promos I know that lots of people is now fine with how they look but they at some point need to improve them a bit
@@TB-fe4up yeah I agree..on a little changes would be enough there's no need for a drastic changes infact I think they already did the proportion renders for modern sonic and classic sonic from sonic X shadow generations is really looking better so they are definitely making some improvement here and there.
I must admit, I find it strange to see people arguing for Flynn to be given creative control over the story direction of the franchise or just allowed to do what he wants, because, as an Archie fan who fell out of love with the book in the waning days of the preboot, Frontiers is pretty much exactly what I was expecting from him in terms of story.
Everyone talks too much, Eggman's characterisation is a mess, the emotional beats ring increasingly hollow because these are brand mascots and not characters (something Flynn used to mask by making 80% of the core cast characters that SEGA didn't care about but can't anymore), and it's packed with references.
Archie's weird mix of brand mascot SEGA characters and dynamic SatAM characters was one of its biggest strengths. Flynn not being allowed to drift too far from SEGA's vision kept things stable and consistent, while the SatAM characters were.... well, actual characters with emotional depth that allowed the book to have compelling stories and stakes. And as soon as he decided he needed to take one of those groups out of the picture, it all went to shit. Flynn decided to tell an emotionally harrowing story about the heroes having the worst day ever, with three protagonists who can't emote! Who can't feel! Who aren't allowed to be more than kinda mopey that their friends are dropping like flies! They lose three of their friends, one of them is now the brainwashed slave of their enemy, and an evil wizard just took over their home... and Sonic is back to grinning like an idiot five issues later, despite nothing about their situation improving. If even one of the other FF were around to actually have an emotion about what's going on, it would've improved the story a thousandfold. But nope, Ant's in a coma (originally meant to have died), Nicole's in an angst-coma, Rotor is mainly concerned with the wizard and drops out of the plot, and Bunnie's off getting turned back into a cyborg by her Lost Causer uncle, never to be seen again before the end of the universe. And none of that was SEGA's fault, he made it clear that he _chose_ that path.
Flynn isn't some creative genius who is shackled by SEGA. They've certainly hindered him in the past, but simultaneously they've been known to let him do what he wants when someone should've told him "No." He's a lore guy who does his best work when someone else has already built an extensive world for him to play around with. Like, ever notice that all of the Archie characters that people like to talk about and make videos about and write fanfic about disappeared with the reboot? Finitevus, Shard, Scourge, Mogul, etc? Yeah that's because Flynn didn't make them. He iterated on them and came up with interesting ideas for what could be done with those characters (some moreso than others, give me a thousand of Finitevus before a single Scourge), but they already existed before him.
Devils advocate here: Some fans are making the push that Sonic has become stale and isn't evolving, at a time where Sega is spending millions to consolidate the brand with Super Sonic Team and their new lore squad of multinational writers to establish what Sonic's world actually is- for the sake of their new decade long game release plan and supplementary material like the comics and TV shows. Yes, right now it feels like nothing much is 'happening' to move Sonic's world forward, but I strongly believe this is because this massive overhaul hasn't come into effect and likely won't until the next mainline game is released. Remember, we're about to be introduced to what Humans in the Sonic world canonically look like (that's why IDW hasn't been able to depict them even in places where humans should live) and it's that kind of holding pattern that means writers and artists aren't able to develop the world more until "safe to do so". I'd argue from the launch of Frontiers til now has been the waiting period for what Sonic is going to be in this new phase.
Sonic is just pure dogshit. A pathetic attempt at copying the legendary Mickey Mouse. And his gloves? A wannabe replica. If you tried to bring Sonic into Disney's realm, you would be arrested for imitating the greatest character of all time. Mickey Mouse reigns supreme. Sonic? Just a poser.
When you make everything "canon" you lose the flexibility the IP has.
Yeah, it's a mess right now
what is also underrated in the art direction of Sonic is the Sonic Channel art that is used for promotional purposes.... when like.... THAT'S WHAT THE GAMES SHOULD LOOK LIKE AS WELL!!!
Sonic is just pure dogshit. A pathetic attempt at copying the legendary Mickey Mouse. And his gloves? A wannabe replica. If you tried to bring Sonic into Disney's realm, you would be arrested for imitating the greatest character of all time. Mickey Mouse reigns supreme. Sonic? Just a poser.
Karasuno's art is like angels' feathers.
I would actually argue people would get confused with Archie. You see people every day who thinks that the Dragon Ball Manga and Anime are the same thing.
Sonic is just pure dogshit. A pathetic attempt at copying the legendary Mickey Mouse. And his gloves? A wannabe replica. If you tried to bring Sonic into Disney's realm, you would be arrested for imitating the greatest character of all time. Mickey Mouse reigns supreme. Sonic? Just a poser.
Congratulations on your 100k subscribers pup! Great work 👏 😊
Very on-board with your criticisms and your ideas for addressing them. I think that the brand is certainly going in a good direction, but the potential is limitless if we get Flynn and Stanley even more involved with the brand than they are. They have proven that they know what they are doing and, given the right direction, can make truly incredible works of fiction with these characters and this world. Here's hoping John Sega, founder of Sega, is a Pup subscriber and has heard your input.
True !! Also, I hope we could see more stories like Metal Virus and an adaptation of Sonic Frontiers and Sonic Prime.
23:42 no...freedom fighters have no reason to be there they completely from a new continuity that is seperated from the game universe just fsce it theu will never make a return.
"ThEy'Re frOm SepAraTe coNtinUiTy" Just because characters weren't introduced in the games doesn't mean it's impossible for them to be reworked and implemented into them.
@@ashesGeek dude...Sega of Japan has no plan to bring them back don't get your hopes up.
@@user-vt6dd4kz5t I don't, I just don't get why Sega and fans are being such assholes to let everyone be happy even if they don't care about these characters and stories.
@@ashesGeek I was never a fan of them anyway instead they are mostly focus on characters like Amy, shadow sonic etc...
@user-vt6dd4kz5t except Sega didn't give a shit about even giving Amy a spotlight until 2022 unlike Archie comics which explored her a bit more than just typical tsundere stereotype gag.
the idea for the cell-shaded graphics is something i’ve never thought of before, but i absolutely love! i’ve always thought something was wrong with their designs in 3D but wasn’t sure how to fix it, and i think that, along with slight remodeling, would make for a huge improvement in the characters’ visuals
Sonic is just pure dogshit. A pathetic attempt at copying the legendary Mickey Mouse. And his gloves? A wannabe replica. If you tried to bring Sonic into Disney's realm, you would be arrested for imitating the greatest character of all time. Mickey Mouse reigns supreme. Sonic? Just a poser.
No dude it feels like a downgrade! the realism lightning visuals looks way better and has a higher quality than cell shading.
He wants a 2D like sonic but sonic visually looks better already..if they want to make an improvement make him more like a 3D cinematic Sonic something like that I have no complaints about how frontiers looks it just..cell shading feels like a downgrade to me
@@user-vt6dd4kz5t i think cell shading could provide a much more visually distinct and better performing series, in a game where speed really matters, being able to have things run smoothly can really help. i love cell shading personally and with the more exaggerated designs of sonic characters it could really shine
@@JosephJJB yeah...no cell shading just feels cheap and there's no benefit into it in my opinion again... it's all subjective I'm not here to fight you for having a different opinion it's ok we have different opinions to me the current art style of realistic texture isn't all that bad it's high quality and make the environment more beautiful in my opinion but if you like cell shading more power to you 👍
@@Sammy-34079 please stop, just stop...
"Imagine if Sega decided to move things in a new direction which meant that stories like Sonic Adventure 2 or Sonic 3 & Knuckles were not only not canon but that you'd never see the characters like Shadow, Knuckles or Amy ever again."
I am getting flashbacks from the Mario & Sonic 2020 Shadow's character bio.
Sonic is dogshit he a rip off of mickey mouse he Trash sega sucks
Disney is better
sonic is gay and stupid compare to mickey mouse
Do you have an image of it? I'm curious on what it's about but can't find it by just searching
@@caioaugusto5019 Mickey Mouse, the undisputed granddaddy of animated characters, is absolute gold. The unparalleled partnership with the one and only Bugs Bunny? Epic. But Sonic and Mario? They're nothing but wannabe villains. And those movies? Just a pile of garbage compared to the masterpieces from Disney. So, if you're still clinging to those lesser characters and their pathetic attempts at movies, it's time to open your eyes and accept the truth. Mickey, Bugs, and Disney. The true champs in the animated world.
This is the most confusing youtube reply I've ever received
So congrats I guess
@caioaugusto5019 Not exactly, but i can link you to a video that shows it ruclips.net/video/BbPvTliZ95Q/видео.htmlsi=gS2BJ0vbKlQwn3-H
26:13 ".... even though kids aren't that stupid!"
Maybe, but I know some adults who grew up with this franchise who ARE that stupid. Even though the SATAM series is clearly drastically different from the games themselves, I have actually spoken to people who clearly don't see this. Years ago(we're talking pre RUclips here) I remember seeing these message boards online of people saying things like "urgh, I hate Sonic Adventure! There's no Freedom Fighters! No Princess Sally! No Knothole Village! No Robotnik! No Robotropilis! No Swat Bots! Instead we get all of this crap like stupid humans in a boring looking realistic city and a bunch of crappy characters I don't care about! They weren't in the older games so they just feel out of place!" I was like "Dude! All of the things that you listed weren't in the old games either!" These are fans who just have it ingrained in their heads "Old=Good, New=Bad!"
Let's face facts, even if Sega did acknowledge the SATAM series and the Archie comics in the games, even if it's just in a museum gallery in a newer game or something, you just know that these fans won't settle for just that. They'd be pestering Sega to get them included in the game's continuity, or worse, start demanding an entire spinoff series of games just starring Sonic the Freedom Fighters and such. And if Sega caves in and gives them what they want, then we're right back to square one with an inconsistent brand, along with a divided fan base who will inevitably get into petty arguments over which Sonic is the better Sonic, or the "Real" Sonic as some put it.
Heck, we even kind of have that already with the Classic/Modern divide. You mention how it would suck if Sega didn't acknowledge their past and not include popular characters like Shadow. Yet this Classic/Modern divide is kind of doing that already. It's basically saying "You know the original Sonic gameplay style? With 2D gameplay and momentum based physics? The one that practically every Sonic fan loves and gets universal praise from fans and critics alike? Yeah, ONLY CLASSIC CHARACTERS CAN BE IN THOSE GAMES FROM NOW ON! If a character doesn't have a Black eyed, Classic design, then they can't be in it because... I dunno, Modern hating Classic fan brats think that Coloured irises ruin the gameplay! AND WE'VE GOT TO KEEP THEM HAPPY, RIGHT? I mean, who wants Shadow, WHEN YOU'VE GOT GREEN HILL!"
Even your idea of a more Cell Shaded design sounds great, but Sega will likely never do it. After all, this is a fan base that actually tried to boycott a game because it featured Sonic with green eyes in it! It's almost no wonder why Sega are hesitant to experiment these days. Also, considering the fact that wannabe RUclips critics still love ragging on Sonic games because they think that it makes them cool and clever (news flash people, it doesn't!), you just know that they'd be criticising that too. "Oh, Sonic's now trying to copy the art style of the Persona series! Stop trying to be what you're not, Sonic! You're nothing more than a dumb kiddy mascot platformer intended for babies who aren't allowed to play grown up games like Minecraft, and autistic furries!" FYI, that's based on actual things I've heard people say about this franchise! People actually look down on this franchise, and it sadly feels like Sega are completely aware of this. That's why I feel like the series is in the state that it's in.
19:54 - Kid Icarus: Uprising
You said it. Uprising is one of the best examples of just... charm, in a video game. It's charming, fun, it can still get serious when it wants to, it has great humor, celebrates its past without being tiring... It's great stuff.
I liked how the Archie comics added characters that were outside the games like Breezie and one of the things I missed was the Egg Bosses.
Biggest problem is boost formula… it needs to be redone and rewarded. Dare I say the sonic frontiers DLC had a level with a gauge that I think did it well…. You had to be very good to get to the max speed… and maybe upgrades makes him easier to control…. Idk, I think they were experimenting and that was dope.
Sonic is dogshit he a rip off of mickey mouse he Trash sega sucks
Disney is better
sonic is gay and stupid compare to mickey mouse
And now Sega and Sonic Team will see this video and think making a game about Sonic fighting a big cheese is a good idea. Lol!
They'll hear no complaints from me if they do it.
Can’t wait to see how Green Hill, Chemical Plant, and Sky Sanctuary work in to this.
Honestly, I'd be interested to see that.
How about the big cheese at Sonic fights is a parody of Disney that'll be funny as hell
10:10 to 13:55 I disagree with Ian and Evan revising the character bibles, writing for the games or for the comics being canon to the games (which the comics aren't canon to the games). Pretty good video non-the-less.
Reasons: ruclips.net/p/PLjxGdOuizF7QPWXDnM13XxKdyNRRLpLTP
Sonic is dogshit he a rip off of mickey mouse he Trash sega sucks
Disney is better
sonic is gay and stupid compare to mickey mouse
Great but small problem, I don't want to think about the comics
My friend, it's time to face the facts. Sonic is just pure dogshit. A pathetic attempt at copying the legendary Mickey Mouse. And his gloves? A wannabe replica. If you tried to bring Sonic into Disney's realm, you would be arrested for imitating the greatest character of all time. Mickey Mouse reigns supreme. Sonic? Just a poser.
I will say the closest we got to ingame Sonic models reflecting the 2D art was Heroes. Those are to this day my most favorite models ever, I wish they'd bring those back and do some cool cell shading stuff with em
Sonic is dogshit he a rip off of mickey mouse he Trash sega sucks
Disney is better
sonic is gay and stupid compare to mickey mouse
20:35 man, first it was Radical Soda comparing Pokémon Scarlet/Violet's landscapes with Mind Over Mutant's and now you with the cutscenes!
this can't be a coincidence...
7 v 7
it's nice to see this game getting some recognition for what it did, the cutscene animations are all over the place but that's what i really love about it personally
Sonic is dogshit he a rip off of mickey mouse he Trash sega sucks
Disney is better
sonic is gay and stupid compare to mickey mouse
"We have integrated Sonic and the Big Cheese into the mainline Channel Pup canon" -Iizuka or smth idk
Sonic is dogshit he a rip off of mickey mouse he Trash sega sucks
Disney is better
sonic is gay and stupid compare to mickey mouse
I know that a lot of kids first find out about sonic after watching movies or prime but i first learn about a franchise in 2020 after playing mobile ports of sonic 1,2,cd and starting watching videos about Sonic. First 3D game a played was Generations on steam and then adventure games in 2023 and i started reading idw comics (in Poland were I live ve only heve 20 issues because it started relasing in 2022 and it cost 60 polish zl 15 bucks in America)
And also i somehow get Sonic Cookbook . I never have sonic toys until lego sonic relased (Jakks Pacific figures cost 150 zl it's like 37 dolars) so in Poland is really hard to be a Sonic Fan so now i mostly play Sonic fan games
Welcome to the squad!
@@ChannelPupThanks
Okay I feel like there are a few things needing to be addressed here
And most of this is about your claim what would make sense business wise and not just fan wise so for the most part will my own opinion as a fan take a backseat to business sensibilities.
Firstly I already disliked it in the GameApologist video you mentioned but to go over it again. Please pay attention to the comic and who is writing what. If the game characters would be as limited as you claim I highly daub we be getting things like the great "Scrapnik Island" or comedy greatness like Winter Jam. And Ian himself also is always using the game cast they only got over shadowed in the mini series because those were about specific characters that were new to the comic (mostly Zavok got a pretty good showing in Bad Guys). The extrem focus on the comic exclusive characters are mostly in Evan's writing.
And speaking about Evan's writing its amazing to me how both your and GameApologist manged to overlook that the reason you feel like nothing happens isn't because they don't want to step on the games toes but because the story structure for the current and the previous long arc keep the main cast in the dark about the ongoing villain plot. So while the villain plot is happening in the background are the game cast just messing around unaware of the looming danger just about every aspect of" miss adventure" was setup for the current racers story (setting up Clutch as the main villain, him manipulating the Babylon Rogues, Mimic's infiltration, Tails testing out his new extrem gear, ...) and we are only at issue 1 of that and its already obvious how it all build towards. I wouldn't even be surprise if we setup for something big with the Chaos Emeralds. Its just that prior to just the most recent issues the Heroes had no idea what was going on and that some parts of it (especially issue 64) were just terrible written.
Like its fine if you guys don't like the very "Sonic story in 06" story structure that Evan is employing right now but please actually acknowledge it for what it is rather than just make such false claims.
Now for the comics part.
For someone that claimed at the start to think about this from a business perspective you sure don't do that right now on this part here, The Games sell more unites even when they flop than the comics so obviously will they on that virtue alone be valued more than the comics and that is before we getting into first party creation bias over out licensed media.
And as Sega doesn't make the comics is the comics doing well not much of a concern as its a small licensing income + marketing.
And that also brings us to the next point on why this isn't a super healthy business decision because if you allow the comics to introduce dramatic changes to the status quo that last will all non comic reading games only fans (which given the disparity between comic sales and game sales are a lot) be extremely unhappy that Sega puts important information into a comic that they have to pay for which and this is the kicker might not even be legally available in the region of the world were there life as the comics are not localized in as many parts of the world as the games or even if they are are they only done so with massive delays (like Japan first reached the Metal Virus story arc last year)
And all of that isn't even taking into consideration that not all of the changes Ian and Evan have and would do are ether popular or even wanted. Ian and Evan love to entirely re-characterize silver to be inline with an old popular but prior to them putting into the comics in canon unfunded fan interpretation of his character that sucks all the edge out of him.
And Ian got into serious hot water with fans over the whole Sonic Morals debacle in issue 50 too.
The visuals of Sega's cheap renders for promotional material certainly don't hold back the games. A lack of budged and time do which is why they use reuse the same model with a few touch ups. I mean who can you even make this argument in a world were Sonic Prime was made with the style it was or where Sonic Dream Team is animated like a dream or when the comics get to use the official Sonic Channel and Riders art to dress up its characters.
In general with some of these Sonic channel designs now even making it into the Sonic Mobile games (like Jester Sonic) is it really just 3d promo renders that are limited.
And as I said the real limit on why Sonic in most mainline games looks so stiff is because prior to just recently did Sonic team dramatically lack in budged. What makes the comics and animations look so good is the fact that there are 2d and so can go as far off model as they have to be in order to look good leveraging Sonic's roots in 1920-30 cartoon inspiration. Doing that in 3d is expensive and requires a lot of model distortion (certainly not impossible Dream Team for what it is is a good attempt and Prime did it will for a show but still a lot more difficult and by proxy expensive)
Tho for why Sonic Team never goes cell shaded? That could be entirely down to technical reasons in that many of the features that they build for there graphics engine were designed for the more realistic world elements of Sonic Unleashed and as such would a cell shaded artstyle perhaps not fit with it which would mean massive expenses in changing graphics framework and or engine.
There might also be a argument for consistency is semi-realistic visuals even for entirely surreal places has been the go to Sonic style since 1998 (like even Heroes wacky stages were rendered with the same semi-realism as Adventure 2 and Generations would show that off even more for all of its locations.)
Breaking news famously nationalist Japanese want to exercise the stuff not made in Japan more news at 9. But seriously again why should Sega viewing from a business perspective care at all about a comic series published by a third party that they had a lot of legal trouble which whose original publisher that owns the distribution and artwork rights refused to renew the license back in 2017 and depicts a vision of the franchise that is far removed from what the games are and contains a lot of things that might would be harmful to the brand (like most of the stuff Ken Penderds did with the Echidnas), were for the majority of there life time only available in the USA all while again even the best of the comics sold less than the games that flopped. And for that matter why do we talk only Archie anyway? Are all the other dead parts of the franchise past not worth talking about like the Fleetway "Sonic the Comic series", the old novels, the mangas, Sonic Underground.
And I feel this "the Comics were never super popular because you know comics in general aren't anymore" is the big important thing that makes Archie inherently different from what you talked about with Spiderman.
But to really put it down what you actually want according to this video is that the licensed third party media (the comics) get to dictate the tone, world and visual look of the Video games and Sega is than to follow that effectively putting a giant chunk of Sega's biggest franchise in the hands of a few American comic artist and writers and the Comic publisher that they work for?
I hope putting it like this explains why its absolutely not the way that Sega or even Sonic team who obviously want to stay in charge of Sonic them self would ever want to go down..
This is really good but it has too many typos.
@@lepacs14 My friend, it's time to face the facts. Sonic is just pure dogshit. A pathetic attempt at copying the legendary Mickey Mouse. And his gloves? A wannabe replica. If you tried to bring Sonic into Disney's realm, you would be arrested for imitating the greatest character of all time. Mickey Mouse reigns supreme. Sonic? Just a poser.
My friend, it's time to face the facts. Sonic is just pure dogshit. A pathetic attempt at copying the legendary Mickey Mouse. And his gloves? A wannabe replica. If you tried to bring Sonic into Disney's realm, you would be arrested for imitating the greatest character of all time. Mickey Mouse reigns supreme. Sonic? Just a poser.
My problem with current sonic brand is that everything is being unified under one continuity / universe / timeline. Everything must be the exact same thing which is the Games and IDW. We aren’t allowed to have other interpretations of the brand like Archie or SatAM or Fleetway or within the games: adventure anime sonic vs cartoony Pixar comedy sonic.
We just have like you said: Modern, Classic, Movie Sonic. Just three. Nothing else. No continuation/revival/reboot of older defunct continuities of sonic allowed, leaving money on the table.
Sonic is dogshit he a rip off of mickey mouse he Trash sega sucks
Disney is better
sonic is gay and stupid compare to mickey mouse
I think I mostly agree with your points on where the Sonic brand weaknesses are at the moment. For all three:
1) I think the games still have to take priority over the other media like tv and comics, because the games take the longest to develop, and it makes it cumbersome to account all the details from elsewhere. I think the problem here is more so that we are “waiting” for new material from games like Frontiers and Superstars to appear in other media. I definitely think that is taking too long.
2) I absolutely agree, no notes :)
3) The only things Sega could rerelease from the Archie days with little issue are the Post-Genesis Wave stories, and maybe the first few issues. All other characters introduced into Archie in between those parts are basically a judicial and financial nightmare that is unfortunately not worth Sega’s hassle. :/
Sonic is dogshit he a rip off of mickey mouse he Trash sega sucks
Disney is better
sonic is gay and stupid compare to mickey mouse
Give me a Sonic game that looks like that animated Frontiers Anime Opening in both style and animation and I might not even think about complaining about the style
A hundred percent with you're ideas, even though I'm not that much of a fan of the Arche comics, I do have to admit how great they were and how much influence they had in their running time, especially on the fandom and the idea of letting the IDW comics lead the games is much better than them tip toeing around the games to not get gamers confused, also I think that changing the art style of the games to a more comical one well do us all a favour, and you basically said everything I had in mind from the feedback cycle to the museum in the games.
I wish sonic team would make it easier to get the cell shaded sonic superstars skins is there even a way to get them?
Sonic team didn't make it
@@WSBM14 no i mean like i wish it was easier to access those skins
Time for a video/business presentation that's gonna age in 10 years 😂
*Most* things age over time 😂 do you think it'll age well or badly?
@@jordanromesburg6819 Well I hope.
Honestly hate how Ian Flynn characterizes Sonic in IDW, he doesn't understand who sonic is as a character. He only knows/understands how write Archie Sonic which is a completely different character from game sonic.
Sonic is not a hero, sure he's heroic, but he's not a hero and doesn't want to be.
Also sonic doesn't have a no kill rule or is against killing his enemies. He just isn't bloodthirsty.
Sonic also never cared about redeeming his enemies/villains. In the games he never tries to redeem Eggman, so i don't understand where this idea that sonic wants everyone to be good comes from.
Ian flynn keeps writting him likes he's superman when in fact sonic is more like Goku, a good person who does what he has to do in order to defeat his opponents and protect his friends.
The best example of who Sonic is as a character is in Sonic and the black knight.
The reason why Ian writes Sonic like that is because fans themselves were saying, in response to the 2010s era, that they wanted "more mature writing and storytelling", so Ian wrote Sonic accordingly. This isn't a case of him not understanding the character, this is a case of him responding to fan demand whilst trying to course correct from the 2010s and give the character any real depth for the purpose of writing a comic.
But the fans of course dislike it as predicted and have become obsessed with nit-picking characterisation.
@@QwerpOSThat's not nitpicking.
Nitpicking is when you are basically making a big deal out of small things that don't matter overall.
Ian Flynn's terrible characterization of Sonic is actually an incredibly big deal. The characterization of a character especially the main character either makes or breaks a story/franchise.
IDW sonic is bad because of the terrible characterization, it's why people lost interest in it and why it's going to be canceled.
IDW sonic is not good, stop coping.
@@lightingdragon4143 Sonic is dogshit he a rip off of mickey mouse he Trash sega sucks
Disney is better
sonic is gay and stupid compare to mickey mouse
@@QwerpOS Sonic is dogshit he a rip off of mickey mouse he Trash sega sucks
Disney is better
sonic is gay and stupid compare to mickey mouse
@@lightingdragon4143 You realize SEGA also wants Sonic written in the same way, right?
Imagine if Ian left and a new writer takes over but writes Sonic the same way. And another new writer takes place but Sonic never changes.
Are you going to blame the writers still? There’s some things in the background were not privy to but understand there’s some mandates involving Sonic.
Heck, the Sonic Boom got hit with it as Cliff was going to be an inventor but SEGA said no as only Tails and Eggman can be the only inventors.
Also, even when Archie Sonic ran along the games both that comic and Game Sonic were different characters. The IDW are being kept in line with the Game characters this time.
cell shading would definitely help, just like it would with Pokemon
Sonic is dogshit he a rip off of mickey mouse he Trash sega sucks
Disney is better
sonic is gay and stupid compare to mickey mouse
Sonic fan don’t mention Archie challenge.
Difficulty level impossible
Sonic is dogshit he a rip off of mickey mouse he Trash sega sucks
Disney is better
sonic is gay and stupid compare to mickey mouse
I personally never mention archie because I don't care for those comics
@@crestofhonor2349I have news for you: if you don't like what I have to say, don't bother commenting to me. I'm not here to cater to your delicate tastes. If you can't handle some straight talk about Sega and its trash characters, then steer clear. Go find someone else to bother with your Sonic-loving nonsense.
I could argue that Devil May Cry did bring these characters to other media. Little changes were made here, and there, cameos abound, but it worked out at the end.
Sonic's biggest problem is no one can agree what his biggest problem really is because this franchise and what it encompass has had so many different takes on what he's been already. If anything trying to unify the brand is the real mistake because not all of us agree with the unified vision or care to approach it. For example I disagree with almost every point you bring up, keep the comic writers far away from the games, in fact keep the comics and games as far away from each other as possible. Tying multimedia together too tightly is just as bad for how the franchise is perceived as it could help it, if not WORSE because if everything is tied together how does a fan keep track of what is or isn't relevant if all they care about is the games? Even then what if a given fan doesn't play every game surrounding a particular ongoing narrative? Why should I expect a long running narrative or shift in characterization from a loony toons-esque, rubber hose limbed, anthropomorphic blue hedgehog that fights a balloon shaped narcissist with a robot fetish?
Sonic is dogshit he a rip off of mickey mouse he Trash sega sucks
Disney is better
sonic is gay and stupid compare to mickey mouse
Yeah, the fanbase is SO Divided that the only way to enjoy this series is not to look at it as a consistent series, but a sequence of ideas that we can appreciate from time to time. Not an ideal way I get that, but it's really the only way for some of us cause it's honestly more tolerable and less stressful
As for the hand drawn aspect, Sonic Freedom the fan game had it nailed imo. If a style like that but in 3D with modern Sonic could be done, I’d totally pay for it.
Sonic is dogshit he a rip off of mickey mouse he Trash sega sucks
Disney is better
sonic is gay and stupid compare to mickey mouse
as much as im all in for this, if they are gonna go with celshading at some point, they're prolly not gonna do it anytime soon and its prolly cause they wanna use hedgehog engine 2 to its fullest and reach its limit.
maybe.
Well u couldnt be more wrong about that Pup. Evan and Ian's influence are causing the comics to bomb in sales as they are barely sold in stores. I have a local library called Barnes And Noble and guess what I saw a whole section full of comics as they are not selling hell not alot of game fans like myself even knew about the IDW comics till like 2021 as Sega themselves barely promoted them like they dont give a turd about them as I think they know the license will expire soon and they will take it back from IDW.
Idw went through massive layoffs recently and they lost the license to GI Joe and Transformers and Sonic might be next. They are making money from the movies and games but not the comics due to Ians bad writing and Evan trailing on his coat tails woth no changes in the writing at all as shes basically his yes man and does what he tells her to do.
Sonic is dogshit he a rip off of mickey mouse he Trash sega sucks
Disney is better
sonic is gay and stupid compare to mickey mouse
Mario has recently had games with more eye-catching art styles and still uses the stock 3d renders in promotional material and merch,so who says Sonic can't do the same thing?
This may be true for some promotional atuff and merchandise but I'll give nintendo this, they update their renders when they need to, where it matters.
Look at the render for super mario party and the mario render for something like say...mario galaxy 2.
But for sonic, its the same render, just in a different pose with different lighting.
Also, also mario also has a lot of merch with a drawn 2d picture if him instead. Sonic does this too but from what I understand its classic themed merch only.
@@kevinm.5951 Sonic is just pure dogshit. A pathetic attempt at copying the legendary Mickey Mouse. And his gloves? A wannabe replica. If you tried to bring Sonic into Disney's realm, you would be arrested for imitating the greatest character of all time. Mickey Mouse reigns supreme. Sonic? Just a poser.
Sonic is just pure dogshit. A pathetic attempt at copying the legendary Mickey Mouse. And his gloves? A wannabe replica. If you tried to bring Sonic into Disney's realm, you would be arrested for imitating the greatest character of all time. Mickey Mouse reigns supreme. Sonic? Just a poser.
@@kevinm.5951which they would also use 2d art from the Adventure era as those poses were cool. But won't happen cause it must stick le brand
Its funny how the leader of sonic team in japan (not iizuka) some other guy whose on the board of directors said he wants sonic to be on the same level as mario but it always feels like he's being held back for the sake of....some sacred complicated thing.
Somic will NEVER be on the same level as mario unless you truly embrace the franchise, and let other people who are passionate about it, expand it and help it grow.
The heavy focus on consistency and the hiarchy blind sega of oppurtunities right in front of them. I was sad to hear that The End is just defeated now after the events of frontiers, I thought the idea of having a constant omnipresent threat in the series was cool BUUUT, for the sake of brand consistency, The End can't be a thing, even though it spouted all that nonsense about how it can't be defeated. In the end, its just another villain bigger than eggman, thats gets defeated in an admittedly cool way, but does this really do anything to push the lore and characters forward? From what it looks like? No
Sega cherry picks what works and whats convinient to sell Sonic as a global brand.. And that mindset revolves around the entire brand sadly.
I hope i'm making sense here lol
According to Christian Whitehead's team with Sonic Origins, Iizuka doesnt have much control. Sega Japan has Sonic games rushed at low budget.
Iizuka is like a secondary boss. But he cannot control things related to budget and effort
You really not..
@@user-vt6dd4kz5t short version: Segas strong focus on streamlining the brand means that they're not allowing the brand to really show people what its capable of. Instead, they really like to cherry pick things at whats most convinient to them as a means to expand Sonic as a global brand.
Do you really think we'd be grtting Sonic x Shadow Generations if shadow didn't make an appearence at the end of the second movie? Again, why was The End imploed to be omnipresent only for it to be defeated like it was nothing? Why gibe the chaos emeralds debateably cool powerups if we're never going to see them again? What perfect oppurtunity will have to occur to see Sonic's handheld games release? Who tje FUCK was that dragon secret biss at the end of supersrars? Do you see the issue here? All these questions, all these concepts, will they ever be guven proper resolutions or a time in the spotloght? Or is it just better to contain them in a bubble, use it and then never use it again or sit on it until the right oppirtunity presents itself
Art style and merch is a whole other thing. Sega honestly just neeeds to make merch that looks better, thats all it is. At least make the boxes look good anyway.
It wasn’t even sonic team, it was one of the higher ups at sega sammy
@@lemon5000-tj6nv Yes!
I kniw that!
Read the comment
Its iizukas boss, thats who i'm refferring to. He on the board of directors and is the leader of CS2 (aka Sonic Team) i think his name is Osamu Ohashi
I have been pissed at Sega ever since i found out my favorite characters were completely meaningless to the franchise, if they do to idw what they did with Archie I will destroy the brand that I used to love, I grew up in Sonic's dark age, 2010, but I fell in love with sonic x,, sonic satam, and Archie sonic comics, why did they ruin my childhood, I'm currently 14 and love the sonic comics, besides fleetway, but I just miss seeing the freedom fighters, why couldn't Sega make them cannon, I'm currently crying because of this
Sonic is just pure dogshit. A pathetic attempt at copying the legendary Mickey Mouse. And his gloves? A wannabe replica. If you tried to bring Sonic into Disney's realm, you would be arrested for imitating the greatest character of all time. Mickey Mouse reigns supreme. Sonic? Just a poser.
stylized shaders and cell shading is getting more popular so I think its a good idea
I'm not even sure little Jack and Jill need le brand to be consistent. I grew up with the games being inconsistent with multiple genres across multiple platforms (mainline 2D, racing, isometric, 8-bit kind of felt like its own thing, Adventure had multiple playstyles), the Fleetway comics, no idea if the TV was going to air AoStH, SatAM or Underground until I tuned in (and even then, episodes were out of order, including two-parters being shown months apart), plus Sonic Jam's theatre advertising an animated Sonic movie I wouldn't get to see until I was an adult and yet I am still a compulsive fanboy for the series aged 35. I'm still incredibly frustrated that Sonic Prime missed a great opportunity to acknowledge and celebrate all of that.
Sonic is dogshit he a rip off of mickey mouse he Trash sega sucks
Disney is better
sonic is gay and stupid compare to mickey mouse
All points made were great. Sonic IDW will not last long if it is secondary to the games. By having both feel important, more people will read it. Since Sonic is a shoenin series, an anime-esque style would fit very well. While we’re at it, why not bring back the game openings from the 2000’s? Those openings were perfect for hyping up the adventure ahead.
Sonic is not necessarily Shonen. In some cases it is. In other cases Sega does not particularly care to target the Japanese fans.
Sega throws things at walls and repeats what sells the most. Sega acts if fast money is involved. Firing voice actors (as Mike Pollock said) was a business move. Save money
@@VanessaWong-yi5pe Since anime is a popular trend among gen z, I think the direction is warranted.
How about replace the current higher ups at Sega with people who know how to treat us Sonic fans better
“Sega hire this man” energy.
@@hydrocitysharkSega does not want to do that. Sega does not want to change
Alot of advice and problems with Sonic is obvious. If problems are painfully obvious that anyone can point it out, then Sega does not care.
@@VanessaWong-yi5pe Fine by me, as I do not like the mentality anyway. LSMark’s video on Sonic Omens brings home how I feel on the subject.
Depends on the type of fans. If you get a James Gunn type of fan, then we’re good. However if you get Sonic Omens then big oof
I’m adding also, the continuity that the Japanese have with their IPs is the way to go, common sense, everything should sell each other, they shouldn’t be clashing or insignificant or contrasting or different universes because then you separate the fan base so much and end up having to continue to try appealing to all the different fans when like I said, it should all sell eachother.
What do I mean by that? What you write in comic, do in animation, do in movies and then do in video games, now, if you don’t do that all the time, the writing should be reflected across the other mediums. While everything doesn’t have to be 1 to 1 it should be 5 = 1+1+2+1 the writing covers all the material and the other mediums break up the story material into different ways to experience the story. So when people who don’t read comics become interested, they can read the comics or invest in all the other mediums to gather the story.
I hope that all makes sense.
Sonic is dogshit he a rip off of mickey mouse he Trash sega sucks
Disney is better
sonic is gay and stupid compare to mickey mouse
Based on your description of things in the first part, it sounds like Sonic has hit Pokemon status. Everything else in the franchise exists just to power the merchandising aspect of the series. The games no longer innovate, but rather react to the rest of the industry in a frantic race to keep pace. Literally in fact, as games are still getting rushed with minimal budget.
There was a time when I'd look at the pokemon anime and recognize it as "being based off of the games'." However, during sun and moon, the games had a sudden decline. Meanwhile, the anime staff legit said, "we're gonna train and get better," delivering a season with some of the best animation that the series had ever seen. Furthermore, they utilized the characters far better than the actual games did. With the next set of games, the anime staff saw the writing on the wall and just went, "screw it, we'll make up our own plot." I explicitly remember how the pokemon anime used to get criticized for going off the rails, yet here they were years later getting praised for it. Meanwhile, the games ended up delivering the worst story the series had ever seen. By this point you could safely assume that the show was calling the shots and the games were "based on the hit TV show!"
How long before Sega starts looking at the additional media that way? I mean, that's basically what happened to Sonic Boom as a series. The whole project got derailed because Sega suddenly had more faith in the slapstick Saturday morning cartoon than the actual game that was meant to spearhead the new sub series. That IDW issue you pointed out really widened my eyes too. We're basically dealing with the freedom fighters 2.0.
I've always felt that things on the creative aspect of a franchise should remain on the same level. Stuff that happens in the games and stuff that happens in other story driven media should impact each other, but not to, like, a Kingdom Hearts level where you need to consume all of it in order to know what the hell is going on. Like, just imagine a game where Surge showed up. She'd be the perfect rival for this era of Sonic, versus Shadow's old anime rival aesthetic. How about a game where they used a villain who ISN'T Robotnik and he's not even part of the plot? With that, you could even start branding new characters in merchandise, like you said at the end there. Give Knuckles his own nemesis to fight, or Tails or Amy, then make a spin-off game about that.
Honestly, the more I think about it, the realer it gets. Sonic is near identical to Pokemon; an ancient franchise, living on the nostalgia of the past, while desperately trying to appeal to the youth...by constantly drawing references and homages to the past...which completely go over the heads of the new audience. The key difference is that Sonic keeps trying to make the past readily accessible to anyone who wants to see it, albeit a very curated version of it, whereas Pokemon just keeps slapping new gimmicks on a dated jenga tower of buggy game design and just assumes you'll buy it at full price. I think the feeling that Sonic is still trying reaches people a lot more, compared to the arrogance of Nintendo and Pokemon Co.
Sonic is just pure dogshit. A pathetic attempt at copying the legendary Mickey Mouse. And his gloves? A wannabe replica. If you tried to bring Sonic into Disney's realm, you would be arrested for imitating the greatest character of all time. Mickey Mouse reigns supreme. Sonic? Just a poser.
That's pretty much Sonic in a nutshell, I knew this franchise and Pokemon were similar. Kinda why I left cause that's a headache and a half
@@derple8524 Understandable. The reason I still respect the Sonic franchise over pokemon is because it still feels like the devs are trying to please the fans. They're either just too incompetent to do it right, Sega won't give them enough money, or both.
Pokemon though, not only are they incompetent, but they know they don't have to try anymore. It's become a zombie franchise that refuses to innovate in any meaningful way that isn't, "how do we get more money?".
I think they should go back in the direction of the original sonic design like superstars… and make him talk, give him the new color scheme. I think the Tyson desk go is great
Sonic is dogshit he a rip off of mickey mouse he Trash sega sucks
Disney is better
sonic is gay and stupid compare to mickey mouse
Have you ever considered doing a ranking of the Sonic Channel art with two characters doing a thing
I like some of the ideas, but the advance level of patting oneself on the back and saying things like “I didn’t know Frontiers could actually look GOOD” make it hard to keep me. Not to mention one of the ideas would be cool having the comics play off the games, but the way it’s pitched sounds like it’d happen every time, which sounds like a chore and a restriction placed on the comic writers potentially. Like if they write a story, it’ll have to be consistent with the immediate game and go through a crazy amount of approvals even more so than just writing their own story.
In all honesty, they should totally be able to write stories they want and not have to worry about continuity issues with the games if they’re really that good because the games themselves deal with the same thing anyways. There are very few things you have to worry about accidentally screwing up in upcoming games. But if you’re consulting with SEGA and there’s a lore master then this issue is avoidable. They will tell you when something can’t be done and why, or they will base their works off of what’s established in the comics (or rather they’ll make sure it isn’t contradicting)
Unless it’s Sonic Prime and you consult Ian Flynn but ignore him. Assuming he’d being completely honest about that..
Sonic is just pure dogshit. A pathetic attempt at copying the legendary Mickey Mouse. And his gloves? A wannabe replica. If you tried to bring Sonic into Disney's realm, you would be arrested for imitating the greatest character of all time. Mickey Mouse reigns supreme. Sonic? Just a poser.
That Persona example made me yearn for another attempt at a Sonic RPG and for it to be made by Atlus this time.
Mario gets 3 RPGs in a year and we haven't seen an RPG since Chronicles: the Dark Brotherhood.
I also wish in terms of branding SEGA could look at something like Mega Man. Okay maybe not the lack of *new* Mega Man content, but we've had X, Legends, Zero, ZX, Star Force...
The classic/modern split is such a limitation and tbh I'm tired of every 2D game being classic Sonic. There's plenty of fans who have come of age that would love some attention for Advance and Rush.
I don't like the Freedom Fighters. Maybe because i'm not from USA. Those characters look outdated. Plus, a lot of NON-COMICS characters haven't been used for a long time. For example - Silver.
I want to remind people Ian didn't write the story for Sonic Frontiers he only wrote the character dialogue and interaction
Great well edited video! I love how genuienly in-depth it is while also being understanding towards why they do what they do in the first place, providing an actual alternative. However, I do wonder about the method of using comic book tie-ins/animations with the main games with more direct continuity. As much as I would personally love that, I feel if SEGA were to fully commit in that preferred direction... I think after a couple of years, people would begin to turn against it.
I say that mostly cause I've seen a similar thing complained about with Disney+ shows for example. A lot of potential complaints with Disney+ shows was that you'll need to partake in external content from the movies to fully understand the extent of the story, having to pay more money to understand what's actually going on. Like, for example, using the Sonic and the Big Cheese idea lol, I feel I shouldn't have to read a comic book to understand the motivations of a villain. I feel that they should be contained enough to be told within the original media itself, not having to rely on an external piece of media to understand something fundamental to a good storyline. If they're required to "complete" the experience, then some may feel like they're having to do homework to understand the stories. As far as I can remember, there were also complaints towards the Infinite IDW comic further fleshing out his backstory, when he was already extremely flat in Sonic Forces, which only makes the game feel more underwhelming.
Basically, I think there's a delicate balance between having the direct line of games influence the comic stories and vise-versa. If done too much, it kinda falls into a Final Fantasy XV problem, where so much important info is scattered across books, shows, games, mobile titles, and more, it becomes extremely difficult to keep up in the long term. However, if done too little, the IDW problem happens where now they lack any significance or purpose in the grand scheme of the franchise.
Either way those were just my two cents on it! Overall I agree with pretty much everything, ESPECIALLY the aesthetics portion. Going for the artwork textbox approach is genius and blows my mind why SEGA hasn't committed on it yet! It would literally kill THREE birds with one stone. Save time with animation, allow for artists to shine, and help with rendering on lower powered consoles!
Valid point
Avatar: The Last Airbender kinda suffers this problem. Where they'll put lore in books and dead mobile games lol. I saw a few people complain about this in sonic frontiers, where eggmans memos weren't a part of the main story.
I think there are 2 ways to solve this:
1. Really tighten up the story of Sonic games, so that nothing is really left on the table unanswered. If you'd like to tell the story in a different way maybe sprinkle a collectable in a level that encourages the player to actually get it instead of maybe putting it off tje beaten path in a minigame.
2. Write stories in comics that compliment the games rather than expand on stories they've already told. Now I don't read IDW so maybe they already do this but imagine a mini comic with orbot and cubot that shows what they did with eggman gone during frontiers story or a mini comoc thats about sticks and it ends with a phone call from amy about going on a road trip OR a mini comic that follpws the chaotix who've noticed sonic and yhe gang have been missing for days (playing into frontiers rapid day & night cycles) and they go around lookong for them getting up to their usual bullshit. These are all just spitball ideas, but one thing thats common amongst them is they all give lesser characters a chance to shine which was unintentional on my part but if srga is so uppity about what the main cast saying and doing certain things, i feel like this is a good balance
So would the game tie in comics be non canon or are you supposed to assume it takes place during the respective games ?
Kinda like the TSR 1 shot comic ?
Sonic is dogshit he a rip off of mickey mouse he Trash sega sucks
Disney is better
sonic is gay and stupid compare to mickey mouse
I dont like the part where you purposely picked the rainy weather for the graphic comparison and choose the stand still dialogues when there are beautifully animated cutscene (you make it sound like theres none). The suggestions themselves are fine tho
Sonic is dogshit he a rip off of mickey mouse he Trash sega sucks
Disney is better
sonic is gay and stupid compare to mickey mouse
Sega biggest issue for me is multiplayer in the main sonic games they haven't really tried sense sonic adventure 2 battle like just add a proper race and vs mode like you did sa2
Sonic is dogshit he a rip off of mickey mouse he Trash sega sucks
Disney is better
sonic is gay and stupid compare to mickey mouse
I do believe that it'd be better make Sonic games more stylized. You can also just change the artstyle alltogether. I mean it doesn't really matter as long as the characters look right. What really matters is that the game looks pretty.
I do wonder why Sonic characters aren't allowed to squash and stretch ever since Shadow the Hedgehog (game)
Sonic is dogshit he a rip off of mickey mouse he Trash sega sucks
Disney is better
sonic is gay and stupid compare to mickey mouse
They just need to do good shit with what they have and DON'T. HOLD. BACK. Use everything they've got and not foolishly limit themselves out of MEANINGLESS fear.
17:50 about to the model in my opinion i don't think forces model have any problem or infact tye forces model looks very clean in my opinion the problem the only reason he was looking bad in forces was because he didn't exactly had a great animation in forces specially he didn't have any idle animation either in forces either like he looked lifeless evenif they make a render similar to idw sonic animated like forces i don't think it's going solve anything infact in my opinion i think they can still have a good use of this model and it's design very well if they give this forces sonic model a better dynamic animation and movement and improve his facial expression wouldn't make the model like.. one hundred times better? Just saying
And frontier already did that with this model for the most part ofc..he has idle animation in frontiers so he doesn't look lifeless and in some cutscenes he's very expressive and well animated better than forces heck frontiers even have those cool action cutscenes aswell with the bossfights specially when super sonic cut knight in half like it was an anime cutscene by using the special techniques of animating and make that scene more like an anime cutscene so there's definitely a style and effort here i hope we have more of these kind of animations like this in the future games.
My friend, it's time to face the facts. Sonic is just pure dogshit. A pathetic attempt at copying the legendary Mickey Mouse. And his gloves? A wannabe replica. If you tried to bring Sonic into Disney's realm, you would be arrested for imitating the greatest character of all time. Mickey Mouse reigns supreme. Sonic? Just a poser.
Hm, fair and valid points and opinions, i pretty much agree with all of this,
I would really like to see SEGA implement any of these Ideas, but I recognize that might be very unlikely,
Still, I hope that they manage to come up with something at least similar to what was mentioned here, i just wish that they get things together.
Actually, how likely would it be for Morio to see this?
Sonic is dogshit he a rip off of mickey mouse he Trash sega sucks
Disney is better
sonic is gay and stupid compare to mickey mouse
id rather have the japan SONIC X guys
than lan flynn
I'll take both.
12:39 opposite i think superstars' story is actually great for the love of god it introduced one of the best sonic characters that is trip.
Sonic is dogshit he a rip off of mickey mouse he Trash sega sucks
Disney is better
sonic is gay and stupid compare to mickey mouse
Bring in the Freedom Fighters, Morio Kishimoto wanted to bring them in the future games.
Sonic is dogshit he a rip off of mickey mouse he Trash sega sucks
Disney is better
sonic is gay and stupid compare to mickey mouse
Honestly, this franchise's problem has always been *inconsistent execution* . Sega either listens too much or too little and the result is everyone having vastly different opinions on what Sonic "should" be. Which leaves the writers and artists working on the franchise scared to *commit to anything*
That's why Eggman is the only consistent long-running antagonist in the franchise, why Sonic and the rest of the cast haven't had their designs updated in YEARS , even though they desperately need it at this point, its why none of the games since 06' have had legacy storylines like Shadow's character arc and Tails becoming less and less reliant on Sonic etc. Hell, if anything, they've been *reverting* the characters.
Its only recently that we've gotten back on the right track.
Sonic is dogshit he a rip off of mickey mouse he Trash sega sucks
Disney is better
sonic is gay and stupid compare to mickey mouse
I keep hearing this, what do you mean UPDATE their designs?
There’s series like Mario that kept his look for ages (sure he started off differently), but the blue overalls, red shirt, red cap, and mustache have been a part of his design and never changed.
There’s a few art style changes like the Mario & Luigi and Wonders. But his design is the same.
Heck Kirby too! He’s just as simple as Sonic too!
Why do we need to change it? The models could be updated, but the designs?
I don’t get it. It sounds like utter nonsense and no one knows what they want with Sonic.
SEGA should just hire people who work on the Persona games to work on Sonic games, in terms of aesthetic
Sonic is dogshit he a rip off of mickey mouse he Trash sega sucks
Disney is better
sonic is gay and stupid compare to mickey mouse
Also ian flynn did say that the comcis are just as impactful as the games and vice versa
They COMPLIMENT each other.
No they don't.
@@doctorchaos4436 Sonic is dogshit he a rip off of mickey mouse he Trash sega sucks
Disney is better
sonic is gay and stupid compare to mickey mouse
Sonic is dogshit he a rip off of mickey mouse he Trash sega sucks
Disney is better
sonic is gay and stupid compare to mickey mouse
Nah comics should be separate
@@crestofhonor2349 I'm not going to stop trashing Sega just because you don't like it. They're an awful company with an even worse mascot. Sonic SUCKS, and nothing is going to change that. So go cry about it if you want, but the only person you're fooling is yourself. Sega is TRASH, and it's time you get with the program.
Honestly if they just gave us action figures or cameos for Sally, Bunnie, Antoine, Rotor and Cosmo I'd be happy.
Imagine if other corporations treated characters that did not ornate from The source material the same way Sega treats the Freedom Fighters. Literally wouldn't have Harley Quinn, Batman Beyond, X-23, etc.
Actually in Sally's case it's worse because she does come from the games. Being the original English name for Ricky.
I just don't get the same excitement for Sonics stuff after they got rid of the Archie comics. Or more specifically just beloved characters from other media. Replacing them with characters like Tangled or Whisper while kinda cool I guess... Just don't scratch that itch. Because they just feel like replacement characters.
I don't see the harm in reading the Freedom Fighters to fit better into the canon. They can just readapt them like they did for Mighty, Ray, and the Chaotix.
The brand just doesn't feel the same to me anymore and I'm no longer excited to see what new products there are. I can't even fully get excited over Shadow generations as much as I really want to.
Sonic is dogshit he a rip off of mickey mouse he Trash sega sucks
Disney is better
sonic is gay and stupid compare to mickey mouse
To be fair sonic does the sa pose in sonic generations
I wouldn't be so keen to see the comics have much (if any) influence on the games. It's an approach that killed off the Prototype series after two games due to comic readership being nowhere near as big as the gaming community. By the time Prototype 2 was released, the audience were like "wtf happened?!" and the rest is history. I'd say it's better to have separate comic stories from the games that take place between the games imho. As for the freedom fighters, meh. They're just glorified OCs used to expand the cast at a time when there weren't many official characters to do anything with. I never accepted them as canon even as a child because it was obvious to me that the games were set in their own universe with their own style. It's right to retire them.
Sonic is dogshit he a rip off of mickey mouse he Trash sega sucks
Disney is better
sonic is gay and stupid compare to mickey mouse
BTW, Cell shading would most likely be cheaper to make than ultra realistic-fur-textured-shiny-eyeballs graphics. There is literally nothing but benefits to go cell shading.
Sonic is just pure dogshit. A pathetic attempt at copying the legendary Mickey Mouse. And his gloves? A wannabe replica. If you tried to bring Sonic into Disney's realm, you would be arrested for imitating the greatest character of all time. Mickey Mouse reigns supreme. Sonic? Just a poser.
Exactly it feels like a downgrade
The only issue is that, for every group of fans who absolutely love this new cell shaded approach, there will inevitably be another group of fans who absolutely hate it and start complaining that the older models were absolutely perfect and that Sega should change it back!
I know that this term has been used a lot, but it's literally a Sonic Cycle.
@@bowmaj8666 Sega should just go for the art style and direction they want to go at this point cause once again the only thing I see in this video and comments is that the fans don't know what they want
@@user-vt6dd4kz5t I agree with you somewhat, but I also have my concerns. It's obvious that Sega can go too far with trying to appease the fan base and ultimately end up making everything even more convoluted than it ever was to begin with. But there's a problem on the other end of the spectrum where if Sega just did whatever they wanted all the time, then they risk alienating their fans.
I mean yes, I get that something as incredibly small and insignificant as an updated design with a bit more detail such as coloured irises is enough to alienate some fans out there, but what if Sega just went overboard and gave us something that doesn't even feel like a Sonic game in the first place. Take the storybook series for example. Still to this day I don't really understand the thoughts process behind the majority of the decisions when it comes to those. I mean, the controls were kind of a given; it was a brand new console with an experimental controller and they clearly wanted to make the most of that. But having Sonic travelling into storybooks? Having his friends acting as characters in them, and then shoving them all to the sidelines in favour of a brand new human character, who barely looks or feels like a Sonic character at all, and ends with them being sad and Sonic giving some speech that sounds like it came from a book of motivational quotes. It was kind of confusing. Personally, it just kind of made me want a more traditional Sonic game.
So Sega really do have it hard. Do they play it safe and end up becoming mediocre, or do they take a risk and end up being criticised for being "too different to what a Sonic game SHOULD be?" It really is a rock and a hard place situation for them no matter what they do.
What’s the name of the song playing in the intro of PUP channel ???
My friend, it's time to face the facts. Sonic is just pure dogshit. A pathetic attempt at copying the legendary Mickey Mouse. And his gloves? A wannabe replica. If you tried to bring Sonic into Disney's realm, you would be arrested for imitating the greatest character of all time. Mickey Mouse reigns supreme. Sonic? Just a poser.
thank you for talling us how to fix the sonic game,s
Channel pup intro plays gotta turn tf up 🕺🏽🕺🏽🕺🏽
Sonic is dogshit he a rip off of mickey mouse he Trash sega sucks
Disney is better
sonic is gay and stupid compare to mickey mouse
Good video, I can't and won't agree with everything you said, but some solid points made, but it's too soon to tell and I expect them to start slow if any of this is taken into consideration. I just find this a little annoying since everyone has a bone to pick with the series major or minor but this manages to be nuanced.
Sonic is dogshit he a rip off of mickey mouse he Trash sega sucks
Disney is better
sonic is gay and stupid compare to mickey mouse
One the models bit, I fully agree the promotional renders need to be overhauled and used way better. But the in game models themselves, are fine and can just do with some touch ups to update them and help them shine more, along with just better Art direction overall. Some games games that come to mind for me when it comes to a better art direction for sonic are dragon ball sparking zero, marvel rivals, and sunset overdrive. All of these games have such distinct and striking art directions, that I can’t help but want something like that for sonic.
Sonic is just pure dogshit. A pathetic attempt at copying the legendary Mickey Mouse. And his gloves? A wannabe replica. If you tried to bring Sonic into Disney's realm, you would be arrested for imitating the greatest character of all time. Mickey Mouse reigns supreme. Sonic? Just a poser.
I'd also wanna throw out there to include the Fleetway and Shogakukan manga along with the Archie representation, even though I'm in the US, I 100% agree their history also needs to be acknowledged. Bringing all three into the fold will only help enrich the brand. I can understand not wanting to replicate every minor detail from each because let's be real, they ALL went into some wild directions, but they absolutely need representing in the games. Honestly the very least they can do is have the characters acknowledged as at least living in the world. Granted maybe not have their history as a 1:1 to their original depictions, but maybe something like game adaptations that represent them. I've always said this, but it would be cool to have a game-ified version of SatAM as if it all was happening as a single Sonic game that takes place before Sonic 1, acting as somewhat of an origin of both him and Eggman's rise to the spotlight. Honestly could have it as like all the early comics and shows rolled into one.
Sonic is dogshit he a rip off of mickey mouse he Trash sega sucks
Disney is better
sonic is gay and stupid compare to mickey mouse
I've been thinking for a while that the series needs a group up overhaul. The cast, the physics, the art style, the music... EVERYTHING. They are still releasing games that were originally built off Lost World. How does no one see thet problem with that?
Sonic is just pure dogshit. A pathetic attempt at copying the legendary Mickey Mouse. And his gloves? A wannabe replica. If you tried to bring Sonic into Disney's realm, you would be arrested for imitating the greatest character of all time. Mickey Mouse reigns supreme. Sonic? Just a poser.
You gotta be kidding me are you saying the cast and music are bad!?! Art style is debatable
@@user-vt6dd4kz5t look, I know some people like Roger. I only liked him in boom. I can't and never have been able to take him seriously as regular modern Sonic. I would be absolutely fine if the Prime cast took over with some better direction. I may not like how Sonic was written in Prime but at least he actually sounded like Sonic. The EDM stuff is just getting stale. It would be nice if they looked at the adventure, Shadow, 06, Unleashed or rush ost and went from there. As for the art style yeah just go full cartoon cell shading give sonic that iconic figure 8 like in prime go all out with the style flair.
Tell me that doesn't sound like a game you wouldn't play?
@@user-vt6dd4kz5t I don't like the cast either. I also do not care for Rodger as Sonic
I think the art style is fine outside of Frontier's insistence on being super realistic worlds. They need a bit more stylization but not quite cel shaded. Cast I can agree at least for Sonic. I do not like Rodger's Sonic outside of Boom. He just has never done it for me outside of that one property. I'd love to have Ryan Drummod brought back as he has expressed interest in playing him again. Music I can agree to disagree. Some stuff I like and others like the EDM I don't like. I do disagree that these games are built off of lost world though
To have Scurge the main villain of a Sonic game eould be awesome....but....
If Ken Penders would only sell the license, it'll never happen.
Sonic is dogshit he a rip off of mickey mouse he Trash sega sucks
Disney is better
sonic is gay and stupid compare to mickey mouse
Hi! Where can I leave you fan art?
Can’t wait to play Sonic and the Big Cheese. Sounds like an awesome game. 😂
Sonic is dogshit he a rip off of mickey mouse he Trash sega sucks
Disney is better
sonic is gay and stupid compare to mickey mouse
I wasn't gonna watch this video since I'm in the verge of leaving the franchise for good as I'm so tired of both Sega and the Fanatics. This was a great watch and if they took some of these points to heart it could really shape this series. In the meantime I'm gonna go enjoy other franchises that haven't given me a headache for the past 5 years, great video pup. And all of you have a wonderful day in the comments, even you fanatics... God you're everywhere 🙄
Sonic is just pure dogshit. A pathetic attempt at copying the legendary Mickey Mouse. And his gloves? A wannabe replica. If you tried to bring Sonic into Disney's realm, you would be arrested for imitating the greatest character of all time. Mickey Mouse reigns supreme. Sonic? Just a poser.
Sonic's biggest problem is that they didn't let him stay dead, when they had a whole game dedicated to his death. Shadow is showing they have back-up options!
Exactly no one likes that bum 😒 shadow is where its at
Shadow side eyeing the end of SA2 👀
What the hell are you talking about?
Wtf..
@@dillonmalbrue4179 Probably murder of Sonic.
Here's an interesting question does SEGA owns the right for any fleetway sonic the comic characters or not? Like since fleetway publishing doesn't exist anymore who owns character like Tekno,Shortfuse,Super Sonic,Ebony
I think they do!
@@ChannelPup yeah i decided to do some research and it turns that SEGA doesn't own the right to Fleetway Sonic The Comic
Edit: i was wrong