I left the UPCI just this year. I Pastored a Church plant in the City of Chicago for years. I am very acquainted with the movement. This man’s experience with the Apostolic movement is the norm. The ministry is nothing more than a business anyone in these organizations. He is not lying about the Pastors having big houses, expensive clothes, and fancy cars. I was a member of First Church of Hobart Indiana, and the Pastored and his wife of course managed All the Finances, and paid themselves a “humble” weekly salary of 10k… this was a 200 member congregation. It’s not just the big mega churches living lavish, I am convinced that in many cases, the smaller, less observable “churches” very often are the biggest thieves..
I went to a church for about a decade that taught what I call "super strict holiness" Sleeves to the wrists, skirt to the floor, etc. That church lost so many newcomers it is sad. But I fought them tooth and nail and only stayed because of my family. Finally they left, and so did I.
Than you for having me on! I'm looking forward to reviewing this again. My apologies for the poor audio - my pro mic was on loan. I appreciate your channel and purpose. Keep up the good fight!
Thank u for your testimonies yall have helped me alot.❤ i felt so alone but now i have support bc yall are out here stepping up to help ppl. God bless u both!!
Amen brother, check out Renee Roland on RUclips. She is absolutely right on the gospel and we all can agree to disagree on what discipleship may look like. I used to attend a United Pentacostal Church. I am not a cessationist but I prefer to err on the side of safety. I am currently attending an Independent fundamental Baptist Church. LOL.
WPF was actually started after the 2007 General Conference when the ministers voted to allow churches to advertise their church on television. The WPF ministers think that UPC has gone sideways and liberal. Its just insane, and UNCHRISTIAN!! What a shame!! I know personally of people in our church that have left or decided to dress differently and our Pastor and his staff all loved them the same. I am sure that I have a very unique Pastor, but that has been my experience. On the flop side, I know people that came out of the same kind of church that Ralph did. They are older saints now, and STILL HAVE HORRIBLE SCARS from what happened to them. Some of their friends completely walked away from any belief in Christ. Those Pastors will have a lot to answer for on judgement day.
I also attended the same church that Ralph left. Can confirm everything he said is accurate. I went through 12 years of their private christian school, so the indoctrination was very strong. My desire is to continue to try and plant doubt to help people see the problems and eventually find their way to be free.
I have relatives of relatives that go to this church. I knew it was a toxic community, but I didn’t know the extent. So many of these UPC church, and churches that branch off from the UPC, seem to cultivate an environment for narcissism and straight manipulation. My heart hurts for people who are still trapped in this fear driven lifestyle.
Great video! Thanks for doing this, I hope you do more of these. When I was a UPC pastor I used to be appalled by those who dared to assert that THE UPC was a cult. Even after I left I would think well I don't agree but they're not a cult. But then I started studying cults found similar recruitment, retaining and shunning methods in cults. Leaving a church will teach you what kind of church it is mire than years of attending. I know that many will say they are nit a cult but, they certainly have a lot of cultish methods and practices. It is so sad really. Keep putting the message out there.people are watching.
I too, felt the same need to “defend” things, even after not being a part of the UPC. It’s ingrained. But the more I observe, read and listen for myself, the more off-putting those behaviors become. They get in the way of my relationship with God. It’s noise. And to have to work though the noise to get to God is exhausting. I agree, Mark!
Mark, So true. I was raised in it and I still have great friends in not just upci but also aljc and wpf. I have done a lot of reserch and currently THE UPCI is rated the 10th most Cultic movement in the USA. My daughter who is 20 still attend with her mom. Main reason we divorced in 2004. I don't have a relationship with her because according to them I have a reprobate mind and going straight to hell That's their choice to believe that. I know my heart and my personal relationship with God. My ex wife is totally brainwashed by these people and it is very sad.
It's interesting that Jesus said, " Narrow is the way and few there be that find it". One has to be searching for " the way" in the first place in order to find it or not. What happened to those other than the few who were searching but didn't find it? They were deceived into excepting beliefs that looked like the way but were not such as the catholic and protestant churches. The catholics teach a salvation by works and the protestants teach a faith without obedience in order to be saved. If you were to place the apostles,including Paul, from their behavior and teachings in the book of Acts in a church body today they would be classified as apostolic pentecostals.
I just recently found these videos and they are helping me so much. More than anything I've come across so far. I was in the UPC for 4 years. I had just lost my 3 year old son to meningitis right before I joined. I was really needing God in my life. After 4 years I had PTSD so bad from these experiences. I had a lady come up to me when I first started. She said to me, " Don't you have convictions? Go buy yourself some skirts. She then handed me a check for $100. But the worst part was a lady prayed for me one day and told me I needed to pray and beg God not to leave me. I thought I lost my salvation and it has caused tremendous warfare In my mind for many years now. I left that church many years ago because I was feeling so much fear. I have ulcerative colitis because of the fear I experienced. But I've been struggling for a long time. Your videos are helping me realize the truth and I'm feeling much more peace for the first time in a long time. I still have a desire for God and I've been really trying to figure out what I really believe lately and that's how I came across your videos Thank you.
Oh Tiffany, I'm so sorry for the loss of your son. I can't even imagine that kind of grief. I'm also sorry for your experiences within the church, the first lady you mentioned needed to mind her own business and the second lady was completely off base in her own theology. Jesus said he'd never leave us or forsake us. He also said that no one could pluck us out of his hand...God's not looking to leave us. I'm not surprised that your health succumbed to the fear and trauma you experienced. I too am a member of the chronic illness community (not a club anyone wants to join). I hope you've been having some good days. If you would like some support while you navigate your healing and figure out what you believe there are a few online Facebook support groups I can recommend that are private. If you'd like more info you can email me @ deannajonorton@gmail.com
Speaking in tongues was a big issue for me too, Ralph! Glad you spoke out about it. It bothers me deeply to see this gift being reduced down to incoherent babbling. The Bible defines this gift as an actual intelligible language (Acts 2:6-11).
Actually, according to the scriptures, " tongues" is one spiritual language not native to this world. When pentecostals speak in this language it is called praying in the spirit. When we pray with its source being our mind then we pray in our native language but when we pray with the source being our spirit it is the Holy Spirit helping us pray in a spiritual language that the Lord understands but we don't because it's not necessary that we do. Paul said, " When I pray in an unknown tongue my spirit prays but my understanding is unfruitful..". In other words Paul is saying that when he prays in this language that he doesn't understand what he is saying.
I’m so thankful I have found your channel though! It makes me feel so relieved that I’m not the only person struggling with what the Pentecostal church’s say.
Glad I found your channel. I grew up as a Baptist due to my mother and her family. But due to my father. Me, my mother, and my brother were forced to start attending an Apostolic church. My father denies the trinity, believes you’re only going to heaven if you speak in tounges. So we get into very heated debates and arguments over this. I’m so tired of fighting this fight. It be a lot easier if he’d just respect me in my life. I have found a great Baptist church that I attend with my grandmother and God is truly working in my life. But it seems to be that he thinks I’m lost or not truly saved. I don’t know how people have got through this. I have no idea how I’m gonna keep a relationship with my dad when we go through this.
I'm glad to hear that God is working in your life. I'm sorry to hear that you and your dad having differing views is affecting your relationship. Their view of all other believers as being "lost" is so frustrating. It may have to end up being a topic you guys intentionally avoid in an effort to maintain your relationship. You may even need to have a heart to heart talk with him and tell him "Dad, this is something we both feel very passionately about and always ends up causing friction between us, so I don't think we should discuss it anymore. Neither of us are going to change our position. Maybe we just need to love each other and pray for each other and let this subject rest". If he is willing to do that, your relationship can survive. It's a matter of establishing a new normal. Hopefully he will respect your boundary. Unfortunately, boundaries seem to be a huge problem in many apostolic groups.
Just let your Light Shine❤ Love/ self control Holy Spirit gift ...I have Family In UPC so I understand/I left years ago and attend a Trinitarian Assembly Of GOD that leans more non- denominational Spirit-Filled Services.. Love it❤
UPCI swears they are the One True Church But That’s not what the Bible says:::The True Apostolic Church (Ecclesia the called out assembly) According to the Book Of Revelation scripture reads;;; The True Church Of The Living GOD are those whose Robes are WASH in the Blood Of The Lamb ❤not brick or mortar not an institution not an organization.
You would think if cutting ur hair is a sin then God would say it in the same sentence as murder or fornication etc. U would think he would make it clear insread of us having to search and search in lexicons and strongs and all the study material taking word for word🤦♀️
Exactly! Not to mention that the early Christians did not have a New Testament to read. With so many rules and regulations you'd have thought God would have set up another "Moses on the mountain situation" where someone somewhere would receive the instructions to be given to the people up front.
"making it clear" also applies to almost every christian doctrine. Hence the hundreds of denominations that have appeared in the past few thousand years. It's my opinion that a written document is one of the worst methods possible to try and spread a message across an entire globe.
1 Cor 11 does not "state clearly" that a woman cutting her hair is sin. There are plenty of sins that are clearly listed in scripture and reinforced in multiple verses but cutting hair is not one of them nor is it mentioned in any other verse or letter to the churches.
@@ResponsibleFaith It states that a female cutting her hair is a disgrace and a man having long hair is also a disgrace. It may not clearly state that it is a sin, but if it’s in the Bible then it is the word and the truth. Just like Leviticus 19:28 states that we should not have tattoos or cuts (maybe piercings). 1 Corinthians 6:19-20 states that we are not our own, we are Gods. Our bodies is Gods temple, so why would we bring disgrace on Gods temple?
I’ve recently left a Oneness Pentecostal church just like the one he described and this channel was recommended to me by others who have also went through the recovery process. While listening to Ralph speak, I realized I knew exactly the church he’s talking about - the daughter of his former pastor is now the pastors wife of the large mega church we left.
Absolutely love this interview! Thank you for sharing all that you do about this organization and organizations like this one. So thankful for the love and support you and Ralph give to all of us that have been raised or have had time in this abusive religion. Keep doing what you do, it's helping others on their journey! God Bless!
Good information you have shared, I presently go to a UPC church. But I have not joined them fully, I like the pastor who has never pushed any UPC rules on me. I actually think he knows better, but I do like his passion for Jesus and respect his walk in Christ. I know I could never become a full blown UPC member and thats fine with me. For now the Lord has me there and when the cloud moves or pillar of fire so to say does, then I will. Blessings
OMG!!! What you said about the tongues thing. My best friend that passed away 2 years ago was a rebellious pastor's son. But had to joke about speaking in tongues and would say "sellamyhonda" and "buyasuzuki". He also made the comment that he was at the altar one time praying and he had one guy on one arm saying hold on brother hold on. Another guy was on his other arm saying let go brother let go. He said he looked at one of them and said do you want me to hold on and looked at the other one and said or do you want me to let go? Which is it? 😆😆😆😆 He was so bad...lol
Wow. We couldn't wear jewelry, shorts, attend movie theaters, go to the beach, wear shorts sleeves, etc the women could not cut their hair, have corn braids, we had to get permission to go to another church, we had to call in if we were going to miss a service....I didn't change my faith. I just modified my belief system
Especially that now there’s Faith Based movies made🎉The Father had put a ring on the prodigal Son / King Yeshua(Jesus) wears a crown of jewels / The Bride Of Christ is decked out / it’s all man made rules for control of $$$...
Wow! Sounds like my experience. The only giving you could do was a continuous circle. People never have enough left over to raise your own family which came last, and still give outside there circle. Thanks for Sharing.
One of my good friends attends a UPC church. At one point her and her husband decided to start their own side business. The pastor was very upset that they had not consulted him first. He said that this wasn't going to give them much time do work for the church. Another time my friend planned a Christian skate night at the skating rink. She invited several local UPC churches. And a few Christian friends that were not UPC. The first month tons of people showed up. The next time less than half the people showed up. She found out that the pastor of the big UPC church wouldn't let his people attend. She never found out why he did this.
I love both of your channels.. Both have been very helpful in my journey. Thank you both. I loved it when Ralph mentioned that when you leave a cult, there's this marked moment when you come in and leave. In healthy churches that doesn't happen. Wow! So true.
The Pastors wife told me when my mother died that people she knew who gave everything they had to the church moved forward with God. AND then when she thought i had had enough and was leaving she told me other people doing the same thing sometimes got sick and died early and were afflicted. The hair had to be exact . And my daughter at 12 work a long sleeved shirt swimming in the lake in the middle of July. During some church services the pastor would pass around a baby wipe and all the young girls had to wipe it on their face to see who would dare to try make up
Wow! How inappropriate! What she said to you was spiritual abuse, plain and simple. I'm sorry you dealt with that. Unfortunately it is a common control tactic used in unhealthy legalistic churches of many different denominations. The passing around of the baby wipe...how ridiculous! Unhealthy boundaries.
Wow!!! I left the apostolic/pentecostal church several years ago. Since then, I have learned so much of God's grace, love, and mercy. We are saved through his blood and love. Some of these churches are so strict that even Jesus couldn't make it to heaven..... Truly Sad!!!!
Sorry to hear that these churches hurt this is disappointing to hear just know God loves you sometimes the best thing is to stay in prayer on your kneeshave you ever heard the song sometimes it takes a mountain holy ghost radio listen to that may God talk to your heart I have listened to your storybecause if I ever have my own church I don't want to ever turn anyone away I don't want to make the same mistakes other people I'm not perfect we go to a Pentecostal Church we've had problems but but I take them on my knees to God. Listen to the song sometimes it takes a mountain. May God help you and bless you and all your struggles
My husband isn’t understanding. I left an horrible upc church I was at for 32 years. I should have taken time for myself. I jumped into another upc church. My husband keeps arguing that they don’t force you to do standards or give, etc. ugh, he isn’t getting that it shouldn’t be required in the first place.
Hi! Who are the authors of the books that he mentioned? I would love to read them. I’m 15 and I was put into a Pentecostal church at the age of 10. Lately I’ve started doing more research on this “religion” and have found no scriptures to back up their standards of holiness or steps to salvation. I’ve told my dad that I don’t believe in it. But he won’t let me leave because my grandparents are our pastors and he believes they will cut him out of their lives if we end up going to another church. I’m so heartbroken that I’m having to waste my teen years on something I don’t believe in or stand for and that I’m not getting the relationship with God that I need.
I'm sorry to hear that Anna. I understand how hard it is as a teen to keep standards you don't believe to be Biblical. You can maintain your own relationship with God by reading and studying for yourself to know Him better and spending some time in prayer. It's sad that your family feels that way...it's too bad you couldn't talk your dad into allowing you to attend another church's youth group (along with your UPC church) and maybe convince him to loosen the standards just a little bit? Maybe that would be a bit of a compromise. I know this isn't an easy situation. If you check out the description box under the video I listed the books and authors as well as links Ralph's blog. Another book you might enjoy is "Free: From Legalism to Grace Breaking out of the United Pentecostal Church" by Jennifer Brewer www.amazon.com/Free-Legalism-Breaking-United-Pentecostal/dp/1087259134
Responsible Faith Thank you! I’ll definitely check out that book too! I’ve just recently started praying and reading the Bible on my own, and reading the book of John has helped put my faith back in God. I still struggle with questioning the church we go to because they really enforced the idea that it’s rebellious to question them. I just can’t believe that God would stop loving or send someone to hell for what they wear, how they look or if they don’t follow Pentecostal’s “salvation” steps. Seeing if I can compromise with my dad sounds like a good idea though, thank you so much for your help!
GOD forbid if UPC members found the truth that the early New Testament Believers were never baptized in Jesus Name/didn’t exist/the Letter J was not in the Hebrew alphabet and the name Jesus has only been around since the last 400 years and UPC was formed 1946 ... Yeshua is the Aramaic Hebraic Name the Book Of Acts used...Jesus is derived from Greek Zeus...
I grieve for those who make these videos because in their stance against the strict holiness standards of the UPCI they inadvertently are keeping seekers from visiting and learning the only Bible proven plan of salvation. They also fail to mention that UPCI and other pentecostal churches are not strictly enforcing the holiness standards as the did years ago.
Yup, I was in the music ministry for 20years and music director for spanish apostolic church in southern California for about 10 years. I always battled with them when it to music selection or dress code plus many other things. After discovering truth about them I had to go it was tough but I was seeking God and God was not in that church.
It is so tough to leave. It always annoys me when they speak of those who leave as "taking the easy way out". The way most of those churches treat people who leave ensures there's nothing easy about it.
@@ResponsibleFaith Yup, I've ran into the people from my old church from time to time and they always never let me forget about past church issues. Instead of focusing on the present they always bring up the past. My closest friends are still apostolic, some understand and disagree about the apostolic legalism etc. but are too afraid to admit it they're institutionalized.
We have a Constitution that guarantees us our freedom in the US and Canadians have the Charter,yet people are so willing to give those freedoms up to high control religions!
You know he's talking about the programs that the church he is going to now is involved in. When I was a young mother I can remember thinking how sad it was that I did consider myself a member of a couple of churches throughout my marriage and there were times when we had rough times but yet I had to go to the Catholic charities or St John the Divine at the Methodist Church to get help. I never understood why the Pentecostal Church didn't at least help its own when they were in need. But I guess that would have taken money out of the pastor's pockets. JS🤷
I want to respond to your video . I go to a UPC in Indiana. I was raised in the church . I know what you are saying. All the people they have hurt. I have been hurt myself but it is not God's fault. That is people for you. But it does not change the Word Of God.. I left for a few years but came back recently. But I do cut my hair and wear pants. I go now to serve God. People probably talk I go for God nobody else. I want to make heaven no matter what. They have to answer for what they have done. I could tell you a book on what my husband and I went thru .
Most likely UPC sisters wear pajamas pants in bed...and trim a few split dead ends of dried hair... just dialoguing...BTW: Witches wear long hair thinking it draws magnetic power...
Never experienced the control level so sorry Ralph experienced such a controlling my goodness.my tongues are so real as well as my faith & experience hope he landed in another place with peace & balance still baptizing in Jesus Name glad the focus is in such love
I'm sorry to hear that you walked away from your faith in Christ and made bad choices. Sin certainly leaves scars. I've never heard of the Pentecostals of Richmond but did a quick google search and they appear to be UPCI (or something similar). In all honesty, you would be best to find a church that teaches the true gospel of grace and sit under some Biblical teaching. I believe in the power of the Holy Spirit but I also believe that more than "fire", we need solid teaching on the power of the gospel of Christ because that is where our foundation is built and is the power of God unto salvation. You could always look online, many congregations are livestreaming their services right now. It would give you a feel for what they believe and how they teach.
@@ResponsibleFaith I was wondering about Independent Apostolic Churches than being under UPC church authority.. seems a whole lot worse than I thought.
Unfortunately there's room for toxicity in all of them. Any church with a heavy emphasis on submission, authority, and rules (works based salvation) is dangerous in my opinion.
This is a another great interview. What I find interesting is the different reasons that people finally decide to leave this church or cult or whatever. Sio when Ralph first went to one of the services he thought it was so strange that he immediately left. To me, that is the most obvious red flag --the services are totally crazy! But isnt it strange that no one seems to eventually leave for that "obvious" reason. Its always some small irritating thing that grows and grows, until finally the "light come on" and the person leaves.
Yes, the services have even gotten more chaotic since I left 17 years ago (based on what I see online). I guess it's a different journey for those of us who were raised in it than people who join as adults. I have seen the services scare people away before.
The ministers of the WPF did not leave over the Affirmation Statement. The WPF was formed in the winter of 2007/2008 after the UPCI General Conference voted to allow advertising and ministry on television. I know this because we angered our prebyter by disaffiliating our church. Our pastor then sent his card to our District Superintendent. The Affirmation Statement and the creation of the WPF were two distinct occurrences and should never be conflated.
Hi everybody. Hope all are having a blessed day. I am on the verge of a panic attack. My UPC pastor keeps repeating like a clarion call "Rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubborness as the sin of idolatry and keeps talking about the body being the temple of the Holy Ghost and the usual clarion call of worldly music, worldly tv, etc. I am on the verge of mental collapse. I know hes talking and probably gossipping with his pastor friends about what I am going through. I struggle with tobacco and liking secular music. I am thinking of leaving the United Pentecostal Church and going to the United Methodist church. I know I am going to lose a lot of friends over this because they will gossip and say that See, that proves he is in rebellion!!!! Thank you for this channel. Though I speak the tongues of men and angels, but have not love in my heart, I am as a tinkling brass and clarion cymbal. That is the conclusion I have come to. I was raised in a church of God and after personal situations that I had when I went to where my parents were raised, I lost faith in mainstream churches and started a search which put me at first with the Mormons, than Seventh Day Adventists, than a church that had all the seven signs of spiritual abuse after the changes of doctrine "Worldwide Church of God". After that, I lost faith in fundamentalism and joined the Roman Catholic Church and experienced peace and healing that I never experienced before. I had a vibrant parish both in Georgia and Mississippi. I went to a less vibrant parish in another city, and (because I didnt want to hurt my mom- I still believed in God and still do to this day.) Bounced from church to church until I came to this place where somebody talked about his faith as a UPC person. Unfortunately, I bought it, hook, line, and sinker and became UPC. At first they love bombed me and I was just blown away. I felt like I was on cloud 9! But slowly the love bombing went away and the pastor had less and less time for me. The straw that broke the camels back was when a homeless person from my church recently had an altered personality even though he wasnt high on drugs he was "High" in the spirit. It scared the beejeebees out of me. Dont mean to criticize, it was just a scary encounter. I have always believed that there is a heavenly prayer language, in my granddad, but it certainly wasnt like what I saw in this dude. His was a peaceful and quiet prayer language. I am saddened because I know I will lose a lot of my support network. Please help me anyway you can. Blessings
Sorry Tommy, sometimes I miss comments when they come in. I'm so sorry to hear you're struggling and being mistreated by your pastor. As far as secular music goes, I listen to some secular music as well (nothing filthy or anything), but I love an upbeat fun song or a good love song. As far as smoking goes, there is nothing in scripture that prohibits smoking, but we can all agree that it is a bad habit and one to be avoided for the sake of your health. Most people I know who smoke do wish to quit for that reason. I have never smoked before, but hear that it can be a very hard habit to break, my heart goes out to you. That all being said...we are saved through faith in Christ, not by the things we do/don't do. Smoking does not affect your salvation. It's not even a sin. If they're making a case against smoking based on it being unhealthy (and your body being the temple of the HS), they will also need to address all the obesity in their churches. Scripture actually mentions gluttony as a sin. If the United Methodist church has a kind pastor and a healthy environment, it would likely be a wise move for you. Attending church shouldn't be this stressful for a believer. If you lose your friends, they were never really your friends in the first place. A new start could give you peace and an opportunity to make true friends. I hope you can find some peace in this situation.
Try not to over stress/ it’s not the end for you in fact it’s a great opportunity to discover Yeshua Jesus according to scripture through the lenses of Holy Spirit and not UPC legalistic lenses...Blessings
Any time UPC members walk inside Malls there’s worldly music playing/in restaurants / Stores /coffee shops etc.. it’s a form of enticing shoppers to spend money... just dialoguing
Did anybody ever tell you if women cut their hair angels won't watch over them anymore? Because I've had United Pentecostal people tell me that and I've tried to figure out if you stop cutting your hair would angels watch over you again I'm not United Pentecostal but I have some family that are and I've been to church with them
Yes I have heard that but it's not Biblical. I made a video where I address that teaching. There is no correlation in scripture between angels watching over you and a woman cutting her hair. The idea comes from a very imaginative interpretation of 1 Cor 11. ruclips.net/video/rZYvt9QSy30/видео.html
I really appreciate all these testimonies. I didn’t grow up UPC but so many things are similar.... “We loved ourselves and if you came into our bubble we loved you...” 🥺 💔
That's the FIRST experience I was asked in charismatic church in Bangor Maine,if I had ever spoke in tongues ,she was late 50-early 60 it puzzled me as I was there to learn what the pastor preaching study that ,I replied No I have written in it , 1/2 year later my things were being stolen from my residence by Religion cults , I filed complaints with owners of rental units now I have a long history false Arrest ,false hospitalizations .God bless your utube videos,I feel a holy church is part of Pentecostal believing I know that's God secret blessings to his true follower's it hold deliverance and anointings , healings was were I was healed on live stream video it didn't heal me completely I had a painful walking on my leg ,I was not delivered from pain hurt against the evilness that attacked me ,when I would have at my church ,😷🕊️
Just a quick comment about speaking in tongues. The Bible speaks of Tongues of men, Tongues of Angels , other tongues, new tongues. I Corinthians 14:2 says For one who speaks in a tongue speaks not to men but to God; for no one understands him, but he utters mysteries in the Spirit. I used to wonder about these same sounding sounds as well til I did some study and heard teachers like Perry Stone. Also there are groanings which can’t be uttered in Romans 8. I have spoken in tongues known and unknown. It’s real. I used to attend a UPC church occasionally as well. I ended up leaving because of the silly hair issues. They stress long hair yet 95% of the women have put their hair up in these tight buns and it makes it look short. That’s ludicrous. How can the hair be a covering if it’s so tight and up. Things like that makes no sense to me. I am now in a very balanced spirit filled church that teaches grace and mercy. God bless you all.
Lol all of his stories were so crazy because I could relate a lot! I laughed and remember how the day I got baptized I got in trouble for trying to do it in basketball shorts. I felt they were modest they were long and baggy I still didn’t fully understand the skirt thing. I was confused on why I got in trouble but I just went along with it 😂
I'm glad you found it relatable Marlene. It's always interesting to me how different our experiences all were...but how many common threads were in them that made them similar.
Geez had to be fussed at when it should of been a celebratory day 😢Talk about being cheated 😢Sorry BTW: you were actually dressed modest...I’m a Former Oneness UPC/ Whom The Son sets Free is Free indeed ❤
I would like to hear you talk doctrine. Oneness vs Trinity. Eternal Security vs loosing salvation. Acts 2:38 vs believe and repent. I have seen a lot of people leave the Oneness organizations and mainly all they talk about is standards. That would be the last reason I would leave any church. I would have to know that doctrine is incorrect.
My next video interview does talk a bit more about doctrinal stances. If dress standards (the way holiness groups enforce them) would not be enough to make you leave a church, I can only assume you are a man. I will say many who leave these groups do begin their questioning by noticing the absence of some of these standards/rules in scripture and that becomes the jumping off point for their willingness to look at other beliefs (such as eternal security, salvation through faith alone vrs the 3-step plan of salvation, the godhead...). The focus of my channel is not to debate doctrines like eternal security, as you can find many RUclips videos by scholars debating these topics...my focus tends to center around spiritual abuse.
Thanks for the reply I have watched debates over and over but I just want to see it from a former Oneness person standpoint.. I just want to be correct. I have people I love in both camps. The only thing I fear is God and his eternal judgement.
I have people I love in both camps too. Honestly, as a believer I don't fear eternal judgement because Jesus already took my punishment and gave me his righteousness. When God looks at me...he doesn't see my sins and flaws, he see's the perfection and righteousness (right standing) of Jesus. If we have placed our faith in him and are trusting in him alone as our means of eternal life, we are saved and have nothing to fear. Of course my love for him will lead me to want to avoid sin and live a life that's pleasing to him, but I don't have to live in fear that he's sitting up there waiting to catch me in a human moment of stupidity to take away the gift he gave me. Eternal security is something that has been debated for centuries and I honestly don't think it matters (to our salvation) where we stand on that issue. I do understand where you're coming from...diligently trying to get your doctrine exactly correct. It's admirable and something I'm pursuing as well...but can border on unhealthy if we fixate on it too much. In the UPC we were taught that it was our special correct doctrine that made us holy and saved us (while damning the majority of the rest of Christianity) and so in turn it made us obsessed with holding the correct doctrinal position on everything. In my opinion, nobody has it all figured out. We are just people with varying levels of academic understanding trying to sort through a book that has passed down through centuries, has human fingerprints all over the translations, and we just now (in the last 50 years or so) as lay people, have access to the original Greek, Hebrew and Aramaic translations for words and some of the idioms that were used. It's like a beautiful puzzle that well never complete but the joy is in the attempt. It's sad to me how much fear the UPC has layered in to this quest. I do believe many of their teachings to be heretical and yet they are the ones who are firmly set in their beliefs and not "on a quest". I think trying to remain teachable is important. I believe that God knows we're doing our best and it's not correct doctrine that "saves us", it's faith in Christ. I hope that makes sense. Just my views on it. God bless you on your quest.
Another great video and again one I can so relate to. I knew a young lad( he has since passed away) but he attended an Apostolic church in my home province of NB. He started working for the mill. After a bit, some worldly boys got after him to try cigarettes and like all of us we start out by refusing but sooner or later for some the pressure is too much and we give way to temptation. Now maybe for this young land, maybe the one time try would have cured the curiosity, we'll never really know because the pastor had his spies. The young lad was reported and then called into the pastor's office. After admitting to the offence the response from the pastor was, that if he was going to try it once he might as well go all out and just start smoking. There was for a short time that my mum and I attended this particular church. One time I was walking to up to the church with some other girls but I was the only one carrying my hat. As I approached the church the elder pastor commented with a laugh that he thought at first he saw in the distance a UPCer. I could comment more but you get the jest.
İnteresting viedo and very vell balanced You may have left the church system but do you still believe in the Acts 2.38 vay of Salvation or can or is one noü saved in faith.in Christ alone?
And what church did Rick say he went to? Apparently I missed all of the myths that went on in the nineties because I stopped going to church on a regular basis when I graduated high school from the private church school I was at in 1982. By the time I came back to go to church full-time in 2005 everything had changed. Preachers had left the organization in droves. I decided to start attending a non-denominational church that had been started by a former Pentecostal pastor which I just loved, but upon moving back from Tennessee to years ago it's already gotten so big that I feel like a minnow in the crowd. So I'm going to the Baptist Church with my mother-in-law. It's not any smaller but my grandkids love the Sunday school department and the awana's group. I usually sit out in the lobby and listen to my pastor that I had in Tennessee who was referred to me by the church down here that I had gone to that I just mentioned. yeah I'm just like what in the heck happened. I come back to church and nothing is the same in the UPC organization.
Haha...too funny! Roll out the old "televangelist exploitation tactics"! In all honesty, I may look into some logo merch at some point but I can guarantee that a hat would not cost $500! Nobody "loves" me that much except maybe my mom!
Well, things is, be careful of all that you say. God is listening. Do not spew words that damage..I did find this out the hard way. Just pray and tell God your concerns. Do not murmer..don't injur with your angry words..you will so much regret it.
Thank you all for this and I appreciate each point made. I hope that the one's that come on here to hate will see how close to God that you all are and so very wise. Thank you again. When we stepped up to our exit the pastor had the nerve to tell my husband that his rebellion is the reason i am suffering from serious health issues. I think that was one of the points of anger that I have getting passed.
I'm so sorry your previous pastor said that to your husband. I don't know why some people get so hateful...I guess losing control will do it to them. I hope you're having some good days (health-wise). I can totally understand how that would make you angry! So manipulative.
Church starts at home/Scripture reads when there’s 2 or 3 gather in my name I (The Lord ) am in your midst❤According to the Book Of Revelation The True Apostolic Church (Ecclesia the called out assembly) reads///The True Church Of The Living GOD are those whose Robes are WASH in the Blood Of The Lamb ❤
Re: FATHER JESUS RETURNING SOON SAITH BELIEVE YE NOT THAT I AM GOD & YE WILL DIE IN YOUR SINS! JOHN 8 24 REPENT & BE BAPTIZED EVERY ONE OF YOU IN THE NAME OF CHRIST FOR THE REMISSION OF SINS & YE SHALL RECEIVE THE GIFT OF THE HOLY GHOST!! FATHER JESUS RETURNING SOON!
I don’t mean this in any type of manner other than concern but I really think u need to be careful about how far u go with this. People in churches make mistakes. They are human and ppl will let you down. That being said, the word of God is true the doctrine the apostolic doctrine is true and u just should be careful not to fall OUT of LOVE with truth. Dangerous ground you are on
Responsible Faith agreed completely. I guess having never experienced anything like that I became judgmental and I apologize. I listened to Mary’s story and dug a little further into that mans background, although I do respect the office he was in no matter how he got there, he really scared me and I can’t imagine sitting under that for even 5 minutes much less years. Nothing he did said was supported by the word of God Love and prayers ❤️
They are not falling out of love with the Lord, they are falling out from extreme legalism and fear. They are on solid ground with Christ and rightly dividing the Word of Truth, and not living by errors and man made rules. Yes, people are not perfect, but it its spiritually abusive, they do NOT have to stay in it to please others. God tells you to leave an environment like that, you leave. Dont owe a controlling church anything but to love them, and live for the Lord in a real, Christlike environment.
The True Apostolic Church (Ecclesia The called out assembly) According to the Book Of Revelation///The True Church Of The Living GOD are those whose Robes are WASH in the Blood Of The Lamb ❤ not brick or mortar not an institution or organization... just dialoguing
FATHER JESUS DO NOT FORSAKE..... BE NOT APOSTATE..... Re: FATHER JESUS RETURNING SOON SAITH BELIEVE YE NOT THAT I AM GOD & YE WILL DIE IN YOUR SINS! JOHN 8 24 REPENT & BE BAPTIZED EVERY ONE OF YOU IN THE NAME OF CHRIST FOR THE REMISSION OF SINS & YE SHALL RECEIVE THE GIFT OF THE HOLY GHOST!! FATHER JESUS RETURNING SOON!
Actually the name is Father Yeshua/ Letter J was not in the Hebrew alphabet/ and early New Testament Bible Christian Believers were never baptized in Jesus Name that name didn’t exist it was in Yeshua’s Name the Aramaic Hebraic roots ... Jesus is derived from the Greek Name Zeus ... and only been in use since 400 years ago...just dialoguing/ BTW: I have been baptized Acts 2:38 but Holy Spirit conviction to do it according to original name/Heavenly Name given by The Almighty Creator Father GOD❤
I left the UPCI just this year. I Pastored a Church plant in the City of Chicago for years. I am very acquainted with the movement.
This man’s experience with the Apostolic movement is the norm. The ministry is nothing more than a business anyone in these organizations. He is not lying about the Pastors having big houses, expensive clothes, and fancy cars. I was a member of First Church of Hobart Indiana, and the Pastored and his wife of course managed All the Finances, and paid themselves a “humble” weekly salary of 10k… this was a 200 member congregation.
It’s not just the big mega churches living lavish, I am convinced that in many cases, the smaller, less observable “churches” very often are the biggest thieves..
I went to a church for about a decade that taught what I call "super strict holiness" Sleeves to the wrists, skirt to the floor, etc. That church lost so many newcomers it is sad. But I fought them tooth and nail and only stayed because of my family. Finally they left, and so did I.
Than you for having me on! I'm looking forward to reviewing this again. My apologies for the poor audio - my pro mic was on loan.
I appreciate your channel and purpose. Keep up the good fight!
Any time Ralph. Thanks for being willing to share.
Thank u for your testimonies yall have helped me alot.❤ i felt so alone but now i have support bc yall are out here stepping up to help ppl. God bless u both!!
Amen brother, check out Renee Roland on RUclips. She is absolutely right on the gospel and we all can agree to disagree on what discipleship may look like. I used to attend a United Pentacostal Church.
I am not a cessationist but I prefer to err on the side of safety. I am currently attending an Independent fundamental Baptist Church. LOL.
Hi Ralph! Haven't seen you in a long time. This was a cooL Video!
WPF was actually started after the 2007 General Conference when the ministers voted to allow churches to advertise their church on television. The WPF ministers think that UPC has gone sideways and liberal. Its just insane, and UNCHRISTIAN!! What a shame!!
I know personally of people in our church that have left or decided to dress differently and our Pastor and his staff all loved them the same. I am sure that I have a very unique Pastor, but that has been my experience. On the flop side, I know people that came out of the same kind of church that Ralph did. They are older saints now, and STILL HAVE HORRIBLE SCARS from what happened to them. Some of their friends completely walked away from any belief in Christ. Those Pastors will have a lot to answer for on judgement day.
I also attended the same church that Ralph left. Can confirm everything he said is accurate. I went through 12 years of their private christian school, so the indoctrination was very strong. My desire is to continue to try and plant doubt to help people see the problems and eventually find their way to be free.
Fantastic interview
I have relatives of relatives that go to this church. I knew it was a toxic community, but I didn’t know the extent. So many of these UPC church, and churches that branch off from the UPC, seem to cultivate an environment for narcissism and straight manipulation. My heart hurts for people who are still trapped in this fear driven lifestyle.
Sir u just described the church i left with the exseption of one or 2 things😭😭😭its been hard for me. God bless u
I love both of these channels, so glad yall got together to talk about your experiences!! Dont stop making videos!
I think this is my favorite interview so far! Love it! And big thanks to you both. Please keep going😎
Thank you!
Great video! Thanks for doing this, I hope you do more of these. When I was a UPC pastor I used to be appalled by those who dared to assert that THE UPC was a cult. Even after I left I would think well I don't agree but they're not a cult. But then I started studying cults found similar recruitment, retaining and shunning methods in cults. Leaving a church will teach you what kind of church it is mire than years of attending. I know that many will say they are nit a cult but, they certainly have a lot of cultish methods and practices. It is so sad really. Keep putting the message out there.people are watching.
Thank you Mark! I felt exactly the same when I left.
I too, felt the same need to “defend” things, even after not being a part of the UPC. It’s ingrained. But the more I observe, read and listen for myself, the more off-putting those behaviors become. They get in the way of my relationship with God. It’s noise. And to have to work though the noise to get to God is exhausting. I agree, Mark!
What exactly is cultish about the UPC you attended?
Mark,
So true. I was raised in it and I still have great friends in not just upci but also aljc and wpf.
I have done a lot of reserch and currently THE UPCI is rated the 10th most Cultic movement in the USA.
My daughter who is 20 still attend with her mom. Main reason we divorced in 2004.
I don't have a relationship with her because according to them I have a reprobate mind and going straight to hell
That's their choice to believe that. I know my heart and my personal relationship with God.
My ex wife is totally brainwashed by these people and it is very sad.
It's interesting that Jesus said, " Narrow is the way and few there be that find it". One has to be searching for " the way" in the first place in order to find it or not. What happened to those other than the few who were searching but didn't find it?
They were deceived into excepting beliefs that looked like the way but were not such as the catholic and protestant churches. The catholics teach a salvation by works and the protestants teach a faith without obedience in order to be saved.
If you were to place the apostles,including Paul, from their behavior and teachings in the book of Acts in a church body today they would be classified as apostolic pentecostals.
Love this! The losing friends part. Ugh. So real.
Yes getting permission, praying at church, and the vacation thing ugh!
So awesome to see you two do a video together!! Love both of your content!
Glad you enjoyed it!
I just recently found these videos and they are helping me so much. More than anything I've come across so far. I was in the UPC for 4 years. I had just lost my 3 year old son to meningitis right before I joined. I was really needing God in my life. After 4 years I had PTSD so bad from these experiences. I had a lady come up to me when I first started. She said to me, " Don't you have convictions? Go buy yourself some skirts. She then handed me a check for $100. But the worst part was a lady prayed for me one day and told me I needed to pray and beg God not to leave me. I thought I lost my salvation and it has caused tremendous warfare In my mind for many years now. I left that church many years ago because I was feeling so much fear. I have ulcerative colitis because of the fear I experienced. But I've been struggling for a long time. Your videos are helping me realize the truth and I'm feeling much more peace for the first time in a long time. I still have a desire for God and I've been really trying to figure out what I really believe lately and that's how I came across your videos Thank you.
Oh Tiffany, I'm so sorry for the loss of your son. I can't even imagine that kind of grief. I'm also sorry for your experiences within the church, the first lady you mentioned needed to mind her own business and the second lady was completely off base in her own theology. Jesus said he'd never leave us or forsake us. He also said that no one could pluck us out of his hand...God's not looking to leave us. I'm not surprised that your health succumbed to the fear and trauma you experienced. I too am a member of the chronic illness community (not a club anyone wants to join). I hope you've been having some good days.
If you would like some support while you navigate your healing and figure out what you believe there are a few online Facebook support groups I can recommend that are private. If you'd like more info you can email me @ deannajonorton@gmail.com
Speaking in tongues was a big issue for me too, Ralph! Glad you spoke out about it. It bothers me deeply to see this gift being reduced down to incoherent babbling. The Bible defines this gift as an actual intelligible language (Acts 2:6-11).
Actually, according to the scriptures, " tongues" is one spiritual language not native to this world. When pentecostals speak in this language it is called praying in the spirit. When we pray with its source being our mind then we pray in our native language but when we pray with the source being our spirit it is the Holy Spirit helping us pray in a spiritual language that the Lord understands but we don't because it's not necessary that we do.
Paul said, " When I pray in an unknown tongue my spirit prays but my understanding is unfruitful..". In other words Paul is saying that when he prays in this language that he doesn't understand what he is saying.
I’m so thankful I have found your channel though! It makes me feel so relieved that I’m not the only person struggling with what the Pentecostal church’s say.
You're certainly not alone! If you're interested in further resources feel free to email me @ deannajonorton@gmail.com
Love what your doing with these videos! It’s really helping us who have come from abusive churches!
“There’s nothing easy about it.”
Truth
Ralph is a good man to interview . I have used many of his videos on my Blog .
Glad I found your channel. I grew up as a Baptist due to my mother and her family. But due to my father. Me, my mother, and my brother were forced to start attending an Apostolic church. My father denies the trinity, believes you’re only going to heaven if you speak in tounges. So we get into very heated debates and arguments over this. I’m so tired of fighting this fight. It be a lot easier if he’d just respect me in my life. I have found a great Baptist church that I attend with my grandmother and God is truly working in my life. But it seems to be that he thinks I’m lost or not truly saved. I don’t know how people have got through this. I have no idea how I’m gonna keep a relationship with my dad when we go through this.
I'm glad to hear that God is working in your life. I'm sorry to hear that you and your dad having differing views is affecting your relationship. Their view of all other believers as being "lost" is so frustrating. It may have to end up being a topic you guys intentionally avoid in an effort to maintain your relationship. You may even need to have a heart to heart talk with him and tell him "Dad, this is something we both feel very passionately about and always ends up causing friction between us, so I don't think we should discuss it anymore. Neither of us are going to change our position. Maybe we just need to love each other and pray for each other and let this subject rest". If he is willing to do that, your relationship can survive. It's a matter of establishing a new normal. Hopefully he will respect your boundary. Unfortunately, boundaries seem to be a huge problem in many apostolic groups.
@@ResponsibleFaith I thank you for your advice. May God be with you always ✝️❤️
Just let your Light Shine❤ Love/ self control Holy Spirit gift ...I have Family In UPC so I understand/I left years ago and attend a Trinitarian Assembly Of GOD that leans more non- denominational Spirit-Filled Services.. Love it❤
UPCI swears they are the One True Church But That’s not what the Bible says:::The True Apostolic Church (Ecclesia the called out assembly) According to the Book Of Revelation scripture reads;;; The True Church Of The Living GOD are those whose Robes are WASH in the Blood Of The Lamb ❤not brick or mortar not an institution not an organization.
Tongues don’t save you ONLY the blood of the Lamb Of Calvary’s Cross ❤Tongue or Unknown Tongue is for self edification.
You would think if cutting ur hair is a sin then God would say it in the same sentence as murder or fornication etc. U would think he would make it clear insread of us having to search and search in lexicons and strongs and all the study material taking word for word🤦♀️
Exactly! Not to mention that the early Christians did not have a New Testament to read. With so many rules and regulations you'd have thought God would have set up another "Moses on the mountain situation" where someone somewhere would receive the instructions to be given to the people up front.
"making it clear" also applies to almost every christian doctrine. Hence the hundreds of denominations that have appeared in the past few thousand years. It's my opinion that a written document is one of the worst methods possible to try and spread a message across an entire globe.
Great response to this issue, it seems that religious people are always trying to make the way harder.
1 Cor 11 does not "state clearly" that a woman cutting her hair is sin. There are plenty of sins that are clearly listed in scripture and reinforced in multiple verses but cutting hair is not one of them nor is it mentioned in any other verse or letter to the churches.
@@ResponsibleFaith It states that a female cutting her hair is a disgrace and a man having long hair is also a disgrace. It may not clearly state that it is a sin, but if it’s in the Bible then it is the word and the truth. Just like Leviticus 19:28 states that we should not have tattoos or cuts (maybe piercings). 1 Corinthians 6:19-20 states that we are not our own, we are Gods. Our bodies is Gods temple, so why would we bring disgrace on Gods temple?
I found his videos/blog when I was on my way out and his content was extremely helpful. Enjoyed this video!
Glad you enjoyed it!
I am not being funny or anything or judgemental but I wonder why people who join these churches as an adult, of their own free will, stay.
I’ve recently left a Oneness Pentecostal church just like the one he described and this channel was recommended to me by others who have also went through the recovery process. While listening to Ralph speak, I realized I knew exactly the church he’s talking about - the daughter of his former pastor is now the pastors wife of the large mega church we left.
Absolutely love this interview! Thank you for sharing all that you do about this organization and organizations like this one. So thankful for the love and support you and Ralph give to all of us that have been raised or have had time in this abusive religion. Keep doing what you do, it's helping others on their journey! God Bless!
Thank you Connie.
Been their! I left an Apostolic Church
Keep your eyes on Yeshua(Jesus) Church starts at home❤
Good information you have shared, I presently go to a UPC church.
But I have not joined them fully, I like the pastor who has never pushed any UPC rules on me.
I actually think he knows better, but I do like his passion for Jesus and respect his walk in Christ.
I know I could never become a full blown UPC member and thats fine with me. For now the Lord has me there and when the cloud moves or pillar of fire so to say does, then I will.
Blessings
OMG!!! What you said about the tongues thing. My best friend that passed away 2 years ago was a rebellious pastor's son. But had to joke about speaking in tongues and would say "sellamyhonda" and "buyasuzuki". He also made the comment that he was at the altar one time praying and he had one guy on one arm saying hold on brother hold on. Another guy was on his other arm saying let go brother let go. He said he looked at one of them and said do you want me to hold on and looked at the other one and said or do you want me to let go? Which is it? 😆😆😆😆 He was so bad...lol
Wow. We couldn't wear jewelry, shorts, attend movie theaters, go to the beach, wear shorts sleeves, etc the women could not cut their hair, have corn braids, we had to get permission to go to another church, we had to call in if we were going to miss a service....I didn't change my faith. I just modified my belief system
Especially that now there’s Faith Based movies made🎉The Father had put a ring on the prodigal Son / King Yeshua(Jesus) wears a crown of jewels / The Bride Of Christ is decked out / it’s all man made rules for control of $$$...
Wow! Sounds like my experience. The only giving you could do was a continuous circle. People never have enough left over to raise your own family which came last, and still give outside there circle. Thanks for Sharing.
One of my good friends attends a UPC church. At one point her and her husband decided to start their own side business. The pastor was very upset that they had not consulted him first. He said that this wasn't going to give them much time do work for the church. Another time my friend planned a Christian skate night at the skating rink. She invited several local UPC churches. And a few Christian friends that were not UPC. The first month tons of people showed up. The next time less than half the people showed up. She found out that the pastor of the big UPC church wouldn't let his people attend. She never found out why he did this.
Wow. How controlling...and yet, not that surprising. That's the sad part.
Sounds like a dictator, sad these so called ministers are like this.
Jealousy!!! And because He didn't have control plain and simple. I witnessed this so many times
Pathetic...robbing the youth of clean fun😢
Enjoyed the video! You both do great work!😀
Thanks so much! 😊
I was fourth generation apostolic and I was able to leave
Thanks Ralph & Deanna Jo!!!!!!
I can't stop watching these videos. Requesting prayer for my addiction 🙏 😆 🤣 😂
Haha, glad you're enjoying them!
I love both of your channels.. Both have been very helpful in my journey. Thank you both. I loved it when Ralph mentioned that when you leave a cult, there's this marked moment when you come in and leave. In healthy churches that doesn't happen. Wow! So true.
My former pastor is like best friends with Tony Spell!! I went to my former church for 6 years and I wasn't staying a minute longer.
The Pastors wife told me when my mother died that people she knew who gave everything they had to the church moved forward with God. AND then when she thought i had had enough and was leaving she told me other people doing the same thing sometimes got sick and died early and were afflicted. The hair had to be exact . And my daughter at 12 work a long sleeved shirt swimming in the lake in the middle of July. During some church services the pastor would pass around a baby wipe and all the young girls had to wipe it on their face to see who would dare to try make up
Wow! How inappropriate! What she said to you was spiritual abuse, plain and simple. I'm sorry you dealt with that. Unfortunately it is a common control tactic used in unhealthy legalistic churches of many different denominations. The passing around of the baby wipe...how ridiculous! Unhealthy boundaries.
It’s like placing a curse for leaving...you’re leaving the organization not The Lord 😢
Wow!!! I left the apostolic/pentecostal church several years ago. Since then, I have learned so much of God's grace, love, and mercy. We are saved through his blood and love.
Some of these churches are so strict that even Jesus couldn't make it to heaven..... Truly Sad!!!!
I would love to share my wife and I story of being apart of/ leaving the ppc organization after 16 1/2 years.
Sorry to hear that these churches hurt this is disappointing to hear just know God loves you sometimes the best thing is to stay in prayer on your kneeshave you ever heard the song sometimes it takes a mountain holy ghost radio listen to that may God talk to your heart I have listened to your storybecause if I ever have my own church I don't want to ever turn anyone away I don't want to make the same mistakes other people I'm not perfect we go to a Pentecostal Church we've had problems but but I take them on my knees to God. Listen to the song sometimes it takes a mountain. May God help you and bless you and all your struggles
My husband isn’t understanding. I left an horrible upc church I was at for 32 years. I should have taken time for myself. I jumped into another upc church. My husband keeps arguing that they don’t force you to do standards or give, etc. ugh, he isn’t getting that it shouldn’t be required in the first place.
Hi! Who are the authors of the books that he mentioned? I would love to read them. I’m 15 and I was put into a Pentecostal church at the age of 10. Lately I’ve started doing more research on this “religion” and have found no scriptures to back up their standards of holiness or steps to salvation. I’ve told my dad that I don’t believe in it. But he won’t let me leave because my grandparents are our pastors and he believes they will cut him out of their lives if we end up going to another church. I’m so heartbroken that I’m having to waste my teen years on something I don’t believe in or stand for and that I’m not getting the relationship with God that I need.
I'm sorry to hear that Anna. I understand how hard it is as a teen to keep standards you don't believe to be Biblical. You can maintain your own relationship with God by reading and studying for yourself to know Him better and spending some time in prayer. It's sad that your family feels that way...it's too bad you couldn't talk your dad into allowing you to attend another church's youth group (along with your UPC church) and maybe convince him to loosen the standards just a little bit? Maybe that would be a bit of a compromise. I know this isn't an easy situation.
If you check out the description box under the video I listed the books and authors as well as links Ralph's blog. Another book you might enjoy is "Free: From Legalism to Grace Breaking out of the United Pentecostal Church" by Jennifer Brewer
www.amazon.com/Free-Legalism-Breaking-United-Pentecostal/dp/1087259134
Responsible Faith Thank you! I’ll definitely check out that book too! I’ve just recently started praying and reading the Bible on my own, and reading the book of John has helped put my faith back in God. I still struggle with questioning the church we go to because they really enforced the idea that it’s rebellious to question them. I just can’t believe that God would stop loving or send someone to hell for what they wear, how they look or if they don’t follow Pentecostal’s “salvation” steps. Seeing if I can compromise with my dad sounds like a good idea though, thank you so much for your help!
GOD forbid if UPC members found the truth that the early New Testament Believers were never baptized in Jesus Name/didn’t exist/the Letter J was not in the Hebrew alphabet and the name Jesus has only been around since the last 400 years and UPC was formed 1946 ... Yeshua is the Aramaic Hebraic Name the Book Of Acts used...Jesus is derived from Greek Zeus...
I grieve for those who make these videos because in their stance against the strict holiness standards of the UPCI they inadvertently are keeping seekers from visiting and learning the only Bible proven plan of salvation.
They also fail to mention that UPCI and other pentecostal churches are not strictly enforcing the holiness standards as the did years ago.
Yup, I was in the music ministry for 20years and music director for spanish apostolic church in southern California for about 10 years. I always battled with them when it to music selection or dress code plus many other things. After discovering truth about them I had to go it was tough but I was seeking God and God was not in that church.
It is so tough to leave. It always annoys me when they speak of those who leave as "taking the easy way out". The way most of those churches treat people who leave ensures there's nothing easy about it.
@@ResponsibleFaith Yup, I've ran into the people from my old church from time to time and they always never let me forget about past church issues. Instead of focusing on the present they always bring up the past. My closest friends are still apostolic, some understand and disagree about the apostolic legalism etc. but are too afraid to admit it they're institutionalized.
We have a Constitution that guarantees us our freedom in the US and Canadians have the Charter,yet people are so willing to give those freedoms up to high control religions!
The one man pastor system is not found in the NT. Why do people continue to use a man-made system?
Control ...😢
You know he's talking about the programs that the church he is going to now is involved in. When I was a young mother I can remember thinking how sad it was that I did consider myself a member of a couple of churches throughout my marriage and there were times when we had rough times but yet I had to go to the Catholic charities or St John the Divine at the Methodist Church to get help. I never understood why the Pentecostal Church didn't at least help its own when they were in need. But I guess that would have taken money out of the pastor's pockets. JS🤷
Exactly
Another great interview. Deanna Jo is on point. :)
Awesome video
I want to respond to your video . I go to a UPC in Indiana. I was raised in the church . I know what you are saying. All the people they have hurt. I have been hurt myself but it is not God's fault. That is people for you. But it does not change the Word Of God.. I left for a few years but came back recently. But I do cut my hair and wear pants. I go now to serve God. People probably talk I go for God nobody else. I want to make heaven no matter what. They have to answer for what they have done. I could tell you a book on what my husband and I went thru .
Most likely UPC sisters wear pajamas pants in bed...and trim a few split dead ends of dried hair... just dialoguing...BTW: Witches wear long hair thinking it draws magnetic power...
Never experienced the control level so sorry Ralph experienced such a controlling my goodness.my tongues are so real as well as my faith & experience hope he landed in another place with peace & balance still baptizing in Jesus Name glad the focus is in such love
What church is he talking about???
He went to an Independent Oneness ("Holiness") Pentecostal church.
I'm sorry to hear that you walked away from your faith in Christ and made bad choices. Sin certainly leaves scars. I've never heard of the Pentecostals of Richmond but did a quick google search and they appear to be UPCI (or something similar). In all honesty, you would be best to find a church that teaches the true gospel of grace and sit under some Biblical teaching. I believe in the power of the Holy Spirit but I also believe that more than "fire", we need solid teaching on the power of the gospel of Christ because that is where our foundation is built and is the power of God unto salvation. You could always look online, many congregations are livestreaming their services right now. It would give you a feel for what they believe and how they teach.
@@ResponsibleFaith I was wondering about Independent Apostolic Churches than being under UPC church authority.. seems a whole lot worse than I thought.
Unfortunately there's room for toxicity in all of them. Any church with a heavy emphasis on submission, authority, and rules (works based salvation) is dangerous in my opinion.
This is a another great interview. What I find interesting is the different reasons that people finally decide to leave this church or cult or whatever. Sio when Ralph first went to one of the services he thought it was so strange that he immediately left. To me, that is the most obvious red flag --the services are totally crazy! But isnt it strange that no one seems to eventually leave for that "obvious" reason. Its always some small irritating thing that grows and grows, until finally the "light come on" and the person leaves.
Yes, the services have even gotten more chaotic since I left 17 years ago (based on what I see online). I guess it's a different journey for those of us who were raised in it than people who join as adults. I have seen the services scare people away before.
I always had a very sweet departing moving to another church
I'm glad to hear you had a peaceful experience with changing churches.
The ministers of the WPF did not leave over the Affirmation Statement. The WPF was formed in the winter of 2007/2008 after the UPCI General Conference voted to allow advertising and ministry on television. I know this because we angered our prebyter by disaffiliating our church. Our pastor then sent his card to our District Superintendent.
The Affirmation Statement and the creation of the WPF were two distinct occurrences and should never be conflated.
Is your church a WPF church?
Hi everybody. Hope all are having a blessed day. I am on the verge of a panic attack. My UPC pastor keeps repeating like a clarion call "Rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubborness as the sin of idolatry and keeps talking about the body being the temple of the Holy Ghost and the usual clarion call of worldly music, worldly tv, etc. I am on the verge of mental collapse. I know hes talking and probably gossipping with his pastor friends about what I am going through. I struggle with tobacco and liking secular music. I am thinking of leaving the United Pentecostal Church and going to the United Methodist church. I know I am going to lose a lot of friends over this because they will gossip and say that See, that proves he is in rebellion!!!! Thank you for this channel. Though I speak the tongues of men and angels, but have not love in my heart, I am as a tinkling brass and clarion cymbal. That is the conclusion I have come to. I was raised in a church of God and after personal situations that I had when I went to where my parents were raised, I lost faith in mainstream churches and started a search which put me at first with the Mormons, than Seventh Day Adventists, than a church that had all the seven signs of spiritual abuse after the changes of doctrine "Worldwide Church of God". After that, I lost faith in fundamentalism and joined the Roman Catholic Church and experienced peace and healing that I never experienced before. I had a vibrant parish both in Georgia and Mississippi. I went to a less vibrant parish in another city, and (because I didnt want to hurt my mom- I still believed in God and still do to this day.) Bounced from church to church until I came to this place where somebody talked about his faith as a UPC person. Unfortunately, I bought it, hook, line, and sinker and became UPC. At first they love bombed me and I was just blown away. I felt like I was on cloud 9! But slowly the love bombing went away and the pastor had less and less time for me. The straw that broke the camels back was when a homeless person from my church recently had an altered personality even though he wasnt high on drugs he was "High" in the spirit. It scared the beejeebees out of me. Dont mean to criticize, it was just a scary encounter. I have always believed that there is a heavenly prayer language, in my granddad, but it certainly wasnt like what I saw in this dude. His was a peaceful and quiet prayer language. I am saddened because I know I will lose a lot of my support network. Please help me anyway you can. Blessings
Praying for you.
Sorry Tommy, sometimes I miss comments when they come in. I'm so sorry to hear you're struggling and being mistreated by your pastor. As far as secular music goes, I listen to some secular music as well (nothing filthy or anything), but I love an upbeat fun song or a good love song. As far as smoking goes, there is nothing in scripture that prohibits smoking, but we can all agree that it is a bad habit and one to be avoided for the sake of your health. Most people I know who smoke do wish to quit for that reason. I have never smoked before, but hear that it can be a very hard habit to break, my heart goes out to you. That all being said...we are saved through faith in Christ, not by the things we do/don't do. Smoking does not affect your salvation. It's not even a sin. If they're making a case against smoking based on it being unhealthy (and your body being the temple of the HS), they will also need to address all the obesity in their churches. Scripture actually mentions gluttony as a sin. If the United Methodist church has a kind pastor and a healthy environment, it would likely be a wise move for you. Attending church shouldn't be this stressful for a believer. If you lose your friends, they were never really your friends in the first place. A new start could give you peace and an opportunity to make true friends. I hope you can find some peace in this situation.
Try not to over stress/ it’s not the end for you in fact it’s a great opportunity to discover Yeshua Jesus according to scripture through the lenses of Holy Spirit and not UPC legalistic lenses...Blessings
Those scriptures are so over stated /rebellion & witch craft... read the whole content and see what it really means ..UPC uses it as a guilt trip...
Any time UPC members walk inside Malls there’s worldly music playing/in restaurants / Stores /coffee shops etc.. it’s a form of enticing shoppers to spend money... just dialoguing
Did anybody ever tell you if women cut their hair angels won't watch over them anymore? Because I've had United Pentecostal people tell me that and I've tried to figure out if you stop cutting your hair would angels watch over you again
I'm not United Pentecostal but I have some family that are and I've been to church with them
Yes I have heard that but it's not Biblical. I made a video where I address that teaching. There is no correlation in scripture between angels watching over you and a woman cutting her hair. The idea comes from a very imaginative interpretation of 1 Cor 11.
ruclips.net/video/rZYvt9QSy30/видео.html
Geez that’s not fair for Chemo female patients and alopecia females😢 Not True we all have a Guardian Angel Save or Unsaved /GOD is merciful ❤
I really appreciate all these testimonies. I didn’t grow up UPC but so many things are similar....
“We loved ourselves and if you came into our bubble we loved you...” 🥺 💔
That's the FIRST experience I was asked in charismatic church in Bangor Maine,if I had ever spoke in tongues ,she was late 50-early 60 it puzzled me as I was there to learn what the pastor preaching study that ,I replied No I have written in it , 1/2 year later my things were being stolen from my residence by Religion cults , I filed complaints with owners of rental units now I have a long history false Arrest ,false hospitalizations .God bless your utube videos,I feel a holy church is part of Pentecostal believing I know that's God secret blessings to his true follower's it hold deliverance and anointings , healings was were I was healed on live stream video it didn't heal me completely I had a painful walking on my leg ,I was not delivered from pain hurt against the evilness that attacked me ,when I would have at my church ,😷🕊️
I actually listened to Post-Traumatic Church Syndrome. 👂🏻 Very interesting.
Just a quick comment about speaking in tongues. The Bible speaks of Tongues of men, Tongues of Angels , other tongues, new tongues. I Corinthians 14:2 says For one who speaks in a tongue speaks not to men but to God; for no one understands him, but he utters mysteries in the Spirit. I used to wonder about these same sounding sounds as well til I did some study and heard teachers like Perry Stone. Also there are groanings which can’t be uttered in Romans 8. I have spoken in tongues known and unknown. It’s real. I used to attend a UPC church occasionally as well. I ended up leaving because of the silly hair issues. They stress long hair yet 95% of the women have put their hair up in these tight buns and it makes it look short. That’s ludicrous. How can the hair be a covering if it’s so tight and up. Things like that makes no sense to me. I am now in a very balanced spirit filled church that teaches grace and mercy. God bless you all.
Lol all of his stories were so crazy because I could relate a lot! I laughed and remember how the day I got baptized I got in trouble for trying to do it in basketball shorts. I felt they were modest they were long and baggy I still didn’t fully understand the skirt thing. I was confused on why I got in trouble but I just went along with it 😂
I'm glad you found it relatable Marlene. It's always interesting to me how different our experiences all were...but how many common threads were in them that made them similar.
Geez had to be fussed at when it should of been a celebratory day 😢Talk about being cheated 😢Sorry BTW: you were actually dressed modest...I’m a Former Oneness UPC/ Whom The Son sets Free is Free indeed ❤
I would like to hear you talk doctrine. Oneness vs Trinity. Eternal Security vs loosing salvation. Acts 2:38 vs believe and repent. I have seen a lot of people leave the Oneness organizations and mainly all they talk about is standards. That would be the last reason I would leave any church. I would have to know that doctrine is incorrect.
My next video interview does talk a bit more about doctrinal stances. If dress standards (the way holiness groups enforce them) would not be enough to make you leave a church, I can only assume you are a man.
I will say many who leave these groups do begin their questioning by noticing the absence of some of these standards/rules in scripture and that becomes the jumping off point for their willingness to look at other beliefs (such as eternal security, salvation through faith alone vrs the 3-step plan of salvation, the godhead...). The focus of my channel is not to debate doctrines like eternal security, as you can find many RUclips videos by scholars debating these topics...my focus tends to center around spiritual abuse.
Thanks for the reply I have watched debates over and over but I just want to see it from a former Oneness person standpoint.. I just want to be correct. I have people I love in both camps. The only thing I fear is God and his eternal judgement.
I have people I love in both camps too. Honestly, as a believer I don't fear eternal judgement because Jesus already took my punishment and gave me his righteousness. When God looks at me...he doesn't see my sins and flaws, he see's the perfection and righteousness (right standing) of Jesus. If we have placed our faith in him and are trusting in him alone as our means of eternal life, we are saved and have nothing to fear. Of course my love for him will lead me to want to avoid sin and live a life that's pleasing to him, but I don't have to live in fear that he's sitting up there waiting to catch me in a human moment of stupidity to take away the gift he gave me. Eternal security is something that has been debated for centuries and I honestly don't think it matters (to our salvation) where we stand on that issue.
I do understand where you're coming from...diligently trying to get your doctrine exactly correct. It's admirable and something I'm pursuing as well...but can border on unhealthy if we fixate on it too much. In the UPC we were taught that it was our special correct doctrine that made us holy and saved us (while damning the majority of the rest of Christianity) and so in turn it made us obsessed with holding the correct doctrinal position on everything. In my opinion, nobody has it all figured out. We are just people with varying levels of academic understanding trying to sort through a book that has passed down through centuries, has human fingerprints all over the translations, and we just now (in the last 50 years or so) as lay people, have access to the original Greek, Hebrew and Aramaic translations for words and some of the idioms that were used. It's like a beautiful puzzle that well never complete but the joy is in the attempt. It's sad to me how much fear the UPC has layered in to this quest. I do believe many of their teachings to be heretical and yet they are the ones who are firmly set in their beliefs and not "on a quest". I think trying to remain teachable is important. I believe that God knows we're doing our best and it's not correct doctrine that "saves us", it's faith in Christ. I hope that makes sense. Just my views on it. God bless you on your quest.
Yeshua said in Scripture/ Abide In Me / saved by Grace Through Faith/ Believe His Word / Wash in the Blood Of The Lamb ❤
Another great video and again one I can so relate to. I knew a young lad( he has since passed away) but he attended an Apostolic church in my home province of NB. He started working for the mill. After a bit, some worldly boys got after him to try cigarettes and like all of us we start out by refusing but sooner or later for some the pressure is too much and we give way to temptation. Now maybe for this young land, maybe the one time try would have cured the curiosity, we'll never really know because the pastor had his spies. The young lad was reported and then called into the pastor's office. After admitting to the offence the response from the pastor was, that if he was going to try it once he might as well go all out and just start smoking. There was for a short time that my mum and I attended this particular church. One time I was walking to up to the church with some other girls but I was the only one carrying my hat. As I approached the church the elder pastor commented with a laugh that he thought at first he saw in the distance a UPCer. I could comment more but you get the jest.
Wow that's bizarre, I live by one rule, never let a man rule you. Blessings
What is the name of his blog?
His blog is called Divide the Word: dividetheword.blog/
He also has a RUclips channel: ruclips.net/channel/UCzkKwN9MKAkV-JLNbJvqWhQ
İnteresting viedo and very vell balanced You may have left the church system but do you still believe in the Acts 2.38 vay of Salvation or can or is one noü saved in faith.in Christ alone?
I believe we are saved by faith in Christ alone.
Acts 2 38 is true Gospel doctrine but without love we are nothing some many churches have this problem I still love God his faithful 🙏💕🙏🙏🙏
And what church did Rick say he went to? Apparently I missed all of the myths that went on in the nineties because I stopped going to church on a regular basis when I graduated high school from the private church school I was at in 1982. By the time I came back to go to church full-time in 2005 everything had changed. Preachers had left the organization in droves. I decided to start attending a non-denominational church that had been started by a former Pentecostal pastor which I just loved, but upon moving back from Tennessee to years ago it's already gotten so big that I feel like a minnow in the crowd. So I'm going to the Baptist Church with my mother-in-law. It's not any smaller but my grandkids love the Sunday school department and the awana's group. I usually sit out in the lobby and listen to my pastor that I had in Tennessee who was referred to me by the church down here that I had gone to that I just mentioned. yeah I'm just like what in the heck happened. I come back to church and nothing is the same in the UPC organization.
Speaking in tongues is not salvation. Just because people never hear others speak in tongues all of the time doesn't necessarily mean anything wrong.
Even Mennonites believe in beards and women can paint their nails and use internet ect....
Thank you for talking about speaking in tongues! It always felt disingenuous to me too!
Do you sell the hat you’re wearing?
I don't as of right now. I have had people ask, so I might have to look into it in the near future.
For a love offering of just $500, Deanna Jo will send you one of these hats! ;)
Haha...too funny! Roll out the old "televangelist exploitation tactics"! In all honesty, I may look into some logo merch at some point but I can guarantee that a hat would not cost $500! Nobody "loves" me that much except maybe my mom!
♥️😆♥️
I’d buy one. :)
Well, things is, be careful of all that you say. God is listening. Do not spew words that damage..I did find this out the hard way. Just pray and tell God your concerns. Do not murmer..don't injur with your angry words..you will so much regret it.
Thank you all for this and I appreciate each point made. I hope that the one's that come on here to hate will see how close to God that you all are and so very wise. Thank you again. When we stepped up to our exit the pastor had the nerve to tell my husband that his rebellion is the reason i am suffering from serious health issues. I think that was one of the points of anger that I have getting passed.
I'm so sorry your previous pastor said that to your husband. I don't know why some people get so hateful...I guess losing control will do it to them. I hope you're having some good days (health-wise). I can totally understand how that would make you angry! So manipulative.
@@ResponsibleFaith thanks much...and still going through tests but nothing too negative so far! One day at a time. 🙂
Church starts at home/Scripture reads when there’s 2 or 3 gather in my name I (The Lord ) am in your midst❤According to the Book Of Revelation The True Apostolic Church (Ecclesia the called out assembly) reads///The True Church Of The Living GOD are those whose Robes are WASH in the Blood Of The Lamb ❤
Poor guy was definitely in a cult
Yes exploiting the funerals was terrible!
Re: FATHER JESUS RETURNING SOON SAITH BELIEVE YE NOT THAT I AM GOD & YE WILL DIE IN YOUR SINS! JOHN 8 24 REPENT & BE BAPTIZED EVERY ONE OF YOU IN THE NAME OF CHRIST FOR THE REMISSION OF SINS & YE SHALL RECEIVE THE GIFT OF THE HOLY GHOST!! FATHER JESUS RETURNING SOON!
I don’t mean this in any type of manner other than concern but I really think u need to be careful about how far u go with this. People in churches make mistakes. They are human and ppl will let you down. That being said, the word of God is true the doctrine the apostolic doctrine is true and u just should be careful not to fall OUT of LOVE with truth. Dangerous ground you are on
Ralph and I both left our groups in pursuit of Christ...that is never dangerous ground.
Responsible Faith agreed completely. I guess having never experienced anything like that I became judgmental and I apologize. I listened to Mary’s story and dug a little further into that mans background, although I do respect the office he was in no matter how he got there, he really scared me and I can’t imagine sitting under that for even 5 minutes much less years. Nothing he did said was supported by the word of God Love and prayers ❤️
They are not falling out of love with the Lord, they are falling out from extreme legalism and fear. They are on solid ground with Christ and rightly dividing the Word of Truth, and not living by errors and man made rules. Yes, people are not perfect, but it its spiritually abusive, they do NOT have to stay in it to please others. God tells you to leave an environment like that, you leave. Dont owe a controlling church anything but to love them, and live for the Lord in a real, Christlike environment.
The True Apostolic Church (Ecclesia The called out assembly) According to the Book Of Revelation///The True Church Of The Living GOD are those whose Robes are WASH in the Blood Of The Lamb ❤ not brick or mortar not an institution or organization... just dialoguing
FATHER JESUS DO NOT FORSAKE.....
BE NOT APOSTATE.....
Re: FATHER JESUS RETURNING SOON SAITH BELIEVE YE NOT THAT I AM GOD & YE WILL DIE IN YOUR SINS! JOHN 8 24 REPENT & BE BAPTIZED EVERY ONE OF YOU IN THE NAME OF CHRIST FOR THE REMISSION OF SINS & YE SHALL RECEIVE THE GIFT OF THE HOLY GHOST!! FATHER JESUS RETURNING SOON!
Actually the name is Father Yeshua/ Letter J was not in the Hebrew alphabet/ and early New Testament Bible Christian Believers were never baptized in Jesus Name that name didn’t exist it was in Yeshua’s Name the Aramaic Hebraic roots ... Jesus is derived from the Greek Name Zeus ... and only been in use since 400 years ago...just dialoguing/ BTW: I have been baptized Acts 2:38 but Holy Spirit conviction to do it according to original name/Heavenly Name given by The Almighty Creator Father GOD❤