Currently in aviaton mechanics school, on regulations right now. Guess this is a good lesson as to why ADs and EADs should be researched and followed. Thank you for sharing.
Definitely. As an owner I keep track of recurring ADs, but this has made me step back and take a deeper dive on all the single instance ADs that have been complied with to make sure there’s nothing else like this that I should watch out for.
The Saf-Air web site clearly calls out the issue with the Piper Arrow. Whenever someone performs improper maintenance or repair on an airplane, it can create a hazard. I had a significant oil leak (6 quarts in 1.5 hours) on my Skylane years ago. It was due to an A&P who didn’t confirm that the oil filter gasket had come off with the old filter and ended up double gasketing the filter. Well, two gaskets won’t contain the oil pressure and I landed after a 1.5 hour flight with oil all over the belly of the airplane. Somewhat disconcerting and took nearly a full day to clean up.
I will be sending this to my mechanic. I have an Arrow that was on the assembly line with yours. I have an unknown oil leak or auto-undercoating. I do not have those placards on my engine mount.
Thanks for the heads up. Quick drain oil plugs seem crazy on an airplane. There has to be a better way to just not make a mess, and use a conventional drain plug. Maybe cover the gear, etc with a trash bag. Too risky for a little convenience.
I really like this F-50 plug because it has the cap which stops any leaks the might get past the o-rings, but more importantly. The valve can’t open until you screw the bottom piece on that the hose is attached to. Keeps it clean, but also some redundant safety. I definitely don’t like the ones that do not lock in the closed position.
This is crazy. Thank you for sharing. Something so small that could have caused engine failure and perhaps a serious accident. Mine doesn’t have one but I was actually thinking of getting one and now I know the deal.
Yeah, and to think that if i had not had that "something's not right about this" moment when I put the new p5000 on, I would have just taken it up flying and that would have ended in disaster. And honestly, if i had not had to fight to open the one that was on there, I don't know that I would have had that thought. Scary how close I came to destroying the engine and very likely the airplane (and myself).
those quick oil drains can kill you. in this case it did. The oil quick drain on the engine oil sump was found to be leaking, even though it was in the closed position. Examination of the oil quick drain revealed that it was discolored and that the O-rings were melted, indicating that the oil quick drain had been exposed to a high heat condition. Further examination of the area around the oil quick drain revealed the presence of soot on the bottom of the oil sump downstream of the No. 2 cylinder where the engine’s left side exhaust pipe was separated from the exhaust collector. Additional examination of the exhaust system indicated that the left exhaust pipe was a slip fit design and that no exhaust pipe clamp was present. This evidence indicated that the source of the thermal distress event was most likely an exhaust system leak that impinged on the oil quick drain, melting the O rings and resulting in the oil draining from the engine and subsequently igniting. A review of the operating temperatures associated with the engine indicated that the exhaust gas temperature was hot enough to exceed the upper limit of the temperature specifications of the oil quick drain and was also hot enough to ignite the oil. This ultimately resulted in the in-flight fire and led to the pilot’s subsequent loss of airplane control. data.ntsb.gov/carol-repgen/api/ ... 103266/pdf
Good info. Thanks for sharing. I’ve decided that the only type of quick drain I will use on any aircraft is a two part system like the one I have on the arrow. That way, if the o rings fail, the cap keeps it closed. Also any oil on the inside of the cap will let me know when rings are starting to fail.
i.e. it nolonger a quick drain as you must remove a cap and instal a spout with a howe on it to make sure the oil goes in the bucket. Remember years back when after an oil change at KMWC a piper aerow made a fourced landing fourtunally at 02C.
Very interesting. I'm kind of surprised that an oil quick drain would be approved for use in certified aircraft (or any aircraft for that matter) that didn't have a positive close position. Everyone understands how critical oil is in an engine. That raised my eyebrows! Hey, I saw a Velocity at my airport getting an annual. I got to speak to the owner. That's a really nice plane. The only thing that seemed odd about it was it's landing characteristics. He said you have to fly it all the way down, because the canards stall before the wing and the nose drops. Given that I'd stick with a Vans. If I ever sell my plane I'll build an RV-10 or RV-9A.
Rotax appears to discourage the use of quick drains on their oil tanks and I am debating whether to just invest in a siphon pump and remove most of the oil that way before removing the stock drain plug and getting oil all over the firewall and engine mount. I wish Rotax had provided a much better drain system given where most of their oil tanks get mounted.
@@BlueSkyFlight I have no idea. I suspect they simply don’t want to take the time to test different quick drains and the easy legal solution is to simply say they can’t be used. My airplane is a homebuilt, so I can use whatever I want, however, I generally try to stay close to generally accepted practices and manufacturers recommendations.
thanks for the video, my plane does not have retractable gear so no issue there... but i do have another question, I just got my P5000 today from Aircraft Spruce and noticed it has no crush washer..... I dont see one even listed on the Saf-Air website for the P5000. Any insight on what to do would be greatly appreciated! I fly a Maule MXT-7-180 with a Lycoming O-360
Check with your A&P, but mine suggested a very small amount of ProSeal around the threads to create a nice gasket like seal when I screwed it in place and it cured. Seems to be working well
Currently in aviaton mechanics school, on regulations right now.
Guess this is a good lesson as to why ADs and EADs should be researched and followed.
Thank you for sharing.
Definitely. As an owner I keep track of recurring ADs, but this has made me step back and take a deeper dive on all the single instance ADs that have been complied with to make sure there’s nothing else like this that I should watch out for.
That was very informative, glad you caught it and for explaining about it in a very calm manner
Glad you enjoyed it! Thanks so much for watching
The Saf-Air web site clearly calls out the issue with the Piper Arrow. Whenever someone performs improper maintenance or repair on an airplane, it can create a hazard. I had a significant oil leak (6 quarts in 1.5 hours) on my Skylane years ago. It was due to an A&P who didn’t confirm that the oil filter gasket had come off with the old filter and ended up double gasketing the filter. Well, two gaskets won’t contain the oil pressure and I landed after a 1.5 hour flight with oil all over the belly of the airplane. Somewhat disconcerting and took nearly a full day to clean up.
What a mess I’m sure. Yes I saw that on their site after the fact. It was a learning moment for sure
I will be sending this to my mechanic. I have an Arrow that was on the assembly line with yours. I have an unknown oil leak or auto-undercoating. I do not have those placards on my engine mount.
Let me know what he thinks and also what your leak turns out to be.
Thanks for the heads up. Quick drain oil plugs seem crazy on an airplane. There has to be a better way to just not make a mess, and use a conventional drain plug. Maybe cover the gear, etc with a trash bag. Too risky for a little convenience.
I really like this F-50 plug because it has the cap which stops any leaks the might get past the o-rings, but more importantly. The valve can’t open until you screw the bottom piece on that the hose is attached to. Keeps it clean, but also some redundant safety.
I definitely don’t like the ones that do not lock in the closed position.
Quick drains installed and used properly are very reliable. Almost every issue with them is due to improper use or maintenance.
This is crazy. Thank you for sharing. Something so small that could have caused engine failure and perhaps a serious accident. Mine doesn’t have one but I was actually thinking of getting one and now I know the deal.
Yeah, and to think that if i had not had that "something's not right about this" moment when I put the new p5000 on, I would have just taken it up flying and that would have ended in disaster. And honestly, if i had not had to fight to open the one that was on there, I don't know that I would have had that thought. Scary how close I came to destroying the engine and very likely the airplane (and myself).
those quick oil drains can kill you. in this case it did.
The oil quick drain on the engine oil sump was found to be leaking, even though it was in the closed position. Examination of the oil quick drain revealed that it was discolored and that the O-rings were melted, indicating that the oil quick drain had been exposed to a high heat condition. Further examination of the area around the oil quick drain revealed the presence of soot on the bottom of the oil sump downstream of the No. 2 cylinder where the engine’s left side exhaust pipe was separated from the exhaust collector. Additional examination of the exhaust system indicated that the left exhaust pipe was a slip fit design and that no exhaust pipe clamp was present. This evidence indicated that the source of the thermal distress event was most likely an exhaust system leak that impinged on the oil quick drain, melting the O rings and resulting in the oil draining from the engine and subsequently igniting. A review of the operating temperatures associated with the engine indicated that the exhaust gas temperature was hot enough to exceed the upper limit of the temperature specifications of the oil quick drain and was also hot enough to ignite the oil. This ultimately resulted in the in-flight fire and led to the pilot’s subsequent loss of airplane control.
data.ntsb.gov/carol-repgen/api/ ... 103266/pdf
Good info. Thanks for sharing. I’ve decided that the only type of quick drain I will use on any aircraft is a two part system like the one I have on the arrow. That way, if the o rings fail, the cap keeps it closed. Also any oil on the inside of the cap will let me know when rings are starting to fail.
i.e. it nolonger a quick drain as you must remove a cap and instal a spout with a howe on it to make sure the oil goes in the bucket. Remember years back when after an oil change at KMWC a piper aerow made a fourced landing fourtunally at 02C.
It’s still pretty quick. :) and definitely better and cleaner than a standard drain plug…
It is still a quick drain. It is much faster than removing a conventional plug and then cleaning up the mess afterwards.
Very interesting. I'm kind of surprised that an oil quick drain would be approved for use in certified aircraft (or any aircraft for that matter) that didn't have a positive close position. Everyone understands how critical oil is in an engine. That raised my eyebrows!
Hey, I saw a Velocity at my airport getting an annual. I got to speak to the owner. That's a really nice plane. The only thing that seemed odd about it was it's landing characteristics. He said you have to fly it all the way down, because the canards stall before the wing and the nose drops. Given that I'd stick with a Vans. If I ever sell my plane I'll build an RV-10 or RV-9A.
I agree about the drain. Thanks for the info on the Velocity - wasn't aware of that.
Rotax appears to discourage the use of quick drains on their oil tanks and I am debating whether to just invest in a siphon pump and remove most of the oil that way before removing the stock drain plug and getting oil all over the firewall and engine mount. I wish Rotax had provided a much better drain system given where most of their oil tanks get mounted.
What is their reason for discouraging?
@@BlueSkyFlight I have no idea. I suspect they simply don’t want to take the time to test different quick drains and the easy legal solution is to simply say they can’t be used. My airplane is a homebuilt, so I can use whatever I want, however, I generally try to stay close to generally accepted practices and manufacturers recommendations.
Makes sense
thanks for the video, my plane does not have retractable gear so no issue there... but i do have another question, I just got my P5000 today from Aircraft Spruce and noticed it has no crush washer..... I dont see one even listed on the Saf-Air website for the P5000. Any insight on what to do would be greatly appreciated! I fly a Maule MXT-7-180 with a Lycoming O-360
Check with your A&P, but mine suggested a very small amount of ProSeal around the threads to create a nice gasket like seal when I screwed it in place and it cured. Seems to be working well
@@BlueSkyFlight So seems this 1/2 NPT is tapered and just like the original plug, it does not need any sealant. Im testing it without sealant