Thank you for adding Latin and English subtitles and even bigger thank you for not separating them into Latin and English but rather having both side by side separated by a slash! I'm only a beginner at Latin so both the Latin and the English subtitles were a tremendous help to me! Great video!
Hi! Thanks for your comment! You are very welcome. I have debated in the past separating the subtitles into Latin or English to choose, but I was especially afraid that if someone only saw Latin, or English, they wouldn't know the other was available. Plus, as you say, it's a useful tool to compare the two! If you have questions while you are learning, please feel free to ask them on the ScorpioMartianus Facebook page and the growing community there, if not myself, will be very happy to help!
ScorpioMartianus haha I must be the most antisocial nerd ever because I'm now contemplating joining Facebook ONLY for that reason haha ;) If you'll be adding subtitles to any future videos, please don't change that Latin/English format! If they were separate, I'd have to switch between them every few seconds. And even for learners more advanced than me, I don't think having both languages on screen at the same time would be too inconvenient, while for others like me it's a tremendous help ;)
I shall keep the format the same in that case! Thanks for the input! And if not the ScorpioMartianus Facebook, you can also ask me questions publicly on Twitter, which other members of the Latin speaking community will also see and happily help with. We are a growing and very friendly community, wherever you find us!
I have also just finished adding all the long vowel marks (a laborious but worthwhile process, especially because I made the effort to pronounce them all clearly in the video! :D ), which I hope will be of additional use for students.
This video is so helpful. Spanish is my second language, and I am studying Latin to broaden my understanding of Romance languages. I struggle to comfortably say Latin words without the flat sounding Spanish vowels so I like to revisit this video help express those long vowels better.
I love your channel. In Portuguese (Brazilian Portuguese), I could identify 13 vowel sounds. It's so pleasant to listen to you pronouncing Latin. Most of them are exactly the same sound in Latin.
Conheci seu canal faz pouco tempo, estou adorando. É muito interessante escutar as palavras que consigo reconhecer sendo uma brasileira que fala un pó di italiano.
Thank you for adding English subtitles, that is very helpful! There was only one error in the English subtitles at 4:31, but it is a negligible one which I managed to resolve :) At any rate, this is a very informative video that helps me understand Latin pronunciation.
Thank you for posting in latin, and having the latin and english side by side. Learning it in Latin helps exercise my Latin listening comprehension, and my Latin writing, as I take my notes in Latin; which I'm able to do thanks to the ingenuity of "Lingua Latina Per Se Illustrata". As a matter of fact, my Latin teacher (if I'm remembering correctly) is a student of your. His name is Sandy Hughes, if that rings any bells.
I wonder wether the Romans were able to pronounce the greek sound Y. That vowel doesn’t exist in all the romance languages. It exists in French, but because of the germanic (the Frankish tribes) influence. And both in French and Spanish, the letter Y is called ‘greek i’ (i grec, i griega). So I suspect the roman common people pronounced that letter Y like an I.
As a native English speaker, I have a hard time pronouncing long vowels without overexaggerating the length. It's also hard for me to hear the difference even though I know the difference.
I seem to recall you having made a more recent video saying that in actuality, the Latin E was always “open,” and that the “closed” form was a typical modern Italian mispronunciation...?
I love your videos. You’re the only one who makes totally video in Classical Latin. If I could I will continue the comment in Italian (I’m Italian), as I saw you can also understand Romance languages. Mi permetto di fare una piccola digressione sulla pronuncia della I e della U latina. Ho letto recentemente che, quando si presentano queste due vocali brevi soprattutto all’interno di parole la pronuncia diventa rispettivamente [ɪ] per la I, mentre [ʊ] per la U. Tuttavia, quando si presentano lunghe sono come nella lingua italiana. Spero che tu possa rispondermi in qualche modo e capisco che il video è abbastanza datato, purtroppo ti ho scoperto da poco grazie a “I love languages” con il tuo contributo per il Latino Classico. In ogni caso Valēt!
Bella domanda! Il concetto che [ɪ] e [ʊ] *devono* per forza esistere *mai* in latino è una teoria basata sull'evidenza delle lingue romanze e gli errori tipografici dell'Impero. Però, fino alla generazione del mio spreadsheet ( bit.ly/ranierilatinpronunciation ) nessuno ha cercato di definivamente precisare i periodi di cambiamento. Il fatto che i>e e u>o non vuol dire che devone avere una pronuncia particolare; guarda al η de greco che andava da /ε:/ > /i/ dall'antichità. Dunque, quando possiamo precisare il cambiamento della 'i'. Osserviamo i primi errori tipografici nel primo secolo d.C., e molti di più nel secondo secolo d.C.; la colonizzazione della Dacia (Romania) parte dal 107 fino al 275, quindi possiamo supporre che vari elementi del rumeno is presentavano nella lingua di molti abitanti dell'Italia nel 2° e 3° sec. E i rumeni hanno i>e, ma non u>o. Infatti u>o non appare prima del quarto secolo, dopo la fine della colonizzazione della Dacia Traiana. I rumeni anche ritengono la au, mentre in italiano au>o (p.e. orecchia
In the model I espouse here, which I no longer use, I recommend essentially what Italians do when they speak Latin. But it’s not especially correct for Classical Latin. It’s fine though.
I could be wrong, but it seems there is a mistake at around 4:30 or 4:36 or so. I think in the Latin subtitles it says closed, but the English says open. He seemed to be demonstrating closed.
Can you do a video of the accentuation rules of the short accent and long, I don't understand when we put the short accent, and I understand when we put the long accent, but I don't know, how many long accents we put in a word, for example with 2 accents, what we should do to intuit if a word has more than 1 accent. Thank you, Grātiās tibi āgō, Большое Спасибо.
Hi! So, the long mark, called a "macron," is not an "accent" mark - this terminology is very important. The difference between 'a' and 'ā' is that the long 'ā' is about twice as long in duration (in time) than the short 'a'. Long vowels are long by nature; they are different letters entirely. For example, what is the difference between я and а in Russian, or ё and о? It's a fundamental difference in the letter and its pronunciation. How do I know the word is spelled and pronounced яблоко and not аблоко ? I know because they are pronounced differently, and I learned the spelling when I learned the word. This is how we know the that "āra" (an altar) starts with a long 'ā' and not a short 'a' while "apis" (a bee) starts with a short 'a'.
This video helped me a lot, but I do still have a question about it: how come "bene" is pronounced /ˈbe.ne/ instead of /ˈbɛ.ne/ if the first syllable is a short accented one? Btw, there is a error in the subtitles at 4:30.
Grātiās maximās, magister, sed aliquibus nostrī eadem quaestiō est! In aliā pelliculā veteriōrī cōnfirmās (sequēns illīus Calabrese conclūsiōnem) linguam Latīnam quinque tantum vōcālēs habēre, id est modo versiōnem apertam /ɛ/ et /ɔ/; nunc autem novum et contrārium dīcis nē mentiōnem quidem faciēns… Quid mōvit hanc mūtātiōnem animī?
In another video you said that in the times of Cicero and Caesar the "e" was always open. When did it change and which way of pronouncing it is more accurate?
hac in pellicula demonstrare tibi optime contigit tantum quantitate inter se differre vocales breves et longas! In scholis Germanicis nulla quantitatis disctinctio. Facile et breve iter ad pravam pronuntiationem, ad rectam autem longum et difficile. Gratias tibi multas pro his pelliculis lepidissimis et utilissimis.
It’s not. It sounds as in English (that’s why English and German use h for the /h/ sound, because the alphabet and this letter’s sound are from Latin).
@ That is interesting because the course I’m learning at the moment says classical Latin H is silent and the V is pronounced as [w] but here I see you pronounced [h] and also [v], unless this is ecclesiastical Latin you’re pronouncing and teaching? Many thanks in advance for the clarification as I am still learning.
Ita. Malo hoc systema quod protulisti sed fortasse quia iam multos annos italice loquor ;) Ego quoque studui 'Vox Latina' ab Allen scriptum et puto eius interpretationem pronuntionis Classicae veram esse praeter interpretationem eius pronuntionis vocalium 'oe', ut iam olim te scripsi. Allen quoque dixit "the sound cannot have been very much different from...boy" sed iam mihi haec sententia dixit Allen non omnino persuasum fuisse. nescio, fortasse quia soni litterarum 'e' et 'i' mihi videntur valde similes atque quo in modo soni proditi sint. necesse est movere linguam paulatim et 'e' in 'i' et 'i' in 'e' mutatur. fortasse nolo pronuntiare 'oe' sicut 'oi' quia Romani, mea sententia, sicut Itali attenti fuerant et credo distinguere 'oe' et 'oi' potuisse. Sane, Allen peritior quam ego fuit et fortasse melius est mihi deponere hanc disputationem et facere id quod nunc facere possim! :)
Bonum est argumentum tuum! Neque ego omnino credo illi Sydney Allen, quoad "i" and "u" breves attinet (Romani ipsi scripserunt 'A, I, U eundem sonum habere vel longae vel breves'!) Ego tibi nuntiolum privatum scribam ut melius de hac re colloquamur! Gratias pro commentis tuis.
4:37 You pronounce vero, tenere, habevat with closed e. You said it's open when long and emphasized. I think the English translation is wrong because you say 'clause' in the Latin subtitle. Great videos!
Salve! nonnihil gaudii cepi ex pellicula ista lepidissima spectanda. at velim mihi dicas, unde scias de duplici e litterae qualitate? estne porro certissimum velut i litteram semper esse clausam? valeas.
Salve et tu, Chrissule! Gratias pro commento tuo. Ecce quaeque a grammatico scripta: [Pompei. Comm. ad Donat. Keil. v. V. p. 101.] "De istis quinque litteris 'a e i o u' tres sunt, quae sive breves sive longae ejusdemmodi sunt, a, i, u: similiter habent sive longae sive breves." Ibidem: "E aliter longa aliter brevis sonat" syllabis accentuatis. "Quotienscumque e longam volumus proferri, vicina sit ad 'i' litteram. Ipse sonus sic debet sonare, quomodo sonat 'i' littera. Quando dicis 'evitat,' vicina debet esse, sic pressa, sic angusta, ut vicina sit ad i litteram. Quando vis dicere brevem 'e' simpliciter sonat. O longa sit an brevis. Si longa est, debet sonus ipse intra palatum sonare, ut si dices orator, quasi intra sonat, intra palatum. Si brevis est debet primis labris sonare, quasi extremis labris, ut puta sic dices obit. Habes istam regulam expressam in Terentiano. Quando vis exprimere quia brevis est, primis labris sonat; quando exprimis longam, intra palatum sonat." Hae regulae quidem sunt eaedem atque Italicus sermo hodiernus. Itaque optimus est is exemplar nobis de qualitatibus vocalium; certissimus ergo sum saltem _nonnullos_ Romanos antiquos sic locutos esse. Si plus habebis quaestionum, quaeso hic interrogato! 😊
Outstanding! Your channel is what I've been seeking! We have a crisis in American speech patterning as letters are either being mispronounced or improperly articulated! It's causing a crisis in Numerology as each letter corresponds to a number. We misuse short and long vowels as we've become lazy in our speech along with a lack of proper phonetic education.
incredibilia audio "Y" Sunus barbarucus est, etiam solum in germanica lingua vocatus est nonne italica Quandum etiam restituta vel barbara pronutia nobis patiendam est?
SD. Iam antequam tuas, Luci, pelliculas vidi, non mediocriter de pronuntiatu latino et de quantitate vocalium cogitavi. Tu autem plus responsa das quam expectare poteram. Gratias ago et rogo pergas quod facis. Vale
Thanks for the comment. Actually this is a common misconception! It has been derived from a philological misunderstanding mostly promulgated by W. Sidney Allen in his otherwise wonderful book VOX LATINA. The evidence is strongly against this due to better philology these days. The Romans themselves clearly state there are seven vowel sounds in native Latin words, and that A I U are always the same irrespective of quality. Thus the vowel system of Italian is the correct model.
That sounds interesting. But about what epoque are we talking now? Because even the common reconstruction gives 7 vowel phonemes, in the 4th century: a, ɛ, e, i, ɔ, o, u. e and ɪ merged to e, o and ʊ merged to o. That makes perfectly sense to me. Do you know what is or where to find the strong evidence for the italian vowel system?
Here is the salient citation: [Pompei. Comm. ad Donat. Keil. v. V. p. 101.] De istis quinque litteris tres sunt, quae sive breves sive longae ejusdemmodi sunt, a, i, u: similiter habent sive longae sive breves. Also is the concept of phonotactics, the limits of possible sounds in a language. A people changes its vowel system qualities only over very long time scales. Thus you and I, an American and a German, both have /ɪ/ and /ʊ/ in our Germanic languages, despite their being separated by more than a thousand years of evolution. But these two sounds are *extremely* rare outside of the Germanic language family, and can be found in *none* of the Romance languages, including the more than 100 distinct languages (also called "dialects") alive in Italy today. This makes the presence of /ɪ/ and /ʊ/ in Latin exceedingly unlikely. The schwa, however, was certainly present in Latin in some speakers, and occurs in numerous Italian languages/dialects. The presumption the existence of /ɪ/ and /ʊ/ in Classical Latin (contrary to the Roman grammarians assertions, cited above) is derived only philologically by the fact that many /ɪ/ and /ʊ/ (but hardly all!) became /e/ and /o/ in some Romance languages. But there are as many exceptions to this "rule" as there are examples. Moreover, a change from /i/ directly to /e/ and /u/ directly to /o/ is equally possible. An intermediate step of /ɪ/ and /ʊ/ is not necessary, for which we can see Japanese. But I'll hold on to the Japanese example for now. :)
Just the fact that neither of these vowels occur in any of the descendants of latin doesn't mean anything. There is no germanic language with nasal vowels as far as I know, but nontheless they are reconstructed for proto Germanic. Every sound change has to be explained systematicly, that's why there's the term phonetic law. In fact short /i/ becomes systematicly /e/ with Sicilian being a systematic exception. This can not be explained under the assumption that long and short /i/ had the same quality because after the collaps of vowel length they would have to merge together, thus it is necessary to reconstruct different vowel qualities and the occasional spellings of for short /i/ give us a hint when that quality difference did come up. I would still like to know when and where this piece of text has been written. Especially the time is crucial to know. You have to consider that there's variety among different speakers. I woulnd't say that ɪ is that uncommon. It exists in French, in Québec tho, but it exists. I mean look up the wikipedia site of the near close near front unrounded vowel and you get a list of languages where it occurs. Typological arguments are bullshit most of the time imho.
Oh come on! Pompeius lived in the 5th or 4th century! This isn't evidence, this is a completely different time. And by the way, your "better philology these days" has been first published in 1868.
Luke, uma pergunta: a vogal "a" antes de m/n se pronuncia como o "ã" português ou como o "a" normal, como é em espanhol? Por exemplo, na palavra espanhola "capitán", o "a" de " tán" soa aberto (como um "a" normal), enquanto em português é capitão (se fosse sem o til seria pronunciado como capital). Os hispânicos tem dificuldade de pronunciar o ã português justamente por isso, pq o "a" antes do n/m para eles soa mais ou menos igual a um "a"" normal. Por isso quando eles falam "não" soa "nau" Resumindo minha pergunta: Romanus se pronuncia "románus" ou "romãnus"? Kkkk
@@um_internacionalista obrigada, amigo. Relendo meu comentário eu queria saber pq achei que daria certo escrever uma dúvida em português para um americano. Obrigada viu kkkkkkk eu de fato ainda tinha essa dúvida
Gratias! :) Here is how you can learn, the best textbook ever written! I have recorded the entire book in this playlist: ruclips.net/p/PLU1WuLg45SiyrXahjvFahDuA060P487pV
Semper peritissimus atque sapientissimus, care Amadeus, es! Nam haec opera quoque iucundissima ... contra veniam peto ob meam informem enuntiationem italicam, nescientem et longam-brevem et apertam-clausam vocalem litteram. Alphabetum italicum parvissimum omnium alphabetorum est, quia semper in mente italica voluntas magna facilius reddendi. Propter hanc italicam naturam mihi perdifficilis enuntiatio tua pulcherrima. Vale!
@@madjames1134 It's only nasalized like that in *Brazilian* Portuguese. Afaik, nasalization before N when N is on the onset of a syllable (começo de sílaba) is a feature unique to Brazilian Portuguese. Spanish, Italian and other varieties of Portuguese all lack this feature, so it'd make sense that Latin would too.
Isn't that pronunciation of "y" optional? I thought you said in one of your other videos (I forget which one; I just remember it was on your polymathy channel) that many Romans would not have been able to pronounce that foreign sound & would've just pronounced it like "u".
@@ScorpioMartianus In that case, call me lazy or erudite (which seems to be a favorite word of yours lol) or whatever, but I think I'll just opt for the "u" pronunciation; it's one thing making the effort in Greek; it's another thing transplanting phonemes where they don't feel natural, else I would totally do the German "ch" in "Bach" & break into a perfect French accent every other word I speak.
the captions with phoneme articulation marks really drives it home imo.... just wanted to learn how to read classical latin... and this video helped tremendously.
So, -um or -am is pronounced as -u: and -a: ? How about -n? Is it also having a kind of nasalisation or being muted? But emphasis is pronounced as emphasis as well, not ephasis. How come?
I'm so confused. Some places I look tell me that in classical pronunciation long and short vowels don't literally mean duration but actually sound different. For example, "ē" would sound like "date" and "e" would sound like bet. And others say that it's actually the duration that matters. Are there different opinions on this or am I just misunderstanding someone?
Think of geology. We have a very clear image of that the continents looked like 100 million years ago due to continental drift. But there is not perfect clarity when looking back that far.
Luci, ego tantum audiveram longitudinem vocalium qualitatem semper dictare. Ergo ō ē-que sint semper clausi, o e-que semper aperti. Quoque vocales i, y u breves habeant alias qualitates: ɪ, ʏ, ʊ. Tantum a et ā eamque qualitatem habeant. Sed pronuntiatus tuus, Luci mihi plus placetur et spero hoc fuisse pronuntiatus verum Romanorum temporum classicorum!
@@ScorpioMartianus Thanks! You might find this interesting: I'm in high school, and I've received an "independent study period" that I've been allowed to dedicate to Latin.
Hi! I have been checking your videos but I haven´t found any one with tipps or ways to learn the long vowels. I mean I have never taken care of the length of vowels. Now if I want to pronunce the long vowels when writting or speaking, how can I memorise them? Thanks in advance!
I watched the whole video only in Latin, but as a Brazilian wasn't had to understand. But them came to the comments and found out it have subs. I suffered without reason.
Salvē Lūcī, grātiās tibi prō pelliculīs tuīs, ūtilēs attractīvaeque sunt. Possīsne dē postclassicā prōnūntiātiōne linguæ latīnæ, quam Cōnstantīnus sīve Theodosius locūtī sint, pelliculam facere ? Quia nōn sciō num ut lingua prōto-rōmānica aut ut lingua latīna classica, aut ut aliquis aliud prōnūntiāta est. Grātiās tibi iterum agō, valē !
verba cum duabus aut tribus vocalibus longis semper mihi dificiliora sunt dictu. Etenim saepe ubi vocem augeo ad eas pronuntiandas in quoque verbo, me quemdam italianum loquentem videri puto, et comicum, iocosum est 😅🎶
Gratias tibi ago Luci quia pelliculae tuae praeclara sunt. Rectum tibi esse puto quod longitudines vocalium servanda sunt. Sed hoc difficillimum esse existimo, ut inter vocales longas brevesque recte distinguam.
macte virtute, carissime amice! His id unum addiderim, quod Priscianus in Partitionibus, 464-465k, 19 - 465-466, 8, de i brevi post v et f et ante d, t, m, r, x consonantes posita per vocalem /y/ pronuntianda docet: "omnis dictio a vi syllaba brevi incipiens, d vel t vel m vel r vel x sequentibus, hoc sono pronuntiatur, ut video videbam, videbo; quia in his temporibus vi corripitur, mutavit sonum in y; in praeterito autem perfecto et in aliis, in quibus producitur, naturalem servavit, ut vidi, videram, vidissem, videro. Similiter vitium mutat sonum quia corripitur, vita autem non mutat quia producitur; similiter vim mutat quia corripitur, vimen autem producitur ideoque non mutat; similiter vir et virgo mutant quia corripiuntur; virus autem et vires non mutant quia producuntur; vix mutat quia corripitur; vixi non mutat quia producitur. Hoc idem plerique solent etiam in illis dictionibus facere, in quibus a fi brevi incipiunt syllabae sequentibus supradictis consonantibus, ut fides, perfidus, confiteor, infirmus, firmus. Sunt autem qui non adeo hoc observant, cum de vi nemo fere dubitet". Haec dicendi consuetudo, quantum scio, haud traiecta est in seriorem vulgarem sermonem, quandoquidem hoc neque Itali facimus, nec Galloromani, neque Hispani, nec Dacoromani. Necesse est illam a sermone evanuisse ante Latinitatem quae dicitur vulgarem constitutam. Tu quid sentis, amice? Pronuntiatune nostro quod Priscianus docet adservandum censes annon?
Stephane Rhumakissime! Gratias pro commentis tuis. Bene novi haec de Prisciano, putoque eum affectum naturalem accidere nam, labris productissimis (ut Itali faciunt vocales U, etiamque Romani antiqui ut opinor), rapide labra in 'i' vocalem ut ponant non semper fieri licebat, itaque mixtura audiebatur attentissimis grammaticis inter U et I, id est Y. Modo nunc tibi privatim incisiunculas misi ut vocem meam 'vi'>'vy' tendendam audires.
I was confused on these 2 other videos, because they were opposing each other: ruclips.net/video/LwtgvwJljto/видео.html & ruclips.net/video/h6pbwsEDGp0/видео.html Thanks for clearing it up
I now advocate the Calabrese system for 1st century BC Latin pronunciation (5 vowel qualities only): ruclips.net/video/RhqQzMORWVk/видео.html Sodales, a vobis venia est mihi petenda ob barbarismos quos dixi hac in pellicula, e.g. "emphasis" quo vocabulo sum usus quoniam "accentus" necnon "ictus" male interpretandam significationem temebam. Etiam "relativum" dixi quia non mihi eo puncto temporis venit vocabulum aptius. Quid vos his vocabulis diceretis?
Facilius leges: Non satis doctum me esse opinor ut sententias meas his de rebus praebeam, tamen mihi plus accentus quam "emphasis" placet. Praeterea, alia cura me sollicitat. Num antiqui vocabulo "pronuntiatio" eodem modo utabuntur ac his temporibus Anglico vocabulo "pronuntiation" utimur? "Pronuntio", ut mihi quidem videtur, orationem semonemve, at modum loquendi significat appellatio. Sic enim in Lexico Lewis and Short invenitur, nam etiam Cicero ipse dicit: “suavitas vocis et lenis appellatio litterarum,” Cic. Brut. 74, 259. De longitudinibus eadem sententiam ac tu habeo! Opus est maximā curā diligentiāque quantitates servare. Maximas gratias tibi ago!
Gratias tibi ob commentum tuum! Equidem de hac re multum cogitavi, attamen Romani antiqui multa verba habebant ad "pronunciation" sensu soni sermonis : elocutio, dictio, enuntiatio, expressio, pronuntiatio etiam eloqui, dicere, enuntiare, exprimere, pronuntiare. Inter haec fortasse "pronuntiatio" minus frequens erat quam alia vocabula, sed plus temporibus Meioaevalibus adhibitum est, et nobis hodiernis facillime intellegitur. Qua de causa usus sum ipse.
![Seungmin "그렇게, 천천히, 우리(As we are)" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/kAzmhLHePqU/mqdefault.jpg)
His voice is like velvet it soothes my soul
Aw thank you!
He is as beautiful as his voice. It makes learning Latin a pleasure.
@@ScorpioMartianus you wouldn't be half bad speaking Quenya
Thank you for adding Latin and English subtitles and even bigger thank you for not separating them into Latin and English but rather having both side by side separated by a slash! I'm only a beginner at Latin so both the Latin and the English subtitles were a tremendous help to me! Great video!
Hi! Thanks for your comment! You are very welcome. I have debated in the past separating the subtitles into Latin or English to choose, but I was especially afraid that if someone only saw Latin, or English, they wouldn't know the other was available. Plus, as you say, it's a useful tool to compare the two! If you have questions while you are learning, please feel free to ask them on the ScorpioMartianus Facebook page and the growing community there, if not myself, will be very happy to help!
ScorpioMartianus haha I must be the most antisocial nerd ever because I'm now contemplating joining Facebook ONLY for that reason haha ;)
If you'll be adding subtitles to any future videos, please don't change that Latin/English format! If they were separate, I'd have to switch between them every few seconds. And even for learners more advanced than me, I don't think having both languages on screen at the same time would be too inconvenient, while for others like me it's a tremendous help ;)
I shall keep the format the same in that case! Thanks for the input! And if not the ScorpioMartianus Facebook, you can also ask me questions publicly on Twitter, which other members of the Latin speaking community will also see and happily help with. We are a growing and very friendly community, wherever you find us!
I have also just finished adding all the long vowel marks (a laborious but worthwhile process, especially because I made the effort to pronounce them all clearly in the video! :D ), which I hope will be of additional use for students.
👍👍👍👍👍
You're the only American I've ever heard pronounce 'Y' correctly! I have it also in my native language.
Thank you! 🥰
By any chance, is that language Finnish? I say this because Finnish is precisely like that.
To be fair, Latin is the language of his ancestors. I would not expect anyone to speak it better than him.
We have it in Mandarin as well and never in my life did I expect an english speaker to pronounce it lmao
@@Jchan700 感覺大部分英語母語者都會把[y]讀成[ju]，比如說「月」[y̑e̞] 讀成 [jwɛ]
We gotta bring this back people. Come on
Mirabile dictu
This video is so helpful. Spanish is my second language, and I am studying Latin to broaden my understanding of Romance languages. I struggle to comfortably say Latin words without the flat sounding Spanish vowels so I like to revisit this video help express those long vowels better.
Learning Latin, you were recommended by my linguist friend. Love the teaching style.
I love your channel. In Portuguese (Brazilian Portuguese), I could identify 13 vowel sounds. It's so pleasant to listen to you pronouncing Latin. Most of them are exactly the same sound in Latin.
Roger Cham obrigado! 😃
Siendo un nativo del finlandés me encanta que haya un idioma indoeuropeo que tiene una distinción clara entre una vocal larga y una vocal corta 😍
Conheci seu canal faz pouco tempo, estou adorando. É muito interessante escutar as palavras que consigo reconhecer sendo uma brasileira que fala un pó di italiano.
Sim! 😃 Obrigado, Luciana.
4:28 the latin caption says "clausē dīcitur" but the English caption says "it's pronounced open". That may have confused many people.
It did.
Thank you for adding English subtitles, that is very helpful! There was only one error in the English subtitles at 4:31, but it is a negligible one which I managed to resolve :) At any rate, this is a very informative video that helps me understand Latin pronunciation.
Thank you for posting in latin, and having the latin and english side by side. Learning it in Latin helps exercise my Latin listening comprehension, and my Latin writing, as I take my notes in Latin; which I'm able to do thanks to the ingenuity of "Lingua Latina Per Se Illustrata". As a matter of fact, my Latin teacher (if I'm remembering correctly) is a student of your. His name is Sandy Hughes, if that rings any bells.
Anche oggi in italiano ci sono alcune parole con vocali allungate: "olii", "Laocoonte", "Eraclee", "partii" "dormii", "cooperativa".
Hai ragione, ma queste sono vocali raddoppiate e l'italiano non ha vocali lunghe e corte fonemiche nello stesso modo in cui le avrebbe il latino.
¡Me encantó, gracias! Saludos desde Brasil!
I wonder wether the Romans were able to pronounce the greek sound Y. That vowel doesn’t exist in all the romance languages. It exists in French, but because of the germanic (the Frankish tribes) influence. And both in French and Spanish, the letter Y is called ‘greek i’ (i grec, i griega). So I suspect the roman common people pronounced that letter Y like an I.
As a native English speaker, I have a hard time pronouncing long vowels without overexaggerating the length. It's also hard for me to hear the difference even though I know the difference.
Yup English I easy in everything but its vocabulary.
But English has short and long vowels. Portuguese hasn’t.
Amazing❤
You're certainly amazing! Thank you for your videos, they motivate me to learn Latin.
even though I never learned to speak latin, I could understand a good chunk of this because I'm fluent in Spanish.
Your channel is so hopeful. I’m trying to learn Latin for the Roman poetry! It’s hard to get used to the word order.
Melior es libro meo grammatico! Peliculas tuas amo!
Grātiās!
I seem to recall you having made a more recent video saying that in actuality, the Latin E was always “open,” and that the “closed” form was a typical modern Italian mispronunciation...?
I wanted to ask the same question xd
So have you found the answer?
@@alwaysdreaming9604
Search for the Calabrese pronunciation.
I love your videos. You’re the only one who makes totally video in Classical Latin. If I could I will continue the comment in Italian (I’m Italian), as I saw you can also understand Romance languages. Mi permetto di fare una piccola digressione sulla pronuncia della I e della U latina. Ho letto recentemente che, quando si presentano queste due vocali brevi soprattutto all’interno di parole la pronuncia diventa rispettivamente [ɪ] per la I, mentre [ʊ] per la U. Tuttavia, quando si presentano lunghe sono come nella lingua italiana. Spero che tu possa rispondermi in qualche modo e capisco che il video è abbastanza datato, purtroppo ti ho scoperto da poco grazie a “I love languages” con il tuo contributo per il Latino Classico. In ogni caso Valēt!
Bella domanda! Il concetto che [ɪ] e [ʊ] *devono* per forza esistere *mai* in latino è una teoria basata sull'evidenza delle lingue romanze e gli errori tipografici dell'Impero. Però, fino alla generazione del mio spreadsheet ( bit.ly/ranierilatinpronunciation ) nessuno ha cercato di definivamente precisare i periodi di cambiamento. Il fatto che i>e e u>o non vuol dire che devone avere una pronuncia particolare; guarda al η de greco che andava da /ε:/ > /i/ dall'antichità.
Dunque, quando possiamo precisare il cambiamento della 'i'. Osserviamo i primi errori tipografici nel primo secolo d.C., e molti di più nel secondo secolo d.C.; la colonizzazione della Dacia (Romania) parte dal 107 fino al 275, quindi possiamo supporre che vari elementi del rumeno is presentavano nella lingua di molti abitanti dell'Italia nel 2° e 3° sec. E i rumeni hanno i>e, ma non u>o. Infatti u>o non appare prima del quarto secolo, dopo la fine della colonizzazione della Dacia Traiana. I rumeni anche ritengono la au, mentre in italiano au>o (p.e. orecchia
so therefore the o in rosa would be pronounced open normally but closed when in the genitive plural rosārum?
In the model I espouse here, which I no longer use, I recommend essentially what Italians do when they speak Latin. But it’s not especially correct for Classical Latin. It’s fine though.
I could be wrong, but it seems there is a mistake at around 4:30 or 4:36 or so. I think in the Latin subtitles it says closed, but the English says open. He seemed to be demonstrating closed.
This is so helpful.
See my Calabrese videos for an important update
Thanks for English subtitle 👍👍🙏🙏
There's an erron in the english subtitle at 4:31 clause dicitur cum emphasi / it's pronounced open when emphasized. should be 'its pronounced closed'
So basically like German, the Y is pronounced exactly like Ü
Right, and also in Ancient and Mediaeval Greek
Muito bom!
Can you do a video of the accentuation rules of the short accent and long, I don't understand when we put the short accent, and I understand when we put the long accent, but I don't know, how many long accents we put in a word, for example with 2 accents, what we should do to intuit if a word has more than 1 accent.
Thank you,
Grātiās tibi āgō,
Большое Спасибо.
Hi! So, the long mark, called a "macron," is not an "accent" mark - this terminology is very important. The difference between 'a' and 'ā' is that the long 'ā' is about twice as long in duration (in time) than the short 'a'. Long vowels are long by nature; they are different letters entirely. For example, what is the difference between я and а in Russian, or ё and о? It's a fundamental difference in the letter and its pronunciation. How do I know the word is spelled and pronounced яблоко and not аблоко ? I know because they are pronounced differently, and I learned the spelling when I learned the word. This is how we know the that "āra" (an altar) starts with a long 'ā' and not a short 'a' while "apis" (a bee) starts with a short 'a'.
This video helped me a lot, but I do still have a question about it: how come "bene" is pronounced /ˈbe.ne/ instead of /ˈbɛ.ne/ if the first syllable is a short accented one?
Btw, there is a error in the subtitles at 4:30.
Salve, Lucius! Sto studiando latino, ma parlo solo questo. Valet!
Bravo!
Luci*
Grātiās maximās, magister, sed aliquibus nostrī eadem quaestiō est!
In aliā pelliculā veteriōrī cōnfirmās (sequēns illīus Calabrese conclūsiōnem) linguam Latīnam quinque tantum vōcālēs habēre, id est modo versiōnem apertam /ɛ/ et /ɔ/; nunc autem novum et contrārium dīcis nē mentiōnem quidem faciēns… Quid mōvit hanc mūtātiōnem animī?
Haec est vetustior pellicula! 5 vōcālium cōnsilium probātum est.
"rhythmice" is really hard to say
In another video you said that in the times of Cicero and Caesar the "e" was always open. When did it change and which way of pronouncing it is more accurate?
See my new video on polyMATHY
hac in pellicula demonstrare tibi optime contigit tantum quantitate inter se differre vocales breves et longas! In scholis Germanicis nulla quantitatis disctinctio. Facile et breve iter ad pravam pronuntiationem, ad rectam autem longum et difficile. Gratias tibi multas pro his pelliculis lepidissimis et utilissimis.
Grātiās quod spectāvistī! Aliud hoc tibi commendāre velim: ruclips.net/video/Mu-slOBurvM/видео.html
minecraft villagers be like 1:20
Please do correct me if I’m wrong but isn’t “h” in Latin pronunciation is a silent one?
It’s not. It sounds as in English (that’s why English and German use h for the /h/ sound, because the alphabet and this letter’s sound are from Latin).
@ That is interesting because the course I’m learning at the moment says classical Latin H is silent and the V is pronounced as [w] but here I see you pronounced [h] and also [v], unless this is ecclesiastical Latin you’re pronouncing and teaching? Many thanks in advance for the clarification as I am still learning.
Gratias tibi ago!
Gratias quod spectavisti! :D
Macte! Ut semper, optime factum! Vale!
Gratias, Jessie! Tu ut Italice loquens, mavis et tu systema vocalium Italorum quod protuli hac in pellicula?
Ita. Malo hoc systema quod protulisti sed fortasse quia iam multos annos italice loquor ;) Ego quoque studui 'Vox Latina' ab Allen scriptum et puto eius interpretationem pronuntionis Classicae veram esse praeter interpretationem eius pronuntionis vocalium 'oe', ut iam olim te scripsi. Allen quoque dixit "the sound cannot have been very much different from...boy" sed iam mihi haec sententia dixit Allen non omnino persuasum fuisse. nescio, fortasse quia soni litterarum 'e' et 'i' mihi videntur valde similes atque quo in modo soni proditi sint. necesse est movere linguam paulatim et 'e' in 'i' et 'i' in 'e' mutatur. fortasse nolo pronuntiare 'oe' sicut 'oi' quia Romani, mea sententia, sicut Itali attenti fuerant et credo distinguere 'oe' et 'oi' potuisse. Sane, Allen peritior quam ego fuit et fortasse melius est mihi deponere hanc disputationem et facere id quod nunc facere possim! :)
Bonum est argumentum tuum! Neque ego omnino credo illi Sydney Allen, quoad "i" and "u" breves attinet (Romani ipsi scripserunt 'A, I, U eundem sonum habere vel longae vel breves'!) Ego tibi nuntiolum privatum scribam ut melius de hac re colloquamur! Gratias pro commentis tuis.
Unde venit agnōmen hoc, "ScorpiōMārtiānus"?
4:37 You pronounce vero, tenere, habevat with closed e. You said it's open when long and emphasized. I think the English translation is wrong because you say 'clause' in the Latin subtitle. Great videos!
You can also find y sound in mandarin.
Where is the video explaining where the long and short vowels are to be found?
ruclips.net/video/D3bmLi1bKI0/видео.html
bene!!! mihi placet!
Gratias! :D
By the way, I’m loving this. I don’t want to seem like a complainer. I’m just trying to verify.
Learning Latin seems a little easier if you know another Latin based language. I speak Spanish, and that works to my advantage.
You're right, you must speak slowly, articulated
Salve! nonnihil gaudii cepi ex pellicula ista lepidissima spectanda. at velim mihi dicas, unde scias de duplici e litterae qualitate? estne porro certissimum velut i litteram semper esse clausam? valeas.
Salve et tu, Chrissule! Gratias pro commento tuo. Ecce quaeque a grammatico scripta:
[Pompei. Comm. ad Donat. Keil. v. V. p. 101.] "De istis quinque litteris 'a e i o u' tres sunt, quae sive breves sive longae ejusdemmodi sunt, a, i, u: similiter habent sive longae sive breves."
Ibidem: "E aliter longa aliter brevis sonat" syllabis accentuatis. "Quotienscumque e longam volumus proferri, vicina sit ad 'i' litteram. Ipse sonus sic debet sonare, quomodo sonat 'i' littera. Quando dicis 'evitat,' vicina debet esse, sic pressa, sic angusta, ut vicina sit ad i litteram. Quando vis dicere brevem 'e' simpliciter sonat. O longa sit an brevis. Si longa est, debet sonus ipse intra palatum sonare, ut si dices orator, quasi intra sonat, intra palatum. Si brevis est debet primis labris sonare, quasi extremis labris, ut puta sic dices obit. Habes istam regulam expressam in Terentiano. Quando vis exprimere quia brevis est, primis labris sonat; quando exprimis longam, intra palatum sonat."
Hae regulae quidem sunt eaedem atque Italicus sermo hodiernus. Itaque optimus est is exemplar nobis de qualitatibus vocalium; certissimus ergo sum saltem _nonnullos_ Romanos antiquos sic locutos esse. Si plus habebis quaestionum, quaeso hic interrogato! 😊
Большинство латинских букв произносятся почти как в русском языке! Например "i", "u" и "a".
Outstanding! Your channel is what I've been seeking! We have a crisis in American speech patterning as letters are either being mispronounced or improperly articulated! It's causing a crisis in Numerology as each letter corresponds to a number. We misuse short and long vowels as we've become lazy in our speech along with a lack of proper phonetic education.
You have a typo in English subtitles. You say: if the vowel E is long, it is pronounced OPEN when emphasized. should be CLOSED, right?
happen you mean with the *tongue* touching the teeth in the subtitles for i?
Ah, did I make a typo?
When?
Edit: * time stamp *
incredibilia audio "Y" Sunus barbarucus est, etiam solum in germanica lingua vocatus est nonne italica Quandum etiam restituta vel barbara pronutia nobis patiendam est?
SD. Iam antequam tuas, Luci, pelliculas vidi, non mediocriter de pronuntiatu latino et de quantitate vocalium cogitavi. Tu autem plus responsa das quam expectare poteram. Gratias ago et rogo pergas quod facis. Vale
Gaudeō opuscula mea tibi placēre! Grātiās
A is the only vowel, that had the same quality wether it was short or long. Every other vowel gets reduced in short syllables.
Thanks for the comment. Actually this is a common misconception! It has been derived from a philological misunderstanding mostly promulgated by W. Sidney Allen in his otherwise wonderful book VOX LATINA. The evidence is strongly against this due to better philology these days. The Romans themselves clearly state there are seven vowel sounds in native Latin words, and that A I U are always the same irrespective of quality. Thus the vowel system of Italian is the correct model.
That sounds interesting. But about what epoque are we talking now? Because even the common reconstruction gives 7 vowel phonemes, in the 4th century: a, ɛ, e, i, ɔ, o, u. e and ɪ merged to e, o and ʊ merged to o. That makes perfectly sense to me. Do you know what is or where to find the strong evidence for the italian vowel system?
Here is the salient citation:
[Pompei. Comm. ad Donat. Keil. v. V. p. 101.] De istis quinque litteris tres sunt, quae sive breves sive longae ejusdemmodi sunt, a, i, u: similiter habent sive longae sive breves.
Also is the concept of phonotactics, the limits of possible sounds in a language. A people changes its vowel system qualities only over very long time scales. Thus you and I, an American and a German, both have /ɪ/ and /ʊ/ in our Germanic languages, despite their being separated by more than a thousand years of evolution. But these two sounds are *extremely* rare outside of the Germanic language family, and can be found in *none* of the Romance languages, including the more than 100 distinct languages (also called "dialects") alive in Italy today. This makes the presence of /ɪ/ and /ʊ/ in Latin exceedingly unlikely. The schwa, however, was certainly present in Latin in some speakers, and occurs in numerous Italian languages/dialects.
The presumption the existence of /ɪ/ and /ʊ/ in Classical Latin (contrary to the Roman grammarians assertions, cited above) is derived only philologically by the fact that many /ɪ/ and /ʊ/ (but hardly all!) became /e/ and /o/ in some Romance languages. But there are as many exceptions to this "rule" as there are examples. Moreover, a change from /i/ directly to /e/ and /u/ directly to /o/ is equally possible. An intermediate step of /ɪ/ and /ʊ/ is not necessary, for which we can see Japanese. But I'll hold on to the Japanese example for now. :)
Just the fact that neither of these vowels occur in any of the descendants of latin doesn't mean anything. There is no germanic language with nasal vowels as far as I know, but nontheless they are reconstructed for proto Germanic. Every sound change has to be explained systematicly, that's why there's the term phonetic law. In fact short /i/ becomes systematicly /e/ with Sicilian being a systematic exception. This can not be explained under the assumption that long and short /i/ had the same quality because after the collaps of vowel length they would have to merge together, thus it is necessary to reconstruct different vowel qualities and the occasional spellings of for short /i/ give us a hint when that quality difference did come up.
I would still like to know when and where this piece of text has been written. Especially the time is crucial to know. You have to consider that there's variety among different speakers.
I woulnd't say that ɪ is that uncommon. It exists in French, in Québec tho, but it exists. I mean look up the wikipedia site of the near close near front unrounded vowel and you get a list of languages where it occurs. Typological arguments are bullshit most of the time imho.
Oh come on! Pompeius lived in the 5th or 4th century! This isn't evidence, this is a completely different time.
And by the way, your "better philology these days" has been first published in 1868.
Which version of e is used in exit?
I am trying to learn the phrase
"Cum vinum intrat exit sapientia"
See my Calabrese videos. I now recommend true mid vowels
Luke, uma pergunta: a vogal "a" antes de m/n se pronuncia como o "ã" português ou como o "a" normal, como é em espanhol?
Por exemplo, na palavra espanhola "capitán", o "a" de " tán" soa aberto (como um "a" normal), enquanto em português é capitão (se fosse sem o til seria pronunciado como capital). Os hispânicos tem dificuldade de pronunciar o ã português justamente por isso, pq o "a" antes do n/m para eles soa mais ou menos igual a um "a"" normal. Por isso quando eles falam "não" soa "nau"
Resumindo minha pergunta: Romanus se pronuncia "románus" ou "romãnus"? Kkkk
Usa a segunda pronúncia, já existia esse som nasal no latim clássico
@@um_internacionalista obrigada, amigo. Relendo meu comentário eu queria saber pq achei que daria certo escrever uma dúvida em português para um americano. Obrigada viu kkkkkkk eu de fato ainda tinha essa dúvida
Ego non loquemo lingua latina, ma credo che possibile est parlare et loquemur et comunicazione habere sed combinato multa lingua romance
chistoso, video que there faceres 😂
Euge ! Optime! How can I learn it ? :D
Gratias! :) Here is how you can learn, the best textbook ever written! I have recorded the entire book in this playlist: ruclips.net/p/PLU1WuLg45SiyrXahjvFahDuA060P487pV
Salve.
Semper peritissimus atque sapientissimus, care Amadeus, es! Nam haec opera quoque iucundissima ... contra veniam peto ob meam informem enuntiationem italicam, nescientem et longam-brevem et apertam-clausam vocalem litteram. Alphabetum italicum parvissimum omnium alphabetorum est, quia semper in mente italica voluntas magna facilius reddendi. Propter hanc italicam naturam mihi perdifficilis enuntiatio tua pulcherrima.
Vale!
Great channel.
I however prefer the music of ecclesiastical Latin.
There is an excellent video by Metatron on this matter.
In the case of Athena, "e" would be nasalized, right?
No, why would it?
@@ScorpioMartianus Because it is followed by a "n", and in Portuguese it is nasalized thanks to this "n".
@@madjames1134 It's only nasalized like that in *Brazilian* Portuguese. Afaik, nasalization before N when N is on the onset of a syllable (começo de sílaba) is a feature unique to Brazilian Portuguese. Spanish, Italian and other varieties of Portuguese all lack this feature, so it'd make sense that Latin would too.
Where can I get a keyboard to help me type Latin correctly? Any ideas anyone? Thanks!
Joshua Pöttger hi! Is this what you mean? ruclips.net/video/ThidgW91Mec/видео.html
Isn't that pronunciation of "y" optional? I thought you said in one of your other videos (I forget which one; I just remember it was on your polymathy channel) that many Romans would not have been able to pronounce that foreign sound & would've just pronounced it like "u".
Indeed! We have to imagine what they might have done: did all erudite speakers get the /y/ sound? Did few of them? Did non-erudite people ignore it?
@@ScorpioMartianus In that case, call me lazy or erudite (which seems to be a favorite word of yours lol) or whatever, but I think I'll just opt for the "u" pronunciation; it's one thing making the effort in Greek; it's another thing transplanting phonemes where they don't feel natural, else I would totally do the German "ch" in "Bach" & break into a perfect French accent every other word I speak.
Wow these letters Sound a lot like the Danish ones
A lot? They're the same...
Pronuntiā ecclesiasticā semper utor, quia in Italiā sic legimus et aliter legere non possum, sed mē valde delectat tē audire.
Gratias ago tibi.
Prōnūntiātiō ecclēsiastica omnīnō jūsta est, sed prōnūntiātiōne restitūtā ūtī mālō.
Quomodo litterae e, o longa vel brevis graecae originis pronuntiandae sunt sine emphasi? Aperte aut clause?
Bellum interrogatum! Aperte me magis placet, etiamsi Italice clause sunt. Minoris momenti hoc censeo. :)
Multas maximasque gratias tibi ago! Hoc sum suspicatus ) Mihi tua valde perplacet interpretatio, ita ut ipse nunc uti nitor.
Interesting, but very short video
the captions with phoneme articulation marks really drives it home imo.... just wanted to learn how to read classical latin... and this video helped tremendously.
Great!
So, -um or -am is pronounced as -u: and -a: ? How about -n? Is it also having a kind of nasalisation or being muted? But emphasis is pronounced as emphasis as well, not ephasis. How come?
The word final m nasalizes. The n is normal
I'm so confused. Some places I look tell me that in classical pronunciation long and short vowels don't literally mean duration but actually sound different. For example, "ē" would sound like "date" and "e" would sound like bet. And others say that it's actually the duration that matters. Are there different opinions on this or am I just misunderstanding someone?
Such guides are completely wrong. The only real difference between long and short vowels is duration ruclips.net/video/eH8E5RKq31I/видео.html
How do you pronounce “ESUI” is it Esuwi or Esuyi
It's pronounced ['e:sui:]
Do all Latin consonants have 1 single pronunciation?
A brilliant and clear explanation! Thank you for the help. 😊
Can I ask what did you mean by the pronunciation being your interpretation? Are we not sure what is the exact pronunciation of Latin letters?
Think of geology. We have a very clear image of that the continents looked like 100 million years ago due to continental drift. But there is not perfect clarity when looking back that far.
@@ScorpioMartianus thanks Luke 😀
Luci, ego tantum audiveram longitudinem vocalium qualitatem semper dictare. Ergo ō ē-que sint semper clausi, o e-que semper aperti. Quoque vocales i, y u breves habeant alias qualitates: ɪ, ʏ, ʊ. Tantum a et ā eamque qualitatem habeant.
Sed pronuntiatus tuus, Luci mihi plus placetur et spero hoc fuisse pronuntiatus verum Romanorum temporum classicorum!
Sorry if this is answered in the video. I'm skimming at the moment.
How are double i's pronounced?
Filii
Fluvii
etc.
Simply as two i sounds, without a glottal stop in between
@@ScorpioMartianus Thanks!
You might find this interesting:
I'm in high school, and I've received an "independent study period" that I've been allowed to dedicate to Latin.
Hi! I have been checking your videos but I haven´t found any one with tipps or ways to learn the long vowels. I mean I have never taken care of the length of vowels. Now if I want to pronunce the long vowels when writting or speaking, how can I memorise them? Thanks in advance!
I have a whole playlist about this on polyMATHY
@@ScorpioMartianus Do you mean the list: Latin meter, poetry recitation lessons?
I watched the whole video only in Latin, but as a Brazilian wasn't had to understand. But them came to the comments and found out it have subs. I suffered without reason.
Salvē Lūcī, grātiās tibi prō pelliculīs tuīs, ūtilēs attractīvaeque sunt. Possīsne dē postclassicā prōnūntiātiōne linguæ latīnæ, quam Cōnstantīnus sīve Theodosius locūtī sint, pelliculam facere ? Quia nōn sciō num ut lingua prōto-rōmānica aut ut lingua latīna classica, aut ut aliquis aliud prōnūntiāta est. Grātiās tibi iterum agō, valē !
verba cum duabus aut tribus vocalibus longis semper mihi dificiliora sunt dictu. Etenim saepe ubi vocem augeo ad eas pronuntiandas in quoque verbo, me quemdam italianum loquentem videri puto, et comicum, iocosum est 😅🎶
Optime! Oportet quasi-Italice audiri, Romani quidem Itali fuerent! nonne? :D
recte dicis, ahhh vetera tempora quae non redeunt plus 😁
Salve, ego sum Italicus et non facile est vocales longas servare.
Vōcālēs longās rēctē prōnūntiātum discere potes textūs macrōnīzātōs legendō (e. g. seriēs librōrum quae dīcitur Lingua Latīna Per Sē Illūstrāta).
English speakers should learn latin vowels.
Gratias tibi ago Luci quia pelliculae tuae praeclara sunt. Rectum tibi esse puto quod longitudines vocalium servanda sunt. Sed hoc difficillimum esse existimo, ut inter vocales longas brevesque recte distinguam.
Grātiās! Poteris id facere!
On day I’m putting my son in front of these until he’s a roman
Pronuncia troppo buona Madonna
macte virtute, carissime amice! His id unum addiderim, quod Priscianus in Partitionibus, 464-465k, 19 - 465-466, 8, de i brevi post v et f et ante d, t, m, r, x consonantes posita per vocalem /y/ pronuntianda docet: "omnis dictio a vi syllaba brevi incipiens, d vel t vel m vel r vel x sequentibus, hoc sono pronuntiatur, ut video videbam, videbo; quia in his temporibus vi corripitur, mutavit sonum in y; in praeterito autem perfecto et in aliis, in quibus producitur, naturalem servavit, ut vidi, videram, vidissem, videro. Similiter vitium mutat sonum quia corripitur, vita autem non mutat quia producitur; similiter vim mutat quia corripitur, vimen autem producitur ideoque non mutat; similiter vir et virgo mutant quia corripiuntur; virus autem et vires non mutant quia producuntur; vix mutat quia corripitur; vixi non mutat quia producitur. Hoc idem plerique solent etiam in illis dictionibus facere, in quibus a fi brevi incipiunt syllabae sequentibus supradictis consonantibus, ut fides, perfidus, confiteor, infirmus, firmus. Sunt autem qui non adeo hoc observant, cum de vi nemo fere dubitet". Haec dicendi consuetudo, quantum scio, haud traiecta est in seriorem vulgarem sermonem, quandoquidem hoc neque Itali facimus, nec Galloromani, neque Hispani, nec Dacoromani. Necesse est illam a sermone evanuisse ante Latinitatem quae dicitur vulgarem constitutam. Tu quid sentis, amice? Pronuntiatune nostro quod Priscianus docet adservandum censes annon?
Stephane Rhumakissime! Gratias pro commentis tuis. Bene novi haec de Prisciano, putoque eum affectum naturalem accidere nam, labris productissimis (ut Itali faciunt vocales U, etiamque Romani antiqui ut opinor), rapide labra in 'i' vocalem ut ponant non semper fieri licebat, itaque mixtura audiebatur attentissimis grammaticis inter U et I, id est Y. Modo nunc tibi privatim incisiunculas misi ut vocem meam 'vi'>'vy' tendendam audires.
bruh youtube thinks this is italian :))), the video has automatically generated italian subtitles
I was confused on these 2 other videos, because they were opposing each other:
ruclips.net/video/LwtgvwJljto/видео.html
&
ruclips.net/video/h6pbwsEDGp0/видео.html
Thanks for clearing it up
Heh. The reason is that Latin Tutorial is an excellent resource on grammar and vocabulary, but is an incredibly bad source for pronunciation
Why does this guy look like a deepfake singing "Dame Da Ne" at me?
I now advocate the Calabrese system for 1st century BC Latin pronunciation (5 vowel qualities only): ruclips.net/video/RhqQzMORWVk/видео.html
Sodales, a vobis venia est mihi petenda ob barbarismos quos dixi hac in pellicula, e.g. "emphasis" quo vocabulo sum usus quoniam "accentus" necnon "ictus" male interpretandam significationem temebam. Etiam "relativum" dixi quia non mihi eo puncto temporis venit vocabulum aptius. Quid vos his vocabulis diceretis?
Facilius leges:
Non satis doctum me esse opinor ut sententias meas his de rebus praebeam, tamen mihi plus accentus quam "emphasis" placet. Praeterea, alia cura me sollicitat. Num antiqui vocabulo "pronuntiatio" eodem modo utabuntur ac his temporibus Anglico vocabulo "pronuntiation" utimur? "Pronuntio", ut mihi quidem videtur, orationem semonemve, at modum loquendi significat appellatio. Sic enim in Lexico Lewis and Short invenitur, nam etiam Cicero ipse dicit: “suavitas vocis et lenis appellatio litterarum,” Cic. Brut. 74, 259.
De longitudinibus eadem sententiam ac tu habeo! Opus est maximā curā diligentiāque quantitates servare. Maximas gratias tibi ago!
Gratias tibi ob commentum tuum! Equidem de hac re multum cogitavi, attamen Romani antiqui multa verba habebant ad "pronunciation" sensu soni sermonis : elocutio, dictio, enuntiatio, expressio, pronuntiatio etiam eloqui, dicere, enuntiare, exprimere, pronuntiare. Inter haec fortasse "pronuntiatio" minus frequens erat quam alia vocabula, sed plus temporibus Meioaevalibus adhibitum est, et nobis hodiernis facillime intellegitur. Qua de causa usus sum ipse.
Quod temporibus Mediaevalibus adhibitum magni mihi momenti est! Utinam haberem lexicon ullum liguae Latinae Medii aevi, ut exempla bona videam.