The Best Pro-Choice Argument - Lila Rose
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- Опубликовано: 15 сен 2024
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Don’t punish the baby for the crimes of the “father”
or the woman!!
You are ok punishing the mother, and the taxpayers?
Your ridiculous beliefs have real-world impacts...
@@WholeWhiteBabyPunishing the mother? Bro wtf are you on. If you consider the consequences to having sex and ending up with a baby a “punishment” your selfish and only care about yourself. The only real-world impacts and issues is ab0rtion… because it’s killing innocent babies and decreasing the population instead increasing it. Not to mention people like you think encouraging woman to have ab0rtions is the right thing to do, instead of supporting them not to. You, think that ending a babies life solves the issues of the world but actually just contributes to the issues of the world. If you seriously think being pro-life is the end all of be all in this society you’re incredibly wrong and need to be educated.
People don't like to believe evil can be passed genetically but it can.
@kylecook7503
You are saying it is okay to kill someone if they might become a burden on you?
Did Destiny pullout his phone and NOT LISTEN to what Lila was saying in the name of open mindedness and tolerance?
Did you actually watch the whole 4 HOUR debate?
@@geewhiz747 I did and Lila Rose needs to have a full debate with him one on one again. It will be much better than before. Kristen did terrible. However, Destiny was stopped in his tracks too by Lila.
A person who will not accept actual definitions, and insists on THEIR definition...is open minded?
A person who wants to remove the Rights of others, by forcing non-believers to adhere to the bible...is tolerant?
Lay off the edibles...hippy.
@@WholeWhiteBaby isn’t that what Destiny does? You see Destiny lacks moral values. He only mentions the “is”
(Facts) in ethics but he never mentions the “ought” because if deals within moral behavior of right and wrong he is going to be wrong. That’s why he only sticks to the “is” facts but not the oughts (which are values, principles, purpose and objective etc). Biblical morality is what made America and the Western World. Biblical principles are the foundation for society. No one actually goes against morality because that causes dysfunction. Btw those “rights” are rooted in Genesis by the freedom of choosing between right and wrong and living with the consequences of those choices. The Declaration of Independence quotes Scripture indirectly: “man is endowed with their creator (Genesis) ____pls fill in the blank…
I’ll wait for your response. I recommend you don’t strawman me or ad hominem like you already have “hippy” . Just everyone else does when I smoke them in a debate.
@@WholeWhiteBaby hahahaha found the male feminist cuck simp. news flash kyle, the feminists wont sleep with you if you simp for them.
Having the baby ripped out of their womb won't help her.
My niece was a product of rape, my sister was raped in a Kmart parking lot at gun point in her van she thought she had locked. They never caught the pervert that raped her!! She was going to get an abortion but didn’t have the heart to do it. Thank GOD my sister didn’t have her killed!! She is a blessing even though the circumstance!
Your sister had a choice. Not all women want to bear the child of a rapist. Even though I believe all religions are BS nonsense....I still support a person's right to believe in whatever made up nonsense that they want to believe in. The bottom line is that it is her body...and it should be her choice whether she wants to terminate a pregnancy or not.
@@paullentz1972 what nonsense do you believe in? Evolution?
@@myaneumann7080 You must believe that some made up god 'grabbed a piece of dirt, blew his freaking breath into it and created man', right?
Unreal how STUPID religious CUCKS are. Get a science book, Sling!
@@myaneumann7080Evolution is not 'nonsense'. There's this thing called "DNA" (you might have heard of it). It clearly shows a path of evolution genetically. Chimps share over 97% of their DNA with humans (our closest relatives genetically).
Love to hear this woman defending life.
She kept interrupting
@@randomhuman2595no Destiny kept trying to interrupt her and she wouldn’t let him
Our backing her will strengthen her...
@@punmaster5178 She asked Destiny a hypothetical about when does personhood begin and then cut him off
Sad to hear women advocate for taking the rights of other women.
She acknowledges giving birth to your rapist’s baby is horrific
But she believes that little girls should HAVE to give birth to their rapist’s baby.
Destiny’s argument was, a fetus, that is under 20 weeks old, hasn’t developed a brain or consciousness yet.
And the mother should have the autonomy of their own body to abort an undeveloped fetus.
Exactly. And don’t forget that if you murder a pregnant woman, you’ll be charged with a double homicide
Not necessarily. Some states use “feticide” as a charge to get around that little moral conundrum. I think (but I’m not sure) it’s around 20 states that use that.
@@jeffreyeshbach9372 thanks, good to know.
What if a pregnant woman tries to commit su*cide but survives?
Actually, when a pregnant woman is murdered it's classed as unlawful termination of a pregnancy it isn't actually classed as murder.
isn't that only in a few places?
I watched a crime documentary a while back and the father was SA’ing his daughter. She got pregnant 2 or 3 times and kept every single one. The last one she had the hospital figured out what was going on between her and the dad and contacted authorities. I remember I loved the end….she showed all her children and said that she called them her “lotus flowers” because they grew through “mud” but blossomed to be her beautiful children.
Wait…are you referring to the case that started back in the 80s, overseas and he held her in the basement,right?
@@tinahuttner7280 I don’t remember the exact details, hun. It’s been too long since I saw it. Sorry.
@@tinahuttner7280I don't think she could be referring to that. That poor girl had 7 babies before she was free after 15 years being held prisoner. One of the most horrific stories I've ever heard.
Uh....for woman kept I captive situations the children born of r4pe are often the only other human beings other than the r4pist the captive woman sees so of course she gets to love them.
Doesn't mean we need to act like it's a flippin happy story.
What is the name of the documentary?
My favorite thing was when the anti Covid vaccine crowd took up "my body, my choice" to protest the mandates. Then, many of the pro choice people had to go, no, not like that.
I thought that was just used to underline hypocrisy for the vaccine mandate side.
A person's worth shouldn't depend on how they were conceived.
Exactly
"What is the best argument that the other side makes?" is actually a great question in any debate. It really forces you to be insightful and detect the flaws in your own reasoning.
There are no flaws though and they don't make any good arguments.
@@ZapparoniWorks That's how you lose debates, lol. Most of America believes abortions should be legal in most cases and it's entirely because people like you are so bad at communicating or understanding.
She literally gave the WORST pro-choice argument possible.
@@humblehomunculus2722no that's the best because y'all like to agrue at extremes that are inherently wrong.
@@precious14stones The fact that you can't argue the opposite position properly just shows that you shouldn't even be allowed to engage in the discussion.
Go away brainlet, room temp IQs like you are why democracy starts to break down lol.
I’d just like to say that I AM one of those, admittedly very few, women who had a child from a difficult situation and I would NEVER have blamed her father! My baby was such an incredible blessing to me! Now my baby is a whole, band new, adult and I can’t imagine my life without her! Don’t assume that we want to hurt our babies just because we were hurt, statistically it’s not the case!
Not only this, but the “rape and incest” scenario only accounts for less than 0.2% of abortion cases. The exception is not the rule; if we legalize abortion just because of less than one percent of scenarios, the other 99% of women will abuse this and get abortions as a form of birth control.
That's all they have to argue with though is the problem, they don't care if it is only .2% of cases. They'll just argue "Well we need other abortions so that it is affordable to abort for the rape cases!"
It's just insane that they can justify abortion for their own selfish gain. If there is a hell, it's going to be very sad for these people when they get sent to it because they though abortion was a morale OK.
@@Lolatyou332 I agree, but I think they know it’s morally evil… they just say whatever they can think of to help them sleep at night. “but but but what about rape! but but but it’s just a clump of cells!” 😓🙄
That is only REPORTED rape and incest.
Those numbers are not a true reflection of reality, which is much higher.
Morally I agree with you, but legislatively the research tells us that outlawing things like abortion, drugs, alcohol, porn etc. is just such a terrible idea. They just go onto the black market and it's way less safe for everyone. Women will still seek out abortions even if they're illegal, so keep them legal, regulated, and safer for everyone.
@@DonkasaurusNZ No. There needs to be more drastic measures against elective abortion. But a very young rape victim should be an exception in terminating the pregnancy when detected very early on. It’s a very high risk pregnancy & psychologically it would very likely be far too traumatic for a child to go through pregnancy; labor & delivery due to a rape. If she’s 6-10 weeks pregnant- she should be throughly counseled & be able to chose to terminate or continue the pregnancy. It’s a VERY VERY SAD case either way. There simply is no black & white in situations like this
The baby is still hers. Personal Experience tells me that they didn’t do it and the baby shouldn’t be punished for what the father did. Every baby is precious and deserves the right life that we have taken so much for granted
So the woman should be punished TWICE instead? Go to hell
No one seems to want to acknowledge that it is still her choice. There are other ways to kill a fetus in the womb. Probably all of which much more dangerous for the mother than abortion. So if the mother is determined to neglect the fetus to death, no one can stop her.
Absolutely not if a woman was raped you basically violated her a baby should not be forced into a world like that I would never keep a rapist's baby because it was against her will as a human being and the baby is not here yet that's evil when people want to force women to give birth to a child that wasn't supposed to be here imagine if the child found out years later that his father was a criminal that basically violated his mother and thats how he got here this would mess a child up especially if it was a boy what if he goes postal over it or other kids pick on him for it?
Nobody ever stops to think that maybe unwanted children wish there parents didn't bring them here. What's ridiculous about it is that men could easily avoid this too by simply not raping women anymore and minding there own business. If you choose to spread your seed around inside women you don't care about then don't expect any good karma from that because it will effect you or anyone else that creates any kind of problems like this..
The fetus isn't being punished.
Every animal is precious, does that stop you from eating meat? Why are human babies special and do people no care about baby pigs or baby cows?
@@unicorn73212 we’re you unwanted? Did your mother tell you that you should have never lived. No. I’m sure but I was raped and I kept the baby and by the way I would never put that kind of pressure upon my child and when she finds out the truth she won’t think she’s a mistake. I will show her that she was a miracle. That through all I endure that she got a better life than I could receive. Your only out is to kill the innocent that had no part in it. Why would children pick on the child for such a horrific matter. I don’t see your side. Because I was stronger to believe that the life I was growing in my belly matter than myself. That how a mother should feel. It just shows your mind capacity.
Lila Rose is an hero to the unborn HUMANS!!!
They lack the consciousness to acknowledge a hero, or understand the concept....
@@WholeWhiteBaby You’re point?
@@tommoore2012 the truth.
@@WholeWhiteBaby According to your logic, if someone is unable to recognize or comprehend heroism, if their lives were to be saved by another person, that other person is still not a hero? Heroes don’t exist without acknowledgment?
@@tommoore2012 are you on the pot? Where the hell did you come up with that?
Also, i presented facts, not logic. I use definitions and reality to guide my speech and thoughts.
When an argument is based on changing definitions and omitting reality, that argument is based on logic, however illogical it may be...
The person who commits an act of rape or incest should be punished, and punished severely....Not the baby.
A really good point she makes is that when a SA victim gets an abortion it’s not going to un- traumatize them, if anything it makes it worse. You still give birth regardless but it’s birth to a dead baby instead of an alive one..
No it is not. A long pregnancy where you have a parasite in you eating your nutrients is not the same as a one-day abortion where said parasite is the size of an egg with no heartbeat or brain. What that fetus has is potential. But so does all human life, including the ones we eat.
Sure, I agree it's a sin and what not, but you can't take away someone's choice and authority over their own bodies. This shiet is a very slippery slope. Many men would end up impregnating women with bad intentions, it could be an abusive husband that wants to keep his wife from leaving, it could be a rapist who wants to destroy someone's life, it could be an ass who wants to be prolific and spread his seed but not take any responsibility.
All these things are nuanced and very debatable, by the time any of it gets solved, the child will have been born anyway. So it would just be another shitty loophole to force women.
It's not that the fetus is not important, but you're infringing on someone else's right to life and their bodily autonomy. If you could take the fetus out and raise it, sure all for it, otherwise, while it's an unwanted parasite by an unwilling host, no.
Stop trying to speak to people's humanity, at no point in time were rapists ever punished for destrying lives like they want to punish women for aborting. Pedos also run rampant. there's a pink tax and kids ARE expensive.
Do many women regret it? Yea. But many mothers regret giving birth, too. Even if they love their children, not to mention those that hate their kids.
Not necessarily, especially if they are too young to understand what is going on at the very least they do not have to go through birthing a child, and potentially raising it or growing up with their own child as their sibling. If caught early when most abortions are performed they will not "give birth" to anything they can perceive other than a very heavy period.
IMO the most effective argument the other side makes is to tell people "It's not a human being, it's just a lump of cells" , by dehumanising unborn babies people don't even realise how horrific it is to kill them. They think it's no different from having a wart removed. This is how I genuinely thought just form being raised in a nearly-godless household and being brought up with these pro-abortion slogans you hear all the time like "my body my choice" , "It's just a lump of cells" . It wasn't until I listened to pro-life arguments properly and realised that all the pro-abortion slogans I heard were based on lies that I saw how horrific abortion is. Before that the secular culture managed to completely dehumanise unborn babies to me up until 20-something weeks. Their most effective tactic is just to promote dehumanising slogans and use their control of media institutions to build consensus via social pressure without people thinking about the facts of the issue properly.
honestly, i think the argument is very ineffective if you're talking to people who actually understand biology and understand basic science. one of the first things you learn in biology is that cells are the building block to life, something is not living if it is not made of cells. so human beings are inherently built up of thousands of cells, which is why they're living. that argument is just very poor.
@@avivaleib They rely on the unconscious intuition that goes something like "humans look like me, these things are just lumps of cells, lumps of cells are just things like tumors or warts they aren't living human beings on their own " It's invalid but the slogan-thinking lures you into not thinking about it beyond that. It's a kind of thought-terminating cliche if you've heard of those.
@@thehobbyisttries exactly my point.
@@avivaleibbut cells dont have moral value in themselves, correct? I dont understand how do you apply biology to support the moral argument.
Id agree with most of what you said, but I wouldn't refer to it as secular vs religious because its not. If anything abortion is worse for atheist's because in their mind that person will never exist again, not go to heaven.
My twin daughters were conceived from SA. I miscarried one, and I kept one till term she was the best thing in my life. She made life worth living again. If it hadn’t been for her existence, I would’ve unalive myself after the violent attack.
I mean, she's right. And Destiny knows it's the most effective argument. Which is precisely why he attempted it by posing the hypothetical rape of an 11 year-old.
James Robison the T.V. preacher who goes on missions and has fed and helped many poor people is a product of rape and his moma decided to keep him and love him and he's been doing God's work for many years. Blessings
That does make sense but by doing that you are punishing a living being for someone else's sins. Don't do that.
Edit, after watching the animation at the end, the amount of cruelty that is inflicted upon the baby, which is a living being, during abortion - it's like throwing a grown man into a plane's engine. I can't believe there are people who are willing to do that to a living being even if it's inside of your belly because "my body my choice"
First of all that's not what a real abortion looks like. A fetus literally looks like a grain of rice at that point. Any abortions done after that are done on wanted, but unviable babies. I suggest you go look up actual doctors who have dealt with abortions and see them talk about it.
Second of all if you think an abortion is horrific, on a clump of cell's that has no thoughts or consciousness, you're gonna be absolutely blown away at the amount of horror LIVING CHILDREN go through. Go look up pictures of the aftermath of a school shooting. Go look up what starving kids in 3rd world countries look like. Go look up foster care, and how most kids in the system won't get adopted ever. Go look up how many kids in America, the leading nation of the free world, go hungry EVERY DAY (I'll spare you the research on that one: it's 1 in 8.)
Start helping out the kids who are on this earth. I already have. Then we can worry about the unborn
Don't go to Hell over innocent blood.
Hell doesn't exist. And according to your own bible, nobody is innocent.
The best Pro Life answer to the rape and incest of a woman is STATISTICS. Rape, Incest, and endangerment to mother TOGETHER ONLY MAKE UP 1% of abortions. 99% of abortions is because the baby is considered a hassle. FACT! Secondly, when a woman gets raped or there is incest, that is taken care at the hospital RIGHT AWAY! Hospitals with the morning after pill are given to the victim, so that the woman NEVER gets pregnant. So this idea that a woman gets raped or experiences sexual incest and waits 6 months is ridiculous scenario.
Imo the most persuasive argument pro-choice people have is “ want another blue haired idiot in the world , just like me”
😂😬
Just two persuasive arguments: The parents, as the creators of that offspring, have the right to continue or terminate their creation, like a painter has the right to continue or terminate their painting, because it belongs to them. In the case of the painting it is a property rights type ownership. In the case of the offspring, it is a biological ownership. Reasonably, the right to terminate ends at birth because the offspring then has political rights.
Second one is, when the offspring is unwanted, abortion is justified by self defense because of the hormonal changes, bodily changes and pain during pregnancy and possibly during childbirth.
@@Dhorpatan "after birth they have political rights so killing isn't justified" you just made the Government your god. There's a reason the constitution says every human has God given rights and not "Government given rights". The Government can change.
By the way when a pregnant woman is killed it counts as double homicide and the killer is charged accordingly.
Also the baby just grows in the womb, the mother isn't "the creator". Again, that's God's title. The parents can't even determine what hair color or what eyes the baby will have. By having sex they took part in the act of reproduction by choice.
If they are hapoy with their decision doesn't change the fact that now there is a third human body involved with its own God given rights, with feelings and an unique dna. By stating someone "owns" it you're making the case for slavery. Parents have a responsibility for their offspring but they don't have the right to do whatever they want to them, and rightfully so.
@@Dhorpatan Is that what you actually believe or are you just citing the best pro abortion arguments you’ve heard?
@@Political_Brainrot_Auditor The first argument I gave, as far as I know I invented it. The second argument has been around since the 70's. I thought I invented the self-defense argument but I found out its been around for a good while. Yes its what I actually believe.
People's consciousness inevitably kick in when faced with a wall of truth. The blue haired guy's body language/reaction betrays him because he KNOWS deep inside he has no argument against Lila. That is the endless power of the Holy Spirit. Great work Lila, keep bringing the truth to light.
Inevitably also means it wasn’t there before.
I think you mean ‘conscience’ if you are talking about his awareness of right and wrong.
What? Destiny DEMOLISHED these two during the debate.
Even in this clip, before she launched into her supervillain rant about "compassionately" forcing rape victims to give birth to their rapists' babies, she actually said that she believes the consciousness argument is that you get to kill people if they are napping.
It's genuinely astounding to me how people think this debate was a win for Lila and Kristan. Even the fans of the Whatever Podcast, whom I believe skew right wing and thus pro-life, thought these two were absolute insufferable morons that made the pro-life movement sound like nothing but psychopaths.
@@angryretailbanker5103 Yeah because someone with such blatantly obvious false accusations and insults is obviously the one who can read the room and give an objective opinion. Lmao. You are projecting.
@@penmaster003 What projecting? She literally said in the debate that Destiny’s consciousness argument didn’t consider the fact that you’re unconscious while you sleep. She literally believes that factoring personhood into the abortion debate would lead down the slippery slope to legalizing murder against people who are asleep.
"the rapist's baby"
HER baby
@@thehobbyisttriesthe baby is as much hers as they are the rapist's baby. The baby has both their mom's and dad's genetics.
@@thehobbyisttries in the case of rape everyone always says that it's the rapist's baby so abortion is okay, but the baby is the mom's also. To me they make it sound like the baby is almost a clone of their bastard father. They say "I don't want to have my rapist's baby" while ignoring that it's not just his baby.
Um...extremely doubtful that anyone is violating in purpose of diing any kind of parenting + raising their children from such an act. It's purely in satisfying their perverted lusts with no regard for whom they cause pain or hurt
@@celestekoluria2695
And she didn't ask for it, so she shouldn't be punished for what was done to her.
@@celestekoluria2695 yeah, but against her will. so easy trying to impose your moral values on a decision that will change another individual's life without her consent
This women is probably doing some of the best work of modern times.
Lila Rose, You're a blessing ♥
The truth. End of the day, no matter the circumstance, the mother needs help and protection and the innocent baby. God bless Lila Rose.
Still not an excuse. The baby still comes out. Whether by birth or abortion. Why add trauma by making her a murder of her own baby? Why murder a baby? Why be a murderer? It's her baby, she is the mother. She also has the option of adoption. Pregnancy by rape is also extremely rare and less than .01%. How about more safety for woman and children and charging parents for child neglect that leads to a child being raped.
You add trauma by forcing her to give up her bodily autonomy for the second time.... Like what are you eveb talking about?
Because up to like 31 weeks it doesnt have consciousness therefore isnt a human
@@criticaledition9199wrong. Babies can survive outside the womb at that point. It's Straight up murder.
@@geewhiz747bullshit , pregnancy can be healing even to a raped women ,I know of such cases
@@Србомбоница86 Some, that is why pro choice is called a choice, so that people can decide, it's not forced abortion.
This comment section is highly concerning. No woman deserves the punishment of carrying a baby made as a result of her getting raped.
No woman should have to ever carry a baby she did not plan for. A grown woman matters more then a clot.
The clip they showed at the end of the baby dead is something that litteraly happens only when the life of the woman is in actual danger because of the pregnancy, most abortions happen when the fetus is smaller then a clot.
preach, scrolling through these other comments makes me sick
Pregnancy is not a punishment.
If you don't appreciate getting SAed, why would you harm the preborn?
Why does it make sense for a child to be given the death penalty when the rapist might only get prison time?
Yes, the baby doesn’t deserve to die because of the sins of the father. The visual at the end was horrific.
Best argument for rape/incest is women know it happened and if they don’t but assume something happened, they need to seek help IMMEDIATELY! 1. To get medical assistance including Plan B to avoid abortion 2. To report the crime and get out of the situation if it’s bound to happen again 3. To get mental health counseling to start the healing process
Destiny 🤡🤡🤡
The issue is nobody is against exceptions. Her argument doesn't really support abortion as a concept, only it's use in extreme situations. It's not a justification for full on 9 month+ baby murder.
Rape is traumatic enough. Don’t compound the trauma by helping a little girl kill her own baby. Little girls are not emotionally wired to kill their baby dolls. It is far less traumatic, long term, for her to carry her precious child to full term. At least she wouldn’t be plagued with the lifetime of guilt and shame associated with mothers who kill their babies. And no, that guilt and shame is not a social construct of a prudish society. That is a feeling that emerges from within, even in the most pro abortion societies. It is a female thing, not a cultural thing. Protect females’ most sacred feelings by encouraging them not to kill their offspring, and be there for them emotionally, spiritually, financially, and physically through the whole pregnancy and healing process. Love traumatized and violated girls of all ages❤️
Actually it’s way more traumatic for a little girl to carry that baby. She is permanently damaging her body for a a stupid law that doesn’t care about her. A young girl giving birth is with huge complications due to her not even being wired yet to deliver a baby. You can’t force that on a little girl.
why does your comment end in ...
@@stephenohalloran3378 evolution has made complications rare for anyone capable of becoming pregnant. rape is horrible, but a lot of our evolutionary development happened through rape of young people. A littler girl is quite literally wired for giving birth once they can get pregnant. regardless of complications though that just means everything should be done to help her, not kill a baby. If you fine with banning abortion in other cases because its killing a person, but want a exception for these situations, your just evil or haven't thought it through. Its as simple as, if abortion is killing a person it shouldn't be allowed.
@@jmailmonopolis6296 you have to click “more”
Little girls aren't 'wired' to be pregnant and be mothers
Question: Who is supposed to care for all these unwanted, now not aborted babies? There are countless children in your foster care system waiting for a family but never get one? Where are these extra family’s going to spring from?
Well, there are about 2 million couples who are on a waiting list to adopt in USA alone. The adoption process here can take up to 18 months; and 2-7 years if you’re adopting an infant.
Well, why does she have to raise a baby that she doesn't want. I'd rather abort a baby in very early stages that was forced upon.my.petson or force it on another person.
Murdering a helpless innocent human being is not the solution tot hat problem
@@christophertaylor9100 you better ask the person that it happens to than push your ideology onto them. Some may do it, but to force birth in such a scenario is terrible. Too many abortions happen these days, and pro life doesn't get involved within specifics there, instead rather would infiltrate a supreme court to enforce a law against people which had criminal acts done unto themselves. Fuck that, people have rights to not be insulted by a " do gooders" irrational enforcements. A baby is not even a human at early stages, and miscarriages happen all the time, so it's fairly no different. Other scenarios may involve serious medical problems of children which honestly may be mercy rather than e forcing a living that will be harder. Other times yes when other medical scenarios do happen then it's a selfish reasoning of the government to enforce a minority option.
@@bitdgamer3891 Its even worse to murder a helpless innocent baby. How can you not comprehend that absolute fact? This isn't my "ideology" its flat out absolute morality we all share, save the few evil and insane among us. You do NOT murder helpless innocent babies.
@@christophertaylor9100 so stop miscarriages if you can, e everyone can understand and even care workers that are within the field that's it's a process and don't even allow some past certain terms to be aborted. It's either a huge fine, unwillingness to do a procedure for a late termination, and such. Most abortions are early, and most unnecessary pregnancies happen because not enough education on sexual relations, protective sex measures. So it's silly to assume everyone to be religious and waiting for marriage, just as well, people within religions and marriage have miscarriages and even abortions at times. I don't think anyone thinks it's a good thing, but rather than being specific around the areas where it's needed to be reminded on how not to get involved in unwanted pregnancies instead of an all out biased push.
Religious people don't encourage sexual relations, not protective sex and probably advocate against it no different than advocating against mental health care in schools. So a big problem of thinking society should only exist in one way distorts society in bias. No one should be having abortions willy nilly, unless specific concerns, but it is odd to always blame the woman here and not both as it takes two to be irresponsible. The more you push religious enforcement and not enough sexual education, paternity and psychology in schools the more you'll get an imbalance. Giving away condoms, talking about partner to partner assisting putting it on, learning how not to be bashful of protective sex. The majority problem I read was within the early twenties to mid twenties, so in specific why not tackle the target areas of needing assistance, because aborts don't help the body either. You can't force religion onto a society much less enforcing too much society onto religion. But meet a bit in the middle, as honestly religious people don't even know enough about sex and medical comprehension of paternity and nine months care taking. Seriously, this needs an all around implanted education within high school and first two years of college or university.
@@christophertaylor9100hey quick question. Do you think it should be legal to force someone to use their body to keep someone else alive? That sounds like a human rights violation
Then if we're on the same page with that, it should extend to pregnant people with babies. Simple as that.
The best argument is the religious freedom argument. The idea of whether an embryo or fetus is a human baby is not a scientific question and is entirely a religious/spiritual one. Many religions have very different perspectives on the topic. The Jewish perspective is that life begins at birth when God breathes the soul of life, I think Islam is around 16 weeks you can have an abortion and Christianity is all over the map.
It's not a religious one, it's a moral one. Pro-lifers don't think this is bad because an Old Man On the Cloud told them so, they know it's immoral to terminate an innocent human life.
I can't believe people actually want to legalize forced birth. Mind blowing.
You mean not killing your child?
@@SaintSC05Yeah kinda crazy when you force rape victims to give birth
That's the real issue here. Politicians make you believe that to divide the society and use one group against the other.
No sane pro-lifer's goal is to force births. No sane pro-choicer wants women to be able to murder other lives at a whim. If you realize that, you know you've been fooled, led to believe there are only 2 solutions here.
If politicians wanted to resolve this issue, they would find 3rd or even 4th choice (e.g. working on/off contraceptive or transplantation to artificial womb). It's just a matter of spending enough money on proper science.
My mom was a rape baby. Her mother was 16 and had to testify in court when she was eight months pregnant with my mother against the rapist. If my mother had been aborted, I wouldn’t be here. My siblings wouldn’t be here. My children wouldn’t be here. And out of 6 million babies that have been aborted nobody can give a hard number as to how many of those were rape. If most of those were rape babies, then we have a much bigger problem, we have rampant rape going on. Which, of course we don’t in those abortion numbers. Everyone I know that got an abortion was not raped. They just didn’t want the baby or to be mother’s right now.
Excellent thank you Lila! ❤ This is so true
I wish people on BOTH sides would bring up the fact that the perpetrator CAN sue for custody/visitation. I even heard a woman talking about how hard it has been that she had this baby and the perp was IN JAIL for what he did to her to create that child so theres no question of his guilt. He dragged her to court and won visitation so a judge forced her to visit him in prison every other weekend with the baby and when he gets out she will be forced to keep bringing him that child. That is absolutely inhumane and i know how important fathers are but when hes convicted of that then he needs to be barred from ever interacting with mom or baby again.
I appreciate the request to see the other’s pov. Have to look up what Destiny’s answer was.
I don't understand why incest is always listed separately from rape. Isn't it a subset of rape? Doesn't rape cover incest?
In the full conversation, they had already went over this specific scenario, and Destiny had reasonable answers for it, but she kept circling back to this talking point to generate a good clip where Destiny was tired of answering the same thing so it makes her look better when he appears bored. It was super bad faith half the time and most people are never going to watch the full length conversation where Lila kept hiding from the fact that she also values "conscious life" over the simple organism.
None of his answers were reasonable.
Yeah none of his answers were actual answers, nor were they reasonable. In totality i could only conclude that his positions is that abortion is okay "just because". None of what he says has logic based on reality to it, it's all logic based on emotive motivaters that empathize the mothers of abortions as the victims for some reason.
And she kept circling back because he didn't seem to comprehend anything she was saying. That seems to be the case on every podcast I've seen him guest appear on.
@@eats4cheaps305 You clearly are either not watching these podcast or just bad faith like Lila. The consciousness argument already is more reasonable than hers. She keeps misinterpreting his viewpoint on bad faith and even in this clip because in a coma was already stated to not be the same due to preexisting consciousness and those experiences.
I would rather be dead than to be born to parents who thought about aborting me.
And then the victim is facing a possible lifetime of guilt for aborting the baby as well as facing the original trauma.
Nearly all of us champion the individual who turns the vicious thing into a life-affirming triumph. That way, the monster doesn't walk off w/ the win . We have the power to overcome the blow with GOOD (says the girl who had two abortions and completely gets it). They did not bring me JOY ppl. I wish I had them with me -today. The love investment would have cancelled the mess by a million %.
You really believe that allowing the victim to not have to bear and raise the rapist's baby is a win for the RAPIST?
The most solid argument, not most compelling, is a "lack of controle of values" argument. No one chooses what they value or believe. If you do or don't value the life, there's no explanation needed. That doesn't win a debate, but there's not counter arguments.
She’s what a lady is supposed to be
The best argument for pro-choice is hearing pro-life people saying no abortions are okay. If the choice is between allowing all abortions but still being able to consider ‘abortion as a means of birth control’ repugnant or not allowing abortion in any case regardless of circumstance… sorry, I’m pro-choice.
I would say the argument I’m a little cloudy on retorting is “What if it’s going to kill the mother to give birth?” In that case then yeah it makes sense to me to abort
Late term abortions are never medically necessary. It actually takes longer to perform a late term abortion than it does to induce the mother or give an emergency c-section. In the case of ectopic pregnancy, which is determined earlier on, medical treatment is given to save the mother.
Sadly, some women claim they had an abortion to save their life when they weren't life or death conditions like hyperemesis gravidarum (severe morning sickness).
No State has outlawed (ever!) terminating a pregnancy when the life of the mother is at stake. And morally, it is seen as self-defense. But I have heard some pro-abortion politicians LIE to make it sound like pro-life people want to force women to give birth in these life and death situations.
yeah, thing is the never really happens. What does happen are situations where the mother must undergo a procedure which could kill the baby. When it comes to late term There is always the option to take the baby out in a way that keeps it alive. There is no reason to not attempt to save the baby. when it comes to early term where we arent quite at having infastrastructure/technology to save them yet I understand, but these arent really abortions either. not sure if its the most common, but one of the commonly used examples is when a pregnant woman has cancer and treating the cancer either will, or has a risk, of killing the baby. These are not considered abortions.
I guess i mean those situations where it’s the choice between mother and baby. But maybe that’s mostly the movies lol
@@ConspiracyCinema yeah that never happens. probably a single digit number of cases documented in American history.
The strongest argument (and why I'm pro choice), is that women deserve bodily autonomy. Saying ever pregnancy must be carried to term requires eveey woman to give up her body for a complete stranger.
The next generation will one day ask the majority from this generation, "How is it that you did nothing to stop the killing?".
World will only get more evil more than likely, unfortunately.
You know that in the rest of the western world abortion accessible to women
If not punish a baby that is as she said, has a low level on consciousness, then you’d be punishing the mother to have the baby AND be punishing the baby to a life where you were conceived by rape and furthermore will be destined to be in foster care which is an incredibly unregulated system.
The thing is though is once that person punishment is up they can gain legal custody or duel custody and that women or child is going to be forced to meet their abuser which isn't fair I'm pro choice
I would say the best argument is Ectopic Pregnancy. Thats the only time that a mother is truly at risk. All other instances are incorrect. Not only that, but most doctors are wrong about requiring Cesarian deliveries. Bring back midwives. They can deliver babies in just about any situation.
There is no "best" argument cos there are no good pro-choice arguments in the first place
I will never respect a woman that chose to get an abortion. Even in the worst scenarios, you will never be able to justify brutally killing a baby. Only the wicked & evil will try to justify this.
*barf*
Don’t guilt trip victims of sex-crimes into living out a life sentence for the consequences of a crime they themselves didn’t comit!
Same for the unborn child. Another victim, of his own father, and also condemned to a life sentence of suffering.
Nobody deserves this, the victim nor the unborn. Women should be able to make choices for themselves and family-future, or present. And that ought to include access to abortion services.
The problem with what this woman is saying even if a woman is raped, or even if the woman might die because of child birth is that none of these things is that babies fault.
Nonetheless I still believe if either of these things were the case like if this were my wife going through this I would tell her to make the decision and I would support her for it.
Even still after all this, Abortions due to rape or risks to the mother's life are relatively uncommon compared to other reasons. According to various studies and data:
- Abortions due to rape account for about 1% of all abortions.
- Abortions due to a threat to the mother's life or health make up about 3-4% of abortions.
These statistics vary depending on the source and the region, but these percentages are generally consistent across a lot of studies conducted in the U.S. and globally.
I think the best argument for abortion for rape is the idea that the woman didn't choose to be pregnant, and despite whether or not the child is innocent, one could argue you have the right to kill anyone who is invading your body or causing you harm.
If a little kid was running at a crowd of people with a bomb jacket on, I don’t think it's immoral to kill the kid if he won't stop running, despite him being an innocent child forced into mass murder. Same logic applies to an unborn child and it's very hard for me to find a logical argument against it other than this:
The child is not actually harming you, mental harm does not justify physical harm, and even if it did, the severity of the punishment does not match the crime, it is not okay to end a life (something that you cannot recover from) of an innocent person for an offense that is not tangible, questionable to blame on the child (maybe it's YOU who is actually just weak), is curable AND WILL for sure end in 9 months.
But you're still saying that even if a child gets raped, impregnated and doesn't want to give birth, that she doesn't have a choice but to give birth. If pro choice is pro abortion than prolife is pro child pregnancy
Pro life is pro birth. Thats when their 'caring ' ends
@@wyleecoyotee4252not true. Who is running the shelters? The orphanages? The donation drives? Th free charities? Not you "pro death" people.
A child conceived through rape is not definied by his or her way of conception. He or she is not the father's copy because a child is no prolonged sperm.
I think the best argument surrounds when society deems it appropriate to end life. We allow it in some cases, IVF, war, death penalty, self defense. Whether or not it’s conscious, etc is inconsequential. It’s a life and you will be taking it if aborted.
HOWEVER,I’m okay with allowing other people to make that decision for themselves, only in this situation. This only applies to abortion, a few other things, and that’s okay. It does not mean this should be the precedent for other laws.
I could never have an abortion bcuz I believe it’s killing my children and my beliefs say that’s not okay.
The one I've never heard a good one against is: children and adults are not allowed to use other people's bodies to stay alive if they were otherwise going to die. Why should unborn babies have this right? I can't use your blood if I need it and you don't consent to it.
Are you dense?
I have never heard an argument from an abortionist that even kind of made sense on its face, let alone one that was actually good.
Genuine question. What does pro life get wrong? The pro life side is losing - why? What needs to change?
It's like deciding who's more important between 2 people.
Is the rape survivor more important or is the new life more important.
Rape survivor can be broken by the pregnancy and child birth.
The fetus will not be born.
The whole argument is just where you place your values.
The answer is easy… instead of abortion, give the baby up for adoption. Lots of would-be parents out there who are dying to receive such a blessing.
Lila Rose you are in my daily prayers to fight the good fight every single day -
She said nothing new 🤡 if someone is graped they most definitely should have the option to abort. End of story. No further discussion needed.
Its none of her business
Get our of my body
Its not political
It medical and personal
It's also moral. Hands off of that body.
Abortion is traumatic. So even more trauma after the traumatic event
I love live action and students for life and all their speakers they have. I love Kristen Hawkins so much as well, but, man… there’s just something about Lila. She is so loving yet so strong and well-spoken. I see so many strong pro-life/conservative women making amazing points, but Lila just does it with such grace, intelligence, and, most importantly, LOVE! I just think she models Jesus so well, and she’s a woman, and as a woman it’s great to see a proper, Godly leader for us. God continue to bless her and her work. Thank you LORD!
Another angle to debate the pro choice rape case is with the execution argument. I’ve found most pro-choicers are against the death penalty. So I usually ask, how do they justify allowing a murderer to live (who has themselves, committed horrific crimes) but then kill an unborn child for the crimes of their father? It boils down to (usually) keeping the murderer alive has zero impact on their lives but the unborn child directly impacts their lives, bottom line, raising a baby is inconvenient 🤷🏿♂️
The argument of emotional trauma has never really added up because the child can be given away to a loving family through adoption very easily. It's fairly illogical to commit a heinous act because of a heinous act. It follows the same concept as if you decided to punish and kill a 2 year old because the father of that kid abused the mother. No one would do that, so it just loops back around to the "when does life begin" or the "lump of cells" arguments, which are both logically flawed to the extreme. In the end its either pro life or stuck in an infinite loop, so only one path is actually logical.
While I don't want a child punished fir the crimes if the father, I think a day-after pill should be standard in cases of Rape.
Destiny isn't actually very intelligent. I don't think he understands that fact.
Of the 12,000 3rd trimester abortions every year, 80% are healthy babies of no threat to healthy mothers.
- "The truth about late term abortions" - National Review
The young girls in these tragic situations are turned into a victim again when they try to deal with the abortion that they have had.
No, killing the unborn of a rape victim will cause further trauma...let them give their child life, and the chance to let someone else love them in spite of the evil done...
The point of the matter is, it's a choice and it should be a choice. A woman has a right to decide whats best for her. That fundamental right of autonomy over your own body shouldn't be taken away by people in the government or anybody else.
i think when i was r*ped if had gone to the police, or hospital, and they offered me counseling, help with medical care, the chance to leave the situation for something better. i would have kept that kid 100%. and even without all that, i still would have kept it. i just couldn't have done something horrible to something so wonderful and innocent.
I read all these comments against abortion yet not a single comment from anyone who has adopted a child or from anyone authorizing Congress to raise your taxes so these children can be raised in a home where the mother has dignity to go along with the extra responsibility she took on. Unfortunately your concern for that “unborn” child stops at birth. Let’s raise everyone’s taxes 5% and then do away with abortions, and give that tax money to those women. I can hear the men cussing already!
I'm pro-choice because I don't want anyone, and I mean ANYONE, to have a say on what I get to do with my body because it is my body. The only time anyone will have a say is if I have legally appointed them in extreme cases where I cannot speak for myself. It's that simple.
The problem is being pro-choice is automatically connected to abortion and the emotional manipulation of that debate. Some realities to abortion is considering extremes only, but for me, IF abortion is an option, it would NEVER be an easy option and it would honestly depend on the circumstances of the pregnancy. People forget that not all pregnancies are created equal and some are very hard on the woman and can kill the woman too. In the end, regardless of it all, the circumstances of the pregnancy is what will determine the option of an abortion.
Basically, my stance as Pro-Choice is to have absolute power and say over my own body.
The problem is that it's not only your body at stake. You don't have two hearts and two brains, and you have no say on whether someone else should live or die.
That being said, if we spent 1/2 the energy we're spending on arguing, we could find a solution that is both pro-life and pro-choice. So you keep your bodily autonomy and innocent humans are not murdered anymore.
@@jaceksiuda Except that it is my body that would be at stake. If my body cannot handle the pregnancy, there would be no baby. If the baby, for whatever reason, does not live despite being in my body, then that baby would have to be removed or my body runs the risk of losing the option or ability to have a baby OR risk dying. No matter what, it's my body at risk first which means it would be my life at risk.
I agree that I have no say on whether someone else should live or die, but I sure as hail have a say on whether I live or die. I reiterate my statement: the circumstances of the pregnancy will determine the option of abortion.
The laws don't differentiate between spontaneous abortions and voluntary abortions. Also, doesn't acknowledge when the fetus will not survive to viability but need to carry it until it dies on its own or they give birth to a dead baby or a baby that dies within hours.
"Love your enemies" - New Testament.
" Mary your rapist" - Old Testament.
Dude. That last claim is not in the book. If you distort the book, you could convince someone like yourself it is there, but the scripture you are thinking of refers to out of wedlock heterosexual intercourse.
Incest would be the acceptation for me, especially if the mother is a minor and a victim of rape.
You don’t react to violence with more violence. You react to it with love, compassion, and understanding. If you don’t want the baby, that’s fine, but at least give it up for adoption to a couple who is loving and would cherish and break a generational curse. I would do that I would keep my baby, no matter what the circumstance is. Because I could never imagine answering evil with evil. It’s not in me.
20,000 kids age out of the adoption system each year. Maybe we should lessen that number first before adding onto it.
Also pregnancy will change your body forever. Your teeth can fall out. Your body can stop working properly. You can DIE. And who's gonna pay for those medical bills, huh? Are you made of money? You wanna go do that
No? That's what I thought. Shut up and mind your buisness.
The best argument is that while it is wrong it is not a government or congresses place to make the decision about a woman’s body.
Im not a supporter of rampant abortion, but I wouldn’t want to force a woman who was raped to carry, deliver, and then care for a baby that is the result of rape if they didnt want to. I would imagine if I were in the woman’s position, it’s possible that the baby would be a constant reminder of being violated, forever. I lean more pro life, but im not completely against abortions for those who have good reason. I dont think much of the argument of “but its a human life” because the same people who say that are not the people who will have to care for the child after its born, and they wont be in its life. They ride a moral high horse while being completely disconnected from the result. If somebody said “Please dont kill that child, I will raise it in your stead, and ensure it has a wonderful life” then they would have more to stand on, but thats not the case. We know that one of the biggest issues with a child growing up can be the lack of both parents in the household, yet the same people who know this will push for the child to be born just because, knowing it could be detrimental to how that child will be raised. That being said, I would agree with them that those who use abortion as a form of birth control are abhorrent. We should go back to “Safe, legal, and rare”.
This women is overly simplistic in her idea of how this situation would be handled. The USA does not have the ability to provide sufficient medical care to its average citizen. How does she expect a whole team of support to magically surround a victim of rape during and post pregnancy? Who will foot the bill for all that medical/psychological support - let alone the hospital bill for the birth and all the baby’s lifelong needs that follow? When will her psychological support end and who will be there to take care of her while she has to take care of the child of her rapist?
The problem is not everyone believes a fetus is a baby. Not human. Therefore has no bearing on whether there should or should not be legal abortions.
Too much of this is arbitrary on the prolife side. Religion is a HUGE part and this is a land where religion does not have a foothold in crafting laws.
This has nothing to do with religion. This has to do with an action that if done outside the womb, is murder, but because you can’t see it, it isn’t.
This is not a religious issue at all ,a fetus is entirely a human ,it's pure biology
That’s always my thought. Yes it’s absolutely horrendous, but as awful as it is, the baby is innocent. It breaks my heart for the woman, but also for the child. It’s a no win solution because either way someone gets hurt
Good lord, to everyone who’s arguing for abortion:
I am currently pregnant. This is my 3rd pregnancy. Not all of them were planned, the first two were not.
Not coming from a place of emotion, but from logic and experience, to say that the child that’s currently growing in my body isn’t a human being and isn’t alive is ridiculous.
I’m 16 weeks along. They respond to noises they hear, to food I eat, they get hiccups, they have fingers and toes and ears, they have their own face: they are their own person and deserve the same rights as any other person. Anyone who argues that they are lesser than or aren’t alive/human need to grow up and face reality.
This child is dependent upon me as the mother to nurture it and help it grow, just like it would OUTSIDE of the womb. Even my 4 year old needs me to help them live because they can’t take care of themselves.
If you want to kill a child out of convenience, then say so, don’t hide behind 1% cases that don’t even make up a majority of abortions. Don’t hide behind “your definitions” or “your truth” like a coward.
Ultimately, abortions end with a child’s life ending. And even after care is excruciating for women, especially mentally. Why? Because that’s from their bodies grieving for what’s been lost and their minds trying to justify the horrific thing they’ve done.
Of course there are worst case scenarios where it’s almost impossible to decide what to do, but what most people are fighting for is their own selfish lifestyle and lack of responsibility.
GROW UP people.
Sacrificing children to save yourself some real responsibility shows how inhuman and selfish you truly are.
The right side of the debate is the side that can argue the best points for the opposition, and still defeat them. Lila Rose for the win! Humanity wins!
She didn’t summarize destiny’s argument at all…. It’s not are you conscious, it’s when do you get human rights, his belief is when a fetus develops the anatomy to have/experience consciousness.
If you were raped, you should have the choice to terminate. But we shouldn’t be pushing abortion and we should provide alternative options for women who plan to keep the babies.