Perish Song COULDN'T Beat 1 Billion Lions!
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- Опубликовано: 28 сен 2024
- A lot of people think that a single pokemon with the move Perish Song would be capable of defeating 1 billion lions single handedly. Today, I'm busting out every physics trick in the book to prove them wrong!
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Hey everyone, just a quick update, I made a pretty big mistake in my explanation of Decibels! Decibels aren't simply the ratio of 2 intensities, it's the LOG of the ratio of 2 intensities. That's how it's possible to have a sound of 0 dB, or even less in theory. It doesn't affect any of the actual numbers from the video, we used the simplified 6 dB per distance doubled rule so we didn't have to deal with intensities at all, just wanted to clear that up! Always double check your formulas, folks!
What are the odds that at least some of the lion's are deaf and would be unaffected by perish song?
Exploud would probably make half of them deaf
I'm not sure what the deafness rate for lions is, but there is even a single deaf lion out of the 40,000 that actually exist in real life, then the odds of at least 1 out of a billion being deaf is about as close to 100% as you can get
@@TheChiptide take that pokemon defenders!
Deafness doesn't make you immune too sound, tho.
@@matthewpletsch7523 deaf people when they are hit by the blast of a nuclear bomb: bit windy innit
Chiptide, you showed weakness on the finish line. Based on the end gag, Perish Song is lethal in recorded form. Therefore we are no longer limited by PP.
Everyone on team Pokémon’s out here talking about pokemon gods unmaking the universe and lava slugs hotter than the sun, they’re missing the obvious strategy of just waiting for the pokemon to invent an MP3 player!
@@TheChiptidethere’s alakazam, metagross and a thousand other hyperintelligent inventors, they could probably mass produce hundreds of them before the lions get within 10 metres of the nearest one. Especially accounting for bulldoze spam and a bunch of ranged weapons
There’s like, a bunch of problems with this, but you actually hit on the biggest one right at the end by accident: logistics. You don’t have 1 billion lions, you have 25 million prides of 40 lions, a highly territorial predatory animal. I don’t know if you have cats, but I have a bunch of rescues and some of them can’t be in the same room or they’ll tear each other apart and they’re happy and well fed. Cramming a billion of them into any kind of space where they would have some kind of conflict with 1025 Pokémon would probably go pretty badly from a lion perspective. If you’ve ever read the xkcd What If Everyone Jumped, they made a case that putting every human in the same place at the same time would obviously not effect the path of the earth, it would probably kill off a large portion of the population from panic, violence and lack of resources, and that’s humans, not large angry cats. Lions require between 5 and 7kg of meat per day, and there’s again, only 1025 Pokémon, many of which are inorganic, intangible or otherwise not edible, and a bunch of them are probably also trying their level best to take each other out with lasers and kaiju. And yeah, lions are cannibalistic. I would submit that the biggest threat to a billion lions is a billion lions and they would probably stay the hell away from the extra dimensional monsters with super powers.
9:23 a sound of 0db is very possible. 0db is not silence. You even stated earlier that the scale is generally set so that 0db is the threshold for human hearing. Decibels are based on the *logarithm* of the ratio of intensities, so 0db just means the intensities are equal. The inverse square law doesn't allow the intensities to be exactly zero, but that's not necessary to have 0db.
Silence is -∞dB. It is indeed impossible to get -∞dB for the reasons you describe, but it's not the bar you set for where the range of perish song would be
Yeah, I realized I totally messed that up after the fact... I was losing my mind trying to figure out why 0 dB was the threshold for hearing if it was mathematically impossible, but it turns out I just didn't know how to read!
I think we're not considering abilities and the fact that there's literal arena effects, like sandstorm and shadow tag... like, wouldn't that kill all of the lion? Unless they can terastilize k
Jks aside, some pokemon such as mewtwo and alakazam can comunicate telepathically and also strategize, no? They would know better than letting their partners in the field when the sand bringers were aproaching
rayquaza really letting all the weather setters down with their air lock
16:00
I expected the twist at the end to be that since perish song takes 3 turns to take effect, the pokemon would only get 3 uses of Perish Song instead of all 8
giving soundproof to every perish song user couldnt enable to use all pp ?
It could, but none of the Pokemon that can learn Perish Song could have Soundproof as an ability
@@17abcdghMr mime can copy it with mimetic or however is called.
If Mr mime learns recycle and holds the leppa berry, infite pp
The funniest part of this video is that you could just say Perish Song hits all Pokemon on the fields but doesn't hit the trainers so... either we have a maximum distance or non-Pokemon might be immune (ignore the can of worms about humans being a species of Pokemon).
also even if the lions were affected..
switching out or fleeing stops perish song
and sure, maybe a trapping move was used to stop the lion from leaving... but using roar on a target forces them to switch out or flee, and this occurs even if the target is trapped. and roar can be used on teammates
so the lions just gotta roar at each other
Ye humans are pokemon
There are humans who can see all your future
@@zacknattack Ahh but you see there is a difference between roaring, and using roar.
To use roar, the lions must first read "Sun tzu: The Art of Roar"
@@DomP001 sun tzu can use roar but lions can't? got it, i guess
If this scenario is literally just pokemon vs lions, ghost types are literally immune to normal types, if the lions aren't magical, the lions can literally not touch ghost types at all, also, what the hell is the 1 billion lions gonna do about arceus deciding that they don't exist
struggle can hit ghosts and struggle is typeless, lions arent pokemon so they are typeless
also if you really wanna assign types to lions then lions use bite which is super effective against ghosts
@@idolofvines7863 in the world of pokemon, normal animals are given the normal type
The lions aren’t Pokémon, they’re lions. There’s no reason to expect they would get struggle or any other moves.
@@idolofvines7863 still, what are the lions gonna do about arceus just deciding that they don't exist anymore
You basing this on triple battles is the error. This is a wild horde battle, and things like surf hit everyone in wild hordes.
horde battles are the 1v5 right?
horde battles are just triple battles where all 5 of the spaces are considered opponent spaces
@@zacknattack
This is the kind of intellectual dishonesty I expected from a lion defender. XD
@@beauvoirferril sure whatever you say mate
@@beauvoirferril i mean it's not like one can just go onto bulbapedia and read how horde battles are so directly based on triple battles that there's literally glitches involving moves that target adjacent allies showing targeting stuff over opponents
"In Pokémon X and Y, if the player selects a move that targets an adjacent ally, the user's spot is not highlighted, while the spots of the two opponents in the places where the Pokémon allies would be in a Triple Battle are highlighted"
nah it's just intellectual dishonesty babe, totally
@@zacknattack Damn, this got as heated as my holiday family dinners. No need to be so hostile. (This part is directed at the other guy too, but I can only tag one of you at a time and you're the primary one I'm responding to.)
Maybe it's based on triple battles. Maybe there's a glitch in the programming. I don't see how either of those would matter. Let me elaborate a bit on my logic since my original post was just a quickie.
Double battles are always trainer v trainer. Triple battles are always trainer v trainer. Horde battles are the only type of battle we see where wild pokemon are involved. Now, maybe the pokemon have trainers or maybe they don't, usually not. But the lions are definitely best modeled as wild. That rules out using double or triple battles as a model. Horde battles are thus the only available battle type we can use to model this. Oh uh, I just realized, unstated assumption. So for full clarity: we dont want to use the anime or pokedex information because its wildly inconsistent and also, frankly, the pokemon easily win and that's just not a fin discussion. That's why we're looking for a game based model. It needs the pokemon enough to make the discussion interesting. So that's my logic for horde battle as a model, it's the only way to model the lions.
In horde battles, you press Surf and you hit all the pokemon in the battle (other than yourself.) This is clearly different from triple battles, so it being based on triple battles (if true) doesn't matter because it doesn't override it. It's the other way around. If it's a glitch, that also doesn't matter because we would first have to determine if it's a glitch, then we'd have to determine what original programmer intent was. And at that point we're just speculating and it might as well be a discussion that includes the pokedex. Speculation is what we're using this model to avoid in the first place.
So yeah, ultimately I dont think what you brought up really means anything to my point. Hopefully the clarification helps.
The actual method for defeating 1-billion lions is Sand Stream. Sandstorm deals 1/16th of a creature's HP and unlike spread moves it doesn't have a range limit. In Generations 3-5 weather setting abilities were permanent, meaning a single baby Hippopotas can do enough damage to defeat all 1 billion lions, and all of the Rock, Ground, Steel, Overcoat, and Magic Guard Pokemon will be completely fine. And we know from Ruby, Sapphire, and Emerald that weather setting abilities in generation 3 can affect an entire region. No PP needed, long enough range, and plenty of time to sit and wait for lion extinction.
And you will see someone saying something like "lion cave"
@@josecorzo5517 And we will still be correct. Weather moves and abilities can be used in caves, ergo caves to not protect from sandstorm damage.
rayquaza letting the team down
We basically gotta make Rayquaza attack a Cofigrigus or something for this strategy to work. The Air should be Unlocked.
Even if you ignore sound absorption, a pokemon can only use perish song 3 times before it faints itself. The only way around that is for every single one to have soundproof, which isn’t the case. Even revival blessing wouldn’t change that, because that move only has 1 pp and only 2 pokemon learn it.
Here's a few points I came up with off the top of my head.
1. Gardevoir isn't the only pokemon that can make a black hole. Many also Pokemon actually have the capacity to create mini black holes through the Dark-type Z-Move Black Hole Eclipse. Also, many Pokemon can manipulate gravity with the move... Gravity, so it's safe to assume *at very least* that the more powerful Pokemon that can do this would be able to survive this.
2. The plot of Pokemon Mystery Dungeon Red/Blue Rescue Team builds up to the protags going to Rayquaza to stop a *world-ending* threat, which turned out to be a meteor. Rayquaza destroyed that meteor with a SINGLE Hyper Beam.
3. In Pokkén Tournament, the final boss Shadow Mewtwo has the *potential* to singlehandedly threaten the entire planet, which it shows a bit of with its super move Dark Nova.
Just a few, mind you.
One thing to consider, even in the ideal situation proposed at 15:51, perish song effects the user as well. Meaning they’d faint before they’re able to use all 8 pp of perish song.
the thing i hate about this question is how much you have to limit the pokemon for the lions to win. if you let pokemon be lore-accurate, the lions are fucked 12 ways from sunday.
lion defenders are actually brain dead
no, thou just has to consider three things:
1: there's a billion lions
2: there's only so many lions one can kill before getting tired
3: not everything in the pokédex can be taken at face value. the magcargo temperature thing was definitely some random 8 year old who was exaggerating
@@zacknattack yeah, these apples and oranges comparison will always still depends on how you set the rules. There seemingly is always more to consider.
How would you translate game/anime/spinoff mechanics? Do you try to translate Lions into pokemon?
Lions can get tired too depending on how you set the fight (single/multi battle, turnbased/realtime, etc). Would you give them dark type moves to damage ghosts? Can they learn protect? How much do you account for pokemon AOE damage?
Yeah when I read the ignoring pokedex thing I just realized the lion defenders are just stupid. Waste of time 😂
@@Talking_Ed does thou really believe slugma are hotter than the sun? what's thy opinion on kadabra? one entry states a kid suddenly turned into one. another says that's a well known legend. a third states that it is a rumor but there is absolutely no evidence for it and it's likely false.
The fact that lions are separated in groups of 40 makes it easier for team pokemon, yeah pps are limited, but it is comprobated that a night of sleep restores health and pps, gg lion team
I think you severely over complicated this. The move doesn’t affect the human trainers, which means it doesn’t affect non-Pokémon. Lions are not Pokémon, thus Perish Song doesn’t affect them. No math nor research needed. 🤷♀️
true then guzzlord pops out of the 4th dimension and literally consumes 1 billion lions no problem at all
Perish song hits everything one the field. Including the pokemon. not just the lions. But, the soundproof pokemon would survive.
Dude, Arceus is literally God, he wins alone without any help. There’s also Ghost Types, which the lions literally can’t touch.
The lions’ counter (if smart enough… I don’t know how you kids have been arguing…):
…
Roar real loud. Drown out the song.
funny thing is that's actually a counter if we go by battle mechanics:
perish song ends if the target switches. therefore for best use a pokémon needs to use a trapping move or ability on the lion. however, roar forces the target to switch even if they're trapped. so if a group of lions get trapped + perish song'd, they'd have to roar at each other to switch and remove the perish song
Aren't lions, like, pretty big? And long? I can't imagine one fitting in a 0.55m square.
What about psychic pokemon? In theory, psychic pokemon could play perish song telepathically, which gets around the perish song range :P
Bro seriously used *game mechanics* to explain why EARTHQUAKE wouldn't be able to hit a target more than a few feet away?
I love how your own methodology proved you wrong 90% of the way through the video and you still changed the goal posts to feel right. Also, several of the pokemon that learn perish song are much closer to humans than animals, particularly jynx and meloetta, so it might make more sense to use the data from the Guinness book of world records that a human voice can carry up to 8 miles. And even putting that aside, there’s a pretty simple way around the power point issue, skill swap harvest and trick a leppa berry, thus replenishing the PP by 5 with a 50% occurrence, 100% in harsh sunlight. It’s a standard practice for shiny hunting hard to catch Pokémon so they don’t struggle themselves to death. Doesn’t work on the paradoxes but it doesn’t need to.
as a realistic answer, perish song would barely go beyond the field as (to my knowledge) we aren't seeing every rattata around the stadium die as well, so thats your realistic answer. morever to allow perish song to kill the lions we need to abide to the turn system so thats a max of 3 per pokemon as the user perishes too, so uhhh bit of a problem there even if we do assume perfect conditions for the pokemon here we can only get off 3*17 not 8*17
Wait, that's not how decibels work, dB = 10 log(I/I_0).
I_0 is 1e-12 W/m^2
Zero decibels is entirely possible. Negitive decibels are also possible, we just don't hear it, using a cicada at 0.5m is at most 110dB using the equation from before we get an intesity of 0.1 W/m^2. Then we need to find the distance at which the intensity of the sound becomes I_0 (1e-12), call it d_0, we can do this knowing the intial distance (d_i=0.5m) and initial intensity (I_i=0.1 W/m^2).
From the inverse square law we would get d_0^2=(d_i^2)(I_i)/(I_0)
Coming out to 1.58e5 m or nearly 160km (this assumes no obstructions or weird refraction effects, please don't get me started).
Without the math which is unfortunately hard to follow (sorry RUclips comments aren't meant for this)
0 decibels is fully possible it just requires an intensity of I_0 (pronounced I naught) at the observer.
Also, since decibels use log base 10 not base 2 an increase a 30dB sound is 10 times louder than a 20dB sound (this is why the -6dB rule is a thing for doubling distance).
If you want to discuss this further let me know. Frankly I think your only really problem is you somehow found dB =I_1/I_2 which is just... wrong (at least for this, maybe there is a different dB that works like that).
I think this is a really cool video which talks about some very cool things but since you were working off a faulty sense of decibels unfortunately most of the analysis doesn't really map to reality.
I recommend a follow up video explaining decibels more accurately. If I recall correctly highschool physics teachers (at least in Canada) teach this stuff so if you want a straight forward explanation without the academic rabbit hole I recommend talking to one.
I am sorry if this comes across as harsh this is not my intention but I do think you should take a second look. If you look up physics sound practice problems you should be able to get a good grip on this stuff.
The real reason why all pokemon would win in my opinion is because they have pokemon like Mewtwo who can use strategy. If all the pokemon are just using moves randomly then it is a lot less likely that any of the truly most broken strategies would happen by chance, like skill swapping wonder guard onto pokemon that aren't Shedinja or whatever. But, given moves like instruct, and pokemon with super high intelligence like Mewtwo, Alakazam, and Arceus (I assume Arceus is very smart, but I don't know if that is necessarily backed up).
I have always been a Pokémon supporter in this argument. Like it’s a no brainer! But then I watched a RUclipsr by the name of Astroid Videos (it’s a good watch) and he simulated every Pokémon battle, and the lions won by a landslide. Guess I’m a lion supporter now.
The thing is, that simulation was not perfect. First and foremost, it equates lions to Pokémon and essentially turns them into one, which is not the case. The whole debate of Lions v. Pokémon is partly based on their different abilities and differences in general. Lions aren’t Pokémon, and Pokémon aren’t real animals, hence part of the complexity of this debate. Furthermore, the simulation Asteroid Videos used had all the Lions going one by one, which-while admittedly a funny visual-is not at all realistic to expect of Lions. Due to this, the possibility is opened up for moves to hit multiple Lions at once; moves like Earthquake, Surf, Explosion, etc. His simulation is also only taking into account strictly the *games* interpretation of the Pokémon. There are several more interpretations, including the shows, Pokédex, and Manga versions of them, all with differences, both big and small. For example, Arceus in the games is several times over implied to have started the universe and basically be a stand-in for God. However, his actual stats and gameplay do not reflect this “almighty power”. Asteroid Videos’s simulation, while certainly admirable for its attempt to put this age-old question to rest, is not the final say in whether Pokémon or Lions win in the end.
@@Gl1tchyR0botthe Arceus variants we interact with are its avatars, literal fragments of its being
@@gameinsane4718 You're right about that, I will concede on that point.
I'm surprised he didnt alsomake the point that the background noise level of 1000s of pokemon and 1 billion lions fighting wouldn't be natures normal 40 dB and would further decrease the range of perish song.
zero sounds when gardevoir opens a black hole to consume 1 billion lions in mere seconds
@@jake9107and then the black hole also eats the planet and all the pokémon. good job.
either the black hole entry is just bull or it's not a black hole black hole but actually something like the move dark void
@@zacknattack ok? does it or does it not destroy 1 billion lions?
@@jake9107 if it destroys everyone on both sides that's a draw, babe
@@zacknattack so it does destroy 1 billion lions? sounds like the debate is over
You put way too much effort into this video. It’s deserves like 15k views
Haven't started the video yet, just here to say that there's the move "Shadow Half" that 4 Pokemon learn that, like Perish Song, target THE WHOLE FIELD, and halve the current HP of everything on the field. 4 halvings would leave the lions with 6.25% HP, meaning that if we had the Shadow Arbok, Hitmonlee, Electabuzz, and Swellow and something to set up Sandstorm or Hail, we've got our solution.
12:32 Here to say that I appreciate the benefit of the doubt we're being granted, there are more than 17 mons that learn it if you count the ones who learn it by breeding and thus their evolutions (not counting the overlap between those who'd get it via breeding and level up) plus counting other Pokemon who could get it via things like mimic, copycat, transform etc.
It's so fucking over, we're cooked. Damn you, Lion Believers...
@@ZunkleFunkle noo dont lose hope quite yet!
I did the powerscaling and Lion attacks are about 3585 tons of tnt, and they have similar durability. (Small town level)
One single instance where groudon alone raised the continents, comes out to a whopping 216.31 Petatons (Multi-Continent level)
So if we go by real life physics and rules and not game logic, which is where the pokemon are the most nerfed from their actual lore anyways, lions stand no chance.
This whole debate is so dumb, friendly reminder ONE OF THEM IS LITERAL GOD!
Has anyone discussed sandstorm chip from something like aerodactyl?
Well the Perish song users wouldn't be capable of using all 8 pp because they would faint after 3 moves
All of this is p useless. The trainer doesn't faint upon hearing Perish song, implying it doesn't affect non-Pokemon.
...Unless humans happen to be the only animals this immunity applies to and this is why animals are extinct in the Pokemon world despite the heavy implications of Poke-world humans being vaguely aware of them (as the Pokedex categories are often named after them)
The Perish Song user could easily have the ability to choose who it affects.
@@derbyt Then why would they consistently choose to affect themselves and all of their (other) allies in double/triple battles tho
Humans in the Pokemon world have psychic powers & magic powers, and historical documents indicate that there used to be no difference between humans and Pokemon. Ergo, humans are a type of Pokemon.
All of this is pretty meaningless, though. Perish Song doesn't actually kill, it just makes the listener faint.
@@normal6483 Those "historical documents" are explicitly mythology and shouldn't be taken as hard evidence.
@@normal6483 No Pokemon moves kill because it's a kids game. They all make the target(s) faint. We can assume in this scenario that "fainting" a lion would kill it.
The perish song users wouldn't be able to survive long enough to use up all their perish song PP without a trainer to put them back in a pokeball since they will also be affected by their own perish song timer.
The whole "they would run out of PP" argument, never really seemed plausable to me, since in my mind they would be fighting in real time like in the anime. Not turn based, like in the games. So there's no concern for Pokémon running out of PP or only having 4 move slots, which both quite obviously are there first and foremost as a gameplay mechanic/restriction for the player.
The format is whatever the lion side has arguments for. Thats abt it.
Pokemon can run out of pp, but if thats the case lions need food and rayquaza can just fly to space and wait till they starve.
Arceus is a multiversal being that can manipulate the laws of reality and physics. Any time we’ve interacted with Arceus has been with an avatar who barely even has a FRACTION of its true power
PP is a mechanic, yes, but it represents something that's actually kinda obvious:
they get tired. that's why real strong moves have low PP, attacking takes energy
@@gameinsane4718good thing the lions are facing the avatar of arceus, then, the one that needs a buncha unown to actually do god stuff
@@zacknattack ok so if moves cost energy.. just chill in space till the lions starve?
How's a lion gonna beat Steelix? Carbink? Geodude? Graveler? Golem? Diancie? Stonjourner? Onix? Registeel? Regirock? A lion's bite won't get through. These ones win by doing absolutely nothing. Similarly, what about Lanturn? Wailord? Finizen? Palafin? Basically EVERY Pokémon that lives underwater. They see a lion leap at them and just dive underwater. If they continue, they'd drown
Victini literally makes it impossible for the Lions to win
theres hundreds of examples that we could draw from the pokedex, this "question" is genuinely retarded
y'know people have lost while having a victini right
it's a clear exaggeration [or victini is a good omen]
mimic, copycat, metronome, you didnt sey how spaced out the lion prides are, the mons can try to push them closer
together, also lions cant go to the ocean
Ok lion purist how do the lions beat this?
Klefki @ Leppa Berry
Ability: Prankster
Tera Type: Steel
IVs: 0 Atk
- Iron Defense
- Substitute
- Draining Kiss
- Recycle
But it hits all on the field
If we want to bring up game mechanics into this discussion.
Counterpoint why the lions lose. Lions are not video game characters and have no stats or hit points.
Since they have 0 HP, they all instantly die.
Since lions are not video game characters, this is why non-game media or mechanics are used in defense of the Pokemon.
And while using anime and manga logic, most Pokemon would still get tired out fighting 10 lions, or 100, or 1000, there are many Pokemon that can defeat that many using non-game mechanics in a single attack.
How many lions does it take to beat 4 litteral gods
probably takes a few million at most to tire them out
esp considering arceus, for instance, is less *a* god and more an avatar of a god that requires a buncha unown to do god stuff
@@zacknattack Lions have an attack potency of street level, which when multiplied by a billion, comes to about 3585 tons of tnt, which comes out to right around the middle of small town level. this is for every lion attacking once. this might sound pretty impressive for the lions, but its really not.
One single instance where groudon raised the continents, comes out to a whopping 216.31 Petatons (Multi-Continent level)
Lions are shown to have similar durability to their attack strength so it would only take 3585 tons of tnt to take out all the lions...
No way are lions winning this one. Groudon alone can kill a billion lions with one move.
@@DomP001 you are making two major mistakes here [well three if you count thinking such a simple model is worth much]
one: groudon is not that powerful. groudon and kyogre are far weakened compared to how they were in ancient times, and need external artifacts to regain their old strength. additionally the greatest ground/water feats we see from the groudon/kyogre pair are: making a small earth platform and making it rain hard/really sunny.
two: the main strength in a billion lions isn't just 'strength of a lion x a billion', rather it is in attrition. how many lions can a pokémon take before they get tired?
oh btw if groudon can actually do "216.31 petatons of force all at once" stuff why do we never see it. not sure about groudon but kyogre seems to, at least in modern days, do a biblical "it rained for 40 days and 40 nights" flood. and if kyogre's feats are at that level then groudon definitely isn't at a "216.31 petatons of force at once" level.
i mean if groudon were at that level it's kinda weird they lost to a kid with 6 normal pokémon right
Is the literal god of the Pokemon universe(who is a pokemon) a part of this debate, because if so team pokemon wins
Appearently god dies to a rock
@@kyaroderooij7158 you got a point
@@zulta you know how the saying is right?
Sticks and stones break gods bones
@@kyaroderooij7158 pfffffffffffff. I have been swayed to team lions
@@zulta exactly, cuz why use reason when u can make up rules while also deciding rules and changing them at will to fit your narrative
Arceus=god god=blown up earth blown up earth = no more lions no more lions = win for Pokémon 😂
arceus the pokémon needs unown to do god stuff
@@zacknattack so Arceus should get unknown then do stuff so even more Pokémon survive
@@RichardE-y6n by the very rules of the "1 of every pokémon" there's only 1 unown. the best that could be done would be having every pokémon that can know transform also transform into that unown but that's still only 1 type of unown which. probably isn't that useful
i mean i'm not arceus, i dunno how using the unown works but if it's anything like machine code, having only 1 type of instruction is kinda useless
I hate that this man ignores hoard battles which allows you to hit 5 pokemon at once. I would say hoard battles are a better measurement then triple or rotation battles.
I'm always bothered by this discussion, as its inherently going to include a lot of stipulations and assumptions that affect the outcome.
..And yet I clicked anyway.
Pokemon can regain PP after sleeping
There thing too stop this ability
All lions can roar roar and stop this ability i know there maybe problem but still it will cancel it
Lions aren't Pokemons, they don't learn Pokemon moves.
Or can you kill a ghost biting ?
@@josecorzo5517 no I mean
Lion can roar Real life and it is super powerful and loud
And normal Pokémon can bite the ghost Pokémon and little kids can capture the ghost with a ball soo
@@josecorzo5517ghost pokémon aren't 'real' ghosts, they literally can have ghost babies and taking someone trick or treating turns them into a ghost for a bit
You went to wayyyy to much effort to disprove parish song. Even in an ideal case, they could each only get 3 off as they themselves faint to parish song
this debate is so stupid. The pokemon we know and see as "Arceus" isnt all of arceus, its simply one of its avatars. Arceus could simply create 2 billion Avatars of itself, then each lion is outnumbered 2-1. thats a lot of Arceus. Arceus is literally everything in the pokemon universe, its not 1 billion lions vs 1 of each pokemon, its 1 billion lions vs 1000 pokemon and reality itself, Lions get folded.
why would an avatar of arceus be able to do that, we literally see that arceus [pokémon] needs to use unown to actually do god stuff.
I still dont understand how anyone is on team Lion
there's a billion of them. how many lions does thou think the pokémon can take out before getting tired?
@@zacknattack How many Lions can fly?
@@matthewpletsch7523 birds land eventually.
@@zacknattack Gods aren't birds.
@@matthewpletsch7523 Mufasa from the first Lion King movie could fly (don't know about the live action ones).
Bro I love your videos but you're just fighting a losing battle here
And I’ll never stop
@@TheChiptide I can respect that
Give the pokémon their tcg moves. A forretress EVERYONE EXPLODE NOW should work just fine
One problem with introducing physics to one pokemon in this debate is that you then have to apply physics to all pokemon. Magcargo has a body temperature of 10000 degrees celsius, around twice as hot as the surface of the sun. Anything near it would instantly melt. This is a passive effect, so it doesn't consume pp and is continuous. Just a magcargo alone would win.
You can't apply physics to pokemon, they're magic. If you do, you get nonsense like this, and only excluding nonsense results would heavily and unfairly skew the outcome, since most pokemon (and their moves) are not physically possible.
Just exclude the Pokédex, of the marcargo one was true then all the Pokémon would probably die as well
@@ThisIsAHandle-xz5yo It makes more sense to exclude physics than to exclude the pokedex. Even if you ignore the pokedex, many moves are simply physically impossible, for example any weather based move. A sentient ice cube can't physically make a blizzard appear out of thin air. If you (rightfully) accept that pokemon are magic, the pokedex doesn't create inconsistencies anymore, magcargo just has a magic aura that keeps its heat contained to its body.
Also, it would still win if magcargo killed all other pokemon if all of the lions also die and it survives. If it doesn't, then it's a draw. Either way the lions don't win. This is assuming physics apply though, which I don't think they should.
Counterpoint, I think Elm was just making stuff up and nobody double checked his work
@@TheChiptide Even if you disregard the pokedex as pure lies and only count what is actually shown, pokemon still can't be anything other than magic. Surf makes a wave of water appear out of thin air. Either it's teleported or it's created from nothing, but both are not physically possible, especially for just a small animal. Evolving doesn't make sense either from a physics perspective, as well any gimmick battle mechanic (i.e. mega evolution).
You cannot apply physics to a sound that makes animals perish by just being heard and then accept that a sentient meter tall floating ice cream creature that can instantly summon a snowstorm on a sunny day can exist.
As a way to talk about the physics of sound, it's great (your video is really great), but as a functional argument it's not.
@@terra_creeper it literally lies
what if the lions used Perish Song?
I, I don't know
I haven't picked a side, its just fun to see the chaos and logic loopholes people make up. The famous lion ladder, for example, requires several thousand lions to support the weight of several thousand more, while standing perfectly still, leaving them vulnerable to attacks. Likewise, people often bring up pokemon like yveltal, macargo and gardevoir and their respective planet-destroying pokedex entries. Wouldn't that result in a tie? As far as I'm aware, no pokemon can survive the raw heat of the sun (necrozma only eats the light btw), a black hole (which at the size if a pence would eliminate the whole planet and more), and just straight-up death.
Flash Fire Pokemon would be immune to the heat of the sun. Gravity is a Psychic type move, so a Black Hole would presumably be as well, and thus fail to affect all Dark type Pokemon. So it seems that a Houndour and a Houndoom would both survive the Magcargo/Gardevoir combo, only to die to the Yveltal. However, if a Pokemon were to use Skill Swap or Entrainment to give Flash Fire to Yveltal (Gardevoir can do this since they have Trace and Skill Swap) then Yveltal wouldn't die, and thus three different Pokemon would live.
@@normal6483 Interesting. To play devil's advocate, flash fire and dark type immunity both only work on direct attacks; flash fire mons are affected by sunny day, likewise dark Pokémon are affected by gravity (the move and the force, houndour can't learn fly). Otherwise, good argument
@@endymon5240 You advocate for the devil quite well, I am influenced by your words.
I have a pretty good argument against people who think Pokémon attacks have planet-destroying power: The planet has not been destroyed.
@@indigofenix00 Again, to play devil's advocate, the pokemon world is one where yellow rats summon thunderstorms when some nearby person dances with a rock. The matter in that world may be conditionally invulnerable to extreme heat or small black holes, it would be less of a stretch. Also yveltal is asleep, he's too tired to end the world. Assuming lions are lions from our world, their matter would not have this capability. Good argument, took me a while to think of a counterpoint
Sadly, the pokemon couldn't even use all 8 pp of Perish Song because they would fall after their 3rd one.......
Lion defenders always fight off every strategy as if it's the only thing pokemon can do. Pokemon might not be able to defeat all the lions with only perish song, but you cannot deny they can take out the majority of them, and then finish off the rest with other strategies.
there's a freaking billion lions. it's a war of attrition, the pokémon will tire eventually
You forgot to account for the possibility of using more common attacks like Flamethrower and Thunderbolt to herd the lions closer together. And using other forms of offense, like other spread moves for clean-up afterwards
chiptide thank god you're on the lion side, I knew you were based like that
you people have literal brain damage
One pokelman could beat 1 billion lions, let alone 1k+ of them rofl. Lions would start eating each other, almost every pokelman is neutral towards each other and they could actually build a ladder of pokelmon, but have literally no reason to.
Ok, but how long before 1 billion lions die of starvation becuase they couldnt get to relicanth chilling at the bottom of the ocean?
I don’t know, I feel like if I punched a guy in the face, ran away, and then he died of natural causes 50 years later, I don’t think that means I “won the fight”
@@TheChiptide My honest answer to this is looking at it biologically through ecosystem carrying capacity (not even getting into noncoperative lion social dynamics), even if the lions that start in their natural sahvanna or even forest habitat they could theorically adapt to like related other large felines, they massively outnumber the carrying capacity that such an ecosystem could sustain, in days at best all available resources (living creatures with meat for the obligate carnivores to consume) have been used up like an invasive species would. All too quickly the lions are left with nothing but the decaying corpses of their fellow emaciated lions to consider feeding upon before succumbing to hunger, while grandpa fish not even aware they existed remains untouched, undefeated
@@cwolf1221 That's actually super fair, we always talk about this in terms of one unified army fighting another, but in reality it'd be more like 1 billion-some odd individuals all trying to survive
You are way too underrated
I do always find it interesting where people draw the line of "that's not a reasonable assumption" in such cases. And, to be clear, no matter which side of the argument you're on you're going to have to make assumptions and decide what counts as a reasonable assumption, so it's not a bad thing. But it is interesting that, for example in this case, at the end mentioning how you would likely affect far fewer lions than the maximum per perish song, the size of a pride of lions is mentioned. And, yes, lions realistically would not form a single pride of 1 billion lions. That's absurd. As absurd as the premise in the first place is. Because the fact is that this entire question is assuming SOMEHOW you have 1 of each pokemon fighting against the 1 billion lions and not against each other, and similarly 1 billion lions fighting against 1 of each pokemon and not against each other. This, to me, does seem to imply a single mega-pride of all 1 billion lions. Otherwise the lions would end up fighting each other as well, and similarly pokemon would end up fighting each other as well (because even in-game mechanics suggest that they would, given horde battles containing both seviper and zangoose as an example). So I feel like you should either assume 1 mega-pride of all 1 billion lions, or you're going to have to make things WAY WAY more complicated as you try to figure out how many lions would be taken out by other lions rather than pokemon and how many pokemon would be taken out by other pokemon before the lions could get to them. (And, of course, even with 1 super pride with all the lions, they still are highly unlikely to be as tightly packed in as possible, so you still wouldn't hit the maximum number of lions with each use of perish song, but it is reasonable to assume you would be able to hit more lions than 4 individual prides.)
Pokémon use Perish Song in the Pokémon world. There are still people alive and conscious in the Pokémon world. Ergo, Perish Song doesn't have unlimited range. This isn't complicated.
Also the same logic can be used against basically every argument in the Pokémon's favor.
Perish song states that "Any Pokémon that hears this song faints in three turns, unless it switches out of battle." Lions are not Pokémon so it does nothing to them.
Destroyer of Lions (Appletun) @ Leppa Berry
Ability: Ripen
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Recycle
- Iron Defense
- Recover
- Body Press
MF just stalls all the lions one after the other.
To all the people saying that because the humans arent affected by perish song, the lions wont be. That means lions cant hit ghosts because humans cant
Perish song only affects pokemon, otherwise it would take out pokemon trainers
Perish song has another issue. It can't be used by its users the maximum number of times because of the fact that it faints after turn 3
Perish Song last 3 turns. Since when could Pokemon use 8 moves in 3 turns?
This topic is pointless you could just wait for the lions to starve 😂
D5 not used, day now sad face
ok but what about 1 trillion lions vs the sun?
I would have to counter with Yveltal, which even if it dies, it will just absorb all the energy of the lions, and the rest of the Pokémon along with it, but the Pokémon would still technically win
I mean, the lions would certainly lose if that were the case, but I don't think that counts as the Pokémon winning...
@@TheChiptidestill means lions can NEVER win.
And with pokemon that can fly into space to rest when they get tired (restoring health and PP) Pokemon team easily has outs where they can win.
It is impossible for lions to win, but pokemon have multiple outs where they can.
The lions can just use the move beat up to defeat all the pokemon within 3 turns. Each pokemon can't survive a billion lions attacking it all at once.
Do the lions learn beat up or any pokemon move? They are lions not Pokemons.
Also, beat up is single,target
@@josecorzo5517 If Alolan Persian can learn it then surely Scar (from the Lion King) and the Cowardly Lion from the Wizard of Oz get to use it
It doesn't take a pokemon to gank someone.
The idea is to have a lot of lions use the Beat Up attack. After one lion selects the beat up attack on one pokemon, another lion could select the beat up attack on another pokemon.
Also Perish Song only works on Pokemon. Otherwise the trainer would be dead.
Ditto can transform and use perish song for 5 times , in three turns other pokemon will have killed quite a bit of loins and this is a mythical song that can cast death i don't think it will be below 200db and there's move called copycat
i fixed the debate name: a literal god with backup vs lots of lions
Bro, I bet I could take on Arceus MYSELF. I beat that dude with a pretty regular rat once
arceus the pokémon isn't a god, it's an avatar of the god arceus. the pokémon arceus needs unown in order to actually do stuff
I mean, the description of Perish song says: "Any Pokémon that hears this song faints in three turns, unless it switches out of battle."
As lions aren't Pokémon, there's a possibility it wouldn't even affect lions.
Dormomu I've come to bargain
I mean, I'm pretty sure Pokemon is supposed to be a game even in-game but... That's my theory, so scratching a copy of the game could "kill" the pokemon.
Actually, a better argument: humans are not affected by the pokemon attacks in-game, therefore "real" or non-pokemon animals in-game are not affected by pokemon attacks, and vice-versa (unless you count throwing a pokeball as an "attack") : the best you could hope for would be a draw. Of some sort.
@@sutarikunthat means "real" animals and humans cant hit ghosts bruh
@@kyaroderooij7158 Neither side can have an effect on the other. Humans and animals can't harm pokemon but pokemon can't harm humans and animals either.
@@sutarikun what? Acting like pikachu lightning didnt fry ash like 20 times
@@kyaroderooij7158 I'm specifically citing the game series, where pokemon do not appear to directly affect/harm/heal non-pokemon beings through moves.