@@kurzackd nice strawman. Guy in the chat doesn't have to be good at SC to say Artosis lacks skill. Your hypothetical point that artosis could beat guy in 1v1 is irrelevant.
Yeah but he went Templar tech without dt’s and rush airbiter and fast expands into turtle he just sits there expanding everywhere without moving out Protoss
To be fair Artosis was up when he defended the first few recalls. Only lost later on when he had one tank blocking his main ramp and stopped laying mines in the main to block against the recall.
gotta hand it to the Toss: He had a knack for always finding the precise spot to sneak his arbiter through AND to recall his units on the precise spot which wasn't landmined. Wow! :O
I feel like he would win much more frequently, if he would use EMP at all. Not alone to stop recalls but make arbiters and high Templar’s obsolete in fights. It would also wipe out all shields. But arty is kinda stuck in his conviction that
Emp doesnt stop it though. It's super delayed and once the recall is set up even just outside it'll still happen. I want to see more ghost lockdown if anything. Just stop it from getting in entirely.
He got an early scout. Ghost lockdown is the easiest way to deal with arb. But you have to actually care to use counters and not just pray that whatever they build will lose to tanks and vultures
Okay i gotta admit, that last recall before he quit would have tilted me off the face off the earth with how many turrets were at the bottom of the base
Interesting how lore wise Arbiters are not really military units/personnel and more like high ranking LEOs yet they manage to give such huge advantage to toss.
Honestly if you use (hallucination i think?) on an arbiter to make shadow clones or whatever to tank for it and just zoom into a base and recall like 5+ dropships worth of units, that is kinda BS. Only way to counter it is by what, have a. Couple of sci vessels with EMPs ready and waiting for it?
*** Pop quiz before you scroll down *** Which of the following suggestions was NOT made by protoss players in the comment section who believe tvp is fair & balanced? A) Artosis should firebat drop the probes so protoss can't afford arbiters B) Artosis should use wraiths to kill the arbiters to stop recall C) Artosis should kill the protoss by rushing before he gets recall D) Artosis should lockdown the arbiters with ghosts as they fly in E) Artosis should keep up with protoss expansions & mining
Yeah seriosly . He plays T v P same all the time. Its so easy to read him. Turtle turtle turtle. Then push out but at that time Toss who knows cant A move into tank / vulture line just takes the whole map...
@@goodguycwyzz4768 he complains about cross spawn cc first gambles because that’s yet another layer of stupid RNG in BW. Sure, the best of the best Terrans can probably end up winning but to the vast majority, if you scout a CC first last in a 4 player map, you’ve already lost.
@@uteliux i think letting an army on your main is more cost inefficient, a lockdown just negates an arbiter and you can kill it with a couple of goliaths... i think that wall of 3k minerals of turrets only dies vs the ball of gateway units teleported by the arbiter that failed to kill.
@@1MpUrO Ghost is gas expensive. Gas a resource which is much needed for tank .A core unit of terran mech. Also unlike EMP the ghost shot have to be pixel perfect cause it does not deal aoe.
one would think that Artosis will learn by now to use lockdown on arbiters trying to fly in but i guess no. protos is using all tools he have to win when artosis only build his fragile combat units hoping that he will win somehow against race that have tougher units...
Yeah but when he do nothing but only tourtle and sits in his base waiting for the protoss to attack ... its skill for him .. thats why protoss take all the map and thats why B rankers destroys him and he cant defeat them.... his ego is his worst enemy ... he cant admit that he is doing something wrong... just keep complaining and crying all the time thats why ladder is hard for him and gets what he deserve... even foreigner players never loose to low rankers
yeah, that 21 minute cheese. Bro, relax. You're fucking floating 1400 gas. Make 2 more machine shops and get a couple more tanks per build cycle. And gols, for that matter. Vultures should be like a third or less of your comp. Spidermines and vultures counter zealots and are great for roams. But 5 or 6 vultures can easily counter 15 zealots, if you include mines. You're trying to spend your float, I get that, but you'd be better off using marines than vultures if you're trying to spend. Just stop under-utilizing the proper unit comps. Your 60 supply of front line does like 5 damage per hit on the dragoons. Big fucking yikes.
I have mixed feelings. A single ghost could have stopped all this. But it's hard to juggle all these units in broodwar, especially defensively. An arbiter is much easier to play, just fly it in and recall. I think it even survives an yamato. I generally agree with ARtosis's compaints, and I always at least partially agree. In this particular game, I think you could have just locked it down and killed it. I'm not sure if arbiter cloaks when locked down. Even if the arbitur was stoppable though, this kind of everything-we've-done-up-till-now-doesn't-matter-any-more events should not be part of the game. Recall is one of those. It completely reverses defenders advantage
Its amazing how 1 race has more mobility.Has more bases yet it freely attacks all game or just runs when attack not working. Gets 1 unit that is not even fully abused that can have unlimited life with hallucination just come in and recall 200 army. Has a carrier the longest ranged unit when attacking while moving back.Has 8 interceptors but 6psi. And the only unit that has no counter at all in the game.Most terran even flash dies to it.Even if he wins some he still dies to it. And he dies as badly to main recall he cant defend it no one can.You need some good luck to defend its not like reaver. And the other terrans even top2 is not even close to flash level.Disgusting matchup tvp.
Dude, by design terran is less mobile yet more powerful, it ain't broken. Somehow, when I play Toss, I have problems making recalls - first I need to dodge EMPs and these sick ranged goliaths (both of which Arty does not use to prevent recalls), and then I end up at minefield anyway.
@@ntr86 You mean emp that you have to react in like 2 seconds before your fucked.And after you did get him he still recalls 2 seconds later cause he clicked recall before you clicked emp. Or how you cant use ghosts because of hallucination abuse.We see pro gamers play.They dont have a bunch of goliath just sitting in a spot to deny arbiter.And their emp defense to stop a recall is very rare.Koget is S rank with terran and got S rank with other races.He said its so easy to play z or p.With terran any small mistakes and your dead.He even said if both p and t play with the same level of ability then protoss will almost always win.Flash in a interview said its insane how hard it is to beat protoss.Artosis always complains even in TvT the most balanced matchup.But TvP his not full of shit.If someone cant get A rank with terran they should not go around claiming its not the most broken matchup in the game in favor of toss.
@@johndoe-ki9ub I agree that Toss is easier to play, much more forgiving. But still ain't mean that matchup is broken, which is my point. Two players with same skill, yeah, probably Toss win. But if these players play both very well in this match, it's Terran who wins. He has most powerful ground unit (tank), air unit (bc), ground-to-air unit (goliath) and even air-to-air unit (valk). Zerg has mass, Toss has mobility, Terran has power. Yeah, it's hard to stop recall, but it's even harder to stop big terran push. Thing is, Terran needs to live till he's ready with that push, and any mistake makes him dead. Like, maybe it's not coincidence, that flash, who can play perfectly, goes with terran and kills anybody anytime.
@@ntr86 whats the point of naming valk and bc when those are useless in that matchup. Carrier is the best air unit that is super strong against ground too in that matchup. And its not harder to stop terran army when there is no one in the world who has a good anti recall play even flash. And no flash does not play perfect.His the most amazing player and has amazing early anti zealot defense. But his anti recall is as weak as anyone else.One game on colloseum he got recalled 2 times and lost 2 cc. His anti recall was obviously weak but his overall skills are amazing that he somehow came back and won that game. On circuit breaker he played a 4base game and for 20minutes was never able to move out from those 4 bases cause he got recalled all over and he lost.He is unique he can play random and win 3rd place in asl.If he had the same amount of experience as a protoss player he would dominate pvt far more than his tvp.Also alot of protoss players are arrogant. Instead of just sitting and getting bases then recall main when terran tries to move out.They try to look fancy and attack the terran to just win the game when his not even moving out and lots of times it just goes to favor terran. Koget is a top non-korean terran player who says protoss would almost always win if same skills. Flash is top terran player in the world and top player any race.He says its crazy hard to kill a protoss but he does not say the same about killing terran and that guy has skills so much better than anyone else.Even such top players say its broken so why do people keep acting like its not.Especially when they dont play all 3 races to A rank at least to have some experience and be able to actually see for themselves if its broken or not.
Do I think it's a fair match up? No, I think you're way out of your league. Did you not have a dad growing up? Because if I yelled at my computer like you do, my dad would have drop kicked my shit right out the upstairs window. lul
Hahahaha Arbiter are such bullshit xD You can fly over 4 turrets and 3 goliaths shooting at you and just teleport 70 supply worth of units straight into your opponent's production. Who the hell thought that was a good idea? Just saying that feels like some dumb fan-fic or an idea from some bronze leaguer "what if I could teleport my entire army directly in his base?" and would be laughed at in any serious discussion about a game's balance.
The best solution for an Arb nerf would be to minimize the target area in which recall works. Obviously nerfs won’t happen for BW, but smaller patch of available recall would be balanced
The look of determination and the lack of skill is why I keep coming back
Not that I support Artosis, but you do know that he'd absolutely crush you in a 1v1, right?
@@kurzackd nice strawman. Guy in the chat doesn't have to be good at SC to say Artosis lacks skill. Your hypothetical point that artosis could beat guy in 1v1 is irrelevant.
@@troletrain yes, of course, he doesn't have to be good to *say* it.
It doesn't mean that he's right. ;]
@@kurzackd u do know that artosis is 40 years old dud who only play sc and telling people that they should do "something useful with there life" :D
@@cadulino83 he is also married and has 4 children.
Floating 1.3k min, 1.3k gas, while toss has the entire map lolol
Yeah but he went Templar tech without dt’s and rush airbiter and fast expands into turtle he just sits there expanding everywhere without moving out Protoss
Not to mention all his factories have full production queues
Artosis got straight up out macro'd
To be fair Artosis was up when he defended the first few recalls. Only lost later on when he had one tank blocking his main ramp and stopped laying mines in the main to block against the recall.
gotta hand it to the Toss: He had a knack for always finding the precise spot to sneak his arbiter through AND to recall his units on the precise spot which wasn't landmined. Wow! :O
I feel like he would win much more frequently, if he would use EMP at all. Not alone to stop recalls but make arbiters and high Templar’s obsolete in fights. It would also wipe out all shields. But arty is kinda stuck in his conviction that
Brotoss is op and everyone is “cheesing” and going all-ins.
Emp doesnt stop it though. It's super delayed and once the recall is set up even just outside it'll still happen.
I want to see more ghost lockdown if anything. Just stop it from getting in entirely.
He got an early scout. Ghost lockdown is the easiest way to deal with arb. But you have to actually care to use counters and not just pray that whatever they build will lose to tanks and vultures
If only there was some way to make units that can move in the sky and possibly shoot down any arbiters that fly by
%60 of the toss minerals count and the arbiters are the problems.
Okay i gotta admit, that last recall before he quit would have tilted me off the face off the earth with how many turrets were at the bottom of the base
Interesting how lore wise Arbiters are not really military units/personnel and more like high ranking LEOs yet they manage to give such huge advantage to toss.
I feel like his Ernie streams are the most volatile
The way that Arbitor just yolo'd in like that had me rofl.
Honestly if you use (hallucination i think?) on an arbiter to make shadow clones or whatever to tank for it and just zoom into a base and recall like 5+ dropships worth of units, that is kinda BS.
Only way to counter it is by what, have a. Couple of sci vessels with EMPs ready and waiting for it?
*** Pop quiz before you scroll down ***
Which of the following suggestions was NOT made by protoss players in the comment section who believe tvp is fair & balanced?
A) Artosis should firebat drop the probes so protoss can't afford arbiters
B) Artosis should use wraiths to kill the arbiters to stop recall
C) Artosis should kill the protoss by rushing before he gets recall
D) Artosis should lockdown the arbiters with ghosts as they fly in
E) Artosis should keep up with protoss expansions & mining
Gets beat in a long macro game and still says CHEESE CHEESE CHEESE
maybe try attacking instead of just playing tower defense.
Yeah seriosly . He plays T v P same all the time. Its so easy to read him. Turtle turtle turtle. Then push out but at that time Toss who knows cant A move into tank / vulture line just takes the whole map...
quick question - does Arty consider TvT a fair matchup>? Thanks
Only if he wins, jk.
No because he will complain when they are cross spawn and they go cc first and says it’s unfair and the other guy is bad
@@goodguycwyzz4768 he complains about cross spawn cc first gambles because that’s yet another layer of stupid RNG in BW.
Sure, the best of the best Terrans can probably end up winning but to the vast majority, if you scout a CC first last in a 4 player map, you’ve already lost.
@@qcdoomqc cry more
Yes, the AI of his units would not listen to his commands and only him will miss more than 50% hit on lower ground shots.
cheese 20 min in. B terran.
He should build 12 wraiths to hunt them down instead of wasting on 100 useless turrets
I agree
Or if he actually built the turrets in the right spots lol
Dose the Arbiter not have a cap on how much stuff it can recall?
what about instead of doing a thousand turrets, ghost with lockdown?
extremely cost inefficient
@@uteliux My boy royal goes ghost sometimes but he is a top dog. Not like arty
@@uteliux i think letting an army on your main is more cost inefficient, a lockdown just negates an arbiter and you can kill it with a couple of goliaths... i think that wall of 3k minerals of turrets only dies vs the ball of gateway units teleported by the arbiter that failed to kill.
@@1MpUrO Ghost is gas expensive. Gas a resource which is much needed for tank .A core unit of terran mech. Also unlike EMP the ghost shot have to be pixel perfect cause it does not deal aoe.
Damn really was he at 2300 mmr 3weeks ago and now hes at 2k ??? Must be hard....
2300mmr was a miracle for him
Yeah, he's an a-rank player. If he gets to S, he never stays there for long
one would think that Artosis will learn by now to use lockdown on arbiters trying to fly in but i guess no. protos is using all tools he have to win when artosis only build his fragile combat units hoping that he will win somehow against race that have tougher units...
Yeah but when he do nothing but only tourtle and sits in his base waiting for the protoss to attack ... its skill for him .. thats why protoss take all the map and thats why B rankers destroys him and he cant defeat them.... his ego is his worst enemy ... he cant admit that he is doing something wrong... just keep complaining and crying all the time thats why ladder is hard for him and gets what he deserve... even foreigner players never loose to low rankers
Lol reminds me of lowtiergod from the fgc standpoint
Funny when he always says how bad his enemy is, meanwhile he turtles like a noob terran and his enemy has 20k more income than him.
He wonders why he loses so much.. maybe because he stays on two bases for way too long
it's insane how fucking terrible turrets are in brood war
yes, they are terrible, if you leave a large gap in your base that is entirely undefended by them. xD
yeah, that 21 minute cheese. Bro, relax. You're fucking floating 1400 gas. Make 2 more machine shops and get a couple more tanks per build cycle. And gols, for that matter. Vultures should be like a third or less of your comp. Spidermines and vultures counter zealots and are great for roams. But 5 or 6 vultures can easily counter 15 zealots, if you include mines. You're trying to spend your float, I get that, but you'd be better off using marines than vultures if you're trying to spend. Just stop under-utilizing the proper unit comps. Your 60 supply of front line does like 5 damage per hit on the dragoons. Big fucking yikes.
NEEEERD!😊
Lol such a sad man
I have mixed feelings. A single ghost could have stopped all this. But it's hard to juggle all these units in broodwar, especially defensively. An arbiter is much easier to play, just fly it in and recall. I think it even survives an yamato. I generally agree with ARtosis's compaints, and I always at least partially agree. In this particular game, I think you could have just locked it down and killed it. I'm not sure if arbiter cloaks when locked down. Even if the arbitur was stoppable though, this kind of everything-we've-done-up-till-now-doesn't-matter-any-more events should not be part of the game. Recall is one of those. It completely reverses defenders advantage
and what about lock down?
Its amazing how 1 race has more mobility.Has more bases yet it freely attacks all game or just runs when attack not working.
Gets 1 unit that is not even fully abused that can have unlimited life with hallucination just come in and recall 200 army.
Has a carrier the longest ranged unit when attacking while moving back.Has 8 interceptors but 6psi.
And the only unit that has no counter at all in the game.Most terran even flash dies to it.Even if he wins some he still dies to it.
And he dies as badly to main recall he cant defend it no one can.You need some good luck to defend its not like reaver.
And the other terrans even top2 is not even close to flash level.Disgusting matchup tvp.
100% facts right here ^ that match up is broken
Dude, by design terran is less mobile yet more powerful, it ain't broken. Somehow, when I play Toss, I have problems making recalls - first I need to dodge EMPs and these sick ranged goliaths (both of which Arty does not use to prevent recalls), and then I end up at minefield anyway.
@@ntr86 You mean emp that you have to react in like 2 seconds before your fucked.And after you did get him he still recalls 2 seconds later cause he clicked recall before you clicked emp.
Or how you cant use ghosts because of hallucination abuse.We see pro gamers play.They dont have a bunch of goliath just sitting in a spot to deny arbiter.And their emp defense to stop a recall is very rare.Koget is S rank with terran and got S rank with other races.He said its so easy to play z or p.With terran any small mistakes and your dead.He even said if both p and t play with the same level of ability then protoss will almost always win.Flash in a interview said its insane how hard it is to beat protoss.Artosis always complains even in TvT the most balanced matchup.But TvP his not full of shit.If someone cant get A rank with terran they should not go around claiming its not the most broken matchup in the game in favor of toss.
@@johndoe-ki9ub I agree that Toss is easier to play, much more forgiving. But still ain't mean that matchup is broken, which is my point.
Two players with same skill, yeah, probably Toss win. But if these players play both very well in this match, it's Terran who wins. He has most powerful ground unit (tank), air unit (bc), ground-to-air unit (goliath) and even air-to-air unit (valk). Zerg has mass, Toss has mobility, Terran has power. Yeah, it's hard to stop recall, but it's even harder to stop big terran push. Thing is, Terran needs to live till he's ready with that push, and any mistake makes him dead.
Like, maybe it's not coincidence, that flash, who can play perfectly, goes with terran and kills anybody anytime.
@@ntr86 whats the point of naming valk and bc when those are useless in that matchup.
Carrier is the best air unit that is super strong against ground too in that matchup.
And its not harder to stop terran army when there is no one in the world who has a good anti recall play even flash.
And no flash does not play perfect.His the most amazing player and has amazing early anti zealot defense.
But his anti recall is as weak as anyone else.One game on colloseum he got recalled 2 times and lost 2 cc.
His anti recall was obviously weak but his overall skills are amazing that he somehow came back and won that game.
On circuit breaker he played a 4base game and for 20minutes was never able to move out from those 4 bases cause he got recalled all over and he lost.He is unique he can play random and win 3rd place in asl.If he had the same amount of experience as a protoss player he would dominate pvt far more than his tvp.Also alot of protoss players are arrogant.
Instead of just sitting and getting bases then recall main when terran tries to move out.They try to look fancy and attack the terran to just win the game when his not even moving out and lots of times it just goes to favor terran.
Koget is a top non-korean terran player who says protoss would almost always win if same skills.
Flash is top terran player in the world and top player any race.He says its crazy hard to kill a protoss but he does not say the same about killing terran and that guy has skills so much better than anyone else.Even such top players say its broken so why do people keep acting like its not.Especially when they dont play all 3 races to A rank at least to have some experience and be able to actually see for themselves if its broken or not.
Artie is wrong about many things.
Artie is Right about Protoss being overpowered.
Do I think it's a fair match up? No, I think you're way out of your league. Did you not have a dad growing up? Because if I yelled at my computer like you do, my dad would have drop kicked my shit right out the upstairs window. lul
Hahahaha Arbiter are such bullshit xD
You can fly over 4 turrets and 3 goliaths shooting at you and just teleport 70 supply worth of units straight into your opponent's production. Who the hell thought that was a good idea? Just saying that feels like some dumb fan-fic or an idea from some bronze leaguer "what if I could teleport my entire army directly in his base?" and would be laughed at in any serious discussion about a game's balance.
Arbiter has way too much HP. It should have been nerfed decades ago, and I’m a Random player who uses Arbs.
I guess arbiter was invented to bypass entrenched ramps full of tanks. That would be super hard with protoss ground units
Protoss unit design be like that
The best solution for an Arb nerf would be to minimize the target area in which recall works. Obviously nerfs won’t happen for BW, but smaller patch of available recall would be balanced
There is a unit that exists, its called "Ghost", it has an ability that stuns mech units for 10 years, you can do that to the arbiter, carriers, etc