Ford 3.5L 3.7L Duratec V6 Chain Driven Water Pump Failures: Check it Before it Destroys Your Engine!
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- Опубликовано: 5 окт 2024
- In this video we go over a common failure and how to know it is failing.
My Company BSG Automotive offers Auto Repair services in the greater Chicagoland area.
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chain driven water pumps are a prime example of why engineers should be legally required to work as mechanics for a couple of years first.
The people who designed this engine know better. I'm sure they get a lot of pressure to meet cost, schedule and other constraints from upper management that force them into this kind of nonsense.
@John you wouldn’t want a truck with a 3.5 cyclone. It’s hardly a truck. A sideways v6 is more then common now a days.
@John also electric water pumps aren’t needed for gasoline engines. Electric water pumps are mainly only found in hybrids and obviously EV’s.
@John it still has an accessory belt drive. Not difficult to simply make it exterior, belt driven. They don’t have a good excuse for this idiocy.
@@ryanwilson8659 BMW uses them
Ford: Next we’re relocating the spark plugs underneath the engine👍
Well, half of them are under the intake. They're getting there.
@@netflooder263 Ikr
They did relocate the oil filter in every worst way ! Don't tell them about the plugs
Ford....more than 100 years wasted in engineering
Just did the plugs on mine nowhere near as bad as it looks. Plenty of step by step RUclips vids on it. The plugs last 100k at least anyway. So you’re likely to only have to do it once or twice.
Subaru beat them to it😂with there sideways ass plugs
The water pump was moved to the inside of the engine in order to get it in the car, otherwise the engine would not fit. These are great engines, but this pump is a huge pain in the butt to change for sure! Thanks for your time explaining how to change the pump.
03 Ford escape, pull engine to replace starter.
06 mustang pull engine cuz one timing chain is on the back of the engine
2016 3.7 pull engine to replace water pump
14 hrs to change water pump?
Ford sucks
It would've fit cam-driven like the 3.0L
@@ghostmost2614 You don't need to pull the motor to change the starter in an Escape or water pump in any 3.5/3.7
! 🤣
They could have put it behind the engine and above the transaxle driven from one of the camshafts like the 3.0 Duratec V6. Too bad, the 3.5 is a 300K mile engine easily with nothing but oil changes if it weren't for the water pump.
@ohger1 Still is 300k capable on original pump. I was a stickler but the amount of people in the Facebook group in original waterpumps high mileage is incredible.
Thanks for posting your awesome video. Warning to others! My 2018 Ford Edge with 48,000 miles had the engine light come on briefly and we were hearing a sloshing liquid sound behind dash. I checked under the hood and discovered the coolant level was 2-3 inches below the fill line in the plastic tank but no visible leak under the car. I checked oil and it was fine. So we called Ford dealer service and took the car in for repair. They diagnosed the water pump was leaking - after pressure test (30 minutes) showed 7psi drop in engine pressure. TSB said it should be 5 hour pressure test and if the pressure dropped 4psi during test they should then remove spark plugs and borescope the engine. The tech ignored this step even though pressure dropped 7psi and just replaced water pump and called it a day. They didn’t check oil for coolant or change out oil after repair. We picked up the car on a Friday after 2 week repair and within a few hours the engine light came on again and the sloshing sound behind dash was still present. Called dealer and they said bring it back first thing Monday.
Monday morning when we started the car a ton of white smoke poured out of both tail pipes and the engine was running rough. Upon hearing the new symptoms the dealer service tech said “Oh this indicates a more serious problem.” Ya think!? Of course, now they borescoped the engine and determined it to be ruined. Replacement cost 9k! Fortunately, I had purchased a third party extended warranty ($1900 with $100 deductible) that had just covered the water pump replacement. After 5 weeks of back and forth and coughing up all the service records, the warranty company agreed to cover $8,400 of the $9k repair. So I’m now being asked to cover the $600 difference. No thank you. I’m asking dealer to cover the $600 difference since they failed to properly follow the recommended TSB procedures to accurately diagnose and check engine for coolant in the oil the first time when they only replaced water pump. This is a well known Ford Duratec engine design flaw for this 2018 Ford Edge and dealer should have known better. If the water pump inside the engine compartment leaks and there’s no external sign of a leak (puddle under the car) and the coolant tank is 2-3 inches below the fill line that liquid probably ended up in the engine. Dealers excuse “We can’t borescope every Duratec engine that has a failed water pump”. Yeah but when the TSB tells you do that if certain criteria are met and you choose not to - you’re responsible. At the very least the dealer didn’t replace engine oil after changing water pump so it’s possible they created the environment that quickly damaged the engine when all the coolant fell into the engine compartment during repair. I checked the oil before I brought the car in the first when I noticed coolant level was severely low. The oil looked normal and at that time there was no white smoke pouring out of tail pipes. White smoke only appeared after they made initial water pump replacement.
Thankfully, I purchased the extended warranty and had done all schedule oil changes and had all maintenance records leading up to the water pump and subsequent engine failure at 48,000 miles. Ford this should not happen!
We've got the Mazda CX-9, 2013, 93k miles, well-maintained. Check engine light came on and the code was for the VVT solenoid. Oil looked good. Mech removed the CE light, hoping it was an error, but it came back on an hour later. Told me it wasn't anything that would really harm the car if I drove it for the day if the light came back on. That night, as I was on my way home from work (12 miles round trip), the car seized up while idling at the stop light. Started it back up, started driving the last few blocks home and noticed the temperature was very high (not to the red line, but close). Drove 8 blocks, checked the oil and it was the "milkshake." Turns out the water pump failed and had leaked coolant to the engine, dirtying the solenoid. Now we need a $2400 repair to replace the water pump, and we're still not sure there isn't additional damage. Terrible design! First, that it costs $2,400 to repair a water pump failure. Second, that there's no sensor for the water pump failure, so you don't know you're about to melt your engine! Stupid, and frankly reckless
Mazda of Japan admits today that this 3.5L/3.7L V6 wasn't one of their better design, but they're stuck with it until end of life. It's not a bad engine, overall, they did not install a lifetime warranty water pump part, that's all. Otherwise, all other Mazda engines have been pretty reliable, overall.
Last Ford I'm buying...
I like the sensor idea, wonder if one could be retrofitted?
@daseiner, that VVT solenoid was letting you know that the water pump bearing was giving out, resulting in slack in the chain. My mom also has the 2010 Mazda CX-9 with the 3.7 Liter engine. four years back we experience the engine overheating while in the drive thru at a fast food place. Turns out we had no coolant in the reservoir, and oil was milky. Long story short, we had gotten the water pump change around 110,000 I believe, but shortly after it started leaking coolant on the ground and we didn't know where it was coming from until 4 years later(now) of actually looking into it. So I"m guessing the replacement pump was some crappy cheap part brand new. But anyways I was informed that the coolant was coming from the weep hole behind the alternator for the past 4 years. But the coolant was not mixing with the oil this time, and we kept the level topped off when it needs it. And the symptoms that I'm experiencing now is with no check engine light, but the coolant fan runs at high speeds like all the time and we have that little leak. The cooling fans are driving use crazy and their is no check engine light. I thought it was the fan control module but it is not. I was informed that the weep hole seepage can trigger the computer to tell the fans to run high almost all the time. (Even at cold starts when it is below freezing outside).
@@byrdcity6490 i had this issue last summer and we replaced the fans 4 times in like 6 months. Changed the temp sensors and stuff it would read -40 when it was 90 outside. My dad changed a ton of the stuff to the gas tank and it fixed the overheating. Now I have a spongy brake pedal, a hot passenger AC that had to be reset often, losing power on a brand new battery, and acceleration issues, shaking..I don't even know where to start. 😓😓😓
This is the scariest thing I've ever clicked on. 2011 Ford Taurus SEL. 134000 Miles.
You may have saved me from buying a new car. Thankfully no issues so far but I should probably get this changed *before* I have issues.... Thanks for sharing this info, it was really really helpful!
I have a 2017 ford explorer xlt. My water pump went out at 170,000 miles. I took it to my regular mechanic, and he changed it for me. The total cost was about $1500, which included the water pump, tensioner, serpentine belt, spark plugs, the 4 chain guides, air filter and 2 engine mounts. We did agree on $600-700 labor just for the water pump(not including parts) but he did up it a little when he found out that to replace one of the timing chain guides it requires to take off the back part of the engine. In my opinion $1500 is not that bad for all that. If I went to the dealer it would've been at least $3000. My friends explorer's water pump lasted about 120,000 miles. I don't know why mine lasted that long, maybe because I changed the coolant 2 times till it went out, maybe it was just luck.
New coolant does help
.
Keeps dust/rust particles from tearing up the seals.... also "refreshes" the additives (anti rust, water pump lubricants etc)
3500 to 4000 is what a ford dealership would do it for. Just paid for a job on a 2015 ford explorer
That's what we call in my neck of the woods, a piss poor set up.
I don't check my oil, I check my coolant bottle for any level difference once a week. My duratech still has zero tarnish or anything inside. 152k. Well taken care of.
A $2,000.00 water pump is crap. A water pump should never be able to silently kill your $7,500.00 + engine. Most people dont religiously check their oil once a week so this would be a huge blind side when they go to their mechanic to inquire as to what the hell that knocking noise is... I dont think I'd waste urine to piss on a Ford that isn't a 5L.
Great video dude.
Maybe that's what Brian Charged, but other shops would charge closer to $2,000.00 dollars. Already seen it.
My water pump on my bmw is located on the bottom of engine block easy to get to but coast around 800 to even buy the water pump if you buy oem.
@@SuperJeremi10 thanks for convincing me to never buy BMW
@@martialman.4563 parts are expensive but i love my bmw so i dont plann on trading it in anytime soon mines a 2008 with 100,000 miles
@@SuperJeremi10 Bought a Model 3 last year, turning into a full fledged Tesla cult member. I might be interested in getting a BMW bike from the 60s in the distant future.
Was going to purchase a Ford edge with a 3.7 has 79k...fully loaded. Sharp looking..how ever not interested in doing this major water pump..been a technician for 41 years now at the age of 63 .. those days are done for me...!!!
I have a Taurus AWD 3.5 duratec w 230,000 no issues! Always 3000 mile oil change and 50,000 water coolant and transmission flush! Buy it!!
3.5 is a wonderful engine regardless of the water pump difficulty
Could Ford make it anymore difficult to change the water pump out on these engines? Probably not.
They will find a way!
Flexplate driven water pump? Remove transmission and torque converter to replace.
I did a Nissan 3.5 like this and the Chrysler 2.7...... I hate them but it pays the bills 😜👨🏻🔧
No kidding...doing anything on the Nissan 3.5L 4wd config is a day and a half worth of work.
Ozzstar my god don't challenge them
Thanks for making this video. I check oil and coolant levels and inspect Oil Fill Cap every week. The weep hole info and inspection behind alternator is a top tip. I have a Lincoln Certified Pre-owned 3.5L engine with ESP to 125k miles. I love the car but will have evaluate future WP replacement vs trade-in at end of ESP. Your RUclips channel is top notch.
The old shade tree mechanic's don't have a chance nowadays. Good explained video. Thanks
john g not necessarily. The very wide range of video library subjects courtesy of University of RUclips probably help for the most part. Even if you watch these videos and get scared or overwhelmed by the procedures and steps. You can at least get some more knowledge of the systems.
You might not be able to fix it but at least get an idea of how complicated it can be. Also reduces the chance of getting snowed by scumbag service advisors and dealers.
Wow! I just watched an engine teardown on these and learned about this water pump location. It seems ridiculous to me. I had no idea. Now as i look through my service records and see that the water pump was replaced during cam phasers im a bit worried. But im glad you could teach us about this and show us where to look for problems before they escalate!! Thank you!!
If it's brand new the water pump I wouldn't worry about it
Why were the cam phasers replaced??
I'm currently doing this on a 2010 Fusion Sport with the engine in the car. By far one of the most complicated procedures I've done in my 26 years of wrenching, but still not horrible. Just make sure you're not in a hurry!
Matt Krumal did you manage to get it done in the Fusion without pulling the motor?
MR WD yes I did! I've had it done since May and it's running great with no leaks and no issues!
I will post videos soon of the procedure, some tips on doing this, and the final product.
Cool, I don't need to do it YET, but I know it's coming some day.
@@mattkrumal239 where are the videos?
I thought I had it bad with my 3.0's oil leaks! This reminds me of the 2.7 l v6 Chrysler made , similar water pump issues
Mopar? Imagine that. 🤦🏻♂️
great video, glad to see you changed the timing chain as well. I think the slack in the chain is what causes excessive vibration in these pumps a lot of time and ruins them. I did the same job two years ago, hated those power steering bolt, , just a diyer changed tensioner and oil pump, guides, chain as well just because I had access to it.
Great video and very helpful! I don't see how you can compliment Ford engineers on design when you have to pull the motor to replace the water pump!
Dont have to pull it just remove timing cover. Still a pain but not terrible and alot of the work is just replacing parts that you might as well swap while you also have access to them
It's a truck engine in a car. They had to do something to make it fit. In the F-150 the pump is externally driven because there is room for it. At least it isn't nearly as bad as a Topaz where you have to drop the motor to replace the belts. There is exactly 1/8" between the dampener and frame. Have to remove the engine and transmission in order to replace the water pump. I'll take this job on the Flex any day over the Topaz.
The problem with these water pumps is that there is too much chain tensioner pressure causing the pump shaft bearing and seals to prematurely fail.
I think the reason is that they have not changed the seals and bearings in them since inception!
2013 Mazda cx-9 with 112,000 miles driving and everything goes dead. I couldn’t steer and almost wrecked. Coasted to the bottom of the hill. Check oil and yes slimey greenish oil. Had the vehicle towed home. When I called the Mazda stealership this afternoon he asked if there was coolant mixed in the oil. I said yes there is. He said,”You need a new engine.” I’ll price one then call you back. Still waiting on him to call. I appreciate your videos and knowing it might possible be repairable. Funny how the book recommends change at 120,000 miles, but research shows that literally hundreds have failed before that.
On the duratec 3.0 the water pump is beautifully mounted externally and driven by tail end of cam
@@BigEightiesNewWave and the cadillac Northstar had it driven that way too.
Ford got smart and cut down on its transverse mounted engines. The newer SUV platforms are RWD based which eliminate the need to design such awful things just make it fit in the car..
Ford's 3.0l v6, best v6 ever owned
@@jaunramirez3742 absolutely...the 24 valve duratec is the most reliable v6 I've ever encountered...I've owned and repaired German and Asian v6 ...and the duratecs were the most reliable by far, no oil consumption...and externally mounted water pump, not driven by t chain...
@@jaunramirez3742 GM 3800 v6 is a way better option. Intake gasket is the only hard fix and not half as bad as this water pump
Hi Brian, I know I'm on borrowed time with my daughter's '08 Edge with 200k+ on it and I will be doing this job in the next few weeks. The question is two part: Change the oil pump at that time and the cam phasers? This engine has no signs of any leaks and has been ultra reliable.
And I thought the water pump was time consuming in my mom's old escort lol, I still say they are building vehicles now so you have to take them in instead if doing the work yourself. But that is my opinion
Have a 2014 with 171K on it. Going to have a BS test done to check on coolant. Mine is Ecoboost, so a LOT more parts to remove, but will do the entire timing chain at the same time. Engine runs great.
Brian, thanks for the useful information. keep up the good work. Also, I hear a lot of people bitching about having to change the first water pump at 180,000 miles. Remember the old engines? You had to change the timing chain and water pumps every 30,000 miles and plugs every year? I think if your first service is 100,000 miles then you got off easy. You pay either way. Technology is the reason this 3.5 Ford makes more power than your big block Chevy.
Those usually go out at 120,000.
Nice to hear a good mechanic. Thanks for sharing. You can’t drain the coolant first?
Great video as usual..
Is there a block drain on this engine , so as to not get coolant spilling into oil pan ?
I’m looking at buying a late model Taurus and I’m hearing this is the #1 killer of those cars. But right now I have a 2012 F150 with the 3.7 and the water pump on that has been fine at 75k. Rear axle is junk but at the water pump is good! 👍👍
It's a totally different water pump setup on your truck.
Great info, my 2010 Edge with a 3.5 has 160,000 miles. The engine and car have never gave me a ounce of trouble so I will gladly pay someone to change my water pump and it’s never a bad idea to have the timing chains and tensioners inspected anyways.
This is exactly what I'm thinking with my 2010 Fusion Sport! 127000 miles with not one single issue until this water pump. It's just too bad my warranty ended 2 months ago..
another great video thanks Brian. I have a 2012 edge awd with 120000km on it. I will have to keep on eye on it now. Geesh awfully expensive job for a water pump. Having said that there was a ton of miles of this engine so no matter what you have, you got to put money in them eventually unless its a Toyota lol. Love my edge though
Yeah, 14 hours to swap a water pump. SOB!
Bob Earley I've done 3 of them in the last 6 months. I've got it down to 9.5-10 hours...
I have it done in 6
@@SFBay69 Experience is everything and not breaking stuff of course. Gotta give props to the wretcher/mechanics out there
@@SFBay69 6 hours is still Absurd for a water pump job. The fact that you have to rip the car apart is just stupid. I did one in my 03' Escalade and it took one hour, including the time it took to wait in line at AutoZone and the clean up afterwards.
I don't think I'll be buying too many newer cars, at least without a warranty. Water pumps used to be a 1 he job on a Saturday morning in your garage . Sadly it's came down to the labor rate it takes to replace the whole engine
@@LSp8 I agree.....but it is what it is
Awesome video! The water pump failed on my 2011 Explorer with 95,000 miles, had about a gallon of antifreeze in the oil which caused the phasers to go out. The dealer recommended replacing the engine for $6K. I recommend the extended warranty if you plan to drive a car with this design.
nikond90 The issue is very rare, maybe 100 people out of the millions of fords with this engine, but good advice nonetheless. Unfortunately, every engine on the planet is going to have something go wrong eventually.
Puff the Magic Dragon Agreed !!
….and I recommend you never buy another vehicle from Ford ever again. (Or any other manufacturer that buries a water pump inside of the engine, and forces the timing chain to drive it) Not only is it a stupid design; but a predatory and sneaky one at that. Designed by the vehicle’s creator to separate you from your money, when the engine on that thing fails catastrophically, in 3-5 years.
Next time, buy a Honda or a Toyota. Don’t mess around with any other vehicles.
Keeping an eye on my 08 cx9 with 102k miles. May try this myself at some point but doesn't look fun. I am watching my overflow bottle carefully. But I have also heard these can have sudden impeller bearing failure and sudden coolant dump. But with my regular Mobil 1 synthetic changes, that is unlikely. Great motor aside from this. Although changing my stretch belt was incredibly difficult due to proximity to the frame rail.
maybe a pain in situations like this but I will take a timing chain that doesn't require changing every 60-90k miles versus 200k plus. Also, timing chain motors usually don't jump time as often especially on high hp motors. Thanks for sharing sire.
I've got a 99 buick century 3100 with 344,000 miles
.
Had to do the timing cover gasket and found my chain guide was broken at the top, and chain is quite loose
.
Yet, it has never skipped a tooth
Maybe around 450,000 miles it might.... but idk if I can keep her going that long lol
.
Gotta hit the lotto and do a "frame" up restoration on it
.
I love that little century
Wish it had a 3.8 (aka, 99 regal)
.
But it's simple, has knobs VS touch screen....TPMS uses abs wheel speed instead of costly sensors
.
And so easy to work on
I have a 2010 Ford Taurus 3.5 engine started leaking coolant at 200,000 miles I put this stop leak copper in it and no more leak no more coolant mixing with the oil shop told me to fix it $1,600 I said not today now it has 250,000 still working
Good video mate. Been looking at doing mine and they say the engine has to come out, looking at this it has more room than a lot of cambelts I’ve done. Good work!
Oh thats a real good idea, bury the water pump deep inside the engine so when it fails it destroys the engine, an engineering marvel amazing
Chrysler did it too with their 2.7 v6 engine.
Don’t forget about the GM Quad 4
I worry about this often. Especially on days of extreme temperatures, hot or cold. My Lincoln MKZ is at 240 on original pump. In the summer i remove the engine cover/ skid plate, thinking more air keeps the motor a few degrees cooler. I have the ability to fix it myself. I also feel like "if it's not broke, don't mess with it", but check the oil ridiculously often!
Swaping one of these in my shop right now doing water pump and timing chain as well before we swap em. Ill never own a ford edge.
WATER PUMP FAILURE - BLOWN ENGINE: I have a 2010 Edge - I drive about 5K a year these days. A couple of months ago the water pump failed - only 65K in my Edge and I am having to replace the motor now. (really poor design by Ford) I didn't get any warning at the time of failure, water temp went high and damage was done! No "check engine" or other warning lights? Thanks Ford.
Similar thing happened to me after my 2013 Taurus water pump was replaced due to a leak. Engine catastrophically failed 3 weeks after water pump replaced. Awful. Won't ever buy another Ford.
This is a really stupid design on this water pump. This seems to otherwise be a great reliable engine, but this design feature is a ticking time bomb. The only thing you can do is preventive maintenance, change it out at a particular mileage interval, and hope that one doesn't fail prematurely.
did you watch any of this video? there is a specific weep hole channel to divert the leak outside of the block first, so you can check for leaks externally
I have to agree. Having turned wrenches for decades now and even more today, it seems car owners just don't recognize they have a problem soon enough and continue to drive a vehicle when they shouldn't. Of I owned one of these I would be changing the water pump at life expectancy. Take no chances that the weep hole isn't leaking. He even points out in this video that this is a possible scenario.
@@andiarrohnds5163 Ok, did YOU watch the fucking video??? There is MORE THAN ONE place that it can fail and with ONLY ONE way will it leak out the designed weephole. The other way (the bearings, which is BY FAR the MOST COMMON point of failure) gives you ZERO warning. The only thing worse than a know-it-all is a fucking ARROGANT, IGNORANT know-it-all.
Took your advice we changed the water pump on our taurus at a local ford shop, ran abou$3000.
The car has 178000 on it now and we plan on keeping it for 8 to 10 more years or 300,000 which ever comes first.
Ford: How can we screw this great engine up like we did to the 5.4 3V ??
Engineer: Hold my beer...
Brilliant design FoMoCo. Just like the PTO brilliant
Chrysler 2.7 are the same way. At one point my father got one for free after the chain slipped because the water pump failed. I changed both the heads with junkyard ones timing chain kit and guides. Probably would have cost a fortune at the dealer. I think we had six or seven hundred bucks in it. Ran good till the end.......... which was when the transmission started slipping around 180k😊. Then it was time for it to go.
Yeah it's a really stupid design but if you think about it. Most timing belt driven cars are the same way. But you never really have water pump issues because you always change it when you're doing the timing belt. But now that it's chain people forget about the water pump. And then it ceases and skips the chain and now your valves are bent.
So as great as timing chains are for the smaller engines, it makes people forget about maintenance that still needs to be done, water pumps tensioners and tensioner guides don't last forever.
I am still a big fan of older cars. A simpler time. But in the end they all have their own issues. As great as all this high-tech stuff is they break.
I’m seriously considering the purchase of a used Lincoln with the 3.5 with 75,000 miles on it. The car is immaculate and priced right. You know I’ll be on my back with a flashlight looking behind the alternator after I do the rest drive. I am the scared owner of an Edge with the 2.0 Ecoboost and have been losing sleep worried about the coolant cross over block channel issue. Honestly, can Ford not build anything right?
Very informative videos, I have 2010 flex and an 06 f150. My question is after hearing you recommend changing the 5-20w oil to 5-30 in the 5.4 triton, I was wondering if you recommended a different viscosity on the duratec3.5? Also want to know which antifreeze you recommend for both engines? Thanks to your channel maybe I can keep these Fords going a while.
I had an '07 Edge complete with 190,000 miles, the 6F50 transaxle shudder, quarter panel corrosion, and a water pump showing signs of eminent failure. Sold it 4 months ago for $2000. It was a great running vehicle, but I got my moneys worth out of it.
Glad to know about this. Won’t be buying one of these cars.
Why not rhey arw still great cars
@@gotzgetcake Why would you buy something that can be characterized as a ticking time bomb?
@@harrison4ever125 i have a police Taurus no issues so far if it lasts u a while its worth putting money into it
@@harrison4ever125 my neighbor was a mechanic for the Toronto police. He said outside of this single issue the engine is very reliable. He said just replace these preemptively. Its a problem that shouldn't exist but it appears to be the one issue in an otherwise good power train
@@harrison4ever125 okay the thing is every engine has something that fails first, you won't find a perfect engine
Oh wow that is really good to know about that leaking passage.
Timing chain driven pumps make absolutley no sense, they serve only to make the dealerships money, I think i'll stick with my 3.0 OHV lol
Chrysler did this as well.
@@johnstark5324 Yeah with the 2.7 POS. So glad my Hemi is built properly with the water pump outside.
I was a dealership tech for a while. They don't make any money on designs this stupid. Half of these that fail will end up in the junkyard.
@@brianborell4469 I used to work at a Ford dealer and I went to visit and was shocked to see how few cars were in the body shop. It used to be a 3 week back log back in the early 00's now it's a ghost town. The reason, the new cars are disposable. Literally. One fender bender and a side certain airbag deployment will total a car instantly, even if the actual bodywork is reasonably repairable. Seems like the case for the foreseeable future with mechanical issues. I can't imagine the longevity of one of these new electric cars the manufacturers are hastily trying to put in everyones driveway. I guess I'm destined to be an old timer and will keep my prehistoric early 00's cars as long as possible. Not a big fan of being forced to take my car to the dealer for everything but that's what these assholes want and now we got $2000 water pump jobs to look forward to. SMFH
@@LSp8 It's the throw-away generation, everyone wants a new phone every year or two, a new car every few years, nothing is made to last outside of warranty (not that anyone honors their warranties anyway). I'll stick to my gutless old beaters that I can wrench myself, if I ever need more power I'll cobble a junkyard turbo setup.
I guess I’m one of the lucky ones. I have a 2007 Mazda CX 9 with 255K miles and never had a problem. Didn’t know about the weep hole will check tomorrow.
I remember when Ford advertised with the motto “Ford has a better idea”.
Uhhhhhh..yeah.
Easy to see why they don’t use that motto anymore.
I've had two Lincoln MKS's...a '10 and a '14 each with the 3.7L engine. Loved the cars and their power. Each car ended up totaled...maybe blessings in disguise. Went back to Cadillac XTS but hate it. Would really like another MKS but I'm afraid to roll the dice. May have to settle for an Ecoboost 4banger MKZ...or go to an Audi. Sad. I never thought I'd see the day I'd rather have a Ford product than a GM product but my Cadillac doesn't hold a candle to my former MKS.
I gotcha.. Let's not learn ANYTHING from Chrysler's 2.7 disaster..
@Ray Milligan If the pumps gaskets leak, you see the weeping on the Duratec 35/37. If the shaft seal fails, it dumps into the oil pan.
Last Saturday was going to do the front brakes on my wife's Flex. Back the car up to make room. Saw a puddle of coolant. Traced the leak to the weep hole behind the alternator. Told my wife, we need to get your car to the dealership. Check to see if you are still under the extended warranty. Warranty ends in April. Cost nothing to have the water pump replaced. It's a good thing I'm an ex-mechanic.
Hell no! Sell it at the end of warranty and never buy a used one. Thx for the warning.
The water pump on my 2010 Ford Edge just failed with zero warning, whilst we were driving 60 mph on the Freeway. The first sign that anything was wrong was the heat stopped working inside the car. The next second the engine started vibrating and stalling. We managed to pull off the Freeway, just before it completely died. We opened the hood and the engine had clearly overheated and was steaming hot. We tried adding a full bottle of coolant but it just leaked straight through and onto the ground, it wasn't leaking before this incident. The vehicle was towed to the Ford Dealership for diagnostics. It was bad news unfortunately. When the water pump failed, with no warning whatsoever, it caused coolant to leak into the engine/oil and destroyed our engine completely. All of this happened in the space of two minutes. Two minutes is all it took for this failed pump to completely wreck the engine. No warning lights came on until AFTER the damage had already started. The check engine light came on after the pump failed and by then it was too late. We are now looking at $4000 for a new engine if the warranty company refuses to pay up. Labor costs will be added on top of the $4000 too. Right now the warranty company is making us pay $650 to have the engine pulled apart, so they can try and prove that we somehow caused this pump to fail. Yep, we are having to pay $650 so that the warranty company can try and find a reason, in some nook and cranny of the engine, to not cover the cost of a new engine. I feel so sad about all of this. I also feel sorry for anyone else with this kind of engine because on researching this I have found that this is happening to numerous other people. Thanks for putting up this video. This may reach some people before they find themselves in my position. I am just hoping that the warranty company covers this, otherwise I am stuck paying for a car for the next five years that I can't afford to fix. I have only had the car 8 months too :'(
Hope everything panned out for you.
Thanks for the honesty.
By far, your videos are superb! I am quite thrilled perhaps by hearing you say that the 2012 and newer don't necessarily have this same issue. I have a 12 MKZ with around 82,000. Should I be as concerned? I did cross reference from a few auto part sites that there indeed is a dual sprocket setup that is different from the 2011 MKZ. I feel a little tingle in my stomach as to not be as concerned with this issue as of yet; am I right to feel this way? I am dealing with the AWD as well and your 30,000 mile service is well in my head. No matter what though, thank you for all that you do. It is a major blessing to us common folk.
Im thinking about buying one, is it still running good?
Does it not effect the 2011 model?
@@lukesylvester2022 Still no issue, but I am changing the fluid to the newer Ford P-OAT Green coolant. People are saying the fluid is easier on the water pump seal. Fingers crossed.
@@eightiesgod Alright!
@@eightiesgod you mean the new yellowish green. I did a coolant flush on my 11 ford explorer
What a nightmare to replace! What used to be a fairly easy job when they were externally mounted! Not something I would want to tackle on a Saturday afternoon.
@FordTechMakuloco - Quick question leveraging your experience, have you noticed these water pumps failing at a lower mileage on vehicles using the Motorcraft Specialty Green Coolant (like Mazda FL-22 coolant) or the Motorcraft Orange Coolant (similar to Dex-Cool)? From my limited research it seem to me that these pumps were lasting longer when the Motorcraft Gold Coolant (similar to G-05) was used (as shown your video). Thanks in advance.
I have a 2011 Taurus SEL specialty green coolent ( changed every 60K ) and the car current has 189K ( taken can of very well ) no leads as of yet and never been changed. BUT parts were order 5 days ago and should be here today . Changing every thing in the front of the motor including oil pump . My goal is 450K-5500K
My moms 2015 Ford Explorer Limiteds water pump failed at 64k miles. Just 4K after warranty and is not honored. We ended up paying $2,140 after a couple of “discounts.” Ford Corporate was no help what so ever. Called 3 different times with the same stupid answer. Customer satisfaction my ass, I even tried negotiating the price and that wouldn’t work either. 😡
Would frequent coolant changes let’s say every 30,000 miles help extend the life of the water pump seal I have a 2010 edge with 115,000 miles so far so good
Go to the MACT Ford Edge RUclips channel. They go into a great amount of detail about this subject. Great videos!
Leaking behind alt, dam near cried!!!! water pump failure...$2,400.00. 196,586 miles on her. Now my suspension squeaking like crazy.
Derrick Wright of you got almost 200K miles then that is a good run even with a $2400 repair bill and whatever the suspension work will be!!
Wish I watched this sooner, my water pump just completely destroyed my engine. Good thing I bought a warranty when I got the car so its covered
Just finished one of these in a flex.
Cash pay side money. Not too bad, didn't need to pull the engine or the subframe as compared to doing timing chains on a Chevy 3.6.
Damn - wish I had seen this, 6 months ago, replacing engine in my 2009 Flex - only 124k miles on it. Stalled out twice on wife, thank god she wasn't on the highway. Absolute shame they can't get this engine right. Love this car!
if your looking into buying one of these Ford Vehicles, Brian would recommend asking questions, take it to a shop, ask questions about the engine (water pump), check the mileage/km if it has more than 100K miles/160k KM, best to tell them if it has been replaced, if so when but still i would make sure... cause have some leeway to fund the replacement of the water pump, expect like what brian quoted, ($1200-$2000) always go on the high side, if you looking to purchase a vehicle with these engines, they are not so bad until they are done right, last a long time.. if someone is selling a 2012 ford flex for $9900 with 120,000 miles i'd recommend only offer $5000-$5800 therefore you have wiggle room for the water pump to be replaced and what other thing you want done... always do history on engine check out his other videos on these engines what to look for when buying a vehicle, Brian might even let you know what to look for...
What mileage do you usually notice these? recommended place for parts? Thanks for the video. I love my Milwaukee too
@fordtechmakuloco this is my question too
Mine was 39,000
2017 ford explorer low miles ford screwed everyone on this one and the courts are on their side for no recall wtf
That class action lawsuit against Ford for doing this is well deserved, they charge thousands and thousands of dollars for these cars, and make it darn near impossible to fix
Nice!! Too much work for a water pump, sheesh!!
We got fortunate on our mkz with 118k miles, it apparently was only leaking through the weep hole, and all of it leaked out unknowingly on her way to work. We just had it serviced 2 weeks prior and coolant was still full and nobody said anything about it leaking. Total including the tow 50 miles to our ex ford mechanic $1300, but other than that its been great.
Other than the questionable design of the internal water pump, this seems to be the most reliable Ford engine, as good as anything from Japan or Europe. For Honda owners, this is a $1100 procedure (water pump and timing belt) at a dealer
Yes it is very reliable otherwise.
Agreed , Just purchased 2016 Transit 3.7L. All my research praised this engine for reliability. I think 180000 miles this engine looks great and with the guide problems ect this was perfect timing. I am old school but am here to tell you. This little 6cyl performs great in my Transit 350 wagon. I like the "Hit me once " drive it problem free another 200000 :)
Brian have you videoed this job ? I don't think I seen one for the Durtec.
The only thing a Ford has in common with Japanese vehicles is the both have air in the tires
Lexus has a 3.5L Engine. WP is external. Has an extra set of injectors to wash the valves so no DI issues. The starters are very reliable but the Exhaust manifold and pipe has to be dropped to replace it. Probably cost the same as this repair at the dealer.
Great video 👍🏼
But I noticed that you didn't have to pull the whole engine out to do this. My mechanic said the engine needs to come out. "Ford Taurus 2013" police interceptor
Not needed, the only model the engine must come out is the Fusion Sporr
Looks fun, im a learning mechanic and love these kind of challenges. Are all the bolts holding the WP in the same length?
Had this done on my 2010 fusion sport 3.5 110k miles and a ford dealer wanted $2800 in labor because motor had to be dropped out. OUCH! I was lucky i noticed i was loosing coolant and it was coming out of the weep hole behind the alternator!
13 Ford Taurus 3.5L around 150K had it done for $1,400. My 11 F150 has the 3.7L but it has a normal waterpump. Did that one also around 150K, so is the 3.7 you mentioned the transverse? BTW I like the Taurus but I'll never buy another one just for this reason. If I can't work on it, then they can keep it.
Wish a reputable shop like yours was in SoCal. Recommend anyone?
I have a 3.0 duretec, the water pump is in the back of the engine (Drivers side) and drive by a small belt off one of the cams. why change something that works? I was looking at going to the next gen Mazda6 but not now.
The point was so a 3.5 would fit into a 3.0 platform
Swapped out the radiator in my moms 09 ford flex still over heating so im guessing the water pump is bad
I don’t got 14 hours to work on it and it’s on its last leg so it Time to say goodbye
Good vid let’s me know what I was getting into before I jumped the gun
That's a horrid design. Good thing they weren't idiotic enough to use the same water pump on the longitudinal 3.7 engines.
I think I'm more interested in that little impact wrench thing you got there than the engine. I'm going to have to pick one up now. lol
Are there any tips for prolonging the life of the pump such as frequent coolant flushes?
Not much you can do the gold engine coolant is a good coolant and will lubricate to 100k no sweat. Now the new OAT coolant I would be swapping that out every 60k miles.
Frequent fluid changes should help up to a point. Eventually, the pump will just plain wear out. I have a 2010 Taurus with this engine. I do my own oil changes and send a sample of the used oil to a nearby lab to be analyzed. They test for both water and calcium in the oil. My hope is to catch the leakage in it's beginning stages before it turns into a catastrophic failure. I also monitor very closely the coolant level in the degas bottle.
Here's another symptom: an intermittent stench of something burning under the hood. Sometimes at a traffic light we'd get a sudden waft of burning coolant. My wife's car was weeping and burning off the coolant, but I was looking for an oil leak when the car was cold. Dry as a bone. It wasn't until it got worse and started leaving a puddle of coolant on the ground and losing coolant in the tank did I suspect the pump. Ran it weeping like that at least a year before realizing what happened. No coolant in the oil though!!
I have a 2014 Taurus sel 3.5..Everyday I wish I would have kept my 03 mustang gt...
i have an 04 mustang gt myself, had an opportunity to upgrade to a newer ford many times, but i refuse to get a modern vehicle because of how simple and easy it is to work on this car and the the transmission dipstick is a major plus for transmission maintenance.
Love my '01 gt. The 4.6 and 5.4 two valve engines go well over 300k miles.
How many actually fail though? Heard after 2012 models it rarely happens.
@@neilcarter77 Got my 14 Taurus sel water pump and timing belt replaced a month ago
@@gballa2730 i own two a 2013 and 14 . No issues, what so ever. 100k on the 2013
Daughter just had this done on her 2014 Tarsus. Cost was $2100 at the dealership.
Ahh, welcome to 21st Century engineering! Remember, this is "progress", people! Smile and TAKE IT!
Just planning for this as our '08 MKZ has 131k miles. Just changed the starter in it, been a good car overall but plenty of small annoying issues & this damn water pump is certainly one of them!! Will start looking for coolant drips & monitor the coolant reservoir. Great video, thank you!!
I just replaced one today and the water pump was a defective part smh
I have to probably do a motor replacement and buying a new not used for my SHO. I wish this guy was near me to do it.
That's a big ordeal just to swap a water pump. I'll just keep rebuilding my old 300. May scour the junk yards and find a few extras to have on hand.
Yeah you could buy three or four of those motors and still have a few bucks left over to buy beers compared to what it costs to pay someone to fix this water pump.
Robert Nugent and have 3 or 4 more reliable engines. Last one u had had 340k on it and was still running strong when a tree fell on it
Hello. A beautiful result. My mazda cx9 3.7 engine has 210,000 miles. Original pump. Original timing. What does valve clearance look like? Do the pushers need to be replaced?
Do you have to re time the engine after this procedure?
No just put the chain back whatever way you want
@@alexrosado3890 😂
I can remember when changing out a water pump, was something fairly simple that a guy could do in his yard in about an hour or so. Why did they do this? There's absolutely no way in hell I would even attempt one of these. I have a 2009 Lincoln MKX with 186k miles on it. It's a beautiful car, and I really enjoy driving it. I'm considering getting this done pretty soon, so I won't have to worry about it breaking on me while I'm out and about
Luckily are edge was certified preowned everything that goes bad on water pump cooling fans brake booster power steering pump all changed under warranty before 100k we are selling it once the warranty goes out
FORD4LIFE73 only power train I believe, not everything
I have a friend with a 3.5 in a 2013 Taurus, 231K no problems, just regular maintenance, 3.5, no water pump or timing chain required yet
I saw green fluid come out of this water pump. Normally the correct fluid is FL22. I 🤔 is this correlated with better lasting seals bearings when you actually use correct fluid!?
Just saying!
The timing chain guide "upgrade" mentioned is very different from original. The aftermarket kits DO include this updated guide, but it is completely DIFFERENT than the original. The replacement installs completely different than original. THIS NEEDS TO BE NOTED! The upgraded part is designed to guide the chain on the OPPOSITE side of the chain from the original that is being removed! If you dont know this, you assume they included the wrong replacement part in the kit!!
Still a great engine. I've got 100 thousand and still going great
are you planning on getting the pump replaced. I have read that 100k you should think about it since a failure while driving can be catastrophic.
@@Jason2003 150k
200k on my 09 MKZ
water pump failed at 155k for me, seems like only first gasket failed. No water in oil, dealer quoting $2k and 1.5 weeks
Tino why the hell would you go to the dealer
How does that work out for you rounding off the head of the bolts before you get the socket in place to back the water pump bolts out? Asking for a friend...
I cringed too lol