I have a Taurus with the 3.5. Here's what I've read on forums. 1. Do not do the 10k mile oil change intervals, change every 5k miles, and use full synthetic oil. 2. Change coolant every 30-40k miles, coolant becomes acidic over time and use. When coolant becomes acidic, it impacts the water pump seal. There are plenty of people in the FB Taurus forum who followed this method and have made it to 200k miles or more without changing the pump. I'm at 50k miles right now, so we'll see how long or far I can go until I need this job done.
I changed my coolant every year. It don’t make no difference. The seal wears out with use. I got to 130k before it needed a new water pump. By the way, Ford only cares that their cars make it past warranty.
Oil should be changed every 3000 miles, not 5000. 200,000 miles is not that great. The 4.6L 2 valve rear wheel drive engine will go twice that far and more with no serious problems with proper maintenance. I change the coolant every 9000 miles on them. Since there is no block drain plugs, you are only replacing less that 1/3 of the coolant. There is no way to get the rest of it out of the block. I use Ford Motorcraft Gold. Best coolant on the market. I also use it in GM and Mopar vehicles. I also use 10w30 oil, instead of the recommended 5w20. The 4.6L does not have VVT, and the higher viscosity oil has a lot better load bearing ability.
I did this job on a Mazda CX9 with the same engine. I fixed it in a weekend. Water pump actually came apart and timing was off a couple teeth luckily it was savable. I fixed it only for parts because they were friends with hardly any money. She was back on the road and she has currently put over 20K miles since the job and is so happy. She had to do a couple 500 mile oil changes at first to get all the coolant out of the oil.
It’s such a shame. We had a flex for a couple years till an accident totaled it. Literally everything else about that car was amazing. Absolutely zero complaints. It’s kind of the perfect vehicle for road trips/camping/families. Rides like a living room. Seats are supremely comfortable for long trips. Holds a ton of people/stuff, easy to get in/out of. Just honestly my favorite car we’ve owned. Shame it happened on the fixed water pump even.
I knew a guy who drove one as a taxi / personal vehicle... The company let him use it as his main vehicle as long as he kept it clean. It made it over 200k miles, but was wrecked.
Car wizard. I've got a 2014 ford taurus 3.5 naturally aspirated, with just over 290,000 miles, all original parts, except standard maintenance wearing parts, like brakes and a wheel bearing. The car runs and drives like brand new, never done a water pump. I'm going to run it until it dies, it quit owing me a penny long ago, so they can be very reliable and inexpensive vehicles. Thanks for all your videos. From Northern MN
@gregkocher5352 it does seem bizarre to have the water pump that inexcusable. But not all of them must be as prone to failer for some reason. My taurus is an AWD as well, I love it in these MN winters. Also for says the PTUs fluid is non serviceable, that is incorrect, i change the fluid between every 30-40,000 miles you just need a little cheapy vacuum hand pump, and the very first time I changed it it only took me 15-20 minutes.
Replaced many of these water pumps at the Ford dealer. It is not that much. Parts and labor was around $1,800. Iit is real easy to do when dropping the subframe and have the engine right there to pull everything of and remove the silicone and clean the surface. Then just doing all the timing and reapplying silicone gasket is much easier. Its not that bad.
My nephew had a 2010 Ford Flex 178k miles with a bad water pump and was quoted $2400 from the dealer(Southern California), definitely not a 4k repair. Good thing we drove it around then junked the pile of crap.😅
@@williamwhite9767 That's independent shops in general, they all believe they're undercutting the dealer by at least half. Not saying dealers are cheap, but in my experience the premium over independent shops isn't all that different these days, maybe 25% on most jobs.
It's important to note that not all 3.5L or 3.7L Cyclone V6s suffer from this issue. It's only the transverse mounted variant (i.e. FWD). The longitudinally mounted (RWD) 3.5s have an external water pump. So you needn't avoid it in the F150 or the Mustang for example. They're actually really good engines aside from that boneheaded design decision. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Cyclone_engine
Yes - my F150 has a very accessable water pump and thermostat. Wizard should insert some captions onscreen to correct his statement that "all Fords with the 3.5 V6 have this problem." Only the transverse-mounted 3.5's have the insane water pump design. Rear wheel drive - it's a good engine. Ford should have a different designation for the two types. Totally different engine.
almost ALL cyclone v6 engines were mounted transversely,. the exception being the 300 HP 3.7 and even then only the v6 equipped mustangs and f150. most of these engines did not get out of Ford-design-jail free.
Every Ford video Wizard posts make me happier and happier waiting around for my lazy old 4.6L F150 to accelerate. At 280,000km (~175,000 miles) I replaced the water pump, accessory pulleys, belt and tensioner. It took me longer to drain and refill the coolant. The only job that is a PITA was replacing the manifold studs on the passenger side. Anyone reading this, you DO NOT need to raise the engine as so many people say you need to do. Having a powered ratchet is key, but you can replace both manifolds while leaving the motor right where it is. If you have an angle drill, you can drill out the broken studs, as long as they are not the 2nd cylinder from the front. All 3 other cylinders are accessible.
@@rachelgreen1368 I've had one Infiniti and two Acura's all with higher mileage, all built in Japan - All 3 needed some type of repairs eventually. Every machine does.
My old man is planning to gift me his 2002 (10th gen) 4.6L 2-valve F150 with 240k miles. What year is yours? I normally DIY all work on my "family fleet" of Toyota and Honda but the older Fords are supposedly also DIY friendly.
Need to ship this Flex to the Philippines. I was on a mission trip there in the late 1990s, and the mission leader's air conditioner quit working. We were on our way through Olongapo on a Saturday at 5 pm. He saw a shop along the street and pulled over. They were about to close, but they came out and diagnosed a leak at a compression fitting. Three guys worked for an hour and a half. They sawed off the old fitting (there were enough threads left to do this) and filed a new compression fitting by hand. After some trial and error they got a good seal and recharged the system. When all was said and done they asked for about $45 for the labor (3 guys x 1.5 hours each!), and the mission leader, being the good Filipino that he was, negotiated it down to about half that much! That's just how they do things in the Philippines!
Before I even watch this video it sounds like another internal water pump leak. This is why you use all OEM parts for this job.. This only applies to transverse mounted 3.5 engines. This same engine in an F150 has an external water pump. You want to replace all the timing components when you do this job
My brother got one of those, a lease return by a fellow employee where he worked. It was up to 160K miles when he sold it after his kids left home for a smaller Civic. No issues with it beyond regular maintenance. Nice rig, having only a V6 made it a bit slow with family and gear in it but it never failed him. Regular maintenance is always the key to getting the max life out of any car.
Why customers get so upset over a $4000 fix but are fine with buying a new $50,000 car which will be worth $10,000 in a few years no issue with losing $40,000 but paying $4000 is the end of the world?
Cause they don't have $4000 cash lying around and their credit cards are maxed out. But the dealer will definitely finance you a new car for 84 months@12.99% APR with the 62 cents you have in your pocket as a down payment.
As a mechanic I absolutely love that generation flex/explorer/taurus. I bought an explorer for $2500 last year with a water pump leak. $250 in parts and under 5 hours I am back in business. And I don’t replace everything, just a motorcraft pump, thermostat, valve cover set, plenum gasket, front crank seal, spark plugs and coolant/oil.
I done this job on my wifes taurus and my cousins taurus. It is time consuming but worth it and not all that bad if you are mechanically inclined and have some experience. You do need the tools to hold the cams in place and DO NOT pry the timing cover off. It is on guide pins and must be worked off evenly otherwise you will break it in half. And no, the engine does not have to come out when doing this job in an Edge, Flex, Taurus or Explorer.
@@watchmanonthewall14 So did Wizard in this video but the person who made the comment I replied to said it's not an engine-out job on the Ford Edge - Just wanted to know which is true since I just bought a 2013 Edge for my oldest sons first car.
Our 2012 Ford Explorer that my step-daughter drives had this issue with its 3.5L V6. Luckily she said something to me about how the heat was lukewarm until she stepped on the gas. Of course, I knew that meant the coolant was low. I knew it was exactly this problem - you could see coolant leaking out of the weep-hole on the front of the engine. Had her immediately stop driving it, and scheduled an appointment at my local mechanic to have the timing-chain/water-pump replaced. And of course a coolant flush and an oil change just in case either of them had become contaminated. Wound up spending about $2,250 on it, because my mechanic charges his actual time, not book-time, and he's developed a "drop the engine out from the bottom" procedure that takes several hours less than the book time. Apparently you can just unbolt the 4 subframe bolts and the whole engine/transmission/suspension assembly will drop right out of the bottom, giving you very easy access to the front of the engine, making the timing-chain/water-pump a breeze. That shows how many of these he's done, that he can develop his own, quicker procedure for doing it. That was about 3 years and 40,000 miles ago, and it seems to be going strong. Zero issues with his repair.
Unfortunately, these internal timing chain or wet belt driven water pumps seem to be getting more popular among all the automakers. Weep hole to where? Into the oil system! If that doesn't get caught soon enough, it will take out all of the lubricated moving parts of that engine. And some manufacturers are using wet belts as I mentioned before. Whose brain fart was that? I have never seen anything rubber, liking being covered with oil. Ain't that swell? I'm actually starting to like not working on the shop floor anymore and trying to enjoy my retirement but when I see this...
Just had the water pump done on my 2015 Flex. I had them change everything that needs servicing while in there. Everything you mentioned AND MORE. The total was $7k. Every time I look at that car, I pray we get it to 200k. Currently at 125k.
@mmsautner, it should be CRIMINAL the way these lousy manufacturers build into vehicles the outrageous costs for repairs, the "defects" which SHOULD be recalled/redesigned, they just pass on to customers and expect us to fork over thousands to repair it all, try to repair it ourselves ON TOP of paying TENS OF THOUSANDS to buy these things. I can't believe that a water pump already needs replacing on your vehicle at less than 130K miles. The fact that these idiots put the water pump behind the timing cover, integrating it with the timing chain system etc., so not only when the water pump fails it will be a much bigger job than it should but it'll eventually dump coolant into your oil pan like it's a catch-can and can ruin the engine.... It's the pinnacle of idiocy and Ford/others should be SUED for that awful design. Water pumps have been external to the timing cover, belt-driven lie any other accessory since the freaking introduction of the combustion engine and suddenly they have the "bright idea" to do this.... It's just as awful as Dodge's "3.6 Pentastar engine tick" where the rollers in the rockers "drop" and the rocker frames begin to SHRED the camshaft lobes.... Then there's the "auto-stop/start" function where you MUST press the button to disable it every time you start a vehicle otherwise, every time you stop it'll shut off the engine, then restart it and claim "This saves gas!" I'd like to see the actual data on that because rudimentary physics tells me that it takes more energy to start a mass rotating than it does to maintain rotation at a given speed for "x" amount of time. Frankly, I believe they're just wearing out the starter/other components prematurely, including the transmission since it has to be in a state of constant stopping/starting/braking and reactivation whilst in gear once your foot is off the brake & on the accelerator again.... Even the "push-button start" was stupid where so long as the key FOB was within some distance, they vehicle could be started/driven away. So your FOB could be on a keychain hanging by your front door, if a thief gains access to the car, they can hop in, start it and drive down the street some distance. One woman drove a 1/4 mile down the highway before the vehicle shut down after "key FOB out of range".... It was still in the pocket of her boyfriend she just ran over and left lying on the side of the highway after an argument.... Push-button start should ONLY ALLOW the vehicle to start WITH the FOB INSIDE the vehicle. If using "remote start", then drivability should be DISABLED UNTIL the FOB is inside the vehicle. I don't understand how these people who are supposed to possess "higher levels of education" with Programming/Engineering degrees, end up being so stupid.
A couple of comments: These are actually extremely reliable vehicles and can be a good buy if you get one that has good service records. As for the water pumps in these, if you follow the manufacturer recommended maintenance intervals and change the coolant as directed, the pump will last at least 150K, often 200K miles. If you simply budget and plan to replace them with only OEM parts at around 150K miles, you will likely see 300-400,000 miles out of the car without any other major issues. I know two people with them; one had his done before he bought it with 200K and he's over 300K now without any issues. The other had his fail at 170K and it cost him $2500 to get it done and he's well over 200K now without any issues. Neither uses or leaks oil nor has needed any other major repairs other than maintenance. I think it was dumb to put the pump inside, but if you take care of it right and expect to replace it between 150K-200K miles then you'll have a fresh timing set and be set for a long service life and relatively low cost of ownership. The only other thing is if it's an AWD model you also need to change the PTO fluid periodically to keep that in good shape. Otherwise these things are as bulletproof as you can get on any modern car. If that owner had paid you to fix it right this time using OEM parts, they'd have a reliable car for $4K. They will not find a better car for $4K out of pocket so I think the advice to dump is was bad.
Yes... BUT, isn't just a shame that a water pump replacement will likely result in a vehicle being "totalled out"? And many times, a shop will just dump stop-leak into it, charge the big bucks, and send it down the road.
I was thinking along those same lines. Even with the replacement cost, $1000 per year of service isn't bad compared to buying a new(er) vehicle. You could have a MONTHLY car payment not far from that amount and it could have $$ problems too. I drove a Flex once and really liked it.
I totally agree with you! I have a 2010 flex that has been good to me. I'm a mature car owner so I understand once in a while problems. I had to replace my ptu once because the dealer put mixed match tires on it and that ruined the ptu. I changed the unit and replace the fluid every 30k now. If I ever need a timing chain or water pump change I'll have to do it myself or travel to Kansas to let the wizard change it. No way will I give up my flex that easily! I'll buy that flex from them and do the job. I would love another flex.
Ain't it funny to design an engine that purposely fails? We see it in all manufacturers. We know it's on purpose. Ford and other manufacturers do it to keep dealership mechanics busy. They already can be...
we have a 2018 and LOVE it! the water pump is always the boogy man, but 3 grand is average for the repair. Just keep the oil, trans fluid and coolant fresh and no worries. stay away from turbo awd. throwing away cars just because of total value is just dumb, 4 grand will just be sales tax on a new car, then you'll loose another 20k in deprecation. It has no rust, fix it and drive it another 10 years. Every year I swap out two gallons of coolant fluid, takes 20 minutes.
If I understand correctly, it's the bearings in the water pump that often go bad, resulting in the leakage. Will changing the coolant help with that? This is an honest question - I have a 2013 Edge with the 3.5, and have changed the coolant every 20K miles
@@PaulOnuska You have to ask yourself WHY the bearings go bad... is it from the old never changed coolant corroding the seals and that then leaking and destroying the bearing itself... or is it that the actual bearing material used just can't take the heat/cold cycles and self destructs as the pump rotates? In either case the only thing you can do to try to help keep the water pump going is to keeping draining and then refreshing the coolant..... So far it has worked for you.... Read all the other comments re when the pump went out for those owners...and whether or not they changed to coolant...and at what intervals?
@@PaulOnuska it's the seals, there is an oil side seal and coolant side seal, you gotta keep the right pH fluid. old coolant even eats head gaskets in Toyotas. and you gotta use Oem , not some china part store junk
I had to to this about two years ago on my 16 Ford Explorer 3.5L NA. Cost me $1678 OTD at a family owned shop. Owner said it was a chore and that his full time Mechanic spent 10 hours doing it. This was done at 86,000 Miles. Now I am at 107K and have been trouble free since. Once a month I check my coolant level and I do my own oil changes so that helps. This spring I plan on changing out my coolant for the newer yellow Ford coolant that has been noted on some of the forms to help prevent corrosion/ seal issues on the water pump. Note: this was for plugs, gaskets, timing chain set and water pump.
Ya, old guy i know had 1 of those 4k dollar water leaks. He's a retired firefighter. Well, it's so ironic the thing caught on fire a couple of days later, and his insurance paid him...
Sold my 2011 Flex SEL this year with 220k on it because the water pump went and 3 shops quoted around $3400CAD to repair. Bought a 99 Buick Lesabre with 100k mi based on wizards advice, however its needed about $2500CAD in repairs, sway bar end links, brake master cylinder, rotors and pads, spark plugs and wires, valve cover gaskets, tires, and headlight bulbs. Previous owner seemed to only do oil changes, however parts and labour are cheap compared to the flex.
Thank you car wizard for sharing your knowledge. I have been able to diagnose and fix many problems on my old beetle and other older cars by watching your videos.. Most mechanics will not help unless you pay the 100+ diagnostic fees up front. Which I understand. A mechanic can't make money giving free advice, than having the owner fix it himself. So thanks for giving us backyard mechanics information we can use so we try not to tackle problems blindly.
There's a lot of cars where the water pump is in the "center" of the engine within the timing chain/belt area. Honda V-6 and Subaru 2.0/2.5 comes to mind. Yes a GM 3800 or 3500 the water pump sticks onto the side of the engine; but it's a different engine design. Another problem is people assume a big car means there's plenty of room to work on everything; not always true.
12:45 ONLY REPLACE PARTS THAT ARE WORN OUT OR AGED if its working good don't change it new parts can sometimes have defects, quality issues that will create a new wear pattern, increasing wear, its should all be marked and put back exactly the same way to retain its balance and wear pattern/lash its sort of like a line bored equipment you don't want to interchange pieces, the chains have seated/machined together in a sense
We own a 2009 Ford Flex. Bought it new. Change the oil every 5k, and have around 74k miles. In 16 years we’ve only had to change the ABS module besides routine maintenance. Given the mileage and the price of new vehicles today, I’m spending that $4k on this car when the pump goes. But, I’m insisting on all Ford parts when the job is done. I’m not sure it makes a difference, but the 2009 was the first year of the model and it was the last year with the Duratec 3.5 engine. I believe all models after that had the Ecotec engine.
Ecotec is GM I believe you mean Ecoboost. The 2014-2016 Flex had ecoboost options for the limited models. Fantastic vehicles! My grandma used to call it the Refrigerator XD
Another commenter on here said he had the job done by a mechanic that charged $2500 and who dropped the engine out the bottom of the car so it could be worked on easily saving time (and money)....
@daveh5490 17 minutes ago I have a Taurus with the 3.5. Here's what I've read on forums. 1. Do not do the 10k mile oil change intervals, change every 5k miles, and use full synthetic oil. 2. Change coolant every 30-40k miles, coolant becomes acidic over time and use. When coolant becomes acidic, it impacts the water pump seal. There are plenty of people in the FB Taurus forum who followed this method and have made it to 200k miles or more without changing the pump. I'm at 50k miles right now, so we'll see how long or far I can go until I need this job done.
Ecotech=GM Ecoboost=Ford I have a 2010 non-ecoboost non-turbo AWD flex with this engine. When this happens to me, I'll be doing the job myself since I'm the only one I can trust at my price point. FordTechmakuloko suggested changing using the melling water pump instead of the Fomoko or OEM. I'm going back to his video on this same vehicle to be sure.
Don’t cost 4,000 it’s around 1,500 to 1,800 with oem parts ! Dealership get them done one day ! We just had it done with all new guides , chain tensioners and new gaskets for 1800 dollar.
Not the only car with water pump in a tough place. They might regret getting rid of the car as the cost of a replacement will be more. Another Ford Flex, even if it is good NOW, it might not be later and you are in the same situation again plus you have a used car you don't know the history of. This car has no rust and is clean. If it still suits the needs of the family, fix it, BUT be sure it gets good parts and the person doing the job knows what they are doing. $4000 is a lot for a repair but it is getting to be the norm. A new vehicle is $50,000 now so $4000 doesn't look that bad even taking into account the book value of it. Years ago I did an engine in my car that cost MORE than I paid for the car. You fixed stuff because new was a WHOLE lot more.
@hotpuppy1, in this case I'd be looking at going after whoever performed the service work, either parts/labor are to blame because I've NEVER heard of a water pump going out after just ~4 yrs where the pump itself wasn't defective or the installer was at fault. If it was a choice of paying out of pocket again, it depends on whether the vehicle was worth that or would you be better off selling/trading it in, disclosing the water pump issue and then just buy something else new or used.
@@hotpuppy1 The cost of this job could exceed the value of the car and if they had spent it, it would be $8000 in repairs adjusted for inflation in 4 years. The owner should have sold the vehicle after it’s been repaired 4 years ago. I would just sell it and buy a Toyota Sienna or Highlander. There’s plenty of these older model Toyotas that sell for $20,000 or less and are around the same age as the Ford Flex.
@@atx-cvpi_99 Dude a flex is like 9000$... Who the fuck buys a 20 000$ car after they sell their injured car for 2000$ because it's broken. Debt is for fucking morons. The car wizard is RIDICULOUS on this perticular diagnosis video. It's like he's disconnected from reality.
I have 2013 limited with 165,000 and it has the ecoboost. I had owned the car for almost 7 years and I still love it. In 2023 I had to replace the water pump and the kit does come with a new chain and tensioners with the waterpump. Total cost was $2300. Then in September my check engine light came on and as it turns out one of the tensioners failed. The good news was the parts were still under warranty so I have a new waterpump, chain, tensioners, and they replaced the cam phasers. Total cost for this round was $1200. In the 7 years we have driven the car 120,000 miles, drive across the country several times. With all that, I have spent around $6000 not including tires and oil changes. I will still pay to fix it as it’s hard to find a replacement that is easy to get into even the rear and haul and drives comfortably. The only thing I don’t like is I have to replace the tires every 2 years.
We used to own a 2015 Flex With the same engine, and it was a really good vehicle, I really loved it. But in retrospect, I am now glad we got rid of it when we did😂
My 2010 has 240,000 miles and runs like new. Just regular fluid changes. I know of numerous Flex's with 200,000 + miles and some with 300, 000+ miles with zero issues. Just do regular fluid changes. The wizard is a joke on this one.
I have two of these engines. The key is to change red coolant for yellow and then change it once a year. I have seen these pumps go for about 200k with proper maintenance
My Flex is such an all-around great car. But you would think Ford would have solved the water pump problem years ago for this engine. Maybe Ford doesn't care to improve their engineering.
With lots of these dumb decisions it looks like a packaging problem... Engineers had to design an engine with a small footprint because of some other design.
The water pump issues mostly come with age its almost luck if any given w/p will fail early or go 300k miles. Just like any other waterpump. Usually, the bearings start getting loose and leak coolant. Ford was smart enough to engineer a double seal on the w/p so the coolant can leak outside before it leaks into the oil. Gives you a chance to see a problem before it gets much worse. Though it is sad they couldn't make it external.
@@Alfadragon17 that's how you know engineers were forced into it for other reasons. They put the time into protecting the engine, but were forced to make it internal from some other design.
Its tempting to get one or a MKT. In my situation i can use a large 3 row vehicle, but i need something that doesnt sit high off the ground. Those two seem like the best choices for me and my family.
@@volvo09 absolutely a packaging “solution”. This is how they get the 3.5 to fit in a transverse FWD orientation. Longitudinal engines get an external water pump.
the real sad thing about the design of this engine is the engine as a whole is actually a good design you stay up on your maintenance and it’ll go a long time the water pump location was a poor choice as it is what ends up destroying these engines and it’s not cheap to fix. I personally really love the Ford flex. It would be a vehicle I own. It’s very well built lots of room for the size and it’s available in all wheel drive but that water pump does scare me I have a friend that has one hasn’t had a problem yet. It has been replaced once prior to his ownership. We put UV die in his cooling system to make it easier to see when it does start to leak out the weep hole and drip he has had no problems. Otherwise watch your oil and your coolant people on these vehicles set up a regular check at gas fill ups and you can catch it before it can damage the engine as coolant and water do not mix
Now you know why I say that the last good car built in North America was the model "A" Ford ! Tongue in cheek I know, but My two vehicles are a 97 Dodge 3/4 ton 4X4 diesel & a 2003 Buick Park ave with the series two 3800 V6. They will both last me until I die. You have saved many people a lot of money Sir. Always enjoy your videos. Cheers! from the snowy hinterlands of of Alberta , Canada....where men are men & sheep are nervous.
Our 08 Expedition with the 3 valve 5.4 has over 350,000 miles on the original motor and has never left us on the side of the road. Which is surprising given the 3 valves rocky history
@patriotgarage Very true, it's been the best car we've ever had period. And I would not have a problem getting another one that has been properly maintained of course.
Thanks for all the great input as well as comments, with newer cars $$$$$$$ , i will keep wrenching on my older ones. Plan to change coolant ALOT more often after seeing this on wife's 2014 edge. Videos like this have saved me thousands of $, and time.
Of course it's worth doing even if it's more than the car is worth. I'm not going to go spend 45,000 to 60000 on a new explorer. Especially when it's the same engine that's going to have the same problem. That Ford flex is clean. Fix it and drive it for another 5 years.
I agree. $4000 today wont get you anything even half that clean. Shitty situation but I’d pay it and cross my fingers for another 4-5 years of good use out of it.
Ford Planned Obsolescence at work here, back in the 1980's it was Head Gaskets on their 3.8 V-6's that would Fail @80 K miles. The fix was a Fel - Pro Head Gasket that did not fail !
The Flex is not really a planned obsolescence car considering they often last 300K plus miles. This is a stupid design and anti-DIY, but if you have to drop a couple grand every 150-200K miles in an otherwise reliable car, you're doing better than almost anything you could buy today. Those HG issues in the 80s (and 90s) weren't planned obsolescence either, it was just an issue of them going to aluminum heads on an iron block to meet EPA requirements and they didn't design the gasket well enough to handle the uneven expansion/contraction of the two kinds of metals. I had a 1990 Thunderbird SC and it blew the HGs at 64K miles but they weren't too bad to fix and would last forever if you studded them. I have an 03 F150 Harley with the 5.4 SC engine and it's still on the original HG going on 22 years old and 250K+ miles with about 100HP in mods to it. They figured it out. Now today we're talking planned obsolescence, but that's the case with them all. The electronics will become obsolete and the plastic intakes/cooling parts will all get brittle and fail and it will cost more than the value to fix. The EPA is hyper focused on tailpipe emissions, but fails to consider the junk that will end up in the landfill and the carbon produced replacing things every 8-10 years that should last decades.
@@mikelemoine4267 I laugh every time I see one at the Pick n Pull yard with the Engine Taken Apart and the parts are in the back Cargo Area. I have seen this with every Flex that shows up !
@@lilibethdoherty295 I guess they get it apart and can't figure out how to put it back together LOL! My Nephew had the transmission go on his old Silverado and asked about getting one from the pick a part. I told him to find a wrecked one as it means it ran when it was last driven. The nice looking ones usually have major mechanical issues🙂
This is a common issue anymore. Manufacturers are designing vehicles to look pretty, and service takes a back seat. This has been going on for years now. We are all paying the price for buying pretty cars.
4k to fix a nice 2013 car that you haven't had to make payments on in years? Worth fixing. Cars aren't free once they're paid off. 4k is a little high based on what other commenters have stated.
It is high compared to the $1700 to $2400 I've heard quoted to do this job. I've been tracking this issue as I have a 2010 flex with 173k miles. I'll have to do it myself to be sure it was done and not put stop leak without actually changing the pump like what may have happened in the wizard's customer's case.
@@billfly2186that won’t work. Because of the design, if the inner seal fails, which it will, the coolant will leak into the oil pan and mix with the engine oil. You’ll get that chocolate milkshake.
My brother's got one, about the same vintage. It's been relatively trouble free, but, the issues that have cropped up have all been big-ticket items. Transmission, transfer case, differentials, etc.
This issue also affects the 3.7. Same engine but a larger bore. Besides the water pump design these things can be reliable. I've seen several fleet vehicles with the 3.7 clock 250K-300K miles such as MKTs
@THEEVERYTHINGTHINGCHANNEL Alot of the Ecoboost engines also have issued where the block cracks and coolant starts to leak into to cylinders. Absolutely horrible engines.
@jundialhaqiqa9907 That was a known issue on 2017-2019 four cylinder (1.5l, 1.6l, 2.0l) models only. As mentioned in this video, it’s the internal water pump that is an issue on the longitudinal v6’s. And, as the video also shows, it’s not just the ecoboost versions of those engines either.
I usually agree with the Wizard. I have had that 3.5L in over 10 explorers and flexes and have had zero issues. All of them well over 200k miles and I know some of them are still on the road. With everything being 4 cy turbos and junk now, sometimes it's best to acknowledge that old naturally asparted it's were glory, Wizard that 3.5L v6 is hardly not available anymore, due to turbos 2.3, 2.7 and 3.7 turbos, junk....
@@lesliewoinarowicz7018 IF the water pump fails, it's ridiculously expensive. Mine is eight years old. Low miles. Routine maintenance. Tire and battery replacement, due to age. Runs great. Fingers crossed.
I've got a 2011 Flex with 230K miles. Original engine, water pump, and transmission. My kids are driving it to school, and my fingers are crossed that the water pump holds out until they're in their next cars.
I'm guessing no one told them to drain and fill the radiator every year, which is absolutely necessary for any vehicle with the transverse Ford 3.5L V6. (The truck versions of this engine have an external water pump.) It's old acidic coolant that kills the seals in these pumps, and replacing 1-2 gallons of coolant mix annually is a whole lot cheaper and easier than the alternative.
A substantial part of the expense in engine maintenance emerged in the 1970s, when Overhead Cams became a selling point. Few engines spun fast enough to benefit from them nevertheless they were eventually applied to all, even Diesels 🤪 Today, the overwhelming majority of drivers would enjoy similar performance and economy from a pushrod engine with a gear-driven camshaft and no belts, chains, guides or tensioners to cause heavy expense or catastrophic failure.
I replaced an internal water pump on a 2007 Edge @ 150k. It totally seized the engine and milkshake oil. Was able to replace the pump and timing chain and it lived. Hardest part is removing the power steering pump bolts to get the timing cover off. Very little room reinstall the timing cover but it can be done...
I had a Ford Edge did replace chains and water pump all in car, it was a 2012. I will never buy any car with a water pump so are to get to. A few other thing I've learned. No cars with CVT, Bad water pump location and Turbos. I'll probably end up with a turbo in something unfortunately.. Keep up the good work!
I've had three Toyotas all with a CVT. Not a hiccup from any of them in hundreds of thousands of miles of driving. There are good CVT transmissions and bad ones. Choose wisely grasshopper.
Surprisingly, the CVT in my Dodge Caliber was rock steady. Of course, it was from the period when Daimler owned Chrysler and actually improved things. Now the CVT in the Saturn VUE was junk. Luckily I sold it before it died. You are 100% right to avoid any vehicle with turbo, cvt, or internal water pump. (Car Wizard showed some German engine that even had internal thermostat!) Good idea to also avoid direct injection, sunroof, and auto stop/start.
They are lucky they don’t have an AWD or 4WD version. The PTU’s fail around 80-100k miles. They only hold a 1/2 qt of lube and it’s surrounded by the engine, transmission and cat, so that PTU and fluid gets cooked! I did my fluid at 70k and it was black like mud. A lot of the early ones didn’t even have drain plugs. Drilled and tapped one. I now change it once a year or every 12k miles.
Told my X wife for several years she needed to dump her Taurus for that same reason. She ignored me and finally got the leak. To fix that and new plugs and wires was 6k.
Take DVOM . Ground well. Remove radiator cap. Insert positive INTO COOLANT. Take millivolt reading. Turn key on. Record reading. Start engine, record reading. Sometimes it will read very high while running. Drain coolant, refill with factory coolant using DISTILLED water. Drain block if possible. Install additional negative grounds if possible. Recheck three reading sets.
Many of us have faced the question you raise. This pump replacement will cost what a used identical car will cost, so not worth fixing. Often I have chosen to do the expensive repair, because I like the car and a used one with an original pump that does not leak will likely leak soon. So my expensive repair for the same price does buy me reliability and familiarity with the condition of the car.
The 4K quote is almost all labor. Also the average price to PAY to have WP done should be 2500 max. I did both my MKS 3.5 and 3.7 WP's and timing parts for $500 each, I bought both used and did both WP's before even driving the cars with all OEM parts. The 3.7 had 165K on her and the 3.5 had 125K on her, The 3.7 WP was alittle loose and the 3.5 WP was tight as new,
ya, he is throwing the kitchen sink at it. new chains, guides, tensioners probably phasers. I understand the "do it all or nothing" I did one sway bar link for a customer and the other failed 4 months later. the complaining was unheard of even though we TOLD them the other would likely fail in the near future.
2007 Ford Edge great condition. We had the Motorcraft water pump, valve gaskets, spark plugs, timing chain, chain guide, tensioner, oil change, coolant change. Had it done because I needed the vehicle and the value was a bit more than the job. We got quotes from $2.5k-5k.
Mine's 2016. Bought new. Low miles. Routine maintenance. Tires and battery replaced, due to age. Runs great. Fingers crossed, because I enjoy driving it.
Yup. My hobby suv right now is a V10 Diesel Touareg. 18 hours to remove the engive and put turbo's on it. If they fail I'll redo everything. Daily is a rusted out 97 F150 with the bullet proof 4.6L. Just had the front end rebuilt for next to nothing.
Glad to see another useful yt from the Wizard that could help normal folks avoid bad vehicles. I like hearing about the Caddy but this is more helpful.
Chances are this Flex will be sold or traded eventually and even if the owner is truthful about the water pump issue it will probably end up with a used car dealer who will not be honest about it. The troubles will just be kicked down the road to another unfortunate buyer. Caveat Emptor (let the buyer beware) is all too true when shopping for used cars.
Yes always best to look up a used vehicle on the net to find their problems ! saved us from buying a 2024 nissan Rogue with 3cyl turbo with their Eng and trans problems.
My partner bought a used 2008 Lincoln MKZ 3.5 AWD from a private seller and it only lasted 4 months, cause that dang water pump went and it overheated the engine. He had to scrap the car. My Saturn's 2.2 Ecotec also has a chain/water pump design, but it does stick out the back of the engine and bolts on. However, you have to get a special tool to hold the chain when removing the pump.
The Ford Fusion and the Lincoln MKZ is engine out. Unless it’s an F150, Mustang, or Transit van, you shouldn’t buy any Ford product a with a 3.5 or 3.7. The water pumps are external on RWD applications. You could reuse the timing chains but I would not recommend doing that especially on the 3.5 EcoBoost since all first generation 3.5 EcoBoost is well known for timing chain issues. Even the 4 cylinder EcoBoost options in the Edge, Explorer, and Taurus have major issues too. All the twin scroll EcoBoost 2.0 engines prior to 2020 had defective engine blocks with coolant intrusion and that also applies to the 1.5, 1.6, and some 2.3 EcoBoost engines as well.
Thats not true in regards to the Ecoboost 2.0. Thats 2017 and up engine blocks except for the Edge, which was the first Ford to get the new design. Ecoboost motors before that had a superior, closed deck Mazda based design.
My 2013 explorer with 3.5 ecoboost needs this done. Im doing this to mine this winter. I look forward to it. Been a while since ive dived into an engine. Shouldnt be too bad. Worst part is engine orientation. Ill rebuild the turbos while im at it.
I have a 2014 Explorer with the 3.5 N/A. While doing an oil change one day I noticed coolant dripping off of the ac compressor and I knew what that meant. Had the water pump done for $3k. I went with the job because I bought the Explorer outright almost 5 years ago.
@@tinleo333 Not just water pump problems my boy. It's other bullshit tactics car companies do to make sure your out of warranty car is in the dealership so they can scalp every cent out of your bank.
The 2K+ water pump. Quite common. As well as the PTU destruction if it's an AWD unit. There's a block plug behind the front cat converter. It's hard to get at, but if you can, it's worth it. That way upon water pump replacement, the coolant won't flood the oil pan.
Yup, my 2014 Taurus SHO has this engine. My water pump went out went out but fortunately I provided my own labor ... I think book time is over 10 hours. I recommend only using OEM parts, especially the waterpump. You don't want to use a cheap aftermarket pump just to have it fail prematurely. Better to replace the whole timing chain system including the cam gear which will probably be a updated version. As for the tight working room, as you jack up the front of the engine, it will tilt and away from the fender and frame giving lots of working room without dropping the engine cradle... It is time consuming though...luckily a friend let me use his shop rack...
Had a 2014 Explorer with 3.5 and ran it 130,000 miles with zero issues but traded it in on a Toyota 3.5 with external water pump so I can sleep at night !!!!
@@The0utmode These things will last 300K easily if maintained and aside from an expensive water pump job in that timeframe, they will likely need little else.
@@mikelemoine4267 Ford figured out how to dumb down a timing chain so much that it lasts as long as a timing belt and costs more to service. planed obsolescence at it's finest!
@@The0utmode The timing chains don't fail on them but since you have to remove the cover to change the pump most shops just do chains to refresh the engine. There are quite a few engines designed this way from several manufacturers. One notable one is the Chrysler 2.7V6, but those usually blew up long before the timing chain or water pump failed....
Was actually thinking of buying a Flex recently. I was already aware of the water pump issue, but I love the styling and interior room that these cars have. However, the more I look, the more it seems to be a pricey trade-off. This video is probably a sign that I have to get an f150 or a mustang with an NA V6 instead (since they're RWD with an easy-to-replace water pump).
My mom's elderly neighbor got taken to the cleaners at the Ford dealer for what started as an inspection sticker and a drip in her driveway. They told her the vehicle (Ford Edge)needed tires, brakes, shocks, plugs, filters, etc. etc. After all that work, and before it left the shop they told her she needed a new water pump. I think the invoice exceeded 10K
@ the car is only driven a thousand miles a year. Tires were over ten years old and the tread still looked new. She typically gets an inspection and an oil change and that’s it. Sad
Absolutely right about the commander... I have 3 boys 8 mos, 3 yr, 6yr.... Those little boys are my world. My wife is a superhero i keep her comfortable as i can... We have 2 99-06 gm trucks hers is a 2002 yukon Denali woth 240k and ol girl does her job everyday no complaints(the yukon of course hunnie)
No Ford did it first in the 1.0L Ecoboost.. And its a disaster. GM now does it in the 1.2L 3cyl and has a wet belt for the oil pump on the 3.0L inline six diesel.
It’s really gonna vary on so many shops for the job. Some can do 2k and some will go up to 7k in my area. I have the 3.7 V6 which is the same as the 3.5s pretty much mechanically. But my repair for my 3.7 V6 was 2600 due to the outer gasket failed which sucks but caught very early when it happened. Overall these engines are pretty solid if you take care of them. Keep oil changes on top and change the coolant. Also the 3.7 duratecs can be found in the police interceptors, some Lincoln’s, 11-14 mustang and some Mazdas
I'm glad that the 3.5 ecoboost I have in my f150 has the external water pump. My mom had a explorer and my sister has a explorer that has that engine and if the water pump goes out in her explorer I'll replace the water pump, timing chains and phasers myself
I actually considered a Ford Flex several years ago, until I found out about it's JUNK engine. It reminded me of the old International Travelall. That was a VERY reliable vehicle that almost never broke down, and even when/if it did, it was easy to fix. A bad freeze plug (correctly called a "core plug") can be a big job on ANY engine, sometimes requiring engine removal to replace. Even the older 1960s/1970s Ford/GM/Mopar engines, which had excellent designs, had these plugs in locations that simply could not be reached with the engine in the vehicle. Fortunately back in those days, removing an engine was far simpler than it is in "modern" vehicles. 4:55 the timing comp[onents on that engine are an absolute nightmare. No competent engineer would have designed something like that. I am a recently retired mechanic. No way would it be a good deal for me. First of all, I didn't retire to keep working. Yes I work on my older vintage cars. That is fun. Working on a POS like this is NOT fun. And I can't spread it out over a long period of time. I have no place to keep a vehicle with a partially disassembled engine to keep dirt out of it. Being 65, the time I have left is far too valuable to waste it working on garbage like this.
Is the replacement water pump same/better quality? What is the average miles when these fail? What was the mileage when the first pump failed? Mileage now? Perfect interior, exterior, on 3.5 MKZ, 100k miles, I would repair and continue to drive because I love the car.
I have heard that the replacements tend to last longer. The recommendation is to replace the water pump every 100k miles. I had the pump replaced on my 2007 MKZ about 60k miles ago. Shop around. The job is a lot of hours, so if you can find a lower hourly rate, it will make a big difference. Let's say you end up spending $3k. You are not going to find another good car for $3k, nor are you going to find a similar MKZ with a newer water pump for $3k.
I have a 2010 flex. I'm budgeting for this job in the future as I can't envision replacing this car with anything. I love it that much! RUclipsr FordTechmakuloko recommended replacing the pump with a melling not an OEM. I'm looking for that video to be sure though.
If the chains & guides are absolutely pristine showing zero wear, the is absolutely no reason to throw new ones in there. I understand why you have that "rule" ... there is a thing called discretion. Get the customer to sign off on it - done. It's not like slapping on a new serpentine belt, there can be some real money involved there.
@@blueblood76 not 170 for every car and 170 bucks can be a BIG deal to quite a few people right now. Not a risk if you have eyes, ears and two brain cells between your ears to make a logical decision.
My 2010 Flex is a fantastic vehicle. Very clean slab like lines that I love. To me as the model years went on it became unnecessarily busy on the outside styling.My only issue is the cd player doesn't work.No coolant issues for me yet touch wood. Would have loved to see what The Wizard was pointing his mirror at but an ad to buy one popped up and stayed on the whole time.
This engine is in all of our Ford Taurus police cars here. The City Garage doesn't even tackle these; they get sent to the dealer. It costs nearly $2,000.00 for a water pump replacement. $2,000! No thanks. It's another reason that I keep fixing up my older rides as I am fortunate to no live in the Rust Belt.
Gotta love the union job. Shameful they are paying mechanics that can’t even do heavy work like that. I can knock them out in under 5 hours on the Taurus/explorer non turbos
Maybe my family has been lucky, we have owned 3 Taurus cars and 2 Ford Flex crossovers and not experienced water pump issues. If did happen we would have them repaired, new or good used vehicles are too expensive. If this worries you too much, purchase extended vehicle warranty but make sure it covers this repair.
They spent whatever they spent 4 years ago, that's water under the bridge. $4k more and the likelihood that the job will be done 100% right is way cheaper than getting another car. Heck as long as it last one more year its cheaper than getting another car. I have a '14 Taurus with 165k on it that I paid $18k for about 8 years ago and I'm getting ready to do this job in the spring. If I couldn't do it myself, I would be happy to pay the wizard $4k to do it since there are no cars for $4k that will be in better condition than what I already have. No reason that mine and their Flex won't get another 100k miles...
My niece has a Flex. The Flex shares a lot of parts with the Explorer. Sadly because they are not very common, body parts are hard to find at times. This is a problem because she keeps finding walls with her bumpers/front fenders. At least with everything inside being much easier to find, we can keep it running.
This must be really hard for you David. I know you get a lot of satisfaction in helping your customers. The complication of new vehicles is just expensive to work on compared to somewhat older vehicles.
I have a Taurus with the 3.5. Here's what I've read on forums. 1. Do not do the 10k mile oil change intervals, change every 5k miles, and use full synthetic oil. 2. Change coolant every 30-40k miles, coolant becomes acidic over time and use. When coolant becomes acidic, it impacts the water pump seal. There are plenty of people in the FB Taurus forum who followed this method and have made it to 200k miles or more without changing the pump. I'm at 50k miles right now, so we'll see how long or far I can go until I need this job done.
I read a post on another forum that said the same thing. Makes sense since the water pump is exposed to coolant and oil.
I changed my coolant every year. It don’t make no difference. The seal wears out with use. I got to 130k before it needed a new water pump. By the way, Ford only cares that their cars make it past warranty.
Who thought it was a good idea to do a 10k mile oil change interval on a car it’s not a semi truck
Oil should be changed every 3000 miles, not 5000. 200,000 miles is not that great. The 4.6L 2 valve rear wheel drive engine will go twice that far and more with no serious problems with proper maintenance. I change the coolant every 9000 miles on them. Since there is no block drain plugs, you are only replacing less that 1/3 of the coolant. There is no way to get the rest of it out of the block. I use Ford Motorcraft Gold. Best coolant on the market. I also use it in GM and Mopar vehicles. I also use 10w30 oil, instead of the recommended 5w20. The 4.6L does not have VVT, and the higher viscosity oil has a lot better load bearing ability.
I got 140k on my mkz and it was still fine bug but I traded it because of rust
I did this job on a Mazda CX9 with the same engine. I fixed it in a weekend. Water pump actually came apart and timing was off a couple teeth luckily it was savable. I fixed it only for parts because they were friends with hardly any money. She was back on the road and she has currently put over 20K miles since the job and is so happy. She had to do a couple 500 mile oil changes at first to get all the coolant out of the oil.
They are lucky to have a good friend like you!
It’s such a shame. We had a flex for a couple years till an accident totaled it. Literally everything else about that car was amazing. Absolutely zero complaints. It’s kind of the perfect vehicle for road trips/camping/families. Rides like a living room. Seats are supremely comfortable for long trips. Holds a ton of people/stuff, easy to get in/out of. Just honestly my favorite car we’ve owned.
Shame it happened on the fixed water pump even.
BMW is much better.
@@rachelgreen1368lmao no
I knew a guy who drove one as a taxi / personal vehicle... The company let him use it as his main vehicle as long as he kept it clean.
It made it over 200k miles, but was wrecked.
@@BubblesTheCat1 Another humorist. We are commenting on cars not buckboards.
@@rachelgreen1368 Funny, very funny. Some people are such humorists.
Car wizard. I've got a 2014 ford taurus 3.5 naturally aspirated, with just over 290,000 miles, all original parts, except standard maintenance wearing parts, like brakes and a wheel bearing.
The car runs and drives like brand new, never done a water pump. I'm going to run it until it dies, it quit owing me a penny long ago, so they can be very reliable and inexpensive vehicles.
Thanks for all your videos. From Northern MN
I WAS considering buying an AWD Flex. Need the room for wheelchairs. Insane engineering choices.
@@gregkocher5352 my 2010 was AWD ecoboost Limited! It was awesome LOADED, reliable, powerful, fast.
@gregkocher5352 it does seem bizarre to have the water pump that inexcusable.
But not all of them must be as prone to failer for some reason.
My taurus is an AWD as well, I love it in these MN winters.
Also for says the PTUs fluid is non serviceable, that is incorrect, i change the fluid between every 30-40,000 miles you just need a little cheapy vacuum hand pump, and the very first time I changed it it only took me 15-20 minutes.
Same results with my 2010 Flex, 240, 000 miles. Runs like a tank with class.
Did you replace the coolant alot because that can help the issue honestly, bad coolant eats seals.
Replaced many of these water pumps at the Ford dealer. It is not that much. Parts and labor was around $1,800. Iit is real easy to do when dropping the subframe and have the engine right there to pull everything of and remove the silicone and clean the surface. Then just doing all the timing and reapplying silicone gasket is much easier. Its not that bad.
After calling around I got quotes for $3000-5000....... DIY for
Wizard loves to complain.
@@apocolypse11 And over estimate a job.
My nephew had a 2010 Ford Flex 178k miles with a bad water pump and was quoted $2400 from the dealer(Southern California), definitely not a 4k repair. Good thing we drove it around then junked the pile of crap.😅
@@williamwhite9767 That's independent shops in general, they all believe they're undercutting the dealer by at least half. Not saying dealers are cheap, but in my experience the premium over independent shops isn't all that different these days, maybe 25% on most jobs.
It's important to note that not all 3.5L or 3.7L Cyclone V6s suffer from this issue. It's only the transverse mounted variant (i.e. FWD). The longitudinally mounted (RWD) 3.5s have an external water pump. So you needn't avoid it in the F150 or the Mustang for example. They're actually really good engines aside from that boneheaded design decision. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Cyclone_engine
Yes - my F150 has a very accessable water pump and thermostat. Wizard should insert some captions onscreen to correct his statement that "all Fords with the 3.5 V6 have this problem." Only the transverse-mounted 3.5's have the insane water pump design. Rear wheel drive - it's a good engine. Ford should have a different designation for the two types. Totally different engine.
I had that exact question, thanks for answering it! I wonder if the Taurus has this problem
@@fyodor8008 It does. Check the Wikipedia page above for affected models.
Bonehead!
almost ALL cyclone v6 engines were mounted transversely,. the exception being the 300 HP 3.7 and even then only the v6 equipped mustangs and f150. most of these engines did not get out of Ford-design-jail free.
Every Ford video Wizard posts make me happier and happier waiting around for my lazy old 4.6L F150 to accelerate. At 280,000km (~175,000 miles) I replaced the water pump, accessory pulleys, belt and tensioner. It took me longer to drain and refill the coolant. The only job that is a PITA was replacing the manifold studs on the passenger side.
Anyone reading this, you DO NOT need to raise the engine as so many people say you need to do. Having a powered ratchet is key, but you can replace both manifolds while leaving the motor right where it is. If you have an angle drill, you can drill out the broken studs, as long as they are not the 2nd cylinder from the front. All 3 other cylinders are accessible.
My Infiniti has 180k miles on it, all original, no repairs. Built in Japan.
2004 Explorer 4.0 about to hit 187k.
@@rachelgreen1368 I've had one Infiniti and two Acura's all with higher mileage, all built in Japan - All 3 needed some type of repairs eventually. Every machine does.
My old man is planning to gift me his 2002 (10th gen) 4.6L 2-valve F150 with 240k miles. What year is yours? I normally DIY all work on my "family fleet" of Toyota and Honda but the older Fords are supposedly also DIY friendly.
Immoral that Ford engineers designed it this way!
Need to ship this Flex to the Philippines. I was on a mission trip there in the late 1990s, and the mission leader's air conditioner quit working. We were on our way through Olongapo on a Saturday at 5 pm. He saw a shop along the street and pulled over. They were about to close, but they came out and diagnosed a leak at a compression fitting. Three guys worked for an hour and a half. They sawed off the old fitting (there were enough threads left to do this) and filed a new compression fitting by hand. After some trial and error they got a good seal and recharged the system. When all was said and done they asked for about $45 for the labor (3 guys x 1.5 hours each!), and the mission leader, being the good Filipino that he was, negotiated it down to about half that much! That's just how they do things in the Philippines!
Before I even watch this video it sounds like another internal water pump leak. This is why you use all OEM parts for this job.. This only applies to transverse mounted 3.5 engines. This same engine in an F150 has an external water pump. You want to replace all the timing components when you do this job
My brother got one of those, a lease return by a fellow employee where he worked. It was up to 160K miles when he sold it after his kids left home for a smaller Civic. No issues with it beyond regular maintenance. Nice rig, having only a V6 made it a bit slow with family and gear in it but it never failed him. Regular maintenance is always the key to getting the max life out of any car.
Slow!? I put my foot down on mine and it's like a rocket!
Traded my 2013 Flex in when this happened. Bought an Expedition & it's water pump replacement cost $500 4 years later.
😮 I hope fuel is cheap where you live otherwise you've spent more in the extra fuel for the expedition
you essentially trade for the same vehicle. They both had that same ecoboost engine
water pump for my '72 Dodge 440 4bbl truck was 50 bux new
My 4.0 Cherokee is 25 years old and I've never had to replace the water pump... lol
Why customers get so upset over a $4000 fix but are fine with buying a new $50,000 car which will be worth $10,000 in a few years no issue with losing $40,000 but paying $4000 is the end of the world?
I don't get it either!
The water pump alone is not a 4000 job
Cause they don't have $4000 cash lying around and their credit cards are maxed out. But the dealer will definitely finance you a new car for 84 months@12.99% APR with the 62 cents you have in your pocket as a down payment.
It’s doing it twice that makes them upset. Also it’s designed to cost a fortune to fix.
They may not be the first owner. 4k is not a huge percentage of 50k, but it is a pretty big hit if you paid 10k for the car.
As a mechanic I absolutely love that generation flex/explorer/taurus. I bought an explorer for $2500 last year with a water pump leak. $250 in parts and under 5 hours I am back in business. And I don’t replace everything, just a motorcraft pump, thermostat, valve cover set, plenum gasket, front crank seal, spark plugs and coolant/oil.
Some of those have 3.7 but same flaw. I did mine with a friend and it's not a fun job even if you have the parts.
Isn't that Explorer rear wheel drive? Much easier job.
@@JohnnyLightningV10none of the Ford Flex had a 3.7. Every one of them. Some were naturally aspirated some were turbo charged.
@@sayrerowan734 no. 11-19 explorer powertrain layout is transverse
@mrmerc51 Dude I was replying above Taurus as he references had 3.7s. I know because I had one and the water pump went. Read more post less my friend.
I done this job on my wifes taurus and my cousins taurus. It is time consuming but worth it and not all that bad if you are mechanically inclined and have some experience. You do need the tools to hold the cams in place and DO NOT pry the timing cover off. It is on guide pins and must be worked off evenly otherwise you will break it in half. And no, the engine does not have to come out when doing this job in an Edge, Flex, Taurus or Explorer.
So which Ford's need the engine pulled to do this job then? Or is he just mistaken?
@@Stressless2023 The wizard is not as good as he appears.
@@Stressless2023 Another commenter said the Edge engine needs to be pulled due to zero room to work in the engine bay.
@@watchmanonthewall14 So did Wizard in this video but the person who made the comment I replied to said it's not an engine-out job on the Ford Edge - Just wanted to know which is true since I just bought a 2013 Edge for my oldest sons first car.
@@watchmanonthewall14you don’t need to pull the engine, you go through the passenger side wheel well
Our 2012 Ford Explorer that my step-daughter drives had this issue with its 3.5L V6. Luckily she said something to me about how the heat was lukewarm until she stepped on the gas. Of course, I knew that meant the coolant was low.
I knew it was exactly this problem - you could see coolant leaking out of the weep-hole on the front of the engine. Had her immediately stop driving it, and scheduled an appointment at my local mechanic to have the timing-chain/water-pump replaced. And of course a coolant flush and an oil change just in case either of them had become contaminated. Wound up spending about $2,250 on it, because my mechanic charges his actual time, not book-time, and he's developed a "drop the engine out from the bottom" procedure that takes several hours less than the book time. Apparently you can just unbolt the 4 subframe bolts and the whole engine/transmission/suspension assembly will drop right out of the bottom, giving you very easy access to the front of the engine, making the timing-chain/water-pump a breeze. That shows how many of these he's done, that he can develop his own, quicker procedure for doing it.
That was about 3 years and 40,000 miles ago, and it seems to be going strong. Zero issues with his repair.
How many miles were on it when it started to leak?
@ 140,600 miles, approximately.
@@LMacNeillchange your transmission fluid also and this thing will last forever !
That's nice. Does your mechanic live near Berkeley, California by chance?
Unfortunately, these internal timing chain or wet belt driven water pumps seem to be getting more popular among all the automakers. Weep hole to where? Into the oil system! If that doesn't get caught soon enough, it will take out all of the lubricated moving parts of that engine.
And some manufacturers are using wet belts as I mentioned before. Whose brain fart was that? I have never seen anything rubber, liking being covered with oil. Ain't that swell?
I'm actually starting to like not working on the shop floor anymore and trying to enjoy my retirement but when I see this...
Just had the water pump done on my 2015 Flex. I had them change everything that needs servicing while in there. Everything you mentioned AND MORE. The total was $7k. Every time I look at that car, I pray we get it to 200k. Currently at 125k.
My flex is at 300k. Never changed the water pump and had it since 2014. Is an 09...I have the Lincoln mkt same engine. 200 k no issues.
You just gotta know a mechanic… I did one for a friend for 500$ plus parts
@@bryceridens8452 hey if you were near me I'd pay. I'm going to need to change my turbos on my MKT
@mmsautner, it should be CRIMINAL the way these lousy manufacturers build into vehicles the outrageous costs for repairs, the "defects" which SHOULD be recalled/redesigned, they just pass on to customers and expect us to fork over thousands to repair it all, try to repair it ourselves ON TOP of paying TENS OF THOUSANDS to buy these things. I can't believe that a water pump already needs replacing on your vehicle at less than 130K miles. The fact that these idiots put the water pump behind the timing cover, integrating it with the timing chain system etc., so not only when the water pump fails it will be a much bigger job than it should but it'll eventually dump coolant into your oil pan like it's a catch-can and can ruin the engine.... It's the pinnacle of idiocy and Ford/others should be SUED for that awful design. Water pumps have been external to the timing cover, belt-driven lie any other accessory since the freaking introduction of the combustion engine and suddenly they have the "bright idea" to do this.... It's just as awful as Dodge's "3.6 Pentastar engine tick" where the rollers in the rockers "drop" and the rocker frames begin to SHRED the camshaft lobes....
Then there's the "auto-stop/start" function where you MUST press the button to disable it every time you start a vehicle otherwise, every time you stop it'll shut off the engine, then restart it and claim "This saves gas!" I'd like to see the actual data on that because rudimentary physics tells me that it takes more energy to start a mass rotating than it does to maintain rotation at a given speed for "x" amount of time. Frankly, I believe they're just wearing out the starter/other components prematurely, including the transmission since it has to be in a state of constant stopping/starting/braking and reactivation whilst in gear once your foot is off the brake & on the accelerator again.... Even the "push-button start" was stupid where so long as the key FOB was within some distance, they vehicle could be started/driven away. So your FOB could be on a keychain hanging by your front door, if a thief gains access to the car, they can hop in, start it and drive down the street some distance. One woman drove a 1/4 mile down the highway before the vehicle shut down after "key FOB out of range".... It was still in the pocket of her boyfriend she just ran over and left lying on the side of the highway after an argument.... Push-button start should ONLY ALLOW the vehicle to start WITH the FOB INSIDE the vehicle. If using "remote start", then drivability should be DISABLED UNTIL the FOB is inside the vehicle. I don't understand how these people who are supposed to possess "higher levels of education" with Programming/Engineering degrees, end up being so stupid.
@@bryceridens8452 you in Florida? I need my turbos replaced lol
I'm sorry, but with the prices of vehicles today I would instant fix this and replace the timing chains and all the parts.
The customer probably figured that when they did the job the first time figuring it wouldn't fail for a while, let a lone 4 years later.
And there are so many reliable vehicles that are at the same price point as the fix or less. Older yes but reliability is key
If this was the first time… sure. But they don’t want to do this AGAIN on an 11 year old car
Why you pay for quality OEM parts every time
agree i do it in a heartbeat worth it
That's a nice well kept looking vehicle. Surely if the pump is replaced with one that has double sealing, it's worth fixing.
A couple of comments: These are actually extremely reliable vehicles and can be a good buy if you get one that has good service records. As for the water pumps in these, if you follow the manufacturer recommended maintenance intervals and change the coolant as directed, the pump will last at least 150K, often 200K miles. If you simply budget and plan to replace them with only OEM parts at around 150K miles, you will likely see 300-400,000 miles out of the car without any other major issues. I know two people with them; one had his done before he bought it with 200K and he's over 300K now without any issues. The other had his fail at 170K and it cost him $2500 to get it done and he's well over 200K now without any issues. Neither uses or leaks oil nor has needed any other major repairs other than maintenance.
I think it was dumb to put the pump inside, but if you take care of it right and expect to replace it between 150K-200K miles then you'll have a fresh timing set and be set for a long service life and relatively low cost of ownership. The only other thing is if it's an AWD model you also need to change the PTO fluid periodically to keep that in good shape. Otherwise these things are as bulletproof as you can get on any modern car. If that owner had paid you to fix it right this time using OEM parts, they'd have a reliable car for $4K. They will not find a better car for $4K out of pocket so I think the advice to dump is was bad.
@mikelemoine4267 Thanks for the insight.
Yes... BUT, isn't just a shame that a water pump replacement will likely result in a vehicle being "totalled out"?
And many times, a shop will just dump stop-leak into it, charge the big bucks, and send it down the road.
I was thinking along those same lines. Even with the replacement cost, $1000 per year of service isn't bad compared to buying a new(er) vehicle. You could have a MONTHLY car payment not far from that amount and it could have $$ problems too. I drove a Flex once and really liked it.
I totally agree with you!
I have a 2010 flex that has been good to me. I'm a mature car owner so I understand once in a while problems.
I had to replace my ptu once because the dealer put mixed match tires on it and that ruined the ptu. I changed the unit and replace the fluid every 30k now.
If I ever need a timing chain or water pump change I'll have to do it myself or travel to Kansas to let the wizard change it. No way will I give up my flex that easily!
I'll buy that flex from them and do the job. I would love another flex.
@@Mr_Joseph979The Wizzard is in Newton Kansas, not Kentucky.
Had a 2015 F150 3.5 and that engine was a beast I mean a beast.
Never had any issues with the engine or the truck.
I'll do it. I'm in the middle of this job on a 2011 Flex thought now. Sign me up.
Ain't it funny to design an engine that purposely fails? We see it in all manufacturers. We know it's on purpose. Ford and other manufacturers do it to keep dealership mechanics busy. They already can be...
we have a 2018 and LOVE it! the water pump is always the boogy man, but 3 grand is average for the repair. Just keep the oil, trans fluid and coolant fresh and no worries. stay away from turbo awd. throwing away cars just because of total value is just dumb, 4 grand will just be sales tax on a new car, then you'll loose another 20k in deprecation. It has no rust, fix it and drive it another 10 years. Every year I swap out two gallons of coolant fluid, takes 20 minutes.
If I understand correctly, it's the bearings in the water pump that often go bad, resulting in the leakage. Will changing the coolant help with that? This is an honest question - I have a 2013 Edge with the 3.5, and have changed the coolant every 20K miles
@@PaulOnuska
You have to ask yourself WHY the bearings go bad...
is it from the old never changed coolant corroding the seals and that then leaking and destroying the bearing itself...
or is it that the actual bearing material used just can't take the heat/cold cycles and self destructs as the pump rotates?
In either case the only thing you can do to try to help keep the water pump going is to keeping draining and then refreshing the coolant.....
So far it has worked for you....
Read all the other comments re when the pump went out for those owners...and whether or not they changed to coolant...and at what intervals?
@@JohnSmith-pl2bk Thanks - I know diddly about cars haha, appreciate the response
@@PaulOnuska
Another commenter says the seal just flattens (wears?) out therefore it leaks...he was speaking from experience/doing a few...
@@PaulOnuska it's the seals, there is an oil side seal and coolant side seal, you gotta keep the right pH fluid. old coolant even eats head gaskets in Toyotas. and you gotta use Oem , not some china part store junk
I had to to this about two years ago on my 16 Ford Explorer 3.5L NA. Cost me $1678 OTD at a family owned shop. Owner said it was a chore and that his full time Mechanic spent 10 hours doing it. This was done at 86,000 Miles. Now I am at 107K and have been trouble free since. Once a month I check my coolant level and I do my own oil changes so that helps. This spring I plan on changing out my coolant for the newer yellow Ford coolant that has been noted on some of the forms to help prevent corrosion/ seal issues on the water pump. Note: this was for plugs, gaskets, timing chain set and water pump.
Ya, old guy i know had 1 of those 4k dollar water leaks. He's a retired firefighter. Well, it's so ironic the thing caught on fire a couple of days later, and his insurance paid him...
Sold my 2011 Flex SEL this year with 220k on it because the water pump went and 3 shops quoted around $3400CAD to repair. Bought a 99 Buick Lesabre with 100k mi based on wizards advice, however its needed about $2500CAD in repairs, sway bar end links, brake master cylinder, rotors and pads, spark plugs and wires, valve cover gaskets, tires, and headlight bulbs. Previous owner seemed to only do oil changes, however parts and labour are cheap compared to the flex.
Thank you car wizard for sharing your knowledge. I have been able to diagnose and fix many problems on my old beetle and other older cars by watching your videos.. Most mechanics will not help unless you pay the 100+ diagnostic fees up front. Which I understand. A mechanic can't make money giving free advice, than having the owner fix it himself. So thanks for giving us backyard mechanics information we can use so we try not to tackle problems blindly.
There's a lot of cars where the water pump is in the "center" of the engine within the timing chain/belt area. Honda V-6 and Subaru 2.0/2.5 comes to mind. Yes a GM 3800 or 3500 the water pump sticks onto the side of the engine; but it's a different engine design. Another problem is people assume a big car means there's plenty of room to work on everything; not always true.
the subarus have the space at least to work , remove rad and lots of space ,,,, flex looks like a lot of swearing will happen
12:45 ONLY REPLACE PARTS THAT ARE WORN OUT OR AGED if its working good don't change it new parts can sometimes have defects, quality issues that will create a new wear pattern, increasing wear, its should all be marked and put back exactly the same way to retain its balance and wear pattern/lash its sort of like a line bored equipment you don't want to interchange pieces, the chains have seated/machined together in a sense
We own a 2009 Ford Flex. Bought it new. Change the oil every 5k, and have around 74k miles. In 16 years we’ve only had to change the ABS module besides routine maintenance. Given the mileage and the price of new vehicles today, I’m spending that $4k on this car when the pump goes. But, I’m insisting on all Ford parts when the job is done. I’m not sure it makes a difference, but the 2009 was the first year of the model and it was the last year with the Duratec 3.5 engine. I believe all models after that had the Ecotec engine.
Ecotec is GM I believe you mean Ecoboost. The 2014-2016 Flex had ecoboost options for the limited models. Fantastic vehicles! My grandma used to call it the Refrigerator XD
Another commenter on here said he had the job done by a mechanic that charged $2500 and who dropped the engine out the bottom of the car so it could be worked on easily saving time (and money)....
@daveh5490
17 minutes ago
I have a Taurus with the 3.5. Here's what I've read on forums. 1. Do not do the 10k mile oil change intervals, change every 5k miles, and use full synthetic oil. 2. Change coolant every 30-40k miles, coolant becomes acidic over time and use. When coolant becomes acidic, it impacts the water pump seal. There are plenty of people in the FB Taurus forum who followed this method and have made it to 200k miles or more without changing the pump. I'm at 50k miles right now, so we'll see how long or far I can go until I need this job done.
Ecotech=GM
Ecoboost=Ford
I have a 2010 non-ecoboost non-turbo AWD flex with this engine. When this happens to me, I'll be doing the job myself since I'm the only one I can trust at my price point.
FordTechmakuloko suggested changing using the melling water pump instead of the Fomoko or OEM. I'm going back to his video on this same vehicle to be sure.
Don’t cost 4,000 it’s around 1,500 to 1,800 with oem parts ! Dealership get them done one day ! We just had it done with all new guides , chain tensioners and new gaskets for 1800 dollar.
Not the only car with water pump in a tough place. They might regret getting rid of the car as the cost of a replacement will be more. Another Ford Flex, even if it is good NOW, it might not be later and you are in the same situation again plus you have a used car you don't know the history of. This car has no rust and is clean. If it still suits the needs of the family, fix it, BUT be sure it gets good parts and the person doing the job knows what they are doing. $4000 is a lot for a repair but it is getting to be the norm. A new vehicle is $50,000 now so $4000 doesn't look that bad even taking into account the book value of it. Years ago I did an engine in my car that cost MORE than I paid for the car. You fixed stuff because new was a WHOLE lot more.
@hotpuppy1, in this case I'd be looking at going after whoever performed the service work, either parts/labor are to blame because I've NEVER heard of a water pump going out after just ~4 yrs where the pump itself wasn't defective or the installer was at fault. If it was a choice of paying out of pocket again, it depends on whether the vehicle was worth that or would you be better off selling/trading it in, disclosing the water pump issue and then just buy something else new or used.
@@hotpuppy1 The cost of this job could exceed the value of the car and if they had spent it, it would be $8000 in repairs adjusted for inflation in 4 years. The owner should have sold the vehicle after it’s been repaired 4 years ago. I would just sell it and buy a Toyota Sienna or Highlander. There’s plenty of these older model Toyotas that sell for $20,000 or less and are around the same age as the Ford Flex.
@@atx-cvpi_99 Dude a flex is like 9000$... Who the fuck buys a 20 000$ car after they sell their injured car for 2000$ because it's broken. Debt is for fucking morons. The car wizard is RIDICULOUS on this perticular diagnosis video. It's like he's disconnected from reality.
I had an Edge but I got lucky with the price here in Mexico, it was 750 for that repair at the dealer.
To spend another 4k in this sh3t Is insane
I have 2013 limited with 165,000 and it has the ecoboost. I had owned the car for almost 7 years and I still love it. In 2023 I had to replace the water pump and the kit does come with a new chain and tensioners with the waterpump. Total cost was $2300. Then in September my check engine light came on and as it turns out one of the tensioners failed. The good news was the parts were still under warranty so I have a new waterpump, chain, tensioners, and they replaced the cam phasers. Total cost for this round was $1200. In the 7 years we have driven the car 120,000 miles, drive across the country several times. With all that, I have spent around $6000 not including tires and oil changes. I will still pay to fix it as it’s hard to find a replacement that is easy to get into even the rear and haul and drives comfortably. The only thing I don’t like is I have to replace the tires every 2 years.
We used to own a 2015 Flex With the same engine, and it was a really good vehicle, I really loved it. But in retrospect, I am now glad we got rid of it when we did😂
My 2010 has 240,000 miles and runs like new. Just regular fluid changes. I know of numerous Flex's with 200,000 + miles and some with 300, 000+ miles with zero issues. Just do regular fluid changes. The wizard is a joke on this one.
I have two of these engines. The key is to change red coolant for yellow and then change it once a year. I have seen these pumps go for about 200k with proper maintenance
Who changes coolant once a year? Nobody. Ever.
@barrygoldwasser5449 Yeah, these new coolants have at 7 year lifespan
@@barrygoldwasser5449 the people that really take care of their cars maybe
@@barrygoldwasser5449 to save $4k every 4 years, $80 for annual coolant change sounds like its nothing
Two engines ! Wow, that must have been challenging to install.
I had it on my MKX fail on me on the freeway. I really liked that vehicle too.
My Flex is such an all-around great car. But you would think Ford would have solved the water pump problem years ago for this engine. Maybe Ford doesn't care to improve their engineering.
With lots of these dumb decisions it looks like a packaging problem... Engineers had to design an engine with a small footprint because of some other design.
The water pump issues mostly come with age its almost luck if any given w/p will fail early or go 300k miles. Just like any other waterpump. Usually, the bearings start getting loose and leak coolant. Ford was smart enough to engineer a double seal on the w/p so the coolant can leak outside before it leaks into the oil. Gives you a chance to see a problem before it gets much worse. Though it is sad they couldn't make it external.
@@Alfadragon17 that's how you know engineers were forced into it for other reasons. They put the time into protecting the engine, but were forced to make it internal from some other design.
Its tempting to get one or a MKT. In my situation i can use a large 3 row vehicle, but i need something that doesnt sit high off the ground. Those two seem like the best choices for me and my family.
@@volvo09 absolutely a packaging “solution”. This is how they get the 3.5 to fit in a transverse FWD orientation. Longitudinal engines get an external water pump.
the real sad thing about the design of this engine is the engine as a whole is actually a good design you stay up on your maintenance and it’ll go a long time the water pump location was a poor choice as it is what ends up destroying these engines and it’s not cheap to fix. I personally really love the Ford flex. It would be a vehicle I own. It’s very well built lots of room for the size and it’s available in all wheel drive but that water pump does scare me I have a friend that has one hasn’t had a problem yet. It has been replaced once prior to his ownership. We put UV die in his cooling system to make it easier to see when it does start to leak out the weep hole and drip he has had no problems. Otherwise watch your oil and your coolant people on these vehicles set up a regular check at gas fill ups and you can catch it before it can damage the engine as coolant and water do not mix
My Infiniti has the same internal water pump. But it almost never needs a replacement. Built in Japan.
Now you know why I say that the last good car built in North America was the model "A" Ford ! Tongue in cheek I know, but My two vehicles are a 97 Dodge 3/4 ton 4X4 diesel & a 2003 Buick Park ave with the series two 3800 V6. They will both last me until I die. You have saved many people a lot of money Sir. Always enjoy your videos. Cheers! from the snowy hinterlands of of Alberta , Canada....where men are men & sheep are nervous.
My daily drivers a 1991 Buick Riviera with the series 1 3800.
Our 08 Expedition with the 3 valve 5.4 has over 350,000 miles on the original motor and has never left us on the side of the road. Which is surprising given the 3 valves rocky history
They will actually love you a long time with proper care.
@patriotgarage Very true, it's been the best car we've ever had period. And I would not have a problem getting another one that has been properly maintained of course.
Thanks for all the great input as well as comments, with newer cars $$$$$$$ , i will keep wrenching on my older ones. Plan to change coolant ALOT more often after seeing this on wife's 2014 edge. Videos like this have saved me thousands of $, and time.
I have a 2010 ford edge 3.5 and yes water pump was 19 hours labor it now has 220k still runs strong
Of course it's worth doing even if it's more than the car is worth. I'm not going to go spend 45,000 to 60000 on a new explorer. Especially when it's the same engine that's going to have the same problem. That Ford flex is clean. Fix it and drive it for another 5 years.
I agree. $4000 today wont get you anything even half that clean. Shitty situation but I’d pay it and cross my fingers for another 4-5 years of good use out of it.
Plus, the job even with all the timing components usually doesn't cost that much.
Ford Planned Obsolescence at work here, back in the 1980's it was Head Gaskets on their 3.8 V-6's that would Fail @80 K miles. The fix was a Fel - Pro Head Gasket that did not fail !
The Flex is not really a planned obsolescence car considering they often last 300K plus miles. This is a stupid design and anti-DIY, but if you have to drop a couple grand every 150-200K miles in an otherwise reliable car, you're doing better than almost anything you could buy today.
Those HG issues in the 80s (and 90s) weren't planned obsolescence either, it was just an issue of them going to aluminum heads on an iron block to meet EPA requirements and they didn't design the gasket well enough to handle the uneven expansion/contraction of the two kinds of metals. I had a 1990 Thunderbird SC and it blew the HGs at 64K miles but they weren't too bad to fix and would last forever if you studded them. I have an 03 F150 Harley with the 5.4 SC engine and it's still on the original HG going on 22 years old and 250K+ miles with about 100HP in mods to it. They figured it out.
Now today we're talking planned obsolescence, but that's the case with them all. The electronics will become obsolete and the plastic intakes/cooling parts will all get brittle and fail and it will cost more than the value to fix. The EPA is hyper focused on tailpipe emissions, but fails to consider the junk that will end up in the landfill and the carbon produced replacing things every 8-10 years that should last decades.
@@mikelemoine4267 I laugh every time I see one at the Pick n Pull yard with the Engine Taken Apart and the parts are in the back Cargo Area. I have seen this with every Flex that shows up !
@@lilibethdoherty295 I guess they get it apart and can't figure out how to put it back together LOL! My Nephew had the transmission go on his old Silverado and asked about getting one from the pick a part. I told him to find a wrecked one as it means it ran when it was last driven. The nice looking ones usually have major mechanical issues🙂
@@mikelemoine4267 I do like the seats in the Ford Flex they are like Captains Chairs.
@@lilibethdoherty295 Yeah remnants of the old luxo-barge seats. Soft and cushy, maybe a little too cushy, but fairly comfortable.
I replaced mine on my 2013 non-turbos by myself for about $800. It took a weekend. About 12 hours in all. Several good RUclips videos.
This is a common issue anymore. Manufacturers are designing vehicles to look pretty, and service takes a back seat. This has been going on for years now. We are all paying the price for buying pretty cars.
4k to fix a nice 2013 car that you haven't had to make payments on in years? Worth fixing. Cars aren't free once they're paid off. 4k is a little high based on what other commenters have stated.
They already did it once. Would you put 8 grand into a car that’s worth the same amount?
It is high compared to the $1700 to $2400 I've heard quoted to do this job. I've been tracking this issue as I have a 2010 flex with 173k miles.
I'll have to do it myself to be sure it was done and not put stop leak without actually changing the pump like what may have happened in the wizard's customer's case.
@@jacobyo99 They're being ripped off on the repair price. I would put some JB Weld on the weep hole and drive it til it died.
@@billfly2186that won’t work. Because of the design, if the inner seal fails, which it will, the coolant will leak into the oil pan and mix with the engine oil. You’ll get that chocolate milkshake.
My brother's got one, about the same vintage. It's been relatively trouble free, but, the issues that have cropped up have all been big-ticket items. Transmission, transfer case, differentials, etc.
This issue also affects the 3.7. Same engine but a larger bore. Besides the water pump design these things can be reliable. I've seen several fleet vehicles with the 3.7 clock 250K-300K miles such as MKTs
I love the looks of the Ford Flex ,the body lines are sharp looking
I haven't watched the video yet but I bet it is the waterpump.
Yep, see a late 2010’s ford product and it likely has an eco boost or a N/A v6 and needs a water pump.
@THEEVERYTHINGTHINGCHANNEL Alot of the Ecoboost engines also have issued where the block cracks and coolant starts to leak into to cylinders. Absolutely horrible engines.
@jundialhaqiqa9907
That was a known issue on 2017-2019 four cylinder (1.5l, 1.6l, 2.0l) models only. As mentioned in this video, it’s the internal water pump that is an issue on the longitudinal v6’s. And, as the video also shows, it’s not just the ecoboost versions of those engines either.
I usually agree with the Wizard. I have had that 3.5L in over 10 explorers and flexes and have had zero issues. All of them well over 200k miles and I know some of them are still on the road. With everything being 4 cy turbos and junk now, sometimes it's best to acknowledge that old naturally asparted it's were glory, Wizard that 3.5L v6 is hardly not available anymore, due to turbos 2.3, 2.7 and 3.7 turbos, junk....
Same experience here, the wizard is way off on this one.
@@lesliewoinarowicz7018 IF the water pump fails, it's ridiculously expensive. Mine is eight years old. Low miles. Routine maintenance. Tire and battery replacement, due to age. Runs great. Fingers crossed.
I've got a 2011 Flex with 230K miles. Original engine, water pump, and transmission. My kids are driving it to school, and my fingers are crossed that the water pump holds out until they're in their next cars.
I have 240000 on my 2010 Flex with absolutely zero engine and transmission problems. Just regular maintenance.It runs like a tank.
Same here. About 205,000. Hoping to get a couple years and 20,000 miles out of it. Going to the junkyard when it starts leaking!
I'm guessing no one told them to drain and fill the radiator every year, which is absolutely necessary for any vehicle with the transverse Ford 3.5L V6. (The truck versions of this engine have an external water pump.) It's old acidic coolant that kills the seals in these pumps, and replacing 1-2 gallons of coolant mix annually is a whole lot cheaper and easier than the alternative.
Why would you just drain the radiator? You flush the entire cooling capacity if acids break the seal
@@waterloo123100 Nothing wrong with flushing, although it requires special equipment.
The more video`s like this I watch, the more I love my `07 Stang. Did the water pump at 180 000kms, $100 for a pump and a couple of hours of work.
A substantial part of the expense in engine maintenance emerged in the 1970s, when Overhead Cams became a selling point. Few engines spun fast enough to benefit from them nevertheless they were eventually applied to all, even Diesels 🤪 Today, the overwhelming majority of drivers would enjoy similar performance and economy from a pushrod engine with a gear-driven camshaft and no belts, chains, guides or tensioners to cause heavy expense or catastrophic failure.
Perfect comment!
I replaced an internal water pump on a 2007 Edge @ 150k. It totally seized the engine and milkshake oil. Was able to replace the pump and timing chain and it lived. Hardest part is removing the power steering pump bolts to get the timing cover off. Very little room reinstall the timing cover but it can be done...
I had a Ford Edge did replace chains and water pump all in car, it was a 2012. I will never buy any car with a water pump so are to get to. A few other thing I've learned. No cars with CVT, Bad water pump location and Turbos. I'll probably end up with a turbo in something unfortunately.. Keep up the good work!
I've had three Toyotas all with a CVT. Not a hiccup from any of them in hundreds of thousands of miles of driving. There are good CVT transmissions and bad ones. Choose wisely grasshopper.
Surprisingly, the CVT in my Dodge Caliber was rock steady. Of course, it was from the period when Daimler owned Chrysler and actually improved things. Now the CVT in the Saturn VUE was junk. Luckily I sold it before it died.
You are 100% right to avoid any vehicle with turbo, cvt, or internal water pump. (Car Wizard showed some German engine that even had internal thermostat!) Good idea to also avoid direct injection, sunroof, and auto stop/start.
Incomprehensible rambling
They are lucky they don’t have an AWD or 4WD version. The PTU’s fail around 80-100k miles. They only hold a 1/2 qt of lube and it’s surrounded by the engine, transmission and cat, so that PTU and fluid gets cooked! I did my fluid at 70k and it was black like mud. A lot of the early ones didn’t even have drain plugs. Drilled and tapped one. I now change it once a year or every 12k miles.
Told my X wife for several years she needed to dump her Taurus for that same reason. She ignored me and finally got the leak. To fix that and new plugs and wires was 6k.
Take DVOM . Ground well. Remove radiator cap. Insert positive INTO COOLANT. Take millivolt reading.
Turn key on. Record reading. Start engine, record reading.
Sometimes it will read very high while running. Drain coolant, refill with factory coolant using DISTILLED water. Drain block if possible.
Install additional negative grounds if possible.
Recheck three reading sets.
65 fastback 2+2 289 and 67 non stock 302 mexican engines super easy to remove/replace the water pumps - modern cars sheesh !
Many of us have faced the question you raise. This pump replacement will cost what a used identical car will cost, so not worth fixing. Often I have chosen to do the expensive repair, because I like the car and a used one with an original pump that does not leak will likely leak soon. So my expensive repair for the same price does buy me reliability and familiarity with the condition of the car.
The 4K quote is almost all labor. Also the average price to PAY to have WP done should be 2500 max. I did both my MKS 3.5 and 3.7 WP's and timing parts for $500 each, I bought both used and did both WP's before even driving the cars with all OEM parts. The 3.7 had 165K on her and the 3.5 had 125K on her, The 3.7 WP was alittle loose and the 3.5 WP was tight as new,
ya, he is throwing the kitchen sink at it. new chains, guides, tensioners probably phasers. I understand the "do it all or nothing" I did one sway bar link for a customer and the other failed 4 months later. the complaining was unheard of even though we TOLD them the other would likely fail in the near future.
2007 Ford Edge great condition. We had the Motorcraft water pump, valve gaskets, spark plugs, timing chain, chain guide, tensioner, oil change, coolant change. Had it done because I needed the vehicle and the value was a bit more than the job. We got quotes from $2.5k-5k.
My sister had a 2013 flex and she put over 190k miles before she traded it in for a new car. She never had issues with the flex
Mine's 2016. Bought new. Low miles. Routine maintenance. Tires and battery replaced, due to age. Runs great. Fingers crossed, because I enjoy driving it.
Yup. My hobby suv right now is a V10 Diesel Touareg. 18 hours to remove the engive and put turbo's on it. If they fail I'll redo everything. Daily is a rusted out 97 F150 with the bullet proof 4.6L. Just had the front end rebuilt for next to nothing.
You could get that done in an afternoon in Tijuana, they would probably give you lunch and drinks while you wait .
There's a chance you might not see the car ever again if it's on a really sketchy area
@kclefthanded427 bit of a bigot , aren't ya !
@@kclefthanded427 That's the case anywhere nowadays!
That sounds like a great deal. Tacos and getting your car fixed!
Glad to see another useful yt from the Wizard that could help normal folks avoid bad vehicles. I like hearing about the Caddy but this is more helpful.
Chances are this Flex will be sold or traded eventually and even if the owner is truthful about the water pump issue it will probably end up with a used car dealer who will not be honest about it. The troubles will just be kicked down the road to another unfortunate buyer. Caveat Emptor (let the buyer beware) is all too true when shopping for used cars.
Yes always best to look up a used vehicle on the net to find their problems ! saved us from buying a 2024 nissan Rogue with 3cyl turbo with their Eng and trans problems.
My partner bought a used 2008 Lincoln MKZ 3.5 AWD from a private seller and it only lasted 4 months, cause that dang water pump went and it overheated the engine. He had to scrap the car. My Saturn's 2.2 Ecotec also has a chain/water pump design, but it does stick out the back of the engine and bolts on. However, you have to get a special tool to hold the chain when removing the pump.
A new car is even more. Most are around $1,000 per month. With four months of payments you could have a car good for the next four years.
The Ford Fusion and the Lincoln MKZ is engine out. Unless it’s an F150, Mustang, or Transit van, you shouldn’t buy any Ford product a with a 3.5 or 3.7. The water pumps are external on RWD applications. You could reuse the timing chains but I would not recommend doing that especially on the 3.5 EcoBoost since all first generation 3.5 EcoBoost is well known for timing chain issues. Even the 4 cylinder EcoBoost options in the Edge, Explorer, and Taurus have major issues too. All the twin scroll EcoBoost 2.0 engines prior to 2020 had defective engine blocks with coolant intrusion and that also applies to the 1.5, 1.6, and some 2.3 EcoBoost engines as well.
Good post. Our 2012 3.7L V6 water pump (Mustang) began leaking/weeping
Are they also wet belted? 😊
@@ChrisPatrick-q6k No they are not. The 3.5 V6 and Ecoboost variant use timing chains.
For laugh: owned Ford Orion 1.8 Zetec 1th Generation.. also coolant leak internaly, temp rises up under load very fast🙈
Thats not true in regards to the Ecoboost 2.0. Thats 2017 and up engine blocks except for the Edge, which was the first Ford to get the new design. Ecoboost motors before that had a superior, closed deck Mazda based design.
My 2013 explorer with 3.5 ecoboost needs this done. Im doing this to mine this winter. I look forward to it. Been a while since ive dived into an engine. Shouldnt be too bad. Worst part is engine orientation. Ill rebuild the turbos while im at it.
$4000 for 4 years is $1000 a year...seems worth it to me
I have a 2014 Explorer with the 3.5 N/A. While doing an oil change one day I noticed coolant dripping off of the ac compressor and I knew what that meant. Had the water pump done for $3k. I went with the job because I bought the Explorer outright almost 5 years ago.
Ford should be ashamed for peddling such crap
No, it's not just them, it's the car industry in general that loves to pull such bullshit tricks.
There is a reason why they are losing customers everyday.
@@MichaelOKeefe2009 Engine out for a water pump is a Ford problem not car industry.
There's a reason they decided to quit making anything smaller than an Explorer. Other than the mustang 🙄
@@tinleo333 Not just water pump problems my boy. It's other bullshit tactics car companies do to make sure your out of warranty car is in the dealership so they can scalp every cent out of your bank.
The 2K+ water pump. Quite common. As well as the PTU destruction if it's an AWD unit.
There's a block plug behind the front cat converter. It's hard to get at, but if you can, it's worth it. That way upon water pump replacement, the coolant won't flood the oil pan.
Can you explain further what you mean about the block plug.?
Yup, my 2014 Taurus SHO has this engine. My water pump went out went out but fortunately I provided my own labor ... I think book time is over 10 hours.
I recommend only using OEM parts, especially the waterpump. You don't want to use a cheap aftermarket pump just to have it fail prematurely. Better to replace the whole timing chain system including the cam gear which will probably be a updated version.
As for the tight working room, as you jack up the front of the engine, it will tilt and away from the fender and frame giving lots of working room without dropping the engine cradle...
It is time consuming though...luckily a friend let me use his shop rack...
And how does wizard not know this ? I love him and his channel but he seems oblivious to certain things like this .
@@jeedwards1981yeah, he can't know everything I guess.
@@jeedwards1981he stated he never worked on this type of vehicle, but he should’ve looked at other RUclips videos on how others have done it.
@@zoomanx9661 these engines were in all the edge, flex , Taurus and explorers at one point . Just odd that he doesn’t know about it
@ facts. As much experience as he has, that is strange🤔
Had a 2014 Explorer with 3.5 and ran it 130,000 miles with zero issues but traded it in on a Toyota 3.5 with external water pump so I can sleep at night !!!!
How does car wizard not know about this ? These are great engines with that one expensive repair as a caveat.
Nah its a bad engine in a bad vehicle
I paid 1500 for my water pump repair in my ford Taurus. It lasted 100,000 miles
@@The0utmode These things will last 300K easily if maintained and aside from an expensive water pump job in that timeframe, they will likely need little else.
@@mikelemoine4267 Ford figured out how to dumb down a timing chain so much that it lasts as long as a timing belt and costs more to service. planed obsolescence at it's finest!
@@The0utmode The timing chains don't fail on them but since you have to remove the cover to change the pump most shops just do chains to refresh the engine. There are quite a few engines designed this way from several manufacturers. One notable one is the Chrysler 2.7V6, but those usually blew up long before the timing chain or water pump failed....
Was actually thinking of buying a Flex recently. I was already aware of the water pump issue, but I love the styling and interior room that these cars have. However, the more I look, the more it seems to be a pricey trade-off. This video is probably a sign that I have to get an f150 or a mustang with an NA V6 instead (since they're RWD with an easy-to-replace water pump).
My mom's elderly neighbor got taken to the cleaners at the Ford dealer for what started as an inspection sticker and a drip in her driveway. They told her the vehicle (Ford Edge)needed tires, brakes, shocks, plugs, filters, etc. etc. After all that work, and before it left the shop they told her she needed a new water pump. I think the invoice exceeded 10K
Stealerships.
@ the car is only driven a thousand miles a year. Tires were over ten years old and the tread still looked new. She typically gets an inspection and an oil change and that’s it. Sad
Absolutely right about the commander... I have 3 boys 8 mos, 3 yr, 6yr.... Those little boys are my world. My wife is a superhero i keep her comfortable as i can... We have 2 99-06 gm trucks hers is a 2002 yukon Denali woth 240k and ol girl does her job everyday no complaints(the yukon of course hunnie)
Such a shame as the box suv is so practical … crazy design. What’s next for Ford … a timing belt that runs in oil instead of chain? Wait that was GM?
No Ford did it first in the 1.0L Ecoboost.. And its a disaster. GM now does it in the 1.2L 3cyl and has a wet belt for the oil pump on the 3.0L inline six diesel.
The dimples on the door are speed lines, like in the comics. Notice how fast the Flex looks like it’s going even on the lift. 😊
My fiancee got screwed with this on her Flex. Sold the car to her dad who got it fixed and is still driving it.
It’s really gonna vary on so many shops for the job. Some can do 2k and some will go up to 7k in my area.
I have the 3.7 V6 which is the same as the 3.5s pretty much mechanically. But my repair for my 3.7 V6 was 2600 due to the outer gasket failed which sucks but caught very early when it happened.
Overall these engines are pretty solid if you take care of them. Keep oil changes on top and change the coolant.
Also the 3.7 duratecs can be found in the police interceptors, some Lincoln’s, 11-14 mustang and some Mazdas
I'm glad that the 3.5 ecoboost I have in my f150 has the external water pump. My mom had a explorer and my sister has a explorer that has that engine and if the water pump goes out in her explorer I'll replace the water pump, timing chains and phasers myself
I just did it myself. Not the easiest job, but not the hardest either. Just be sure to get a Motorcraft pump.
Found On Road Dead for a reason
@bernie472 yea keep dreaming😂
@bernie472 ford has the largest recalls out of gm and dodge lol try again, boy
@@esco819 GM is still junk
I actually considered a Ford Flex several years ago, until I found out about it's JUNK engine. It reminded me of the old International Travelall. That was a VERY reliable vehicle that almost never broke down, and even when/if it did, it was easy to fix. A bad freeze plug (correctly called a "core plug") can be a big job on ANY engine, sometimes requiring engine removal to replace. Even the older 1960s/1970s Ford/GM/Mopar engines, which had excellent designs, had these plugs in locations that simply could not be reached with the engine in the vehicle. Fortunately back in those days, removing an engine was far simpler than it is in "modern" vehicles. 4:55 the timing comp[onents on that engine are an absolute nightmare. No competent engineer would have designed something like that.
I am a recently retired mechanic. No way would it be a good deal for me. First of all, I didn't retire to keep working. Yes I work on my older vintage cars. That is fun. Working on a POS like this is NOT fun. And I can't spread it out over a long period of time. I have no place to keep a vehicle with a partially disassembled engine to keep dirt out of it. Being 65, the time I have left is far too valuable to waste it working on garbage like this.
Is the replacement water pump same/better quality?
What is the average miles when these fail?
What was the mileage when the first pump failed? Mileage now?
Perfect interior, exterior, on 3.5 MKZ, 100k miles, I would repair and continue to drive because I love the car.
I have heard that the replacements tend to last longer. The recommendation is to replace the water pump every 100k miles. I had the pump replaced on my 2007 MKZ about 60k miles ago. Shop around. The job is a lot of hours, so if you can find a lower hourly rate, it will make a big difference. Let's say you end up spending $3k. You are not going to find another good car for $3k, nor are you going to find a similar MKZ with a newer water pump for $3k.
I have a 2010 flex. I'm budgeting for this job in the future as I can't envision replacing this car with anything. I love it that much!
RUclipsr FordTechmakuloko recommended replacing the pump with a melling not an OEM. I'm looking for that video to be sure though.
The generally last about 90000 miles, mines went 100,000 mikes before I had to change it again.
If the chains & guides are absolutely pristine showing zero wear, the is absolutely no reason to throw new ones in there. I understand why you have that "rule" ... there is a thing called discretion. Get the customer to sign off on it - done. It's not like slapping on a new serpentine belt, there can be some real money involved there.
They are cheap and you are in there no need to risk it for 170 dollars.
@@blueblood76 not 170 for every car and 170 bucks can be a BIG deal to quite a few people right now. Not a risk if you have eyes, ears and two brain cells between your ears to make a logical decision.
My 2010 Flex is a fantastic vehicle. Very clean slab like lines that I love. To me as the model years went on it became unnecessarily busy on the outside styling.My only issue is the cd player doesn't work.No coolant issues for me yet touch wood. Would have loved to see what The Wizard was pointing his mirror at but an ad to buy one popped up and stayed on the whole time.
I have a dark blue ink 2010 Flex and love it! I call it
the T. A. R. D. I. S !
This explains why I don't see any of these on the road anymore.
They are becoming scarce around here also. More Crown Vics than Flexes.
@@jimsmalleimb7709 I see plenty on the road daily here in Reno , NV
I see lots of them here near Pittsburgh on the roads.
My 3.5 eco boost has 244k miles still going strong. No noises or oil burning
This engine is in all of our Ford Taurus police cars here. The City Garage doesn't even tackle these; they get sent to the dealer. It costs nearly $2,000.00 for a water pump replacement. $2,000! No thanks. It's another reason that I keep fixing up my older rides as I am fortunate to no live in the Rust Belt.
The 13-19 FPIUs have them too.
$2k isn’t that expensive . Not these days
Gotta love the union job. Shameful they are paying mechanics that can’t even do heavy work like that. I can knock them out in under 5 hours on the Taurus/explorer non turbos
@@mph5896 That RTV is a mess. At least a premade gasket? They really like to torture techs.
@@alb12345672It's a fact. Engineers hate mechanics!
Maybe my family has been lucky, we have owned 3 Taurus cars and 2 Ford Flex crossovers and not experienced water pump issues. If did happen we would have them repaired, new or good used vehicles are too expensive. If this worries you too much, purchase extended vehicle warranty but make sure it covers this repair.
They spent whatever they spent 4 years ago, that's water under the bridge. $4k more and the likelihood that the job will be done 100% right is way cheaper than getting another car. Heck as long as it last one more year its cheaper than getting another car. I have a '14 Taurus with 165k on it that I paid $18k for about 8 years ago and I'm getting ready to do this job in the spring. If I couldn't do it myself, I would be happy to pay the wizard $4k to do it since there are no cars for $4k that will be in better condition than what I already have. No reason that mine and their Flex won't get another 100k miles...
I said the same thing an hour ago and didn't even finish the whole video yet.
If he’s just doing the water pump, that’s not a 4k job, more like 1500-2k
My niece has a Flex. The Flex shares a lot of parts with the Explorer. Sadly because they are not very common, body parts are hard to find at times. This is a problem because she keeps finding walls with her bumpers/front fenders. At least with everything inside being much easier to find, we can keep it running.
Shady shops will just JB weld the weep hole and charge the customer $4k !
ya, won't last long. because then the coolant goes in the oil.
Nah run a hose from the weep hole to the coolant reservoir cheap fix lol.
This must be really hard for you David. I know you get a lot of satisfaction in helping your customers. The complication of new vehicles is just expensive to work on compared to somewhat older vehicles.